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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-08-19

---Logopened Tue Aug 19 00:00:02 2008
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02:20<Celestar>peter1138: ?
02:20<@peter1138>Wrong window of course.
02:20*Celestar looks what's on his cargodest-todo
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02:22<Celestar>peter1138: you got anything to pull?
02:23<@peter1138>Well, not that I know of... you can try.
02:24<Celestar>no changes
02:25*peter1138 wonders where to put the combined gui-code...
02:26<Celestar>peter1138: into the routing classes? or make a new class (and a new file maybe)
02:26<Celestar>Rubidium: how did you obtain the diff between cargodest and trunk?
02:26<@peter1138>hg diff -r <last trunk merge>
02:30<Eddi|zuHause>way too early... :(
02:31<Celestar>for what?
02:31-!-Tim [83dc24f1@] has joined #openttd
02:31<Tim>!identify Iba17iBg
02:32<Celestar>er ...
02:32<Celestar>no one's seen that tim (=
02:33<Eddi|zuHause>for everything obviously...
02:34<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: I quite agree. I stared at Tim's statement for a minute and didn't understand what was going on :P
02:35<Tim>Well, atleast i only use that one about 3 times in the Internet, so not too much changing ;)
02:37<Celestar>Tim: there's a reason why my IRC password is the only one I use nowhere else
02:38<Tim>sounds reasonable ;)
02:38<Tim>damn irc-commands...
02:39<Celestar>peter1138: what options have we to put the combined GUI-code?
02:39<Eddi|zuHause>there are clients that can run any outgoing message through a regexp replacement
02:39<Tim>oki-doki, everything changed ;)
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02:41<Celestar>peter1138: I don't manage that diff :P
02:41*Celestar goes reviewing his own code
02:48<Celestar>can't do this
02:48<Celestar>I know it my heart meanwhile
02:56<Celestar>hm ..
02:56<Celestar>what about the down server?
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03:17<Celestar>peter1138: wiki, translator etc
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03:21<@peter1138>translator is fine ;)
03:22<@peter1138>@seen mihamix
03:22<@DorpsGek>peter1138: mihamix was last seen in #openttd 31 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, and 33 seconds ago: <MiHaMiX> s/t$/d/
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04:07<@peter1138>Rubidium, "Why not in the for (;; <HERE>) ?"
04:08<@peter1138>Rubidium, because we've got an "it = packets.erase(it);" inside the loop.
04:08<@peter1138>Could do with a comment as to why though...
04:13<Celestar>peter1138: I'm going to remove the station name output, k?
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04:15<Celestar>unless you wait it to remain :P
04:17<@peter1138>Have you done any of the tidy ups, or shall I have a bash?
04:18<Celestar>most of them
04:18<Celestar>give me 10 minutes and I'll push them
04:18<Celestar>Rubidium: char == byte (=
04:19<@peter1138>Yes, but we use char only for characters.
04:19<@peter1138>We should use int8 or uint8 for numeric variables.
04:19<Celestar>or byte
04:20<@peter1138>byte for 'raw data'
04:20<@peter1138>Also, { return; } -> { }
04:21<@peter1138>For coding style, we should use char for characters, byte for some kind of raw data, and int8 or uint8 for numerics.
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04:24<Celestar>Rubidium: >>> Maybe make buoys act like waypoints? But doesn't it implictly get a non-stopping order? <= false. One of the main problem with many other paxdest patches
04:26<Celestar>A Buoy is a station and a Buoy-order is handled exactly like a station order
04:29<@Rubidium>so... make buoys really work like waypoints instead of stations
04:30<Celestar>that's not part of cargodest (=
04:30<Celestar>peter1138: push complete
04:30<Celestar>and Rubidium: a std::vector is not slower than an an array
04:31<@Rubidium>Celestar: so? fix the buoy stuff and clean up the buoy handling in trunk, like peter1138 often does when implementing patches.
04:32<Celestar>might do so at some point
04:32<Celestar>I've already had about a dozen tries at "repairing" buoys, all of them failed :P
04:32<@peter1138>- for (CargoID c = CT_BEGIN; c != NUM_CARGO; c++) delete Routing[c];
04:32<@peter1138>+ for (CargoID c = CT_BEGIN; c != Routing.size(); c++) delete Routing[c];
04:32<@peter1138>Not so sure on that one...
04:33<@Rubidium>Celestar: and how can a vector be not slower? It has to do an extra pointer dereference
04:33<Celestar>Rubidium: why?
04:33<Celestar>you access an element by /* not valid code */ vector->begin() + elem_number;
04:34<@Rubidium>and vector->begin() isn't a dereference?
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04:34<Celestar>Rubidium: just like a[0] is :P
04:35<@peter1138>a + elem_number is less dereferencing that vector->begin() + elem_number
04:36<Celestar>I'll have a look at the ASM output at some point
04:36<@Rubidium>vector: *(this->_M_impl._M_start + __n), array: *(this + __n)
04:37<@Rubidium>(array code made to look like vector code ofcourse)
04:39<blathijs>peter1138: I think that storing Routing.size() in a separate variable instead of using it directly in a for loop does speed up things
04:39<Celestar>blathijs: er.
04:39<@Rubidium>peter1138: anything obviously wrong with (does work with the supplied test grf)
04:40<Celestar>blathijs: the compiler moves loop-invariants out
04:40<Celestar>at least on -O1, maybe even -O0
04:41<blathijs>Celestar: I'm not sure it can do that with function calls, though they should be inlined I guess
04:41<Celestar>blathijs: all container methods are inlined
04:41<Celestar>blathijs: except (maybe) the find/search stuff
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04:42<Celestar>blathijs: hence the non-existant debuggability with -fno-inline
04:42<blathijs>Celestar: Might be slightly more problematic if you call another (unknown) function in your loop body, then the size isn't guaranteed to be loop-invariant (unless the vector is a local var, in which case the compiler could be smart enough)
04:42<Brianetta>Apparently, I'm the friendly face of OpenTTD
04:43<Celestar>"but a 51 years-old man who doesnt know much about the world of TTDOpen" <= /me shakes head in utter disbelief
04:43<blathijs>Celestar: I see your point, but I think it won't work in all cases. In any case, only calling size() once is what happens in every loop in the LLVM project, and I tend to trust those guys as to what is needed for performance :-)
04:44<Celestar>I'm not sure this is the right time to squeeze the last performance drops out of cargodest
04:44<dih>is there an easy way i can determine if i am using a nightly or a stable/rc release?
04:45<dih>checking for a prefixed r to the version number is not valid enough
04:45<Celestar>peter1138: for something completely different. I'm going to add a penalty for each stopover, so that cargo sill prefer fewer hops. Making it constant first, and adding settings (along with the vehicle factors) later. k with you?
04:45<dih>as a hg checkout will have a completely different number
04:45<blathijs>Celestar: Neh, it's more of an optimization that you should simply do everywhere I guess, ie, as a part of your coding style
04:46<@Rubidium>checking stables it easy, the rest isn't
04:46<blathijs>Celestar: It also helps to make lines shorter :-)
04:46<@Rubidium>Brianetta: got no idea where we were unfriendly to him
04:47<Brianetta>Rubidium: I still don't know where it was tha tI shone out as the friendly one.
04:48<Forked>Brianetta: maybe it was because you didn't type anything when he stopped by
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04:48<Brianetta>I think he played my server
04:49<@peter1138>Rubidium, er, I'd already written that :o
04:52<@peter1138>(Out of date of course)
04:53<@Rubidium>why don't you just always use the preload when available?
04:53<@peter1138>Possible expensive lookup, I think it was.
04:54<@Rubidium>true, but if you skip the action 6 it'll be broken
04:54<Celestar>peter1138: is that an "ok" (=
04:54<@Rubidium>though GRFLocation is a nice idea
04:55*Celestar goes hunting some food
04:55<@peter1138>Hmm, I didn't consider skipping.
04:58<@peter1138>It would be much simpler if we loaded the whole GRF into memory, like TTDPatch ;)
04:58<@peter1138>That would be a bit wasteful.
04:59<@Rubidium>okay, it's only 5 lines ;)
05:00<@peter1138>Yeah, mine includes tons of other changes for GRM :o
05:01<DaleStan><peter1138> That would be a bit wasteful. <-- Well, "like TTDPatch" would involve loading the GRF into memory, and then modifying it in-place, instead of copying all the data elsewhere first.
05:01<@peter1138>DaleStan, wasteful for us, I mean.
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05:11<Brianetta>Wiki's still down, I see
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05:14<dih><Rubidium> checking stables it easy, the rest isn't <- you have a hint for me how i can check if something is a stable or not?
05:15<@Rubidium>there's a 'bit' in that's set for stables
05:15<dih>ah - ok - let me rephrase then ;-)
05:15<dih>can i check a binary if it's sable
05:16<dih>like - i can get the version number with ./openttd --help
05:16<@Rubidium>then the answer is no
05:16<dih>thanks - all i needed to know :-)
05:16<@Rubidium>unless you're looking for \d+\.\d+\.\d+
05:21<Celestar>peter1138: the fine-tuning of Routing_t, do we want that cfg-only or with GUI?
05:22<@peter1138>Most fine tuning is config-only.
05:22<@peter1138>We're talking pathfinder penalty type tuning, yes?
05:23<Celestar>vehicle penalty factors, stop penalty factors ..
05:24<Celestar>damn I wanted to make a cardodest vehicle entry
05:24<Celestar>Rubidium: about the console command. The user has to know the CargoID, you can get the StationID with "rn lv"
05:24<Celestar>Rubidium: I'll ad a list of cargoids as well
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06:35<@peter1138>I don't think the console command is that useful.
06:35<@peter1138>The map shows most of it.
06:35<@peter1138>Direction is missing.
06:35<Celestar>peter1138: it helps me for debugging ;)
06:36<Celestar>hell I love this game
06:37<Celestar>peter1138: Direction?
06:39<@peter1138>On the map, no direction for cargo is shown. It doesn't matter for passengers or mail anyway.
06:39<Celestar>peter1138: true
06:39<@peter1138>Wooden bridges :o
06:40<Celestar>peter1138: the only one that I can build at the moment with the grfs loaded
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06:43<dih>what's up with
06:43<dih>or rather "what's down with"
06:43<@peter1138>The server is up.
06:43<@peter1138>The HTTP daemon is down.
06:43*peter1138 has to go.
06:44<Celestar>peter1138: have fun
06:44<@peter1138>Rearranging my mortgage? Sure...
06:46<dih>can someone up the http daemon on please?
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06:53<Ammler>dih: that is the 3. day now :P
06:53<Ammler>(or already the 4.?)
06:54<Celestar>Ammler: did you happen to test cargodest a bit more?
06:54<Ammler>nope :-)
06:55<Ammler>is peters cargodest server with current pull?
06:57<Celestar>Ammler: dunno
06:57<dih>why is that stuff down then?
06:57<Celestar>Ammler: mine is up-to-date
06:59-!-fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
07:00<Ammler>we have still desyncs with plain trunk
07:00<Ammler>dunno, if it makes sense to testplay cargodest then...
07:01<Kloopy>But at least the cargodest guys will be able to help debug the trunk :P
07:02<Ammler>Kloopy: same guys :-)
07:02<Kloopy>It forces them to debug trunk :P
07:02<Kloopy>Not that they wouldn't anyway, of course.
07:03<Kloopy>But then when trunk doesn't desync anymore, I can finally play with YAPP across the Internets :D
07:04<Ammler>Kloopy: well, it is "enough" stable for playing...
07:04<Kloopy>I was playing with friends and we got desyncs after 3 years game play. Unfortunately my save game doesn't reproduce it though. :(
07:04<Kloopy>So it's fine for short games :P
07:05<Ammler>Kloopy: did you try to continue?
07:05<Kloopy>Yeah, and it happened again every couple of months.
07:05<Ammler>to same guys?
07:05<Ammler>or all?
07:05<Kloopy>Everyone but the server
07:06<Ammler>yeah, would be strange if the server desyncs :P
07:06<Kloopy>Ofc :P
07:07<@Bjarni>I was once kicked out of a game... the host went bankrupt :p
07:07<Ammler>still don't think desyncs comes from YAPP...
07:07<@Bjarni>it was as annoying as a server desync
07:08<@Bjarni><Ammler> still don't think desyncs comes from YAPP... <-- desyncs are when certain numbers stop matching. It's easy to detect that they aren't the same but going back to figure out why the data is different and what data is different is tricky
07:09<@Bjarni>it's like a car that fails to start. Everybody can see that it can't start but it takes a skilled guy quite a while to find the cause of it
07:09<@Bjarni>solution: used unskilled people as it takes too long for a skilled guy :p
07:11*Bjarni selects Ammler as the unskilled guy who should remove all possible desyncs
07:11<Ammler>thank you for the "should" :P
07:11<Forked>if game == desynced then sync game
07:11<Celestar>Forked: ?
07:12<dih>what a load of gibberish
07:12<@Bjarni>I think he meant resend the savegame
07:12<@Bjarni>but I'm not quite sure
07:12<Forked>you were looking for unskilled people, no? ;p
07:12<Ammler>Celestar: just load the game fresh?
07:12<Ammler>Bjarni: skilled and unskilled thinks the same :P
07:13<@Bjarni>Forked actually has a point. However we ruled against this because then people wouldn't report desyncs
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07:13<Forked>I what? I was just blurting out some gibberish :\ but ok! I'll take credit. heheah..
07:13<Ammler>and the server is on instant pause :P
07:14<@Bjarni>Forked: you have a point in the claim about the request for unskilled people, not the solution :P
07:14<SpComb>it not work then reboot();
07:14<SpComb>*if it not work then reboot();
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07:15<Forked>Bjarni: pfft, you were talking about resending the game when someone desyncs
07:16<Ammler>if that not work then rm / -Rf
07:16<@Bjarni>reminds me of when I was learning java. I made some methods and checked the input. If it were outside the defined interval it should just return without doing anything
07:16<@Bjarni>so I wrote System.Exit()
07:17<@Bjarni>then I learned that Java actually have a return statement and System.Exit() was too forceful
07:18<@Bjarni>I think I will implement this idea in OpenTTD
07:18<@Bjarni>if somebody wants the train on Tile x and there aren't any train on tile x, then quit the game without any message
07:19<Ammler>Bjarni: some custom defined rules should be possible :-)
07:19<Noldo>isn't that asserting?
07:19<Ammler>like 2x45=kick
07:19<@Bjarni>the same goes for sell, start and stop all buttons in the depot. If no vehicles are in the depot, then quit the game with no message at all
07:20<Ammler>Kurt has some of those rules on his server...
07:21<@Bjarni>I like the readme for the update for Imperialism. It said that if you click the auto finish combat button more than x times (like more than 50 times or so) within a certain timeframe (you had to hurry) then the game would crash. They didn't want to fix this and just told the players not to do so because it didn't make sense to press it more than one
07:22<@Bjarni>I read it and though "who figures out bugs like that?"
07:22<@Bjarni>and bug reports it
07:23<@Bjarni>btw the guys behind Imperialism is out of business today but I don't think it's due to this bug
07:24<Kloopy>lol. It's nice to think it might be due to that bug though.
07:24<@Bjarni>they did implement such a button in Imperialism II in a way so it avoided this bug
07:25<@Bjarni>the game is kind of nice, but really hard to get today and updates... well took me ages to find them online
07:27<Celestar>Rubidium: got a sec
07:28<@Rubidium>it at least needed a sec to answer that ;)
07:29<Celestar>I don't understand your "About orders" part in the review :P
07:32<@Rubidium>the first item: previously management of the vehicle chain was scattered around and the next/previous/first thing was duplicated many times. I moved that to a single function called SetNext and called that. Something similar should be done with the order list management; adding/moving/removing and order should be a function which is called from wherever the order change comes from
07:32<@Rubidium>be it cloning, insertion, moving, deletion, marking orders invalid, etc.
07:32<Celestar>isn't that what we have now?
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07:33<@Rubidium>CmdInsert does insertion, CmdClone does insertion, CmdMove does some magic, CmdDelete does something, ...
07:34<Celestar>ah .. you mean basically rewrite the order system? :P
07:34<@Rubidium>well, the very low level part of it
07:34<Celestar>k, I'll see what I can do in trunk about this
07:35<@Rubidium>about the second, I see the following quite a lot:
07:35<@Rubidium>+ for (uint c = 0; c < NUM_CARGO; c++) {
07:35<@Rubidium>+ if (HasBit(mask, c)) Routing[c]->ProcessOrderInsertion(new_o, v->type);
07:35<@Rubidium>+ }
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07:39<Celestar>Rubidium: I also don't understand your comment about Order::GetNextOrderCyclic
07:42<Celestar>Rubidium: I've split the header file btw, not that it makes a huge difference in the compile time :(
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07:51<@Rubidium>Celestar: would it please you if you add the new header to the mercurial repository?
07:51<Celestar>Rubidium: er .. I did
07:52<@Rubidium>then push it?
07:52<@Rubidium>87d2525988c3 doesn't have it
07:52<@Rubidium>from arwen
07:52*peter1138 returns with a new mortgage 'deal'
07:53<Celestar>Rubidium: weird
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07:54<Celestar>Rubidium: 6bb825518410 <= I've added it here
07:55<@Rubidium>the diff doesn't show that
07:55<@peter1138>Bah, why do the 'Japanese Import' versions of audio CDs have more tracks?
07:55*Celestar logs onto arwen and looks
07:56<Gekz>peter1138: explain
07:56<Celestar>peter1138: yes.
07:56<@peter1138>Gekz, 'Japanese Import' versions of audio CDs (in a silly cardboard case that doesn't fit CD racks) have more tracks than the usual jewel-case CD.
07:57<@peter1138>And they cost more.
07:57<Gekz>how does that make them "Japanese Import"
07:57<@Rubidium>because Japanese people don't have much space they must put more on the CDs
07:59<@peter1138>It's what they're called.
07:59<@Rubidium>about the cyclic: now you have a special case for when there's one order, however the next order of that one is itself so it should just return that (IMO)
08:00<Gekz>I prefer my FLACs anyway
08:01<Ammler>nice additional job for translators: readme.txt
08:01<@Rubidium>and do blabalbalh; while (blaladadsgasdgsd); isn't as legible as: do {\n\tblabalabl;\n} while (blahblablah);
08:01<Ammler>a liesmich.txt would be very cool
08:01<+glx>Ammler: do it (maybe we will use it)
08:02<Gekz>is readme.txt translated into french?
08:02<Ammler>shouldn't that be done by the "official translators?
08:02<+glx>Gekz: it's not
08:02<Celestar>that's a nice track layout
08:02<Celestar>Gekz: wow?
08:02<@peter1138>Gekz: < Japanese version of something...
08:02<Gekz>I would have thought it would be.
08:03<Gekz>run away
08:03<Gekz>I might do it to practice my french
08:03<Gekz>is the svn up?
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08:04*Celestar just realized that this is a *small* station
08:04<@Rubidium>has the svn been down?
08:06<Gekz>I thought it was.
08:06<Gekz>I had a test today, for software design.
08:07<Gekz>"Jana wants to use a public domain program as part of a program she is developing. That program is covered by a license which allows only non-commercial use. How can Jana make sure she doesnt break the license?"
08:07<Gekz>Didn't it just say public domain?
08:07<Gekz>Yes. The question is wrong. In a test that gets you into university.
08:08*Gekz claps sarcastically until his hands bleed
08:09*Celestar tries to find a Trackplan of Munich Central Station
08:10<@peter1138>To make that layout we need bendy tunnels ;)
08:10<@peter1138>(and bridges)
08:10<Gekz>implement it!
08:11<+glx>someone did it already (but very ugly)
08:11<Celestar>peter1138: what layout?
08:12<@peter1138>The link you posted.
08:13<Celestar>peter1138: yeah, but that's a small one
08:13<Gekz>what am I looking at
08:13<+glx>hmm spaces have been converted to %20 magically
08:14<@peter1138>And Firefox converts them back for me :o
08:14<Celestar>peter1138: here
08:15<+glx>peter1138: I copied the url from firefox
08:15<@peter1138>Mine converts the %20s back to spaces :(
08:15<+glx>mine too
08:15<@peter1138>Celestar, so we need my old diagonal station patch too? :D
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08:16<ln>Celestar: what about the underground platforms and tracks?
08:17<Celestar>ln: they're off-image
08:17<Celestar>use that one for a full layout
08:17<Gekz>my friend had £840 deposited into his account from a random
08:19<Gekz>I'm jealous
08:19<Gekz>and he emailed him
08:19<Gekz>and it bounced.
08:20<@peter1138>"emailed him"
08:20<Gekz>it was paypal
08:21<Gekz>smells of scam to me
08:23-!-peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.2 | Some stuff on * is back
08:23<Celestar>heh. In my testgame, Köln is right next to Bonn
08:23<Gekz>and they are not irl
08:24-!-Tim [83dc24f1@] has joined #openttd
08:24<Ailure>I was introducing someone to openTTD yesterday, and just when i was going to point to the manual
08:24<Ailure>I realized some of the servers were down
08:26<Celestar>Gekz: they are
08:26<Gekz>Celestar: it was e-sarcasm
08:27-!-Volley [~worf@] has joined #openttd
08:29<@Bjarni>Ailure: we crashed the server just to annoy you :P
08:29<Ailure>Ack, I knew everyone worked against me. :(
08:30<@Bjarni>not everyone
08:30<@Bjarni>just the people who knows you
08:30<Gekz>everyone else plans to work against you
08:31-!-fjb [] has joined #openttd
08:31<@Bjarni>people like fjb
08:32<@Bjarni>fjb: you plan on it too, right?
08:32<fjb>Me? What are you talking about. Nothing good I suspec.
08:32<@Bjarni>I'm talking about the current topic in this channel
08:33<@Bjarni>would you presume that I went off topic?
08:33<fjb>No, not you. Else you would have to kick yourself.
08:34*peter1138 ponders
08:35<@peter1138>Should I 'port' some changes from my railtype repo to trunk?
08:35<Ailure>The Danish are a evil bunch
08:35<Ailure>I tell you
08:35*Celestar ponders
08:35*Ailure been up all for too long and should probably nap
08:36<@Bjarni>peter1138: if you think they are ready and the trunk would benefit from it, then I guess it could be done
08:36<fjb>Never trust your northern neighbours.
08:36<@Bjarni>fjb: Ailure is to the north compared to me :P
08:36<@Bjarni>but then again you are right
08:36<@peter1138>Bjarni, the bits I'm thinking of is things like using properties of RailtypeInfo for string IDs, instead of relying on consecutive IDs.
08:37<Ailure>Actually I live in Sk$BiO(Be
08:37<Ailure>So it's bit towards east
08:37<fjb>Ok, never trust your Danish neighbours.
08:37<Ailure>Or Scania as it's apparently is it's English name
08:37-!-divo [] has joined #openttd
08:38<@Bjarni>Ailure: you are supposed to use UTF-8
08:38<Ailure>I know
08:38<Ailure>I knew someone would point that out :)
08:38<@Bjarni>it looked really weird when you wrote Skåne
08:38<Gekz>Sk$BiO(Be you mean
08:38<SpComb>Celestar: got a hg-pullable repo for cargo packets?
08:38*SpComb wants to do some playtesting
08:38<Ailure>I'm using a old IRC client that dosen't apparently support UTF8, and uses ANSI encoding
08:39<@Bjarni>but somehow it looks correct anyway... it's something that's fucked up biological :P
08:39<Gekz>Ailure: time to grow up
08:39<@Bjarni>peter1138: I think adding support for correct properties instead of hardcoding stuff would be nice
08:39<Ailure>Upgrade you mean :P
08:39<Ailure>I guess I should
08:40<@Bjarni>Ailure: 1995 called. They want their software back
08:40<Ailure>That requires restarting though, so not right now. ;)
08:40<Ailure>It's actually from 2004
08:40<Gekz>you use Windows.
08:40<Gekz>This is unacceptable!
08:40<@peter1138>Bjarni, well, it's happening for NewGRF anyway, just by doing these bits first I can reduce the patch size.
08:40<Noldo>peter1138: jsut do it
08:40<@peter1138>71KB so far :o
08:41<Ailure>this version supports SJIS
08:41<Ailure>but not UTF8
08:41<Ailure>I might just switch IRC client
08:41<Ailure>Instead of upgrading
08:41<@Bjarni>peter1138: if you plan on committing it anyway then it would be best to split it up. Makes bug hunting easier later on
08:41<Noldo>peter1138: nike does it without the typo
08:41-!-Amixbook [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
08:41<Ailure>[14:40] <Gekz> you use Windows.
08:41<Ailure>Not always :)
08:41<Ailure>I use Ubuntu Linux on my laptop
08:42<@Bjarni><Gekz> you use Windows. <-- I told you he is contamilated
08:42<Ailure>Since it runs faster on it than Windows XP does
08:42<Gekz>Bjarni: contaminated
08:42<Celestar>SpComb: yes I have
08:42<Ailure>You mean, contaminated?
08:42<Gekz>lol contamilated.
08:42<Celestar>SpComb: could you connect to a server for a test?
08:42<Gekz>Bjarni: you non-English speaker you :P
08:43<Ailure>While I can understand that a word like contamilated is misspelled easily
08:43<Ailure>I'm trying to figure where the l came from.
08:43<SpComb>Celestar: well, me and a friend are playing a game, and were thinking about trying out the passenger destinations stuff
08:43<Ailure>For some reason, instead of writing the word I was using copy and paste.
08:44<Celestar>SpComb: please please please keep me posted
08:44<Ailure>cargo destination
08:45<Ailure>How many attempts have there been done with cargo destination now?
08:45<@Bjarni><Gekz> Bjarni: you non-English speaker you :P <-- do you have any idea of how hard it is to keep track of the garbage written here, reply to it and code at the same time?
08:45<Ammler>server up without mihamix?
08:45<Ailure>Not hard at all
08:46<@Bjarni>I prefer to concentrate on the coding part and then the channel suffers :p
08:46<Ailure>if you have four arms, two monitors, and one eye on each monitor
08:46<Ailure>and two keyboards
08:46<@Bjarni>I would need two computers
08:46<SpComb>Celestar: hmm... does the destinations stuff only apply for passengers and mail, or things like coal as well?
08:46<@Bjarni>or I will have to switch focus all the time
08:46<SpComb>and are the targets chosen from all stations, or only interconnected ones?
08:46<@Bjarni>SpComb: try it before asking
08:47-!-LilDood [] has quit [Quit: Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?]
08:47<Celestar>SpComb: it is configurable ...
08:47<Gekz>Bjarni: I understand, I just find it amusing :D
08:47<SpComb>well, those are easy-to-answer questions
08:47<@peter1138>When coding, IRC is ignored... :p
08:47<@Bjarni>then you would realise that the answer to your question is in the patches window
08:47<Gekz>Bjarni: like me speaking French or German >_>!
08:47<Celestar>SpComb: you need boost to compile it
08:47<SpComb>not an issue
08:47<Celestar>SpComb: good, and make sure you have identical boost version just to make sure
08:47<Ailure>I always have IRC up on my second monitor
08:48<Ailure>And with highlights I rarely miss a message
08:48<@Bjarni>sounds like a good idea
08:48<Ailure>However, I usually choose to not answer right away so I don't needlessy lose focus on typing an answer :)
08:48<@Bjarni>anybody who wants to sponsor a monitor for me so I can monitor IRC?
08:48<Ailure>Just do like what I did
08:48<Tim>Any chance someone can post a compiled win32-version of the Cargodestination? :) Or is that technically impossible?
08:48<Ailure>and use a old crappy CRT for it
08:49<@Bjarni>I don't have a CRT at all
08:49<Ailure>Mine starts having some ghosting articffacts from stuff being burnt in, but it's only noticeable against a black background
08:49<Ailure>and only if I look really close
08:49<Ailure>stuff is at least still readable
08:49<Noldo>cargodest is creating a bit of a buzz
08:49<Ailure>then look for one in a junkyard ;)
08:49<Ailure>I would rather use a LCD
08:50<Ailure>as a second monitor
08:50*peter1138 has a crappy LCD as a second monitor... and a CRT as primary.
08:50<@Bjarni>my CRT ended in a junkyard because it wasn't able to make the same pixel hit the same location each time anymore
08:50<@Bjarni>all that flickering gave me a headache :(
08:50<Ailure>My CRT is crappy onl ybecuse how used it is
08:50<Gekz>I have a backlight broken in my CRT
08:50<Ailure>Both of my monitors are about as big in terms of screen size :)
08:50<Ailure>but the CRT is a giant compared to the LCD when it comes to fatness and weight
08:51<Celestar>my primary monitors are two 19" TFTs :D
08:51<@Bjarni>I saw a nice and cheap 20" TFT (or was it LCD?). I was interested until I read a review
08:52<Tim>Celestar: So you have more than 2 monitors connected? ;)
08:52<Celestar>Tim: rarely, but I tried it
08:52<SpComb>TN panels /o\
08:52<Ailure>I probably hold off buying a new LCD for now
08:52<@Bjarni>you have to look at it at a certain angle... too high, low or to the side and it would be black
08:52<SpComb>I have two monitors, both of them ViewSonic, but one is a VX series, the other a VA
08:52<Ailure>there's apparently new technology out soon that probably beats LCD in certain compartments
08:52*Celestar wants a 30" OLED (=
08:52<Ailure>if anything, it might cause a price drop
08:52<SpComb>the difference between the two is very, very, noticeable
08:52<Gekz>I want a wall made of OLEDs
08:52<Ailure>OLED and uhm
08:52<Forked>Try the Eizo 24" LCD FlexScan SX2461WK
08:52<Ailure>I forgot the name of the other technology
08:53<Ailure>but it's a mix of LCD and CRT
08:53<@Bjarni>and it was impossible to adjust so you just need to sit really still and have the right chair, height and so on
08:53<Gekz>rear projected homosexuality?
08:53<SpComb>Celestar: what boost version are you using?
08:53<Forked>GF couldn't find a replacement CRT after the last one broke, so we got that one for her. Set me back a bit, but was totally worth it.
08:53<Ailure>basically, each subpixel have a own ray cannon
08:53<Ailure>or whatever it's called now
08:53<SpComb>I'd like to think of this in terms of which of debian's libboost-* packages I need to install
08:53<@Bjarni>SpComb: I'm using 1.35. I tried 1.33 and that one works too but it produced a lot of warnings on OSX
08:53<@Bjarni>stupid boost port >_<
08:53<SpComb>debian has 1.35
08:53<Ailure>I think it was this
08:54<SpComb>is the libboost-graph stuff enough?
08:54<Forked>10000 NOK for that eizo monitor.. worth every krone
08:54-!-Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
08:54<Forked>really good if you do photostuff etc and want the prints to look like they do on the monitor
08:54<SpComb>it's installing 270MB of libboost-* deps :)
08:54<Ailure>Supposdly a mix of the sharpness of a LCD screen, with the superior blackness of CRT
08:54<Ailure>Black colors do badly on LCD's
08:55<Ailure>In general at least
08:55<Celestar>SpComb: what distro is that?
08:55<Celestar>SpComb: I'm using 1.34.1
08:55<SpComb>/home/terom/openttd/cargodest-celestar/src/routing.cpp:11:26: error: routing_base.h: No such file or directory
08:55-!-KillaloT [] has joined #openttd
08:55<SpComb>and then later it predictably errors out totally
08:56<@Bjarni>forgot to add the file before committing?
08:56<SpComb>Celestar: and my distro is debian testing
08:56<Celestar>SpComb: pull again
08:57<@Bjarni>pulling from
08:57<@Bjarni>abort: error: Connection refused
08:57<@Bjarni>I haven't updated in a while
08:58<@Bjarni>since you turned off the computer each time I tried :p
08:58<SpComb>other than that, compiled fine
08:59<@Bjarni>I really can't pull hg :(
08:59<+glx><Tim> Any chance someone can post a compiled win32-version of the Cargodestination? :) Or is that technically impossible? <-- I can
08:59<SpComb>and it loaded the savegame as well
09:00<+glx>Bjarni: use arwen
09:02-!-jni [] has joined #openttd
09:02<+glx>edit it in .hg/hgrc
09:03<@Bjarni>I know that part :)
09:03<@Bjarni>got 136 changesets
09:04<Celestar>Bjarni: MFTs
09:05<SpComb>managed to compile the client and connect to the server as well
09:06<Celestar>Bjarni: merge from trunk
09:06<@Bjarni>but not all of it
09:08<SpComb>Celestar: are the values for economy.*_dest_type documented somewhere?
09:08<Celestar>SpComb: 0 == normal, 2 == destinations, 1 == reserved
09:09<Celestar>SpComb: one of use will need to write a wiki page
09:09<Celestar>SpComb: it's in the GUI as well, you know
09:09<+glx>hmm make bundle_zip outputs a norev000
09:09<SpComb>right, so I can set pax and mail to 2, and leave the rest as 0
09:09<Celestar>SpComb: for example
09:09<+glx>something is wrong with hg
09:10<SpComb>great, just waiting for my friend to finish compiling and we'll see if it works
09:11<Celestar>glx: sorry :P
09:11<+glx>not your fault I think
09:11<Celestar>SpComb: you test it, and then write a bit about it in the wiki?
09:12<SpComb>is there an existing wiki page?
09:13<Celestar>SpComb: nothing yet
09:13<Celestar>SpComb: zip
09:16<Ammler>glx: is make able to generate that name or did you change it after?
09:16<Ammler>(replaced custom with cargodest)
09:16<+glx>I fixed it by hand
09:16<+glx>(it was norev000 too)
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09:17<Celestar>SpComb: does it .. work?
09:18<Tim>glx: Thanks, i will try it today evening, i hope it will stay up as long as that... :)
09:18<SpComb>Celestar: well, it hasn't crashed so far
09:19<SpComb>but we don't have any passenger services
09:20<@peter1138>Sacro's already wanked off five times to that.
09:20<Gekz>oh wtf
09:20<Gekz>who is sthat.
09:21-!-Fuco [] has joined #openttd
09:21-!-Tekky [] has joined #openttd
09:22<Tekky>yay, the OpenTTD wiki is back up. The trains be praised.
09:24<Tekky>And the server admins of course, too. :)
09:24<Celestar>SpComb: mail only? :P
09:24<Celestar>Sacro: what about that image?
09:24<Celestar>I fail to see any humoristic content
09:24<Gekz>no heppy face
09:24-!-Tim [83dc24f1@] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
09:25<Sacro>Celestar: gay
09:25<ln>why GRF and not a normal name generator:
09:25<Noldo>gay == humoristic ??
09:25<Gekz>gay = homosexual
09:26<Noldo>ln: what do you mean by normal?
09:26<SpComb>Celestar: coal only
09:27<Celestar>SpComb: why?
09:28-!-Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
09:28<SpComb>Celestar: well, it's only in the year 1928
09:28-!-Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:28<Celestar>SpComb: heh ok
09:29<ln>Noldo: see src/namegen.cpp
09:29<@peter1138>ln, because a GRF does not need the source to be patched.
09:30<ln>peter1138: true, but they need the GRF.
09:30<@Belugas>they just have to make one
09:31<@Belugas>hello all, by the way
09:31-!-Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
09:31<ln>hmm, i wonder what "they" was i referring to... well, doesn't matter.
09:31<Noldo>hi Belugas
09:32<SpComb>Celestar: first passenger train did a round trip, and it hasn't crashed yet
09:34<Celestar>SpComb: and didn't desync either.
09:34<Celestar>SpComb: there'll be desyncs I guess. Not sure whether they are trunk-related or cargodest-related
09:34<Celestar>SpComb: check the smallmap for visual output or the console ("rn") for detailed viewing
09:35<@Belugas>ln, the same "they" as the ones you are refering to
09:35<@Belugas>hello Noldo
09:35<ln>bonsoir Belugas
09:36<Gekz>BONNE NUIT
09:36<Gekz>bonsoirée Belugas
09:36<Gekz>now leave.
09:36<@Belugas>no no no... right now, it's rather "Bon matin"
09:36*Gekz forces the frenchman into a hole
09:37<@Belugas>blame my time zone :D
09:38<SpComb>Celestar: should I increase the debug level on the console or somesuch?
09:38<Celestar>SpComb: is your server accessible from outside?
09:38<Celestar>SpComb: only if you're interested
09:38<Celestar>SpComb: you can set routing from 0 to 7 and cargopacket from 0 to 7
09:39<Celestar>7 WILL mess up your console badly :P
09:40<Brianetta>Does it log every logging attempt
09:40<Celestar>Brianetta: ?
09:40<Brianetta>It's the best way to get excessive debug output (:
09:40<Celestar>Brianetta: I don't need such ugly tricks for excessive debug output
09:40<SpComb>Celestar: accessible from outside?
09:41<SpComb>it's running on, default port
09:41<Celestar>SpComb: from me, specifically ;)
09:41<Celestar>rev mismatch
09:41<SpComb>I'm running what I pulled from you
09:42<SpComb>have you compiled after the header-fix commit you made?
09:42<Celestar>nope :P
09:42<Celestar>newgrf mismatch
09:42<SpComb>oh right
09:42<Celestar>which ones are you using?
09:42<SpComb>get the ottdc grfpack
09:42<SpComb>version 0.7
09:43<Celestar>0.7 ?!
09:43<SpComb>well, 7.0
09:43<Celestar>using 7.2 here
09:43<SpComb>hmm, I guess those two aren't compatible then
09:43<Celestar>no problem
09:43<Ammler>Celestar: we have legacy packs :-)
09:44<Brianetta>No wonder my backups take longer.
09:46<Celestar>you should update to 7.2 at some point
09:46<SpComb>but not now
09:46<SpComb>Celestar: I'll give you the server pw in a /notice
09:47<Celestar>dbg: [grf] NewGRF 44440602 not found; checksum FA22D67ABD830A8E905025F946356E29
09:47<Ammler>Celestar: looks like PBI :-)
09:47<Celestar>PBI being?
09:47<SpComb>Celestar: yes, it's pikka's basic industries v1.2
09:47<SpComb>should be part of the pack...
09:48<Brianetta>951c8905702994df78d3340fd13efb35 data/standard/pikkindw.grf
09:48<Ammler>SpComb: 7.2 has a updated one :-)
09:48<Ammler>Brianetta: didn't delete 7.1 packs
09:48<SpComb>fa22d67abd830a8e905025f946356e29 openttd/cargodest-celestar/bin/data/ottdc_grfpack/5_industries_cargos/pikkind/pikkindw.grf
09:48<@peter1138>Hmm, I can modify the railtype spec now.
09:48<@peter1138>I should lump all string properties together, I reckon.
09:49<Gekz>That underground rail patch is interesting
09:49<Brianetta>Gekz: and puzzling. One wonders where they store it.
09:49<Gekz>store what?
09:49<Brianetta>Underground rails.
09:50<Gekz>I dont get it.
09:50<Gekz>I'm way tired.
09:50<Brianetta>Each tile has limited storage space.
09:50-!-shodan [] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting]
09:50<Brianetta>Having underground rails means more to store.
09:50<Gekz>what can be pruned to make way>
09:51<Brianetta>It has *bits* to spare, not bytes
09:51<Ammler>SpComb: eis_os is thinking about a GRF Repo...
09:51<Brianetta>and since the map is an array of tiles, any increase will noticeably increase the sizeof a saved game
09:52<Brianetta>and since a saved game is transferred every time a multiplayer connects, nobody wants it to grow much.
09:52<Gekz>it's a patch
09:52<Gekz>therefore optional
09:52<Gekz>and i have 100KB/s upload
09:52<Brianetta>"it's a patch therefore optional" is how the guys at Patch work
09:52<Brianetta>Here, you need to convinve the dev team that it's a good thing
09:52<SpComb>Ammler: discussion where?
09:52<@Bjarni><Sacro> Bjarni: <--- what?
09:53<@Bjarni>why do you send stuff like that to me?
09:53<Ammler>SpComb: at #tycoon, yesterday?
09:53<SpComb>Ammler: I'll have to look at it later
09:54<Ammler>orudge: did setup suPHP for him :-)
09:54<Gekz>Brianetta: I meant enabled in the menu patch
09:55<Brianetta>Gekz: I know
09:56-!-Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:59<@Belugas>if it's in the code, from a programming point of view, it's not optional
09:59<@Belugas>it's there
10:00<@orudge>Ammler: mmh?
10:01-!-divo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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10:03<Ammler>@seen csaboka
10:03<@DorpsGek>Ammler: csaboka was last seen in #openttd 45 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 35 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <Csaboka> I have to go, bye
10:03<Celestar>that was about the time when he joined openttd (=
10:03-!-Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
10:04<Gekz>you satanic
10:04<Ammler>Celestar: you?
10:06<Celestar>Ammler: ?
10:08<@peter1138>He didn't join for very long, did he? :o
10:09<Celestar>no he didn't
10:09<Celestar>maybe we should e-mail him
10:10<@Belugas>i think we should not. If ever he feels like re-joining, i'm sure he will know how to and where to
10:10<@Belugas>And i do have a feeling his real life is a buzy one, right now :)
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10:13<Celestar>my client just survived a manual reset of the routing system without desyncing :)
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10:38<Yorick> :o my openttd just went asking me about zlib1.dll
10:40<Yorick>the same exe as the exact same dir
10:40<+glx>did you modify something in your system?
10:41<Yorick>just restarted...
10:42<@Belugas>stuff that get installed upon reboot?
10:42<@Belugas>or finally removed.. depends
10:42<Yorick>could be ms update....but haven't seen that
10:43<+glx>ms update has nothing to do with zlib
10:43<Yorick>but openttd should be linked statically to zlib1.dll, freetype6.dll?
10:43<Brianetta>say_player 255 "Spectators only (-:
10:43<Brianetta>Unknown player. Player range is between 1 and 8.
10:43<Brianetta>console can't chat to team, but graphical clients can
10:43<Yorick>Brianetta: patch it :)
10:43<Brianetta>Yorick: No
10:45<+glx>Brianetta: console can IIRC
10:47<Yorick>glx: look above ;)
10:47<+glx>hmm that's a bug I guess :)
10:52<Celestar>and once again, the slowness I just tried to identify in cargodest is because nspluginwrapper eats 99% of my CPU :S
10:52<Yorick>kill nspluginwrapper :)
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10:56<+glx>you don't need flash ;)
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11:02<Celestar>peter1138: hm?
11:03<@peter1138>Gah, OpenOffice hung, taking WMP with it. Stupid OS.
11:03<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe it's the HDD :o
11:03<@peter1138>Task manager and the Start menu are not working either...
11:03<Celestar>that sounds very much like windows
11:04<Celestar>then again, my screensaver on linux just crashed :P
11:04<Celestar>can't get into my X session
11:04<@peter1138>Reset to device, \Device\RaidPort0, was issued.
11:04-!-Purno [] has joined #openttd
11:04*Celestar logs in as root and kills the screensaver manually
11:05<Celestar>heh that even worked
11:05<Celestar>hey Purno
11:09-!-frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
11:09<Celestar>hey frosch123
11:09<Eddi|zuHause><Ammler> a liesmich.txt would be very cool <- nah... much better would be a "lesen.mir" :p
11:09<frosch123>hi Celestar :)
11:10<Celestar>haha Eddi|zuHause
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>i have really seen those :p
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11:13<Yorick>@seen TiberiusTeng
11:13<@DorpsGek>Yorick: TiberiusTeng was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 3 days, 0 hours, 2 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <TiberiusTeng> actually it was just a few lines now also in peter1138's update ;)
11:14<Ammler>newgrf gui?
11:14<Ammler>that's what I miss from him :-)
11:14<Yorick>so do I
11:15<@peter1138>newgrf gui *UPDATE*
11:15<@peter1138>We've had a newgrf gui for ages.
11:15<Yorick>at least he had a sane grfgui
11:15<Ammler>of course, sorry :-)
11:15<Yorick>a new-grfgui ;)
11:16<Ammler>we take trunk as given :-P
11:16<planetmaker>more, better, newer, now! ;)
11:16<Celestar>peter1138: what's the "update" part?
11:17<Yorick>it got multiculom, with drag&drop support for shuffling them
11:17<Ammler>if once used "that" GUI, you can't manage NewGRFs without, at lest not a list we have at coop.
11:18<Yorick>the presets are nothing compared to "that" GUI
11:18<Ammler>Yorick: they are in
11:18<Ammler>and I would not like to need to chose.
11:19*planetmaker goes home and will have a look :)
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11:22<Celestar>Yorick: I see
11:22<Celestar>no presets anymore?
11:23<Yorick>I don't know...
11:24<Celestar>peter1138: will that be in trunk at some point?
11:24<Yorick>I hope so
11:25<Ammler>Celestar: see last post, it has presets in, planetmaker that would be nice...
11:26-!-Tim [] has quit []
11:26<Ammler>one of the most important patches for my client IN :-)
11:26<@peter1138>Celestar, I've not even considered it, what with people who keep bugging about it.
11:27<Ammler>peter1138: who? (rubidums request is solved...)
11:28<@peter1138>Well so far you and Yorick.
11:28<Ammler>oh, I do?
11:28<Yorick>Ammler: does it?
11:29-!-Tim [] has joined #openttd
11:29<Ammler>peter1138: I bugged about the industry fix, which helped :P
11:30<Yorick>Ammler: I'm updating the gui now :)
11:30<Yorick>his patchpack got a version with presets
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11:35<Tekky>I have a little programming question: In Windows, when I create a DLL, I can specify which symbols should be exported and only those symbols will be visible, so I have no unnecessary global namespace pollution. But when I create a static library instead, I can't specify which symbols to export, so that all symbols are always visible. This causes problems with global namespace pollution. Is...
11:35<Tekky>...there any easy solution to this besides using different namespaces?
11:37-!-Doorslammer [] has quit []
11:37<Yorick>and he slammed the door
11:38<Yorick>./configure --help is broken, it just configures
11:39<Ammler>Yorick: it should show the help "after" configure :-)
11:40<Celestar>SpComb: you should write all your GUI suggestions up somewhere
11:40<Yorick>openttd -h does not show its help after you quit the game either...
11:40<Celestar>maybe peter1138 and I will find the time to look at it
11:42<@Belugas>Celestar, easy to write it down: MAKE IT DIFFERENT. We want NEW stuff
11:42<@Belugas>that;s all
11:44<Celestar>hehe :P
11:45<@Belugas>oh.. and "it has to be easier, 'cause i'm lazy'"
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11:50<Yorick>Ammler: do you need an update of the newgrf gui?
11:51<Yorick>would you like*
11:51<Ammler>update the thread, else planetmaker will do it again...
11:52<Ammler>and many thanks :-)
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11:57<Ammler>Yorick: you extracted from TibPP?
11:57<Yorick>I did
11:57<Ammler>did he use another version there?
11:58<Yorick>he updated it for the presets there
11:58<Ammler>the version in that thread had it too, I used that for wwottdgd
11:58<Yorick>at least the tibpp did apply
11:58<@peter1138>^ Who wants to download TTD? :o
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12:00<Ammler>maybe orudge will collect some time donatios for "his" fee?
12:01<Yorick>the multiplayer tooltip needs some updating :-)
12:02<Ammler>or did he move outside of uk?
12:06<@orudge>Ammler: it was never in the UK
12:06<Ammler>oh, now I make a diff between yours and yoricks :-)
12:06<@orudge>also, one of the download mirrors is...
12:07<@orudge>anyway, that company doesn't own TTD, as far as I know ;)
12:08<Ammler>well, also the german community homepage has "official" download locations
12:09<Ammler>he same location as openttd stuff.. (cillix)
12:14<Ammler>planetmaker: Yorick
12:15<Yorick>you diffed a patch?
12:15<Ammler>planetmaker: did it too in the meantime...
12:15<planetmaker>hehe :)
12:17<planetmaker>I took the last official newgrf-gui patch by Tiberius and just pasted it 1:1 - working fine
12:18<planetmaker>no cross-contamination from somewhere else possible :)
12:18<Yorick>heh :P
12:18<Yorick>mine is forking wine too :)
12:18<Yorick>working fine*
12:19<SpComb>Celestar: I should probably formulate them a bit better first
12:20<planetmaker>small is beauteful. Mine is 8k smaller :P
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12:21<mortal>thanks for openttd, guys
12:22<mortal>I just learned about it a couple days ago, I've been playing it non-stop only interrupted by silly studying
12:22<Celestar>SpComb: take time
12:22<@Belugas>studying.. that's as discusting as working
12:23<@Belugas>but... studying makes working more enjoyable
12:23<Ammler>Yorick: I will use planetmaker's version, I hope, you don't worry. ;-)
12:23<Yorick>it was more for personal use :)
12:24<planetmaker>Belugas: talking about the new grfgui patch? Probably :P
12:24<@Belugas>ho god no...
12:25<@Belugas>when I see all tghe extra tabs that neither you or yorick cared to remove...
12:25<Celestar>SpComb: 20 years, no desync :D
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12:25<Yorick>Belugas: should we?
12:25<Ammler>Belugas: do ignore my paste
12:26<Ammler>that was a patch of a patch :-)
12:26<@Belugas>no, you should invent your own code style and apply it all over the place :P
12:26<planetmaker>Hm... I thought I took some care to remove extra tabs
12:26*planetmaker should go reading on coding style again
12:27<@Belugas>planetmaker, don't rely on tools, use your eyes and an editor who can show ypu tabs and spaces...
12:28<planetmaker>Belugas: Was mostly manual, but granted, I didn't check for spaces. So, they were wrong before :P
12:29<@Belugas>i have to admit that planetmaker's patch is far superior regarding that then Yorick's one
12:30<Yorick>I agree
12:30<@Belugas>as always, Yorick, you are rushing on the job, not taking time to beautify it ;)
12:30<planetmaker>deleting superflous tabs was also half the work :P
12:30<Yorick>Belugas: I did not even look at the source
12:30<@Belugas>patience, patience. relax, sit back, read your "work"
12:31<planetmaker>spoketh the wise man of OpenTTD coding :)
12:31<@Belugas>mmh... well... you should not ;) i'm not even applying my own medecine ^_^
12:31<@Belugas>must be why my patches take so long to hit trunk hehe
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12:32<Yorick>Belugas: this patch was not intended to go into trunk
12:33<@Belugas>maybe not at first, but didn't you guys are trying to do so now?
12:33<planetmaker>is it for ... { or is the { in a new line?
12:33<@Belugas>and even then, does it mean the patch has to be sloppied written?
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12:33<@Belugas>planetmaker, don;t follow you
12:34<Yorick>planetmaker: for () {
12:34<planetmaker>general, a for loop. Is the opening { in the same line or the next ?
12:34<Yorick>helloh :)
12:34<@Belugas>Yorick is right. but a function has the "{" on a new line
12:35<planetmaker>aye. The patch has been quite inconsistant on that... :S
12:35<@Belugas>case NLWW_AVAILABLE_GRF_LIST: { <-- get some breathing room down there
12:37<planetmaker>hm... I don't follow. Empty line there?
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12:39<@Belugas>something like that?
12:40-!-notbleepy is now known as bleepy
12:40<@Belugas>the NLWW_TOGGLE_SHOW_MODE stuff seems to be silly
12:41<@Belugas>but i may have not seens the stuff in action
12:41<Yorick>it hides all grfids that are already used
12:41<@Belugas>this->show_file_names VS this->show_all
12:41<@Belugas>that is what i find silly
12:42<planetmaker>I see now what you mean Belugas :) (wrt "space")
12:42<Yorick>Belugas: it is not, show_all hides all grfs already in use ;)
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12:43<@Belugas>ok, as ai said, i did not looked a t the stuff compiled, just checking code
12:44<Yorick>you are ai?
12:44<@Belugas>ai is a mammal living on a tree
12:44<@Belugas>so, no, ain't an ai
12:44<planetmaker>lol :)
12:45<@Belugas>+ // ASSUME: this->width, this->height already contains the new window size <--- after that, LOTS of spaces/tags
12:45<Yorick>"ok, as ai said, i did not looked a t the stuff compiled, just checking code" --> "ok, as I said, I did not look at the stuff compiled, just checking code" ;)
12:46<@Belugas>lol :D
12:46<@Belugas>grammatically, i would not have been the ai either, ai would have been someone who said that ^_^
12:47<@Belugas>"Ok, as "AI" said"...
12:47<@Belugas>Ok, as Yorick said
12:48<planetmaker>one-line comments are preceeded by // rather than /* ... */, right?
12:48<Celestar>planetmaker: no, only when they come after code
12:49<planetmaker>oh, ok, Thx :)
12:51*peter1138 is home :D
12:51*Forked too!
12:52<planetmaker>welcome home, peter1138 :)
12:55<Celestar>peter1138: :D
12:57*planetmaker found the option "show spaces" and now removes them :)
12:57*peter1138 pulls
12:57<@peter1138>set list listchars=tab:,.,trail:%,extends:>,nbsp:_
12:57<@peter1138>Is in my .vimrc
12:57<@peter1138>Er, $, not %
12:57<@peter1138>Although I don't know what extends and nbsp are for ;)
12:58<Celestar>set listchars=tab:~.,trail:¬,precedes:>
12:58<Celestar>I got this
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12:58<@peter1138>SpComb, server details? :D
12:59<SpComb>peter1138: for our cargodest game?
12:59<@peter1138>is it h:1f819d6?
12:59<SpComb>, default port
13:00<@peter1138>Yay, nice bug :D
13:02<Celestar>ln: what the FUQQ is that?
13:03<ln>looks like a floppy drive to me
13:03<@peter1138>The real question is why...
13:03<Celestar> <= I think this is just awesome
13:06<planetmaker>:) Geekz, nerds,... all of ;)
13:07<Ammler>Celestar: the NAND signal was a nice idea...
13:07<Celestar>nand signal?
13:08<planetmaker>Belugas: thx for your time. Thanks to it, I learnt how to look for spaces :)
13:10<@peter1138>NAND signals are a stupid idea.
13:10<Celestar>Ammler: does it do anything useful?
13:10<Celestar>I mean for the *game*
13:10<Celestar>not the IC
13:10<Ammler>it would make those logic gates a little bit smaller :-)
13:11<Ammler>Mark: ?
13:11*Celestar wonders when someone will port NetBSD onto an opettd train network :P
13:11<Ammler>we have some games in our archive which uses NOT
13:13<Ammler>Celestar: check Mark's posts in that thread...
13:14<@peter1138>Programmable signals would be a better idea, to do whatever you want.
13:14<Celestar>does one *really* need programmable signals?
13:15<@peter1138>Not particularly.
13:15<Celestar>I think it's a workaround to a mismanaged network :P
13:15<Ammler>peter1138: with programmable signals, you cuold "program" NOT, I assume :-)
13:15<Celestar>Ammler: I've seen that
13:16*peter1138 rewrites his GRF...
13:18<Celestar>everytime I get a "no changes found" when pulling from peter1138's server I'm disappointed :P
13:20<Celestar>cu later
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13:40<Wolf01>uhm... some stuff is back... like nightlies?
13:40-!-Zahl [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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13:40<Wolf01>or the wiki
13:40<Yorick>it is
13:44<FR^2>Hmm. Seems the ai of the latest trunk still builds airports even if airplanes are deactivated and the number of airplanes per player is reduced to zero.
13:44<FR^2>Should I file a but about this?
13:45<Wolf01>oh, I have another bug
13:47<Wolf01>when building a tubular bridge over some bridgeheads the cars of a train travelling on the upper bridge seldom disappear like they are at the height of the bridge below
13:47<Wolf01>I have a picture
13:47<@peter1138>I have a website.
13:47<@peter1138>It's called
13:48<Wolf01>I have a website too
13:48<Wolf01> :D
13:48<FR^2>Only one? :D
13:48<Wolf01>no, 2 exactly
13:49<Wolf01>they were 3, but one failed and I'm not able anymore to modify it and bring it back to work
13:53<Wolf01> :D
13:53<@Rubidium>that's fs119
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14:05<Sacro>if you tell a train to reverse, and then hit go to depot, it forgets all about reversing and just speeds back up
14:05-!-Swallow [] has joined #openttd
14:05<Sacro>Bjarni: fixitfixitfixitfixit
14:06*Bjarni slaps Sacro
14:06<Prof_Frink>Sacro: itsfreesoftwarefixityourselfitsfreesoftwarefixityourselfitsfreesoftwarefixityourselfitsfreesoftwarefixityourselfitsfreesoftwarefixityourself
14:06<@Bjarni>I can only fix one thing at a time
14:06<Sacro>Bjarni: and break 3 :(
14:06<Sacro>oh cock
14:06<Sacro>4 people dead
14:08<Sacro>crashed trains show lost messages
14:08<Sacro>my tank engine is running forward one way
14:09<Sacro>then switching ends and running backwards the other
14:12<@Belugas>now that's Hell!! I've got no more power on my headphones and my wired ones are at home. Meaning I do not have ANY music at all!
14:13<@Bjarni><Sacro> Bjarni: and break 3 :( <-- you see... the point is that I will not break anything
14:13<@Bjarni>now if I break anything I will blame you for interrupting me :p
14:14<Sacro>Belugas: modprobe pcspkr
14:14<@peter1138>Let's phone Belugas and play music down it :D
14:15<Prof_Frink>Belugas: Sing.
14:16*Bjarni calls Belugas and puts on a Klingon opera
14:16<Sacro>peter1138: i like that idea
14:17<Forked>..if he has two phones you can even sort out the stereo
14:17<Forked>if one of you play the left channel.... and try to get it synced
14:17<@Belugas>i do :)
14:21<@peter1138>Bjarni, oh I just remembered about your conversation this morning.
14:21<@peter1138> < Perfect small computer with a big display...
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>i hate getting up early... you're tired the entire day and don't get _anything_ done...
14:23<@peter1138>I hate getting up late. It makes me tired and there's no time left to do anything.
14:23<@Bjarni>I think that conversation took place just before I went to bed....
14:23<@Bjarni>not morning :p
14:23<@peter1138>It was after midnight GMT, therefore it was morning.
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>well, i learned that i have two programs, that i need to compile with the exact same options, but one won't compile with -mno-cygwin and the other not with -mcygwin
14:24<@peter1138>But... 4 AA batteries!
14:25<@Bjarni>that's outdated
14:25<@Bjarni>use fuelcells
14:25<Forked>cold fusion
14:26<@peter1138>We ought to do something with the DOS/Windows flag for NewGRF...
14:27<@peter1138>I don't know...
14:27<@peter1138>It is a prime cause of desyncs.
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>we should auto-convert DOS grfs on load, and deprecate the use of DOS newgrfs
14:28<@peter1138>But DOS GRFs have more colours.
14:28<DaleStan>Desyncs? or just cannot-join issues?
14:28<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: opposite :-)
14:29<@peter1138>DaleStan, desyncs.
14:29<Ammler>peter1138: I played a long time with dos grfs, yesterday, just had the "ugly" blue but not deyncs...
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>DaleStan: server has windows grfs and windows newgrfs, client has dos grfs and windows newgrfs, he can join because md5 of newgrfs match, but desyncs because the newgrfs deactivate themselves
14:30<@peter1138>Ammler, DOS GRFs by themselves won't be a problem.
14:30<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, thanks :)
14:30<DaleStan>Ah. niiiiiice.
14:30<@peter1138>On the other hand, most people use Windows GRFs, so the lack of colours probably doesn't matter...
14:31<@peter1138>It would give MB another thing to complain about :)
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>it's only like 2 colours that get mapped to similar colours, or not?
14:31-!-flowOver [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:31<@Belugas>i'd say more like 8
14:31<DaleStan>All the pinks, ...
14:32<@peter1138>MB had a list.
14:32<@peter1138>In a thread somewhere...
14:32<frosch123>5 colors iirc
14:32<@peter1138>That's the value I was thinking.
14:32<@Belugas>it's on my SD key :(
14:33<frosch123>dos indices 20,21,28,58,6A,88 are not present in the windows palette
14:33<frosch123>so, actually 6
14:33<DaleStan>I count 18 pinks in the Windows palette, but some of them may be in both palettes. 9 are tagged as "WinAPI".
14:34<frosch123>pink is no problem, as the original grfs do not contain pink
14:34<hylje>where does the pink come from, then
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>when the bees and the flowers...
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14:40<@peter1138>That's the one.
14:41<@peter1138>Are some of the pink slots used for palette animation?
14:41<@Belugas>none of them, iirc
14:42<Ammler>you would see that here, afaik:
14:42<@peter1138>Mmm, 9 colours in that image.
14:43<Ammler>the "???"
14:43<@Belugas>in gfx.cpp, there is the DoPaletteAnimation that deals with it
14:43<@Belugas>(i think it's teh proper name)
14:44<@Belugas>is starts at palette entry 217,
14:44<@Belugas>and add 36 or 28 depending if we're on dos or winwos
14:44<@Belugas>so it actually stops before the 2nd pink block
14:45<@Belugas>(figures are from memory...)
14:46<@peter1138>How the hell can I do tunnels...
14:46*Belugas will not show peter1138 how his son is doing them :)
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>by making them the same as bridges...
14:47-!-Celestar [] has joined #openttd
14:47<Celestar>SpComb: any news?
14:47<frosch123>peter1138: like tramtracks?
14:48<@peter1138>Problem is rail types have their own style of 'portal'
14:48<Celestar>peter1138: what about the spectator problem, what does cause it?
14:48<@peter1138>Which conflicts with the goal of being landscape sprite agnostic.
14:49<@peter1138>Celestar, GetPlayer(PLAYER_SPECTATOR), to be literal.
14:49<frosch123>use you 'default station type' also for tunnels?
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>well, bridges have the ability to look different depending on railtype, don't they?
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>so tunnels would get that same behaviour
14:50<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, I said that :)
14:50<@peter1138>Oh, bridges...
14:50<@peter1138>No, bridges don't.
14:50<@peter1138>But tunnels *do*
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>well, newgrf bridges i was speaking of
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, there should really be different tunnel (entrance) types...
14:52<Celestar>frosch123: you there?
14:52<@peter1138> < all agnostic, except the tunnels :o
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14:52<frosch123>pong Celestar
14:52<hylje>agnostic of what
14:53<Celestar>frosch123: what was the function you said I should look at for cargodest?
14:53<frosch123>Vehicle::CopyVehicleConfigAndStatistics() <- everything that cannot be done through commands needs to go there
14:54<frosch123>everything that can be done through commands shall go into CopyHeadSpecificThings
14:55<Celestar>frosch123: within "CopyHeadSpecificThings" ... are the two vehicles already fully configured (i.e. refits and orders)
14:55<frosch123>maybe you would also need TransferCargo()
14:55<frosch123>Celestar: Those three functions are called only once during DC_EXEC, not during cost estimation
14:55<frosch123>i.e. they do the things which are not undo-able
14:56<Celestar>frosch123: cool
14:56<frosch123>no, that applies only to the lower part of CopyHeadSpecificThings()
14:57<Celestar>frosch123: but the old vehicle is still intact in CopyHeadSpecificThings() riht?
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14:57<@peter1138>So does it all work properly now? ;)
14:57<frosch123>but of couse not in the original consist
14:57<Celestar>frosch123: hm .. nope, the wagons aren't
14:57<Celestar>I need the full consists
14:57<frosch123>then you are in trouble
14:58<frosch123>what happens, when the player moves wagons around in the depot?
14:58<@peter1138>Hmm, we just need to make our calls either side of the autoreplace.
14:58-!-DJNekkid [] has joined #openttd
14:58<@peter1138>(Same with moving things in a depot)
14:58<Celestar>I'll check in a bit
14:59<Celestar>peter1138: moving things a depot works
14:59<Celestar>peter1138: as autoreplace uses the other commands, it should work automagically
14:59<@peter1138>I hope :)
14:59<@peter1138>Seems to.
15:00<frosch123>what is about TransferCargo() ?
15:01<frosch123>Celestar: Note, that moving vehicles in depot and moving them back to the original order must result in the same state, else it will desync
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15:02<@peter1138>frosch123, does the same happen on all clients?
15:02<Celestar>frosch123: I have a situation where a planned autoreplace doesn't happen. What might cause this?
15:02<frosch123>no, it is done once more on the client that issues the CmdMassReplace (or similiar)
15:03<frosch123>Celestar: It will construct the new chain, also share the orders, but at the end of that it will sell the new vehicles, move the old vehicles back to their original position, and restore random seeds
15:04<frosch123>note: building vehicles needs random
15:04-!-Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
15:04<Celestar>frosch123: I see. yet the replace is NOT happening here for some reason :o
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15:05<Celestar>he stupid me
15:06<@peter1138>That could be a problem.
15:06<@peter1138>Or not.
15:06<@peter1138>Celestar, was order-order important?
15:07<Celestar>peter1138: nope
15:07<@peter1138>edge order, basically.
15:07<Celestar>peter1138: shouldn't be
15:07<@peter1138>Then it should be fine.
15:07*peter1138 still considers the tunnel issue :o
15:07<Celestar>peter1138: if it is, we can still force a sort
15:07<Celestar>hm autoreplace works correctly with cargodest from what I can see
15:08<frosch123>Celestar: try the manual MassReplace button in network
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15:08<Celestar>frosch123: er? "manual MAssReplace" ?
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm... at what point does a prototype count as "used" wrt whether you get offered one again
15:08<frosch123>the bottom most button in depot
15:08<Celestar>frosch123: can you poke me tomorrow to do this?
15:09<frosch123>tomorrow? you mean around 18:00 when I might be back here?
15:09<Celestar>that's ok by me
15:10<Celestar>so what do we still need to do
15:11<Celestar>basically mostly the cargo view
15:11<Celestar>and another code review, right Rubidium ? ;)
15:12*peter1138 ponders doing one.
15:12<ln>attention, i have an IMPORTANT PATCH.
15:12<@Bjarni>you fixed some indenting?
15:12<ln>Bjarni: nope.
15:12<Celestar>peter1138: I think we should first do the total cargo view and other minor things, don't you agree?
15:13<frosch123>what does it do, does it patch dorpsgek to automatically kick everyone typing "english only"?
15:13<ln>here it is, fixes bug FS#ln:
15:13<Celestar>peter1138: we also have the two thingies on the TODO ... but do we really want them?
15:13<@Bjarni>ln: it fixes bug FS#ln???
15:14<@peter1138>ln, it is to dutchies :(
15:14<frosch123>FS#ln is quite nasty, I got already fixed multiple times
15:14<ln>Bjarni: you're not familiar with the bug number FS#ln? it's not even my invention.
15:15<@peter1138>-Fix [FS#AmmlersStillTooLazy]:
15:15<Celestar>ln: what the HELL is the difference between those?
15:15*Bjarni fixes Ammler
15:15<+glx>Celestar: than != then
15:16<ln>come on, i've managed to get a similar patch committed within a few minutes back in the days when even Darkvater and Tron were here.
15:16<ln>by MiHaMiX then
15:17-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:17<Celestar>I gotta go
15:18<@Belugas>ln, i'll do that tonigh
15:18<@Belugas>if i remember to do so
15:18<Ammler>Celestar: then=denn and than=als ?
15:19-!-GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:19<Yorick>Ammler: then=dan and than=dan in dutch
15:19<ln>Ammler: then=dann
15:19<ln>Belugas: great
15:20<mortal>than=als in german?
15:20<Yorick>mortal: quite...
15:20<Kloopy>haha. ln needs an award for "Most awesome patch of the Month"
15:21<mortal>that's the best diff I've ever seen
15:21<Celestar>Ammler: in comparisons, always "than", never " then"
15:21-!-Celestar [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:21<Kloopy>This is more important than YAPP or cargodests!
15:22<ln>my previous similar patch seems to be from december 2004.
15:22<@Belugas>guys, every bit counts
15:22<mortal>ln, link?
15:22<Kloopy>Do you have that diff file, ln?
15:22<@Belugas>so id' say that is' about the same as changing color to colour and such
15:23<mortal>nope belugas
15:23<ln>mortal, Kloopy: sure,
15:23<Kloopy>Do all the comments and code use "colour" then?
15:23<mortal>belugas, color is US spelling, colour is UK
15:23<oh>+// Vehicles of 2 years do easier meet this setting than vehicles
15:23<mortal>then is one word, than is a completely different one
15:23<@Belugas>it's nt there yet, but it's oa work in progress
15:24<@Belugas>mortal, we do the british way
15:24<Yorick>mortal: in dutch it isn't
15:24<oh>there's still more to fix on that patchline
15:24<Kloopy>Vehicles that are 2 years old more easily meet this setting than vehicles that are one year old
15:24<mortal>heh, I guess that covers vocab as well?
15:25<mortal>gas stop => petrol station, whatever => car park, etc
15:25<ln>never include two separate fixes in the same patch.
15:25<@Belugas>ln is ONCE again, right :)
15:26*Kloopy giggles
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>mortal: neither petrol stations nor car parks are in the game (afaik)
15:26-!-GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
15:27<Kloopy>sidewalks -> paths
15:28<mortal>Eddi|zuHause, you never know about comments
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes... "grep 'petrol station' src/ -r"
15:31<mortal>awwwww, just pick on the guy who isn't compiling his own nightly builds :(
15:31<ln>there was one potential than-fix missing from my patch, because i had hard time figuring out what the hell was the sentence supposed to mean.
15:31<ln>src/network/core/packet.cpp: /* If size was sooner to zero then the string in the stream * skip till the \0, so than packet can be read out correctly for the rest */
15:32<mortal>clearly s/than/that/, but the first part eh
15:32<mortal>can't you blame it?
15:32<Yorick>I think all is written by TB
15:32<ln>i can, but I'm not Tron.
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>i'd guess it was True{Light,Brain}
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>mortal: Tron was the guy who was also called "code police"
15:35<@peter1138>Nothing wrong with Code Police.
15:35<mortal>I guess I oughta fetch the nightly code
15:35<mortal>and set up some cronjob
15:35<ln>peter1138: But for Tron the priority was to find out who did what wrong, fixing it was only second in importance.
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>fixing things is not the job of the QM guy
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>finding things that are wrong is...
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15:39<mortal>configuring trunk
15:39<Noldo>ln: how do you know his priorities?
15:40<ln>Noldo: by observing.
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15:41<@Belugas>Tron was very good at fixing broken stuff, and finding who did it is just part of the solution. Learning process. Like you do not make the same mistake twice
15:42<@Belugas>agreed he was not the type to send flower with the pot, just the pot.
15:43<@Belugas>but everyone has a personality
15:43<@Belugas>and i know mine is not an easy one either
15:44<ln>some have two
15:45<frosch123>but your reflexes on the R word are not as distinct as MB's on the O word :p
15:46<@Belugas>Let say i just can't stand when users are using the R word to put pressure on adding this or that feature
15:46<@Belugas>so freakingly stupid
15:47<@Belugas>it's not an argument and i hpe it will never be
15:47<@Belugas>as to what drives MB on his Holy Crusade, well... i do not even wnat to know
15:50<fonso>Forgive my curiosity ... I might be able to guess the R word, but what is the O word then?
15:50<frosch123>in which channel are you?
15:51<@peter1138>R word?
15:51*fonso blushes
15:51<fonso>that's too obvious
15:51<mortal>make & pray
15:53<@Belugas>obvious? naaaaa.. not the right word ;)
15:55<@peter1138>Prof_Frink, go and get me another beer? ta
15:55*peter1138 reads back through the engine pool suggestions thread
15:56<frosch123>cool, tell me when you found a 'suggestion'
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>i'd assume 80% of the content there is flaming :)
16:01<ln>src/terraform_cmd.cpp: * This affects all corners with a manhatten distance smaller than MAX_TILE_HEIGHT to one of the initial 4 corners.
16:01<frosch123>reminds, me MB told he had send you a PM about that topic and complained you never replied
16:03<frosch123>s/, me/me ,/
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>ln: that's a correct "than"...
16:06-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:06<ln>Eddi|zuHause: yes, but what is this manhatten distance?
16:07-!-Reemo [] has quit [Quit: - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik]
16:07<@peter1138>frosch123, to me?
16:07<frosch123>yes, I thought you accidently pressed 'delete' or something like that :p
16:07<Yorick>xdiff+ydiff for diagonal comparisons
16:08<@peter1138>Hmm, nope. I've never seen one from him.
16:08<@peter1138>And I've got almost everything going back to 2005 ;)
16:08<fonso>your eyes' built in spam filter works well
16:09<@peter1138>Not really, as I did request it.
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16:10<frosch123>"Tja. Peter hat das Feature vorher eben nicht ausreichend getestet und er hat es auch nicht für nötig gehalten, uns .grf-Entwickler dazu anzuhören. Ich selber habe ihm eine ausführliche Doku geschrieben aber nie eine Antwort darauf erhalten. Und ich sehe auch jetzt noch nicht, dass entsprechend unseren Anregungen entsprechende Änderungen vorgenommen werden. :|"
16:10<@peter1138>Unless he posted it while I was away, saw it was unread for a while, and then deleted it himself. I think that was before it was done, though.
16:10<@peter1138>Not helpful :p
16:10<@peter1138>orudge! ping!
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16:13<@orudge>peter1138! pong!
16:13<@peter1138>Where did my PM go!
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16:15<@peter1138>Hmm well, there was no conclusion to that thread...
16:15<@peter1138>Apart from Rubidium wanting something totally generic :)
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16:16<frosch123>IIRC all grf authors that participated (i.e. mb and pikka) wanted to disallow any modifications by other grfs not explicitly mentioned in the original grf, i.e. making both the add-on sets of both authors invalid
16:17<@orudge>peter1138: I don't know!
16:17<@orudge>let me know if you find it!
16:17<@orudge>have you checked down the settee?
16:17<@peter1138>frosch123, but pikka wanted it extremely simple.
16:18<frosch123>well, I would also believe pikka to update the original grf, so it knows of the modifiing one
16:23<frosch123>IIRC the easiest solution was to add a 'public'/'protected' property to every vehicle, that tells whether a vehicle can be combined with every vehicle from every grf or only with those from the original grf or its children (those using "GRF ID overrides for engines (11)")
16:24<frosch123>conbined with the 0xFFFF ID in the attach-wagon-callback
16:24<+glx>none of them replied to my suggestion
16:25<frosch123>did anyone replied to a suggestion of someone else ?
16:26<@Rubidium>ooh... nice session
16:26<@Belugas>join the club!!
16:26<Tim>I'm just testing the CargoDest-Patch, it's awesome!
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>it sure is :)
16:27<+glx>the only reference to my post is by OzTransLtd (but I don't like him)
16:27<flaske>hey, guys, is there no large textbox input widget?
16:28<@Belugas>the comment or the guy? ^_^
16:28<+glx>the guy (and the idea he suggested in the comment)
16:28<@Belugas>flaske, no, not really
16:28<Tim>One Question...: If i connect a coal mine to a powerplant and transport the coal to it, and then connect the mine to another power plant, there will be coal generated for each of the powerplants. However, is the TOTAL OUTPUT of the Coal Mine now higher, or is the coal which was in the beginning only transported to one powerplant now divided between the two of them?
16:28<flaske>its divided
16:29<@Belugas>granted, glx. It's a bit like "whatever is required, don't care"
16:29<frosch123>glx: IMO it is problematic as it changes the meaning of the 'vehicle id' variable depending on another variable. I.e. it somewhat breaks existing grf.
16:29<frosch123>So something like grf version 8 would be needed.
16:29<@Belugas>flaske, divided??? you are not making sens
16:29<flaske>i was replying to Tim's question
16:30<@Belugas>indeed frosch123.
16:30<@Belugas>ok flaske
16:31<flaske>so, textboxes are a little tricky?
16:31<@Belugas>in fact, we've "discovered" today that the bridge cost in nfo is only at max 255, while it is a uint16 in Open. Withouth adding a cost2, which cannot be done, according to Oskar. so a new version would be a good thing
16:32<Tim>Hm, then maybe take that as a suggestion for your cool patch :) I think the total output of the coal mine should be higher, if the coal is transported to multiple powerplants - else this system does not make too much sense, as connecting a second powerplant does not give you any advantages, but only disadvantages, like having more track, trains and stuff to manage
16:32<Ammler>the "big" grf authors ignoring that it would be nice to add just a simple GRF like the empty engine for eyecandy...
16:32<@Belugas>flaske, it's just that we do not need large input widget...
16:32<+glx>Tim: that's totally unrelated to cargodest
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>Tim: it does make sense when the power station has a stockpile limit
16:33<flaske>Belugas I see, but I kinda did just now. Was going to make a "mission description" for the mission objectives im working on, in the scenario editor
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16:34<frosch123><Belugas> in fact, we've "discovered" today that the bridge cost in nfo is only at max 255, <- the 'traditional' sollution would be to add another byte property for the high byte
16:34<@Belugas>flaske: ho... well... that would be something that your patch will have to bring in ;)
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>flaske: you might want to make a grf spec instead, so people can provide the strings via grf
16:34<flaske>hehe, yeah thanks tho :)
16:34<@Belugas>frosch123, granted, but FF is already an accepted value
16:35<flaske>thanks Eddi|zuHause, good idea
16:35<frosch123>no, not an extended byte
16:35<frosch123>i.e. like vehicle weight
16:35<frosch123>24 (c) B High byte of vehicle weight, weight will be prop.24*256+prop.16
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>"adding a cost2 [...] cannot be done, according to Oskar."
16:37*GoneWacko slaps Sionide and runs off giggling
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16:37<frosch123>Well, I would expect Oskar to have a lot more clue about TTDP than me, but if it cannot be done with a 'high byte' property, why should it be possible by incrementing the grf version?
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16:42<ln>coming soon on this channel: commit of the patch of the month. stay tuned.
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>"Nicht erläuterte Details können direkt im Sourcecode gefunden werden." <- that's a totally great statement :p
16:42<@Belugas>damned.. he's gone
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>("Details that are not described [in the documentation] can be read from the source code.")
16:45-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:46<ln>Eddi|zuHause: sounds almost as good as the draft of some finnish idiot's doctoral thesis, where e.g. "Google et al." was used as a reference for some claims.
16:47<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: sounds like what Brianetta once said. It was something like "the source code is like a manual, except it has all details and fewer pictures"
16:48<@Bjarni> <-- well... close enough :)
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16:50<@Bjarni> <-- wow. That one is great :D
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>... we lost him again to qdb :(
16:50<Sacro>nice one BR
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16:51<@Belugas>bye guys
16:51<@Bjarni>bye Belugas
16:52<@Bjarni>I saw a beluga whale on the news today. Some Chinese boy was sitting on the back of it during some show or something
16:52<Sacro>was his dinner
16:53<@Bjarni>it was his income
16:53-!-mucht_home [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:53<@Bjarni>he was 4 years old and had done that for a year
16:53<+glx>Bjarni: a beluga is not a whale
16:53<Sacro>one whale? a year/
16:53<+glx>it's a dolphin
16:53<Sacro>has he not read Moby Dick
16:53<@peter1138>James Whale...
16:58-!-mortal [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:00*peter1138 ponders this bug
17:01<@Rubidium> <- you could tennis with it
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>the fly-swatter of the 21st century :=
17:05<@peter1138>Hmm, half-tile foundations drawn properly... on land.
17:06-!-FR^2 [] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...]
17:12<@Bjarni> <-- the beluga whale/dolphin. Right now it refuse to load for me though :(
17:14<+glx>works here
17:15<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it's a patented "bug frier"
17:15<@Bjarni>then you can listen to what they say about it and enlighten me. It stalled half way though it so I haven't seen the whole thing yet
17:16<@Bjarni>it looks cute though
17:16<+glx>I'm not very good at english listening
17:17<@Bjarni>now it started and stalled again
17:17<@Bjarni>at the same place as last time
17:18<@Bjarni>"he asked his grandmother if he could swim with it".... and that's the end of it >_<
17:20<@Bjarni>and now the rest of it appeared in a few sec
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17:32<@peter1138>Okay, I fixed the crashing bug... by removing a bit of code...
17:35<fjb>Removing all the code fixes all the bugs.
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17:37<@Bjarni>banning everybody in here will remove the bad ideas
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>i have my doubts that this will actually work :p
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17:45<@peter1138>Gah, stupid sprites
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17:52<@peter1138>It's now drawing them at the correct place... but under the foundation :(
17:53<fjb>It hides them so nobody sees the mistakes it makes.
17:58<@peter1138>I guess I need to use AddSortable everywhere :o
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18:01<@Rubidium>just cache the whole thing with foundations and all and use that as single sprite ;)
18:03<@peter1138>Oh for fucks sake...
18:04<@peter1138>Using AddSortable, it's at the right place... but above the white/red selection square :o
18:08<@peter1138>Unless I need AddChildSpriteToFoundation :o
18:13<Prof_Frink>peter1138: They rang last orders.
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18:15<@peter1138>Oh, that's no good.
18:15<@peter1138>If I draw it 8 pixels too low, it shows above the foundation.
18:15<@peter1138>If I draw it in the right place, it is below the foundation.
18:15<@peter1138>Stupid sorter?
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18:32<dragonhorseboy>do some trains have like 2+ articulated sets in one consist? (rather than being one long single set throughly)
18:38<@Bjarni>you mean if it's possible that an articulated engine can be longer than two units?
18:39<@Bjarni>or if two articulated engines can be put in the same train?
18:39<@Bjarni>you know answering a question is way easier if you understand the question itself ;)
18:41<dragonhorseboy>heh sorry I meant just articulated cars alone
18:41<dragonhorseboy>(independent locomotive that is)
18:41<@peter1138>Bjarni, dragonhorseboy never talks about the game, only real or model railways.
18:42*Sacro just lost the game D:
18:43<valhallasw>peter1138: well, try drawing it 4 pixels too low? :D
18:43<dragonhorseboy>sacro :p
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>dragonhorseboy: if you are talking about real railways, then that happens very often...
18:47<@peter1138>AddChildSpriteToFoundation() works... just... ugly :o
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18:49<dragonhorseboy>eddi hm thanks .. I could imagine that having several short sets than one single long one probably makes it easier to repair them because of not having to can the whole train over one bad axle. dunno much myself tho ^_^
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18:49<Eddi|zuHause>dragonhorseboy: some ICE3 go in double most of the way, and then get split into 2 for the last bit, so they end up in different cities
18:51<dragonhorseboy>ah hmm yeah that kind of mode works too
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>or 425/435/435/425 consists may be driven in double traction, to increase capacity during high load times
18:51<dragonhorseboy>hm on related note I do know some north america trains had one/several rdc's on the tail that would get dropped off at certain stops to go their own way
18:51<dragonhorseboy>(not articulated but still)
18:54<dragonhorseboy>hm well thanks eddi
18:55*peter1138 > sleep
18:55<dragonhorseboy>bye peter
18:56-!-SpComb was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Don't poke me]
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>dragonhorseboy:üge~BR+425.html <- that's a 425 (4-part articulated vehicle). and as you can see, there's a second one attached to it
18:58<dragonhorseboy>hmm ty
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18:58<SpComb>taking it personally, eh
18:58<SpComb>kicking someone is no trivial matter :(
19:01<Eddi|zuHause> <- or here. view from the side
19:05<@Bjarni> <-- here is an articulated train of 8 units
19:05<@Bjarni>they really make those
19:05<@Bjarni>but naturally I can't find a side view :(
19:07<Lakie>Each unit looks fairly small though
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>that branch underneath the train doesn't look very used
19:07<Lakie>(Compared to say a carrage)
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19:08<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, looks like it's not longer than a 425
19:09<@Bjarni> <-- this is as good as it gets
19:10<@Bjarni><Lakie> Each unit looks fairly small though <-- yeah, one set of 8 units is supposed to stop at the marker for a 4 wagon long train xD
19:10<@Bjarni>meaning each unit if half the length of the train they replace
19:11<@Bjarni>but I guess they have to have fairly small units since each unit only has one axle
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>that's about what i meant
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>one axle? no double axles?
19:12<@Bjarni>the end unit in one end has two
19:12<Lakie>Durely the last one would have a double or something?
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound like a too bright idea
19:12<@Bjarni>but only in one end
19:12<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound like a too bright idea <-- why not?
19:12<@Bjarni>they only derailed once due to the low number of axles
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19:13<@Bjarni>the train was rather new at the time and then they changed something
19:13<@Bjarni>and ever since it just worked
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>single axles are known to provide less comfort while driving
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>the transmission of forces is more direct, than when you have double axles
19:14<@Bjarni>it's also known to be a financial good solution as wear and resistance is lower
19:15<@Bjarni>but yes usually I prefer regular bogie wagons
19:15<@Bjarni>when it comes to comfort
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>the 425 has double axles as connector between parts (like TGV)
19:17<@Bjarni>depending on track condition it could be a better solution
19:20<@Bjarni>I just made it sound like we have good tracks
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>i did not really understand that statement either :p
19:24<@Bjarni> <-- I see what you mean
19:26-!-Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:26<@Bjarni> <-- (same as the first one). The trains in the background has the same wheel configuration as 425 (and consist of 4 units). The difference is that they have a top speed of 180 km/h
19:26-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:26<@Bjarni>and goes from 0 to 100 km/h in 48 sec
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19:50*dragonhorseboy pokes sacro
19:50<dragonhorseboy>thats three quit/enter already
19:50<Sacro>i killed x-chat
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20:05<@Belugas>compilage time
20:05<@Belugas>testifying the beautifying
20:06<Sacro>def get_tomorrow_date():
20:06<Sacro> time.sleep(86400)
20:06<Sacro> return time.localtime()
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20:33<adam->Good morning. I'm looking to get/use the Cargo Destination patch. On the forum it says I should come here and ask for directions, so here I am...
20:33<+glx>can you compile?
20:34<adam->I have Mercurial too
20:34<+glx>it's there
20:35<+glx>you'll need boost too
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21:20<@Belugas>i think i've never seen as much buzz around a patch than that one :)
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21:29<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r14104 /trunk/ (13 files in 4 dirs):
21:29<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Feature: Add a window for waypoints, allowing to view all the trains having the selected waypoint in their orders.
21:29<CIA-5>OpenTTD: Changing its name is also supported from the same new window.
21:29<CIA-5>OpenTTD: Gui based on work done by Satyap, on FS#2025.
21:33-!-fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
21:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r14105 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs):
21:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix: Some typos that are more grammatical errors, as it seems.
21:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: Provided by ln
21:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: I've added a little fix on currency.cpp too, why not :)
21:51-!-Sacro is now known as Sacro|Here
21:53<@Belugas>hehe... been at home, i can use your links, Sacro|Here :D
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22:12<Sacro|Here>Belugas: you there :\
22:12-!-Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
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22:18<Sacro|Here>Anyone around? :|
22:19<@Belugas>i am
22:19<@Belugas>browsing the forums
22:19<@Belugas>and you?
22:19<Sacro|Here>Belugas: i have a self supplying food processing plant
22:19<Sacro|Here>it produces goods
22:19<Sacro|Here>yet nothing is going in
22:19<@Belugas>lucky you :)
22:20<@Belugas>magical industry!
22:22<@Belugas>can you reproduce?
22:22<Sacro|Here>not sure
22:22<Sacro|Here>can you check out Brianetta's standard server?
22:22<Sacro|Here> is needed
22:22<Sacro|Here>and 0.6.2
22:23<@Belugas>no, i cannot right now
22:23<Sacro|Here>mine is producting 580T of goods a month
22:23<Sacro|Here>with nothing going in
22:24<Sacro|Here>so either they are breeding animals themself
22:24<Sacro|Here>or using the population of the local town
22:26<Sacro|Here>Belugas: it's running out now :(
22:27<Sacro|Here>something is slowly trickling in
22:27<Sacro|Here>it's getting provided
22:27<Sacro|Here>yet there's no stations in the area supplying
22:40<@Belugas>there are NO BUHS in Openttd!!
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 20 00:00:36 2008