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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-07-19

---Logopened Sat Jul 19 00:00:13 2008
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01:27<Celestar>morning
01:31<Celestar>has anyone had a detailed look at the paxdest thingy?
01:37<Lachie>I would
01:37<Lachie>but I've heard it's very unstable in newtwork games
01:37<Lachie>*network
01:38<Lachie>I played with the old one.
01:38<Lachie>which would have ben what... 3 4 years ago?
01:38<Lachie>*been
01:38<Lachie>haet teh SSH lags
01:42<Celestar>apparently it's slow as crap
01:43<Lachie>anyway, gonna go go some charity work :D
01:43<Lachie>bbl
01:43<Lachie>*do
01:47<Celestar>WTF?
01:49<Celestar>http://www.fvfischer.de/arkprob.png
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01:58<@peter1138>Wow, bloated...
01:58<Celestar>peter1138: yeah, that's our source code :D
01:58<Celestar>31TB of readme :P
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02:02<Celestar>peter1138: did you have a look at the paxdest thingy by chance?
02:06<@peter1138>Possibly a long time ago.
02:06<@peter1138>IIRC it wasn't very good.
02:08<Celestar>which part about it was "not good?"
02:09<Celestar>I mean apart from the fact that it runs a loop of all cargo packets every single day ...
02:22*Celestar tries enabling gcc's loop vectorization
02:25<Celestar>hm ... it manages to optimize the 32bpp blitter
02:39<@peter1138>Oh?
02:40<Celestar>well "note: vectorization may not be profitable"
02:40<blathijs>Hmm, should be fun to try to compile openttd with LLVM. See what it gives :-)
02:40<Celestar>LLVM?
02:41<blathijs>Low Level Virtual Machine, essentially a compiler framework
02:41<Celestar>I see
02:41<Celestar>I could try to run the icc/pgcc over the code and see what it does
02:41<blathijs>which can use gcc to compile C++ to the LLVM Internal Representation and then run optimizations and codegeneration over the generated IR
02:42<blathijs>But it has a number of very good optimizations
02:44<Celestar>I see
02:45<hylje>basically JIT
02:46*Celestar wonders when we will ever see a work paxdest :P
02:51<TiberiusTeng>just try implement it or write some 'feature specifications' ? :P
02:51<TiberiusTeng>IMO it's a huge topic which can't properly implemented with comprehensive planning ...
02:53<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: I quite agree
02:53<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: are you the one who wrote the opengl blitter?
02:53<TiberiusTeng>yes
02:54<Celestar>I'm just about to try it :D
02:54<Celestar>or let's say: I'm considering it :P
02:55<blathijs>is paxdest a misspelling of passenger destinations?
02:55<Celestar>blathijs: yes (=
02:56<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: does it work on linux anyway? I haven't looked at it yet
02:57<TiberiusTeng>I think it does, as ccfreak2k wrote a SDL driver for it
02:57<Celestar>well make doesn't like it
02:57<Celestar>I'll check with it later
02:57<TiberiusTeng>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax#Common_meaning_these_days
02:58<TiberiusTeng>oops :Q hope you can provide some bugreport ...
02:58<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: I'm by far no make specialist
02:58<Celestar>and all output it currently gives is "Error 2" :S
02:58<TiberiusTeng>just for your information, it won't magically uses less CPU power :P
02:59<TiberiusTeng>did you ./configure --with-sdlgl ?
02:59<Celestar>yeah
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02:59<TiberiusTeng>mind copy/pasting the error message to http://paste.openttd.org ?
02:59<Celestar>blathijs: "pax" is common usage for "passenger(s)"
03:00<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: if I got an error message other than "[all] Error 2" it would be helpful.
03:00<Celestar>but in this case
03:00<TiberiusTeng>ouch ...
03:00<blathijs>Celestar: Yeah, I just read it. Never heard it before :-)
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03:02<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: well.
03:03<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: -d gives *some* output
03:03<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: apparently I'm missing "GLee"
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03:09<Celestar>meh the extraction failed
03:09<Celestar>/home/vici/openttd/trunk/src/blitter/opengl.cpp:44: error: ‘va_start’ was not declared in this scope
03:10<Celestar>/home/vici/openttd/trunk/src/blitter/opengl.cpp:52: error: ‘va_end’ was not declared in this scope
03:10<blathijs>Sounds like a missing include?
03:10<Celestar>yeah
03:10<Celestar>stdarg.h for that matter
03:10<blathijs>ah, yes :-)
03:11<TiberiusTeng>great. I wonder how it compiled on Linux before ;)
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03:12<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: the newer gccs are more ... aggressive when it comes to includes
03:12<Celestar>dunno what changed, but something did from 4.2 to 4.3
03:12<TiberiusTeng>what version are you using then? something like 4.3.0 ?
03:12<TiberiusTeng>wow. bingo. :D
03:12<Celestar>had that problem with other projects too
03:12<Celestar>4.3
03:13<Celestar>glee spits out a nice number of warnings
03:14<Celestar>OpenGL is most likely not initialized. Make sure you used an OpenGL-compatible video driver weehaa
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03:15<TiberiusTeng>run ./openttd -v sdlgl -b opengl
03:16<Celestar>yeah that works...
03:16<Celestar>kind of :D
03:17<Celestar>apart from the fact that I get about 2 frames per second on the title screen
03:19<Celestar>dbg: [GL] ATI_draw_buffers: NOT SUPPORTED (palette animation disabled)
03:19<Celestar>dbg: [GL] EXT_framebuffer_object: NOT SUPPORTED (palette animation disabled)
03:19<Celestar>and I have purple fonts (=
03:23<Celestar>I gotta head out a little
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03:34<TiberiusTeng>Celestar, you'd better stick with original blitters since your card's too old for this :P
03:35<blathijs>TiberiusTeng: Are you using such fancy OpenGL features, then?
03:36<TiberiusTeng>blathijs, I used pixel shaders to do palette lookup ...
03:36<blathijs>So you can still do palette animations?
03:36<TiberiusTeng>and drawbuffer/FBO is used to do palette animation, yes
03:37<blathijs>So we're using state-of-the-art graphics techniques to emulate a dirty old trick? :-p
03:37<TiberiusTeng>render indexed color to FBO -> use FBO as a texture to render to screen
03:37<TiberiusTeng>exactly. :P
03:39<TiberiusTeng>some cards once supported 8bpp indexed color with palette, but none of state-of-the-art cards do ...
03:40<TiberiusTeng>I don't want to do color-lookup on CPU, so I don't have a choice but use pixel shaders ...
03:42<TiberiusTeng>but I encountered some performance issues and still haven't found a solution now :(
03:43<TiberiusTeng>one of my cores seems always busy-looping to wait GPU finishes its work
03:44<blathijs>That's pretty useless
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04:13<Wolf01>hello
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04:33<rortom>morning
04:34<SpComb>almost noon
04:34<rortom>10am for me ;)
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04:41<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: too old?
04:41<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: how old is "too old?"?
04:42<Lachie>damnit
04:42<TiberiusTeng>IMO about 2 years ... what's the model you're using ?
04:42<Lachie>left ff on in the scenario editor for too long
04:42<Lachie>it's like... massive forest.
04:42<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: RV350 (FireGL T2)
04:42*Lachie will have to remember in future that 3 hours is a little too long.
04:42<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: equivalent to a Radeon 9700, just "better" :)
04:44<Celestar>maybe I should switch drivers ...
04:45<TiberiusTeng>hmm ... no. but it's still strange
04:45<TiberiusTeng>although you won't get palette animation, you shouldn't get pink text ...
04:46<TiberiusTeng>but don't hold your breath anyway :p
04:46<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: I'm using X.org's open source OpenGL driver. I'll swtich to AMD's own crapdriver for a test
04:50<Celestar>WTH is wrong with driverguys these days? ATI'S graphics driver is 50MB, yesterday I downloaded HP's printer driver (90MB total)
04:52<@Rubidium>ransomware?
04:53<@Rubidium>and ofcourse all the crapware that's delivered with the driver
04:53<Celestar>in linux? I don't find that crapware :P
04:54<@Rubidium>then I've got no idea
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04:54<@Rubidium>maybe horribly obfuscated drivers because they are "scared"?
04:54<rortom>mh linux drivers are even worse
04:54<rortom>like nvidia
04:55<rortom>as they include binaries for different X versions and platforms
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04:56<@Rubidium>but for a printer driver?
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04:57<Celestar>Rubidium: dunno maybe it includes some software I haven't found yet :P
04:58<Celestar>then again, that printer driver supports basically every PCL or PS printer by HP, so lots of definition files
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05:10<CelestarT42p>heh: note to self: running the opengl blitter with software renderer is pointless :P
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05:12<CelestarT42p>ok TiberiusTeng I have some good news and some bad news
05:13<CelestarT42p>which part would you like first :D
05:14<TiberiusTeng>bad news is good news while debugging :D
05:15<CelestarT42p>good news: it works as intended with ATI's own driver
05:15<CelestarT42p>bad news: CPU usage in title screen is increased by a factor of 80 compared to the default blitter
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05:16<Yorick>boo!
05:16<TiberiusTeng>ouch ...
05:16*CelestarT42p gets scared and accidently sticks a claymore into Yorick
05:17<TiberiusTeng>so the opengl blitter sucks big time :D
05:17<CelestarT42p>TiberiusTeng: dunno what part it is, just recompiling with profiling
05:17<hylje>too much stuff in software
05:17<hylje>batch rendering failure
05:18<Yorick>hello rortom
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05:19<TiberiusTeng>it would be a great help if it's possible to isolate which OpenGL calls takes most time
05:19<Yorick>you were the openttdserver.de guy, right?
05:19<CelestarT42p>TiberiusTeng: I can give it a try
05:19<TiberiusTeng>which is almost impossible under Windows ... at least I didn't find a way.
05:19<TiberiusTeng>I suspect it's all concentrated on texture copy stuff ...
05:20<TiberiusTeng>the 80% cpu usage is most likely busy-looping waiting the card, or converting texture format ...
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05:20<CelestarT42p>WTH
05:20<CelestarT42p>most use is CallVehicleTicks() ?!
05:21<Yorick>it redraws the vehicles...I think
05:21<hylje>curious
05:21<hylje>does it correlate with fps?
05:22<TiberiusTeng>maybe it didn't take the driver into account ...
05:22<CelestarT42p>I'm trying to callgrind it
05:23<CelestarT42p>...
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05:23<CelestarT42p>wee got a title screen
05:23<hylje>i suspect it's a bit slow?
05:23<CelestarT42p>in callgrind?! sure
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05:25<CelestarT42p>fark. forgot the debugging symbols
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05:27*CelestarT42p updates from kde 4.0.98 to 4.0.99
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05:30<CelestarT42p>TiberiusTeng: it's possibly to find on linux. callgrind tells you how much time you spend in every line of your source code
05:35<CelestarT42p>TiberiusTeng: hm .. from a first quick glance, there's nothing that seems horribly out-of-line
05:36<TiberiusTeng>hmm
05:37<TiberiusTeng>perhaps it didn't take opengl library/driver into account ...
05:37<TiberiusTeng>that's what I faced under Windows :(
05:37<TiberiusTeng>it looks awfully pretty on profiling, only leaving nvoglnt.dll sucking up another core
05:39<CelestarT42p>heh
05:39<CelestarT42p>who's good with kcachegrind here? :P
05:40<TiberiusTeng>the pretty NVPerfHUD is only for DirectX programs ...
05:40<CelestarT42p>hm ... it's the openttd process that eats the CPU, not the X server
05:42<CelestarT42p>TiberiusTeng: I'll check that a bit more later
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05:44<TiberiusTeng>thanks :)
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06:04<fmauNeko>hello :)
06:10<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13734 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Fix: NewGRF rail continuation would always mark a tunnel on the same axis as connected, even when the tunnel faces the wrong direction.
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06:54<ccfreak2k>Celestar, the sdlgl driver does work in Linux.
06:55<ccfreak2k>It also works in Windows, although not as well.
06:55<ccfreak2k>But it definitely was a performance improvement on my Slackware box.
06:55<ccfreak2k>Also, I already ran callgrind on a few different configurations. sdlgl was an improvement across the board.
06:55<Brianetta>What I want to see:
06:55<Brianetta>[SRC] Compiling cargopacket.cpp
06:55<Brianetta>[SRC] Compiling cargotype.cpp
06:55<Brianetta>[SRC] Compiling cargocult.cpp
07:02<Lachie>god damnit
07:02<Lachie>I broke firefox again
07:09<Lachie>I appear to have completely broken my computer
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07:10<Brianetta>I can't get yapp to compile
07:10<Lachie>what?!
07:11<Lachie>my home folder is gone :o
07:11*Lachie restars
07:11<Lachie>restarts even
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07:14-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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07:23<Eddi|zuHause3>Brianetta: applied the patch to a working copy where you previously applied a yapp patch and reverted it?
07:23<Eddi|zuHause3>that won't revert new files
07:23<Eddi|zuHause3>so you have to manually delete them
07:23<Brianetta>Eddi: Apparently so
07:23<Brianetta>Rubidium posted as much
07:24<Brianetta>and it's compiled (:
07:24<Brianetta>thanks
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07:25<Eddi|zuHause3>you can easily find out new files by grepping the .diff for "Revision 0"
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07:25*Brianetta nods
07:26<Eddi|zuHause3>except for yapp, wich is not an svn diff
07:27<Eddi|zuHause3>there you have to search for /dev/null
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07:27<Brianetta>well, svn status | egrep (\.cpp|\.h)
07:28<Brianetta>that'll show you all changed c++ files, and it's easy to spot the new ones
07:28<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, but that might include new files from other patches ;)
07:28<@Rubidium>svn st src|grep '?'|xargs rm
07:28<Brianetta>In my case, just one patch at a time
07:28<Brianetta>Rubidium: Even better (:
07:28<Eddi|zuHause3>ok, we agree that there are always multiple ways to do something [as long as there is any way at all]
07:30<Eddi|zuHause3>hm...
07:30<Eddi|zuHause3>C src/elrail.cpp
07:30<Eddi|zuHause3>i think i should tell SVN that i resolved that ;)
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07:34<Yorick>remove the .mine files
07:35<Eddi|zuHause3>Yorick: what do you think that would do?
07:35<Eddi|zuHause3>[besides there aren't any]
07:35<Yorick>tell svn you resolved the conflict
07:35<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think so :p
07:36<Eddi|zuHause3>you tell svn that you resolved src/elrail.cpp conflict by saying "svn resolved src/elrail.cpp"
07:36<Eddi|zuHause3>why would you do anything else?
07:38<Yorick>also possible :)
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07:43<KingJ>Whats the best way to "grow" a town? I've got the patch settings set on maximin, anything I need to do apart from a single well served station?
07:43<Eddi|zuHause3>5 well served stations
07:43<DaleStan>Four more of same.
07:44<KingJ>Okay, thanks
07:46<Yexo>note that "well serviced" means at least one vehicle every 20 days, so 4 bus stops with a few busses should do fine
07:46<Eddi|zuHause3><Rubidium> svn st src|grep '?'|xargs rm <-- you might want to add an "awk '{ print $2 }'" in case you want to preserve any 1-letter-name files :p
07:47<KingJ>Not based on cargo rating then?
07:48<Yexo>for town growth: no, not based on cargo rating
07:48<DaleStan>Hard to have a bad rating with a vehicle every 20 days, but no, it's not.
07:48<Eddi|zuHause3>no, just vehicle...
07:49<Yexo>DaleStan: it's not that hard if the station gets a lot of cargo, the rating will drop because of waiting cargo
07:49<KingJ>Yeah, couple of busses in the centre of the city
07:49<KingJ>Is there anything on the wiki listing what makes up the cargo performance rating? I couldn't find anything
07:50<Yexo>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_Mechanics#Station_rating
07:50<Yexo>station rating = cargo performance rating
07:50<KingJ>Ah, thanks
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08:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13735 /branches/0.6/ (12 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
08:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
08:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: NewGRF rail continuation would always mark a tunnel on the same axis as connected, even when the tunnel faces the wrong direction (r13734)
08:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Assumption that non-north tiles of a house do not have the 1x1 building
08:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: bit set was flawed with some NewGRFs. This caused the amount of houses to
08:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: differ, which causes the town radii to differ, which causes desyncs when towns
08:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: are expanded (r13729)
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08:31<Lachie>yew!
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08:39<Celestar>TiberiusTeng: ccfreak2k what hardware are you running the stuff on?
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09:56<fjb>Hello
09:56<Yorick>hello
09:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13736 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_controller.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r13656): regression failing because the opcode counter wasn't properly reset.
10:00<fjb>Is the noai branch already playable?
10:00<+glx>it always was
10:00<Yexo>it's very playable :)
10:00<Yexo>the one big missing thing is still rail support
10:01<fjb>Hm, is it also patchable with yapp?
10:01<@Rubidium>actually... it's getting more unplayable over time
10:01<@Rubidium>because the AIs are getting better and better
10:01<Yexo>fjb: yes, but you may have to merge some small pieces by hand
10:01<fjb>Merging isn't a problem, usually.
10:01<fjb>Better ai sounds good.
10:01<Yexo><Rubidium> because the AIs are getting better and better <- if that is your definition of unplayable I'd say it's already unplayable with road vehicles only
10:03<fjb>The new ai (raod vehicles only) in trunk doesn't like the new eGRTV grf. It dumps core as soon as the ai buys the first road vehicle.
10:03<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13737 /branches/noai/ (132 files in 11 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r13683:13734.
10:04<+glx>fjb: where is the bug report about it?
10:04<Yorick>fjb: the new ai is experimental
10:04<+glx>but it shouldn't crash openttd
10:04<Yorick>all bug reports should go to truebrain
10:04<+glx>no the text has changed some time ago
10:04<fjb>Don't have to say anything beside that it crashes yet.
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10:05<fjb>My os tells me something about a floating point error when it dumps core. Very starnge.
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10:06<fjb>I will be away for about half an hour. I well see if I can find more about it then.
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10:10<Yexo>fjb: strange, admiralai doesn't like the eGRTV set either, although it works fine with the LV grf
10:12<Yexo>fjb: are you sure it's a bug in the AI? If I built an "ATP MGA Artic. Hopper Truck" it behaves strange too
10:13<Yexo>it keeps switches between two orders in an infinite loop
10:13<Yexo>that is without any AI
10:13<ccfreak2k>Celestar, I ran my tests on an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ box with an AGP 8x ATi Radeon X850 XT PE.
10:13<ccfreak2k>Using the fglrx driver.
10:14<Yexo>so I suspect a bug in either eGRTV or in openttd newgrf handling, but not in the AI
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10:53<Eddi|zuHause2>*note* when you try to build "multi-tile" depots, click the right depot to build the train in :p
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10:59<Yorick>the python does not like me :(
11:00<Lachie>python doesn't like me either.
11:00<Lachie>or perl or ruby for that matter
11:00<Lachie>or C/++/#
11:00<Lachie>infact, the only thing reminiscent of a coding language that does seem to get along with me is NFO
11:01<Yorick>I'm trying to unpack the payload of a PACKET_SERVER_ERROR_QUIT packet...
11:01<Yorick>documentation says function should always return array...and it doesn't
11:02<Lachie>I am hilariously cold
11:02<Lachie>perhaps another jumper is in order.
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11:06<Yorick>oh, I should blame documentation for returning the result of another function if certain arguments are given...which causes my array not to be multidimentional anymore
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11:16<Celestar>ccfreak2k: weird, the X850 shouldn't be too different from a 9700
11:17<ccfreak2k>The Radeon 9700 has an R350 or something like that.
11:17<ccfreak2k>This one is an R450.
11:17<ccfreak2k>Unless your 9700 is an XT, they're worlds different.
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11:20<fjb>Yexo: The crash doesn't happen with the old ai.
11:20<fjb>And the orders of road vehicles behave a bit strange sometimes, espacially depot orders.
11:20<Yexo>If I built an "ATP MGA Artic. Hopper Truck" it behaves strange too
11:20<Yexo><Yexo> it keeps switches between two orders in an infinite loop
11:20<Yexo><Yexo> that is without any AI <- can you confirm this?
11:21<Lachie>gotta love 48% wireless strength.
11:21<fjb>Yexo: I have to try it.
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11:22<Nioe>oooh its a ben
11:22<ln>the small one
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11:22<fjb>We are playing with bleeding edge stuff here. But it is fun.
11:23<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: Good point. Building in the wron depot already happened to me.
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11:39<Yexo><fjb> Yexo: I have to try it. <- did you test it?
11:39-!-nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:40<fjb>Yexo: Not yet. I'm patching noai with YAPP at the moment.
11:40<Yexo>ok :)
11:52<fjb>I hope it will compile now.
11:53<fjb>What will the people who get outperformed by the old ai do when the noai branch gets merged to trunk?
11:53<Yorick>disable it
11:54<fjb>Hm, ggod point.
11:54<fjb>good
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11:55<planetmaker>hello
11:56<Yorick>hello
11:57<Gekz>lol
11:57<Gekz>old ai sucks
11:57<Gekz>it doesnt outperform me
11:57<Gekz>it just destroys the landscape
12:01<fjb>Gekz: There are sometimes complaints at the forum about the old ai outperforming a player.
12:02<fjb>Ok, the old ai outperformed me in my first game. I took a look into the manual then to find out what all the buttons in the game are for...
12:02<SmatZ>yeah there are often angry players complaining that old AI is too hard
12:04<SmatZ>maybe you should post there a post that AI is too weak
12:05<SmatZ>people will admire you
12:05<fjb>A look into the manual should help them. It never outperformed me after I knew what to do inthe game. The first game was merely clicking around out of curiousity.
12:05<fjb>:-)
12:05<SmatZ>when I first played TTO, I thought "competitors" are my friends helping my company
12:06<fjb>Sometimes they do... At least you cal use their roads.
12:06<fjb>But I hate it when human players are putting an one way sign at any road tile.
12:10<Eddi|zuHause2><fjb> What will the people who get outperformed by the old ai do when the noai branch gets merged to trunk? <- there are difficulty settings, an AI should respect those
12:11<fjb>My YAPP patched noai doesn't compile... make stops with nothing to do for "all" after compiling town_gui.cpp
12:11<Yexo>there are difficulty settings, an AI should respect those <- that is worked on right now, but there will be settings per AI, not global settings
12:11<Yorick>fjb: try removing your .d and .o files
12:12<Yexo>fjb: do a make clean of even make mrproper && ./configure
12:12<fjb>That was the first run of configure and make after a svn checkout.
12:13<Yexo>hmm, strange
12:13<Yexo>no idea one
12:13<Yexo>*then
12:14<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: try without patch first :p
12:14<Yorick>I think your source.list is corrupted
12:14<fjb>Maybe the patch didn't like the different source.list.
12:14<frosch123>fjb: maybe source.list conflicted
12:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13738 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/ai_squirrel.cpp fileio.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix (r13737): assert when a tar file doesn't contain a dir
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12:16<fjb>source.list is ok.
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12:17<fjb>There were two rejected files. But they compiled ok after i resolved the conflicts manually.
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12:18<Yorick>are you sure there was nothing with source list after town_gui.cpp?
12:20<fjb>frosch123: What is make trying to say me: Die Datei »/home/frank/devel/OpenTTD-r13737noaiyapp/src/train_cmd.cpp« wird "gestutzt" (der Abhängigkeitsgraph).
12:21<+glx>file created in the future?
12:21<fjb>Oh, ok I found it.
12:22<fjb>Yes, user error.... :-)
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12:22<frosch123>very nice translation, you can translate it back to english word by word, and then it makes sense :p
12:23<+glx>it usually happen to me when I extract a tar file
12:24<fjb>Never delete the wrong file...
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12:56<Sacro>yep
13:14<fjb>It compiled. .-)
13:15<fjb>What do i have to do now? Download some ais from the forum and put the tar archives ito the ai folder?
13:20<Yexo>yep
13:20<Yexo>I suggest to start with convoy / admiralai / wrightai
13:22<fjb>Ok, I already fond that three.
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13:22<Yexo>You can start an ai with the console command start_ai ai_name, if not they will be started randomly (depend on your difficulty settings of course)
13:23<fjb>Randomly sounds interesting.
13:24<Yorick>or just start_ai
13:28<Yorick>I wonder how openttd does the leave thing...
13:28<Yexo>what leave thing?
13:28<Yorick>sending the leaving packet -> quitting the game
13:28<Yorick>quitting the game instantly results in a connection lost
13:29<Yorick>quitting the game after you see your own quit message gives you a recv failed with 10024
13:29<fjb>Do the noai ias only work with the original vehicles?
13:30<Yorick>depends
13:30<Yorick>some of them do
13:30<Yorick>some of them use EngineLists
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13:31<Yexo>most of them work with ok with new vehicles
13:31<Yexo>there are a few that don't refit a vehicle when needed
13:32<Yexo>although eGRTV does behave strange, but it does that also when I built a vehicle manually
13:32<fjb>Hm, they don't build anything.
13:32<Yexo>watch the ai debut panel (under the question mark)
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13:33<fjb>Oh, one build something.
13:34<Yexo>it depends on the difficulty setting opponent_building_speed or so how fast they build
13:34<hylje>openttd r13734 on Ubuntu, built from checkout, viewport doesn't expand properly when maximise button is pressed
13:35<hylje>(stretching the window works fine)
13:35<SmatZ>hylje: I miss the Maximise window in Gentoo/KDE :-P
13:35<SmatZ>*Maximise button
13:35<SmatZ>for OTTD
13:36<SmatZ>nah now it is back
13:36<SmatZ>strange
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13:41<hylje>i can haul tourists in tanker wagons
13:42<Yexo>the tourists won't like that :p
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13:43<fjb>Tourists like almost anything they have to pay for.
13:43<frosch123>like diving
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13:55<fjb>terminate called after throwing an instance of 'OTTDThreadExitSignal'
13:56<Yexo>fjb: You've hit one of the threading bugs in NoAI
13:56<Yexo>what did you do to get that message?
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13:57<fjb>Just start some ais and then pressed the fast forward button. After some time that happens.
13:58<Yexo>that's new
13:58<Yexo>it's known that NoAI can crash upon exiting an AI (so closing a game, game exit etc.)
14:00<fjb>Maybe that was the cause. Most ais didn't build anything and reveived financial warnings. Maybe one got closed.
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14:00<Yexo>ah, that could be the case
14:00<Yexo>what AIs did you use?
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14:01<fjb>The ais you told me to try, wright, admiral and convoy.
14:02<Yexo>I find it strange those get in financial trouble, but it could happen of course
14:03<Yorick>have you set the loan amount?
14:04<fjb>Hm, don't think so. Where is that set? Game difficulty?
14:04<Yexo>yep, difficulty
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14:07<fjb>100000£
14:09<Yexo>that's not enough for wrigthai
14:09<Yexo>not sure about convoy, but admiralai should be ok
14:10<fjb>How much does it need?
14:10<Yexo>more than 100.000, 150.000 should be enough ;)
14:10<fjb>Admiral was the only one building something.
14:10<Yexo>but the more the better
14:12<nicfer>what would be better, industries like cities or cities like industries?
14:13<Yexo>I don't think either option is any good, but why do you ask?
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14:14<Yexo>fjb: oh, and wrightai doesn't terraform, so if you're playing on a mountanious map it might quit because it couldn't find a place for it's first airport
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14:15<fjb>Oh, I'm playing in hills, but with very smoot slopes.
14:17<fjb>next try with 200000£ initian loan.
14:18<nicfer>I think that making industries like houses will allow them to be more flexible
14:18<Yexo>in what way will they be more flexible?
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14:19<nicfer>for example, you can destroy a single tile without destroying the whole industry
14:20<Yorick>houses get destroyed if you destroy one tile of them...
14:20<Yexo>you can't destroy industries at all right now, and that's fine by me
14:21<Yexo>and that's like saying you want to destroy the runways of an airport but keep the airport intact: useless
14:21<hylje>nicfer: you mean industries like cities
14:22<hylje>if industry likes one enough, one can get away with moving (demolishing) its modules (houses) out of way
14:23<nicfer>the industry will only reduce it's production
14:24<nicfer>also, industries aren't built in the middle of nothing
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14:25<nicfer>they're near cities
14:25<hylje>placement is one thing
14:25<hylje>city-like behaviour another
14:29<Eddi|zuHause2>placement can be done with newgrf... PBI has requirements like "must be within 10 tiles of town with at least 100 population"
14:29<Eddi|zuHause2>meaning secondary industries are pretty much never in the middle of nowhere
14:29<Yorick>but it is wrong
14:30<Vikthor>gah, I made bug in bug-report :(
14:30<Yorick>it would better be townpop/10 tiles of town with at least 100 population
14:30<Eddi|zuHause2>i got into that kind of trouble when i wanted to found a food processing plant near my cargo station
14:30<Eddi|zuHause2>it was too far from the town itself
14:30<frosch123>and if that is not enough, ECS has requirements like "must be within 10 tiles of town with at least 100 population, and within 3 tiles of water and not near any industry of the same type"
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14:31<Yorick>some require sloped land, within 3 tiles of desert
14:31<Yorick>nowhere near a town with at least 0 population
14:32<fjb>Wrightai gives up after building the first route failed.. :-(
14:33<fjb>And when it goes bankrupt the game crashes.
14:33<Yorick>fjb: it gives up...
14:33<Eddi|zuHause2><Yorick> it would better be townpop/10 tiles of town with at least 100 population <- i think what it really does is "count population within a 10 tile radius"
14:33<Yexo>fjb: then either use a flatter map or don't use wrightai
14:34-!-curson [~curzon@p1087-ipbf214funabasi.chiba.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #openttd
14:34<Eddi|zuHause2>because i can build it quite far from the center of my 26k town, just around the cargo station there are no houses
14:34<Yexo>anpai is another plane ai that does approx as good as wrightai
14:34<fjb>How can I exclude wrightai?
14:34<Yexo>remove the dir from bin/ai
14:34<fjb>Ok, thought there would be a smarter way.
14:34<Yexo>or rename ai/wrightai/info.nut
14:35<Eddi|zuHause2>or start 8 other AIs ;)
14:35<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause2: 7 is enough, as you are a company yourself :)
14:35<fjb>Convoy also never builds anything.
14:35<Yexo>fjb: what does the ai debug panel say? (found under the question mark ingame)
14:35<Yorick>fjb: what kind of towns do you have
14:35<Eddi|zuHause2>i think if this weather goes on i am "within 3 tiles of water" soon :p
14:35<Yorick>same here
14:36<fjb>Debug information is gone with the crash. have to start a new game to tell you.
14:36<fjb>How do you mean what kind of towns?
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14:36<Yexo>fjb: what operating system do you use?
14:36<Yorick>near to eachother, big?
14:37-!-Yorick [~Y0R1CK@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: BRB]
14:37<fjb>Normal town density.
14:37<Yexo>should be fine
14:39<fjb>OS is FreeBSD. Compiler is gcc 3.4.6
14:45<nicfer>one question, can road NoAIs build one-way signs?
14:48<Yexo>they can't
14:48<Yexo>and they can't handle one-way signs build by the user either
14:48<Yexo>so don't build them or expect the AIs to fail
14:49<planetmaker>Yexo: you give me a brilliant idea :P
14:49<fjb>Wrightai says: Couldn't build the aircraft. I'm using av8.
14:49<Yexo>planetmaker: If you do, I'm going to patch the server to disallow one-way sign building :p
14:50<planetmaker>cheatahh ! ;)
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14:51<planetmaker>Yexo: how does it cope with rivers?
14:51<Yexo>no idea, you'll have to try that
14:51<Yexo>but it should be a problem, as it can cope with canals and see
14:52<Yexo>*not be a problem :)
14:52<planetmaker>:)
14:52<tom0004>one question, when did, Steel mills accept passengers ?
14:52<planetmaker>I wondered. Because I tried today in the SE to have town with a river inside: place river, then place town.
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14:53<planetmaker>For the town the river is an obstacle which cannot even be bridged :)
14:53<planetmaker>tom0004: since ever. TTO
14:53<Yexo>well, I'd consider that as a bug in trunk (or unimplemented feature)
14:53<planetmaker>I guess unimplemented. Rivers are too new :P
14:53<Yexo>planetmaker: I would guess a town doesn't bridge canals either
14:53<planetmaker>probably. Didn't try that
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14:54<planetmaker>hm... just assuming the SE generated rivers - should they be generated before or after towns?
14:55<Yexo>before, or towns might get flooded
14:55<Yorick>I think towns should be able to bridge them
14:55<planetmaker>come to think of it: no towns next to rivers, if after...
14:55<planetmaker>rivers don't flood... so far
14:55-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
14:56<planetmaker>and it's easy to ask whether a tile is a house or not.
14:56<Yexo>planetmaker: flooded as in, what do you do when you generate a river through a town?
14:56<planetmaker>Yexo: so far: I just don't do that as houses are a nono-area
14:57<Yexo>in that case you might get some strange rivers around towns
14:57<Yexo>so I still think it's better to do rivers before towns
14:57<planetmaker>yeah :) and yeah
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14:58<tom0004>oh well, i'll leave it then
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15:06<Tyler_Bishop>hey is any one here using the latest dev?
15:07<fjb>We are all using the devs. :-)
15:07<Yorick>latest dev?
15:07<Tyler_Bishop>hehe, is there a problem with the company list in multiplayer
15:07<SmatZ>I think frosch123 is the latest dev
15:07<Yorick>hehe
15:07<Tyler_Bishop>it selects them all when trying to select
15:07<Yorick>Rubidium: ^^
15:07<Tyler_Bishop>r137433
15:08<Tyler_Bishop>err
15:08<Tyler_Bishop>r13734
15:08<SmatZ>how?
15:08<Tyler_Bishop>create a multiplayer game
15:08<Tyler_Bishop>open ttd again
15:08<SmatZ>hmm yeah I see
15:08<Tyler_Bishop>connect make a new company
15:08<Tyler_Bishop>u cant select the companys :(
15:09<Tyler_Bishop>i like the new multiplayer window in this latest one
15:09<Tyler_Bishop>bugs
15:10<Tyler_Bishop>i like all the features of the later releases, wish there was a stable dev build lol
15:11<Tyler_Bishop>SmatZ: do you see what im talking about
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15:12<SmatZ>Tyler_Bishop: yeah
15:12<SmatZ>and all companies have the same name
15:12<Tyler_Bishop>yeA
15:12<Tyler_Bishop>any ideas on a quick fix?
15:12<SmatZ>no
15:12<Yorick>join serverip#company:serverport
15:12<Yorick>from console
15:13<Tyler_Bishop>:)
15:14<planetmaker>sounds like being introduced with making the players a pool a few revs ago...
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15:14<Tyler_Bishop>hehe
15:15<Tyler_Bishop>is it a known bug
15:16<Yorick>nope
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15:17<Yorick>planetmaker: and thát sounds like more-companies being included in trunk
15:17<+glx>Yorick: no
15:17<Yorick>:(
15:17<Vikthor>Tyler_Bishop: It depends, what you take as known, I reported that about a hour ago http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2149
15:18<Tyler_Bishop>:)
15:18<planetmaker>Yorick: not sure... reason was some bug for cleaning old companies... - but maybe
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15:18<SmatZ>planetmaker: indeed, introduced in r13731
15:18<planetmaker>:)
15:18<Tyler_Bishop>is there any where i can get a copy of r13730
15:18<+glx>Vikthor: status changed ;)
15:18<planetmaker>svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
15:19<planetmaker>svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk -r 13730
15:19<Yorick>./configure && make
15:19<Tyler_Bishop>if only i was on a linux machine :P
15:19<Yorick>no
15:19<SmatZ>or get older nightly :-P
15:19<Yorick>I'm doing that on windows
15:19<planetmaker>works on my Mac :P
15:19<SmatZ>hehe
15:19<Ammler>Tyler_Bishop: BOTTD
15:20<planetmaker>^
15:20<Tyler_Bishop>got it, turtoise :D
15:20<Ammler>Tyler_Bishop: BOTTD is better
15:21<Tyler_Bishop>hehe, i know how to use this haha
15:21<+glx>BOTTD comes with a full working dev env
15:21<Tyler_Bishop>whats that mean to me :p
15:21<Ammler>you have then a little gree unix with it (mingw)
15:21<+glx>the only problem is BOTTD itself doesn't work on vista
15:21<Tyler_Bishop>damn, now how to i compile this for windows
15:21<Ammler>glx: bottd or mingw?
15:22<+glx>botts
15:22<+glx>mingw works
15:22<Ammler>bottd is os, did nobody fix that yet?
15:23<Tyler_Bishop>i need visual studio installed to compile this correct?
15:23<+glx>Tyler_Bishop: no
15:23<Tyler_Bishop>:/
15:23<Tyler_Bishop>o
15:23<Tyler_Bishop>mingw
15:23<+glx>but visual studio works too
15:24<+glx>I use mingw, 2005 express and 2008 express
15:24<Tyler_Bishop>how about mingw 5.1.4
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15:24<+glx>you need mingw and msys
15:24<Yorick>glx: bottd does
15:25<+glx>bottd installs mingw and msys
15:26<Tyler_Bishop>ive never compiled a program before
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15:26<Tyler_Bishop>well, on windows
15:26<Zuu>Tyler_Bishop: Why not just use last working nightly or is there something special that have hapened between that and now?
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15:26<Tyler_Bishop>zuu, multiplayer is hammed
15:26<Zuu>Yea, that's why I sad last working and not just last.
15:26<Tyler_Bishop>is there a pre-compiled last working available?
15:27<Zuu>They stay on the server quite long.
15:27<Tyler_Bishop>eh?
15:27<Tyler_Bishop>link please sir
15:28<Yorick>nightly.openttd.org
15:28<Zuu>http://nightly.openttd.org/win32/
15:28<Tyler_Bishop>oh nice :D
15:28<Zuu>Way back from second may it seams.
15:29<Tyler_Bishop>april to lol
15:29<Tyler_Bishop>gona try r13718
15:29<Ammler>don't you want the detailed server infos?
15:29<Eoin>13734 works for me
15:30<Tyler_Bishop>multiplayer company list works?
15:30<Eoin>errr
15:30<Eoin>lemme see
15:30<Tyler_Bishop>make 2 companys
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15:31<Zuu>Dihedral Auto Nightly server uses 13734 it seams, but maybe you are going to host yourself?
15:31<Tyler_Bishop>13718 looks good to far
15:31-!-DJNekkid [~chatzilla@89.8.142.163] has joined #openttd
15:31<Tyler_Bishop>yeah, i host my own game with friends
15:31<DJNekkid>Forked: :)
15:32<Tyler_Bishop>yeah 13718 looks good :)
15:32<Eoin>BOTTD fails for me
15:32<Eoin>svn: Failed to add file 'trunk\svnup.sh': object of the same name already exists
15:32<Yorick>remove that file
15:33<Yorick>;)
15:33<Eoin>But i dont know where it is xD
15:33<+glx>you used it on a non svn dir?
15:33<Eoin>i just done it to desktop/ottd
15:33<Tyler_Bishop>damit creating a new vehicle in this version is broke :(
15:35<Yorick>what?
15:35<Tyler_Bishop>in 13718 creating a veh crashes it
15:35<Yorick>:o
15:36<planetmaker>o_O
15:37<Yorick>just try that join console command
15:37<Tyler_Bishop>yea that wrks
15:37<Tyler_Bishop>ysy
15:38<Tyler_Bishop>13706 is a winner
15:40<Forked>DJNekkid: heya... and I'm off again :)
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15:53<Tyler_Bishop>this game is addicting
15:54<fjb>noai crashes everytime an ai becomes bankrupt.
15:54<SmatZ>oh noes another crash :-/
15:55<Yexo>fjb: known bug
15:55<fjb>Is there a workaround?
15:55<Yexo>only use AIs that don't go bankrupt :)
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15:56<fjb>I try...
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16:08<Forked>mmm vacation .. have a great one, good people
16:09<SmatZ>you too, Forked
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16:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13739 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix (r13731): some variables would be erroneously zeroed, causing autoclean and company passwords not to work.
16:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13740 /trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp: -Fix (r13731): one could only join the first company.
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16:37<Mark>hello
16:37<Mark>i got a little problem; in the scenario editor i want to "fund many industries" but the "build" option is grayed out
16:37<Mark>anyone knows what to do with that?
16:37<Mark>or is it just not possible for some reason?
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16:48<Eddi|zuHause2>do you have a town?
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16:49<Mark>yes i do
16:50<Eddi|zuHause2>then i don't know...
16:50<Mark>i'll try with today's nightly
16:51<SmatZ>Mark: do you have set "Patches - Economy - Industries" to None ?
16:52<SmatZ>mmm it is not in Patches...
16:52<Mark>it's in difficulty
16:52<Mark>and yes, it's set to none
16:52<SmatZ>ha
16:52<SmatZ>:)
16:52<Mark>but i thought that wouldn't be a problem ;)
16:52<Mark>i'll try again
16:53<Mark>yep, that's it
16:53<Mark>thanks SmatZ
16:54<SmatZ>you are welcome :)
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17:17<HeadBeng0r>!password
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17:37<Eddi|zuHause2>wow... we didn't have that in quite a long time...
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17:50<ln>@seen Bjarni
17:50<@DorpsGek>ln: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 3 days, 1 hour, 42 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I didn't have any
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17:51<Sacro>he must have got lost while looking for them
17:54<ln>i hope they have some in denmark
17:55<Zuu>Is it just my ISP or is openttd.org down?
17:55<ln>your isp
17:55<ln>or your government
17:55<Zuu>thanks :)
17:55<Zuu>Hehe :p
17:55<yawn>yep, fine here
17:56<Zuu>Ah, that citience, he only play OpenTTD all the time. To dangerous, we must block him from openttd.org ;)
17:56<SmatZ>http://80.247.163.110/ Zuu does this work?
17:56<SmatZ>hehe
17:56<Zuu>SmatZ: Yep
17:56-!-gregor_ [~gregor@xdsl-87-78-35-108.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd
17:56<Zuu>But now openttd.org also work :)
17:56<SmatZ>:)
17:58<Zuu>And now openttd.org fail again but the IP works. I should probably force my router to use a better DNS than the one my ISP provides.
17:59<Zuu>Have been iusses with sites going down 5 minutes every now and then.
18:04<@orudge>hmm, well, the DNS change was a good few days ago now
18:04-!-Leif_ [~Zuu@c-363c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
18:04<@orudge>Wednesday, I think
18:04<@orudge>so you'd have hoped it would update by now
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18:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13741 /branches/noai/Makefile.in: [NoAI] -Fix: unused tag
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18:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13742 /branches/noai/config.lib: [NoAI] -Fix: fix most of the Squirrel problems by disabling the garbage collector .. go figure!
18:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13743 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: AI_Uninitialize asserted when Player-pool wasn't initialized .. bypass it
18:21-!-fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
18:22<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13744 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_info.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: smallest commit ever
18:23<Yexo>fjb: The latest svn version of NoAI should have fixed the crahsed you had when an AI goes bankrupt
18:23<Yexo>could you please confirm this?
18:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13745 /branches/noai/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp openttd.cpp): [NoAI] -Change: move '_settings_game = _settings_newgame;' to a small functions, so additions later on are easier, while keeping it simple to backport things to trunk
18:24<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%2026.%20Feb%201934.png <- enough trains now? :p
18:24<fjb>Yexo: It is not fixed in r13738
18:25<Yexo>fjb: I was talking about commit 13742 :)
18:25<fjb>Did r13743 fix it?
18:25<fjb>Ok, I will try that
18:25<Yexo>thx :)
18:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13746 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai.cpp ai_squirrel.cpp ai_squirrel.hpp): [NoAI] -Change: rename SelectAI to FindAI (makes more sense, even more later on)
18:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13747 /branches/noai/projects/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Fix (r13742): disable squirrel garbage collector for MSVC too
18:31<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13748 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai_info.cpp ai_info.hpp ai_squirrel.cpp): [NoAI] -Change: redirected some internals to allow extending of a few entries later on
18:32<Eddi|zuHause2>two farms, two coal mines and two forests near that city, and all local cargo trains gather at this station to transfer to long distance cargo trains
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18:47-!-fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
18:49-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g228011056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"]
18:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13749 /branches/noai/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Change: move AIController and AIInfo into the Player-struct
18:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13750 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Change: _ai_enabled was always true for its point of usage
18:58<ln>whose home-compiled OpenTTD has icon when ran from the build directory?
19:02<Yexo>mine has
19:03<ln>platform?
19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>some of mine have, others not
19:04<ln>mine is trying to open media/openttd.32.bmp, but that fails because the cwd is bin.
19:05<Eddi|zuHause2>symlink ;)
19:05<Yexo>start from the upper directory with bin/openttd :)
19:05-!-fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
19:06<fjb>Yexo: r13749-noai: terminate called after throwing an instance of 'OTTDThreadExitSignal'
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>lrwxrwxrwx 1 johannes users 9 24. Mai 2007 bin/media -> ../media/
19:07<Yexo>fjb: can you maybe join #openttd.noai? then I won't have to copy those messages for TrueBrain :)
19:07<ln>Yexo: that's what i'm doing, but it's still bin despite that.
19:07<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... timing two trains on a single track line is really nontrivial
19:07<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: orly?
19:07-!-rortom [~rortom@p57B7C777.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
19:07<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro: yarly!
19:08<ln>Eddi|zuHause2: i know symlinks, but d'ogh, shouldn't some Makefile or something create those if necessary. or shouldn't the symlinks be in svn.
19:08-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad45699.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:08<Eddi|zuHause2>ln: i wondered that myself
19:11-!-Tim [~Tim@p5B37C4A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
19:11<Tim>Hello together... How exactly is the NoAI channel called?
19:11<Tim>!help
19:11<rortom>mh what does noai stand for btw?
19:12-!-fjb_ [~frank@p5485E31A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
19:12<Tim>It's the new Artifical Intelligence...
19:12<@Rubidium>Tim: #openttd.noai
19:12<Tim>Dunno why it is called "NO"-ai, kinda confusing :D
19:12<Tim>thjx
19:12<@Rubidium>rortom: No AI
19:12<@Rubidium>as there was No AI at some point
19:13<@Rubidium>or whatever you can construct from that acronym
19:14<ln>Rubidium: what do you say about the icon thing?
19:14<@Rubidium>use full screen?
19:15<Sacro>thou shalt have no false icons
19:15<@Rubidium>it requires partial install on make to get working in all cases
19:16<rortom>openttd just crashed my server :/
19:16<@Rubidium>rortom: sucky OS
19:17<@Rubidium>openttd shouldn't crash an OS
19:17-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FD60.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:17<ln>Rubidium: full screen is not an option as long as SDL doesn't support fullscreen without changing video mode and keeping the mouse to itself.
19:17<rortom>Rubidium: agreed, just a cheap linux host
19:17<rortom>but still strange
19:17<rortom>i think mem full or such
19:17<@Rubidium>that shouldn't crash an OS
19:18<rortom>oh, ottd kept running :)
19:18<rortom>just no ssh anymore ;)
19:18-!-fjb_ is now known as fjb
19:19<rortom>where can i checkout the noAI branch?
19:19<rortom>i seem to stupid to find a valid URL
19:19<@Rubidium>/branches/noai
19:20<rortom>thanks :)
19:20<Sacro>rortom: too
19:22<rortom>mh
19:22<rortom>you know premake?
19:22<@Rubidium>nope
19:23<rortom>its a nice too to generate build system files cross-platform
19:23<rortom>so just write a premake script thing
19:23<rortom>and that will generate a make file under linux and any windows VS-build sys
19:23<rortom>just FYI :)
19:24<rortom>http://premake.sourceforge.net/
19:24<@Rubidium>I doubt it'll support everything we need to keep OpenTTD cross-compilable
19:24<rortom>mh what could it be?
19:24*Lachie wakes up
19:24<rortom>flags?
19:24<rortom>links?
19:24<rortom>options?
19:25<@Rubidium>nasty hacks for calling gcc
19:25<rortom>ouch
19:25<rortom>we use it a lot and it proved really helpful for us
19:27<@Rubidium>doesn't seem to do osx application bundle stuff either
19:28<rortom>that could be
19:28<rortom>we just use it to sync linux and windows build systems
19:28<@Rubidium>got a script to do that
19:28<rortom>yes, saw that :)
19:29<rortom>as said, just FYI :)
19:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13751 /branches/noai/ (10 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: add support for 'adjacent stations', ie allow stations directly adjacent to other stations. Sorry, all AI will need an update (slap Yexo for that, as he could have requested it sooner)
19:29<rortom>i think your custom script does it well :)
19:30<rortom>oh, and btw
19:31<rortom>please add version tagging for the settings directory under windows XP
19:31<rortom>i get problems when using different versions ...
19:31<rortom>in "my documents" ...
19:32<+glx>rortom: just put an openttd.cfg in each version
19:32<Wolf01>'night
19:32-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host107-16-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
19:32<@Rubidium>rortom: and how do you expect that to work?
19:32<@Rubidium>create a new .cfg for each revision of OpenTTD?
19:34<rortom>no
19:34<rortom>we have to face that problem with RoR also
19:34-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1DA95.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:34<rortom>and im not sure how to face it either
19:34<+glx>what problem exactly?
19:35<rortom>saving files in mydocuments
19:35<rortom>and config files
19:35<rortom>OpenTTD-0.6.2 could work
19:35<rortom>mh is the new noai enabled by default?
19:36<+glx>I don't want to put the ttd files in many places
19:36<Sacro>XML!
19:36<+glx>there are no AI in noai
19:37-!-fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
19:37<rortom>haha, makes sense
19:37<rortom>so whats in there if no ai?
19:37<rortom>just stripped version?
19:38<Tefad>noai is an API set
19:38<Yexo>a framework to allow AIs :)
19:38<@Rubidium>an API + scripting language so you can write AIs
19:38<rortom>ah :D
19:38<rortom>now that makes more sense :)
19:38<Tefad>is it not lua? i forget
19:38<+glx>squirrel
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19:39-!-fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
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19:40<rortom>at least you dont have to code 3d stuff in openttd :\
19:41<rortom>makes me some headcaches sometimes
19:41<+glx>hehe
19:41<@Rubidium>are you sure?
19:41<@Rubidium>bounding boxes for drawing are really 3d boxes
19:41<rortom>oh, indeed :)
19:42<rortom>but i am about to write a tire trace class
19:42<rortom>that generates a 3d mesh out of a triangle strip :/
19:42<+glx>for burns?
19:42<rortom>yes
19:42<+glx>cool
19:43<rortom>bit complicated to get it working the correct way
19:43<+glx>btw TNT explosion effects is weird
19:43<rortom>in RoR?
19:43<+glx>yes
19:43<rortom>its no tnt
19:43<rortom>its just a 'bug' found by users :)
19:44<rortom>the physical model tends to explode when there are certain conditions
19:44<+glx>I mean the explosive crates
19:44<rortom>i mean those also :)
19:44-!-Ridayah [~ridayah@12-208-15-67.client.mchsi.com] has joined #openttd
19:45<+glx>anyway it's weird (and unrealistic ;) )
19:45<rortom>yes, its not intended at all... ;)
19:45<rortom>mh im working with boost atm
19:45<rortom>nice lib, especially the boost::python
19:47-!-fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
19:49-!-fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
19:50<rortom>connect_to_ip = france.rigsofrods.com:5002
19:50<rortom>is it valid to give a port?
19:50<+glx>yes
19:50<rortom>thanks
19:51<rortom>mhm also
19:51<rortom>autoclean_companies = true
19:51<rortom>autoclean_unprotected = 12
19:51<rortom>autoclean_protected = -1
19:51<rortom>->only clean unprotected?
19:51<rortom>would be handy to have
19:52<+glx>Max value - 256 months ~ 21 game years.
19:52<rortom>yes
19:52<rortom>used that
19:52<rortom>and pw-protected companies still timed out
19:53<+glx>then the password is removed
19:53<rortom>ah, and then removed i guess?
19:53<rortom>i think more control over that would be nice to have :)
19:53<+glx>when autoclean_unprotected triggers yes
19:54<+glx>but use also min_players
19:54<+glx>so the game is paused when there are no players
19:54<rortom>good point
19:54<+glx>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Min_players
19:54<rortom>so the autopilot is kinda useless?
19:55<rortom>as it also pauses the game?
19:56<+glx>autopilot can still be used to log stuff
19:56<rortom>sure
19:56<rortom>but the pause function is redundant then
19:56<+glx>it was only in autopilot before we added it in openttd ;)
19:56<rortom>also, my ottd bot is kinda working :)
19:56<rortom>hehe, nice :)
19:57<Lachie>autopilot refused to install on my server when i tried
19:57<Lachie>lol
19:57-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:57<Lachie>actually no
19:57<Lachie>I believe it installed, but wouldn't start the game
19:57<rortom>:|
19:58<rortom>added the configs?
19:58<Lachie>no clue
19:58<Lachie>it was ages ago
19:58<rortom>;)
19:58<Lachie>and it was my admin doing the work lol
19:59<+glx>linux or windows?
19:59<Lachie>linux I believe
19:59<Lachie>but as I said, it was ages ago, doesn't matter now
20:00-!-Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
20:01<rortom>yorick found a bug in the ottd bot :)
20:01<Lachie>but it's at http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22846&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=200 if you're interested.
20:01<rortom>it should work will all servers now :)
20:02<rortom>also im submitting a patch now
20:04<+glx>Lachie: I know where to find it (I helped for the windows support ;) )
20:05<rortom>added: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2151
20:05<+glx>rortom: we have #openttd.notice ;)
20:05<rortom>okok ;)
20:06<rortom>i hope its small enough to pass QA :)
20:09-!-Digitalfox_ [~Digitalfo@bl7-183-195.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
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20:12<rortom>also the server does not restrict chat message properly
20:12<rortom>i can sent "NETWORK_ACTION_GIVE_MONEY" with some money as argument
20:12<rortom>and it comes out as fake message, so no cehcks i guess
20:14<rortom>if you want a demonstration, just say an IP:port and you are able to test yourself :)
20:15-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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20:27<+glx>rortom: as spectator?
20:28<rortom>yes
20:29-!-Digitalfox_ [~Digitalfo@bl7-183-195.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:32<Ammler>rortom: ps.openttdcoop.org:3979
20:34-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:35<+glx>rortom: does your "client" needs a specific version?
20:36<rortom>no
20:37<rortom>i will let it join soon :)
20:38<rortom>just found a tiny thing i want to improve first
20:39<+glx>rortom: glx.dnsalias.net:3979
20:40-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75548.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:47<+glx>rortom: tell me when you're ready (I'll start the server ;) )
20:48<rortom>ok, i just found my bug
20:49<rortom>:|
20:51<+glx>hmm I think it won't really give money but just tell it gave it
20:52<rortom>yes
20:52<rortom>ok, ready?
20:52<+glx>started
20:53<rortom>connected
20:53<rortom>say !test2
20:54<rortom>to !test5
20:54<+glx>!test5 is nice :)
20:55<rortom>test5 = kick i hope :)
20:55<+glx>yes
20:55<rortom>it tries to place a sign
20:55<rortom>so you saw the problem i guess :)
20:56<+glx>it's not really a problem
20:56<rortom>yes
20:56<rortom>but its also not good that its not checked?
20:57<rortom>@ ammler: your server is password protected you gave me :)
20:59<Ammler>[02:57] <PublicServer> ottd-bot has left the game (connection lost)
20:59<Ammler>:-)
20:59<rortom>sure, i have no password ... :p
21:00<+glx>rortom: rejoin my server (I added some breakpoints ;) )
21:00<rortom>ok
21:01<rortom>the irc bridge is not fully working yet
21:01-!-Sir-Bob [~chatzilla@c122-107-227-146.eburwd5.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
21:02<Ammler>http://ps.openttdcoop.org/rortom
21:03<rortom>ok
21:05<rortom>@glx, say when done ;)
21:15<+glx>need to modify code
21:15<+glx>so server down for now
21:22<+glx>rortom: retry :)
21:24<rortom>ok
21:24<rortom>joined
21:25<+glx>seems to be fixed
21:26<rortom>nice :)
21:26<rortom>so at least the bot helped a bit ;)
21:27<+glx>but I think there are other messages unwanted from spectator
21:28<rortom>could be
21:28<rortom>@ammler joining...
21:31<rortom>@ammler: wrong password? :\
21:33<Ammler>rortom: it changes every 5mins
21:33<rortom>:|
21:33<rortom>pls gimme new one then ;)
21:33<Ammler>I am not there anymore...
21:33<rortom>got it
21:33<Ammler>just reload
21:33<rortom>done
21:33<rortom>its on the server
21:34<rortom>join #ap+
21:34<rortom>thats the irc bridge channel :)
21:34-!-fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
21:36<+glx>your bot uses NETWORK_ACTION_SERVER_MESSAGE to send message it seems
21:36<Ammler>the chat bridge would be nice for admins, which aren't able to install autopilot
21:37<rortom>yes
21:37<rortom>im still working on it
21:38<rortom>@ glx, i will look
21:38<rortom> payload = packExt('bbHz', NETWORK_ACTION_GIVE_MONEY, DESTTYPE_BROADCAST, 0, "1783424")
21:38<rortom> self.sendMsg(PACKET_CLIENT_CHAT, payload_size, payload, type=M_TCP)
21:38<rortom>yes, it does
21:39<+glx>wrong paste ;)
21:40<rortom>indeed :)
21:40<rortom>now i got you :)
21:40<rortom>the NETWORK_ACTION_SERVER_MESSAGE is nice as it hides the botname itself
21:40<rortom>thats integrating IRC better
21:46-!-fjb [~frank@p5485E31A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:55<+glx>rortom: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/filter_network_chat.diff <-- that will kill your bot ;)
21:57<rortom>nice :)
21:57<rortom>i added the functions to test ottd
21:57<rortom>to its good that this is getting fixed :)
21:57<rortom>*so
21:58<+glx>theorically it will now be unable to say anything (as it doesn't 'chat')
21:59<rortom>good :)
22:01<+glx>hehe it's possible to team-chat without being in the team
22:01-!-Sir-Bob [~chatzilla@c122-107-227-146.eburwd5.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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22:04<+glx>rejoin if you want
22:04<Yexo>glx: that may actually be wanted behaviour
22:05<Yexo>there even is a console command for that
22:05<+glx>yes and the client list gui too
22:06<Yexo>the client list gui sends a message to one client, not the team the client is in
22:06<rortom>@ glx, will join in a second
22:06<+glx>Yexo: check better :)
22:07<+glx>there are private, team and all
22:07<Yexo>I see :)
22:08<+glx>so you can send a message to all members of the other company if you want
22:08<+glx>but indeed that can be useful
22:11<rortom>@glx: connected
22:11<+glx>it is quite silent now ;)
22:11<rortom>see #ap+
22:11<+glx>on oftc?
22:11<rortom>yes
22:35<rortom>gn8
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 20 00:00:12 2008