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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-07-23

---Logopened Wed Jul 23 00:00:25 2008
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02:14<einKarl>Hello
02:17<einKarl>am i right: a problem with assertion-crash while working on order (of trams) is not yet reported?
02:18<einKarl>(Version: r13776)
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02:29<Celestar>peter1138: you there?
02:32<@peter1138>Yes
02:34<einKarl>cu later
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02:37<Celestar>peter1138: I'm doing nice progress here. I might have a finished route network system by the end of the weekend, but I might/will need some assistance when it comes to saveloading
02:39<Celestar>I might be finished earlier, but I'm trying to do this cleanly
02:39<Celestar>we've had enough Q&D shots at the paxdest thingy imho
02:40<@peter1138>Q&D?
02:40<@peter1138>Oh
02:40<@peter1138>Quick and dirty...
02:42<Celestar>yeah
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02:52<Celestar>peter1138: we should also separate this whole thingy into two part 1) the graph/network (incl. pathfinding), 2) the actual cargo handling (generation, boarding, deboarding, etc)
02:55<@peter1138>Yes...
02:55<@peter1138>That is logical, but I don't know how the other patches handled them.
03:00-!-Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
03:01<Celestar>messy?
03:05<Celestar>how does one access a station's name?!
03:18<Noldo>what do you have? ID?
03:18<Celestar>yeah
03:20<@peter1138>You want its actual string?
03:21<@peter1138>SetDParam(0, st->index);
03:21<@peter1138>GetString(buf, STR_STATION, lastof(buf));
03:21<Celestar>ok.
03:21<Celestar>too much for debugging output. the ID will do
03:21<@peter1138>Where buf is some preallocated buffer.
03:21<@peter1138>Not that much, and more handy than an ID.
03:22<Noldo>what is index there?
03:22<@peter1138>st->index is station id...
03:22<Noldo>ok
03:23<Celestar>buf is something like char[250] ?
03:25<Celestar>/home/vici/openttd/trunk/src/direction_func.h:203: multiple definition of `_routing'
03:25<Celestar>station_cmd.o:/home/vici/openttd/trunk/src/track_type.h:60: first defined here
03:25<Celestar>what the fuck? :P
03:30<Noldo>is that a linking error
03:31<Celestar>yeah
03:31<Celestar>there's no variable called _routing anywhere near those lines :P
03:35<Celestar>Routing_t *Routing; <= there's really a lot that can go wrong in this line, right?
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03:47<Celestar>I've really fuqqed this up badly
03:47<Celestar>the debugger throws errors ^^
03:48*SpComb discovers a silly bug in his code
03:49<SpComb>when receiving the HTTP data into a memory buffer, I would double the size of the buffer if the new data didn't fit... but I didn't check if the new data would actually fit into the doubled buffer :P
03:50<SpComb>you might need to quadruple the buffer to make it fit
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03:55<Celestar>you might want to find the size first and then allocate the buffer according to it? :P
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03:57<planetmaker>morning all
03:57<Celestar>peter1138: when exactly are stations allocated?!
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03:58<Celestar> \o michi_cc
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04:14<Celestar>why are we preallocating 64 stations on game start :o
04:16-!-GoneWack0 is now known as GoneWacko
04:16<Celestar>this is totally weird
04:18<SpComb>Celestar: true, if you can depend on the HTTP server giving you a Content-Length header, libcurl probably gives you access to it
04:18<SpComb>libcurl's support for receive-into-mem is kind of poor
04:19<Celestar>I dunno shit about libcurl
04:19*Celestar just discovered that one can type "make" from within gdb
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05:08<Celestar>why is everyone quiet as hell ?:P
05:08<Yorick>shh
05:10<Singaporekid>:o
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05:26<Noldo>I'm actively trying to work, but failing, which makes me sad and quiet
05:27<blathijs>Noldo: Work on what?
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05:42<fmauNeko>hello :)
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06:08<Artamirx>hi
06:08<Artamirx>someone can help me about local authority please?
06:08<Artamirx>I need to disable it
06:08<Artamirx>:S
06:08<ln>bribe it
06:09<guru3>i don't think you can disable the local authority
06:09<Artamirx>I can't bribe unlimited
06:09<guru3>you can set in the difficulty options before the start of a new game that they will be tollerant in their attitude towards leveliing surround mountains etc
06:09<Artamirx>I think there is a patch
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06:09<guru3>(lor that htey will be hostile: that's how i do it)
06:09<guru3>you can also plant trees nearby to help improve their opinion of you
06:10<Artamirx>mmhm
06:10<Artamirx>I need to destroy a city completely
06:10<Artamirx>because
06:10<Artamirx>I change the buildings set
06:10<Artamirx>can you understand me? :)
06:11<Artamirx>I had "NA city set" and I want to have other buildings
06:11<Artamirx>and the only way is rebuilding cities
06:11<Artamirx>D:
06:11<ln>so what you really want is nuclear weapons?
06:11<guru3>i'm not sure about changing building sets while playing
06:11<Artamirx>hahahahaha
06:11<guru3>but wouldn't it get cycled out over time?
06:11<guru3>or does it just not switch all at once
06:11<Artamirx>I'm trying using the set in patch "building cities faster"
06:12<Artamirx>and "disable to cities to build more roads"
06:12<Artamirx>:)
06:12<guru3>you could start a new game
06:12<guru3>if the buildings are that important to you
06:12<Artamirx>noooooooooo
06:12<Artamirx>I have too much infraestructure
06:12<Artamirx>in this game
06:12<Artamirx>X_X
06:13<guru3>well if you're focus is infrastructure
06:13<guru3>the buildigns aren't really that important are they?
06:13<Artamirx>aha
06:13<Artamirx>are secondary
06:13<Artamirx>:)
06:13<Artamirx>watch my screens
06:13<Artamirx>to see my infraestructure
06:13<Artamirx>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=38091
06:14<Yorick>the airport asfalt :)
06:14<Artamirx>someone knows what I have to do to put snow in temperate climate?
06:14<Artamirx>I saw some nice screens
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06:15<Artamirx>with mountains full of snow
06:15<guru3>you'll never destroy all of those towns
06:15<guru3>it'll take you hundreds of years and buiillions
06:16<Artamirx>xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
06:16<Artamirx>I forgive the buildings better
06:16<Artamirx>and snow?
06:16<Artamirx>o.o
06:16<Artamirx>which grf is?
06:16<Artamirx>to have snowy mountains in temperate climate
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06:17<guru3>i don't know
06:17<guru3>i haven't actively played in about 3 years really
06:18<Artamirx>ok thx :)
06:18<guru3>i excel merely in general transport theory
06:18<Artamirx>o.0
06:19<guru3>i first played the game over 10 years ago
06:19<guru3>so i know how to play it very well, i just haven't done so recently
06:21<guru3>don't know i fi could go doing something that detailed like that, i don't think i have the patience to completely emulate a country
06:21<Artamirx>:O
06:21<guru3>i prefer freestyle much more
06:21<Artamirx>I emulate my conuntry
06:21<Artamirx>hahah
06:22<Artamirx>a part only
06:22<guru3>the one thing which i would consider putting serious time into
06:22<guru3>would be making a round-a-bout that worked
06:22<Artamirx>:O
06:22<guru3>not a 4 way junction, a true round-a-bout
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06:23<planetmaker>[12:16] <Artamirx> to have snowy mountains in temperate climate <-- probably alpine climate by MB
06:23<Artamirx>0.o
06:23<Artamirx>I have a grf
06:23<Artamirx>named "alpine climate"
06:23<Artamirx>but
06:23<Artamirx>snow didn't appear
06:23<Artamirx>:S
06:24<planetmaker>yeah. That should do the trick. You need to set the snow heigth. Read the manual to it :)
06:24<planetmaker>grf have parameters
06:24<Artamirx>aha
06:24<Artamirx>where is the post?
06:24<Artamirx>do you have a link?
06:24<Artamirx>or I have to use "search"? ^^^
06:24<planetmaker>no. Use grfcrawler
06:24<Artamirx>okay
06:25<Artamirx>in grfcrawler
06:25<Artamirx>the link is broken
06:25<Artamirx>D:
06:25<planetmaker>or look for the grf package of #openttdcoop. It should come with the readmes. But if you have it, you should have the readme, too :)
06:26<planetmaker>[12:25] <PublicServer> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF (GRFPack 7.1)
06:26<guru3>ahhh i'm glad openttdcoop is prevalent
06:26<planetmaker>:)
06:27<Artamirx>i was sear4ching it
06:27<Artamirx>thanks :D
06:28<guru3>time to get back to work... cu
06:28<planetmaker>[12:11] <guru3> i'm not sure about changing building sets while playing <--- that can seriously f*** up your game.
06:28<planetmaker>yw
06:29<Artamirx>no, I tried
06:29<Artamirx>and the game normally runs
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06:29<Artamirx>but, buildings turn to TTD version
06:29<Artamirx>and I have to destroy them and re-build
06:29<planetmaker>it may work, may seem to work or crash altogether.
06:30<planetmaker>Don't complain about anything later then.
06:30<ln>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/23/enormouse/
06:30<Artamirx>hahah
06:32<planetmaker>seriously. town sets have an impact on economy. Stations may stop or start to accept cargo and all kind of weired stuff
06:32<planetmaker>better start a new game
06:35<Artamirx>okay
06:37<Artamirx>which tram set it's okay?
06:37<Artamirx>actual and nice
06:38<Artamirx>mmmh, supertram rocks
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06:49<Celestar>peter1138: http://pastebin.com/m36e3d465
07:01<rortom>morning all
07:01<Celestar>hey
07:04*rortom understood the grf format :D
07:04<rortom>so if i may ask
07:04<rortom>when are conflicting grfs not loaded?
07:04-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@ndb.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: brb]
07:04<rortom>means when are they conflicting?
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07:06<Ammler>rortom: Action9/7 and then ActionB
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07:08<Eddi|zuHause2>when the grf explicitly says so
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07:09<rortom>mhm
07:09<rortom>so if i load the canadian set and then the usset, what will happen?
07:09<rortom>do they overwrite?
07:10<Eddi|zuHause2>depends
07:10<Eddi|zuHause2>a) they can check if they are compatible with each other, then the second one gets disabled
07:11<Eddi|zuHause2>b) engine pool can be enabled, then both won't affect each other [mostly]
07:11<rortom>mh ok
07:11<rortom>and wow, the grf stuff is complex :p
07:11<Eddi|zuHause2>c) else the second one will override vehicles from the first one
07:11<rortom>thanks :)
07:12<Noldo>canadian set doesn't like enginepool, or is it changed?
07:12<Ammler>Noldo: there is no canada set anymore :-)
07:12<Eddi|zuHause2>Noldo: that version has been withdrawn
07:13<rortom>:/
07:13<Ammler>!s/:-)/:-(/
07:13<rortom>what grf combination do you use on OTTD:COOP?
07:13<planetmaker>I somewhat doubt that there'll be a resurrection. But hope dies last...
07:13<planetmaker>rortom: depends. Each time different :)
07:14<Ammler>currently the version before he coded against engine pool :-)
07:14<Noldo>interesting
07:14<Ammler>rortom: it is a svn repo, we have almost every version :-)
07:15<planetmaker>:) ^^ the god of the grf collectors has spoken ;)
07:15<rortom>oh :D
07:15<rortom>access?
07:15<Ammler>mäh
07:15<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler turned into a sheep!
07:15<planetmaker>[12:25] <PublicServer> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF (GRFPack 7.1)
07:16<rortom>ah, you mean that :)
07:16<rortom>thats nice :)
07:16<planetmaker>there are older versions, accessible via svn... with password :P
07:16<rortom>:(
07:16<planetmaker>rortom: but the older, official releases are available, too
07:16<rortom>so where is the current grf combination you use?
07:17<rortom>ok, thanks
07:17<planetmaker>http://www.openttdcoop.org/blog/public-server/
07:17<Ammler>rortom: in respect for authors, we do not allow public access to trunk
07:17<rortom>aha, ok :)
07:17<Ammler>actually, I am not sure, if it is closes
07:18<Ammler>you should always use the newest version
07:19<rortom>sure
07:19<Ammler>if you need for testing purposes an older version just pm us...
07:19<rortom>sure, thanks :)
07:19<rortom>i want to code some crawler, so old versions would be nice :)
07:20<Ammler>crawler?
07:20<rortom>like the grf crawler
07:20<rortom>just with live data
07:20<Ammler>well, the grf crawler isn't a crawler :-)
07:20<rortom>yep
07:21<rortom>thats why i want to code one ;)
07:21<Ammler>rortom: do you know grf2html?
07:21<rortom>no?
07:21<Ammler>check it, might help you too :-)
07:21<rortom>*checking*
07:22<rortom>urgh
07:22<rortom>pascal
07:22<Ammler>it might be OS, not sure
07:22<Celestar>I need a book on boost
07:22<Ammler>:-)
07:23<rortom>so gets boost a offical dependenccy for building ottd?
07:24<Celestar>rortom: it's header only
07:24<Celestar>rortom: we can just ship the files we need
07:24<rortom>Ammler: thanks for the tip :)
07:24<rortom>yes :)
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07:26<Celestar>we *could* make paxdest optional by compile time should we have platform problems
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07:34<blathijs>Celestar: Huh? What funky stuff are you doing to break paxdest on some platforms?
07:35<Celestar>blathijs: I'm not.
07:35<Celestar>blathijs: I'm using the boost library
07:35<blathijs>Ah
07:35<Celestar>which should bascially work everywhere where the stl works
07:35<Celestar>i.e. any platform that contains a non-stupid C++ compiler
07:36<blathijs>But we're already using STL, right?
07:36<blathijs>so that shouldn't be a problem?
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07:36<blathijs>though having a --without-boost compile option would be ok, though probably pretty impossible to maintain
07:37<Celestar>blathijs: it wouldn't be impossible to maintain
07:37<Celestar>it'd just disable paxdest
07:37-!-plakkertjes [~asfasf@ip51cc357e.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd
07:37<Celestar>blathijs: I'm not willing to make an implementation where paxdest are all over the place
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07:46<blathijs>Celestar: Perhaps not impossible, but once we start using boost for paxdest, it will probably get used in other places as well. Though we might require that code only uses boost if it can be disabled, though.
07:46<blathijs>Celestar: What part of boost do you need, btw?
07:46-!-Gekz_ [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
07:48<Celestar>blathijs: the graph
07:49<blathijs>Ah, and graph reachability algorithms etc?
07:49<Celestar>possibly
07:49<Celestar>it has an A* and countless other algorithms implemented.
07:49<Celestar>it's no good to reinvent the wheel
07:50<blathijs>Isn't that what we do half of the time? :-p
07:50<Celestar>well, it's not good to continue to reinvent the wheel
07:51<blathijs>Just be sure that you use a wheel that fits well enough, though
07:52<Ammler>if the reinvention is better?
07:52-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:53<blathijs>Because half of the time existing wheels turn out to not fit well enough once you start using it more, and in the other half of the time the wheel is so flexible with connection options for so many different types of carts that your cart will hardly move because the wheel is so heavy
07:53<blathijs>But, you can always invent a new wheel when that happens :-p
07:53<Progman>shouldn't the svn:ignore property of trunk/bin/scenario/heightmap/ contains "*.png"?
07:53<Noldo>I think it's a good idea to use BGL for now
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07:54<Noldo>later if it feels too heavy you can replace it, but then you know which features and parts of it you really need
07:54<Noldo>and you propably have somewhat clean interface
07:57<Celestar>I somehow need to map the route to the vehicles
07:57<Celestar>because a route can be served by many vehicles
07:57<Celestar>and I can only delete the route if the last vehicles has been removed
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07:59<Celestar>peter1138: I require your assistance
08:01*SpComb is very afraid of C++
08:01<SpComb>haet haet
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08:04<Celestar>SpComb: ?
08:05<+glx>Celestar: can't you use the orders as an order is deleted when no vehicle use it
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08:07*Celestar thinks about what glx said
08:07<Celestar>do we have something like and OrderID?
08:08<Celestar>I somehow need to identify the route with a vehicle
08:08<Celestar>and preferably not by pointers
08:09<Celestar>because pointers in pools tend to move around
08:09<Eddi|zuHause2>vehicle id?
08:09<Celestar>that's what I'm planning at the moment, Eddi|zuHause2
08:12<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... i have a feature request... cities that expand into villages should "consume" them [make them also cities]
08:13<Eddi|zuHause2>(like they become suburbs
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08:14<+glx>Celestar: yes we have OrderID
08:27<Celestar>glx: k. I'll see what is easier
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08:28<Celestar>glx: I hope the OrderID of an order does NEVER change in the course of a game
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08:28<+glx>it's the ID in the pool order
08:28<Celestar>so it's fixed
08:28<+glx>yes
08:28<+glx>like VehicleID
08:30<Celestar>good
08:30<Celestar>using that then
08:30<Celestar>not worry about shared vehicles
08:33<Celestar>hmpf
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08:36<Celestar>I can safely assume that sizeof(size_t) > sizeof(OrderID) right?
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08:40<SpComb>C++ is big, complicated and ugly
08:40<Celestar>SpComb: heh
08:40<Celestar>implementing paxdest in C will be bigger, more complicated and uglier, trust me
08:40<Celestar>..
08:41<Celestar>...(I never thought I'd ever say that)
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08:42<SpComb>I'm just more familiar with pretty C code than with any C++ code
08:42<SpComb>and so far my impression of the C++ code in OpenTTD is pretty bad, but that's mostly because it's been hacked into a C codebase
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08:49<Celestar>my routing code is pure C++ :D
08:49<rortom>:D
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09:10<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13796 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2161]: one couldn't start the last scenario in the "start server window"'s list of scenarios.
09:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13797 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [FS#2160](r13715): crash when displaying save/load errors
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09:29<Celestar>the people in #boost are anything but helpful :S
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09:32<rortom>whats your problem?
09:33<Celestar>rortom: I'm not getting edge_range to work
09:33<Celestar>it's not happy with my parameters
09:33<Celestar>rortom: neither is edge()
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09:33<Celestar>remove_edge(), which takes the same parameters, works nicely
09:36<Progman>how to check in c if a string ends with ".png"?
09:36<Celestar>sometimes I love gcc error messages: http://pastebin.com/m415911eb
09:36<Eddi|zuHause2>anyone ever thought the pauli principle might be a good way to assign vehicles to road stops? :p
09:37<ln>the what?
09:37<@Rubidium>return strlen(str) > 4 && strcmp(str[strlen(str) - 4], ".png") == 0; (ugly though)
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09:39<Eddi|zuHause2>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_exclusion_principle
09:40<Progman>not working :(, invalid conversion from 'char' to 'const char*'
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09:42<Eddi|zuHause2>well... if there were a regexp lib, you could search for .png$ :p
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09:49<Eddi|zuHause2>or in python you could say str.endswith(".png") :p
09:50<Eddi|zuHause2>let's rewrite openttd in python! :p
09:50<Yorick>Eddi: #openttd-python?
09:50<Yorick>I thought so ^^
09:51<Eddi|zuHause2>Yorick: why would i conciously enter a channel where you have op?
09:52<Yorick>because you wanted to rewrite openttd in python and I'm currently doing so?
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09:54<Eddi|zuHause2>because i made a joke and you took it seriously?
09:55<Yorick>we started before your joke
09:56<Lachie>look up with ur scriptz
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09:56<Lachie>*good luck
09:56<Lachie>umm
09:56<Lachie>I don't even know how that failure of typing occured
09:56<Eddi|zuHause2>Yorick: a) i know that, and b) that horrifies me even more
09:57<Eddi|zuHause2>Lachie: common typo :p
09:57<Celestar>where's peter1138 ?
09:57<Lachie>Eddi|zuHause2: ofcourse it is xD
09:58<Eddi|zuHause2>Lachie: the proper response is "the keys are right next to each other" :p
09:58<Celestar>heh.
09:58<Lachie>that was my thought, but it was too cliche
09:58<Celestar>I can already set up a route network and only needs 200 lines of code (=
09:59<Lachie>since "good luck" from "look up" isn't quite the similarity between "YOU ALL SUCK DICK" and "hi."
09:59<hylje>not at all
10:00<Lachie>lol
10:01*Lachie bed
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10:05<Celestar>GNAH
10:05-!-Yorick [~Y0R1CK@82-171-194-232.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting…]
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10:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13798 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: AIEngine.IsBigPlane() (Yexo) (no, we really talk about airplanes)
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10:17<Sacro>@seen dominik87
10:17<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen dominik87.
10:17<Sacro>@seen domini
10:17<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen domini.
10:17<Sacro>@seen dom*
10:17<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Dominik was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 6 days, 0 hours, 9 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <Dominik> our scummvm god!
10:19<Yorick>h was talking about Ludde
10:21<Sacro>@seen ludde
10:21<@DorpsGek>Sacro: ludde was last seen in #openttd 28 weeks, 0 days, 17 hours, 57 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <ludde> :)
10:21<Celestar>WTH? ludde and dominik were here?
10:21<Eddi|zuHause2>28 weeks later...
10:24<+glx>Celestar: dominik is porting OTTD to DS
10:24<Eddi|zuHause2>Celestar: yeah, ludde was somewhat bored after he sold µtorrent, so he checked out what was going on here ;)
10:25<Celestar>heh :D
10:25<rortom>lol
10:26<blathijs>Is that the same dominik then?
10:26<Eddi|zuHause2>yes
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10:35<+glx>but dominik first came using another nick
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10:39<ln>are we talking about dominik81?
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10:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13799 /trunk/src/lang/ (36 files): -Fix (r13730): {RAW_STRING} should be used in english.txt only
11:00<Celestar>peter1138: status report: Setting up the route network works nicely, removing mostly. I've now got to skip at least non-station orders. I'm not here tomorrow so it'll be friday
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11:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13800 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: minor comment style fixes in misc_gui.cpp
11:03<planetmaker>whooo. The next 100 commits done :)
11:04<Ammler>SmatZ: only style fixes or adding the station grf infos?
11:04<SmatZ>only comment style fixes
11:04<SmatZ>long story...
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11:17<Tim>Hello everyone!
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11:18<SmatZ>hello Tim
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11:20<Tim>I have a question... I want to edit my .grfs via the config file and not the iname menu, as i want to be able to a) categorize them into groups like OpenGFX, ECSVectors, Trainsets etc. and b) don't want to add and remove them everytime via the ingame-menu, which takes quite some time. Now my question: How can i "disable" grfs in the cfg file without deleting them? There probably is a kind "comment-symbol", which leads to the game to not read what stan
11:21<Ammler>";" or "#"
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11:21<Tim>okay
11:21<Ammler>but be aware of that ottd writes the config back after closing
11:21<Tim>argh -.-
11:21<Ammler>you could start ottd with -x
11:22<Ammler>with which version do you play?
11:22<Tim>latest nightly...
11:22<Tim>Just played on your server :P
11:23<Tim>And what does -x do? Prevent the config file to be overwritten?
11:23<Ammler>Tim: well, our server doesn't use the latest :-)
11:23<Tim>*almost* latest ;)
11:23<Ammler>but the latest nightly has presets, which rocks.
11:24<Tim>aah
11:24<Tim>just reading it...
11:24<Tim>-Feature: NewGRF presets, selected by a drop down list in the NewGRF window. Presets are saved in the config file.
11:24<Ammler>where?
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11:24<Tim>changes.log
11:24<Ammler>ok :-)
11:25<Tim>Hm, however it sounds not like the ultimate solution... I'd like an option to add a bunch of grf-files to my already selected ones, like all of the opengfx grfs
11:25<Ammler>I guess, you can then save your settings in a preset group
11:25<Tim>or remove them...
11:25<Ammler>and copy&paste them up
11:26<Ammler>that might be possible already before presets, btw...
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11:26<Tim>testing...
11:27<Ammler>create a goup [mynewgrflist] and c&p it to [newgrf]
11:27<Brianetta>Somebody on the coop server is desyncing
11:28<Tim>So i can add a group [OpenGFX] followed by the grfs, and then one [ECSVectors] etc, and those won't be overwritten?
11:29<Yexo>Tim: they'll only be overwritten if you save over them in the gui
11:29<Ammler>Yexo: are you sure?
11:29<Yexo>not 100% :)
11:29<Ammler>openttd does only delete goups which are known.
11:30<Brianetta>[autopilot] sections have never been deleted by openttd
11:30<Ammler>as autopilot couldn't use the cfg too.
11:30<Yorick>Ammler: I don't think it deletes anything...
11:30<Yexo>so them I was right, as long as you use section names OpenTTD doesn't konw about
11:30<Tim>True, i also have a group [sharing] in my cfg
11:31<Ammler>so if you create a group [OpenGFX], that shouldn't be touched.
11:31<Yexo>Yorick: IIRC it deletes some old groups, when you update
11:31<Ammler>sadly
11:31<Ammler>that breaks usage of the cfg for different versions.
11:31<DJNekkid>train documentary on Discovery Channel!
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11:33<Brianetta>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7eBkvQNEaU
11:34<Brianetta>Train documentary on Youtube (:
11:34<DJNekkid>lol
11:35<Yorick>train documentary on openttd while playing!
11:36<Brianetta>I get a warm feeling whenever I fire up OpenTTD
11:36<SmatZ>:-)
11:36<SmatZ>Brianetta: sign of addiction
11:36<Brianetta>I can handle it
11:37<SmatZ>everyone says that :-)
11:37<Brianetta>I'm going to a help group on the 9th
11:37<Brianetta>in Leicester Square
11:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13801 /trunk/ (Makefile.in config.lib):
11:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Add: further configuration options to make packaging more union
11:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Add: Unix man file gets now installed if necessary
11:38<Brianetta>That Youtube link, btw, is good
11:38<DJNekkid>ill see it in aprox 20 mins :)
11:39<Tim>Can i name my grf files like i want, or will they then not be found if i try connect to a server?
11:40<planetmaker>do as you like, Tim
11:40<planetmaker>md5sum matters
11:40<Brianetta>You can rename them, or put them in sub-folders
11:40<Brianetta>It'll find them if they're unaltered
11:40<Tim>That's good to know
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11:52<DJNekkid>could it be better? A cap on my lap, along with a laptop, and a steamer documentary
11:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13802 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix(r13801): a few small typos
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12:02<Ammler>how do I commit something, if I get a "C" on svn st
12:03<Ammler>(there is no -force or such?)
12:03<@Rubidium>fix the conflict and then tell svn you resolved the conflict
12:03<Ammler>Rubidium: I have fixed, how do I tell, that I did?
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12:03<SmatZ>svn resolved
12:03<DaleStan>or svn help
12:04<Ammler>yeah
12:04<Ammler>thanks
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12:08<Ammler>Rubidium: sorry, that was obivous.
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12:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13803 /trunk/ (Makefile.in config.lib): -Fix(r13801): Copy & paste mistakes
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12:52<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13804 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix(r13801): a search after remove should help to find missed incarnations
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12:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13805 /trunk/Makefile.in: -Fix(r13801): Missed a replacement
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13:04<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... i'm missing a tank wagon
13:05<Eddi|zuHause2>i only have the 60km/h one, not the 80km/h
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13:08<Wolf01>olleh
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13:09<ln>oaic
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13:13<Wolf01>troper gub a evah i
13:13<Wolf01>hmmm
13:14<Wolf01>i have a bug report
13:14<Wolf01>(reverse mode was on)
13:15<Wolf01>I have a lot of grfs loaded, so I don't know if the savegame is really useful
13:15<Wolf01>but if you want I can tell you how to replicate the bug
13:15<Wolf01>I'll post on flyspray
13:15<ln>does anyone want to know?
13:16<Ammler>Wolf01: aren't you able to reproduce on a new "empty" map?
13:17<Wolf01>maybe
13:19<Eddi|zuHause2>ahh... it comes out only in 1940, not 1930 like the others...
13:19<Wolf01>the bug consist in: stop a train engine in the middle of the X of a junction and all trains waiting at red double signals will reverse
13:19<Eddi|zuHause2>whose idea was that?!
13:20<Ammler>Wolf01: isn't it intended?
13:20<@Rubidium>two_way_eol?
13:21<Wolf01>eh, no, because if you stop the engine just after or before the center of the X it works normally
13:21<@Rubidium>Wolf01: I reckon you're using YAPF
13:26<Wolf01>ok, also with a clean openttd.cfg it happen
13:27<@Rubidium>I reckon it's pf.yapf.first_red_twoway_eol that's causing it
13:30<Wolf01>but it doesn't happen if you stop the engine in another position always in the same junction
13:30<frosch123>yes, it must be the engine
13:32<SmatZ>trains reverse when there is another train waiting at the other side of twoway signal
13:33<SmatZ>maybe this detection is broken
13:33<Wolf01>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2162
13:33<SmatZ>but I am afraid I don't understand you full
13:33<SmatZ>y
13:33<frosch123>the problem is, the detection does not consider the orientation of the other train
13:34<SmatZ>CheckVehicleAtSignal()
13:34<frosch123>when you stop train #1 on the X junction, train #2 thinks the #1 is waiting in front of the signal
13:35<SmatZ> if (diff == DIRDIFF_90RIGHT || (v->cur_speed <= 5 && diff <= DIRDIFF_REVERSE)) return v;
13:35<SmatZ>yeah
13:36<SmatZ>simply check TileOffsBy ... Track and Direction
13:36<SmatZ>however is that function called
13:36<SmatZ>if next tile for incoming train is the same tile with that signal
13:36<SmatZ>anyone is going to fix that?
13:37<SmatZ>btw it could also check v->owner
13:37<@Rubidium>SmatZ: you?
13:37<SmatZ>Rubidium: if anyone else isn't, then I am :)
13:50<SmatZ>hmm CheckVehicleAtSignal() isn't working perfectly with wormholes and depots
13:52<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... i'm afraid that was a train too much for my single track branch line...
13:52<Eddi|zuHause2>i need shunting...
13:53<Wolf01>I need to remove AI unused roads without cheating
13:53<Yexo>without cheating <- why without cheating?
13:54<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01: buy them out ;)
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13:56<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: are your maps downloadable btw.?
13:56<Eddi|zuHause2>why would they?
13:57<Ammler>well, you have some nice sceneries sometimes :-)
13:57<Eddi|zuHause2>you would have nothing to load them anyway
14:05<Wolf01>Eddi, no! I don't want their crappy roads, only remove them :D
14:11<SmatZ>http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/fs2162a.diff FS#2162 ...
14:12<Eddi|zuHause2>where would i start to look for the line that removes cargo from a station when it waits too long?
14:13<@Rubidium>in cargopacket.h
14:13<frosch123>go to station_base.h, look where the rating for the cargo is stored, and grep for that
14:13<Eddi|zuHause2>no, not the rating
14:16<Eddi|zuHause2>void UpdateCargoStatus(Station *st, CargoID cargo_type) <- that might sound interesting
14:16<Eddi|zuHause2>no...
14:16<@Rubidium>I'd say CargoList::Truncate is more interesting
14:16<Eddi|zuHause2>that's about the destinations it appears
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14:21<Eddi|zuHause2> (rating -= 90, waiting > 1500) || <-- what happened to if()?
14:23<frosch123>never look at DrawTrackBits :p
14:23<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: not needed
14:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13806 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2162]: checking for train waiting at other side of two-way signal was broken
14:23<Eddi|zuHause2>frosch123: i'm afraid i have already done this in the past :p
14:26<Yorick>SmatZ: define 'other side', please
14:27<SmatZ>Yorick: ?
14:27<Yorick>": could you"
14:27<Yorick> other side of two-way signal was broken
14:28<SmatZ>Yorick: sorry I don't understand what you don't understand
14:28<SmatZ>maybe I missed "the" :-x
14:28<Yorick>ah, that way
14:28<Yorick>I understand now :)
14:28<SmatZ>:)
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14:41<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13807 /trunk/src/group_cmd.cpp: -Fix: memory leak when loading groups.
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15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>"warning: suggest parentheses around && within ||" <- who enabled that kind of warning?
15:09<ln>not me
15:09<@Rubidium>gcc?
15:10<@Rubidium>we haven't explicitly enabled it
15:10<Eddi|zuHause2>gcc 4.3 i think
15:11<Eddi|zuHause2>> gcc --version
15:11<Eddi|zuHause2>gcc (SUSE Linux) 4.3.1 20080507 (prerelease) [gcc-4_3-branch revision 135036]
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15:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13808 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: cleanup AIAirport a bit by introducing IsValidAirportType (Yexo)
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16:13<fjb>Hello
16:15<Chrill>jellu
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16:20<nicfer>is there a separate channel for opengfx+
16:20<nicfer>opengfx?*
16:20<nicfer>or it's OK to talk about it here?
16:22<Yexo>afaik, there is no seperate channel for it
16:22<Eddi|zuHause2>i have never heard of one
16:22<Eddi|zuHause2>and they are too dark
16:22<Tim>And since not much is happening here, i guess you can talk about it :D
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16:29<ln>so, proceed
16:36<Tim>I like the graphics, well, except for a few.
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16:42<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13809 /trunk/src/ai/ai.cpp: -Fix: memory leak each time a "new ai" got (re)started.
16:44<ln>please state the nature of the medical emergency
16:45<@Rubidium>I get depressed when a savegame with opengfx landscape gets loaded
16:46<ln>sounds bad
16:46<ln>can we have a screenshot of opengfx landscape?
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16:49<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb had some, i believe
16:50<fjb>Who? Me? What?
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16:51<Eddi|zuHause2>yes
16:53<fjb>The fields are too dark: http://www.myimg.de/?img=BergTal17Aug19566d1c9.png
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16:55<fjb>And I'm missing the bales of straw.
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16:55<Eddi|zuHause2>the grass is also too dark, and the track base...
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16:59<Tim>Well, at first sight it looked ugly to me, too, but if you play a little bit with it, you'll love it :)
17:00<Tim>http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unbenanntto6.png
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17:04<fjb>http://www.myimg.de/?img=NorthernInc12Feb198655232.png
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17:10<nicfer>the full opengfx pak is outdated, could I update it from scratch?
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17:15<Tim>Well, it would be really cool if you could update it and find out which of the smaller .grfs (eg newBuoys or Transmitter) are included in big grfs like landscape or terrain etc...
17:16<fjb>They are already included.
17:17<Tim>those were examples, there are a lot of those...
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17:26<Ammler>hmm, it isn't outdated
17:27<Ammler>it does just miss the newest 3 grfs, like houses, ships and bridges.
17:27<Ammler>or do I miss something?
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17:43<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13810 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp tar_type.h): -Fix: small memory leak when tar files would be found.
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17:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13811 /branches/0.6/ (9 files in 4 dirs):
17:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
17:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Several minor memory leaks. They only happened once per game (r13809, 13810)
17:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Checking for train waiting at other side of two-way signal was broken [FS#2162] (r13806)
17:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Some revision checking code was unintentionally disabled (r13776)
17:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Enforce the validity of a NetworkAction (chat packet) issued by a client (r13775)
17:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Selecting non-full length vehicles in the depot gui would place the "mouse pointer" out of the center of the vehicle making it hard to "aim" [FS#2147] (r13759)
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18:13<Ammler>not possible anymore to create a new company with -n ?
18:14<Ammler>if you started earlier with address#1, it created the company, if it didn't exist, now you got a alert.
18:15<Ammler>(a protocol error was made...)
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18:21<blathijs>Ammler: Could it be that the server and client version aren't exactly the same?
18:22<Wolf01>'night
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18:24<Ammler>blathijs: no, I can join with address#255
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18:24<Ammler>or after someone created the company over gui...
18:25<Ammler>do you remove support for joining foreign rev with -n?
18:26<Ammler>that might be a side-bug then :-)
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18:28<Yexo>Ammler: I think they did, the code was change to check IsValidPlayer(player_id) if you use -n, but you might have to check that
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18:29<Ammler>also tried with 254
18:29<Ammler>it does exit with that
18:29<Ammler>well, 254 wouldn't solve the problem
18:30<Ammler>it worked quite well before...
18:31<+glx>Ammler: but now players are in a pool
18:31<+glx>some checks may need an update
18:32<Ammler>well, then bugreport isn't needed, I guess, we will wait until that is finished?
18:35<+glx>are you using latest trunk?
18:35<Ammler>tonigths bightly
18:35<Ammler>n
18:37<+glx>r13754+ ?
18:38<Ammler>13800
18:39<+glx>@openttd commit 13754
18:39<@DorpsGek>glx: Commit by rubidium :: r13754 trunk/src/openttd.cpp (2008-07-20 13:29:59 UTC)
18:39<@DorpsGek>glx: -Fix (r13731): one could not join companies from the command line.
18:39<+glx>weird as it is supposed to be fixed
18:39<Ammler>glx: yes, that is
18:39<Ammler>I can join a existing company
18:40<Ammler>but before the change, we created a new company if the requested one didn't exist
18:40<+glx>hmm that's a deeper thing
18:42<Ammler>:-) might be
18:43<Ammler>but I hope it is solveable
18:43<Ammler>we realized there are also some players which have created shortcuts on the desktop with -n
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18:44<Ammler>so it takes some time until the first joines the "old" way :-)
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18:48<Ammler>blathijs: just tried what happens if I join with wrong version
18:49<Ammler>then you got a msg, that you have the wrong version, so that is something else..
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18:55<blathijs>Ammler: Ah, I thought that would trigger a protocol error as well
18:56<Ammler>I grep everytime from -h before I start ottd if it is the same rev as the server
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19:01<nicfer>the full opengfx pak is outdated, could I update it from scratch?
19:02<Yexo>nicfer: you're better of asking that in some thread at the forums
19:03<Ammler>nicfer: which of the GRFs is outdated?
19:05<Ammler>Yexo: if truebrain makes commits with your name in brackets, did you make the patch or "just" suggestion?
19:05<Yexo>the patch
19:06<Ammler>so do quite some work for it :-)
19:06<Yexo>i create a patch, TrueBrain / glx / Rubidium reads it, makes comments, I fix, etc..
19:06<Ammler>:-)
19:06-!-einKarl [~einKarl@91-65-196-232-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:06<Yexo>most of it are things I need to improve my AI
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19:07<Ammler>so you have some insider advantages :-P
19:07<Yexo>the api code is free for everyone to read :)
19:07<Ammler>:-)
19:07<Yexo>but I have good knownledge about all api functions yes :)
19:07<+glx>and everyone can implement missing stuff too
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19:08<Yexo>glx: yex, but nobody does
19:08<Ammler>the ai has still no drive through support currently?
19:08<Yexo>my ai not, the api has
19:09<Ammler>well, some of my coop mates don't like them anyway :-)
19:10<Ammler>but that is not needed: http://www.tt-forums.net/styles/ott/imageset/icon_post_target.gif
19:10<Ammler>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=711117#p711117
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19:10<Yexo>there were quite a lot of bugs in v7/v8, I hope I fixed most of them in v9, but I want to test more (takes a lot of time) to be sure before the next match
19:11<Ammler>I tried with such things too, but didn't reach success.
19:11<Yexo>Ammler: I thought so, but I didn't test it myself
19:11<Yexo>maybve you want to reply with a link to the openttdcoop blog
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19:12<Ammler>there is something new since I played last time with RV
19:13<Ammler>you can now use drive through as waypoints
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19:13<Ammler>so you can "trigger" the time, when the RV should chose the lading bay better...
19:15<Yexo>Ammler: only if you use timetables :)
19:15<Ammler>do you have a playable save of the 5k game?
19:16<Yexo>nope
19:16<Yexo>busy implementing saveload code for AIs now
19:16<Ammler>no, I meant somethning else
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19:16<Ammler>the RV choses the bay for unloading when it leaves the lading bay, right?
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19:17<Yexo>no idea
19:17<Yexo>possible, but I don't think so
19:17<Eddi|zuHause2>i think it's more like within 10 tiles radius
19:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13812 /branches/noai/src/industry_cmd.cpp: [NoAI] -Add: let AI know when an industry is accidentally closed
19:18<Eddi|zuHause2>and making a pathfinder choice
19:18<Ammler>hmm, but then how do you explain, why they chose all the same sometimes
19:18<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't
19:19<Yexo>Ammler: I can't. You'll have to ask someone with more pf knowledge
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19:21<Ammler>Yexo: you should try big transfer stations
19:21<Ammler>at least as a option...
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19:22<Yexo>I'll try that sometime, but such things arent as easy as they sound
19:23<Ammler>:-)
19:23<Ammler>well, I would also like to see, how your ai works against a newbie
19:23<Ammler>I am sure, it would win.
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19:24<Yexo>define newbie: someone who knows how the game works or someonen completely new to openttd / ttd
19:24<Ammler>new to mp
19:25<Yexo>that still doesn't say everything
19:25<Yexo>but I guess they could win with planes or some long train lines
19:25<Yexo>depends a lot on the map
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19:25<Yexo>I guess the AI would win on 256^2 with high industries and high towns
19:25<Ammler>everyone can win with planes,
19:26<Ammler>that is a balancing issue
19:26<+glx>highly dependant on landscape too
19:26<Yexo>but winning with RV against admiralai isn't possible for a newbie
19:26<Yexo>on a 'normal' (= not very rough) map
19:27<Ammler>well, we also need to check that
19:27<Ammler>we won with trains...
19:27<Yexo>find someone new to #openttdcoop to test a game ;)
19:27<Ammler>with fast trains
19:28<Ammler>now?
19:28<Yexo>another time
19:28<Ammler>:-)
19:28<Yexo>I'm busy coding now ;)
19:28<Ammler>well, you don't need to be there
19:28<Ammler>we play against your ai :P
19:29<Yexo>I'd like to see the match of course :)
19:29<Ammler>I asked you already, what you have done on last game
19:30<Yexo>nothing?
19:30<Ammler>didn't you do more on the 2. game?
19:30<Yexo>no
19:30<Yexo>only fixed some rail/ road crossings
19:30<Ammler>ah, that was you?
19:30<Yexo>yep :)
19:30<Ammler>Osai: once asked who that was :-9
19:31<Yexo>didn't notice that
19:31<Ammler>he was wondering that the ai was that kind.
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19:31<Yexo>it's not about being kind, but about preventing crashes
19:31<Yexo>because wiht a crash, the stations ratings drop 63%
19:32<Ammler>yeah noticed that too
19:32<Ammler>also for the train station
19:32<Yexo>yep
19:33<Ammler>and v9 does that now automatically?
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19:35<Ammler>didn't check
19:35<Yexo>no, it doesn't
19:35<Ammler>was your ai all the time on the money limit?
19:35<Yexo>yep
19:35<Yexo>but it made less money then you
19:35<Ammler>we had problems to spent all the money :-)
19:36<Yexo>in fact, it doesn't check existing routes at all, so an easy way to cheat is build a road, wait till there are road vehicles from the AI on it, and remove the road again
19:37<Ammler>I wouldn't like to win that way
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19:39<Ammler>well then, time for something else
19:39<Ammler>good night all
19:39<Yexo>good night Ammler
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19:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13813 /branches/noai/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange: added AI_BroadcastEvent() to reduce code duplication
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19:55<nicfer>is the opengfx all in one pack updated?
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20:15<nicfer>that opengfxpack only has got 10 files
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20:44<nicfer>any chances to split newterrain into normal opengfx and opengfx+?
20:49<Eddi|zuHause3>i have absolutely no clue what any of your questions mean...
20:49<Yexo>nicfer: As I said before, you're better of asking those question in the openttd graphic sections of tt-forums.net
21:04<nicfer>why openttd forums doesn't load for me?
21:04<+glx>btw terrain will never be an opengfx+ as it doesn't need more than action A
21:06<nicfer>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Advanced_Graphics_Replacement_Features says it has got the temperate snow and complete shore line features, and I don't think them use only action A
21:07<+glx>but they still can be used as static newgrf
21:07<+glx>opengfx+ cannot
21:08<nicfer>that page is about opengfx+
21:08<nicfer>newterrain is in it, so it's opengfx+
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21:22<nicfer>newbuildings.grf was detected as unsafe for newgrf-static
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21:33<+glx>that's ok as it's not a simple replacement
21:35<Lakie>shore lines would be an action5, nicfer?
21:49<nicfer>shore lines not, but that's on newterrain AFAIK
21:49<nicfer>not newbuildings
21:50<Lakie>Action 5 type 0D " Coast Tile graphics"
21:50<Lakie>I should know, I designed diagonal flooding
21:51<Eddi|zuHause3>there are different methods for shore graphics replacement
21:51<Lakie>Aye, but for the ones in OpenGFX
21:51<Lakie>Its the action5 as they use lakku's curvy style last I checked
21:51<Lakie>lepkka*
21:53<nicfer>but the one that doesn't load as static is newbuildings
21:53<Lakie>It wouldn't
21:53<Lakie>As glx said they aren't simple replacements.
21:53<Lakie>You could replace the graphics with an actionA surely though?
21:54<Lakie>(Assuming you are changing only the graphics)?
22:06<nicfer>but it's mentionated on the opengfx page, not opengfx+'s
22:06<Lakie>I don't know, to be honest.
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 24 00:00:40 2008