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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-19

---Logopened Thu Jun 19 00:00:12 2008
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01:09<TiberiusTeng>planetmaker, I've checked the NewGRF GUI part, and newgrf_gui.cpp hasn't changed from r13375 ...
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01:10<TiberiusTeng>which platform are you testing? can you make a debug build and pinpoint where it crashes?
01:11<TiberiusTeng>or send me your entire GRF set along with openttd.cfg, so I can try reproducing the situation ...
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01:29<Eddi|zuHause2>may i request banning HerzogDeXtEr*? he never says anything, but every night he spams the channel with rejoins
01:30<Eddi|zuHause2>[*]buster is not much better
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03:50<Pikka>hooray. another "autodownload grfs" thread
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04:08<planetmaker>[07:11] <TiberiusTeng> or send me your entire GRF set along with openttd.cfg, so I can try reproducing the situation ...
04:09<planetmaker>^ I was testing on MacOS. I was testing it with the CS road set, nothing else
04:09<TiberiusTeng>with bare trunk, only applied NewGRF GUI patch ?
04:10<planetmaker>that's what puzzled me, too. I've to say, I didn't test it recently before that
04:10<TiberiusTeng>I don't have MacOS machines around, but I'll try CS road set later
04:10<TiberiusTeng>but I think MacOS have some debugging facility too? Xcode?
04:10<planetmaker>My feeling was, that it happend with any, but admittedly, didn't try.
04:10<planetmaker>XCode is what I use, yes
04:10<TiberiusTeng>Make a debug build and see where it traps?
04:11<planetmaker>But I'll have access only this night at home. But I'll try
04:11<planetmaker>--enable-debug, right?
04:11<TiberiusTeng>could you send me a copy of the CS road set grf you used? I don't want grf version differences screw it up
04:11<TiberiusTeng>oops, I'm not sure ... I haven't use makefile to build OTTD for a long time ... >using Visual Studio project files
04:12<planetmaker>Also that I'll have to do tonight to check in detail. But I think it was version 0.2
04:12<planetmaker>nvm the compile options then :)
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04:14<TiberiusTeng>wait, cs roads 2.0 ?
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04:15<planetmaker> <-- yeah, I think so.
04:16<planetmaker>all those abbreviations :) combined with a memory like a sieve doesn't work well.
04:16<TiberiusTeng>it release 3 versions for win, dos, ottd
04:16<TiberiusTeng>I guess you're using the OTTD one
04:17<planetmaker>I'd assume. As said, I can pm you the grf tonight.
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04:18<planetmaker>tonight means in 12 hours or so :)
04:20<planetmaker>But I really appreciate that you want to have a look at it :)
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04:36<TiberiusTeng>I have no problem using CS roads set 2.0 :Q
04:36<planetmaker>with latest trunk?
04:36<TiberiusTeng>my timezone is +6 related to yours :p hope I'm awake after 12 hours
04:37<planetmaker>^ he. I noticed. I actually wouldn't bet on you being awake still then - would be pretty late (or rather early)
04:37<planetmaker>currently I'm on UT + 2
04:37<planetmaker>and will be home approx. 23h
04:37<planetmaker>--> 21h UT
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04:38<Gekz>I live.
04:38<planetmaker>^ good to know...
04:39<hylje>or not
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04:40<planetmaker>I like fuzzy logic.
04:40<planetmaker>and quantum computing
04:41<Gekz>das ist hier die Frage*
04:45<Vikthor>Now I wonder why do you cite Shakespeare in german
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05:11-!-mode/#openttd [+b HerzogDeXt*!*@*] by Rubidium
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05:16<Smoky555>i think, that svn/extra/compile_farm missing some files, using in nightly builds scripts... is it true?
05:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13572 /trunk/src/ (players.cpp win32.cpp): -Fix: MSVC x64 complains.
05:16<@Rubidium>Smoky555: missing what exactly?
05:19<Smoky555>Rubidium: for examle - "pack"script and main script, that reading "rules" file and making variables for "compile", "configure", "install" and "pack" scripts ...
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05:21<@Rubidium>the pack script is not needed anymore
05:21<@Rubidium>packing is now donw by the makefile
05:21<@Rubidium>install isn't needed anymore either
05:22<@Rubidium>the parameters for configure depend very highly on the compilers you've got installed and where you've installed them
05:22<@Rubidium>so that won't match your situation
05:23<@Rubidium>and I don't think the compile part needs parameters (simply 'make')
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05:24<@Rubidium>and I suspect that the script that makes the configure parameters contains a vast array of hacks just in order to make the different compilers compile OTTD
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05:27<@peter1138>heh, it still mentions the utf8 branch
05:29<Smoky555>i understand all of this. i see that this branch is very old, and nobody update it ... all works is on the working server, and this is enough for simple users :( but not for me :(
05:31<@Rubidium>Smoky555, as I said before: the scripts needed for a compile farm are dead easy; even someone with a 5 minute crash course in bash can write them.
05:32<@Rubidium>the important thing for a compile farm is getting the cross-platform compilers working, i.e. making OSX, MorphOS, Windows, FreeBSD and such binaries on a Unix machine (or whatever way you want to do it).
05:32<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13573 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: Use smallvec class functions instead of class members
05:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13574 /trunk/src/misc/smallvec.h: -Doc: Document the small vector template class
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06:12<ln>hello, poland
06:13<Mchl>hello... uh... finland?
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06:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13575 /trunk/ (9 files in 5 dirs):
06:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Move small vector to core since it fits better in there
06:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: convert smallvector from struct to class
06:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13576 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf.cpp):
06:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: disable static NewGRFs when non-static NewGRFs query them in the
06:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: context of network games. This makes it impossible for static NewGRFs to disable
06:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: non-static NewGRFs and 'bad' things happening because the non-static NewGRF
06:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: doesn't know about the static NewGRF.
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06:29<@Rubidium>san remo
06:29<Noldo>google earth
06:29<@Rubidium>nah, marseille is the other direction
06:30<Vikthor>and monaco is not a city
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06:31<@Rubidium>Monaco is the captital of the Principality of Monaco
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06:35<Vikthor>arrgh, it is, I always thought that the city is Monte Carlo, but I have been wrong
06:36<@Rubidium>Monte Carlo is the most populated quartier of Monaco
06:38<Vikthor>Yes, I see. (I have consulted Wikipedia now)
06:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13577 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Change: group core files in source.list together
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07:45<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13578 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Merge: documentation updates from the 0.6 branch.
07:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13579 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp:
07:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2088]: process the order coming after a conditional order, otherwise
07:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: the vehicle would already leaving the station before it knows where the next
07:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: destination is, making it leave in the wrong way. However, after processing as
07:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: many conditional orders as there are in the order list it will stop processing
07:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: them in order to not create an infinite loop.
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07:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13580 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp:
07:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: allow multiple version of a single library to exist. If you name
07:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: your directory, say, pathfinder/road.1, and put Road Pathfinder version 1 in it,
07:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: you can load version 1 and version 2. The system ignores everything after the
07:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: '.' (dot), and accepts it if the versions differ.
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08:53<SmoKeyy>this sucks
08:53<SmoKeyy>worked my ass off 5 hours on a server
08:53<SmoKeyy>now i can't connect to it
08:53<SmoKeyy>either the game freezes or i get disconnected
08:54<SpComb>what version?
08:54<+glx>what map size
08:54<+glx>how many vehicles?
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09:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13581 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2040]: RVs continueing onto next DT station when they are build adjacent to them.
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09:36<SmoKeyy>europe big map
09:37<SmoKeyy>about 200-300 vehicles
09:37<dih>what's your hardware?
09:37<dih>and the servers specs too please
09:37<SmoKeyy>2x 2.4 AMD 5000+
09:38<SmoKeyy>2 GB RAM
09:38<SmoKeyy>i have no idea about the server
09:38<+glx>2x doesn't matter, neither does GPU
09:39<SmoKeyy>ok trying to connect and there are no companies on the server
09:40<SmoKeyy>so the server is fkd up
09:40<SmoKeyy>oh my god
09:40<SmoKeyy>4 hours worth of nothing
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09:42<SmoKeyy>what happens to the company when the player logs out of the server ?
09:42<SmoKeyy>does it go on?
09:43<+glx>after some time depending on server settings
09:43<@peter1138>unless company auto clean is on
09:43<@peter1138>or it goes backrupt
09:43<SmoKeyy>i played on this server
09:43<SmoKeyy>and i couldnt buy more than 75% off a company
09:44<SmoKeyy>why leave it at 75% and not turn it off for good...
09:44<SmoKeyy>or was it a setting to buy it later i wonder...
09:44<@peter1138>you can't buy out companies on multiplayer games
09:44<SmoKeyy>no ? :|
09:44<@peter1138>but you can buy shares to sell later for profit
09:45<SmoKeyy>too bad you can't buy them
09:45<SmoKeyy>that would have been awsome
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09:49<SmoKeyy>ok this fucking sucks
09:49<SmoKeyy>4 hours out the window, server not back up
09:49<SmoKeyy>im attempting to try again
09:49<SmoKeyy>so hope the next one doesn't happen the same
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09:52<SmoKeyy>going on that marten #2 server
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10:03<Kommer>Belugas: no problem :)
10:07<Kommer>You'll hear it if we find something
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10:20<SmoKeyy>all servers are way off start date
10:20<Mchl>find one that is close to final date :P
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10:22<SmoKeyy>i saw servers with 2250
10:22<SmoKeyy>so i don't know what is close to end date...
10:24<Mchl>2050 by default
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10:25<+glx>2051 indeed
10:25<Mchl>but I think 2050 is the final playable year
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10:36<dih>end date != server_restart_date
10:38<Ammler>Mchl: that is around 65000 ;-)
10:40<Mchl>yeah... I forgot how this stuff actually works :P
10:44<Mchl>I seldom get to 2000 anyway...
10:44<Mchl>I get bored much earlier and restart
10:44*dih seldom gets to playing at all
10:44<Mchl>so do I recently...
10:47<@Belugas>so do i for quite a long time now
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10:49<dih>Belugas: you get to play with ya kid
10:49<dih>that's way cooler ;-)
10:51<planetmaker>he indeed. He should be old enough to start :)
10:52<@Belugas>he likes to see trains indeed
10:52<@Belugas>"Make a red one daddy"
10:52<@Belugas>ad then a blue, and a green and...
10:53<Mchl>does he know how checkout source from SVN yet?
10:53<@Belugas>so, usually, i end up coloring the diesel one color, the steam another one and but them together
10:53<@Belugas>at 4?
10:53<@Belugas>no way :)
10:53<Mchl>the sooner, the better :P
10:57<dih>yeah - let him grow up with the coding style
10:57<dih>openttd will be his home!
10:57<planetmaker>hell, you shouldn't spoil a child from too early start :)
10:57<@Belugas>i think i'll let him enjoy the pleasures of youth for a while before throwing him on the lions pitt :)
11:00<Mchl>come on, what could be possibly more appealing to a young boy, than a chance to write some object oriented code?
11:02<dih>you can teach him with his breakfast serial
11:02<dih>just start saying here's a container object - named bowl
11:03<dih>this bowl can hold x amout of serial objects
11:05<@Belugas>oh... coding, i don't mind... it's the users that i'm afraid of ;)
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11:07<dih>Belugas: i second that :-)
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11:32<Georgio>how do i make the fast forward go faster
11:32<Georgio>on openTTD
11:32<@SmatZ>disable Full animation
11:33<@SmatZ>buy faster CPU
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11:35<Georgio>is there cheats for this lol?
11:35<Georgio>since theres a console and all...
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's called overclocking
11:37<Doorslammer>Makes time go faster
11:37<Georgio>no i mean change the value of you money to like 999999999999999 or somethin
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>"fast forward" means "go as fast as your computer can handle"
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>so the only way to make it faster is to make your computer faster
11:37<Georgio>with console
11:37<@Rubidium>Georgio: save your savegame, then type 'stopall' in the in-game console
11:37<@Rubidium>will make the game run faster in fast forward
11:38<Georgio>i want more money in the game
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there is a cheat for that
11:38<Georgio>5years and i only have 1mil >:(
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>no, i won't tell you
11:38<Georgio>its ok ill look it up
11:38<Georgio>google my friend
11:39<Doorslammer>Google your friend? :P
11:40<Mchl>tickle me Elmo
11:40<Georgio>google is everybody's friend
11:40<Doorslammer>Im tickling no one's elmo thank you very much :O
11:40<Georgio>cant you add on vehicles and different stations on OTTD?
11:41<Doorslammer>Google his friend
11:41<Georgio>i want a super airport 0_0
11:41<Georgio>has klike 8 runways lol
11:41<Mchl>can't add airports at the moment
11:41<Georgio>all on one square...
11:41<Mchl>there's someone working on it though
11:42<Georgio>10 runways, 20 loading places, and 5 hangars on one hax square
11:42<Georgio>so you can build like 90
11:43<Doorslammer>Good grief
11:43<Doorslammer>We should build Dubai airport for OTTD, unfortunately that would need about 512x512
11:44<Georgio>lol and thier 10pounds each and invented in 1492
11:44<Georgio>the map i am on in SP has 2046x2046 i think
11:44<Georgio>biggest O_O
11:46<Georgio>or a airplane that golds 25,000pepole and 4,000,000 tons of any other cargo and goes 10,000,000km/h lol
11:46<Georgio>its a teleporting plane
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11:46<Georgio>lol you got dcd
11:47<Eddi|zuHause2>no, i have unexplainable system freezes
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11:47<Doorslammer>Why on earth do you want a teleporting plane?
11:47<Doorslammer>If anything, it should be a police phonebox
11:48<Georgio>i gotta take a screenshot of this lol
11:49<Eddi|zuHause2>i tried disabling every single nonvital component... nothing helps
11:49<Doorslammer>You are easily amused I must admit
11:49<Georgio>3 airports 1 sqare from each other
11:49<Georgio>idk why it let me
11:49<Eddi|zuHause2>you can place independent airports next to each other by pressing ctrl
11:50<Eddi|zuHause2>but you cannot combine them
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11:51<Georgio>i just built 8 planes in one hangar and told them all to go O_O
11:51<Eddi|zuHause2>you are brilliant!
11:51<Georgio>6 not 8
11:51<Eddi|zuHause2>you screwed up!!
11:52<Georgio>thier gonna all crash like on my other game
11:52<Eddi|zuHause2>big airplanes crash when you try to land them on small airports
11:52<Georgio>and speed factor is 1/1 instead of 1/4
11:52<Eddi|zuHause2>speed factor has nothing to do with this
11:52<Doorslammer>Slow game day is it Georgio?
11:53<Georgio>im just bored
11:53<Georgio>it gost 15,000 to build a one square canal?
11:53<Doorslammer>I see
11:54<Doorslammer>Thomas Telford had a lot to answer for with canals
11:54<Eddi|zuHause2>,%2017.%20Okt%201981.png <- try something like this
11:55<@Bjarni>you should increase your English skills and usage to something that's worthy of OpenTTD
11:55<eekee>why the blazes can't you build artificial lakes to dock ships at higher than sea level? Is it just that no-one thought of it
11:55<Doorslammer>I reckon it would just look odd personally
11:56<eekee>well lakes aren't all at sea level IRL
11:56<Georgio>lol i ceate artifical lakes to make ship profits from
11:56<Eddi|zuHause2>Georgio: you should be asking "it doesn't cost 50 million to build an airport"?
11:56<eekee>it would look a bit odd though
11:56<Eddi|zuHause2>eekee: you can do that, load a rivers grf and use the scenario editor
11:57<Georgio>like the B-747 irl costs 5,000,000
11:57<Georgio>planes cost 90,000 for same thing in her
11:57<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: I meant in-game. If you can make a canal there should be nothing stopping you making it a little bit wider and adding a loading dock
11:58<Doorslammer>That must be why Kalitta Air's ones break in half on failing to take off
11:58<Eddi|zuHause2>that is possible for a very long time, eekee
11:58*eekee gives Eddi|zuHause2 a puzzled look, goes off to try it
11:59<Georgio>like the locks in this game are simply water ramps not the actual lifting lock
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11:59<Georgio>hi lo
11:59<Eddi|zuHause2>Georgio: that has several reasons
12:00<Georgio>i have 1,500,000 and its 1993 and i started in 1985
12:00<Eddi|zuHause2>for one: it was easier to implement this way [considering it has been a very early TTDPatch feature]
12:00<eekee>not bad. I acheived growth like that a couple of times
12:01<Eddi|zuHause2>second: it is possible for several ships to enter the lock going opposite ways
12:01<Georgio>in my game i started in 1929 and by 2000 i had 500,000,000 and 40mil a year income
12:01<Doorslammer>But shouldnt be really
12:02<Georgio>should i upload it?
12:02<Georgio>like in a saved game forum?
12:02<Doorslammer>I had a game that was already started on multiplayer today which was around 1.5 million pounds
12:02<Georgio>its 2032 i think
12:02<Eddi|zuHause2>Doorslammer: implement collision detection and traffic rules for ships :p
12:02<Doorslammer>Within six years of playing the shares around a bit, I got that up to 150 million by 1999
12:02<Eddi|zuHause2>it causes lots of trouble
12:02<Doorslammer>I think I did alright there :)
12:02<Georgio>i never use the same currency twic in a ow
12:03<Doorslammer>I always use pounds as it makes sense to me
12:03<eekee>I sometimes go for, like, a Norwgian theme or whatever but mostly I stick with pounds & dollars
12:03<Georgio>i used dollars in the 500mil one and im using pounds right now
12:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i use at least 3 currencies during the same game :p
12:04<Eddi|zuHause2>i swear one time i'll use 4 :p
12:04<Eddi|zuHause2>but there's no proper east german set...
12:05<Eddi|zuHause2>Georgio: well, even during my own lifetime i had already 3 different currencies (while not moving out of country)
12:05<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: Make one.
12:05<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: if you draw the vehicles ;)
12:05<Georgio>euros one of them? marks maybe?
12:05<eekee>same game? why? :)
12:05<fjb>Uh, me drawing...?
12:05<Eddi|zuHause2>let me rephrase that
12:06<Eddi|zuHause2>if you find me someone to make proper drawings ;)
12:07<fjb>Ok. You could ask Michael, he reappeared. :-)
12:08<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm not sure about the expected success of that :p
12:08<Doorslammer>I hope to see the BR Set come along within my lifetime
12:08<fjb>Hm, ok. Me neither. But more than half of the DBset would be usable for an eastern german set.
12:09<fjb>Doorslammer: How young are you?
12:09<Georgio>i wish that in multiplayer you could build military bases and defend your company lol
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12:09<fjb>Georgio: You just need level crossings between road and rail...
12:09<eekee>funny, I got no sound
12:10<@Bjarni>eekee: plug in the speakers and turn up the volume
12:10<eekee>oh my neohews used to love those :D
12:10<eekee>Bjarni: might help, yeah ;)
12:11<Georgio>an Open Loco would be nice lol with MP and all
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12:11<Georgio>better graphics
12:11<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: how do you make a dock in a cannal???
12:12<Georgio>you cant
12:12<Georgio>i tried multi tinmes
12:12<@Bjarni><Georgio> an Open Loco would be nice lol with MP and all <-- start by reading the EULA in Locomotion first. You will have to start over completely and you can't use sounds or graphics from the game
12:12<Georgio>lol i forgot the .dat thing -.-
12:13<Georgio>how about opensimcity2000
12:13<Georgio>that was a pretty cool game
12:13<Georgio>i no longer have it
12:13<Georgio>you had to build water pipes and everything
12:15<Georgio>i have a 6track 7 length station for offloading oil and it generates millions lol
12:15<Doorslammer>Yep, that would work
12:15<eekee>I'd like to be able to build underground railways. Multiple levels especially
12:15<Doorslammer>Cracking game that was
12:15<Georgio>i had simcity 4 to
12:15<eekee>sc2k was good ^^
12:15<Doorslammer>Dream on eeke
12:15<Georgio>it awesome
12:15<Doorslammer>I still play 4
12:15<Georgio>you can control cars and stuff
12:15<Doorslammer>I still have all 4 versions actually
12:15<Georgio>and fly planes and bomb your city
12:17<Georgio>i forgot modern games have "were gay and dont want you to not make profits off a free game" law
12:17<eekee>modern companies are just unbelievably selfish.
12:18<Doorslammer>Yeah, how cruel *rolls eyes*
12:18<Georgio>ye i agree
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12:21<eekee>Doorslammer: well yeah it hurts a bit. My perspective is more that a natural need - the desire to work and be rewarded for your work - has been exagerated and distorted until it's... rather foul
12:23*Mchl wants to be rewarded for his no working
12:23<eekee>Mchl: oh now... :D
12:23<Doorslammer>But then I dont think you can be blamed for trying to make a living out of song, games, etc.
12:23<Eddi|zuHause2>sc2000 was one of the greatest games of its time, together with TT, which was at a similar time
12:24<eekee>difficult situation really
12:24<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: yeah I agree
12:24<@SmatZ>SC2000 was great :)
12:24<@SmatZ>and still is
12:24<Doorslammer>Here, I actually started playing SimCity again on the SNES the other day
12:24<Doorslammer>Rather buggy it is
12:24<Eddi|zuHause2>i haven't played it for several years now
12:24<@SmatZ>except bugs, like when you had too many "special" buildings, you couldn't get proper info about them
12:24<Doorslammer>Almost as old as I am too at 19
12:25<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, i remember that one :p
12:25<Doorslammer>Trying to get Megapolis for the first time ever now
12:25<Doorslammer>Halfway there :)
12:26<Georgio>man it would be way better if the trains and cars and stuff followed the incline of the roads and rails...
12:26<Eddi|zuHause2>i was never really successful in original simcity
12:26<Eddi|zuHause2>Georgio: make the graphics ;)
12:26<eekee>lol I remember carriges hopping sideways along a slope. That was funny
12:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13582 /branches/noai/src/console_cmds.cpp: [NoAI] -Add: added 'stop_ai', which stops a company controlled by an AI (Yexo)
12:27<Doorslammer>I find FreeTrain rather good too, if I knew how it bloody worked
12:27<Eddi|zuHause2>eekee: what? sounds like a bug
12:27<Doorslammer>It would happen a few times yes
12:28<Georgio>i wonder why maxis quit out on SC
12:28<Sacro>it was reaching the end of its life
12:29<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: in sc2000, I found that you could get trains to carry passangers along a slope, horizontally, with 1-square-long track segments going vertically: |||||||||
12:29<Doorslammer>Maxis got bought out by EA
12:29<Doorslammer>And gradually closed wasnt it?
12:29<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, sc2000's slope handling was... suboptimal
12:30<Mchl>in SC2000 you could build city with roads in only one direction, an it would work
12:30<@SmatZ>eekee: hehe yeah, curves on rail weren't handled very well, too :)
12:30<eekee>ah :D
12:30<@SmatZ>I think the curve or rail direction didn't matter
12:30<@SmatZ>it was just rail tile
12:30<Mchl>same for roads
12:30<Hendikins>Mchl: I remember in SC2000 having cities with only one road.
12:31<Hendikins>It ran in a spiral to the centre of the map.
12:31<@SmatZ>I loved HUGE airports
12:31<Mchl>I've actually seen one without roads
12:31<@SmatZ>like half of map one airport
12:31<Mchl>subway only
12:31<Eddi|zuHause2>in simcity you could make towns with only rails
12:31<@SmatZ>then I had city full of Arcologies...
12:31<Mchl>Arcos were cool
12:31<Doorslammer>Silly idea arcologies
12:31<Georgio>omg i need to rotate my view to see my stations but OTTD cant do it >:(
12:31<Mchl>shame they stripped them from SC3000
12:32<Eddi|zuHause2>and if you built only rails with wires on them, you could switch off transportation funding, and the rails wouldn't break :p
12:32<Georgio>cant see behind steel mil
12:32<pasky>Georgio: turn on transparency?
12:32<eekee>Georgio: open transparency options, it'll help. Rotating would be nice though
12:32<Doorslammer>Nah, it was a dumb idea
12:32<@SmatZ>... OpenSC2000 ....
12:32<Doorslammer>I prefer without arcologies
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12:32<Eddi|zuHause2>Georgio: press ctrl+x
12:32<Doorslammer>Makes you play a proper game
12:32<Georgio>OPENSC2000 FTW
12:32<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: interesting
12:33<eekee>I'd like to play an arcology sim. I think there has been one or two
12:33<pasky>the original simcity is opensource, actually
12:33<Doorslammer>FreeCity isnt it?
12:33<Doorslammer>I found a copy, even though I dont actually need it
12:33<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13583 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): [NoAI] -Fix: in MultiPlayer, prevent AIDebug window opening for clients.
12:33<pasky>it was released for olpc or something
12:33<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, they released the original sources a while back
12:33<pasky>SmatZ!, I guess ;)
12:34<Georgio>SC2000 is better lol
12:34<eekee>I remember being kinda hooked on original SC at my friend's house
12:34<Doorslammer>Not much is new really, but I guess it has potential?
12:34<Georgio>ill help decode/code it
12:34<pasky>I was never too fond of SC personally
12:34<pasky>but I spent quite some time playing lincity
12:34<@SmatZ>pasky: hehe :-) [Admin]pasky :-D and OTTD contributor, too ;-)
12:34<eekee>lincity's graphics put me off. pukey colors
12:34<Georgio>whats the add money thing for OTTD?
12:34<pasky>eekee: i liked it better than simcity graphics :)
12:35<eekee>lol! ok :)
12:35<Eddi|zuHause2>Georgio: didn't you want to google for that? :p
12:35<pasky>but what really rocks is the sc4 thing where you can actually drive around in the city you build
12:35<pasky>I absolutely love that
12:35<Eddi|zuHause2>i never tried the expansion for sc4
12:35<pasky>Mchl: right, that's the opensource simcity :)
12:36<Georgio>i was gonna google
12:36<Eddi|zuHause2>but then you got high?
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12:37<Eddi|zuHause2>man... that was the most stupid song i ever heard :p
12:38<Doorslammer>Ill have to get that expansion bit
12:38<eekee>it.. struck a chord here >_> even though I've never technically done drugs >_>
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12:39<eekee>I was gonna clean my room, and then I started playing openttd
12:39<eekee>*but then
12:39<eekee>I lose track of everything around me when I read or.. well frankly whenever I do anything
12:40<Georgio>i was gonna go to school, but then i got on OTTD...
12:40<Georgio>yea right
12:40<Georgio>more like OTTD OCD
12:40<eekee>Second Life was my most majorly life-sucking game. ottd just keeps me up a bit
12:41<Georgio>mIRC is most life sucking
12:41<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... the video has Jay and Silent Bob? i never noticed...
12:41<eekee>doesn't get me quite so much
12:41<Georgio>you get on when your on OTTD or not yes?
12:41<Georgio>by a few seconds, its more life sucking
12:41<eekee>hmm IRC gets me away from OTTD
12:42<pasky>belugas :)
12:42<Doorslammer> FTW
12:42<SmoKeyy>company take over would be nice
12:42<Eddi|zuHause2>i probably spent more time playing any civ variation than any TT variation
12:42<eekee>oh btw, please, it's not mIRC. IRC is far older than that one program, which I'm sometimes tempted to call the IE of ORC
12:42*Georgio slaps pasky around a bit with a whale!
12:42<SmoKeyy>in multiplayer
12:42*pasky feels popular
12:42<Georgio>you said beluga
12:43<@Belugas>do you want me to kick the little bratt, pasky? Or do you want to do it yourself?
12:44<SmoKeyy>what are nightly builds ?
12:44<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: I spent days on freeciv. >_> I got bored with it before I got a net connection though
12:44<@Belugas>it's a process that builds the sourc4es of trunk every night
12:44<Georgio>i guess ima brat
12:44<SmoKeyy>trunk ?
12:44<@Belugas>so yuhave the most advanced stuff available
12:44<Eddi|zuHause2>i haven't played freeciv very long...
12:44*eekee is more of a cat
12:44<@Belugas>trunk is the place where the sources of OpenTTD is placed
12:44<Eddi|zuHause2>the longest i played civ2
12:44<pasky>nah, I'm happy for any attention I get :D
12:45<Eddi|zuHause2>freeciv just looks bad
12:45<ccfreak2k>I tried FreeCiv, but then I remembered that Civilization II doesn't have automatic unit control like Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.
12:45<SmoKeyy>so for my ignorance
12:45<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: change the tileset lol
12:45<SmoKeyy>nightly builds = good
12:45<Eddi|zuHause2>eekee: doesn't change the window style and the interface
12:45<eekee>ooh there's only one game I don't have that I keep finding myself wanting to play, & that's SMAC. I looked for the linux port on ebay once, but it wasn't on
12:46<Eddi|zuHause2>eekee: and i wasn't dedicated enough to even try if that was possible
12:46<Eddi|zuHause2>what's SMAC?
12:46<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: oh there's about different interfaces now, plus the default is Gtk which is themable.
12:46<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: sid meyers alpha centaurii
12:47<Eddi|zuHause2>and you couldn't say alpha centauri instead, which one could recognize?
12:47<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: but that's longer to type *pouts*
12:47<Eddi|zuHause2>what i found the most interesting about alpha centauri was the customising of units
12:47<pasky>i like freeciv, but i'm used to its interface; and I have never played any of the official Civilization games since Civilization I (which was my very first computer game, on the other hand)
12:48<eekee>same here I guess.
12:48<Georgio>ok i g2g
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12:48<Eddi|zuHause2>but the races are kinda unbalanced, with the UN guy you win practically every election
12:49<Eddi|zuHause2>my first computer game that i remember was sokoban ;)
12:49<Eddi|zuHause2>the next was monkey island ;)
12:49<@Bjarni>my first game was wheeling wallie (or something like that)
12:49<Doorslammer>Postman Pat on ZX Spectrum! :D
12:50<Eddi|zuHause2>oh what fun we had playing "sword fights" :p
12:50<@Belugas>can't remember my first computer game... too long ago
12:50<Eddi|zuHause2>that's not what i said, Belugas ;)
12:50<Doorslammer>It took longer to load the game up than play it ;)
12:51<Doorslammer>Ah memories
12:51<Eddi|zuHause2>i remember playing games before sokoban, but i don't remember the games theirselves
12:51<eekee>murph. I got booted off my bouncer, may have missed afew lines.
12:52<Eddi|zuHause2>i have vague memories of a car racer game on a computer that you hooked up to the TV, but i have no idea what game that was
12:52<Eddi|zuHause2>i can't have been older than 4 back then
12:52*Mchl played Jet Pac on ZX as his first
12:52*frosch123 first played the (somehow adult only) larry adventure with his also underaged siblings
12:53<Noldo>my first was a ball game made for me by my father
12:53<Eddi|zuHause2>i never played any of the larry games
12:53<eekee>Noldo: nice :)
12:54<Eddi|zuHause2>i saw my friend playing one of the newest larry parts (where Oliver Pocher is the speaker in the german translation)
12:54<Noldo>it was very simple but endless fun
12:54<Eddi|zuHause2>and he said "they totally screwed it up"
12:54<eekee>I think my first might have been Jet Set Willy on the Spectrum. It's the first I liked enough to remember, anyway
12:55<eekee>The first I owned was Miner 2049er, which was not too complicated & a lot of fun ^^
12:55<Doorslammer>Jet Set Willy, Larry, there was only one thing on the programmers minds back then :S
12:55<eekee>Larry was two game generations after JSW
12:56<Eddi|zuHause2>oh yes, Lemmings was one of the very early games i played
12:56<eekee>Oh Lemmings!!!!!!!!!!!!
12:56<Doorslammer>Lemmings :D
12:56<eekee>not an early game for me, but I loved it
12:56<Eddi|zuHause2>i once had a lemmings 2, but i couldn't figure it out
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12:57<Mchl>eekee: Miner 2049? Wonder if it has anything in common with Miner 2149 I¹ve got on mz PalmOS
12:58<Eddi|zuHause2>wrong keyboard layout ;)
12:58<Eddi|zuHause2>¹ is not a ', and z is not a y ;)
12:58<Mchl>yes... wonder how it changed
12:59<eekee>Mchl: quite possibly. hmm... platform game? nemesis called Yukon Yohan? little mutant critters?
12:59<Mchl>eekee no... build a mine on an asteroid, deal with striking miners, and low market prices for your ore
12:59<Doorslammer>Anyway, back to canals :P
13:00<eekee>Mchl: oh sounds quite different
13:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i never cared about canals, ships are too underdeveloped for that
13:01<Eddi|zuHause2>there's too little variety and they are not very balanced
13:01<Doorslammer>Fair enough rubbish topic move on :P
13:02<eekee>I found a nice-looking ship grf, but only the one
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13:02<Eddi|zuHause2>there should be different sizes, like river ships that are half a tile wide, up to huge ocean ships of two (or 1.5) tiles wide
13:02<eekee>Mchl: completely different
13:03<Mchl>yeah... I figured it out
13:03<Eddi|zuHause2>and appropriate restrictions for bridge heights and waterway width
13:03<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe we should port YAPP to ships ;)
13:03<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: yeah
13:04<Doorslammer>I much prefer trains anyway
13:04<eekee>I think Yapf was tried for ships, but not fond to be great or something. IIRC
13:04<Doorslammer>What are your favourites in the original set?
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13:04<eekee>trains are a lot of fun, but variety is good
13:04<Eddi|zuHause2>not YAPF, YAPP
13:04<eekee>oh what's that?
13:04<Eddi|zuHause2>path reservation
13:04<Mchl>strange... my keyboard layout got switched in IRC client only...
13:05<eekee>Doorslammer: I basically found the most efficient engine for each region, lol. I loved mag-levs though
13:05<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: ah, new to m
13:05<Doorslammer>Maglevs and monorails are terrible I reckon
13:05<Eddi|zuHause2>it's like THE most important 0.7 feature candidate
13:06<Doorslammer>I dont think they got much of a future as a network
13:06<eekee>Doorslammer: wai?
13:06-!-Mchl [] has quit []
13:06<Doorslammer>I reckon best train is the UU37 or for those who actually know what they are in real life, a British Rail Class 37
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13:07<Doorslammer>They just look awesome I think
13:07<eekee>Doorslammer: ah, I don't play for RL, although I do lke nicer-looking trains. hmm, I've heard of 37s....
13:07<eekee>Doorslammer: you still haven't said what's wrong with maglevs ^^;
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13:08<Doorslammer>I just think its a technology that has its 'wow' factor but not much else
13:08<Doorslammer>Its never going to be mainstream really
13:09<eekee>it has a speed factor, an efficiency factor, and if I'm not wrong a reliability factor. I guess it's got a high start-up cost
13:09*eekee shrugs
13:09<Doorslammer>Its not really that
13:09<Eddi|zuHause2>you got your wires crossed i assume :p
13:09<Doorslammer>Its the fact that the proper railed trains get written off straight after almost
13:10<Doorslammer>And I prefer railed trains
13:10<eekee>ohhhh! ya that's no fun. Actually I like to play with vehicle expiration turned off
13:10<Doorslammer>Thats the way theyve always been
13:10<Doorslammer>Yes, I like that feature
13:10<Eddi|zuHause2>i never play with default vehicles
13:10<Doorslammer>No, I really like the UKRS set
13:10<Doorslammer>But would prefer a more full on BR set
13:11<eekee>well don't forget railed trains superceeded barges IRL, and were in turn partially superceeded by road trucks
13:11<Doorslammer>Yeah, but that will always be the norm wont it?
13:11<Eddi|zuHause2>Doorslammer: there's an UKRS addon for "unbalanced" but "realistic" trains
13:11<Doorslammer>Monorail and maglev are just not going to be widespread
13:12<Doorslammer>I dont follow you there :S
13:12<eekee>oh I think they will be one day. Definitely not as quickly as the transition happens in default TTD though
13:12<Eddi|zuHause2>Doorslammer: it has additional engines that were left out of the standard UKRS because of balancing reasons
13:12<Eddi|zuHause2>but they have historical value
13:13<Doorslammer>Oh yeah, I do have them also
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13:13<Eddi|zuHause2>so what do you think is missing?
13:13-!-divoafx [] has joined #openttd
13:13<Doorslammer>I mean a more comprehensive set, more in the spirit of the set Locomotion got
13:13<Doorslammer>Thats an excellent BR set for that
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13:14<Doorslammer>I dont know
13:14<Doorslammer>Not that anything per se is missing
13:14<Doorslammer>I guess its just nice to know they are there to use for variety
13:15<eekee>I'm more of a network person than an engine person I guess
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13:15<Doorslammer>I love networks but hate all those ridiculous designs for "efficient" junctions they do now
13:16<Doorslammer>I like them simple as crossovers or the occasional over under
13:16<Doorslammer>Just the way I like to do things I guess
13:17<eekee>crossovers usually create gridlock on my networks. They're too dense
13:18<ccfreak2k>That's why YAPP signals are krad.
13:18<Doorslammer>Yeah, I always try and have a sense of realism in my networks
13:18<@Rubidium> <- don't have the space for highly efficient junctions
13:18<ccfreak2k>They let you make simple junctions and crossovers without the gridlock associated with them.
13:18<Doorslammer>Even the individual types are coloured to what they would have appeared to be in R/L
13:19<eekee>ccfreak2k: I await with eagerness
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13:20<eekee>Doorslammer: sweeyt. That already looks more 'efficient' than some of my organic creations though ^^
13:20<Doorslammer>Im going to have to learn them up before using them
13:20<Doorslammer>Because when I first learn of presignals, I was rather slow in getting them right
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13:21<eekee>I had to experiment with presignals. I soon get the hang of things when I experiment in a very contorlled environment
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13:22<Doorslammer>I still dont get the one you get for the third click though
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13:22<Doorslammer>IE I have yet to use it properly without it not working
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13:24<eekee>Doorslammer: that one's not so great really
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13:25<eekee>Doorslammer: it's occasionally useful to allow trains to pass up and down simultaneously while stopping a train going across
13:25<Doorslammer>What is it for, par example?
13:25<eekee>.. sort of.. lol
13:25<Doorslammer>Oh I see
13:25<Doorslammer>So say I have two lines going across and one sort of crossover
13:26<Doorslammer>I place that signal on the two lines?
13:26<Doorslammer>And two trains can cross whilst in the same 'signal block' correct?
13:26<eekee>no, inbetween. give me a minute, I have to see my landlord, but after that I'll make a screenshot
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13:27<Doorslammer>See, it wasn ice and easy with just green and red yes? :P
13:29<eekee>rofl no it could be terrible!
13:29<Doorslammer>At least I knew what they meant ;)
13:33<Doorslammer>Maybe I can raincheck on the presignal lesson another day... ;)
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13:39<Eddi|zuHause2> <-- haha, the electric engine is the oldest one on the picture :p
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13:40<@Bjarni>the electric engine looks like it's from 1920-1935 while the locomotive looks like it might be built during WW2
13:41<@Bjarni>so if you had asked for the oldest engine I think I would have said the electric one
13:41<Eddi|zuHause2>afaik the first E91 was delivered like 1915
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13:42<Eddi|zuHause2>i just don't know if this 001 is really from the first series
13:42<Eddi|zuHause2>they were renumbered quite a few times ;)
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13:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: bjarni * r13584 /trunk/src/blitter/factory.hpp:
13:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Fix: [OSX] Fixed issue where 10.5 failed to switch to fullscreen
13:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: This is done by selecting the 32bpp-anim blitter by default as it seems Apple removed some 8bpp support
13:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Since this is done at runtime the same binary will still select 8bpp on 10.3 and 10.4
13:56<Eddi|zuHause2>so much for "switching to fullscreen increases drawing speed" :p
13:58<@Bjarni>I don't think that was true for 10.5 anyway
13:58<@Bjarni>it's still true for 10.3 and 10.4
13:58<@Bjarni>this game works best under 10.4.x in fullscreen
14:02<@peter1138>the old "but you should move to opengl!" argument :o
14:04<Prof_Frink>No! Move to DirectQ!
14:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13585 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (5 files): [NoAI] -Add: possibility to get information/perform order changes based on the current order of a vehicle.
14:10<fjb>This is the most important aplication for your Mac. So stay with 10.4.
14:11<blathijs>Hmm, good that we have those 32bpp blitters ready already :-)
14:12-!-lobster is now known as DEEJAYlobster
14:12<@Rubidium>OSX had a 32 bpp 'blitter' for a long time already
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14:14*DEEJAYlobster blatantly advertises
14:15<DEEJAYlobster>it WILL get you laid
14:15-!-Gekz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:16*Rubidium rather listens to Enya than to that ;)
14:19<DEEJAYlobster>Enya is usually rather awful
14:19<DEEJAYlobster>iTunes is Now playing: Björk - Stigmata Soundtrack - All is full of love (stigmata remix)
14:19<DEEJAYlobster>ON THE RADIO
14:20<eekee>omg bjork!
14:20*eekee scribbles the link down for possible later use
14:21<DEEJAYlobster>iTunes is Now playing: Kaiser Chiefs - Employment - Oh my god
14:23<@peter1138>megamix :o
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14:35*Belugas is discovering the new Coldplay
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15:00<@Belugas>boring record so far
15:00<fjb>Newgrfs are fun:
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15:11<eekee>I'm noticing that in recent svn builds signals can sometimes stay ed for no reason
15:12<Noldo>stay ed?
15:12<Noldo>ah red
15:12<@SmatZ>builds signals?
15:12<eekee>SmatZ: recent builds from the svn tree
15:13<eekee>yeah that. That's what I should have typed
15:13<@SmatZ>so you build a signal
15:13<@SmatZ>and it is red?
15:14<@SmatZ>eekee: it may happen when you make a circle from combo signals
15:14<@SmatZ>then it stays red
15:14<eekee>SmatZ: no this is signals that trains have been passing through and all working successfully, and one day they just don't go green, or something
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15:15<@SmatZ>do you have a save?
15:15<eekee>yeah, uploading
15:15<@SmatZ>there were no changes to signal code...
15:15<eekee>well "recent" in my case may mean in the last 6 months to year
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15:18<eekee>screenshot:,%2029th%20Sep%202164.png Note the water train near center, and it's station in the lower right
15:19<@SmatZ>eekee: savegame is better
15:19<@SmatZ>there may be train in depot
15:19<@SmatZ>not visible
15:20<eekee>SmatZ: ya. my upload's slow, and my usual site seems broken
15:20<eekee>save game:,%2029th%20Sep%202164.sav
15:23*Belugas ditches Coldplay in Recycle Bin
15:24<@SmatZ>eekee: it could be a bug, but also it can be caused by messing with GRFs, loading game from old version with that problem or so...
15:24<@SmatZ>do you have any reproducible case?
15:24<@SmatZ>ha reproduced
15:24<@SmatZ>maybe the buffer is too small :-x
15:24<eekee>SmatZ: no... I've seen ghosts of the problem in other games. It comes & goes
15:25<eekee>ah reproduced yay
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15:27<@Belugas>technical term describing internal structure of signaling system
15:28<Noldo>Prof_Frink: please
15:28<eekee>Belugas: yeah, I have vague notions of what a buffer is; was just curious how it applied to signalling, but nvm
15:33*eekee stares at a junction he hasn't got right in 3 years of play
15:33<@Belugas>let say signal modifications/creations/changes are placed in buffer before been sent to the map array.
15:33<@Belugas>allows for speedups
15:33<eekee>ahh ok!
15:35<@Belugas>and blocks my bridge project too!
15:35*Belugas cires
15:36<eekee>aw ;.;
15:36<eekee>what is your bridge project Belugas?
15:37<Noldo>there aren't that many places bridges can go
15:37<@Belugas>onthe moon?
15:38<Prof_Frink>Well no
15:38<Prof_Frink>But that's what the tunnel's for.
15:38<eekee>there are a lot more places they could go than formerly, and ya, tunnels can be good
15:39<hylje>tunnel to the moon
15:39<eekee>very XD
15:39<Noldo>so what is there that bridges can't do today
15:39<eekee>you plugged that one already!
15:39<DEEJAYlobster>t'is replug'd again
15:39<DEEJAYlobster>in serious lack of listeners atm
15:40*hylje sends DEEJAYlobster to the redundant department of redundancy
15:40<Noldo>briges that make turns and can split maybe?
15:41<eekee>mmm, maybe in the future eh?
15:41<@Belugas>bridges cannot dance the JAVA dance
15:41<hylje>also merge and loop over/under itself
15:41<@Belugas>a Moebius bridge... nice
15:41<Noldo>hylje: so true!
15:42<eekee>I saw a photo of an awesome footbridge the other day. It curved way out from this mountain, supported by wires from a leaning pillar
15:42<Noldo>Belugas propably can't be tricked into giving any hints though
15:42*DEEJAYlobster is never redundant
15:42<DEEJAYlobster>t'is just bad timing
15:42<DEEJAYlobster>anyway, i'd best give up the radio for today
15:42<DEEJAYlobster>i have some mixing work to do as well
15:42<eekee>DEEJAYlobster: bit heavy for me
15:43-!-Purno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:43<@Belugas>Noldo, no, i'm TRAINED into NO giving hints
15:43-!-pasky [pasky@2a01:b0:b0::] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:44<Prof_Frink> Right, torture it is then.
15:44<hylje>can't have nice stuff
15:44<DEEJAYlobster>eekee: t'is the first metal-ish song of today
15:44<Noldo>Belugas: really? Where did you get that training?
15:44<eekee>ahh ok
15:44<DEEJAYlobster>ah well, closing up now
15:44-!-DEEJAYlobster is now known as lobster
15:45<eekee>I'm going to have to get the pencil & paper out for this junction of mine
15:51<@Belugas>Noldo, while working on OTTD
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15:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13587 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h):
15:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: make some globals members of VehicleListBase since they are used as such
15:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Cleanup: some small things referring the change
15:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13586 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Using default parameter, for cases where there are few exceptions.
15:59<@Belugas>numbers fucked up
15:59<@Belugas>CIA-3 said r13587 BEFORE r13586 :)
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16:03<eekee>huh, that junction of mine turned out to be one of those "why didn't I see it before" things
16:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13588 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Documentation: Document the function PopupMainPlayerToolbMenu. Makes it a bit clearer, don't you think?
16:05<@Rubidium>the lovely world of email
16:07<@SmatZ>eekee: fixed
16:07<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13589 /trunk/src/signal.cpp: -Fix (r11802): signals could be propagated through waypoints built in orthogonal axis
16:07<@SmatZ>it was caused by your waypoint behind station...
16:08<eekee>SmatZ: interesting, how did that do it?
16:09<@SmatZ>eekee: waypoint axis wasnt' checked
16:09<eekee>I see!
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2>that was also my guess when looking at the picture
16:09<eekee>glad it's fixed. If I svn up now will I get the fix?
16:09<@Belugas>easy to say after the fact Eddi|zuHause2 ;)
16:09<@SmatZ>yes eekee
16:09<eekee>ok :)
16:17<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... these idiots are actually winning... that can't be true :p
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16:22<eekee>sometimes I wish you could see what path a train has taken in the past few minutes
16:22<eekee>also find out from a waypoint which trains are ordered to go via it
16:24<@Belugas>viewing the orders is not enough???
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16:24<@Belugas>don't tell me your too lazy to do that, please!
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16:25<Eddi|zuHause2>getting all trains routed through a waypoint is important... it is possible for stations, but not for waypoints
16:25<eekee>it is important.
16:25<Prof_Frink>peter1138: Don't try to help Jolteon unless you *like* bagning your head against a brick wall
16:26<eekee>Belugas: try that save game I linked & see if you can find all the trains that go through Waypoint Whithattan-on-sea. Hint: None of the destination stations are nearby
16:28<eekee>Belugas: alternatively, imagine 171 trains in a game that you've played on and off for years...
16:31<@Belugas>that would be very hard for me to imagine... Been so long I ahve not played a game ^)^
16:33<eekee>ah :D
16:34<Eddi|zuHause2>i fell in that trap already... i just assumed i could get that information like with stations... and then no button there...
16:34<eekee>It would be natural.
16:37<fjb>Who is Jolteon?
16:37<eekee>hmm, name rings a bell
16:38<Eddi|zuHause2>i assume someone in the forum
16:38<fjb>Is there a way to find all vehicles which have an invalid order?
16:38<Prof_Frink>and #tycoon.
16:38<Prof_Frink>And utterly devoid of clue.
16:39<fjb>Who is it in the forum? The guy that gets outperformed by the ai?
16:39<Prof_Frink>I dunno about in TTD, but he's got a linux server and wants to run something in wine on it.
16:40<fjb>OpenTTD in Wine on a Linux server? :)
16:40<eekee>dude, liek, why? :D
16:40<Prof_Frink>He has no clue about linux and doesn't want to learn.
16:41<Prof_Frink>fjb: In parallels on a mac xserve.
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16:42<fjb>Poor guy. He should get a Windows server instead if he doesn't want to learn.
16:43<fjb>But the one who always gets beaten by the ai is also a bit strange.
16:43<eekee>honestly though, is there *any* difference in running ottd on a linux server than a windows server?
16:43<Prof_Frink>Well, calling Jolteon strange is an insult to us strange people.
16:43<Prof_Frink>eekee: Not openttd.
16:44<eekee>yeah I dont' think strange is the word, sadly :(
16:44<eekee>Prof_Frink: oh ok
16:44<Prof_Frink>Some other game, which is broken because it crashes when he uses a special script in it.
16:44<eekee>huh, I nuked 3 waypoints and my junctions magically cleared up. yay path finding
16:45<eekee>Prof_Frink: Oh :-J
16:45<fjb>eekee needs YAPP. :)
16:46<eekee>I'm actually using NPF in this game. I kinda like NPF, it's just a big heavy
16:47<fjb>Does NPF have any advantage over yapf?
16:47<Eddi|zuHause2>usually not
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16:52<@Belugas>bye, going home
16:53<fjb>Bye Belugas
16:53<@Rubidium>fjb: in some cornercases NPF seems to work a little better
16:54<fjb>Cases like a lost train? :)
16:54<@Rubidium>fjb: could, but very unlikely
16:55<@Rubidium>only if the route the train needs to take is going into a station and reverse there (IIRC)
16:56<@Rubidium>lost vehicles with YAPF are more than likely genuinely not able to reach their destination
16:57<eekee>mmm yeah I have seen better lost messages from yapf
16:57<fjb>My lost trains tend to get stuck in a dead end station that is shorter than the train.
16:57<eekee>I guess I like npf for the 'no sharp turns' but even then...
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16:59<fjb>Uh, sounds like Germany won again...
16:59<fjb>"no sharp turns"?
17:00<eekee>yeah, 90 degree turns
17:03<Eddi|zuHause2>eekee: that description is confusing, because it is also supported by YAPF
17:03<fjb>I disable that always.
17:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i usually try to avoid 2x45° curves also
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17:06<fjb>Me too. :)
17:08<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: wow ok. It wasn't when I checked, a long time ago
17:08<Eddi|zuHause2>it was always, the description just did not say that
17:10<eekee>ok, now you are being confusing. I tested the no 90 degree option with yapf quite some time ago, and yapf did not then prevent trainst from makign 90 degree turns. What is confusing is that the description for the no 90 degree turn option still says that it requires npf
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17:11<Eddi|zuHause2>it should say "NPF or YAPF"
17:12<fjb>That must have really been quite some time ago. It worked with yapf when I started to play OpebTTD about a year ago.
17:12<Prof_Frink>It should disable itself when not using npf or yapf
17:13<eekee>yeah, probably was more than a year ago
17:14<eekee>I should really re-check these things, but checking is hassle, and only obviously worth doing for new stuff
17:15<Eddi|zuHause2> <- this engine looks weird...
17:15<Prof_Frink>It looks like a box with a coathanger on top.
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17:17<eekee>hehe. I've kinda got used to that look, don't notice it any more
17:18<eekee>It don't quite look right though
17:19<fjb>It is not as tall as the usual engines because it was build to go to the neighbour countries.
17:19<Eddi|zuHause2> <- this is what an engine should look like ;)
17:21<eekee>mmm, nicer, but not my thing either :)
17:21<ccfreak2k>THIS is an engine.
17:21<eekee>I like engines to either be blocky or else showily streamlined
17:22<Eddi|zuHause2>the E 03 was mildly streamlined
17:22<Eddi|zuHause2>it was designed to go 200km/h
17:22<Eddi|zuHause2>in the 60's
17:22<Prof_Frink>ccfreak2k: Nah,
17:23<Eddi|zuHause2>Prof_Frink: did it by accident hit a parrot?
17:23<eekee>Prof_Frink: yeah that one I like ^_^
17:23<Prof_Frink>ccfreak2k: or
17:24<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: Shinky.
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17:24<eekee>actually, especially with that paintwork! I used to see them often in matte black with a little yellow patch on the front
17:24<Eddi|zuHause2>japanese trains look weird
17:25<@Rubidium>but they are really effective
17:25<Touqen>They are aerodynamic
17:25<Prof_Frink>eekee: They were dull green when I was using them semiregularly
17:25<Touqen>drag minimization = fast!
17:25<@Rubidium>a train passing at 300 km/h with 1 track separation means no noticable wind on the platform
17:26<eekee>Prof_Frink: when was that, and what region? The black ones were Gatwick <-> Victoria expresses, I used to go past Gatwick on a different train to Victoria
17:26<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: But what noise does it make?
17:26<Prof_Frink>Midland Mainline on the Midland Main Line.
17:26<ccfreak2k><Prof_Frink> ccfreak2k: or
17:26<ccfreak2k>This makes me think of Back to the Future.
17:26<eekee>ahh I never traveled up there
17:26<@Rubidium>two trains passing at 600 km/h speed difference at a simple dual track there is no noticable shake of the trains
17:27<@Rubidium>the *only* thing is the window slightly vibrating
17:27<eekee>ccfreak2k: ooh an A4! I love those
17:27<Prof_Frink>That's because it's Japan. Physics doesn't apply in Japan.
17:27<ccfreak2k>A what.
17:27<Touqen>I can think of two japanese cities that might disagree.
17:28<eekee>rofl Prof
17:28<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: those ones look funky ^_^'
17:29<Prof_Frink>eekee: I saw the Union of South Africa while waiting for an HST. That was a good day.
17:29<Eddi|zuHause2>eekee: they drove Berlin-Dresden before WWII, even modern trains do not beat their times
17:29<@Rubidium>Prof_Frink: <- gives you a feeling of the noise
17:29<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: It's funny, the.. um.. Teutonic countries seem to have a whole different sense of proportion to the English-speaking ones
17:29<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: nice :)
17:29<eekee>Prof_Frink: yeah I bet :)
17:29<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: BORING.
17:30<@Rubidium>Prof_Frink: yup
17:30<@SmatZ>doesn't look like 300km/h
17:30<@Rubidium>but pretty damn silent for a train passing the station at 250-ish km/h
17:30<@SmatZ>maybe 100km/h
17:30<@Rubidium>SmatZ: those trains are amazingly long
17:31<@SmatZ>ok :)
17:31<Eddi|zuHause2>eekee: the second engine of that type got rebuilt into that one:
17:31<Eddi|zuHause2>that is now the fastest operational steam engine
17:31<eekee>SmatZ, Rubidium: I think that was way over 100kph
17:31<@Rubidium>SmatZ: the train is about half a kilometer long
17:32<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: another nice one ^^
17:32<@Rubidium>SmatZ: and it runs fairly regularly
17:32<Eddi|zuHause2>it was only used for testing purposes
17:32<@Rubidium>like once every 5 minutes
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17:33<@SmatZ>500m / 5s ~ 360 km/h
17:34<eekee>I was going on how fast it looked to be approaching. I drive regularly at 100kph+, it looked to be probably more than twice that
17:34<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: is the best HST noise I've found so far
17:35<@Rubidium>sounds like a racecar in the end
17:35<@SmatZ>eekee: I suppose you drive regularly in towns, right? :-P
17:35<Prof_Frink>Yeah, the trailing engine makes one hell of a nice noise.
17:35<@SmatZ>well I don't know
17:36<eekee>they do sound nice
17:36<@SmatZ>I just saw a video at youtube with a car going
17:36<@SmatZ>300+kph , at it was looking faster than this
17:36<Prof_Frink>Suoercharged Paxman Valentas ftw.
17:36<@SmatZ>but maybe I forgot everything
17:36*SmatZ is dumb today for some reason
17:37<eekee>SmatZ: well maybe it was over 200kph (my estimate) and below 300, as you estimated.
17:38<eekee>on a totally slower note, I always liked the looks of these for some strange reason: Maybe it's the color. Sounds funky too
17:39<@Rubidium> <- gives you a feeling of the second class in the shinkansen
17:40<eekee>smooth o.o
17:41<@peter1138>eekee: so what's the difference between that and Prof_Frink's? heh
17:42<eekee>peter1138: uhm, not sure ^_^
17:44<@Rubidium>SmatZ: the train goes 300 km/h through stations (we measured that with a GPS in the train)
17:44<@Rubidium>however I'm not 100% sure it does it there too
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17:45<@Rubidium>however, 230 km/h seemed to be their minimum cruising speed
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17:46<@SmatZ>I trust you :)
17:46<fjb>Shit, my iron ore mine will be exhausted in 12 months.
17:51<eekee>exhausted? this a new feature?
17:51<eekee>man alive I need a grf to shut level crossings up!
17:52<@peter1138>there is one
17:52<eekee>I shall have to hunt for it
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause2>eekee: it's a newindustries feature
18:00-!-Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:00<Eddi|zuHause2>and when you use trams, level crossings will not be an issue anymore :p
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18:01<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: ok
18:02<Eddi|zuHause2>(along the same lines as "when your head hurts, let someone step on your foot" :p)
18:02<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: dude... *sigh* trams do not prevent the towns building roads. Yeah lol
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18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>have you actually used tramsets that have sounds for starting?
18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>that gets really insane when you have 20 trams in the city ;)
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18:05<eekee>yes! :( Actually I've used Serbian and GRVTS. Serbian is noisy, but GRVTS has the individual tram sounds much quieter, it's nice
18:07<fjb>You get used to the trams, trust me. :)
18:08<fjb>Or you have a reason to lay a new track through the cold and lonely mountains.
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18:09<eekee>fjb: rofl yes
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>mountains also have sounds :p
18:10<fjb>I'm currently digging through snowy canadian mountains. The next mine is far away.
18:11<fjb>The wind blows, but that sound is much differend from the trams.
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>and no, i am really sensitive to annoying sounds... part of the reason why i can't watch TV commercials
18:13<eekee>lots of people are >_>
18:13<fjb>They are annoying even without sound.
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>no really... people tell me to "just block out the sound", but i can't
18:14<fjb>They invented a new feature for blue ray discs where products get placed into the scenes.
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>they have never learned the beauty of timeshift, though ;)
18:15<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, some people can't block input. Mostly people with Asperger syndrome afaik
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18:18<Eddi|zuHause>that'll probably fit to half the people here ;) (to a certain degree)
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18:19<Eddi|zuHause>but no, i blame that to the fact that i have a good training in music
18:19<eekee>ok :)
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19:06<eekee>where's the old option to replace all trains of one type with another?
19:06<+glx>vehicle list then manage list
19:07<eekee>oh there! Im getting tired
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19:13<eekee>cor, replacing that engine type cut down the breakdowns a lot
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19:15<Eddi|zuHause>i never play with breakdowns
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19:16<eekee>I normally have them reduced
19:24<eekee>shutdown time
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19:29<ben_goodger>good monring
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19:31<ben_goodger>ah, I love living in europe at this time
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19:32<@SmatZ>morning :-x
19:32<bowman>where in europe is it morning :P
19:33<@SmatZ>maybe in eastern russia
19:33<ben_goodger>great britain, ireland, and ideally in spain, portugal and parts of france although those use CEST despite being on the same longitude as us
19:33<bowman>everything before 9am is night
19:34<ben_goodger>and it's a lovely morning. it will probably get light in about three hours, just before I go to bed
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19:41<ccfreak2k>Good lord.
19:41<ccfreak2k>I'm using Compiz fusion.
19:48<ben_goodger>burn him!
19:48<ben_goodger>burn the traitor
19:49<ben_goodger>ccfreak2k: what are your initial thoughts?
19:51<ccfreak2k>It's purely eyecandy.
19:51<ben_goodger>more than that, surely?
19:51<ccfreak2k>Not really.
19:51<ben_goodger>it introduces significant productivity reductions as well
19:53<ccfreak2k>Unless rendering things in 3D improves drawing performance, I can't see how it'll help at all.
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19:54<ben_goodger>using the GPU does indeed improve drawing performance. I defy you to stomach gnome-system-monitor 2.22 without hardware acceleration
19:54<ben_goodger>but the use of compiz doesn't affect the drawing performance, no.
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19:55<ccfreak2k>I can't.
19:55<ccfreak2k>Slackware doesn't include GNOME anymore.
19:56<ben_goodger>well, I suppose GNOME was invented in 1999, so it's probably too new for slackware's stability standards---don't hate me, I'm using debian :P
19:56<ccfreak2k>Well, it WAS included, but was removed in 10.1 (I think).
19:56<@SmatZ>isn't there freerock gnome?
19:56<@SmatZ>at least I was running it
19:56<Sacro>slackware only has one dev
19:56<Sacro>and he uses KDE
19:57<ben_goodger>ah, that explains it
19:57<@SmatZ>GNOME SlackBuild v2.22.1 is a complete
19:57<@SmatZ> GNOME Desktop Environment for Slackware Linux v12.1
19:57<ccfreak2k>There's more than one GNOME "distro", and that's one reason why it was removed.
19:59<ccfreak2k>Short version: other people already maintain GNOME packages for Slackware, so it'll save me a ton of work to not build it.
20:01<ben_goodger>the solution might be to get more developers
20:01<ben_goodger>debian has I don't know how many hundred of them
20:02<ben_goodger>it saves a lot of work for the project's founder...
20:02<ccfreak2k>How is it a "solution" when there's no problem?
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20:16<ccfreak2k>Compiz disabled the application key.
20:16<ccfreak2k>Rather, it unbound the key from KDE/X11.
20:16<ccfreak2k>So now I don't have the Application key shortcuts anymore.
20:16<ben_goodger>it's good at that
20:16<ben_goodger>incidentally, shameless market research: what is your opinion on the design of if you don't mind?
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20:25<Eddi|zuHause>the word "incidentally" does not make any sense in this context
20:26<ben_goodger>yes it does
20:26<ben_goodger>it's a non-word inserted for interest.
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20:29<Eddi|zuHause>"non-words" is a concept unknown to germans
20:30<ben_goodger>well, imagine if someone said to you "I'm sorry to bother you, but would you please consider closing the window if it's not too much trouble?" without being sarcastic.
20:30<ben_goodger>all of that besides "close the window please" are non-words in this context
20:31<@SmatZ>what about "please"?
20:31<@SmatZ>"close, window" are enough
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>the closest to "non-words" a german has is "naja", "übrigens" and "beziehungsweise"
20:31<ben_goodger>please is the minimum required for basic politeness
20:31<ben_goodger>what do those mean?
20:32<@SmatZ>maybe even "WINDOW!" if you shout it really loudly
20:32<ben_goodger>I'd love an opportunity to shout "beziehunsweise" really loudly
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: i actually get away with "cold!"
20:32<@SmatZ>everyone will understand he should close it
20:32<+glx>it's like "DOOR"
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>or even "mmm"
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>with the right emphasis ;)
20:33<ben_goodger>what do you think of the damned website? :P
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20:34<Eddi|zuHause2>and germans are very careful with the word "please"
20:35<ben_goodger>because bitte means "you're welcome" also?
20:35<Eddi|zuHause2>no, just in general ;)
20:35<Eddi|zuHause2>in england, people also say please when they actually mean "fuck off"
20:36<ben_goodger>do we?
20:36<ccfreak2k>Don't you mean "piss off"?
20:36<@SmatZ>ben_goodger: fine
20:36<ben_goodger>SmatZ: thank you. any further comment?
20:36<@SmatZ>ben_goodger: validator
20:37<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, "piss off" is even a closer translation of the german word ;)
20:37<ben_goodger>no trouble there...
20:37<@SmatZ>ben_goodger: I like sites that don't use many images, I like blue and yellow, and also it looks fine with 1600x1200 resolution
20:37<Eddi|zuHause2>and "bitte" can also mean "are you insane?"
20:39<ben_goodger>the MIME problem we will have to live with, because internet explorer attempts to download anything served as application/xml+xhtml
20:39<Eddi|zuHause2>i hate pages which have a fixed width and don't scale with screen width
20:40<ben_goodger>eddi|zuHause2: you are not aware of the problems posed by very wide text lines?
20:40<@SmatZ>I agree with Eddi
20:40<@Belugas>me too
20:40<@Belugas>hem... on waht?
20:40<ben_goodger>the site does scale with screen width
20:41<@SmatZ>it is bad to have page at 1/4 of width of my monitor
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20:41<Eddi|zuHause2>thanks for your support anyway ;)
20:41<ben_goodger>the left hand yellow bit simply does not increase beyond 65 characters per line as this means it becomes unreadable
20:41<Eddi|zuHause2>ben_goodger: not the "news" part, which contains the actually relevant text
20:42<Eddi|zuHause2>ben_goodger: not everyone uses 10pt font
20:42<ben_goodger>...oh, you mean it fails to scale with font size?
20:43<ben_goodger>it shouldn't scale with screen size, as that will make it too wide to read
20:43<ben_goodger>but I will see whether I can't make it scale with the font size.
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21:39<@Belugas>mmh... a sleeping ghost :S
21:41<Pikka>!seen peter1138
21:42<Pikka>oh wait
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21:43<Sacro>Pikka: @
21:43<SmoKeyy>fucking noobs
21:43<SmoKeyy>making trains over my busses
21:43<SmoKeyy>and putting up signs blocking ships
21:44<SmoKeyy>and my constructions
21:45<@Belugas>at this time? peter1138 is quite sleepy, i think, Pikka :)
21:45<SmoKeyy>it's only 4:41 AM
21:46<@Belugas>for a guy that has to wake up early and get to the office, i guess it's still time to sleep :P
21:46<@Belugas>not everyone have the "chance" of still been a student
21:47<SmoKeyy>i have exams monday
21:47<SmoKeyy>series of exams
21:47<SmoKeyy>haven't studied dirt
21:48-!-egladil [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:48<SmoKeyy>instead i've played ottd 18 hours str8
21:48<@Belugas>dirt is supposed to be dealt with a vacuum cleaner...
21:48<@Belugas>not been studied :S
21:48<SmoKeyy>i ment
21:49<@Belugas>not str8
21:49<@Belugas>str8 is not cool
21:49<@Belugas>it's just... short :P
21:49<SmoKeyy>i'm not using abreviations to be c00lzorzorous
21:49<SmoKeyy>i'm using them CUZ im tired
21:50<SmoKeyy>3 more minutes till my porn movie is over
21:50<SmoKeyy>so i can wank off and get some sleep
21:50<SmoKeyy>till i get my stuff prepared
21:50<SmoKeyy>cya guys later
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21:52<@Belugas>good luck withg the exams ntils then
21:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13590 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Enumification of the Save/Load menu items
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 20 00:00:44 2008