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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-25

---Logopened Wed Jun 25 00:00:51 2008
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02:19<planetmaker>good morning
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05:47<Eddi|zuHause2><ben_goodger> why not the euclidean distance? <- because you get non-natural results because of the sqrt
05:59<Tefad>natural numbers not having a fractional component
05:59<Tefad>natural, integral
06:01<Eddi|zuHause2>if you have a natural grid, the 1- and infinity-distances always give natural results
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06:05*peter1138 ponders trying to fix the diagonal handling again
06:05<Eddi|zuHause2>didn't celestar once do work on that?
06:06<Eddi|zuHause2>in the gamebalance branch?
06:06<@peter1138>i don't think it's worth it
06:06<@peter1138>it'll break lots of newgrfs
06:07<Eddi|zuHause2>well, he introduced a struct for fixed-point numbers and changed the calculation for prices afaik
06:13<@peter1138>doesn't have much to do with diagonal handling
06:16<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, you jumped between the topics ;)
06:17<Eddi|zuHause2>the topic was cargo price calculation ;)
06:18<@peter1138>i did indeed
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06:36<Scaevolus>topic came up while I was writing
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06:45<Neo_>could anybody tell me please why my papermill (ecs vector wood) produces food
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06:50<Eddi|zuHause2>because you changed grfs midgame?
06:50<Eddi|zuHause2>after creating the map
06:51<Eddi|zuHause2>like when loading a scenario
06:51<Neo_>build the scenario with the vectors and than played it without changing something on the grfs
06:51<Yorick>have added the vectors in the scenario?
06:51<@peter1138>did you change the grfs mid-scenario editor?
06:51<Eddi|zuHause2>you have to add the grfs before creating the scenario
06:53<Neo_>i did both, so i imported the grfs before building the scenario and i checked whether the grfs are functioning in the scenario builder
06:54<Yorick>have you really added the grfs before clicking "Edit scenario"?
06:54<Eddi|zuHause2>you have to add the grfs before clicking on "create scenario" on the main menu
06:55<Neo_>so i have to correct myself the grfs are not imported before building the scenario, i will try to build the scenario with the grfs
06:55<@peter1138>it's quite annoying
06:55<@peter1138>it should be possible in the scenario editor at least
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06:55<@peter1138>(and it's all my fault, i believe :D)
06:55<Eddi|zuHause2>use the source ;)
06:56<Neo_>i was really sure that I have imported the grfs befoer I build the scenario
06:56<@peter1138>hmm, maybe not, that's only the cargo payment rates
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06:56<@peter1138>Neo_: well it could just be that something is broken
06:57<Eddi|zuHause2>imho a "reseteconomy" command is needed, and it should be run when starting a scenario as game
06:57<Neo_>I have to put them in a right order, right? depending on their ID?!?
06:57<Neo_>I mean the ecs vectors
06:57<Yorick>Eddi, I believe there is one in the wwottdgd forum topic
06:57<@peter1138>yeah, ECS has that restriction i believe
07:03<Neo_>it works, thx a lot
07:05<Eddi|zuHause2><Yorick> Eddi, I believe there is one in the wwottdgd forum topic <-- yes, the first wwottdgd first uncovered the problem
07:06<Eddi|zuHause2>they took an existing europe scenario and added ECS grfs to that
07:06<Eddi|zuHause2>and then found out that the new cargos did not get payed anything
07:06<Eddi|zuHause2>that was then fixed by hacking the savegame
07:07<Yorick>I had the same problem too
07:07<Yorick>on some europe map
07:07<Yorick>if not world
07:07<Yorick>I used a hacked copy-paste patch to fix it then
07:08<Yorick>aka lots of money and a new map
07:08<Ammler>Yorick: I made a console command for that
07:08<Yorick>I know
07:08<Ammler>(with help of SmatZ
07:09<@peter1138>the reason for that is because of the (flawed) way inflation is done
07:09<Yorick>inflation to off
07:09<Yorick>and add a warning about it's buggyness
07:10<@peter1138>yeah but
07:10<Yorick>we got a warning on the station spread too
07:10<@peter1138>inflation is not buggy, just odd
07:11<Yorick>yes, it inflates into negativeness?
07:11<Eddi|zuHause2>that's a completely different issue
07:11<Yorick>I'd call that buggy
07:12<Yorick>Eddi: it doesn't happen without inflation
07:12<Eddi|zuHause2>Yorick: that's simply an overflow issue
07:12<Yorick>it shouldn't inflate into overflows
07:13<Eddi|zuHause2>but that has nothing to do with adding newgrfs
07:13<Ammler>same can happen with habitants
07:13<Yorick>peter called it flawed
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07:15<Yorick>btw, turning off inflation doesn't reset the cost
07:16<Ammler>but together with the economyreset, it should...
07:16<Yorick>yes, but reseteconomy isn't multiplayer safe
07:16<Ammler>does it need
07:17<Yorick>I think it does
07:17<Ammler>you need that only once and it isn't in trunk anyway :-)
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07:18<Eddi|zuHause2>that just needs sending a command to all client
07:18<Eddi|zuHause2>resetengines must do that, too
07:19<Ammler>well, that patch was only meant for fixing saves.
07:20<Ammler>you can't add GRFs in MP anyway. so a MP safe reset isn't needed, imo.
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07:22<Yorick>if so, you should disable it in MP
07:22<Yorick>I don't think it is now
07:23<Ammler>it is a console command
07:23<Ammler>can you run those without rcon?
07:24<Yorick>I think you should add the NON_MP hook
07:25<Ammler>well, that should be done, if there are interests for trunk.
07:25<Yorick> IConsoleCmdHookAdd ("reseteconomy", ICONSOLE_HOOK_ACCESS, ConHookNoNetwork);
07:26<Yorick>no, because someone could execute it on the server, and make all the clients desync
07:26<Ammler>without rcon?
07:26<Yorick>someone that has rcon
07:26<Yorick>or someone that has sh access
07:27<Yorick>like...ooh, new command, what does it do?
07:27<Yorick>and then 40 desync messages
07:27<Ammler>you are right, if it is in trunk
07:27<Eddi|zuHause2>it should really be in trunk
07:27<Ammler>else you apply the patch and shouldn't ask that :P
07:29<Yorick>fs#2038 is there for a month now, and most likely urgent since june
07:29<Ammler> <-- comment it
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07:31<Yorick>my neutral airports patch is quite finished now
07:31<Yorick>except for the autoreplace bug, and that one happens in clean trunk too
07:31<Yorick>and tracksharing fixes it as long as shared airport hangars are on
07:32<Ammler>Yorick: it should be possible to configure depots for foreign vehicels only can service there.
07:33<Yorick>it is
07:33<Yorick>by disabling the shared airports
07:33<Ammler>I meant the IS patch.
07:33<Yorick>that's planetmakers job
07:34<Ammler>well, we will set breakdowns off and disable sharing depots.
07:34<Yorick>that'd uncover the autoreplace bug if it isn't fixed by then
07:34<Yorick>for planes
07:35<Yorick>because planes don't care about shared hangars, they just service there, I think
07:35<Ammler>yeah, but we set that off
07:35<Ammler>no service needed in wwottdgd
07:36<Yorick>I haven't found an option to stop planes from servicin
07:36<Yorick>just commenting out the line would do
07:37<Yorick>Ammler, why have you made the extern void ResetEconomy a global in console_cmds.cpp?
07:37<Yorick>I mean
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09:09<Eddi|zuHause2>that's gonna happen one way or the other ;)
09:10<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm just glad i am far away from berlin :p
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09:14<fjb>Funny picture. Hopefully the people stay calm.
09:15*Gekz shivers
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09:20<Eddi|zuHause2>how exactly is that relevant to the discussion?
09:27<ln>an off-topic youtube url?!
09:33<@Belugas>Gekz, warning: off topic youtubes are not allowed
09:33<Gekz>it's not in the topic
09:33<Gekz>and theres no link to rules in the topic
09:33<ln>Gekz: it is.
09:33<Gekz>I checked the topic.
09:33<ln>Gekz: the last item on the topic.
09:33<Gekz>I'm not an idiot.
09:34<Gekz>and it says nothing about youtube.
09:34<@Belugas>reason : we do not care about what you like, outside of the discussion. THis allows to not be floaded by meaningless posts
09:34<@Belugas>well.. now, I told you. It's as good as a topic announcement
09:35<ln>Gekz: well, if you are not an idiot, you certainly have made nice attempts at looking like one in the past.
09:37<@Belugas>ln, please, do not escaladate. He has been warned
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09:45<@Belugas>and indeed "No idiots" does not mean no YouTube. But since topics are already VER long, i guess "verbal" warning is good enough
09:45<@peter1138>the last rule is ignored a lot
09:45<@Belugas>hey peter1138
09:45<@peter1138>i mean, i'm still here
09:46<@peter1138>and that is hilarious
09:47<eekee>peter1138: off topic :D
09:47<fjb>And who needs that anyway?
09:48<TiberiusTeng>I'm idiot
09:49<eekee>you need a web page for the rules, really
09:50<@Belugas>not an useless one, TiberiusTeng. At least, you are working. not simply begging or just be a reckless baby feeded one
09:50<Yorick>banning self via rcon crashes the openttd server :)
09:50<@Belugas>now, that is idiotistic
09:52<Eddi|zuHause2><peter1138> i mean, i'm still here <- afair you put that there :p
09:57<fjb>Hm, the road vehicles only ai in trunk isn't that idiotic...
09:59<fjb>I'm impressed.
09:59<dih>Belugas: it is, but still should not happen
10:00<Yorick>is there any way I can get the name of the patch by the index offset in the SettingDesc array of the Patches struct?
10:01<+glx>probably (as there's a console function to display them)
10:03<Yorick>thanks glx (_patch_settings[index]->
10:07*Belugas restart certification. Won't be around much
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10:14<dih>Belugas, Yorick:
10:14<dih>that only does it for the kick command
10:14<dih>i think
10:14<dih>have not tried it
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10:41<Ammler>glx, the bug occurs not only
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10:42<Ammler>in running games, also at scenario editor ;-)
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10:46<+glx>Ammler: anyway you should chose the grfs before starting to create the scenario
10:46<dih>LA: i see working coming towards you :-D
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10:47<LA>dih: I'll leave very soon for a few days. Some grf adding isn't that hard
10:47<LA>so u can do it urself too
10:48<dih>lazy skunk :-P
10:48<LA>although I think I'll be back in a week or so
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10:49<Yorick>patch editing from clients works!
10:49<Yorick>(after commenting out several checks I still have to change)
10:52<Yorick>I channeled the patch settings into rcon :)
10:52<@Belugas>that's such a good way to go.. remove all safety checks, and let's run the program!
10:52<Yorick>those safety checks stopped me from doing what I wanted
10:53<dih>Belugas: it uses the rcon_passwd value set on the client
10:53<dih>Yorick: perhaps patch settings would be a wee bit over the top
10:53<Yorick>I just did them
10:54<dih>and it remains local if rcon passwd is not set?
10:54<Yorick>no, they get disabled as usual if rcon_pw isn't set
10:54<Yorick>and do not change if it's incorrect
10:56<Yorick>just my boolean operator knowledge is starting to faint
10:57<LA> / * Yorick faints /
10:57<Yorick>if (!(sd->save.conv & SLF_NETWORK_NO) && _networking && !_network_server) return;
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10:57<Yorick>now, for if it isn't a network server, I need it to check if the rcon_pw[0] == '\0'
10:58<Eddi|zuHause2>make a second if()
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10:59<Yorick>that'd be a way
11:00<Yorick>but would it be a short way?
11:00<planetmaker>yorick, make it a decent patch :) Will be a great patch for all server admins.
11:00<Yorick>that's why
11:00*planetmaker tries to avoid the t-word ;)
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11:02<Yorick>tongue? talk? type? time? the? ping?
11:02<planetmaker>it ends with runk ;)
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11:03<Yorick>ah, it's a tree!
11:03*planetmaker now quits sabotaging Yorick's work incentives :)
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11:07<Yorick>ah, the final step and the patch settings work :)
11:09<Yorick>now, the move-client gui
11:09<Yorick>most likely the hardest one
11:09<Yorick>I'd use the client list to select a client
11:10<Yorick>then open up a company list to select the company to move the player to
11:10<Yorick>any ideas on that, planetmaker?
11:11<planetmaker>There was an idea to add the 9 company buttons (spectator+companies) next to the clients. The active one is pressed.
11:11<planetmaker>What about that?
11:12<planetmaker>then you could change companies in a jiffy.
11:12<planetmaker> /s/pressed/activated
11:13<Yorick>the active one is activated?
11:13<Yorick>and what if there are no 9 companies?
11:13<Yorick>and the height of the client list is dynamically resized
11:14<planetmaker>well, if I'm in company 1, the button of company 1 is the pressed / active one, the others are raised.
11:14<Yorick>and wouldn't this be dihs job?
11:15<Yorick>the move patch is his
11:15<planetmaker>hehe :)
11:15<Ammler><yorick> [13:37:26] Ammler, why have you made the extern void ResetEconomy a global in console_cmds.cpp? <-- how would you do that? (the extern isn't needed, I guess, dunno :-)
11:15<Yorick>Ammler, how much programming knowledge do you have?
11:16<Yorick>compare my submitted patch to yours
11:16<Yorick>you can see the extern void StartupEconomy moves
11:16<Yorick>and yes, I ment StartupEconomy
11:17<Ammler>you still use extern, why?
11:17<dih>yorick: move patch is mine, rcon gui is yours
11:17<dih>besids, i dont do gui
11:17<Yorick>neither do I, btw
11:18<Yorick>Ammler, because it IS extern
11:18<Yorick>I could also do a header file, but that'd make you all of the economy functions into console_cmds.cpp
11:19<Ammler>I like to have it very small, not proper
11:20<Ammler>so you can use it very long on clientside.
11:20<Yorick>then extern is the way
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11:20<Ammler>also your hook is too much already :-)
11:21<Ammler>it would only make sence, if devs would be interested to include it in trunk...
11:21<Yorick>and they aren't, because they think they can get away with that big red warning no one actually reads
11:22<Yorick>and they can direct every 'bug'/'complaint' about it into that big red warning
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11:22<Yorick>I don't think they're actually interested in the grfs-ingame feature
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11:23<Ammler>commands, which you don't need in MP aren't important to have in trunk in ugly way.
11:24<Ammler>omg half past 5 and I am still not at home.
11:27<planetmaker>there're worst things, Ammler :)
11:28<planetmaker>replace wurst by käse and that sounds like a plan for the next minutes :)
11:29<Ammler>I would like to have too :-)
11:29<Yorick>nah, I don't like cheese
11:30<planetmaker>I do :)
11:30<Yorick>I don't like it cold, that is
11:32<Yorick>problem with integrating the move patch is that it's no longer a seperate patch
11:33<planetmaker>hm, yeah.
11:33<planetmaker>proposal: make it two patches:
11:33<planetmaker>one rcon gui w/o move patch
11:33<planetmaker>another where you only add the gui to the move patch (e.g. move patch xxl :) )
11:35<Yorick>done that
11:36<Yorick>I'm not really good with totaly seperate guis
11:36<Yorick>someone should make a tutorial for the new windowing system
11:36<@Belugas>[11:17] <Ammler> I like to have it very small, not proper <--- Booo... why is it not in trunk?? booooo
11:37<Yorick>Belugas: I made a proper version there
11:39<@Belugas>it's not the job, it's the attitude...
11:39<Yorick>that's Ammlers attitude to it
11:39<Yorick>not mine
11:39<Yorick>I'd still like to see it in trunk
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11:40<@Belugas>did not said it was yours ;)
11:41<@Belugas>and i don't even know what patch that is
11:41<Yorick>who's the windowing expert here?
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11:44<@Belugas>i think there is none as per say
11:44<@Belugas>we all have some good notions on it.
11:45<Yorick>I'll copy one of those graph keys windows
11:46<Yorick>dih: how's moving to ai companies actually handles?
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11:46<Yorick>as you can't reset them and such
11:47<Yorick>you have ai companies in multiplayer
11:47<dih>wwottdgd has no ai controlled companies
11:47<Yorick>no, but they COULD be there
11:47<Yorick>and if you're heading for trunk...
11:47<dih>they AINT there
11:48<dih>the move clients patch has not seen me continue decent work on it for a while
11:48<dih>and you misunderstand something
11:48<dih>i dont head for trunk
11:48<dih>i write a patch, and if it's liked by the devs, they decide it will head for trunk
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11:48<dih>2 very different things
11:48*Belugas nods
11:49*Belugas applaudes
11:49*dih bows
11:49*Belugas picks dih
11:49<@Belugas>from the ground
11:49*dih gives Belugas a hug
11:49*dih runs
11:49*Yorick runs next to dih
11:50<dih>reminds me (<- Bjarni line)
11:50<dih>what is green and turns red by the push of a button
11:50<dih>frog in a blender
11:50<dih>what is green and remains green by the push of a button
11:51<Yorick>green liquid in a blender?
11:51<dih>frog in a blender running for its life
11:54<@Belugas>[11:47] <dih> what is green and turns red by the push of a button <-- patch setting
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11:54<@Belugas>[11:48] <dih> what is green and remains green by the push of a button <-- Generate button
11:54<Yorick>or disabled patch setting?
11:55<@peter1138>Belugas, your clock is 5 hours out ;)
11:55<blathijs>17:54:11 <@Belugas> [11:47] <dih> what is green and turns red by the push of a button <-- A frog in a blender?
11:56<@peter1138>clearly blathijs has dih on ignore
11:56<@peter1138>which i wholeheartedly agree with
11:57<blathijs>Oh wait, I'm making a joke that's been made already :-)
11:58<blathijs>I actually thought you guys were having some serious discussions about buttons in the openttd interface :-D
11:58<frosch123>no they make fun of frogs :(
11:59<@Belugas>they, not me
11:59<@Belugas>i love frogs, even more their legs
11:59<blathijs>Belugas: That's exactly what he said, "they" :-)
11:59<@Belugas>with garlic!
12:00<@peter1138>frogs will stay in my pond
12:00<@Belugas>and garlic in my garden :D
12:01<dih>17:56 <@peter1138> which i wholeheartedly agree with <-- :'(
12:01<@Belugas>- since i do not have a pond :S -
12:01<dih>so not fair
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12:03<Yorick>now to get started with dinner
12:03<Yorick>cya later!
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12:09<Digitalfox_>Bad Belugas eating frogs =0
12:09<fjb>Is it possible to kind of emulate konditinal loading with the conditinal order jump? I tried a jump back to the previous loading oder as long as the train is not 35% loaded. But that does not work. The trains leaves the station after the loading order.
12:10<fjb>Moin frosch123
12:10<Digitalfox_>Seriously I can't even imagine myself touching a dead frog.. So eating it its totally out of the question..
12:10<fjb>Touching a dead cow also isn't that much fun. But they taste great.
12:11<@Belugas>not moentionning chicken and so one...
12:12<Digitalfox_>But you eat frogs legs Belugas?
12:12<@Belugas>why not?
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12:12<@Belugas>it tastes like chicken a bit
12:13<@Belugas>it's all in your head
12:13<Digitalfox_>Well with all respect I feel it disgusting.. I know it's just an animal like any other and that I'm a hypocrite because I also eat dead animals, but frogs is out of the question..
12:14<@Belugas>toobad for you, good for me. Give me your plate!
12:14<Digitalfox_>Belugas true, I know this happens to me because I have received that kind of social education..
12:14<Digitalfox_>You are not wrong for eating it..
12:15<Digitalfox_>But here we don't eat dogs, cat's, frogs, horses, etc..
12:15<Digitalfox_>It's the culture of my country
12:15<Digitalfox_>Don't take someone we know to china belugas.. =0
12:16<fjb>Horses taste good.
12:16<Digitalfox_>Or she will be served in a plate :(
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12:17*Belugas agrees with fjb
12:18<@Belugas>and i do understand your point, Digitalfox_
12:19<fjb>Can we get back to the topic please? Is there a wai to have a train wait till a certain percantage is loaded?
12:20<@Belugas>i don't think it's possible with trunk, no
12:20<@Belugas>if it is , i'm not up to date with developpement
12:20<@Belugas>although i clearly remember a patch about that
12:20<@Belugas>or an attempt
12:21<Eddi|zuHause2>yes. it was in miniin
12:21<@Belugas>with bison?
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12:21<Eddi|zuHause2>long time ago
12:21<@Belugas>ho... miniin..
12:21*Belugas closes his mouth
12:23<fjb>Hm, it would be related to the conditional oders. An stay at the station oder coulb be useful. You could build a loop where a train stay some ticks (days) at the station and the rechecks if new load appeared.
12:24<@Belugas>hints : the more you add features to this poor orders system, the more it will become totally out of reach of regular users
12:25<fjb>Maybe the interface could be made a bit more intuitive. But the new conditional oders are great. And you don't have to use them.
12:28<@Belugas>could you come up with some drawings of a better one?
12:28<@Belugas>like... suggestions
12:28<@Belugas>not really the prissi style, please...
12:28<@Belugas>that's even worse!
12:30<fjb>What is the prissi style? Do you have an example?
12:30<@Belugas>look in the forums :)
12:30<planetmaker>fjb: you can tune the loading time at a station such that only a certain percentage of your capacity can be filled due to time constraints.
12:30<@Rubidium>all the buttons at the top
12:30<@Rubidium>all buttons visible at the same time
12:30<@Rubidium>i.e. the conditional order buttons should be visible at all time, just greyed out when not useable
12:31<fjb>Ah, ok, I know what you mean.
12:32<Eddi|zuHause2><planetmaker> fjb: you can tune the loading time at a station such that only a certain percentage of your capacity can be filled due to time constraints. <- no, timetable only can make the train wait longer, not shorter
12:32<@Belugas>prissi has some noble intentions. but his approach is not really realistic
12:33<@Belugas>altough, i do like his Hints-On patch
12:33<@Belugas>just that the way is set is not the best one, i believe
12:33<@Belugas>he fails at making it "user-friendly"
12:33<fjb>I will have a look at his patches how to not do it.
12:34<Eddi|zuHause2>how about by default the "advanced" orders are hidden? (and enabled by a button in the window/patch option)
12:34<@Belugas>he added a click count in patches. so, the oly way to turn it off is to go in patches and make it at zero (or someting)
12:34<@Belugas>i don't think a variable umber shold be used
12:35<@Belugas>and it shold be toggled on/off right frim the ? button in main/scenario toolbar
12:35<@Belugas>a-la-transparencis and other checkmarks
12:35<Eddi|zuHause2>and we should _REALLY_ quit calling it "patch option"
12:35<@Belugas>it would be more adequate
12:35<@Belugas>indeed we do, Eddi|zuHause2
12:36<@Belugas>i totally agree with you
12:36<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause2: really? Hm.... it was my impression that you could force an early leaving of the station
12:36<+glx>internally there are no patches
12:36<Eddi|zuHause2>nobody cares about internally ;)
12:37<+glx>(it's recent though)
12:37<+glx>and in french I use "Configuration avancée"
12:37<+glx>(advanced settings)
12:37<planetmaker>I can compliment on the internal rework of the settings. Even I can now try to understand it :)
12:38<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but nobody cares about french either ;)
12:38<fjb>The french do.
12:39<fjb>And some canadians.
12:39<planetmaker>mybe some africans, too
12:40<@Belugas>wanna get kicked, Eddi|zuHause2?
12:40<fjb>Oh, the timetable bottons are unreadable with the german translation. The labels are way too big for the buttons.
12:41<@Belugas>i kow, let's commit cpp_gui!
12:41<@Belugas>that will take care of that!!
12:41<Eddi|zuHause2>well, it's a fact that all translations are based on english, not on french
12:41<fjb>Belugas: Are you Bjarni in diguise? :)
12:41<@Belugas>oh no... far from that...
12:42<@Belugas>we only have the B in commun :P
12:42<@Belugas>[12:38] <fjb> Oh, the timetable bottons are unreadable with the german translation. <--- let's get rid of german, it is breaking the program!
12:42<fjb>Ok, just the kicking idea got me that idea.
12:43<fjb>Lets use only german in the game. It's a more precise language.
12:43<fjb>But I vote for an c++ gui.
12:43<@Belugas>so precise they need a ten foot long name for something that can be said way shorter both in french and english!
12:44<@Belugas>[12:41] <fjb> But I vote for an c++ gui. <-- that one was a joke...
12:44<@Belugas>c++ gui would not magically solve all the problems...
12:44<frosch123>[18:43] <fjb> Lets use only german in the game. It's a more precise language. <- if only the translators would be that precise...
12:44<fjb>But is the english or french name even that precise then?
12:44<Eddi|zuHause2>Belugas: but the new map array will :p
12:44<@Belugas>yeah :P
12:45<fjb>At leasts the labels should not escape their bounding boxes.
12:46<+glx>they don't have bounding boxes
12:46<fjb>They may be the couse of the trouble...
12:47<@Belugas>the casue of the problem is the fact that the windows do not know how big the lables are gong to be, and they do not resize accordingly
12:47<fjb>The size of the button should be the bounding box.
12:47<@Belugas>it would not solve the problem at all, since it's not related
12:47<@Belugas>bounding boxes are related to sprites
12:48<@Belugas>you do not use sprotes for buttones/labels
12:48<fjb>The java swing interface is nice in that way, easy to build a gui with. As much as I dislaike java in some respecs, that system is great.
12:49<fjb>Belugas: I din not mean that special bounding boxes for sprites. I meant a kind of box around labels that prvent them from overflow the buttons.
12:50<@Belugas>it is not required
12:50<@Belugas>you just need to make a proper resizing/ drawing
12:50<@Belugas>it all goes down to knowing in advanced the size of the tstring going to be written
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12:50<@Belugas>in an automatic way as much as possible
12:50<@Belugas>everything else wold be a dirty hack, i wold say
12:51<fjb>Yes. But what do you doo if a translation gets very long, so the label would be too big to fit on the screen? There has to be a maximum size somewhere.
12:52<@Belugas>well of course...
12:52<@Belugas>byut you do not need a bounding box for that
12:53<fjb>How do you call taht?
12:54<@Belugas>a limit :P
12:54<@Belugas>it can simply be a new param of the widgets
12:54<+glx>we just need real widgets
12:55<fjb>But what the autosizing with limit be useful to implement without using C++?
12:56<fjb>Real widgets could make many things easier. I guess many patches could be implemented in a cleaner way.
12:58<@Belugas>i do not really believe that one...
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12:59<@peter1138>hmm what?
12:59<fjb>Hm, how many ticks are a day?
13:00<@Belugas>a few
13:00<@peter1138>74 iirc
13:00<@Belugas>72 i would say
13:00<@Belugas>but i tend to trust peter1138 more than myself
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13:01<@peter1138>yeah, 74 ;)
13:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13627 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/api/ai_cargo.hpp newgrf_cargo.h): [NoAI] -Fix: typo in word 'nuclear' (Finaldeath)
13:01<@peter1138>but is it true that it's meant to be exactly 2 seconds...
13:03<fjb>Because I have to calculate somethnig and I never do remember how many ticks a day are.
13:07<@Rubidium>fjb: and because it should be exactly 2 seconds a day it's 2.22 seconds a day ;)
13:09<fjb>Ah, ok, so 2 seconds last 2.22 seconds?
13:10<fjb>And is that recursive?
13:11<@Rubidium>on some computers it is
13:13<fjb>Not leap seconds, stretch seconds...
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13:19<fjb>Hello Wolf01
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13:25<fjb>Why does a train always go to the depot when the order is "service at nearest depot"? Or is that another bug in YAPP? Usully "sevice at..." sends a train only to a depot when it needs servicing, even with yapp.
13:26<ben_goodger>in my experience it's always been an explicit order. the train would usually visit the depot by itself
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13:30<CIA-6>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13628 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
13:30<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Feature: enable building of aqueducts in the scenario editor
13:30<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Codechange: related to this split the waterway based buttons from the landscape generation window
13:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r13629 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp: -Fix [FS#2108](r13603): diameter != radius
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13:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13630 /trunk/src/lang/ (37 files in 2 dirs): -Update: apply english.txt changes from r13628 to other languages
13:41<fjb>Hm, no place to plant more trees...
13:42<@Belugas>remove than replant :)
13:43<yorick>thanks skidd13 for committing my idea
13:43<SpComb>what if you blow up all the trees, and then plant them again? Does the local authority still hate you after that?
13:44<yorick>without my name on it ;(
13:44<SpComb>there should be an option to make it look as if some other player/company killed all the trees
13:44<yorick>there should be an option to disable local authority as a whole
13:45-!-lobster_MB [] has joined #openttd
13:45<SpComb>isn't there one already?
13:45<@Belugas>yorick : "Additional comments about closing: Implemented in r13628
13:45<@Belugas>@Yorick: Sorry forgot to mention you in the commit message"
13:45<yorick>not really, no
13:45<SpComb>attitude towards landscaping
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r13631 /trunk/src/tar_type.h: -Fix (r13618): forgot #define avoiding multiple inclusions
13:46<yorick>oh, I've got some mail
13:47<@Belugas>youhave to excuse skiddl13, he has not commited much work outside his own
13:48<@Belugas>and local authority is here to stay, if it is only from me
13:50<yorick>I need a cheat for it
13:51<@peter1138>write one
13:51<yorick>or make magic bulldozer allow me to build stations
13:51<yorick>there are cheats for it
13:51<@Belugas>magic buldozer allowning to BUILD stations???
13:51<yorick>and is build while pause actually a cheat in a game without cheats
13:51<yorick>why not?
13:52<yorick>game without AI's
13:52<yorick>I mean
13:52<yorick>or a multiplayer game
13:52<yorick>these ais play unfair enough
13:52<ccfreak2k>Magic station tool. :)
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13:54-!-planetmaker is now known as faked_SmatZ
13:55-!-faked_SmatZ is now known as planetmaker
13:55<SmatZ>it's a fake!
13:55<yorick>no, really?
13:56<Eddi|zuHause2>i thought there was already a "disable local authority" cheat
13:56<Eddi|zuHause2>must have dreamt this :p
13:56<yorick>yes, somewhere amoung the patches in the OpenTTD Development forum
13:56<fjb>Hm, isn't the game easy enough?
13:56<Wolf01>use shift, right click on the widget and select "run as..." from the dropdown menu
13:57<SpComb>one oops-accidentially-dragged-the-dynamite-tool-into-a-news-viewport-and-blew-up-half-the-map?
13:57<SmatZ>I thought so, too :-x
13:57<yorick>ooh, idea
13:57<yorick>no news messages while mouse held!
14:02-!-thgergo [] has joined #openttd
14:05<Eddi|zuHause2>that never happened to me
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14:11<@Bjarni>planetmaker: I call you a fake
14:12<yorick>oh hihaBjarni!
14:12<planetmaker>hu? :) bugger. Nick changes in all channels :)
14:12<@Bjarni>not only that
14:12<@Bjarni>I don't believe that you make planets
14:13-!-lobster_MB [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
14:13<planetmaker>You may not believe that.
14:13<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: No, he really *is* Slartibartfast.
14:13<planetmaker>But from a certain point it IS true :)
14:13<@Bjarni>if you could then the number of planets in our solar system would increase and it's decreasing
14:13<yorick>it is?
14:13<[com]buster>by redefinition that is :p
14:14<@Bjarni>we had 9 planets when I was born and now we have 8
14:14<yorick>like pluto, all vanished!
14:14<planetmaker>Bjarni: so... would it? There's more to the universe than just this tiny system :)
14:14<@Bjarni>we are also losing moons
14:14<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Yes. Planets keep disappearing.
14:14<yorick>some are hit by a meteorite
14:14-!-lobster_MB [] has joined #openttd
14:14<Prof_Frink>Only The Doctor can possibly save us.
14:14<yorick>some are hit by Humans
14:14<yorick>and others are hit by Bjarni
14:15<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd have said The Doctor is likely the cause of most of these disappearings :p
14:15<Prof_Frink>We shall find out soon enough
14:15*Prof_Frink suspects Davros
14:15<@Bjarni>I'm not talking about science fiction
14:16<@Bjarni>Phobos really is on a route to it's own doom
14:16<Prof_Frink>Doctor Who is a documentary.
14:16<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, it said that in my TV schedule
14:16<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Well yes. Doom is set on... phobos or deimos. I forget which.
14:16<planetmaker>[20:14] <Bjarni> we are also losing moons <-- of that effect I'm not aware... on the contrary I'd say.
14:17<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: I just said it's Phobos :P
14:17<Eddi|zuHause2>some would be glad to get rid of a phobia :p
14:17<yorick>why does my onclick widget tend to always be 3?
14:18<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: enjoy the wait
14:19<@Bjarni>it will happen in around 11 million years
14:19<yorick>oh, by the fact I did if(widget=3)
14:19<@Bjarni>and then Mars will be the only planet in the solar system with a ring and solid surface
14:20<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Sooner if UAC start dicking about with teleporters.
14:20<@Belugas>not using enumification, yorick?
14:21<@Bjarni><yorick> oh, by the fact I did if(widget=3) <-- I did that once and quite magically the code worked anyway o_O
14:21<yorick>Belugas: no, I'm not enumifying a player list
14:21<@Belugas>haa.. ok
14:21<@Bjarni>I mean I really did test all possible actions available from the GUI and every single one worked
14:21<@Belugas>why do you care for widget 3 then?
14:22<yorick>because that's the Spectator one
14:22<@Belugas>so you need at least a name for that one,
14:22<@Bjarni>why not make an enum declaring that as the Spectator?
14:22<@Belugas>is it will make the code easier to read
14:22<@Bjarni>since 3 tells us very little
14:22<@Bjarni>Belugas: glad to see that we agree :)
14:23<@Belugas>so we have more than the B in commun ;)
14:23<@peter1138>i bet your 'rating' isn't super :D
14:24<Wolf01>*now* I'm starting to convert hotkeys to variables
14:25<@Belugas>bad news, it's STILL super :S
14:25<@peter1138>on to ten rapid now
14:26-!-Doorslammer [] has quit []
14:27<Wolf01>OR maybe I should look at how language strings are handled and do "teh same thing!©"
14:30<ccfreak2k>Someone beep me when Tiberius comes back around.
14:31<@Bjarni>ccfreak2k: beep
14:31<Noldo>was that test?
14:31<@Bjarni>maybe I should just script a beep every time somebody joins the channel. Eventually I will get it right
14:32<@Bjarni>besides he didn't say that we were not to beep before he arrives
14:35<yorick>what, DorpsGek doesn't meep?
14:35<SmatZ>meep meep
14:36<Prof_Frink>mip mip mip mip mip meeep!
14:36<yorick>DorpsGek is gek
14:36<yorick>but we knew that already
14:38-!-Madassasin [KraMer@] has joined #openttd
14:39-!-yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [je bent zelf gek]
14:40-!-yorick [] has joined #openttd
14:42<yorick>DorpsGek: it's in your name
14:42<yorick>and I agree to that
14:42<yorick>but you promised me not to kick on #openttd :)
14:44<Prof_Frink>What what, did someone say !password?
14:44<Prof_Frink>Why not?
14:44<@Bjarni>@seen pv2b
14:44<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: pv2b was last seen in #openttd 16 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 31 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <pv2b> i think thats the name
14:44-!-Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
14:44-!-Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
14:44<yorick>TrueBrain or Rubidium is controlling DorpsGek again to kick me
14:44<@Bjarni>!seen pv2b
14:45<@Bjarni>he haven't been around for a while
14:45<yorick>Bjarni: try !password
14:45<Madassasin>16 weeks...hmm...
14:45<yorick>and who's p2vb?
14:45<@Bjarni>who knows
14:45<@Bjarni>I'm looking for pv2b
14:45<Madassasin>@seen Patchman
14:45<@DorpsGek>Madassasin: I have not seen Patchman.
14:45<Madassasin>that explains it :))
14:45<Prof_Frink>Or not pv2b.
14:45<Prof_Frink>That is the question.
14:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r13632 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Use 'void *' for user-data of CircularTileSearch().
14:46<@Bjarni> <-- actually I was wondering if it's the same pv2b
14:47<yorick>IsValidPlayer doesn't actually check if the player exists, does it?
14:48<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm getting a timeout, Bjarni
14:49<@Bjarni>it's a link to a page in Swedish with a filmchip in Dutch with Swedish subtitles
14:49<@Bjarni>I'm not sure you would benefit from it
14:49<Eddi|zuHause2>dutch subtitles would have been easier ;)
14:50<@Bjarni>sometimes they speak Swedish with Dutch subtitles
14:50-!-Purno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:50<@Bjarni>basically Belgium wants to sue Sweden for listening to the internet
14:50<@Bjarni>... what?
14:50<Madassasin>listening to the internet?
14:50<@Bjarni>Madassasin: yeah that's what I thought
14:51<@Bjarni>basically they passed a law that allows the government to listen to emails and stuff while they are being transmitted over the internet
14:51<ccfreak2k>I didn't know one could "listen" to e-mails.
14:52<Madassasin>but it's only applicable in Sweden so what the heck does Belgium have to say?
14:52<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, i heard about the law
14:52<@Bjarni>so if you send a mail from England to Finland and it passes though Sweden there is a possibility that a computer scanned this mail for illegal content like planning terror
14:52<Eddi|zuHause2>it was about intercepting any communication going into or out of sweden
14:52<yorick>it's FLEMISH, NOT DUTCH!
14:52<ln>belgium is a former colony of sweden
14:52<@Bjarni>what do I know :P
14:52<Madassasin>except that mail is delivered directly from source to destination in 99% of the cases
14:52<@Bjarni>I don't know Flemish
14:53<Madassasin>eg from client to server
14:53<Madassasin>then client...
14:53<yorick>neither can I speak it, but I do mostly know what it means, and I know it sounds wierd
14:53<Madassasin>oh, I didn't read properly
14:53<@Bjarni>I like to know what Belgium actually plan to do
14:53<Madassasin>I'm wondering why the heck Belgium cares
14:54<@Bjarni>I mean.... it's not like there is an international law declaring that Sweden isn't allowed to read data in Sweden
14:54<Madassasin>so this resumes back to ?!
14:54<yorick>Bjarni: they read everything from and to sweden
14:54<Eddi|zuHause2>Madassasin: that does not take into account IP-routing
14:55<Madassasin>Eddi|zuHause2, and it doesn't take account something else, which I forgot cause I didn't really read that Bjarni said
14:56<Madassasin>so, who's playing in wwottdgd?
14:56<@Bjarni>I'm pretty sure that Sweden couldn't care less for some Belgian guy sending a hot mail to a Belgian woman
14:56<Madassasin>LOL true
14:56<yorick>yes, but they know it
14:56<Madassasin>bye Bjarni
14:58<Eddi|zuHause2>Bjarni: that sounds awfully like "who does nothing wrong has nothing to fear"
15:01<Eddi|zuHause2>that's me.
15:01<Madassasin>I know :P
15:01<Madassasin>playing in wwottdgd?
15:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm on strike.
15:02<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: If you send it *from* England, it's practically guaranteed to be scanned for terr'ists
15:02<yorick>G:/BoTTD/BoTTD/msys/home/ottdsrc/rcongui/src/network/network_gui.cpp:2066: error: invalid conversion from `int' to `PlayerID'
15:02<@peter1138>where? heh
15:03<yorick>in my rcon gui
15:03*Prof_Frink bowls at Eddi|zuHause2
15:03<yorick>PlayerId = widget - MPW_FIRST_COMPANY + 1;
15:04<yorick>then what does it need?
15:04<Eddi|zuHause2>a cast
15:04*Belugas nods
15:04<Prof_Frink>Of thousands!
15:04<Eddi|zuHause2>(PlayerID)(your formula)
15:05<Prof_Frink>Actually, we only need 3, everyone else can be CGI'd in.
15:06<Eddi|zuHause2>like the army at helms deep?
15:06<Eddi|zuHause2>PS: the 'not dutch' is definitely easier to understand than the swedish
15:08<yorick>it's flemish
15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>i said that...
15:09<yorick>no, you called it something with dutch
15:09<Eddi|zuHause2>i assume the difference between dutch and 'not dutch' is less than the difference between german and swiss-german
15:09<yorick>what's the difference between german and swiss-german
15:10<Eddi|zuHause2>you practically do not understand it at all...
15:10<yorick>ok, then it's less
15:10<Prof_Frink>yorick: swiss-german's slightly more neutral.
15:11<Prof_Frink>swiss-german. Very efficiently doing nothing.
15:11<yorick>german is too precise
15:12<yorick>I like latin, just precise enough
15:13<Prof_Frink>Latin's a dead language. Dead as dead can be. It killed off the Romans, then it killed me.
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15:13<yorick>it killed off the greek
15:14<yorick>PId = (PlayerID)widget - (PlayerID)4; <-- it still doesn't like me
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15:14<Eddi|zuHause2>it did not... the eastern half of the roman empire spoke greek
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15:14<Eddi|zuHause2>and that one lived 1000 years longer
15:15<yorick>it killed off the original greek
15:15<Eddi|zuHause2>yorick: no, i said (PlayerID)(formula)
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15:15<Madassasin>yorick, PId = (PlayerID) (widget - 4); /* this maybe? */
15:16<Eddi|zuHause2>yorick: again no, the "old greek" language died when the turks invaded
15:16<yorick>not the original greeks in italia
15:16<yorick>those were killed by the romans
15:17<Eddi|zuHause2>you are weird. i don't discuss with you any further
15:17<yorick>thank you
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15:20<yorick>Eddi: why do you have 4 names?
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15:24<Eddi|zuHause2>why wouldn't i?
15:24<Eddi|zuHause2>4 is really rare
15:24<yorick>because I only have 3?
15:25<yorick>one of those my AFK name
15:25<yorick>other one is ??
15:25<Eddi|zuHause2>due to a bug in my client it cycles between 2 and 3 on disconnects, not between 1 and 2
15:25<Prof_Frink>And the third is "Profit!"
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15:33<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13633 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix: restoring 'service at depot X' orders from the order backup failed.
15:33<yorick>could you update the move patch, so I could test my shiny gui, please?
15:34-!-a1270 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:37<yorick>planetmaker, any other suggestions?
15:37-!-lobster_MB [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
15:38-!-Osai is now known as Osai`off
15:40<Ammler>yorick: that patch is well updated from planetmaker, afaik.
15:40<yorick>the r13305 version doesn't compile anymore
15:40<Ammler>(you might need to check wwottdgd thread)
15:40<yorick>done that
15:41<yorick>oh, no, 13305
15:42<Ammler>hmm, then he updates the whole patch
15:42<Ammler>you need to ask him then, :-)
15:43<yorick>"The admin GUI would be a really nice addon, I think, it should be technically possible like you make your own (not dedicated) server... (If you use rcon <pw> GUI, all patch settings are changeable like you are the server self.)"<-- I've done that :) any other suggestions from you?
15:43<Ammler>but he isn't available while the football is on TV
15:43<fjb>Ah, the order backup bug got fixed. Great. I thought it was my fault when that happened to me last night.
15:44<yorick>fjb, only this backup
15:44<yorick>we have 4 other bugs with that backup :)
15:45-!-Osai`off is now known as Osai
15:46<fjb>Oh, don't know witch bug got me.
15:46<Prof_Frink>He's a witch! Burn him!
15:46<yorick>the service at depot X one
15:50<yorick>Ammler: do you have any suggestions?
15:50<yorick>I'm currently bored
15:50<yorick>a reset button on the company window?
15:51<yorick>suggestions for the rcon gui
15:51<yorick>I got kick, ban, move, change patch, pause
15:51<Prof_Frink>delete company
15:51<Ammler>yorick: in "not dedicated" servers, you have already the GUI
15:51<yorick>yes, I know
15:51<yorick>and that gui consists of that options
15:52<yorick>without the move
15:52<Ammler>maybe, it is possible to give someone the server status?
15:52<yorick>how do you mean?
15:52<Ammler>like he has on non dedicated?
15:52<yorick>and what should he be able to change then?
15:53<Ammler>same as on non dedicated servers
15:53<yorick>do you have a list of things?
15:53<Prof_Frink>yorick: Also, make "sudo" an alias for "rcon"
15:53<yorick>you can do that tho
15:53<yorick>alias sudo "rcon %+"
15:54<Ammler>oh, and yorick, remove the barrier for moving server
15:54<Ammler>to other companies
15:54<yorick>I think
15:54<Ammler>not sure about.
15:54<yorick>should ask planetmaker or dih
15:54<yorick>but I'd need an updated move patch first
15:55<Ammler>then it would be possible to set the company password with autopilot
15:55<yorick>company password of what?
15:56<yorick>dih has the nice move to spectator on join patch
15:56<Ammler>doesn't say COMPANY password already do that?
15:56<Ammler>I would like to have the ps unpassworded
15:57-!-a1270 [] has joined #openttd
15:57<Ammler>but if you like to build (join company), you need a pw.
15:58<yorick>I think one could call the hashpassword function on server too
15:58<yorick>and set the password
15:58<Ammler>already possible now, you mean?
15:59<yorick>patch the server with the password manager and add a call to GenerateCompanyPasswordHash
15:59<yorick>possibly adapting it a bit
16:00<Ammler>so not possible already :P
16:00<yorick>eeh, no
16:01<yorick>I have to go
16:01<yorick>but I shall be here tomorrow
16:02-!-yorick [] has quit [Quit: Bye! Poef!]
16:02<Eddi|zuHause2>lmao, picture's out :p
16:04<@peter1138>picture's out?
16:04<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r13634 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_house.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Let house var 0x65 ignore the house, the variable is queried for.
16:06<Mucht>peter1138: picture from basel
16:07<@peter1138>who what?
16:08<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13635 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_cargolist.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: minor typo (Yexo)
16:09<eekee>hmm.. what's the point of having a vehicle renew button if it only works when autorenew is on?
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not a renew button, it's a replace button
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2>and you have to set up a replacement rule first
16:09<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13636 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIGroupList, to list your groups (Yexo)
16:11<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: I see. You've got me thinking about replace rules now
16:13<@Belugas>don't think
16:16<Eddi|zuHause2>ooh... i have an idea: ctrl+click on the replace button should open the replace window ;)
16:17<@Belugas>why didn't though of that before ??
16:24<frosch123>but keep in mind, that everyone will expect, that the replacement rules will only apply to vehicles in that particular depot
16:25<frosch123>Like with autoreplace in the vehicle list of stations or shared orders in the past
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16:27<Eddi|zuHause2>and is that impossible to accomplish?
16:27<+glx>there are already problems with global and group replace
16:27<frosch123>IIRC I fixed some of those
16:29<frosch123>(those which were reported by Eddi|zuHause2 IIRC)
16:30<Eddi|zuHause2>i reported one quite a while ago where having different rules in global and group caused the replacement to fail completely
16:31*frosch123 also meant those
16:33<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: Nice idea, but the button can also replace because of age
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16:36<ccfreak2k>glx, do you happen to know if opengl auxillary color buffers (GL_AUXi) are created, or are there a fixed number the whole time?
16:36<+glx>I know nothing about opengl
16:37<dragonhorseboy>how're you anyhow glx?
16:38<Eddi|zuHause2>but you are openglx :p
16:40*eekee wonders if glx calls MiniGLX mini-me
16:40<dragonhorseboy>'glx' could mean something different than gl for what we knows :p
16:41*glx hates useless HL
16:43<Eddi|zuHause2>HL = GL+10 (Base 36)
16:45<@Belugas>too much of it and out The Door you go
16:46<frosch123>sounds like drugs
16:46<@Belugas>"When the Music is Over..."
16:47<Eddi|zuHause2>the music won't be over for a while...
16:47<Eddi|zuHause2>they're all singing "Finale!"
16:48<frosch123>Do I have to close the shutters?
16:48*frosch123 is living right between the two parties
16:48<+glx>I didn't see the end of the match
16:49<Eddi|zuHause2>there's only one party here...
16:49<Eddi|zuHause2>but they are not to overhear
16:49<fjb>Same here.
16:50*Belugas guess that there is now football talks in #openttd
16:50*frosch123 is more worried about his windows
16:50<Eddi|zuHause2>nobody said "football" except for you :p
16:51<@Belugas>soccer then? :P
16:51<@Belugas>or foot
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16:51*Belugas shuts up and go back to work
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16:59<fjb>Hm, the new bridge set ist great.
17:02*Belugas yawns
17:03*Belugas grabs his stuff
17:03*Belugas goes home
17:03*Belugas waves good night
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17:27<ln>about the "No idiots" part of the topic... is it ok to have one idiot?
17:28<+glx>you can stay here, yes
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17:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: miham * r13637 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
17:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-06-25 23:36:50
17:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 9 fixed by tucalipe (9)
17:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 25 fixed by thetitan (11), kokobongo (14)
17:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: catalan - 9 fixed, 4 changed by arnaullv (13)
17:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: croatian - 5 fixed by knovak (5)
17:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: czech - 8 fixed, 9 changed by Hadez (17)
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17:39<alexboom>hi all
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17:54<ln>what if all diesel vehicles broke down indefinitely in 2020, when oil runs out?
17:57<Eddi|zuHause2>random event: oil-crisis... running costs for diesel vehicles multiply
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause2>ln: just because oil runs out doesn't necessarily mean that fuel runs out, the germans had a fairly successful program to produce fuel from coal in the 1940's
17:59<Eddi|zuHause2>just the costs were significantly higher than producing fuel from oil
17:59<Eddi|zuHause2>which might change with the increasing oil price
18:01<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: Also, increased oil price means smaller oilfields become economically viable
18:02<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, for a similar reason germany does not want to close down all coal mines (in the Ruhr area), because it might become viable again in the future
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18:04<thingwath>and you wouldn't have anything to run on non-electrified lines, without diesel vehicles
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>sure, there are plenty of operational steam engines ;)
18:06<thingwath>in the game yes, in real world no :)
18:06<Prof_Frink>In real world, yes.
18:06<ln>i suppose there are more operational steam engines in germany than thingwath can imagine.
18:06<Eddi|zuHause2>also, germany had used battery powered vehicles for a long time, they'd probably have no big problem reviving that technology
18:07<thingwath>maybe in germany, but in czech republic there are ~20-30 operational steam engines
18:07<Prof_Frink>Or at least in common rumour/conspiracy theory the MOD keep a number of steam engines in a bunker in case of global thermonuclear war wiping out electirc generation and diesel supplies
18:07<Eddi|zuHause2>the russians maintained a big fleet of former german (captured) steam engines in poland
18:08<ln>it's not rocket science to build new steam engines.
18:08<thingwath>there is not even a infrastructure for steam engines
18:08<Prof_Frink>ln: I dunno, rapid heating, expanding gases used for propulsion
18:08<Prof_Frink>Sounds like rocket science to me :)
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>actually, one of first successful steam engines was called "rocket" ;)
18:09<Prof_Frink>Good ol' Stephenson
18:11<Eddi|zuHause2>but the real problem with steam engines is not finding a significant amount of them for running the network, but the pollution they cause
18:12<Prof_Frink>Well, that all depends on what fuel you use
18:13<thingwath>dunno where we would find hundreds of steam engines, but ok :)
18:14<Prof_Frink>heritage lines.
18:15<thingwath>i said how many steam engines we have left, there is really nothing more, in CZ :)
18:17<Prof_Frink>You're screwed. Sorry.
18:18<Eddi|zuHause2>i think the underdeveloped public transport network will break down from increased usage long before fuel runs actually out
18:19<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: It's impossible for the british rail netowrk to break down.
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>it already is :p
18:19<Prof_Frink>That would involve it working in the first place.
18:19<@Bjarni> <thingwath> i said how many steam engines we have left, there is really nothing more, in CZ :) <-- that sucks
18:20<thingwath>Bjarni: they have no real use and they are very expensive to maintain...
18:20<@Bjarni>this means that I have more than your whole area?
18:20<thingwath>steam engines were just scrapped, when they left the service
18:20-!-XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
18:20<thingwath>or used as a boilers or something like that
18:21<@Bjarni>when did you retire them?
18:21<thingwath>late seventies, mostly
18:22<@Bjarni>Denmark officially discontinued steam usage in 1968 and retired the engines until 1972. However the last commercial steam train drove in 1979
18:22<@Bjarni>and being a poor railroad they didn't retire it even though they severely broke it by derailing
18:23<thingwath>well, poor railways...
18:23<@Bjarni>a few years ago they realised that it's unlikely that they would need it anymore and it's now in the hands of a vintage railroad operator who is repairing it
18:24<@Bjarni>you see when you get a great working 2-8-2 tank engine designed for freight you will not let it go :)
18:24<Prof_Frink>Steam trains have been sighted on the british mainlines after the turn of the century
18:25<thingwath>yep, in summer, there are many historical trains
18:25<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: I don't think they count as mass transportation anymore :P
18:25<thingwath>but not in regular service
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18:25<@Bjarni>British rails officially switched from steam to diesel in 1960 and they got rid of the last steam locomotive in 1967
18:26<@Bjarni>ccfreak2k: beep
18:26<thingwath>well, in fact, even many of our diesel engines could be sold to museum :)
18:26<@Bjarni>most likely
18:26<@Bjarni>if the museums had any money
18:26<thingwath>oldest of them were manufactured in early sixties
18:27<@Bjarni>I know a who who bought a diesel locomotive from 1952 for his freight company
18:27<thingwath>but they make beautiful noise
18:27<@Bjarni>which increased the number of diesel locomotives to... 5 or something like that
18:28<@Bjarni>none of them feels like modern diesel on the inside ;)
18:28<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, I've been tinkering with the code.
18:28<ccfreak2k>Also thanks Bjarni,
18:28<TiberiusTeng>oh yeah? :D
18:28<ccfreak2k>GLEE_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two returns 0.
18:28<Prof_Frink>Mmmm, one-two-five
18:28<ccfreak2k>GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two returns 1.
18:29<ccfreak2k>GX_AUX_BUFFERS is always 0.
18:29<@Bjarni>ccfreak2k: you were in luck. I left IRC shortly after you requested the beep and I returned 6 minutes before I beeped
18:29<ccfreak2k>Which explains why operations involving GL_AUX0 fail.
18:29<ccfreak2k>The question I can't seem to answer is: where did GL_AUXi go?
18:30<@Bjarni> <thingwath> but they make beautiful noise <-- that depends on who you are and where you are
18:30-!-Osai is now known as Osai`off
18:30<thingwath>me and close to the engine
18:31<@Bjarni>like if where is the engine room or on the platform
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18:31<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, I think you should keep using GLEE_* variables since they're the ones being set by GLee after check ...
18:32<@Bjarni> <thingwath> me and close to the engine <-- it also depends on the state of the engine... if it is out of alignment then even great sounding engines are... well noisy
18:32<@Bjarni>and vibrates
18:32<TiberiusTeng>from the glDrawBuffer manpage: (GL_AUX_BUFFERS is not the upper limit; use glGet
18:32<TiberiusTeng> to query the number of available aux buffers.)
18:32<ccfreak2k>I did.
18:33<thingwath>not in engine room :)
18:33<TiberiusTeng>hmm ... and you got 0 ? strange.
18:33<ccfreak2k>glGetIntegerv(GL_AUX_BUFFERS, &numbuffers);
18:33<@Bjarni>I remember one engine (luckily not my own) that started up. It was so loud that you had problems even yelling to the person next to you and the vibrations hurt my stomach... I left ;)
18:33<@Bjarni>for the record: I was on the outside
18:34<thingwath> :)
18:34<thingwath>well, it's loud, that is true
18:35<thingwath>to live close to some electrified line is much better :)
18:35<@Bjarni>same here
18:35<@Bjarni>yet a diesel freight train just passed
18:36<thingwath>i've got only trams here
18:37<@Bjarni>looks like those engines smoke a lot
18:37<thingwath>they are old :)
18:37<@Bjarni>that's not the same as they should smoke
18:37<alexboom>errrr i have a list of the 400 biggest french towns, but i'm too noob to make a newgrf by myself, would anyone be willing to build a newgrf based on this list? i don't realize if it's difficult or not (it seems, but it may be just me)
18:38<thingwath>i don't know, but when they were built, nobody cared
18:38<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, try this instead of Everest:
18:39<@Bjarni> <-- 50 years old and look at the smoke
18:39<TiberiusTeng>and I just googled a bit, seems old ATI cards do not have AUX buffers support ...
18:39<ccfreak2k>Depends on your definition of "old".
18:39<TiberiusTeng>perhaps we have to use something like pbuffers instead
18:39<TiberiusTeng>for what I've seen, X1600 got 2 AUX buffers
18:40<TiberiusTeng>and I used it simply because my card have it, nothing special ...
18:41<ccfreak2k>I tried everything I could to find that kind of information. :|
18:41<thingwath>Bjarni: I just don't know :) how powerful is this one?
18:41<TiberiusTeng>anyway I think the map-scrolling problem should be solved first, we can come up another palette-animation method for ATI cards later
18:41<@Bjarni>thingwath: 2*375 HP
18:41<ccfreak2k>Since the scrolling uses AUX buffers, doesn't that make it relevant? :)
18:42<TiberiusTeng>actually not
18:42<TiberiusTeng>if we used AUX buffers, we should scroll them as well
18:42<TiberiusTeng>but if we are not using it ... we can just ignore it
18:42<TiberiusTeng>i.e. scroll backbuffer is enough
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18:42<ccfreak2k>Ok, so GL_ARB_draw_buffers is not there.
18:43<thingwath>749 has like 1000 kW, i think
18:43<ccfreak2k>I think.
18:43<ccfreak2k>This thing is put together in a weird way.
18:43<TiberiusTeng>you should test for GLEE_ARB_draw_buffers or GLEE_ATI_draw_buffers
18:43<ccfreak2k>No way, ARB_draw_buffers IS there in this OpenGL Extensions Viewer thing.
18:43<TiberiusTeng>if we have aux buffer: draw RGB to backbuffer, colorindex to AUX0
18:44<Eddi|zuHause2><thingwath> oldest of them were manufactured in early sixties <- germany had a famous network of diesel driven express trains in the 30's
18:44<TiberiusTeng>if we DON'T have aux buffer: draw RGB + looked-up RGB together to backbuffer
18:44<ccfreak2k>Also, I didn't "test" it so much as printed the boolean value of GLEE_ and GL_.
18:44<TiberiusTeng>hmm ...
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18:45<TiberiusTeng>now this one makes me wonder
18:46<ccfreak2k>In order, I get yes yes yes no yes 0.
18:47<TiberiusTeng>hmm ... yeah. perhaps I should check EXT_copy_texture too ...
18:48<TiberiusTeng>with texture atlas in place, non-power-of-two is not a big issue anymore
18:48<@Bjarni>thingwath: <-- this is what the engines look like. Remember that there are two of them.
18:48<ccfreak2k>I just included whatever I saw was in use.
18:49<TiberiusTeng>since we only have framebuffer buffers (?) can benefit from it
18:49<ccfreak2k>Bjarni, I wouldn't mind one of those in my car.
18:49<@Bjarni>I don't think they smoke that much considering the age and size and that movie is recorded while driving uphill
18:49<ccfreak2k>Although I'm sure my car would mind.
18:49<@Bjarni>ccfreak2k: hehe... I bet you would mind the startup time though
18:49<@Bjarni>and the half a ton of batteries needed to start it
18:50<TiberiusTeng>WGL_ARB_pbuffer is difficult to utilize (and I believe it's Windows-specific)
18:50<TiberiusTeng>but there isn't many cards supporting FBO ... ouch
18:50<thingwath>well, maybe there are some filters or something like that, i don't know :)
18:50<@Bjarni>there aren't
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18:51<@Bjarni>btw this is *MY* engine :D
18:51<@Bjarni>hence the reason why I have pictures of the inside
18:52<TiberiusTeng>ahh. X850 do support FBO
18:52<TiberiusTeng>now if we create an FBO, bind it to second draw target, and use it just like AUX0 ...
18:52<thingwath>well, 749 still doesn't some as much as soviet-built 781 :)
18:52<TiberiusTeng>by the way, ccfreak2k, did you solved the scrolling issue ?
18:53<ccfreak2k>I was absorbed in the AUX buffer since I thought that was why the scrolling was having issues.
18:53<@Bjarni>Soviet diesels smoke a lot for some reason
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18:54<thingwath>but those are long time out of service (even though they are younger, CD hates 6-axle engines)
18:54<@Bjarni>I don't think they would be allowed in the west with the modern standards
18:54<@Bjarni>maybe not in Asia either
18:54<ccfreak2k>I also theorized that ATi cards don't have ARB_precision_hint_fastest might have something to do with them not supporting full precision something or rather.
18:54<@Bjarni>what's wrong with 6-axle engines?
18:55<TiberiusTeng>ahh. that one. I think I was misleaded by the error message
18:55<thingwath>thay say it causes too much wear to the track
18:55<@Bjarni>that's Cennential, the 8 axle diesel :P
18:55<ccfreak2k>I remember because nVidia cards, by default, use full precision in pixel shaders, leading to performance loss.
18:55<ccfreak2k>That's about the extent of my knowledge on that, though.
18:55<TiberiusTeng>try enable ARB_precision_hint_fastest AND change the following ARB_draw_buffers into ATI_draw_buffers
18:55<Eddi|zuHause2> <- pre-war electrics and one of the diesel trainsets
18:56<thingwath>they rather use two 4-axle engines
18:56<TiberiusTeng>I believe the error's for ARB_draw_buffer, not ARB_precision_hint_fastest
18:56<@Bjarni>6 axles should be ok unless you build your railroad with too sharp turns
18:56<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, we did that last night, remember? ARB_precision_hint_fastest was invalid.
18:56<Eddi|zuHause2>but i don't know if the diesel trainset is actually operational
18:56<thingwath>they have even tried Bo-Bo-Bo engine
18:56<thingwath>instead of Co-Co
18:56<thingwath>it's very nice machine :)
18:57<@Bjarni>the middle bogie is a pain
18:57<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, yes, but omitting ARB/ATI_draw_buffers without removing result.color[0/1] will cause errors too
18:57<@Bjarni>unless it's two chassises
18:57<@Bjarni>so the chassis can bend
18:57<@Bjarni>then it would be doable
18:57<Eddi|zuHause2>that would be helpful ;)
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18:58<ccfreak2k>We didn't omit ARB_draw_buffers, though. It was just changed to ATI_draw_buffers.
18:58<@Bjarni>that's the stupid design
18:58<thingwath>they are still in regular service for a mining company
18:58<@Bjarni>the middle bogie has to move sideways when the locomotive passes a curve
18:58<ccfreak2k>One of the shaders had an error while compiling, but the others compiled without issue.
18:58<@Bjarni>meaning the connection between the bogie and the locomotive is really complicated, expensive to build and expensive to maintain
18:59<@Bjarni>and I wouldn't trust it for reliability either
18:59<thingwath>SD likes them, and even ordered some others after the first delivery :)
18:59<ccfreak2k>"While you're reading about FBOs, take our weight test!"
19:00*Bjarni notes not to buy stocks in SD
19:00<TiberiusTeng>seems it can't be used as one of multiple drawing targets ...
19:00<TiberiusTeng>now I wonder if we can draw to BACK_RIGHT
19:00<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: the green locomotive is the oldest, then the front one, right?
19:01<TiberiusTeng>(is there anyone plan to play OpenGL OTTD with stereo glasses? :p)
19:01<@Bjarni>then the steamer and the newest is the DMU thingie in the middle
19:01<@Bjarni>at least I think that's the age order but I'm not sure
19:01<alexboom>good night every body
19:01<Eddi|zuHause2>they are both E 18, so the one with the lower number should be older
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19:01*Bjarni rewatch the clip
19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>and the diesel trainset is from roughly the same time
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19:03<@Bjarni>which makes the steam locomotive the newest part of the train?
19:03<@Bjarni>thought it's not surprising
19:03<TiberiusTeng>hmm, it doesn't work. GL_BACK_RIGHT is not a solution.
19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't know much about the steam engine
19:04<@Bjarni>looks like a BR52
19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>i thought it said 58
19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>no, 52 8154
19:04<@Bjarni>we should both read the text :P
19:04<@Bjarni>E 18 047 mit E 18 31 und SVZ 137 "Leipzig" im Schlepp und BR 52 8154 hintenan
19:05<Eddi|zuHause2>there was an 8 ;)
19:05<TiberiusTeng>seems we can bind FBO color attachments (textures) as draw buffers ... great.
19:05<Eddi|zuHause2>but i don't know when the 52's were produced
19:06<@Bjarni>it was somewhat late
19:06<@Bjarni>it's an advanced BR50
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>E 18 and SVT 137 were from the mid to late 30's
19:06<@Bjarni>Build date 1942 – 1945 <-- wikipedia
19:07<Eddi|zuHause2>then it was obviously a wartime locomotive ;)
19:07<@Bjarni>Grand total: 6,161 units (approximately) <-- number of built locomotives
19:09<@Bjarni>according to wikipedia BR52 is a BR50 built without the gadgets they couldn't get during the war
19:09<@Bjarni>I have always been told that it was an advanced BR50
19:10<@Bjarni>but the wikipedia version makes more sense
19:10<Eddi|zuHause2>"perfection is not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to leave out"
19:10<@Bjarni>BR50 in Belgium, NMBS/SNCB class 25; in Denmark, DSB class N. <--- yeah we got 12 of them and scrapped all of them
19:11<@Bjarni>war compensation
19:11<Eddi|zuHause2>well, if things have been used in the war, they are probably not very useful anymore afterwards :p
19:12<@Bjarni>they had to give a lot of them to Belgium and they didn't need them (now that was a clever move, taking the locomotives from somebody who really needs them and give them to somebody who don't know what to do with them)
19:12<@Bjarni>so they sold 12 of them to Denmark for nearly nothing
19:12<@Bjarni>and they pulled heavy freight for years
19:13<@Bjarni>it's the strongest freight steam locomotive ever used in Denmark
19:13<@Bjarni>too strong it seemed because they lowered the boiler pressure from 16 to 12 kg/cm^2
19:14<ccfreak2k>Also, I updated the opengl blitter topic with my binary for people to test.
19:14<@Bjarni>Denmark got 4 locomotives as direct wartime damage compensation. 3 BR42 (I think it was) was left behind and we just started using them as our own
19:15<@Bjarni>we also got one far less known locomotive and... well they never managed to get it operational again
19:15<@Bjarni>so it ended up being a wagon with a boiler used to deliver heating steam to passenger wagons when no locomotive was connected to them
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19:16<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, thanks!
19:17<@Bjarni> <-- somebody wants to make big stuff
19:17<@Bjarni>it screwed the switches :P
19:17<ccfreak2k>It's mostly to collect stats, although something else useful might come from it.
19:17<TiberiusTeng>IMO the scrolling problem is not that complex ... since it only used copy_texture functionality, and almost the same as mouse cursor background processing ...
19:18<ccfreak2k>That's implemented in uh
19:18<ccfreak2k>ScrollBuffer right?
19:19<@Bjarni>It was prone to frequent derailments, and despite its large number of wheels, it was still too heavy for the track. As a result of its long wheelbase, the AA20-1 also spread the track and wrecked the points of the switches it passed over. It was too big to fit on the turntables, too powerful for the couplers in use at the time and unable to run at full power for very long due to its undersized boiler. <--- gee I wonder why they only
19:19<@Bjarni> built one :P
19:19<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, i read of this engine somewhere
19:20<@Bjarni>it's late
19:20<@Bjarni>I need my beauty sleep
19:21<@Bjarni>either that or I need regular sleep because I have to get up in the morning
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19:28<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, glTexImage2D() is throwing GL_INVALID_OPERATION (I assume), but the OpenGL specs state that it shouldn't.
19:28<ccfreak2k>Or someting.
19:29<TiberiusTeng>yep. really puzzles me.
19:29<ccfreak2k>It makes me wonder if it throws that if there's some other undefined error.
19:29<TiberiusTeng>I'll write a macro to glGetError() when calling every OpenGL macros in debug build only.
19:30<TiberiusTeng>or I did something wrong with other functions ...
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19:32<Digitalfox>ccfreak2k and TiberiusTeng, I have post a screen shot of command line when running Open in Debug mode on a Radeon 9800XT, hope it helps :)
19:33<ccfreak2k>I was hoping for a text dump, but good enough.
19:33<TiberiusTeng>9800XT does not have EXT_copy_texture ?!
19:34<ccfreak2k>Apparently not.
19:34<TiberiusTeng>that scares me.
19:35<TiberiusTeng>but looks like it do have glCopyTex* functions, else it will display black screen ...
19:36<ccfreak2k>Is there some specific point where querying GLEE_ would be best? I did it in b->PostDriverInit();.
19:39<TiberiusTeng>there's no difference I believe.
19:40<TiberiusTeng>but caching the result in PostDriverInit() would be better ...
19:40<Digitalfox>Would the log from command line from a radeon 9600 mobility also help?
19:40<ccfreak2k>I didn't think so, but I wanted to be sure.
19:40<ccfreak2k>Digitalfox, anything would.
19:40<ccfreak2k>Whatever runs it.
19:40<Digitalfox>will post that also
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19:41<TiberiusTeng>if the button text color in title screen is black, then there's hope. :p
19:41<TiberiusTeng>ouch, one second late
19:42<ccfreak2k>Yeah the text looks like that when AF or FSAA (I dunno which one) is enabled.
19:44<Digitalfox_>TiberiusTeng I'm still here :)
19:45<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, disabling AF/FSAA will cure it?
19:45<TiberiusTeng>if it does, then I don't have to dig into texture coordinates again :p
19:45<ccfreak2k>Keeping it from being forced makes the text look normal blocky again.
19:46<ccfreak2k>So the text is fine. The colors and scrolling and what not are still erroneous, though.
19:46<TiberiusTeng>I was thinking that I did something wrong with texture coordinates ... fortunately it's not my fault this time
19:47<Digitalfox_>ok 9600 post uploaded
19:48<Digitalfox_>this is with radeon oficial drivers on 9800 and 9600, but not the most updated like with 3 or 4 months
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19:52<ccfreak2k>Actually, I can't seem to replicate the behavior again..
19:53<ccfreak2k>Actually I can't replicate it AT ALL.
19:53<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, could you mention that AF/FSAA thing in your post containing the binary ?
19:53<ccfreak2k>If I turn on my super deluxe settings, the text just looks fucked up in general.
19:53<ccfreak2k>Instead of the nice smooth anti-aliasing.
19:53<ccfreak2k>Not that openttd would benefit from FSAA. :)
19:54<TiberiusTeng>well I think the driver tried to interpolate 'color indexes'
19:54<TiberiusTeng>which will certainly blow up the graphics ...
19:55<TiberiusTeng>because in early development I once forgot to set GL_NEAREST on color index textures, and the result looks exactly the same.
19:55<ccfreak2k>Mobility 9600 support copy textures.
19:55<TiberiusTeng>and it made me spend about 5 hours tracing the issue ...........
19:56<ccfreak2k>Well, it claims support.
19:56<TiberiusTeng>if the card doesn't support copy textures, mouse cursor will blow up
19:56<ccfreak2k>Digitalfox, Mobility 9600 on Windows, right?
19:57<ccfreak2k>That's why I added "claims".
19:57<Digitalfox>yes XP SP3
19:57<ccfreak2k>If there's one thing I've learned from this experience, it's that "claims" and "supports" are mutually independent.
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20:00<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, I completely agrees with you ...
20:02<@Belugas>!seen roujin
20:02-!-Madassasin [KraMer@] has joined #openttd
20:02<@Belugas>@seen roujin
20:02<@DorpsGek>Belugas: roujin was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 8 hours, 30 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <Roujin> i have to go off now, see you later
20:03<Madassasin>@seen LordAzamath
20:03<@DorpsGek>Madassasin: LordAzamath was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 2 days, 6 hours, 30 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <LordAzamath> leet
20:03<Madassasin>ouch lol
20:03<Madassasin>@seen Azamath
20:03<@DorpsGek>Madassasin: I have not seen Azamath.
20:04<Madassasin>oh well :(
20:04<+glx>@seen LA
20:04<@DorpsGek>glx: LA was last seen in #openttd 9 hours, 7 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <LA> / * Yorick faints /
20:04<+glx>use the right nick ;)
20:04<Madassasin>oh :)
20:05<Madassasin>:P who could guess
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20:08<Madassasin>one q, are the generic trams included in the trunk source?
20:09<+glx>only in "stable" releases
20:09<Madassasin>ok, good, I don't have to delete another file :)
20:10<Madassasin>"stable" indeed...for me even bleeding edge trunk with custom compiler switches and patches applied has been stable :))
20:10<+glx>"stable" is non beta nor RC
20:11<Madassasin>Yea I know
20:11<ccfreak2k>GeForce 7950 GT.
20:11<ccfreak2k>Using my "ati-specific" binary.
20:11<ccfreak2k>He claims everyone looks as it should.
20:12<TiberiusTeng>seems not quite different than my 7600GT :p
20:12<ccfreak2k>Rather, everyTHING looks as is should.
20:12<Madassasin>another q, why is Os (favor small code) set in VC++ 2008 instead of Ot (favor fast code)? If you disable link-time code generation (which IMO doesn't add much speed improvement and adds a ton of useless data to the executable) you would get back some good space
20:14<TiberiusTeng>ahh. EXT_copy_texture has integrated into core OpenGL since 1.1 ...
20:15<TiberiusTeng>Madassasin, I didn't benchmarked it, but my experience is that smaller code would actually faster in many cases.
20:15<TiberiusTeng>think cache size.
20:16<Madassasin>with most HDDs a few MB/s, it wouldn't be much stuff anyway
20:16<TiberiusTeng>no, I mean cache vs. main memory access :p
20:16<Madassasin>oh :P
20:16<TiberiusTeng>but you're right, it really depends.
20:16<Madassasin>bleh, not really noticeable
20:17<Madassasin>but that little Os -> Ot does some wonders :)
20:17<TiberiusTeng>it'll make a big difference if some ofent used codes can't completely fit into the cache, or they collide into each other due to associativity.
20:17<TiberiusTeng>or some really big iterative algorithms ... think of pathfinding, etc. in OTTD
20:18<TiberiusTeng>perhaps you can bench it and check which one's better for OTTD? :p
20:18<Madassasin>it does some wonders with aniamted water & fast forward
20:18<Madassasin>and that water animation bogs down everythng
20:19<TiberiusTeng>fast-forward is almost the 'benchmarking' mode :p
20:19<Madassasin>yea :P
20:19<TiberiusTeng>animation's pretty, that's why I insist that OpenGL blitter should support it before release :p
20:20<Madassasin>Hmm, the project file has some switches on or off at odd times...
20:20<Madassasin>If the OGL blitter does some significant improvement for 8bpp tell me :P
20:21<Madassasin>but on Windows OpenGL is translated back to DirectX, just like Wine does DirectX -> OpenGL.
20:21<Madassasin>So why would ti be faster than using DirectX? (currently done via SDL I guess)
20:22<ccfreak2k>I was sort of thinking the same thing, but that reduces portability.
20:22<TiberiusTeng>it did, on my machine.
20:22<Madassasin>That's good
20:23<TiberiusTeng>the difference is small in new game
20:23<Madassasin>but for 8bpp, does it add a significant improvment?
20:23<TiberiusTeng>but huge when I loaded something like openttdcoop final save games :p
20:23<Madassasin>I usually don't have lots of trains :P
20:24<Madassasin>must be forced for openttdcoop save games =))
20:24<Madassasin>WTF?! strgen.exe is not a valid win32 application?
20:24<Madassasin>SVN is corrupting fiels now :(
20:25<Madassasin>funny that strgen is compiled directly :|
20:26<TiberiusTeng>but for me, the reason to use OpenGL is actually better transparent buildings for my taste
20:26<Madassasin>I suggest that someone compiles on VC++ with /W4
20:26<Madassasin>Bleh, I'm sticking with 8bpp
20:27<TiberiusTeng>function wise, it should be compared with 32bpp-anim, since 8bpp blitters won't display PNG sprites
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20:27<ccfreak2k>Madassasin, I can do that,
20:27<ccfreak2k>I seem to be the only person in the world who uses VS8.
20:28<TiberiusTeng>and when zoomed out 8x in a 1024x768 window, 20fps sounds not really impressive, and yes, 8bpp blitters can do a little better than that
20:28<Madassasin>I'm using VS9
20:28<TiberiusTeng>but 32bpp-anim will do 0.5fps on my machine in that situation ........
20:29<Madassasin>ccfreak2k, switch to /W4 and watch the log skyrocket with warnings like constant expressions and unreferenced params, and others too
20:29<Madassasin>1 - 2>..\src\tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp(166) : warning C4018: '<=' : signed/unsigned mismatch
20:29<ccfreak2k>I'm trying to find out what /W4 DOES.
20:30<Madassasin>makes the compiler imitate DaleStan
20:30<TiberiusTeng>don't tell me you always write code for -pedantic-errors :p
20:30<Madassasin>LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file 'dxguid.lib' --> O_o Heck, I have DX SDK!
20:30<Madassasin>I do :P
20:30<TiberiusTeng>ahhh impressive! (salutes)
20:30<Madassasin>Cause i'm a weairdo
20:30<ccfreak2k>So I guess /W4 is like -Wall?
20:31<TiberiusTeng>cl do have /Wall too
20:32<TiberiusTeng>and .../WX treat warnings as errors
20:32<TiberiusTeng>try /Wall /WX :P
20:32<TiberiusTeng>since I don't have ATI cards in hand, I'd rather go playing with mipmaps ...
20:33<SmatZ>Madassasin: return bridge_len <= ( ? 100U : 16U);
20:33<SmatZ>does this "fix" that warning?
20:33<Madassasin>one second
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20:33<ccfreak2k>Isn't <= a comparison?
20:34<SmatZ>I really wonder how compilers can't convert constants one the fly :-x
20:34<SmatZ>ccfreak2k: it is
20:34<ccfreak2k>It would return a bool.
20:34<ccfreak2k>I get it.
20:35<Madassasin>SmatZ GCC does...M$'s stuff likes not to :(
20:36<Madassasin>yea clean now
20:36<Madassasin>I guess i'll make a patch to correct the /W4 (-Wall) warnings :)
20:37<Madassasin>I'm gonna kill M$....
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20:37<Madassasin>LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file 'dxguid.lib'
20:37<SmatZ>Madassasin: thanks :)
20:38<SmatZ>Madassasin: MSVC is at level of gcc2, that gives a warning at that line, too ;-)
20:38<Madassasin>damn VC9, I should have stayed with VC8, as this one won't look through subfolders for a damn file
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20:40*Madassasin is :O at the portability of OTTD
20:41<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r13638 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: signed/unsigned warning for MSVC9 and gcc2
20:41<SmatZ>:O ?
20:41<ccfreak2k>smatz, VS8 warns there too. :)
20:41<SmatZ>ah, surprised! :)
20:41<SmatZ>aha errr...
20:41<SmatZ>I didn't say other compilers dont warn :-)
20:42<Madassasin>I'm gonna make a patch for better VS8 & VS9 projects and to fix those warning like constant expression or unreferenced parameter.
20:42<ccfreak2k>It's just easier to mention the specific compilers that you dislike, right? :)
20:42<Madassasin>but first, sleep
20:43<Madassasin>it's nearly 4 am xD
20:43<ccfreak2k>Actually, that was the only warning I ever saw generated.
20:43<ccfreak2k>Except for some of TiberiusTeng's opengl code.
20:43<Madassasin>well, good morning guys :))
20:43<SmatZ>Madassasin: I am not sure if that patch would be accepted
20:43<SmatZ>night Madassasin :)
20:44<SmatZ>we have that warnings intentionally turned off by -Wno-unused-parameter
20:44<SmatZ>for gcc
20:44<SmatZ>I think it is better readable to have parameters named but unused
20:44<SmatZ>I don't care that much :)
20:45<Madassasin>I'm still wondering why they're added if not used
20:45<SmatZ>does it warn in default compiler settings?
20:45<TiberiusTeng>semms I have to come up a way for those sprintf()s before it even be considered merging :p
20:45<SmatZ>probably some function template
20:45<ccfreak2k>VS8 wans on unused variables. I dunno about parameters.
20:45<TiberiusTeng>but god I hate #define's
20:45<SmatZ>like all patch settings callbacks have to use parameters (int32, int32) or so
20:45<Madassasin>on default no, but i' an error killer xD
20:46<SmatZ>or commands have to have parameters (tile, p1, p2, flags) or so
20:46<ccfreak2k>"Culture" is set to Swedish (0x41d).
20:46<Madassasin>ok, NOREF(my_param); or my_param;
20:46<+glx>we used to treat warnings as errors for MSVC
20:46<+glx>ccfreak2k: yes ludde is from sweden
20:47<ccfreak2k>I also know a few Swedes.
20:47<ccfreak2k>Something something borglyft.
20:48<Madassasin>alright, bye people
20:48<ccfreak2k>I wonder why the sprite shader throws an error...
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21:06<TiberiusTeng>ccfreak2k, I remember I gave you a version that display shader-compilation errors ?
21:06<TiberiusTeng>error messages, I mean
21:09<ccfreak2k>You gave me some lines to paste, but I long since lost those.
21:12<TiberiusTeng>ahh, nevermind. the one with glGenPrograms ...
21:15<ccfreak2k>The only invalid operation I get now is glBindProgramARB.
21:16<ccfreak2k>With "sprite".
21:17<ccfreak2k>I tried using this:
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21:47<TiberiusTeng>I think it's not glBindProgramARB generating the error
21:48<TiberiusTeng>since the error is accumulated (I don't know the exact word to describe it)
21:49<TiberiusTeng>i.e. once an error flag is set, it will keep set, until checked with glGetError().
21:50<TiberiusTeng>and if that glGen/BindProgramARB do failed, the sprite shader would unavailable, causing black screen
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 26 00:00:33 2008