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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-18

---Logopened Wed Jun 18 00:00:32 2008
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04:05<ln>http://gizmodo.com/5017416/microsoft-mistakes-browser-war-for-browser-party-sends-firefox-a-lovely-cake
04:07<blathijs>lol
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04:14<@peter1138>microsoft is glados?
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04:21<blathijs>glados?
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05:45<@SmatZ>I think it isn't for the first time when MS sends FF a cake
05:46<@SmatZ>http://www.boingboing.net/2006/10/25/msie-sends-a-cake-to.html
05:46<blathijs>No, the article says they did it for FF2 as well
05:46<@SmatZ>for firefox 2 ^^
05:47<@SmatZ>yeah
05:47<@SmatZ>I just woke up
05:47*SmatZ confused
05:47<@SmatZ>:-x
05:52-!-SmoKeyy [Smokeey@91.201.194.47] has joined #openttd
05:52<SmoKeyy>hello
05:52<SmoKeyy>wow a lot of people playing this game
05:53<SmoKeyy>can somebody help me out, i'm trying to play online but it says that my game is out of date
05:53<SmoKeyy>that i have another version than the servers
05:53<SmoKeyy>my openttd.exe version is0.4.7.0
05:54<SmoKeyy>the most recent on the website
05:54<SmoKeyy>what do i do ?
05:54<@SmatZ>download 0.6.1 from www.openttd.org
05:56<SmoKeyy>oh
05:56<SmoKeyy>from version
05:56<SmoKeyy>LOL
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05:56<SmoKeyy>i read to version 4.8.0
05:57<SmoKeyy>4.7*
05:57<SmoKeyy>thanks SmatZ
05:57<@SmatZ>you a re welcome
05:58<@peter1138>yeah, 0.4.7 is a bit old :)
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06:06<@Rubidium>SmoKeyy: you better use the official website the next time I guess
06:08<Mchl>I've seen at least one another site that claimed to be 'official'
06:14<dih>SmoKeyy: what website was that?
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06:56<Eddi|zuHause2># little boxes, on the hillside
06:56<Eddi|zuHause2># little boxes, made of tickytacky
06:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13563 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_execmode.cpp ai_testmode.cpp ai_transactionmode.cpp):
06:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: added some asserts to ensure sanity of AI*Modes.
06:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Note: it has to be said that currently 'scoping' is broken, and it is possible to cause an assert. But it is better to have an assert, than to build stuff for real in TestMode ;)
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07:03<dih>you have been counted!
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07:54<SmoKeyy>the website was good
07:54<SmoKeyy>i only misread the install
07:54<SmoKeyy>instead of "upgrade from version 4..." i read "to version 4.7"
07:55<SmoKeyy>so, my mistake, human error =)
07:55<SmoKeyy>sorry
07:55<SmoKeyy>1st multiplayer match and owned their asses
07:55<SmoKeyy>im off
07:55<SmoKeyy>cya guys
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08:00<eekee>hi Hendikins
08:00<Hendikins>Evening.
08:05-!-Smoky555 [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has joined #openttd
08:05<Smoky555>hi all :)
08:06<Mchl>hello S555
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08:09<Smoky555>i have a question, who makes nightly builds (on nightly.openttd.org)? or who make script for this builds?
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>the script is in svn
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>under /compilefarm
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08:10<Eddi|zuHause>or somethnig
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08:10<Smoky555>hmmm....
08:12<Mchl>under /extra/compilefarm
08:12<Smoky555>thks :)
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08:13<Mchl>you're setting up your own farm Smoky555?
08:14*Smoky555 going to snv checkout and reading README file :)
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08:15<Smoky555>Mchl: yes, i want make something like nigthly-bulds for our Rusian Community PatchPack ...
08:15<Mchl>I see
08:15<Mchl>good idea
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could instead just ask for an svn branch and a compile time ;)
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>it was done for MiniIN
08:16<@peter1138>once was enough :p
08:17<Smoky555>:)
08:17<@Rubidium>SmoKeyy: for making nightly builds the compilefarm scripts aren't important
08:18<@peter1138>what do we have them for then? heh
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08:19<@Rubidium>s/SmoKeyy/Smoky555/
08:19<@Rubidium>you need the compile environments for the different targets
08:19<@Rubidium>which is a gazillion times harder to get than scripting it so it happens automatically
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>a 4 letter common prefix is insane :p
08:21<@Rubidium>try getting a working cross-compile environment for OSX for example
08:22<Smoky555>Rubidium: ok, i'll try
08:23<@Rubidium>was more sarcastically meant
08:23<@Rubidium>without an OSX machine it's almost impossible to get the required stuff to make a cross-compile environment for OSX
08:26<eekee>should be able to get an older os x machine quite cheap
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08:27<eekee>I have a 2001 ibook running tiger
08:27<@Rubidium>and well... for legal issues we can't give you the environment
08:27<@Rubidium>eekee: but does that support the latest SDKs?
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08:28<ln>what are the "latest SDKs"?
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08:29<Hendikins>2001 iBook? Doesn't that belong in a museum or something? :P
08:29<ln>if it's tiger, then it supports the SDKs required for universal binaries.
08:29<eekee>Rubidium: not sure what version I've got but it's fairly recent
08:29<eekee>Hendikins: it's getting that way, but like any other piece of hardware it has it's uses
08:30<eekee>thanks ln
08:30<@Rubidium>ln: I can't tell, cause I've got no developer access at Apple
08:30<eekee>Smoky555: any apple with a firewire port will run tiger, I believe
08:30<ln>eekee: that is assuming, of course, that you have installed recent developer tools from Apple.
08:30<eekee>of course
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09:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13564 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Codechange: do not use SetPixel in PaletteAnimate, access destination directly instead. Makes palette animation ~40% faster.
09:12<planetmaker>wow. seems like SmatZ is a speed junky :). Good one :)
09:12<@SmatZ>hehe
09:12<eekee>whee
09:12<@SmatZ>thanks
09:12<@SmatZ>but this applies only to 32bpp-animated
09:12<planetmaker>I thank *you* !
09:12<@SmatZ>not to 8bpp...
09:13<@SmatZ>:-)
09:13<planetmaker>hm... maybe I should switch to 32bpp :)
09:13<Kommer>:P
09:13<eekee>It won't help a machine that's slowing down when lots of vehicles have to be drawn, will it?
09:13<@SmatZ>eekee: it won't help
09:13<eekee>ok
09:14<@SmatZ>this is only about palette animation...
09:14<@SmatZ>I have patch ready that makes 32bpp_*::Draw() ~50% faster
09:14<planetmaker>another 50%? wow :)
09:14<@SmatZ>:-)
09:15<ccfreak2k>Say, what IS 50% of 1ms?
09:15<planetmaker>0.6 * 0.5 = 0.3 -> overall gain 70%? :)
09:15<eekee>ccfreak2k: 0.5ms or 500 micro-seconds
09:15<@SmatZ>it depends :)
09:15<@SmatZ>how often you need to call that 1ms procedure :-P
09:15<eekee>SmatZ: I love you! erm... ;;;
09:15<@SmatZ>:-D
09:16<planetmaker>he. Windows timing is not better than 1ms.
09:16<@SmatZ>I use TIC() / TOC() functions
09:16<planetmaker>...platnonicly... :)
09:16<@SmatZ>that use rdtsc instructions
09:16<@SmatZ>don't be too ecstatic, there are still many other functions related to drawing
09:17<planetmaker>oh... don't know those :). I just know that without realtime hardware my measurements on windows don't get better than 1ms.
09:17<eekee>k
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09:18<@SmatZ>I just don't want you to be disappointed :)
09:18<eekee>:)\
09:19<eekee>* :)
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09:23<planetmaker>SmatZ: no worries :). The biggest gain probably is still related to path finding.
09:23<planetmaker>(but just a wild guess)
09:24<planetmaker>maybe gain is wrong. But calls * computing time per run used. Doesn't mean there's much to do.
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09:26<Eddi|zuHause>apart from ECS, collision detection is probably the most CPU intensive part, then pathfinder (YAPF)
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>(rail) YAPF has already been heavily optimised for speed
09:26<@peter1138>why not profile instead of guessing?
09:26<@peter1138>-ing
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>i can't, i'm on strike :p
09:27<eekee>lol
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>but really, ECS is insane
09:27<@peter1138>SmatZ improved collision detection massively quite a long time ago
09:28<@SmatZ>wow :-) thanks
09:28<eekee>what is ECS?
09:28<@peter1138>i don't think ECS itself is that slow when a game runs
09:28<@peter1138>it's only on game creation that you notice it
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>it chokes on a freshly generated 2048x2048 map with very low industries (~2000)
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>it gets better once the industries start closing down
09:29<eekee>oh so that's what slows big maps down!
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09:30<eekee>I'm playing 64x64 & 128x12 maps on my Zaurus. Also started a 64x512, but haven't felt like playing it much
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09:30<eekee>I really want a new climate set. I don't ask for much do I? :D
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09:31<planetmaker>what's slowing down is a 1024^2 map with 1000 trains :P
09:31<planetmaker>Otherwise no problems
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>i said freshly generated... no trains
09:31<planetmaker>but of course we all want 2000 trains on the same hardware :)
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>just industries
09:31<eekee>planetmaker: naturally :D
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09:31<@SmatZ>GetSlopeZ takes considerable part of CPU time nowadays
09:31<planetmaker>GetSlopeZ <-- what's that for?
09:32<@SmatZ>planetmaker: get altitude of any "point"
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09:32<@SmatZ>works on sub-tile coords
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09:32<planetmaker>[15:26] <peter1138> why not profile instead of guessing? <-- any place where I can find out how to?
09:32<@SmatZ>16x16 "subcoords" per tile
09:32<eekee>whoa, what's it used for?
09:32<planetmaker>oh. yeah.
09:32<@SmatZ>planetmaker: ./configure --enable-profiling :-P
09:32<planetmaker>:P. That's easy :)
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: make gprof (or something)
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09:33<planetmaker>then even I could doo that.
09:33<@SmatZ>eekee: affecting speed by Z change, drawing, coords update,...
09:33<eekee>ohh speed of course
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09:34<@SmatZ>also acceleration, speed calculations
09:35<@SmatZ>well, not that often, you have flags like VRF_GOINGUP ...
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09:36<Eddi|zuHause>ahh... make run-prof was it...
09:37<@SmatZ>PF uses GetSlopeZ for slope detection and penalties
09:37<@SmatZ>maybe this should be optimised
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09:38<eekee>indeed
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09:56<Eddi|zuHause>http://paste.openttd.org/18559
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>(almost empty map...)
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>(just ECS, and like 5 trams and two trains)
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>like i said, it's hardly playable... it feels like my 386 DX 25 when i maxed out 80 trains
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10:01<eekee>hmm I don't think I've played TTD without ECS on my Z. Had one bit of wierdness where a factory mysteriously got plastic, but I think that cleared up when I upgraded
10:06<eekee>nope, it's still mysteriously getting plastic with no deliveries
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10:15<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: how big is the map? What processor & ram?
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10:16<Eddi|zuHause>something like an athlon 3000+ (running on ~2GHz)
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>ram practically infinite
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>2048x2048
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>very low industries
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>i never understood that AMD naming scheme...
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10:18<Eddi|zuHause>"it runs on 2000MHz, let's call it 3000"
10:18<Gekz>lol.
10:18<Gekz>awesome
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>like the hard disk manufacturers... "it holds 300GB, let's call it 400"
10:18<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: I see. I suppose that must be ECI
10:19<eekee>well AMD said their numbers were 'equivalant' to intel processor speeds. Seems a fair comparison as far I can tell
10:19<@Rubidium>they are actually a scale to some of the first Athlon procs
10:20<@Rubidium>so say the first Athlon proc (theoretically) clocked at 3000 MHz will run as fast as Eddi|zuHause's Athlon whatever 3000 proc
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10:21<Eddi|zuHause>eekee: yes, it suggests that it's ECS because maps run fine without ECS...
10:21<eekee>yeah...
10:22<eekee>needs optimizations
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10:24<Eddi|zuHause>well, it needs a better ECS implementation
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>but MB's implementation probably ships with DNF :p
10:24<eekee>DNF?
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>Duke Nukem Forever
10:25<eekee>rofl!
10:25<@SmatZ>hehe
10:26<eekee>I should try & get on with my lunar set. Slow work.
10:26<eekee>actually, I should probably put it up on the forums for others to pitch in
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>but really, there are so many things about George's ECS that i loathe and despise
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>this is a transport simulation, not an economy simulation
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10:29<ccfreak2k>Hooray, openttd crashed.
10:30<eekee>BOOM
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10:32<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: it's just too easy to ship a billion tones of stuff to one factory. Although actually that's a trackmaking challenge in it's own right... I think I have a save game for my 2050 transport co somewhere on the net
10:34<eekee>no I haven't. I was gettign around 1.5k goods a month from one factory before BO[A]E, 5k after
10:35<planetmaker>you should fivefold that :) Then we can talk about "much" :)
10:35<eekee>ah :D
10:36<eekee>I was just thinking I should do more of that. It would be more fun than playing with sluggish, buggy, ECS, although I do appreciate having different cargos & different cargo chains. Gets old otherwise
10:37<eekee>come to think of it I don't much appreciate the economy side of ECS
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10:51<planetmaker>PBI is nice.
10:52<planetmaker>though I'd like the option to turn off stockpile limits
10:52<Eddi|zuHause><eekee> come to think of it I don't much appreciate the economy side of ECS <- that is exactly what i have been saying :p
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10:57*SmatZ agrees with planetmaker, stockpile limits block megalomanic games like openttdcoop games :-P
10:57<planetmaker>:)
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10:58<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/maybe_busy.png <- like that one?
10:58<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: yeah.. I only just realised I don't. :) Everything else about it I like
10:59<eekee>PBI is nice, yeah, but the stockpiling gets to be a drag
10:59<@SmatZ>Rubidium: probably :)
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11:00<eekee>oh there's one little thing I wish normal industries would do, or rather not do. I wish that e.g. a factory wouldn't come out with a full production of goods from a trainload input until that train has finished unloading
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11:01<@SmatZ>Rubidium: but I think the map is too small, 512x512 with 1000+ trains is minimum :)
11:01<eekee>Rubidium: woo, what a map!
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>indeed, i noticed that, too :p
11:02<eekee>oh 'eck, you guys are beyond me :D
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11:03<@Rubidium>the major problem on my map is the lack of space to build
11:03<@Rubidium>which makes it challenging
11:03<eekee>I have trouble planning actually. Like, as a disability; so my networks tend to have all sorts of fiddly little bodges all over them, and sometimes I fail to realise something is possible
11:04<eekee>I love the challenge of lack of space though
11:05<eekee>I've lately been playing a 128x128 with 3 growing towns and most of the industries clustered around those towns
11:08<@SmatZ>I like no-terraform rule
11:08<@SmatZ>it is very challenging on hilly terrain :)
11:09<eekee>I bet!
11:09<eekee>I have the landscape toolbar permanantly open lol
11:09<@SmatZ>hehe
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11:09<felix101>hello
11:09<eekee>btw ctrl-Z isn't used for anything normally is it?
11:09<eekee>hello
11:10<felix101>can u guys help me with a simple question? ^^
11:10<eekee>dunno yet, the answer may be beyond our intellect ;)
11:10<felix101>yeah ^^
11:11<felix101>well... i want to use the ECS vectors set
11:11*eekee makes a mental note to find out what these vectors things are
11:12<ccfreak2k>The "vectors" in ECS are groups of similar industries.
11:12<felix101>i'd like to know what vehicles i have to use to transport all the stuff like sand, fish and fruits
11:12<Eddi|zuHause><SmatZ> I like no-terraform rule <- there was a grf that heavily increased terraforming costs, bad thing was that it also increased the costs of foundations, which no-terraforming should encourage instead
11:12<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: ah.. yeah...
11:12<ccfreak2k>felix101, the ECS wiki pages specify which vehicle packs are compatible with ECS.
11:12<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: there's a hacki-sh patch which de-couples that...
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i know
11:12<ccfreak2k>There's also a newGRF that adds most of the ECS cargo to the default cars.
11:12<felix101>so do i need a special vehicle pack to use ECS?
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>but like you said... hack... patch...
11:13<planetmaker>and then connects it to the rail build costs.
11:13<felix101>oh
11:13<ccfreak2k>felix101, in short: yes.
11:13<ccfreak2k>You'll need at least one.
11:13<eekee>felix101: I use UKRS & NART. basically they rely on refitting to handle similar types of cargo
11:13<felix101>the ecs wiki is not very helpful there
11:13<ccfreak2k>Otherwise you'll only be able to move like...passengers adn coal.
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>and i have the terraforming toolbar open mainly for the 'D' hotkey
11:13<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: well yeah :)
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11:13<felix101>yeah ^^, that's what i was thinking about all the time
11:13<fjb>Hello
11:13<eekee>hiya
11:13<planetmaker>I also have a patch to disable terraforming beyond changing of two corners of a single tile...
11:13<ccfreak2k>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSSupport
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i tried to use that patch for a while, but it caused a hell of conflicts, because it changes files all over the place
11:15<planetmaker>hm... I should know. But when building the wwottdgd patch the modified slopes patch is always one of the least problematic ones.
11:15<felix101>wow, thx
11:15<planetmaker>...I should know where it hooks...
11:15<@SmatZ>:)
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>i have an idea to balance terraforming: store how often you terraformed into the same direction (up = +1/down = -1), and make the terraforming costs dependent on this number (linear or quadratic)
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>that way flattening an entire map will get almost impossible
11:16<eekee>ahh, yeah
11:16<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you're not alone with that idea. :)
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>while you can still terraform small sections, as long as you do up/down
11:16<eekee>hmm the last game I played with AI, the AI flattened a hill for me, lol
11:17<planetmaker>But costs have to rise exponentially at least.
11:17<planetmaker>Because money very easily is no issue.
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>exponentially is really extreme
11:17<eekee>nah
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>instead make money an issue ;)
11:17<eekee>well.. I dunno
11:17<planetmaker>not really extrem.
11:18<planetmaker>gamma function would be extrem
11:18<planetmaker>(=fractional factorial)
11:18<ccfreak2k>Or make it some fraction of your company value or something.
11:19<planetmaker>ccfreak2k: that doesn't hurt. If I own 5 billion, I don't mind 2.5 billion
11:19-!-mikl [~mikl@81-232-111-34-no16.business.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:19<ccfreak2k>0.99 is a fraction. :)
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>you should be charged an "inefficency overhead" for the amount of vehicles you own
11:20<planetmaker>only, if the fraction increases with the amount of tiles modified. And reaches 100% when modifying 10 tiles or so
11:20<planetmaker>nah, unnecessary complication
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>or "other assets"
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>why complication? it would balance the size of your company
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11:21<Eddi|zuHause>currently, when you run two overpaid coal lines, you get twice the money
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>which means you amass a lot of money
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>which makes money a non-issue
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>but money should be an issue
11:21<planetmaker>which is fine. Even if you lost 5% for running two lines, it wouldn't solve anything.
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>so if a company grows, it should make less money
11:21<ccfreak2k>While we're at it, let's add anti-trust laws. :)
11:22<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: "inneficiency overhead" would be an ecconomy thing. :p
11:22<planetmaker>hehehe ^ :)
11:22<eekee>*economy, or something
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>eekee: yes, but not one you'd have to micromanage aroudn
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>*around
11:22<eekee>wellllll... ok then hehe
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>it's just sit there and eat half of your income (with 100 vehicles)
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>s/s/d
11:23<planetmaker>I don't mind having money as a non-issue. I play it for the fun of building :)
11:23<planetmaker>logarithmic money eater...
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, something like that ;)
11:23<@peter1138>service levels based on staff
11:23<@peter1138>staff cost shed loads
11:24<planetmaker>:)
11:24<@peter1138>reduce staff and your costs drop but service sucks
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>yes, something like that
11:24<@peter1138>optionalized
11:24<planetmaker>as an option to the game...
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>of course, it would be a difficulty option
11:24<planetmaker>He, me thinks someone owns some interesting patch in that direction.
11:25<@peter1138>nope
11:25<@peter1138>well, maybe, but not me
11:26<eekee>we already have running costs...
11:26<eekee>oh nvm
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but they do not scale with company size
11:27<planetmaker>they scale linearily with the amount of vehicles.
11:27<planetmaker>or what do you define as "company size"?
11:27<@SmatZ>you have Property maintenance field in the Finances window
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but that one is (currently) insignificant
11:28<eekee>property maintainance could be implemented better. I found otu the other day that reducing the size of your stations and removing roads and depots makes little or no difference
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i mean it should be non-linear
11:30<planetmaker>which is counter-intuitive: you own one vehicle and pay x for maintenance tools & people
11:30<planetmaker>you own two people and pay 2x+y in maintenance & people while in RL it's the other way around.
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>no, let's view it like this: you have 1 engine, 1 driving crew and 1 maintenance crew
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>you have 2 engines, 2 driving crews and 1 maintenance crew
11:32<planetmaker>exactly ^^
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>you have 10 engines, 10 driving crews and 5 maintenance crews and 2 managers
11:32<planetmaker>:)
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>after a while, the manager portion gets a huge overhead
11:32<planetmaker>you have 100 engines, 110 driving crews, 10 maintenance and 200 managers :P
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>while the driving crews and maintenance crews scale linearly
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>yes, something like that
11:33*eekee hides from all those managers
11:33<planetmaker>eekee: no point. They will find you and manage every second of your life :P
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11:34<eekee>wah ;.;
11:34<eekee>lol
11:34<planetmaker>ok, off for a bit. Got to get some food - or there won't be anything to manage or being managed of myself :)
11:34<eekee>k :)
11:35<planetmaker>cu
11:35<eekee>bai
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11:36<Eddi|zuHause>what i wanted to say: going from 1 engine to 2 engines should double your income, but going from 100 engines to 200 engines should hardly increase your income
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>it would also add a different level of challenge for the coop-style 1000 train maps
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11:42<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: I can't really see that being a really big change. It might mean exceptionally long trains and lower station ratings
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>do you have any idea what lower station ratings do to a coop network?
11:43<eekee>I would imagine a domino effect... ack
11:44<eekee>What's getting me is that it seems more obstructive than challenging. How do you work around it?
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>the challenge is not that it prevents you from building this kind of network, but you don't have an infinite amount of money to work with
11:46<eekee>ohhhhh!
11:46*eekee has no money brain
11:46*eekee has cheap freebie brain <-- that works too
11:56*eekee makes himself a big non-ECS map on his PDA to see what he can work with
11:58<eekee>the trouble with TTD on my PDA is that the screen is something like 260dpi. The text is smaller than the tip of the stylus ^^;
12:01<eekee>it's kinda passable, but I just can't can't calibrate it finely enough
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12:06<ccfreak2k>What resolution?
12:09<eekee>640x480, 93mm diagonal (4")
12:10<@peter1138>93mm? that's massive
12:11<eekee>peter1138: compared with the 14" screens TTD was designed for? I don't thikn so
12:12<@peter1138>oh but wait
12:12<@peter1138>4" is 101mm
12:13<eekee>yeah it's nearer 3 3/4
12:13<@peter1138>same as mine then
12:13<@Rubidium>no peter1138, he didn't mean 93 inch diagonal
12:13<eekee>XD;
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>:p
12:13<@peter1138>Rubidium, of course not, he'd've written 93" if that's what he meant
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>i'd like a 93' diagonal ;)
12:14<eekee>anyway the point is that lines of text are < 1.5mm tall. Playing is okay although the multi-angle track tool is difficult, but configuring requires patience *nod*
12:14<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: wouldn't we all :D
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12:14<Eddi|zuHause>i'm just not sure where to put that one...
12:14<@peter1138>the main problem is there's no proper port
12:14<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but only with super-hi-vision resolution
12:14<@peter1138>so you have to use some stupid gay one made by fucktards
12:15<eekee>proper port? Oh! Not a Linux PDA I take it?
12:15<@peter1138>wince :o
12:15*peter1138 ponders resurrecting his attempts at getting it to work
12:15<+glx>too bad I can't do wince stuff with express
12:15<eekee>lol, my PDA isn't so much a PDA as a pocket unix box, for tinkering with when I'm waiting around. I actually build TTD on it because it's easier
12:16<@Rubidium>oh that reminds me, I accidentally installed the pocketpc sdk crap of MSVC 2009 in virtual box
12:17<+glx>and I only have winCE 5 and win modile 5 emulators
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12:21<planetmaker>hi again
12:21<eekee>wb
12:21<fjb>Why do the bridges always have pillars that block the diagonal rails under it? :(
12:21-!-Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
12:21<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... i can absolutely not isolate the trouble my PC is making suddenly
12:22<Eddi|zuHause2>it ran fine for weeks previously, the temperature is low...
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12:22<@Belugas>hello boys
12:23<Eddi|zuHause2>but it suddenly just freezes
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12:23<fjb>Then it gets too cold.
12:23<Eddi|zuHause2>multiple times per day
12:23<fjb>How old is that PC?
12:24<+glx>mine does that sometimes, the hard drive just stops
12:24<Eddi|zuHause2>not sure... <5years
12:24<eekee>I found I ave to keep the hard drive cool on my ~5 year old PC
12:24<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, i had harddrive stopping issues previously, but they look different
12:25<Eddi|zuHause2>the harddrive makes a certain sound when stopping, and afterwards i can still access other harddrives
12:25<+glx>I have only one harddrive
12:25<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: where do you know it is cool enough? cpu temp sensor?
12:25<Eddi|zuHause2>it does not simply freeze
12:25<Eddi|zuHause2>sensor says 45°C
12:25<planetmaker>maybe it's a broken sensor? :)
12:26<Eddi|zuHause2>it previously sustained temperatures up to 70°C
12:26-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75D44.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:26<Eddi|zuHause2>i opened the case, and put a huge ventilator in front of it
12:26<fjb>Disassemble and then reassemble everything. Usually the contacs get some problems after some years.
12:26<Eddi|zuHause2>the temperature looks nice
12:26<planetmaker>hm.... memory error? disable dims one by one and see how that works
12:27<Eddi|zuHause2>i tried the memory sticks, the problem is always the same
12:27<Eddi|zuHause2>i tried increasing the space between the harddrives for better air flow
12:27<eekee>I only had one drive and still had to leave the side off the case
12:28<planetmaker>test your power supply for current constancy then
12:28<eekee>if you've got a fan on them that wouldn't be it though
12:28<Eddi|zuHause2>i also checked the GPU cooler, because i had trouble with that in the past
12:28<planetmaker>he, my desktop also is missing a side - get's too hot in summer otherwise :)
12:29<eekee>ya I've run most of mine without sides
12:29<+glx>I noticed mine was cooler with the sides
12:30<+glx>(mainly because passive GPU needs a nice airflow)
12:30<planetmaker>hehe :)
12:30<eekee>I kinda miss my XT case mod though. Old IBM XT case modded for a.. K6 iirc, with the ugly plastic front removed to show thick shiny black painted metal with a neat array of holes
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12:31<Eddi|zuHause2>the weirdest thing was: when the freezing started i could not even boot properly, because it would freeze during the start of X
12:31<Eddi|zuHause2>then i booted with runlevel 3
12:31<Eddi|zuHause2>and after i turned off swap, i suddenly could boot
12:31<eekee>that sounds like a hard drive issue again
12:31<Eddi|zuHause2>s/boot/start x/
12:32<planetmaker>hm... rather memory
12:32<Eddi|zuHause2>but i also get freezes while watching TV, which should not use hard drive
12:32<eekee>hmm ya
12:32<Eddi|zuHause2>and i get no freezes while recording tv
12:32<eekee>bus...
12:32<Eddi|zuHause2>it is _something_, but i cannot isolate it
12:33<planetmaker>buy a new pc and replace components piecewise :)
12:33<eekee>indeed
12:33<Eddi|zuHause2>the symptoms are too sporadic and isolated
12:33<planetmaker>maybe some mainboard thingy.
12:33<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't have the money for a new PC, i need a car
12:33<eekee>yeah, I guess mainboard
12:34<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, but i can't just buy a new mainboard which will be compatible with my old components (ram, cpu)
12:35<eekee>how do you scroll the map with only a touchscreen?
12:35-!-TheMask96 [martijn@sirius-r5.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:35<Eddi|zuHause2>use the arrow keys ;)
12:35<planetmaker>I guess the same as with a touchpad?
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12:36<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: no the map not the map, lol. The map window
12:36<planetmaker>oh :)
12:37<planetmaker>Here it's IIRC cmd + move
12:37<planetmaker>move on touchpad that is.
12:38<eekee>yeah that'll work on a Mac. I'm using a linux PDA
12:38<eekee>(with keyboard, of sorts)
12:38<planetmaker>:) That's probably why it works here :)
12:38<eekee>:))
12:42<eekee>btw I bound the console to ctrl-z because there's no key above tab or left of 1. It's not worth submitting the patch is it?
12:42<planetmaker>hm. console is ^for me (left of 1)
12:43<planetmaker>and it has been so as long as I know OpenTTD
12:43<eekee>yeah it's always left of one, but there's nothing there on my pda, so I had to find something else
12:43<eekee>it wouldn't be for general use obviously
12:44<planetmaker>Ah, I see. Well, why not submit a patch?
12:44<planetmaker>at least those dev for other mobile devices might like it.
12:44<eekee>yeah... ok
12:45<eekee>well, I suppose I'd have to find out how to make it an option, or could I leave that to someone else? :)
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12:46<+glx>there's a toggle console in the help menu
12:46<eekee>fiddly :o)
12:47<eekee>I suppose no so much needed as a patch then
12:47<planetmaker>eekee: just make it via #ifdef PDA ... #endif
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12:47<planetmaker>(whatever environment is appropriate)
12:47<eekee>planetmaker: yeah...
12:52<Eddi|zuHause2>or just make all hotkeys configurable :p
12:52<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause2: :P I guess if it's done properly, that's a feature worth for trunk :)
12:54<eekee>oh yeah!
12:54<eekee>that would be much better than a compile-time patch that only fixes one issue on only certan models of PDA
12:55<planetmaker>sure.
12:55<planetmaker>but it's a bit of work :)
12:57<eekee>yeah I'm sure
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12:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13565 /trunk/src/ (4 files):
12:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Change [FS#2077]: when invisibility is set, sprite sequences are now drawn until first non-opaque sprite is found (bit 14 not set)
12:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: This is to balance performance, code complexity and NewGRF requirements
12:59<planetmaker>^svn up here :)
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13:01<planetmaker>hm... how do I activate the 32bpp graphics?
13:01<planetmaker>just load appropriate newgrf?
13:01<@SmatZ>planetmaker: openttd -b 32bpp-optimized or 32bpp-anim
13:01<@SmatZ>ahh
13:02<@SmatZ>yeah, place TARs or PNGs in the data directory
13:02<planetmaker>ok, so I do have to get those first, I guess :)
13:02<@SmatZ>:)
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13:03<planetmaker>they're not part of the openttdcoop grfpack, right?
13:03<@SmatZ>right
13:04<@SmatZ>they are at 32bpp threat at tt-forums...
13:04<@SmatZ>probably :)
13:04<@SmatZ>when you find any nice with transparency, let me know :)
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13:05<+glx>planetmaker: there are no 32bpp grfs
13:06<Wolf01>no? why?
13:06<Wolf01>hello :D
13:06<planetmaker>ok, I'll shop around then in the forums :).
13:06<planetmaker>glx: how do you mean? It certainly cannot be the case to have this feature without any way to use it?
13:07<planetmaker>or you mean newgrf? Like replacing default graphics?
13:08<+glx>32bpp graphics are not newgrfs
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13:08<planetmaker>yeah, thought so. So it's a replacement for the original sprites? Like the OpenGFX things?
13:08<+glx>but you can have a newgrf and a tar providing 32bpp graphics for it
13:08<Wolf01>they are simply .tar packets
13:09<Eddi|zuHause2>you put the .tar next to the .grf
13:09<planetmaker>hm... I guess I haven't understood the concept... :S
13:09<Eddi|zuHause2>or actually it should be possible to put the .grf into the .tar
13:09<+glx>Eddi|zuHause2: yes
13:09<+glx>in the tar you can have the .grf and a sprites/ dir
13:10<Eddi|zuHause2>but .grfs are not capable of holding 32bpp images
13:10<ccfreak2k><SmatZ> they are at 32bpp threat at tt-forums...
13:10<ccfreak2k>Interesting.
13:11*Wolf01 wonders when we'll have direct .nfo reading so you can use tars without grfs, like a decompiled grf
13:11<@peter1138>threat -> thread i'd assume
13:11<@peter1138>Wolf01, er, never?
13:11<ccfreak2k>Or maybe the 16bpp crowd is angry.
13:11<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01: that'd require including grfcodec...
13:11<+glx>thare are no 16bpp
13:12<@peter1138>at all!
13:12<ccfreak2k>Maybe that's why they're angry!
13:12<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe it'd be a good compromise :p
13:13<Eddi|zuHause2>now THAT is what a stopping HD sounds like...
13:13<Eddi|zuHause2>and that does not cause an immediate freeze
13:13<Eddi|zuHause2>i can still access all programs which are in memory
13:13-!-Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
13:14<ccfreak2k>Yep.
13:14<ccfreak2k>You just get access errors when you try to hit the disk.
13:14<DaleStan><Eddi|zuHause2> but .grfs are not capable of holding 32bpp images <-- Incorrect. GRF is a just a container. The container happens to be optimized for small 8bpp images, but any arbitrary data can be placed in the container.
13:14<ccfreak2k>God help you if your swap file/partition is on the disk too.
13:14<Eddi|zuHause2>indeed ;)
13:15<Eddi|zuHause2>but i'll have to reboot now
13:16<ccfreak2k>Good luck. Your operating system will want to flush data to your non-existant disk.
13:17<Eddi|zuHause2>after swapping around my / partition, the only thing that should access that disk should be the torrent app
13:17<Eddi|zuHause2>let's see
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13:20<ccfreak2k>Did www.tt-forums.net suddenly become unreachable by anyone else?
13:21-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
13:22<+glx>works for me
13:23<ccfreak2k>Must've beena hiccup.
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13:29<ccfreak2k>Apparently 81.171.98.112 is on PeerGuardian's P2P list.
13:30<eekee>maybe it was put on by some automated system watching for file uploads & downloads?
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>for the record: shutting down worked alright, up to the point where it wanted to unmount the offending harddrive, which also prevented unmounting the harddrives which contained the used mountpoints
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13:32<@peter1138>magic sysrq required
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>i'll try to completely remove that harddrive from the system, let's see if that helps
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>but it's 120GB of storage space... :(
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>brb
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13:42<dih>tüdeldü
13:42<yorick>dih, please don't stalk me
13:43<dih>are you out of your mind?
13:43-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:43<yorick>not quite, I think
13:43<dih>simply because i joined a channel you are the ONLY member of
13:43<dih>does not mean i am stalking you
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>*mental note* remove fstab entry before rebooting :p
13:43<yorick>then what does it?
13:43<dih>besids, i left in the same minute
13:44<dih>yorick: get a life and grow up
13:44<yorick>then what does it mean? you did /whois yorick and joined the channel you didn't know?
13:45<dih>yorick: what on earth is your issue
13:46<eekee>yorick: you know, it might actually mean he thought "that's a cool channel name, I'm going to go check it out," In which case I THINK that it's you who's being creepy by obsessing over someone else's little decisions
13:47<dih>in all honesty i only wanted to copy past the channels name send my bot in, find out who was there, and remove my bot again
13:47<dih>unfort i double clicked it
13:47<dih>but if you are so obsessed about my possibly stalking you
13:47<dih>i can remove you from every channel i have the rights to do so
13:47<dih>perhaps that helps
13:48<yorick>ok :)
13:48<hylje>maybe /ignore works better
13:48<dih>i was thinking of ban
13:48-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: I'm thinking about leaving it alone]
13:49<dih>much better
13:49<dih>did not even have to do anything!
13:49<dih>Belugas: i just made your day :-P
13:51<dih>q-: evael ot enoemos tog
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>you pressed Alt+Z too often :p
13:51<eekee>"The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music" <-- made me laugh ^^
13:51<dih>who now probably is reading the logs very carefully to see what i say about him! (he's done that before)
13:51<eekee>really?
13:51<dih>yes
13:52<dih>had baned him from a channel and he started reading the logs to see what we say about him, then started pm'ing another guy about what he had said in that channel...
13:52<eekee>ouuuch
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i also remember such incidents here
13:53<dih>sad if you ask me
13:53<eekee>very
13:53<dih>nice thing about some bots is, they have a no-log trigger function :-P
13:53<@Belugas>?
13:53<eekee>^^;
13:53<@Belugas>dih, what?
13:54<TiberiusTeng>ahh ... 32bpp. I've away from openttd code for 3 days .....
13:54<dih>yorick left :-P
13:58<@Belugas>ho...
13:58<@Belugas>good for those who appreciate it
13:58<@Belugas>sad for him, unless it was willingly
13:58*Belugas is hard at work
13:58<@Belugas>sorry for lack of enthusiasm
13:58<ccfreak2k>Maybe it's good for OpenGL too. No need to convert colors.
14:01<TiberiusTeng>it's still making me headache ... I wish to finish it into a 'usable' state, but it's way more difficult than I thought
14:04<TiberiusTeng>and it's not immediately 'helpful' for most people :p
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14:04<ccfreak2k>I'd certainly find it "helpful" if a non-insignificant portion of OpenTTD's CPU time got offloaded to the GU as a result.
14:05<ccfreak2k>GPU.
14:05<TiberiusTeng>rendering isn't the bottleneck actually
14:06<TiberiusTeng>I believe tileloops (for huge maps), vehicle pathfinding are more demanding
14:06<ccfreak2k>It might be when someone decides to run OpenTTD on a 10,000^2 screen.
14:07<eekee>something graphical seems to be a bottleneck on my PDA
14:07<TiberiusTeng>ha
14:07<TiberiusTeng>in debug build OpenGL's faster, but in release build 32bpp-anim is faster ;)
14:08<eekee>128x128 map, ECI, runs just-about ok until I scroll over a town with many trucks & trams or sometimes over a busy station.
14:08<@peter1138>TiberiusTeng, not too surprising :)
14:09<TiberiusTeng>I've almost nailed the bottleneck in OpenGL blitter, but it just can't be easily solved with scalability.
14:09<TiberiusTeng>(the texture switching & batching thing)
14:09<ccfreak2k>Apparently, the "water tanker" vehicle only hauls plastic.
14:10<TiberiusTeng>I'll finish the texture atlas & drawlist, then I'll release it whatever it's faster or not. :p
14:10<eekee>ccfreak2k: you can't refit it?
14:11<TiberiusTeng>peter1138, my 7600GT only handle ~15k state changes under 60fps, which includes draw commands, texture state changes, etc.
14:11<ccfreak2k>eekee, nope. Just lists "30,000 litres of plastic"
14:11<TiberiusTeng>because I'm using independent textures for every sprite, that's really tight for now
14:11<ccfreak2k>There's three or four other tanker cars, though.
14:11<ccfreak2k>I just find it funny that "water tanker" doesn't actually haul water.
14:11<eekee>ccfreak2k: ah, little bug >_>
14:11<eekee>yeah :)
14:11<TiberiusTeng>for each sprite bind two textures, draw a quad
14:12<TiberiusTeng>time is spent in the driver, busy-looping to wait the card finish switching texture :<
14:13<TiberiusTeng>openttd.exe 5% on a core, nvoglnt.dll 60% on another core, really funny
14:13<ccfreak2k>If I had profiling toolz on my Windows box, I'd help you out.
14:13<ccfreak2k>It has ATi hardware.
14:13<ccfreak2k>Also, this laptop has Unichrome.
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14:16<ccfreak2k>Wait.
14:16<TiberiusTeng>sounds great. I'll try to come up with a debugging build maybe this weekend ...
14:16<ccfreak2k>There seems to be more than one "water tanker" in my vehicle list.
14:18<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, which ATI card are you using?
14:18<ccfreak2k>Built-By-ATi Radeon X850 XT PE
14:20<TiberiusTeng>great, it will work really well
14:21<TiberiusTeng>but UniChrome won't, since it don't have fragment shader, you won't get remapped colors, company colors and even color texts :p
14:22<ccfreak2k>My Dell Inspiron laptop has an Intel i915.
14:22<ccfreak2k>Too bad the hard drive is dead. :|
14:24<TiberiusTeng>i915 also works well with fragment shaders.
14:25<TiberiusTeng>ha, I really should rewrite New Graph, middlestop and
14:25<TiberiusTeng>NewGRF GUI, but OpenGL's just more fun to do
14:26<ccfreak2k>Yes, the i900 series supports PS2.0 IIRC.
14:26<ccfreak2k>Too bad the vertext shading is done in CPU. :|
14:26<ccfreak2k>Vertex I mean.
14:27<TiberiusTeng>that's not needed by OTTD ;)
14:27<TiberiusTeng>I just can't stop thinking that if mobile devices have graphics acceleration ...
14:28<TiberiusTeng>... but they use OpenGL ES, an radically different API :Q
14:28<Sacro>hahahaha
14:29<eekee>:J
14:29<Sacro>Swiss TV got the wrong subtitles for the German national anthem
14:29<eekee>woops :)
14:29<ccfreak2k>Looks to me OpenGL ES is to OpenGL as small C is to S.
14:29<ccfreak2k>Rather, small C is to C.
14:30<ccfreak2k>And small C is a pain in the ass.
14:31<ccfreak2k>Throw out every single cool thing about C, save for pointers and arrays, and you get small C.
14:31<TiberiusTeng>IIRC OpenGL ES 2.0 killed fixed function pipeline, and used a more OO API
14:31<TiberiusTeng>but I just checked out the headers, almost the same O_o
14:32<TiberiusTeng>maybe not the problem I should worry for now
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14:35<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: how is your OpenGL patch going? do you have any working version I could try?
14:35<@SmatZ>I am just curious :)
14:36<TiberiusTeng>it's now playable, but slow & without palette-animation
14:36<TiberiusTeng>I wish to refine it further before release a version
14:36<@SmatZ>ok
14:36<TiberiusTeng>don't hurry, I'll eventually put that in tt-forums ;)
14:37<@SmatZ>hehe
14:37<Eddi|zuHause><ccfreak2k> Too bad the hard drive is dead. :| <- i have a cheap harddrive to sell :p
14:37<ccfreak2k>By "palette-animation" I assume you mean the little animations that buildings make.
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14:38<TiberiusTeng>which card/chip are you using? I plan to support only those with fragment shaders, so I can do all those lookups & effects
14:38<ccfreak2k>Eddi|zuHause, is it a working drive and at least 40GB in size?
14:38<TiberiusTeng>no
14:38<TiberiusTeng>runway lights on airports, lighthouses, and the water
14:38<ccfreak2k>The water "animation" is different from buildings?
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>well... it is "working"... but it has a habit of suddenly switching off...
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>it has 120GB
14:39<TiberiusTeng>yes
14:39<ccfreak2k>Eddi|zuHause, how "cheap" is it?
14:39<TiberiusTeng>each state of building 'steps' have independent sprites
14:39<TiberiusTeng>as the rotating radar of airport
14:39<TiberiusTeng>they already working great in OpenGL blitter
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>i have not actually decided that...
14:45<TiberiusTeng>damn, VC9 still uses Plauger STL ...
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15:14<@Belugas>CHOCKY!
15:15<Touqen>POCKY?
15:16-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76C36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:21<@Belugas>Cody
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>Commity!
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>YAPPY!
15:23<@peter1138>#
15:23<@peter1138>(as in, no words)
15:23<@Belugas>:D
15:23<@Belugas>Cody has words ;)
15:24<@peter1138>there is mumbling
15:25<@SmatZ>hehe
15:25<ccfreak2k>Apparently the rubber truck doesn't carry rubber, either.
15:25<ccfreak2k>Only water.
15:25<@Belugas>i never actually stopped to "Listen" to the words :)
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>ccfreak2k: your newgrfs fail
15:26<ccfreak2k>It's not "my" NewGRF.
15:27<@peter1138>it is your selection that 'fails'
15:27<ccfreak2k>Excuse the hell out of me for assuming newgrf authors could figure out that rubber trucks should carry rubber.
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15:28<@Belugas>ccfreak2k: "[15:25] <@peter1138> it is your selection that 'fails'"
15:28<@Belugas>when sets override each other, funny things can happen
15:29<@Belugas>so that is quite likely the reason of your problem
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15:30<TiberiusTeng>how do multiple newgrf engine sets handle engine overriding ? still let them 'overriding' each other ?
15:30-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B74E29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:30<@peter1138>yeah, chocky goes mad at 9:10
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15:31<Eddi|zuHause2>TiberiusTeng: very difficult issue
15:31<TiberiusTeng>I could understand :p
15:32<TiberiusTeng>since the past situation would easily make newgrf authors think they're the "only one" within the game
15:32<Eddi|zuHause2>previously, engine sets just made sure they use all available vehicle slots, so the last one "wins"
15:32<TiberiusTeng>and all those overriding stuff, etc.
15:32<Eddi|zuHause2>then suddenly _someone_ dared to extend the vehicle slots :p
15:33<Eddi|zuHause2>and "break" all newgrf sets :p
15:33<TiberiusTeng>but I once thought that "multiple newgrf engine sets" just isolated all newgrfs into their own 'numbering space'
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15:34<TiberiusTeng>and it won't override/disable existing vehicles ...
15:34<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but it does not forbid interaction of these vehicles
15:34<@peter1138>Belugas, have you seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOJRSpi0GOQ ?
15:34<TiberiusTeng>hmm
15:34-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76C36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:34<Eddi|zuHause2>like you can attach wagons from newgrf A to engines from newgrf B
15:34<TiberiusTeng>understandable, since there's callbacks to determine vehicle compatibilty etc ...
15:35<Eddi|zuHause2>which breaks all sorts of assumptions the newgrf authors made for ShinyNewFeature
15:35<TiberiusTeng>not easy for a 'model railroad' player :p
15:35<TiberiusTeng>just like ... decoration stuff? those new stations are all decorations (oops)
15:36<@peter1138>...
15:36<@peter1138>engine overrides work fine with the 'engine pool'
15:37<@Belugas>peter1138: no, but i'll save the link for futur use (tonight :))
15:37<@Belugas>thanks in advance
15:39<@peter1138>it's 'punk rock' with the video that the speaking part (iggy pop interview) was taken from
15:40-!-Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
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15:42<@Belugas>that was iggy pop??? i was under the impression it was sid vicious or someone like that
15:43<SmoKeyy>i'm a total noob but eager to learn about programming (as soon as i finish with exams at school)
15:43<SpComb>boo, a YAPP desync
15:43<SmoKeyy>in what language is ttd coded ?
15:43<@Bjarni>C++
15:43<@Bjarni>err
15:43<@Bjarni>OpenTTD is coded in C++
15:43<SmoKeyy>and can't the graphics of the game be improved ?
15:44<@Bjarni>TTD is coded in ASM
15:44<SmoKeyy>another graph engine.. ?
15:44<@peter1138>hehe
15:44<@peter1138>improved in what way?
15:44<SmoKeyy>better eye candy
15:44<@peter1138>"better" ?
15:44<SmoKeyy>better resolution
15:44<SmoKeyy>umm
15:44<@Bjarni>the resolution isn't an issue
15:44<@Bjarni>the game works on even big monitors
15:45<SmoKeyy>what about the rail, roads orienting
15:45<SmoKeyy>i bet it's really hard to modify it
15:45<SmoKeyy>into more angles
15:45<SmoKeyy>say 30 45 60 90 ...
15:45<@Bjarni>how would it work with more angles of railroad?
15:46<@Bjarni>I mean how well would it work together with the tiles we have right now?
15:46*Wolf01 is compiling ottd :O
15:46<@Bjarni>Wolf01: you better compile than complain :D
15:46<SmoKeyy>well it would need more tiles to be implemented no? :P
15:46<@Bjarni>...
15:47<Eddi|zuHause2>graphics have pretty much nothing to do with coding
15:47<@Bjarni>which means recoding of everything that has anything to do with tiles
15:47<SmoKeyy>yeah pretty much
15:47<SmoKeyy>heh
15:47<ln>we'll be waiting for SmoKeyy's patch
15:47<SmoKeyy>=))
15:48<@Bjarni>so we are talking about say 50k-100k of lines you should check for compatibility with whatever new system you want to implement
15:48<SmoKeyy>you'll have to wait for me to learn codin'
15:48<@Bjarni>all of 2 weeks?
15:48<SmoKeyy>i'm going to start with the basics of C++ in about 1 month
15:48<@Bjarni>oh
15:48<SmoKeyy>downloaded a ton of books
15:48<@Bjarni>so we will have to wait 2 months then
15:48<hylje>make that 4
15:49<SmoKeyy>Bjarni why are you so mad?
15:49<ccfreak2k>Enjoy your pointer math.
15:49<@Bjarni>o_O
15:49<@Bjarni>mad?
15:49<@Bjarni>great
15:49<SmoKeyy>ccfreak2k i did read a bit through the material, got lost at pointers
15:49<@Bjarni>now I'm a mad scientist
15:49<SmoKeyy>Bjarni mad at me i mean
15:49<@Bjarni>then you can be pinky
15:49<SmoKeyy>angry
15:49<SmoKeyy>frustrated or stressed
15:49<@Bjarni>let's take over the world
15:49<Eddi|zuHause2>eager to take over the world, are we?
15:50<SmoKeyy>i did code a bit for GTA sa-mp in pawno
15:50<@Bjarni>I don't get it. Why would I be mad?
15:50<SmoKeyy>Bjarni not mad, sorry my english isn't that good
15:51<SmoKeyy>i ment stressed
15:51<Eddi|zuHause2>because you are a scientist :p
15:51<Eddi|zuHause2>scientist => mad
15:51<@Bjarni>good point
15:51<Eddi|zuHause2>implication easy enough?
15:51<SmoKeyy>well i'm going to get on a server
15:51<SmoKeyy>my 2nd time xD
15:53<ln>http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3067/2568097109_084412c849_o.jpg
15:53<TiberiusTeng>actually
15:53<@Bjarni>I'm a bit upset about one thing though... I have made a piece of code that contains 0x107F instructions.... the problem is that the tiny chip only have room for 0x0FFF instructions >_<
15:53<Touqen>nice
15:53<Sacro>pope palpatine?
15:53<TiberiusTeng>for me, 8bpp pixel art IS eye candy ;)
15:54<TiberiusTeng>think of the reason that made me left (?) Locomotion
15:54<@peter1138>locomotion is 8bpp ;)
15:54<@Bjarni>anybody here who wants to help me beat up a stupid compiler that makes too big application code? :)
15:55<TiberiusTeng>ahh :p
15:55<Wolf01>ok, compiled ottd, put all the files in the right folder, still don't be able to run it :|
15:55<TiberiusTeng>already a 5-year-old game ... time passed by ...
15:55<TiberiusTeng>Bjarni, which compiler?
15:56<@peter1138>nearly 4 years
15:56<Sacro>what to do for tea
15:56<ccfreak2k>Bjarni, sounds like you need some INLINE ASSEMBLY.
15:56<@peter1138>Sacro: ladies
15:56<@Bjarni><TiberiusTeng> Bjarni, which compiler? <-- some DOS based 8051 compiler.... it's like 10 years old
15:56<TiberiusTeng>ouch
15:57<Eddi|zuHause2>that picture looks awfully fake...
15:57-!-LA [~purple@ip202.cab18.mus.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
15:57<@Bjarni> <ccfreak2k> Bjarni, sounds like you need some INLINE ASSEMBLY. <-- yeah.... if the compiler supported it. I will likely have to write functions in ASM files and then make function calls in the C files
15:57<Wolf01>ok, openttd doesn't like to be scattered around the hard disk
15:57<ccfreak2k>Bjarni, exactly.
15:58<ccfreak2k>Find the complex operations and write them by hand.
15:58-!-LA [~purple@ip202.cab18.mus.starman.ee] has quit []
15:58<@peter1138>Wolf01, depends where you spread it
15:58<Eddi|zuHause2>interestingly enough, my player started "Metallica - Imperial March" when i opened that picture :p
15:58<@Bjarni>that's basically what I did spent most of today doing >_<
15:58<@Bjarni>hence the way I reduced the size by 0x200
15:59<ln>Eddi|zuHause2: do not underestimate the power of the force
15:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13566 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_tilelist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: make AITileList_StationType a bit more friendly, and allow STATION_ANY
16:00<Wolf01>I put the files where I found the ones the debian/ubuntu packet put on my hard disk
16:00<TiberiusTeng>crunching every available bit ... that's why I hate embedded systems! :p
16:01<@Bjarni>I don't have memory problems
16:01<Wolf01>but now with all the files on the same directory all works... but the icon in the application menu is become useless
16:01<@Bjarni>I just have limited space for the application code itself
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16:06<@Bjarni>one thing I really wonder about with this compiler is that I looked though the generated ASM code... and it added "NOP" once in a while.... I really wonder why
16:07<@Belugas>masterkey
16:07<@Belugas>Damned
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16:08<ln>Bjarni: perhaps aligning code to word boundaries for efficiency, or something?
16:09<@Bjarni>on a 8 bit system?
16:11<@Bjarni>I don't see how 4 NOP in a row could be justified as some sort of performance boost
16:11<@Bjarni>I wonder what will happen if I just remove them
16:12-!-TiberiusTeng [~Tiberius@sbt.idv.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:12<@SmatZ>Bjarni: to align branch destinations
16:12<@SmatZ>if it is any advanced processor
16:12<ln>we would need Tron to answer such questions.
16:12<ccfreak2k>It could just be that the compiler was coded in a profoundly stupid way.
16:12<@SmatZ>like, x86 has advantage when loop starts at 16B boundary
16:12<@SmatZ>because it fetches instructions in 16B blocks
16:12<Wolf01>mmmhmhmmhm I don't understand one little thing: why the shortcut works only from the ottd directory?
16:13*Bjarni thinks that ccfreak2k is the one closest to the real answer
16:13<@SmatZ>x86 = newer processors, like 486+
16:13<ccfreak2k>So, you actually mean i486.
16:13<@SmatZ>Bjarni: what processors are ou talking about?
16:14<@SmatZ>ccfreak2k: 80486
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16:14<@peter1138>i8051
16:15<@SmatZ>aha
16:15<@Bjarni><SmatZ> Bjarni: what processors are ou talking about? <-- 8051
16:16<ln>med druesukker / uden farve
16:16<@SmatZ>Bjarni: maybe try -falign-functions=0 -falign-labels=0 -falign-loops=0 -falign-jumps=0
16:16<@SmatZ>if it is a gcc
16:16<ccfreak2k>Uh.
16:16<ccfreak2k>It's not.
16:16<@SmatZ>hmm then ignore me :)
16:16<fjb>Ups, ore train with Cartier livery from the Canset has a maxspeed of 255km/h...
16:17<@Belugas>ln, j'adore quand tu parles cru et cochon comme ca, ca me retourne tout l'interieur
16:17<ccfreak2k>He stated a while back that it's some 10-year-old compiler.
16:17-!-Volley [~worf@84.119.76.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:17<@Bjarni>yeah
16:17<@Bjarni>read back
16:18<@Bjarni>it's DOS based so filenames are restricted to no spaces and max 8 chars
16:18<@Bjarni>(+3 after the .)
16:18<ln>there's no "no spaces" restriction in dos filenames.
16:18<@peter1138>fjb: must be an enginepool bug? :p
16:19<@SmatZ>ccfreak2k: I reseted my system, I have to browse logs to see history :-x
16:19<@Bjarni><ln> there's no "no spaces" restriction in dos filenames. <-- ok then it's a compiler restriction :P
16:19<+glx>fjb: check in ttdpatch
16:19<@Bjarni>and it goes for the path to the files as well
16:20<fjb>peter1138: Ofcourse... :)
16:20<ccfreak2k>IIRC DOS restricts to 8+3.
16:20<fjb>glx: No Windows around. And no working Wine either.
16:21<@peter1138>dosbox? heh
16:21<Wolf01>there's something I can change to be able to scroll a 2048 map without go from one side to the other in 1ms?
16:22<+glx>use scrollto
16:22<@Bjarni>I really loved the compiler today when it decided to add like 0x3500 instructions at the end of my program
16:22<fjb>Ouch, dosbox... Maybe I could find one. But doesn't TTDP need Windows?
16:22<@Rubidium>glx: that's exactly what he doesn't want
16:22<@Rubidium>fjb: nope
16:23<@Rubidium>fjb: works in dosbox
16:23<@Bjarni>mainly consisting of moving a register to Acc
16:23<@Bjarni>and doing the same instruction like 15 times in a row
16:23<@Rubidium>Wolf01: use the arrow keys maybe?
16:23<Wolf01>glx... be serious, I can't use the mouse to scroll by 20 tiles because it scrolls of 200 tiles
16:23<@Rubidium>but it shouldn't scroll that fast
16:23<Wolf01>yes with shift
16:23<Wolf01>but I'm used with mouse
16:23<@Rubidium>ofcourse it's one of those issues that the developers can't reproduce and thus not fix
16:24<Wolf01>maybe there's something on my mouse settings
16:24<@peter1138>Wolf01: zoom out the minimap? oh wait
16:24-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:25<fjb>Hm, dosbox... I will try it.
16:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13567 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/ai/api/ai_tilelist.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: it turns out AIStation::StationType didn't match ::StationType, as it matches (nameless) FACIL_ enum.. which has not the same order as ::StationTYpe.. things can be confusing from time to time :)
16:25-!-Keith [Keith@x078201.lr-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd
16:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13568 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Fix (r13564): Windows build asserts where I wouldn't expect it to
16:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13569 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_station.hpp ai_station.hpp.sq ai_stationlist.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: for some silly reason STATION_ANY was 0x00, instead of 0x1F, greatly increasing the complexity of bitmask-checks, for no clear reason
16:25<Keith>goodday all
16:26<@Bjarni>isn't it a bit late for saying day?
16:26<Keith>depends on where you are
16:26<@Belugas>it's al a matther of perspective, dear Bjarni
16:27<Wolf01>MAYBE this behavior is because I run ubuntu on the virtual machine and the mouse is emulated
16:27<Keith>indeed, indeed!
16:27<@Bjarni>besides it's not an English custom to say something like that and this channel use English only
16:27<@Bjarni>goodday sounds more like Australian
16:27<@peter1138>Wolf01: yes it probably is. in that case it probably does not honour the "keep pointer where it is" code
16:27<Keith>oh dear
16:27<@Bjarni><Keith> depends on where you are <--- I'm thinking about people in my timezone and in your timezone
16:28<@Bjarni>which happens to be the same group of people ;)
16:28<@peter1138>so you move it a bit and it keeps going and going...
16:28<Wolf01>I should try on the real ubuntu pc
16:28<Keith>anyway, it is getting dark outside, so I guess you're right
16:28-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7661E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:29<Wolf01>I can tell you if I spot any difference the next saturday (28th) because I can't use it until that day :D
16:30<Keith>anyway...do any of you know if the NoAI AI competition business is really hard to get into or not?
16:32<@Bjarni>it's not hard to get started looking at it
16:32-!-egladil [~egladil@81-226-238-189-no61.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:32<@Bjarni>and if you think you can code something then it would be even better
16:33<Keith>well I'm not a very experienced coder
16:33<Keith>but I'd love to have a go
16:34<ccfreak2k>Make a neural net.
16:34<@Bjarni>check out the newest svn and start looking
16:34<@Bjarni>get an idea of what the code looks like
16:34-!-egladil [~egladil@81-226-238-189-no61.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
16:34<@Bjarni>and based on that you could end up figuring out something specific you would like to do
16:36<Keith>I downloaded TortoiseSVN and looked on the server that was shown on openttd.org, but I have to admit I'm rather lost as what I should be looking at on there
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>the NoAI API is described on the wiki
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>check out branches/noai
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16:37<Eddi|zuHause>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/AI:Introduction
16:37<Keith>aha, the wiki!
16:38<@Bjarni>:)
16:39<@Bjarni>sometimes the solution is so simple that you skip it and try the hard way
16:39<@Bjarni>reading a wiki is too trivial XD
16:39<svippy>:o
16:39<Keith>well I had looked at the wiki, but somehow managed to overlook the "tutorials" section
16:39<Keith>yeah, and I tend to ignore the trivial solution...
16:40<Keith>thanks for the help nevertheless
16:41<@Bjarni>that's ok
16:41<@Bjarni>we did you a favour and then you owe us one
16:42<Yexo>Keith: if you want more help, join #openttd.noai
16:42<@Bjarni>which means a working diff of something useful ;)
16:42<Yexo>or a nice working ai :P
16:43<Keith>hmm, very quid pro quo
16:43-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
16:43<Keith>sorry, I forgot, English channel, "something for something"
16:43<Wolf01>'night
16:43-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host252-233-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:43<Keith>'night!
16:44<Keith>oh, too late :(
16:44<ccfreak2k>Wouldn't it be smarter for OpenTTD to call your AI main routine every x intervals instead of having the AI function run indefinitely?
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>ccfreak2k: it only runs a few steps during each tick
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>and then gets paused
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>and gets continued in the next tick
16:45<ccfreak2k>What defines a "step"?
16:45<Swallow>a DoCommand afaik
16:45<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: doing any action (DoCommand( or a sleep
16:46<Yexo>but there is a patch that stops ai's every so many squirrel commands, so evena while(1); can't halt the game
16:46<Swallow>^^
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>well, that's a minor detail i have not looked into;)
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the point is, the AI function keeps all local variables alive while it is paused
16:48<Swallow>Question regarding OTTD c++ coding: Is there an easy way to read the displayed name of a station?
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>by the same function that draws it
16:49<Swallow>i looked into it, but couldn't find it
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>station names (like town names) are dynamically calculated
16:49<Swallow>AFAIK its either station->string_id or station->name
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>that probably won't work
16:50<Swallow>string_id requires some GetString() and i guess working with params
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>is there any particular reason why you would want this string anyway?
16:51<Swallow>hmmm
16:51<Swallow>*thinks*
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16:52<ccfreak2k>think();
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>to get a hint about string handling, there is a function while creating towns that checks if the generated town name already exists
16:52<@Belugas>me->goes(DESTINATION_HOME);
16:53<svippy>:O
16:53-!-egladil [~egladil@81-226-238-189-no61.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>me->hates(COMPUTER_FREEZE);
16:53<Swallow>I think I can live without the string, at least for now :)
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>like i said, the string is dynamically calculated
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>it even changes when you change the town name
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>unless you changed the station name manually, then it refers to a custom string
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>which is stored in a pool, i assume
16:55<Swallow>st->name
16:57<@peter1138>wrong
16:57<@peter1138>it can be null
16:57<@peter1138>you need to get it via the string system
16:58<Swallow>st->name is only when custom, right?
16:58<@peter1138>yes
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16:58<Swallow>else st->string_id
16:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13570 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
16:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add [Library CHANGE]: extended pathfinder.road to support tunnels and bridges.
16:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Note: all current AIs using pathfinder.road will need to update their build-routine to support tunnel/bridges (see wiki), or give tunnel/bridge cost max_cost value (which avoids tunnel/bridge usage)
16:59<Swallow>*checks wiki*
17:00<Swallow>well, thanks all for your help
17:01<Swallow>me->shutdown()
17:01<Swallow>bye
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17:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13571 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: define channels in struct Colour in different order on LE and BE machines
17:21<@peter1138>weird
17:21<@peter1138>normally you'd just use a union for that :p
17:21<@SmatZ>peter1138: yeah, but gcc<4 failed to compile that
17:21<@peter1138>...
17:22<@SmatZ>it failed on definition in palette.h
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17:22<+glx>msvc worked
17:22<@peter1138>hm
17:22<@SmatZ>peter1138: http://dev.openttd.org/~smatz/palette2.diff original version
17:22<@peter1138>how silly
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17:50<SmoKeyy>how do i make a coal industry produce more coal ?
17:50<SmoKeyy>will making a big station with a lot of trains waiting to get fully loaded all the time work ?
17:50<Prof_Frink>Provide a better than 70% rating and hope.
17:51<SmoKeyy>^^
17:51<SmoKeyy>oki
17:51<SmoKeyy>i will try
17:51<SmoKeyy>rating 82 % Excellent
17:52<Prof_Frink>Now wait and hope.
17:52<Prof_Frink>The better-than-70% just means it's more likely to increase than decrease.
17:54<SmoKeyy>heh
17:54<SmoKeyy>it's production went down from 99 tons to 88
17:54<SmoKeyy>:(
17:54-!-Keith [Keith@x078201.lr-s.tudelft.nl] has quit []
17:54<@SmatZ>hehe
17:56<@Bjarni>:)
17:56<@Bjarni>even though the odds are for one thing you can still get an unlikely output
17:56<SmoKeyy>ok it went back to 99 now
17:56<@Bjarni>like say I kick a random person in here there is around 1% risk of kicking myself
17:56<@Bjarni>which would be bad
17:57<Prof_Frink>But funny
17:57<@Bjarni>but it might happen
17:57<@SmatZ>:-P
17:57<@SmatZ>@seen eQualizer
17:57<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: eQualizer was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 1 day, 3 hours, 19 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <eQualizer> Eddi|zuHause3: Thanks, resetengines did help.
17:57<@SmatZ>@seen dlunch
17:57<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: I have not seen dlunch.
17:57<@SmatZ>hmm
17:57<@SmatZ>idlers...
17:57<@SmatZ>@seen divoafx
17:57<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: I have not seen divoafx.
17:57<@SmatZ>not saying a word
17:57<@SmatZ>not even hello
17:58<divoafx>Hello
17:58<SmoKeyy>hello
17:58<@Bjarni>Hello
17:58<@SmatZ>Hello
17:58*Prof_Frink is tempted to kick himself from the channel
17:58<SmoKeyy>copy cat !
17:58<@Bjarni>SmoKeyy: you failed
17:58<@SmatZ>divoafx: now you broke it
17:58<Prof_Frink>!password
17:58-!-Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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17:58<@SmatZ>lol
17:58<@Bjarni>it should be H not h
17:58<SmoKeyy>ok now it's back to 88 tons
17:58<divoafx>Hehe
17:58<Prof_Frink>:D
17:58<SmoKeyy>i have 4 trains on it loading full
17:58<SmoKeyy>not working =(
17:58<@SmatZ>like I am idling at #gcc and #llvm , never said a word
17:59<SmoKeyy>this sucks :(
17:59<@Bjarni>I only idle in #openttd.notice
17:59<divoafx>Idling make you feel like you are supporting somehow
18:00<@SmatZ>yeah
18:00-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:00<Sacro>when i reply people make fun of me :(
18:00<@SmatZ>thanks you for your idling divoafx
18:00<divoafx>And I love this game
18:00<@SmatZ>:)
18:00<divoafx>No problem :)
18:00*Bjarni would prefer better help than idling
18:00<@Bjarni>like diff files or donations
18:00<@SmatZ>hehe
18:01<+glx>Prof_Frink: you know it works only when I'm here
18:01*Sacro donates a dirty plate
18:01<divoafx>I'll set up a server some day, bjarni :P
18:01<@Bjarni>where is my profit in that?
18:02<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Right after step 3, "???".
18:02<divoafx>I'll name it after you :)
18:02<Sacro>The Late Bjarni Bjarnison Memorial Server?
18:02<@SmatZ>:)
18:03<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Bjarni "Bjarni" Bjarnison.
18:03<divoafx>1: Set up server called Bjarni, 2: ???, 3: Profit!
18:03<+glx>hehe
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18:04<@SmatZ>:_)
18:04<@SmatZ>:^)
18:04<divoafx>Now if you'll excuse me I've got some idling to do
18:04<@SmatZ>bye divoafx
18:04<@SmatZ>enjoy
18:04<divoafx>Ca in 6 months
18:05<@SmatZ>:)
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18:09<ccfreak2k>Hmm.
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18:09<ccfreak2k>The MIDI music sounds different than it used to.
18:10<@SmatZ>depends on your synthetizer
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>that is because your synthesizer has different instruments
18:10<ccfreak2k>Well, there's no particular reason why it SHOULD sound different, because it's on the same box in the same operating system with the same drivers.
18:11<ccfreak2k>So I would assume the patches would be the same...
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18:15<SmoKeyy>YES +9 tons !
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>SmoKeyy: you can't expect it to jump to 1000 tonnes overnight
18:21<@Bjarni>ccfreak2k: you mean that the midi sounds different from what it used to compared to an earlier version of OpenTTD?
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>it's a very slow process
18:25<ccfreak2k>Bjarni, I can't say that it's because of OpenTTD (it could be...I don't know_.
18:27-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BCD7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:27<dih>@banlist
18:28<dih>@ban list
18:29<ccfreak2k>There seems to be some redundancy in the ban list.
18:30<planetmaker>:P
18:30<@SmatZ>it calls for optimisations
18:30<ccfreak2k>Just in case he, you know, gets around the wildcard on his address.
18:30*SmatZ holds himself from optimising the banlist...
18:31<planetmaker>*.* ;)
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18:32<@SmatZ>:-P
18:32<dih>i was checking, because i recalled that kiddo from openttdcoop being banned here too
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19:21<grumbel>Does anybody know if the graphics project still needs art for the face portraits in game? i.e. these -> http://web.tiscali.it/squakenet/screen/transport_tycoon_deluxe.jpg
19:22<grumbel>I might be interested to help if somebody could guide me around and tell me what format, resolution, etc. is needed
19:29<grumbel>some of the stuff I have done previously: http://grumbel.blogspot.com/2008/04/doing-some-art-for-vegastrike.html
19:30<+glx>you should check on the forum
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20:08<SpComb>is there any way to remove radio transmitters in a multiplayer game?
20:09<@SmatZ>SpComb: no...
20:09<@SmatZ>edit in singleplayer... (with dynamite cheat)
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20:29<@Belugas>forums users...
20:29-!-[alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
20:29<@Belugas>they will never learn :(
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20:35<Pikka>they will sometimes, Belugas...
20:35<Pikka>but not often :P
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20:45<@Belugas>unfortunately, Pikka
20:46<@Belugas>problem is not with oldtimers (well.most of them)
20:46<@Belugas>but newtimers have this tendancy to be like "i know it all" that stinks quite a lot
20:47<Pikka>only some of them
20:48<Pikka>and obviously if newtimers do that and oldtimers don't, then they *do* learn. ;)
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21:02<Georgio>zomg
21:02<Georgio>hi all
21:03<Georgio>i got my first name back finally
21:03<Georgio>i need help
21:03<Georgio>halp
21:04-!-Semicolon7645 [Collin@ubppp247-89.dialin.buffalo.edu] has joined #openttd
21:05<Georgio>heelp
21:05<Georgio>how do i set my scenario to where it never ends?
21:06<Georgio>...
21:08<Pikka>in what game, Georgio?
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21:10<Semicolon7645>you could change the ending year to far in the future?
21:13<Semicolon7645>do you think that would work?
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21:18<ben_goodger>Georgio: you could also use the year cheat ingame to keep the year at 2008 or something
21:19<Pikka>the game never ends anyway, does it?
21:19<@SmatZ>:)
21:19<ben_goodger>true.
21:19<Pikka>the score screen comes up in 2050 but you can still keep playing after that
21:20<SpComb>rather annoying playing some game for a while, looking at a massive city that's just begging for some intra-city transport action, and realizing that you don't have any trams :(
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21:29<eekee>SpComb: ottd seems to be ok when adding grfs in-game, now
21:29<@SmatZ>eekee: don't do that...
21:29<+glx>adding should be safer than removing, but it's not recommended
21:29<eekee>SmatZ: I already have
21:30<@SmatZ>glx is absolutely right :)
21:30<eekee>well, you can always go back to a save game before the addition
21:31<@SmatZ>adding GRF with vehicles is safer than adding GRF with industries or town buildings (furthermore with engine pool...)
21:31<eekee>What have I done recently... added a ship GRF... not sure if I removed one but if I did it was a vehicle one with no vehicles
21:31<eekee>mmm I had engine pool on
21:31<+glx>should be ok
21:32<+glx>anyway town is safer than industries ;)
21:32<eekee>mmm I haven't dared try removing an ECS industries set. :)
21:32<+glx>unless it contains a new cargo
21:32<+glx>don't
21:32<@SmatZ>or when buildings have different dimensions
21:32<eekee>can you make new cargos without stockpiling?
21:33<@SmatZ>sure
21:33<SpComb>does loading a savegame load exactly the set of NewGRFs that were loaded when that savegame was made?
21:33<@SmatZ>depends what GRF you use
21:33<SpComb>well, not the newgrf-static ones
21:34<@SmatZ>SpComb: yeah, if that GRFs are available.. (and you did the note about static GRFs)
21:34<@SmatZ>it will try to load GRF with same GRF ID but different checksum
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21:34<@SmatZ>but you will be warned that "compatible GRF was loaded"
21:34<+glx>'compatible' loading is disabled for network games
21:35<@Belugas>eekee, stockpilling is not a feature of all newindustries grf. It's just a mechanism created by a few ones
21:35<@Belugas>totally internal
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21:35<eekee>ok :)
21:35<+glx>as a compatible grf may be totally incompatible indeed
21:35<SpComb>hmm, weird, because after I saved a multiplayer game and loaded it in singleplayer, the roads changed
21:35<Georgio>im back
21:35<+glx>that's the date
21:35-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
21:35<Georgio>its open TTD
21:35<@SmatZ>SpComb: or when you try to load old savegame (old OTTD < 0.5, TTDP < 2.0 ? ) without information about GRFs used
21:36<+glx>it's an action A in an Action 7 checking the date
21:36<SpComb>all with the same version (YAPPv8)
21:36<Georgio>now how do i set the game to unlimited in OTTD
21:36<+glx>TTRS3 I guess
21:36<Pikka>it is unlimited, Georgio
21:36<Georgio>it says ends at 2051
21:36<@SmatZ>there is a bug somewhere that disabled GRF won't restore crossings GRF (I think, haven't verified yet)
21:37<+glx>you can't change the 'end'
21:37<Georgio>in configure patches
21:37<Pikka>that's when the scoreboard comes up, but you can still keep playing
21:37<+glx>but you can play after the 'end'
21:37<@SmatZ>Georgio: it won't end, you will have the score saved in the high score list :-P
21:37<eekee>Georgio: you get a news flash, and then after that you can carry right on playing
21:37<Georgio>ohh
21:37<Georgio>tyvvvm
21:37<Georgio>i had it paused for 4 hrs 0_0
21:37<@SmatZ>:-D
21:38<Georgio>im at Feb 2032 wi9th 400mil
21:38<eekee>Oh I leave it running on my PDA. paused, suspended, whatever lol
21:38<Georgio>every city has a interC airport lol
21:38<eekee>cool lol
21:38<Georgio>and 8 aircraft to each airport
21:39<eekee>oh that's what I should do on my new big map game
21:39<Georgio>thats like 50+airplanes
21:39<Georgio>my income is like 40mil a year from planes only
21:39-!-Hendikins is now known as Hendikins|SRA412
21:39<Georgio>its leet
21:39<SpComb>more fun to have a train station with about 22 passenger trains going to it
21:39<SpComb>as part of a properly organized passenger network
21:39<Georgio>yes i hav those too
21:39<eekee>I found the limit of jet aircraft for an IC airport to be around 20-24. Might vary with type of plane, I dunno
21:40<SpComb>complemented by trams for inner-city traffic and busses for the towns small enough to not have train stations
21:40<Georgio>one town has 12 7 track stations
21:40<eekee>fun ^_^
21:40<Georgio>the town (i named it) is LEETvil
21:40<eekee>lol
21:40<Georgio>lol
21:40<SpComb>half of my passenger network is single-track
21:40<Georgio>200k pop
21:41<Georgio>i can take screen shot lol
21:41<Georgio>its haxer
21:41<eekee>sure
21:41<Georgio>i started trans at 1929
21:41<Hendikins|SRA412>Georgio: Want to see a diagram of a complex real life station? :P
21:41-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:41<Georgio>lol
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21:42<eekee>Hendikins|SRA412: is that the one you showed me earlier>
21:42<eekee>?
21:42<Georgio>i had MS train sim for like 1year and 2m but it got boring -.-
21:42<Hendikins|SRA412>Georgio: http://www.hendikins.id.au/scraps/TLS/TLS-inner.png - the sections marked SDY and CEN are the one station. Not even remotely to scale.
21:42<Hendikins|SRA412>eekee: Yes
21:42<eekee>ok
21:42<Georgio>i wish i could add my Mp3s to a playlist to play in OTTD
21:43<eekee>that would be fun. I just have a media player running as well though
21:44<Georgio>yea
21:44<Georgio>but it takes your procssesser(i cant spell)
21:44<@Belugas>why?
21:44<@Belugas>i think that a standalone player is much better than an included one
21:45<Georgio>a music player APP + OTTD = CPU time taken
21:45<Georgio>procssesses slower
21:45<@Belugas>ottd playing music while =playing trins is not???
21:45<Georgio>how do i spell that????
21:45<@Belugas>come on///
21:45<eekee>nah, music playing doesn't take much from... well most CPUs made within the last 5 years or more I would imagine
21:46<Georgio>procsess
21:46<Georgio>=(
21:46<eekee>'course, I'm using Linux here, and a 10 year old music playing app ;)
21:46<Georgio>i cant spell :(
21:47<eekee>don't worry abut that much
21:47<@Belugas>ottd needs a lot of processing on its own. ask a internal player and you just ripped that much processing. with a dual core stuff, ottd will run on his onw, and the plauer will run on another thread
21:47<@Belugas>no problem, all is cool
21:47<Georgio>i do >:Z
21:47<eekee>maybe it's a ram size thing?
21:47<Georgio>i feel like a dunce...
21:47<Georgio>i r t shrt bus
21:48<Hendikins|SRA412>Georgio: So, how about that for a real layout? (Even if it is purely diagrammatic) :P
21:48<Georgio>yes i built stations like that on MS train sim
21:48<eekee>awww, don' worry. We're just geeks, when something don't sound right we say it aint right, but you shouldn't take us too seriously
21:49<Georgio>but only more complicated cause there were ecssessive speed requirements for it -.-
21:49<Georgio>lol
21:49<Georgio>they enter the station at 270km/h lol
21:50<Georgio>thier maglevs by the way
21:50<Georgio>add onn trains
21:50<eekee>I love mag-levs. I know some don't but I do
21:51<Georgio>4,000,000 kilo-watt magnet to help stopping the multi tonn train lol
21:52<Georgio>270-0 in 3 sec
21:52<Georgio>0_0
21:52<eekee>ohhhhh passenger jam!
21:52<Georgio>lol
21:52<Georgio>brain-in-eye syndrome
21:53<Georgio>zomg
21:53<Georgio>the best idea:
21:53<Georgio>intigrate mIRC into OTTD =O
21:53<@Belugas>:(
21:53<Georgio>lol
21:53<eekee>noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
21:53<Georgio>dunce idea X(
21:54<Georgio>lol
21:54<eekee>I blame Microsoft
21:54<Georgio>lol
21:54<eekee>:D
21:54*Sacro chuckles at dutch
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21:55<Georgio>i called micrsoft once and a arabian guy awnsered the tele
21:55<Georgio>now what does that imply??
21:56<@Belugas>immigration is happening in the US too?
21:56<Georgio>omg
21:56<Georgio>mexicans
21:56<Georgio>hell yes
21:56<Georgio>10000000000000000 ppl a day immigrate to US
21:56<Georgio>lol
21:56<@Belugas>arabian - mexicans? not exactly the same area
21:56<Georgio>i know
21:56<Sacro>Georgio: i doubt that
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21:57<Sacro>that's more than the world population
21:57<Georgio>we get arabians as store clerks... -.-
21:57-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
21:57<@Belugas>i understand. i would not want an american as store clerk either...
21:57<Georgio>i would get on MP but then id lose my gagillion dollar buissness
21:58<Georgio>note i plan on saving
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21:58<Georgio>OH NOES!!!!!!!!!!
21:59*Georgio quickly pauses game.
21:59<Georgio>15 of my planes crashed at 3 different airports X'(
21:59<Georgio>zomg
22:00<Georgio>too many planes at the airports 0_0
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22:00<eekee>huh? I've never seen that before
22:01<Georgio>i have 62 planes going out of like 20 airports
22:02<Georgio>they were all heading in when one crashed they piled up lol
22:02<Georgio>whoops!
22:03<Georgio>i guess i never counted right -.-
22:03<Georgio>62 planes going around 13 airports
22:03<Georgio>63* (i built one)
22:04<Georgio>anyone in MP?
22:05<@Belugas>not me
22:05<@Belugas>i'm in CT
22:05<Georgio>ahh! i have too much money! ideas what to spend on??
22:06<Georgio>i have like 500mil
22:06<Georgio>im goin to MP...
22:07<Georgio>i can talk in mIRC and play OTTD cause i have it windowed, good idea?
22:07<@Belugas>brilliant
22:07<Georgio>i lagg on fullscreen when i try to minimize it...
22:08<Georgio>i want a unlimited time MP server...
22:08<Georgio>no
22:09<Georgio>like 1950-2500
22:09<Georgio>law!
22:09*eekee hates full screen. Well, it's ok when you want total maximum graphics performance
22:09<Sacro>Belugas: mass plonking?
22:10<eekee>what does MP do when it gets to the end of 2050? pop up the report like single player?
22:10<Georgio>idk
22:10<Georgio>i think it auto restarts
22:10<@Belugas>hio... i get it... right Sacro :D
22:11<Georgio>im going to the most popular Mega's europe map
22:15<Georgio>woot my buissness is up and running!
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23:17<SmoKeyy>the game is much better in multiplayer
23:18<SmoKeyy>though when buying company share it would be nice to see profit from it
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23:24<Georgio>yea i get lagg since i live in US
23:25<Georgio>how do you put timestamps on text in mIRC?
23:27<Phantasm>Somewhere in the options.
23:27<Georgio>i found it
23:28<Georgio>woot
23:28<Georgio>does anyone want to join my 2mil buissness and help me with it on MP?
23:29<Georgio>im on megas europe map and ill give you pass to my company if your interested
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 19 00:00:11 2008