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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-07-29

---Logopened Tue Jul 29 00:00:25 2008
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02:24<@peter1138>Rubidium, I have no idea.
02:25<@peter1138>lol @ 13863
02:39<Celestar>peter1138: morning
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02:56<@peter1138>Celestar: I added an order at the beginning of a list, then removed it. Then I deleted the whole list.
02:57<@peter1138>routing.cpp:422: void Routing_t::ProcessOrderListRemoval(const Order*): Assertion `order->prev == __null' failed.
02:57<@peter1138>Aborted
02:58<@peter1138>If I add an order at the beginning of the list, then delete the whole list, it doesn't crash, but I'm left with a route left in the network.
03:00<Celestar>peter1138: checking
03:02<Celestar>peter1138: confirmed
03:10-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
03:14<Celestar>peter1138: found possible reason
03:17<Celestar>peter1138: SwapOrders is EVIL
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03:23<@peter1138>:o
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03:28<Celestar>very very very evil
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03:46<Celestar>peter1138: :S
03:52<CIA-5>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13865 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Codechange: Use case-insensitive sort for NewGRF list.
04:11<Celestar>peter1138: this is crap
04:11<@peter1138>Which bit?
04:11<Celestar>peter1138: the bits which swap orders
04:12<Celestar>peter1138: because then basically the orders stay the same, but the indices are swapped
04:12<Celestar>from a Routing point of view
04:12<@peter1138>Oh dear.
04:13<Celestar>peter1138: there is of course an easy way around, but it's not elegant
04:15<Celestar>peter1138: when we change the head order, Remove the whole damn order list, modify it, and then add it again
04:16-!-flowOver [~J@S01060016e65abad7.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd
04:20<@peter1138>Remove SwapOrder?
04:21-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B8029A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!]
04:23<Celestar>and retain the index?
04:23<@peter1138>It's not nice for IDs to change, heh...
04:24<Celestar>peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/routenetwork_pathfind.diff <= that's a working one
04:27<@peter1138>Ok. That's probably less work...
04:28<Celestar>aye
04:30*Celestar still wonders how to generate passengers
04:30<ln>a woman is required
04:31*Celestar laughs
04:31-!-plakkertjes [~plakkertj@ip51cc357e.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd
04:32<flowOver>is openttd worth jailbreaking my iphone? does it run well?
04:32<Lachie>why is ubuntu's recognition of my soundcard epic failure
04:32<Lachie>xD
04:35<Celestar>flowOver: jailbreaking?
04:36<flowOver>opening it up for 3rd party apps
04:37<@peter1138>Be aware there is no official version for iPhone.
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04:41<flowOver>in oss, what exactly constitutes official? the iphone ver's source is still released
04:42<ln>official = made by Bjarni
04:42<blathijs>flowOver: Not released by the main OpenTTD dev team
04:42<blathijs>flowOver: And also not built from the exact same source as the official releases, I think
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04:47<@peter1138>S
04:47<@peter1138>Some form of collaboration would be nice.
04:50<@peter1138>Celestar: Generate passengers... properly or randomly?
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04:57<ln>cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk ...
04:57<ln>is that the local maximum of hostname length?
05:00<Celestar>peter1138: properly
05:01<Celestar>peter1138: I was thinking about this: We generate n passengers and distribute them to all reachable destination stations by station size (counted in population in coverage area) and distance (not physical but routing distance).
05:02<@peter1138>Hmm, I just applied the s60 port patches... and it starts quicker...
05:03<Celestar>total = 0; for_all_reachable_stations(st) {total += size(st) / distance(st)}; for_all_reachable_stations(st) { new cargopacket, size(cargopacket) = size(st)/distance(st) / total, destination(cargopacket) = st. }
05:04<Celestar>summin like dis
05:05<Celestar>er .. replace the first "for_all_reachable_stations" by "for_all_station" or "for_all_towns"
05:05<Celestar>hm .. doesn'T really matter anyway :P
05:06<Celestar>peter1138: comments?
05:06<Celestar>(we need a minimum distance that we take into account, otherwise we run into a singularity for very close stations. I suggest the min distance is the town influence radius
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05:09<Celestar>peter1138: why doesn't "hg up" not work :o
05:09<@peter1138>hg pull; hg update;
05:10<Celestar>oh pull :P
05:11<Celestar>awesome
05:11<Celestar>hm .. I should import FixedT
05:11<Celestar>we could make use of it during generation
05:12<Celestar>er error :P
05:13<Celestar>peter1138: ProcessOrderListRemoval doesn't use v->type :D (order_cmd.cpp:808)
05:14<@peter1138>Oh... bodged update :p
05:14<Celestar>peter1138: please correct, I wanna see the map :D
05:15<Celestar>hm ... fixedt.h is 430 lines
05:15<@peter1138>Done.
05:15<@peter1138>And certainly the map is a useful debug tool ;)
05:15<Celestar>yeah
05:16<Celestar>very very very useful
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05:29<Celestar>hm
05:30<Brianetta>hm?
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05:34<Celestar>Note to self: never ever change cargopacket.h :P
05:34<@peter1138>:)
05:34<@peter1138>Oh yeah, I didn't commit that bit yet.
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05:44<blathijs>Hm?
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05:55<@peter1138>The bit that adds destinations, but only random.
05:55<@peter1138>Oh, that's why it's faster. My other build was a debug build...
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06:05<Celestar>back in a few
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06:23<mucht_work>Celestar: http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/biblio/bibtex/contrib/babelbib/
06:23<mucht_work>this could help you
06:24<Celestar>mucht_work: thanks :D
06:24<Celestar>peter1138: have found more bugs. fixing
06:27<CIA-5>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13866 /trunk/src/ (signs.cpp signs_func.h signs_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Use sortlist for sign windows
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06:39<Celestar>peter1138: I have a number of fixes, do you want a full diff?
06:39<Celestar>peter1138: or just the changes?
06:39<@peter1138>Just the changes if you have them...
06:40<@peter1138>Though I've only mucked it up once ;)
06:40<Celestar>ok I'll try to got through the slace
06:40<Celestar>slack*
06:41<@peter1138>It's no problem for me to make a diff containing the changes
06:42<Celestar>yeah, but I'm already playing around with the packet generation and I'll try to keep that crap away from you :P
06:43<Celestar>peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/update.diff <= please reverse apply
06:46<Celestar>I somehow did it the wrong way around
06:54<Brianetta>patch will detect that and offer to reverse it
06:54<Celestar>I hope so :D
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06:59<Celestar>peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/display.png :D
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07:03<Noldo>btw. does it route passangers that are in the same place going to same place, but coming from different places separately
07:06<Celestar>separately as in what?
07:06<Noldo>like running the pathfinding multiple times
07:07<@peter1138>Celestar: Yeah, I did that bit ;)
07:10<Celestar>peter1138: it's not bad, but notices that it has a "from" :D
07:11<@peter1138>Hmm?
07:13<Celestar>er.
07:13<Celestar>a "to:"
07:13<@peter1138>Ah... yes, I added that too ;)
07:13<Celestar>so why did I just re-add it? :P
07:14<@peter1138>Cos I hadn't committed it and you wanted it now? ;)
07:16<Celestar>kind of :P
07:16<Celestar>hm .. the passengers are not deboarding the right way
07:20<@peter1138>Let me commit this.
07:24<Celestar>commit what?
07:25<@peter1138>You changes, then my stuff
07:25<@peter1138>Done now.
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07:30<Celestar>nice nice
07:30<SpComb>AmmlerForDih... someone's writing some IRC code to handle NICK?
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07:36<@peter1138>Celestar: Some of it is a bit shit, but as it's not trunk... ;)
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07:42<Celestar>peter1138: not YET
07:49<@peter1138>Yay, 100% transport rating ;)
07:50<Noldo>what did you do?
07:52<Celestar>transport_rating = 100; ?
07:52<@Rubidium>advertise?
07:53<@peter1138>Built a statue.
07:54<SmatZ>is there any reason why I can't destroy my own statue? (except that it was this way in TTD)
07:55<Celestar>meh
07:55<Celestar>have to mess around with the whole cargolist thingy
07:55<@peter1138>Yup
07:55<Celestar>I'll leave that to you I guess (=
07:56<@peter1138>Well I *haven't* done that bit yet ;)
07:56<Celestar>peter1138: why are we not just moving the cargopacket pointers around?
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07:58<@peter1138>Cos you need to unload in small pieces
07:58<@peter1138>And so that combining packets is automatic
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08:03<@peter1138>What've you got?
08:04<Celestar>peter1138: just a sec, I'm getting there
08:04<Celestar>it's ugly ugly ugly tho
08:09<Celestar>the unloading part seems to work allright
08:09<Celestar>I somehow need selective loading now
08:12<Celestar>peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/routenetwork_unload.diff <= something like thia
08:12<Celestar>this*
08:12<Celestar>work in progress however
08:12<Celestar>are you on on this? I've got to do some stuff for an hour or two
08:12*peter1138 grabs it
08:13<Celestar>just keep posting your changed every 30 minutes so that I can pull then here and there :P
08:14<Celestar>changes*
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08:25<Celestar>peter1138: if (!cp->paid_for && (front_v->current_order.GetUnloadType() & OUFB_TRANSFER || !Routing->UseVehicle(front_v, cp->target, true)) != 0) {
08:25<Celestar>peter1138: operator != at wrong place (=
08:25<Celestar>sorry :D
08:25<hylje>operator =(
08:26<Noldo>sad clown
08:26<hylje>why so serious
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08:30<Celestar>peter1138: about the random generator maybe we should 1) limit it to CT_PASSENGERS for the moment and 2) limit it to reachable stations (CanReachStationFrom(st->index, target))
08:31<Celestar>2) should happen anyway
08:36<Celestar>otherwise we'll have the stations clogged up with orphaned and/or objectless cargopackets
08:37<Brianetta>peter1138: For manual train control to be really decent we need YAPP, and to have YAPP able to reserve two blocks. (:
08:37<Celestar>manual train control?!
08:37*Brianetta wants to be able to perform a handbrake turn in a train
08:38<hylje>multitrack drifting
08:39<Brianetta>If your loco pulled off a decent 180°, the rolling stock would perform an amazing whiplash
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08:40<Brianetta>but yeah, peter1138 has in the past managed to effectively duplicate the manual control feature that Locomotion has
08:40<Brianetta>With an upgraded signalling system it might be possible to maintain a decent speed through a signal
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08:41<Celestar>Yapp can do that by itself
08:44<Brianetta>no
08:45<Brianetta>It doesn't give you a path until you reach the signal
08:45<Brianetta>so you have to stop for the red anyway
08:45<Brianetta>Sure, it goes green while you're there, and you can pull away safely
08:45<Brianetta>whereas before you couldn't, because every other train got a green too
08:45<Brianetta>and the first to go got it
08:49<@peter1138>Hmm, I keep getting cargo to station 65535 :o
08:49<Brianetta>That's the one before 0
08:50<@peter1138>Ahh...
08:50<Celestar>peter1138: got that too
08:51<Celestar>peter1138: cargopacket.cpp about 220
08:52<@peter1138>cp_new ?
08:52<@peter1138>I see.
08:52<Celestar>the destination needs to be copied over there
08:53<@peter1138>Yup, better :D
08:53<@peter1138>Until it crashed.
08:54<Celestar>:P
08:54<Celestar>peter1138: hm .. maybe we should have two debug levels. routing and cargopacket or something :)
08:54<@peter1138>Hmm, to is now 20, with only 5 stations :D
08:54<@peter1138>I guess my random thingy does not work very well
08:56<Celestar>peter1138: use my a little-less-random thingy?
08:56<Celestar>or ideas from it :P
08:56<@peter1138>Yeah
08:56<@peter1138>I shall
08:59*Celestar goes installing KDE4.1
08:59<hylje>i like the concept of passengers going to truly random places
09:00<Celestar>hylje: well, if the random place is non-exsiting ...
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09:00<Celestar>people tend to go to places the exist :P
09:00<hylje>yep, but given normal life travel is fairly systematic, e.g. work->home->work
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09:02<fonso>Are you working on some kind of cargo/pax destinations scheme?
09:02<fonso>I'm just investigating that, too.
09:02<Celestar>fonso: er yeah. peter1138 and I have been working on it for the past week or seomthing
09:02<fonso>So which way are you going?
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09:03<hylje>random
09:03<hylje>to a station connected to the current location
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09:03<fonso>You precalculate the routes when the pax or cargo is generated?
09:03<fonso>Or are you following my proposal?
09:03<hylje>a random passenger destination is a good system in itself
09:04<Celestar>fonso: what proposal? (=
09:04<Celestar>fonso: I've been working on the internal representation of routes mostly
09:04<fonso>In the economy and valancing thread
09:04<Brianetta>Better than Simutrans' idea of a packet wanting to go somewhere that was almost certainly off your grid
09:05<Brianetta>A passenger turning up will only have a reachable destination in mind
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09:05<hylje>but i'd myself also make a deterministic destination generator based on commutes (nearby suburb stations and industrial/commercial stations have a lot of traffic going between them)
09:06<hylje>actually
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09:06<hylje>that might as well be random, just with a large bias towards near-ness
09:06<Brianetta>I once had a circuit of rapid passenger trains draining a city into an oil rig
09:07<fonso>So you basically reimplement the idea of the last paxdest patch with some tweaked params.
09:07<hylje>maybe so. i havent kept up
09:07<fonso>Correct?
09:07<hylje>the smaller the town areas involved the less people go long distances
09:07<fonso>Well, my proposal was to get rid of precalculated routes altogether and assign a "weight" for each cargo to each station and vehicle
09:08<hylje>go on
09:08<fonso>Cargo is transferred according to the weight
09:08<fonso>If a station has a high weight a high percentage of a vehicles cargo will be unloaded there
09:08<fonso>and the other way round
09:09<hylje>weight is gained from volume of traffic?
09:09<hylje>for stations
09:09<fonso>Weight is calculated based on the number of houses near a station and the number of vehicles serviceing it (for stations) ...
09:09<@Belugas>hello boyz
09:09<hylje>allo ya git
09:09<fonso>and based on the added weights of the serviced stations (for vehicles)
09:09<hylje>fonso: sounds pretty complex to me
09:10<fonso>Why?
09:10<hylje>well i just can't seem to wrap my head around the exact machinery involved
09:10<hylje>weight calc algorithms namely
09:11<fonso>OK, let me rephrase it ...
09:11<fonso>Assume one cargo for now: only passengers
09:11<Celestar>People wish to go from a Point A to a Point B. They make up their minds (normally) before turning up at A.
09:11<fonso>No, they don't have minds
09:11<Noetloj>[14:11] <Celestar> People wish to go from a Point A to a Point B. They make up their minds (normally) before turning up at A. <-- I don't!
09:12<Noetloj>I just bus ride around the districts my day ticket is valid in most of the times I use buses.
09:12<fonso>People show up at a station and everytime a vehicle comes by they throw a dice to find out if they enter it
09:12<Noetloj>and just bus hop all over West Yorkshire.
09:12<hylje>you have no life
09:12<Brianetta>Celestar: Station weighting is still an improvement on everybody getting off because they can
09:12<Noetloj>true.
09:12<Celestar>Brianetta: certainly
09:12<Celestar>Brianetta: but peter1138 and I try to do it right :P
09:12<fonso>the dice is biased by the weight of the vehicle
09:12<Noetloj>Won't it make it stupidly hard to make money, if passengers only go to the place they want to? :|
09:13<fonso>uh, which concept are we discussing now?
09:13<hylje>randomized passenger packets to available destinations in network
09:13<fonso>well, that's not mine .. I'll shut up for now
09:13<Celestar>Noetloj: that's why it will be optional (=
09:13<Noetloj>ooooh
09:13<Noetloj>Challenge is good though :p
09:14<hylje>yeah, one can haul coal instead
09:14<Celestar>hylje: who said that coal cannot have destinations?
09:14<hylje>well yeah..
09:14<Brianetta>Noetloj: Stupidly hard? no. It does mean that you can have an unpopular route.
09:14<Brianetta>Means you need to make business decisions (:
09:15<Noetloj>OPENTTD = SERIOUS BUSINESS?
09:15<hylje>and maybe read the environment for some more clues
09:15<Brianetta>and your express trains are more than just an expression of variety
09:15<Celestar>and currently the game is stupidly easy :D
09:15<Noetloj>zomg, OpenTTD is turning into the internets! (srs business)
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09:15<hylje>no tough guys yet
09:15<Noetloj>oh
09:16<Brianetta>There's so much more to go in: timetables (as in, timetables, not this train spacer thing), detachable locos with marshalling yards, fares...
09:16<hylje>incoming awesome
09:16<Brianetta>While a train's slowly being filled with coal I could be using that loco elsewhere...
09:16<Gekz>Celestar: you willpwn the gamee with this
09:16<Gekz>I WLIKE TYUPOS
09:17<hylje>Gekz: the game
09:17<Brianetta>Breaking a passenger train into two to service a branch line in addition to the main route
09:17<hylje>good use for multiple units
09:17<hylje>free locos
09:18<fonso>hylje: perhaps you want to read the last section of this posthttp://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=29683&sid=c8e9a8065c549e38a0c2cec9b09bfcc1&start=204:
09:19<hylje>Open Supply Chain TD
09:20<fonso>What is TD?
09:20<hylje>(as opposed to OpenTTD)
09:21<fonso>If you want to call it that ...
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09:21<Celestar>Brianetta: this is not a simulation tool for a real railway company :P
09:21<hylje>well, given a very elaborate economy system it's really a different game
09:21<Brianetta>Celestar: yet.
09:22<Brianetta>Things can get better.
09:22<Gekz>let's add a stock exchange
09:22<Gekz>!
09:22<Brianetta>There is one
09:23<Brianetta>only transport companies are traded on it, though
09:23<hylje>(i'd however enjoy a highly elaborated TTD-esque economy game)
09:24<Brianetta>Couldn't give a fig about the economy. Track first, trains second, operations of the latter on the former third.
09:25<Gekz>hylje: pokemon
09:25<dih>hey! hylje is alive :-)
09:25<hylje>omg
09:25*hylje hides
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09:26<Brianetta>DaleStan (:
09:26<fonso>I guess you don't like my proposal then, hylje?
09:26<hylje>some parts of it are good, but i'd not go about doing it as it is
09:27<fonso>I'll focus on something else then and see what you do about paxdest.
09:27<hylje>small things are best
09:28<fonso>I'll do station capacities then
09:28<fonso>Did you see my resurrection of diagonal levelling and demolishing?
09:29<hylje>station capacities would be good, given newgrf cargo can make industries limited in stockpile/efficiency as well
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09:30<hylje>bonus points for allowing newgrf station tiles to specify capacity (if they don't already)
09:30<fonso>They don't. They only specify some capacities for their animations
09:30<fonso>And that's not based on tiles, I think
09:31<fonso>btw: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=38148
09:31<fonso>I know there are some open questions
09:32<fonso>Specifically it collides with drag and draw and it uses CTRL, which someone told me you don't like
09:32<hylje>two types of dynamite/terraforming then?
09:33<fonso>Yes, one diagonal and one orthogonal
09:34<fonso>It helps when you want to build diagonal track
09:34<fonso>That was a pain before
09:35<hylje>you can remove track with autorail
09:35<fonso>But what if you want to build diagonal track through a hilly area
09:35<fonso>and need to flatten the hills
09:35<hylje>granted
09:35<Brianetta>flatten hills, ahha
09:36*hylje wouldnt mind a bedrock feature either :-)
09:36<fonso>Well my English isn't the best obviously
09:36<Brianetta>I think that destroying the landscape should cause such a ferocious public backlash that your stations are appalling for a century
09:36<fonso>But I'm happy you're having fun
09:36<fonso>:)
09:36<Brianetta>long enough for those who remember to die off
09:38<fonso>That problem should not be countered by making it enormously annoying to level land
09:38<Celestar>diagonal leveling would be really helpful
09:39<fonso>Well, look at my patch, decide, give me feedback, if needed. I'm sure it's not that hard to get it done
09:42<Celestar>fonso: poke me tomorrow about it please
09:42<fonso>ok
09:43<Noetloj>...christ.
09:44<Noetloj>ctrl + g = 128Mb PNG.
09:44<Celestar>heh
09:44<Celestar>what map size?
09:44<Noetloj>1024 by 1024 I think
09:44<Noetloj>and paint refuses to open it lol
09:45<Noetloj>and it crashes QuickTime picture viewer.
09:45<SmatZ>uncompressed it can have several GBs
09:45<SpComb>presumeably so
09:45*SpComb was pondering implementing something to handle gigapixel PNGs some day
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09:59<Celestar>peter1138: what's up with the hg web serveR?
10:02<Celestar>er
10:02<Celestar>am I still connected?
10:05<@peter1138>Oh, it stopped :o
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10:05<@peter1138>Back
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10:09<Celestar>oh
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10:13<Celestar>peter1138: any idea about the selective load?
10:13<hylje>what?
10:16<@peter1138>Working on it.
10:17<Celestar>peter1138: have you looked at how the other patch did it?
10:18*Celestar wonders what prevents YAPP from being included at the moment
10:20<@peter1138>Rubidium had some performance concerns.
10:21<Celestar>I've tried with a 300-Train game and I still spent most of the time in the TileLoop and the Blitter
10:21<Celestar>profiling didn't reveal any noticable impact of yapp
10:23<@Rubidium>peter1138: seems to be solved in the later versions
10:23<@peter1138>That's good news :D
10:23<Celestar>go go go :D
10:26<Celestar>why do we have ZERO downloads on -RC1 and RC2 on sourceforge? counter borked?
10:27<@peter1138>Hmm, unselective... my vehicles don't load at all now :)
10:29<Celestar>uh oh :P
10:29<@peter1138>GetNextUnloadingOrder returns null
10:30<@peter1138>Hmm
10:30<@peter1138>Smells like my v is not the first vehicle :o
10:32<Celestar>:)
10:33<@peter1138>next and prev of v->current_order are 0...
10:33<Celestar>O_o
10:33<Celestar>only one order?
10:34<@peter1138>Ah...
10:34<@peter1138>Hmm, no
10:35<@peter1138>Right, it's a ship...
10:35<@peter1138>So there is no chain to be getting wrong :o
10:35<@peter1138>v->orders contains a next but not prev
10:36<@peter1138>v->current_order contains neither a next or a prev
10:38<@Rubidium>v->current_order might not even be in v->orders
10:38<@peter1138>Mmm, it can be a temporary thing, can't it?
10:38<@Rubidium>exactly
10:39<@peter1138>So I need to fix UseVehicle... hmm.
10:39<@Rubidium>can also be more than v->orders can contain
10:41<Celestar>peter1138: use v->orders[v->cur_order_index] ?
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10:41<@peter1138>Ok.
10:42<Celestar>(if I got this right)
10:42<Celestar>@openttd bugs
10:42<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Open Bugs: 41; Not assigned: 27; Closed this week: 14; Opened this week: 10
10:43<@Rubidium>but v->orders[v->cur_order_index] does only tell you the next scheduled stop, any intermediate stops won't be told
10:43<@Rubidium>or where you're currently loading/unloading
10:43<@peter1138>next scheduled stop is what we want.
10:45<@Rubidium>and ofcourse the next scheduled stop might change due to conditional orders ;)
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10:50<Celestar>Rubidium: we're not taking conditional orders into account at the moment.
10:50<Celestar>peter1138: but UseVehicle just needs a const Vehicle *
10:50<Celestar>doesn't it?
10:51*Celestar checkes his own code
10:53<Celestar>AH
10:53<Celestar>because it has current_order there
10:53<Celestar>sorry :(
10:54<Celestar>peter1138: I needa go in 5, could you post any usable update you have onto hg so I can pull them before I head out?
10:55<Celestar>I won't be back online before tomorrow morningish
11:00<@peter1138>It's not usable yet :o
11:00<@peter1138>It does sort of work though...
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11:00<@peter1138>Problem is it doesn't know where there is no more cargo to load, yet.
11:01<Celestar>so it keeps trying to load non-existing cargo?
11:01<@peter1138>Well, there is cargo there, but it shouldn't load it.
11:01*peter1138 checks that other patch ;)
11:02<@peter1138>Ah, right.
11:02<Avdg>hi, i want to learn the structure of openttd :)
11:02<@Belugas>Zirkoz thinks he has found a bug with oil wells :) they do not appear ingame, just during creation. I wonmder how long it's going to take him to understand why...
11:03<Celestar>Avdg: ok
11:03<Celestar>Avdg: what's the question :D
11:03<@Belugas>Avdg, the best way to do so is to look at the sources :)
11:03<Avdg>is there no tut for it :)
11:03<@Belugas>i guess he means tutorial...
11:03<@Belugas>if so, not really
11:03<Avdg>yeah... or some docs
11:03<Yexo>no, there is documentation however: http://docs.openttd.org/
11:04<Celestar>Avdg: the best way to do it is to either find a (small) feature you want to implement or a bug you want to fix. Start from there
11:04<Celestar>Avdg: only very few people can say that they understand the whole source
11:04<Avdg>:) thats a little to far
11:04<@Belugas>we try to document the sources, so it's a matter of reading and understanding
11:04<Celestar>docs.openttd.org can be of help as well
11:05<Avdg>im just learning c, i've not made any experience yet :s
11:05<Avdg>c++
11:05<Celestar>Avdg: well then have fun ask ask a question here and there (=
11:05<Celestar>not 10 per minute of possible ^^
11:05<Avdg>hopely :)
11:05<Celestar>peter1138: I gotta head out. might poke in quickly this evening. Not sure bout that
11:06<@peter1138>Okay
11:06<@peter1138>Have come up with a solution
11:06<@peter1138>Just implementing it.
11:06<Celestar>cool
11:06<Celestar>I'm eager to see it (=
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11:17<Avdg>i dont know really know how to start explower the code :)
11:18<Avdg>??? no main class
11:18<hylje>try openttd.c
11:19<hylje>(or .cpp nowadays..)
11:19<@peter1138>Correct, there's no main class.
11:20<Avdg>:)
11:20<Avdg>why not ?
11:22<+glx>because it comes from C time
11:22<Avdg>ow to difficult :)
11:23<@Belugas>what do you mean?
11:24<Avdg>nvm
11:24<@peter1138>Hmm, better.
11:28<@peter1138>Celestar, loading works, but transfers are not.
11:35<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13867 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Fix missing alignment
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11:48<Avdg>:s build problems, gonna read again the install guide
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11:51<@Belugas>how did you get the sources? with svn?
11:51<@Belugas>if not, you might try it :)
11:51<Avdg>source latest release
11:52<Avdg>it didnt files like windows.h
11:52<Avdg>finds
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11:57<Avdg>just errors becouse it doesn't find windows.h and winsock2.h
12:00<@Belugas>which means you have not the right installation. could be as simple as path definition, or not proper sdk downloads
12:00<Avdg>im looking up...
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12:02<@Belugas>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/FAQ_development#Now_I_have_got_the_source_code_how_can_I_compile_it.3F
12:02<@Belugas>might be helpfull :)
12:02<Lakie>Heh
12:03<Lakie>Compiling it on linux is much simplier than on windows for me.
12:03<Lakie>(Well, ubuntu)
12:03*Belugas nods
12:03<Lakie>Mainly because of the fact I need the latest DirectX SDK for my course and the Aug 07 for OpenTTD.
12:03<@Belugas>did it a couple of times, and it was soooo easier....
12:04<Lakie>sudo apt-get install <blah>; ./configure; ./make
12:04<Lakie>Well, just "make"
12:04<@Belugas>by the way, Lakie, i could not try your savegame, i forgot my SD key at work :(
12:04<Lakie>Its ok, not worries
12:04<Lakie>Oh
12:04<Lakie>That reminds me
12:04*Lakie tests something he just remembered
12:05<Lakie>Yeah, with your signal on bridges (yes I know its very wip), it crashes when I save a game and try to load it (obviously using the 'patched' version).
12:06<@Belugas>heheh.. of course :)
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12:06<@Belugas>if it does not work on trunk, it should not work with my patch either ;)
12:06<Lakie>I meant one from Open
12:07<Avdg>i think that i know what it is:)
12:07<Lakie>OpenTTD + (your patch) -> save, close, reload -> try loading (crash)
12:07<Avdg>i can find it, maybe wrong configuration
12:07<Lakie>Does OpenTTD on Windows need the platform sdk, Belugas?
12:08<@Belugas>it does for MSVC, at least
12:08*Lakie set it up to use it ages ago
12:08<+glx>[17:57:46] <Avdg> just errors becouse it doesn't find windows.h and winsock2.h <-- that means incorrect platform SDK installation
12:08<@Belugas>i think...
12:08<Lakie>Again I have it for my course.
12:08<@Belugas>not sure...
12:08*Lakie searchs for windows.h to find out
12:08<Lakie>:)
12:08<Avdg>wrong config... i take it like it was on the screenshot
12:08<Avdg>now it must be solved :)
12:09<@Belugas>have you searched on your HD for those files?
12:10<Lakie>Indeed, I remember now, MSVC++ (Express) doesn't include the files for windows.h etc
12:10<+glx>2008 express includes them
12:10<Avdg>there was a $ before, but i included them by hand
12:10<Lakie>Maybe, I know 2005 doesn't
12:10<Avdg>thats why it works :D
12:10<+glx>Lakie: btw I found a way to have worknig vista icons with 2005
12:10<Avdg>yeah, i have 2005
12:10<Lakie>:o
12:11<Lakie>Please do tell
12:11<+glx>just install a recent Platform SDK
12:11<Lakie>Really, that simple?
12:11<Lakie>Cool
12:11<+glx>yes
12:11<Avdg>i've installed it this month :)
12:11*Lakie hugs his Vista icon
12:11<Avdg>:)
12:12<Avdg>good4u
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12:12<+glx>Avdg: if you followed the wiki your platform SDK is too old ;)
12:12<Lakie>I think I'm the only person with 0.6.x with a vista sized icon
12:12<Lakie>Indeed, you should always search microsoft downloads for the latest.
12:13<Avdg>the wiki is right, only few configuration errors :)
12:13<Lakie>Heh
12:13<Avdg>i think
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12:13<Lakie>Well, the VS file I have has been customized quite a bit based around my sources and such
12:14<Avdg>just edit the $ from the sdk to a by hand set path
12:15<Lakie>I didn't allow any SDK's to create enviroment variables
12:15<Avdg>my editor is now generated the files
12:15<Lakie>I always set paths myself
12:15<Lakie>I find its much simplier.
12:16<Avdg>:)
12:16<@peter1138>Hmm, I never had to edit anything... I didn't know they *had* environment variables...
12:16<Lakie>Heh
12:16<Lakie>Well, there are three normal ways
12:17<Lakie>Environment paths.
12:17<Lakie>Gloabl paths added by VSVC when its first opened or later by the user and project paths/
12:17<Lakie>I use global for things like platofrm and directx (latest) and edit the project to look at the old directx sdk for its sound.
12:19<Lakie>Either way works, I know one of the sdk's I've used prefers environment variables for storing a path.
12:20<Avdg>why does microsoft at some stopid copyrights :s
12:21<Avdg>:) succeeded
12:22*glx just noticed 2008 express uses the new SDK I installed
12:22<+glx>I can remove v6.0a
12:23<Lakie>Hehehe
12:23<Avdg>why they are so many cod obj (etc) files :s
12:24<+glx>.cpp -> .cod (asm) -> .obj -> .exe
12:24<Avdg>ow :)
12:25<Lakie>I suppose that makes sense as it needs to become machine code bfore it can be packed into .obj files ready to be imported into the final exe.
12:25<Lakie>Of course my understanding of the process may be a little off.
12:25<+glx>.cod can be useful when debuging from a .dmp (to now what values are in registers)
12:25<Avdg>im learning the understanding of the process :)
12:26<Avdg>i can build simple ones :)
12:27<+glx>btw I use mingw+msys, 2005 express and 2008 express :)
12:28<Lakie>I have 2005 express and 2008 express, I use the latest one for compiling OpenTTD though
12:29<Lakie>Have cygwin for TTDpatch but the last time I tried compiling OpenTTD through that it was a true nightmare.
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12:30<+glx>I compile ttdpatch with mingw+msys
12:33<@Belugas>i bet it does not take as long as OTTD :)
12:33<Lakie>Full recompile takes a long time
12:33<Lakie>But small changes tend to be only a few seconds for me
12:34<Lakie>usually shorter than building OpenTTD after updating the svn.
12:34<Avdg>i have test my openttd with a speedhack, does work :)
12:34<Lakie>Full Recompile takes around 5 minutes though.
12:34<+glx>Avdg: speedhack?
12:34<@Belugas>it does? but it's asm, isn't it?
12:34<@Belugas>so how come?
12:34<Avdg>maglev 4 at 10 times faster :)
12:35<+glx>use a grf for that
12:35<+glx>no need to change openttd
12:35<Avdg>i know what im doing :) i've backup it
12:35<Lakie>Belugas: yes but its to do with the way its compiled
12:35<Lakie>It has all the dependancies calculated and then compiles, links etc
12:35<Lakie>So a full compile takes an AGE
12:36<Ammler>Avdg: I have a grf with maglev at maxspeed :-)
12:36<Lakie>But it means small changes are much faster
12:36<Ammler>for the logic gates
12:36<Avdg>:)
12:36<Lakie>65535 km/h?
12:36<Ammler>Lakie: yep
12:36<+glx>if you don't touch any headers, updates compile fast
12:37<Ammler>I would like to have a monorail with that speed
12:37<Avdg>no, not enough power :)
12:37<Ammler>but that uses TE
12:37<Lakie>No offense but I'd imagine the train would break or atleast kill everyone on board with the g forces
12:38<Lakie>I assume it doesn't take like 8000 tiles to get to top speed.
12:38<Ammler>Lakie: it is not for transport
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12:38<Lakie>Hmm...
12:38<Ammler>it is for a not gate and such
12:38<Avdg>:)
12:38<Lakie>Heh, ok
12:38<Avdg>logicttd
12:39<Ammler>Lakie: we have programmable singals on ottd too, now :-)
12:39<Avdg>brb
12:39<Lakie>I know
12:40<Lakie>Though credits to JGR for coming up with the original idea
12:40<Lakie>I doubt anyone else would have thought it up and implimented
12:40<Lakie>it.
12:40<Ammler>Lakie: I fear, we do not speak about the same :-)
12:40<Lakie>Giving conditions for how a singal is used?
12:41<Lakie>What can pass it etc
12:41<Brianetta>How long before there's enough of TTDPatch not to need TTD any more?
12:41<Ammler>"our" programmable signals looks like http://www.openttdcoop.org/blog/2008/06/17/the-insane-led-counter-logic-gates-part-1/
12:41<Noetloj>Brianetta: Surely it wouldn't just be a "patch" then?
12:41<Brianetta>Noetloj: Well, yeah
12:41<Noetloj>if it didn't need the original game to "patch"
12:42<Brianetta>It'd be .
12:42<Brianetta>That's a null string, btw
12:42<Lakie>That does appear quite different, Ammler.
12:42<Ammler>:-D
12:42<Brianetta>"I'm just off to play for a bit"
12:42<Ammler>Brianetta: that is what I am wondering too, is there code of the original still used?
12:43<Lakie>Quite a lot of TTD is still in there
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12:47<Brianetta>I played TTD Patch 2 once, years ago
12:47<Brianetta>Well before the numbering got rebooted, obviously
12:48<Brianetta>Probably back around 1997
12:48<Brianetta>but apart from that, I've not played Patch
12:48<Brianetta>TT demo, TT, TTD, TTD+alter, TT Patch 2.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. OpenTTD
12:49<Brianetta>That big huge gap was caused by me not runnign DOS any more
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13:02<fonso>Is there a way to find out when a tile is removed from a station? Other than adding a hook in MakeClear (which seems to be spaghetti-ish)?
13:03<frosch123>ClearTile_Station
13:04<fonso>ah
13:06<fonso>but airport does DoClearSquare instead ...
13:06<fonso>is that intended?
13:06<fonso>(in RemoveAirport, station_cmd.cpp:1862)
13:07<frosch123>and who calls RemoveAirport ?
13:09<fonso>ah
13:09<fonso>but doesn't RemoveAirport remove quite a bunch of tiles at once?
13:09<frosch123>have you ever seen a half airport in game?
13:10<fonso>see
13:10<fonso>It seems I have to dig into that some more. Thanks for now
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13:11<@peter1138>heh
13:16<@Belugas>looks like Colours and TextColour enums should be merged. They are used indistincly in the widget's color member
13:16<@Belugas>that is, of course, if ever color would need to be anything different then a byte
13:16<Avdg>hum... perfectly 100 users :)
13:17<@Rubidium>nah, there're no 100 users in here
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13:20<Wolf01>hello
13:20<Eddi|zuHause2>wah... it's definitely too hot to move...
13:21<Wolf01>I was glued to the chair, so I had a shower, I'm glued again
13:21<@Belugas>so in essence, the chair has never left your butt?
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13:39<Eddi|zuHause2>today i realized one thing... working is not the real work, getting to work and coming back from work is the real work
13:40<Eddi|zuHause2>oh... and that the DB does not play with breakdowns off...
13:40<@Belugas>:)
13:41<Eddi|zuHause2>honestly... i spent more time travelling than working...
13:44<guru3>anyone here remember the app i wrote to generate landscapes?
13:44<guru3>i've got a new version now
13:44<bowman>I'm going to india for 2 days of meetings, thats literally going to be more travel time than actual work :)
13:45<guru3>http://guru3.net/temp/landgen-3d2.png
13:45<Eddi|zuHause2>also, i learned that the local public transport company is full of jerks... they print out tickets for one time use with some crappy printers, which is alright, but they print out tickets for 6 months use on the same printers, and then refuse to replace tickets that are almost unreadable after 4 months...
13:46<Eddi|zuHause2>guru3: remember? how many decades ago was that?
13:46<guru3>hmm a few months
13:46<guru3>maybe april sometime
13:46<+glx>here they try to not print tickets anymore
13:46<Eddi|zuHause2>you have not spoken here in 2 years :p
13:46<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2, you weren't supposed to have a destination, that isn't implemented yet.
13:46<guru3>i have too
13:46<guru3>i was just talking the other day
13:47<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, i meant before that sudden reappearance
13:47<guru3>well you know
13:47<guru3>sith happens
13:47<guru3>i'm sure i got some feedback in april from here on my landscape generator
13:48<Eddi|zuHause2>sith always appear in pairs... an apprentice, and a master
13:48<guru3>that's why it took two years
13:48<Eddi|zuHause2>you finally made it to apprentice level :p
13:49<guru3>there was a level end with a ladder moving around quickly
13:49<guru3>i couldn't decide when it should stop
13:50<guru3>that aside, what's a good number of quads to draw on the screen at once?
13:50<guru3>that's 64x64
13:51<guru3>i'm trying to figure out if the slow spot in my program is the gl
13:51<guru3>or translating the map data structure to gl
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14:52<Cosmo>ah ha found the right server at last
14:53<Cosmo>is there a single place that I can download most / all the 32bpp graphics for openttd or do I have to look through the forums for them?
14:59<Ammler>I have a 3 months old packet
15:00<+glx>Cosmo: there's a page on the wiki I think
15:00<Cosmo>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/32bpp_Extra_Zoom_Levels ?
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15:02<+glx>hmm those are for a non official version only
15:02<Cosmo>ah darn
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15:03<Yexo>Cosmo: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/List_of_downloadable_32bpp_tars
15:04<Cosmo>Yexo: I just found this second :)
15:04<Yexo>but there may be more graphics in the forum
15:04<+glx>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/GFXDev:32bit_Graphics_Exhibition <-- there you can find individual files I think
15:04<Cosmo>thanks :)
15:05<+glx>but not ready to use it seems
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15:06<Ammler>is it possible for a GRF to know, if 32bpp is on?
15:06<+glx>32bpp is always on
15:06<Ammler>hmm, don't I need to enable that in cfg anymore?
15:07<Ammler>or with the console attribute
15:07<+glx>ha right you need to use the right blitter
15:07<+glx>but why a GRF would need to know that?
15:07<Ammler>so you could make "empty" GRFs for the 32bpp replacment
15:08<+glx>you can, it will just look weird with 8bpp blitter
15:09<Ammler>that's why I asked about, if a GRF deos know that
15:09<Ammler>so you could disable it.
15:09<Cosmo>glx: thanks for the link, It looks amazing
15:10<Avdg>i found a bug in noai latest build
15:10<Cosmo>looks like the next version of openttd :)
15:10<+glx>Avdg: go to #openttd.noai
15:10<Ammler>most current 32bpp tars does "just" overwrite the default sprites, that's not optimal :-)
15:10<+glx>indeed :)
15:10<+glx>they should overwrite an action A grf
15:11<Ammler>glx: that's my question for :-)
15:11<Ammler>is that possible?
15:11<+glx>not yet, but it may be possible
15:12<+glx>for now you could use the same sprite for 8bpp (something like questionmark)
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15:30<@peter1138>Overwriting an Action A GRF is not possible?
15:30<+glx>it is possible
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15:31<+glx>telling a newgrf a 32bpp blitter is used is not possible
15:32<@peter1138>Oh, right.
15:32<@peter1138>I don't know if it should be.
15:33<+glx>I think 32bpp gfx could overwrite opengfx ones
15:33<@peter1138>Yeah, or there could be specific graphics for regular GRF sets. The GRF does not need to know in these cases.
15:33<Cosmo>cyas .o/
15:33<Cosmo>thanks again
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15:33<@peter1138>It's yet another chance of introducing desyncs.
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15:47<Ammler>indeed, 32bpp with empty 8bpp doesn't make sense
15:48<Ammler>speically on server games, which not everyone would have/like the 32bpp
15:51<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r13868 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix: Parent scope of industry variables.
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16:05<Celestar>peter1138: does it work? :)
16:10<@peter1138>Loading does, transfers don't
16:10<@peter1138>Need to modify that in a similar way :o
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16:46<welshdragon>!seen Brianetta
16:46<welshdragon>oh, no patchbot
16:48<Digitalfox>http://blog.openttd.org is down?
16:49<rortom>for me also
16:50<Ammler>Digitalfox: that was a page of Truelight
16:51<Ammler>afaik, there wasn't other entries since he "retired"
16:51<Digitalfox>Ammler well it did had other dev's post's
16:51<Ammler>but rare
16:51<Digitalfox>Ammler 2 months ago truebrain did post :)
16:51<Digitalfox>the state of NoAI
16:52<Ammler>oh, then I missed that :-)
16:52<rortom>truelight retired? D:
16:54<Digitalfox>rortom sort of, he still works on NoAI :)
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16:54<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, and afterwards truebrain started the noai project ;)
16:56<@peter1138>Hmm, can I make hg ignore objs and the like?
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17:00<@Rubidium>peter1138: yes you can
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17:09<Brianetta>Do I need a tram set to use trams, or is there one in the SVN somewhere?
17:09<+glx>you need a tram set, and there is one with final releases
17:10<Brianetta>hmm
17:10<+glx>you can try tags/0.6.0 or tags/0.6.1
17:10<Brianetta>I'm using that
17:10<Brianetta>URL: svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/0.6.1
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17:11<+glx>there is generic tram set in its data dir
17:11<Brianetta>aha, generictrams
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17:11<Brianetta>ta (:
17:16<Brianetta>Does that need to be specified in the config?
17:16<Brianetta>Ah heck, it won't hurt
17:16<@peter1138>Needs to be in the NewGRF config, yeah
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17:17<Brianetta>OK, done
17:17<Brianetta>Won't bother to put that on the web page, since everybody has it
17:18<Brianetta>in theory
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17:33<Eddi|zuHause2><Brianetta> While a train's slowly being filled with coal I could be using that loco elsewhere... <- that's definitely a feature that is missing right now. having one engine and two sets of wagons
17:37<+glx>@op
17:37-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
17:37-!-glx changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots
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17:39<@Rubidium>DaleStan: do you know whether articulated parts of an engine are handled any differently than engines/wagons with respect to whether they are powered, their weight, maximum speed etc?
17:40<@Rubidium>especially because callback 10 seems to work for articulated parts in TTDP, but I wonder whether it will actually make that articulated part also powered etc.
17:45<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13869 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Fix [FS#2153] (r13674): in some cases the sprite cache could be filled with unremovable items.
17:47<Brianetta>Tunnels can't be one-way, can they?
17:48<@Rubidium>they can't
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17:51<DaleStan>Rubidium: Default for artic parts is no-power, no-weight, regardless of the NFO settings (or lack thereof) for those properties. Powered wagons (with or without CB10) can override that default, though. I don't know either way about CB36, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
17:53<@Rubidium>okay, that's clear enough
17:53<@Rubidium>thanks
17:54<@peter1138>Not entirely ;)
17:55<@Rubidium>why not?
17:57<@peter1138>Should they affect max speed? Hmm
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17:58<@peter1138>. o O ( http://svn.bucks.net/~petern/artic.diff )
18:00<@Rubidium>why wouldn't artic parts be powered?
18:01<@peter1138>DaleStan just said so.
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18:01<@Rubidium>uhmm... changing the max speed
18:01<@Rubidium>okay, it would be stupid
18:01<DaleStan>Artic parts are usually livery-overrided, therefore max speed does not apply.
18:02<@peter1138>DaleStan, yes, but does it apply if it is not livery-overrided?
18:02<DaleStan>But if they weren't, I suppose that they could change max speed. If so, this would probably be considered a bug.
18:03<@peter1138>Okay
18:03<@peter1138>Rubidium, that should do the trick then?
18:03<@Rubidium>and what about the power?
18:03<@Rubidium>line 112 of train_cmd.cpp
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18:04<@peter1138>Hmm, point.
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18:04<DaleStan><Rubidium> why wouldn't artic parts be powered? <-- There used to be (and maybe still are) troubles displaying true values for artic vehicles in the purchase window. The solution was to zero out anything in the artic parts that was displayed in the window.
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18:06<@Rubidium>that's certainly true, though I've seen people complaining about that sort of things
18:06<@Rubidium>so the more we implement the stuff like TTDP the less complaints we hopefully get from GRF authors
18:07<@peter1138>That should handle power.
18:07*peter1138 test compiles, heh
18:08<@Rubidium>line 111 equals line 115
18:10<@peter1138>Cut and paste turned into copy and paste :o
18:13<@peter1138>Seems to fix 2167.
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18:14<@Rubidium>confirmed
18:16<@peter1138>In theory it's correct, but might cause issues with other sets.
18:16<@peter1138>But
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18:17<@peter1138>we'll see...
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18:19<CIA-5>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13870 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2167]: Callback 10 (visual effect and powered wagons setting) and powered wagons operation were not performed for articulated wagons.
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18:20<Wolf01>'night
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18:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13871 /branches/0.6/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
18:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: - Fix: NewGRF Callback 10 (visual effect and powered wagons setting) and powered wagons operation were not performed for articulated wagons [FS#2167] (r13870)
18:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: - Fix: In some cases the sprite cache could be filled with unremovable items [FS#2153] (r13869)
18:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: - Fix: Return of wrong parent scope of (NewGRF) industry variables (r13868)
18:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: - Fix: Loading of TTD(Patch) savegames from the command line did not work (r13859)
18:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: - Fix: Buffer overflow for too long filename supplied as '-g' parameter (r13858)
18:41<Brianetta>My dedicated server is loading my 1024x256 temperate scenario as a 256x256 hilly
18:41<Brianetta>I just created this scenario in 0.6.1, and am loading it into 0.6.1
18:41<Brianetta>It works when I load it into a dedicated server at home
18:41<Brianetta>but not on my server
18:41<Brianetta>anybody got a hint where I might start looking for the problem?
18:42<@Rubidium>sounds like it can't find the scenario and reverts to a newly created game
18:42<Brianetta>No, it's my scenario all right
18:42<Brianetta>but twisted
18:42<Brianetta>http://ppcis.org/standard/Standard-2008-07-29.scn
18:42<Brianetta>That's the scenario
18:43<Brianetta>It's lovely
18:44<@Rubidium>might it miss newgrfs on the server?
18:45<Brianetta>shouldn't
18:45<Brianetta>but I'll double check
18:46<Brianetta>I think you might have it
18:47<Brianetta>woohoo!
18:48<Brianetta>OK, my Standard Server is up
18:48<Brianetta>and running
18:49<Brianetta>with cutenessess
18:49<@Rubidium>did you remove the newgrf from the scenario?
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18:57<Brianetta>Rubidium: There were a couple of problem ones, yes
18:58<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%2012.%20Dez%201940.png <- it's a lovely twin city
18:59<Eddi|zuHause2>with three "S-Bahn" lines
18:59*Rubidium seems to miss quite some pixels in there
18:59<SmatZ>hehe
18:59<@Rubidium>it's not even 1/4th of my screen high
18:59*SmatZ feels the same
19:00<@Rubidium>:O it just got a little bigger
19:00<Eddi|zuHause2>it says 100% uploaded here...
19:00<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe it's still queued somewhere...
19:01<SmatZ>hmm ReichMarks :)
19:01<Eddi|zuHause2>appears to be complete now ;)
19:02<Brianetta>http://ppcis.org/standard/Feebourne.png
19:02<Brianetta>From my current scenario
19:03<Eddi|zuHause2>is ther intentionally no shore line on the river?
19:05<Eddi|zuHause2>the road transfers through the city are inefficient... next time i'll send cargo trains through the city...
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>i'll still need transfers, because i can't fit an 8 tile wood train next to that saw mill :p
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19:07<Brianetta>Eddi|zuHause2: Nope
19:07<Brianetta>I'd never even seen the river feature before
19:08<Eddi|zuHause2>it's quite new...
19:09<@Rubidium>it's in 0.6.1, so it's more than like 6 months old
19:10<Brianetta>Do they normally have shorelines?
19:10<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, and it was in TTDP a few months before
19:11<Eddi|zuHause2>Brianetta: i assume that depends on the river grf you are using
19:12<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... it is really hard to balance coal and ore for a steel mill (PBI)
19:12<@glx>Brianetta: you should put a lock in the canal zone
19:13<Eddi|zuHause2>it's always biased a little towards one, so it piles up
19:13<Brianetta>glx: You can't place locks in the scenario editor.
19:13<SmatZ>skidd13 is/was working on nice river GRF...
19:13<SmatZ>but he hasn't finished it yet
19:13<SmatZ>(talking about built-in rivers sprites)
19:13<Brianetta>Eddi|zuHause2: There's no grf
19:13<Eddi|zuHause2>Brianetta: that might be part of the problem :p
19:13<SmatZ>Brianetta: you can ... in trunk :-/
19:14<Brianetta>SmatZ: Not helpful for a 0.6.1 dedi-server
19:14<SmatZ>indeed
19:15<Eddi|zuHause2>you could try to start the game, build a lock, clear the company and reload it in the scenario editor
19:16<Brianetta>Eddi: That's too much like hard work. I throw scenarios together in half an hour. They're not works of art (:
19:17<Brianetta>They're just augmented random maps
19:17<Eddi|zuHause2>and nobody has noticed the "parked" S-Bahn in my screenshot ;)
19:18<@Rubidium>I noticed it, but why should I tell you that I did?
19:21<Eddi|zuHause2>i should have more of these eye-candy parked trains...
19:21<@Rubidium>` stopall ?
19:21<Eddi|zuHause2>:p
19:21<Eddi|zuHause2>where was that invisible engine set again?
19:22<@Rubidium>you'll also need a set to replace the signals with always green ones ;)
19:23<Eddi|zuHause2>err... why would i do that?
19:23<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: Eyecandy Empty Engine I guess
19:23<@Rubidium>then you can make a network that magically makes money
19:24<Eddi|zuHause2>haha :p
19:24<SmatZ>hehe
19:26<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... shunting is really vital for single track branch line freight trains...
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19:27<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean logical shunting, not necessarily physical shunting
19:31<Eddi|zuHause2>it should be possible to influence the weighting of transfer money, to even out losses and gains better between the vehicles involved
19:31<Eddi|zuHause2>with practically all my transfers, the first vehicle makes insane amounts of money, while the last vehicle always makes a loss
19:32<Eddi|zuHause2>often twice or three times their running cost
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21:53<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13872 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: Split the news message announcing opening and closure of industries into two news of their own
22:05<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13873 /trunk/src/lang/ (36 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove useless string from all language files affected by r13872. which removed the STR_NEWS_OPEN_CLOSE string
22:08<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13874 /trunk/src/lang/piglatin.txt: -Change: missing svn:property eol-style
22:16<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13875 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove some magic numbers in favour of the Colours enum they are representing
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 30 00:00:06 2008