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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-21

---Logopened Sat Jun 21 00:00:24 2008
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03:12<Wolfensteijn>/server -m 192.168.1.144 9003 7yC00n
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05:00<planetmaker>morning
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05:12<Eddi|zuHause3># ich zahle und verlasse den Bäcker
05:12<Eddi|zuHause3># hör noch den Nachrichtensprecher
05:12<Eddi|zuHause3># "Lage wieder mal dramatisch verschlechtert,
05:12<Eddi|zuHause3># heute fantastisches Wetter"
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05:31<dih>very clever mr. Wolfensteijn
05:31<dih>i hope for you, you dont use that password everywhere, and have changed it by now!
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05:35<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, let's hack his server 192.168.1.144!!
05:37-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd
05:38<dih>it's more like, try to hack my gateway!
05:39<dih>+ the highlight and all...
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07:37<Mchl>hello
07:37<ln>butelka bezzwrotna
07:39<Doorslammer>Hi
07:39<Doorslammer>Any helpful people here know which side of train has to be lighter? / or \
07:41<Mchl>ln: butelka bezzwrotna?
07:42<ln>that's polish
07:42<Mchl>it is
07:42<Mchl>Doorslammer: what do you mean?
07:42<Doorslammer>Well, Im attempting my first ever GRF
07:42<Doorslammer>Ive done a / view already
07:42<Gekz>oh
07:42<Gekz>lighter as in colouyr
07:42<Gekz>not weight
07:42<Doorslammer>But would like to know before I start the \ view if that has to be lighter or darker
07:42<Doorslammer>Yeah
07:43<Gekz>why not just start a game and have a look
07:43<Gekz>lol
07:43-!-Zorn [zorn@e177233168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
07:43<Doorslammer>Laziness
07:43<Doorslammer>Oh very well :P
07:44<Mchl>ln: what do you need non-returnable bottle for?
07:44<Doorslammer>Now, my poor eyesight tells me it's \ that is darker. Correct?
07:44<Gekz>thought so
07:45<Mchl>as sun is on the eastern side, that would make sense
07:45<Doorslammer>Just wanted it to go well and not have a major fault to correct later ;)
07:45<Doorslammer>Cheers, just the info I needed
07:45<Doorslammer>Making the Tyne and Wear Metrocars
07:46<Doorslammer>http://groups.msn.com/tyneweartransportgroup/metroin1992.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1723
07:46<ln>Mchl: nothing. see, i don't know how to say "hello" in polish, so i had to use one of the few phrases i know.
07:47<Doorslammer>In: I thought Eurovision would teach me :P
07:47<Mchl>ln: I see :)
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07:56<_SmoKe_>omg LOL
07:56<_SmoKe_>http://www.ihateyoujulia.com/?id=b1d68043552cc0a375213317a7543a01
07:56<_SmoKe_>i gotta do that to my next ex girlfriend
07:58<Gekz>lol
07:59<Doorslammer>Your future ex :P
07:59<_SmoKe_>w/e
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08:07<Doorslammer>Now for the electric pickup to draw
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08:24<Doorslammer>Gah! Stuck on the electric pickup on the roof
08:26<EER>I am having trouble with one of my lorry stations, it appears that every once in a while the rating drops to 0%, even though I am servicing it quite well
08:26<EER>I have 53 lorries travelling about 25 tiles (transferring goods)
08:27<Doorslammer>Cor blimey
08:27<Doorslammer>Thats a fair few guv :P
08:27<EER>the station itself has 7 tiles of truck stops
08:27<EER>yes, I need to push 1000 goods a few tiles away to my train station ;)
08:27<EER>I have the savegame: www.eer.cc/stuff/Wronnville Transport, 5th Jun 1995-2.sav (nightly r13592)
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08:28<EER>be warned though, I am experimenting with the toyland stuff, so it may be hard on the eyes
08:28<EER>the name of the station is 'Wronville transfer'
08:28<Mchl>load OpenGFX and it won't
08:29<EER>I'm trying to get my sister to like this game, so gfx like this may help, then I'll have her move on to real scenarios :D
08:29<EER>anyway, I saved that game about one month before the drop in rating
08:30<EER>upon reloading it seems to consistently drop around the 9th of july
08:30<Doorslammer>I may have bodged a fix to my Metro
08:30<Doorslammer>I believe it is finished for now :)
08:30<Mchl>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Graphics_Replacement
08:30<Doorslammer>Just need a coder
08:31<Mchl>EER: there's quite nice replacement for standard Toyland tiles
08:31<Doorslammer>Shall upload to the server post haste
08:31<Doorslammer>SErver doh!
08:31<Doorslammer>TT Forums I meant
08:31<EER>lets see
08:32<Eddi|zuHause3>EER: bugs.openttd.org
08:32<EER>is that the 'toyland preview'
08:32<Mchl>newTerrain
08:33<EER>ok, I'll report it as a bug. I wish I had a debugger here so I could investigate further, ah well.
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08:34<Mchl>also there some other GFX abailable on that page, you might want to take a look at them
08:34<EER>can you load a new grf with a game in progress?
08:35<Mchl>there should be no problems with these ones, as they only replace graphics, without other changes
08:36<@SmatZ>bugreports with savegames where newgrf was changed in-game are likely to be closed
08:36<Mchl>never had any problems with OpenGFX GRFs :P
08:37<+glx>they can be static so of course
08:37<@SmatZ>OpenGFX seems to replace only sprites
08:37<EER>no problem, I didn't change it before the problem occurred
08:37<EER>and it seems reproducible with the savegame, so I'll go ahead and upload it :)
08:37<@Rubidium>EER: it isn't a bug what you are experiencing. Everytime someone dies in one of your vehicles the ratings of station nearby drop.
08:37<EER>oh, that could be the case
08:38<@Rubidium>and your road vehicles are getting run over by trains all the time
08:38<EER>true, I didn't know that impacted ratings so heavily
08:38<@SmatZ>hehe
08:38<Mchl>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=91603
08:38<Mchl>here's preview of toyland
08:38<EER>it's a lot less straining on the eyes with opengfx
08:39<@SmatZ>:-D
08:39<@Rubidium>EER: ratings are going -60% on a crash
08:39<EER>I'll have to try and avoid the railroad then :D
08:39<@Rubidium>of stations within 22 tiles
08:39<EER>should I add this over here: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_mechanics#Station_rating ?
08:40<@Rubidium>I guess so
08:41<EER>ok, that's why I was confused, I seemed to comply with all demands listed :)
08:41<Doorslammer>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=38094
08:42<Doorslammer>Um, hooray I think
08:42<Doorslammer>Balls, accidentally left an oversized Pikka engine in the PNG :O
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08:42<Doorslammer>Oh well, I shall go cure that now :S
08:43<Neo_>hi i have a problem with new industries and openttd could please someone help me
08:44<@SmatZ>EER: when you add "OpenGFX Infrastructure", maglev will become available, and AI players will try to use it...
08:44<@SmatZ>but there are no maglev trains
08:44<@SmatZ>so all AIs will bankrupt soon
08:44<EER>is that only in toyland, or in every scenario type?
08:44<@SmatZ>EER: tested in your savegame
08:44<+glx>Neo_: just explain your problem
08:45<EER>ok, I won't load it then ;)
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08:45<EER>I can simply buy them out if I'd like, but I enjoy the chaos that is called AI
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08:48<Neo_>I've build a scenario in which I included all the grfs I wanted to use, but when I start the game all the new industries (fish, beer and so on) all the trains with this products don't earn money
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08:50<Doorslammer>Right, posted properly now ;)
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08:56<EER>Rating is not affected by a crashing airplane, I assume this is intentional
08:57<EER>checked by looking for ModifyStationRatingAround in aircraft_cmd.cpp, which is not called, but is in train and roadveh
08:57<EER>So I'll say that 'crashing train' and 'crashing road vehicle' will affect ratings
08:57<@Rubidium>the station is already blocked by the aircraft effectively lowering the rating
08:57<EER>yes, but not in the surrounding 22 (or 30 in the case of trains) tiles
08:58<@Rubidium>true
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08:58<@SmatZ>interesting, I would bet it used to lower rating at airport a lot
08:59<EER>since no planes can land, I think it does lower rating a lot
08:59<EER>unless you have an international airport ofcourse
09:01<EER>updated: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_mechanics#Station_rating if it's wrong somehow let me know and I'll correct it, but I think not :)
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09:14<Doorslammer>More mistakes cured, god blimey
09:14<Doorslammer>Im acting like its amateur hour today
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09:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13598 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix (r13596): regression failed
09:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13599 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_controller.cpp ai_controller.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: AIController::Sleep() should always have a value > 0. Warn people if the value is 0 or lower.
09:37<ln>warn people??
09:37<ln>what a non-openttdnian way.
09:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13600 /branches/noai/ (75 files in 14 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r13508:13599.
09:43<Neo_>could please somebody tell me how is it possible to fish in open TTD
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09:53<Alberth>Neo_: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSAVFishingGrounds is what you are looking for?
09:53<planetmaker>Neo_: you have to load also the fitting vehicle grfs
09:54<Neo_>I play without ecs, so only with the newcargo, and i my case there are only some birds over the finshing ground
09:55<Neo_>and I can't tell the ships to go and fish ;-)
09:56-!-Artamir [~Artamir@89.131.70.102] has joined #openttd
09:57<Artamir>hi
09:57<@SmatZ>hi
09:57<Artamir>someone can helps me
09:57<+glx>Neo_: raise land and build a dock
09:57<Artamir>in spanish train set please?
09:58<Artamir>i want to edit a train
09:58<Artamir>train stats
09:58<Artamir>and put it in electric railway type
09:58<+glx>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Trains
09:59<Neo_>glx_: ok very expansive but I will try, thanks
09:59<Artamir>:S
10:00<Artamir>ok thanks
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10:21<Artamir>I want covered stations set
10:21<Artamir>someone can pass me a link please?
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10:21<eekee>um, try grfcrawler
10:22<Artamir>I'm watching grfcrawler
10:22<Artamir>but
10:22<Artamir>this link
10:22<Artamir>I can't download this
10:22<Artamir>watch
10:22<Artamir>http://www.aegir.bur.st/files/ttd/index.php?dir=Newgrfs/Station%20Sets
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10:22<Artamir>How can I download this grfs?
10:23<eekee>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/
10:23<eekee>ahh
10:23<eekee>hmm
10:23<Artamir>I'm trying ir
10:23*eekee just woke up. Still slow.
10:24<eekee>I would download all the .GRF links
10:24<Artamir>yes but
10:24<Artamir>sprites are...
10:24<Artamir>pink
10:24<Artamir>O_O
10:24<eekee>oh dear :)
10:24<Artamir>OMG
10:24<Artamir>I download
10:24<Artamir>MSDOS
10:24<Artamir>hahahahahahah+ç
10:24<eekee>oh1 hehe
10:24<eekee>ah yes, you want the ones ending in w
10:24<Artamir>thanks
10:25<Artamir>I'm going to try it
10:25<eekee>yw
10:25<eekee>ok
10:25<Artamir>someone speaks spanish?
10:25<eekee>not me, sorry
10:25<Doorslammer>Que?
10:25<Artamir>wow
10:25<Artamir>español?
10:25<Artamir>xD
10:25<Doorslammer>No :P
10:25<Doorslammer>Sorry
10:25<Doorslammer>I can say que though ;)
10:25<Doorslammer>And ole
10:26<Artamir>hahahahahaha
10:26<Doorslammer>But thats about it
10:26<Artamir>I'm from Catalonia
10:26<Doorslammer>Australia
10:26<Artamir>here is not "Ole"
10:26<Artamir>hjahahahah
10:26<Artamir>we speak catalan
10:26<Artamir>we are quite different from the rest of spain
10:26<Doorslammer>Miaow?
10:26<Artamir>:)
10:26<Artamir>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=38091
10:26<Artamir>watch my screenshots
10:27<Doorslammer>Nice
10:27<Artamir>thanks
10:27<Artamir>:D
10:28<EER>interesting scenario, is it up for download somewhere?
10:28<Artamir>not
10:28<Artamir>I do by myself
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10:29<Artamir>I do a Barcelona's model
10:29<EER>how large is it? 1024^2?
10:29<Artamir>not
10:29<Artamir>2k
10:29<EER>:o :D
10:29<Artamir>2000^2
10:29<eekee>whoa
10:29<Artamir>Cities are too small at first
10:29<EER>I'm interested, if you ever upload it somewhere :)
10:30<Artamir>to build infrastructures easier
10:30<Artamir>mmmh okay
10:30<Artamir>I'm going to upload it at the post
10:30<EER>ok :)
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10:37<Artamir>I can't upload it
10:37<Artamir>because it's too big
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10:41<EER>ah well, I'll just check the forums regularly if it's somewhere :)
10:41<EER>right now, I'm off for the day. o/
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10:45<eekee>grfcrawler is flakey today. lots of "can't connect to database" errors
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10:59<planetmaker>Can I deactivate computer players in an existing game?
11:00<eekee>maybe from the console?
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12:14<TiberiusTeng>finally got the palette animation thing done. now's texture atlas ... :D
12:36<@peter1138>texture atlas?
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12:49<TiberiusTeng>combine all the sprites onto one (or few) textures to reduce texture state changes
12:49<@peter1138>ahh
12:49<TiberiusTeng>http://http.download.nvidia.com/developer/presentations/GDC_2004/Dx9Optimization.pdf
12:49<TiberiusTeng>it's the main bottleneck for now ......
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13:06<@peter1138>right
13:07<@peter1138>but how do you organise them into often used texures?
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13:12<TiberiusTeng>I plan to do it in naive way ... create a 2048x2048 texture then put sprites with Encode() ... left to right, top to bottom ...
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13:15<eekee>that would be quicker than texture state changes?
13:15<@peter1138>hardcoded 2048x2048 or find out the biggest the card can do?
13:15<@peter1138>eekee: it could reduce state changes a bit
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13:15<TiberiusTeng>find the card limit & another clipping (I wanna do 4096x2048, my card do support 4096x4096)
13:16<TiberiusTeng>it's some kind of knapsack problem, so I don't think it'll have an optimized algorithm :p
13:16<eekee>oh lol, ok
13:16<TiberiusTeng>but maybe I can sort sprites small-to-large later
13:18<TiberiusTeng>well, it's fine as long as we don't open the highscore chart ... ;)
13:18<eekee>hehe
13:19<TiberiusTeng>there's few huge sprites in there
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13:22<eekee>I noticed some big textures when I unencoded all the original GRFs
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13:40<fjb>Hello
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13:53<mikk36>hey
13:53<@SmatZ>hi
13:53<mikk36>changing difficulty options from console aint possible ?
13:53<+glx>it should be possible in trunk
13:53<@SmatZ>in 0.6.1, not
13:53<@SmatZ>in trunk, yes
13:53<mikk36>damn
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14:24<curson>how comes that no tracks from 4LV is refittable for oil? o_O
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14:27<curson>:(
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14:36<fjb>They should be refittable. In my actual game they are.
14:39<fjb>In which order did you load the GRFs?
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14:43<curson>fjb: they are refittable
14:43<curson>to pretty much everything, excluding oil/fuel
14:43<fjb>That still sounds like GRFs loaded in wrong order.
14:44<curson>no warnings or errors here
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14:45<curson>which GRFs could be responsible?
14:46<curson>"fuel" (example) is introduced by ECS, and 4LV must be loaded after it (and so it is)
14:46<fjb>All. The order is important.
14:46<fjb>Are the ECS GRFs in the correct order?
14:47<curson>ECS town - construction -machinery - wood
14:47<curson>this is my ECS order
14:47<curson>wait... were is the chemical
14:47<curson>-_-
14:48<curson>gotcha, I'm an idiot :p
14:49<curson>tnx fjb
14:49<fjb>Problem fixed. :)
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14:55<ccfreak2k>Sroblem polved.
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14:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13601 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: resize the Tile Info window when it is needed, make it better readable
15:03<fjb>My stupid engineers don't find a new sand pit.
15:06<ccfreak2k>Kill them.
15:12<fjb>Good plan.
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15:30*Sacro wobbles
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16:02<fjb>Hm, some train sets are not made for worlds with lots of water...
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16:28<fjb>They found sand. No need to kill them anymore.
16:32<mikk36>why can't i change some patch options from command line in dedicated server ?
16:33<@Rubidium>because changing those settings causes desyncs
16:42<dih>Rubidium: because the server has a setting change and the clients dont?
16:46<@Rubidium>because they are readable from a newgrf
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16:54<dih>so when they are updated, the grf will not know about it?
16:55<@Rubidium>yup
16:55<dih>but then the server and client should still be in sync, as the servers grf would not know off the change either!
16:55<dih>or would ther be a trigger on the server, notifying the grf of the change?
16:55<@Rubidium>dih: but someone who joins...
16:56<dih>hehe
16:56<dih>true!
16:57<dih>makes sense
16:57<ln>aren't you all supposed to watch football right now?
16:57<dih>so, could grf's have a callback function for that stuff?
16:57<dih>ln: nope
16:57<dih>rubidium does not like football if i am not mistaken
16:57<dih>and i dont really either (though i do watch games where germany plays)
16:58<@Rubidium>dih: and then hope that every NewGRF author handles it properly?
16:58<@Rubidium>seriously not going to happen
16:58<dih>well... no
16:58<ln>i don't either, but i'm assuming everyone but me does.
16:58<dih>not hope they handle it properly
16:58<dih>hmmm
16:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13602 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp: -Codechange: little speedup for 8bpp-optimized blitter
16:59<dih>can the game know if grf's use a certain setting?
17:00*Prof_Frink commits r13603: Correct spelling of "optimised"
17:00<ln>dih: -' -'
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17:01<dih>ln: i really wish i could read your thoughts!
17:01<@SmatZ>Prof_Frink: bin/openttd -h
17:01<valhallasw>Prof_Frink: depends on where you live :)
17:01<dih>i have no idea what you are trying to communicate
17:01<@SmatZ>it is called "8bpp-optimized" so it is correct spelling
17:01<dih>it's UK spelling
17:01<Prof_Frink>valhallasw: No. I'm English, and therefore right.
17:01<Prof_Frink>Everyone else is wrong.
17:01<@SmatZ>even if it was called "8bpp-otpmiziped", it would be correct :-P
17:02<Prof_Frink>SmatZ: Search-and-destroy across the entire checkout.
17:02<@SmatZ>anyway
17:02<@SmatZ>I wonder why there is "optimized" and "color" everywhere in the code
17:03<@SmatZ>when there is no US dev
17:03<Prof_Frink>Because you fail.
17:03<@Rubidium>color is just plain wrong
17:03<@Rubidium>-ize isn't
17:03<valhallasw>america is just plain wrong
17:04<@Rubidium>unless the Oxford English Dictionary is wrong
17:04<dih>has the use of colour and color then been 'united' to color?
17:04<valhallasw>no
17:04<@Rubidium>http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutspelling/ize?view=uk <- optimized is correct British English
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17:04<valhallasw>it should be 'kleur'. every other spelling is wrong
17:05<@SmatZ>Rubidium: nice
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17:06<dih>why on earth is there colour and color in the source?
17:07<@Rubidium>hysterical raisins
17:07<@SmatZ>dih: it used to be "color" everywhere, now it is slowly changing to "colour" :-)
17:08<dih>ah
17:08<dih>that explains :-)
17:16<TiberiusTeng>but why?
17:17<TiberiusTeng>well, forget my question :p
17:17<dih>:-D
17:17<dih>i was just about to respond!
17:18*TiberiusTeng feeding Colour's to glColor3ub()
17:18<dih>:-D
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17:19<Wolfensteijn>richting snackbar, heb trek en niets in huis
17:19<Wolfensteijn><@Floor-is> voetbal is duidelijk Wolfensteijn's ding niet
17:19<Wolfensteijn><Wolfensteijn> niet echt nee :)
17:19<Wolfensteijn>whoops
17:19<Prof_Frink>[FAIL]
17:19<Wolfensteijn>the dutch just lost from the russions
17:20<Wolfensteijn>russians
17:20<Wolfensteijn>damnit!
17:20<Prof_Frink>[FAIL]
17:20*Wolfensteijn really can't type, for some reason
17:20<Prof_Frink>But then, England lost to the kiwis, and England lost to the kiwis.
17:20<Wolfensteijn>heh
17:20*Wolfensteijn isn't a football fan
17:20<Wolfensteijn>not really
17:20<Wolfensteijn>and dutch
17:21<Wolfensteijn>I'm kinda relieved the dutch lost
17:21<Prof_Frink>Wolfensteijn: Neither England loss was football.
17:21<Wolfensteijn>it's gonna be nice and quiet now :)
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18:32<dih>[00:28] >Belugas< as far as i can tell, we have 2 reproducable asserts + no desyncs
18:33<dih>shoot
18:33<@peter1138>in yapp?
18:33<dih>that was not intended....
18:33<dih>yes
18:33*peter1138 points at michi_cc, then
18:33<dih>feedback has already been given in the forums
18:33<dih>i was merely wanting to let Belugas know ;-)
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19:07<mikk36>ohm
19:07<mikk36>why does 0.6.1 stop loading server info ?
19:08<mikk36>in the servers list
19:10<@Rubidium>stop loading? In what way?
19:17<@Rubidium>totally no servers in the list? only IP addresses in the list? only a few servers and the rest IP addresses?
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19:24<Belugas_Gone>hello
19:28<Chrill>yello
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19:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13603 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp:
19:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Feature{newGRF]: Add var 65 in Variational Action 2 Variables for Houses.
19:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: This var will return the manhattan distance of the nearest house that match a given criteria.
19:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: The criterias can be: 0 : house ID/ 1 : Class ID/ 2 : grf ID
19:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: The search radius can be defined too, up to 64.
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20:10<Eddi|zuHause3><dih> can the game know if grf's use a certain setting? <- not if action 6 are involved :p
20:12<ccfreak2k>Oh no!
20:12<ccfreak2k>Not action six!
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20:33<mikk36>Rubidium, last time half were left with ip's
20:33<mikk36>and find servers button doesn't do anything after the first time
20:33<mikk36>it doesn't make the list reload
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21:58<Sacro>how do you build a lock?
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22:03<fjb>Iron ist best for locks. Go, ask a smith.
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