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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-08-17

---Logopened Sun Aug 17 00:00:35 2008
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03:42<FR^2>hiho
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04:19<ln>GOOD MORNING
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04:30<Ammler>good morning
04:31<Ammler>nightly server down?
04:32<@Bjarni>looks like it
04:32<@Bjarni>the wiki is down too
04:32<@Bjarni>and I can't fix it from here
04:38<FR^2>:( I want the nightly and I want it _now_!!!111 (just kidding...)
04:40<Ammler>FR^2: s/I/We/;s/just/not/
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04:40<@Bjarni>DIY
04:41-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad51a5d.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
04:41<@Bjarni>the next person to complain about the nightly builds will feel the consequences
04:42*FR^2 is suddenly very quiet.
04:43<@Bjarni>I didn't tell you not to talk :/
04:43<Ammler>hmm :-)
04:43<@Bjarni>feel free to talk as long as you pay your $0.01/line fee
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04:44<Ammler>he, is der a country called "Niegerlande" (german)?
04:44<Ammler>http://www.sf.tv/sfsport/artikel.php?catid=sportolympischespielepekingartikel&docid=20080105-01
04:46<@Bjarni>isn't that Niger?
04:46<@Bjarni>(which is in Africa)
04:47<FR^2>Bjarni: Expensive.
04:48<@Bjarni>according to wikipedia Niger in in German is called... Niger
04:48<@Bjarni>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger <-- I still think it's this one
04:49<Gekz>Lol
04:49<Alberth>looks like 'niederlande' to me, ie The Netherlands or Holland
04:50<Gekz>Ammler: Nigeria
04:50<Gekz>perhaps.
04:50<Gekz>Nigeria != Niger
04:51<@Bjarni>http://olympics.enetpulse.com/tv2.index.php?lang_id=1&clientFK=7&p=medals <-- same list in English
04:51<@Bjarni>it says The Netherlands o_O
04:52<Gekz>Well thats a fail
04:52<Gekz>Ammler: you spelt it wrong
04:52<Gekz>Niederlande.
04:52<Gekz>as Alberth said
04:52<@peter1138>Amazing how the Chinese have so many golds...
04:53<Gekz>peter1138: they're the host nation meaning more of their poor, cheating athletes can participate
04:53<Gekz>because they cant ship them all to other olympics
04:53<@Bjarni>first of all they have more than a billion people to pick from
04:54<@Bjarni>and the state really wants to win
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04:54<Gekz>It's just another Nazi Olympics
04:59<@Bjarni>I'm not sure any Olympic were completely honest and fair after they introduced possible financial gains in them
05:00<Gekz>I'd have to say the Sydney and Athens Olympics were pretty fair
05:00<Gekz>some of those guys got tested for drugs 3 times a day
05:02<@Bjarni>I don't care for sports events
05:02<@Bjarni>they are never fair
05:02<Gekz>how so
05:02<@Bjarni>the thing I care most for about the Olympics is that it shouldn't come here
05:03<@Bjarni><Gekz> how so <-- well it's always up to some judge to figure out who won
05:04<@Bjarni>and whatever they rule somebody can always find a mistake in the ruling
05:04<Gekz>not in all events
05:06<@Bjarni>like they said on the news (btw why is the general news about the Olympics and not stuff like "the railroad broke and stranded a whole lot of people during rushhour?) that some wrestler was nearly getting gold and then he got some ruling that he was too idle
05:06<@Bjarni>so he lost based on this and the guy who won on this ended up getting gold
05:07<FauxFaux>For most sports they're competing on a set of completely arbitary rules.
05:07<FauxFaux>Ignoring cycling (go England!) and sailing (go England!) and running (aw crap) etc. here.
05:07<Gekz>Bjarni: that's not what I was talking about
05:07<Gekz>I'm talking simple races and the like
05:08<Ammler>sadly Netherlands got us again :-)
05:08-!-Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493D1A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
05:08<@Bjarni>I can tell about a race that wasn't fair
05:09<Tekky>hi, is http://wiki.openttd.org/ also down with everyone else or only with me?
05:09<Ammler>everyone...
05:10<ln>Ammler: can you speak on everyone's behalf?
05:10<Ammler>ln: yes, I did :P
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05:10<Ammler>ln: I am happy, if you could prove the opposite :-)
05:11<@Bjarni>there is a race every year for sailing ships and the route is around an island. One year not so long ago there was a storm that moved them southwards to begin with (the right direction). When the first 4 ships made the turn to go west, the wind changed and blew west. Everybody else now had to battle a storm from the side. When the first 4 had to turn north, the wind changed again and blew them north. The rest (around 100 ships) we
05:11<@Bjarni>re still trapped trying to get south and since it was now directly against the storm they had to give up
05:11*Vikthor greets channel after his return from Germany
05:12<FR^2>Vikthor: hiho
05:12<FR^2>Bjarni: Hehe
05:12<@Bjarni>the speed record was improved a whole lot and it's estimated that it will never be beaten again
05:12<@Bjarni>in this case the part that made it unfair was the wind
05:13<Ammler>Bjarni: that wasn't "unfair"
05:14<Ammler>the weather is something elementary for such competitions.
05:14<@Bjarni>I know
05:14<Ammler>(for most outside things...
05:14<FauxFaux>Having world records for sailing is a little silly.
05:15<Tekky>Does anyone know why the OpenTTD wiki is down and how long it will be down? Is it now moving server due to the successful fundraiser?
05:15<@Bjarni><Ammler> Bjarni: that wasn't "unfair" <-- I think so even if it wasn't a human who made it unfair
05:16<Ammler>don't think, it is down, because of that, "they" should be able to handle that without downtime...
05:16<Alberth>Tekky: The server is down because it is not up. It will be up when you can reach it again.
05:16<@Bjarni>yeah
05:17<Alberth>Can somebody plz change the subject of the channel? :P
05:17-!-Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No unauthorised bots | We Love the developers
05:17<@Bjarni>done
05:17<Tekky>I like the subject of this channel. :-) Don't you love YAPP, too?
05:18<@Bjarni>Alberth: that request was pointless as you didn't tell what you wanted the topic to say instead :p
05:19<Ammler>Bjarni: who is "We"?
05:19-!-Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No unauthorised bots | We Love YAPP
05:19<@Bjarni>Ammler: my people
05:19<@Bjarni>(that would be you)
05:19<Ammler>:-)
05:20<Alberth>Bjarni: I trust you to mention all the most important items there :P
05:20<@Bjarni>lol
05:21<FauxFaux>How understandable is the YAPP code? I'm tempted to go look at one of those presignals things, but I fear for my sanity.
05:22<@Bjarni>I will give the disclaimer that nobody in here will ensure your sanity
05:22<@Bjarni>but feel free to check out the source and take a look
05:22<FauxFaux>It has .cpp extensions, that has to be a good sign.
05:22<@Bjarni>lol
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05:23<@Bjarni>we have a .cpp file containing inline ASM :P
05:23<FauxFaux>D:
05:23<@Bjarni>it's fairly simple though
05:23<@Bjarni>and you don't need to mess with it
05:23<Kloopy_>lol
05:24<@Bjarni>os_timer.cpp
05:24<FauxFaux>I'll complain about that in a minute, brb. :P
05:25*Bjarni wrote the PPC part and later realised it looks like a copy paste from the PPC manual
05:25<@Bjarni>took me ages to figure out PPC ASM >_<
05:26<@Bjarni>oh well... it's working
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05:47<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14088 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r5994): librt isn't needed to be linked against explicitly as we don't use any functionality of it.
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05:54<Ammler>can't Rubidium fix the nightly server? :-)
05:55<@Rubidium>he can't
05:56<Ammler>:-(
05:56<@Rubidium>as it isn't one of "our" servers
05:56<Ammler>yet :-)
05:56<@Rubidium>and this is also one of the reasons we wanted a new server
05:57<Yorick>what's broken?
05:58<@Rubidium>Yorick: proc06.bibl.u-szeged.hu
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>so, where's mihamix?
05:59<@Rubidium>at his new home waiting for the phone company to connect him to the phone and internet
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06:00<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably going to help ;)
06:00<Ammler>omg, that was a "private" server...
06:00<Ammler>well, it worked nice for that.
06:00<@Rubidium>Ammler: if "private" means "not of a company" then yes
06:00<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: no, it's at a university
06:01<Nite_Owl>Is the nightly download link broken or is it just me?
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>it's just you, i can assure you ;)
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06:08<Nite_Owl>Any clues?
06:08<Prof_Frink>Nite_Owl: Keep clicking it until it works.
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06:09<@peter1138>Rubidium, my company's servers are surely private...
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06:10<Doorslammer>Wow...
06:10<Prof_Frink>"lut.fi"? not "lut.ac.uk"?
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06:10<Doorslammer>A whole screen of blue text...
06:10<Prof_Frink>Doorslammer: -!- Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> reticulum.oftc.net quits: eQualizer|dada, FR^2, nfc, stillunknown, dih, jni, Noldo, Amixbook, @Bjarni, Lakie, (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
06:10<Doorslammer>:S
06:10<Prof_Frink>So much simpler :)
06:11<ln>what's wrong with "lut.fi"?
06:11<Doorslammer>Ah, mIRC doesnt state if a netsplit occurs...
06:11<Prof_Frink>ln: Loughborough's in England, innit?
06:11<ln>Prof_Frink: probably, but lut.fi doesn't mean Loughborough of Finland.
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06:12<Prof_Frink>How crazy.
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06:13<ln>universities both, though.
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06:25<ychaouche>hello world
06:25<ychaouche>wiki down ?
06:25<ychaouche>http://wiki.openttd.org/
06:25<ychaouche>I need the game manual
06:26<DJNekkid>openttd.org seems down
06:26<DJNekkid>atleast partially
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06:27<ychaouche>www.openttd.org up for me
06:27<FauxFaux>Heh, good to see nobody is using the rdtsc code. :)
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06:30<DJNekkid>oh :)
06:30*Prof_Frink waves http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ at #openttd
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06:32<Wolf01>hello
06:32<ychaouche>If I build a cargo depot close to a train station, is it gonna accept what the train comes with ? like coal, wood... ? because I want it to be carried by truck to a near place that is not reachable by train
06:32<ychaouche>I tried it but the trucks wont load anything
06:33<blathijs>ychaouche: If you set the train to "unload" at that station, it will
06:33<blathijs>ychaouche: But you will have to build the truck stop and the station close together, they should both get the same name (if they both get different signs with names above them, they're too far apart)
06:34<ychaouche>Ok, so "unload" order to be placed on the truck to get what's in the train station, and "load" to bring something to be carried by train, is that correct ?
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>ychaouche: you must place the truck stop exactly next to the train station, so they share a station sign
06:37<blathijs>ychaouche: No, the other way around
06:38<blathijs>ychaouche: The train must unload at the station, and the truck must load (though you can leave out the load, adding a "load" flag to an order means "don't leave until you're fully loaded"_
06:38<blathijs>s/_/)/
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06:42<ychaouche>Ok I'll try that
06:42<ychaouche>thx
06:42<ychaouche>another question relating to train stations
06:42<ychaouche>when you build one with say a width of 2
06:42<ychaouche>how do you extend it ?
06:43<@peter1138>Just build.
06:43<ychaouche>like when you want to add a wagon
06:43<ychaouche>ah
06:43<ychaouche>build another station next to it
06:43<ychaouche>?
06:43<@peter1138>It will expand it.
06:44<ychaouche>oh cool
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>you can add tiles to it, as long as you place them right next to it
06:44<ychaouche>Ok, coders who did that are pros
06:44<ychaouche>:)
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06:47<FauxFaux>On a related note, there's no way to split a large station into two station entities, right? (ie. seperate destinations / cargos)
06:48<@peter1138>Not an existing large station, no.
06:49<@peter1138>You can of course build it as two adjacent stations.
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>you can remove part of the station, and can build a new one with ctrl+click
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06:51<ychaouche>I can build an airport at the very beginning of the game, but how do I build aeronefs ?
06:51<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%2023.%20Maer%201942.png <- that's my version of a train<->truck transfer station
06:51<ychaouche>Oh sorry
06:51<ychaouche>I found out
06:52<ychaouche>never mind
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06:52<@peter1138>If I knew what an 'aeronef' was...
06:54<Prof_Frink>peter1138: Like a nef, but aero
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>(but i still don't understand that catenary pylon between the road bridge and the bus station... (in front of the power station)
06:58<FR^2>Is there any way to make sure a city will accept goods in the future? I often create a nice chain with a station in/near a city as endpoint, but then the city sometimes changes acceptance
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>argh... i know why i did not play on with that game... :p
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>FR^2: make sure the station is near the town center and the city is big enough
06:59<FR^2>hmm.
07:03<ychaouche>Eddi|zuHause: your version is very neat. How much before getting this big ?!! (popultion > 10.000)
07:03<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, a city like the one in the picture won't ever stop accepting goods
07:03<ychaouche>peter1138: Sorry, airplains.
07:03<ychaouche>I guess aeronefs is french only
07:04<Eddi|zuHause>ychaouche: that's not even my biggest city
07:04<ychaouche>ok how big is you biggest ?
07:04<ychaouche>:)
07:04<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14089 /trunk/src/ (train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix [FS#2219]: trains not being able to find a route to a depot when the front is already in the depot.
07:06<ychaouche>is that a bot ?
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>top three is 31.000, 27.000, 24.000
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>getting big cities is quite easy, a portion of towns have (City) in their name, they have increased growth... then place a few bus stations in there
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if the "city" feature is already in 0.6, though
07:10<ychaouche>amazing
07:10<ychaouche>ok thank you guys
07:10<ychaouche>gtg
07:10<ychaouche>ciao :)
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07:12<Ammler>does the windows installer for stable releases create the OpenTTD folder in MyDocs?
07:12<Ammler>(and copy original grfs there)
07:13<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14090 /trunk/src/ (roadveh.h roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Fix: the vehicle window of articulated road vehicles would show the clone/refit button when the vehicle was not completely stopped in the depot.
07:13<@Rubidium>AFAIK not
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07:17<@peter1138>Hm.
07:18<@peter1138>5500 passengers waiting at one station :o
07:19<@peter1138>Good ol' passenger destinations ;)
07:20*peter1138 adds another four 5-tile trains for the route.
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07:22<@peter1138>Should help a bit, now there are some spaces as the terminus at the next station is not cleared.
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07:49<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14091 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup (r14083): Remove superfluous '#include's.
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07:52<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14092 /trunk/src/ (order_cmd.cpp order_func.h): -Cleanup (r14083): dead code, i.e. unused function.
07:56<Eddi|zuHause>hm... these early cargo trams could use a slightly higher capacity
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07:57<Eddi|zuHause>one wagon of these carries 4t, while a rail wagon carries 15t
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08:10<@peter1138>Hmm, five routes out from my central major city, four of them from one station. Maybe five platforms isn't enough :)
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08:14<Ammler>peter1138: do you play a network cargo game?
08:16<@peter1138>Hmm?
08:16<@peter1138>No, it's local.
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08:18<@peter1138>Yay, replacing various steam engines with EE10000s :D
08:19<@peter1138>Hmm, I can't remember when the first DMU comes :o
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08:28<@peter1138>:o
08:28<@peter1138>29 trains at five platforms.
08:28*peter1138 ponders expansion.
08:28<@Rubidium>in the Z direction?
08:29<hylje> wish
08:30<@peter1138>Hehe :D
08:36<@peter1138>Hmm, trains seem to automatically prefer terminus platforms if they're going to go back when they leave.
08:37<hylje>magic
08:37<hylje>or just pathing beyond destinations
08:40<Wolf01>WTF! where's the win32 nightly? when I click on the link it says "firefox can't establish a connection with the server"
08:41<@Bjarni>...
08:41<@Bjarni>as several people have noticed already: we have server problems
08:41<Gekz>Bjarni: put it in the topic
08:42<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> Hmm, I can't remember when the first DMU comes :o <- the VT-137 comes in 1935 :p
08:42-!-Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.2 | we have server problems | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No unauthorised bots | We Love YAPP
08:42*Gekz claps sarcastically
08:42<Gekz>lol
08:42<hylje>golfclap
08:42<Gekz>Bjarni: no-one will notice it I tells ya
08:42<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, wrong, there is no such thing as a VT-137. You made it up.
08:42<Gekz>put it in caps
08:42<Gekz>WE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE NIGHTLIES SERVER
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>!!1!1111!!!eins!elf
08:43<Gekz>lol
08:43<FauxFaux>/TOPIC
08:44<@peter1138>Yay, it's now eight platforms.
08:45<Ammler>Wolf01: BOTTD should work
08:45<Wolf01>I have 2 repositories, but I'm working on 2 patches and I don't want to revert :P
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08:47-!-Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.2 | Some stuff on *.openttd.org is offline
08:47<@Bjarni>better?
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08:48<Sacro>Bjarni!
08:48<frosch123>do we no longer love yapp?
08:48<hylje>we hate it
08:49<Gekz>Bjarni: you seriously broke it
08:49<Gekz>:D
08:49<@Bjarni>I lost it in a bet
08:49<Ammler>frosch123: no need anymore, it is in trunk... :-P
08:50<Ammler>now, people will only complain about YAPP...
08:50<frosch123>Ammler: ah yes - of course - once married ...
08:52<Ammler>indeed.
08:52-!-dragonhorseboy [4a396fef@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd
08:52<dragonhorseboy>hey
08:53<Ammler>why is that rv debug output that important? (low level)
08:54<@peter1138>Yeah, maybe those TTDPatch players who believe that PBS should be able to be mixed with pre-signals...
08:54<Ammler>peter1138: it is very well combineable with presignals
08:55<Ammler>you can now build prios through double lines :-)
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08:57<Ammler>one little thing I have trouble with is, the waiting for free path, if there will never be a free path...
08:58<Ammler>but that might a very tricky one, else michi_cc would fixed it a long time ago, I told him that many times :-)
08:58*dragonhorseboy used to have 2-platform through stations on some of my mainlines with no platform signals at all but the trains rather just picking their right of way through it ;)
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>hm... the primary and secondary colours on the trams are mixed up...
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08:59<dragonhorseboy>to me it just seem easier but to our own of course
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>i need 2cc setting for each vehicle type individually :p
08:59<dragonhorseboy>eddi heh do you use 2cc often I take it?
08:59<Ammler>for each single rv..
08:59-!-Amixbook [~Amix2008@106.80-203-44.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>or infrastructure sharing, so i can use an extra company for the trams than for the tram stops
09:00<Brianetta>hola
09:00<dragonhorseboy>hey brianetta
09:00*Brianetta is chatting from Esquires Coffee Shop, Eldon Square, Newcastle upon Tyne
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09:03<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: do you browse with Konqueror?
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>no, i wrote that post out of fun...
09:03<Ammler>:P
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>browsing the forum is ok, but posting is the horror...
09:05<Ammler>well, only 1.63% :-(
09:05<Ammler>-well
09:05<dragonhorseboy>1.63%...?
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09:07<Eddi|zuHause>... that use a browser other than IE and Firefox
09:08<dragonhorseboy>hmm 1.63 seem a bit low but then I guess thats just one specific group of users tho
09:09<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: so firefox on linux isn't meant as linux browser?
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i'm not sure...
09:10<dragonhorseboy>hmm I wonder what kind of $ midori must be showing by now
09:10<dragonhorseboy>%*
09:10<dragonhorseboy>meh
09:11<dragonhorseboy>if its showing as 0.00 then I think there's an issue with whatever app is trying to gather the status
09:11<Ammler>I previed a little bit KDE4, can't think of abstain from Konqueror then...
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09:13<Eddi|zuHause>what's a midori?
09:14<hylje>a flavor of Vista the Windows
09:15<dragonhorseboy>nope
09:15<Gekz>Lol.
09:15<Gekz>Midori is a web browser
09:15<Gekz>!
09:15<dragonhorseboy>midori is just a good web browser, next time figure out how to look online? :p
09:16<Yorick>midori is a flavor of Vista
09:16<Yorick>http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=12542
09:16<Gekz>Nay sir.
09:16<Gekz>Yorick: you're completely wrong
09:17<Gekz>its Microsoft's new economy-breaking bitch
09:17<Gekz>they're new non-Windows OS plan
09:17<hylje>given your reasoning
09:17<Yorick>the economy is already broken
09:17<hylje>we are all wrong
09:18<Gekz>their8
09:18<Gekz>their*
09:18<Gekz>wrong their >_>!
09:20<dragonhorseboy>well I need to afk for a while to shower ^_^
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09:42<Nite_Owl>Anyone have an idea when the servers will be back up?
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09:42<Gekz>when they are
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09:43<Nite_Owl>Thank you.
09:43<@Rubidium>Nite_Owl: please inquire at the University of Szeged
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09:44<dragonhorseboy>back
09:44<@Rubidium>or actually the library thereof
09:45<dragonhorseboy>gekz...either way I've got two installs of midori .. one on windows and one on the occassional bsd ... sometimes I'm wishing I had known of midori (windows-wise) a lot earlier but go figure
09:45<dragonhorseboy>it loads quickly and doens't even use much resource altogether
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09:56<@peter1138>I want another coop game...
09:56<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14093 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2230]: don't flood a NewGRF industry when it implicitly tells that it wants to be build on water (land shape flags bit 5).
09:58*dragonhorseboy would had signed up too if I even knew anyone with my version of openttd ^_^
09:58<@peter1138>s/had/have/
09:59<@peter1138>Easy enough to keep multiple versions, heh...
10:00<Wolf01>nice... I thought that bug was caused by the oldAI
10:02<dragonhorseboy>peter..not really especially when they can't even use cfg's .. but then meh
10:02<@peter1138>Can't what?
10:03<dragonhorseboy>wolf01 heh I think its probably related to the water airports too
10:03<Wolf01>?_?
10:04<@peter1138>Yeah, airports are industries now... :o
10:06<Wolf01>the only airport-industry which exists in the game is the oil rig... and the AI doesn't build industries...
10:06<@peter1138>Quite.
10:09<@peter1138>I wonder if rail type support should be overlay *only*...
10:10<frosch123>what would be the alternative?
10:11<hylje>overlay somewhere, somewhere not
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10:12<@peter1138>frosch123, current style sprites which include the landscape.
10:12<frosch123>then I vote for overlay only :)
10:14<dragonhorseboy>sorry didn't noticed you were asking me peter... to put it short: moving from 0.5.3 to anything newer seem to not even use the provided cfg file at all for no reason (meaning: no custom settings applied) ... never can figure out whats even with that [and for a test I got 0.4.7 and it saw the ex-053 cfg just fine]
10:15<@peter1138>Anything newer uses the config in your home directory.
10:16<dragonhorseboy>home directory? thats the openttd folder .. which is why I just don't understand this
10:18<@peter1138>Home directory.
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10:20<dragonhorseboy>what do you exactly mean by home directory?
10:20<@peter1138>The usual meaning of home directory.
10:20<+glx>mydocs\opentd
10:20<dragonhorseboy>and that is the openttd folder ... ?
10:20<@peter1138>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_directory
10:20<+glx>where is your openttd.cfg?
10:22<dragonhorseboy>glx...the one for 053 was in the openttd folder as always had been for several updates (I can't remember the first openttd version I used.. probably like 041-something?)
10:22<+glx><@peter1138> Anything newer uses the config in your home directory. <-- unless it finds an openttd.cfg in bin dir
10:22<+glx>dragonhorseboy: what settings are not applied?
10:23<dragonhorseboy>glx...just about anything thats not original as far as I could tell when comparing 053 and 061 while both were running (especially in train-wait-at-signal being noticeable)
10:23<+glx>what value?
10:26<@peter1138>Anyway, only server owners edit the config by hand. Everyone else does the configuration in game...
10:27<+glx>some settings are not in GUI
10:27<dragonhorseboy>trying find it again one moment glx
10:27<dragonhorseboy>and peter...well the in-game patch window obviously only has like about half of the possible settings present so figured
10:28<@peter1138>Obviously.
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10:36<dragonhorseboy>oneway is 76 (as its often for traffic managing either on long mainline or at fullload-waiting factory/etc) ... twoway is 26 (since its often only in certain junctions&stations where if its not free after a while the train can just go hoof a different route to drop off the same cargo)
10:36<dragonhorseboy>with the default settings (as soon as you use that instead of custom in some of the saves I've had) trains just suddenly start showing up in odd places or keep turning around too often
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10:50<dragonhorseboy>either way glx just wondering about one question now that I think about it
10:50<dragonhorseboy>oh hm nevermind
10:50<dragonhorseboy>not related
10:51<dragonhorseboy>meh :p
10:51<@Bjarni>you are right
10:51<@Bjarni>dragons and horses aren't related :p
10:53<dragonhorseboy>bjarni..nah I was just thinking of a file directory question
10:53<dragonhorseboy>and you're weird
10:53<dragonhorseboy>;)
10:54<@Bjarni>you call yourself a dragonhorse and you call me weird???
10:55<|Jeroen|>lol
10:58<Gekz>Bjarni: you killed the poor boys self-esteem
10:58<Gekz>now he's going to be a rapist
10:58<Gekz>:/
10:58<Sacro>rapist?
10:58<@Bjarni>forget about Sacro
10:59<@Bjarni>he considers it a positive word
10:59<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: I've tried.
10:59<Gekz>lolol
10:59<Gekz>I'm going to sleep
10:59<Gekz>night
10:59<dragonhorseboy>bye gekz
10:59<@Bjarni><Prof_Frink> Bjarni: I've tried. <-- being a rapist?
10:59<Prof_Frink>forgetting about Sacro
10:59<Prof_Frink>Oh, Sacro? YOu just lost the game.
10:59<Gekz>He uses Arch Linux.
10:59<Gekz>KILL HIM.
11:00<Sacro>sigh
11:00<Gekz>less
11:01<@Bjarni>forget about who?
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11:04<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r14094 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Revert (r14071): caused more problems than it solved
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>multistop for drivethrough stops needs a lookahead for the next stop, when one can't use non-nonstop orders...
11:19<Amixbook>Bjarni: :)
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11:30<Tekky>I have a little problem with ECS Vectors: I need to transport sand, but I am unable to find any train wagon type which can be refitted to sand. I am using DBSetXL with the ECS extension.
11:33<Progman>the dbsexl with the ECS extension got sand-waggons ;)
11:35<Progman>the first after the pax-trains can transport sand
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11:35<Tekky>ah, I just noticed that the DBSetXL ECS extension did not load properly, because it is incompatible with some other NewGRF I had loaded.
11:35<Tekky>Problem solved, thx :)
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11:36<LA>aww.. so laconic topic :P
11:36<LA>moving servers?
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11:37<Prof_Frink>Serverfail.
11:38<LA>k
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11:59<Tekky>shouldn't FS#2057 be reopened if it was closed for being fixed by r14071 but then reverted by r14094?
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12:20<@Rubidium>Tekky: with no way to reproduce or to get information about the issue I don't think it's useful to reopen
12:22<@Rubidium>and the solution to that bug, centering at (min_x + max_x)/2, (min_y + max_y)/2, fails on many many more systems than the single system of that person
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12:47<FauxFaux>Anyone happen to have a latest stable windows build with desynch debugging on? :)
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12:50<@Rubidium>I don't think so
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12:51<hylje>Rubidium: suggestion to use a macro avg(A, B)
12:52<hylje>oh nevermind, just eyed some code in the top of my viewport
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13:25<@peter1138>Pom te pom...
13:29*peter1138 resyncs cargodest
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13:30<Eddi|zuHause>not sync, commit!
13:30<@peter1138>How silly. Individual petrol stations in TTRS3 do not accept fuel oil...
13:33<Ammler>peter1138: which set?
13:33<@peter1138>... TTRS3 ...
13:33<Ammler>(industry set, I meant)
13:33<@peter1138>PBI.
13:33<@peter1138>They accept fuel-oil, but only 6/8.
13:34<Ammler>so you would need 2?
13:34<@peter1138>Yup.
13:34<@peter1138>I wanted to setup a road distribution network to lots of petrol stations, but most won't accept it :(
13:36<Wolf01>I have a city full filled with petrol stations... an airport and that's no more a matter
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13:38<Ammler>hmm, didn't recognize that, just the walking around in the city...
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, the 6/8 thing is kinda stupid...
13:39<Ammler>you need to move the drop around every 10-20 years...
13:40<Ammler>does a roadstop also need 8/8?
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13:40<januzi>hello
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13:51<Eddi|zuHause>any station needs 8/8
13:52<Ammler>such things will change with cargo dest anyway :-9
13:52<Roujin>uhmm. no?
13:53<Roujin>cargodest has nothing to do with this 8/8 mechanism?
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13:56<Ammler>hmm newgrf gui doesn't apply to trunk
13:57<Ammler>Roujin: how does calc how many a destination will accept?
13:57<Ammler>*it*
13:57<Ammler>currently it is random, but I assume, that will change...
14:01<@peter1138>It will still be 6/8, and thus not accept with only one.
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14:03<@peter1138>Was there a working YAPP-based order priority patch?
14:04<Roujin>cargodest currently has only very basic support of biasing where cargos will go. currently only station type (train, bus, airport, port) influences it
14:04<Roujin>but it's mentioned in the todo list
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14:06<blotek>why ottd wiki doesnt work ?:>
14:06<Roujin>it's down
14:06<blotek>pernamently ?
14:06<frosch123>see topic :p
14:07<blotek>ahh ok ;)
14:08<januzi>where can I find plstations_d definition ?
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14:10<@Rubidium>I reckon station_gui.cpp of an 'ancient' OTTD
14:12<FauxFaux>Someone fix the wiki. /o\
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14:13<@Rubidium>FauxFaux: I'd say call the sysadmin of the server
14:14<@Rubidium>I'd've done it myself IF I knew his/her phone number
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14:19<alex>http://nightly.openttd.org/source/
14:19<alex>broken?
14:20<@peter1138>Yes.
14:20<@peter1138>See topic.
14:20<alex>ah :)
14:20<@peter1138>Hmm, cargodest does not understand refitting.
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14:22<Tekky>peter1138: I am unaware of any order priority patch, and I am also unaware of any YAPP patch concerning priorities.
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14:26<@peter1138>A simple no would suffice ;)
14:26<@peter1138>Bah, silly articulated RV got stuck on a double level crossing :o
14:26<@Rubidium>splut-boom ;)
14:30<@peter1138>Indeed.
14:32<@peter1138>Do you agree with only supporting overlay drawing for new rail/road types?
14:34<FauxFaux>Looking at the desync logs (obviously the wiki page that's supposed to be telling me what to look for is gone), ignoring tree_cmd.cpp:675 discrepancies, it appears to be Random [10881/16] src/vehicle.cpp:1511, which is in the middle of the breakdown code.. even though breadowns are disabled. This only happens on toyland, any wild guesses?
14:36<@peter1138>Er...
14:36<@peter1138>Since when did trains stop instantly?
14:37<FauxFaux>The turn around button has made them stop quickly for a while.
14:37<@peter1138>The turn around button makes them stop slowly.
14:37-!-Yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:37<@peter1138>The stop button is now stopping instantly.
14:37<Prof_Frink>The dynamite button makes them stop rather sharpish
14:37<Yorick>I suspect the new autoreplace and the command merge
14:38<Prof_Frink>Or, indeed, reversing the next signal
14:38<@peter1138>r14076... checking.
14:39<@peter1138>Yorick, correct.
14:39<Yorick>FauxFaux: it does not only happen on toyland
14:39<Yorick>Brianetta reproduced it on temperate
14:39<FauxFaux>It happens every approximately 60 seconds on toyland for meee.
14:39<FauxFaux>Yorick: Issue number?
14:40<Yorick>not submitted yet, I think
14:40<FauxFaux>>.<
14:40<Yorick>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=39022
14:41<frosch123>oh, the "cur_speed" :s
14:42<FauxFaux>Thanks Yorick. :/
14:43<Yorick>frosch123: you just copied the aircraft one :)
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14:44<Wolf01>'night
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14:44<Yorick>you also forgot the start/stop callback
14:45<Yorick>oh, you didn't
14:46<frosch123>Yorick: You have to check whether I should not have added invalidating of the vehicle lists :p
14:47<Yorick>not for trains
14:48<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14095 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r14076): Trains shall not stop instantly.
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14:52<@peter1138>\o/
14:52<FauxFaux>Heh. :)
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>hm... where is the calculation of transfer credit done?
14:55<Ammler>is there a debug level, which you see clients commands?
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14:58<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i think there is a special define for that
15:00<CelestarT42p>heyo all
15:00<Prof_Frink>Celestar!
15:01<Vikthor>hi CelestarT42p
15:01<@Bjarni>hello Celestar
15:01<CelestarT42p>(=
15:01<CelestarT42p>how's everyone?
15:01<@Bjarni>@seen everyone
15:01<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: everyone was last seen in #openttd 29 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 9 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: * Everyone has aids
15:01<@Bjarni>ohh
15:01<@Bjarni>looks bad
15:02<CelestarT42p>:P
15:02*CelestarT42p pokes Bjarni
15:02<@Bjarni>you have AIDS too?
15:02<@peter1138>Hi CelestarT42p.
15:02<FauxFaux>Everyone has aids.
15:03<@peter1138>Pull ;)
15:03<hylje>hearing aids
15:03*FauxFaux hurls a dinner plate into the air.
15:03<@Bjarni>o_O
15:03<@Bjarni>a flying saucer o_O
15:04*Bjarni puts on his tin foil hat and calls the newspaper on a video phone to explain the situation
15:04<CelestarT42p>peter1138: I'm just playtesting cargodest (=
15:05<@peter1138>Me too. I fixed a refit bug.
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>CelestarT42p: multistop for drive through stops needs a lookahead for the next station
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>it's vital since you can't leave out the order because of cargodest
15:08<Yorick>there is currently no multistop for drive through stops
15:09<frosch123>Yorick: but eddi pointed out a second issue, that seems to be a lot harder solvable than the first one
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>Yorick: CelestarT42p said he wanted to tackle that problem, so i give my input about what i think might be needed
15:10<Yorick>ok :)
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15:11<@peter1138>No multistop for drive through stops...?
15:11<frosch123>multistop for non non-stop orders
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>technically, there is multistop, only it misbehaves
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15:15<@Bjarni>こんばんわ Roujin さん
15:16<frosch123>@trigger ln
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15:16<CelestarT42p>peter1138: where can I clone?
15:16<CelestarT42p>peter1138: found it ;)
15:16<Yorick>"<Bjarni> Roujin's KONBANWA" :O
15:18-!-daspork [~daspork@24-158-111-118.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:19<@Bjarni>Yorick: ?
15:19-!-daspork [~daspork@24-158-111-118.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #openttd
15:19<Yorick>Bjarni: translation :)
15:20<@Bjarni>stupid translator :P
15:20-!-teadragon is now known as welshdragon
15:20<@Bjarni>looks like it not only failed on the meaning, it even failed on every single word
15:21<@Bjarni>which translator did you use?
15:21<Yorick>google
15:23<@Bjarni>It is dense, it is, it is [wa] Roujin <-- this is what babelfish translates it to
15:23<@Bjarni>which is.... WHAT?
15:23<@Bjarni>that makes even less sense
15:23<CelestarT42p>Bjarni: lol
15:24<CelestarT42p>meh
15:24<CelestarT42p>can't build any bridges :S
15:24<CelestarT42p>SUCKS
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>wrong year? wrong bridgeset?
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>we need car ferries...
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>or horse carriage ferries ;)
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>and we need an 18th century industry set...
15:28<@peter1138>Make it!
15:29-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:30<@Bjarni>lol
15:30<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: and houses
15:30<@Bjarni>if I write the same thing in kanji on both google and babelfish they both come up with a new translation
15:30<@Bjarni>but they have yet to get the right one :P
15:32<+glx>I just needed to use a kanji to romaji converter to understand it
15:33<@Bjarni>I think you mean kana to romaji, but that's besides the point
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15:33<@Bjarni>I didn't write any kanji as Roujin has kanji encoding problems (or font problems)
15:34<@Bjarni>glx: wouldn't you agree that the translators should be able to translate this one?
15:34<@Bjarni>a translator that fails this one is kind of worthless
15:34<@peter1138>I've just realised...
15:34<+glx>indeed they should yes
15:34<@peter1138>We can no longer blame Bjarni when autoreplace breaks, can we?
15:35<hylje>how so
15:35<@Bjarni>:D
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>:)
15:35<@Bjarni>hylje: frosch molested it and removed all the known bugs
15:35<Ammler>did frosch commit his patch?
15:35<+glx>Bjarni: though you misspelled it ;)
15:36<frosch123>I already survived 29 hours :)
15:36<+glx>it's こんばんは
15:36<@Bjarni>and it's hard to recognise it anymore
15:36<Ammler>frosch123: rev?
15:36<@Bjarni>glx: I know but it's such a common spelling error that it's in the dictionary
15:37<@Bjarni>but writing it correctly in either kana or kanji didn't help the translators >_<
15:37<frosch123>r14083 - r14085 and some more clean-ups
15:38<Ammler>maybe you disconnected the nightly, so nobody can test it P
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15:38<frosch123>I guess yesterday's nightly was available yesterday
15:38<+glx>Bjarni: but google gives a better translation (still not right) with the correct spelling
15:39<+glx>at least the global sense of the sentence is there ;)
15:39<@Bjarni>yeah
15:39<@Bjarni>but that's not good enough
15:39<@Bjarni>it's still somewhat fucked
15:40<@Rubidium>not to mention that today's nightly is more or less succesful too
15:40<+glx>it's funny with "sama"
15:41<@Bjarni>LOL
15:41<@Bjarni>now that's really fucked up
15:41<+glx>with "chan" it's right
15:42<@Bjarni>both the translation and appending さま to Roujin
15:42*peter1138 ponders doing 'abandoned rail' as a new track type...
15:42<hylje>disused
15:43<Sacro>peter1138: if it is unused then why?
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15:44<hylje>Sacro: it used to be used, thats why
15:45<Sacro>used to be used?
15:45<hylje>in the past
15:46<@peter1138>It used to be used, then it was not used.
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: did you consider railtypes with speed limit?
15:48<hylje>what attributes a rail segment may have
15:48<hylje>gauge, speed limit..
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure people will soon complain about adding support for even more railtypes afterwards ;)
15:49*Bjarni decreases the trust estimation of google translate from "untrustworthy" to "worthless toy only useful for a laugh"
15:49<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, of course :)
15:49<@peter1138>But gauge is not relevant.
15:50<hylje>what attributes are?
15:51<+glx>max weight
15:51<Sacro>peter1138: not what she said
15:51<hylje>powered type
15:53-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-228-27.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:55<@peter1138>glx, what would happen if it's too heavy?
15:55<hylje>no go
15:55<@peter1138>Stuck forever?
15:55<@Rubidium>going *very* slow
15:55<+glx>it can damage the track
15:55<hylje>same way electric trains are locked out from non-el
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>hylje: weight can change outside of depots, electric traction can't
15:56<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14096 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: merge the shared order's vehicle list management to a single location.
15:56<hylje>granted
15:57<hylje>but a train may stop loading after the track it is on couldnt handle it
15:57<hylje>convoluted, yes
15:59<hylje>weight changes not at depots, but at stations
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16:08<@peter1138>Hmm, some kind of bug with destination s:o
16:11<@peter1138>Also it would be useful if RVs could overtake at a drive-through stop
16:12<Sacro>Rubidium: argh, apostrophe abuse
16:13<Prof_Frink>apo'stophe abu'se?
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see an apostrophe
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i'm sure that has been suggested at least half a dozen times :p
16:14<Yorick>Eddi: "order's"
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>and where is the problem there?
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>could possibly be "orders'"
16:15<@Rubidium>Sacro: what's wrong with it? 's is used for possession, right?
16:16<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: I think you're right.
16:16<@Rubidium>or however one would write pos+es+ion
16:16<Prof_Frink>If orders is plural
16:16<Sacro>hmm, doesn't look right
16:17<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: Just claim to be a greengrocer.
16:17<Sacro>banana's
16:17<Prof_Frink>apple's
16:17<Sacro>pear's!
16:18<Prof_Frink>POTATO'S
16:18<@Rubidium>but still, what's wrong?
16:18<@peter1138>"its" is possession.
16:18<Prof_Frink>It's.
16:18<@Rubidium>should I say "Sacro beer is stolen by Prof_Frink" or "Sacro's beer is stolen by Prof_Frink"?
16:19<Sacro>Rubidium: i don't drink :p
16:19<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: Sacro is a freak
16:19<@Rubidium>if I was abusing apostrophes the former should be grammatically right
16:19<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: No, the abuse was "order's" rather than "orders'"
16:20<ln>prolaag
16:20<Sacro>prolog!
16:20<Prof_Frink>prologue.
16:20<ln>oh, we're talking about apostrophes
16:21<@Rubidium>Prof_Frink: also if I mean the vehicle list management of a shared order?
16:21<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: I give up. Sacro's wrong. He also lost the game.
16:22<Sacro>sigh
16:22<ln>Let me suggest that "order's" looks strange to Sacro because the 's genitive is usually used for people and other living things.
16:23<Roujin>that remembers me of a funny sentence I've read somewhere..
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>so... why do we still not have underground rails?
16:23<ln>Roujin: *reminds
16:23<Prof_Frink>peter1138! NewUndergroundRails!
16:23<Roujin>oops
16:23<Roujin>reminds, alright :P
16:23<SmatZ>toyland is not multiplayer safe since r10770 (probably) and nobody reported it :-P
16:23<@peter1138>We have underground rails
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>we have no underground curves, switches or signals, though ;)
16:24<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: Commit by rubidium :: r10770 /trunk/src (9 files) (2007-08-03 19:36:00 UTC)
16:24<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: -Codechange: use the pool item class as super class for the vehicle struct.
16:24<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: -Codechange: do not force "special" vehicles to be allocated in the low 1024 vehicle slots and non "special" vehicles in the rest of the slots.
16:24<Prof_Frink>SmatZ: Toyland is not sanity-safe
16:24<@peter1138>We do. We have all of those things. You just can't see them.
16:24<Roujin>it goes like.. Capitalisation is the difference between "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse" and "I helped my uncle jack off a horse" :P
16:25<@Bjarni>Roujin: old
16:25<@Bjarni>and off topic
16:25<@Bjarni>or maybe not
16:25<@Bjarni>the topic is lack of sanity
16:26<ln>oh my gebühreneinzugszentrale, die topic sagt nichts om vilken språk man borde tala.
16:27<@peter1138>SmatZ, by "probably" do you mean you are guessing, or you have tested and confirmed this?
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>it read like "i'm not sure if this is really the cause"
16:28<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: same here
16:28-!-planetmaker is now known as pm|away
16:28<@Bjarni>damn
16:28<@Bjarni>now who is going to make our new planets?
16:28<ln>pm|away: no away nicks
16:29-!-CelestarT42p [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D8336.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
16:29<CelestarT42p>meh
16:29<SmatZ>peter1138: probably, I haven't not tested r10769 yet ... but before this commit, effect vehicle IDs were separated for normal vehicle IDs ... and bubble generator in toyland generates bubbles (effect vehicles) in a non-synchronised way
16:29<Ammler>ln: yxou should tell that, if they enter not leave...
16:29<SmatZ>peter1138: or something like that :)
16:30<CelestarT42p>peter1138:
16:30<CelestarT42p>peter1138: going to do some MP test tomorrow
16:31<@peter1138>SmatZ, right, it uses InteractiveRandom()...
16:31<@peter1138>CelestarT42p, well, I'm going to work tomorrow :p
16:32<CelestarT42p>peter1138: I will too, but I'll set up some server and hope others will join :P
16:32<@peter1138>SmatZ, change to Random, and save the spritenum...
16:32<@peter1138>Which, incidentally, always was saved...
16:34-!-DJNekkid [~chatzilla@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]]
16:35<Roujin>CelestarT42p: if I'm online I'll surely join
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16:36<SmatZ>peter1138: hehe glx came with that idea, too :) I wonder if there is any reason why it is coded this way...
16:37<+glx>it was already like that in r942
16:38*glx continues to dig
16:39<Roujin>by the way, I'm wondering about something in CargoDest. Say the stations graph is not a tree (so there a circles). Which way from A to B will a cargopacket take?
16:39-!-Guest2204 [~Brainstor@82-171-5-111.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:39<+glx>hmm indeed it is since r942
16:39<+glx>(branch/network merge)
16:40<Roujin>Any? Only shortest? And if the latter, how is "shortest" measured? Number of hops? Sum of manhattan distances? Something more sophisticated?
16:40<SmatZ>:)
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>Roujin: i think the sophistication of that was pushed back :)
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>i assume it's number of hops currently
16:49<CelestarT42p>l
16:49<CelestarT42p>I wonder wth is wrong with my conn
16:49<CelestarT42p>I wonder wth is wrong with my conn
16:50<CelestarT42p>Roujin: "shortest" route is taken
16:50<Roujin>CelestarT42p: As in Manhattan?
16:51-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd
16:51<Roujin>or as in shortest path of an unweighted graph
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>shortest path in a weighted graph that might not have any sensible weights currently...
16:52<Prof_Frink>12 tonnes!
16:54<CelestarT42p>Roujin: Manhattan * vehicle_type_weight
16:55<Roujin>ah, thanks! that's probably doing quite well..
16:56<Roujin>and I suppose it's going all-or-nothing, meaning all packets will take the best path (calculated with that measure)
16:56<CelestarT42p>where the type_weight is currenty 1,2,3,4 for air, rail, road, ship
16:57<CelestarT42p>Roujin: correct
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>it might be better if it would be somewhat distributed
16:57<CelestarT42p>doing this differently is easy later on
16:57-!-Yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
16:57<Roujin>I see..
16:57<CelestarT42p>just derive a new class from Routing_t and rewrite UseVehicle()
16:57<Roujin>Eddi|zuHause: well that's open for discussion..
16:58<CelestarT42p>the idea of the whole thing is to make it easily extensible
16:58<Roujin>that's always good :)
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>Roujin: there are two separate problems: a) defining a better weight calculation (that should be pretty easy, and probably adjustable like yapf penalties), b) allowing people to choose (randomly?) by the optimal or some slightly less optimal routes
17:00<CelestarT42p>Eddi|zuHause: a) isn't easy.
17:00<CelestarT42p>coding it is easy, defining it is not easy
17:00<CelestarT42p>b) is quite simple imho
17:01<CelestarT42p>I'm going to bed now :D
17:01<CelestarT42p>cu
17:02-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F57107.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>not all people going from Halle to Leipzig take the IC (fastest, most expensive), some take the RE (slightly slower, but cheaper) or the S-Bahn (a lot more intermediate stops, same price as RE)
17:03-!-KillaloT [~killalot@0x5738c8ca.rdnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!]
17:03<CelestarT42p>Eddi|zuHause: I assume the IC is like 7 minutes faster?
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>i have not checked the actual numbers...
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>the RE might have an additional stop, not sure
17:05-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
17:05<CelestarT42p>I gotta go anyway
17:05<Roujin>I think I have just spotted a bug concerning YAPP/PBS... but in my cargodest build
17:05<CelestarT42p>we can discuss tomorrow, cu
17:05<Roujin>cu Celestar
17:06<Roujin>wonder if it happens in trunk too...
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>IC: 32 min, RE: 33 min, S: 44min
17:07<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14097 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix [FS#2085]: one couldn't get a list of vehicles sharing an order when the number of orders was 0; you could see that the vehicles had a shared order though.
17:07<CelestarT42p>that's no big difference
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>there's one of each at each hour
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>there's not a big difference if you go 160km/h or 200km/h for 40km...
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>especially when you have an intermediate stop at the airport
17:08<@Rubidium>where the IC waits longer than the RE
17:10-!-Roujin_ [~chatzilla@p54972686.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>hm... this query thing is silly, it adds 7 minutes walking from "Leipzig Hbf" to "Leipzig, Hauptbahnhof"...
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>so substract 7 minutes from each of the times above...
17:13<CelestarT42p>Eddi|zuHause: bahn.de?
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>no, nasa.de
17:13<CelestarT42p>:P
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>(Nahverkehrsgesellschaft Sachsen-Anhalt)
17:14<CelestarT42p>haha
17:14<ln>Eddi|zuHause: what's their schedule for the Moon?
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>ln: through the tunnel to the centre of the moon?
17:15<CelestarT42p>sounds like Munich(-Pasing)-Stuttgart. the ICE takes as long as the IC (between 2:14 and 2:18), but the ICE is almost 20% more expensive
17:16<CelestarT42p>43 EUR for the IC, 50 EUR for the ICE.
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>ln: it wants to redirect me to Montabaur instead...
17:16<CelestarT42p>That's braindead that is
17:16-!-Roujin [~chatzilla@p54972686.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:17<CelestarT42p>Eddi|zuHause: what is interesting: the ICE is not faster than the IC, but has fewer stops. How do they manage that?
17:17<@Rubidium>waiting longer
17:18*CelestarT42p still doesn't understand the *point* of ICE
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>i only ever went by ICE when it was free... (paid by the army)
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>and then only rarely, because the only direct connection was an RE
17:23-!-welshdragon is now known as welshdra-GONE
17:24<CelestarT42p>Rubidium: why would an ICE wait longer than an IC
17:24<@Rubidium>because of connecting services?
17:25<Ammler>they wait for ICE
17:25<CelestarT42p>DB simply sucks :P
17:26<ln>we have this "bullet train" here, aka Pendolino, which on many routes operates at 120 km/h.
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Cottbus%20Transport,%2023.%20Mai%201925.png <- i need a bridge here :(
17:27-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-108-163.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
17:27-!-Roujin_ is now known as Roujin
17:27<Lakie>Funnily enough, Bridges don't do diagonials yet
17:27<ln>rarely over 200 km/h, 220 being the maximum.
17:28<ln>still the Pendolino tickets are more expensive and Pendolinos are more unreliable than other trains.
17:28<ln>(ciao a tutti)
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>engl... oh, right...
17:29<ln>that was to indicate the origins of Pendolino
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>Lakie: the problem is, that TGP generates too realistic landscapes, that practically cry for diagonal bridges and tunnels...
17:30<Lakie>HEhe
17:30<Lakie>I've heard arguements for them before.
17:31<Lakie>Mainly with the patch though, in which cause it comes down to too much work for too little gain, not idea what the OpenTTD dev's stances are though
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>there are practically no situations where you can reasonably place straight bridges/tunnels
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>OTTD goes the mathmatics way... "we do that fully flexible, so diagonal will only be a tiny special case" ;)
17:33<Lakie>Heh
17:33<CelestarT42p>hm ...
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>of course that is such a huge task so nobody attempts to tackle it :p
17:34<CelestarT42p>DB paid 3.6 billion EUR for 70km worth of 300km/h track between Ingolstadt and Nuremburg
17:34<Prof_Frink>What we need is an eis_os of openttd
17:34<Prof_Frink>Impossible? I had that for breakfast,
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: that'll probably raise copyright concerns :p
17:34<CelestarT42p>that's 51000 EUR per meter of track
17:35<CelestarT42p>Prof_Frink: why do we need an eis_os?
17:35<Prof_Frink>CelestarT42p: Well, he does like to do the impossible
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>we have a peter "oh-i-have-a-patch-for-that" 1138
17:36<Prof_Frink>Ah yes.
17:36<CelestarT42p>Prof_Frink: diagonal bridges are not impossible
17:36<CelestarT42p>not sure they're even hard
17:36<Prof_Frink>CelestarT42p: That sounds like volunteering to me.
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>last time you said "diagonal bridges are a bitch" :p
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>that was like a year ago, with the bridge branch ;)
17:37<+glx>the branch was for cbh
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>or was that two years?
17:37<CelestarT42p>that was cbh
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>no, i think that was before cbh
17:37<CelestarT42p>cbh hit some other problems
17:37<CelestarT42p>methinks we should have a bridge pool :P
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>when you did flexible things under bridges, and crossing bridges
17:37<@peter1138>http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/3d/tunnel.png < Just make that work ;)
17:38<@peter1138>http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/3d/Quarnville Transport, 14th Jan 1990.png < And that
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas was working on something like a bridge pool, i think
17:39<Roujin>heh alright, here comes peter "oh-i-have-a-patch-for-that" 1138 :D
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>i'm getting 404 on that last one
17:39<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: spaces in URL
17:39<Prof_Frink>copypate it.
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>no, i copypasted it with the spaces
17:39<+glx>Roujin: in that case he doesn't have the patch ;)
17:39<ln>peter1138: URLs can't have spaces
17:39<Prof_Frink>ln: They work fine here
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>Roujin: that was smatz's patch
17:40<@peter1138>Try telling Firefox that...
17:40<Roujin>try http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/3d/Quarnville%20Transport,%2014th%20Jan%201990.png
17:40<+glx>here too, I just needed to copy/paste the url
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>that works... weird
17:43-!-xyz [~sss@bas4-montreal02-1096722841.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd
17:44<@peter1138>Part of my rail type spec will include provisions for sprites for future features, anyway...
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>hm... the "cargo tram" of the german RV set is too camouflage coloured... you barely see it, especially when it's empty
17:45<@peter1138>(Same for roads)
17:45<ln>peter1138: 2.3. Unreserved Characters
17:45<ln> Characters that are allowed in a URI but do not have a reserved
17:45<ln> purpose are called unreserved. These include uppercase and lowercase
17:45<ln> letters, decimal digits, hyphen, period, underscore, and tilde.
17:45<ln> unreserved = ALPHA / DIGIT / "-" / "." / "_" / "~"
17:45<xyz>hello
17:46<@peter1138>ln, tell that to the Firefox developers, not me.
17:46<xyz>why am i unable to change the competitor start time in map editor?
17:46<Prof_Frink>And indeed konqui devs
17:46<ln>peter1138: I'm telling you your spaceish URL is not a valid one.
17:47<Prof_Frink>ln: And we're telling you it works.
17:47<@peter1138>I'm telling you I don't care.
17:47<Prof_Frink>That too.
17:47<Lakie>Spaces are allowed
17:47<@peter1138>I copied it from the URL 'bar' in Firefox.
17:47<Lakie>Most internet clients merely convert them to %20 though
17:47-!-CelestarT42p [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D8336.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:47*peter1138 ponders sleep.
17:47<ln>Lakie: references?
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but not when copying...
17:48<TinoDidriksen>Strictly, whitespace is not in the allowed plain characters for a URI.
17:48<Lakie>I've done it many times, ln.
17:48<Lakie>Both with firefox, opera, ie etc
17:48<ln>Lakie: what the hell does that have to do with what is allowed?
17:48<Lakie>It is used quite a lot
17:48<Lakie>Obviously it is allowed otherwise it should be filtered?
17:49<Lakie>Or give a nice message saying isn't valid?
17:49-!-Celestar_ [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D8336.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
17:49-!-Celestar_ is now known as CelestarT42p
17:49<CelestarT42p>I think "repeater operation" in my WLAN AP means that you need to reconnect repeatedly
17:50<TinoDidriksen>How browsers act and what the RFC says is not always the same.
17:50<Prof_Frink>TinoDidriksen: Hey, they conform to the RFC when talking to the server
17:50<TinoDidriksen>Indeed
17:51<Prof_Frink>AFAIK there's no RFC on what the browser should tell the human it's up to.
17:51<TinoDidriksen>No, but it'd make most sense if the copy operation would place a valid URI in the buffer.
17:51-!-xyz [~sss@bas4-montreal02-1096722841.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd []
17:52<Prof_Frink>No, just a valid input.
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>ln: the section you quoted does not say that spaces are forbidden
17:53*CelestarT42p wonders what the most powerful train engine is (permanent output)
17:53<TinoDidriksen>Spaces are not in the allowed list, hence they have to be encoded.
17:54<+glx>IE converts them
17:54<CelestarT42p>konqueror does as well
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>but that was not an "allowed" list... only a "you can expect that these work unconditionally" list
17:55<ln>here's the whole thing, feel free to point out where spaces are allowed: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt
17:55<+glx>firefox just use a human readable url
17:56<Prof_Frink>*Bing bong* The train now leaving platform 3 is the topic.
17:56<Prof_Frink>Aren't we supposed to be on that?
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>no, the topic says offline...
17:57<ln>and dear people, please do remember the difference: even if browsers accept URLs with spaces either typed in or pasted, that does not mean such URLs are valid and should be used.
17:57<+glx>the browser converts it to a valid one internally
17:57<+glx>that's enough for me
17:58<ln>modern browsers also allow non-ASCII letters in the URL, yet that doesn't mean such URLs are valid without the percent-notation.
17:58<Prof_Frink>We never said they were valid URLs.
17:58<Prof_Frink>Merely valid browser inputs.
17:59<ln>no, you didn't, but pasting such to IRC is silly, because space is the default delimiter for an URL, as far as clicking an URL is concerned.
17:59<ln>-n
18:00<+glx>that's right, I needed to copy paste instead click
18:01<ln>situation would be different if URLs were always enclosed within <> or some other delimiter on IRC, then those could be used for detecting the end instead of spaces.
18:01-!-rortom [~rortom@p57B7F43B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
18:01<ln>though then some bonehead would use URLs with < > in them, because they are valid input for browsers. :)
18:02<+glx>we should use [url][/url] as delimiter ;)
18:02-!-Celestar142p [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D8336.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
18:02<Prof_Frink>or <a href=" " />
18:03<Brianetta>orudge: Those videos are being uploaded direct from my Creative Zen.
18:04<@orudge>ah, right
18:04<Brianetta>I think it stalled
18:04<@orudge>it's got to about 40MB on 2746
18:04<@orudge>and not moved
18:04<@orudge>oh, wait
18:04<@orudge>46MB
18:04<@orudge>that one's done
18:04<Brianetta>oh, there's the next one
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>"an URL" <- i, as a non-native speaker, would view that as correct, because i wouldn't pronounce "U" as "JU" here
18:05<@orudge>I'd pronounce that as "a you arr ell"
18:05-!-CelestarT42p [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D8336.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:05<Prof_Frink>"An Earl."
18:05<Brianetta>Cool, making the directory group sticky is making them readable
18:05<@orudge>Earl Grey!
18:05<@orudge>or Earls Sigurd and Thorfinn, of Orkney
18:05<Prof_Frink>Meh, I'd rather have Yorksher.
18:05<@orudge>of which a good many things are named
18:05<@orudge>after
18:05<@orudge>such as the ferries, MV Earl Sigurd and MV Earl Thorfinn.
18:05<Prof_Frink>Sigurd and dros?
18:06<@orudge>or the school sports teams in Sanday, Sigurd and Thorfinn.
18:06<@orudge>my brother and I were in Thorfinn
18:06<@orudge>Prof_Frink: quite
18:06<Brianetta>That's five
18:06<ln>00:59 < ln> -n <-- correction for my use of "an URL"
18:06-!-NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd
18:07<@orudge>my download is currently quite slow due to my upload being saturated with my own photos
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>ln: i did see that ;)
18:07<Brianetta>hmm, it says it's stopped sending, but the file on the web server's still catching up
18:09<@orudge>hmm, well, that's me with about 50MB, and you say the total is 500MB? 10% there, then...
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>i have that when stuff is still in the send buffer...
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>it says 100% uploaded, but the upload is not really finished
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>man... i hate it... each time a train arrives at the station, the trams start sprinkling red numbers across the town...
18:10-!-Celestar142p [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D8336.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:11<ln>would you prefer them to be pink?
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>i'd settle for green ;)
18:17<Roujin>wow... this guy really... takes the cake (says my favorite online dictionary. In german I'd have said that he "shoots the bird") http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=39054
18:17<Roujin>quote BLACK OPS (they do sneaky things)BALLISTIC MISSILES, INTERCONTINENTAL BALLISTIC MISSILES, SUBMARINES \quote
18:18<Roujin>note that he's talking about OpenTTD
18:18<Roujin>and I'm very very afraid from his last sentence: "Whoa that was a lot! I have a lot more for this idea coming in you next post!"
18:19<ln>i wouldn't mind seeing military bases that accept and produce passengers and cargo.
18:20<ln>but i certainly don't want INTERCONTINENTAL BALLISTIC MISSILES, SUBMARINES :)
18:20-!-alex [ircN@78-86-117-217.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit []
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18:22<Roujin>and don't forget you won't transport passengers, but need different wagons for light infantry, medium infantry, heavy infantry, bazooka infantry, black ops (they do sneaky things!) and paratroopers (they only go in your planes and sometimes decide to jump off halfway to the destination)
18:25<Roujin>no, seriously. I mean.. what is this guy thinking?
18:25<Roujin>is he thinking at all?
18:25<Zuu>he maybe misses CS or something :p
18:25<ln>world domination, apparently
18:26-!-CelestarT42p [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D8336.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
18:26<CelestarT42p>:/
18:26<CelestarT42p>Two of my neighbours apparently got new WLAN APs.
18:27<CelestarT42p>they also have NFI about what they're doing
18:27<CelestarT42p>because both of them chose the same channel for their AP as I have
18:27-!-nkx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:27<Zuu>NFI stands for? no fucking idea?
18:27<CelestarT42p>Zuu: yes
18:28<CelestarT42p>having 3 networks on the same channel is apparently not healthy for the connectivity
18:28<@Rubidium>Zuu: you should've said: "I've got no fucking idea where NFI stands for"
18:28<Zuu>Rubidium: hehe :)
18:28-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: Operator, give me an exit]
18:29<Brianetta>Celestar: Few people know about channels.
18:29<CelestarT42p>Brianetta: Few poeple know about <insert random technology>
18:30<Brianetta>Oh, lots of people know about cars
18:30<Brianetta>Lots of people know way more than me about scart leads
18:30<Brianetta>It's just that nobody knows anything about anything interesting
18:31<Zuu>Few people who went to my university program "Communiactions- and transport systems" realized that they had to study data-communications even through it was stated in the program descriptions...
18:31-!-dragonhorseboy [4a396fef@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd
18:31<dragonhorseboy>hey
18:31<Zuu>... and is half of the program name..
18:31<Vikthor>Brianetta: ehm, that heavily depends on what you find interesting
18:32<Brianetta>Vikthor: No; I hold the only opinion that matters to me on this topic.
18:33<Brianetta>If the topic was paint colours, my wife holds the opinions.
18:33<Brianetta>I took a CD's worth of video on the meet.
18:33<Brianetta>This is silly
18:33<Brianetta>Silly squared
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>and i don't find the place where the cargo payment calculation differentiates about whether the destination is reached or not...
18:34*CelestarT42p loves the fact that most WLAN APs/Routers that support 300MBPs on air still have 100BaseT ports :S
18:34<SpComb>do the ones with gbit switches have a gbit link between the switch and the cpu?
18:34<@orudge>heh, I was thinking about that the other day, Celestar
18:34<@orudge>whether 802.11n kit would actually have gigabit Ethernet
18:34<CelestarT42p>orudge: most don't
18:35<SpComb>and is the cpu capable of shifting 300mbps of full-duplex traffic between the wlan and the switch?
18:35<CelestarT42p>*VERY* helpful
18:35<Brianetta>SpComb: The bus probably isn't
18:35<CelestarT42p>orudge: I wonder what they expect the AP to *do* with the 300MBit it is getting
18:35*dragonhorseboy is still trying to figure out a damned router for my new place (like you'll thought there was "anything you need you can find it", go figure)
18:36<Brianetta>Not many workstations could saturate a 100baseT network.
18:36<SpComb>huh?
18:36<Brianetta>That's what still sets mainframes apart.
18:36<SpComb>a workstation can saturate a gbit link just fine
18:36<CelestarT42p>Brianetta: well. At work I can saturate a 1000BaseT
18:36<SpComb>normal x86 hardware can do a 10gbit link
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>CelestarT42p: it's not much different than having Gbit ethernet cards on the PCI bus...
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>where the PCI bus is slower than the network...
18:37<CelestarT42p>Eddi|zuHause: not *quite*, as the PCI bus has 1.08Gbits (gross)
18:37<SpComb>indeed, that's a bit of a silly thing
18:37<SpComb>esp. motherboards with dual gbit NICs... on PCI
18:37<CelestarT42p>and there are faster PCIs
18:37-!-Anon0100 [~Anon0100@host-70-45-129-103.onelinkpr.net] has joined #openttd
18:38<CelestarT42p>then again, I've seen people having RAID10 arrays on PCI-controller cards *cough*
18:38<CelestarT42p>"I need faster disks, it's still slow"
18:38<Brianetta>Some people son't want RAID's speed
18:38<SpComb>ho hum
18:38<SpComb>with a RAID10?
18:38<Brianetta>They just want bombproof storage
18:38-!-Anon0100 [~Anon0100@host-70-45-129-103.onelinkpr.net] has quit []
18:38<CelestarT42p>Brianetta: then you don't do RAID10
18:38-!-Anon2567 [~Anon2567@host-70-45-129-103.onelinkpr.net] has joined #openttd
18:40<Anon2567>hey post your opinion about my sugestionrion "war"
18:40<CelestarT42p>?
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>we are far beyond that topic already...
18:41<SpComb>Brianetta: RAID10 = RAID1 of two RAID0 arrays
18:42<SpComb>so both redundancy and performance for twice the price
18:43<ln>how many tiles away can artillery fire?
18:43<SpComb>but myes, better than running a multi-disk software RAID over a PCI bus
18:43<CelestarT42p>SpComb: softward RAID is better than its reputation imho
18:43<SpComb>ln: how far is the competitor's station?
18:43<SpComb>CelestarT42p: indeed, and I love it
18:44<CelestarT42p>SpComb: you know ZFS?
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>i have a RAID0/1 controller onboard, but i don't use it as such...
18:44<SpComb>but if you have a RAID1 then you still need to shift twice the amount of data from the CPU to the disks than with hardware raid
18:44<ln>Eddi|zuHause: not a real one, is it?
18:44<SpComb>CelestarT42p: in theory, but I just use ext3+lvm+md
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>ln: what do you mean with "real"?
18:45<ln>Eddi|zuHause: does it require drivers?
18:45<CelestarT42p>SpComb: I've tested it, it's awesome (especially on an Sun Fire X4500 :))
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>linux does load a "promise" module...
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>if that qualifies as a "driver"...
18:46<ln>as far as i understand, a real RAID controller does not require any driver to do its job.
18:46<Tekky>does OpenTTD store a vehicle's speed in mph or km/h internally?
18:46-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad9f86e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:46<@Rubidium>Tekky: neither
18:46<CelestarT42p>ln: a reail RAID controller does not require any driver for accessing the disk. It still requires drivers for accessing the array (building/repairing/monitoring)
18:47<CelestarT42p>Tekky: fathoms per fortnight or something :P
18:47<@Rubidium>wasn't it furlong per fortnight?
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>ln: after the boot/post screen, there is the raid screen, where i can enter the raid controller's setup
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>there i can add drives connected to the SATA (or the 3rd PATA) connectors, as single, raid0 or raid1 array
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>then comes the boot manager
18:48<CelestarT42p>Brianetta: I'm just reading through your desync report. the game did WHAT with the orders?
18:49<Tekky>Rubidium: thx
18:49<Brianetta>Celestar: Any orders pertaining to the waypoints vanished.
18:50<CelestarT42p>Rubidium: what do you make of that? buffer overflow somewhere?
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>ln: so does that qualify as a "real" controller?
18:50<CelestarT42p>Brianetta: pertaining to any waypoint or only a specific one?
18:51*Brianetta pauses
18:51<Brianetta>The one that caused the desync
18:51-!-Anon2567 [~Anon2567@host-70-45-129-103.onelinkpr.net] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
18:51<Brianetta>Which desync report are you reading?
18:51<ln>Eddi|zuHause: well, hmm, it depends on whether it requires the promise module or not. i've understood the integrated ones virtually always need help from the OS, but i'd be glad to be wrong.
18:51<CelestarT42p>the one in the Ottddev forum
18:51<Brianetta>Oh, that one didn't do anything to orders
18:52<Brianetta>I'd better read what I posted
18:52<@Rubidium>CelestarT42p: IF I knew what it was it would've been solved
18:52<Brianetta>Ah, yeah; that third post is about a different desync problem
18:53<Brianetta>There are two that we know of
18:53<Tekky>hehe, I just found an error in the OpenTTD wiki :-) Luckily, I can still browse the OpenTTD wiki in the Google cache :)
18:53<@Rubidium>but I fear it's some newgrf cache issue somewhere
18:54<@Rubidium>and I got no clue how to hunt for buffer overflows beyond what valgrind/efence/duma can detect
18:54<Tekky>unfortunately, I cannot correct the error in the OpenTTD wiki through the Google cache :(
18:54<@Rubidium>what's wrong?
18:54<CelestarT42p>Rubidium: valgrind is good, but on our local games we can only test so much. I wonder whether Brianetta should run his servers in efence ;)
18:54<CelestarT42p>Rubidium: there's a difference between us testing something and a "production" server
18:55<ln>Eddi|zuHause: also it's been said that if a driver is required, then (on Linux) one can equally well use Linux software RAID, because software is required anyhow. but dunno, i don't have much RAID experience on non-software RAIDs.
18:55<Brianetta>Celestar: I'm working on a reproducible desync.
18:55<CelestarT42p>ln: I have, but only with *real* controllers
18:55<Brianetta>It can be done, I'm certain.
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>ln: like i said, i don't use it as RAID
18:56<@Rubidium>CelestarT42p: I've never seen a real buffer overflow as cause of a desync
18:56<CelestarT42p>(i.e. PCIe or PCI-X stuff)
18:56<@Rubidium>it's always way more subtle/hidden
18:56<CelestarT42p>Rubidium: maybe this is first? ;-)
18:56<CelestarT42p>Rubidium: but what would cause a renaming of a waypoint?
18:56<CelestarT42p>Rubidium: and the removal of said waypoint from the order list
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>RAID0 is silly and for RAID1 i rather need the space
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18:57<rortom>http://nightly.openttd.org is down?
18:57<rortom>that broke my auto update script :\
18:57<Sacro>rortom: _
18:57<Sacro>err
18:57<Sacro>http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/
18:57<@Rubidium>CelestarT42p: best explanation is that a waypoint got build, but failed to do so on (some) clients
18:57<Brianetta>rortom: Mine worked
18:57<@Rubidium>which might, again, be due to some newgrf issue
18:58<CelestarT42p>newgrfs==canoworms
18:58<@Rubidium>it seriously is
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>we should abolish newgrf support :p
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18:58<rortom>@ sacro: try to put "nightly.openttd.org" into that thing you gave me ...
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18:59<Sacro>rortom: yes, it doesn't reckon there's a site there
18:59<@Rubidium>nightly.openttd.org isn't down
18:59<@Rubidium>it's just that apache running on that server is down
18:59<Brianetta>http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/wiki.openttd.org
18:59<Brianetta>weird reply
19:00<CelestarT42p>ok I'm heading to bed
19:00<rortom>mh openttd.org is up, wiki down and nightly as well
19:00<@orudge>well
19:00<@orudge>wiki, etc, are hosted in Hungary
19:01<@orudge>our shiny new server has been ordered, though :)
19:01<rortom>:)
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>"a hungry ate our server"
19:01-!-CelestarT42p [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D8336.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:01*orudge imagines a grue eating the server
19:01<@Rubidium>if only librarians would be working on sundays
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19:02<SpComb>hungary :o
19:02<@orudge>yes
19:02<@orudge>in a university.
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>they probably used it for playing quake or something :p
19:02<@Rubidium>but the library the server belongs to is closed
19:02<SpComb>or it's hosted on an Xbox and the boss took it home to his kids
19:03<rortom>lol :p
19:03<@Rubidium>but then the whole server would be down, not only apache
19:03<@Rubidium>as the nightly compile went just fine
19:04<@Rubidium>just nobody can access the binaries it made
19:04<SpComb>a bit of ssh?
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19:06<@Rubidium>yes, nightlies are initiated over ssh
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19:12<SpComb>as in, log in over ssh and fix apache
19:13<@Rubidium>if I would have access it would've been done ages ago
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 18 00:00:11 2008