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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-08-18

---Logopened Mon Aug 18 00:00:11 2008
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02:41<AmixE90>Morning
02:44-!-Tim [83dc24f1@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd
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03:13-!-pm|away is now known as planetmaker
03:15<planetmaker>g'day all
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03:15-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd
03:15-!-mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ
03:15<@Celestar>heyo
03:15<AmixE90>Hello
03:16<AmixE90>Good morning
03:19<Forked>hi ho
03:21<@Celestar>hm
03:21<@Celestar>cardodest is DIFFICULT
03:22<planetmaker>heya Celestar :)
03:23<@Celestar>hey planetmaker
03:23<planetmaker>how is it going?
03:25<AmixE90>OpenTTD is scary. Sometimes you see those tracks in dreams ;p
03:27<planetmaker>maybe you should consider starting the anonymous openttds ;)
03:27<Forked>well irc is in itself pretty anonymous .. and we are in the channel #openttd
03:28<AmixE90>Ohh....
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03:33<@peter1138>Celestar, difficult?
03:35<@Celestar>peter1138: to get rid of all the pax :)
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03:42<@Celestar>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=93941
03:42<@Celestar>wtf
03:43<Noldo_>what is it?
03:43-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd
03:43<Forked>I can guess what thread that came from :)
03:44<@Celestar>Noldo_: an IC made in OF
03:46<@Celestar>ottd*
03:46<@peter1138>Errr
03:49<@Celestar>sorry I'm just working with OF here :P
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03:59<@Celestar>Rubidium: got a minute?
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04:18<Tim>Good luck for Cargodestinations, i can't await it :)
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04:20<@Celestar>Tim: it's going pretty well already
04:22<@Celestar>Tim: try it if you wish
04:23<@peter1138>Pom te pom
04:23-!-taur [~chatzilla@88-117-116-247.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
04:23<Tim>That'd be cool, where to get it?
04:25<taur>Morning :-)
04:25<taur>So, there are plenty of aircrafts in OpenTTD - but the models aren't very different from each other, are they?
04:25<taur>I'm wondering, wich ones are the "best choice"?
04:25<@Celestar>Tim: what platform are you on?
04:25<Kloopy_>Platform 9 and 3/4.
04:25<Kloopy_>(lol)
04:26<Kloopy_>..sorry.
04:26<Kloopy_>:(
04:26*Celestar laughs
04:26<Tim>Win32
04:26<@Rubidium>Celestar: I reckon I have
04:27<@Celestar>Tim: get some hg/mercurial client and download it (=
04:27<@Celestar>Tim: you'll hav eto compile it yourself however
04:27<@Celestar>Rubidium: you wanna do a code review at some point?
04:27<Tim>I might try :)
04:27<Tim>Any guess when we can expect it in trunk? ;)
04:28<Tim>Besides "When it's done" :P
04:28<@peter1138>taur, the best ones are the ones with the best specs... no?
04:29<@Rubidium>fine by me, though I first want to get rid of a desync
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04:30<Kloopy_>Cardodests is mature enough for a code review?
04:30<Kloopy_>that's exciting.
04:31-!-Kloopy_ is now known as Kloopy
04:31<Tim>When did you start working on it?
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04:32<@Rubidium>why would something be mature for a(n initial) code review?
04:32<@Celestar>Tim: three weeks ago about, maybe four
04:33<Kloopy>Because there's no point reviewing it when it's far from complete... the code is highly likely to change and then Rubidium gets upset that Celestar is wasting time by forcing Rubidium to do more than one code review. :P
04:33<Kloopy>..or something.
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04:34<@Rubidium>so you have to wait till something is completely finished to be code reviewed and then determine there's a design error which means a complete rewrite?
04:35<taur>peter1138: Obviously ... but how should I define the "best specs" ... e.g. the Darwin300 seems to heave the highest capacity (at least in 1982) but also high costs and it's not the fastest :-/
04:35<taur>It's just, there are so many aircraft models, I find it difficult to decide which one to use ... on the other hand, the various ship models are quite easy to overlook :-)
04:35<taur>And for road vehicles it's clear to me: The faster, the better!
04:35<Kloopy>No, I'm not suggesting that... I'm suggest that fundemental design problems are sorted at the design stages.:)
04:35<@Celestar>Rubidium: it'd be awesome if you could have a look at it. Besides src/routing.* We've added quite some members to the Order class and mangled the station view window. Intrusion in other parts of the code is virtually non-existant (=
04:36-!-Deathmaker [~death@a89-182-150-138.net-htp.de] has joined #openttd
04:36<@peter1138>We need to merge the savegame changes.
04:36<@Celestar>peter1138: yes, but I think we should do this once and only once
04:36<Kloopy>taur, I normally use the Darwin300 and the "concorde", whatever it's called.
04:37<Kloopy>One for capacity and one for speed.
04:37<@Celestar>I usually use the Aviator's set for planes (=
04:37<@Rubidium>Celestar: why is galadriel in denial hg of service?
04:38<@peter1138>It's on http://84.246.152.229:8000/ too
04:38<@Celestar>Rubidium: because the hardware crapped (it's my workstation). use arwen.fvfischer.de:8000 instead
04:38<@Celestar>Rubidium: or peter's server
04:40<taur>Kloopy: Ah, I see, capacity matters for the crowded airports and speed for the long distances ... okay, that's a strategy, I may try :-)
04:40<taur>So basically I decide for two (or so) aircrafts and forget about the other models...
04:40<Kloopy>That's what I do.
04:40<Kloopy>And I usually make tonnes of cash :D
04:40<@Rubidium>use ships ;)
04:40<@Celestar>Kloopy: cargodest is not far from completion unless we're hitting a largish desync problem, which we might (=
04:41<@Rubidium>they have the best capacity per tile used and the highest throughput per station tile
04:41<@Celestar>gotta grab some food
04:41<@Celestar>Rubidium: only because you can have an infinite number of them on a tile :P
04:41<@Rubidium>Celestar: that's a lie
04:42<@Celestar>Rubidium: :P
04:42<taur>Rubidium: Really? I'm using ships only for oil rigs and sometimes for people transport between cities directly on the water :-)
04:42<Kloopy>lol
04:42<@Celestar>Rubidium: a *very high* number (=
04:42<@Celestar>better?
04:42<@peter1138>65535 ships!
04:42<@peter1138>All with YAPF :o
04:42<Kloopy>Celestar: That's good news. Well done :D
04:43<@Celestar>Kloopy: test it. I need testers
04:43<@Celestar>back in 5
04:48<@Rubidium>stupid boost :(
04:48<planetmaker>Celestar: we could set up a new cargodest game on the dev server
04:49<@Rubidium>why doesn't boost make changelogs?
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04:54<Kloopy>Is boost part of the repository yet?
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04:59<taur>Thank you for the advice on the aircrafts, cu :-)
04:59-!-taur [~chatzilla@88-117-116-247.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: -]
04:59*peter1138 compiles a cargo-dest server too.
05:04<@Celestar>back
05:06<@Celestar>peter1138: I still don't like Debug() :(
05:06<@Celestar>peter1138: btw I have found a possible desync reason this weekend and fixed it
05:07<@peter1138>Is it on arwen?
05:07<@Celestar>er .. or not .. wait...
05:07<@Celestar>peter1138: not yet, need testing.
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05:08<@Celestar>hm .. we still have quite some loose ends to tie up, haven't we?
05:08<@Celestar>peter1138: one fix is on arwen. Cache was not invalidated when a vertex was removed
05:09<@Celestar>the other is just a theory about the edges not being in the same order on all clients. not sure it makes any difference
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05:32*peter1138 ponders running his server as a coop game.
05:34<@Celestar>heh
05:37<Eddi|zuHause>shared infrastructure!
05:37<@Celestar>peter1138: I'm doing some critical commits at the moment, maybe you want to wait a few minutes longer
05:39<@Celestar>peter1138: done and pushed
05:39<dih>hello ladies ;-)
05:40<Brianetta>Shared infrastructure (:
05:40<Brianetta>I want to run trains on your lines
05:40<Forked>I want to stop trains on your lines! muahahahahiaoiha
05:40<Forked>:\
05:40<Brianetta>stop at your stations
05:40-!-Noldo_ is now known as Noldo
05:40<Forked>all your passengers are belong to me
05:41<Brianetta>Forked: Trains would be under control of the line's owner
05:41<Forked>:)
05:41<Brianetta>I would steal all your trains if they dared to trespass (:
05:41<Brianetta>Click... send to depot
05:42<Forked>I'm not paying :(
05:42<Brianetta>You can pay the ransom or sell the train
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>mainly i want to build my tram station next to a competitor's train station
05:42<Brianetta>The ransom's less than the train's worth
05:42<@Celestar>heh .. did anyone actually test shared infrastructure in a network game?
05:42<@Celestar>:P
05:42<@Celestar>for desync-safety
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: i think the WWOTTDGD people did
05:42<Brianetta>Celestar: Never played it. Never played subsids either.
05:43<@Celestar>Brianetta: shared infrastructure would be (imho) awesome with cargodest
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>but that is as far as my knowledge about that patch goes :p
05:43<Ammler>Celestar: that was stable
05:43<Brianetta>Celestar: Probbaly. I like the idea of franchising routes on your network to other operators.
05:44<@Celestar>peter1138: I think we need to change the payment philosophy with cargodest. Pay each vehicle fully for its part of the route, otherwise most vehicle make losses
05:44<Ammler>we had only desyncs because of autoreplace
05:44<@Celestar>Ammler: WHAT? autoreplace desyncs? :P
05:44<Ammler>:P
05:44<Brianetta>wwottdgd
05:44<Brianetta>what would openttd's god do?
05:44<Brianetta>let's ask him
05:44*Brianetta prays to Darkvater
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. almost :p
05:45<Vikthor>Brianetta: I thought only KuDr is officially listed as god in readme ;)
05:46<@Celestar>when cargodest is in trunk, will my "inactive" status be lifted? (=
05:46<@peter1138>Oh
05:46<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i've got a YAPP problem... when you build a signal in a train's path, it shortens it reservation to that signal, but when you then turn around that signal, it does not re-extend its path
05:47<@Celestar>peter1138: why is the YAPP author not in the credits?
05:47<@Celestar>(=
05:47<@peter1138>Celestar, I noticed that "transfer credits" are always zero.
05:47<@peter1138>So payments are not correct.
05:48<Brianetta>Vikthor: It's a matter of faith.
05:48<Brianetta>And forgetfulness.
05:48<@Celestar>peter1138: checking it
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05:49<@Celestar>peter1138: the overall payment is correct afaik
05:49<@peter1138>Possibly.
05:50-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd
05:51<@Celestar>peter1138: also the texteffects show the numbers correctly
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05:55<@Celestar>peter1138: nfi why this doesn't work
06:01<Brianetta>Eddi: Signals didn't shorten the reservation in earlier YAPPs
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06:01<Brianetta>The signal was just green, with a reservation right through it
06:01<Brianetta>I preferred that
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06:02<@Celestar>Brianetta: yeah, but that cause problems afaik
06:02<@Celestar>caused*
06:03<@Celestar>peter1138: maybe the cargolist cache does it wrong or something
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: yeah, i think that was better... except when placing a one-way signal in the wrong direction...
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06:28<@Celestar>peter1138: I don't see the reason why the transfer credits are zero
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06:30<@Rubidium>Celestar: any idea how to get the diff of trunk to cargop?
06:31<@Celestar>Rubidium: 1) let me merge first, 2) ask the peops of ottdcoop, they did it (=
06:31<planetmaker>I think Yexo knows.
06:31<planetmaker>or Ammler. Dunno
06:32<Ammler>we just diffed the hg repo to the last merged svn rev
06:33<@Rubidium>that's not what I'm after
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06:34<@Celestar>Rubidium: can't hg diff compare two urls?
06:35<@Rubidium>oh, it's dead easy to get a diff ;)
06:35<@Celestar>how? (=
06:36<Yorick>hg help diff?
06:36<@Rubidium>hg diff -r <last rev of trunk in hg>
06:37<@Rubidium>hmm, cargop is already twice the size of YAPP
06:38<@peter1138>hg diff -r never worked for me.
06:39-!-_MsG_ [~klaas@ip175-172-59-62.adsl.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
06:39<_MsG_>hello
06:39<@Celestar>Rubidium: yeah, with mostly comments in routing.h :P
06:39<@peter1138>Seems to though :o
06:39<_MsG_>the svn translate folder isn't there
06:39<_MsG_>I want to translate :)
06:39<Brianetta>Rubidium: Is it bigger than YAPF+YAPP?
06:40<@Rubidium>Brianetta: what have YAPF+YAPP to do with eachother?
06:40<Brianetta>I seem to remember that YAPF was written inorder to make a decent PBS possible.
06:40<Brianetta>Well, that's what Kudr was saying at the time
06:40<@Rubidium>well... YAPP works for NPF and OTP too
06:40<@peter1138>176KB...
06:40<Yorick>otp?
06:40<@peter1138>YAPP was over 200...
06:41<@Rubidium>IIRC it was 100-ish, but then I can be wrong
06:41<Brianetta>Rubidium: YAPP doesn't work for NPF and OTP. Even if you choose those pathfinders, PBS signals use YAPF.
06:41<Yorick>what's OTP?
06:41<Brianetta>The original path finder
06:41<@peter1138>Old train pathfinder.
06:42<Brianetta>or old
06:42<Brianetta>it certainly wasn't the one from TTD (:
06:42<Yorick>there is no old train pathfinder
06:42<Yorick>it got replaced by NTP
06:42<Noldo>Yorick: replaced? there is a patch option
06:42<Yorick>Noldo: I made the patch that added that option
06:43<Yorick>the train options are NTP, NPF and YAPF
06:43<@Rubidium>Brianetta: sorry, but TryReserveSafeTrack doesn't always use YAPF
06:43<@Rubidium>and yes, large parts use the trackfollower of YAPF, but that doesn't mean it uses YAPF
06:43<@Celestar>what are we just discussing?
06:43<@peter1138>Who knows :)
06:44<@peter1138>Is there a case for removing NPF yet?
06:44<Yorick>^^
06:44<@Celestar>^^
06:44<@Rubidium>peter1138: no
06:44<@Rubidium>it works better in some cases that YAPF
06:44<Yorick>is there a case for removing NTP yet?
06:44<Yorick>NPF is used by the nintendo ds port
06:44<@peter1138>Only for annoying DaleStan :D
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06:47<XeryusTC>hmm, cargo dests crashes when a train tries to load cargo here
06:47<XeryusTC>using h:7aa904
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06:47<@Celestar>XeryusTC: ?
06:47<@peter1138>Damn, still can't get to wiki.openttd.org
06:48<@Rubidium>peter1138: how good's your hungarian?
06:48<@peter1138>And the worst bit is, I actually wanted to get to the company internal wiki...
06:48<@Celestar>XeryusTC: give me a savegame?
06:48<XeryusTC>i only have destinations for passengers enabled, but it crashes when i try to load other cargoes (haven't tried passengers yet)
06:48<XeryusTC>Celestar: sure
06:50<XeryusTC>http://www.openttdcoop.org/blog/files/XeryusTC/Grenwich%20Transport,%2027th%20Mar%201935.sav
06:52<@Celestar>:S why are we renaming "prev" to "previous" ?
06:53<Noldo>where?
06:54<XeryusTC>Celestar: btw, my debug says it crashes at economy.cpp:1645
06:55-!-stillunk1own [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
06:56<@Celestar>XeryusTC: I'll check in a few minutes
06:56<@Celestar>XeryusTC: merge from trunk is giving me headahces
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06:57<@peter1138>Shouldn't be much to merge, surely?
06:57<@Celestar>quite a bit
06:58<@peter1138>Only 3 revisions.
06:59<@peter1138>Ah, quite a bit related to shared orders :o
06:59<@Celestar>yeah
07:00<@Rubidium>should all be trivial to solve
07:01<@Rubidium>and I renamed it to be consistent with the vehicle chain variables
07:01<@Celestar>Rubidium: I've noticed
07:01<Yorick>are there any nightly hosts?
07:01<XeryusTC>Celestar: the crash seems to happen because the cargo has no destination
07:02<XeryusTC>as i have that patch option enabled now, and it doesn't crash anymore
07:03<_MsG_>where is the lang folder where they talk about
07:03<_MsG_>I want to translate in proper dutch
07:03<Yorick>MsG: already done
07:03<@Celestar>_MsG_: you use the webtranslator for that
07:03<Yorick>svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk/src/lang
07:03<_MsG_>of course but I need a eng langfile
07:03<_MsG_>ok
07:04<Yorick>and dutch is already translated
07:04<_MsG_>yeah but not really "dutch"
07:04<Yorick>yes it is
07:04<_MsG_>I annoy me about the tons of mistakes
07:04<@peter1138>You annoy you?
07:04<Yorick>and dont underestimate the size of the files
07:04<_MsG_>Like (example) Steen Fabriek
07:05<XeryusTC>_MsG_: you need to keep the length of the string in mind
07:05<_MsG_>... in Holland almost everything is written without a space
07:05<Yorick>peter1138: heh, common dutch saying
07:05<Yorick>_MsG_: Steen Fabriek is not in the language file
07:05<_MsG_>I said example
07:05<Yorick>I think it is in the grf file that defines a brickfactory
07:05<_MsG_>Ok I will find one now :P
07:05<_MsG_>yorick are u dutch?
07:05<Yorick>I am
07:06<_MsG_>from GoT?
07:06<@Celestar>_MsG_: langs are not translated by diffing the text file mostly
07:06<Yorick>MsG: nope, fok :P
07:06<@Celestar>er XeryusTC ?
07:06<XeryusTC>yes?
07:06<_MsG_>So I am not allowed to correct dutch mistakes?
07:06<@Celestar>XeryusTC: I can't load that savegame?
07:07<_MsG_>but instead i am supposed to completely make my own translation?
07:07<@Celestar>_MsG_: er no, if you want help translating, you should become a translator
07:07<@Celestar>who's maintainer the translation system ?
07:07<_MsG_>Yeah that's what I want :P
07:07<@Celestar>maitaining*
07:07<Yorick>MihamiX
07:07<@Celestar>@seen Mihamix
07:07<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Mihamix was last seen in #openttd 30 weeks, 6 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <MiHaMiX> s/t$/d/
07:07<@Celestar>uh-oh
07:07<_MsG_>I want to make the dutch language more less "tenenkrommend" :p
07:07<Yorick>he usually idles
07:08<ln>_MsG_: in reality, though, you cannot become a translator.
07:08<XeryusTC>Celestar: hmm, maybe it is because i have a somewhat outdated version of the repository
07:08<_MsG_>why not?
07:08<XeryusTC>but i can't update it seems :o
07:08<@Celestar>XeryusTC: galadriel is dead
07:08<_MsG_>I can't just edit the file?
07:08<Yorick>MsG: you can
07:08<XeryusTC>i noticed indeed ;)
07:08<Yorick>but it won't get in trunk
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07:08<@Celestar>XeryusTC: arwen.fvfischer.de:8000
07:08<ln>_MsG_: if there are already enough translators for a certain language, MiHaMiX will not accept more. there's nothing you can do about that.
07:09<_MsG_>but is the translation of dtuch still active?
07:09<@Celestar>_MsG_: it would be difficult if 50+ all sent their own diffs, hence the webtranslator
07:09<Yorick>it is
07:09<_MsG_>And is it a capable guy? because I see many mistakes
07:09<Yorick>they are multiple
07:09<XeryusTC>Celestar: hmm, does hg have something like svn switch then?
07:09*XeryusTC doesnt know squat about hg :P
07:09<_MsG_>they need to check the incorrect spacing
07:09<ln>_MsG_: you cannot critisize the quality, because MiHaMiX does not know dutch and cannot confirm your claims.
07:09<Yorick>hmm, webtranslator2 is also down
07:09<@Celestar>XeryusTC: yes, just do "hg pull" from another source
07:10<Ammler>I would also like to participate with translation, but I found no help for starting...
07:10<_MsG_>so basically it isnt as easy as they handle it @ the XBMC team, with translation?
07:10<Ammler>(de_CH) :-)
07:10<@peter1138>And who are the XBMC team?
07:10<@Celestar>Yorick: everything that is hosted in hungary is down
07:10<Yorick>Ammler: just add the language file
07:10<@Celestar>the question is: do we have backups?
07:10<Ammler>Yorick: I have one local :-)
07:10<_MsG_>I will translate it for myself then with proper dutch :P
07:10<Yorick>Celestar: including webtranslator, nightly and wiki?
07:10<Ammler>I patch the de-fiel
07:10<rortom>hi
07:11<rortom>hungary server dead? D:
07:11<Yorick>it is
07:11<@Celestar>Yorick: yeah
07:11<@Rubidium>how often do I have to say the server isn't dead, but just apache running on that server
07:11<rortom>ah :)
07:11<rortom>thanks :)
07:11<Yorick>apache is known as a server
07:11<Forked>daemon
07:11<rortom>^
07:11<Ammler>peanut
07:11<rortom>:p
07:12<ln>the biggest problems of OTTD translations: 1) the use of a proprietary .txt/strgen system, 2) MiHaMiX, 3) WebTranslator
07:12<Ammler>and it should go out of trunk...
07:12<Ammler>handled like grfs.
07:12<_MsG_>:) I don't really care about the second, if it isn't allowed, ok then I will be the only one enjoying a proper dutch translation :)
07:13<@Rubidium>Ammler: why do you want it handled like grfs?
07:13<XeryusTC>translations are gay anyway, i prefer to keep playing in english
07:13<Yorick>that's why he wnats to change
07:13<Ammler>to speed up compiling and distributing of bundles
07:13<Ammler>the bundle would be 30% smaller
07:13<_MsG_>With that attitude you don't expand OTTD to a wider area
07:13<@peter1138>Compiling languages takes about half a second.
07:13<_MsG_>Or do you expect a random 8 year old guy to fully understand english
07:14<@Rubidium>Ammler: and the management of the langauges takes 500% more
07:14<Yorick>MsG: I did when I had that age...
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: you practically need a new grfpack for each version...
07:14<XeryusTC>if you can read you can understand ottd
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>that'd be silly
07:14<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: :-)
07:14<Yorick>and random 8 year old guys that don't fully understand english are not encouraged to go playing openttd
07:14<XeryusTC>except from all the numbers in the buy windows maybe :P
07:14<Ammler>well, we would have a language repo
07:15<_MsG_>lol why translate it to other languages then
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>we do have a language repo...
07:15<Yorick>MsG: for the chinese
07:15<_MsG_>Talking about Conservative Open Source
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07:15<Ammler>teh russians distributed their pack that way.
07:15<_MsG_>lol the translater is down
07:15<@peter1138>More like talking by people not actually involved in the project.
07:16<@peter1138>Translations are good. We prefer them via WT2 because of its features.
07:16<_MsG_>I want to participate with translating but not allowed, while the dutch language in the game is not really of a good quality
07:16<XeryusTC>Ammler: that's because the russians made it use different characters, which wasn't possible with an older OTTD (before ft)
07:16<Yorick>peter1138: the dutch translation is generally concidered low quality
07:17<@peter1138>Nobody said you are not allowed.
07:17<Ammler>XeryusTC: I meant the patchpack...
07:17<@peter1138>Yorick, and you're dutch.
07:17<XeryusTC>:o
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07:17<Yorick>am I? yes, I am :)
07:17<_MsG_>Above you guys said that some guy doesn't want any more translaters
07:17<@peter1138>_MsG_: *may* not.
07:17<@peter1138>Not definite.
07:17<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: do you know the german translater?
07:18<_MsG_>but why is everything depending on one guy?
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>who is that nowadays? i have not seen anyone active lately...
07:18<_MsG_>then you kill the whole open source idea imo
07:18<Ammler>or a general question, is it possible to see somewhere, who does make the translation?
07:18<@peter1138>That's a separate issue.
07:18<Ammler>_MsG_: you could speak to the dutch translator...
07:19<_MsG_>but with this kind of bureaucracy you don't get many happy guys wanting to help :)
07:19<_MsG_>Where can I find the guy
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>afaik there are up to 3 translators per language
07:19<@Rubidium>_MsG_: so you want ANYONE to change ANY translation at ANY time without ANY controlling or ANY language?
07:19<@peter1138>But inactive translators can be... pruned.
07:19<@Rubidium>then you will get massive amounts of spam and such
07:20<Yorick>MsG: he's currently not available, that's why the hungary servers can't be restarted...
07:20<_MsG_>But nowadays you just give some guys rights to make translation (how do you know they are good in spellings and stuff?) and rely on them
07:20<_MsG_>the XBMC has the system of anybody to translate
07:20<_MsG_>and it works very good
07:20<_MsG_>if you see a typo
07:20<_MsG_>edit the file
07:20<_MsG_>fix it
07:20<_MsG_>add it as a patch @ SF
07:20<_MsG_>the users are the controlling guys
07:20<@peter1138>And you can do that.
07:21<_MsG_>I do translation @ XBMC yes
07:21<_MsG_>and they need to be checked before adding to every version of course
07:21<@Rubidium>_MsG_: WT2 was meant to support everybody to post suggestions for translations
07:21<@Rubidium>but as usual with open source development, there was not enough time to implement it
07:21<_MsG_>people aren't about to kill a translation with stupid translation :)
07:22<_MsG_>If people really put time in translating things, why would they harm a translation?
07:22<@peter1138>Oh, is WT2 open source now?
07:22<@peter1138>*grumble*
07:22<_MsG_>Im no 13 year old punk
07:22<@Rubidium>_MsG_: you don't want to know how many people are trashing the wiki and the forum
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>... say all 13 year old punks...
07:23<_MsG_>ok :) sorry I wasn't aware of that
07:23<@Rubidium>or trashing openttd servers by crashing other people's vehicles and such
07:23<rortom>_MsG_: ottd is quite a big project, things are moving smooth and slowly ;)
07:23<_MsG_>maybe they harm the website because they await proper translation :P
07:23<@peter1138>I am quite surprised there are a ton of dutch people playing who've never complained.
07:23<_MsG_>:P but XBMC is also very big but it isn't that slowly :P
07:23<Yorick>most of them can't find this channel
07:24<_MsG_>I don't say I can't understand what they mean, but seriously, if you would check it by a teacher in the dutch language you would get an F
07:24<_MsG_>and hence the fact that many dutcheans :P can read and write proper english
07:24<Yorick>usual response when I post a screenshot is "you
07:24<Yorick>are using the dutch translation :')"
07:24<@peter1138>Posting a screenshot in dutch is nothing at all like saying "this translation is wrong".
07:25<@Rubidium>30 active developers vs 10 active developers <- now who has more "time"?
07:25<_MsG_>isn't there a offline tool for it? the translate website is gone
07:25<Yorick>MsG: you could try notepad with svn diff...
07:25<Yorick>but not much chance
07:25<_MsG_>yeah but the txt file is very bloated, not even lined out properly :P
07:26<_MsG_>:P wait
07:26<@peter1138>Bloated? It's all the text...
07:26<_MsG_>I tried wordpad
07:26<_MsG_>:P and it lines out
07:26<_MsG_>w00t
07:27<@peter1138>As long as word wrapping is off, there shouldn't be a problem with any text editor.
07:27<@peter1138>Except maybe notepad's 64KB limit...
07:27<XeryusTC>Celestar: it seems ottd still crashes when a vehicle loads cargo that doesn't have a destination
07:28<_MsG_>wordpad beats notepad
07:28<_MsG_>so I use the first one
07:28<_MsG_>it lines out properly
07:29<Yorick>peter1138: and the linebreak format
07:29<@Rubidium>and yes, we know having one "administrator" for the translations isn't the best solution, however we are working on changing that, but again it takes time to get everything done properly
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07:29<@peter1138>Then it's not been checked out of svn in the right format.
07:29<_MsG_>What type of file is it needed to be?
07:30<@peter1138>... text ...
07:30<_MsG_>because I encounter things like "Industrieën" instead of "Industrieën"
07:30<_MsG_>:p doh
07:30<@Rubidium>UTF-8
07:30<_MsG_>ok
07:32<_MsG_>why don't you host OTTD @ SF?
07:32<@Rubidium>because SF sucks in many many ways
07:33<_MsG_>enlighten me
07:33<@Rubidium>uploading nightlies and such: can't be automated
07:33<@Rubidium>uploading releases: can't be automated
07:34<_MsG_>ok
07:34<@Rubidium>doesn't allow running custom services
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07:34<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i am amazed how many different people made invisible engines already :p
07:35<@Rubidium>_MsG_: why doesn't XBMC use SF for their website?
07:36-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd
07:36<_MsG_>they use the sourceforge system
07:36<@Rubidium>not for their website
07:36<@Rubidium>nor for their forum
07:36<@Rubidium>only for their release files (as we do)
07:36<Ammler>most project I know, use sf only that way...
07:37<_MsG_>I didn't knew you use sf alreayd
07:37<@Rubidium>and for their svn and maybe the patch tracker
07:37<_MsG_>I don't know any project which is professional that uses the stock sf website :)
07:37<@Rubidium>but those are horribly slow
07:37<Ammler>does sf support hg?
07:37<Brianetta>I was disappointed that my diesel shunter couldn't tow an EMU set over a non-electric line in UKRS.
07:37<@Rubidium>Ammler: ofcourse not
07:37<_MsG_>hg?
07:37<Brianetta>It said they weren't compatible.
07:37<Ammler>mercurial
07:38<@Rubidium>and they don't have a svn -> hg/git bridge
07:38<_MsG_>they switched patching system
07:38<_MsG_>they used sf, but now they switched
07:38<@Rubidium>so that shows that there're more people thinking that SF sucks
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07:39<Ammler>what about code.google.com?
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07:39<rortom>i really like coge.google.com :)
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: you'll have to talk with pikka about that
07:39<Celestar>did anyone say aything? :P
07:40<rortom>http://code.google.com/p/openttd-python/
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07:40<rortom>http://code.google.com/hosting/search?q=openttd&projectsearch=Search+Projects
07:40<Ammler>rortom: does it support scp and such?
07:40<@peter1138>Celestar, nothing interesting.
07:40<rortom>Ammler: no, just basic svn
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>he just wanted to show off that he can login to Celestar again :p
07:40<Ammler>so you would need to upload releases over commits :-)
07:40<rortom>its very slim compared to SF
07:41<_MsG_>Do I need to fix things like "industrieën" or will it be converted in-game? Because it need to show "Industrieën"
07:41<@peter1138>No, you need to use a UTF-8 capable editr.
07:41<@peter1138>+o
07:41<_MsG_>I use atm
07:41<_MsG_>but is UTF-8 capable of ë è é and stuff?
07:42<@peter1138>Automated teller machine?
07:42<@Rubidium>the file is UTF-8 and the file is correct
07:42<@Rubidium>not being able to load the file correctly is solely a problem of your editor or the configuration of your editor
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07:43<Celestar>STR_NEWS_INDUSTRY_OPEN :{YELLOW}Openen van industriën <= it looks fine to me
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07:43<Celestar>:D
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07:43<_MsG_>notepad shows ë wordpad doesn't
07:43<_MsG_>:P
07:44<@Rubidium>then wordpad "thinks" to be smart and uses the wrong encoding
07:44<ln>_MsG_: UTF-8 is *in-fucking-deed* capable of "ë è é and stuff", as well as thousands of other characters.
07:45<Celestar>_MsG_: use a *proper* editor
07:45<_MsG_>I think it is made by design that Wordpad doesn't show
07:45<Celestar>neither notepad nor wordpad is that
07:45<_MsG_>I use dude
07:45<rortom>try notepad++
07:45<Celestar>vim
07:45<rortom>;)
07:45<_MsG_>I don't code so I am happy with the stock M$ stuff
07:45<@Rubidium>ed
07:45<_MsG_>and yes I use Windows, how's that
07:46<rortom>wordpad fails for unicode i think?
07:46<Celestar>gnah
07:46<Yorick>notepad++ :)
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07:46*Rubidium reckons wordpad only supports utf-16
07:46<@Rubidium>but only in little endian
07:47<_MsG_>brb
07:47<Celestar>bah
07:47<Celestar>I fucked up the loading of previous savegames with the recent merge
07:47<@Rubidium>Celestar: that's expected
07:47<@peter1138>As long as trunk games load...
07:48<Celestar>that sucks for debugging
07:49<@Rubidium>you can mess about with it so it temporary loads your savegame, save in the new format and commit a version that loads trunk
07:49<Celestar>yeahz
07:49<Celestar>but I don't see where in the merge the saveload revision was changed
07:49<@Rubidium>it wasn't
07:49<@Rubidium>I COND_NULL-ed a variable to be removed from the savegame at the next bump
07:49<Celestar>Rubidium: which one?
07:50<@Rubidium>the variable formerly known as prev_shared
07:50<@peter1138>prev_shared
07:50<Celestar>wasn't it NOSAVE anywaY?
07:50<@Rubidium>Celestar: no
07:50<Celestar>is it now?
07:50<@Rubidium>yes, now it is
07:51<@Rubidium>it wasn't necessary to be saved before either
07:51<Celestar>naturally
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07:52<Celestar>Rubidium: it is of no relevance at what saveload revision the "branch" is right. after merge it will always be current_revision++ in trunk, right?
07:52<@Rubidium>yup
07:52<@peter1138>Yes.
07:53<Celestar>so I'll just dump the branch
07:53<Celestar>bump*
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07:53<XeryusTC>Celestar: it seems that updating didn't fix the problem
07:54<Celestar>XeryusTC: yeah, but I can now load the savegame apparently
07:54*Celestar tries fixing
07:55<Celestar>XeryusTC: when is that game supposed to crash?
07:55<XeryusTC>when the train starts loading cargo
07:55<XeryusTC>after the cargo appears on the station that is
07:56<Celestar>XeryusTC: I don't manage to crash it
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07:56<Celestar>what happened to the color of the patch window?!
07:56<XeryusTC>newgrf :P
07:56<XeryusTC>it replaces mauve by black :P
07:56<Celestar>:P
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07:56<XeryusTC>it is meant to work on the CC only, but it also affects windows :P
07:57<Celestar>XeryusTC: tell me something about the "crash" .. I don't get any crash
07:57<XeryusTC>uhm
07:57<Celestar>Grenwich Heights, right?
07:57<@peter1138>I had cargo not loading at all when using norouting.
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07:57<XeryusTC>when the vehicle starts loading cargo i get the MSVS just-in-time debug window :P
07:58<@peter1138>Different compiler, see...
07:58<Celestar>peter1138: are you 100% certain? Often enough, the cargo display of the station is not updated correctly
07:58<@peter1138>It wasn't loading.
07:59<Celestar>XeryusTC: interesting.
07:59<Celestar>works here
07:59<XeryusTC>ah well, i cant load the game anymore with the update :o
07:59<XeryusTC>but it still happens with new games etc
07:59<Celestar>XeryusTC: update again
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07:59<Celestar>XeryusTC: then you can load
07:59<Celestar>er wait, gotta push
07:59<XeryusTC>it doesn't happen when i change the patch setting to enable dests
08:00<Celestar>pushed
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08:00<Celestar>XeryusTC: then someone with MSVS needs to debug this. can't do anythingf
08:02<XeryusTC>hmm
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08:02<Celestar>like glx :D
08:02<XeryusTC>are there any other devs using MSVS?
08:02<Celestar>peter1138: are you able to debug this "no loading" issue? I'm kinda busy :(
08:02<@peter1138>Nope.
08:03<Celestar>pity
08:03<XeryusTC>cargo_left[v->cargo_type].find(next_station)->second <= 0 <- I guess it fails on that (economy.cpp:1645)
08:03<+glx>what?
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08:04<Celestar>glx: you got a minute or two?
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08:05<Celestar>Rubidium: are you already having a look at the code?
08:06<@Rubidium>not at this exact moment, will try to look at it later
08:06<Celestar>awesome
08:06<Celestar>Rubidium: don't forget to re-pull before that because I'm still trying to fix stuff (=
08:09<Celestar>XeryusTC: any error messages?
08:10<XeryusTC>Celestar: still the same
08:10<Celestar>XeryusTC: it seems the no-loading problem is related
08:13<XeryusTC>hmm
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08:15<Celestar>peter1138: found the reason
08:17<@peter1138>\o/
08:17<Celestar>attempting a fix
08:18<Forked>oh oh oh.. can I test this when I get home from work?
08:19<Celestar>Forked: what platform?
08:20<+glx><Celestar> glx: you got a minute or two? <-- yes
08:20<Celestar>glx: you're on MSVC right?
08:20<Forked>win32 cuuurrently.. but tempted to go linux x64 again .. or at least 32bit on the laptop
08:20<+glx>mingw and msvc
08:21<Celestar>glx: can you get the latest cargodest from arwen.fvfischer.de:8000 and try compiling (warnings?!) and check whether XeryusTC game crashes for you?
08:21<+glx>compiling right now
08:22<Celestar>MSVC that is
08:23<Celestar>peter1138: have a fix
08:25<Celestar>peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/loadfix.diff
08:26<Celestar>XeryusTC: can you apply that diff and see if the crash persists?
08:27<+glx>ok compiled
08:27<XeryusTC>lets see what i can do
08:28<Celestar>peter1138: perhaps the next_station evaluation belongs into the RoutingBase_t implementaitons
08:28<+glx>Celestar: is it possible to configure your server to send diff as text/plain so I can just open it in my browser?
08:29<Celestar>glx: not sure
08:29<Celestar>it's a horribly complex httpd configuration :P
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08:30<Eddi|zuHause>damn... i can't drag&drop the invisible engine, because the mouse cursor gets invisible, too :p
08:30-!-nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
08:30<XeryusTC>Celestar: it's fixed
08:31<Celestar>great
08:31<@peter1138>Grr, I'm missing syslog messages :o
08:31<Celestar>XeryusTC: will finish that in a bit
08:31<Celestar>gotta go a bit
08:31<XeryusTC>nice :)
08:31*peter1138 ponders setting up another server.
08:31<XeryusTC>i got a running game anyway
08:31<XeryusTC>thank you :)
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08:34-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
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09:00<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Cottbus%20Transport,%2021.%20Okt%201925.png
09:01<Yorick>just a bit too much brown in the town
09:02<Yorick>half of the buildings are brown, tram tracks are brown, tracks are brown, trains are brown, industries are brown, some trees are brown, truckstops are brown
09:03<Yorick>depots are brown
09:04<Gekz>wtf
09:04<Gekz>trams taking coal?
09:04<Gekz>SATANIC
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>that's better than the green of TTRS
09:04<Kloopy>There are coal trams?
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. in the German RV set
09:04<Kloopy>lol
09:04<Kloopy>:)
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>i'd view it more like an industrial narrow gauge rail
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>those were really not uncommon
09:05<@peter1138>I need to make a 'proper' narrow gauge GRF...
09:05<@Bjarni>industrial lines tend to be narrow gauge unless they want to exchange wagons with a real railroad
09:05<@peter1138>One that uses the unreleased spec... hehe
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>the capacity of the "cargo trams" is just a bit too little
09:06<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: how did you get it to leave wagons on the sidings?
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: can it have doubletrack on one tile?
09:06<@peter1138>No.
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>then it's bad :p
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: it's an invisible engine
09:06<@Belugas>hello guys
09:06<@Bjarni>ahh
09:06<@Bjarni>cheater :p
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=36168&p=666951#p666951 <- for example this one
09:07<Gekz>peter1138: unreleased spec?
09:07<@peter1138>Unobtainable too, at the moment. It's on our wiki.
09:07<Gekz>linky?
09:07<@Belugas>no-availability
09:07<@Bjarni>downish
09:08<+glx>Gekz: any 404 link ;)
09:08<@Belugas>no-apachi-not-runny
09:08<@peter1138>Hello Sir Belugas.
09:08<Gekz>glx: :D
09:08<Gekz>so the server
09:08<Gekz>why is it in a state of chronic fail?
09:09<Yorick>because MiHaMiX is currently unreachable
09:10<@Belugas>I salute thou too, Sir Peter :D
09:11<@peter1138>We did it to tease you.
09:11<@Rubidium>because we can't reach anybody that can reach the server
09:11<+glx>the server itself is running
09:11<+glx>(nightlies are compiled)
09:12<XeryusTC>hmm, the cargo dests crashed on me again, on the same line O_o
09:12<@Rubidium>Yorick: that happens when your ISP fails to connect you
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09:25<Celestar>I'll bbl
09:27<Gekz>Nay sir.
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09:55<Brianetta>Eddi: Do you live in Cottbus?
09:57<@Belugas>NIce reply on the war thread, Brianetta
09:57<Brianetta>(:
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: no
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>that's the name of the city where i started...
10:03<Brianetta>ah
10:03<Brianetta>Just that I know somebody there
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10:04<Celestar>hey
10:05<ln>halloy
10:05<Celestar>XeryusTC: peter1138: glx fix ok?
10:06<XeryusTC>Celestar: i managed to crash it again
10:06<Celestar>XeryusTC: related or unrelated?
10:06<XeryusTC>related
10:06<XeryusTC>exact same line
10:06<Celestar>I see
10:06<XeryusTC>now it was with a cargo that does has destinations though
10:07-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: having my company name automatically assigned to the city makes the games better memorizable when i look at them after a while ;)
10:09-!-Celestar_ [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0DA821.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
10:10<XeryusTC>http://www.openttdcoop.org/blog/files/XeryusTC/autosave6.sav crash happens within a few seconds after load
10:10<Celestar>XeryusTC: I'll check that in a minute or two
10:11<XeryusTC>oh, seems i turned improved loading off in it :P
10:11<Brianetta>Eddi|zuHause: That's cool. I tend to come up with different names for my company for the same reason.
10:11<XeryusTC>or i've overwriten it in the mean time :o
10:11<Brianetta>"One Track Mind" was a good game.
10:11<Brianetta>I've lost it now, though
10:13<Celestar>why are there two celestars?
10:13-!-Celestar_ [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0DA821.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
10:13<Celestar>that's why :P
10:14<XeryusTC>Celestar: that was the wrong save, i guess i've overwritten the autosave by now :o
10:14<Celestar>XeryusTC: pity
10:14<XeryusTC>jup
10:15<XeryusTC>but this time it was the exact same thing, except that it was with a cargo that does have destinations
10:15<XeryusTC>it might've crashed because a train stopped at a station that it wasn't sheduled to stop at
10:16-!-mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:16<Celestar>XeryusTC: you have a weird implementation of std::map
10:17<XeryusTC>hmm, that must be msvs' fault then :P
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>i think decreasing the transfer credit by 30% helped in making the trams profitable
10:17-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
10:18<XeryusTC>hmm, crashed indeed :o
10:18<Celestar>XeryusTC: can you paste me the exact error message?
10:19<XeryusTC>the just-in-time debugger window just says i get an unhandled win32 exception
10:19<XeryusTC>"An unhandled win32 exception occured in openttd.exe [3800]" is what it says
10:19<+glx>XeryusTC: easy to reproduce?
10:20<XeryusTC>glx: yes
10:20<XeryusTC>i'll upload a save
10:20<Celestar>glx: might I ask you to have a look at this?
10:20<+glx>if it's reproducable I can (try to) debug
10:20<XeryusTC>http://www.openttdcoop.org/blog/files/XeryusTC/autosave4.sav that should crash if train 3 revisits the station it is currently in again
10:21<XeryusTC>happens around Dec 20th
10:22<Celestar>checking too
10:22<+glx>pulling, compiling
10:22<Celestar>nocrash
10:22<XeryusTC>it malfunctions with these orders anyway, it keeps unloading passengers into that station when comming from Sunstoke Common and picks it up when comming from the other side just to do the same
10:23<+glx>compiled, running
10:25<+glx>hmm missing grfs
10:26<XeryusTC>i use #openttdcoop's grf package, from trunk ;)
10:26<XeryusTC>although 7.2 will most likely be the same
10:26<+glx>I have 7.1
10:26<ln>17:21 <@Sharlin> "The first century starts at 0001-01-01 00:00:00 AD, although they did not know it at the time. This definition applies to all Gregorian calendar countries. There is no century number 0, you go from -1 to 1. If you disagree with this, please write your complaint to: Pope, Cathedral Saint-Peter of Roma, Vatican."
10:27<ln>17:21 <@Sharlin> -- http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.2/interactive/functions-datetime.html
10:27<Celestar>XeryusTC: non-scheduled stops are NOT working
10:27<Celestar>;)
10:28<XeryusTC>i've noticed that yes :P
10:28<Ammler>glx: update is small: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF#Download :-)
10:28<+glx>currently exporting :)
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10:30<fjb>Hello
10:31<SpComb>hmm... it's been a while since I worked further on the NewGRF download thing
10:31<SpComb>OpenTTD's network code is just a bit too silly
10:32<@peter1138>No it's not.
10:32<SpComb>perhaps I should just split the lines of code that modify the global variables into another function, cross my fingers, and hope for the best
10:32<SpComb>yes it is
10:32<+glx>still missing grfs
10:32<Ammler>silly XeryusTC, using trunk :P
10:32<@Belugas>hoo...and you can, of course, bring a brand new shiny version that is all but silly?
10:32<SpComb>how do you create a new TCP connection that uses OpenTTD's select loop, but isn't a connection to a full-blown OpenTTD server, and isn't supposed to be used for joining a game?
10:33<XeryusTC>glx: the only thing you could be missing should be the dutch signals
10:33<XeryusTC>and dutch statons maybe
10:33<+glx>dutch tramset too
10:33-!-rortom [~rortom@p57B7F43B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:33<Yorick>SpComb: the network lobby uses tcp...
10:33<+glx>ukrsi bricks 1.32 is disabled
10:34<SpComb>NetworkConnect flips all kinds of "_network_join_status" bits and calls "ShowJoinStatusWindow"
10:34<SpComb>which is not what I want to do
10:34<Ammler>shouldn't they load with compatible mode?
10:34<Ammler>(except the signals)
10:34<XeryusTC>the dutch trams have been made incompatible with older versions
10:34<+glx>transpengw
10:35<SpComb>and then I'm not sure what kinds of side-effects the "NetworkAllocClient" call has, but I do know that the socket must be in there to be polled in the select loop
10:35<Ammler>oh, then we should add the older one to the obsolete branch
10:35<@peter1138>Those are for *game* clients, obviously.
10:35<SpComb>it's really, really difficult to figure out what kinds of side-effects functions like NetworkConnect have
10:36<@peter1138>Modify the select loop.
10:36<XeryusTC>hmm, i might've the transpengw downloaded seperately from the pack
10:36<+glx>anyway I'm getting trunk
10:36<XeryusTC>indeed i have, along with the rusty sidings
10:36<@Belugas>SpComb, so basically, anything you do not understand it silly... right...
10:37<SpComb>Belugas: mostly just that it's hard to understand what a function does, because it modifies all kinds of global variables, and those kinds of things aren't very well documented
10:37<SpComb>but I guess that's just how it tends to be
10:37<Yorick>SpComb: the network lobby uses tcp...
10:38<Celestar>glx: do you get any crashes?
10:39<+glx>hmm it sill uses a compatible one for dutch station
10:39<+glx>Celestar: I may get crashes due to missing grfs ;)
10:40<+glx>assert
10:40<Celestar>er not good :P
10:41<+glx>on 26th dec for train3
10:41<XeryusTC>indeed
10:41<XeryusTC>but apparently it's because Celestar didn't implement non sheduled stops yet
10:41<+glx>in xtree
10:41<+glx>_DEBUG_ERROR("map/set iterator not dereferencable");
10:42<+glx>,...,...,...if (_settings_game.order.improved_load && cargo_left[v->cargo_type].find(next_station)->second <= 0) {
10:42<+glx>there
10:42<+glx>find() probably returned end()
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10:43<Celestar>glx: possibly
10:43<+glx>indeed
10:43<Celestar>what is "next_station" set to?
10:43<+glx>+,...,...cargo_left,...[32]([2]((6,101),(8,23)),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0]()),...std::vector<std::map<unsigned short,int,std::less<unsigned short>,std::allocator<std::pair<unsigned short const ,int> > >,std::allocator<std::map<unsigned short,int,std::less<unsigned short>,std::allocator<s
10:44<Celestar>:S
10:44<+glx>next_station is 3
10:44<@peter1138>Simple to fix.
10:44<Celestar>very simple
10:44<@peter1138>That just means there is no cargo there yet, no?
10:44<@peter1138>(for that station)
10:44<Celestar>XeryusTC: non scheduled stops won't be implemented in the first iteration
10:44<Celestar>peter1138: no, we're at some other place
10:44<@peter1138>Oh. Okay.
10:45<Celestar>glx: what is it that I am seeing?
10:45<Celestar>glx: your output I mean
10:46<+glx>cargo_left vector value
10:46<Celestar>ah
10:46<Celestar>((6,101),(8,23)) <= that's the map, right?
10:46<XeryusTC>jup
10:46*Celestar thinks
10:46<+glx>for cargo_type 2
10:47<+glx>hmm no 2 values for type 0
10:47<Celestar>yeah
10:47<Celestar>101 passengers to station 6 and 23 passengers to station 8
10:47<+glx>none for station 3 so end() and crash
10:47<Celestar>hm.
10:48<Celestar>the linux stl doesn't crash on that one
10:48<Celestar>weird
10:48<Celestar>glx: does this fix it? http://www.fvfischer.de/msvc.diff
10:50<@peter1138>Ugly.
10:50<@peter1138>find() is relatively expensive.
10:50<Celestar>peter1138: I trust the compiler
10:50<@peter1138>foo = cargo_left[v->cargo_type.find(next_station); if (foo != cargo_left[v->cargo_type].end() && foo->second <= 0) ...
10:50<@peter1138>maybe
10:51<@peter1138>Trust the compiler... hehe...
10:51<Celestar>peter1138: let's first find out if it helps (=
10:51<+glx>assert again :)
10:51<+glx>line 1653
10:51-!-Reemo [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0F001.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:51<+glx>same cause
10:51<Celestar>glx: same thing
10:52<Celestar>but not in the line before?
10:52<Celestar>glx: let me write a proper fix
10:52<+glx>like "cache" the value somewhere ;)
10:53<+glx>as it may fail on line 1679 too :)
10:54<Celestar>yes
10:54<Celestar>already doing so (=
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10:56<+glx>iterators can be nasty ;)
10:56<Celestar>only if you deference a faulty one
10:56-!-LilDood [~IceChat7@cpc2-bolt5-0-0-cust370.manc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: buh bai]
10:57<+glx>and indeed gcc doesn't crash
10:57<@peter1138>Luck, possibly?
10:57<+glx>different implementation
10:58<Celestar>peter1138: end()->second is not wrong by default, it's just UB afaik
10:58<+glx>but I'd say MSVC is right
10:58<+glx>(for once ;) )
10:59<Celestar>glx: peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/msvc.diff <= better?
11:00<Celestar>the newer MS compilers aren't really bad
11:01<+glx>Celestar: I'd use a bool to store _settings_game.order.improved_load && cargo_left_pos != cargo_left[v->cargo_type].end()
11:01<Celestar>glx: the purpose being?
11:01-!-dazzz [~zzz@90.151.96.122] has joined #openttd
11:02<+glx>less duplication
11:02<Ammler>src/network/network_chat_gui.cpp:227: void NetworkDrawChatMessage(): Assertion `blitter->BufferSize(width, height) < (int)(_chatmsg_box.width * _chatmsg_box.height * sizeof(uint32))' failed.
11:03<+glx>Ammler: update
11:03<Celestar>Ammler: it wasn't me :P
11:03<+glx>I already fixed that
11:03<+glx>Ammler: or don't use 32bpp-anim
11:03<Ammler>glx: used -b 32bpp-optimized
11:04<+glx>oh then it's the obiwan
11:04<+glx>(fixed too btw)
11:04<Ammler>:-)
11:04<Ammler>do you have the rev in mind?
11:04<+glx>14080
11:05<@Bjarni>@openttd commit 14080
11:05<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
11:05<@Bjarni>great
11:05<Ammler>hmm, now svn also down?
11:05<+glx>Celestar: works
11:05<@Bjarni>works
11:05<@Bjarni>from CLI
11:05<@Bjarni>looks like it's the bot that's broken
11:06<Celestar>glx: just a sec
11:08<Celestar>glx: peter1138: reload the diff. That's better isn't it?
11:08<Ammler>glx: shouldn't I be able with dos grfs and blitter on to join a wingrf server?
11:09<Ammler>without the glitches...
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11:14<Celestar>glx: I'm committing this, k?
11:14<+glx>doing a test run agai
11:14<+glx>+n
11:14<prakti>The Wiki is down,.. how come?
11:15<+glx>to be sure
11:15<+glx>Celestar: ok for me
11:15<+glx>prakti: known
11:15<Yorick>prakti: the hungarian server deamon died
11:16<Celestar>XeryusTC: pull and try again
11:16<XeryusTC>hmm
11:17<XeryusTC>pull doesn't remember the other url :o
11:17<Celestar>XeryusTC: nope, only the first one
11:17<Celestar>arwen.fvfischer.de:8000
11:18<+glx>XeryusTC: fix it in .hg/hgrc
11:26<Celestar>XeryusTC: I'm doing some preliminary fixing of intermediate stations, so that the whole system doesn't just fail when a train arrives at a wrong place
11:26-!-rortom [~rortom@p57B7F43B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
11:26<XeryusTC>hmm, cool :)
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11:31<Celestar>peter1138: ping
11:32<@peter1138>Hi
11:32<Celestar>peter1138: did you have a patch for the destination display in the total cargo view?
11:33<Celestar>XeryusTC: please pull again ;)
11:33<@peter1138>Nope.
11:34<Celestar>peter1138: pity, I'd come handy (=
11:34<Celestar>it'd*
11:37<fmauNeko>can I change a newgrf paremeter via rcon or server console ?
11:38<@Rubidium>no
11:38<@Rubidium>will it ever be implemented?
11:38<@Rubidium>no
11:39<fmauNeko>okok :)
11:39<XeryusTC>Celestar: jup, i'm missing that too :(
11:39<Ammler>fmauNeko: you can change them local and reload the save, that's how we do it...
11:39<fmauNeko>Ammler: that's how I was going to do the trick :p
11:39<+glx>please not that it may cause problems
11:40<Ammler>+e
11:40<+glx>*note
11:40<Celestar>XeryusTC: it will happen
11:41<Celestar>XeryusTC: I'm just lazy and waiting for peter to do it :P
11:41<+glx>fmauNeko: so don't report bugs if you used this trick ;)
11:41<fmauNeko>i won't :p
11:41<XeryusTC>Celestar: tssk :P
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11:42<Celestar>hehe peter1138, the Transfer credit stuff is working perfectly.
11:43<XeryusTC>hmm, time to compile and playtest a bit again
11:43<Celestar>peter1138: only the cargopackets with the transfer credits are no longer on the vehicle :P
11:43<@peter1138>Uh...
11:44<Celestar>peter1138: hence v->cargo.FeederShare() is returns zero after the stuff has been unloaded. I kind of fail to see the point of that figure in the GUI :P
11:45<Celestar>s/is//
11:46<@peter1138>It has worked previously...
11:46<XeryusTC>ottd sure takes a long time to compile
11:46<XeryusTC>almost 3 mins for a change to a few lines :o
11:47<@peter1138>Takes about 15 seconds.
11:47<@peter1138>Maybe you need a faster PC ;)
11:47<Celestar>peter1138: yeah. I'm investigating
11:47<XeryusTC>i guess it's MSVS code generation thingy :P
11:47*Belugas remembers the "happy days" when he was working on widgets/windows. Now TAHT was ,long, alomost fur recompile evry time
11:48*Celestar hands Belugas a new keyboard
11:48<XeryusTC>i like fur recompiles
11:48*Yorick hands the whale a dictionary
11:48-!-Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
11:48<@Belugas>no... just some herbal tea, as i'm pretty high on coffeine as we speak...
11:49*Yorick hands the whale some herbal tea
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11:52<Celestar>peter1138: interesting
11:54*Belugas is not a whale. It's a dolphin :P
11:54<@Belugas>a whale is a mysticete, whyle dolphins are odontocetes
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12:01<Digitalfox>Good afternoon :)
12:02<@Belugas>Hello Digitalfox
12:03<Digitalfox>What is the version of Flyspray in bugs.openttd.org? I know it's aheaviliy modified one, but notheless what's the version used?
12:03<Digitalfox>Well hello Belugas :)
12:03<Digitalfox>Belugas work @ work?
12:04<@Rubidium>Digitalfox: it's not that modified
12:04<@Rubidium>it's 0.9.9.5
12:04<@Belugas>yes, still at work. for another 5 hours
12:06<XeryusTC>Celestar: it seems to be working properly btw
12:06<Digitalfox>Rubidium thank you.. Well the old Flyspray used in bugs.openttd.org was, before this last update :)
12:06<Celestar>XeryusTC: ahwesome
12:06<XeryusTC>dunno of the cargo handling is still proper though :P
12:09<Celestar>heh?
12:09<XeryusTC>it did some odd things with unloading before :P
12:09<Celestar>back in a few
12:09<XeryusTC>on unsheduled stops
12:09<Celestar>yeah, but it doesn't now
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12:30<Celestar>back
12:32<Celestar>peter1138: I don't get it. not at all
12:32<@peter1138>Does it work in trunk? :)
12:33<Celestar>didn't really try :P
12:33<Celestar>will do later
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12:37<Celestar>peter1138: LOL
12:37<Celestar>SetDParam(0, v->cargo.FeederShare());
12:37<Celestar>"v" is the engine of the train
12:37<Celestar>which (normally) doesn't have any cargo
12:37<@peter1138>Oh... so it never worked :D
12:38<@peter1138>Only for RVs and ships...
12:38<@peter1138>Sorry for wasting your afternoon ;)
12:38-!-Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
12:38<Celestar>peter1138: :P
12:39<Celestar>peter1138: fix in trunk or locally?
12:39<Celestar>(testing now)
12:39<@peter1138>Trunk.
12:39<Celestar>yah works now
12:41-!-Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo
12:42<Celestar>peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/transferfix.diff <= go or no-go?
12:42<@peter1138>I think it's more extensive.
12:42<@peter1138>Articulated road vehicles.
12:42<@peter1138>Aircraft.
12:42<Celestar>yeah...this is the train version
12:43<Celestar>why do we have so much code duplication in the GUI :S
12:43-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-108-163.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
12:43<@peter1138>They're all slightly different :o
12:43*peter1138 ponders going home
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12:45<Yorick>oh ye
12:45<Yorick>is that the oh-oh?
12:45-!-LilDood [~IceChat7@cpc2-bolt5-0-0-cust370.manc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
12:48<Celestar>Rubidium: ping
12:48<Yorick>ooh, Celestar is playing ping-pong
12:49<Celestar>peter1138: are you going home or are you still pondering
12:49<Celestar>Rubidium: please review: http://www.fvfischer.de/transferfix.diff
12:50<Celestar>I'm off for the rest of the day prolly
12:51<Celestar>peter1138: I'll be tackling the cargo view display tomorrow unless you insist on doing it (=
12:51<@Belugas>looks fine for me, Celestar
12:51<Celestar>Belugas: ok going for it
12:51<@Belugas>although maybe Rubidium might find stuff i did not
12:52<@Belugas>baaa... reverts are always possible :D
12:52*Celestar shrugs
12:52<Celestar>my first commit-to-trunk in ages :P
12:52<CIA-5>OpenTTD: celestar * r14098 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_gui.cpp roadveh_gui.cpp train_gui.cpp): -Fix: Make the 'Transfer Credit' display aware of the entire consist, not only the first vehicle
12:53*Yorick congratulates Celestar
12:53<Celestar>thanks :D
12:53<Celestar>bbl
12:55<@Belugas>maybe it's time to remove your inactive status ^_^
12:59<Yorick>the revival of Celestar :)
13:00<@Bjarni>hmm
13:00<@Bjarni>if he is no longer dead, wouldn't it make him undead?
13:01<Kloopy>He's either an undead or he's Jesus.
13:01<Prof_Frink>ZombieCelestar!
13:01<@Bjarni>last time I checked Jesus didn't know German
13:01<Yorick>what's a Jesus?
13:02<Yorick>is that an imaginary object?
13:03<Prof_Frink>Yorick: Some bloke who was around about the same time as Brian.
13:03<fjb>How does the pope talk to Jesus?
13:03<Yorick>he talks to his imaginary jesus
13:03<Yorick>and pretends it responds
13:03<fjb>The pope speaks german.
13:07<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r14099 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp:
13:07<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Welcome back, Celestar.
13:07<CIA-5>OpenTTD: While at it, an alphabetic error been fixed
13:07<Celestar>fjb: no he doesn't. He speaks bavarian
13:07<Celestar>heh ;)
13:08<Prof_Frink>Beveragian!
13:08<Celestar>Belugas: no offense, you forgot the readme.txt (=
13:08<fjb>Hm, ok...
13:08<@Belugas>gaaa
13:09<Celestar>peter1138: you @ home already?
13:10<@peter1138>Yes.
13:11<Celestar>peter1138: the total cargo view, how do we detail the display? Destination or Origin/Destination ?
13:11<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r14100 /trunk/readme.txt: -Fix(r14099): Who reads readme.txt files anyway?. Same work as previous commit.
13:11<Celestar>or Origin | Destination
13:11<@peter1138>Or same options as station view?
13:11<@peter1138>I'd like to reuse some of that if possible. Should be, it's classes...
13:12<Celestar>I quite agree, but I think "Nexthop" might be irrelevant
13:12<@peter1138>Uh... true :)
13:12<Celestar>we should be able to reuse the stuff anyway
13:12<@peter1138>Yup.
13:13<Celestar>peter1138: then I'll leave it to you, you've done the station gui stuff and know it better
13:14<Celestar>;D
13:14<@peter1138>Crap, I ran out of chicken :(
13:14<Celestar>:(
13:14-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host196-236-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:15<@Belugas>lol... i read " i ran out of children"
13:15<Wolf01>hello
13:15<Wolf01>:O
13:15<Wolf01>communist!
13:15<@Belugas>hello Wolf01
13:15<@Belugas>communist?
13:15<Wolf01>they eat childrens
13:15<@Belugas>they are ogres?
13:15<@Belugas>blaaaa..
13:15<Celestar>"childrens" *shudder*
13:15<Wolf01>ehm... we eat children
13:16<hylje>groups of children, ergo childrens
13:16<hylje>so it must eat them more than one at a time
13:16<Celestar>and a groups of groups of children and childrenss ?
13:17<Wolf01>last time i ate red cape or what's called she in english
13:17<hylje>little red riding hood
13:18<Wolf01>http://www.gioiadelcolle.info/public/2007/09/cappuccettorosso.jpg here you can see a picture of us :P
13:19<Celestar>peter1138: you mean to move all the stuff out of the station view window class and into something own?
13:21<@peter1138>Yes, like the sign list is.
13:21<Celestar>aye
13:21<Celestar>if (b >= lastof(string) - (1 + 2 * 4)) <= what about writing '9' ?
13:21<Celestar>:P
13:22<@Rubidium>probably because 2 utf8 encoded characters + the '\0' is beter guessable from that than from 9
13:22<Celestar>well neither helped me :D
13:23<@peter1138>That should be a comment really :)
13:24<Celestar>there is a comment
13:24<Celestar> // ',' or ' ' and two calls to Utf8Encode()
13:24<Celestar>which didn't help me a lot
13:26*Celestar shrugs
13:26<@peter1138>How simple would it be to turn _network_client_info and _clients into std::vector/SmallVector?
13:27*Rubidium was pondering using a pool
13:27<@peter1138>And: do _clients and _network_client_info actually need to be split?
13:27<Celestar>Rubidium: why not std::vector ?
13:27-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-228-27.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:30<Ammler>Rubidium: you said, the nightlies are done, somewhere else, can we grap them there?
13:31<@Belugas>svn co + compile youir own ^_^
13:31<Ammler>Belugas: I have no idea how to compile :P
13:32<@Belugas>and it's unfortunate that the wiki is down :(
13:33<Ammler>we should update to newer nightly tonight, to get rid of the desyncs...
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13:34<Celestar>have the desyncs been fixed?
13:34<Ammler>didn't frosch tell that?
13:34<@Belugas>hehe for once, the "we" includes the talker
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13:35<Yorick>what commit should they have been fixed?
13:35<@peter1138>There've been no desync related commits.
13:35<Yorick>except for the new autoreplace
13:35<@peter1138>That was a while ago.
13:36<Ammler>+-http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/fa24e759e11d
13:36<Ammler>(14085)
13:36<@peter1138>Oh, probably cause for the desyncs with DOS graphics: GRFs checking for DOS vs Windows and then disabling themselves.
13:36<Celestar>\o/
13:36<@peter1138>-y+e
13:36<@peter1138>Oh, that was ages ago.
13:37<@peter1138>Saturday...
13:37<Celestar>I was on a comp ...
13:37<Ammler>that is after our current ps rev :-)
13:37<@Belugas>that you
13:37<@Belugas>ve won, Celestar?
13:37<Celestar>Belugas: not really.
13:37<Celestar>but we ended up in the middle, which is a success
13:38*Belugas congrats Celestar and his partner :)
13:38<Celestar>thanks :D
13:39<@peter1138>-y+eIt can be extended. It would just need an additional button, that's all."
13:39<@peter1138>Hee...
13:39<@peter1138>Hmm, silly paste :o
13:40<@Belugas>the post was even sillier :)
13:41<Celestar>:P
13:41<Celestar>bbl
13:41<@peter1138>Well I meant to paste it, but without the -y+e at the beginning...
13:41-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0DA821.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:46*Belugas sings War Pigs
13:51-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1FF64.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:00-!-[alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
14:01<Sacro>Bjarni: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyGlZ3LbkgU XD
14:06*Belugas resists clicking
14:08-!-Amixbook [~Amix2008@106.80-203-44.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
14:08<Yorick>click click click click click click
14:08<Yorick>clickety click
14:08<Yorick>click clock click
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14:11<valhallasw>old.
14:12-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-108-163.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
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14:22<oh>were the osx/leopard nightly build issues fixed?
14:23<Prof_Frink>oh: The nightly server's broken.
14:23<oh>vague question I know, @work right now ;>
14:23<Yorick>oh: thewhole nightly archive is down
14:23<Yorick>oh: are you the oh I knoh?
14:23<oh>if you haven't seen me in a while, then yes ;p
14:25<Yorick>oh, trust me, I haven't
14:26<Prof_Frink>oh, really?
14:26<Yorick>[20:26] <Prof_Frink> oh, really? <-- "yes, really"
14:26<Prof_Frink>(sorry, too good to pass up)
14:27<@Belugas>who's up?
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14:31<oh>:(
14:31<Sacro>oh :(
14:32<Sacro>valhallasw: my god, you live
14:32<FR^2>Hmm. Is there a way to disable airplains and helicopters?
14:34<Yorick>FR^2: not that I knoh of
14:34<FR^2>Hmm.
14:35<FR^2>I mean I can reduce the number of airplanes to zero, but that won't stop the AI to build airplanes ;)
14:35<Sacro>http://java.sun.com/j2se/javadoc/writingdoccomments/index.html#curly <- Mon Dieu...
14:36<ln>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7568045.stm
14:36<FR^2>Sacro: *lol*
14:36<Yorick>FR^2: you can stop the ai building airplanes
14:37<FR^2>Yorick: How?
14:37<Yorick>patches>competitors
14:37<FR^2>Yorick: Yes, sorry, my sentence was wrong... Silly me. I meant to say: I mean I can reduce the number of airplanes to zero, but that won't stop the AI to build airPORTS ;)
14:38<Tim>There is a whole patch-tab called AI or so
14:38<FR^2>Yes, there is.
14:38<Tim>there you can disable trains / planes etc
14:38<Tim>for ai
14:38<FR^2>Something like "deactivate airplanes for the computer", but that won't stop it to build airports.
14:39<Tim>Hm, that's ugly ;)
14:39<FR^2>r11527
14:39<FR^2>Is there anywhere a mirror where I can get a newer nightly? The servers still seem to be down.
14:40<@peter1138>Uh, that option will stop the AI building airports...
14:42<Yorick>FR^2: r11527 is very old
14:42<Yorick>http://www.direlands.net/ottd/14099/ottd_14099.win32.zip
14:42<FR^2>Yorick: I know, therefore I thought maybe that's bug that was fixed long ago ;)
14:42<FR^2>For linux / i686 i should have said.
14:43<Yorick>compile yorself
14:43<Yorick>;)
14:43<FR^2>Are the sources in that win32 archive as well?
14:43<Yorick>svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
14:43<Sacro>cd trunk
14:43<FR^2>Ah, subversion is still available? Great! Thanks.
14:43<@Bjarni><Sacro> Bjarni: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyGlZ3LbkgU XD <-- luckily I have no idea why you wanted to show ME this one
14:44<Sacro>Bjarni: thought it'd raise a smile
14:44<@Bjarni>ahh
14:44<@Bjarni>it did
14:44<@Bjarni>somewhat
14:44<@Bjarni>that gotta hurt though
14:44<@Bjarni>I was scared that you imagined it would represent my driving skills or something
14:44<FR^2>hehe
14:45<@Bjarni>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SRWugR6oFE <-- this isn't fitting for my driving skills either
14:46<@Bjarni>I never had a derailing accident :D
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14:55<valhallasw>Sacro: yes, it seems. semi. and not often
15:03<Ammler>FR^2: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/bundles/r14099-linux-i686-r14099.tar.bz2
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15:03<Ammler>hmm
15:03<Ammler>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/bundles/OTTD-linux-i686-r14099.tar.bz2
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15:17<FR^2>Ammler: Thanks, just built it from the subversion trunk
15:18<FR^2>n8
15:18<Ammler>yeah, read it after :-)
15:19<FR^2>:) Thanks, though
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15:21<eax>Hi :) In my OpenTTD game a planecrash just occured. Does the plane remove it self or what do I have to do?
15:21<eax>I tried googling it with no solution
15:21<planetmaker>it will go after some time
15:21<eax>Thanks :) But what about the other planes?
15:22<planetmaker>they've to wait till then
15:22<Ammler>it takes around a month
15:22<planetmaker>before that runway may be used
15:22<|Jeroen|>you could always divert them :-)
15:22<|Jeroen|>manualy
15:22<eax>Okay, thanks a lot everyone :D
15:22<planetmaker>np
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15:23*planetmaker wonders how many downloads does a stable release usually get?
15:24<@peter1138>Cursed!
15:24<planetmaker>I hope note :)
15:24<@peter1138>Removed my small airport to replace it with a large airport... and it won't let me... and there's no small airport to put back :(
15:24<planetmaker>:(
15:24<@Belugas>undo - button!
15:25<planetmaker>You need clearly the build airport over other airport patch :P
15:25<planetmaker>... and close airport in order to get it free of planes :P
15:25<@peter1138>It's all Belugas' fault!
15:25<@Belugas>is not!
15:26<@peter1138>Hah. it crashed :o
15:26<Sacro>is too!
15:27<planetmaker>:O
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15:30<Kloopy>planetmaker: Is the close airport patch in trunk now?
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15:30<planetmaker>surely not
15:31<Kloopy>I didn't think so, just you spoke about it as if it was. :)
15:31<planetmaker>well. sure or not, it simply isn't :)
15:31<Kloopy>hehe
15:31<planetmaker>eh, no. It was meant as an unqualified hint ;)
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15:37<@peter1138>Crap, I need to expand my stations again :(
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15:42<@peter1138>Hmm, railtypes is 70KB :o
15:42*Yorick encourages make it smaller by commit
15:43<Yorick>0kb would be enough
15:44<@peter1138>I could, but it's not finished at all.
15:44<@peter1138>But there are certainly bits I could use.
15:44<@peter1138>s/use/apply/
15:47<Yorick>would cargodest be compatible with infrastructure sharing?
15:48<@Belugas>two different features , isn't it?
15:48<Yorick>it is
15:49<@peter1138>No owners are involved with the cargo routing, so it should be fine.
15:49<Yorick>:)
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15:50<@peter1138>Hmm, right, I need to revert some of my changes for stations. It was wrong :o
15:55<@peter1138>Partially...
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16:05<planetmaker>infrastructure sharing doesn't like yapp for me...
16:05<Yorick>why do new vehicle windows have a viewport?
16:06<planetmaker>so that you can order them
16:06<planetmaker>or refit
16:06<planetmaker>and start
16:06<Yorick>the new vehicle introduced windows
16:08<Yorick>news popups, I mean
16:08-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:09<Yorick>planetmaker: I can't order/refit/start vehicles I have not built yet
16:09<planetmaker>oh that one.
16:10<planetmaker>nice and flashy :)
16:11<Yorick>http://xs230.xs.to/xs230/08341/unnamed__7th_jan_2005220.png
16:11<@Bjarni>looks hacked
16:12<@Bjarni>or photoshopped
16:12<Yorick>Bjarni: does it?
16:12-!-KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-86-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
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16:12<@peter1138>Is that 0.6.2?
16:12<@peter1138>Cos trunk works fine for me.
16:12<Yorick>peter1138, no, it is r14100
16:13-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
16:14<Yorick>hmm, it actually crashed
16:14<Yorick>with oldpool.h
16:14<Yorick>assertion
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16:18<Yorick>Bjarni: why does it look hacked/photoshopped?
16:18-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
16:20<Yorick>the "ff" is because I just closed the patches window and something overflowed there
16:20<@Bjarni>I meant the message window full of water
16:20<Yorick>it is really there
16:20<Yorick>I'll try reproducing it with clean trunk
16:20<Yorick>I suspect it has to do with enginepool
16:21<@peter1138>...
16:21-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76BBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:22<@Rubidium>so it wasn't r14100
16:23<Yorick>would infrastructure sharing affect the news?
16:24<Yorick>hmm yes it does
16:25<@peter1138>Yorick, have you ever considered becoming a paid beta-tester?
16:25<Yorick>furtunatly not
16:25<@peter1138>Indeed.
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>somebody stole my internets!
16:27<Yorick>noes
16:27<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: luckily I have one
16:27<@Bjarni>I might share it with you if you are nice enough
16:28<Yorick>planetmaker: forget NS_OPENCLOSE with isr ;)
16:28<Yorick>is*
16:29<planetmaker>eh? well, I know that change.
16:29<planetmaker>actually... I just found in the IS thread that someone did the work to bring it to current trunk :P
16:30<Yorick>he failed :)
16:36<@Belugas>night all
16:37<Wolf01>nini
16:37<Yorick>night*
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16:58<planetmaker>night Belugas
17:09-!-endru [~guyver6@14-mi2-10.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: endru]
17:13<Wolf01>'night
17:13<Sacro>Why isn't 0.6.2 in Ubuntu :(
17:14-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host196-236-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:14<@Rubidium>because ubuntu people as slow
17:15<@Rubidium>though gentoo people are even slower
17:15<Sacro>hmm
17:15<Sacro>Arch has it updated within hours
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17:19<@Rubidium>gentoo people 'have' to use 0.5.2 as that's the latest one for them
17:19<Sacro>how can i ssh tunnel openttd?
17:19<Sacro>cos it takes aaaaaaaaages to download server games :(
17:19<Sacro>i wonder how i can debug it
17:19<Sacro>cos websites and suchlike are whizzy
17:19<Sacro>but openttd fails :'(
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17:29<Eddi|zuHause><Yorick> would cargodest be compatible with infrastructure sharing? <- yes, but the owner of the last vehicle will get all the transfer money, i'm afraid
17:30-!-De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-132-73.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:31<fjb>Sacro: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979.
17:32<@Rubidium>Sacro: use ssh+ppp
17:33<fjb>The orders list needs a kind of look ahead.
17:34-!-Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [Leaving]
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17:34<Sacro>pc is fubar
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17:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14101 /trunk/src/cargopacket.h: -Cleanup (r14083): leftover friend.
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause>who needs friends anyway :p
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18:11<@peter1138>Bjarni's bad coding ;)
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18:21<flaske>hey guys
18:21<dih>baaaad Bjarni
18:22<flaske>anyone here know the save load infrastructure well?
18:26*Bjarni slaps dih
18:26<@Bjarni>if I want to make friends then I make friends
18:26*dih slaps Bjarni with his own code
18:26<dih>:-P
18:26<@Bjarni>that's cruel
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18:30*ln slaps dih with the Active Object pattern
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18:35<@Bjarni>The game is unable to display all the needed characters in the selected language. You need to enable freetype at compiletime to correct this. <-- I just added this message if somebody ends up with the ???? problem and the game is built without freetype. Do you think it's good enough?
18:35<@Bjarni>or can you think of something better?
18:38<@Bjarni>anybody here?
18:40<Sacro>me
18:40*Sacro cuddles Bjarni
18:40<Prof_Frink>Awww
18:41<@Bjarni>:(
18:41<Sacro>grr
18:41<Sacro>I can't find Dragons World for the BBC
18:41<@Bjarni>at least Prof_Frink is able to figure out if it's proper English
18:41<Sacro>Dragon World even
18:41-!-Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493C3AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
18:41<Sacro>Bjarni: compile time
18:41<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: maybe you can answer my question then ;)
18:41<Sacro>2 seperate words
18:41<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: hammer time
18:42<@Bjarni>:p
18:42<Prof_Frink>2 separate words
18:42<ln>Sacro: why not compile-time
18:42<Sacro>ln: that'd work too
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: but you have to make sure the message is not translated :p
18:42<Sacro>but the hyphen isn't really needed
18:42<Prof_Frink>temps d'compilation.
18:42<@Bjarni>why do I have the feeling that you aren't really taking this seriously?
18:42<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: because it's Sacro?
18:43<ln>Sacro: hmm, yeah, now that i looked at the context, writing them separately looks better.
18:43-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:43<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: I already ensured that part. It's not part of english.txt but instead the string is hardcoded in the source
18:44<@Bjarni>but... I'm not really happy with this message. Can you think of something better?
18:44<ln>Bjarni: I think your sentence has a more serious flaw, it says something that you didn't intend.
18:45<ln>Sacro: what do thou say about the word "all" in that sentence?
18:45<Sacro>ln: errr...
18:45<Sacro>redundant
18:46<@Bjarni>instead of fighting over one word, wouldn't it be better to figure out the structure in how to say it and then finetune if a word should be there or not? :)
18:47-!-thvdburgt [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:47-!-grumbel [~grumbel@i577ACA8C.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
18:47<ln>Sacro: especially, what do thou say about all vs. some?
18:48*Sacro kicks his BBC micro
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>didn't you learn _anything_ here? you first finetune everything, and then you throw it away and rewrite it comletely
18:48<Sacro>err.
18:48<Sacro>ln: both are redundant
18:48<ln>k
18:49<Sacro>:D
18:49<Sacro>I GOT PODD WORKING
18:51<Sacro>"Podd can..."
18:51*Sacro tells him to explode
18:51<@Bjarni>I guess it was a mistake to ask you guys :/
18:52<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: You knew that before you aked it.
18:52<Sacro>OpenTTD is unable to display the necessary languages in the current language.
18:52<Sacro>Please recompile enabling freetype.
18:52<Sacro>err
18:52<Prof_Frink>"OpenTTD is penis penis penis."
18:52<Sacro>Please enable freetype and compile"
18:52-!-De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-132-73.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd
18:53<Sacro>*recompile
18:55<@Bjarni>gahh
18:55*Bjarni stops reading this channel
18:55<@Bjarni>it hurts too much
18:55<Sacro>Bjarni is unable to read this channel
18:55<Sacro>Please replace the handset and try again...
18:55<@Bjarni>ARGHHH!!!!
18:56<ln>"The game is unabled to display ur chars. Plz recompiel ur game w/freetype."
18:56<Sacro>zomg
18:56*Sacro converts OpenTTD to lolspeak
18:56<Prof_Frink>lolcode!
18:57-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has left #openttd [I can't take it anymore.... luckily you guys lack commit rights]
18:58<ln>not all of us
18:59<Sacro>ln: if i do the conversion...
19:00<Prof_Frink>Sacro: I tried that wordmasher thingy in the 'sletter on ICHC.
19:00-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
19:00-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
19:00<@Bjarni>!logs
19:00<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
19:01<@Bjarni>you guys just reminded me of a survey I read about
19:01<@Bjarni>it was about as serious as your talk
19:01<@Bjarni>"if you were a dinosaur, which one would it be?"
19:01-!-flaske [flaske@ns163a.studby.ntnu.no] has quit []
19:01<Prof_Frink>Stegosaurus by a country mile.
19:03<SpComb>Bjarni!
19:04<@Bjarni>hello SpComb
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19:04<@Bjarni>SpComb: warning: it seems that this channel is even more stupid than usual
19:05<Sacro>is usual more stupid than me?
19:05<@Bjarni>no
19:07<ln>Bjarni: if stupidity is described by a complex number where the real plane is usual stupidity and the imaginary plane is sacroness, then what is the current square root?
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: how about: "Openttd is unable to display this language, you need to recompile with freetype support."
19:08<Sacro>OpenTTD was not compiled with freetype support and is thus unable to display this language"
19:08<SpComb>Bjarni: find a given user $nick, such that removing them from the channel will increase the average measured stupidity
19:08<SpComb>and then /kick $nick
19:08<SpComb>uh, decrease
19:09<Sacro>was gonna say... increase?
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>the sentence should not be too long and complicated, especially since the "target audience" might not be that well versed in english
19:09<ln>Eddi|zuHause: ".. to display some characters of this language..." would be more accurate.
19:10<ln>because for something like polish it may be that >50% characters can be shown using the good old sprites.
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>but does it need that level of accuracy?
19:11<ln>dunno
19:11<Sacro>fully display?
19:11<ln>why shouldn't the sentence be translatable?
19:11<Sacro>ln: well how would you show it in russian?
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>ln: it wouldn't make a lot of sense if the sentence could not be displayed :p
19:12<Sacro>??? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ????/
19:12<@Bjarni>Sacro: you made a typo
19:12<@Bjarni>you switched ? with ?
19:12<ln>Sacro: the usual way, by printing it.
19:12<Sacro>eh?
19:12<Sacro>what use is sending a message saying you cannot display cyrillic, in cyrillic
19:12<ln>Eddi|zuHause: the fact that it can't be shown by OTTD, doesn't mean it can't be shown some other way.
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>and you want to rely on some environment to be able to display UTF-8 strings?
19:14-!-welshdragon [~vista@host86-136-239-185.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>it's not getting better :p
19:15-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
19:15<ln>Eddi|zuHause: the message can be distributed as bitmaps for different languages.
19:17<@Bjarni>OpenTTD was not compiled with freetype support and is thus unable to display this language correctly. Recompile with freetype enabled to correct this issue. <-- now it looks better
19:18<@Bjarni>ln: right now it's English only. This is how it works in the trunk and I didn't plan on getting my patch to fix this
19:18<@Bjarni>since the goal is something else
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19:39<ln>Bjarni: what's the number of your iPhone?
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20:06<@Bjarni>ln: I don't own one
20:07<@Bjarni>in fact I don't own a mobile phone
20:07<ln>how can you live without one?
20:07<@Bjarni>I find that rather easy
20:08<ln>how do your friends contact you?
20:08<@Bjarni>they call me
20:09<ln>and when you are not at home?
20:11<@Bjarni>then they have to call some other time
20:11<ln>so 80's
20:12<@Bjarni>it works
20:12<@Bjarni>if it ain't broke, don't fix it
20:12<ln>even if Steve tells you to?
20:13<@Bjarni>why would I care?
20:13<ln>it's Steve, that's why.
20:14<@Bjarni>I will tell you this: there is no way that I will buy an iPhone with the prices that Telia have in Denmark
20:14<@Bjarni>people in Sweden complained about the high prices and Telia looked at it and instead of lowering the price, they changed it to flatrate
20:14<@Bjarni>they still keep the same price in Denmark, but they also want money for traffic
20:15<ln>buy one from another country and unlock it.
20:15<@Bjarni>I don't get what's so great about iPhone
20:15<@Bjarni>a phone is made for talking
20:15<@Bjarni>end of story
20:15<ln>me neither, and i'm not going to buy one.
20:16<@Bjarni>if I wanted a computer to go, I would like something a bit more powerful
20:16<@Bjarni>and bigger monitor
20:16<@Bjarni>Nokia s770 and s800 (or whatever the names are) are valid candidates for a small computer to go
20:17<@Bjarni>since the display is big enough for real software
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20:33<FauxFaux>Gah, lost trains ignoring pre-signals is so irritating.
20:33<bleepy>yet strangely fun at the same time
20:34<FauxFaux>Suprise autoreplace 15 years after I built a depot, and the entire network deadlocks as a train gets stuck.
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21:41<DaleStan>!seen TrueBrain
21:41<DaleStan>@seen TrueBrain
21:41<@DorpsGek>DaleStan: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 3 hours, 33 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> And Fuco, nice talking to you too :) (as in, it is not the first time I talk to Bjarni and Eddi|zuHause about random offtopic stuff :p)
21:41<Fuco>ye, i remember that conversation
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 19 00:00:02 2008