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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-07-18

---Logopened Fri Jul 18 00:00:33 2008
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03:01<Noldo>morning
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03:04<Forked>adsl sucks.. imagine it getting disconnected just because you disable your position on the DSLAM
03:08-!-mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ
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03:08-!-mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ
03:08-!-mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by ChanServ
03:08-!-mode/#openttd [+v Belugas_Gone] by ChanServ
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03:32<Doorslammer|BRSet>Hi Forked :P
03:38<Forked>hello!
03:41<Doorslammer|BRSet>Thought you called me ;)
03:42<Forked>I did?
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04:06<Forked>oh, dorslammer - dslam. :)
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05:04<Yorick>indstatrw.grf:22]ParamSet: GRM: Unable to allocate 6 sprites
05:08<Yorick>I'd like the newnewgrf gui for 0.6
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05:14<@peter1138>...
05:14<@peter1138>But no new features in 0.6
05:20<@peter1138>r13713... isn't that more like 'remove lots of (unneeded?) information' rather than 'possible crash' ?
05:20-!-mucht_work [~Martin@143.50.125.24] has joined #openttd
05:22<Noldo>peter1138: rubidium was quite certain he could crash servers with just one udp packet
05:23<@peter1138>That's as maybe.
05:23<@peter1138>(svn r13713) -Fix: possible crash on creating a network packet.
05:24<@peter1138>(svn r13713) -Fix: possible crash on creating a network packet BY REMOVING LOTS UNNEEDED INFORMATION.
05:25<@peter1138>+OF
05:25<@peter1138>:p
05:27<Celestar>the amount of micromanagement on a 1kx1k map with close to 300 trains is incredible
05:28<Lachie>Devs!
05:28*Lachie hugs peter1138 and/or Celestar
05:28<Celestar>O_o
05:28<Lachie>had a quick question lol
05:29<Lachie>are either of you aware if the experimental AI in multiplayer switch is known for causing seemingly random desyncs in 0.6.0?
05:29<Noldo>peter1138: :)
05:32<Yorick>Lachie: switches are ttdp, and 0.6.2-RC1 is newest version
05:33<Lachie>Yorick: I've been in the community for four years, don't treat me like a noob.
05:34<Noldo>and by experimental AI you mean NoAI ?
05:34<Yorick>no
05:34<Yorick>the trolly AI
05:34<Lachie>and as far as I'm aware 0.6.2*RC1* isn't a stable :P
05:34<Yorick>0.6.1 is
05:34<Noldo>ah
05:34<Lachie>Yorick: not according to synaptic
05:34<Yorick>synaptic?
05:35<Noldo>Synaptic is a graphical package management program for apt.
05:35<Lachie>0.6.0 is the newest version on the apt reposes.
05:35<Yorick>"The latest stable version is 0.6.1, released on June 1st 2008. "
05:35<Lachie>and I'm too damn lazy to manually install stuff, as you know.
05:35<Lachie>mmm
05:35<Lachie>bugger
05:35<Lachie>I'll have to build that one then
05:36<Noldo>which distro are you using?
05:36<Lachie>ubuntu
05:36<Noldo>because http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=openttd&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all
05:37<Noldo>and there is a deb in the downloads page
05:37<Yorick>debian != ubuntu
05:37<Lachie>how strange.
05:37<Lachie>Yorick: exactly.
05:37<Lachie>ubuntu == debian
05:37<Lachie>more or less
05:38<Lachie>well cheers for that one, Noldo
05:38<Lachie>I'll get it installed accross the network
05:44<Celestar>heh ... one million cargo units per year \o/
05:44<@Rubidium>peter1138: I can give you a rundown on what you have to do to crash a server
05:45<@peter1138>That's not the point.
05:45<Celestar>axe.grab(); axe.apply(server); ?
05:45<@peter1138>:)
05:46*Celestar classifies himself officially as "nerd"
05:46<@Rubidium>and the whole packet is (currently) unneeded, but I kept it so someone could make company stats of their servers fairly easily
05:46<Celestar>142 train stations
05:46<Celestar>is there any way to count the number of towns?:P
05:47<@Rubidium>gdb ./openttd, run -g <savegame>, alt-0, print _total_town_count or something like that (see the town header)
05:48<@Rubidium>(it's _total_towns though)
05:49<Celestar>heh :P
05:49<Celestar>k
05:49<Celestar>gotta recompile for that who :P
05:49<Celestar>tho*
05:49<@Rubidium>or count by hand ;)
05:50<Celestar>maybe the towns list should contain the total number, just like the trains list contains the total number
05:54<Lachie>peter1138: you still want in on the Australian Set testing list?
05:55<Celestar>man I want my ICE :P
05:55<Lachie>xD
05:56<@Rubidium>but... but... they aren't running now either
05:56<Celestar>I got 99 IC that need replacing 8)
05:56<Celestar>Rubidium: they're running again, and only the ICE3 had .. problems
05:57<Celestar>Rubidium: I'm not sure you can hit 3 million cargo units per year with passengers only on a 1k map
05:57<Lachie>"problems"
05:57<ln>is there going to be a maglev in Munich, or did they cancel it?
05:57<Celestar>ln: cancelled
05:57<ln>too bad
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05:57<Lachie>just had the most awesome idea regarding the "engine pool" feature I heard about today
05:58<Celestar>ln: cost overrun by 60% before even starting
05:59<Lachie>having a 2000x2000 split into several islands, which could serve as different countries
05:59<ln>Celestar: well, fortunately the existing rail connection is already there and operational.
05:59<Celestar>ln: it is THERE, operational is not really the right word for a 50-minute trip
05:59<Yorick>Lachie: unfortunatly, the base costs are modified global
05:59<Yorick>ly
06:00<@Rubidium>Lachie: as none of them is Canada it's possible (with the before mentioned 'problem' of the global costs)
06:01<Lachie>so, the locomotives/rolling stock which share an ID would have the same costs you mean?
06:01<@Rubidium>nope
06:01*Lachie is confused
06:01<@Rubidium>all costs of a vehicle are from a GRF seen between 0 and 255, this is multiplied with a constant
06:02<Lachie>that I am aware
06:02<@Rubidium>that constant is global, but can be changed by the NewGRF
06:02*Lachie is a GRF coder
06:02<Lachie>ahh
06:02<Lachie>I get you
06:02<Lachie>so the cost multiplier is global?
06:02<@Rubidium>yes
06:02<Lachie>ah
06:02<Lachie>fair enough
06:02<@Rubidium>so the last newgrf 'wins'
06:02<Celestar>oh man. Station with 6 trunks coming in. it 0wns
06:03<Lachie>Rubidium: that would screw things up a little.
06:03<Yorick>"deleting dir"..."deleting files"..."error: can't delete files..files not found"...
06:04<Yorick>so it can't delete the dir because it tries to find and delete the files it just deleted
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06:04<Yorick>:-<
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06:11<Yorick>is the opntitle.dat grf bug fixed?
06:12<fmauNeko>plop
06:15<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13726 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_vehicle.cpp ai_vehicle.hpp ai_vehicle.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Add: AIVehicle::ReverseVehicle (Yexo)
06:15<Lachie>hm...
06:15<Lachie>weird
06:16<Lachie>still not synchronising
06:16<Lachie>how annoying.
06:17<Noldo>what? where?
06:17<Lachie>I never remember this amount of instability in LAN games before
06:18<Lachie>could also be the GRFs I'm using I suppose
06:19<@Rubidium>I've never tested the 'new ai' in MP (or heard anybody about using it)
06:19<@Rubidium>so it could easily be just the AI
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06:19<Lachie>turned it off, still got the desyncs also.
06:19<@Rubidium>what version?
06:19<Lachie>0.6.1
06:20<@Rubidium>do you have elrail disabled?
06:20<Lachie>don't believe so
06:20<Lachie>no
06:21<Lachie>should I?
06:21<@Rubidium>no
06:21<Lachie>hm...
06:22<Lachie>shall I stick my config somewhere?
06:22<Lachie>(upload)
06:22<@Rubidium>it is reproducable when you save the game and then reload it in the server?
06:24<Lachie>wait a sec
06:24<Lachie>hmmm
06:24<Lachie>seems good so far
06:25<@Rubidium>I can't quickly find a reason why newai would desync though
06:25<Lachie>no desync yet
06:25<Lachie>mm
06:25<Lachie>it was desyncing without it though
06:26<@Rubidium>yeah, but did you restart the game before that?
06:26<Lachie>yes
06:26<@Rubidium>(restart as in save-load)
06:26<Lachie>so, was this a known bug or something? random desyncs which resolved when you reloaded the game in-server?
06:26<@Rubidium>no
06:27<Lachie>I didn't do the save-load with the AI on
06:27<Lachie>shall I try that
06:27<@Rubidium>but for me to solve a desync I must be able to reproduce it
06:27<Lachie>?
06:27<Lachie>Rubidium: it did happen in several different new games
06:27<Lachie>let me try something
06:28<Lachie>hmm
06:28<Lachie>yeah, it's fine now.
06:28<Lachie>weird
06:28<@Rubidium>just make sure that elrail is not disabled
06:28<@Rubidium>(as that does cause desyncs with a dedicated server)
06:28<Lachie>hmm
06:28<Lachie>it's not dedicated
06:29<Lachie>thanks for the help ^^
06:29<Lachie>I'll try starting with AI no, see what happens
06:29<Lachie>*now
06:31<Lachie>desync'd
06:31<Lachie>*save-loads*
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06:33<Lachie>alright, I'll leave that a while and see what happens
06:35<Lachie>I'll see if it's still connected when I come back from a shower
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06:46<Celestar>Rubidium: disabling elrails causes desyncs?
06:48<@Rubidium>in <= 0.6.1 yes
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06:50<Celestar>ahh
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06:58<ln>so... when can we expect to see international flights and trains and ships?
06:59<hylje>when can we expect nations at all?
07:00<ln>i see one right now.
07:00<Noldo>where?
07:00<ln>in openttd.
07:01<Noldo>I see a group of independent town states with common currency
07:02<ln>and a common language, which often defines a nation.
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07:08<Celestar>:o just spent one billion on replacing vehicles :P
07:09<hylje>one hundred trillion
07:09<@peter1138>One thousand million, eh?
07:10*peter1138 wants one billion to mean one million million again... *grumble*
07:10<Forked>it does in Norway .. we have "Milliard" as a htousand million .. and a thousand milliarder again is a billion
07:10<Lachie>Rubidium: whatever the problem with the desyncs was... it fixes itself after a save and reload on the server.
07:10<@Rubidium>but with a new game it's almost instantaniously?
07:11<Lachie>yeah
07:11<Lachie>within thirty seconds or so
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07:11<Lachie>Forked: Norway still uses Long-scale?
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07:12<@Rubidium>Lachie: can I then have the config + newgrfs you use to recreate the issue?
07:12<Lachie>alright
07:12<@Rubidium>is there an endianness difference between the server and client?
07:12<Lachie>endianness?
07:12<Forked>Lachie: long-scale?
07:12<Forked>:)
07:12<Lachie>Forked: hang on
07:12<@Rubidium>Lachie: PPC vs x86
07:13<Lachie>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
07:13<Forked>words I'm afraid to google .. betting results wont be sfw
07:13<Lachie>Rubidium: nope
07:13<@Rubidium>something to do with the internals of the processor
07:13<Lachie>both 32 bit intel processors I believe?
07:13<@peter1138>You'll need the random seed I guess.
07:13<Lachie>so x86 lol
07:14<@peter1138>If pause on no clients is not enabled then anything can happen between starting and the first client connecting...
07:14<@peter1138>^ Stating the obvious
07:15<Lachie>peter1138: server is a player :P
07:15<Lachie>where would I find the cfg under Ubuntu Linux?
07:16<Lachie>Rubidium: but one client is a Dual Core
07:16<Yexo>~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
07:16<Lachie>not that that should matter though i guess
07:16<Lachie>cheers Yexo
07:18<Lachie>Rubidium: the stuff is at http://whitehand.bur.st/817/
07:21<Celestar>bah I hate network bugs :P
07:21<@peter1138>Network bugs?
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07:27<@Rubidium>Lachie: okay, got it locally reproduced too (so I can fix it)
07:28<Lachie>alright
07:29<Lachie>good to know I've found a possible bug for you :)
07:33<SmatZ>http://dev.openttd.org/~smatz/gldebug2.diff fixed the problem Celestar mentioned - compilation with NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES
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07:37<fjb>Hello
07:38<dih>hi
07:38<SmatZ>hello
07:46<fjb>The second OpenTTD only grf is there. Now we need a 19tn century rail set...
07:46<ln>and a 16th century ship set
07:47<dih>what is that grf
07:49<@peter1138>"there" ?
07:50<fjb>ln: Ofcourse.
07:50-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-26-82-230.nrth.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
07:50<fjb>peter1138: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=709908#p709908
07:51<@peter1138>I suppose the first OpenTTD only GRF was openttd[w|d].grf? :p
07:51*Brianetta machine-guns everybody a good afternoon
07:51<fjb>peter1138: Ok, then it is the third grf. :-P
07:51<@peter1138>What's the second GRF?
07:52<@peter1138>I'm afraid it's not something I ever kept track of.
07:52<Brianetta>peter1138: You just mentioned two
07:52<fjb>peter1138: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=707922#p707922
07:52<@peter1138>That counts as one, heh...
07:53<Brianetta>Not compatible with anything but the SVN trunk... wow, that's bleeding edge
07:53<fjb>Don't cut your finger...
07:55<Brianetta>I've been out of the loop for a while. IRC only, and then mostly not paying attention. What's the general prediction on the future of shared tracks, and default-red signalling? Use a scale of "it's being considered", "it might happen eventually" and "it won't happen"
07:57<Lachie>default-red signalling?!
07:57<Lachie>like, realistic signalling? :D
07:57<Brianetta>I think PBS is a prerequisite for that
07:57<Brianetta>but yes
07:58<Brianetta>It was either peter1138 or Richk67 who wrote a patch for manual control of a train
07:58<Brianetta>unfortunately, you never quite knew whether to stop for a green that might go red at any moment
07:59<Vikthor>Brianetta: There is YAPP, which, I believe is default red, and that may eventually reach the trunk
08:00<planetmaker>Brianetta: you might want to try out yapp on our dev server :)
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08:05<planetmaker>there's also a track sharing patch, but... it has way less dev attention than yapp :)
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08:07<fjb>I had an idea how to solve the race condition in the dinstant join station patch. But I have to learn more C++ first.
08:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13727 /trunk/src/ (debug.cpp debug.h gamelog.cpp gamelog.h openttd.cpp): -Fix (r13375): compilation with NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES was broken
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08:16<Ammler>race condition?
08:17<fjb>Yes. That patch opens a window with the station to chose. But the stations can go away while the window is displayed.
08:20<@Rubidium>Lachie: desync solved
08:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13729 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp:
08:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Fix: assumption that non-north tiles of a house do not have the 1x1 building
08:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: bit set was flawed with some NewGRFs. This caused the amount of houses to
08:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: differ, which causes the town radii to differ, which causes desyncs when towns
08:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: are expanded.
08:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13728 /trunk/src/debug.h: -Codechange: define DEBUG as an empty block so compiler warns us less
08:24<Lachie>Rubidium: any idea why reloading would fix it though?
08:24<Lachie>just as a matter of interest?
08:25<@Rubidium>both the server and client would've have the wrong number of houses and after that the number of houses doesn't change that often
08:25<Lachie>ah
08:25<Lachie>fair enough
08:25<eldeng>hi. is it possible to change the player id of a player to 1 to make him the owner/master of the game?
08:25<@Rubidium>so joining quickly means nothing changed, joining after an hour could likely desync
08:26<Lachie>right.
08:30<Lachie>the fix will be in 0.6.2 then?
08:31<@Rubidium>yup
08:32<Lachie>sweet
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08:44<@peter1138>Nice.
08:44<Lachie>oooh
08:44<Lachie>OTTD has autoslope now :D
08:44<Lachie>fantastic :D
08:44*Lachie has been out of this far too long.
08:44<@peter1138>That could've been the cause of many problems :)
08:45<hylje>autoslope?
08:45*peter1138 is going to go look at new offices later today.
08:45<@peter1138>I'm not quite sure why I've been asked to look, being a mere techie.
08:46<@peter1138>hylje, TTDPatch's name for being able to alter foundations.
08:46<hylje>obviously they want techie-friendly offices
08:46<hylje>(or are simply incompetent enough to trust techies)
08:46<planetmaker>hehe. Techies are much better exploited if they feel happy :)
08:46<@peter1138>Well, the building was custom built a few years ago as combined datacentre and offices.
08:47<@peter1138>planetmaker, well it's just the MD and me going.
08:47*planetmaker wonders what MD means... - but then peter1138: you feel happy and can be put to more work :)
08:48<@peter1138>Managing Director
08:48<hylje>work work
08:48<planetmaker>aye thx
08:49<planetmaker>give people the feeling that they have a say in what's going on... and they're happy what they're doing :)
08:49<@peter1138>Haha
08:49<planetmaker>I know it works for me :P
08:49<@peter1138>Possibly something to do with the company only having eight employees...
08:49<planetmaker>he, right :)
08:50<planetmaker>so you're in an expanding company :)
08:51<hylje>enterprise
08:53<planetmaker>anyway, with 8 people, every person counts :)
08:54*Brianetta is reading the YAPP thread
08:55<Brianetta>I'm hot for those signals
08:55<Lachie>have you guys ever considering allowing dragging of the diagonal rails?
08:55<+glx>like autorail ?
08:55<hylje>it's allowed?
08:56<@peter1138>Yeah, use 'autorail'
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08:57<Ammler>Brianetta: YAPP just rocks.
08:58<Ammler>he made a really good penalty system.
09:00-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
09:00<dih>Ammler: has it improved since the last openttdcoop test?
09:00<dih>hello Sacro
09:00<Sacro>hey diuh
09:00<Sacro>err
09:00<Sacro>dih
09:01<Lachie>autorail can get a little messy
09:02<Ammler>dih: there wasn't need for that :-)
09:02<Ammler>"our" asserts are all gone
09:02<Ammler>just the unneeded "waiting for path" is still there...
09:03<Ammler>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=709763#p709763 <-- do not understand the answer of michi_cc
09:04<Ammler>why isn't that solveable?
09:05<planetmaker>Didn't understand it either. Maybe ask :)
09:06<Celestar>Brianetta: I'm using them currently
09:06<Celestar>Brianetta: they ROCK
09:06<Celestar>thing is (as I predicted about a year ago): Presignals are now completely useless :P
09:06<Brianetta>(-:
09:07<planetmaker>[15:06] <Celestar> thing is (as I predicted about a year ago): Presignals are now completely useless :P <--- I beg to disagree :)
09:07<Celestar>planetmaker: well you may :P
09:07<planetmaker>How could you build a nand gate without? :)
09:08<Celestar>wth is a nand gate and what do you need it for?
09:08<hylje>programming
09:08<planetmaker>advanced logic functions :)
09:08<Celestar>I know that.
09:09<Celestar>but what's that to do with signals
09:09<planetmaker>http://www.openttdcoop.org/blog/2008/06/17/the-insane-led-counter-logic-gates-part-1/ and the thread mentioned there
09:10<fjb>Presignals are now completely useless beside esoteric uses.
09:10<planetmaker>--> building electronic circuits using OpenTTD :P
09:11<hylje>try submitting openttd logic gates to esolangs
09:11<planetmaker>so as long as there are no programmable signals, you can help yourself by using quite large logic circuits this way :)
09:11<planetmaker>hylje: wth is esolangs ?
09:11<Lachie>do we have route restrictions or something?
09:11<Celestar>Brianetta: well, you can now build an 8-platform bi-directional stations without a problem
09:12<hylje>planetmaker: a repository of silly ("esoteric") languages
09:12<hylje>http://esolangs.org/
09:12<planetmaker>hehe :)
09:13-!-Guest58 is now known as Prof_Frink
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09:15<planetmaker>Celestar: another application is still priorities... - you cannot build them using YAPP...
09:16<Ammler>presignals can't be used with PBS signals together, but aren't useless.
09:16<Ammler>or how do you make traditional SL-ML joiners?
09:17<planetmaker>Ammler: I guess he doesn't build that way... :)
09:17<@peter1138>They're all flawed concepts, IMHO.
09:17<Celestar>Brianetta: http://www.fvfischer.de/station.png
09:17<Celestar>SLML joiners?!
09:17<hylje>nice level crossing
09:17<hylje>s
09:17<planetmaker>[15:17] <peter1138> They're all flawed concepts, IMHO. <-- referring to what statement?
09:18<Ammler>Celestar: that looks like our YAPP coal drop
09:18<planetmaker>Celestar: SL = side line, ML: main line
09:18<Celestar>planetmaker: I don't join lines outside of stations
09:18<Ammler>Celestar: do you have 8.2 installed?
09:18<@peter1138>Priorities and joiners...
09:18<Celestar>Ammler: it'S the diff from about 6 days ago...
09:18<Celestar>I quite agree with peter1138 on that one :D
09:19<planetmaker>:) They ensure a fluent network with max. capacity.
09:19<Ammler>we have a yapp server at #openttdcoop.dev...
09:19<+glx>Celestar: you have some bus killer places ;)
09:20<Celestar>glx: no.
09:20<@peter1138>Yeah, we need better foundations, to allow the road to be raised in some places, to allow bridges.
09:21<Celestar>glx: the crossing close as soon as the track is reserved by yapp
09:21<Celestar>which is ages ahead of the train
09:21<+glx>ha right
09:21<+glx>nice yapp feature
09:21<@peter1138>Damn, I need a Windows build of YAPP, to play right now :p
09:21-!-dlunch [~dlunch@61.108.29.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:22<+glx>peter1138: I can make one if you want ;)
09:22<@peter1138>:D
09:22<planetmaker>http://ps.openttdcoop.org/dev/redirect.php?win32 <--- for you, peter1138 :)
09:22<Brianetta>Celestar: That's cool. Is it just me, or do your level crossing gates turn to lights when trains pass?
09:22<+glx>planetmaker: There is no binary package for OS win32.
09:23<Celestar>Brianetta: dunno. haven'T checked (using TTRS3)
09:23<planetmaker>:P bugger... :)
09:23<Brianetta>Oh, it's just me - there's lights *and* gates.
09:23<eldeng>is it possible to change the company-id of a player to make him the default player?
09:24<@peter1138>No.
09:25-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@ndb.demon.nl] has joined #openttd
09:25<eldeng>as i suspected.. ok, thanks
09:26<Ammler>planetmaker: I made no bins :P
09:26<planetmaker>:(
09:26<Ammler>I didn't upload my linbin, either.
09:26<Ammler>do I need to?
09:26*glx is svn up -r 13680
09:26<fjb>That level crossings with lights and gates are from TTRS.
09:27-!-a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270]
09:27<Ammler>Celestar: congratulations, you read the readme of dbset :-)
09:28<Celestar>Ammler: What do you mean?
09:28<Ammler>most have default roads on rail crossing with dbset and ttrs
09:28<+glx>now fixing conflicts after svn up :)
09:28<Celestar>Ammler: "load dbset before ttrs?"
09:29<Ammler>oh, that would possible too :-)
09:29<Ammler>so you had just luck :P
09:29<Celestar>Brianetta: http://www.fvfischer.de/terminus.png
09:30<Celestar>Ammler: it's been a bit since I read that readme
09:30-!-a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd
09:30<Brianetta>The possibilities for single-track are revealing themselves in my mind
09:31-!-helb_ is now known as helb
09:32<Ammler>Celestar: dbset has a bitswitch to disable the crossovers.
09:32<Eddi|zuHause2>single track has a few blocking issues unless you use 1-way-signals on the sidings
09:32<Ammler>(if you would load dbset after ttrs)
09:33<Celestar>I *still* manage to crash trains with YAPP
09:33<@Rubidium>that is easy to do
09:33<Eddi|zuHause2>i haven't had a crash in ages
09:33<planetmaker>I still manage to crash trains even without yapp :)
09:34-!-Guest64 is now known as Prof_Frink
09:34<Ammler>Celestar: similar station: http://img1.myimg.de/coaldrop901f6.png
09:37<Celestar>WTH?
09:37<Celestar>Error: NOT_REACHED triggered at line 954 of /nfs/home/fischer/coding/openttd/trunk/src/strings.cpp
09:37<+glx>http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/OTTD-MINGW-yapp-8.2-r13729M.zip
09:37-!-Touqen_ is now known as Touqen
09:38<@Rubidium>Celestar: did you have a vehicle window (any) opened at the time?
09:38<Celestar>Aye
09:38<@Rubidium>and one of the vehicles went into a depot for autore(new|place)
09:39<Celestar>Rubidium: that is possible
09:39<Celestar>why?
09:39<@Rubidium>sounds a hell of a lot like http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2098
09:40<+glx>it's YABB ;)
09:40<Celestar>YAAB?
09:40<@Rubidium>Celestar: that too
09:40<Celestar>Rubidium: sounds like that
09:40<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmünster%20Transport,%207.%20Mär%201930.png
09:40<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: i kinda fail to see how that is "similar" :p
09:41<Ammler>:-D
09:41<Ammler>not to the terminus
09:41<Forked>Eddi|zuHause2: that didn't open here :\ The requested URL /~krause/Klein Elsmünster Transport, 7. Mär 1930.png was not found on this server.
09:41<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... umlaut trouble i assume...
09:41<@Rubidium>works here
09:42<Ammler>Forked: enable utf-8
09:42<Forked>bah
09:42<Forked>wtf-8
09:42<Eddi|zuHause2>or disable it ;)
09:43<ln>or give proper urls
09:44<Ammler>Celestar: http://users.tt-forums.net/ameecher/newdepots.html
09:44<Ammler>hmm, aren't there also the original depots available for longer versions?
09:44<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: they look ugly...
09:45<ln>they certainly do
09:45<Celestar>Rubidium: trying with debug symbols
09:45<Celestar>Rubidium: and fixing it :S
09:45<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: agree, check my line after :-P
09:45-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad46225.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:46<hylje>station-like depots
09:46<Eddi|zuHause2>turntables and large engine sheds!
09:46<Ammler>the amazing canset of course, which else :-)
09:46<Celestar>I should try the OpenGL blitter
09:47<Ammler>maybe opengfx
09:47-!-mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:47<Celestar>whether it really speeds things up
09:47<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause2: we don't use umlauts, spaces or similar crap in URLs :P
09:47<fjb>You can simulate large sheds... http://www.myimg.de/?img=BergTal16Aug1982ad026.png
09:47<Eddi|zuHause2>well... i _could_ have renamed the file
09:47<Eddi|zuHause2>but i was lazy ;)
09:48<Lachie>also, are the devs aware that 0.6.1 is not on the ubuntu respositories?
09:48<hylje>yes
09:48<+glx>Lachie: not our job
09:48<Lachie>alright
09:48<Lachie>I'm not familiar with how you get in on there, so just checking
09:48<Ammler>fjb: ah, that is a new depot, isn't?
09:48<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: they look much better... which grf is that?
09:49<fjb>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=38421
09:49<Eddi|zuHause2>the red road bridge looks kinda weird
09:50<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe it's too bright or something...
09:50<fjb>The truck drivers are sometimes drunken. So we painted the bridges red.
09:50-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad46224.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
09:53<@peter1138>Hmm
09:53<fjb>But the set has some really nice brodges: http://www.myimg.de/?img=BergTal19Aug1982f772d.png
09:54<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: you need http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1761 :)
09:58<fjb>Yes. I know. The problem are also two diferent track types on the same tile.
10:06<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: are those opengfx grfs? they look very dark
10:07<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean the rails, landscape, farm
10:07<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: if you feel depressed when looking at them, then likely yes
10:08<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't really like TTRS buildings either
10:08<fjb>Yes OpenGFX.
10:08<Ammler>bridges are TBRS
10:09<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: Make better buildings. I will use them.
10:09<Ammler>or are they used in opengfx too?
10:09<fjb>The bridges are TBRS.
10:09<Ammler>fjb: did you try newbuildings from opengfx?
10:09<fjb>I love acronyms.
10:10<Eddi|zuHause2>MB once announced a building set... but all he ever does is teasers :p
10:10<fjb>Ammler: I didn't try them yet. Thought they are not ready.
10:11<fjb>MB announced much. A building set. A new version of the newships, a new version of DBset XL, a new version of newstations...
10:11<@peter1138>I don't know if he announced them as such.
10:11<fjb>I guess real life cought and never released him.
10:12<@peter1138>More, just posted sneak previews...
10:13<fjb>But there are more and more artists working on grfs. And that is great.
10:15<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%207.%20Maer%201930#1.png
10:15<eldeng>not found
10:16<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, it's the #
10:16<Ammler>"Diese Seite ist leer" <-- lies :P
10:17<ArmEagle>that BuildOTTD thingy is handy. Though you still have to do stuff manually I like it!
10:17<ArmEagle>without much fuzz I could patch both yapp and 32bpp-zoom
10:18<Ammler>http://img1.myimg.de/newhouses226ce.png
10:19<Eddi|zuHause2>try www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%207.%20Maer%201930-1.png now
10:19<eldeng>now it works :)
10:20<+glx>Eddi|zuHause2: station needs more trains ;)
10:20<Eddi|zuHause2>it has, just a slow day ;)
10:21<fjb>Ammler: Looks good. Does every building have a replacement yet?
10:24<Ammler>fjb: no
10:25<Ammler>but they have also snow support.
10:25<Eddi|zuHause2>i need diagonal bridges ;)
10:26<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: tunnel
10:26<Eddi|zuHause2>there are no diagonal tunnels either
10:27<Ammler>you could tunnel the tracks below and then make diagonal tracks which should be a bridge :-)
10:28<Ammler>but I see the part, you would like to use diagonal bridge
10:30<Ammler>[15:53] <fjb> But the set has some really nice brodges: http://www.myimg.de/?img=BergTal19Aug1982f772d.png <-- the RV jam looks like a road train
10:30<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%207.%20Maer%201930-2.png
10:30<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: noticed that, too ;)
10:31<Ammler>fjb: that is 4LV?
10:32-!-grumbel [~grumbel@i577AF87B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
10:32<ArmEagle>yapp ftw, ...and then two trains crashed :)
10:34<@peter1138>You did it wrong.
10:35<@Rubidium>ArmEagle: your construction methods are soo... uhm... 1900
10:35<ArmEagle>i guess.. was playing around with it on a running network
10:35<@Rubidium>currently they stop all train traffic when they are playing with the signals
10:35<ArmEagle>yeah, I can't figure out why they do that these days! :)
10:36<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%207.%20Maer%201930-3.png
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10:40<ln>what's faster than x = abs(y)?
10:41<Eddi|zuHause2>x=y
10:41<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe you need to be more precise about the requirements ;)
10:41<ArmEagle>:)
10:41<planetmaker>lol
10:42<ln>i did try x=y too, but unfortunately y really is negative sometimes.
10:42<ArmEagle>I'd set the pre-condition that y is positive :)
10:43<planetmaker>x=y>0
10:43<planetmaker>works in the language I programm in :P
10:43-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590e48a1.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
10:43<SmatZ>what language is it?
10:43<planetmaker>IDL
10:44<planetmaker>or RSI-IDL
10:44<Ammler>http://www.tjipchallenge.com/ <-- is that over?
10:44<ln>so what i want is, a quicker way to calculate abs(y). it doesn't matter if the result is off by one to either direction.
10:44<ArmEagle>How is abs slow then though?
10:45<ln>it's a lot slower than x=y.
10:45<ArmEagle>yeah, duh.
10:46<ln>hmm, perhaps i could try a table approach.
10:46<@Rubidium>ln: http://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html#IntegerAbs
10:46<ArmEagle>though.. it only has to do a compare to 0, then change the sign, or substract it from 0. How slow can that be? (Or am I missing something here)?
10:47<ln>Rubidium: thanks
10:50<SmatZ>Patented variation:
10:50<SmatZ>r = (v ^ mask) - mask;
10:50<SmatZ>unbelievable, this can be patented?
10:50<@Rubidium>SmatZ: *everything* can be patented
10:50<@Rubidium>you can even patent the wheel
10:50<Prof_Frink>As some crazy aussie did
10:51<@Rubidium>though the patent is worthless because of prior art
10:52-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@5350C1D1.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
10:52<SmatZ>that's sad
10:52<dih>MS have a patent on ctrl+z for undo
10:52<SmatZ>I thought mathematics algorithms can't be patented
10:53<@Rubidium>if software can be patented, then mathematics can too
10:53<@Rubidium>cause software is just basically applied mathematics
10:53<SmatZ>that's my argument against software patents
10:53<SmatZ>but maybe my expectation that math algorithms can't be patented is wrong
10:54<SmatZ>anyway, that URL goes to my Bookmarks ;)
10:55<Eddi|zuHause2><SmatZ> unbelievable, this can be patented? <- the text below states that the patent is most likely invalid
10:56<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: good - my bad
10:56<Eddi|zuHause2>the sad thing is, EU is again discussing about software patents :(
10:57<@Rubidium>patents just lost *all* their value the last tens of years
10:57<SmatZ>why do you think so?
10:58<@Rubidium>companies are 'forcing' people to make patents of all their ideas, so when they have an idea that another company already patented you can swap some (worthless) patents and be happy
10:58<Eddi|zuHause2>patents are useful [and designed for] all physical objects that you can sell as black boxes
10:58<@Rubidium>this basically makes it impossible for small companies to develop something because all basic things will be covered by patents
10:58<Gekz>fuck patents.
10:58<Gekz>>_>
10:59<@Rubidium>and what was the intention of patents... that small companies could invest in something fairly safely, no it is just used to sue them out of the market
10:59<Eddi|zuHause2>patents just don't work in a society that does not exchange physical objects anymore
11:00<@Rubidium>even with physical objects it starts to become pointless
11:00<@Rubidium>seriously... the idea to authenticate yourself using a pin or fingerprint at a printer is covered by dozens of patents
11:01<@Rubidium>so if you want to develop a networkprinter you are forced to buy a lot of licenses from your (bigger) competitors
11:01<Eddi|zuHause2>the innovation level of patents must be very high, otherwise patents are useless
11:02<@Rubidium>there are even companies entirely living on making patents and getting money from them
11:02<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: and that's exactly what it lost lately
11:02<Eddi|zuHause2>that by itself is not a real problem ;)
11:04<Eddi|zuHause2>there is nothing wrong with an "intelligence company" patenting an idea, maybe even providing a prototype, and then licensing the patent to a company that can actually do mass production
11:04<fjb>Ammler: Yes, that is LV4. The vehicles are way to big.
11:05<Ammler>but they look like vehicles, the rvs from generic set looks like ships
11:05<Eddi|zuHause2>that is a known fact about LV :p
11:05-!-elmex [~elmex@e180068243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:06<Ammler>no weehls
11:06<Ammler><<h
11:06<Eddi|zuHause2>didn't pikka once have a road vehicle set??
11:06<Eddi|zuHause2>-?
11:06<fjb>The vehicles from the generic set are looking better in every relaese, so there is hope. And the new generic set starts 1700.
11:06<ccfreak2k>Pikkachu.
11:06<Ammler>HOVS
11:06<@Rubidium>patenting a real ground breaking idea maybe, but the eolas patent... patenting that you can add a reference to some object in html
11:07<Ammler>also the narv (or how is it called) is promising
11:07<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but how do you want to measure an innovation level?
11:07<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: is that released?
11:08<Ammler>a testversion afaik
11:08<fjb>The german road vehicle sets also look promising. But they have nobody who makes the trucks.
11:08<Ammler>only looked at screens :-)
11:09*fjb hates software patents.
11:09<Ammler>isn't pikka the coder of the narv set?
11:09<ccfreak2k>Eddi|zuHause2, the USPO takes care of that.
11:10<Eddi|zuHause2>ccfreak2k: obviously not effective.
11:10-!-Doorslammer|online [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-183.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd
11:10<@Rubidium>ccfreak2k: takes care of innovation level?
11:11<ccfreak2k>Rubidium, they determine whether or not your idea allows for a patent.
11:11<@Rubidium>not really
11:11<ccfreak2k>Oh yeah, that's how I got my patent on breathing.
11:11<ccfreak2k>Wait, no it's not.
11:12<@Rubidium>whether your patent is worth something is determined in court
11:12<ccfreak2k>There you go then/
11:12<@Rubidium>again I think of the eolas patent
11:12<ccfreak2k>The system works.
11:12<@Rubidium>ccfreak2k: no, it does not
11:12<Eddi|zuHause2>ccfreak2k: no, it doesn'T
11:12<@Rubidium>it's basic terrorism
11:12<hylje>patent trolling
11:13<Eddi|zuHause2>ccfreak2k: ever heard of the term "patent troll"?
11:13<@Rubidium>oh, company X has a patent of something I use, might be a worthless patent, but I'll just pay them to not get sued
11:13<ccfreak2k>Whatever you say. I'll leave you two to jerk each other off.
11:14<Doorslammer|online>I again...
11:14<Doorslammer|online>...have joined at the wrong moment
11:14<Eddi|zuHause2>even the EU people that are for software patents realise that he current american system is worthless
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11:25<fjb>Can somebody draw this? http://www.maerklin.de/de/service/suche/details.html?page=3&perpage=10&level1=2341&level2=2346&art_nr=37975&search=1&era=2&gaugechoice=2&groupchoice=1&subgroupchoice=1&catalogue=0&features=0&searchtext=&backlink=%2Fwww.maerklin.de%2Fde%2Fservice%2Fsuche%2Fproduktsuche.html
11:26<Sacro>fjb: that's a long url
11:26<Sacro>might take some time
11:26<fjb>Yes, sorry, didn't find a shorter one.
11:28<Prof_Frink>Sacro: http://tinyurl.com/dampflokomotive
11:28<Sacro>that sounds vulgar
11:28<Sacro>damp flok eh
11:28<hylje>http://www.hugeurl.com/?ODA5MzFjZDk5ZmIzYmU3MGU4M2I0MDQ4YThkNDI1MzcmNCZWMVpXYjFVd01VaFVhMUpYVjBoQ1UxWlVSbGRPVmxaMFlrWmFiRlpyY0RGWGExSlBZVEpXVlZacVFsaFdiVkpZV2xaa1JtVlhWa2xSYld4b1ZrWmFlVll5ZUU5V2JWWlhVMjVTVm1KWWFFeFdhMVozVTBac05sTnNaR3hXTVVvd1dXdGtkMWxXVlhoV2FsWldZbFJXVUZSV1duSmxWMFpJWlVWMFYxSllRa2xXTW5SclZqQXhSMkpHYUdsVFJUVnhXbFpTVjJSc2NFWlpNMmhxVFVoQ1ZsWkhkR3RoYkVsM1YyNVdXR0pGTlZkYVYzaExVbFpTV0dWRk5XaGlTRUY2VmpKNGIxTXlVWGhpUm1oaFVqTm9URlpyVlRGU2JGSlhWV3
11:29<hylje>sorry, i think it didn't come out in whole
11:30<SmatZ>:-D
11:30<fjb>I try to find a shortcut.
11:30<Eddi|zuHause2>Prof_Frink already posted one
11:31<Sacro>hylje: you should tinyurl that
11:31<fjb>http://www.maerklin.de/de/produkte/detailsh0.html?page=4&perpage=10&level1=27&level2=33&art_nr=37975&era=0&gaugechoice=2&groupchoice=1&subgroupchoice=0&backlink=%2Fwww.maerklin.de%2Fde%2Fprodukte%2Fspur_h0%2Flokomotiven.html
11:31<hylje>i considered hugeurling the tinyurl
11:31<hylje>but that's perverse
11:34<fjb>Or something like this: http://tinyurl.com/6qk3yq
11:35<fjb>Wikipeadia has the stats of many ancient lokomotives, but there are almost no pictures.
11:35-!-GoneWacko [~gonewacko@adsl-58.35.Static.ssp.fi] has quit []
11:36<Eddi|zuHause2>i noticed that, tooo
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11:43-!-AmixE90 [~AmixE@21-178-255.ggsn.netcom.no] has joined #openttd
11:43<AmixE90>Hey
11:43<AmixE90>Love trams in openttd :)
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11:48<KingJ>Good capacity, slow speed
11:52<AmixE90>Great for passengers
11:53<AmixE90>My city, www.tv7norge.com/MorphOS/openttd.png
11:53<Sacro>morphos?
11:54-!-Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-179-204.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
11:55<Digitalfox>peter1138 have you seen the new GRF Road set of Zephrys using the engine pool? Pretty awesome =0
11:57<Eddi|zuHause2>i hate the default tram tracks
11:58<Digitalfox>have you tried zephrys new set Eddi|zuHause2 ?
11:58<Digitalfox>* Zephyris
11:58<AmixE90>Sacro: www,morphos-team.net
11:58<Eddi|zuHause2>no.
11:59<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm on strike ;)
11:59<Digitalfox>lol Eddi
12:02<Ammler>Digitalfox: do they have wheels?
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12:04<Digitalfox>Ammler wheels? There's horses =0
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12:12<Ammler>omg, are those horses nice!
12:18<AmixE90>Eddi|zuHause2: what tram tracks do you recommend?
12:18<AmixE90>Which?
12:18<Eddi|zuHause2>any other should do ;)
12:19<AmixE90>Does trams make cities grow?
12:19<Eddi|zuHause2>like any other transport
12:19<AmixE90>Oki
12:20<Eddi|zuHause2>the main critics point about the tram tracks is the amount of pylons it places
12:20<Eddi|zuHause2>all track sets i know solve that
12:20<Eddi|zuHause2>then it's basically only about what gauge you want ;)
12:21<AmixE90>I wish there was LTR or metro available... With stations underground and leveled
12:24<Eddi|zuHause2>provide a patch ;)
12:27<AmixE90>:)
12:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13730 /trunk/src/ (43 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: make a copy of the names for news messages about the deletion of companies as the removal of a company could lead to wrong names in the news messages.
12:39-!-Zeal [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
12:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13731 /trunk/src/ (38 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: make a pool of the array of players.
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12:57<@peter1138>Digitalfox, no, I haven't.
13:07<Digitalfox>peter1138 you should try it :)
13:12<@peter1138>I might, I've just downloaded a YAPP build...
13:12<@peter1138>(Thanks glx)
13:12<+glx>np :)
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13:16<@peter1138>I've not played with ISR 0.7 yet, either.
13:16<Wolf01>hello
13:18<@peter1138>Hey, millions of horse-drawn carriages...
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13:24<Ammler>they are so cute!
13:25<ccfreak2k>"Real programmers don't write in BASIC. Actually, no programmers write
13:25<ccfreak2k>in BASIC after reaching puberty."
13:25<Digitalfox>peter1138 you couldn't resist lol
13:26<Digitalfox>Blizzard support is amazing, they still support games released 12 years ago.. =0
13:27<+glx>they have enough money for that ;)
13:27-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad9f9eb.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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13:27<Digitalfox>glx, yes true, but nonetheless they could just not care like many game company's do :)
13:28<ccfreak2k>I was suprised even to see a patch for Warcraft III recently.
13:29<+glx>btw if they support them, it means they still sell them
13:29<Digitalfox>I wonder.. Why don't games company remake some of there popular games? An example done is Tomb Raider, but heard anything about any game remake..
13:29-!-Yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
13:29<Digitalfox>glx, for example Warcraft 2 they don't sell it anymore and still support it :)
13:29-!-Klanticus [~Klanticus@189.35.31.36] has joined #openttd
13:29<joachim>glx: if companies have "enough money", they truly are great
13:29<joachim>not many of those... :)
13:30*peter1138 needs to raise £1.2 million
13:30<@Rubidium>ALT-1
13:31<@peter1138>I'll try it.
13:31-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@5350C1D1.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
13:31<Ammler>Digitalfox: I have the extension package for wc2, but no original anymore...
13:31<Digitalfox>peter1138 you do? Play on euro millions you still have 30 minutes before it closes =0
13:31<+glx>peter1138: it's not a debug build
13:31<Digitalfox>Ammler I'm getting war2 Blattle Net :)
13:31<@peter1138>Hmm, could do.
13:31<@peter1138>And I do actually mean in real life :P
13:32<Digitalfox>By the way, I have to go play on euro millions before it closes 20M€ of prize.. bye for now..
13:32<Digitalfox>I'm telling peter to do it and forgot myself :(
13:36<@peter1138>Hmm, can I play online...
13:36<@peter1138>Oh, I can... Haha
13:37<Yorick>Yorick@YORICK-LAPTOP /home/ottdsrc/mega2/projects
13:37<Yorick>$ ./generate
13:37<Yorick>sh: ./generate: No such file or directory
13:37<Yorick>:(
13:38<+glx>strange
13:38<Yorick>also sh generate gives me nothing
13:38<+glx>on windows?
13:38<Yorick>mingw
13:38<+glx>generate.vbs is faster
13:38<Yorick>and it works
13:39<Yorick>but that sh script should work with sh
13:39<@Rubidium>but mings has no sh
13:39<@Rubidium>it has only bash
13:39<+glx>no it has no bash and sh is bash
13:40<Yorick>sh: bash: command not found
13:40<+glx>Yorick: both works for me
13:40<Yorick>$ sh --version
13:40<Yorick>GNU bash, version 2.04.0(1)-release (i686-pc-msys)
13:40<Yorick>glx: hmm...possibly a vista issue
13:40<+glx>GNU bash, version 3.1.0(1)-release (i686-pc-msys)
13:42<Yorick>I'm getting a clean version of the openttd chat-commands
13:42<@Rubidium>oh vista... that voids the support
13:42<+glx>just use the vbs on windows anyway
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14:15<Yorick>/src/network/../core/enum_type.hpp:88: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `FORCEINLINE' with no type
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14:23<@Rubidium>Yorick: what did you change now?
14:24<Yorick>I added an empty h file to the source.list and included it somewhere
14:24<Yorick>src/network/../openttd.h:19: error: `byte' does not name a type
14:25<@Rubidium>include stdafx.h first in all .cpp files
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14:25<Yorick>it's a h file
14:26<@Rubidium>well... somewhere it includes a header without including stdafx.h first
14:26*Yorick checks...ah...there...fixed :)
14:26<Yorick>thank you
14:27-!-Mirrakor [~linuser@p57B2E518.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:27<Yorick>you cleared me some errors
14:29<Yorick>src/network/network_internal.h:116: error: `VARDEF' does not name a type
14:31<@Rubidium>VARDEF is *evil*
14:31<@Rubidium>do not use it
14:31<Yorick>I DONT
14:31<@Rubidium>because it guarantees your patch to be not working in the future
14:32<Yorick>network_internal.h:116 is an empty line
14:33<@Rubidium>if you have that error it isn't
14:33<@Rubidium>at least not the one it is using
14:33<Yorick>hmm
14:33<Yorick>text editors with tabs that do not show paths
14:33-!-Klanticus [~Klanticus@189.35.31.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:33<Yorick>evil
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14:34<Yorick>the 0.6 network_internal.h is full of VARDEF
14:34<@Rubidium>the trunk one isn't
14:35<Yorick>true
14:35<Yorick>but I'm working on 0.6
14:35<Yorick>it appears to want openttd.h for its network_internal purposes
14:46*TiberiusTeng starts trying to make the cargo-filtering widget
14:57-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-26-82-230.nrth.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
14:58<Ammler>TiberiusTeng: did you see my post at newgrf gui?
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15:01<TiberiusTeng>yes, I've read it. I'll try to incorporate the economy thing later :)
15:01-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:01<Brianetta>http://www.explosm.net/comics/1347/
15:01<Brianetta>hee hee
15:01-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
15:03<fjb>:-)
15:03<TiberiusTeng>about trunk inclusion proposal ...
15:03<TiberiusTeng>I think they'll include it when they think it's okay :P
15:04<TiberiusTeng>really don't have time begging for it or handle some quick-fixing response
15:05<Yorick>Ammler: that patch resets inflation too
15:06<Ammler>yes, of course
15:06<Ammler>that is the problem
15:06<Ammler>no, it is not the problem, just you need to know it :-)
15:06<TiberiusTeng>so we can cheat by opening the NewGRF window, then apply the new settings? :P
15:06<Yorick>possibly only do it if inflation is disabled
15:06<Yorick>T: quite
15:07<Ammler>isn't there a red msg box anyway?
15:07<Ammler>if you change grfs...
15:07<Eddi|zuHause2>"just you need to know it" <- that is not an argument
15:07<Yorick>yes...but translated
15:08<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: OTTD official has no GRF change support
15:08<Ammler>so if you change that, you "fuck up" the settings anyway, so do you really care about the infaltion?
15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: that is true, but it will also do stuff if you don't change grfs. or change non-industry grfs
15:09<TiberiusTeng>can we just 'redo' the inflation progress ?
15:09<@peter1138>"officialLY"
15:09<Ammler>that is why you should know it, I suggest a additional "reset" button then. :-)
15:10<@peter1138>What needs to be reset?
15:10<@peter1138>Having a reset button in a game smells of something gone wrong elsewhere.
15:10<Yorick>economy
15:10<Yorick>peter1138: something with newcargoes
15:10<Ammler>engines and cargo
15:11<Ammler>engines has the console command which you would like to remove too.
15:11<Yorick>^^
15:11<Ammler>or is the function itself the "ugly" thing?
15:12<@peter1138>Solution: Don't change NewGRFs.
15:12<Ammler>or play TTDPatch, I know
15:13<Ammler>but I would like to use OTTD :P
15:16<@peter1138>I have no idea how well TTDPatch copes with changing NewGRFs, and don't really care.
15:17<Ammler>at least, it does.
15:17<Ammler>I do not know more, do also not care :-)
15:17<@peter1138>Also, you piss me off
15:17<DaleStan>Unless you remove industries or cargoes that are in use, nothing breaks.
15:17<@peter1138>So I don't care.
15:18<SpComb>hmm... gdb thinks my bin/openttd isn't an executable, yet I can execute it fine via bash, and file says it's a "ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped"
15:18<SpComb>(gdb says "not in executable format: File format not recognized")
15:19<DaleStan>"stripped"? Could that cause problems for gdb?
15:20<SpComb>I thought that was odd as well, but I'm not really familiar with what it means
15:20<@peter1138>No.
15:20<@peter1138>That just means you don't get debug symbols (so gdb is pretty useless anyway)
15:20<SpComb>I configured OpenTTD with --enable-debug
15:21-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
15:21<TiberiusTeng>seems your gdb isn't targeted for x86-64 ?
15:22<SpComb>I've used it before on this machine, and I'm pretty sure I've been building x86-64 executables
15:22<SpComb>yes, I can use gdb fine with other files that I've compiled that `file` shows as x86-64
15:23<SpComb>and the only difference is indeed "stripped" vs "not stripped"
15:26<SpComb>ah well, I'll try again with --enable-debug=3, I think that'll work better
15:27<+glx>--enable-debug=3 is always better for gdb
15:27<+glx>no inlines
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15:27<SpComb>yeah, and -O0 vs -O2
15:30<SpComb>indeed, it works
15:31<SpComb>interesting that a google search for that error didn't turn up anything relevant
15:34<Brianetta>dih: MrConsole should pause the game when nobody's about. he's damned cool, though
15:37-!-TrueBrain [truelight@80.247.163.110] has joined #openttd
15:37<TrueBrain>burp
15:38<TrueBrain>No Unauthroised what?
15:38<TrueBrain>@op
15:38-!-mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
15:38<+glx>it used to be bots
15:39-!-TrueBrain changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots
15:39<@TrueBrain>I removed 'archive' and 'maillist', both out-dated
15:39<@TrueBrain>@deop
15:39-!-mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
15:39<Noldo>TrueBrain: how's nail?
15:39<TrueBrain>@bark
15:39<@DorpsGek>bark bark
15:39<Yorick>what do we need to thank for this unexpected visit, oh lord TrueBrain _O_
15:39<+glx>there was a "No Idiots" for some time
15:40-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:40<Yorick>?
15:40<TrueBrain>Yorick: I was looking for someone to kick, so I checked which channels you were in :p
15:40<+glx>lol
15:41<Brianetta>Oooh, yapp applied to tonight's nightly
15:42<Brianetta>That saved changing revision
15:42<Eddi|zuHause2>YAPP should be IN today's nigtly :p
15:43-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
15:43<fjb>I guess it will sometime in the future.
15:44<Forked>with maybe less cpu usage when not in use :\
15:44<@Rubidium>fjb: the future will not add YAPP to today's (i.e. 2008-07-18's) nightly
15:45<Noldo>but future's today is not today's today
15:45<TrueBrain>Rubidium, as picky as always :)
15:45<fjb>Rubidium: Ok you convinced me.
15:48<TrueBrain>Rubidium: FS reports still reported incompletely?
15:48<TrueBrain>Vote No UTF-8; Vote No UTF-8
15:48<@Rubidium>seems to be okay now
15:48<TrueBrain>so it was just (an other) network hickup ;)
15:51<Eddi|zuHause2>UTF-8 is bad, we should all use EBCDIC :p
15:52<Yorick>vote No chinese bugreports
15:52<TrueBrain>vote No!
15:52<Yorick>to Obama!
15:52<TrueBrain>glad to see you guys are still a fun bunch
15:53<TrueBrain>Yorick: that should deserve a kick ...
15:53<Yorick>...
15:53<Yorick>could you stop looking for opportunities to kick me, it scares me
15:53<TrueBrain>but you make it so very easy ...
15:53<TrueBrain>glx: can you provide me with how the nightly line looked like? (in the days it worked :p)
15:54<Sacro>argh a TrueBrain
15:54<Yorick>he makes it easier ^^
15:56<TrueBrain>but Sacro is nice :)
15:56<Sacro>is he?
15:56<TrueBrain>aren't you?
15:57<Sacro>well i'm certainly confused
15:57<Yorick>he is?
15:57<TrueBrain>aren't you always?
15:57<Sacro>alas poor Yorick
15:57<Sacro>TrueBrain: no, i can be a pain
15:57<TrueBrain>you can?
15:57<Sacro>i can
15:57<TrueBrain>@kick TrueBrain enough is enough
15:57-!-TrueBrain was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [enough is enough]
15:57<Yorick>argh a Sacro
15:57*Sacro scuttles off
15:57<Yorick>he likes kicking...it seems
15:57<@peter1138>Me too
15:58-!-Yorick was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [Whoops]
15:58-!-Yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
15:58<Osai>hi peter1138 :D
15:58<Osai>I heard two booom's
15:58<Wolf01>meee meee meee!!
15:58<Yorick>hi peter1138
15:58<Osai>sounded like a war
15:59<Yorick>there is a wolf that woud not mind kicking...
16:00<ln>hello, communists
16:01<TiberiusTeng>oops
16:01<Yorick>and there is a ln that would certainly not
16:08-!-TrueBrain [truelight@80.247.163.110] has joined #openttd
16:08-!-Yorick was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [AND a yorick too!]
16:08-!-Yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
16:08<TrueBrain>reminder to self, do what you came for before kicking yourself
16:08<Yorick>:D
16:09-!-Klanticus [~Klanticus@189.35.31.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:09*TrueBrain likes peter1138 :)
16:10<TrueBrain>@openttd servers
16:10<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Servers online: 156; Running version 0.6.1 (latest): 79; Clients online: 114
16:10<Yorick>some guy is planning to set up 100
16:10<@Rubidium>looks still normal
16:10<@Rubidium>less clients than servers
16:11<TrueBrain>yup
16:11<TrueBrain>@openttd bugs
16:11<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Open Bugs: 45; Not assigned: 31; Closed this week: 7; Opened this week: 7
16:11<ln>Rubidium: *fewer
16:11<Yorick>balanced :)
16:12<Ammler>TrueBrain: http://www.openttdserver.de/server_stats/
16:13<TrueBrain>Ammler: good for you :)
16:13<Ammler>:P
16:14<Ammler>GRF "ladder" doesn't change much...
16:15<KingJ>Hmm, is there any reason why towns start to expand really slowly late in the game? (2100+)
16:16<joachim>if they do, there is a reason
16:16<TrueBrain>lol, even a bug would be a reason, cool ideology :)
16:17<KingJ>All well supplied etc
16:17<Forked>"it wouldn't happen if it wasn't coded that way"
16:17<joachim>TrueBrain: right :)
16:17<TrueBrain>Forked: that for sure isn't true :)
16:17<Forked>but if it happens the code told it to do so :\
16:17<TrueBrain>what if the OS changed the code runtime and made it do something else?
16:18<Forked>then the OS was coded to do so, and it's still code doing it?
16:18<TrueBrain>if you define that as 'code', you are right :)
16:18<TrueBrain>but 'instructions' would be better ;)
16:18<Yorick>what if the user changed the code runtime and made it do something else?
16:19<Yexo>the the code of word can type letters! Ok, it needs some help from the user, but the code shows the letters on the screen
16:19<Yorick>Yexo: you're claiming your chat is actually AI?
16:20<TrueBrain>who mentoined the word AI?
16:20<Forked>TrueBrain: but is the OS not made out of code that too?
16:20*Yorick raises hand
16:20<TrueBrain>or give you the idea of any intelligence on the part of the code?
16:20<TrueBrain>@kick Yorick go fish
16:20<Yexo>no, I'm only claiming some codes in my computer are sending this message to you all :P)
16:20-!-Yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [go fish]
16:20-!-Yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
16:20*Yorick brought TB fish!
16:20<joachim>if AI made TTD he would have made himself smarter
16:20<TrueBrain>Forked: depends on which OS :) I know a few OSes which isn't built from 'code'
16:21<Yexo>Yorick is going to set a record: "How many times can you be kicked in one hour"
16:21<TrueBrain>dunno if you can call it an OS ..
16:21<Forked>written in machine code?
16:21<Yorick>Yexo: no, I've broke that in noai
16:21<Forked>note to self: never argue about code-related stuff with a coder .. at least not before you can code
16:21<TrueBrain>hehe @ Forked :)
16:21<joachim>btw, you shouldn't blaim the code for things that does not happen
16:21<Yorick>note to self: never argue with TrueBrain
16:21<joachim>like growth, our doing your shopping
16:21<TrueBrain>Forked: yes, machine code, or worse: what is the english word .. those things with holes?
16:21<joachim>;)
16:21<TrueBrain>which they used to use ..
16:22<Forked>punch cards
16:22<TrueBrain>YES! :)
16:22-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1F503.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:22<TrueBrain>Yorick: in your case, wise idea
16:22<joachim>ibm <3
16:22<Yexo>joachim: so you shouldn't blame your computer if it does nothing?
16:22<Forked>but machine code .. still contains the word CODE! :p
16:22<TrueBrain>encode, also contanis the word code, but if it has anything to do with programming ...
16:22<TrueBrain>I am sure we can find more words with the word 'code' in it
16:23<Yorick>decode
16:23<Forked>it's probably code somewhere encoding though .. ;p
16:23<Forked>ok I'll shut it now :)
16:23<TrueBrain>really, 5 minutes in this channel, and Yorick already annoys me
16:23<TrueBrain>you have a second sense for that Yorick?
16:23<joachim>Yexo: then it's the lack of code, not the code, that is the problem :P
16:23<TrueBrain>Forked: depends, if you do it with pen and paper :)
16:23<Yorick>some people really get annoyed by me easily
16:23<Yorick>I've counted 2 so far
16:23<TrueBrain>you can count?
16:23<TrueBrain>wow ..
16:23<TrueBrain>but my guess is you can't count past 2
16:24<TrueBrain>1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, ..
16:24<TrueBrain>as I estimate the number to be around 90
16:24<TrueBrain>where I assume 3 bots :p
16:24<Yorick>it's more around 10
16:24<Yexo>or he counts 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, ...... , 2
16:24<joachim>10 as in ten or three?
16:24<TrueBrain>Yexo: haha :)
16:24<TrueBrain>joachim: nerd
16:24<joachim>i might be code
16:24<Yorick>code
16:24<Yorick>noes
16:24<Yorick>code
16:25<TrueBrain>"the other's got annoyed enough to have you on /ignore so they can't be annoyed by you anymore" -- anonymous
16:25<Yorick>I wonder if D. has
16:25<Forked>hm, usually it's me that annoy people.. I guess I'm not active enough for that here :)
16:25<TrueBrain>so far you seem like a fun guy Forked :p
16:25<Yexo><joachim> i might be code <- if code qualifies as bot, you're not allowed here :p
16:25<Yorick>TB: you're strange...sacro annoys you not, but I do
16:26<TrueBrain>but I like Sacro :)
16:26<Forked>heh :p
16:26<Yorick>cantbe
16:26<TrueBrain>I always messed up Sacro and SpComb, which was good for Sacro's reputation :)
16:26<TrueBrain>s/messed up/confused/
16:26<Sacro>haha
16:26*Sacro throws a log at TrueBrain
16:27*TrueBrain dodges
16:27*Yorick catches
16:27*Yexo runs away from Yorick
16:27<joachim>hm
16:27<joachim>i saw a bot earlier
16:27*TrueBrain kicks Yorick out of the channel
16:27-!-Yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [you missed]
16:27-!-Yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
16:28<joachim>i see a bot :)
16:28<TrueBrain>@bark
16:28<@DorpsGek>bark bark
16:28<Yorick>it's a village idiot
16:28<joachim>ah, like me
16:29<TrueBrain>but then a bit more static
16:31-!-Yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: youtube.com/watch?v=jNBNqUdqm1E and Poef!]
16:32<TrueBrain>like he would never leave :p
16:32<+glx>when he'll come back I'll kick him for posting a youtube link :)
16:32<TrueBrain>:)
16:33<TrueBrain>you guys are even more mean than I am :p
16:34<+glx>though it's a nice video
16:35-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1F503.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:36-!-Yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
16:36<Yorick>The youtube videos need to be ontopic...this one is :)
16:36<SpComb>TrueBrain: you mean you loved Sacro more than me? :<
16:36<TrueBrain>glx: it is all yours :)
16:36<TrueBrain>SpComb: not really ...
16:36<Yorick>and get me the no offtopic youtube link rule
16:36<Yorick>from the topic :)
16:38-!-Yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit []
16:38<+glx>arg too slow
16:40<KingJ>Argh, stupid inflation. Destroying my game
16:41-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~yorick@*] by peter1138
16:41<@peter1138>There :p
16:41<TrueBrain>peter1138: you made the world a better place :)
16:41<TrueBrain>poor yorick
16:42<Forked>peter1138 - Making the world a better place, one IRC channel at the time =D
16:42-!-DJNekkid [~chatzilla@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd
16:42<Forked>heya dj
16:43<DJNekkid>sorry for asking again, but are you guys sure that the callback 36 type 17 (purch cost) work for train wagons?
16:43<DJNekkid>hi Forked
16:43<DJNekkid>-1 * 0 02 00 B5 81 10 00 FF 04 \b45 80 14 14 \b51 80 16 16 \b20 80 0D 0D \b135 80 17 17 B4 00 <-- dont work
16:43<TrueBrain>DJNekkid: lets ask the gods :)
16:44<DJNekkid>isnt that just what i did?
16:44<TrueBrain>yup :)
16:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13732 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt network/network_gui.cpp window_gui.h): -Feature: add a few extra columns with information to the server list. Patch by Pegasus.
16:44<TrueBrain>but it is missing the silly dance that comes with it :)
16:45<@peter1138>DJNekkid: Are you dealing with articulated parts?
16:45<DJNekkid>no
16:46<@peter1138>And the other bits of that line work?
16:46<DJNekkid>yes ...
16:46<DJNekkid>http://paste.openttd.org/32740
16:46<DJNekkid>here is the whole section for that train
16:47<TrueBrain>every time I see NewGRF lines, all my brain things is: ..... *deep silence* .... :)
16:47<TrueBrain>respect to those who understand it ;)
16:47<TrueBrain>bye all :)
16:47-!-TrueBrain [truelight@80.247.163.110] has left #openttd [blub]
16:47<@peter1138>You haven't formatted that very well.
16:47<DJNekkid>i know
16:48<@peter1138>You know you can have line breaks, right?
16:48<@Rubidium>formatting and comments is 90% of understanding nfo ;)
16:48<DJNekkid>i comment all my stuff pretty good tho :)
16:48<@peter1138>No, that Action 0 is not commented well at all.
16:48<DJNekkid>and the paster dont seem to handle tab's very well :)
16:49<DJNekkid>the action 0 is a matter of copy/paste and forget :)
16:49<DJNekkid>hehe
16:49<DJNekkid>it's commented, just that the commentes dont mach up
16:49<DJNekkid>it just so that i can remember what parts do what :)
16:50<@peter1138>This is why line breaks are useful.
16:50<DJNekkid>i heavent gotten that to work ... atleast with a -1 * 0 ...
16:50<DaleStan>Are you quite sure the wagon gets attached to the engine (thus triggering the override 3) *before* the vehicle gets purchased?
16:51<joachim>nfos have comments?
16:51<@peter1138>If it's an override, then no, that won't work.
16:51<DJNekkid>ehm ...
16:51<DJNekkid>but the capacity and weight works
16:51<DJNekkid>and the running cost as well ...
16:51<DJNekkid>just not the purchase price (17)
16:51<@peter1138>They're modified when the wagon is attached.
16:52<DaleStan>How many times does purchase price get called? Exactly once. On purchase.
16:52<@peter1138>Purchase price is always before it's attached.
16:52<DJNekkid>oh ...
16:52<DaleStan>The rest are called in the vehicle window and again immediately after attachment.
16:52<DJNekkid>oh ...
16:52<DaleStan>The rest are called in the vehicle *purchase* window and again immediately after attachment.
16:53<DJNekkid>so, i guess there is no way of doing what i want there then
16:53-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:54<TiberiusTeng>speaking of GRFs, I always wondered why it's xpos ypos ysize xsize ... i.e. the order of x/y is reversed when describing the size
16:57<DJNekkid>or is it possible to do a "if ice3 then get higher price" on the wagon?
16:58*Ammler is checking newest HEAD, seems a nice addon :-)
16:59<joachim>is the number of units forced?
17:00<frosch123>TiberiusTeng: because ysize xsize xrel yrel is the order in the binary .grf. Now it's your turn: Can you tell me why they start with "DO NOT MODIFY" :p
17:00<@peter1138>DJNekkid: As that's what you've just been trying, no.
17:00<DJNekkid>peter1138: isnt it kida opposite?
17:01<@peter1138>Hmm?
17:01<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13733 /trunk/src/ (oldpool_func.h player_base.h): -Fix (r13731): gcc2.95 compilation
17:02<SpComb>is sscanf portable in OpenTTD code? It's used in src/network/network.cpp, but both cases are behind #ifdefs
17:02<DJNekkid>peter1138: either way ... i guess ill scratch that idea :)
17:03<SmatZ>SpComb: I think it doesn't work in windows builds, but I may be terribly wrong.... there was some problem with s(n)printf not supported there, I don't really remember
17:06<DJNekkid>but a counterquestion peter1138 ... if i were dealing with articulated parts, would it help?
17:07<@peter1138>No, you only pay for the first part.
17:07<DJNekkid>oki ... i guess ill set the price to a typical 8part formation then
17:08<DaleStan>TiberiusTeng: Because that's what GRFCodec expects. And *that* is because the order in the GRF file is ysize xsize xrel yrel.
17:08<DaleStan>If you want to know why the grf file is encoded that way, you'll have to ask CS.
17:09<TiberiusTeng>ha ... indeed.
17:10<TiberiusTeng>DaleStan, thanks for that info
17:10-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host217-44-86-192.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
17:11<DJNekkid>btw, does anyone have a nice remix of "viva la vida" ? :)
17:11<ben_goodger>...
17:16-!-fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
17:21<Eddi|zuHause2>YOU are the DJ :p
17:22<DJNekkid>i know, but i lack that one...
17:22<DJNekkid>and i got a gig tomorrow, and i cant find one
17:22<DJNekkid>cept on youtube
17:25-!-Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-138-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
17:26<DJNekkid>Frostregen :)
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17:34-!-ProfFrink [~proffrink@5ad545e5.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
17:39<DJNekkid>crapshit! i found one, but it wont dl
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18:04<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... which revision was the quarry fix?
18:04<+glx>long time ago I think
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>i have a fear that my yapp version is older :p
18:07<fjb>Quarry fix?
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>it does not appear to say "quarry" in the log...
18:08-!-AmixE90 [~AmixE@21-178-255.ggsn.netcom.no] has quit [Quit: La mour De Morph]
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: industry placement check was failing for quarries
18:09<Eddi|zuHause2>[from PBI]
18:10<fjb>Oh. In some games the quarry appears. But most of the time the placement function doesn't find any place for it. But that isn't easy anyway.
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18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: on a 2048^2 map when all other industries are about 60, having 0 quarries is kinda odd :p
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>also, it fails for manual placement
18:20-!-Guest145 [~Dale@pool-71-120-109-218.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:20<fjb>Yes, but as I understood it the placement function choses a random place and test the conditions then.
18:21<frosch123>@openttd commit 12759
18:21<@DorpsGek>frosch123: Commit by belugas :: r12759 trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp (2008-04-18 03:17:22 UTC)
18:21<@DorpsGek>frosch123: -Fix(r12358): There is no need to mask callback result for pre-version7 since CBID_INDTILE_SHAPE_CHECK (cb2F) is really 15 bits.
18:21<frosch123>but IIRC it was broken and fixed several times :p
18:22<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: there was also a "quarry update" itself
18:23<Ammler>do you use the newest PBI ?
18:23<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: yes, i know that, but it still fails without the code fix
18:27-!-De_Ghost [~s@CPE001d7e66291b-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd
18:30<SpComb>http://qmsk.srv.myottd.net/~terom/stuff/openttd-newgrf-download.png
18:31<SpComb>that's how far I've gotten - it filters out the missing NewGRFs, displays them, and then requests available NewGRFs from the central db
18:31<SpComb>next step would be to download the NewGRFs and activate them
18:32<Ammler>it should download a archive (tar)
18:32<Ammler>some has readmes...
18:33<SpComb>it does, the truncated URL ends in dbsetxl.tar
18:42<SpComb>http://hg.marttila.de/repos/ottdgrfs-openttd.hg/ <-- there's the mercury
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18:44<Brianetta>YAPP has a bug which crashes my trains into each other
18:45<Ammler>Brianetta: really? do you play with 8.2?
18:45<Brianetta>Let me read the patch
18:45<Brianetta>hmm
18:45<Brianetta>How do I tell?
18:46<Brianetta>I downloaded it today
18:46<Brianetta>yes
18:46<Brianetta>8.2
18:46<Brianetta>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=699794#p699794
18:46<Brianetta>That one
18:46<Brianetta>patched against tonight's nightly
18:46<Brianetta>erm
18:46<Ammler>:-)
18:46<Brianetta>r13731M
18:46<Ammler>I believe you... :P
18:47<Brianetta>and my trains explode (:
18:47-!-GoneWacko [GoneWacko@86-60-147-155-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has joined #openttd
18:50<Eddi|zuHause2>reproduceable?
18:50<Brianetta>Will be
18:50*Brianetta is posting and attaching the necessaries
18:52<Eddi|zuHause2>frosch123: thanks, that was the right fix ;)
18:52<Eddi|zuHause2>my build is 12697M
18:53<Eddi|zuHause2>which was like 60 revisions before that fix
18:53<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: did you end your strike :P
18:53<Eddi|zuHause2>no, i just loosened the constraints ;)
18:53<Brianetta>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=710056#p710056
18:53<Brianetta>YAPP bugrep
18:53<Brianetta>for those who are keen
18:53<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't not play, but instead i don't update :p
18:54<Eddi|zuHause2>well... you know how it works with addictions...
18:55<Brianetta>I don't need to post config on modern OpenTTDs do I?
18:55<Eddi|zuHause2>you shouldn't
18:55<Eddi|zuHause2>most settings are saved in the game
18:55<Brianetta>That should be enough, then
18:56<Brianetta>Saved game, revision, patch version and grfs
18:56-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590e48a1.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:56-!-Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
18:56*Brianetta has been a professional tester
18:57<Brianetta>I can find bugs, reproduce them *and* describe them.
18:58<Ammler>ottdc_grfpack 7.1 is now compatible with your server :-)
18:58<Brianetta>Cool.
18:58<Brianetta>Mind you, we're updating to industry renewal soon
18:58<Ammler>what should I do do make the crash?
18:58<Brianetta>See that link I posted?
18:58<Brianetta>Just load the game and wait
18:59<Brianetta>Or build a similar system and wait longer
19:00<Brianetta>Reproduction of bugs is assisted immensely in games with this much state if you have a save which precedes a manifestation of the bug by enough time to get a debugger involved.
19:00<Brianetta>In this case, six game months.
19:00<Ammler>yep it happen
19:00<Ammler>made fast forward
19:00<Brianetta>yeah
19:00<Brianetta>it's a deterministic bug, which means it's fixable
19:01<Brianetta>See, now I don't want to carry on with that game
19:01<Brianetta>because the trains do explode with some regularity
19:01<Brianetta>which is bad for business
19:02<Ammler>:-)
19:02<Ammler>a nice little network
19:02<Brianetta>It's a test network
19:02<Brianetta>I wanted to push the PBS
19:02<Brianetta>This was a testing attempt from the start
19:03<Brianetta>Few of the busy bits are similar
19:03<Brianetta>Every station has its differences
19:03<Brianetta>There are "reasonable" diversionary routes throughout
19:04<Brianetta>I did get some deadlocking at one point, but that was remedied
19:04<Brianetta>I was trying for as few one-way tracks as possible.
19:04<Brianetta>Basically, I was picturing the "LOOK BOTH WAYS" signs we have on NR property
19:05<Ammler>signals aren't that optimal
19:05<Ammler>did you use pbs everywhere?
19:05<Brianetta>Of course they aren't, and yes I did
19:06<Brianetta>"Optimal" means "like every other bugger does it," and implies "all the bugs here were fixed"
19:07<Ammler>I could make you a better save
19:07-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad51a44.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:07<Ammler>it happens on jan 5.
19:07<Brianetta>Better in which respect?
19:08<Brianetta>Yes, I said it does
19:08<Ammler>every time, if I fast forward.
19:08<Brianetta>Yes
19:08<Brianetta>I wanted to give the dev the full 6 months
19:08<Brianetta>The bug could be caused by something that happens earlier
19:08<Brianetta>This way, more information is provided
19:12-!-fjb_ [~frank@p5485FD60.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
19:12<Ammler>it happens also with older yapps
19:13<Brianetta>yeah; I made no assumption that this was a new bug. just newly found.
19:13<Ammler>of course
19:14<Ammler>just don't see what is that special on your testcase
19:14<Brianetta>It reproduced it.
19:14<Brianetta>That's basically it.
19:14<Brianetta>It can go for years without having a problem
19:14<Brianetta>there were a couple of near misses
19:16<De_Ghost>really?
19:16<De_Ghost>make me a jpg :D
19:16-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FFA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:16<Brianetta>of a near miss?
19:16<De_Ghost>of the bug
19:16<Brianetta>Basically, one train enters a platform as the other leaves
19:16<De_Ghost>or the track section involving it
19:16<Brianetta>so you get two trains in the station
19:17<Brianetta>Hang on, let me upload the screenies
19:18<Ammler>Brianetta: the main problem is the train which is first in the station loses the reservation
19:18<Ammler>it should keep that until it has left the station
19:20<Ammler>my old yapp was already 8.1
19:20<Ammler>I try with 8.0
19:23<Wolf01>'night
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19:23<Brianetta>De_Ghost: http://ppcis.org/Drudingstone/
19:25<Brianetta>btw, the monitor I am playing on cost £500 (-:
19:25<De_Ghost>24 inch?
19:26<De_Ghost>my monitor cost me 200$ cad :D
19:26<Brianetta>visible, yes
19:26<De_Ghost>22" visible :)
19:26<Brianetta>It's rotatable, has five inputs, picture in picture
19:26<De_Ghost>o nice
19:26<Brianetta>and a built in USB hub / card reader
19:26<De_Ghost>don't need usb :D
19:26<De_Ghost>my case have 10 of em
19:26<De_Ghost>lol
19:27<De_Ghost>rotable is nice tho
19:27<De_Ghost>i wanna build a wall mount for mine so i can rotate it too :)
19:27<De_Ghost>drunning stone?
19:28<De_Ghost>hmmm
19:28<Brianetta>http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/review/2006/06/15/Dell-Ultrasharp-2407WFP-24in-Widescreen/p1
19:28<Brianetta>That's the monitor (:
19:29<Brianetta>Privce has come down a bit; we've had it a while now
19:30<De_Ghost>that's hot
19:30<De_Ghost>i think 22" are the best bang for bucks
19:30<De_Ghost>woah
19:30<De_Ghost>that's 1k cad for that mon
19:30<De_Ghost>i think
19:31<Brianetta>Probably. Not having a TV set, we needed something to plug the PS/2 and the DVD player ionto
19:31<De_Ghost>yea it is
19:31<De_Ghost>holy
19:31<Ammler>Brianetta: are you able to rebuild it?
19:31<De_Ghost>i rather get 4 22" monitor lol
19:31<De_Ghost>and i still have 200$ left
19:31<Brianetta>Ammler: From memory? No.
19:31<De_Ghost>and get another gfx card
19:32<De_Ghost>and i have 44" screen XD
19:32-!-fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
19:33<Brianetta>http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/3041-5112.jpg
19:33<Brianetta>but look at the plugholes
19:33<De_Ghost>lol
19:33<De_Ghost>the tv plug is nice tho
19:33-!-fjb_ is now known as fjb
19:33<Brianetta>oh yeah
19:33<De_Ghost>look at my plug holes :D
19:33<Brianetta>we don't have, or want, a TV license
19:34<De_Ghost>1 dvi 1 blue one and a power plug
19:34<De_Ghost>:)
19:34<De_Ghost>yea
19:34<De_Ghost>tv is boring
19:34<Brianetta>and 24" is nice for DVDs, and we have a lovefilm.com account
19:34<De_Ghost>o
19:35<De_Ghost>never heard
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19:35<De_Ghost>cool
19:35<Brianetta>Not much use in California
19:36<De_Ghost>or canada
19:36<De_Ghost>lol
19:36<Brianetta>or even Canada
19:36<Brianetta>Hey, you should have a .ca
19:36<Brianetta>not a .com
19:36<De_Ghost>nah
19:36<De_Ghost>why?
19:36<Brianetta>Actually, I just got changed from a .uk so I can't talk
19:36<De_Ghost>canada is like a state of usa
19:36<De_Ghost>except we have a cooler gov
19:36<De_Ghost>and we don't waste shitload of money doing useless things
19:37<Brianetta>and we share a monarch
19:37<De_Ghost>lol
19:37<De_Ghost>yea
19:37<De_Ghost>only a figure head tho
19:37<De_Ghost>my passport still say something about the queen her majesty soemthing
19:38<De_Ghost>and i can use ur embassy too if a canadian doesn't exist :D
19:38<De_Ghost>or if ur's is closer
19:38<Brianetta>Her Britannic Majest Requests and Requires the Bearer to be permitted to Pass without Let nor Hindrance, and to provide the Bearer with such Assistance as is Necessary
19:38<Brianetta>otr something like that
19:38<De_Ghost>yea
19:38<De_Ghost>same same
19:39<Brianetta>I could grab my passport for the exact wording, it's just over there
19:39*Brianetta points
19:39<De_Ghost>no leave it
19:39<De_Ghost>it's probably the same
19:39<De_Ghost>lol
19:39<De_Ghost>i'm going out later man
19:39<De_Ghost>but still shit 500
19:39<De_Ghost>pound for a mon
19:40<De_Ghost>you crazy
19:40<De_Ghost>:)
19:40<Brianetta>(:
19:40<Eddi|zuHause2>i have no idea what that sentence means
19:40<Brianetta>It's mostly my wife's
19:40<De_Ghost>lol
19:40<Brianetta>Eddi: Basically, let the bearer through, and help him if necessary, or piss off the Wueen
19:40<De_Ghost>she owns 70% of the mon?
19:40<Brianetta>er
19:40<Brianetta>Queen
19:41<De_Ghost>haha
19:41<De_Ghost>hun
19:41<Brianetta>De_Ghost: It was a present from me
19:41<De_Ghost>i need to watch movie!!
19:41<Brianetta>and it's on her box
19:41<De_Ghost>ahh
19:41<De_Ghost>lol
19:41<Brianetta>My monitors and PC are still packed (we moved three weeks ago)
19:42<Brianetta>I can't unpack them until the loft gets floorboards. They're buried in other crap, as is the space it's going
19:42<Brianetta>Our spare room, isn't
19:42<De_Ghost>lol
19:43<Ammler>Brianetta: the problem is train 10 from the other side, it "cleans" the reservation.
19:43<Eddi|zuHause2>i think i still have an unpacked moving box
19:43<Eddi|zuHause2>and we moved 10 years ago :p
19:43<Brianetta>Ammler: Great. Are you fixing it? (:
19:43<De_Ghost>http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=32418299lk1.jpg
19:43<De_Ghost>:D
19:43<Ammler>lol
19:44<De_Ghost>2 mons :d
19:44<Brianetta>Ugh, Windows
19:44*Brianetta has four virtual monitors on the sides of a cuboid
19:44<Brianetta>Search Youtube for Compiz
19:45<Brianetta>and you'll see what I'm using
19:45<De_Ghost>oh
19:46<De_Ghost>w/e
19:46<De_Ghost>lol
19:46<De_Ghost>same shit
19:46<De_Ghost>cuz games only work on windows
19:46<+glx>false
19:46*Brianetta points at OpenTTD
19:46<De_Ghost>errrr
19:47*De_Ghost points to crysis
19:47<+glx>DX games
19:47*De_Ghost points to bioshock
19:47<Brianetta>whatsis?
19:47<Brianetta>whatshock?
19:47<De_Ghost>wine emulation is horrid
19:47<Brianetta>Nethack, OpenTTD.
19:47<De_Ghost>well not horrid jsut a big penaty
19:47<+glx>crysis requires too much power anyway
19:47<Brianetta>Is there more?
19:48<De_Ghost>starcraft?
19:48<De_Ghost>lol
19:48<De_Ghost>oh i saw that interface
19:48<De_Ghost>Compiz
19:48<De_Ghost>it's alot cooler with touch screen :D
19:48<Brianetta>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC5uEe5OzNQ
19:48<Brianetta>That's Windows Aero vs Compiz
19:49<De_Ghost>pfft forget aero
19:49<Brianetta>I almost did
19:49<+glx>aero is just a ressource eater
19:49<Brianetta>I've been using Compiz for a few years now
19:49<De_Ghost>i would use 98 if it had dx 9
19:49<De_Ghost>and support
19:50<De_Ghost>anyywas
19:50<De_Ghost>bbl
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19:54<Eddi|zuHause2>Brianetta: http://german-bash.org/action/show/id/195856
20:01<Brianetta>That's rather sad (:
20:01<Brianetta>Schade
20:05<Brianetta>Donner und Blitzen, hier und jetzt
20:06<Brianetta>I wondered what the flashes were, until I heard the thunder
20:06<Eddi|zuHause2>don't let ln hear you :p
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20:17<TiberiusTeng>just finished ... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37203&p=710074#p710074
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21:31<ccfreak2k>What terrible luck.
21:31<ccfreak2k>My main monitor just died.
21:32<SmatZ>my hard disk died 3 days ago
21:32<SmatZ>luck, too :-x
21:32<ccfreak2k>Except my monitor is kind of hard to come by.
21:32<ccfreak2k>http://www.amazon.com/NEC-MultiSync-FP1350X-Totally-Monitor/dp/B000056SMP
21:33<SmatZ>nice, I like flat big CRTs :)
21:33<ccfreak2k>And it did 1600x1200 at 85Hz. It's a very nice monitor.
21:33<ccfreak2k>I'm gonna take it apart probably tomorrow to see if I can diagnose the problem.
21:33<Eddi|zuHause3>in my statistics, monitors die a lot faster than hard drives
21:33<SmatZ>http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SyncMaster-1100DF-Monitor-Black/dp/B0000B0SNW this one... but white
21:34<SmatZ>I do 1600x1200@85, too :)
21:34<ccfreak2k>That's my biggest requirement for monitors these days. They gotta do high resolutions at high refresh rates.
21:35<ccfreak2k>I can get a Dell M990 for $8 if I drive all the way down to east Sacramento.
21:35<ccfreak2k>It's so far~
21:35<SmatZ>hehe
21:35<SmatZ>mail it
21:35<ccfreak2k>Not really worth shipping.
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22:07<Lachie>1680x1050@60 ftw lol
22:08<Lachie>just to add my 2c 30 minutes later
22:10<Eddi|zuHause3>i second that ;)
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22:26<DJNekkid>hi yall
22:28<DJNekkid>just a slight Q ... M990 ... is that "just" a CRT monitor?
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 19 00:00:13 2008