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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-08-04

---Logopened Mon Aug 04 00:00:16 2008
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01:25<@peter1138>Hm
01:27<@peter1138>Well, bollocks.
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02:00<CIA-5>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13987 /trunk/src/ (smallmap_gui.cpp widget.cpp): -Codechange: Resize small map legend dynamically on window resize and when switching small map types, so that the legend is taller only on the industry type and only when the legend will not fit in the available space.
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02:16<Celestar>morning
02:16<@peter1138>Hi
02:17<@peter1138>I just synced with trunk in case you want / are able to pull...
02:17<Celestar>I am :D
02:17<Celestar>hey! I wanted to constify m_cargo_type :P
02:18<@peter1138>:p
02:18<@peter1138>I've got a bit of a problem though.
02:19<@peter1138>I've got to go back to work today, and after two weeks there'll be a lot of catching up to do :o
02:19<Celestar>:(
02:19<Celestar>what problem?
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02:20<@peter1138>I'll try leaving my PC on so I can fiddle remotely, but the ADSL tends to drop when I go out...
02:21<Celestar>you can pull from my PC (=
02:22<Celestar>I could give you a login but it's a slowish box
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02:26<@peter1138>Just cloned onto a mostly idle PC at work with a fast connection...
02:26<@peter1138>So I can fiddle there ;)
02:26-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-228.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
02:27<Celestar>(=
02:27<Celestar>hm :S
02:27<@peter1138>Hmm, 65MB...
02:28<Celestar>peter1138: pull (=
02:30<Celestar>peter1138: if we arrive a station and the acceptence changed, do we go to INVALID_STATION do we assign a new destination?
02:31<@peter1138>You could even send them back home, hehehe
02:32<@peter1138>INVALID_STATION, probably.
02:34*Celestar nods
02:40<Celestar>peter1138: I'm trying to teach the routing class to handle the unload
02:41<Celestar>not economy.coo
02:41<Celestar>cpp*
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03:16<Celestar>heh .. much cleaner
03:16<Celestar>question is: does it work :P
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03:17<Celestar>/home/vici/openttd-cargodest/src/routing.cpp:690: error: passing ‘const CargoList’ as ‘this’ argument of ‘bool CargoList::MoveTo(CargoList*, uint, CargoID, CargoList::MoveToAction, uint, const Vehicle*)’ discards qualifiers
03:17<Celestar>gnaah
03:17<Celestar>I'm not passing a const CargoList you diphead
03:19<Noldo>are you sure
03:20<Celestar>nope :P
03:20<Celestar>not yet at least
03:21<Celestar>but I don't see the const
03:24<Celestar>:S
03:24<Celestar>the compiler won
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03:25<Wolf01>hello
03:26-!-Gekz_ [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
03:26<Celestar>hey Wolf01
03:29<Celestar>peter1138: ping
03:29<Celestar>peter1138: RFC http://www.fvfischer.de/unload.diff
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03:59<Celestar>peter1138: any comments?
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04:44<Celestar>peter1138: uploaded new diff
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05:16<@peter1138>Hmm
05:17<@peter1138>Celestar, char result -> uint8 result
05:19-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-108-163.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
05:19<@peter1138>Or better yet
05:19<@peter1138>an enum
05:20<@peter1138>with names instead of magic numbers ;)
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05:26<Celestar>yeah I'm planning to do this too (=
05:26<Celestar>peter1138: I've tried some distance-based destination generation
05:28<Celestar>peter1138: you don't have time for testing today, have you?
05:35<Celestar>peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/distance.diff
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05:54<dih>does it make sense that nicknames in the game can contain ':' ?
05:54<dih>there is like no character limit on the nickname
05:54<dih>which makes it hard to follow chat when looking at the server console
05:55<dih>because you dont know if the guy is names foobar: fish
05:55<dih>or just said fish: hello
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06:02<@peter1138>Celestar, no I don't.
06:08<Brianetta>http://bash.org/?873806
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06:20<Celestar>peter1138: tram networks are AWESOME
06:22<@peter1138>Do your transfers work now? :D
06:22-!-trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd
06:22<Celestar>peter1138: apparently
06:22<Celestar>(=
06:23<@peter1138>:D :D
06:23<Celestar>I'm just testing it
06:23<Celestar>http://www.fvfischer.de/trams.png
06:24<@peter1138>Be nicer if it wasn't all transparent :p
06:24<@peter1138>Try an out of town airport with no acceptance...
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06:25<Celestar>will do next
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06:26<Celestar>peter1138: the detailed analysis is TOTALLY useless
06:26<Celestar>peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/useless.png
06:26<@peter1138>Might be better when sorted.
06:27<Celestar>*might* ;)
06:27<Eddi|zuHause3>i still need reduced passenger generation :(
06:27<@peter1138>Yes, that too.
06:27<@peter1138>It's always rather high with TTRS.
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06:27<@peter1138>We need someone to compare it in TTDPatch...
06:28<@peter1138>If it does the same then it's a GRF bug ;)
06:28<@peter1138>Celestar, I think we should keep the full list in, though. Someone is bound to want it.
06:29<@peter1138>Also it would be nice if next-hop actually showed when passengers are leaving the vehicle instead of literally the next-hop
06:29<@peter1138>s/when/where/
06:30<@peter1138>Don't know if that's possible though.
06:30<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: no it works better now
06:30<Roujin>wow, you were that far with cargo destinations?
06:30<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: passengers are much more likely to go to nearby stations
06:30<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: so they won't clog your network that much
06:30<Celestar>Roujin: yes
06:31<Roujin>that's awesome :)
06:31<Celestar>5 items left on TODO for now
06:31<Roujin>congrats
06:31<@peter1138>The route map will have toggleable cargo legend, just like the industry view.
06:31<Kloopy>PBS -and- awesome progression on cargodests.. you're all on fire! :D
06:32<@peter1138>Hence me tidying up the smallmap window in trunk :D
06:32<Roujin>holy sh!t, first yapp goes into trunk and cargo destinations is that much progressed - w00t!
06:32<trainboy2004>:)
06:32<@peter1138>Roujin, well, we started from scratch ;)
06:32-!-Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-64-31.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
06:33<Roujin>noAI is progressing nicely too - if that's all going to be in 0.7, that's a giant leap O_O
06:33<Eddi|zuHause3>after you realised that the community attempts are all going to fail...
06:33<Chrill>hey, the DBset, is it still a WIP?
06:34<Eddi|zuHause3>Chrill: yes, MB is still working on a 0.9 version
06:34<Eddi|zuHause3>Chrill: check his thread in the forum
06:34<trainboy2004>cool :)
06:34<Chrill>ah :) I did but it was a mess and the first post contained no info
06:34<Eddi|zuHause3>the first post is like 5 years old...
06:34<Roujin>but you can use the current version too..
06:34<Chrill>My point exactly, Eddi|zuHause3
06:34<Roujin>it's kinda old now though
06:34<Chrill>Roujin, also my point exactly. Am using 0.82 or similar
06:35<@peter1138>Roujin, yeah, we might have to skip 0.7 altogether and go direct to 0.8 ...
06:35<Eddi|zuHause3>you'll find more current information towards the end of that thread ;)
06:35<Roujin>Eddi: that's the case generally in forums :P
06:36<Noldo>peter1138: what a waste of good version numbers
06:36<trainboy2004>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2480&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=2520#wrapheader
06:36<Chrill>What's the best RVset if you're looking into something with real trucks in many shapes? :P Say, like LV4 but with a bigger selection of trucks, as well as perhaps them not being "Long"
06:36<trainboy2004>here's a list with stuff released in 0.9
06:36<Celestar>peter1138: but yes, with that patch the "nonaccepting airport" scenario works
06:37<Chrill>thankoo
06:37<trainboy2004>somewhere in the middle of the page
06:37<Celestar>peter1138: shall I commit?
06:39<Celestar>Roujin: wanna test it? ;)
06:39<Celestar>what else should be in openttd 0.7? ;)
06:39<Roujin>Celestar: sure, I'm in :D
06:39<Ammler>Celestar: cbh :-)
06:40<Chrill>Will 0.7 support multiple trainsets/RVsets/etc.? :P
06:40<Roujin>Celestar: newgrf ports? :P
06:40<Celestar>Chrill: it's already in
06:40<Ammler>Chrill: already in trunk...
06:40<Chrill>or does 0.6.2 already do that?
06:40<Chrill>hah, im too slow
06:40<Celestar>Roujin: thinking of that
06:40<Roujin>not 0.6.*
06:40<Celestar>not sure whether it is 0.6*
06:40<Roujin>but trunk
06:40<Chrill>well well
06:40<Wolf01>do you think is possible to separate the vehicle list of a station in vehicles with loading and unloading order at that station? or at least sort the list by load/unload/transfer/non-stop
06:41<Roujin>it was trunked after 0.6.0, and 0.6.* are usually only fixes, no (big) features
06:41<Chrill>so then it will be in 0.7.*
06:41<Chrill>yes? :P
06:42<Roujin>it should be unless it turns out it seriously broke something and has to be taken out and reimplemented
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06:42<Celestar>Roujin: do you have mercurial?
06:43<Celestar>Roujin: http://galadriel.td.mw.tum.de:8000/
06:43<Roujin>nope, only subversion
06:43<Roujin>can it export a svn diff somehow?
06:43<Vikthor>Roujin: get mercurial, I assure you it is eorth it
06:43<Vikthor>*worth
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06:44<Celestar>Roujin: you on linux?
06:44<Roujin>nope, windows
06:44<Roujin>using mingw/msys/gcc to compile usually :P
06:45<Celestar>ah
06:45<Celestar>get mercurial (=
06:45<Celestar>then "hg pull <above_URL>
06:45<Celestar>er
06:45<Celestar>hg clone..
06:46<Roujin>on my way ;)
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06:47<Celestar>I can start a network server and you could play and we see if we get desyncs (=
06:50<Vikthor>Hmm openttd-hg $ hg pull galadriel.td.mw.tum.de:8000
06:50<Vikthor>abort: repository galadriel.td.mw.tum.de:8000 not found!
06:50<Celestar>Vikthor: http://
06:50<Celestar>that works (=
06:51<Vikthor>aha, thanks:D I was really puzzled, beacuse yesterday it was working alright
06:53<Roujin>ooh, there also exists a turtoise for mercurial ^_^
06:53<Roujin>i was afraid of losing the luxury from turtoisesvn :P
06:53<Roujin>brb in a minute..
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06:55<@peter1138>hg: unknown command 'branch'
06:55<@peter1138>/bin/sh: line 0: [: too many arguments
06:55<@peter1138>:o
06:55<bleepy>fail
06:55<@peter1138>Yes, fails to compile :(
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06:58<Celestar>peter1138: what fails to compile?
06:59<@peter1138>The makefile does not work with the version of hg i have... And that's on etch.
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07:02<Brianetta>dvcs are good
07:02<bleepy>I have no idea what that means
07:02<bleepy>:(
07:02<Brianetta>distributed version control system
07:03<bleepy>ohhhh
07:03<Roujin>svn is a centralized system right?
07:03<bleepy>yeah, still in one ear, out t'other
07:03<Brianetta>It's like SVN, except when you check out a repo, you can commit changes locally, and roll them back incrementally
07:03<Brianetta>Roujin: Totoally, yes
07:03<Brianetta>Only local operation is revert
07:03<Roujin>Brianetta: aha that's a nice feature
07:03<Brianetta>(to currently checked out revision)
07:04<Roujin>was wondering what the gain compared to svn was...
07:04<Brianetta>You can check out, say, OpenTTD, then use your local copy to develop a feature
07:04<Brianetta>over as many revisions as you need
07:04<Brianetta>Once you're done, you can check in a grand diff
07:05<Brianetta>or make a big patch file and send it, if the source is read-only to you
07:05<Celestar>and you get all the logs
07:05<SpComb>or have someone pull from you
07:05<Brianetta>thing is, if you don't have SVN commit access, you can't play, then revert a little if there was a mistake
07:05<Eddi|zuHause3>the info screen of a vehicle lacks a description where the cargo is going to...
07:05<Brianetta>SpComb: Yes
07:05<SpComb>although then if you check out e.g. the linux git repo, you need to pull in 2GB of history
07:05<SpComb>a `hg clone` of the OpenTTD repo is also a lot slower than a `svn co`
07:06<Roujin>yes i just noticed that ^^
07:06<@Rubidium>but making a second "checkout", i.e. branch is much quicker
07:06<Roujin>was wondering why it took so long but thanks to your explanations thats clear to me now
07:06<@Rubidium>as is checking the log
07:06<Roujin>now it's finished :D
07:06<Roujin>"added 19455 changesets with 43071 changes to 1558 files"
07:07<@Rubidium>now hg log will show you all trunk revisions since svn r1 ;)
07:08<Brianetta>Which do the devs use? I'm presuming that using either, arbitrarily, would complicate matters.
07:08<SpComb>and a `hg convert svn://...` is just a very bad idea
07:08<Ammler>why are there so many more changesets as the svn rev is?
07:08<Vikthor>Rubidium: which r1?
07:08<@Rubidium>the r975-ish r1
07:08<Roujin>!logs
07:08<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
07:08<Vikthor>the new, or the old?
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07:08<Vikthor>ah
07:08*Celestar still remember r700 of the OLD repo (=
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07:09*Celestar is an old bastard
07:09<Gekz>o.o!
07:09-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1D250.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
07:09*SpComb still remembers the first release of OpenTTD that presumeably didn't even have an svn repo!
07:09<Brianetta>I remember when tt-alter and ttdpatch were pretty much the same
07:10<Brianetta>I remember ttdpatch version 2.0
07:10<Roujin>Celestar: should i configure something special for your idea of having a network game to hunt for desyncs?
07:10<Brianetta>in fact, I still have it somewhere
07:11<SpComb>I also have the TTDPatch configuration thing that patchman's brother wrote (or something like that)
07:11<Roujin>well I'm pretty new to OpenTTD compared to you guys, but I've read the old topics ^_^
07:11<Ammler>Brianetta: isn't that the latest "stable", still?
07:11<Chrill>Brianetta, you still have your lovely OpenTTD server up and running?
07:11<Roujin>man, everyone was so hostile towards the project back then oO
07:11<Celestar>Roujin: no we just hope they don't occur
07:12<Celestar>Roujin: wait a sec I'll send you my newgrf pack
07:13<Roujin>oops, somethings going wrong..
07:13<Vikthor>Celestar:I might have found bug in 19454:ccae3e40e174, and I am able to reproduce it
07:14<Roujin>d:/ottddev/cargodest/trunk/src/routing.h:50:42: boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp: No such file or directory
07:14<Celestar>Roujin: http://www.fvfischer.de/celegrfs.tar
07:14<Celestar>Roujin: you need to get boost
07:14<Celestar>www.boost.org
07:15<Ammler>Celestar: not compatible with coop pack?
07:15<Eddi|zuHause3><Brianetta> I remember ttdpatch version 2.0 <- my first ttdpatch version was 1.7 or something
07:15<Celestar>Ammler: what do you mean?
07:15*Chrill thinks his first OpenTTD version was 0.4.7
07:15<Ammler>is your server running?
07:15<Brianetta>Eddi: Before all this new-fangled 0.* versioning (:
07:16<Ammler>Celestar: just wondering, if you have a GRF there, which is not in the coop pack...
07:16<Eddi|zuHause3>Celestar: still, the passengers appear to pile up more than without destinations
07:17<Roujin>Celestar: the .tar only contains one file "celegrfs" with no extensions..? :/
07:17<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: much much much more
07:17<Ammler>Roujin: your win hides the extension, maybe?
07:17<Roujin>or should i try another compressing program then
07:17<Eddi|zuHause3>and something is wrong..
07:17<Roujin>Ammler: nope
07:17<Celestar>Roujin: checking
07:17<Eddi|zuHause3>of 90 coal at a station, only 13 have a destination
07:18<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: it couldn't find any destination for the rest
07:18<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: it's known, working on it
07:18<Eddi|zuHause3>afair i only have one target station for coal
07:19<Eddi|zuHause3>coal and wood have very similar line colours...
07:19<Roujin>I'll probably go get 7z..
07:19<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: 1) yes, I know ^^, 2) that's the normal color
07:19<Celestar>Roujin: http://www.fvfischer.de/celegrfs.tar.bz2
07:19<Celestar>try those
07:21<Roujin>that worked
07:21<Roujin>thanks
07:21<Eddi|zuHause3>oh... right... i remember... i still have my unconnected very first route somewhere, that is another coal target
07:22<Celestar>Roujin: cooly
07:26<Brianetta>http://ppcis.org/standard/c/
07:26<Brianetta>Celestar: Not much going on there (:
07:27<Brianetta>If you have your own web site, do feel free to nab you rbanner etc
07:27<Eddi|zuHause3>sometimes delivery prices are highly inflated... once my tram makes +15, and the other time, my tram makes +24k
07:28<Brianetta>In real life, who steers trams?
07:28<Brianetta>Does the driver set the points ahead, or is it central?
07:29<trainboy2004>depends
07:29<Brianetta>This is a job for Wikipedia
07:29<trainboy2004>jub
07:29<Brianetta>This page is in the middle of an expansion or major revamping.
07:29<Brianetta>arse
07:29<trainboy2004>Vetag my friend
07:30<Vikthor>Brianetta: Here it is the driver
07:30<Eddi|zuHause3>Brianetta: here, the driver sends signals to the switches
07:30<Brianetta>There's no real signalling, then? Just good brakes
07:31<Eddi|zuHause3>trams must have braking distances comparable to other road vehicles
07:31<Celestar>Brianetta: in munich, the driver controls the switches
07:31<trainboy2004>depends light rails / trams
07:31<Eddi|zuHause3>and trams have signals like road signals, just without the colours
07:31<trainboy2004>do have real signals
07:31<Eddi|zuHause3>and they recognise incoming trams automatically
07:31<trainboy2004>but street trams like in amsterdam don't
07:32<trainboy2004>they are just trafficlights and direction lights for the switches
07:32<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, that's what i mean
07:33<Eddi|zuHause3>trams must be able to stop at traffic lights, like trucks or cars
07:33<Celestar>Brianetta: and you have lights: | (go); - (halt); v (stop); / (go right only); \ (go left only) and stuff. taxis/buses use them as well
07:33<trainboy2004>jup
07:33<Brianetta>That's just road signalling
07:33<trainboy2004>some trafficlights are special they tranponders and there fore give trams priority above the rest
07:34<Eddi|zuHause3>on switches, they often have precedence rules for trams coming from different directions
07:34<Eddi|zuHause3>so, basically it is driving on sight
07:34<Eddi|zuHause3>not really signalled
07:34*Brianetta nods
07:34<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: but the first tram locks down the switch
07:35<Celestar>and it's locked until it is freed again by the vehicle
07:35<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm not sure how they handled that, here
07:36<Celestar>there must be some locking
07:36<Celestar>otherwise they'd derail all the time
07:36<Celestar>Roujin: you connecting? (=
07:36<Brianetta>Track circuit or pressure switches
07:37<Kloopy>There was that teenager who worked out how the tram priority system worked in a real life city somehwere, wasn't there.. It was a simple infra-red device and he used a universal remote to alter all the lights in the city.
07:37<Kloopy>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/11/tram_hack/
07:38<Roujin>Celestar: currently unpacking boost...
07:38<Celestar>ah
07:38<Roujin>then wondering how exactly to use it ^_^
07:39<Celestar>Brianetta: track circut afaik
07:39<Celestar>at least from how they look
07:42<Eddi|zuHause3>Celestar: i have a feeling on transfer, some cargo is lost
07:42<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: possibly, bear in mind that some of the "transferring" cargo is actually destined for the station in question
07:42<Roujin>holy ... the boost package has so many files it takes ages x_x
07:43<Eddi|zuHause3>Celestar: or this might be an instance of the non-accepting bug?
07:44<Eddi|zuHause3>together with the cargo that does not get destionations...
07:44<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: the non-acceptance bug should be solved by now
07:44<Celestar>Roujin: you only need the graph library (=
07:45<Eddi|zuHause3>all i know is that only a very small fraction of wood that is delivered to my local transfer station ends up being loaded into the long distance cargo train
07:45<Eddi|zuHause3>and so my entire network gets stuck, because of trains piling up
07:45<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: show me an example savegame please
07:46<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: or use -d routing=5,cargopacket=5
07:46<Celestar>and see what happens (=
07:46<Celestar>TTRS looks really nice in the 1930s
07:47<Eddi|zuHause3>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%202.%20Jan%201972.sav
07:47<Eddi|zuHause3>i hope ;)
07:47<Eddi|zuHause3>find the station "Rüsselswald Waldfrieden"
07:47<Eddi|zuHause3>enable destinations for all cargo
07:48<Celestar>I'm timing out on that link ..
07:49<Eddi|zuHause3>bad...
07:50<Eddi|zuHause3>i can't do anything when the server is down..
07:50<Celestar>don't sorry.
07:51<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: you got my latest changes right?
07:51<Eddi|zuHause3>i did hg pull like an hour ago
07:51<Celestar>70 minutes ago was the last significate change
07:51<Eddi|zuHause3>only a fraction (like 1/10) of the wood delivered to the transfer station ends up at the next train
07:52<Eddi|zuHause3>pulling from http://galadriel.td.mw.tum.de:8000
07:52<Eddi|zuHause3>searching for changes
07:52<Eddi|zuHause3>no changes found
07:53<Eddi|zuHause3>server appears to work now
07:53<Brianetta>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:VW-Cargotram-Dresden.jpg
07:53<Brianetta>That rocks
07:54<Eddi|zuHause3>Brianetta: it's in the german RV set
07:54<Brianetta>I was disappointed to find no valuables carriers in the Generic Trams set
07:56<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: found the problem
07:56<Celestar>hmz
07:56<Celestar>big problem
07:57<trainboy2004>it's in the german RV pack
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07:57<trainboy2004>the VW cargo tram
07:57<trainboy2004>i can't w8 for the trucks ;)
08:00<Wolf01>eeek, I tried the snow in temperate grf I had, it makes the game really weird and crashes
08:00<Wolf01>there is a newer version of it?
08:02<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think snow in temperate is supported
08:02<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: I might have a diff for you in a minute
08:03<Celestar>testing first
08:03<Progman>Celestar, Eddi|zuHause3: how do you compile from http://galadriel.td.mw.tum.de:8000? "make" gives me "Makefile:81: *** multiple target patterns. Stop."
08:03<Eddi|zuHause3>Progman: i type "make" and it works...
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08:04<Progman>I did and it doesn't ;)
08:04<dih>Wolf01, if i am not mistaken that was used for the first wwottdgd
08:04<Celestar>Progman: you did configure, did you not?
08:05<Progman>yes
08:05<dih>where we had hardcoded reagons
08:06<Progman>aah, maybe I know...
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08:06<Progman>yeah, working
08:07<Progman>"make" failes if the checkout directory contains a ":"
08:08<Roujin>since when does the makefile include an invalid grep command?
08:08<Roujin>"grep: invalid option -- m" oO
08:10<Eddi|zuHause3> -m, --max-count=NUM stop after NUM matches
08:10<Eddi|zuHause3>maybe you have an invalid grep ;)
08:10<Celestar>hm .. damn
08:10<Roujin>-m is not --m
08:10<Roujin>i .. think ..
08:12<Celestar>damn
08:12<Celestar>we musn't generate packets without destinations
08:12<@peter1138>Ever?
08:12<@peter1138>Why not?
08:13<Eddi|zuHause3>they apparently get lost during transfers
08:14<@peter1138>If it's a forced transfer they should transfer, otherwise they just unload like normal...
08:14<Celestar>peter1138: simple: assume you have a forest at A, a forest at B and a sawmill at C
08:14<Celestar>peter1138: you have a A<->B and B<->C
08:14<Celestar>now B generates a packet without destination
08:15<Celestar>a train from A arrives and boards said packet
08:15<Celestar>and then starts to shuffle the packet around from A to B all the time
08:16<@peter1138>No different to how it works in trunk... hmm...
08:16<@peter1138>Why would B generate cargo with no destination?
08:16<Celestar>peter1138: for whatever reason
08:16<Celestar>for example because we didn't hit a station that we could reach
08:17<@peter1138>But it can reach C...
08:18<@peter1138>But may not if the route is interrupted somehow
08:18<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm not sure why they don't get destinations... there is only one acceptable destination in the network
08:18<@peter1138>How many stations are there?
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08:19<ln>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2470310/Sexual-harrassment-okay-as-it-ensures-humans-breed%2C-Russian-judge-rules.html
08:19<Eddi|zuHause3>lots of forest stations, some transfer stations, one target station
08:19<Eddi|zuHause3>and very many unrelated stations
08:19<@peter1138>Celestar, maybe each routing thing needs a cache of reachable stations, and then the random destination is picked from that instead of all stations
08:19<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: I was after a rough number.
08:20<Eddi|zuHause3>10:2:1 or something
08:20<Eddi|zuHause3>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%202.%20Jan%201972.sav <- savegame
08:20<Celestar>peter1138: the hopcache contains which stations are reachable
08:21<Eddi|zuHause3>needs enabling of destinations
08:21<Eddi|zuHause3>problem is visible on basically all cargo transfers
08:22<Eddi|zuHause3>e.g. station "Rüsselshorst Waldfrieden" (wood, ore), "Düsseldorf Gbf" (coal)
08:22<Eddi|zuHause3>Dortmund, not Düsseldorf
08:23<Eddi|zuHause3>man... i have no idea how i ever could manage this station without YAPP...
08:24<Vikthor>Am I mad when I compile two versions of openttd at once?
08:25<+glx>Vikthor: no
08:25<+glx>I usually compile 3 at once (with -j4)
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08:33<Vikthor>19454:ccae3e40e174 is giving me SIGSEGV, when I build train, and then try to move the last wagon(or loco) to middle of the consist. It does not happens with trunk.
08:35<Progman>Celestar: working as intend? An airport outside and catcharea reach dont show cargo ratings even if there are a lot of pax departing and arriving
08:35<Progman>s/and/any/
08:36<Celestar>ratings are only generated if cargo is originating or ending there
08:36<Celestar>pure transfer points don't have a rating afaik
08:36<Progman>indeed, but maybe they should ;)
08:38<Celestar>possibly
08:38<Eddi|zuHause3>my wood and ore transfers show a rating
08:38<Celestar>but that's a feature to add later (=
08:38<Progman>the legend in route network minimap should explain that white is "via air", blue is "via truck" and so on
08:38<Eddi|zuHause3>but maybe because it's an old savegame
08:38<Celestar>Progman: the legend in the route network is WIP (by peter ;)
08:40<Eddi|zuHause3>Progman: the colours are cargos, not means of transportation ;)
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08:41<Celestar>that's true as well
08:41<Celestar>there will possibly be both views
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08:42<@peter1138>Celestar, C99 does not work in MSVC...
08:42<@peter1138>Progman: white is mail, blue is passengers, actually...
08:43<+glx>Vikthor: I can reproduce :)
08:43<@peter1138>Oh, Eddi said...
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08:44<Progman>hmm, the cargo list of a bus/truck isn't changed, is it? cos it shows first "31 pax from A" and while unloading it changed the target station
08:44<Celestar>peter1138: C99 ??
08:44<Celestar>peter1138: this IS c++ right?
08:44<Progman>it looks weird to show "31 pax from A" -> "28 pax from A" -> "20 pax from D" -> "11 pax from C" -> "4 pax from B"
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08:45<@peter1138>Celestar, yes...
08:45<@peter1138>but foo[bar] is C99, not C++
08:47<Celestar>even if bar is const int?!
08:47<@peter1138>Err
08:47<@peter1138>char buffer[strlen(messagebuffer) + strlen(cargobuffer) + 1];
08:47<Celestar>oh (=
08:47<Celestar>use std::string then (=
08:47<@peter1138>Damn, I need dxguid.lib :o
08:48<SpComb>meep meep
08:49<+glx>peter1138: disable directmusic
08:51<Celestar>peter1138: there's a simple workaround to the "must deliver cargo" problem ...
08:52<Eddi|zuHause3><Vikthor> 19454:ccae3e40e174 is giving me SIGSEGV, when I build train, and then try to move the last wagon(or loco) to middle of the consist. It does not happens with trunk. <- i just got the same thing, i had two mail wagons without engine, and wanted to separate them
08:53<dih>i have the distinct feeling that the dedicated console will not read chars such as öäü
08:53<+glx>MSVC fails to compile \o/
08:54<dih>yet again, glx :-P
08:54<Progman>what about a new cargo station view "Destination and next hop", is it possible?
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08:54<dih>hello rortom
08:55<dih>yet when umlauts are chatted in the game - they reach the console fine
08:55<dih>just console -> game does not work
08:55<rortom>hi
08:55<rortom>oh
08:55<rortom>with the bot?
08:56<@peter1138>Celestar: which is what?
08:56<dih>dedicated console to the game (say "hällö")
08:56<Celestar>peter1138: have UpdateStationWaiting return whether the cargo has been moved?
08:56<rortom>(just back from paris)
08:56<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13988 /trunk/ (9 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: move the to IP resolving functions to a separate file.
08:56<dih>results in "[All] apPlus: h ll "
08:57<+glx>char buffer[strlen(messagebuffer) + strlen(cargobuffer) + 1]; <-- char *buffer = AllocaM(char, char buffer[strlen(messagebuffer) + strlen(cargobuffer) + 1);
08:57<dih>2 chars for one umlaut char :-P
08:57<@peter1138>Celestar: as I already said, that makes industry production values pretty meaningless.
08:57<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... after loading the autosave game, the "via" statistics are totally screwed
08:58<dih>does openttd support unicode?
08:58<Eddi|zuHause3>dih: yes
08:58<Eddi|zuHause3>it's supposed to be all unicode
08:58<Celestar>peter1138: nope. because the place where UpdateStationWaiting is called (it's only one function) handles that quite nicely
08:58<dih>i.e. if i do say "\u<code for ä>" it will actually get into the game
08:59<@peter1138>Celestar, it handles the statistics correctly, yes
09:01<Celestar>peter1138: because this one also "reduces" the actually moved stuff for ratings
09:01<Eddi|zuHause3>dih: i don't think so
09:01<dih>shite
09:02<dih>how can i communicate special chars to the game - it works the other way round...!
09:02<+glx>about the segfault: train_cmd:1286 uint32 mask_old = GetCargoForSharedVehicles(GetFirstVehicleFromSharedList(dst_head)); <-- dst_head is NULL
09:03<@peter1138>Celestar: i->this_month_production will be wrong
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09:03<Eddi|zuHause3>dih: make a bug report!
09:03<Celestar>peter1138: how?
09:03<@peter1138>it will adjust by the original amount, not the amount actually moved
09:04<Eddi|zuHause3>dih: obviously there is a wrong conversion inbetween
09:04<Celestar>peter1138: well, it will adjust my the amount the MoveGoodsToStation said it moved
09:05<Celestar>uint am = MoveGoodsToStation(i->xy, i->width, i->height, i->produced_cargo[j], cw); i->this_month_transported[j] += am;
09:05<@peter1138>Yeah, but further back needs to be adjusted too
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09:05<@peter1138>Just above that, where it adds cw
09:06<Eddi|zuHause3>the route network is totally borked after loading a savegame
09:06<@peter1138>In what way?
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09:07<Eddi|zuHause3>the routes are not rebuilt
09:07<@peter1138>Right, reset the economy options
09:07<@peter1138>The settings are not loaded correctly yet.
09:07<@Belugas>hello boyz and men
09:08<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: you wanna test a patch?
09:08<Eddi|zuHause3>oh, yes, that helped ;)
09:08<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: http://www.fvfischer.de/destupdate.diff
09:09<Eddi|zuHause3>Celestar: shoot
09:09<Celestar>try that for your wood network (stop all trains and wait for the non-destination cargo to expire)
09:11<Celestar>WTH .. our server has 42TB of data on the backup
09:11<Gekz>
09:11<Eddi|zuHause3>recursive backups are cool ;)
09:11<Celestar>apparently :P
09:11<Gekz>Celestar: IDEA
09:11<Eddi|zuHause3>very... exponential ;)
09:12<Gekz>New industry
09:12<Gekz>Hard drive backups
09:12<Celestar>er peter1138. i->this_month_production has nothing to do with how and where cargo is delivered
09:12<Gekz>ship them tapes to the warehouse
09:12<Gekz>QUICK SMART
09:12<Celestar>"never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of DVD-Rs"
09:12<Gekz>lol
09:12<Gekz>it would be ossom
09:13<Eddi|zuHause3>i can double my bandwidth with like 2 DVDs a week
09:13<@peter1138>Celestar, no, but it's the statistic of how much cargo was generated.
09:13<@peter1138>If we don't generate cargo then it should reflect that.
09:13<Eddi|zuHause3>which reminds me...
09:14<Celestar>peter1138: er no. i->this_month_transported is the stat how many cargopackets were generated
09:14<@peter1138>i'm talking about i->this_month_*production*
09:14<Celestar>i->this_month_production is the theoretical limit of i->this_month_transported (if your ratings are 100%)
09:15<@peter1138>By not adjusting this_month_production you are penalising the player because we couldn't find a destination
09:15<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13989 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2186] (r13953): YAPP track reservation for crashed trains was broken for depots and wormholes (michi_cc).
09:16<Celestar>peter1138: TransportIndustryGoods. mesa no tink so
09:17<@peter1138>That's exactly where I'm talking about.
09:17<Celestar>I fail to see your point (=
09:17<@peter1138>Clearly :)
09:17*Celestar wonders why the settings are not updated
09:18<@peter1138>Because I didn't fix it yet after you asked me to.
09:18<Celestar>peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/destupdate.diff <= that way, it will always find a destination
09:18<@peter1138>The settings are loaded after it's initialised...
09:20<Celestar>where are they loaded? :o
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09:22<Celestar>well we could do it in AfterLoadGame, but it doesn't feel right
09:22<japa>can anybody here help me with something?
09:23<japa>vis-a-vis running in linux?
09:24<Celestar>?
09:25<japa>ever since I installed 0.60 through adept, my nightlys won't run
09:27<ln>you're giving too detailed information
09:27<dih>i cannot fine where IsInsideMM is defined....
09:28<dih>video/dedicated_v.cpp:244 is causing the issue
09:28<dih>if (!IsInsideMM(input_line[i], ' ', 256))
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09:28<@Belugas>japa, could you detail a bit more?
09:28<@Belugas>what's the error?
09:29<@Belugas>why mixing 0.6 and nightlies?
09:29<dih>i am guessing that the 256 is too low to allow special chars
09:29<dih>such as äöü
09:29<@Belugas>japa i bet you have only one config file and is been shared by both programs
09:29<japa> /home/japa/OTTD-linux-i686-nightly-r13800/openttd: error while loading shared libraries: libexpat.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
09:29<japa>does that help?
09:30<dih>SmatZ: ^ what was your fix for that?
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09:30<dih>japa: you need to symlink something
09:30<@Belugas>japa: ohhh... linux... well... I cannot help you at all, sorry. But i'm sure others are more aware of that OS
09:30<japa>that's what I've been told
09:31<dih>japa: you can simply ln -s libexpat.so.1.5 libexpat.so.0
09:31<dih>i just cannot remember the path of it :-P
09:31<dih>/usr/lib/ perhaps?
09:32<dih>just symlink one of them to .0 and you will be fine
09:32<japa>so 0.5.1 should be symlinked?
09:33<dih>does not matter which one
09:33<@SmatZ>dih: Ammler already replied :)
09:33-!-kais58 [~kais58@78.149.59.44] has joined #openttd
09:33<@SmatZ>and so did you :)
09:33<dih>you will most likely find that one is a symlink to the other anyway
09:33<kais58>that was a good guess
09:33<Ammler>that was doublie support :-)
09:34<dih>hehe
09:34<dih>still - i dont know where IsInsideMM is defined... i cannot find it ... :-(
09:34<Celestar>peter1138: we have to give the destination generation more thought methinks
09:34<Celestar>peter1138: we can't loop and loop and loop and loop
09:35<japa>grr... symlinking isn't working
09:36<dih>sudo!
09:36<Wolf01>I don't know if I'm stupid or what, but I can't understand on how to make ECS mines to have unlimited resources... it says 7 - No closure and endless mines and unlimited storage place, I put 7 and they last for 15 years then close... any cheat which overrides grf parameters like no new industries, place industries everywhere and no industry closures?
09:36<japa>root console
09:36<dih>yuck!
09:36<dih>then symlink the full path
09:36<Celestar>japa: onto libexpat.so.1
09:36<Celestar>at least that's what have
09:36<dih>ln -s /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1 /usr/lib/libexpat.so.0
09:38<Ammler>Wolf01: do you have newest ECS industries?
09:38<Wolf01>yes
09:38<Ammler>but it might be the switch does only disable ECS behaviour to close
09:38<Ammler>openttd builtin closeing can still be there...
09:39<Progman>Wolf01: which grf exactly?
09:39<Wolf01>ECS, all
09:39<Ammler>not every grf has the parameter at 1.
09:39<Wolf01>I'm looking at the wiki to set the parameters
09:39<Progman>and there are several versions of ECS
09:40<Wolf01>Progman, I have the newest version
09:40<Progman>maybe you dont
09:40<Wolf01>maybe yes?
09:40<@peter1138>Celestar, no, we can't. Can we use that hopcache?
09:41<Progman>which town vector do you have?
09:41<Wolf01>beta4 of april
09:41<Progman>its not the newest
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09:41<Wolf01>I downloaded from the site
09:42<Eddi|zuHause3>Celestar: appears to work a lot better now ;)
09:42<@peter1138>Celestar, pull from http://84.246.155.101:8000/
09:42<Progman>btw.: which vector doesn't work with the parameter about closing?
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09:43<Wolf01>coal and iron ore mines continue to have limited resources
09:43<Ammler>Progman: do we have the newest vectors in our pack?
09:43<japa>ok, I know know symlinks to symlinks don't work
09:44<Wolf01>and this time I didn't tried the oil rigs/wells
09:44<Ammler>japa: should
09:44<Progman>Ammler: dont know, you manage the newgrfs ;)
09:44<Ammler>only symlink to itself doesn't
09:44<japa>this one didn't
09:44<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01: limits won't change in existing games
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09:44<Eddi|zuHause3>must start a new game
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09:44<Wolf01>I started a new game because of that
09:45<@peter1138>ECS?
09:45<Ammler>Progman: that's why I asking... :P
09:45<@peter1138>Solution is to use PBI...
09:45<dih>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2189
09:45<Wolf01>I'm playing 15 years games because the mine I'm starting from will close after 15 years, and I don't want to begin again all my network from another mine
09:45<Ammler>peter1138: PBI isn't easier...
09:46<@peter1138>No, but it's less shit.
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09:46<Ammler>the graphics of ECS aren't that nice.
09:46<Progman>Ammler: I just got town vector beta5 from george beside the normal newgrf package
09:46<Wolf01>I agree with peter1138, each time I try ECS i'll finish to close the game without saving and I need to kill something on other games
09:47<@Belugas>at least, you do not need to kill anyone...
09:47<Progman>you must indeed need more care about the parameter of ecs ;)
09:47<Eddi|zuHause3>if your network depends on exactly one mine, you might have to reconsider your playing style ;)
09:47<Ammler>I played my cargo dest game with ECS, no problems...
09:48<Wolf01>I'm only trying to play a nice sandbox game, but seem impossible with this micro management
09:48<Ammler>I just had to dig the "whole" self, after the sand pit disapeared and got empty...
09:49<Progman>got empty? if you use a parameter of value 7 you got 16mio tons waiting ;)
09:49<Eddi|zuHause3>is there any way i could revive my yapp v3 game with trunk?
09:49<Ammler>it is fun to look for alternatives, if you see there is only about 1k left of a mine...
09:50<Ammler>and if you are too lazy to do that, you could just fund a new one at same place...
09:51<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: I might consider your comment about the pax generation
09:51<Celestar>http://www.fvfischer.de/HELP.png
09:52<Progman>*g*
09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>;)
09:52<Celestar>of these 10000, 9500 try to use the trams :P
09:53<Gekz>Ruffles
09:53<Gekz>Celestar: THATS A FUCKING MESS
09:53<Gekz>Mind the French.
09:53<@peter1138>TTRS has always produced tons of passengers
09:54<Gekz>time to fix that?
09:54<@peter1138>Belugas, sorry for smashing up your smallmap industry stuff :o
09:54<Celestar>Gekz: there's no need to fix it
09:54<Celestar>Gekz: there's need for a better network
09:54<Gekz>!
09:54<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r13990 /trunk/src/network/core/host.cpp: -Fix (r13988): win32 compilation failed
09:54<Celestar>all the train network works nicely
09:55<Gekz>Celestar: do all the yellow results have to be shown
09:55<Gekz>or can you jsut show the black "to <town>" parts
09:55<@peter1138>It's switchable
09:55<Gekz>thank jesus and some of his friends
09:55<@peter1138>That's the full list because there's bound to be someone who wants it.
09:56<@peter1138>It can also show just destinations or just next-hop
09:56<Eddi|zuHause3>the old patch had the option to reduce cargo by factor 2^n
09:56<Celestar>peter1138: next hop is best (=
09:56<Celestar>at least with a station like this one where there are 6 next-hops
09:56<@peter1138>Celestar, I'd still prefer next transfer, but think it's not possible yet.
09:56<Gekz>Celestar: yeah
09:56<Gekz>that would be nice
09:57<Gekz>I could make the Australian rail network!
09:57<Gekz>that would be awesome
09:57<Celestar>peter1138: that'd be cool. but that's not a must-have for the time being possibly
09:57<Gekz>then we'd have to implement a riot newgrf
09:57<Wolf01>so, if ECS vectors on George's site aren't the newest version, and the ECS topic doesn't have the newest version, where can I get the newest version?
09:57<Gekz>and 4 hour late trains by force
09:57<Eddi|zuHause3>my last game i played with factor 2^4 there
09:57<Progman>Wolf01: at least by asking george ;)
09:57<Celestar>did it work? (=
09:58<Progman>Wolf01: as some documentations on http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSBasicVector based on beta5, not beta4
09:58<+glx>peter1138: http://glx.dnsalias.net:3980/rev/fa08e5b270ee
09:58<Ammler>Progman: there is a beta5?
09:58<Progman>Ammler: I got the town vector of beta5
09:59<Ammler>from?
09:59<Progman>george
09:59<Ammler>inofficial?
09:59<Gekz>un,
09:59<Ammler>as it is not on the download page
09:59<Progman>not sure, thats I won't contribute it by myself
10:00<Wolf01>Progman, I'm reading the documentation to set the parameters, but nothing changed for iron ore and coal mines
10:00<Wolf01>I'm trying with all the possible combinations
10:01<Progman>Wolf01: I run the basic vector beta4 with parameters "1 7" and it works fine
10:01<Progman>and machinery beta4 with parameter "7"
10:02<@peter1138>glx: poke it at celestar ;)
10:02<Progman>so I don't have stocks and every primary industries got 16.7 mio tons cargos left
10:03<@Belugas>peter1138, it does not matter :) it's for the best
10:03<+glx>Celestar: http://glx.dnsalias.net:3980/rev/fa08e5b270ee ;)
10:03<@Belugas>i cannot nold it against you to improve the game, peter1138 :)
10:03<Celestar>glx: what about std::string ;)
10:03<Celestar>glx: but ok checking
10:05<@peter1138>Celestar: http://84.246.155.101:8000/
10:05<@peter1138>;)
10:05<+glx>why do you change your IP that often?
10:05<Celestar>peter1138: awesome
10:05<@peter1138>home vs work
10:06<Celestar>peter1138: how do I pull your two changes now?
10:06<@peter1138>Just pull it...
10:06<Wolf01>Now I'll set all the parameters on all the vectors, if I'll find another industry closure when serviced I'll remove all newindustries and I'll play with original ones
10:07<Ammler>hg pull <url>
10:07<Ammler>:-)
10:08<Ammler>stockpiles, limits etc. are the reasons to take ECS
10:08<Ammler>the graphics aren't
10:08<Progman>Wolf01: you know if the parameters are loaded correctly if the primary industries got cargos like 16.7mio
10:09<Celestar>peter1138: ok
10:09<Progman>meh, I dont use ECS for the stockpiles or limits ;)
10:10<Wolf01>I put: town 0 0 1 15, basic 0 15, all the others: 7
10:10<Celestar>peter1138: testing it
10:10<Ammler>the coal mine looks like power platn and the power plant looks like a nuclear plant
10:10<Progman>15?
10:10<Celestar>glx: committed your change
10:10<Wolf01>1+2+4+8
10:10<+glx>I saw :)
10:10<Celestar>(=
10:11<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: that patch I gave you, does that fix the wood probem?
10:11<Progman>aah, serviced industries
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10:14<Ammler>Progman: does ECS allow someone to build industries together?
10:14<Ammler>adjacent
10:14<Celestar>meh compiling everything sucks at times
10:15<Wolf01>"coal left 93,910 tonnes"
10:15<Wolf01>...
10:15<Celestar>peter1138: got a sec?
10:15<Wolf01>and it's decreasing
10:15<ln>a secant?
10:16<Celestar>yeah
10:16<Celestar>1/sin
10:16<ln>that one exactly.
10:16<ln>or is it even 1/cos
10:16*Celestar shrugs
10:16-!-Roujin [~Roujin@p54973B51.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
10:17<Wolf01>for all the industries it says "remain 0 months (0-undef)"
10:17<Progman>Wolf01: then the parameter isn't loaded
10:17<@peter1138>Hmm?
10:17<Wolf01>Eh, I want to know why
10:17<ln>cosecant would be 1/sin if wikipedia is to be trusted.
10:17<nikke10292>sec is 1/cos
10:17<Celestar>peter1138: toggleable map is awesome, but I have two buts (=
10:17<nikke10292>cosec is 1/sin
10:17<Progman>Ammler: I only know there are a lot of restrictions where to build an ECS industrie
10:17<Celestar>yeah, nikke10292 sorry :(
10:18<@peter1138>BUT!
10:18<@peter1138>we want to show route *type*
10:18<Celestar>peter1138: but 1) "Disable all" enables everything for me
10:18<Eddi|zuHause3>Celestar: yes, it does (as far as i can see)
10:18<@peter1138>Haha
10:19<Celestar>peter1138: but 2) we might want to chose other colors at some time. the default ones are difficult to see (or is it my laptop display, with a sun in the background)
10:19-!-planetmaker is now known as pm
10:19<@peter1138>The default colours are the cargo's legend colour...
10:19-!-pm is now known as planetmaker
10:19<Celestar>peter1138: yeah. keep em, I'll just boost the brightness (=
10:19<Eddi|zuHause3>when i load the pre-cargodest game, the "legacy" cargo gets lost for a while, and then the new cargo gets destinations
10:20<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: is that good or bad? :P
10:20<Eddi|zuHause3>it is better than before ;)
10:20<Celestar>with my patch?
10:20<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: the 'legacy' cargo is shown the same way as non-enroute cargo is shown without destinations: not.
10:20<Eddi|zuHause3>maybe, if such a "legacy" cargo without destination appears at a transfer station, you should let a destination finder run
10:21-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@ndb.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: Wezz6400]
10:21<Eddi|zuHause3>but that is probably only a transition problem
10:22<Celestar>it is
10:22<Celestar>because no more cargo without destinations in generated
10:23<Wolf01>Oh I found another problem with YAPP: don't even try to place this http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Image:PartlyDoubleTracks.png between two approaching trains
10:23<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3, originally no destination made it crash, so this is an improvement ;)
10:23<Eddi|zuHause3>:p
10:23<@peter1138>Wolf01: that counts as user error...
10:25<Eddi|zuHause3>peter1138: how safe is it to enable newgrf pool for an old savegame?
10:26<Wolf01>eheh, the old behavior is too safe, it allowed to work while trains were running on the track without any problem, just put a signal between two trains... now it's unsafe to try to change something while trains are running, but if you do it while no trains are in the segment you'll succeed always, this implementation of PBS is way more stable than the first one
10:27<Roujin>Celestar: sorry, had to leave for a while, am now back. I kinda don't know where to put the Boost stuff.. in a subdir of the checkout?
10:28<Roujin>or "clone" rather
10:28<+glx>Celestar: segfault fixed in my repo
10:29-!-trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
10:30<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3, bwahaha
10:30<@peter1138>hg is mad...
10:30<@peter1138>every has their very own repo
10:31<@peter1138>I fixed the copy & paste error ;)
10:31<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01: placing a signal has never caused any crashes here
10:31<Eddi|zuHause3>only removing signals is dangerous
10:31<Eddi|zuHause3>placing some may only cause deadlocks
10:32<Eddi|zuHause3>especially placing one way signals
10:32<Eddi|zuHause3>because the train will not unreserve its path
10:32<Eddi|zuHause3>and then gets stuck behind the one way sign
10:33<Celestar>MEH
10:33<hylje>HURR
10:33<Eddi|zuHause3>peter1138: i'm afraid that is not the answer that i wanted :p
10:33<Celestar>I'm losing track of who changes what :P
10:34<Roujin>now trying to have the Boost stuff in msys\local\include\, hope that works now..
10:34<Roujin>nope.. argh ><
10:35<Celestar>Roujin: just put it SOMEWHERe and give the correct -I flag
10:35<Celestar>in CFLAGS
10:35<Celestar>peter1138: hg is very mad, but it work just great, doesn't it?
10:36<Celestar>I man. paraview already compiles for 5 hours now :o
10:37<+glx>logs are just full of merges ;)
10:38<Celestar>who cares :P
10:39<Eddi|zuHause3>"Some sort of merge..." ;)
10:40<@peter1138>:D
10:40<@peter1138>That was when it went wrong
10:40<@peter1138>Merging a massive load of changes, and from the reimported hg repo
10:40-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@ndb.demon.nl] has joined #openttd
10:40<hylje>learning the ropes
10:41<CIA-5>OpenTTD: smatz * r13991 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: draw text effects after all other signs
10:41*planetmaker wonders what "text effects" are...
10:42<Eddi|zuHause3>moving "Income:" stuff?
10:42-!-eQualizer [~lauri@dyn196-117.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
10:42<@SmatZ>planetmaker: loading indicators, ..
10:42<@SmatZ>yes
10:42<planetmaker>ah... :) Thx
10:42<Celestar>peter1138: the size of the "blob", what is that the sum of cargo?
10:44<Celestar>http://www.fvfischer.de/roads.png <= this is getting out of hand
10:45<Celestar>I think we could use this as a screenshot (=
10:46<Celestar>Roujin: any luck?
10:48<Roujin>still trying to figure CFLAGS out oO
10:48<Celestar>./configure CFLAGS="-Wno-deprecated -I/path/to" .. if boost is installed in /path/to/boost
10:49<Roujin>i see, thanks
10:51-!-Reemo [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0D425.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:54<Eddi|zuHause3>this "hg view" thing is getting crazy...
10:55<Eddi|zuHause3>"merge from trunk" - "merge from peter" - "merge from celestar" - "merge from peter" - "merge from glx"
10:56<+glx>yes full of merges
10:56<hylje>that's distributed development for you
10:56<Eddi|zuHause3>and 4 parallel chains of development ;)
10:57<Celestar>(=
10:57<hylje>/that's/ distributed development
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10:59<Roujin>seems to work now, yay :)
10:59<Celestar>Roujin: want me to start a server? (=
10:59<Roujin>you use the latest revision i guess?
10:59<Celestar>yeah
10:59<Celestar>"hg pull" "hg update"
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11:00<Roujin>i'm a lazy one.. i use the turtoise :P
11:00<Roujin>no command line typing needed ;D
11:01<Celestar>server running (=
11:01<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: wanna join too (=
11:01<Eddi|zuHause3>no, have no time...
11:02<Celestar>pity
11:02<Roujin>pulling..
11:02<Celestar>I'm *still* waiting for this thing to compile
11:02<Roujin>compiling..
11:05<Roujin>got some warnings here..
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11:05<Celestar>Roujin: can you paste them somewhere?
11:05-!-rortom [~rortom@p57B7C814.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
11:06<Roujin>they seem to be in the Boost files tho
11:06<Roujin>+ugh
11:06<Celestar>deprecated warnings?
11:07<Roujin>nope, something being not defined.. i'll paste it in the pastebin, one sec
11:07<Celestar>k
11:07<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13992 /trunk/src/video/dedicated_v.cpp: -Fix [FS#2189]: the dedicated console removed any character that was not a printable ASCII character instead. Now it allows UTF8 formated strings too.
11:07<Roujin>http://paste.openttd.org/40922
11:08<Celestar>Roujin: dunno :(
11:10<Roujin>ah well.. boost website says it's not supporting MinGW, and it "might work or might not work" anyways
11:10<Celestar>it apparently works mostly
11:10<Celestar>does it compile?
11:11<Ammler>Rubidium: thät is näice :-)
11:11<+glx>it works here
11:11<Roujin>appearently it does.. it only repeats those 3 warnings on compiling every file that uses something from boost :P
11:12<+glx>but I configured, compiled and installed it
11:12<Roujin>glx: boost?
11:12<+glx>yes
11:12<Celestar>glx: any warnings?
11:13<Celestar>Rubidium: peter1138: why do we have that many level 0 debug messages in [net] ?
11:13<Roujin>probably should have done that too, and not just grab a precompiled build
11:13<Celestar>precompiled?
11:13<+glx>Celestar: it's debug level 1
11:13-!-nkx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
11:13<Celestar>boost is header only
11:14<Roujin>er.. maybe that was the wrong word..
11:15<Roujin>well i downloaded the "packaged release"
11:15<Celestar>I see
11:15<Celestar>well, fire it up and see what happens (=
11:15<+glx>no warnings here
11:16<Roujin>what are you using glx?
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11:16<+glx>mingw+msys
11:16<Celestar>suggestion for what cargodest commands we might need in conolse?
11:16<Celestar>console*
11:17<Northwood>any way to have graphic support in aside from vmware in debian when server
11:17<Roujin>and boost 1_35_0, or 1_36_0 beta?
11:18<Celestar>Roujin: doesn't matter
11:18<Celestar>rpm -q boost
11:18<Celestar>boost-1.34.1-42.2
11:18<Celestar>that's what I'm using
11:18<@Rubidium>Northwood: really the wrong channel to ask that
11:18<Roujin>just wondering why i get some warnings and glx doesn't..
11:18<Northwood>i also asked in xen but there ppl still sleeping
11:18<+glx>1_35
11:19<Roujin>hm, me too oO
11:19<Northwood>i thought something is build in kernel with domu
11:19<Celestar>Northwood: ERROR: cannot parse question
11:19<Roujin>ah well, compiling yapf*something now, so i can test it soon
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11:20<Roujin>well seems to run
11:20<Celestar>awesome
11:20<Roujin>version's a bit weird, or is that normal for hg?
11:21<Roujin>OpenTTD h:7297ec9
11:21<Celestar>h:7292rc9
11:21<Celestar>that's the correct one
11:21<Roujin>goodie
11:22<Roujin>is the server running?
11:22<Celestar>aye
11:22<Celestar>galadriel.td.mw.tum.de
11:22<+glx>and with the merges I can't get the same version
11:22<Celestar>glx: what merges?
11:22<Celestar>glx: you can.. just check out my repo (=
11:23<+glx>indeed :)
11:23-!-GoneWack1 [~GoneWacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
11:23<Celestar>3 people in game would rock to find possibly desyncs
11:23-!-GoneWacko [~foo@adsl-58.35.Static.ssp.fi] has quit []
11:23<Celestar>(=
11:23-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@ndb.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: Wezz6400]
11:23<@Belugas>and roll
11:23<Celestar>that too Belugas
11:23<Vikthor>Celestar: Ready to rock
11:24-!-GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko
11:24<Celestar>well, you may connect at any time (=
11:24<Vikthor>Well amost, need to recompile
11:24<Celestar>but you need to grfpack
11:24<+glx>which one?
11:24<hylje>coop?
11:24<Vikthor>If it is same you were posting earlier today I have it
11:25<Celestar>http://www.fvfischer.de/celegrfs.tar.bz2
11:25<Celestar>this one
11:25<Celestar>can make a zip if need be
11:25<@peter1138>Celestar, er, blob size is passengers I think... that needs fixing
11:25<Celestar>er .. standby I gave you the wrong server address (=
11:26*Belugas puts on some good old Iron Maiden, since he can't have time to join the other Roll And Rock
11:26<Ammler>from where to pull latest? :-)
11:26<hylje>hg.openttd.org most likely
11:26<Ammler>nah, cargo dest
11:26<Roujin>ah okay
11:27<Celestar>Ammler: http://galadriel.td.mw.tum.de:8000
11:27<Celestar>server IP is 129.187.69.65
11:28<hylje>command goes somewhat like `hg clone <url> celestar-openttd`
11:28<Celestar>yes
11:28<Celestar>exactly
11:28<+glx>clone done (it's slow on windows)
11:28<hylje>it's slow on linux too!
11:29<Roujin>Celestar: it worked :)
11:29<Celestar>cool
11:29<Celestar>Roujin: start playing (=
11:30<Roujin>is it you on the server? :P
11:30<Celestar>er yeah :P
11:30<Roujin>forgot renaming ^^
11:30<hylje>what do i need to apt-get for the boost dep?
11:31<Celestar>apt-get boost or apt-get boost-devel or apt-get boost-libs
11:31<Celestar>try boost first
11:31<blathijs>woah, there are like 100 libboost packages :-S
11:31<Celestar>er?
11:31<Celestar>what platform are you on?
11:31<blathijs>hylje: libboost-dev is probably you're best bet
11:31<blathijs>Celestar: Debian :-)
11:31<Celestar>blathijs: we only need the graph library
11:32<blathijs>hylje: libboost-graph-dev in that case
11:32<hylje>nvm i already got it
11:32<hylje>installed
11:32<Reemo>somebody knows why some of my trains has "Cost 0$" income? can't find anything about it
11:32<Celestar>blathijs: on opensuse I have 3 packages: boost, boost-devel, boost-doc
11:32<blathijs>Celestar: Debian has 61 packages :-)
11:33<@peter1138>Debian splits it up so you only need what you need...
11:33<blathijs>But those include .34, .35 versions and -dev packages
11:33<Celestar>peter1138: because boost is so enormously large in disk usage? (=
11:33<hylje>because debian policy
11:33<blathijs>around 12 different libraries in effect
11:33<hylje>they split up wine too, breaking it in process
11:35<blathijs>Celestar: It does seem all the sub-packages are multiple megs in size, so splitting does make sense IMHO
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11:41<Roujin>oo
11:41<+glx>oups
11:41<Roujin>desync
11:41<Vikthor>Whoops, there we go
11:41<Celestar>boook
11:41<Celestar>boom*
11:41<Roujin>i just cycled through some pbs signals
11:42<Roujin>the second it happened
11:42<Celestar>I built a station
11:42<Vikthor>I was just building road
11:42<+glx>I was still there
11:42<+glx>I started a train
11:42<Roujin>damn
11:42<Celestar>I _am_ still there ...
11:42<Roujin>i'll join in again
11:42<@Rubidium>I get insta-desynced
11:42<Celestar>I can see it
11:42<Ammler>Celestar: did you need to install boost?
11:42<Celestar>different settings?
11:43<Celestar>Ammler: no you just need the headers
11:43<Celestar>interesting. everyone gets insta-desynced
11:43<Roujin>i also get desynched the second i join
11:43<@Rubidium>different boost implementation
11:43<@Rubidium>I reckon
11:43<Celestar>try now. I have paused the server
11:43-!-trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd
11:44<Roujin>well i'm in now
11:44<Ammler>Celestar: is it advertised?
11:44<Celestar>Ammler: dunno 129.187.69.65
11:45-!-Northwood [~northwood@irc.mdev.info] has quit []
11:46<Roujin>desynched again shortly after unpause
11:46<Celestar>this is not good
11:46<Celestar>Rubidium: options?
11:47<@Rubidium>as default as they can be related to cargo packets
11:47<+glx>I don't see cargo route for rubidium in the map
11:47<Roujin>I didn't change anything either
11:47<@Rubidium>and debian's libboost-graph-dev 1.34.1-11
11:48<@Rubidium>and my station is funky; if you press the + the amount of cargo double, press the - and it halves
11:48<@Rubidium>and Debian's gcc 4.3.1-8
11:49<+glx>hmm it did that for me in a previous version
11:49<Celestar>hey guys, can you all check your destination settings in the patches window?
11:49<Celestar>it should be "on" for all
11:49<+glx>all to "chosen"
11:49<@Rubidium>then save that in the savegame! :)
11:50<Celestar>it is saved
11:50<Celestar>it's just no honored on game load
11:50<@Rubidium>lol
11:50<+glx>nice one
11:50<@Rubidium>okay, it's set to chosen now
11:50-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd
11:50<Celestar>can you guys do an "rn le 0 1" and tell me if you see the route?
11:51<@Rubidium>no outgoing routes blablabla
11:51<Celestar>and can you all then set it to "chosen" again for all types and try again
11:51<Ammler>maybe your GRFs?
11:51<Celestar>Rubidium: I thought so
11:51<Celestar>Rubidium: I have the route here
11:51<+glx>no outgoing routes
11:51<Celestar>that's why we're desyncing no doubt
11:51<Roujin>same for me
11:51<Vikthor>same here
11:51<Celestar>not good at all
11:51<Celestar>writing a fix
11:52<Celestar>I'll be back in a few
11:52<Ammler>no routing etablished...
11:52<Roujin>wait a second
11:52<Roujin>rn le 0 1 is passengers
11:53<+glx>rn le 1 0 is my coal route
11:53<hylje>Celestar: revision? (mine: 7297ec9)
11:53<Ammler>Celestar: newcargo is early beta grf...
11:53<+glx>hylje: it's right
11:53-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd754.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
11:53<hylje>glx: great thanks
11:54<Celestar>hylje: good one
11:54<Celestar>Rubidium: have you manually set the stuff?
11:55<hylje>that didn't last long
11:55<+glx>hylje: set cargo dest settings before join
11:55<Ammler>hylje: if you don't ./configure the revision, you can't join with wrong rev anymore...
11:55<Celestar>hylje: set cargo dest settings to "chosen" for all types before you join
11:55-!-nekx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd
11:55<@Rubidium>Celestar: manually in what sense?
11:56<Roujin>in the main menu
11:56<Celestar>Rubidium: in the main menu
11:56<hylje>patch conf
11:57<@Rubidium>I did: clone, install boost, compile, run, build station, build station, build rail, build depot, build train, build wagons, build train, remove wagon, set orders, desynced, (desync rejoin)+, set 4 patch settings to chosen in main menu, rejoined, desynced
11:57<+glx>Ammler: set cargo dest settings to "chosen" for all types before you join
11:57<@Rubidium>oh, forgot about getting annoyed of deprecated warnings in boost
12:03-!-nkx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:03<Progman>Celestar: what do you thing about http://nopaste.php-quake.net/40883 ?
12:04<Celestar>Progman: looking
12:04<Celestar>Progman: ask peter1138 he messed around with that(=
12:04<Progman>okay
12:05<Progman>peter1138: what do /you/ thing about http://nopaste.php-quake.net/40883 ? ;)
12:14-!-Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-96.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit []
12:14<@peter1138>Hah, millions of GRFs :o
12:14<@peter1138>Progman, could be done cleaner...
12:15<Progman>but I'm neither a openttd-code-guru nor a c++-guru :(
12:15-!-curson [~curzon@60.32.176.184] has quit [Quit: If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.]
12:16<guru3>*curiousity*
12:16<guru3>what is it Progman?
12:16<Progman>not you ;)
12:17<guru3>doesn't mean you can't say what it is ><
12:18<Roujin>ok, seems my build has trouble also in single player, so it's no wonder it desynched
12:19<Celestar>Roujin: it has?
12:19<Celestar>peter1138: millions of grfs?
12:20<@peter1138>Yeah, on the server... heh
12:20<Celestar>yeah .. full-scale test
12:21<Celestar>after desync galore, it seems reasonably stable now (=
12:21<Roujin>yes, vehicles not loading any cargo..
12:21<Celestar>Roujin: where?
12:22<Celestar>peter1138: I posted a tbz2 up there with all the grfs
12:22<@peter1138>tbz2... :o
12:22<Progman>peter1138: http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7403/destandhoprr3.png thats how it looks
12:23<@peter1138>Yeah, I meant code-wise. I shall tidy it up, don't worry.
12:25<Roujin>Celestar: hmm i was using standard vehicles, does that matter?
12:25<Roujin>now I started a new game with the newgrfs used on your server and it works now
12:29<Celestar>Roujin: nice
12:29<Celestar>peter1138: we MUST honor the settings .. that's (apparently) why we desynced in the first place
12:30<@peter1138>yes, i'm working on that right now
12:30<Celestar>you're awesome
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12:37-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:39<@peter1138>Nearly there.
12:39-!-Forked [kjs@termstua.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:44<@Belugas>path finding on Mars : http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20080102a.html
12:45-!-Forked [~kjetil@savner.vdsl2.no] has joined #openttd
12:47<@peter1138>Celestar: pull
12:47<Celestar>peter1138: which URL this time?
12:48*Prof_Frink grabs his shotgun
12:48<Prof_Frink>Pull!
12:49<@peter1138>http://84.246.155.101:8000
12:49<Celestar>thanks
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12:59<Celestar>now I'm desyncing like BAD
12:59<Celestar>MAD
13:01-!-mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:01<Celestar>Rubidium: we have to isolate the problem somehow
13:04<@peter1138>It was supposed to be MP safe :o
13:06<Celestar>peter1138: if the settings are not honoured, it's a bit difficult (=
13:06<Ammler>Celestar: It might be because of autoreplace...
13:07<Celestar>did anyone set up autoreplace?
13:07<Ammler>I did, just switched off...
13:07<Celestar>Ammler: k
13:07-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-108-163.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:07<Celestar>but I'd like to have the settings loaded anyway
13:08<@peter1138>So make a new binary ;)
13:08<Celestar>server running with a new binary
13:08<hylje>building
13:08<Celestar>Rubidium: not yet sure what goes wrong with those trains of yours
13:08<Ammler>pull from?
13:08<Ammler>still from you Celestar?
13:09<hylje>how does one tag pulling locations to a human-friendly name
13:10<Celestar>Ammler: yes
13:10<@peter1138>Your GRF pack is missing a GRF...
13:11-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-108-163.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
13:12<Celestar>it is?
13:12<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13993 /trunk/src/table/palettes.h: -Codechange: Associate TextColour values with comments of related values in _string_colormap table
13:12<@peter1138>bridges
13:12<@peter1138>got it anyway, heh
13:12<Celestar>Rubidium: the unload system is not even triggerd :o
13:12<Celestar>triggered*
13:15<@peter1138>Yeah, the patch settings are honoured now.
13:17<Celestar>yep
13:18<Celestar>Roujin: we have a new version
13:18<Celestar>update (=
13:18<Roujin>i have..
13:18<Roujin>h:a9505f4 right?
13:19<Celestar>yes
13:19<Roujin>maybe somethings really wrong with my Boost
13:19<Celestar>possibly
13:20<Celestar>got no other explanation
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13:24<Ammler>Celestar: Roujin, try again...
13:24<Ammler>I had the trucks repalce on...
13:25<Roujin>nope
13:25<Roujin>desyncs
13:25<@Rubidium>Roujin: don't use MSVC builds if you want to stay in
13:25<Roujin>i built with mingw/gcc
13:25<Celestar>what's wrong with the MSVC build?
13:25<Ammler>hmm, maybe it needs a server restart?
13:26<@Rubidium>Celestar: open FS and search for autoreplace bugs, then looks at the one about corrupt savegames
13:26<Celestar>Rubidium: do I want to read it? (=
13:26<@Rubidium>no
13:27<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r13994 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp gfx_func.h graph_gui.cpp): -Codechange: replace a few rogue magic numbers with Colours enum values
13:27<@Belugas>"And the band plays on"
13:28<Ammler>is that boost glitch known? http://paste.openttd.org/40978
13:28<Celestar>Ammler: I don't have that
13:28<hylje>nor do i
13:29<Celestar>hence we should use one stable, constant boost release
13:30<Ammler>or c&p the libs, you need?
13:30<Celestar>svn:externals (=
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13:31<Roujin>Ammler: I don't have those, but i had other warnings..
13:32<@peter1138>haha
13:32<Ammler>Celestar: which suse version do you use?
13:32<Celestar>Ammler: 11
13:32<Purno>what was the shortest TT rail vehicles can be? 5/8 or 3/8?
13:32<Celestar>[All] Celestar: autoreplace coming up in 4 sec
13:32<Celestar>dbg: [net] 'peter1138' reported an error and is closing its connection (desync error)
13:32<Ammler>10.3. ehre
13:32-!-bowman [johanf@81-226-229-179-no59.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:32<Celestar>Ammler: I've 10.3 on most other boxes. only my lappie is 11 already
13:33<Ammler>I have different versions per pc, 10.2-11
13:33<Celestar>11 is soo cool with KDE4.1
13:33<Ammler>my 11 still is using 3
13:33-!-bowman [johanf@81-226-229-179-no59.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
13:34<frosch123>Purno: shorten by 5/8 to 3/8
13:34<Purno>thanks
13:35<hylje>ammler ping
13:35<Ammler>pong
13:40<Celestar>Ammler: I get the same boost error on 10.3
13:40<Celestar>er
13:40<Celestar>warning
13:41<Ammler>I didn't install boost, it was there by default
13:41<Celestar>yeah here too
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13:44<Celestar>server moved to galadriel.td.mw.tum.de
13:44<Celestar>I'm off
13:44<Celestar>bye :D
13:44<@peter1138>bai
13:45<+glx>Celestar: we have a 3rdparty repo for that ;)
13:45-!-Roujin [~Roujin@p54973B51.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:45*bleepy stretches
13:45<@peter1138>For what?
13:45<+glx>"external" libs
13:45<+glx>like squirrel
13:46<Ammler>I should add thos american signals to our pack
13:46<Ammler>and celestar should update av8
13:46<Ammler>then the coop pack is compatible :-)
13:57-!-Vemarkis [Vemarkis@a88-115-112-34.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
13:58<Vemarkis>There seems to be a bug with new cargoes. Cargos like Plastic and Fuel oil do not have their price set in Pikka's Industry set in 0.6.2. Price graph doesn't show the prices either
13:58<Vemarkis>Trains show no profit markers when they unload those cargoes either.
13:58<@peter1138>With the GRF in a new game or added later?
13:59<Vemarkis>I dunno how Brianetta added it to the scenario..
13:59-!-trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd
13:59<Vemarkis>but, plastic and fuel oil make no profit on the server no matter how much you transport and what the distance
13:59<Vemarkis>or gravel or any of the other "new" cargos
13:59<@peter1138>Yeah
13:59<@Rubidium>that'd be great in the real world ;)
13:59<Vemarkis>and they do not show up on the price graph.
14:00<@peter1138>Solution: play a different game.
14:00<@peter1138>It happens if a GRF is added to a game/scenario after it's generated.
14:00<@peter1138>There's a workaround in the nightlies but I guess it didn't make it to 0.6.2
14:01<Ammler>well, you could try my ugly patch :-)
14:02<Ammler>it might be easier to apply then the one from peter...
14:08*Belugas would not touch that patch with a 10 foot poll
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14:14<ln>wow, did you know that the CPU chips of Terminator robots from the future fit into the PCI slot of a VIA Epia?
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14:16<Prof_Frink>Sarah Connor?
14:16<[1]Roujin>will the cargo dest patch always rely on boost?
14:17<ln>Sarah Connor.
14:18<@Belugas>Sinead O'Connor?
14:21<[1]Roujin>if so maybe it really would be good to have it on the repo as 3rdparty..
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14:27<Tekky>Phew, I have finally created my first OpenTTD patch. It's just a minor (albeit significant) modification of the OpenTTD station rating system, but it's a start. :-) In case anyone is interested, here is the link: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=38786
14:28<Tekky>I hope this will not be my last patch :)
14:28<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13995 /trunk/src/network/core/host.cpp: -Fix (r13988): some warnings of the compile farm.
14:28<@Rubidium>it just totally destroys the gameplay
14:29<@Rubidium>as there will be absolutely no incentive to upgrade your train network anymore
14:29<@Rubidium>if it worked in 1920, it'll still work exactly the same in 2090
14:29<Tekky>Well, the reliability of a Ginzu will be much lower in 2090 than in 1950 :)
14:30<@Rubidium>not with vehicles never expire
14:31<Tekky>I think the best solution would be to take the average travel speed into account using cargo packets.
14:31<Ammler>Belugas: me too :-)
14:31<Tekky>and base the station rating on that.
14:33<Tekky>But also the time while the train is waiting in the station with a "full load" order should be counted as travel time, IMHO.
14:34<Tekky>I think that would be the best solution, but not easy to program.
14:35<Tekky>and it would also take additional memory, because cargo packets couldn't be merged so easily if the times they were loaded onto the train are different.
14:37<ln>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1041240/Sea-unearths-secret-Nazi-bunkers-lay-hidden-50-years.html
14:37<@peter1138>Hmm, is there any simple-to-use 3d modelling/planning program... for Linux :o
14:37<Celestar>peter1138: modelling/planning of what kind
14:38<@peter1138>I'm planning on building some simple furniture.
14:38<Yexo> <[1]Roujin> if so maybe it really would be good to have it on the repo as 3rdparty.. <- It would be even better if compilation on cygwin was fixed too
14:38<Celestar>peter1138: blender
14:38<@peter1138>Blender is not simple :o
14:39<Celestar>possibly
14:39<@peter1138>I've tried to use it previously and got nowhere...
14:39<hylje>blender is pretty simple but needs "getting"
14:39<hylje>there's not a large plethora of must-use functions
14:40<Vemarkis>I dunno if Milkshape works on nux, but its simple ;P
14:43<Yexo>Rubidium: openttd give 130 ratings points for station rating if a vehicle loaded/unloaded in the 4 days, while according to http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Custom_station_rating_calculation_145_ ttdpatch gives 130 points if a vehicle (un)loaded in the past 2,5*4=10 days. Is there a reason for this difference?
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14:51<Eddi|zuHause3>err... i'm missing two grfs from celestars pack...
14:52<ln>'
14:52<Eddi|zuHause3>535A0501 and 56430001
14:52<[1]Roujin>well then load his pack
14:52<@Rubidium>Yexo: because someone failed to properly name some variables
14:52<Eddi|zuHause3>well i did load his pack...
14:53<Ammler>http://openttdcoop.org/newgrfs/ottdc_grfpack/4_infrastructure/b_newbridges/newbridgesW.GRF
14:53<Eddi|zuHause3>and it does find grfs that i know for sure i have never ever downloaded before
14:54<Ammler>http://openttdcoop.org/newgrfs/ottdc_grfpack/6_town_buildings/ttrs3/ttrs3w.GRF
14:54<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r13996 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13845): Oilrigs from pre r13838 save games can have unknown water class.
14:54<@Rubidium>Yexo: as TTDP and OTTD behave exactly the same w.r.t. to that rating
14:56<Celestar>peter1138: you desynced several times?
14:57<Eddi|zuHause3>bug: the game does not recognise the new files in the multiplayer window, even after i refreshed the list in the newgrf window
14:57<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, it does still say conflict on ttrs3w
14:59<Yexo>Rubidium: aha, just the openttd wiki is wrong in this case, as time_since_load is indeed increased every 2,5 days
14:59<Eddi|zuHause3>wow that is an odyssee...
14:59<Eddi|zuHause3>no company free?
14:59<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: you can use mine,
15:00<Yexo>that also means that a town only gives a penalty to the town rating if it isn't visited for 80 days instead of 20
15:00<Ammler>but is has just a little coal line
15:00<Yexo>Tekky: you around?
15:00<Eddi|zuHause3>i just entered roujins company
15:00<Eddi|zuHause3>it had negative profit
15:00<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: what server are you on?
15:00<Eddi|zuHause3>yours i hope ;)
15:02<@peter1138>Celestar, apparently.
15:02<Celestar>peter1138: weird
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15:03<Celestar>we've got to test this one day with the same boost revision
15:03<Celestar>and a disabled autoreplace
15:03<@peter1138>I think we need to test it without any GRFs as well, just in case.
15:03<Celestar>yes
15:04<@peter1138>Oh, and not 8 companies ;)
15:04<Celestar>why? :P
15:04<Celestar>well it makes debugging kinda hard
15:04<@peter1138>Exactly.
15:05<Ammler>company station prefix
15:05<Celestar>Rubidium: could you try to reproduce the problem you were having
15:05<Progman>Celestar, peter1138: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8527/regroupts6.png dont know if it is a problem or if it is even possible but can cargo packages be merged internaly?
15:05<@peter1138>Progman: different source.
15:05<Progman>and different timestamp, so it isn't possible?
15:06<Yexo>but maybe they could still be merged in the gui?
15:06<Celestar>Progman: different timestamps are merged
15:06<Progman>for my patch it should be merged of course ;)
15:06<Celestar>uh not yet
15:07<Celestar>peter1138: why didn't we merge the packets yet and average the time? ;)
15:07<@peter1138>Rounding.
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15:07<Celestar>peter1138: oh. right.
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15:07<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13997 /trunk/src/network/core/host.cpp: -Fix (r13988): in some cases no broadcast addresses would be found.
15:11<Progman>btw. are you solving a BINPACKING problem by selecting the correct cargo packages for the same direction or do you slip cargo packages? ;)
15:11<Progman>s/slip/split/
15:12<@Belugas>cargo dressed a-la-tarzan
15:13<Tekky>Yexo: Yes. I am here now.
15:13<Yexo>Tekky: <Yexo> that also means that a town only gives a penalty to the town rating if it isn't visited for 80 days instead of 20
15:14<Yexo>sorry, not 80, but 50 I think
15:14<Tekky>Yexo: ah, so my patch increased it even further, to a whole year :)
15:14<Yexo>yep
15:14<Yexo>to 90*2,5 to be exact
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15:31<Tekky>Yexo: Ah, yes, thanks, for pointing it out. It is called every 185 ticks, which corresponds to 2.5 days.
15:32<Yexo>exactly, I updated the wiki to reflect that
15:32<Tekky>Yexo: Which wiki page did you update?
15:32<Yexo>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_mechanics
15:32<Yexo>are there more that need updating?
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15:35<Tekky>Yexo: Ah, yes, that is the page I mentioned in the forum. I don't know of any further pages that need updating.
15:36<Tekky>Yexo: Now that I see these new numbers, they seem much more reasonable. :-)
15:37<Yexo>Tekky: if you still want to write a patch, first write one to change the name of the "days_since_pickup" var, as it doesn't count in days
15:38<@Rubidium>Yexo: how would you name it then?
15:38<Tekky>Yexo: It is called st->time_since_load with me.
15:39<Yexo>Tekky: that's another one
15:39<@peter1138>Progman: Packets can be split. It's cheaper.
15:39<Tekky>Yexo: Ah, in the GoodsEntry struct, yes....
15:39<Yexo>Rubidium: something like time_since_pickup, with a descriptive comment
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15:40<Celestar>peter1138: we can try a 2-player game without grfs tomorrow, just for a short time?
15:41<@Rubidium>Celestar: think a 2 company or even 1 company game with more players might be better w.r.t. desync testing
15:41<@Rubidium>as you then get more different playing styles that might cause the desync
15:42<Celestar>Rubidium: sure
15:42<Celestar>I dunno how long did you play after I left?
15:42<@Rubidium>I left before you moved the server
15:42<@peter1138>Celestar, are path costs taken into account yet?
15:42<Celestar>peter1138: in what way?
15:43<Celestar>peter1138: the pathfinder takes them into account, but only the distance
15:43<@peter1138>I've got a slow multistop/multitransfer train route being taken in preference to a direct aircraft route.
15:44<@peter1138>oh, almost direct
15:44<@Rubidium>that's better than my coal train that transported coal to a coal mine
15:44<@peter1138>uhhh
15:45<Celestar>peter1138: currently, we're writing the penalty factors to edge_weight2, which is not taken into account. We could just add them to edge_weight in AddRoute. You could try that and see what happens
15:45<Forked>¯\(º_o)/¯
15:47<Progman>Celestar: is the bug known that sometimes cargo isn't drop at the next hop?
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15:51<Celestar>Progman: apparently yes, but I dunno where it is and how to reproduce
15:51<Celestar>peter1138: did that help?
15:52<Celestar>peter1138: with -d routing=6 you can see the distances (per pathfinding)
15:54<Celestar>so you can see whether the change helps
15:54<Progman>autoreplace breaks the network graph?
15:54<Celestar>with routing=7 you see the distance of each hop
15:54<Celestar>Progman: only with cargo-carrying dualheads afaik
15:55<Progman>hmm, it happends for aircrafts
15:56<Celestar>Progman: honestly I've not looked much into autoreplace and cargodests
15:56<Celestar>as autoreplace has some issues
15:56<Celestar>hitting the hay! good night :D
15:57<Celestar>Progman: it's still on the todo list
15:58<Celestar>at least on mine
15:58<Celestar>Progman: did the cargo type change with the autoreplace?
15:58<Celestar>Progman: if everything else fails, save game, and reload. This should fix it
15:58<Celestar>seeing that the routing network is not in saves
15:58<Celestar>saved*
16:00<Celestar>peter1138: erm and I meant we could multiply them into edge_weight, not add them :P
16:02<Celestar>really off now
16:06<@peter1138>Sorry, too busy playing to test it...
16:12<@peter1138>Grrr
16:12<@peter1138>Silly connection :o
16:12<+glx>mine is very stable
16:16<@peter1138>Packet loss at some network in between.
16:19<Eddi|zuHause3>mine is impressively stable ;)
16:19<Eddi|zuHause3>paxdest would heavily benefit from shared stations
16:19<Eddi|zuHause3>interconnection points between networks
16:25<@peter1138>Well, less than 1% packet loss, which is pretty normal...
16:25<@peter1138>Yes, it would.
16:25<Vikthor>Eddi|zuHause3: sure thing
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16:27<@Belugas>yeah.. and no local authority too
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16:32<@peter1138>Belugas, noooo!
16:33<@Belugas>:)
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16:57<+glx>desync \o/
16:57<Eddi|zuHause3>i saw
16:57<+glx>it's the first one
16:58<Eddi|zuHause3>i did nothing meaningful that could have caused it
16:58<+glx>me neither
16:58<+glx>unless autorenew triggered
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17:12<@peter1138>I had autoreplace on for aircraft.
17:13<+glx>I used autoreplace for busses
17:13<+glx>without problems
17:13*Belugas goes sleeping beauty
17:13<@Belugas>ciao
17:17<Ammler>glx, not the one who uses autoreplace desyncs
17:17<Ammler>the those who join after, do
17:17<+glx>but there were no desyncs when I used it
17:17<Ammler>did someone join at that time?
17:19*Celestar can't sleep
17:20<Celestar>so what's everyone up to?
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17:21<@peter1138>Hey, found an issue Celestar.
17:21<Celestar>peter1138: go ahead
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17:21<@peter1138>Packets won't unload at their source.
17:21<Celestar>yeah
17:21<@peter1138>Problem.
17:22<@peter1138>I changed a route and the packets which were enroute now need to go back to their source to transfer to another route
17:22<@peter1138>But they won't.
17:22<Celestar>I see
17:22<Celestar>so let's not do that
17:22<Celestar>?
17:22<@peter1138>What, not change routes?
17:23<Celestar>not not unload
17:23<@peter1138>Ahh
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>Celestar: i need removal of town roads :(
17:25<Celestar>test
17:25<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: hm?
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>on the server
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>the setting for removal of town roads is not enabled
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>so you can't remove circular roads
17:26<Wolf01>'night
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17:26<Celestar>how do I set it via console
17:27<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i don't know
17:28<@peter1138>patch somethingsomethingsomething :p
17:28<Ammler>extra_dynamite
17:29<Prof_Frink>No openttd and no beer make Prof_Frink something something.
17:29<Ammler>not that obvious...
17:34<ln>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo0ItAXn-Ew
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17:49<ln>ok
17:50<Celestar>I'm desyncing on my own server for some reason :P
17:51<Celestar>instantaneously
17:51<@peter1138>Yeah
17:52<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13998 /trunk/projects/ (8 files): -Fix [FS#2004]: MSVC can't handle changed files in the prebuild event, so make the version determination a separate subproject (michi_cc).
17:52<@peter1138>As did my spectator client...
17:53<Celestar>I wonder what exactly is going wrong
17:54<@peter1138>Hmm
17:54<@peter1138>That was bad.
17:54<@peter1138>Now I can't play :p
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17:55<Celestar>what was bad
17:55<@peter1138>Enabled some debugging...
17:55<@peter1138>Took so long printing it I got disconnected.
17:55<@peter1138>So, does route insertion order matter?
17:56<Celestar>that's a good question
17:56<Celestar>we could restart the server and see what happens
17:58<@peter1138>It'll probably be fine, but doesn't really help solve anything :)
17:58<@peter1138>You want a route network dump on the server and a just-joined client...
18:00<@Rubidium>*or* for local reproduction: copy the route table, clear, rebuild, compare each tick (or few ticks)
18:00<@Rubidium>(as happens in YAPF's desyc debug)
18:00<Celestar>hm, afaik the edge list should be sorted
18:01<@peter1138>It may just be a NewGRF bug ;)
18:01<Celestar>:P
18:02<Celestar>that's why maybe we should start a newgrf-less server
18:02<@peter1138>Right, sleepy time
18:02<@peter1138>Yup
18:02<Celestar>I'll do that tomorrow or something
18:02<Celestar>hm ..
18:02<Celestar>it's weak ordering
18:03<Celestar>I'm off a bit
18:04<Celestar>but Rubidium I'm open for suggestions on how to implement suchs a desync debugger 8)
18:05<@Rubidium>as I said: clone routing tables, rebuild routing table, compare rebuild and cloned -> mismatch: not MP safe
18:05-!-stillunk1own [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:06<@Rubidium>similarly to openttd.cpp:1006+
18:07<Celestar>I'll give this a thought
18:07<Eddi|zuHause3>i want to report a bug: i am not making a shitload of money
18:07<Celestar>but I'll be away from Friday for 12 days or something
18:07<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, it's MUCH harder (=
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18:08<Eddi|zuHause3>it's mainly due to the overload of passengers, they spend too much time in transfer
18:08<Eddi|zuHause3>it'd be a lot better with fewer passengers
18:08<+glx>Eddi|zuHause3: remove your 2 never used stations ;)
18:08<Eddi|zuHause3>i have no idea where they are
18:08<Eddi|zuHause3>they were from roujin i believe
18:09<+glx>Wrunway
18:10<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, found it
18:10<Eddi|zuHause3>which idiot built that kind of route...
18:10<Prof_Frink>glx: Is there an airport at Wrunway?
18:11<+glx>no
18:11<Prof_Frink>Shame
18:11<Prof_Frink>Wrunway runway
18:11<+glx>only an unused train station
18:11<Eddi|zuHause3>Alons-y Alonso?
18:12<Eddi|zuHause3>is that written with double l?
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18:12<+glx>double l
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18:17<Eddi|zuHause3>a railbus (VT-95) is totally useless with that kind of passenger amounts
18:18<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm gonna go now
18:18<Celestar>me too
18:19<+glx>why can't I autoreplace my airships ?
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18:23<Eddi|zuHause3>possibly because they are helicopters?
18:25<+glx>but I see the planes in the list
18:25<+glx>(though I see elctric trains only in non electric view)
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18:32<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13999 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix [FS#2190]: crash when the AI tries to find the depot of an airport that doesn't have a depot.
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19:34<@SmatZ>hehe
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19:47<nicfer>about the forests as fields, is that possible with newgrf?
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19:57<@Belugas>nicfer, what do you mean?
19:57<nicfer>oh, bad english here
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19:58<nicfer>I mean if there is a property that allows you to make primary industries act like farms
19:58<nicfer>aka creating fields nearby
19:58<@Belugas>what is the behaviour that you want to duplicate in farms?
19:59<@Belugas>the fact that they plant fields?
19:59<@Belugas>when they are producing?
19:59<nicfer>exactly
19:59<@Belugas>so, instead of fields, yo would see trees instead?
20:00<nicfer>yup
20:00<@Belugas>mmh
20:00<@Belugas>no, actually, it is not possible
20:00<@Belugas>because it's only fields that are planted
20:01<@Belugas>and iirc, it's the same kind of graphics wether you are in temperate or in subarctic
20:01<@Belugas>but i wonder what it would require to do so...
20:01<@Belugas>let me check
20:01<nicfer>I saw a topic in the suggestion forums about it and I was thinking about making it more expansible
20:02<@Belugas>url?
20:05<@SmatZ>"The wurst I ever seen."
20:10<@Belugas>mmh... it's not totally impossible
20:10<@Belugas>but not with current newgrf specs tough
20:10<@Belugas>SmatZ ?
20:12*Belugas goes back to its game in subarctic
20:13<@SmatZ>Belugas: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=38788
20:13<@SmatZ>beer and wurst :-)
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20:18<CIA-5>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14000 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Missing enum entries kind of defeat the point of the enum
20:18<@peter1138>Wow, what a rubbish commit for r14000 :p
20:20<@peter1138>(That was the cause of the black map in the cargo dest tree)
20:20<@SmatZ>I was considering adding a missing space for r14000...
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20:43<@Belugas>?
20:43<@Belugas>already 14000?
20:43<@Belugas>he ben...
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20:45<@Belugas>there are an awfull lot of hardcode in colour management
20:45<@Belugas>it's...
20:45<@Belugas>crazy
20:52<@Belugas>ho... thanks SmatZ for the url :)
21:01<@SmatZ>:-)
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21:08<@Belugas>that forest-farm-field request is intriguing
21:09<@Belugas>just do not know from where to handle it
21:12<@Belugas>SmatZ, to your knowledge, which is the fastest between "return (x == true) ? 1 : 25;" from "return this[x];" as an example
21:12<@Belugas>given that this is an array[2] containing1 and 25
21:14<@Belugas>SmatZ or.. any one else, of course
21:17<@SmatZ>first
21:17<@SmatZ>maybe if this (bad name for C++ ;)
21:17<@SmatZ>was a static const array, compiler could optimise that
21:20<@Belugas>ok
21:21<@Belugas>i was looking at code for _use_dos_palette
21:21<@Belugas>as you know, i'm hooked on colours recently :)
21:21<@SmatZ>:-0
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21:26<@Belugas>mmh...
21:26<@Belugas>but tonight, nothing good to do
21:26<@Belugas>so...
21:26<@Belugas>good night all
21:27<@SmatZ>nn Belugas
21:48-!-dragonhorseboy [4a396fef@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd
21:48<dragonhorseboy>hey
21:53<@SmatZ>hello
21:57<dragonhorseboy>how're you?
21:58<@SmatZ>sleepy :)
21:58<@SmatZ>night
22:00<dragonhorseboy>:p
22:00<dragonhorseboy>me going to bed in a moment too
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22:20<AAK>I unknowingly downloaded the latest directx sdk, and I cannot build openttd because I get 10 unresolved external symbol errors. Can I easily fix this, or do I have to downgrade?
22:23<+glx>you need direct music files (they are not in recent SDK)
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22:25<+glx>Note:You should not use a version newer then August 2007 as DirectMusic is no longer support as of the November 2007 release. <-- it's said on the wiki
22:25<AAK>i know. so the only option is to get an older sdk? or can i download the direct music files somewhere?
22:26<+glx>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions#Microsoft.C2.AE_DirectX_SDK_-_August_2007
22:27<AAK>thank you
22:28<+glx>btw I have only april 2007 SDK and it works with 2008 express
22:29<AAK>alright
22:32<+glx>and I go to sleep now
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 05 00:00:52 2008