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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-07-14

---Logopened Mon Jul 14 00:00:18 2008
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00:41<douglas>hi
00:41<douglas>someone wants to play?
00:57<ecke>:D
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05:05*HaloMaster is off to bed so he is ready for E3
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05:08<fmauNeko>plop
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06:07<rift_>hi
06:12<rift_>when i want to destroy a building i have always the message "the city doesn't want to..." can i override that ?
06:12<Yexo>you have to increase your town rating
06:13<Yexo>you can do that in several ways: 1) providing good service on multiple staitons within the city range. 2) bribe the town. 3) Build lots of trees around the town
06:13<MorgyN>I once spent 2 million on trees
06:13<MorgyN>=(
06:14<@peter1138>4) cheat
06:14<Yexo>cheat for the town rating? never seen that one
06:14<Yexo>unless you mean the magic buildozer
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06:16<rift_>lol ok
06:16-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad545f2.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
06:17<@peter1138>well cheat for removing buildings :)
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06:34<planetmaker>hm... just started to wonder: are there any plans to include automatic creation of rivers in the map generator?
06:35<Celestar>:)
06:35<dih>now that would be awsome
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06:40<Eddi|zuHause2>depends on your definition of "plan" :p
06:41<planetmaker>:P well... what definition would the current status comply with?
06:43<dih>85.179.193.115 <- this ip is getting pretty annoying in the server list (http://servers.openttd.org)
06:43-!-Mchl [~mchl@abdr124.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
06:44<Mchl>hello
06:44<dih>hi
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06:48<@peter1138>plan = someone write it
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06:57<Eddi|zuHause2>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Lively_Rivers
06:57*Celestar thinks he should update the wiki concerning orders
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07:02<Celestar>I do hate appalling town ratins
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07:04<planetmaker>[13:02] <peter1138> plan = someone write it <-- thx. that's what I wanted to know :)
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07:07<Noldo>planetmaker: how are you going to make rivers flow?
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07:08<planetmaker>no idea yet. But a maximum gradient approach seems ok with some random noise
07:08<planetmaker>and maybe some undulation for no gradient
07:10<Noldo>I feel the current river consept is somehow counterintuitive
07:10<planetmaker>there's no river concept, is it?
07:11<planetmaker>you may build them manually - or is there a way to place them automatically that I'm not aware of?
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07:12<Celestar>hm
07:12<planetmaker>btw: I didn't pledge to do it - but I might have a look :)
07:12<Noldo>there is, putting river graphics on a canal and saying it is a river
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07:12<Celestar>I want to run my OpenFOAM on one of the AMD 4870X2s
07:12<Celestar>2.5TFlops :D
07:13<Noldo>:)
07:13<planetmaker>Noldo: that's fine IMO. Water is water.
07:14<planetmaker>never touch a running system. Nor never run a touchy system :P
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07:15<Noldo>I agree that it works fine the way it is but if you try to make this canal with river graphics flow it might not
07:16<planetmaker>hm... I got the feeling that I don't get your point
07:17<Noldo>having the water stay on a tile implies that is lower than the adjacent tiles
07:17<planetmaker>yeah.
07:18<Noldo>let's say we have a flat area and the river floods/flows to one of the tiles, what makes it not flow to all the other tiles that are the same height
07:18<planetmaker>simply the such small height differences are not applicable in OpenTTD.
07:19<planetmaker>we choose any direction
07:19<planetmaker>but not all
07:20<planetmaker>I wouldn't care to model these tiny river bed height differences. It would add enormous complexity without gain
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07:21<MorgyN>so.. could you direct water to flood a town, if they weren't letting you build an airport?
07:21<planetmaker>a endpoint condition could be "all tiles higher or river" (= lake) or "adjacent tile=sea"
07:21<@peter1138>note that "lively rivers" is in no way official planning, heh
07:21<MorgyN>I liek this idea
07:22<planetmaker>yeah. I wouldn't want that. Just eye candy placement during map creation is my idea which I'd be happy with
07:22<planetmaker>Not self-healing or flooding rivers
07:23<Noldo>ok, then there is propably no problems
07:23*Celestar wonders whether it is possible for a normal player to fill a 1024x1024 map within 100 game-years
07:23<planetmaker>:)
07:24<Forked>I've made a note to self.. play openttd today !
07:24<Celestar>I mean ... fill in a brainful sort of way, not just clogging things up
07:24<planetmaker>Celestar: I know my playing style wouldn't allow me to do that.
07:25<Celestar>planetmaker: how is your "playing style?"
07:25<planetmaker>but then: I'm a slow builder.
07:25<planetmaker>I need to look at things and try to build a nice network
07:25<Celestar>me too
07:25<Celestar>and realistic :D
07:26<planetmaker>building some eye candy stations in between etc :) - and I enjoy just watching how it works :)
07:26<planetmaker>looking for things where to improve it.
07:26-!-Kommer [kommer@vestingbar.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd
07:26<planetmaker>and looking for a good way to add to the existing infrastructure
07:27<planetmaker>[13:25] <Celestar> and realistic :D <-- depends upon what "realistic" means :)
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07:33<Celestar>planetmaker: network should look _somehow_ like real-world networks
07:34<planetmaker>he :) yeah
07:35<MorgyN>monorails everwhere!
07:36<Celestar>planetmaker: http://www.fvfischer.de/real.png
07:36<planetmaker>I'm a rail fan :). Not maglev or monorail :)
07:36<Celestar>small-scale station with nice depot
07:37<planetmaker>ah. PBS fan :)
07:38<Celestar>well. no proper railway layout without PBS
07:38<planetmaker>oh, you get good layouts without, too.
07:38<Celestar>but then they're inefficient :)
07:38<planetmaker>not at all. Proper building without is at least as efficient as with PBS :)
07:39<Celestar>and btw: junctions are basically never mind-field. Always at stations only
07:39<planetmaker>not quite for me. I hate it, if they become a bottle neck :P
07:39<Ammler>Celestar: most ttd networks look like road traffic simulations...
07:39<Celestar>Ammler: yes
07:40<Celestar>not mine
07:40<planetmaker>I'd like to see all asserts in PBS gone, though... maybe we should field test the latest version again on our servers :)
07:40<@peter1138>"never mind-field" ?
07:40<Celestar>hm?
07:41<Ammler>planetmaker: did you test them?
07:41<@peter1138>test, reproduce, report.
07:41<planetmaker>Ammler: not really.
07:41<Ammler>I had a small chat with michi, he had a bug in 8.1, which is removed in 8.2
07:41<@peter1138>what do you mean by look like road traffic?
07:41<planetmaker>I just became prejudiced :P
07:42<Ammler>peter1138: as Celestar already mentioned junctions between stations instead at stations.
07:42<planetmaker>without good reason actually :S
07:42<Ammler>and trains don't drive with timetable like cars.
07:42<Celestar>aslo: my trains never go to depots with cargo loaded
07:43<@peter1138>hmm
07:43<@peter1138>true
07:43<@peter1138>usually if there's a junction in the middle of nowhere it's near where a station used to be
07:43<planetmaker>timetables. How do I best use time tabled _travelling_ ?
07:43-!-fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
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07:43<Celestar>planetmaker: what does it actually _do_ ?
07:44<fmauNeko>hmm, a firewall can block the server list ?
07:44<@peter1138>Ammler: how near does it need to be to be considered at a station? heh
07:44<Ammler>fmauNeko: open port 3978
07:44<planetmaker>Celestar: exactly my question :).
07:44<Ammler>peter1138: I would say station itself should be the split/join :-)
07:45<@peter1138>http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=salisbury&ie=UTF8&ll=51.076028,-1.790514&spn=0.027179,0.053215&z=14
07:45<planetmaker>I know that you can tell a train to wait a certain time at a station. But to tell it use a specified time to travel... ?
07:45<fmauNeko>3978 & 3979 are opened :'(
07:45<Ammler>well, there are junctions but not as much as we use.
07:45<@peter1138>junction there is quite away from the station
07:45<Ammler>3978 is for your server to be advertised,
07:46<Ammler>maybe you just need to switch from LAN to internet?
07:46<@peter1138>http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=salisbury&ie=UTF8&ll=51.251011,-1.157598&spn=0.027076,0.053215&z=14
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07:46<@peter1138>and there
07:46<Celestar>peter1138: I'm not saying there aren'T exceptions
07:46<fmauNeko>Ammler: i'm on internet :p
07:46<fmauNeko>hmm, i found stg interesting
07:46<fmauNeko>as I can read, my box serie has a lot of problems with UDP :'(
07:47<planetmaker>fmauNeko: you could join wwottdgd.
07:47<planetmaker>it should basically work the same for the public server
07:47<Celestar>peter1138: that latter one is about 2 miles from the station. that's not far ..
07:47<planetmaker>just different ip
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07:47<fmauNeko>planetmaker: by command line
07:48<@peter1138>but not directly at the station, as ammler suggested
07:48<fmauNeko>planetmaker: and i could join the ps, but as i was doing an upgrade while compiling my client :p
07:48*fmauNeko rebuilds
07:48<Ammler>peter1138: do the tracks join there?
07:48<planetmaker>fmauNeko: fmauNeko try a pre-build nightly. Just download it.
07:49<Ammler>or do they just share "foundations"
07:49<@peter1138>well
07:49<@peter1138>in the latter case, yeah, they share
07:50<@peter1138>like Celestar's picture :D
07:50<fmauNeko>planetmaker: okay :)
07:52<Ammler>peter1138: so the join/split itself is at station :-)
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07:53<@peter1138>there's a split outside of guildford but that's just after some tunnels
07:54<@peter1138>-of
07:55<Celestar>lol just spent 30k on an autosingla process :D
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07:56<@peter1138>:D
07:56<@peter1138>whoever wrote that version of autosignals needs a pat on their back
07:56<@peter1138>;)
07:59<Celestar>well. it was a long route
07:59<Celestar>about 150 tiles I think
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08:02<planetmaker>oh, our 100th game was version 0.4.7 - without autosignal. That was annoying :)
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08:09*fmauNeko rebuilds his suse packages with data integrated and no overwriting on the stable :)
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08:32<fmauNeko>why nightlies executables are linked against libexpat.so.0 and libexpat.so.1 ?
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08:36<@peter1138>they're not
08:37<@peter1138>they're linked against one of them, and something else is linked against the other
08:37<@peter1138>but that's dependent on your system
08:41<ln>the same thing translated for those who don't like proper english: "their not", "but thats dependant on ur system"
08:41<MorgyN>loldev?
08:42<Celestar>lol
08:42<Celestar>hm ..
08:42*Celestar wonders why two of his trains always generate an "is lost" message the moment the arrive at their planned stations
08:42<MorgyN>i'm in ur code, commenting your blocks...
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08:57<Celestar>building through stations in cities is close to impossible
08:58<Forked>underground stations patch ! gogogo :p
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09:02<Brianetta>Most city centre stations are double-plus-un-young in the first place.
09:02<Brianetta>The city grows around the lines.
09:03<Doorslammer|BRSet>Having trouble setting up a server on Beardie's cpmpy, anyone help?
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09:06<Doorslammer|BRSet>Anyone?
09:07<Brianetta>Apparently not.
09:07<Doorslammer|BRSet>Oh
09:07<Doorslammer|BRSet>Bye then :P
09:07<Beardie27>here
09:08<extspotter>there!
09:08<Doorslammer|BRSet>everywhere?
09:09<Beardie27>i am here
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09:10<Eddi|zuHause2><Celestar> building through stations in cities is close to impossible <- that's why the paxdest patch is so great, you can place the station outside the city and then provide a tram or bus system through the city
09:11<MorgyN>paxdest?
09:11<MorgyN>*googles somemore*
09:11<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, like real life
09:11<Eddi|zuHause2>don't say the "r"-word, it'll scare belugas ;)
09:12<@peter1138>i didn't say that one :)
09:12<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, but you got kinda close ;)
09:14<Brianetta>r?
09:14<Doorslammer|BRSet>Real life
09:14<Doorslammer|BRSet>Shit
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09:26<Sacro>ooh
09:26<Sacro>someone revived my patch thread
09:26<Sacro>i might update it now
09:27<Doorslammer|BRSet>So, server help...
09:27<Doorslammer|BRSet>Tried everything, still not showing up
09:28<Celestar>oh .. "patch thread" .. I somehow read "thread patch" :)
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09:29<Eddi|zuHause2>same difference ;)
09:37<Sacro>Celestar: Sacro's daylength patch!
09:39*hylje patches threads out
10:08<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause2: does it ... work?
10:08<Eddi|zuHause2>the current implementation has serious multiplayer trouble
10:10<Eddi|zuHause2>and the behaviour of passengers when there are parallel routes could be improved
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10:12<Eddi|zuHause2>and when you build new routes, it takes a pretty long time for the passengers to accept it
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10:54<Celestar>heh has anyone tried the OpenGL blitter?
10:54<+glx>Tiberius' one?
10:55<Celestar>ay
10:55<+glx>quickly but it worked for me
10:55<Celestar>is it really that fast? :D
10:57<+glx>it's not slower at least :)
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11:38<dih>@seen rortom
11:38<@DorpsGek>dih: rortom was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <rortom> gn8\
11:39<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
11:39<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 4 days, 19 hours, 31 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I didn't have any
11:39<Sacro>what happened to him?
11:40<hylje>weekend
11:41<dih>lol
11:41<dih>that's a weekend of a weekend
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11:53<Celestar>@seen food
11:53<@DorpsGek>Celestar: food was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 11 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 3 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <food> hi dihedral, hi others
11:53<Celestar> O_O
11:53<Progman>lol
11:54<Progman>@seen a girl
11:54<@DorpsGek>Progman: seen [<channel>] <nick>
11:54<Progman>damn...
11:55-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
11:55<Progman>@seen a_girl
11:55<@DorpsGek>Progman: I have not seen a_girl.
11:56<dih>@see my_glasses
11:56<dih>doh
11:56<dih>Celestar: why do you have to highlight me?
11:56<dih>:-P
11:56<Celestar>er ..
11:57<planetmaker>looool !
11:59<dih>yay 1800...
11:59*dih runs home
11:59<dih>laters
12:00*Celestar is waiting for an insurance guy to visit hi,
12:00<Celestar>I'm really really going pay him back
12:00<Celestar>He phone-spammed me like every day for about two weeks.
12:01<Celestar>I finally said yes. He's now driving to my office (about 120miles from where he is), just to hear me telling him that I don't want no damn insurance from him
12:01<planetmaker>o_O - so how are you going to pay him
12:01<planetmaker>hehe. nice
12:03<Celestar>apparently he's on commission and things havbe been lean this year
12:04<hylje>aw
12:04<planetmaker>gah. You evil guy :)
12:04<planetmaker>Nice one, though. They can get really pesty...
12:06<Celestar>well I would have preferred not to do it, but my stab-people-in-the-face-though-the-phone-line device was out of service
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12:29<Bloody>Who can help me?
12:30<planetmaker>Celestar: sometimes it helps to be _really_ unfriendly
12:30<Bloody>I don't see any text in text only ???????
12:30<planetmaker>or you turn around the call: try to sell him something :P
12:31<Bloody>What I need to do?
12:31<planetmaker>that's a bloody aweful error description :P
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12:32<planetmaker>Bloody: you should always state OS, OpenTTD version, what you try to achieve and where exactly your error is
12:32<planetmaker>OpenTTD has no text only mode
12:32<Bloody>I have windows XP 32
12:34<Bloody>OpenTTD 0.6.1
12:35<Bloody>downloaded from http://www.openttd.org/
12:35<planetmaker>k. And what is the "text only mode"?
12:36<planetmaker>talking about the chat? the console? ...?
12:36<planetmaker>dedicated server?
12:37<Bloody>xm
12:37<planetmaker>or rather: what do you try to do?
12:37<Bloody>I trying to read readme:)
12:37<planetmaker>I have honestly no clue
12:38<planetmaker>o_O
12:38<planetmaker>you could open it with the text editor of your choice
12:39<Bloody>I'm reading now... sry I don't know english well
12:40<planetmaker>has that been your problem?
12:40<Bloody>The current font if missing some of the charaters used in the texts for this language. Read the readme to see how to solve this.
12:41<Mchl>to me it seems like another instance of this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=38374
12:41<Bloody>I down't know where is this tip
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12:42<Mchl>Bloody: see the link I posted
12:42<Bloody>I have same trouble...
12:43<planetmaker>then it's a trouble with your computer in general...
12:43<Mchl>also see section 9.0 in readme.txt
12:43<Mchl>starts with: With the added support for font-based text selecting a non-latin language...
12:44<planetmaker>sorry... misunderstood. withdraw my comment :P
12:44<Bloody>xax
12:44<Bloody>ty
12:45<Bloody>Russian stay in default:(
12:46<Mchl>surely you have some cyrylic font installed on your system
12:46<Mchl>if you do, edit openttd.cfg as advised in readme.txt
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13:23<KingJ>Do cargo payments also rise with inflation?
13:23<@peter1138>yes
13:23<@peter1138>at a different rate, however
13:24<KingJ>lower?
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13:35<Wolf01>hello
13:36<Bloody>hi
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13:37<@peter1138>yes, lower
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13:37<@peter1138>1% lower, so if the main inflation is 4%, then it is increased at 3%
13:39<KingJ>That would explain the decline in profits
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14:22<Eddi|zuHause2>i always play with inflation off
14:22<Eddi|zuHause2>as suggested in the dbsetxl readme ;)
14:25<KingJ>i'm going to start going that
14:26<@peter1138>Pah, too easy ;)
14:27-!-Yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:27<Yorick>how exactly is that 55clients-patch done?
14:28<Yorick>I tried just changing the max_clients constant...but the server then crashes
14:29<hylje>it does magic stuff that works around crashes
14:30<Yorick>where can I find the magic?
14:31<@peter1138>#define assert //
14:31<Yorick>peter1138: I wish it'd assert :)
14:31<hylje>that's gonna futz with multiline asserts
14:32<Yorick>http://wwottdgd.ammler.ch/wwottdgd/patches/2/wwottdgd_55clients_r13040.diff
14:32<planetmaker>I got an assert with previous nightly
14:32<Chrill>teehee
14:32*Chrill has added a Jeremy Clarkson and a Robert Kubica on Facebook
14:32<planetmaker>is r13697: NOT_REACHED triggered at line 101 of /usr/src/packages/BUILD/openttd-svn/src/vehicle_gui.h
14:33<Yorick>I smell bjarnbugs
14:33<planetmaker>Yorick: read the blog entry and download all patches
14:33<Yorick>planetmaker: all?
14:33<planetmaker>udpfix is your friend
14:33<planetmaker>it links to a zip with all wwottdgd patches
14:34<Yorick>I got udpfix
14:34<Yorick>but it crashes
14:34<Yorick>not asserts
14:34<Yorick>and on the FIRST client I want to join it
14:34<planetmaker>eh...
14:38<frosch123>planetmaker: you should post a detailed report to bugs.openttd.org
14:38<planetmaker>unfortunately I have no idea what exactly triggered it... :S
14:39<planetmaker>but most people on the server asserted...
14:40<Yorick>I wish I knew why it crashes ^^
14:40<planetmaker>yorick: I've no idea...
14:41<Yorick>I'd say I don't have all patches needed
14:41<planetmaker>you have the overall diff
14:41<planetmaker>which was actually used
14:42<planetmaker>that's everything in there
14:42<Yorick>it changes only ONE constant
14:42<planetmaker>yes.
14:42<planetmaker>and that works, if nothing else is changed.
14:42<planetmaker>but crashes for >11 clients
14:42<Yorick>if it was that easy they would have put it into trunk
14:42<planetmaker>that's what the udp hack is for
14:43-!-CIA-3 [~CIA@208.69.182.149.simpli.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:43<Yorick>I got the udphack in
14:44<Yorick>but it asserts without the udphack, right?
14:44<planetmaker>only for many clients afaik
14:44<planetmaker>and only a server
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14:49<Yorick>ok, now it just kicks out everyone on 12 clients
14:49<planetmaker>Yorick: that's expected
14:50<Yorick>expected...yes, but is there a fix
14:50<planetmaker>that's the udpfix
14:50<planetmaker>somehow...
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14:56<ln>which key activates the machine guns?
14:56<Yorick>ctrl-G
14:56<joachim>apple + windows
14:56<Mchl>any key
14:57<Prof_Frink>ln: Press and hold the "power" button for seven seconds to unlock the machineguns powerup.
14:58-!-grumbel [~grumbel@i577B92A8.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
14:58<ln>thanks
15:06*Chrill is listening to Aerosmith - Eat The Rich
15:08-!-curson [~curzon@79-69-126-217.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
15:11*Chrill is listening to Sabaton - Hellrider
15:11<ln>Chrill: thank you for sharing that with us
15:11<Chrill>sorry, it's a bug im tryin to fix with it
15:11<Chrill>it spams it to all windows
15:12*Chrill is listening to Sabaton - The price of a mile
15:12<Chrill>oh damnit
15:12<Sacro>Chrill: spammah
15:12<Chrill>it tells mIRC itself every time a track changes, Sacropoop
15:12*Chrill is listening to Sabaton - Panzerkampf
15:13<Chrill>I TOLD YOU TO STOP
15:13-!-DJNekkid [~chatzilla@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd
15:13*Chrill is listening to Sabaton - Cliffs of Gallipoli
15:13<Chrill>...
15:13<hylje>whaaat?
15:13<Chrill>I'll return when i fixed this
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15:16<Chrill>there
15:16<Chrill>apologies for earlier spam
15:16<@peter1138>YOU BETTER BE
15:16<hylje>ABUSER
15:16*Chrill slaps peter1138
15:16*yexo waits for the next "Chrill is listening to ..." line :p
15:16*Chrill is NP Sabaton - The price of a mile [05:55]
15:16*peter1138 slaps Chrill
15:16<Chrill>:)
15:21<Yorick>I think it would help if I knew what the errors meant
15:21<Yorick>10054...
15:22<@peter1138>Ask Google.
15:22<planetmaker>:D
15:24<hylje>software caused connection abort
15:24<DJNekkid>could anyone check this out? im trying to make a 3part articulated engine with the 2nd part a bit shorter ... http://paste.openttd.org/31036
15:26<@peter1138>...
15:26<@peter1138>-ENOTACALLBACKRESULT
15:27<DJNekkid>well, the point is, the 2nd part wont be shorter
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15:28<DJNekkid>well, thanx, i think
15:28<DJNekkid>:)
15:28<abbmaz>would someone like to play shared structure patched game on the net?
15:28<DJNekkid>sometimes im so stupid :)
15:29<abbmaz>there's a binary available for download
15:29<Yorick>abbmaz: where?
15:30<yexo>abbmaz: openttdcoop might be something for you (www.openttdcoop.org or #openttdcoop)
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15:32<abbmaz>ookay
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15:41<kyevan>I tried Locomotion. What the hell were they thinking with RCT-style track laying!?
15:46<planetmaker>Is it intended, that the depot window closes itself after you built 21 vehicles in a row without doing anything else like closing the open vehicle windows?
15:47<Chrill>kyevan: they were thinking: Make some graphics and smack it into an exisiting engine
15:47-!-fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
15:47<yexo>planetmaker: yes, because there is a limit on the amount of open windows
15:48<planetmaker>is there? I was under the impression that it was removed some time ago, but I may be wrong :)
15:49<Yorick>press and hold 'v'
15:51<yexo>window_gui.h: MAX_NUMBER_OF_WINDOWS = 25;
15:51<planetmaker>:) Thx
15:53<yexo>it looks like you can change that constant without any problems, but I'm not entirely sure
15:53<planetmaker>hm.. a bug which I cannot reproduce is not worth much, I guess...
15:54<planetmaker>yexo: :) I've no problem with 25 windows - it's cluttered enough
15:54<kyevan>Chrill: Aaah. Makes sense, I guess
15:54<planetmaker>I was just testing some things and wondered
15:54<kyevan>(I really don't see why they couldn't have used the path-building interface, but whatever.)
15:54<Chrill>kyevan, the RCT interface was great when building coasters since you turned everywhere, all the time
15:55<kyevan>I agree!
15:55<Chrill>it's not as functional with roads and rails stretching straight as far as possible
15:55<kyevan>I love it, for coasters. Even for the trains on RCT it's a little not-nice, but really understandable there.
15:55<Chrill>and on that bombshell
15:55<Chrill>Immah go play RCT2
15:55<Chrill>also
15:55<Chrill>anyone knows of a good downloadable scenario for RCT2?
15:55<kyevan>(Randomly, has anyone played with the data files from RCT? I had a really stupid idea the other day >_>)
15:56<kyevan>Chrill: I only have RCT1... and my disk is cracked :(
15:56<kyevan>(I can always torrent it. I have a license, I have a disk, it's just damaged. I might not be LEGALY in the clear, but I'm in the clear morally.)
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16:05<yexo>can someone look at http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Project_A_New_OpenTTD? imo it doesn't belong there, but under the user page of batti5
16:06<yexo>just like more pages created recently by him
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16:30<kyevan>Is documentation on the master server available?
16:30<@Rubidium>nothing more than the source code
16:32<kyevan>Fair enough.
16:33<@Rubidium>why? what do you intend to do?
16:33<kyevan>(I'm thinking about writing a fancy updater/launcher that downloads (if needed) and launches the right revision.)
16:43<Yorick>why do you need the master server for that?
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16:50<Chrill>kyevan, isn't there an AutoUpdate already though?
16:50<Chrill>oh wait nvm
16:54<kyevan>Yorick: The master server communication is to figure out what the right revision for a particular game is :P
16:54<Yorick>the master server sends only IP
16:54<@Rubidium>even worse
16:54<@Rubidium>the masterserver doesn't even know the revisions
16:54<kyevan>Oh boy, then I also get to probe servers >_>
16:54<SpComb>yes it does
16:55<kyevan>But I'd still need to ask it for what servers to probe.
16:55<SpComb>well, the masterserver updater
16:55<kyevan>I could just scrape http://www.openttd.org/servers.php
16:55<Yorick>SpComb: the masterserver asks it to the server
16:56<Yorick>kyevan: looked at openttdlib?
16:56<kyevan>Yorick: No, I haven't.
16:56<Yorick>you should
16:56<kyevan>I haven't even heard of it :P
16:56<Yorick>openttdlib.dihedral.de
16:58<kyevan>Hmm, could be useful as an alternate implimentation to look at.
16:58<kyevan>Probably a CLEANER implimentation at that :P
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17:05<Wolf01>'night
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17:48<gigi>hallo
17:49<gigi>I have a problem with newgrf - if anyone can help
17:49<yexo>only if you tell us what your problem is :p
17:49<gigi>to be more specific I have installed ECS vectors
17:49<gigi>but I do not have the ships to transport some of the new cargos
17:49<kyevan>if(self.are(Emotion.HAPPY) && self.know(Emotion.HAPPY, true)) {
17:49<gigi>I mnaged to have trains and rvs
17:49<kyevan>self.hands.clap();
17:49<kyevan>}
17:50<gigi>but I cannot find the grf which gives me the ships able to carry the new cargo (like fish, beer and stuff like that)
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17:50<+glx>newships should do that
17:51<planetmaker>gigi: newships by micha blunck
17:51<+glx>planetmaker: +el
17:51<planetmaker>glx: micha is a common short for michael :)
17:51<gigi>yes
17:51<gigi>I have that too
17:52<gigi>nshp_ecs.grf
17:52<gigi>but it does not want to load
17:52<gigi>it stays disabled at all tine
17:52<gigi>time
17:52<+glx>you need newships.grf too
17:52<planetmaker>load order may matter. and that ^
17:52<gigi>so 2 grf's for ships ?
17:53<+glx>nshp_ecs is just an addon for newships
17:53<planetmaker>as for trains. yes
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17:54<gigi>for trains oldwagons-newcargos.grf is not enough ?
17:54<+glx>it is enough as it modifies the wagons
17:55<gigi>ok lemme try the ships now :)
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17:57<kyevan>What's the reason for the line size limit?
17:57<kyevan>(For chat)
17:58<+glx>code unification
17:58<gigi>indeed it works
17:58<gigi>:0
17:58<gigi>thank you
17:59<SmatZ>:0 indeed
17:59<gigi>:)
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18:00<ArmEagle>hmm, seems like I managed to get someone to spend time modelling for 32bpp(-zoom)
18:00<ArmEagle>is there a special channel for that too, or just the forum?
18:01<SmatZ>I don't think there is any channel for 32bpp
18:02<ArmEagle>I guess mainly the blender thread.
18:02<ArmEagle>There's already quite some models made (or at least WIP). But they often haven't resulted in sprites yet.
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18:12<kyevan>... Why does the train length indicator in the depot screen, etc show floor instead of ceiling?
18:13<kyevan>(er, translation: why does it round down, not up?)
18:13<+glx>why do you not try ?
18:13<kyevan>Buh?
18:13<kyevan>That made no sense, glx.
18:14<+glx>build a train, look at the indicated length and check how it fits in a station
18:14<kyevan>That's how I DISCOVERED this.
18:14<kyevan>I'm wondering what the REASONING is
18:14<kyevan>(Since this way, it can show 14 and not fit in 7-tile stations, etc)
18:15<+glx>14 should fit in a 7-tile station
18:16<kyevan>Sure, unless it's actually 14.5
18:16<@Rubidium>for me it rounds up though
18:16<kyevan>Which shows 14.
18:17<kyevan>(Water tanks, for example, have this issue)
18:17<@Rubidium>what newgrf?
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18:17<+glx>max size for a wagon is half-tile
18:18<kyevan>Rubidium: Whatever set is running on #openttdcoop 's public server
18:18<kyevan>glx: Sure, there are quarter-tile cars, though
18:18<kyevan>Or something
18:18<Eddi|zuHause2>i've had trains showing length 7 perfectly fit in a 3 tile station
18:18<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't know what you mean with "it shows floor"
18:20<kyevan>floor(4.5) -> 4
18:20<kyevan>ceiling(4.5) -> 5
18:21<kyevan>floor(1.0000001) -> 1
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18:21<kyevan>ceiling(1.0000001) -> 2
18:21<Eddi|zuHause2>i know what a floor function is
18:21<Eddi|zuHause2>but i don't believe that it behaves like this
18:22<+glx>(v->u.rail.cached_total_length + 7) / 8 <-- that's ceil
18:22<+glx>the problem is then the grf not OTTD
18:24<Eddi|zuHause2>the DBSet early wagons have length 7/8, electric engine 6/8, engine + 6 wagons = (7*6+6)/8 = 8*6/8 = 6, steam engine has 7/8 -> 7*7/8 = 49/8 = 7, that is exactly what the depot shows
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18:25<@Rubidium>kyevan: it's a bug in the NewGRF; if you reverse the wagons they do not fit and if you add a wagon behind a reversed wagon they overlap
18:26<kyevan>Eya, whatever. It makes no sense, I can't reproduce it now.
18:26<+glx>btw it looks like UKRS :)
18:26<kyevan>Oh, so "it's someone else's fault"? :P
18:26<+glx>we use the data given by the grf
18:27<kyevan>glx: see the :P, I understand what's going on there
18:27<kyevan>I'm just teasing.
18:27<@Rubidium>if a NewGRF tells that a vehicle is 1 wide and it gives OpenTTD a sprite that is actually 2 wide there's nothing we can do to stop it
18:27<@Rubidium>especially because the too wide sprites are sometimes used to make trains look nicer
18:28<@Rubidium>in the corners
18:28<kyevan>Rubidium: But it should be treated, in logic, as 1 tile wide still, right?
18:28<@Rubidium>it is
18:28<kyevan>It fit visually, according to the thing, it SHOULD have fit logicaly, but it was sticking out enough to break my presignals somehow
18:28<@Rubidium>the length you see in the depot window is the exact same length used everywhere else
18:28<+glx>the wagon seems to be outside the station, but if you look at the signal it isn't
18:29<kyevan>glx: I had the other situation
18:29<kyevan>It seemed to be inside, and it was sticking out.
18:29<kyevan>Eh. Whatever. It's not THAT big an issue.
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20:27<@Belugas_Gone>fmauNeko can't decide if he'll stay or go..
20:28<fmauNeko>:D
20:28<fmauNeko>no, i dropped konversation for xchat
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20:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13705 /trunk/src/ (bridge.h tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Define and use BridgePieces enum, which will remove a few more magic numbers
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23:30<Nite_Owl>Has anyone else been having sound problems with the last few nightly releases?
23:33<kyevan>Maybe some volume issues switching between them and others, but not really..
23:35<Nite_Owl>Well I posted the problem on the forum - Flyspray would not let me in.
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 15 00:00:37 2008