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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-07-30

---Logopened Wed Jul 30 00:00:06 2008
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02:30<Celestar>peter1138: you around?
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02:45<Celestar>peter1138: about the transfers, you mean we need to mess around with MoveTo (as it is called from economy.cpp:1542 and :1546) ?
02:46<Celestar>peter1138: <= removal of a write-only variable against your hg version
02:49<@peter1138>Currently it knows it needs to unload/transfer stuff, but when it actually comes to do it it just unloads.
02:52<@peter1138>Well, also we will need to unload *and* transfer at the same time
02:53<Celestar>but not of the same cargopacket, right?
02:53<@peter1138>and indeed not unload at the same time.
02:53<@peter1138>Correct, but can be in the same vehicle.
02:54<@peter1138>If there's an unload or transfer, everything is unloaded, even stuff meant to stay on :)
02:54<@peter1138>I think we also need to special-case handling of INVALID_STATION as the destination
02:55<@peter1138>And try to follow the old rules for that
02:55<Celestar>peter1138: we've got to think what happens with the order flags: NO_LOAD is fine. TRANSFER is completely pointless once destinations are in place, so it should be ignored for destinationized (nice word) cargo. UNLOAD is ok, if the user wants the cargo to take the next train running the same line, fine.
02:55<@peter1138>That way the only bits where destinations is optional is when choosing a destination
02:56<@peter1138>We should do what the order flag says, even if it's wrong.
02:56<Celestar>MEH how do I list breakpoints in gdb?!
02:57*peter1138 off to take the car out to get its cambelt changed.
02:57<@Rubidium>break <filename>:<linenumber> IIRC
02:57<Celestar>Rubidium: not set, just view :P
02:58<@Rubidium>then I've got no idea
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02:59*peter1138 will be back in... a while. Have to cycle back from the garage.
03:00<Celestar>er PEOPLE?
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03:01<Celestar>why are we removing a cargopacket FIRST and then add the same thing later?
03:01<@Rubidium>google says "info breakpoints"
03:02<Celestar>Rubidium: can you please have a look at cargopackets.cpp:209 ?
03:02<@Rubidium>what's with that comment?
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03:03<Celestar>er sorry, line numbers got messed up. packets.remove(cp); <= I mean this
03:04<@Rubidium>what's wrong with that?
03:04<Celestar>cp is referenced after that line?
03:04<@Rubidium>which is wrong because?
03:04<Celestar>.remove() does NOT only remove an item from a list. .remove() calls the destructor of said objects ..
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03:05<@Rubidium>Celestar: and what's the destructor of a pointer?
03:05<Celestar>depends on how it is implemented? (=
03:06<Celestar>the destructor of the pointer leaves the object intact in this case?
03:06<@Rubidium>it always does
03:06<@Rubidium>which can also be annoying some times
03:07<Celestar>unless it's an auto_ptr (=
03:08<@Rubidium>but auto_ptr is a struct containing a pointer, not a pointer
03:08<@Rubidium>a pointer to an auto_ptr struct will also cause the auto_ptr to not destroy itself and the thing it points to
03:11<Celestar>yeah (=
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03:20<Celestar>break; breaks whats?
03:21<@Rubidium>a switch/loop
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03:24<Celestar>Rubidium: but not an if block, right?
03:25<Celestar>SCREW break.
03:25*Celestar goes using proper control flow
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03:30<Celestar>peter1138: I did it
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03:47*peter1138 is back.
03:49<@peter1138>Hmm, despite not having ridden for ... 3 years, I averages 18 mph :o
03:49<@peter1138>Of course, I'm worn out now :)
03:52<Celestar>peter1138: I've done it :D
03:52<Celestar>things get transferred propery
03:53<@peter1138>And unloaded, and not unloaded? :D
03:54<Celestar>uh huh?
03:54<Celestar>don't get this :P
03:54<Celestar>your last question?
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03:54<@peter1138>Never mind. Show mE :D
03:55<Celestar>in about 2 mins, just cleaning up some mess :P
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03:57<@peter1138>Brianetta, is YAPP officially bug-free?
03:58<Celestar>peter1138: <= something like this?
03:58<Celestar>peter1138: <= diff against hg version
03:59<Celestar>it's slow
03:59<Celestar>or so it appears to me :o
03:59<@peter1138>The patch? :(
03:59<Celestar>no the entire thing
03:59<Celestar>but it's the whole machine
04:00<Celestar>"ls" takes 5 seconds :o
04:00*Celestar gives the kernel a restart
04:00<Celestar>back in a few
04:02*Celestar kicks ICEM for not freeing memory properly
04:02<@Rubidium>that'll probably not leak as much as hg does when importing a svn repository
04:03<Brianetta>peter1138: I have no idea. I do know that I'm not finding any.
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04:03<Celestar>Rubidium: it just leaked a gig :S
04:03<@Rubidium>Celestar: over what amount of time?
04:03<Celestar>Rubidium: open project (2 minutes), close project (2 minutes)
04:03<@Rubidium>hg leaks 1+ gb in a few minutes
04:04<@Rubidium>:o so they are equally bad
04:04<Celestar>Rubidium: then again, HG is free, ICEM costs about 1000 bucks per year (academic pricing)
04:04<@Rubidium>yup, so I expect HG to not leak memory ;)
04:04<Celestar>true (=
04:05<@Rubidium>like I expect OTTD to not leak memory
04:06<Celestar>ottd leaks little imho
04:06<@peter1138>Way better than it used to be though :)
04:06<@Rubidium>valgrind only shows it's leaking a few bytes
04:06*peter1138 remembers the calamity of NewGRF spritegroups...
04:06<@Rubidium>but that's in alsa, X and SDL
04:07<Celestar>we use alsa?
04:07<Celestar>I mean directly?
04:07<@peter1138>No, nor do we use X directly.
04:08<@Rubidium>autoreplace + conditional orders + no automatic servicing works great; vehicles getting replaced once they're "old"
04:08<Celestar>Rubidium: conditional orders ROCK
04:08*peter1138 has not used conditional orders.
04:08<Celestar>I do
04:08<Celestar>especially with servicing
04:08<Celestar>since my depots are only reachable from the platform side of a station
04:08*peter1138 tests his game :D
04:08<Celestar>not the "free" side
04:08*Celestar expects peter1138's game to go BOOM
04:09<@peter1138>Vehicle is not moving :o
04:09<blathijs>What are conditional orders? Or rather, what are the possible conditions?
04:10*Celestar is happy that his comp can play UT2 at close to 100 fps, but icem (currently displaying the 102 straight lines of his project) manages to get his GPU to the knees with 2 fps
04:10<@Rubidium>if [age|requires service|load|...] [is|is not|less than|more than|...] [number] jump to order Y
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04:11<blathijs>Rubidium: Then what kind of conditional orders are you using if you disabled autoservice and enabled autoreplace?
04:11<@peter1138>Celestar: doesn't work :(
04:11<blathijs>oh wait, disabling automatic servicing does not equal disabling breakdowns, I guess?
04:11<Celestar>peter1138: heh now my vehicles stopped moving as well :o
04:11<@Rubidium>if age is less than 22 (== max vehicle age) skip depot order
04:12<@peter1138>I have a feeling it's because it doesn't realise it's finished unloading all it can.
04:12<Celestar>peter1138: try not loading a savegame
04:12<blathijs>In which case, conditional orders sound like the walhalla of proper track design :-)
04:12<blathijs>Without trains getting lost all the time to find a depot :-)
04:13<@peter1138>Hmm, ok
04:13<Celestar>peter1138: hm .. it works with one-to-one orders
04:13<Celestar>apparently I still have a problem with intermediate stops
04:13<@peter1138>blathijs, and have you played with YAPP?
04:13<Celestar>which include the "stay on board" thing
04:13<Celestar>peter1138: I have. a Lot
04:13<blathijs>peter1138: No
04:14<@peter1138>Celestar, by the way, a little trick. Suffix XXX lines with spaces.
04:14<@peter1138>Then you can't accidentally commit them to trunk ;)
04:15<@peter1138>Not that I've ever done that. *cough*
04:15<Celestar>heh :D
04:15<Celestar>peter1138: dealing with the problem of stuck vehicles
04:17<Celestar>peter1138: you can help too because I'm still stuck (=
04:23<Celestar>heh I don't manage to get them stuck now :P
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04:30<Celestar>peter1138: any idea why they get stuck?
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04:33<Celestar>peter1138: I have :D
04:33<Celestar>possibly ..
04:39<Celestar>er nope
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04:50<Celestar>peter1138: I *think* I have it
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04:50<Celestar>peter1138: or not :S
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04:54<Celestar>peter1138: this one is yours, I've got to get a bit of work done
04:54<Celestar>peter1138: I think it has something to do with the unload time. The packets that are not really unloaded by MoveTo yet account for the required unload time. Over and over and over.
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05:01<fonso>Hi Celestar. You told me to bug you about diagonal levelling and demolishing today.
05:01<@peter1138>Sorry, I was playing my YAPP game ;)
05:01*Brianetta is now at work
05:01<Brianetta>Sorry for vanishing like that
05:02<Brianetta>peter1138: Do you think YAPP would benefit from an order modification, "(express)", which would reserve two blocks iff possible?
05:02<Brianetta>I posted this on the YAPP thread, but people seem to be shooting it down
05:03<@peter1138>Well, yes.
05:03<@peter1138>Might be interesting.
05:03<Brianetta>So your full train could punch through faster than the empties
05:04<Brianetta>or the passenger express could delay the coalies
05:10<@peter1138>Yeah, they seem to be missing the point by saying it should be signal based...
05:10<@peter1138>I guess they only think in terms of priority of merging lines...
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05:15<Brianetta>Hey, Progster
05:15<Celestar>Brianetta: sounds not too bad, but that's for after the commit to trunk imho
05:15<Brianetta>Celestar: Sure thing.
05:16<Brianetta>I'm not pressing for immediate inclusion.
05:16<Brianetta>Thing is, if I wait until it's in trunk, I'll forget to suggest it..
05:16<Brianetta>It is a shame, though, that with YAPP you hardly ever see a green light
05:17<Brianetta>If a high-speed express was included (reserve three blocks) we'd even have an excuse to draw double greens.
05:18<Brianetta>Actually, as it is right now, all the greens should be yellow
05:18<fonso>I want to count the tiles belonging to a station in order to determine its cargo capacity for a "station capacities" patch. To do that I want to track tiles being added to or removed from a station. Adding is easy. I added some lines to MakeStation in station_map.h. Removing, however is not so easy. The only thing all methods for removing tiles for a station have in common is that they eventually call MakeClear. Unfortunately MakeClear is us
05:18<fonso>not directly related to stations. So perhaps I shouldn't modify it to handle counting of tiles for stations. Any ideas?
05:18<Celestar>Brianetta: with reserving, we could also implement PROPER brake distances
05:19<Brianetta>Celestar: Oh yes, I'm well aware of that bundle of joy.
05:19<Celestar>Brianetta: like every train reservse (stop way + slip way) * some factor
05:19<Noldo>fonso: every tiletype has it's own clearing function
05:19<Brianetta>If peter1138's patch still applied, I'd have been playing with it on YAPP
05:19<Brianetta>but I can tell that I'd have to stop (or slow a lot) at every red.
05:20<Brianetta>Displaying the reserved path would be a must for a manually controlled train
05:20*Celestar still has doubts that manually controller trains will go into trunk :P
05:21<Noldo>fonso: static CommandCost ClearTile_Station should be the function you are looking for
05:21<fonso>I know there is ClearTile_Station, but I can't know how many tiles will be removed when it's called. Also, there is CmdRemoveFromRailroadStation which goes another code path
05:22<Brianetta>Celestar: They don't need to go into trunk
05:22<Brianetta>I'm totally happy to patch mine
05:22<Brianetta>but it's SO MUCH FUN
05:23<Noldo>fonso: I think it's called once for every tile
05:23<fonso>The same with CmdRemoveRoadStop, I think.
05:23<Celestar>so peter1138 any idea about the stuck vehicles?
05:23<Noldo>ClearTile_Station I mean
05:23<fonso>ok, I'll try. Perhaps I got it wrong
05:24<Noldo>it goes to RemoveRailroadStation though :/
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05:26<Celestar>peter1138: stop playing and help me :P
05:26<fonso>My theory is, that CmdRemoveFromRailroadStation doesn't call ClearTile_Station
05:26<fonso>but I might be wrong
05:28<fonso>Nope, I was right.
05:28<fonso>ClearTile_Station isn't called when removing single tiles from a rail station
05:29<fonso>Also it's not called for every tile of a station facility being removed but only for some
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05:33<Brianetta>fonso: Just poll the entire map array every tick
05:33*Brianetta whistles and tries to look nonchalant
05:34<Brianetta>Fact is, *something* must be called
05:34<fonso>The code paths merge at MakeClear
05:35<fonso>if I hook in there it works
05:35<fonso>but that's very low
05:35<Brianetta>You could always make a wrapper function for the methods that call MakeClear
05:35<fonso>yes, that should do the trick
05:35<Brianetta>So it calls your code, then passes the call to MakeClear on
05:36<Celestar>what are we discussing?
05:36<Brianetta>Notification upon removal of a station tile, for purpose of reducing capacity
05:37<Celestar>er .. just keep track of the number?
05:37<fonso>That's what I'm trying to do
05:38<Brianetta>When a player removes a station tile, there's not currently any code that tells you this
05:38<Celestar>Brianetta: ?
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05:39<Celestar>CmdRemoveRoadStop removes one time
05:39<Celestar>CmdRemoveFromRailroadstation removes one tile
05:39<Brianetta>Celestar: The issue seems to be removing only part of a station
05:39<fonso>yes, but hooking into each of them is ugly
05:40<fonso>I'll make a wrapper function. That sounds ok
05:40<Brianetta>Can you overload MakeClear?
05:40<Celestar>You have to hook into each command
05:40<Brianetta>Then you wouldn't even have to change the call
05:40<Celestar>Brianetta: you can overload any function
05:40<Celestar>but you must hook into the commands
05:40<Celestar>otherwise you're not network synced
05:40<Brianetta>I meant just within that class
05:40<fonso>If you really want me to hook into each command, I'll do it
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05:41<fonso>But next time you invent some other method to remove tiles you'll have to remember that ...
05:41<Celestar>and you don't need to "hook". Just put a this->number_of_tiles-- into each of them
05:42<Celestar>I don't see the problem
05:42<fonso>no, doesn't work
05:42<fonso>You can remove many tiles at once
05:42<fonso>for example an airport
05:42<fonso>I have to count them somehow
05:42<fonso>and thus duplicate code
05:43<Celestar>then just traverse the station rect and count the number everytime you change the station
05:43<Celestar>be sure to compare the indicies
05:43<fonso>As I said: I can do that
05:44<fonso>but I think a wrapper for MakeClear when called from the station methods would be much more elegant. Why would that desync?
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05:54<fonso>Index: station_cmd.cpp===================================================================--- station_cmd.cpp (Revision 13865)+++ station_cmd.cpp (Arbeitskopie)@@ -51,6 +51,11 @@ DEFINE_OLD_POOL_GENERIC(Station, Station) DEFINE_OLD_POOL_GENERIC(RoadStop, RoadStop)+void DoClearSquare_Station(TileIndex tile, Station * st) {+ st->removeTile();+ DEBUG(station, _debug_station_level, "tile removed from station, now: %3d tiles",
05:54<fonso>** * Check whether the given tile is a hangar.@@ -1174,7 +1179,7 @@ Track track = GetRailStationTrack(tile2); Owner owner = GetTileOwner(tile2);- DoClearSquare(tile2);+ DoClearSquare_Station(tile2, st); st->rect.AfterRemoveTile(st, tile2); AddTrackToSignalBuffer(tile2, track, owner);
05:54<fonso>236,7 +1241,7 @@ /* read variables before the station tile is removed */ Track track = GetRailStationTrack(tile); Owner owner = GetTileOwner(tile); // _current_player can be OWNER_WATER- DoClearSquare(tile);+ DoClearSquare_Station(tile, st);
05:54<fonso>ffer(tile, track, owner); YapfNotifyTrackLayoutChange(tile, track); }@@ -1478,7 +1483,7 @@ InvalidateWindowWidget(WC_STATION_VIEW, st->index, SVW_ROADVEHS); delete cur_stop;- DoClearSquare(tile);+ DoClearSquare_Station(tile, st); st->rect.AfterRemoveTile(st, tile); UpdateStationVirtCoor
05:54<fonso> if (flags & DC_EXEC) { DeleteAnimatedTile(tile_cur);- DoClearSquare(tile_cur);+ DoClearSquare_Station(tile_cur, st); } } END_TILE_LOOP(tile_cur, w, h, tile)@@ -2108,7 +2113,7 @@ if (!EnsureNoVehicleOnGround(tile2)) return CMD_ERROR; if (flags & DC_EXEC) {- DoClearSquare(tile1);+ DoClearSquare_Station(tile1, st);
05:54<fonso>->owner); st->rect.AfterRemoveTile(st, tile1);
05:55<fonso>like this
05:55<Noldo>use paste service
05:55<fonso>what is that?
05:57<Noldo>like that one
05:57<Alberth>fonso: (although it seems slow or down atm)
05:57<fonso>ok, thanks
05:57<fonso>sorry for the mess
05:57<Noldo> is slow too
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06:05<@peter1138>Celestar, hah, I went out :p
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06:07<@peter1138>And now I'm too hot :o
06:08<Celestar>peter1138: er what?
06:09<@peter1138>I went out. Outside.
06:09<@peter1138>Shocking, I know...
06:10<fonso>It works. Now why is it bad?
06:11<@peter1138>st->removeTile() ?
06:11<fonso>my own method for counting the tiles
06:11<@peter1138>Well, I think you're better off just add st->removeTile() to those places instead of changing it.
06:12<@peter1138>the debug line can be inside removeTile...
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06:12<fonso>OK then, I won't start a fight about that.
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06:13<Celestar>peter1138: did you get my messages from earlier?
06:16<welshdragon>Brianetta, thanks
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06:18<Celestar>er .. sorry :P
06:18<Celestar>wrong terminal :P
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06:19<Celestar>rebooted the wrong box :S
06:20<fonso>and Celestar, you told me yesterday that you wanted to discuss the diagonal levelling today
06:20<Celestar>fonso: yes. dump what you have :) I'm reading. don't paste any code here however (=
06:21<fonso>this is the patch
06:21<fonso>It does diagonal levelling and clearing with CTRL as modifier key
06:22<fonso>It doesn't do diagonal raise and lower
06:22<fonso>because the control key is claimed by the drag-and-draw patch for that
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06:23<welshdragon>Brianetta, yours erver back yet?
06:25*Celestar goes reading the patch
06:26*welshdragon jumps in
06:26<Brianetta>although a quick check of the web page would tell you this
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06:26<welshdragon>meh, easier to ask on IRC
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06:27<Brianetta>assuming I'm skiving
06:27<welshdragon>i think my openttd is borked
06:28<welshdragon>i can't search for servers
06:28<SmatZ> is broken somehow, maybe the master server isn't available atm
06:28<welshdragon>oh dear
06:29<Celestar>(uint)-1 :(
06:30<SmatZ>Celestar: MAX_UINT :)
06:30<Celestar>no SmatZ UINT_MAX afaik :D
06:30<fonso>that's easy to fix, however
06:30<SmatZ>Celestar: oh :-x
06:30*SmatZ runs in shame
06:32<Celestar>SmatZ: I might be mistaken too
06:33<fonso>openttd/src$ cat *.cpp | grep -c '(uint)-1'36
06:33<Recimin>Why cant i connect to open TTD
06:33<Noldo>there is some kind of network problem
06:33*fonso clears his throat
06:33<Celestar>fonso: yeah. not good :P
06:33<SmatZ>fonso: you can grep for ~(uint)0 and similiar :) ... (uint32) probably too...
06:34<Recimin>CRap.! have they set anytime when they think they will be ready? :P
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06:37<Celestar>fonso: I'll try your patch out later today. :)
06:37<Celestar>once I'll get going with the transfer problem
06:39<fonso>ok, fine
06:40<fonso>I'm leaving for an hour or two then
06:40<Celestar>and fonso , please don't put special chars in comments (=
06:40<Celestar>like "°"
06:41*fonso goes looking for it
06:41<fonso>but that's also easy to fix
06:42<fonso>I'll do the syntactic sugar later today and paste an updated version
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06:43<Celestar>note to self: when compiling a lot of stuff, remove any choclate near the exhaust of the laptop :S
06:44<@Rubidium>does the same hold for icecream?
06:47<Celestar>Rubidium: no, it will vaporize instantly :P
06:47<@Rubidium>then use a better laptop ;)
06:48*Rubidium hates it that the ambient temperature here is above 22-ish degrees Celsius
06:48<@Rubidium>now my laptop fan occasionally turns because it can't cool enough passively
06:51<Celestar>Rubidium: It's an IBM T42p
06:51<Celestar>there's no better laptop :P
06:51<Celestar>well, T61p
06:51<Celestar>which I'll purchase next month
06:52<Celestar>Rubidium: but I'm compiling, and running an OpenGL application at full GPU speed
06:53<Celestar>Rubidium: both devices use the same, single exhaust for heat
06:53<Celestar>and the choclate was about 2cm from there
06:53<Celestar>plus ambient temp is 29°C
06:55<@Rubidium>then it'll melt anyways ;)
06:57*Celestar goes back to debugging paxdest
06:57<@Rubidium>hmm, lenovo doesn't even sell a laptop with 1920x1200 :(
06:57<@Rubidium>lenovo being the company that sells the thinkpad
06:59<Celestar>Rubidium: they do.
07:00<Celestar>Rubidium: the T61p has optinal 1920x1200 but only on the 15.4"
07:00<Celestar>which I hate
07:00<Celestar>I want the 14.1 version
07:00<Celestar>(with 1400x1050)
07:02<@Rubidium>so they don't sell those in the US
07:03<@Rubidium>Max. Farben oder Graustufen: <- sounds like well... we'll give you either a colour display or one that only has grayscale
07:03<Celestar>heh :P
07:03<@Rubidium>that thing is more than twice the cost of my current laptop
07:05<@Rubidium>and the only real difference seems to be a newer processor and more memory; the rest of the changes is useless for me
07:05<Celestar>Rubidium: when will we trunkify YAPP :P
07:05<Celestar>Rubidium: plus you get a solid laptop
07:05<Celestar>peter1138: ? really :D
07:05<@Rubidium>Celestar: what's solid in that context?
07:06<Celestar>Rubidium: solid in build quality and robustness against external forces/influences
07:06<Celestar>I've seen T series survive half a liter of water being spilled over their keyboard
07:06<@Rubidium>I haven't had a single issue with my laptop
07:06<Celestar>not that I tried it
07:07<Celestar> plus I have 4 year on-site service (=
07:07<Celestar>peter1138: we should concentrate on the stuck vehicle problem. it's just driving me insane
07:07<@Rubidium>which is almost 3 years old and was turned on 99% of that time doing useful stuff ;)
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07:07<@Rubidium>I even put it in my backpack compiling and then drove home
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07:08<@Rubidium>or left it downloading of the campus' wireless network while going home via elevator and bike
07:08<@Rubidium>amazingly there was no connectionloss at all
07:09<@peter1138>That's the keyboard I have... He goes mad at 2-3 minutes
07:10<Celestar>Rubidium: peter1138: how can I look at the contents of a std::list in a debugger?
07:10<@Rubidium>by moving down the linked list manually
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07:15<Brianetta>I have a Thinkpad. Dropped it on the USB socket, while there was a USB storage device plugged in.
07:15<Brianetta>Thinkpad won.
07:15<Brianetta>Took it apart to make sure; I was off IRC for five minutes tops, and had everything exposed int he meantime.
07:15<Brianetta>It's self-documenting
07:15<Brianetta>and it has a light!
07:15<Brianetta>to illuminate the keyboard in the dark
07:16<Brianetta>I'd unhesitatingly recommend them.
07:16<Celestar>Brianetta: which one do you have?
07:16<Brianetta>wait, no
07:17*Brianetta dug it out to check
07:17<Brianetta>I had it at the last meet
07:17<Brianetta>and will take it to the next
07:17<Celestar>peter1138: how do we force the damn vehicle to move on :S
07:20<@peter1138>What keeps it there? The fact it is not fully unloaded?
07:23<Celestar>peter1138: apparently
07:23<@peter1138>I'll have a look when I get back.
07:23<@peter1138>I have to pop 'round to Tesco.
07:23<Celestar>poke me once you're back
07:26<Eddi|zuHause3>argh... i hate this... when an order list is open, the "D" hotkey from the order list overrides the "D" hotkey from the terraform gui
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07:52<Brianetta>Eddi|zuHause3: I get annoyed that, when laying roads in a scenario, the R key is overridden for canals, when I only ever want it for removing bits of road.
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07:53<Eddi|zuHause3>hopefully the configurable hotkeys can solve such issues ;)
07:53<Brianetta>As long as they're also configurable in the scenario editor (:
07:53<Brianetta>It's often forgotten
07:54*Brianetta has just been to Tesco
07:54<Celestar>peter1138: nice
07:54<Celestar>peter1138: I've done quite some progress
07:54<@peter1138>Have you sorted it? ;)
07:54<Celestar>peter1138: but still getting some segfaults in the cache
07:55<Celestar>I'm just segfaulting in an assert() :P
07:56<Celestar>GetStationName (index=12016 ...
07:57<Eddi|zuHause3>disable asserts :p
07:57<Celestar>#7 0x08157245 in Routing_t::FindNextHop (this=0x84003f0, from=<value optimized out>, to=12016) at /home/vici/openttd-peter/src/routing.cpp:550
07:57<Celestar>#8 0x08157542 in Routing_t::CanReachStationFrom (this=0x84003f0, from=<value optimized out>, to=6) at /home/vici/openttd-peter/src/routing.cpp:504
07:58<@peter1138>debug-level 3 moment ;)
07:58<Celestar>apparently I've trashed the stack somewhere :P
07:58<Celestar>peter1138: I quite agree
07:59<Celestar>peter1138: have a look at this please:
08:01<@peter1138>seg fault :o
08:01<@peter1138>Takes a while though.
08:02<Celestar>peter1138: routing.cpp:547, right?
08:03<@peter1138>#0 0x00000000004fd829 in Routing_t::FindNextHop (this=0xac3af0, from=<value optimized out>, to=5) at /home/petern/ottd/routing/src/routing.cpp:547
08:03<@peter1138>#1 0x00000000004fd93f in Routing_t::CanReachStationFrom (this=0x0, from=6941, to=4240) at /
08:03<Celestar>peter1138: exactly
08:03<@peter1138>4240 is wrong...
08:03<Celestar>peter1138: gdb problem afaik. goes away with debug 3
08:03<Celestar>or MAYBE with -ggdb
08:03<@peter1138>print from
08:03<@peter1138>$2 = <value optimized out>
08:04<@peter1138>debug 3 :o
08:04<Celestar>peter1138: p this->dirty[from] ?
08:04<Celestar>I mean with --enable-debug=3
08:04<@peter1138>One of the arguments you tried to pass to operator[] could not be converted to what the func
08:04<@peter1138>tion wants.
08:04<@peter1138>it is
08:04<Celestar>then we've trashed the stack
08:04<Eddi|zuHause3>getting stuck behind a slower vehicle is a sure way to screw any timetable...
08:06<Celestar>(gdb) p curr_vertex
08:06<Celestar>$4 = 139850076
08:06<Celestar>er ..
08:07<@peter1138>Well... can't trust anything if the stack's smashed.
08:07<Celestar>(gdb) p this->hopcache[from][this->hopcache[from][to]]
08:07<Celestar>$6 = (unsigned int &) @0x8525248: 139850076
08:07<Celestar>hm how to find a stack trashing?
08:08<@peter1138>Yeah, or maybe efence
08:08<Celestar>or that
08:08*Celestar tries valgrind
08:09<Celestar>I'll be back tomorrow then :S
08:10<Celestar>==3290== Invalid read of size 4
08:10<Celestar>==3290== at 0x817CBC5: Routing_t::FindNextHop(unsigned short, unsigned short) (routing.cpp:538)
08:11<Celestar>==3290== Address 0x7702950 is 0 bytes after a block of size 8 alloc'd
08:11<Celestar>==3290== at 0x402476E: operator new(unsigned) (in /usr/lib/valgrind/x86-linux/
08:11<Celestar>WTH is that?
08:11<Gekz>allocated memory that isnt used?
08:12<@peter1138>Reallocating memory?
08:12<Celestar>it's all in std::vector
08:13<@peter1138>Mental-note, don't run in a debugger when it was set to fullscreen...
08:14<@peter1138>==24293== Address 0xac6b1df is 4,431 bytes inside a block of size 8,680 alloc'd
08:14<@peter1138>But that's in the video stuff somewhere...
08:20<Celestar>(gdb) pvector this->hopcache[0]
08:20<Celestar>elem[0]: $24 = 0
08:20<Celestar>elem[1]: $25 = 0
08:20<Celestar>elem[2]: $26 = 2
08:20<@peter1138>invalid read of size 8
08:20<@peter1138>and 0 bytes after a block of size 40 alloc'd
08:20<@peter1138>but no crash
08:21<Suisse>gdb grrrr
08:21<Celestar>Suisse: what? :D
08:22<Celestar>peter1138: I _might_ have found it
08:23<Suisse>nothing :)
08:24<@peter1138>Enabled routing debug, didn't crash, just stuck in a loop
08:27<ln>everyone's being so on-topic today
08:27<Celestar>peter1138: the load/unload thingy doesn't work right (anymore?)
08:27<Suisse>(elem[0]: $24 = 0 > $24 i thought it was a php line, so i associate dbg to dbgp that doesn't work for me :( (ok plugins don't)
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08:29<Celestar>peter1138: <= try this for a sec
08:30<Celestar>the last fix was crap
08:32<Celestar>I should revert and start over
08:32<Celestar>cancel all the diffs that are not online yet
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08:46<Celestar>WTH??? std::vector<bool> bitmasks? :o
08:50<Celestar>dbg: [routing] Setting cache dirty
08:50<Celestar>dbg: [routing] Found clean cache. Using it
08:54<Celestar>this ain't good
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08:56<ln>what about the international flights?
08:57<ln>not in any way related to what you said.
08:57<Celestar>WHAT THE?
08:57<Celestar>peter1138: I think I have it
08:58<ln>earlier (years ago) i've suggested adding flight targets that are outside the map.
09:00<Celestar>peter1138: <= important
09:00<Celestar>especially routing.cpp:179
09:01<rortom>hi all
09:01<Celestar>hi rortom
09:01<rortom>hows the routing with BGL going?
09:01<Celestar>rortom: excellently
09:01<rortom>great to hear :D
09:02<rortom>something to test already?
09:02<Celestar>rortom: <= look
09:02<rortom>mhm has anyone here lighttpd running wwith fastcgi python? :\
09:03<rortom>very nice :D
09:03<rortom>is that patch certainly going into trunk?
09:04<@peter1138>Ah, v->current_order was still used elsewhere.. hmm..
09:05<Celestar>rortom: well. pretty, I'd say (=
09:05<@Belugas>good day guys
09:05<Celestar>peter1138: not only that :)
09:06<Celestar>peter1138: using *it == true; instead of *it = true; can be deadly :)
09:06<@peter1138>Seems to work...
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09:07<Celestar>peter1138: cool now the unload thingy again
09:07<@peter1138>I left that in... seems to work ;)
09:07<Eddi|zuHause3><ln> earlier (years ago) i've suggested adding flight targets that are outside the map. <- there is nothing outside the map... the world is a flat rectangle...
09:08<Celestar>it does? I'm just trying it
09:08<@peter1138>Well it's not got stuck yet.
09:09<@peter1138>Bah, asserted :o
09:09<@peter1138>openttd: /home/petern/ottd/routing/src/routing.cpp:525: StationID Routing_t::FindNextHop(StationID, StationID): Assertion `from != to' failed.
09:10<@peter1138>Might, of course, be my dodgy destination selection
09:10<@peter1138>although only for loading savegames
09:10<Eddi|zuHause3>problem with tram networks: you run out of station names fast...
09:11<ln>which is not funny
09:11<Celestar>peter1138: well it's not yet working perfectly (=
09:11<Celestar>peter1138: can you update hg?
09:11<Celestar>peter1138: or do you want to fix that assert first?
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09:12<Celestar>peter1138: got it too
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09:13<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: really? There are thousands of preprogrammed station names
09:13<@Rubidium>not very inspiring names though
09:14<Eddi|zuHause3>can't be more than 20...
09:14<@Rubidium><town> #<station id> isn't a name?
09:15<Eddi|zuHause3>no ;)
09:15<Celestar>peter1138: move that new if in UseVehicle outside of the of the (is_on_board) block
09:15<Celestar>peter1138: so that it is always checked
09:16<Eddi|zuHause3>houses in cities should accept coal until the '70s
09:16<@Rubidium>then write a newgrf that does that
09:18<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: yes, most people didn't go out to buy coal, they had a small truck/train station in the basement because of the coal they needed :P
09:18<@peter1138>The from-to assert was caused by a train being at the wrong place for its orders
09:18<Celestar>peter1138: yeah
09:18<Celestar>peter1138: that's why the moving of the if
09:18<Celestar>peter1138: it saveguards against that
09:18<Celestar>(we don't want that stuff loaded anyway)
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09:20<@peter1138>I didn't move the if, though.
09:21<@peter1138>I've got to pop out now.
09:22<Celestar>pity :(
09:22<Celestar>this is kinda fun
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09:27<Celestar>Rubidium: why does --enable-profiling not work? :D
09:27<@Rubidium>it does for me
09:27<Celestar>must be doing something wrong then
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09:27<Celestar>I don't get any gmon.out
09:28<@Rubidium>did you do make run?
09:28<@Rubidium>or just ./openttd in bin
09:28<Celestar>just ./openttd
09:28<rortom>why not run inside gdb?
09:29<@Rubidium>do a ./configure --reconfigure and check whether the (C|LD)FLAGS contains the required profiling flags
09:29<Celestar>it appeary so
09:29<@Rubidium>rortom: because gdb doesn't do profiling
09:29<Celestar>trying to recompile :P
09:29<@Rubidium>make run-prof should do that too
09:32<Celestar>gmon.out: No such file or directory
09:35<@Rubidium>then your system's broken in some way that it doesn't have the correct headers or so
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09:37<Celestar>Rubidium: yeah I think so as well
09:37<Alberth>Celestar: you could try rebuilding everything (make clean ; make)
09:37<Celestar>Alberth: did so already
09:38<@Rubidium>Alberth: changing CFLAGS/LDFLAGS triggers a full recompile, so make run-prof would've done a full recompile and then ran the profile
09:38<Alberth>ah, ok
09:40<Alberth>As a paranoia check, you could set 'export VERBOSE=1', touch 1 .cpp file, and run make to verify that you've indeed got the -pg (?) flag added
09:40<Celestar>someone else will profile paxdest methinks
09:40<Alberth>although they should also be in the makefile of course as Rubidium already said
09:41<fonso>paxdest is already in a runnable state?
09:41<fonso>I wanna try it.
09:41<Celestar>fonso: very Very VERY alphaish
09:42<Celestar>more like a TP
09:42<fonso>so, where can I find it?
09:42<Celestar> somewhere around here
09:45<fonso>It seems I' have to use mercurial to get it
09:45<fonso>but thanks
09:46<Celestar>yeah you need to
09:46<Celestar>hg clone
09:47<rortom>Celestar, peter1138: are you going to improve the station gui for that?
09:48<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think that is needed
09:48<Eddi|zuHause3>the station gui of the old patch is highly confusing...
09:48<Eddi|zuHause3>i have no idea what all these numbers mean
09:49<Celestar>rortom: not in the first iteration
09:49<Celestar>rortom: later on it's likely
09:50<@Belugas>GUI : lovely work, really lovely
09:51<Celestar>first of all, we have to find out why cargo packets still board and deboard at the wrong places
09:51<Celestar>so if anyone wishes to help, go on
09:58*Belugas would need to understand the hg stuff and install it at work. two big tasks :S
09:59<@Belugas>dunno why, but i keep on droping some tea on my sheets. Which never happen with coffee
09:59<rortom>where is the code?
09:59<hylje>surface tension?
09:59<hylje> i believe
10:00<@Belugas>maybe because it's iced tea, so i'm not as cautious...
10:00<@Rubidium>Belugas: you didn't add milk to it!
10:00<@Belugas>could be :)
10:00<@Belugas>but iced tea with milk seems... strange :)
10:00<hylje>don't worry, that doesn't quite turn you into the goddamn Joker
10:01<rortom>oh, hg D:
10:01*Rubidium dislikes iced tea, especially the Japanese variant of it
10:01<Celestar>rortom: I gave the link above
10:02<rortom>yes, i heard just good things aboug hg being better than svn, never used it ..
10:02<hylje>short guide to hg for svn users: checkout is actually pulling, checkin is actually pushing, commits are local only and can be fuzzled with
10:02<@Rubidium>it's just that hg version numbering isn't very useful
10:03<@Rubidium>and that hg sucks when it comes to importing from other scms
10:03<rortom>oh :/
10:03<@Rubidium>but for development that doesn't care about version numbers it can be very useful
10:03<hylje>yeah, sequential revisions can't be relied upon when there will be long-lived branches
10:04<hylje>hg will try its best to keep a sequential revision though
10:04<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13876 /trunk/src/bridge_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Replace numbers with Colours enum on bridge gui
10:05<@Belugas>never tasted japanese iced tea, but i sure does love this one :) Green tea with peppermint leafs from our garden :)
10:05<@Belugas>and honey
10:05<@Belugas>a drop
10:05<@Belugas>lovely :)
10:05<fonso>paxdest needs booost
10:05<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, it does
10:05<fonso>boost even
10:05<@Rubidium>though I must say that I dislike most Japanese teas, except the few non-cheap ones ;)
10:06<fonso>OK, if that's purposely ...
10:06<@peter1138>It's hardly accidental ;)
10:06<hylje>the boost stdlib?
10:07<fonso>openttd/paxdest/src/routing.h:39:42: error: boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp
10:08<fonso>that's where it chokes first
10:08<@peter1138>You need boost graph library
10:08<@peter1138>(apt-get install libboost-graph-dev ;)
10:08<hylje>i'd say it died there. you didn't get much further than that, did you?
10:09*peter1138 is off out again, sorry Celestar!
10:09<fonso>no, but I'm installing boost now
10:10<hylje>choking kinda implies it's chugging along but through a bottleneck
10:10<fonso>well there are some follow up errors
10:10<fonso>but that's the root cause
10:10<fonso>ok, I'll use another word next time
10:11<hylje>good :-)
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10:14<@Belugas>Naaa... don't ... was a joke... you use a bottleneck to do slide guitar ;)
10:14<@Belugas>hello frosch123
10:14<frosch123>hi Belugas
10:15<@Belugas>fonso: i've started to play slide guit a few weeks ago, so i'm a bit all over it still :D
10:17<fonso>yeah, funny I guess ...
10:18<fonso>now can you use "choke" there. I looked it up, it also means "würgen" in German which is a fitting metaphor for a failing compile run.
10:18<fonso>and I must have seen it being used in that way somewhere
10:20<hylje>while i applaud you of bringing other cultures here, it's still mostly english and its nuances we're working around here
10:21<fonso>ok, forget it
10:21<fonso>but: openttd: /home/alve/projekte/openttd/paxdest/src/routing.cpp:525: StationID Routing_t::FindNextHop(StationID, StationID): Assertion `from != to' failed.
10:21<fonso>I loaded a save game
10:21<fonso>I guess that was a bad idea?
10:29<fonso>on a fresh game it works nicely
10:30<+glx>[15:58:13] Belugas would need to understand the hg stuff and install it at work. two big tasks :S <-- installing hg is very easy
10:32<@Rubidium>just break your old thermometer over your computer
10:33<fonso>nice route visualization
10:33<@Belugas>glx, is it? I guess you should have to train me a bit :(
10:33<+glx>there's an installer
10:34<hylje>fonso: how did you intend to debug it otherwise?
10:34<+glx>and after install it just work
10:34<fonso>with a debugger
10:34<fonso>but I wasn't criticizing anyone
10:34<fonso>no need to bash me
10:35<hylje>well sorry, i'm bringing it to perspective
10:35<hylje>because route generation is an ongoing process that involves gameplay
10:35<hylje>debugger makes actually playing the game a bit slower
10:36<+glx>worse with msvc ;)
10:37<hylje>with variable values of "a bit", certainly
10:38<Eddi|zuHause3>"bitte ein bit"
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10:43<@Belugas>i always "play" on debug mode in MSVC
10:43<@Belugas>apart when plahying with my son, on release :)
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11:03<dragonhorseboy>just curious about it but ever think that openttd might expand to other os platforms as well? ^_^
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11:04<Eddi|zuHause3>what other os platforms?
11:10<dragonhorseboy>well its just random thought anyhow but start with any picks of these eddi: kolibrios, os9 (dunno how daunting compactibility might be tho), and another third possible large group could be if openttd could somehow be emulated on top of a java vm
11:11<Brianetta>I thought Java VMs only executed Java bytecode
11:11<Brianetta>Might as well try to rewrite the game in Python
11:12<Brianetta>Wait, didn't somebody say they were going to do that?
11:12<dragonhorseboy>well there are some cases where exe's had been made to run with only needing a java vm .. not sure how it quite actually works ;)
11:12<@Belugas>lots of people talk, few of them know
11:12<@Belugas>or can
11:12<@Belugas>or do
11:12*dragonhorseboy has python loaded on two of my systems but otherwise does not even know much about how to write at all yet :p
11:13<@Belugas>mmh... what were the lyrics again>
11:14<hylje>Brianetta: just python interfaces to OTTD
11:14<@Belugas>haa... got it: "Lots of people talk and few of them know,"
11:15<Brianetta>hylje: No, this was a year or two ago
11:15<blathijs>Brianetta: You would need to compile the C++ code to Java Bytecode, I suspect. As for the python thing, there is some work going on to have a python lirary communicate using the openttd protocol.
11:15<@Belugas>Dazed and Confused
11:15<hylje>Brianetta: yay
11:15<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... did i dream this or was there once a commit that allowed synchronizing the late counter to a specific value?
11:16<blathijs>Running a .exe on top of a Java VM is actually quite hard, only reliable way would be to run an emulator I guess (ie, run an x86 emulator on top of a java VM)
11:16<blathijs>Eddi|zuHause3: late counter?
11:16<Eddi|zuHause3>the amount of time a train is behind its schedule
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11:17<dragonhorseboy>one curious question I never could figure out before...
11:17<blathijs>Eddi|zuHause3: Ah, the timetable thing. I should really have a look at that feature some time...
11:17<dragonhorseboy>whats the use of the timetable scheduling thing if there's more than one train on a line meaning its often plauseable that one got stuck behind a slower another? :/
11:19<Eddi|zuHause3>dragonhorseboy: you adjust the waiting time at the end points so that it can cancel out this kind of delay
11:19<Eddi|zuHause3>dragonhorseboy: or "worse", you timetable the slower trains in a manner, that they do not interfere with the faster trains ;)
11:19<valhallasw>dragonhorseboy: create passing points for the slower trains: the slower train enters the side track, the faster train passes and the slower train can continue
11:20<dragonhorseboy>hm ok if you say so :)
11:20<blathijs>Are timetables explicit, or autocreated?
11:20<Eddi|zuHause3>yes ;)
11:21<Eddi|zuHause3>you can autocreate them, and you can specify them manually
11:21<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r13877 /branches/noai/src/ (squirrel.cpp squirrel_std.cpp squirrel_std.hpp):
11:21<CIA-5>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Revert (r13862): as disabling stack trace displaying for caught exceptions made debugging runtime errors quite impossible.
11:21<CIA-5>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added notifyallexceptions() function to enable/disable stack trace displaying for caught exceptions.
11:21<SmatZ>never ask Eddi|zuHause3 a question with "or" :-)
11:22<dragonhorseboy>smatz lol
11:22<blathijs>Eddi|zuHause3: And what is the net effect of a timetable? That trains will wait at stations until it's time to leave instead of leaving directly after loading?
11:23<dragonhorseboy>well smatz here's one: is openttd set toward system resource efficency or they're starting to toss that out for more heavy features there and there?
11:23<Eddi|zuHause3>but loading trumps timetable... so the train will not leave people behind
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11:24<Eddi|zuHause3>especially makes them useless with full load ;)
11:28<dragonhorseboy>smatz you understand what I mean or not really?
11:28<SmatZ>back :)
11:29<Eddi|zuHause3>what was that again about "or" questions?
11:29<dragonhorseboy>ty smatz
11:29<SmatZ>yw dragonhorseboy
11:29<SmatZ>OTTD is set towards resource (memory and CPU power) efficiency and I hope it will stay this way
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11:31<@Belugas>is it?
11:31<@Belugas>ho damned...
11:32<@Belugas>i though it was only about FEATURES!!!
11:32<Eddi|zuHause3>no, it's about REALISM!!!11!
11:32<dragonhorseboy>smatz I guess it'll always work well on any Pentum II/III's with nominal ram (well eg 96-512mb) for a long time to come yet?
11:33<Brianetta>Found it. It wasn't a Python port, it was a C# port.
11:33<Brianetta>totally mad.
11:34<SmatZ>dragonhorseboy: some GRFs need a lot of CPU power, map generation with some industry sets takes ages :) also depends on map size...
11:34<@Belugas>hooo... the R word...
11:34*Belugas wonders if it
11:34<@Belugas>worth a kick:P
11:35<SmatZ>dragonhorseboy: I don't think CPU power needs / RAM usage has grown since earliest OTTD versions significantly... so I suppose it will stay this way :)
11:35<dragonhorseboy>smatz ^_^
11:35<@Belugas>dragonhorseboy, I have a ADM 1300ish with 512 mg, and it's quite playable, even in debug mode :)
11:35*dragonhorseboy smats smatz
11:35<dragonhorseboy>where did you come up with your nick anyway?
11:35<Eddi|zuHause3>Brianetta: does not look like anything has come out of that :p
11:35<Eddi|zuHause3>unsurprisingly :p
11:36<Brianetta>Eddi: No surprise there.
11:37<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause3: He missed the 3-4 weeks deadline for simple train routes by about 2 years :P
11:48<@Belugas>why is it that every time you start "this", you find that "that" is not clear and should be explained, and then "this-that" turns to a big pile of work???
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11:49<Eddi|zuHause3>could you be a tiny bit less generic? :p
11:50<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... i need a "go to depot [and stop there]" order...
11:50<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r13878 /branches/noai/ (72 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r13836:13876.
11:51<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: build oneway signal or presignal that will stay forever red :)
11:51<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause3, i can, just give me a minute...
11:52<Eddi|zuHause3>SmatZ: bad idea...
11:52<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: why do you need that order?
11:52<Eddi|zuHause3>SmatZ: i have a train that i use very infrequently, so i want to tell it "make one round trip, and go back to the depot"
11:53<Eddi|zuHause3>and when i need it again, i just tell it to go again
11:53<Progman>Eddi|zuHause3: maybe a conditional order like "jump to Order 5 if $some_trivial_thing"
11:53<Eddi|zuHause3>Progman: needs too many clicks to make it go again
11:53<Vikthor>plus, it is useful, if you would like to use loco for completely different train
11:53<SmatZ>but then it will still run and you will pay
11:54<SmatZ>Vikthor: you can refit :)
11:54<SmatZ>at least...
11:54<Vikthor>SmatZ: Not every time
11:54<Progman>Eddi|zuHause3: use the presignal state as SmatZ said
11:54<Vikthor>eg. find me a set that allows refit from oil to iron ore :)
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11:55<Eddi|zuHause3>Progman: that's a "hack", i don't do hacks...
11:56<@Belugas>indeed, you're on strike ;)
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11:57<Eddi|zuHause3>Belugas: only on builds that do not have YAPP :p
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11:57<SmatZ> this way...
11:58<Eddi|zuHause3>really really ugly...
11:58<SmatZ>I like it :)
11:58<Eddi|zuHause3>does not replace a "stop at depot" order
12:01<SmatZ>hmm OTTD code wouldn't handle a house that is church and stadium at once
12:03<@Belugas>why would yo want to do that?
12:04<SmatZ>Belugas: GRF specs allow that
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12:04<SmatZ>and for many people, football is a church :)
12:04<@Belugas>Can Patch support it too?
12:05<SmatZ>I don't know
12:05<SmatZ>I would have to code such GRF
12:06<@Belugas>and why are we not supporting it?
12:07<hylje>nobody bothered to implement it this far
12:07<SmatZ>if that "else" was removed, it would help... I don't know if there are other places like this :)
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12:09<Eddi|zuHause3>maybe... a generic "stop" order could be useful as well [if it can be automatically released by timetable"
12:09<Eddi|zuHause3>so i could have some order: goto A (unload); stop (X ticks); goto A (load) ...
12:10<@Belugas>mmh... no idea whatsoever why it's there... but it does feel like old code, like r1
12:10<Progman>Eddi|zuHause3: there exists somehow already such an order as trains can be send to depots...
12:10<Eddi|zuHause3>Progman: you fail to see the point...
12:10<Eddi|zuHause3>the point is to make the vehicles STOPPED [i.e. turned off, not cause running costs]
12:11<Eddi|zuHause3>not to have them out of the way...
12:11<Progman>like "send to depot" do
12:11<Eddi|zuHause3>Progman: not automatically
12:11<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: you can replace to eyecandy empty engine, it has zero running costs...
12:11<Progman>no, but there exists such thing somewhere in the code...
12:11<@Belugas>hehehe... "no running cost" :)
12:11<SmatZ>(another ugly solution ;)
12:12<hylje>SmatZ: stopped trains have no running costs either
12:12<Eddi|zuHause3>omg! :p
12:12<SmatZ>hylje: yeah, but there is no way to stop trains from orders
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12:13<Brianetta>Is there a desync bug wrt names of waypoints in 0.6.1?
12:13<@Rubidium>there shouldn't be
12:13<SmatZ>Brianetta: desync? like that red error box with desync error message?
12:13<Brianetta>We're desyncing lots
12:14<Brianetta>and Vemarkis says that his waypoints are losing their custom names after rejoining
12:14<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13879 /trunk/src/ (engine_gui.cpp group_gui.cpp industry_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Replace numbers with Colours enum on engine, industries and group gui
12:14<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: maybe autoreplace to engine that has no power on that rail type or some newgrf hack...
12:14<Progman>can confirm this bug
12:14<Progman>got them in a openttdcoop game too, but as we use a lot of newgrfs this can also be a reason for waypoints PLUS newgrfs
12:14<SmatZ>hmm this could be a serious bug
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12:15<@Rubidium>sounds more like FS#1752 in action
12:15<Brianetta>Vemarkis says he also lost all orders on those waypoints
12:16<@Rubidium>then those waypoints didn't exist on the server
12:16<SmatZ>Brianetta: did he actually build those waypoints?
12:16<Brianetta>SmatZ: They're still there
12:17<Progman>I also noticed after such a desync other waypoints get the custom names I tried to set on a waypoint at the desync ;)
12:17<@Rubidium>so... one of the waypoints didn't get created
12:18<Brianetta>causing the rest to get transposed?
12:18*Progman is checking "transposed" on
12:18<Progman>yeah, they get transposed
12:18<Eddi|zuHause3>Progman: i'd say "verschoben"
12:19<Brianetta>Vemarkis isn't seeing that
12:19<Brianetta>Just loss of name and orders
12:19<Brianetta>[17:18] <sarah_pilot> Vemarkis: They just get removed from orders and names are reversed
12:19<Brianetta>[17:19] <sarah_pilot> Vemarkis: back to what they were then they were built
12:19<Brianetta>You can talk to him in-game on #autopilot if you want
12:20<@Rubidium>Brianetta: I build #1, it doesn't get build on the server; I build #2, gets build as #1 on the server, I assign name to #2, doesn't exist on server so nothing happens, I assign order to #2, doesn't exist on server so nothing happens
12:21<Alberth>Belugas: Is it safe to make the Widget::color to be of Colours type?
12:21<SmatZ>strange, I can't reproduce that :-x
12:22<@Belugas>not yet, Alberth. I'm not 100% it will work
12:22<@Belugas>some color are using something else than Colours enum
12:23<@Belugas>not now, granted, but in my repo yes
12:23<+glx>can't reproduce either
12:23<@Belugas>TC_colours, to be exact
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12:23<SmatZ>Rubidium: ahhh ok, checking for unique waypoint name depends on user language...
12:23<@Rubidium>but naming happens much much later
12:24<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13880 /trunk/src/intro_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Replace numbers with Colours enum on intro gui, and align a bit the code
12:24<SmatZ>Rubidium: no... I can't reproduce it this way :-x
12:24<SmatZ>I have two "Waypoint Conston #2" - one as custom name, second as automatic name
12:24*SmatZ failed
12:25<Alberth>Belugas: In the past 2 weeks I've been making a tree of widgets that can compute their own sizes and position. It works for 2 non-resizing windows (A few widgets just move a few pixels). Unfortunately, resizing requires a new attempt on size computing
12:26<SmatZ>Alberth: Belugas: enum occupies 4 bytes of memory, byte only 1 (current state)... there is not need for changing that value
12:26<SmatZ>or use TinyEnumT
12:27<@Belugas>noted, SmatZ :)
12:27<@Belugas>thanks for the tip
12:27<SmatZ>unless it is not TinyEnumT already :)
12:27<SmatZ>thanks Belugas :)
12:27<@Belugas>i doubt
12:27<@Belugas>it is just use as values, right now
12:27<@Belugas>(from what i can see)
12:27<@Belugas>Alberth, it sounds interesting
12:29<@Rubidium>Brianetta: is het building actual waypoints or stations as waypoints?
12:29<SmatZ>Brianetta: Progman: does it happen only in 0.6 branch, but also in trunk?
12:32<Alberth>Belugas: Adapted intro_gui.cpp:
12:33<Alberth>New function InitializeWidgets() that constructs the tree, with a few m_* variables to climate buttons so they can be raised/lowered from the event handler
12:34<@Belugas>Alberth, could yo show me a diff instead?
12:34<@Belugas>that would be easier to read ;)
12:34<Progman>only see it at an openttdcoop game, so just in trunk
12:35<Progman>make waypoints more usefull (like the counterpatch in miniin) and you get more testers for this ;)
12:37<Alberth>For 'Difficulty (.....)' I needed the TextParametersSingleParam object
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12:41<Phantasm>I wonder if I would get banned if I pasted a nice little link.. ;P
12:41<Alberth>And 2 pictures :) and
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12:42<SmatZ>Phantasm: so do I :)
12:42<@Belugas>you know, it might be easier to do if the actual widget creation was done using the array of widgets, upon window creation. this way, it would be easier to "convert" all windows
12:43<@Belugas>if you see what i mean, Alberth
12:43<Phantasm>It has a japanese woman first eating something from between the legs, then eating a nipple and lastly eating an eye.
12:43<@Belugas>my pont of view, anyway
12:43<Phantasm>SmatZ: I'm sure you would love to see it. ;P
12:43<SmatZ>Phantasm: :-)
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12:48<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... it's weird... i cannot find any evidence of this timetable synchronisation patch ever existing...
12:49<Alberth>Yes, I see what you mean. I did think about that for some time, but discarded it since I think that I need the structure to decide how widgets should grow and shrink. All my widgets have a different size since they compute it from their contents.
12:51<Alberth>But maybe I can make a few steps in your direction. One step could be to re-construct the widget array (with pointers instead of widgets), so you don't need to have the m_* members.
12:52<Alberth>Another step could be to make a data structure where you can encode the tree structure in. (not sure how helpful that is relative to the amount of work).
12:53<Alberth>In my code, I created an additional root_widget variable in the Window structure, so windows with different widget structures can co-exist.
12:54<Alberth>Maybe we could have instead a window with a single widget that takes the 'old' widget array as parameter, and then reproduces the old layout.
12:58<SmatZ>Brianetta: are you able to reproduce it?
12:58<Alberth>Belugas: What exactly is the problem? The fact that you cannot simply access all widgets any more (since they are somewhere in a tree rather than an array), or 'just' the conversion of all existing windows?
12:58<SmatZ>or does it happen only for 1 player?
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13:01<@Belugas>the conversion is indeed going to be way faster with my proposal
13:02<@Belugas>of course, every place where the widget is referenced by number (in the array), ther would need to be an associated method
13:03<@Belugas>the way you did with climate buttons is not bad, tough
13:03<@Belugas>so, how they are stored internally is not realy a concern, i think
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13:06<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r13881 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Cleanup (r12751): Remove some dead code.
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13:09<SmatZ>hello Wolf01
13:11<Alberth>In the three GUI coding examples that I have seen, a lot of code and widget references in event handlers is code that really belongs somewhere *inside* the widgets imho. Eg the SetDParm call at line 68 of the diff is only there because atm you cannot extend the textbutton to do this for you. In the airport_gui code, I wrote a StationCoverage widget that handles printing of accepted/delivered cargo types rather than painting that from inside the
13:14<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13882 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Replace widget numbers with appropriate enums
13:15<Alberth>I think a *lot* will change when you switch to more OO widgets; the array may be the smallest part
13:15<@peter1138>All this push_back for each widget is *a lot* of extra code...
13:17<Alberth>peter1138: You'd like to have a data structure for doing this construction instead?
13:17<Progman>Alberth: as there is already such a branch for OO widgets ;)
13:17<Alberth>I know
13:18<@Belugas>a dead one, and one that has been turned down by its creator
13:18<@Belugas>it was an experiment that did not turned out as satisfactory as it was intended
13:18<Alberth>but KUDr thought is was not good, and I agree. I think it is too general (full of templates and factories)
13:19<Alberth>I only have a Widget class hierarchy (although it explodes a bot due to the StringID sometimes needing additional parms)
13:19<@peter1138>Well, if your stuff does automatic rescaling and such like, them I lov eit.
13:19<@peter1138>With the e in the right place too.
13:20<@Belugas>same, plus a creation that is less invasive
13:20<@Belugas>i think the widget array should be used a bit like dfm in delphi, description of the real widget
13:20<@Belugas>that or another representation
13:21<@peter1138>I'd rather it was a static table somehow, but... Hmm...
13:21<SmatZ>I like current code...
13:21<SmatZ>it works and does all I need :-P
13:21<@peter1138>It doesn't resize automatically.
13:21<@peter1138>It's got pixel sizes splattered all over it.
13:22<@peter1138>Bad and wrong.
13:22<+glx>we need sizers
13:22<Alberth>the problem is that there is no structure in the array, its a flat list of widgets. I don't see how to decide which widgets belong together when resizing and which not (where each widget may resize eg due to switching to a different language)
13:22<@Belugas>not to mention strings getting out the the window...
13:22<@peter1138>Alberth, well you can have open/close container dummy widgets in the list.
13:23<Progman>swing framework for openttd ;)
13:24<@peter1138>@seen celestar
13:24<@DorpsGek>peter1138: celestar was last seen in #openttd 3 hours, 22 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <Celestar> rortom: I gave the link above
13:24<Alberth>peter1138: Yes, we can create some data structures for expressing the widget tree in a table form.
13:26<Alberth>However that implies that you cannot have the m_* vars in the way I have them now. I'd need to create an array of widget addresses during construction. (at least I think you don't want to traverse the tree looking for a widget :) )
13:26<Alberth>xpath for widgets :)
13:28<Alberth>peter1138: However..... adding custom widgets for a window gets difficult then, perhaps?
13:30<Alberth>Belugas: You have an URL about dfm, so I can understand what they are?
13:32<@Belugas>here's an example
13:32<@Belugas>it's a descriptive format
13:33<@Belugas>a file associated to a form,
13:33<@Belugas>where all the properties of the form will be exposed
13:33<@Belugas>so when the program complies, it reads the file and convert it to resources that the final exec will use while creating the form itself
13:35<Alberth>Ah, a code generator. Now you're talking :) (I have a compiler construction background)
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13:39<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13883 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Replace numbers with Colours enum on graph gui
13:39<@Belugas>yeah, in a certain way
13:40<Alberth>We could have 1 line for each leaf widget (eg the instantiation-call of a widget), and then have these begin/end-like blocks to define what belongs together in a container. Generating code from that is no problem, takes about a day in Python.
13:40<@Belugas>and i thnk VB uses some sort of similar scheme
13:41<CIA-5>OpenTTD: smatz * r13884 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r11822): custom vehicle names from TTD(Patch) games were lost
13:45<@Belugas>something like that, yeah
13:46<@Belugas>apart the python part...
13:46<@Belugas>for me at least ;)
13:46<@Belugas>but i'm not the only one to decide, don't jump on a crusade ;)
13:47<Alberth>Well, I have written compilers in C++ for C++, so I know it can be done :-D
13:48<@Belugas>ho, that i'm pretty sure, no problem there.
13:48<@Belugas>i was more concerned about the way all devs would like to see it done, if ever it should be done even
13:50<SmatZ>problem with NDS is currently memory fragmentation
13:51<Eddi|zuHause3>Nintendo DS?
13:51<SmatZ>I am not sure if further objectising of code isn't connected with dynamic memory allocation causing ever worse usability
13:51<SmatZ>yeah, Dominik's port :)
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13:51<SmatZ>it doesn't have MMU (as I was explained)
13:51<Alberth>gtg unfortunately, tnx for all the discussion everybody. When I have resizing and my 3 windows working, I'll post it at the dev forum, so you can examine the code in more detail, and we can have a more solid discussion about the direction to go.
13:51<SmatZ>so memory fragmentation is really a problem
13:52<@peter1138>NDS can just stay with an old version.
13:52<@Belugas>a fork?
13:52<@peter1138>Until Nintendo produce a device with modern specifications...
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13:53<Eddi|zuHause3>,%205.%20Sep%201941.png <- i need diagonal bridges :(
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13:54<@Belugas>if your need is high enough, maybe you'll be able to code it ?
13:54<@peter1138>bendy bridges too!
13:55<Prof_Frink>bendy bridges for bendy buses!
13:55<@Belugas>and signals on it too!
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13:55<Eddi|zuHause3>i have signals on them, just the trains do not obey :p
13:55<joachim>ooh and signals in tunnels
13:55<@Belugas>one day ;)
13:56<@Belugas>that is going to be a bit more difficult, joachim
13:57<joachim>one day...
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13:58<@Belugas>i was not
13:58<@Belugas>"one daying" about that ;)
13:58<@Belugas>rather what Eddi|zuHause3 was talking about
13:58<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3, bah, the pause button does not work :(
13:59<joachim>Belugas: i know, i was one daying :)
13:59<Eddi|zuHause3>Belugas: i have thought about trains stopping on bridges for a while, the only proper solution i came up with would be removing the "if (v->u.rail.track != TRACK_BIT_WORMHOLE) {" from TrainController() and making some functions aware of "wormhole tiles"
13:59<Eddi|zuHause3>peter1138: yes, i noticed that bug, too :p
13:59<joachim>one day, some one must get bored enough... ~2030?
14:00<@Belugas>a lot of workmholes would be required to go, i think
14:02<@Belugas>ho ... shooo... no-commit time
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14:23<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r13885 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#2168]: Var 0x7F is not feature-specific.
14:24<@peter1138>frosch123: problem with that is you now have to always lookup the grf file even when it's not needed (and it rarely is)
14:26<frosch123>what do you mean with 'always' - that info is already available nearly always
14:30<@peter1138>Usually. Still more work than none, heh.
14:30*peter1138 needs Celestar's changed.
14:30*peter1138 needs Celestar's changes.
14:31<@peter1138>Uh, I think he had some :o
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14:44<Harteex>hello, anyone working on the Swedish translation here?
14:54<Harteex>full load is just translated as load
14:54<Harteex>it could be confusing to new players
14:55<Harteex>so I thought I'd mention it to a member on swedish translation team, if I can find out who's on it
14:57<@Belugas>although i doubt there are any swedish translators in here
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14:58<@Belugas>but i'll pass th info to Mihamix (the translation headchief) when he'llbe around
14:59<Harteex>thanks :)
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15:05<Eddi|zuHause3>a propos translation... there's quite a number of untranslated strings piling up in the german translation...
15:05<@Belugas>Mihamix is a bit too much in real life, i think :)
15:05<@Belugas>a new baby boy is ALWAYS a big source of work
15:06<@Belugas>up until he gooes out the house
15:06<@Belugas>... and even then, woukld my dad say :)
15:06<Forked>i love yapp.
15:06<@Belugas>o, i don't think it's his boy's name...
15:08-!-peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.1 | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | We Love YAPP
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15:23<Eddi|zuHause3>if we were Sacro, eventually things we love might get commited :p
15:24*Prof_Frink commits Bjarni
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15:27<Digitalfox>Where is Sacro, haven't seen him for a while now.. :\
15:27<Digitalfox>@seen sacro
15:27<@DorpsGek>Digitalfox: sacro was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 9 hours, 53 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Sacro> same as test and [
15:28<Digitalfox>Must ne on holidays :p
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15:35<Tim>Hi everyone!
15:35<Tim>Just some advertising... I posted a suggestion for the Website-Redesign in the Forums, check it out and tell me what you think :)
15:38<@peter1138>Digitalfox, probably sulking agian.
15:39<Digitalfox>peter1138 :(
15:43<@Belugas>Tim, it reminds me of the old translator. Not too fund about the grass tile background, to be honest
15:48<@peter1138>I like the current design :o
15:48<@Belugas>me too, really
15:48<Tim>looks nothing like the game...
15:48<@peter1138>Does it need to?
15:49<@Belugas>it depends on what you think it shold looklike. useing grasss background is not rwelly innovative
15:49<Ammler>maybe someone should just make a web 2.0 page with current design... :-)
15:50<@peter1138>Using the grass is like five million fan sites from 10 years ago.
15:50<@Belugas>if you want to look like the game, you end up looking like forums and like George's site
15:50*frosch123 dislikes the in game icons most
15:51<Ammler>you should more ask for a logo redesign...
15:51<Tim>Yes, that would be a good start, too
15:51<frosch123>OTTD page should not look like
15:51<@peter1138>Not everyone asked for a redesign :p
15:52<@Belugas>nor yet another clone site :)
15:52<Eddi|zuHause3><Tim> looks nothing like the game... <- the washington monument does not look like the guy either...
15:53<Ammler>it shouldn't be that hard to replace the image nav with a tiny css <ul> nav.
15:55<@Belugas>Tim, don't get it bad, tough. Contrary to a lot of guys, you did give it a try :)
15:55<@Belugas>so, i guess that now, you have a go at getting VERY creative ;)
15:55<@peter1138>Yeah, sheesh, I'm a professional (hah) web developer, and I didn't ;)
15:55<Tim>Hehe, no bad feelings here ;)
15:56<Prof_Frink>Ammler: Urgh, web2.0. Go for web0.1
15:56<@Belugas>you're also a ottd dev :) I wonder where your skills are better spent, peter1138 ;)
15:56<Prof_Frink>ascii text
15:57<Tim>Hm, maybe you could atleast replace that ugly lighthouse with a new graphic... I really hate that :D
15:57<Eddi|zuHause3>what about web 2010?
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15:59<Eddi|zuHause3>just a random idea: why do we not have different tunnel styles like we have bridge styles?
15:59<Eddi|zuHause3>[mostly for eyecandy purposes]
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15:59<frosch123>but you do not see a lot from tunnels...
16:00<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean, tunnels are not fundamentally different from bridges [anymore]
16:00<@Belugas>the heads, actually
16:00<Eddi|zuHause3>frosch123: but the entrances
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16:00<@Belugas>brick, wood, steel, rock entrances...
16:00<Ammler>dynamic tunnel entrance pool!
16:00<@Belugas>with flowers
16:01<@Belugas>where is my ignore button again?
16:02<Eddi|zuHause3>i was thinking about round vs. flat, and old vs. modern
16:03<@Belugas>get some drawing done, Eddi|zuHause3, it might be interesting
16:03<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause3: And while you're doing that, implement enhancedtunnels
16:03<Eddi|zuHause3>well, there are several tunnel grfs around, just that they affect all tunnels
16:04<@Belugas>where is my kick button again?
16:04<Tim>What about a changing background for the website, with screenshots from the game? Looks great (okay, you will hate it, but i think it'd be great) :P
16:05<@Belugas>too heavy, imho. I remember the french web site had that, and it was terrible (imho)
16:05<@Belugas>and it's still like the other sites ;)
16:05<@Belugas>Looking like the game
16:05<CIA-5>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13886 /branches/noai/bin/ai/wrightai/main.nut: [NoAI] -Codechange: minor typos in WrightAI
16:05<Tim>Well, its ottd :D
16:06<@Belugas>let's find something that is INSPIRED from the game, not that LOOKS like the game ;)
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16:12<Prof_Frink>Use a big pic of a class 43 as background!
16:13<Prof_Frink>Or an A4.
16:13<@Rubidium>Belugas: a SirkoZ rant?
16:13<@peter1138>I'll use a sheet of A4
16:14<@Belugas>Rubidium, that would be the best evr way to make everyone fleeing the game ;)
16:14<@Belugas>such a ...
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16:34<Tim>Wow, i just read that ludde also created scummvm and utorrent... Both programs i used to use :)
16:35<Tim>What happened to him, anyway?
16:35<bleepy>got eaten by a badger
16:35<bleepy>I might be lying
16:36<Tim>almost believed you ;)
16:36<Rexxars>I know this is totaly off-topic and all, but does anyone here have any experience with nameservers, domains and that sort of stuff?
16:37<Eddi|zuHause3>Tim: he was here not long ago
16:37<Eddi|zuHause3>i assume he found a new project to work on ;)
16:37<Eddi|zuHause3>there might have been talk about a media player kind of thing... but my memory is vague...
16:37<@Belugas>or a real life :)
16:38<Tim>Hm... I'm really curious... Nowhere it says that he left OpenTTD or why he left it...
16:39<@Belugas>dunno, was not around at the time
16:40<Eddi|zuHause3>well... he is like that... he starts a project, gets bored with it, and lets other people continue
16:41<Tim>I'm wondering if he plays OpenTTD from time to time...
16:41<@Belugas>don't think so
16:42<Eddi|zuHause3>playing tends to get in the way of actually doing anything :p
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16:47<ln>People's Republic of Denmark!
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16:49<@Bjarni>actually it's the Kingdom of Denmark
16:50<@Bjarni>a republic is for the people who beheads their royal family
16:51<@Bjarni>we keep our royal family as not only is it a nice family who knows how to act with their power and not abuse it they also earn more money for the country than they get from tax money
16:53<SmatZ>ah... that's why you pay so high taxes!
16:53<Ammler>but cars are cheap there...
16:54<@Belugas>alcool must be awfull, Bjarni does not drink
16:54<ln>Bjarni: do they have any real power?
16:57<SmatZ>Bjarni: do you have death penalty?
16:57<@Bjarni>§ 14
16:57<@Bjarni>Kongen udnævner og afskediger statsministeren og de øvrige ministre.
16:57<@Bjarni>that's the constitution
16:58<ln>Kan the kongen fire the parliament and order new election?
16:58<Eddi|zuHause3>king can appoint and dismiss state and higher ministers?
16:58<@Bjarni>§ 21
16:58<@Bjarni>Kongen kan for folketinget lade fremsætte forslag til love og andre beslutninger.
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16:59<@Belugas>time to flee home
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16:59<@Belugas>good evening all
16:59<Eddi|zuHause3>i understand only half of that sentence
17:00<SmatZ>google doesn't understand "folketinget"
17:00<ln>Eddi|zuHause3: folketinget is something like parliament
17:00<Eddi|zuHause3>that's the parliament i assume
17:00<Eddi|zuHause3>that's the part that i do understand :p
17:00<Ammler>Bjarni: do they still use the power?
17:00<Eddi|zuHause3>"folk" ~ "Volk" and "tinge" is some kind of meeting
17:01<ln>Eddi|zuHause3: beslutning is decision or so.
17:01<@Bjarni>basically the king can write a law and then the parlament have to look at it and vote for approving/dismissing it like with other proposed laws
17:01<Eddi|zuHause3>beschließen, yes
17:01<@Bjarni><Ammler> Bjarni: do they still use the power? <--- both yes and no
17:02<Ammler>like a minister...
17:02<Eddi|zuHause3>something along the lines of "the king can recommend something until they decide otherwise"
17:02<Eddi|zuHause3>but i have no idea who decides what
17:03<@Bjarni>basically the prime minister can't call for an election. He have to get the queen to do it for him (there is no king at the moment). There is no history of any king/queen refusing such a request though
17:03<@Bjarni>§ 3
17:03<@Bjarni>Den lovgivende magt er hos kongen og folketinget i forening. Den udøvende magt er hos kongen. Den dømmende magt er hos domstolene.
17:03<ln>aha! if the law says that kongen can do those things, what if the drottning can not?
17:04<@Bjarni>that's the 3 parts. The lawmakers, the law enforcement and the judges
17:04<@Bjarni>the king is in the lawmaker and the law enforcement
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17:05<Eddi|zuHause3>the german president can pretty much do nothing...
17:05<@Bjarni>ln: <-- go read it yourself. §2 answers your question
17:05<Eddi|zuHause3>he is allowed to sign laws that get presented to him :p
17:05<Eddi|zuHause3>[after they passed the parliament]
17:05<Eddi|zuHause3>[it does not say anything about the right to not sign them]
17:05<@Bjarni>yet he is refusing to sign the Lisbon treaty at the moment, which gives him some power
17:06<Ammler>we even don't have one, just a representing president...
17:06<@Bjarni>the last I heard of him was that he had decided to stall the Lisbon treaty approval in Germany until it's clear if it's ok according to German laws
17:07<Eddi|zuHause3>Ammler: you don't have a say in the treaty of lisbon either :p
17:08<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: yes, the high judges asked for that, until they decide
17:09<Eddi|zuHause3>"a decision during this year is improbable."
17:09<@Bjarni>I think the Lisbon treaty stuff is weird. Everybody have to agree to it or it's dead according to current treaties. Ireland discarded it yet all other countries acts like they approved
17:10<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: the purpose of the treaty is to abolish that rule, but until it is accepted, the rule is still valid :p
17:10<@Bjarni>The Polish president decided not to sign it before Ireland approves and they have to decide on that themselves without any pressure
17:11<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: the purpose of the treaty is to abolish that rule, but until it is accepted, the rule is still valid :p <-- yeah that's how it works in treaties.
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17:11<@Bjarni>however I don't think the pro EU politicians like it like that
17:23<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: does that mean ireland has voted against with a referendum?
17:23<Prof_Frink>Ammler: Aye
17:23<Eddi|zuHause3>Ammler: in what world do you live?
17:23<Prof_Frink>So the Irish govt. are planning to have another referendum until they get the reult they want.
17:23<Eddi|zuHause3>note: it was the only country that ran a referendum
17:24<Ammler>your are quite lucky, swiss isn't in the eu...
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>with the failed constitution the situation was quite similar... in the countries that actually let the people decide, it got rejected
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18:11*peter1138 ponders showing sources and destinations in vehicle views
18:12<Brianetta>reminds me, YAPP needs to show destination when waiting for a free path
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18:16<Eddi|zuHause3>it can't know the destination, it will change when the reserved tracks change, as the pathfinder penalizes them differently
18:16<@peter1138>print start->next
18:16<@peter1138>$24 = (Order *) 0xc072f8
18:16<@peter1138>print start->next->next
18:16<@peter1138>$26 = (Order *) 0x600000000
18:16<@peter1138>That looks a little wrong :o
18:16<Eddi|zuHause3>only off by some 8 zeroes ;)
18:16<Eddi|zuHause3>which amounts to nothing :p
18:16<SmatZ>8 * 0 = 0 :)
18:17<Eddi|zuHause3>exactly ;)
18:17<@peter1138>Why would it be wrong? :o
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18:31<Eddi|zuHause3>debuggers should be able to "step backwards" ;)
18:31<Eddi|zuHause3>to find out how a value was set ;)
18:31<@Rubidium>like undo in OTTD?
18:31<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, exactly :p
18:32<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... what i dislike about the industrial stations... they look totally dull when there is always a train loading, because they only look interesting when cargo is piling up...
18:39<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause3: Nah, you're doing it wrong.
18:39<Prof_Frink>You link the debugger to the control circuits in the TARDIS
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18:39<Prof_Frink>When you find a bug, you go back in time and fix it before it happens
18:40<@peter1138>Also, retroactively attach the debugger
18:41<@peter1138>And retroactively compile with debug symbols
18:41<Eddi|zuHause3>but you can't use the TARDIS when you are already part of events...
18:43<Eddi|zuHause3>,%202.%20Jan%201942.png <- nobody ever again tell me my stations are too big :p
18:43<@peter1138>Or not finished uploading.
18:44<Eddi|zuHause3>it's totally weird... it didn't do that before... it's really slow with uploading but says it's done 100%
18:44<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause3: "stations" eh?
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18:45<Eddi|zuHause3>there are at least two in the picture :p
18:45<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: and what did it do yesterday? The same...
18:46<Eddi|zuHause3>with "before" i meant "the last two years before the first instance of this problem"
18:46<@Rubidium>and your station is tiny ;)
18:46<Eddi|zuHause3>exactly :p
18:47<Eddi|zuHause3>but people complained about stations like this that they were oversized
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18:48<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause3> ... <- nobody ever again tell me my stations are too big :p <--- s/stations/(you know).... I don't believe you.... it's not like anybody would tell you anything like that
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18:48<dih> <-- hihihi
18:48<@Bjarni>btw it's only when talking about mobile phones that men claims "Mine is the smallest one" and are happy about it
18:48<Eddi|zuHause3>i know? why would you think that i know?
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22:30<nicfer>I have one idea for the webpage
22:30<nicfer>what about something like Wormux one?
22:30-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
22:30<nicfer>that means, using the wiki engine
22:36<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13887 /trunk/src/ (5 files):
22:36<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Replace numbers with Colours enum on autoreplace, build_vehicle, cheat, depot and dock guis.
22:36<CIA-5>OpenTTD: The fact that it goes alphabetically is pure coincidence.
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22:59<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13888 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Replace numbers with Colours enum on miscellaneous guis.
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23:13<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13889 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp:
23:13<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Replace numbers with Colours enum on transparency gui.
23:13<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix: "true" is not a color. COLOUR_PALE_GREEN should look better, at least in the code ;)
23:18<@Belugas>time to hit the bed, otherwise, i'll never finish...
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 31 00:00:44 2008