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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-24

---Logopened Tue Jun 24 00:00:11 2008
00:09<ccfreak2k>It would probably also benefit us ATi users if he supported EXT_texture_rectangle.
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02:47<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, it gave you a blackscreen? which ATI card are you using? I would bet the problem's at shader ...
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05:05<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r13618 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs):
05:05<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Codechange: move tar-specific declarations to separate file
05:05<CIA-6>OpenTTD: Removes indirect dependency on <string> and <map> for over 40 files
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05:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r13619 /trunk/src/ (blitter/factory.hpp driver.cpp driver.h):
05:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Codechange: use 'const char *' instead of std::string for blitter and driver names
05:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: Removes indirect dependency on <string> for 20 files, reduces binary size by 16kB
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05:38*TiberiusTeng packing the OpenGL blitter alpha (?) release
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06:12<flowOver>opengl you say?
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06:40<@SmatZ>Bjarni: if you will ever read that :) see commit r12930, NetBSD should be supported
06:40<@SmatZ>@openttd commit 12930
06:40<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by rubidium :: r12930 /trunk (3 files in 3 dirs) (2008-04-30 07:39:46 UTC)
06:40<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Add: build support for NetBSD and HP-UX. Patch by ahoka.
06:43<@SmatZ>"Why not hardware-'accelerated' you say? Because it's not necessarily faster 8) " :-)
06:44<TiberiusTeng>but it do 600fps on my machine 8)
06:44<@SmatZ>oh noes I did svn revert :-x
06:45<Gekz>Lol HP-UX
06:45<Gekz>OpenTTD on a server OS
06:45<@SmatZ>openttd can run as dedicated server :)
06:45<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: it doesn't even start compiling on linux :(
06:46<Noldo>SmatZ: glee?
06:46<TiberiusTeng>it'll need a linux (perhaps X) opengl driver to run on it ...
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06:47*SmatZ downloads glee
06:48<TiberiusTeng>hey wait a sec, you'll need a videodriver to do OpenGL initialization under Linux!
06:48<TiberiusTeng>or if you want to write one :D
06:49<@SmatZ>I have no chance doing that :)
06:50<@SmatZ>mmm I am still missing glu.h
06:50*SmatZ fails :)
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06:51<TiberiusTeng>I remember peter1138 gave me his OpenGL work for SDL earlier ... maybe he knows how to setup OpenGL environment using SDL. But I'm not familiar with SDL :(
06:51<TiberiusTeng>Linux doesn't have glu.h ?
06:51<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: great, now it starts under wine :)
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06:52<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: maybe, maybe in different directory, I don't know
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06:52<TiberiusTeng>wait, it works under WINE ?
06:52<TiberiusTeng>with opengl blitter enabled ?!
06:52<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: ha, "GL/glu.h" and "GLee.h"
06:52<@SmatZ>case sensitive :)
06:52<TiberiusTeng>aha. I'll modify it then.
06:52<@SmatZ>dbg: [GL] Grow Spritebuffer capacity to 32768
06:53<@SmatZ>it seems it runs :)
06:53<TiberiusTeng>could you gimme a screenshot? :D~
06:55<@SmatZ>hehe you don't make animated pixels transparent, so I think it is the opengl blitter
06:55<TiberiusTeng>ahh, it's technically very difficult to do ...
06:55<TiberiusTeng>I'm using the same method as 32bpp-anim blitter.
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06:58<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: don't have hard work with supporting animated pixels with transparency
06:58<@SmatZ>like, animated pixel behind transparent building or transparent animated pixels
06:59<@SmatZ> TiberiusTeng screenshot
06:59<@SmatZ>looks the same as on windows though :)
07:00<TiberiusTeng>ahh, it works :D
07:00<@SmatZ>yeah, and yesterday it wasn't working :)
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07:05<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: 64bit related problems:
07:05<@SmatZ>src/blitter/opengl.cpp:1598: error: cast from 'const byte*' to 'int' loses precision
07:05<ln>does that kind of a cast make sense anyway?
07:06<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: after fixing includes, there are some problems:
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07:06<TiberiusTeng>ok, I'll check it
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07:09<yorick>didn't know stations would actually get the ratings before something arrived on them in TTO
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07:11<Artamir>Algun español?
07:12<Artamir>I have problems with Tortoise SVN with .diff
07:12<yorick>English only please
07:12<Artamir>I select "Apply Patch"
07:12<Artamir>And there are error messages
07:12<yorick>what error messages?
07:12<Artamir>I search it
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07:13<Artamir>"There are still unresolved conflicts at line 1691"
07:13<yorick>have you applied any patches before?
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07:14<yorick>have you also reverted them when updating?
07:14<Artamir>only patches without .diff and .patch
07:14<Artamir>reverted them?
07:14<Artamir>I applied
07:15<Artamir>YAPP partch
07:15<Artamir>before update
07:15<Artamir>with Tortoise
07:15<yorick>and then updated it?
07:15<Artamir>I think
07:15<yorick>possible the area YAPP changes got updated too
07:15<TiberiusTeng>SmatZ, is there a good way to solve the 'format not a string literal' warning ?
07:15<yorick>and tortoise can't find a way to make the changes there have been in trunk
07:16<yorick>then it will say conflict
07:16<Artamir>the tortoise
07:16<Artamir>patches on the OTTD
07:16<Artamir>without patches?
07:16<yorick>it updates ;)
07:16<Artamir>if the folder is patched yet tortoise can not?
07:17<yorick>if there have been any updates on the server, tortoise will try to update it too
07:17<Artamir>i'm confused hahaha
07:17<Artamir>what I have to do?
07:17<yorick>look into the file it errors on
07:17<yorick>and search for .mine
07:17<Noldo>file with that ending
07:18<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: probably not
07:18<yorick>could someone tell him how to resolve conflicts with SVN while I have lunch, thank you :)
07:18<Gekz>I hate trees
07:19<ln>look for a line containing ".mine", then resolve the conflict by editing the file near that line, removing unnecessary things.
07:19<Artamir>I have not idea of C++ or this commands :S
07:19<Artamir>I see
07:19<Artamir>I search it
07:20<Artamir>there are lines with "????????????????????????????????"
07:21<Artamir>I think i did it
07:22<Artamir>i didn't
07:23<blathijs>Artamir: If you did not modify the source yourself, other than applying the YAPP patch, you should just revert all changes (or make a new checkout) and apply the patch on that
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07:24<@SmatZ>and make sure you have downloaded correct SVN revision
07:24<@SmatZ>newest YAPP appliest to r13612
07:24<blathijs>Artamir: And if applying the YAPP patch on a clean checkout does not work, your checkout is probably to new. You should then either get a newer patch or use the "svn update" command to get the revision the patch was made for
07:25<@Rubidium>that for sure isn't a clear checkout
07:25<Artamir>I don't understand
07:26<ln>i suppose Tortoise has an option to update a clean copy
07:26<@SmatZ>and really outdated, it uses old patch structure
07:26<blathijs>Artamir: You can't just apply patches and expect them to work and keep working when you update
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07:26<blathijs>Artamir: You should probably start over (Using the "Revert" feature in tortoise) and then apply the patch(es) you want
07:27<Artamir>revert in tortoise?
07:27<Artamir>I can't
07:27<Artamir>"file list it's empty"
07:28<blathijs>The easier way is just throw away your checkout and make a new one
07:28<blathijs>(or just make a new one beside the old one)
07:28<Artamir>Reinstall OTTD?!
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07:31<@SmatZ>Artamir: using custom patches and combining them needs more or less experience and programming knowledge... when youtry several times, you will learn how to...
07:31<@SmatZ>hmmm he's gone
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07:31<@SmatZ>and he's back
07:31<@SmatZ>Artamir: using custom patches and combining them needs more or less experience and programming knowledge... when you try several times, you will learn how to do anything you want :)
07:32<Artamir>I have not experience
07:32<Artamir>in this
07:32<@SmatZ>but custom patches are not supported by developers, just because of problems you have...
07:32<@SmatZ>so I can tell you only one thing - if you don't want problems, use clean trunk :)
07:33<Artamir>I have to delete
07:33<@SmatZ>there are several "patch packs" at tt-forums, but you will most likely have problems with them
07:33<Artamir>OTTD folder
07:33<@SmatZ>I don't know, it depends what you have in that folder
07:33<Artamir>I backup it
07:33<@SmatZ>o checkout to a new directory
07:34<@SmatZ>but is safe place to download win binaries
07:34<Artamir>I understand it
07:34<Artamir>I'm checking out in a new folder
07:34<Artamir>the clean trunk
07:34<blathijs>That's a good start :-)
07:34<Artamir>and then
07:35<Artamir>I have to patch?
07:35<Artamir>in this clean trunk?
07:35<@SmatZ>try it, if it fails, then it wasn't the best thing to do :-P
07:36<blathijs>Artamir: Yup, and if it fails you can try to change the revision of your clean trunk to match the revision of the patch
07:36<Artamir>the error stills
07:36<@SmatZ>the patch is outdated, you have to use older trunk
07:36<@SmatZ>but for YAPP, you need newer trunk
07:37<@SmatZ>you won't make those two patches work together without further coding
07:37<@SmatZ>ask patch developer to update it :)
07:37<Artamir>too difficult
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07:37<Artamir>for me
07:37<Artamir>I only wanted to apply the "speedlimit" patch
07:37<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13620 /branches/noai/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: foreach() on empty lists gave weird error (bug by Yexo)
07:38<@SmatZ>Artamir: where did you download that patch?
07:39<Artamir>I haven't got the link here
07:39<Artamir>this is the name
07:39<@SmatZ>so checkout revision r10115
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07:40<@SmatZ>I don't know?
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07:40<blathijs>Artamir: Use "update to revision" in Tortoise
07:40<blathijs>Hi Yexo
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07:40<Yexo>hello blathijs
07:41<Yexo>something is wrong with my connection today
07:42<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13621 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp:
07:42<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Fix: building roadbits in the wrong direction on bridges or building roadbits
07:42<CIA-6>OpenTTD: from underneath the bridge to the bridgehead is impossible, so don't silently
07:42<CIA-6>OpenTTD: ignore that error when building over houses and industries is not ignored.
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07:44<Artamir>I think I did it
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07:45<ln>chaleco salvavidas debajo de su asiento
07:45<yorick>ln: english only
07:46<ln>yorick: what if it doesn't sound as good in english?
07:46<Artamir>I didn¡t :S
07:48<@SmatZ>"life jacket is under his seat"?
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07:48<ln>*under your seat
07:49<Artamir>Porque no te callas?
07:49<Artamir>(King to Chavez)
07:49<Artamir>(Why don't you shut up)
07:49<@SmatZ>ln: "tu" ?
07:49<Artamir>tu = you
07:50<ln>and su = You
07:50<ln>correct me if i'm wrong
07:50<ln>SmatZ: ever been in a spanish airplane?
07:50<Artamir>I'm spanish
07:50<ln>we guessed
07:50<@SmatZ>no, "su" is "his"
07:50<@SmatZ>ln: probably
07:51<Artamir>"su" it's possessive
07:51<Artamir>"su chaqueta"
07:51<Artamir>"his jacket"
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07:52<@SmatZ>ah, isn't "su" more "official"?
07:52<ln>SmatZ: tu/su is like german du/Sie, i've been told.
07:52<Artamir>"tu chaqueta" = "your jacket"
07:53<Artamir>"su chaqueta" = "his jacket"
07:53<@SmatZ>ln: seems so :)
07:53<Artamir>in spanish
07:53<Artamir>there are
07:53<Artamir>other pronoum
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07:53<Artamir>"su" acts like "your"
07:53<@SmatZ>"usted" -> "su" ; "tu" -> "tu"
07:53<Artamir>because it's "usted"
07:53<ln>Artamir: what would be "here is Your jacket, sir"?
07:53*SmatZ found his notebook from Spanish classes :)
07:54<Artamir>"usted" is more ...
07:54<ln>(very politely)
07:54<Artamir>"Aqui esta su chaqueta, caballero"
07:55<Artamir>sir = "caballero", "señor"..
07:55<ln>aha, see, he said "su".
07:55<Artamir>(caballero it's for men=
07:55<yorick>how far goes the openttd support for neutral stations?
07:55<yorick>I know oil rigs can have one
07:56<@SmatZ>yorick: from oil rigs to buoys :-P
07:56<yorick>only ships and aircraft?
07:56<@SmatZ>I don't know about any newgrf support
07:56<ln>airports should definitely be "neutral".
07:57*yorick hacks airport toolbar into scenario editor
08:00<yorick>that's a oneliner ;)
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08:01<ln>yorick: does it work that easily?
08:01<yorick>most likely not
08:02*ln demands screenshots
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08:04<yorick>ok, it's most likely a twoliner
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08:07<yorick>I got the toolbar+gui, but it doesn't really like neutral airports so far
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08:10<yorick>adding a town might help tho
08:14<Noldo>yorick: what are you doing?
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08:14<yorick>hacking airports into the scenario editor
08:15<yorick>just to prove ln it is possible
08:17<yorick>just I don't think that it'll work without tracksharing
08:17<yorick>but with tracksharing I just ran a plane into that airport
08:17<yorick>but maybe...the oilrig support and so
08:17<ln>planes on tracks, cool
08:18<Noldo>more like infrasharing
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08:18<yorick>you can't build anything without the tracksharing patch, I think
08:19<yorick>on that airport*
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08:42<dragonhorseboy>how're you?
08:42<yorick>I'm fine, you?
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08:43<dragonhorseboy>doing okay yorick
08:43<dragonhorseboy>just trying to figure out car tires (for real) .. go figure :p
08:43<dragonhorseboy>otherwise not doing much
08:44<yorick>I'm trying to figure out airports in the scenario editor( )
08:44<fjb>Tires are usually round und you usually need at least four for a car.
08:44<yorick>and trucks usually have about 8
08:45<dragonhorseboy>what you trying to figure out out of curiousity?
08:45<dragonhorseboy>fjb....I meant a lot more than that :p
08:45<fjb>Oh, is there?
08:45<yorick>if players can use neutral airports without the tracksharing patch
08:46<dragonhorseboy>fjb I'm curious about if its possible to find something that can handle slight muddy access roads while still being fair enough for typical 110km/h highways altogether
08:46<fjb>Oh 110km/h is slow.
08:47<dragonhorseboy>yorick ah hmm good luck I'll like to hear how it goes ^-^
08:47<dragonhorseboy>nope its not
08:48<dragonhorseboy>btw yorick interesting waterlevel island there either way :p
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08:48<Gekz>neutral airports
08:48<Gekz>that's something I've considered
08:49<Gekz>but deemed stupid
08:49<Gekz>you could literally thunderpwn it with planes
08:49<@SmatZ>stop one airport at runway and block the airport forever
08:50<Gekz>this game could do with a cleanup script
08:50<Gekz>"Plane towed."
08:50<dragonhorseboy>smatz...thats breaking the rule on many servers ;)
08:50<Gekz>"Truck crushed due to inactivity"
08:50<dragonhorseboy>unless its one of these deathmatch one (which I've never seen for a long time oddly enough)
08:50<yorick>someone suggested a talking paperclip called Tee Tee
08:50<yorick>scanning the game for such things
08:51<@SmatZ>dragonhorseboy: hehe, you are right :)
08:51<dragonhorseboy>and which of I'm just curious about it anyhow but....
08:51<dragonhorseboy>is there actually anything happening toward more custom airports or its still dead for the time being yet?
08:52<yorick>I don't like talking paperclips watching me or whatever I'm doing
08:52<yorick>and even falling asleep if you don't talk to it
08:52<fjb>I don't like talking paperclips at all.
08:52<yorick>talking wizards?
08:52<fjb>Not really.
08:52<@SmatZ>I don't like talking abything at my computer
08:53<@SmatZ>paperclip, any stupid asistant
08:53<yorick>Tee Tee ~(
08:53<@SmatZ>that "What do you want to search today?" doggie in Win XP
08:53<@SmatZ>that's just stupid
08:53<yorick>but I noticed that TTO has a tutorial mode
08:53<yorick>showing you how to build a railway
08:54<TiberiusTeng>ahh ... scaling problem. this will make me headache ... but not now ;)
08:54<yorick>that's no ingame tutorial mode with self-moving-mouse
08:54<fjb>Hm, why are road vehicles not refitable to any cargo when the first part can not carry any cargo? Is that because the test in line 2056 of roadveh_cmd.cpp?
08:55<@SmatZ>fjb: FS#2105
08:55<fjb>SmatZ: Thank you. I will look at that.
08:55<dragonhorseboy>I guess its dead then? (re airports)
08:56<+glx>dragonhorseboy: what do you mean with custom airports?
08:56<@SmatZ>dragonhorseboy: for me, yes
08:56<@SmatZ>maybe if ever infrastructure sharing will be implemented
08:57<yorick>the neutral airports work without tracksharing
08:57<yorick>just you can't use their depots
08:57<yorick>and you can with tracksharing
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08:58<dragonhorseboy>glx hmm let me find one thread to show you one moment
08:58<yorick>I think he means newgrfports
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09:00<fjb>SmatZ: So it is possible to refit the vehicle when the grf states the possible cargos even if the amount is 0?
09:01<@SmatZ>fjb: I don't know, it shouldn't be
09:01<@SmatZ>don't ask me :)
09:01<fjb>Ok. Whom may I ask?
09:02<@SmatZ>maybe Rubidium, he replied in that FS, probably he knows the most :)
09:02<dragonhorseboy>forgot which thread I had picked the diff out of but this thread has similar screenshot of the same one airport tho:
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09:03<dragonhorseboy>hope that helped for now glx
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09:22<dragonhorseboy>glx ?
09:26<dragonhorseboy>hm I'll just assume dead then and troubleshoot the diff errors myself :/
09:28<flowOver>so hello. i haven't coded c++ for the better part of a decade and all i've done was a very succesful tetris clone with oop as a HS final proj. i've peddled with php since then. any room for somone of my experience to help?
09:41<+glx>dragonhorseboy: it's still WIP
09:42<dragonhorseboy>ah ok
09:42<dragonhorseboy>guess I'll just ignore the minor passable bugs then in case it already gets fixed later on
09:42<dragonhorseboy>thanks anyhow glx
09:45<dragonhorseboy>glx if you don't mind me asking you anyhow...
09:46<dragonhorseboy>what did you think of the diagonal road crossing concept?
09:47<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13622 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2109]: only the front of a RV would be considered when determining to what cargos a vehicle can be refitted instead of all cargos.
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09:49<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13623 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Codechange: only show the 'load' of articulated RV parts that have a capacity instead of showing 'empty' parts when a vehicle is completely full.
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09:55<ln>A fix is not a codechange?
09:55<ln>What is a commit by default?
09:56<@SmatZ>ln: you have too many questions
09:56<dragonhorseboy>glx one of the airport I kinda like for some reason is that thin&long one (two runaways almost lined up with each others) ... kinda fun to place that on a wide cliff or so where it would had otherwise required way too much trees destorying to ever build even a commuter/city airport next to the very town
09:56<TiberiusTeng>SmatZ, which display chard are you using ?
09:56<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: GF8600GT or so
09:57<TiberiusTeng>ok, so it's also an NV card ...
09:57<dragonhorseboy>but of course if its still a current WIP I'll just stay quiet and wait for till non-diff players finally can play it as well
09:57<TiberiusTeng>bokkie posted in the forum said X1950PRO only gives a black screen ...
09:58*dragonhorseboy has one nvidia and one 3dfx .. not counting onboard gpu of laptop & other desktop yet
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09:59<dragonhorseboy>(bonus if you even actually knew what 3dfx was heh)
09:59<TiberiusTeng>don't even think about running it with Voodoo 1. :p
09:59<TiberiusTeng>Glide is ... well, GL lite
10:00<Gekz>Glide rocks
10:02<dragonhorseboy>gekz...yeah if you can find some actual screenshots you'll be surprised at how many games actually looked better on glide than at-the-time directx ;)
10:02<dragonhorseboy>descent2 and tomb raider especially
10:02<Gekz>oh dude
10:02<Gekz>so much better
10:02<Gekz>but now...
10:03<Gekz>my r key is dying
10:03<dragonhorseboy>and tiberius... voodoo1's are difficult to find in non-shelf-displaying condition .. seem there's something with their age that is making many of them not work well anymore
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10:03<dragonhorseboy>but voodoo2's still works well if you want to use them tho for some reason
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10:09<dragonhorseboy>hey mchl
10:09<dragonhorseboy>gekz and tiberius if you two don't mind me asking -- what graphic card(s) you have now?
10:09<TiberiusTeng>NV 7600GT
10:09<Gekz>dare I list
10:09<Gekz>SiS something old PCI
10:09<TiberiusTeng>Intel 855GME
10:09<Gekz>Voodoo3 8MB onboard
10:09<dragonhorseboy>gekz no agp slots?
10:09<Gekz>nVidia 7300GS
10:09<Gekz>dragonhorseboy: none, in any computer
10:10<Gekz>ATi x300 Radeon
10:10<dragonhorseboy>gekz..wait...are you sure that voodoo3 is onboard?
10:10<Gekz>dragonhorseboy: google "Bora Pro"
10:10<Gekz>use the quotes
10:12<dragonhorseboy>damn...where you located?
10:14<dragonhorseboy>hrm gekz not to sound crazy but do you still use that particular board at time?
10:15<Gekz>you can buy it should you want it
10:16<Gekz>SmatZ: no u
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10:18<dragonhorseboy>gekz hmm well does it have any cards installed or all pci/isa slots are empty?
10:18<Gekz>it has a Geforce 64mb PCI
10:18<Gekz>and a LAN pci
10:18<Gekz>its a shitty mobo
10:19<Gekz>processor can run with no fan
10:20<dragonhorseboy>sounds like you have a 233-400mhz one then
10:21<dragonhorseboy>for these are easily fanless (even although they keep coming with fans attached for some reason)
10:21<dragonhorseboy>either way gekz would you be willing to ship it like motherboard+ram only if I asked? (if you wanted the ram, keep them then)
10:24<Gekz>dragonhorseboy: the ram is shit, so ok
10:24<Gekz>how much are you talking here?
10:26<dragonhorseboy>well I thought that the board alone couldn't be too big an inside-wrapped box anyhow (and the ram can be left in the dimm slots since they're too small to cause much inertia) ;)
10:26<dragonhorseboy>how much? hmmm good question .. do you know how much ram its got?
10:26<Gekz>a 128MB stick and a 64MB stick
10:26<Gekz>afaik 100MHz and 66MHz
10:27<dragonhorseboy>hm is that at least pc100/133?
10:27<Gekz>pc100 and pc66
10:27<dragonhorseboy>ah hm 66mhz .. not much worth
10:27<Gekz>I know
10:27<Gekz>I didnt pay for it
10:27<Gekz>found it on the oad
10:27<dragonhorseboy>do you perhaps know which one was the pc66 one?
10:27<Gekz>that ram stick I mean
10:27<Gekz>not the whole system
10:27<Eddi|zuHause3>man... i have to improve my mirror-reading skills
10:27<Gekz>of couse.
10:27<Gekz>excuse my spelling, my r key is broken
10:28<dragonhorseboy>so....which one? :P
10:28<Eddi|zuHause3>i just drove on the road, behind me was a truck, and the country code looked like "JP", and i was like "wtf? a truck from japan?"
10:28<Gekz>the 64mb stick
10:28<Gekz>the lesser stick
10:28<Eddi|zuHause3>then i realized that i was looking through a mirror, and it actually said "PL"
10:28<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: hahaha
10:29<dragonhorseboy>eddi lol :p
10:29<dragonhorseboy>gekz...hmm tell you what how about discard that 64mb one .. I could take the board + 128mb pc100 for hmm perhaps $20aud+shipping?
10:29<dragonhorseboy>just a first offering
10:30<Gekz>that offer makes me want to cry
10:30<Gekz>I reckon shipping would be more expensive than anything else
10:30<Gekz>why do you want it?
10:30<Gekz>shipping is expensive -_-
10:31<dragonhorseboy>whats your postal code?
10:32<Eddi|zuHause3>you should know that trucks from poland are not that uncommon in germany
10:34<+glx>like SP and NL in france ;)
10:35<dragonhorseboy>gekz well I'm sure that its not expensive to ocean-ship it considering australia is straight across ocean from west canada :p
10:35<Gekz>dragonhorseboy: you'd be surprised lol
10:35<TiberiusTeng>those good old days ... TTO on a 486 + 8MB RAM
10:36<dragonhorseboy>gekz...what? :p
10:36<dragonhorseboy>gekz mind pm for a moment?
10:36<dragonhorseboy>tiberius..well ttdx could run on that too and I think you could get away with using the patch as well (just might have to add more ram and/or use -lowmemory flag I think)
10:37<@Rubidium>TiberiusTeng: OTTD runs on a Nintendo DS, which has a whopping 4 MB of RAM (which includes the binary)
10:37<TiberiusTeng>Rubidium :D
10:37<@Rubidium>okay, it is dual processor
10:38<@Rubidium>arm7 @ 33 MHz and arm9 @ 67 MHz
10:38<Gekz>Rubidium: does it have a kernel?
10:38<Gekz>like, to boot into RAM?
10:38<@Rubidium>no idea
10:38<Gekz>or what.
10:38<Gekz>I see.
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10:38<Gekz>so how much workable ram do you have that you know of
10:39<@Rubidium>no idea either
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10:39<+glx>memory access in DS are weird
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10:39<+glx>IIRC some part of memory can be accessed 16bits by 16bits
10:40<+glx>but ask dominik if you have more questions about the DS
10:48<Eddi|zuHause3><SmatZ> "usted" -> "su" ; "tu" -> "tu" <- i learned that in spain practically nobody uses the "usted" form, only in really formal meetings, opposed to german, where you would say "Sie" to any stranger >14 years
10:48<yorick>why does GetValidAirports have a 32 bit mask where only 9 bits are used?
10:49<+glx>yorick: think about future
10:49<yorick>think about expanding it later then
10:49<@Rubidium>because C doesn't know a 9 bits datastructure?
10:49<yorick>it does know 16 bits
10:50<+glx>and use 32bits for that
10:50<Eddi|zuHause3>which it silently extends to 32bit for alignment purposes anyway
10:50<ln>what modern architecture supports 16-bit integers? ...
10:50<yorick>I don't care about that one
10:50<Eddi|zuHause3>or 64bit, depending on architecture
10:51<yorick>9 booleans then?
10:51<Eddi|zuHause3>which are 9x32bit?
10:51<yorick>afaik, a boolean is 1 bit?
10:51<@Rubidium>and uint32 takes less finger movement than uint16
10:51<@SmatZ>Rubidium: bitfield? int a:9; ?
10:52<Eddi|zuHause3>yorick: in your dreams
10:52<@SmatZ>ahh ok :)
10:52<@Rubidium>and int a:9 is still 32 bits
10:52<@Rubidium>just bits 9-31 can contain garbage
10:52<@SmatZ>true true :)
10:53<yorick>at least it can be useful garbage
10:53<ln>yorick: you know, boolean algebras exist for domains greather than just {0,1}. (which has nothing to do with this subject.)
10:53<yorick>I don't care about that
10:53<yorick>I don't care about booleans that can be both 1 and 0 at the time too
10:53<Eddi|zuHause3>yorick: ALL variables are aligned to 32/64 bit
10:54<Eddi|zuHause3>even 1 bit "booleans"
10:54<yorick>stupid }|
10:54<Eddi|zuHause3>only exception are packed structs
10:54<yorick>9 booleans in a packed struct?
10:54<Eddi|zuHause3>yorick: it's not stupid, accessing an unaligned variables take several magnitudes longer to access
10:55<TiberiusTeng>SGIS_generate_mipmap ... zooming out case closed heh
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10:55<yorick>mipmap :D
10:55<EightBot>is there a way of preventing industries fomr closing down? e.g. is there a setting for that?
10:56<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: not true
10:56<Eddi|zuHause3>like "get 32-bit word from ram to register 1; generate imm32 mask in register 2; AND register 1 and 2 into register 1; shift register 1"
10:56<@SmatZ>variables are usually aligned in such a way that the alignment as the same as variable lenght
10:56<EightBot>i find it annoying that so many industries close down
10:56<@SmatZ>uint16 is aligned at 2B
10:57<@SmatZ>char is aligned to 1B
10:57<Eddi|zuHause3>that's 4 instructions where 1 would suffice for 32-bit alignment
10:57<TiberiusTeng>well not that easy >_<
10:57<yorick>EightBot: probably you can patch it up
10:57<Eddi|zuHause3>SmatZ: you mean left alignment vs. right alignment?
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10:57<Eddi|zuHause3>SmatZ: which would differ at big/little endian?
10:57<@SmatZ>I doubt it would differ, do you have any example?
10:58<@SmatZ>what does endianness to do with alignment?
10:59<Eddi|zuHause3>on little-endian, you can interpret a 32-bit register as 16-bit by ignoring the right 16 bits
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10:59<Eddi|zuHause3>SmatZ: possibly i just misunderstood what you meant
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11:00<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: probably, my English isn't that good :-)
11:01<Eddi|zuHause3>mainly i meant that big and little endians must ignore different sets of bits
11:01<@SmatZ>still, you can take "lower" 2B from 4B variable by reading bytes at address +2
11:02<EightBot>is there a way of preventing industries fomr closing down?
11:02<Eddi|zuHause3>that looks awfully platform specific to me
11:03<@SmatZ>uint16 a,b;
11:03<+glx>I remember nice bugs due to boolean being 'different' on BE and LE
11:03<@SmatZ>will be places at offsets 0,2
11:03<Eddi|zuHause3>not only big/little endian problems
11:03<@SmatZ>in a struct
11:03<@SmatZ>on both BE and LE machines
11:03<Eddi|zuHause3>but also from which side the addresses "grow"
11:04<Eddi|zuHause3>SmatZ: i would never trust this kind of pointer arithmetics
11:05<Eddi|zuHause3>but i'm a too high level computer scientist for that :p
11:05<@SmatZ>you have given ABI, and all compilers have to keep the same alignment rules in structs
11:06<@SmatZ>but sure, if ABI says that all variables have to be 64bit aligned, then everything will be aligned in that way
11:06<@SmatZ>glx: savegame problems :)
11:06<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, of course you can rely on the ABI, but it'll be a porting nightmare once the ABI changes
11:07<@SmatZ>I am not saying you should rely on these rules
11:07<@SmatZ>[16:54:02] <Eddi|zuHause3> yorick: ALL variables are aligned to 32/64 bit <== but this is not true
11:08<Eddi|zuHause3>and i am saying i _would_ not rely on it
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11:26<@SmatZ>ok :)
11:31<dih># na na na na na na na hey hey hey
11:32<@SmatZ>I don't watch Euro anymore :-/
11:32<@SmatZ>as we are out...
11:33<dih>cheer for germany
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11:39<Doorslammer>*cheers for the Netherlands, believing an upset is in order :P
11:39<Doorslammer>Stranger things have happened
11:40<Doorslammer>If Max Mosley ever run football...
11:40<Doorslammer>Everyone would get a 10 second penalty and the Italians would always win
11:58<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13624 /trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2106]: crash when one tries to raise the nothern corner of MP_VOID tiles (i.e. the southern corner of the tiles on the southern map edge) in the scenario editor.
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12:04<yorick>Bjarni: I have some troubles with autoreplace trying to replace an aircraft that's on a neutral hangar
12:04<yorick>lets say it gives you the money, but never takes it back
12:04<yorick>while you can't build anything there
12:05<@Bjarni>post a bug report
12:05<@Bjarni>with a savegame
12:05<yorick>problem is that the bug is'nt technically in trunk
12:05<yorick>because one can't build neutral hangars
12:06<@Bjarni>I was thinking "did anybody commit that without me noticing it" :)
12:06<yorick>now to go to dinner
12:06<@Bjarni>you shouldn't order me around
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12:17<flowOver>am i insane to be crawling through the code with eclipse?
12:17<TiberiusTeng>try doing this with grep/find/vim
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12:22<Eddi|zuHause3><yorick> Bjarni: I have some troubles with autoreplace trying to replace an aircraft that's on a neutral hangar <-- add an assert ;)
12:24<Eddi|zuHause3><dih> cheer for germany <--
12:25<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: he used a modified source. It will not happen in trunk
12:25<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: yes, which is why you should add an assert instead of a "fix"
12:25<Eddi|zuHause3>in case it is at any future time possible to have neutral hangars ;)
12:26<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, around?
12:26<@Bjarni>if that happens odds are that I already finished my current work on autoreplace
12:26<@Bjarni>in which case the assert would no longer be needed
12:26<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, yes?
12:26<ccfreak2k>Stand by.
12:26<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean that is exactly what asserts are useful for
12:27<Eddi|zuHause3>alerting people of preconditions
12:30<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, I get the usual black screen with my ATi card, plus this in the debug window:
12:30<TiberiusTeng>I don't have ATI cards around so probably can't help
12:30<TiberiusTeng>hmm ... I think the ATI driver doesn't like my shader source :p
12:30<ccfreak2k>Also, I noticed you use EXT_texture_non_power_of_two when available.
12:31<TiberiusTeng>it makes almost no difference for now
12:32<TiberiusTeng>but lacking the shader could result in black screen, yes
12:32<TiberiusTeng>which card are you using?
12:32<ccfreak2k>ATi Radeon X850 XT PE.
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12:39<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, can you compile the patch yourself ?
12:39<ccfreak2k>I did.
12:39<ccfreak2k>That's how I got it to work.
12:39<ccfreak2k>Well, "work" as in "didn't crash on startup".
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12:40<TiberiusTeng>I'm editing opengl.cpp to make it display fragment program error string, hold on ...
12:45<TiberiusTeng>replace blitter/opengl.cpp with this one, compile, and see what message it displays after startup
12:48<ccfreak2k>Compiling threw a bunch of errors.
12:51*glx slaps firefox
12:51<TiberiusTeng>are you using my latest patch ?
12:52<ccfreak2k>I used the one you linked to last night, plus some of glx's changes.
12:52<TiberiusTeng>the .hpp seems mismatch
12:52<TiberiusTeng>please use this one instead
12:53<ccfreak2k>This one right?
12:54<TiberiusTeng>no, not that one, check the thread
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13:08<ccfreak2k>More fixing.
13:08<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, you have the DirectX SDK installed, right?
13:09<Eddi|zuHause3>no, he removed that part
13:09<ccfreak2k>Well I get dmksctrl.h missing from dmusic.cpp.
13:10<Eddi|zuHause3>i can't say anything about that...
13:12<+glx>ccfreak2k: did you remove DIRECT_MUSIC define in project?
13:13<ccfreak2k>Wait no it's still there.
13:15<TiberiusTeng>I didn't touch that part in the new patch, but I don't have DirectX SDK installed either ...
13:16<+glx>he's using VS8
13:17<TiberiusTeng>ahh change the header prototype
13:17<TiberiusTeng>I was experimenting some mipmap work
13:18<ccfreak2k>Ok where am I changing it.
13:19<ccfreak2k>It appears once in the header: GLuint CreateTexture2D();
13:19<TiberiusTeng>GLuint CreateTexture2D(bool interpolate = false);
13:19<TiberiusTeng>find CreateTexture2D in the .hpp and replace with this one
13:20<ccfreak2k>I have to add the dependencies to the vcproj AGAIN.
13:27<+glx>will be easier to install DX ;)
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13:29<Scaevolus>Is there a more extensive "Cargo Payment Rates" chart? Or does it just scale linearly up with distance?
13:30<Swallow>it scales linearly with distance, yes
13:30<Scaevolus>when it measure distance, is that station distance, or distance between the resources?
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13:30<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, do I still need to pass the -v switch?
13:31<Swallow>I think manhattan distance between statinos
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13:31<Swallow>not sure though
13:31<Swallow>you may be interested in this patch... *searches*
13:32<TiberiusTeng>glx, what's the advantage of dmusic driver anyway ?
13:32<TiberiusTeng>the roland wavetable of dmusic ?
13:33<TiberiusTeng>cargo payment formulas here
13:33<Scaevolus>Swallow: I guess I'll just dig around in the source to find the algorithms
13:35<TiberiusTeng>Error string: line 2: invalid option name
13:35<TiberiusTeng>remove the printf("(%3d, %3d)... in DoEncode
13:36<TiberiusTeng>and comment out the line "OPTION ARB_precision_hint_fastest;"
13:36<TiberiusTeng>there are four such OPTION's
13:36<TiberiusTeng>goddamn it's in specifications
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13:40<ccfreak2k>I'm not an OpenGL programmer. D:
13:40<Swallow>I have a coding question regarding a patch I'm working on...
13:40<Swallow>I have some arrays that have to be accessible from DrawOrderString() and the OrdersWindow struct...
13:40<Swallow>where should I define them?
13:43<Scaevolus>what revision is svn at?
13:43<Scaevolus>13k... wow
13:46<dih>Swallow: what files are those functions in?
13:46<Swallow>both in order_gui.cpp
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13:47<dih>why dont you use another variable as an example?
13:48<Swallow>there are none AFAIK
13:48<TiberiusTeng>ahh ... the new graph window ...
13:48<TiberiusTeng>perhaps I should clean up
13:48<TiberiusTeng>but I have a report to do 12 hours later >_<
13:49<dih>you only need the variable in that file?
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13:50<Swallow>Should I just define it there?
13:51<dih>have a look at network/network.cpp
13:51<dih>(first file that comes to mind)
13:52<Swallow>k thanks, i'll look at it
13:52<TiberiusTeng>what, you commented out OPTION ARB_precision_hint_fastest and it still complains for OPTION ARB_draw_buffers ?!
13:53<yorick>Bjarni: I only used a modified source to generate the map, but it's normally playable on trunk, EXCEPT FOR THAT AUTOREPLACE OF YOURS
13:53<ccfreak2k>/ "OPTION ARB_precision_hint_fastest;"
13:53<ccfreak2k>// "OPTION ARB_precision_hint_fastest;"
13:53<ccfreak2k>That rather.
13:53<ccfreak2k>And I commented out the printf() line.
13:54<ccfreak2k>So yes my guess is that it claims ARB_draw_buffers is an invalid option.
13:54-!-Pikka is now known as Pikka|afk
13:55<TiberiusTeng>ARB_draw_buffers was originally ATI_draw_buffers! and the card claims supporting it in PostDriverInit() ...
13:55<ccfreak2k>I'm gonna run ext-checker just in case.
13:55<TiberiusTeng>how about changing ARB_draw_buffers to ATI_draw_buffers ?
13:55<Scaevolus>is there a commandline utility to extract metadata from grf files?
13:56<TiberiusTeng>if this still fails ... I would suggest you go get an GeForce 6100 or such, I believe it's only ~usd $30 for now
13:56<TiberiusTeng>and ditch that ATI one
13:57<ccfreak2k>Plus I don't get a black screen anymore, although some pixels are a bit messed up.
13:57<yorick>Bjarni: I think CmdBuildAircraft doesn't technically fail without a valid tile
13:57<TiberiusTeng>ahh. passed. great. !@#$%^&*()) ATI
13:58<TiberiusTeng>messed pixels ? how about a screenshot ?
13:58<ccfreak2k>Gotta love those vendor-specific extensions.
13:58<TiberiusTeng>I wonder if you're using a very-old driver?
13:59<ccfreak2k>If by "very old" you mean "two months old max", no.
13:59<TiberiusTeng>ATI_draw_buffers got promoted to OpenGL ARB extensions I believe ...
13:59<TiberiusTeng>goddamn ATI
14:00<ccfreak2k>EVEREST shows ARB_draw_buffers as supported.
14:01-!-Osai is now known as Osai`off
14:01<TiberiusTeng>yes, the card claims it does support, but it don't like OPTION ARB_draw_buffers; in the shader
14:01-!-ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
14:01<TiberiusTeng>which is defined in ARB_draw_buffers standard ....
14:04<TiberiusTeng>so ... ccfreak2k, you're playing it right now? :p
14:04<ccfreak2k>I'm uploading the screenshot.
14:05<Scaevolus>opengl rendering openttd?
14:05<ccfreak2k>The pixels that are "out of place" will change, as if they were in some animated palette or if they were transparent.
14:05<TiberiusTeng>ahh. I think ATI have unique ways of interpreting texture coordinates ...
14:06-!-gregor_ [] has joined #openttd
14:06<Scaevolus>are you using the 2d acceleration bits of opengl?
14:06<TiberiusTeng>actually 3D
14:06<TiberiusTeng>drawing quads on a flat surface ...
14:06<Scaevolus>oh, well there's your problem
14:06<gregor_>is there any roadmap, what you want to include to openttd?
14:06<TiberiusTeng>orthgonally projected on screen
14:07<Scaevolus>should really be using 2d, not quads
14:07<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, you can try to mess with PARAM constants, and TexCoordScale
14:07<ccfreak2k>I can, but I'd probably break something in the process.
14:07<TiberiusTeng>the 2d pipeline is actually MUCH slower on my card
14:08<Scaevolus>...but isn't this just a replacement for the blitter?
14:08<TiberiusTeng>the commented (val + 0.5f) / total ... and changing PARAM constants = { 1, 0.00195, 0, 0 }; ... something like that
14:09<TiberiusTeng>it is a blitter ...
14:10<TiberiusTeng>you can try yourself, glDrawPixels - glReadPixels - glDrawPixels again is much more slower than drawing a texture-mapped quad, glTexSubImage2D, then draw another quad ...
14:11<Scaevolus>sure, the 3d pipeline is more optimized
14:11<Scaevolus>but I doubt you would be pushing the 2d pipeline anyways
14:11<TiberiusTeng>it was something like 15fps vs 60fps in my experiment (I forgot to turn off VSync then) ...
14:12<TiberiusTeng>so I sticked to 3D pipeline and did some batching
14:12<TiberiusTeng>anyway now I know it's always a bad idea to support ATI cards ...
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14:13<TiberiusTeng>ah. ccfreak2k, check CreateTexture2D() in opengl.cpp
14:13<TiberiusTeng>change that GL_LINEAR to GL_NEAREST (disable interpolation) and see how it goes)
14:13<Scaevolus>oh hahahaha
14:13<Scaevolus>if that was the problem ;)
14:14<TiberiusTeng>if you did changed TexCoordScale() or PARAM constants, change them back ...
14:14<TiberiusTeng>I don't think so, actually ...
14:14<ccfreak2k>I didn't change them.
14:14<TiberiusTeng>it won't do harm on 7600GT nor i855GME ...
14:15<ccfreak2k>Colors issue still there.
14:15<Scaevolus>can't you just set sdl to use opengl?
14:15<TiberiusTeng>yes it can
14:15<TiberiusTeng>but I don't know SDL ...
14:15<TiberiusTeng>so I modified win32v instead
14:16<Scaevolus>oh heh
14:16<ccfreak2k>The color issue only afflicts specific colors.
14:17<Scaevolus>because if you just changed sdl, it should magically work on all platforms
14:17<ccfreak2k>For example, roadway dividers scroll red and orange.
14:17<TiberiusTeng>peter1138 did changed sdl_v to support OpenGL before, he even gave me the diff
14:17<TiberiusTeng>but I really don't know how to modify/test it to fit my current situation
14:18<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, yes, it's some kind of texture-coordinate rounding
14:21<TiberiusTeng>the texture coordinate just 'touched' the place where the card thinks it's boundary between two colors
14:21<TiberiusTeng>hence the color flickering
14:22<TiberiusTeng>check if you forced texture interpolation in the driver
14:22<ccfreak2k>This happens when panning.
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14:25<ccfreak2k>I turned off all of the optimizations I could find, and I still get the color thingy.
14:25<TiberiusTeng>ahh I give up, it don't even do glReadBuffer/glDrawBuffer/glTexSubImage2D well ......
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14:27<ccfreak2k>I changed it to GL_LINEAR and it's all trippy.
14:27<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, go to ScrollBuffer() and try replace all GL_RGBA in it to GL_RGBA8 and see how it works?
14:27<TiberiusTeng>you can't interpolate between palette indexes!
14:28<ccfreak2k>Oh but I did!
14:29<ccfreak2k>What change am I looking for with GL_RGBA8?
14:30<TiberiusTeng>only in ScrollBuffer()
14:30<ccfreak2k>Well yeah.
14:30<ccfreak2k>I meant visually.
14:30<ccfreak2k>I aleady made the changes.
14:30<TiberiusTeng>correct panning of the map
14:30<ccfreak2k>That's even worse.
14:31-!-[1]BigBoss is now known as BigBoss
14:31<ccfreak2k>Also, it doesn't like being resized.
14:33<TiberiusTeng>resizing isn't a problem on i855/7600gt ...
14:33-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:33<TiberiusTeng>perhaps I should go purchase some ATI card and spend time debugging, or just rename it to nvogl.cpp/non-ati-opengl.cpp
14:33<ccfreak2k>I can resize the window fine, but if I choose a pre-baked resolution in options, the screen goes black.
14:33-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
14:34<TiberiusTeng>ahh. that could be a bug. I'll check it later
14:34<ccfreak2k>Alternatively, you can just code for "everyone else" and someone could maintain an ATi patch.
14:35<ccfreak2k>glGenProgramsARB (sprite) still emits "invalid operation".
14:35-!-dR3x4cK [] has joined #openttd
14:36<TiberiusTeng>I think the error flag is left by some earlier OpenGL calls, I didn't add CheckGLError() for every functions ...
14:38<ccfreak2k>pngcrushing screenshot.
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14:41<ccfreak2k>All instances of GL_RGBA replaced with GL_RGBA8 in ScrollBuffer().
14:43<TiberiusTeng>hmm ... so the buffer copying completely fails ...
14:43<TiberiusTeng>the white region should be 'copied' from previous frame, and the blitter would only draw 'new' parts
14:43<TiberiusTeng>i.e. those vertical bands
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14:48<@Bjarni>now this looks interesting... are you guys trying to get a full openGL implementation working?
14:49<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng is trying to make an opengl blitter.
14:49<TiberiusTeng>it depends on what you mean by 'full OpenGL implementation' :p
14:49<ccfreak2k>And, well, it works, so long as you don't have ATi hardware.
14:49<TiberiusTeng>I just want ATI card owners can see what NV card owners see now
14:49<TiberiusTeng>Bjarni, I believe you already see that thread ... :p
14:50<@Bjarni>and maybe not
14:50<@Bjarni>because I have been quite busy lately
14:50<TiberiusTeng> and I could already play it fast on the opengl blitter
14:51<@Bjarni> <ccfreak2k> And, well, it works, so long as you don't have ATi hardware. <-- it will not be accepted if you leave some poor souls behind without suppport
14:51<@Bjarni>specially if one of those poor souls is me ;)
14:52-!-ben_goodger [] has joined #openttd
14:52<TiberiusTeng>it really hurts when ATI didn't support the spec they originally proposed :Q
14:52<+glx>so does MS
14:53<ben_goodger>OOXML ftw
14:53<TiberiusTeng>now I wonder if it runs on M$ Windows software OpenGL 1.1 ...
14:53<TiberiusTeng>(of course not, it used 1.2 features :p)
14:54<TiberiusTeng>but honestly, it still depend on some hardware features and drivers
14:55-!-ladisCZ [] has joined #openttd
14:55<ccfreak2k>Bjarni, try this:
14:55<TiberiusTeng>I still want it work correctly with Intel/NV hardwares if I do include some hack for ATI ...
14:55<ccfreak2k>Don't click yet.
14:55<+glx>ccfreak2k: on OSX?
14:55<@Bjarni>I was about to ask the same thing
14:55<ccfreak2k>Does Bjarni use OS X?
14:55*glx slaps ccfreak2k
14:56<+glx>read the credits in openttd
14:56<ccfreak2k>I don't read credits.
14:56<TiberiusTeng>now if someone make a SDL OpenGL driver ... :p
14:56<ccfreak2k>I rarely even read documentation.
14:56*Bjarni slaps ccfreak2k
14:56<TiberiusTeng>Bjarni, which graphics card are you using ?
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14:57<TiberiusTeng>great ...
14:57<ccfreak2k>Also, if you intend to use EXT_texture_non_power_of_two later on, ATi doesn't support that.
14:58<ccfreak2k>They use EXT_texture_rectangle instead.
14:58<TiberiusTeng>it's fine
14:58<TiberiusTeng>I already supported the situation without that extension
14:58<ccfreak2k>Welcome to the world of graphics. :)
14:58<TiberiusTeng>it's just not that memory efficient
14:58<TiberiusTeng>(I'm playing it without remapped colors on my good old i855GME)
14:58<TiberiusTeng>(right now)
14:58<@Bjarni>I prefer working over memory efficiency ;)
14:59<+glx>and I though opengl (or directx) was there to ease development
14:59<@Bjarni>glx: that's totally wrong
14:59<TiberiusTeng>EXT_texture_rectangle is not that useful
14:59<@Bjarni>directx is intended to prevent porting windows games to other platforms
14:59<TiberiusTeng>since it uses another coordinates system, and lacks support of many useful functions (like mipmapping)
15:00<ben_goodger>"those who would trade a little memory-efficiency for a little functionality deserve neither and will lose both"
15:00<+glx>Bjarni: right ;)
15:01<yorick>that's exactly why directx 10 doesn't run on anything else than vista
15:01<TiberiusTeng>in contrast ARB_texture_non_power_of_two is not a 'special' texture target, it supports all functions ...
15:01<Mchl>ben_goodger: Was Ben Franklin a software developer as well?
15:01<TiberiusTeng>and speaking of memory efficiency, texture atlases are primary memory consumers
15:02<TiberiusTeng>something like two 1024x4096x4 textures ...
15:02<ben_goodger>Mchl: not quite...
15:02<Mchl>a man of many virtues nonetheless
15:02<TiberiusTeng>actually I really hope ccfreak2k can solve ATI problems for me ;)
15:03<ccfreak2k>I know next to nothing about OpenGL.
15:03<ben_goodger>it's a shame nobody pays any attention to him any more
15:03<yorick>let me rephrase that bug: autoreplace has unexpected results if Sell works correctly but build doesn't
15:04<TiberiusTeng>right now I'm guessing, and ccfreak2k is helping me proving if it works (or, mostly, not) on an ATI hardware ...
15:05<TiberiusTeng>so ... map panning don't work; is the water animating ? how about world map ?
15:05<ccfreak2k>It'd be nice if I could profile it.
15:05<TiberiusTeng>and check cargo payment rates graph too
15:05<TiberiusTeng>the one I did yesterday ...
15:06<ccfreak2k>Using what tool?
15:06<TiberiusTeng>Intel VTune
15:06<TiberiusTeng>ofcourse you can use gprof ...
15:06<ccfreak2k>I'm trying to use VisualStudio's, if it has one.
15:06<TiberiusTeng>I just wanna play the evaluation version
15:06<ccfreak2k>I saw a Second Life architech demo Second Life in OSX's profiler, which got me interested.
15:06<TiberiusTeng>Visual Studio Performance Tool ... is only available in Team something version
15:07<ben_goodger>the 2.4 gigabyte text editor
15:07<yorick>why can I not replace helicopters by small airplanes
15:07<TiberiusTeng>anyway we have progress today ... at least ATI cards can display something
15:08<ben_goodger>it takes about fifteen minutes to load on my college computer
15:08<yorick>while the small airplanes ARE in the autoreplace list?
15:08<TiberiusTeng>wait a sec, ccfreak2k, are you still here ?
15:08<ben_goodger>Prof_Frink: no, visual studio. emacs remains steady at about ten megs, I believe
15:08<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, yes.
15:08<Yexo>yorick: I guess you can't replace them because that would fail on helidepots
15:09<Prof_Frink>ben_goodger: Steady? That's gone up 2 meg since the acronym.
15:09<TiberiusTeng>replace all glDrawBuffersARB with glDrawBuffersATI and see if you can pan the map correctly?
15:09<ben_goodger>I think the acronym originates in the late eighties
15:09<ccfreak2k>VisualStudio 2005 loads in about 5-10 seconds on my desktop.
15:09<ccfreak2k>Less if I launched it at least once in the past few hours.
15:09<yorick>Yexo: but why are they displayed?
15:10<Yexo>a bug :)
15:10<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, is the water supposed to animate?
15:10<yorick>I know why you can't autoreplace them
15:10<TiberiusTeng>yes, it does.
15:10<ccfreak2k>Because it's not for me.
15:10<yorick>because: if selling a plane works, and buying another one doesn't, it has some ugly effects
15:10<Yexo>problems with orders and such, for example order to heliports or oil platforms
15:10<TiberiusTeng>so the DrawBuffers isn't working ...
15:11<ccfreak2k>The newspaper black & white "photo" also experiences incorrect colors.
15:11<@peter1138>ben_goodger: eight megs and constantly swapping
15:11<@peter1138>later revised to eighteen, and then eighty...
15:11<ccfreak2k>Cargo payment rates graph looks ok.
15:11<ben_goodger>oh, it can't be eighty, surely
15:11<@peter1138>it can
15:12<yorick>Yexo: I patched a fix for that orders
15:12<ben_goodger>bloody hell
15:12<@peter1138>vim is 32MB for me ;)
15:12<Prof_Frink>peter1138: exabytes and constantly swapping
15:12<ben_goodger>obviously I've not been loading enough extensions into it
15:12<@peter1138>gedit is... er... 280MB
15:12<@peter1138>although that's virtual
15:12<yorick>and, if selling a plane works, but buying another one doesn't, you get the money, but keep the old plane
15:12<@peter1138>27MB ... holy crap
15:12<@peter1138>vim is a mere 3MB resident
15:13<Yexo><yorick> and, if selling a plane works, but buying another one doesn't, you get the money, but keep the old plane <- that's clearly a bug, but another issue as why replacing planes <> helicopters doesn't work
15:14<Yexo>see players.cpp line 746
15:14<yorick>I know why it doesn't work
15:15<blathijs>peter1138: And even vim is completely bloated with functionality already :-)
15:15<yorick>because you get the bug when trying to buy an airplane on a helistation
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15:15<TiberiusTeng>looks it can't get glCopyTexImage2D working
15:15<yorick>but they don't bother at fixing the bug because they filter out all cases in which it could happen
15:15<TiberiusTeng>try add a CheckGLError("glCopyTexImage2D") below that function in DrawColorMappingRect() and see how it says?
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15:17<TiberiusTeng>invalid_enum is impossible, invalid_value is not very distinguishing, and invalid_operation is next to impossible ... holy.
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15:18<@SmatZ>in trunk?
15:18<TiberiusTeng>ahh. ok. it shouldn't work. I forgot to modify here to support power-of-two textures ...
15:18<ccfreak2k>Which function is "that function"?
15:18<yorick>fortunatly, related to the bug I want fixed
15:18<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, nope, my fault
15:18<@peter1138>blathijs: "already" does not fit there ;)
15:18<@peter1138>i think the word you mean is "now"
15:19-!-grumbel_ [] has quit []
15:19<blathijs>I meant that it is bloated, even in 3MB :-)
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15:20<@SmatZ>yorick: are you sure about that?
15:20<TiberiusTeng>modify the ScrollBuffer() function, add a CheckGLError("glTexImage2D"); below glTexImage2D(), and another CheckGLError("glCopyTexSubImage2D"); below glCopyTexSubImage2D() ...
15:20<yorick>build airport, cheapest airplane, set autoreplace, care NOT to have enough money to autoreplace
15:20<TiberiusTeng>(is anyone suggesting a better way to trace opengl error messages under this situation? ~_~)
15:20<yorick>and make it autoreplace
15:20<yorick>plane's still there
15:20<yorick>and money got raised by 30,000
15:21<Prof_Frink>blathijs: Yeah, you shouldn't use an editor. Just echo and sed.
15:21<yorick>which you could 'donate' to another company and press the autoreplace button again
15:21<yorick>and there you got your unlimited money
15:21<Prof_Frink>yorick: Or invest in buying land.
15:21<yorick>most likely it's in 0.6 too
15:22<yorick>even better
15:22<Prof_Frink>Or other vehicles
15:22<@SmatZ>yorick: doesn't work for me
15:22<@Rubidium>Prof_Frink: why do you need echo?
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15:23<yorick>well it does here
15:23<ccfreak2k>The water animates during map generation, but not while playing.
15:23<@SmatZ>yorick: in clean trunk?
15:23<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: So you can pretend your computer is talking to you.
15:24<yorick>SmatZ: don't use the autoreplace button ;)
15:24<yorick>that one doesn't work
15:24<@Rubidium>Prof_Frink: you can use sed for that too
15:25<@SmatZ>yorick: you are right, sir!
15:25<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, scrolling produces this:
15:25<blathijs>C-x M-c M-butterfly
15:26<yorick>SmatZ: the more expensive the plane, the more effective this works
15:27<@SmatZ>yorick: hopefully doesn't work in 0.6
15:27<yorick>I'll check
15:27<yorick>it's possibly the vehicle economy backup
15:27<ccfreak2k>Also, two more screenshots:
15:27<@SmatZ>yorick: most likely :-P
15:27<yorick>and if so, Bjarni caused a critical bug
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15:28<TiberiusTeng>hmm. possibly unpaired glBegin/glEnd (very unlikely) or the texture didn't correctly created ... hmm ...
15:29<TiberiusTeng>and the cursor sprite have a strange tint :p
15:29<TiberiusTeng>ahh, the cursor won't leave any tail, will it ?
15:29<@peter1138>yorick: so fix it
15:29<ccfreak2k>The cursor doesn't have a trail, no.
15:29<ccfreak2k>It's just like the regular cursor, except for the odd coloring at the tip.
15:29<TiberiusTeng>hmm so CopyToBuffer is really working.
15:29<yorick>yeah, it doesn't happen in 0.6 :)
15:30<TiberiusTeng>water still lack animation ?
15:30<ccfreak2k>Yep, no water animation.
15:30<yorick>peter1138, I've been trying that for like the half day
15:30<ccfreak2k>I get the white still when scrolling, but if I "jerk" the screen and make it all redraw, it doesn't happen.
15:30<yorick>oh, it could help if I tested correctly
15:30<yorick>sorry, retry!
15:31<+glx> <-- seems to be partial animation
15:31<ccfreak2k>glx, the water is "stuck" like that, sort of.
15:32<TiberiusTeng>the palette keeps updated, but the screen isn't constantly redrawn with updated palette
15:32<yorick>ah, it still doesn't happen
15:32<TiberiusTeng>so it'll look like 'partially animated' when the gfx decide to redraw some water sprites
15:33<+glx>without any animation all water should look the same
15:33<+glx>so animation works, but you don't see it in realtime
15:33<TiberiusTeng>the palette's changing, but the part redrawing the screen with new palette is broken
15:33<@SmatZ>glx: when animation doesn't work, the water is drawn with palette that was actual while that part was redrawn
15:33<@SmatZ>but the colours don't cycle
15:34-!-Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
15:34<+glx>it's a redraw problem
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15:34<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, did you change GL_RGBA8 back to GL_RGBA ?
15:34<TiberiusTeng>(you should do this)
15:34<ccfreak2k>I didn't.
15:35<ccfreak2k>But uh
15:35<ccfreak2k>one of them was already GL_RGBA8 before I changed it.
15:35<TiberiusTeng>your card shouldn't take that path (easy_texture_size)
15:36<ccfreak2k>Aha, indeed.
15:36<TiberiusTeng>I wonder why cursor works, but scrolling don't
15:36<TiberiusTeng>they're basically the same ...
15:37<ccfreak2k>Is the cursor supposed to do something special?
15:37<ccfreak2k>I thought it was static.
15:37<TiberiusTeng>but the cursor background is constantly copied to a buffer, and restored when you moved the cursor
15:38<TiberiusTeng>the area below cursor, to be precise
15:38<ccfreak2k>Yeah, moving the cursor looks fine.
15:38<TiberiusTeng>and that's also what ScrollBuffer() does, only it operates on a way more bigger region
15:38<ccfreak2k>Changing the things back to GL_RGBA makes one error go away, but I still get this when I scroll: OpenGL Error at glTexImage2D: invalid operation
15:39<ccfreak2k>As someone else said, the water still "animates", but it doesn't get drawn.
15:39<ccfreak2k>If I pan across the water, the animation paints itself in the redrawn sections.
15:40<TiberiusTeng>does reducing the window size work?
15:40<+glx>maybe the card does too much optimisation, thinking the screen didn't changed
15:40<ccfreak2k>Window resizing works.
15:40<TiberiusTeng>I start wondering if it exceeds 2048x2048 size limit ... or some memory caps
15:40<ccfreak2k>The water updates...just when it resizes, though.
15:41<TiberiusTeng>make the window smaller then try panning the map?
15:41<ccfreak2k>Moving an in-game window around over the water causes it to animate, again, I assume when it redraws the water.
15:41<TiberiusTeng>you're right.
15:41<ccfreak2k>Resizing and panning causes the same problem.
15:42<yorick>the 4 critical bugs all have to do with autoreplace currently ;(
15:43<ccfreak2k>The sides of windows, the status bar on the bottom and tool bar on the top cause a kind of line of demarcation.
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15:44<@SmatZ>I think I will add 5th
15:44<yorick>you have one?
15:45<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, you said it's glTexImage2D failing ... could you watch or printf() texw and texh ?
15:45<ccfreak2k>Set a break?
15:46<TiberiusTeng>yeah, something like that
15:46<TiberiusTeng>hmmmmmm ............
15:46<ccfreak2k>Notice the sort-of invisible boundaries.
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15:47<ccfreak2k>texh is 1024, texw is 256.
15:47<TiberiusTeng>ahh, not bigger than 2048 ...
15:48<@Bjarni> <ben_goodger> "those who would trade a little memory-efficiency for a little functionality deserve neither and will lose both" <-- I say that getting my own hardware to be supported isn't considered "a little functionality"
15:49<ccfreak2k>glTexImage2D only seems to throw an error every OTHER time it's called.
15:49<yorick>welcome back bjarni
15:49<yorick>finally found a way to phrase my bug :)
15:49<@Bjarni>I just love errors that happens at random times
15:49<TiberiusTeng>now that's strange ~_~
15:49<@peter1138>Bjarni needs supports for his 'hardware'
15:49<yorick>it's called "free money on autoreplace failure" now :)
15:50<@peter1138>do they ladies fear you?
15:50<TiberiusTeng>I wonder if OSX machines can be equipped with NV cards
15:50<ccfreak2k>texw is sometimes 512, texh remains unchanged at 1024.
15:50<@Bjarni>TiberiusTeng: they can
15:50<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, that's the great thing about standards like AGP. :)
15:50<@Bjarni>but I just don't have such a thing here
15:50<TiberiusTeng>yep, that's normal, notice there are more than one regions to be scrolled
15:51<TiberiusTeng>gfx will cut the screen into few rectangles, then move them one by one
15:51<TiberiusTeng>and then redraw the new gaps
15:51*peter1138 pokes ccfreak2k with a driver
15:52<@peter1138>physical bus compatibilty is no use if there are no drivers
15:52<TiberiusTeng>actually at first I think I would met most problems on i855GME, not something like X850XT :p
15:52<ccfreak2k>I wasn't aware the i800 series even supported fragment programs.
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15:53<TiberiusTeng>yes it doesn't ... but like I said, it still runs and displays something, just without 'remapped colors' and 'palette animation'.
15:53<TiberiusTeng>did you replaced glDrawBuffersARB with glDrawBuffersATI ?
15:54<TiberiusTeng>try it. :p
15:54<ccfreak2k>All instances?
15:54<TiberiusTeng>and expect to see me online 24 hours (or even 48 hours) later ... whatever it works or not. :~
15:54<TiberiusTeng>yes, all instances.
15:55<ccfreak2k>All two of them..
15:55<TiberiusTeng>ha, it's cached to reduce state changes.
15:56<ccfreak2k>Scroll problem is still there.
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16:02<TiberiusTeng>sorry, gotta take a rest ...
16:02<TiberiusTeng>will back on this later
16:02-!-mikl [] has joined #openttd
16:02<TiberiusTeng>I think I'll find some computer with capable ATI card to debug it myself, it's too tired for both me an ccfreak2k ...
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16:08<ccfreak2k>From what I can see, VS8 Profession (what I'm using) should have everything that the Team editions do.
16:09<ccfreak2k>Professional, I mean.
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16:22<TiberiusTeng>try Catalyst 8.6 ?
16:22<TiberiusTeng>just couldn't fall asleep ... 04:25 and I have to do a presentation at 13:00
16:23<ccfreak2k>I didn't get 8.6 because 8.5 was the newest when I was looking for drivers.
16:24<TiberiusTeng>from what I read, ATI drivers does support OPTION ARB_precision_hint_fastest ...
16:25<ccfreak2k>I can't find it in EVEREST's list.
16:26<TiberiusTeng>no, it's a fragment program option defined by ARB_fragment_program ...
16:26<TiberiusTeng>catalyst 8.5 isn't that old either, I wonder ...
16:27<ccfreak2k>Nope. Its version indicates May, 2008.
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16:40<TiberiusTeng>I'm just considering to purchase an HD2600 myself ...
16:41-!-dR3x4cK [] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
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16:41<ccfreak2k>Just find a Radeon 9600 Pro or something from eBay or craigslist.
16:41<ccfreak2k>It's close enough.
16:42<TiberiusTeng>it'll be funny if HD2600 runs great while X850XT doesn't ...
16:42<TiberiusTeng>but I do suspect I did something wrong before compiling those shaders
16:43<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, if you have some free time, please get gDEBugger trial, use it to run openttd.exe and see what you got in GL_AUX0 buffer
16:43<TiberiusTeng>it should contain color indexes from sprites ...
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17:01<ccfreak2k>Hmm, vs8 seems to have locked up
17:01-!-Purno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:01<ccfreak2k>Oh wait, nevermind.
17:01<ccfreak2k>It's done.
17:03<ccfreak2k>What frame terminators do I want to uh...check?
17:04<Scaevolus>how's it going, ccfreak2k?
17:04<ccfreak2k>I'm trying to find where the watch is on this thing.
17:05<Dred_furst>TiberiusTeng, out of interest why have you made it win32 only, and secondly why shaders?
17:05<TiberiusTeng>or wglSwapBuffers(), both are fine
17:05<ccfreak2k>I can do both.
17:05<ccfreak2k>Wait, no I can't.
17:05<TiberiusTeng>because I only have win32 computers :P
17:06<TiberiusTeng>it will only need a thin layer of OpenGL initialization to work on other platforms.
17:06<@Bjarni>I'm sorry
17:06<Dred_furst>Just out of interest, openTTD uses SDL already right?
17:06<TiberiusTeng>and about shaders ... it's the most flexible way to support palette-based sprites & palette animations now
17:06<Scaevolus>Dred_furst: yeah, I tried proposing the idea of just setting sdl to opengl render mode
17:06<TiberiusTeng>it can be done
17:06<Dred_furst>its a lot easier
17:06<TiberiusTeng>but I don't know how
17:06<Dred_furst>plus it makes it portable
17:06<ln>Dred_furst: not on every platform.
17:07<TiberiusTeng>so please do it ;)
17:07<Scaevolus>ln: win/lin/mac all have opengl ;)
17:07<Dred_furst>whatever SDL and opengl is supported on
17:07<Scaevolus>which is what, 99+% of the PC market?
17:07<TiberiusTeng>just diff win32_v.cpp and win32gl_v.cpp and you'll know what should be prepared for opengl blitter ...
17:07<Scaevolus>12:17:19 < TiberiusTeng> peter1138 did changed sdl_v to support OpenGL before, he even gave me the diff
17:07<Prof_Frink>Scaevolus: Remember that openttd also supports OS/2
17:07<ln>Scaevolus: yeah, but OpenTTD doesn't use SDL on every platform is what I was saying.
17:07<Scaevolus>TiberiusTeng: do you still have that diff?
17:08<Dred_furst>ln, but it can
17:08<Scaevolus>ln: oh, naturaly
17:08<Dred_furst>and if you want opengl, I would reccommend it
17:08<TiberiusTeng>yes, but not at my hand
17:08<ln>Dred_furst: "can", but shouldn't.
17:08<Scaevolus>ln: but it's just another display mode, so it's okay if it's not completely portable across all the platforms openttd runs on
17:08<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, where IS the GL_AUX0 buffer? :|
17:09<Dred_furst>ln, why shouldnt
17:09<TiberiusTeng>pause the execution in gDEBugger
17:09<TiberiusTeng>view -> viewers -> textures and buffers viewer
17:09<Dred_furst>in the case of opengl, it would be preferred because all SDL handles is the creation of the window
17:09<ccfreak2k>Yeah there's nothing named GL_AUX0 in that window.
17:10<Scaevolus> many OS/2 systems have 3D acceleration?
17:10<TiberiusTeng>is there a AUX0 in buffers list ?
17:10<ln>Dred_furst: adding a new dependency to a new library is to be avoided.
17:10<TiberiusTeng>... ouch
17:10<Dred_furst>but ln its already a partial dependancy
17:10<TiberiusTeng>but you have textures, front/back buffers ?
17:10<ccfreak2k>In buffers list?
17:11<ccfreak2k>Static buffers, depth buffer, stencil buffer, back buffer, front buffer.
17:11<ln>Dred_furst: it's not a "partial dependency" as SDL is not required for OTTD on e.g. Mac and Windows.
17:12<TiberiusTeng>so the card claims it support draw buffers? hmm ......
17:13-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:14<Dred_furst>but it is on linux
17:14<Dred_furst>and SDL is cross platform
17:14<Dred_furst>and is known to compile with TTD on those platforms
17:15<@Bjarni>SDL+OSX caused weird bugs in OpenTTD
17:15<@Bjarni>like you couldn't quit the game without crashing it
17:15<@Bjarni>and it crashed inside the SDL library o_O
17:15<Dred_furst>then something is up with the coding *shrug*
17:16<TiberiusTeng>the file from peter1138 ... hope it's OK to redistribute it
17:17<@SmatZ>@seen ludde
17:17<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: ludde was last seen in #openttd 24 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 53 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <ludde> :)
17:17<@SmatZ>!seen ludde
17:17<@SmatZ>half a year...
17:18<bowman>saw him recently in a dreambox-related setting
17:18<bowman>hmm maybe not so recently
17:19<bowman>yep, still on efnet :)
17:21<Dred_furst>TiberiusTeng, anything submitted to openttd must be GPL :)
17:21-!-LA_ [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]]
17:21<SpComb>Dred_furst: there are GPL-compatible licenses
17:22<Eddi|zuHause3><TiberiusTeng> the file from peter1138 ... hope it's OK to redistribute it <- you could instead link to his own file :p
17:22<SpComb>afaik GPL code can use e.g. BSD-licensed code, and even re-license it and any modifications under theGPL
17:23<@SmatZ>when you code something based on GPL'ed code, nobody can force you to make it "public available"
17:23<@SmatZ>when you don't release binaries or so
17:23<SpComb>indeed, the only obligation you have under the GPL is to provide the sources along with the binaries
17:24<ccfreak2k>make the source available somehow.
17:24<SpComb>although if you only provide a written notice of how the sources are available with the binary, then you have to give the source to anyone who asks
17:24<Eddi|zuHause3>well, he "distributed" it to TiberiusTeng, he must have done this under the GPL
17:24<Scaevolus>not necessarily
17:24<Scaevolus>more likely he didn't mention license at all
17:24<SpComb>but if you distribute the source along with the binary, then you're under no obligation to hand out the source to anyone else
17:24<Eddi|zuHause3>yes. because it is a derived work
17:24<Scaevolus>just said "hey, I did this hack, have a look"
17:25<Scaevolus>oh right, forgot it was derived
17:25<SpComb>code without a license follows the plain 'ol copyright laws
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17:26<SpComb>hmm, perhaps if you distribute modifications to GPL code without licensing it under the GPL, then the copyright holders of the GPL software could sue you for copyright infringement
17:26<Eddi|zuHause3>well, like i said, linking to his file will not get you in license/copyright trouble ;)
17:26<@SmatZ>hmm can you distribute diffs without mentioning that it is under GPL and where the licence is available for download?
17:27<Eddi|zuHause3>that's a very theoretical question, as "everybody knows" that the GPL is found at the openttd repo
17:28<Eddi|zuHause3>which is the same repo as the diff is made to apply with
17:28<ccfreak2k>I put my license (BSD) in every one of my source files. :)
17:29<Eddi|zuHause3>ccfreak2k: but that does not usually make it appear in the .diff
17:29<ln>the situation is even more complex, because the copyright holder of OTTD source code is not known.
17:29<ccfreak2k>If the .diff modifies one of my files, it too falls under the BSD license (since they're contributing to my work).
17:29<ccfreak2k>Not that I, myself, would care.
17:30-!-yorick [] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
17:30<Eddi|zuHause3>ccfreak2k: yes, but you must (theoretically) state that license for every single diff you give out
17:30<ccfreak2k>Well, if the diff created a NEW file, then possibly.
17:31<ccfreak2k>If it only modified my existing files, then I would argue that it's not necessary, since the diff is made to only patch against my files.
17:31<Eddi|zuHause3>ccfreak2k: there are no implicit licenses
17:31<Eddi|zuHause3>only copyright is implicit (and not transferable, in germany)
17:31<ccfreak2k>Then again, if someone is going to pedant over a diff file for openttd, do you really want his contribution? :)
17:32<Eddi|zuHause3>well, there are always two choices
17:33-!-ben_goodger [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:33<Eddi|zuHause3>a) he released it under GPL and didn't mention it, or b) that he ignored the GPL
17:34<Eddi|zuHause3>the question is whether you can safely assume a) is the case
17:34<Eddi|zuHause3>and the question has been asked multiple times already
17:35<ccfreak2k>IIRC TiberiusTeng didn't include a license in his diff/patch files. What does THAT mean?
17:35<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean this discussion is coming up every half year or so
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17:38<planetmaker>may "static void somefunction()" be in a header file?
17:38<ccfreak2k>You mean prototypes?
17:38<planetmaker>or is static not allowed there?
17:38<@SmatZ>everything is allowed there
17:39<@SmatZ>there are many "static inline" functions in heard files
17:39<@SmatZ>in OTTD
17:39<planetmaker>I'm thinking about putting static void SubtractMoneyFromAnyPlayer in functions.h
17:40<planetmaker>it's so far only accessible in player.cpp, but I need it in sharedinfrastructure.cpp
17:40<@SmatZ>planetmaker: put only declaration there (prototype)
17:41<@SmatZ>and remove static from definition
17:41<planetmaker>what's the purpose of defining something static?
17:42<@SmatZ>that its symbol isn't exported probably
17:43<planetmaker>hm... the wiki references objects. this procedure is not part of a class. So I trust SmatZ :)
17:43<@SmatZ>static member function is something different
17:43<ccfreak2k>There's several types of "static" depending on what you're talking about. :)
17:44<ln>planetmaker: yes, SmatZ is right, a static function is only visible within the same compilation unit.
17:44<planetmaker>I guess then it relates to linking here, yes
17:45<planetmaker>k, so it has to go definitely :)
17:45<planetmaker>Thanks a bunch.
17:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13625 /branches/noai/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: re-introduce the About button in the last menu, to make Yexo really really happy again :)
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18:10<Eddi|zuHause3>planetmaker: "static" means that the function is only valid in the file you define it (or files that include this file, then in each file separately), so you cannot link to/call that function from outside of the file
18:11<Eddi|zuHause3>completely different from the java-meaning of "static", where that refers to a class-function (instead of an object-function)
18:12<@Bjarni>if you make an inline function in a header without using the static keyword the compiler will presume that you will link to this function and your binary will grow as it has functions you will never call
18:13<Eddi|zuHause3>but he doesn't want to inline, he wants to export the function, which means unstatic-ing is the right way ;)
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18:32<Scaevolus>Is the distance a good travels calculated as manhattan distance between the origin and receiving stations?
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18:37<ln>fjb has dialed in
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18:37<@SmatZ>Scaevolus: yes
18:38<Scaevolus>SmatZ: thanks :)
18:39<Scaevolus>I'm writing a bit on cargo revenues for the wiki, should I add a section to the Cargo page, or should I make a separate Cargo_revenues page?
18:40<@SmatZ>I don't know, I don't use wiki :-x
18:40<ccfreak2k>Stick it on the cargo page.
18:40<@SmatZ>that often to know its structure :)
18:40<ccfreak2k>If it's so necessary to put it on its own page, someone will move it.
18:41<Scaevolus>good enough
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19:18<Tim__>Hm... Any developer here?
19:18-!-Zahl [] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"]
19:19<Eddi|zuHause3>developers are never going to answer such a question
19:19<@Belugas>indeed, Eddi|zuHause3, indeed
19:19<Tim__>i found a bug :)
19:20<Tim__>picture says more than thousands word, i guess
19:20<Tim__>if removing signals one for one, the signals turn red like they should
19:20<@Belugas>i found a bugeuhh, i found a bugeuhh...
19:20<Lakie>Being a developer is so much more fun when no-one knows...
19:21<Eddi|zuHause3>Tim__: bugs go to
19:21<Lakie>Belugas: I get that constantly with aRV's and thats not even my project!
19:22<@Belugas>i can imagine, Lakie :)
19:22<dih>hey ho Belugas ;-)
19:22<Eddi|zuHause3>Tim__: preferably with savegame and description how to reproduce
19:22<@Belugas>Tim__, Eddi|zuHause3 is right. Go to, enter your bug there, with as much info as possible
19:22<@Belugas>hey dih :)
19:24<@Belugas>boring... oinly one video of ratts in capital
19:25<@Belugas>how culd I figure out what they are playing then???
19:25-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
19:25*Belugas keeps trying
19:26<@SmatZ>Tim__: fixed in 1 min
19:27<@Belugas>ho... of course... the master of the signals!
19:28<Eddi|zuHause3>i assume it's a missing call to the "update signals on track" function
19:28<+glx>or incorrect direction to update
19:29-!-Progman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:29<@SmatZ>as glx said
19:29<@SmatZ> fixes it
19:29<@SmatZ>but it won't be anymore possible to do what Tim__ did
19:30<@SmatZ>HasTrack ha
19:30<Eddi|zuHause3>that option also crossed my mind when viewing the picture
19:30<Eddi|zuHause3>"that should probably not be possible at all"
19:31<@SmatZ> better :)
19:31<Scaevolus>who's responsible for the OpenTTD wiki?
19:31<@SmatZ>users I would guess
19:31<Scaevolus>no, I mean the admin
19:31<Scaevolus>it doesn't seem to have LaTeX :(
19:32<Scaevolus>so I can't do nice-looking mathematical formulas
19:33<@SmatZ>@openttd commit 11871
19:33<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r11871 /trunk/src (10 files in 2 dirs) (2008-01-16 01:18:15 UTC)
19:33<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Fix [FS#1074]: do not update signals after each tile when building/removing a large block of track/signals/station
19:34<Eddi|zuHause3>so it's even your own fault? :p
19:35-!-Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: You can kill me, but you can never kill my soul. Which is the worst part of me. I'll hunt you forever!]
19:35<Scaevolus>who's the webmaster of
19:36<ccfreak2k>Tord Viktor it looks like.
19:36<Scaevolus>no, that's the registrar
19:36<Tim__>narf, i just spend a lot of time producing a savegame to show the bug and now you just fixed it *grrr*
19:36<Scaevolus>or maybe not
19:37<Tim__>but thank you nevertheless :)
19:37<Eddi|zuHause3>happens when you don't follow the discussion ;)
19:37<Tim__>hey, you said report it...
19:37<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, i did
19:38<@Belugas>so did i
19:38<@SmatZ>that was hard to write that commit message :-x
19:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r13626 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp:
19:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Fix (r11871): signals were not updated when player removed signals from nonexistent track sharing bits with existing track
19:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: So disallow removing signals from nonexistent track
19:39<Tim__>ehm... this bug also happens if you remove signals on the same track by dragging
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19:39<@SmatZ>r11871 is mentioned for easier backporting :)
19:39<Tim__>ah no
19:39<@SmatZ>Tim__: wait for next nightly, should be fixed
19:40<Tim__>it only happens when you remove signals on adjacent tracks...
19:40<@SmatZ>Tim__: there are more bugs than you posted?
19:40<Tim__>No, just the one in the image :)
19:40<@SmatZ>ok :)
19:41<@SmatZ>it is not there anymore :-P
19:41<Tim__>Cool, thanks
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19:41<Tim__>Since when are you a dev? Did i miss something? :D
19:42<Eddi|zuHause3>probably :p
19:42<@Belugas>a while now
19:42<@Belugas>he's doing good
19:42*Belugas pets SmatZ
19:42<Tim__>I hope so
19:42<Scaevolus>gah, the bugtracker requires authentication by an admin :(
19:42<Tim__>As long as he still has some time to play on openttdcoop...
19:42<ln>virtually everyone is a dev nowadays.
19:44<@SmatZ>thanks Belugas :)
19:45<Tim__>By the way :D - Any chance for that Powerplant-behaviour to be changed?
19:45<Eddi|zuHause3>Tim__: yes, newgrf
19:45<Tim__>I have 70% on my side xD
19:46<Eddi|zuHause3>then make the newgrf, and everyone will be happy ;)
19:46<Eddi|zuHause3>and powerplants already behaved like this in original TT
19:46<Scaevolus>should I add a bug to the bugtracker, or should I email mihamix, in order to request LaTeX on the wiki?
19:47<Tim__>Yes, but only because they behaved like that in the original it does not mean we can't do it better, does it?
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19:48<@SmatZ>hard to say
19:49<@SmatZ>but there is general rule to touch these things as little as possible
19:50<Eddi|zuHause3>i assume this'd be an action 0 in newgrf
19:50<Tim__>Hm... Just wondering - Would that be hard to change, or just 2 lines of code?
19:50<Eddi|zuHause3>see my previous line ;)
19:52<@SmatZ>I don't think so
19:52<@SmatZ>I think there is a flag stating that industry can never close down
19:52<@SmatZ>do you could either remove that flag
19:53<@SmatZ>that would be easy change
19:53<@SmatZ>but then power plants would die as often as other industries
19:53<@SmatZ>another solution would be to create another flag
19:53<@SmatZ>to "don't die that often"
19:53<@SmatZ>it is quite possible I am wrong, Belugas is the industry guru ;)
19:54<Tim__>That would be enough, as i don't see a reason why they should die less often than normal industries...
19:55<@SmatZ>so maybe change INDUSTRYLIFE_BLACK_HOLE to INDUSTRYLIFE_PROCESSING at build_industry.h : 1217
19:56<@SmatZ>maybe it would work, maybe not
19:56<Tim__>Come on Smatz, noone will ever notice if you do it :D
19:56<Tim__>Well, except for the changelog
19:56<@SmatZ>maybe if I changed coding style
19:56<@SmatZ>and did that change
19:56<@SmatZ>nobody would notice :)
19:56<Scaevolus>subtropical wood makes more money than valuables :O
19:56<Tim__>But people only read the "Feature"-ones anyway
19:57<Tim__>Or just make 2 changes at once and only document one of them *hehe*
19:57<Eddi|zuHause3>for the record, i vote against doing this in the code
19:57<@SmatZ>other devs read commit changes :-P
19:58<@SmatZ>I hope :-)
19:58<Tim__>Yeyey, i'm already searching for that Newgrf-tutorial...
19:59<Tim__>Anyone has a link to one? Can't really find it -.-
20:00<Tim__>ah, on THAT wiki :)
20:00<Tim__>Thank you...
20:00<Tim__>Maybe i have some time and learn that stuff...
20:01-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
20:01<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... the Action0Industries page does not list "black hole" as a flag
20:02<Tim__>Well, i'm off to bed now, goodnight everyone
20:02<@SmatZ>Industry production flags (0B) = 0 maybe
20:03-!-Gekz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:05<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, looks like that might work ;)
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20:13<dih>fasten your seatbelts... the next 55 client event is on its way... WWOTTDGD comming soon... July 12th 2008
20:19<Eddi|zuHause3>why 55?
20:20<dih>why not?
20:21<dih>it's 5 times more than now :-P
20:21<dih>good night :-)
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20:25<TiberiusTeng>can't the number be higher? :p
20:29<Eddi|zuHause3>well, the higher you push the number the more likely you hit assumed limits hidden in the code ;)
20:30<Eddi|zuHause3>but i suppose those would be more than likely powers of 2 (-1)
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20:43<ccfreak2k>55 what?
20:46<Eddi|zuHause2>sausages, of course...
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21:05<Scaevolus> the beginning
21:07<@SmatZ>png :)
21:07<@SmatZ>there are different cargo types
21:07<Scaevolus>wiki doesn't support TeX :V
21:07<Scaevolus>I'm working on the table now
21:07<ccfreak2k>The variables need names.
21:08<Scaevolus>but that formula is the same
21:08<Scaevolus>ccfreak2k: is the alt-text enough?
21:08<ccfreak2k>It's truncated.
21:08<Scaevolus>no, I just didn't bother writing the whole thing
21:09<ccfreak2k>Not to mention you missed C sub p.
21:09<Scaevolus>how so?
21:10<ccfreak2k>Wait nevermind.
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21:15<ben_goodger>why not the euclidean distance?
21:16<Scaevolus>because it's annoying to do diagonal roads
21:17<ccfreak2k>Not to mention impossible at, you know, angles other than multiples of 45.
21:17<@SmatZ>mmmm sqrt(dx ^ 2 + dy ^ 2) doesn't depend on angle
21:18<Scaevolus>you're missing the point
21:18<@SmatZ>but : sqrt is bad
21:18<Scaevolus>it it were euclidean distance, you'd get screwed because you have to do 30% more distance
21:18<@SmatZ>and also, in OTTD, the speed of trains moving "non-diagonal" is nto the same
21:19<Scaevolus>is it 1/1.4?
21:19<@SmatZ>hmm stupid me
21:19<@SmatZ>I should go sleep sorry
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21:19<@SmatZ>forget whatever I said!
21:20<ccfreak2k>I don't even remember what I said.
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21:44<Scaevolus> shinier
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22:09<ccfreak2k>Quite a few different types of cargo.
22:10<ccfreak2k>Although a non-insignificant portion of those are for toyland..
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22:47<Scaevolus>can't be helped
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 25 00:00:51 2008