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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-08-20

---Logopened Wed Aug 20 00:00:36 2008
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01:57<adam->If I find a bug in the Cargo Destination patch, where would I file that at?
02:00<dih>tell Celestar and/or peter1138
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02:38<Celestar>morning
02:38<Forked>moornin
02:39<@peter1138>Hi.
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02:54<Celestar>hey peter1138
02:54<Celestar>any news?
02:56<@peter1138>Yeah, I resolved my sprite issues but in an ugly way :o
02:57<Celestar>:(
02:57<Celestar>I've had an idea for a more useful station view mode
02:58<Celestar>especially on very large and busy maps
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03:07<Celestar>so far, I'm not having much luck :P
03:08-!-Brainstorm [~Brainstor@82-171-5-111.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:08*Forked is high on coffee
03:08<planetmaker>morning
03:09<@peter1138>What's the idea?
03:10<Celestar>peter1138: having a tree-like view
03:10<@peter1138>Tree-like?
03:11<@peter1138>Make a mockup ;)
03:12<Celestar>already doing so ;)
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03:17<@peter1138>Crap, committed too much :/
03:18<@peter1138>Just need to do bridges/stations/waypoints/depots properly...
03:19<@peter1138>And level crossings :o
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03:25<Celestar>peter1138: SpComb: http://www.fvfischer.de/treeview.png
03:26<planetmaker>looks interesting, Celestar :)
03:27<Celestar>not *quite* perfect
03:29<planetmaker>it would be even better, if it could be graphically enhanced like in some forums with thread indentation:
03:30<Celestar>enhanced, how?
03:30<Celestar>first of all the order is not correct, that's the worse problem
03:30<planetmaker>main
03:30<planetmaker>|-1st dest
03:30<planetmaker>| |-1.1st dest
03:30<planetmaker>| |-1.2nd dest
03:30<planetmaker>|-2nd dest
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03:32<Celestar>well, that'll be easy to add later
03:32<Celestar>I also need an entry how many passengers actually LEAVE
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03:39<@peter1138>So a new sorter is needed.
03:39<Celestar>nah
03:40<Celestar>I'm just building up the list correctly
03:40<Celestar>the sorter would have a shitload of work to do
03:40<Celestar>because it doesn't know anything about the logic behind it
03:41<Celestar>I'm looping through an std::list with some iterator. What's the easiest way to insert an element AFTER the current iterator?
03:41<Celestar>list::insert does it before, right?
03:43<blathijs>Celestar: ++ and then insert? :-)
03:46<SpComb>Celestar: that looks interesting, but without seeing the stations/routes it's a bit hard to understand exactly what it's saying
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03:48<Celestar>SpComb: "seeing the stations/routes" ?
03:49<SpComb>Celestar: I mean, looking at that text, the meaning of the nested stuff isn't intuatively clear
03:54<planetmaker>IMO the only question remaining is: are the numbers of a lower level the cumulative number (that station and all who want to transfer there) or is it the number only for that station?
03:56-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-108-163.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
03:57<Celestar>planetmaker: cumulative
03:57<Celestar>can change this however, or will possibly display both
03:57<planetmaker>:)
03:57<Celestar>SpComb: you won't get a fully graphical representation in the first iteration, unless you code it :D
03:58<Celestar>note to self: writing a statement after break; is kinda st00pid
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04:00<SpComb>so should that be read as "1431 passengers are taking the train which will next stop at Melstadt, 191 of those will then get onto the train that next stops at Fürustenberg, and then 109 of those will get onto the train/bus/whatever that next stops at Fürstenberg Central"?
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04:01<SpComb>specifically, I'm a bit confused as to how those work for trains that stop at multiple stations, is that station there the one that the passengers get off at, or the one that the train next stops at?
04:02<planetmaker>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2238 <-- currently I store the last bridge being built in a global var. Is it better advisable to store it somehow int the BridgeBuildWindow?
04:02<planetmaker>I refrained from doing so as I try to avoid drawing that window :)
04:03<Celestar>SpComb: the gui has no access to the information, and neither has the routing system, SpComb
04:04<Celestar>SpComb: the routing system knows that to get from A to B it has to go via C. It doesn't know whether there's a direct train running the route or not.
04:05<SpComb>if the passengers at station A want to go to station B, and there's one train that goes A-D-C, and then one that goes C-B, what do the passengers show up as?
04:05<SpComb>"xxx passengers going via D to B"?
04:05<Celestar>they'll show up in D, C and B
04:05<Celestar>meh.
04:06<Celestar>can't list::insert work as list::push_back :S
04:06<SpComb>"show up in"? I'm just talking about the passengers that are currently at station A
04:11<Celestar>SpComb: you've got to think in adjacencies
04:11<Celestar>SpComb: cargo *only* knows about the next hop
04:13<Celestar>and it's destination of course
04:18<@peter1138>There is no decision about where to transfer, hence there is no "transfer at" view :/
04:20<SpComb>right, so a passenger at station A only knows (D, B)?
04:21<@peter1138>It knows B, and it knows to get to B it needs to go via D
04:21<SpComb>the other thing I was talking about was being able to see what passengers you have on a train, currently it only shows you the source (per-wagon) - what's the feasability of that?
04:21<Celestar>peter1138's working on that one already
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04:23<@peter1138>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=96757 < Vehicle steps on that must be horrible...
04:24<Celestar>"vehicle steps" ?
04:24<@peter1138>Game units.
04:24<@peter1138>16 to a tile...
04:25<Celestar>peter1138: I'm rather worried about the 45° turns than about the 16 units per tile
04:26<@peter1138>That too.
04:26<Brianetta>You only need to show start and destination
04:26<Brianetta>The ticket says "all routes+"
04:27<Brianetta>and the passenger is assumed to make his own way across the platform (:
04:27<Celestar>in Germany, the tickets rarely sais "all routes" :P
04:27<Celestar>it usually sais: Munich - Hamburg: via: NUE:WUE:FUL:HAN
04:28<Celestar>or something like that :P
04:28*Celestar curses
04:28<Celestar>Why can't I get this order right
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04:40<Celestar>peter1138: that screeny, is that real or photoshopped?
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04:42<Celestar>:o 256x128 pixels tile size
04:42<@peter1138>I think it's real.
04:43<Celestar>that's 64 times as big as today
04:43<@peter1138>I think we've already stated that we don't really want the extra zoom levels :)
04:43<Celestar>peter1138: one zoom level would be cool, *maybe* a second one
04:43<Celestar>but eight?
04:44<@peter1138>I agree on one zoom level.
04:44<planetmaker>google OpenTTD ;)
04:44<Ammler>maybe zoom levels only in paused mode :-)
04:45<planetmaker>just like google maps :P
04:45<@peter1138>One major problem of the patch for that is it only supports 32bpp mode.
04:45<Celestar>peter1138: I don't *really* see that as problem
04:46<@peter1138>I do.
04:46<@peter1138>I want to be able to zoom in once on the original graphics too.
04:46<Celestar>peter1138: just thinking, trg1r.pcx is about 4MB, if we have 64 times the sprite size, that'll be 256MB of the main sprites alone
04:46<@peter1138>*nod*
04:46<Celestar>we'd need 64 times the sprite cache
04:47<Brianetta>or just swap in the sprites as needed
04:47<Brianetta>You'd need a monster machine for that
04:47<@peter1138>Celestar, by "only supports 32bpp mode" I mean "crashes if 8bpp is used"
04:48<Celestar>peter1138: that is *nod* good (=
04:48<Celestar>er..
04:48<Celestar>not even :P
04:49<@peter1138>I solved my ugly code problem by adding a new function called DrawGroundSpriteWithOffset()
04:49<@peter1138>Hmm, probably I could just add the offset to DrawGroundSprite and default it to 0
04:49<Celestar>*nod*
04:49<@peter1138>Still, it works :)
04:49-!-Amixbook [~Amix2008@106.80-203-44.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
04:50<@peter1138>http://svn.bucks.net/~petern/zwrong.png < That is fixed :D
04:51<Celestar>peter1138: what am I seeing?
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04:52<@peter1138>Track pieces in the wrong place, heh...
04:52<planetmaker>horizontal looks misplaced...
04:52<@peter1138>Vertical too, in some places.
04:52<@peter1138>There's a copy of the repo online now, but, uh, I didn't upload the current GRF for it :/
04:53<@peter1138>Celestar: sneak2.png and sneak3.png may explain a little more :)
04:54<Celestar>http://svn.bucks.net/~petern/sneak2.png
04:54<Celestar>http://svn.bucks.net/~petern/sneak3.png
04:54<Celestar>nice one :D
04:56<SpComb>why are there three "convert rail" buttons? :o
04:56<@peter1138>Because I didn't have the correct graphics for the other two.
04:58<Brianetta>peter1138: Is "Metro" another power source?
04:58<planetmaker>peter1138: is that work towards a "more railtypes" patch?
04:59<planetmaker>Brianetta: mostly it's another railtype, introduced in the 2cc set - my uneducated guess :)
05:00*Celestar is frustrated with std::list
05:00<Celestar>it's the wrong tool for storing a tree (=
05:00*Celestar wants an std::tree
05:00<Celestar>PING
05:02<Brianetta>planetmaker: By "power source" I mean "railtype compatible with standard rails, but with train compatibility filtered by power type"
05:02<Brianetta>like elrails
05:03<planetmaker>hm, I see. Might be interesting to configure that via grf :)
05:05<@peter1138>Brianetta, it can be.
05:05<@peter1138>The spec allows for it, but the GRF I made does not do it.
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05:10<Celestar>GAAH
05:10*Celestar goes adding fprintfs
05:11*planetmaker ponders how much Celestar's profession has risen his frustration tolerance ;)
05:12<Celestar>planetmaker: I'm a PhD student, I have ZERO frustration tolerance
05:12<planetmaker>oh? Hm... I thought that was the main goal of doing a PhD to rise that tolerance ;)
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05:14<Celestar>planetmaker: it comes and goes
05:14<Brianetta>no, tha main goal of doing a PhD is to make people have to call you Doctor
05:14<planetmaker>:)
05:15<Brianetta>One must do shitloads of really hard work to be called Doctor
05:15<planetmaker>and try to sell you towels and other medical stuff in the wrong assumption you got a PhD in medicine. Yeah... right ;)
05:15<Brianetta>no
05:15<Brianetta>Any doctorate is awesome in my book
05:15<Brianetta>Celestar: What's yours in?
05:15<planetmaker>They did try with my father...
05:16<planetmaker>my guess would be engineering.
05:17<Celestar>Brianetta: Numerical Fluid-dynamics
05:17<Brianetta>Oooh
05:17<Celestar><= Aerospace Engineer
05:17<Brianetta>Is that, like, thin pipes go faster?
05:17<planetmaker>:P hardly, I guess
05:17<Brianetta>They do
05:17<Brianetta>in a closed system
05:18<Celestar>it's a little ... more complicated :P
05:18<planetmaker>depends, Brianetta
05:18<Brianetta>Well, yeah
05:18<Brianetta>Are you going to be the guy who predicts turbulence?
05:18<Brianetta>That's be awesome²
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05:20<Celestar>about that :P
05:20<Celestar>yes :P
05:20<Brianetta>(:
05:21<planetmaker>long live Cholmogorov ;)
05:21<Celestar>it is predicable, on a statistical level
05:21<Brianetta>Speaking of fluid dynamics... this isn't quite it, but it's cool: http://hackedgadgets.com/2008/08/13/waterfall-display/
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05:26<xahodo>Hello
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05:28<SpComb>pretty neat
05:29<Celestar>heya
05:29<xahodo>I can't log in on flyspray, although I am registered. :(
05:30<planetmaker>works here.
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05:33<Celestar>BAH
05:33<Celestar>list.insert(it, DATA);
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05:33<Celestar>where does "it" point to after this statement?
05:34<xahodo>It gets even better. I can go through the procedure to change my password, but when I try to reregister, it simply tells me my nickname is already taken. When I try to login though, it isn't aware of my nickname's existance.
05:35<@Rubidium>then you never acknowledged the email about your registration
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05:37<xahodo>errr... I'm already registered there and posted some bugs.
05:39<@Rubidium>what's your username on fs?
05:39<xahodo>Expresso
05:41<@Rubidium>and now?
05:41<@Rubidium>does it work?
05:41<xahodo>yes, now it does.
05:41<xahodo>what was the problem?
05:41<@Rubidium>you weren't part of any group
05:41*peter1138 ponders working on ... oh crap, I turned my home PC off :(
05:41<@Rubidium>no idea what caused that
05:42<@Rubidium>peter1138: use your adidas-network to wake it up ;)
05:42<@peter1138>My what?
05:42<@Rubidium>http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Adidas+network
05:42<@peter1138>Hmm, forums down :o
05:43<xahodo>Well, the first time I got in this from flyspray was when I noticed the upgrade (if it was upgraded).
05:44<@peter1138>And ouch, 22 hops to wiki :o
05:44<@peter1138>Do we want speed limits for rail types?
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05:45<Brianetta>FOr an entire railtype? no
05:46<Brianetta>Trains have limits we can enforce
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05:48<@peter1138>Hmm, I need to draw some sample images...
05:48<Celestar>peter1138: yeah, why not? so we can have normal rails and high-speed rails at about 5 times the price?
05:53<Amixbook>would be great
05:53<Celestar>peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/treeview.png
05:53<Celestar>SpComb: for you too (=
05:53<Amixbook>same with tram tracks... on own track faster, while in cities slower?
05:54<@peter1138>Wow.
05:54<@peter1138>Is that real? ;)
05:54<Celestar>peter1138: yes
05:54<@peter1138>Trams are slow enough as is ;)
05:55<Celestar>peter1138: what do you think it is? photoshopped? :P
05:55<Celestar>peter1138: It'd take me 5 times as much time to photoshop in then to code it :P
05:56<Amixbook>but trams runs faster on its own track peter1138
05:56<Amixbook>they can run upto 130km on own tracks
05:56<Amixbook>especially those train-trams in France
05:57*Celestar finds it embarassing that the ICE3 runs faster in France than it runs in Germany :P
05:57<Amixbook>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram-train
05:57<Amixbook>Celestar: why is it so?
05:58<Celestar>Amixbook: because the germans are too stupid to build proper tracks
05:58<Amixbook>ohh
05:58<@peter1138>Celestar, could be just random figures ;)
05:58<Ammler>Amixbook: combining road tracks with rail tracks won't be that easy, I guess...
05:59<Amixbook>Ammler: the tram tracks runs already on road tracks
05:59<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> Do we want speed limits for rail types? <- yes, but possible to turn off (like wagon speed limits)
05:59<Celestar>Amixbook: the Train itself has a Vmax of 330km/h (standard), or 350km/h (modded version for Spain). It runs up to 320km/h in France (most likely because the French don't want the ICE to run faster than the ICE), but no more than 300km/h in Germany (no faster certified tracks).
06:00<Celestar>Amixbook: the version for the spanish market can even go 400km/h in normal configuration, making it the fastest production-train by a large margin.
06:00<Amixbook>ahh
06:01<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, that can be done with GRF parameters.
06:01<Amixbook>Norway have ordered 50 of these http://www.vg.no/reise/artikkel.php?artid=534464
06:01<Celestar>but the ETCS goes only up to 350km/h afaik
06:01<Amixbook>from Switzerland
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06:01<Amixbook>Stadler I think
06:01<Amixbook>;p
06:01<Amixbook>dont know the exact name
06:01<SpComb>Celestar: is this new GUI hg-pullable?
06:01<Celestar>SpComb: not yet, but it will be after I've cleaned it up
06:01<Amixbook>they can run upto 200km/h i think
06:02<Forked>Amixbook: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article2604942.ece :p
06:02<Amixbook>well
06:02<Celestar>SpComb: or after peter's helped me with cleaning it up (=
06:02<Amixbook>that wasnt a news
06:02<Amixbook>that i didnt know would have come
06:02<Amixbook>;p
06:03<Amixbook>Forked: Its funny that Kjels?s got such standard
06:03<Amixbook>haha
06:03<SpComb>what's the grand plan for merging this into trunk, btw?
06:03<Forked>so three out of threehundredandsixty stations are compatible with the new trainsets
06:03<Forked>sweet
06:03<Eddi|zuHause>road types need speed limits, too
06:03<Eddi|zuHause>especially in cities
06:03<Forked>are you in a wheelchair? well then it sucks to be you unless you use two of the following threehundredandsixty stations
06:03<Amixbook>Forked: well.. its easier building stations than rebuilding trains
06:04<Amixbook>Forked: you have to use Kjels?s station
06:04<Amixbook>:D
06:04<Forked>well it's easier ordering trains that "fit" than rebuilding stations :\
06:04<Forked>anyway I live in Ålesund, we only do hurtigruta
06:05<Amixbook>ahh
06:05<Amixbook>norway politics should be hanged
06:05<Amixbook>;P
06:05<Amixbook>politicians
06:05<Forked>same goes for most politicians
06:05<Amixbook>hehe
06:05<Amixbook>first we close down trams in Bergen
06:06<Amixbook>then after 15 years
06:06<Amixbook>were building it up again
06:06<Celestar>bah
06:06<Celestar>there's a shitload of code duplication I have there
06:07<Celestar>or not ..
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06:07<fjb>Hello
06:08<Amixbook>hey
06:08<Amixbook>Forked: would be nice if they started to build double tracks all over norway
06:08<Amixbook>and by 2012 having a great system
06:08<Amixbook>but things must take forevere here
06:09<Amixbook>;(
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>you want to complete something in 4 years?
06:10<Forked>I'd rather have fibre optic than trains here =p
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>do you have any idea how long they are planning and building on the high speed track from Erfurt to Halle/Leipzig meanwhile?
06:11<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: they should cancel it
06:11<Celestar>Build the TR from NUE-LEJ and NUE-FRA
06:12<Celestar>costs less.
06:12<Amixbook>Eddi|zuHause: 20th of September is a special day for UBB Bahn
06:12<Amixbook>then UBB bahn will go into Poland for the first time
06:12<Celestar>topography in Germany (and Norway) is suboptimal for high-speed railways
06:12<Celestar>UBB?
06:13<Amixbook>Norway is way more rocks
06:13<Amixbook>Celestar: yes
06:13<Celestar>Amixbook: and much lower population density. also suboptimal for trains
06:13<Amixbook>http://www.ubb-online.com/de/liniennetz.html
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>UBB as in "Usedomer Bäderbahn"?
06:14<Amixbook>yes
06:14<Amixbook>20th of September it will go into Swinoujscie
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>Swinemünde, yes...
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>i've been there a while ago
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>2000
06:14<Amixbook>now you can just walk over the border
06:15<Amixbook>pretty cool
06:15<Eddi|zuHause>they just opened the new bridge in Wolgast back then, and for the first time drove to the "main land" :)
06:15<Amixbook>:)
06:16<Amixbook>now you can take a train from Berlin to Swinoujscie
06:16<Amixbook>4 times a day
06:16<Eddi|zuHause>the old bridge to Usedom was destroyed in WWII
06:16<Amixbook>Eddi|zuHause: i am born there
06:17<Amixbook>Poland is gaining Norway in train efficency
06:17<Amixbook>thats really bad for norway
06:18<Celestar>SpComb: it can be pulled now. Is your server still running?
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>well, the last time the train was going to Swinemünde, there was no Poland there :p
06:18<SpComb>Celestar: yes, but it's paused, I have to leave to work soonish, and I'm going to be busy for most of the evening
06:18<Amixbook>Now they have new trains going between Swinoujscie and Szcezcin running at 160km/t making a trip that took 3-4 hours down to 1 hour
06:19<Celestar>SpComb: I see. np
06:19<Celestar>SpComb: did you hit any desyncs yesterday?
06:19-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1CB84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:19<SpComb>nope, not a single one
06:19<Amixbook>Forked: hehe.. :D
06:19<Amixbook>fibre is nice
06:20<Celestar>SpComb: awesome
06:20<Forked>so is vdsl2, if only the cobber cabling in this town wasnt so shit
06:20<SpComb>I'll try updating and give it a quick look, but I have to leave in half an hour
06:21<Celestar>SpComb: if you could just leave it running (paused) then I'd have a look at well
06:21<Celestar>SpComb: just tell me when you have updated it
06:22<SpComb>it's compiling right now
06:22<Celestar>great
06:23<Celestar>what's the IP/hostname again?
06:23<SpComb>the server's running now, skrblz.fixme.fi
06:23<SpComb>or skrblz.qmsk.net, actually, but there's no difference
06:23<Celestar>thanks
06:24<Amixbook>Forked: i am actually a morphos user ;P i use my mac at the moment. will be moving this weekend. then i am back :)
06:24<SpComb>how difficult is it to set up a cross-compilation environment and build win32 .exe's on linux?
06:24<SpComb>the wiki looked kind of intimidating on that issu
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06:25<Celestar>dunno
06:25*SpComb waits for his new CPU to be delivered while waiting for openttd to compile on his desktop
06:27<Celestar>heh
06:27<SpComb>it's so nice and fast when compiling with -j9 on a dual-quad xeon that it feels painful on a X2 3800
06:28<Celestar>heh
06:28<Celestar>I'm on a Pentium-M 770
06:28<Celestar>gonna upgrade to a Core 2 Duo P8600 soon
06:28<Noldo>does the new openttd megaserver mean also more nightly targets?
06:28<@peter1138>Dual-quad? You probably want -j 17...
06:28<Gekz>Lol.
06:28<Celestar>why exactly 17?
06:28<@peter1138>I use -j 8 on my single quad.
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06:28<Celestar>I use -j3 on my desktop :P
06:28<@peter1138>Celestar, two per core and one extra, for some reason...
06:29<Gekz>I use -j2 on my eeepc.
06:29<Eddi|zuHause>2n+1
06:29<Celestar>heh... and -j16 if the cluster is free ;)
06:29<@peter1138>Takes me about 18 seconds or so. SpComb's must be able to compile it in about 10 seconds.
06:30<Celestar>18 SECONDS?
06:30<Celestar>my 770 needs about 2.5 minutes for the full recompile
06:30<@peter1138>Yes. My old PC took about 6 minutes.
06:31<Celestar>this isn't exactly "old"
06:31<@peter1138>Mine was :)
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06:32<Celestar>peter1138: hwat CPU was it?
06:33<@peter1138>AMD Athlon 800.
06:34<Celestar>oh
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06:34<@peter1138>How do I upload an image to the wiki?
06:36<@peter1138>Ah, done it... now how to link them... :)
06:36<Forked>Amixbook: uhm what? :p
06:37<@peter1138>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Peter1138/Railtypes#Action_3
06:37<@peter1138>:D
06:37<@peter1138>SketchUp is my friend.
06:37<Celestar>heh
06:38<Celestar>when showing the waiting cargo for a route A-B-C ... maybe the number of passengers boarding at B would be helpful?
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: how about increasing the number of junction underground pieces?
06:39<@peter1138>Why?
06:40<@peter1138>I don't fancy one for every conceivable junction layout.
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>for switches? i hardly ever build triangles of tracks anymore...
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06:42<Celestar>peter1138: Rubidium: we have an obiwan in the chat window
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably fine for normal rails, but the metro rails, where the 3rd rail is "embedded" in the rail underground, it looks kinda ugly
06:42-!-fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
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06:42<Celestar>peter1138: Rubidium: http://www.fvfischer.de/obiwan.png
06:44<Celestar>I've got to head into a meeting
06:45<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, that's another 12 sprites... Hmm...
06:45-!-thvdburgt [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
06:45<@peter1138>On the other hand, if you're doing all those, you can draw the track on them too.
06:45<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could maybe make those optional, and fall back to the other ones if not specified...
06:46<@peter1138>So it is actually less work for the game.
06:46<@peter1138>Hmm...
06:46<@peter1138>Doable.
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06:51<Celestar>peter1138: so. the new GUI is pullable, we've still got the Total Cargo View, the network test yesterday passed without a desync, and we might need/want another code review by someone else than the two of us. right?
06:57<Celestar>wow that WAS a conversation killer :P
06:58<hylje>OMG! CODE REVIEWS!
06:58<Forked>RUN!
07:01<@peter1138>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=720262#p720262
07:01<@peter1138>^ Anyone fancy correcting this guy?
07:02<Celestar>reading
07:03<Celestar>you mean that "tut" guy?
07:03<@peter1138>Yes. I did link directly to his last post.
07:03<Celestar>he has NFI
07:03<Forked>it's not 0.6.2 if it has yapp .. and if both versions returned the same version number that would make things alot worse
07:03<@peter1138>I merely hope he's not the actual FreeBSD port maintainer :)
07:04<Forked>how is this for a response? "so.. you feel that a modified version of 0.6.2 claiming to be 0.6.2 will make things .. easier?" :p
07:05<Celestar>what does he *want* ?
07:06<Celestar>0.6.2 with yapp?
07:06<Forked>yup
07:06<Celestar>he has even less of a FI than I thought then :P
07:09<Celestar>I'm off for a meeting and stuff
07:09<Celestar>back in an hour or two
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07:14<planetmaker>Forked: I just posted something along those lines :P
07:14<planetmaker>obviously to him some things are far from clear...
07:15<Forked>ye I saw
07:15<planetmaker>[13:03] <peter1138> I merely hope he's not the actual FreeBSD port maintainer :) <--- let's hope that indeed :)
07:16<fjb>Maintainer of the FreeBSD port is danfe@FreeBSD.org
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07:19<fjb>Maybe orudge could take a look if the email address tut registered with has any similarity with danfe.
07:20<planetmaker>:D
07:20<planetmaker>I would like to doubt that... but better save than sorry?
07:20<planetmaker>save or safe? safe, right?
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07:21<fjb>But FreeBSD has a lot of ports in a stable version and an additional development version.
07:23<fjb>And there is really no difficulty in compiling OpenTTD on FreeBSD on your own. It compiles out of the box.
07:23<planetmaker>most probable even, most people who use FreeBSD are capable of compiling...
07:24<CommanderZ>so why is he porting something that doesnt need to be ported?
07:24<@peter1138>FreeBSD 'ports' is a build system.
07:25<fjb>Yes, but with a portts system like FreeBSD has you get lazy. You don't have to think about how to compile, just cd into the ports directory and type "make install".
07:26<fjb>The ports system keeps track about the installed files and cleanly removes them if you want to get rid of that program.
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07:27<CommanderZ>windows should have something like that
07:28<fjb>Yes. :-)
07:30<fjb>You can also install FreeBSD without the C compiler. The FreeBSD project offers compiles binaries of most ports, calles packages. The ports system also keeps track of the files from the packages.
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07:40<@Rubidium>luckily there's already a FreeBSD OS in flyspray, so we can just close all those bugs as: not using an unmodified binary
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>if he wants "YAPP" as a compile time option, why doesn't he just make "nightly" a compile time option?
07:51<planetmaker>smaller player base. :P
07:51<planetmaker>I've serious doubts though that with a patched 0.6.2 his player base will become larger :D
07:52-!-|Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@77.60.199.138] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/]
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm... it's bad... i have accepted the BR 18 prototype, but i have no proper passenger wagons to put on...
07:53<fjb>Even if you consider the market share of FreeBSD.
07:54<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Use the old stock. Looks kind of funny.
07:56<CommanderZ>he should be doing an iphone port if he wants player base
07:56<Eddi|zuHause>custom station names are way too short...
07:58<@peter1138>Ahh... excellent... a colleague has brought some beers in :D
07:59<@Rubidium>did he turn on your home computer when he was fetching them?
07:59<@peter1138>No :(
07:59<@peter1138>Should I add extra tiles for Eddi|zuHause's junctions?
08:00<@peter1138>And maybe have them optional...
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>Trams need the ability to turn around in tram stops... :/
08:05-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0DAE28.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
08:05<Celestar>morning
08:07<Celestar>peter1138: you there?
08:07<fjb>And the commuter airport comes way too late with the airport noise option enabled.
08:07<fjb>peter1138 is drinking beer. So don't expect too much.
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08:08<Celestar>he's what? :P
08:09<Forked>drunk
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08:12<ln>14:58 <@peter1138> Ahh... excellent... a colleague has brought some beers in :D
08:12<@peter1138>Hah
08:13<@peter1138>Unfortunately it's alcohol free...
08:13<@peter1138>Tastes alright though.
08:13<Celestar>heh :P
08:13<CommanderZ>dammit, my colleagues always bring in only some redbulls
08:13<CommanderZ>and I hate them
08:14<Celestar>peter1138: you got anything to pull for me or some work on the totalcargoview? Otherwise I'll start working on i
08:14<Celestar>t
08:14<@peter1138>No.
08:15<@peter1138>The start of the work I did is... at home...
08:15<Celestar>how much is it?
08:15<@peter1138>Moving the station cargo list stuff into a new class in a new file.
08:16<Celestar>I see
08:27<Celestar>vscroll_cap is in pixels ?
08:28<Celestar>or in lines? or what unit?
08:28<+glx>whatever you want
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>reducing transfer credit by 30% really helped with the negative income situation...
08:28<+glx>it's in relation with scrollbar max value
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08:29<Eddi|zuHause>it balances out the income much better between the vehicles
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08:31<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: balancing will be addressed later (=
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>well, i just added a *70/100 to the transfer credit line :)
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>which basically means 30% of that will get accounted to the last vehicle in the transfer chain in the end
08:33<@peter1138>Ah, I just found SketchUp's isometric view :)
08:34<@peter1138>Not exactly the same as TTD, but good enough.
08:34<Celestar>hm?
08:34<@peter1138>I'm drawing diagrams of extra tiles for Eddi|zuHause's junctions.
08:36<Celestar>heh
08:36<Celestar>make smooth curves please peter1138
08:36<Celestar>oh and a cure for cancer would be cool too
08:36<Celestar>peter1138: how's this: http://www.fvfischer.de/tcv.png
08:37<@peter1138>Smooth curves... Argh! :p
08:37<+glx>Celestar: nice
08:37<@peter1138>Don't forget other vehicle types...
08:37<+glx>now do the same for other types yes ;)
08:38<+glx>(have fun with GUI)
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>i thought about how to do "smooth curves", basically you'd need to split each trackbit in the middle, and then change the trackbit-half-graphics depending on the adjacent tile
08:39<Celestar>peter1138: it's not finished yet, I've managed to f*ck up scrolling :P
08:40<@peter1138>With 'rail continuation info' you could do it with varactions ;)
08:41<Celestar>peter1138: we also have factually wrong info in the detailed cargo tab
08:41<+glx>newgrfs can have more than 8 sprites
08:41<@peter1138>We do?
08:41<@peter1138>glx, context?
08:42<+glx>for smooth curves you need more steps
08:43<Celestar>glx: you need totally new vehicle set
08:43<Celestar>s
08:43<Celestar>oh yes, and a totally new concept of drawing vehicle
08:43<Celestar>s
08:43<Celestar>..
08:43<Celestar>my key is not working o well
08:43<Celestar>..
08:43*Celestar getsss a vacuum cleaner
08:44-!-Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
08:45<Celestar>heya Sacro
08:45<Sacro>heya Celestar
08:50<@peter1138>Do we want to implement curved track at this point?
08:50<@peter1138>It never worked well with Simutrans :op
08:50<@peter1138>-p
08:50<Celestar>peter1138: want: yes. are able to: no :P
08:51<@peter1138>Why not?
08:52<Celestar>peter1138: because we basically need to change everything. We'd have to draw a new vehicle set, We'd have to basically drop newgrf support ...
08:52<Sacro>so I found a bug last night...
08:52<Celestar>peter1138: we'd need to either make an online rendering of vehicle or store at least 32 different angles for each vehicle
08:52<Sacro>implement .x loading?
08:53<Celestar>?
08:53<Sacro>alllow model files
08:53<Sacro>rather than just sprites
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08:58<fjb>Does it really look that bad if just the track looks curved and the vehicles still have only the current eight views?
08:58<SpComb>Celestar: I started a stub: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Passenger_and_cargo_destinations
08:58<Sacro>Celestar: is it working now?
08:58<Celestar>SpComb: awesome. I just noticed that I lack wiki access
08:58<Celestar>SpComb: http://www.fvfischer.de/tcv.png
08:58<Celestar>Sacro: is *what* working now?
08:59<Sacro>cargo packets
08:59<@peter1138>fjb, http://simutrans.wz.cz/images/ss/1.jpg
08:59-!-KillaloT [~killalot@0x5738cc8b.rdnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
08:59<Sacro>peter1138: *throws up*
08:59<Celestar>Sacro: can you link from the main development page to that page in the subprojects item?
08:59<Celestar>Sacro: of course, why not=
08:59<@Rubidium>Celestar: lack wiki access?
08:59<SpComb>Celestar: yup, I just noticed that in the scrollback
08:59<Celestar>Rubidium: apparently
08:59<Sacro>Celestar: errr...
09:00<Forked>planetmaker: I feel that tut dude didn't really respond at all to the answer you gave him
09:00<SpComb>it's kind of similar to what the station view shows
09:00<Sacro>Login error:
09:00<Sacro>There is no user by the name "Sacro". Check your spelling, or create a new account.
09:00<@Rubidium>everyone can edit the wiki (except a few pages)
09:00<Celestar>SpComb: the question is still what to display in the Detailed Cargo View (the one per wagon). Splitting destinations by wagon makes little sense
09:00<SpComb>sometimes you want to know where the passengers on a train are from, sometimes you want to know where they're going to, etc :)
09:00<Celestar>Rubidium: I see (=
09:00<SpComb>Celestar: can induvidual wagons contain different cargo packets?
09:00<fjb>peter1138: Thank you. That looks really bad, but it clearly shows curves where diagonal track should be.
09:00<Celestar>SpComb: yes.
09:00<Celestar>SpComb: v->cargo_cap different packets
09:01<SpComb>indeed, then the "<count> <cargo> from <blaa>" kind of fails
09:01<Celestar>peter1138: this is about the second most ugly thing I have seen in a long time :P
09:01<@peter1138>Celestar, don't show destinations for the 'detailed' cargo view.
09:01<SpComb>hmm, I should probably take a look through the code some time as well, perhaps I'll gain a better understanding of how it works as well then
09:01<Celestar>peter1138: curved tracks *must* span multiple tiles
09:01<Sacro>Celestar: description?
09:01<Celestar>peter1138: I'm not. the question is whether to show origin.
09:01<Celestar>Sacro: description of what?
09:02<Sacro>what i'm adding on the subprojects area
09:02<Sacro>also, i'll remove the old [[Cargo Packets]]
09:02<@peter1138>Incidentally that doesn't let you have two vertical or two horizontal pieces on a tile, either.
09:02<Celestar>oh ... "Cargo with specific destinations"
09:02<SpComb>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Requested_features <-- this?
09:02<SpComb>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Recent_and_Current_Developments <-- and/or this?
09:02<Sacro>Celestar: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Development done
09:03<Sacro>i might have to get hg and test it
09:03<SpComb>both of those pages above mention cargo packets/destinations as well
09:03<Celestar>you can set it to 85% complete :P
09:04*Sacro goes for a shit shower and shave
09:04<SpComb>well, there have been other paxdest branches in the past
09:04<SpComb>some mention of those somewhere?
09:04<Celestar>wth is a shitshower?
09:04<Celestar>.. maybe I don't wanna know
09:05<@peter1138>:o
09:05<SpComb>or perhaps there's just a missing comma there
09:05<ln>sounds like something Wikipedia is likely to have an article about.
09:05<SpComb>Celestar: have you modified the ./configure script to check for boost?
09:05<Celestar>SpComb: not yet.
09:05<SpComb>probably should at some point
09:06<Celestar>SpComb: I know, but I have NFI about configure scripts. We have more capable people than me here to do that
09:06<Celestar>I just dunno yet whom to poke
09:06<SpComb>hehe, I just copy-pasted the libpng stuff when I added libcurl to that :)
09:06<SpComb>but I guess boost is a bit more complicated
09:07<Celestar>I'm just including one file
09:08<Celestar>so it shouldn't be
09:08<planetmaker>[15:00] <Forked> planetmaker: I feel that tut dude didn't really respond at all to the answer you gave him <-- I got the same feeling. His problem, if he still fails to see.
09:09<@Belugas>hello peoples
09:09<@Belugas>-s
09:09<@Belugas>where is my damn coffee???
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09:11<Celestar>Belugas: don't have any :P
09:11<planetmaker>I can offer you tea, Belugas :)
09:11<Celestar>MEH. gotta set the scrollbar somehow :P
09:11<Sacro>Celestar: missed the comma, but if you really wanna know, google tubgirl (nsfw)
09:11<Forked>I do not want to know
09:11*Celestar wonders whether to continue the vehicle view or edit the wiki page
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09:18<SpComb>Celestar: I just edited it a bit
09:18<SpComb>the next sections need screenshots from the game
09:22<Celestar>SpComb: I can provide you with those if you wish
09:24<Celestar>just tell me what you need
09:26<Eddi|zuHause><Celestar> my key is not working o well <- i know that erfectly well from my key :
09:28<Celestar>there were leftovers of lunch below the key
09:30-!-Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-514faa37.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd
09:31<Celestar>SpComb: can you just add the section you want in? I can add some stuff then
09:33<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r14106 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix(r14104): A string too much been commited
09:33<SpComb>ok, I'll add some barebones outlines
09:34<Eddi|zuHause><SpComb> Celestar: have you modified the ./configure script to check for boost? <- should be unnecessary when a specially crafted boost version is added into svn
09:34<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: point taken
09:36<SpComb>ugh, so I'll have a million copies of the boost library on my machine?
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>no, only of the boost graphics library
09:36<SpComb>one standard libboost, and then one per copy of OpenTTD that I have?
09:36<Celestar>SpComb: only tinyish parts of the boost library
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>s/ics//
09:37-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: Operator, give me an exit]
09:37<SpComb>installing debian's libboost-graph-dev package installs over 200MB of stuff...
09:37<Celestar>vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd-cargodest]> wc -l /usr/include/boost/graph/* | grep total
09:38<Celestar>25309 total
09:38<@Rubidium>SpComb: you get the free and complementary whole libboost world
09:40<@peter1138>Hmm, 16 sprites
09:43<@Belugas>time to work@work
09:44<Celestar>peter1138: this is kinda ugly with the total cargo view
09:44<Celestar>I mean code wise
09:44<@peter1138>I bet :)
09:45<Celestar>http://www.fvfischer.de/tcw.diff
09:45<Celestar>look at this :S
09:46<Celestar>and I still dunno about the detailed cargo view :P
09:46-!-Bean [~Mr.Bean@ip503d6a60.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd
09:46<Bean>@seen yorick
09:46<@DorpsGek>Bean: yorick was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 39 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <Yorick> xdiff+ydiff for diagonal comparisons
09:49<Celestar>peter1138: now is this ugly or is this ugly?
09:49<@peter1138>Didn't look, sorry.
09:49-!-Pikka is now known as Pikka|tf2
09:49-!-mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
09:49<Celestar>lucky you :P
09:51<ln>http://users.utu.fi/lpjapp/P1010011.JPG
09:53<Celestar>ln: and this thing needs to be 3MB? :P
09:53<SpComb>Celestar: I added a bunch of skeleton sections that I think could do with some explenation
09:53<Celestar>ok
09:53<Celestar>looking
09:54<Celestar>SpComb: I'll dump some ideas and screenies into the sections in the next few hours and maybe add an "internals" section
09:55<Celestar>erm peter1138
09:55<Celestar>SpComb: if I find the time while working
09:55<@peter1138>Erm what?
09:55<SpComb>yeah, documentation's annoying to write :)
09:56<CommanderZ>are you making dest for cargo too or for pax only?
09:56<Celestar>peter1138: I've drawn that icon for the minimap. Do we want to use it?
09:56<Celestar>CommanderZ: it's configurable
09:56<CommanderZ>sounds good
09:56<Celestar>pax are cargo as well, you know
09:57<Celestar>only difference is that they're self-loading :P
09:57<ln>Celestar: dunno, it's not my photo nor homepage.
09:57<CommanderZ>i know, just the older patch was pax and mail only, wasn't it?
09:58-!-NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/]
09:58<Celestar>CommanderZ: possible.
09:58<Celestar>We've got a clean(er) implementation now
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10:00-!-Bean [~Mr.Bean@ip503d6a60.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg]
10:00<Celestar>did I scare him ?
10:01<Celestar>:o
10:01<Celestar>plane crash in Madrid
10:02-!-NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd
10:02<ln>an MD-80 or?
10:03<Celestar>apparently
10:03<Celestar>runway overshhot
10:03<Celestar>overshoot*
10:03<Celestar>shortest runway is 3500m
10:03<Celestar>weird
10:03<@Belugas>p
10:05<@Belugas>hehe...no wonder it was not working :) wrong window caught the "p"
10:05<Celestar>weather at time of crash: METAR LEMD 201300Z 14004KT CAVOK 29/03 Q1018 NOSIG
10:05<Celestar>very weird
10:06<@Belugas>i agree... usually, weather is more like... sunny, light breeze...
10:07<Celestar>wth is wrong with airliners.net :S
10:07<Celestar>"posted Tue Aug 19 2008 21:49:06 your local time (15 minutes 54 secs ago)"
10:07*Celestar blinks
10:07<Celestar>number of casulties in media ranges from 0 to 75
10:08<Celestar>great measuring accuracy
10:10-!-mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:10*Celestar goes back to cargodest
10:10-!-Zahl [~Zahl@e176238252.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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10:16<Celestar>:o
10:16<Celestar>vim has a ":make" as well
10:17<@peter1138>http://svn.bucks.net/~petern/zero-is-auto-too.diff
10:17<@peter1138>Re: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=39109
10:19-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@f051102122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
10:19<Mortal>#openttd: your source for random awesome diffs
10:19<Celestar>Mortal: ?
10:20<Mortal>ln linked some grammer and spellingcorrection diffs yesterday
10:20<Celestar>yeah
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas committed some stuff about that...
10:21<Celestar>he did
10:21<@Belugas>so did I
10:22-!-Priski [priski@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>gnaah... station needs more tracks, but there's an industry in the way :(
10:22<+glx>walk to the other side of the industry
10:22<ln>Mortal: "grammer"......
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>and a lake...
10:22<fjb>Hire some terrorists to blast the industry.
10:23<Celestar>heh
10:23<+glx>fill the lake
10:23<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: what server are you on?
10:23<@Belugas>or implement underground stations ^_^
10:23<Mortal>ln, I'm just tickling your spelling senses
10:23<Mortal>or should I say... Im
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10:23-!-De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-132-73.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not on any server
10:23<Celestar>pity
10:23-!-De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-137-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd
10:24<@Belugas>Mortal, i'm not. In fact, it would be nice if more corrections like these were made available
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>i can't play online... i can't cope to the lack of pause button :p
10:24<Mortal>Belugas, you're not what?
10:24<Celestar>managing a 1k x 1k map with paxdest and maildest alone is virtually impossible
10:24<+glx>even on smaller map
10:24<@Belugas>mmmh... nevermind Mortal, i can't clearly read IRC right now...
10:24<@Belugas>got confused
10:25<Mortal>Belugas, I like such corrections too
10:25<Mortal>(the only problem is with annotate... but meh)
10:25<fjb>Belugas: An underground station beneath the lake could turn out as a bad idea.
10:26<@Belugas>fjb, call it underwater then :)
10:26<fjb>:-)
10:26-!-Zahl [~Zahl@e176238252.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:26-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
10:26<@Belugas>Mortal, as long as it gives a better overall quality to the project, why not?
10:26<Mortal>http://ccmixter.org/files/Sawtooth/15852 whee, tf2 theme song samples
10:26<Mortal>wait wrong channel, never mind
10:27<Mortal>Belugas, like I said, I like it too
10:27<@Belugas>good :)
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>cargo dests are genious, but i really need a shitload of platforms on the transfer stations...
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, like 2 per transferred cargo type
10:31<fjb>Why that many?
10:37<planetmaker>drop+pickup?
10:40<Celestar>what... omnicppcomplete for vim is AWESOME
10:41<Celestar>it doesn't only complete classes, member, functions and stuff but also shows the declaration
10:42<+glx>like intellisense
10:42<@Belugas>have you ever tried Delphi? hehe
10:43<Celestar>yes
10:43<Celestar>I hated it
10:43<Fuco>every decent IDE compete classes and show declarations :P
10:45*Belugas loves Delphi for over...
10:46<@Belugas>13 years i guess
10:46<Celestar>Fuco: not sure vim qualifies and an IDE
10:46<Celestar>Fuco: I wish there was ONE IDE with a decent editor
10:46<Celestar>just a single one
10:46*Belugas knows one :)
10:46<+glx>visual studio is nice
10:46<@Belugas>make it two :D
10:46<Celestar>glx: the editor of it sucks
10:47<Celestar>at least the 2003 and 2005 versions
10:47<Celestar>glx: plus it's not available for real OSes :P
10:47<@Belugas>I suck , you suck, she sucks, he sucks, it sucks ...
10:47<Celestar>and developing in windows is giving me the creeps. That's worse the writing a dissertation in Word
10:48*Belugas thinks Celestar has some "parti-pris"
10:48<Fuco>2008 is cool
10:48<Celestar>Belugas: I have some what?
10:48<@Belugas>mind already made up, preconceived ideas, that soert of things
10:49<SpComb>irrational fear
10:49-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm158.epsilon120.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd
10:50<SpComb>you've probably had some traumatic experience with VS in the past, maybe you've already forgotten what it was, but the trauma remains
10:50<SpComb>a bit like Singaporekid
10:51<@Belugas>naaa.. i think i know what Celestar feels. For a very long time, i hated anything that was C/C++
10:51<@Belugas>I found the language cryptic, hard to follow,
10:51<@Belugas>too hard to be workable
10:52<@Belugas>so i ran away from it and always bashed over it
10:52<@Belugas>amin reason: I had been in a totally different language
10:52<SpComb>I've seen enough good C code that I find using it enjoyable
10:53<@Belugas>i think it's the same with Celestar. He's confortable with his OS and thus it makes him unconfortable to do anything on Windows
10:53<SpComb>in other words, it is possible to write good C code that works well and is beautiful in it's own right
10:53<@Belugas>i guess so
10:53<Celestar>Belugas: I don't have anything specific against C or C++
10:53<@Belugas>if you follow a CODE-STYLE!!!
10:53<+glx>SpComb: the opposite is true
10:53<SpComb>things like nicely-documented function-pointer structs <3
10:53<@Belugas>Celestar, i never said you didn;t
10:54<Celestar>Belugas: I consider Closed-Source software as a considerable threat, yes.
10:54<Celestar>Belugas: worse the Ossama and GWB taken together tbh
10:54<@Belugas>i was makng a comparaison between my hatred of C and your hatred of Win :)
10:54<Celestar>"hatred" is the wrong word ;)
10:54-!-Reemo [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0C64E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:55<@Belugas>well... "unease"?
10:55<Celestar>Was windows open-sourced (not necessarily free), I might change my mind
10:55<SpComb>glx: sure, it's also easy to write bad C code that does what it's supposed to do, but is hard to read and extend/modify
10:55<SpComb>(some of the OpenTTD code... )
10:55<Fuco>i like windows.. easy to manage, easy to install, easy to add things like blootooth cellphone and 10 years old adsl modem..
10:55<Celestar>but if someone tries to hide something from me, this 'something' is rarely good.
10:56<Celestar>Fuco: I find most hardware installation more difficult on windows than on linux, provided there are drivers for windows
10:56<Celestar>Fuco: however, hardware support still lacks
10:56<SpComb>Fuco: haha... I'm going to claim that something like Ubuntu is far easier to install than windows, and easier to manage...
10:56<ln>a finnish news site is reporting: "one of the plane's left-side engines caught fire before take-off".........
10:56<Celestar>Fuco: I find windows horribly difficult to manage.
10:57<Fuco>hm
10:57<SpComb>for instance, I don't know of any windows equivalent to linux LiveCD:s
10:57<Fuco>why you need livecd
10:57<@Belugas>Celestar, i find the same when looking at my ubuntu, it's just a matter of habits :)
10:57<Fuco>what's the point of slow OS loaded from CD
10:57<Fuco>for me as a "basic user"
10:57<SpComb>Fuco: fixing broken installs (e.g. your had drive partitions are borked)
10:58<SpComb>and e.g. ubuntu's installer is just a livecd with an "install ubuntu to your hard drive" icon on the desktop
10:58<Fuco>i can do that with any other software
10:58<Celestar>CARGODEST!
10:58<SpComb>which is far more than window's installer has to offer
10:58*Celestar tries to change the topic
10:58<SpComb>but myes, I really don't want to continue this discussion
10:58<Fuco>i have ubuntu on notebook
10:59<Fuco>tho i don't use it
10:59<ln>148 dead, says some source.
10:59<SpComb>then neither of us are in a position to speak absolute truths about both linux/ubuntu and windows
10:59<Fuco>ok, you're right than 'modern' 'user friendly' linux is easy to install
10:59<Celestar>148?
11:00<ln>yes.
11:00<SpComb>as I don't know everything about windows, and you probably don't know everything about linux
11:00<Fuco>but still its a pain in the ass to run some hardware on linux
11:00<Celestar>SpComb: I admin linux and windows PCs
11:00<Fuco>when in win i just pres "next" a few times
11:00<Celestar>SpComb: about 50 each
11:01<Celestar>SpComb: I spent 75% of the time with the Windows PCs. It's either the OS, or the users ... dunno
11:01<Celestar>spend*
11:01<SpComb>I've never admined a windows PC, I'm not even aware of what Microsoft's server software does, nor what third party admin tools there are
11:01<Fuco>well, i have the same install of windows for over 2 years
11:01<Fuco>ando no problem
11:01<SpComb>I only use it to play games
11:02<Celestar>I've *tried* setting up a Windows 2003 server for them. I've ditched that attempt and installed SLES10 instead.
11:02<+glx>Celestar: windows users can do strange things to the OS
11:02<Celestar>glx: windows *LETS* the users do strange things
11:02<Celestar>glx: well not anymore, since the users don't have admin privs
11:02<Celestar>and won't get them
11:02<Celestar>no matter what
11:02<+glx>for vista yes
11:02<Celestar>glx: ok now it's getting nasty
11:03<+glx>but it's quite impossible to use XP without admin rights
11:03<+glx>(for me)
11:03<Celestar>glx: XP is a pretty decent workstation OS, if you work with non-admin privs. Vista is just *shudders*
11:03*Celestar continues to shudder and goes back to his cargodest
11:04<Celestar>*shrugs* I dunno what to code next
11:04<SpComb>viewport visual routes?
11:05<Fuco>imho, linux needs some support from some big company, like google or intel to be an real option for desktop computers
11:05<Celestar>not sure I want that at the present time. I'll have to sync with peter first
11:05<SpComb>Fuco: big company like red hat?
11:06<Fuco>that's why their market share is 1%
11:06<Fuco>?
11:06<Fuco>ask some ppl you know if they ever heard about red hat.. if i do that, 95% tell me NO
11:06<SpComb>canonical (Ubuntu) also offers commercial support
11:06<Fuco>ask them about google
11:06<Fuco>or microsoft
11:06<Fuco>and 99% say YES
11:07<Celestar>and that's what makes them dangerous
11:07<Celestar>to each of you
11:07-!-xahodo [~chatzilla@energy.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
11:07<xahodo>Hello
11:07<Celestar>heya
11:07<SpComb>Fuco: red hat isn't really consumer-oriented, mostly business-oriented
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>* Celestar tries to change the topic <- i am fairly convinced that you failed :p
11:08<SpComb>Fuco: even my mom knows my Ubuntu is
11:08<xahodo>I've got a probable desync... any way I can pinpoint it?
11:08<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: I'm fairly convinced that you are correct
11:08<Celestar>xahodo: how much time do you have?
11:08<SpComb>and my sister uses Ubuntu on her laptop, and is thinking about getting an eeePC
11:08<SpComb>*knows what
11:08<xahodo>an hour at most.
11:08<Fuco>your mum knows it probably because you care
11:08<Fuco>and you told her
11:08<Fuco>but most of mums dont :)
11:09<xahodo>I'm currently at a friend's place.
11:09<SpComb>*shrug*
11:09<Celestar>xahodo: is it reproducible?
11:09<SpComb>you'd be surprised as to how well-known ubuntu is
11:09<xahodo>I haven't yet pinpointed it.
11:10<SpComb>I don't have any hard figures, but just my personal experience, which might be a bit biased
11:10<Celestar>SpComb: I'm not worried. Windows is losing market-share by the minute
11:10<Fuco>my school is actually 'sponsored' by red hat, so everyone there knows ubuntu :D
11:11<Celestar>SpComb: we should talk to peter1138 about the main-viewport routing network
11:11<Fuco>google is taking dominant place in 'computer' buisniss over microsoft
11:12<Celestar>which is about equally bad
11:12<Fuco>business*
11:12<Celestar>domination is never a good thing
11:12<Fuco>for most people it is
11:12<Celestar>no. it's not
11:12<Celestar>it's dangerous
11:12<Celestar>there's _never_ _anything_ good about domination
11:12<Fuco>hm.. what's dangerous about windows
11:13<Celestar>Fuco: is this a rethorical question?
11:13<Fuco>no
11:13<Fuco>i don't see anything bad with windows
11:14<Celestar>That's what most people said about Hitler in 1933..
11:15<Fuco>comparing hitler and windows
11:15<Fuco>is really weird
11:16<Celestar>Fuco: I don't consider it weird.
11:16<Fuco>how can windows kill ppl
11:16<Fuco>and dominate half of the europe
11:16<Celestar>there are things worse than death, Fuco
11:16<Fuco>like?
11:16<@peter1138>Bjarni's code.
11:16-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
11:16<Fuco>other example :D?
11:17<Celestar>damn peter1138, I just snorted out my coke over half the room!
11:17<Celestar>Fuco: slavery.
11:17<Celestar>Fuco: police states
11:17<Celestar>Fuco: domination
11:17<@peter1138>pom te pom
11:17<Fuco>again
11:17<Fuco>how can windows enslave ppl
11:17<Celestar>Fuco: three letters: DRM
11:18<Celestar>and that's only the tip of the iceberg
11:18<Fuco>drm?
11:18<Celestar>O_o
11:18<Fuco>what is that
11:18<Celestar>it's a nice a nice step towards 1984, that is
11:19<Fuco>what does that mean? i mean the D.M.R.?
11:19<Celestar>only today's technology makes 1984 look quaint
11:19<Celestar>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management
11:20<ben_goodger_>Celestar: you are comparing DRM to nazism and nineteen eighty-four (the book's title is _not_ 1984)?
11:20<Celestar>ben_goodger_: no DRM in itself, but the road it is paving.
11:20<ben_goodger_>riiiight.
11:20<Celestar>ben_goodger_: (I'm too lazy to type it out all the time)
11:21<CIA-5>OpenTTD: smatz * r14107 /trunk/src/pbs.cpp: -Codechange: marking reserved tile dirty twice (and even when patch option is off) is not needed
11:21<Celestar>ben_goodger_: complete surveillance of your life
11:21<ben_goodger_>well, microsoft can't actually do that when I'm not running their software
11:22<ben_goodger_>the government of the united kingdom, however, can
11:22<Celestar>ben_goodger_: it's not really the the govs of these days are any better
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11:23<Celestar>ben_goodger_: they're driven by fear. But the combo of MS + fear-oriented-goverments is simply deadly
11:23<+glx>they usually know nothing about how internet works
11:23<Celestar>at least deadly for any kind of liberty we know
11:23<Fuco>Celestar, i think you are little bit paranoic. MS+goverments controling you is plain nonsense
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11:24<Celestar>Fuco: and I think you are a little naive
11:24<Fuco>and even if they scan my network traffic, why not
11:24<Fuco>what's the point
11:25<Celestar>Fuco: what's the point of freedom at all? Let's all move to a perfectly secure police state. right.
11:25<Fuco>how it affect your freedom
11:25<Celestar>how does *what* affect my freedom?
11:25<Celestar>scanning all my network traffic?
11:25<Fuco>yes
11:26<Celestar>how about someone recording all your phone calls?
11:26<Fuco>i have no problem with that
11:26<Celestar>reading all your letters?
11:26<Fuco>what they can possibly do with my phone calls
11:26<Fuco>except tell Monica i dont really love her
11:26<Fuco>(just an example)
11:26<Celestar>no one has _ever_ the right to check my letters, read my phone calls, or check my network traffic.,
11:27*orudge reads Celestar's IRC traffic to #openttd
11:27<Celestar>orudge: because _I_ chose to present it
11:27<orudge>quite
11:27<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r14108 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix(r14104): Give a more consistent naming of the new gui file
11:27<orudge>anyway, I'm also not a fan of the UK.gov's rather unrealistic and rather intrusive plans
11:27<Celestar>orudge: welcome to the club
11:28<ben_goodger_>quite
11:28<Celestar>we've to similar ideas in Germany
11:28-!-lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:28<Celestar>thanks to the idiot called Schäuble.
11:28<+glx>France is not better
11:28<Celestar>who apparently knows the internet in the form of printouts :S
11:28<Celestar>glx: unfortunately
11:28<Celestar>Fuco: no one has the right to check my bank accounts either
11:28<ben_goodger_>Celestar: the government of Germany is paralysed by the fear of pseudomuslim rioting, and therefore instituting positive-discrimination policies?
11:29<@Rubidium>lets follow the US where it's legal to take someone's personal belongings and keep them for an undetermined amount of time
11:29<Celestar>ben_goodger_: yes, but we're moving at a slower pace than the UK
11:29<ben_goodger_>Rubidium: in the UK, someone can be taken _themselves_ and kept for up to 42 days without a trial or a phone call
11:30<@Rubidium>in the US there's no limit on that
11:30<@Rubidium>they just have to say: you're a terrorist
11:30<@Rubidium>and you're gone forever
11:31<Fuco>Well, i'm not telling that everyone should have rights to see your accounts/letters etc..
11:31<Fuco>not even goverment
11:31<Fuco>but if they do
11:31<Fuco>i don't see the problem
11:31<@Rubidium>Fuco: I'm not talking about paperwork
11:31<Celestar>Fuco: what if they take my neighbour and kill him? I don't like him anyway ...
11:31<Fuco>i've never used phone to something _so_ important
11:31<@Rubidium>I'm talking about your wallet, mobile, laptop and stuff
11:31<Fuco>Rubidium: i was reffering to something else now
11:32<Fuco>Celestar: you're off topic with killing
11:32-!-divo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
11:32<Celestar>Fuco: why. "Life" is a human right just as "Self-determination of information" is
11:33<Celestar>Fuco: but ok. don't kill him. Take him and inprison him for a decade.
11:33<xahodo>ok, can't pinpoint the desync :( maybe it'll come up another time.
11:33<Fuco>hm, this whole discusion is gone off topic
11:33<Celestar>has it?
11:33<Fuco>we started about MS enslaving humanity
11:33<Fuco>that's your view i think
11:33<Fuco>with their evil windows and big monopol
11:34<Fuco>working with goverments all over the world
11:34<Fuco>to ensure the world domination
11:34<Celestar>yes. this is exactly what is happening around us _at the moment_
11:35<Fuco>aha
11:35<Fuco>its probably because i live in a middle-east europe or im too ignorant to see that :)
11:35<Fuco>but im not experiencing it
11:35-!-divo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit []
11:35<Celestar>Fuco: ah, just because you don't see something, it's not there?
11:36<@Rubidium>Fuco: why is Windows chosen for soo many things? Because it's better? No because the manager knows the name, which in effect enslave their workers to implement it
11:36<@Rubidium>same with many other buzzwords
11:36<@Rubidium>like xml and web2.0
11:36-!-divo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
11:36<Celestar>Fuco: and I live in Central-Europe as well.
11:36<Fuco>germany and slovakia is a bit different
11:37<Celestar>Fuco: half my family is from slovakia. Jews btw..
11:37<Fuco>jews? hmm not much jews around
11:37<Celestar>not anymore.
11:37<Fuco>i know 1 guy
11:37<Celestar>most of my family got killed
11:37*Rubidium lives in the East in Central Europe too
11:38<Fuco>well i'm sorry about that
11:38<@Belugas>XML MAP!!!
11:38<Celestar>Fuco: how old are ye?
11:38<Fuco>19
11:39<Celestar>Fuco: You have any idea how life was one generation ago?
11:39<Fuco>you mean here at slovakia?
11:39<Yorick>autoclean is made to remove the airport after deleting the aircraft, right?
11:40<Yorick>and how does that work on oilrigs?
11:40<Fuco>OIS list.
11:40<Fuco>[17:37:57] -----------------------------------
11:40<Fuco>^ sorry ^
11:40<Celestar>Fuco: yes. In Slovakia
11:40<Fuco>well, only from what my parrents and family told me
11:40<Celestar>and?
11:41<Fuco>like 'real' life :P
11:41<Celestar>great, wasn't it ..
11:41<Fuco>no it wasn't great
11:41<Fuco>however, you can't compare windows to socialism
11:41<Celestar>uh huh. And we're moving the same direction
11:41<Fuco>you still have a choice now
11:41<Fuco>to work with OSX or linux
11:41-!-thvdburgt [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:41<Celestar>NOW yes.
11:41<Fuco>many ppl just pick windows because it's much more convient
11:42<+glx>but you have to pay for windows when you buy a new computer
11:42<Celestar>but MS is working *VERY* hard to remove that choice.
11:42<Celestar>DRM is one start of moving domination to a monopoly
11:42<Celestar>so is Trusted Computing
11:42*valhallasw gets into conflict with all linux window managers sooner or later :(
11:43<valhallasw>somehow it doesn't work for me
11:43<Celestar>valhallasw: which one is now your victim :P
11:43<Fuco>you know microsoft was sued by united states?, If they make a monopol, there are still means to "fix" it
11:43<valhallasw>windows is my current victim ;)
11:43-!-bruce89 [~bruce89@81-178-101-168.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd
11:43<Celestar>Fuco: by the EU as well. and what did change? nothing.
11:44<valhallasw>I can't get along with KDE and gnome.. xfce kinda works
11:44<Fuco>ok, you mean that winapi specs are there just because their good will
11:44<Celestar>and you think M$ will not use their influence in any kind of govermental decision about its future?
11:44<Fuco>i hardly think so
11:44<Celestar>valhallasw: tried KDE 4.1
11:44<Celestar>Fuco: what do WINAPI specs have to do with it?
11:44<valhallasw>nope. is it better than KDE3? :P
11:45<Celestar>valhallasw: 4.1 is much better imho
11:45<Fuco>i think they released it after the cause against US
11:45<Fuco>with*
11:45<Celestar>well yes, it was one tinyish step to stop monopoly, but by far not enough
11:45<@Rubidium>many people just "pick" windows because they don't have another choice
11:45<Yorick>I found a bug...when planes are autocleared, the runway is not cleared
11:46<Fuco>but its not entirely microsoft's fault
11:46<@Rubidium>Fuco: really?
11:46<Fuco>i mean, 99% of hardware doesn't have drivers for linux for example
11:46<+glx>why a computer is more expensive without windows?
11:46<bruce89>Fuco: not Linux's fault
11:46<@Rubidium>Fuco: that's Microsoft FUD spreading
11:46<+glx>Fuco: most of them don't need it
11:47<Fuco>like some new pretty GFX
11:47<@peter1138>99%? Haha
11:47<Celestar>Fuco: 99%? more like 20%
11:47<@peter1138>1%, more like it.
11:47<@peter1138>And webcams... heh...
11:47<+glx>nvidia provides drivers for linux
11:47<Fuco>since when?
11:47<bruce89>ages
11:47<@Rubidium>reminds me of my old computer
11:47<Celestar>YEARS
11:47<Celestar>so does ATi
11:47<Yorick>...
11:48<Celestar>AMD now
11:48<Fuco>hmm
11:48<@Rubidium>windows couldn't install on it OOTB, linux could (and that was 5 years ago)
11:48<bruce89>AMD/ATi released the specification AFAIK
11:48<hylje>linux tends to have /better/ hardware support than windows these days
11:48<bruce89>to their cards that is
11:48<Yorick>I found a bug...when planes are autocleared, the runway is not cleared
11:48<Fuco>glx: computer is not more expensive without windows
11:48<Celestar>bruce89: yes, except for the 700series, the cards are open hardware
11:48<@Rubidium>Yorick: in what way is it a bug, the runway's removed anyways too
11:49<bruce89>Celestar: I se
11:49<Celestar>bruce89: the 700 series (Radeon 4xxx) will be released next years I think, or something.
11:49-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd691.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
11:49<Yorick>Rubidium: please have some foresight about the future, it is a bug with airports without an owner
11:49<@peter1138>hylje, since Vista, yes.
11:50<Celestar>Vista has hardware support? :P
11:50<@Rubidium>Yorick: there are SOO many things that don't work when you change a few lines
11:50<@peter1138>Vista dropped support for lots of things that previously were supported.
11:50<Fuco>yes vista is evil :(
11:50<frosch123>Celestar: Poke!
11:50<+glx>Yorick: airports always have an owner
11:50<Yorick>Rubidium: but they get working when you change a few extra lines
11:50<Celestar>frosch123: ouch (=
11:50<@Rubidium>Fuco: really, almost everyone getting a new computer takes Vista with it?
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11:51<Fuco>but they can say they doesn't want it
11:51<Fuco>or make a 'barebone' pc
11:51<bruce89>allegedly, 33% have "downgraded" to XP
11:51<@Rubidium>yes, but then you usually (as in 75% of the time) have to pay extra
11:52<+glx>the only way is to build your computer yourself
11:52<+glx>and for most people it's not an option
11:52<Celestar>glx: nope. Lenovo sells their laptops with SLED for example
11:52-!-adam- [~adam__@221.220.56.132] has quit [Quit: Quit]
11:53<Fuco>then im wondering, if windows is so /bad/ and linux so /good/ why it has 1% share
11:53<+glx>Celestar: yes but most don't do it
11:53<Yorick>glx> Yorick: airports always have an owner <-- oilrigs usually not owned
11:54<Celestar>glx: correct.
11:54<@Rubidium>Fuco: because 99% of the people buy whatever they know
11:54<SpComb>is OpenTTD's pathfinder smart enough to pick the right platform for through/terminus trains?
11:54<SpComb>i.e. does it also conider the next order when choosing a platform?
11:54<Fuco>just because Gates was first to see potential of PCs at home, id doesn't mean he is evil
11:54<@peter1138>SpComb, only with YAPP, apparently.
11:54<Fuco>he just followed his 'dream'
11:54<Fuco>and now he is successful
11:54<Fuco>i can't blame him for that
11:54<SpComb>peter1138: YAPP does?
11:54<SpComb>so I don't need checkpoints for through/terminus platforms?
11:55<Celestar>SpComb: why don't you make a testgame and try it (=
11:55<@Rubidium>they go to the shop and say: "I want an apple laptop of acer with windows and a quad core processor"
11:55<SpComb>I am
11:55<@peter1138>That's what I just said.
11:55<Fuco>Rubidium: and that's MS fault?
11:55<@Rubidium>and then get highly disappointed because they can't get it
11:55<@Rubidium>and then the company selling it sells the stuff that they make the most profit off
11:56<@Rubidium>which is selling windows
11:56<Celestar>I've gotta go
11:56<@Rubidium>because they are almost guaranteed return customers with computer problems
11:56<Celestar>peter1138: wanna continue my total cargo view thingy? (=
11:56<Fuco>like with linux computer they wouldn't
11:56<bruce89>you've cracked it
11:56<bruce89>Fuco: depends on your experience
11:57<+glx>Fuco: and it's rarely an hardware problem
11:57<Fuco>but we're talking about _common_ people
11:57<bruce89>in general, you have to break Linuxes
11:57<Celestar>peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/tcw.diff <= it's here
11:57<bruce89>whereas Windows does it of its own volition
11:57<SpComb>I've yet to figure out how to build an effective station that functions as both a through station and a terminus
11:57<Fuco>bruce89: again, it depends on your experience
11:57<@Rubidium>just something funny about Windows: it boots faster and compiles OpenTTD in MSVC in VirtualBox running on Linux than on the raw hardware of my computer
11:58<Fuco>i have the same windows install for 2.5 years now
11:58<Celestar>me too.
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>right... E 16 and long distance coaches... now the game can actually begin ;)
11:58<Celestar>It takes about 2 minutes from BIOS to finished desktop
11:58<bruce89>Fuco: moderately experienced people are better off with Windows, yes
11:58<Celestar>OpenSUSE needs 40 seconds
11:58<@peter1138>Celestar, might take a look. Will be concentrating on my other project for a bit though.
11:58<Yorick>"<Rubidium> Yorick: in what way is it a bug, the runway's removed anyways too" <-- how about oilrigs?
11:58<Celestar>peter1138: pity ;)
11:58<@peter1138>Also figuring out why some payment hasn't gone out.
11:59<Celestar>peter1138: we want that trunkified at some point :P
11:59<@peter1138>Well yes.
11:59<@peter1138>Hopefully in its first incarnation ;)
11:59<@peter1138>(Unlike newstations, many moons ago)
12:02<Celestar>hm?
12:02<Celestar>what happens with newstations
12:02<Celestar>or happened*
12:03<Yorick>SmatZ: about r14107, the problem is the stations that change when reserved...it needs the tile to be marked dirty even when the patch is off
12:04<Celestar>@seen roujin
12:04<@DorpsGek>Celestar: roujin was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 17 hours, 38 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <Roujin> is he thinking at all?
12:05<Celestar>g2
12:05<Celestar>g
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12:06<CIA-5>OpenTTD: smatz * r14109 /trunk/src/pbs.cpp: -Fix (r14107): marking reserved tile dirty is needed for waypoints and stations even when patch option is disabled
12:07<Yorick>not for waypoints...
12:10<@Belugas>why not?
12:11<SpComb>no, they are not capable of picking a terminus platform
12:11<+glx>Yorick: waypoints are like stations for newgrf
12:11<Yorick>ok :)
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12:13<fjb>One of my 727 just crashed. :(
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12:18*SpComb resorted to making trains also reverse at stations
12:19<SpComb>someone needs to figure out a nice way to build combined through/terminus stations in OpenTTD
12:19<ccfreak2k>Use waypoints?
12:19-!-Volley [~worf@84.119.55.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:20<SpComb>cumbersome
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12:22<frosch123>SpComb: remove the order for the through-trains and let them stop using a non non-stop order for the next station
12:22-!-divo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>hm... pf.yapf.rail_station_penalty <- is that per station or per station tile?
12:23<@peter1138>SpComb, terminus platform selection works for me.
12:23<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, tile, I would think.
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>because it's set to 3000, that's a little much per tile...
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>train wants to go through the reserved short platform instead of through the free longer platform...
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12:31<SpComb>frosch123: ooh... right
12:31<SpComb>frosch123: although will that stop terminating trains from using the through platforms?
12:32<frosch123>you could make the through platforms slightly longer as yapp applies penalties when train and station length differs
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12:42<dih>i am having an issue with openttd becoming a zombie process
12:43<dih>but only if run through autopilot in screen
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12:44<dih>any ideas?
12:45<Farden>"use windows"
12:45<Mortal>full screen is buggy?
12:46<@Belugas>cristal ball, cristal ball, tell me waht is the dih's problem...
12:46<@Belugas>go on...
12:46<@Belugas>TELL ME!!
12:47<@peter1138>He's dih. That's the problem.
12:47<Farden>wow... powerfull!
12:48*Farden bows in front of peter1138
12:48<Forked>feed it brains and hope it goes away
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12:51<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r14110 /trunk/src/ (effectvehicle.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix: desyncs due to bubbles in toyland
12:52<Farden>there are still people playing toyland?
12:53<CommanderZ>I will play it once the brickland is finished. It looks gorgeous
13:00<subzero>Which setting in the cfg is used to make a server loop and start over once it reaches it's end year ? for dedicated servers
13:00<subzero>reload_cfg ? seems like restart game year doesnt do the trick
13:00-!-grumbel [~grumbel@i577BA7A6.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
13:01<+glx>subzero: restart_game_year
13:01<subzero>Hmmf
13:01<subzero>:D
13:01<+glx>but it will create a new game
13:02<subzero>Hmm, guess thats where it fails maybe
13:03<subzero>I ran 3 servers earlier today, only 1 is running now
13:03<subzero>maybe something is failing in screen, I cant shift pages after launching a server either
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>gnah... to time this network correctly, i need a formula from km/h to tiles/day
13:06<CommanderZ>from wiki...The game has many rules to make vehicles move fairly realistically. A vehicle travelling at 100 mph (160kph) will cross 5.6 tiles per day.
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13:08<Wolf01>hello
13:12<subzero>If any server techie should appear, let me know! :D
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13:22<fjb>Tut is not the author of the OpenTTD FreeBSD port. :)
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13:28<bruce89>@seen _Ben_
13:28<@DorpsGek>bruce89: _Ben_ was last seen in #openttd 20 weeks, 6 days, 14 hours, 34 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <_Ben_> bye
13:31<Sacro>yes?
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13:47<Brianetta>Belugas: That thing Sacro mentioned to you? Defintiely a bug.
13:48<Sacro>Brianetta: it's running out :(
13:48*Prof_Frink runs out
13:48<Sacro>:'(
13:48<Brianetta>It's just not a show stopper
13:49<@Belugas>definitively LOOKING like a bug...
13:49<@Belugas>not sure yet if it is one
13:49<Brianetta>Belugas: Station spread was increased for that station, then decreased, when the station was walked to a nearby town
13:49<Brianetta>That town's FPP is gone now
13:49<Brianetta>but the other one, with the mystery suplpies, is new
13:49<Brianetta>so it might have inherited something
13:50<@Belugas>could be that
13:50<Brianetta>If you have the save, it was being supplied by Debourne East
13:51<@Belugas>no saves in here
13:51<@Belugas>at home only
13:51<@Belugas>and i was too tired to check stuff over
13:51<Brianetta>which has a walked tile way off in the other direction (:
13:51<Brianetta>I can provide historic saves for the game if you need to check it at various times
13:52<Brianetta>And now, the plant in question has run out of supplies.
13:52<Brianetta>Perhaps it's corrected itself...
13:52<@Belugas>maybe... hard to tell
13:53<Brianetta>Sacro: The FPP onloy received supplies when Debourne's plant was fully stockpiled
13:53<@Belugas>yeah, history saves might be interestng
13:53<@Belugas>indeed, that is waht i've seen
13:53<Brianetta>Surplus being teleported?
13:53<@Belugas>and that is what i've said to Sacro too
13:53<@Belugas>that's waht it looks like
13:53<Brianetta>Could be a new industry cargo acceptance opt-out bug
13:54<@Belugas>that or a feature request been accepted
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14:06<Brianetta>Damned waypoint desync bug struck again
14:06<Brianetta>It was *my* waypoint this time
14:09<Yorick>have not discovered it yet
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14:37<Eddi|zuHause>i need a station on a bridge :(
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>or a tram station in a tunnel :(
14:37<Brianetta>Had to change compute
14:37<Brianetta>r
14:45<@peter1138>Rrrrr!
14:45<hylje>ARRRRR
14:45<Ailure>so guys
14:46<Ailure>how do I use the money in openTTD outside of the game
14:46<Ailure>I could need a new car
14:46<Ailure>:)
14:46<|Jeroen|>retrace the steps u used to build your tansport empire and do it in the real world to
14:47<Ailure>I would need a time machine in other words
14:47<|Jeroen|>yes
14:47<@peter1138>Feh... always blaming it on the time machine...
14:48<|Jeroen|>i bet i can find one on ebay
14:48<Wolf01>no bank will lend him so many money for that project
14:49<|Jeroen|>dunno if you send then your savegames they may
14:49<Wolf01>I already tried to purchase a piece of Syberia to build an ALU with trains like the one made with OTTD
14:49<hylje>transport infrastructure is overprized
14:50<hylje>priced, even
14:50<Ammler>why is cargo dest not a "official" branch ot openttd?
14:50<Fuco>i dont think you can buy 400km of rails for 90 bucks
14:50<Fuco>like in game
14:50<Fuco>so "<|Jeroen|> dunno if you send then your savegames they may" < false :D
14:50<+glx>Ammler: why not?
14:50<hylje>Ammler: not stable enough
14:51<Ammler>not in svn.openttd.org/branches/
14:51<+glx>hg is good enough for this kind of stuff
14:51<@peter1138>Better is the word I'd use.
14:51<+glx>right
14:52<+glx>the only "problem" is all the merge
14:52<@peter1138>That happens with svn branches anyway.
14:52<+glx>was fun when I did some things for it
14:53<Ammler>is there now a better way to create a svn patch?
14:53<+glx>better than what?
14:53<Ammler>then diff -u <svn> <hg>
14:54<+glx>hg diff can do that I think (but I don't know what to pass to it)
14:54<@peter1138>hg diff -r <lasttrunkmerge>
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14:58<Ammler>peter1138: that would output the changes since that merge
14:58<Ammler>but cargo dest is much more...
14:59<@Belugas>yeah, it's an icon in openttd history
14:59<@Belugas>heeer...
14:59<@Belugas>hein?
14:59<bruce89>that explains why git.openttd.org didn't bother itself
15:00<@peter1138>Ammler, no, last revision with "svn rxxxx" in it
15:00<@peter1138>06f295088a7d at the moment.
15:01<@peter1138>Err
15:01<@peter1138>I mean ccea23aec951 :o
15:01<@peter1138>Had the wrong one highlighted :)
15:01<+glx>the one before the merge
15:02<Ammler>and what about the patches before that merge?
15:02<+glx>Ammler: there are 2 heads until the merge commit
15:05<Ammler>glx: 2 heads like 2 branches?
15:05<+glx>like that yes
15:05<Prof_Frink>zomghydra
15:05<Ammler>so I need to tell hg also to diff that?
15:05<@peter1138>No.
15:05<@peter1138>"hg diff -r ccea23aec951" is all you need.
15:06<+glx>you just need it to diff current with the rev before merge
15:06<Ammler>that sounds too easy :-)
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15:10<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14111 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Fix (r2572): [strgen] Changing order of parameters {X:...} did not work for strings including some {StringY}.
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15:24<Ammler>how to convert a "-p1" patch to "-p0"?
15:25<frosch123>apply it and rediff?
15:25<bruce89>why would you want to?
15:25<Ammler>thought of that.. :-)
15:25<Ammler>to make it compatible with BOTTD
15:25<frosch123>you could also use sed though
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15:28<ln>Ammler: edit the paths
15:29<Ammler>ln, that is obvious, I was looking, if patch has option for that, but sed might help...
15:31<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14112 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf_gui.cpp): -Fix (r13715)[FS#2232]: Action B custom messages with parameteers were broken.
15:34<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14113 /trunk/src/lang/ (35 files): -Codechange: Language updates for r14112.
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15:53<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14114 /trunk/src/signs.cpp: -Fix [FS#2242]: Sign list was not properly updated on removal of signs.
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15:58<Wolf01>'night
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16:01<Eddi|zuHause>the biasing of the destinations based on station size, was that ever implemented?
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16:11<@Belugas>hein?
16:16-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-228-27.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
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16:17<Eddi|zuHause>more people want to go to a station in the city, than to one in a village
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>supposedly balancing out that more people come from that city station
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>making the destinations more symmetric
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>only it isn't really working... my local trains always leave the city full, and arrive at the city empty#
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16:44<fjb>r14073noai has a bug in YAPP. I have one station where it forgets to clear the reserved tracks.
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16:45<+glx>fjb: it's fixed in trunk I think
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16:45<fjb>Ok, then I have to wait till noai gets synchronized to trunk again.
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16:51<fjb>Oh, one town has a McDonalds drive in for trams.
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16:55<fjb>I need a ship set that knows abouit new cargos.
16:59<+glx>fjb: I'll do a sync tomorrow before the compile time
16:59<fjb>That would be great.
17:00<fjb>I can't play without YAPP anymore.
17:01<+glx>hmm but the only fix for YAPP I can see is r14103 ad it's not related to stations
17:01<+glx>so maybe it's a trunk bug, but you'll need to reproduce it in trunk
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17:04<fjb>I don't know what causes the bug. It always happens at only one station.
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17:20<Sacro>zerocool!
17:20<@Rubidium>Aston DB9?
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17:27<Eddi|zuHause><fjb> I need a ship set that knows abouit new cargos. <- i thought there was a newships enhancement like for the dbset?
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17:37<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14115 /trunk/ (Makefile.bundle Makefile.msvc os/win32/installer/install.nsi): -Codechange: add make bundle_exe which makes a windows installer and unify the files that go into the bundles (zip/gz/bz2 etc) and installer.
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17:43<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: fjb
17:43<Ammler>it is called "nshp_ecs.grf"
17:44<Amixbook>hey
17:53-!-MsG [~mathijs@ip175-172-59-62.adsl.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
17:53<MsG>hi guys
17:53<MsG>I was wondering
17:54<MsG>I use Ubuntu and Windows Xp
17:54<MsG>both same version of OTTD
17:54<MsG>can I exchange savegames?
17:54<MsG>without trouble?
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes
17:54<MsG>cool
17:54<MsG>even if it werent same version?
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>you can load older savegames in newer version
17:54<MsG>because the repisotory of ubuntu has a lower ottd
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>but not the other way
17:54<MsG>but i downloaded the newest
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if there was a savegame difference between 0.6.2 and 0.6.1
17:55<MsG>I use both the same version atm
17:56<MsG>when will the new graphics be implemented
17:56<MsG>maybe I can make some new buildings with my Google Sketchup skills :P
17:56<Ammler>MsG: you can also download newer deb from the official ottd download page
17:57<MsG>yeah I did
17:57<MsG>but the deb build has a filename like 6.2-1 and the windows just 6.2
17:57<MsG>just the name I think?
17:57<Ammler>that is the same
17:58<MsG>What are the requirements of being a graphic guy to develop a building or two?
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could first paint it, and then post in the graphics forum that you search for a coder
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>or you can read up on the new graphics specs
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>on http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=NewGraphicsSpecs
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18:09<MsG>paint it? I see they are al modeled
18:10<fjb>Ammler: The nshp_ecs.grf is not enginepool aware.
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18:13<Eddi|zuHause>well... whatever they call "painting" nowadays, i mean "make it into a picture" :)
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>hm... the schedule of my local train has the same length as that of the express train...
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18:15<MsG>any modelers online?
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you find those around here
18:17<MsG>ok
18:17<MsG>Any dutch guys
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18:19<fjb>Are articulated road vehicles not able to overtake?
18:19<ln>tågets yttre dörrar kan först öppnas när tåget har stannat och dörrens gröna signallampa brinner.
18:19<fjb>Döner im Wald machen Signallampen schöner?
18:20<ln>hier essen, bitte.
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18:24<Eddi|zuHause>"grüner", nicht "schöner" ;)
18:26<bruce89>MsG: the -1 means Debian revision number 1
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18:33<Brianetta>Sacro: You have 35k on teh game now
18:34<ln>where are the photos of the meeting?
18:43<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14116 /trunk/Doxyfile: -Change [Doxygen]: making man-pages of the exports of the source isn't very useful as OpenTTD isn't a library.
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18:48<SpComb>hmm... drive through McDonalds for trams?
18:48<SpComb>I don't see that being all too profitable
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18:52<fjb>You are right. It already closed its service.
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20:02<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14117 /trunk/configure:
20:02<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix: compile failing because the language files can't be copied to the right
20:02<CIA-5>OpenTTD: directory when piping the output because during configure a wrong path would be
20:02<CIA-5>OpenTTD: written in a variable when passing the output into a file under MinGW. You get
20:02<CIA-5>OpenTTD: it? well, I do not.
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21:10<fjb>That path reservation bug is really strange. Looks like the trains clears the reservation for the platform it just left only to reserve it again, but not the entire platform. The last tile of the platform which is the furthest away from the train doesn't get reserved.
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21:42<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r14118 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h vehiclelist.cpp): -Fix(r14104): typos creeping like bugs
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22:08<Sacro>what's that data type that's like an enum
22:08<Sacro>but assigns them to 1,2,4,8 etc
22:08<Sacro>so you can or them and and them
22:09<+glx>you can do that with an enum
22:09<Sacro>but not by default
22:09<Sacro>or is that how you'd do it?
22:09<+glx>(that's how it's done in openttd)
22:10<+glx>using 1<<x values
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22:13<Sacro>yeah
22:15<ben_goodger>monring
22:18<@Belugas>good <your-part-of-day> ben :)
22:19<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r14119 /trunk/src/waypoint.cpp: -Fix(r14104): Forgot to make the gui disappear when the waypoint is deleted. Smatz pointing
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---Logclosed Thu Aug 21 00:00:08 2008