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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-08-27

---Logopened Wed Aug 27 00:00:17 2008
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01:26<Forked>meep meep
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02:38-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0DA34D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
02:38<Celestar>morning
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02:39<planetmaker>morning
02:41<Forked>morning =)
02:41<Forked>Celestar: thanks again for cargodest btw.. now I'm late for work =p
02:41<Celestar>hahaha
02:41<Celestar>I know that problem
02:41<Celestar>planetmaker: did the game run yesterday? (=
02:42<planetmaker>Celestar: I think so as server was running :) But I wasn't around yesterday evening, so I don't really know how much was played
02:43*Celestar goes lookin
02:43<Celestar>lol
02:43<Celestar>1st Jan 1930
02:46<Celestar>ok we need a REAL playtest :P
02:50<Celestar>er.. *boom*
02:51<Celestar>planetmaker: you can terminate the server :P
02:52<planetmaker>oh... :(
02:52-!-clochette [~clochette@ANantes-257-1-135-233.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
02:53<Celestar>planetmaker: it crashes as soon as you build a station :P
02:53<planetmaker>well. Doesn't hurt to have it keep running...
02:53<planetmaker>oh, really? Well, then :(
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02:56<Celestar>I'm just fixing it
03:06<Celestar>it's fix0red
03:07<Noldo>great!
03:11*Celestar requests a feature
03:14<Forked>hah, made it. two minutes to spare
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03:18<Celestar>lol
03:19<Forked>and I got breakfast to go.. *munch munch*
03:22<Celestar>heh
03:23<Celestar>the cargodest wiki is growing and growing (=
03:24<Ammler>yeah, it is a stub :-P
03:24<Ammler>morning btw.
03:24<Forked>I'm trying something new (for me) .. building a huge transfer station in the middle of nowhere
03:24<Celestar>Ammler: I've removed the stub template long ago (=
03:24<Ammler>nah
03:25<Celestar>like .. yesterday :P
03:25<Celestar>Ammler: I've made another critical fix to cargodest
03:25<Forked>so far, so good..
03:27-!-Greyscale [~Greyscale@host86-131-29-29.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
03:27<Greyscale>Hey. I'm trying to set the terrain type on my server running 0.6.2
03:27<Greyscale>to smooth
03:27<Greyscale>I can't work out what I'm supposed to change in openttd.cfg
03:28<Celestar>Greyscale: tgen_smoothness
03:28<Celestar>Greyscale: in the [game_creation] section
03:29<Greyscale>But what do I change it too? (also: 'snot in th wiki
03:29<Celestar>Greyscale: find out and add it to the wiki?
03:29<Greyscale>Effort...
03:29<Greyscale>I should
03:29<Greyscale>but I'd probably dick it up.
03:30<Celestar>0 is very smooth, 3 is very rought
03:30<Celestar>rough*
03:30<Greyscale>OK
03:31<Greyscale>Hmm
03:31<Greyscale>is it possible to give a user money?
03:31<Forked>note to self: start moving mail as well
03:32<Celestar>Greyscale: not that I know of
03:32<Celestar>(=
03:32<Greyscale>dang
03:32<Greyscale>Also: When is the rail rent stuff going to come?
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03:34<Celestar>Greyscale: no idea.
03:34<Celestar>Greyscale: I guess not before cargodest is in (=
03:34-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5FA91.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
03:34<Celestar>and that's large enough a project as it is
03:35<Greyscale>I played a modified version at one point that had it
03:35<Greyscale>worked really nice
03:35<Greyscale>cargodest?
03:35<Greyscale>Oh, Cargo Dest
03:35<Celestar>yeah
03:35<Greyscale>I read Car God Est
03:35<Celestar>lol
03:37<Celestar>any that's one of a few big things that are currently going on (=
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03:50<Forked>I stole your smiley, Celestar ... and now I'm driving people who know me insane \:
03:50<Celestar>haha
03:55<Celestar>meh
03:56<Celestar>I don't know how to factor out this code :S
04:03<@peter1138>Delete it.
04:03<@peter1138>It's out then :)
04:03<Celestar>http://rafb.net/p/97ZLeV64.html <= mean those snippets
04:03<Celestar>and no, a macro is not an option
04:03<@peter1138>Seems simple enough to create a couple of functions for that.
04:03<Celestar>you mean just static functions in RoutingBase_t
04:03<@peter1138>No, just regular functions.
04:04-!-nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
04:05<Celestar>eww..ugly
04:05<Celestar>(=
04:05<Celestar>they should be member functions
04:06<@peter1138>Why?
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04:07<Celestar>peter1138: because they handle the routing system?
04:20<@peter1138>blathijs, when can we have variable size pool items? :)
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04:20<Celestar>peter1138: when do we use std::list instead of pools? :P
04:21<@peter1138>When it's faster.
04:21<@peter1138>As std::list does not allow random access, that may be never :p
04:22<Celestar>std::map then :P
04:22<Celestar>or std::vector
04:24<Celestar>hm .. this factoring out must work with pointers to member functions somehow
04:26<@peter1138>...
04:27<@peter1138>RoutingBase_t::blahorderlistblah(mask, orderlist);
04:27<Celestar>I'm just wondering whether we could have a RoutingBase_t::DoSomething(mask, orderlist, TheFunctionToCall)
04:28<@peter1138>I don't think do.
04:28<@peter1138>*so
04:28<Celestar>the reason being?
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05:04<@peter1138>:486
05:05<@peter1138>That'll be the wrong window :D
05:05<Celestar>peter1138: that ok? RoutingBase_t::ProcessOrder(&RoutingBase_t::ProcessOrderListRemoval, new_first->orders, new_first->type, mask_new);
05:05<Celestar>;)
05:05<TrueBrain>lol @ peter1138 :)
05:06*Pikka loves YAPP :O
05:07<@peter1138>\o/
05:08<@peter1138>Apparently some people don't :o
05:09<@peter1138>They want options ... to disable it ...
05:09<@Rubidium> /o\ -o- \o/ -o- /o\ ?
05:09<Forked>\o \o| |o| |o/ /o/
05:09<Forked>well that concludes todays workout
05:09<@peter1138>uint32 GetRandomBits();
05:09<@peter1138>uint32 GetTriggers();
05:09<@peter1138>void SetTriggers(int);
05:09<@peter1138>uint32 GetVariable(uint8, uint8, bool *);
05:09<@peter1138>err
05:10<@peter1138>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=97605 < That just looks silly :o
05:13<Celestar>who does't like it?
05:13<Celestar>any why?
05:13<@Rubidium>me, but you haven't seen the other screenshots
05:16<Celestar>Rubidium: what don't you like about YAPP?
05:16<@Rubidium>oh, I thought you were talkin about peter1138's screenshot
05:17<Celestar>what looks silly about it? the half football-field?
05:20<Celestar>TrueBrain: you got a sec?
05:20<TrueBrain>sure
05:20<Celestar>TrueBrain: I've got a diff for cargodest but I'm not sure it works on gcc 2.95.3 (it should according to what I read). Is there any way we can try it on the compile farm before committing?
05:22<TrueBrain>Celestar: currently, pretty hard
05:22<TrueBrain>but give me the url (of the complete patch against a SVN), and I can try it for you
05:22<TrueBrain>nevertheless, 'soon' you should be able to do it yourself
05:23<Celestar>TrueBrain: then I'll wait
05:23<TrueBrain>I have no problems running it for you :)
05:23<TrueBrain>but, it is up to you :)
05:24<@peter1138>Half football-field?
05:25<Celestar>TrueBrain: http://www.fvfischer.de/ptrmemfunc.diff
05:25<Celestar>peter1138: Rubidium: http://www.fvfischer.de/ptrmemfunc.diff <= you like that as out-factoring?
05:25<TrueBrain>you have a patch against a svn?
05:25<Celestar>peter1138: what do you think looks silly about the screenshit
05:25<Celestar>TrueBrain: I'll try to make one (=
05:31-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-115-128.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
05:33<Celestar>ok TrueBrain here we go: http://www.fvfischer.de/rnsvn14177.diff
05:35<Pikka>peter: while you're at it: wagon retirement :P
05:36<TrueBrain>/compile_farm/openttd/nightly/manual/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: In function `class CommandCost CmdRefitAircraft(unsigned int, unsigned int, unsigned int, unsigned int)':
05:36<TrueBrain>/compile_farm/openttd/nightly/manual/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:625: no matching function for call to `RoutingBase_t::ProcessOrderListRemoval (Order *&, VehicleTypeByte &)'
05:36<TrueBrain>/compile_farm/openttd/nightly/manual/src/routing.h:108: candidates are: void RoutingBase_t::ProcessOrderListRemoval(const Order *)
05:36<Celestar>any comments about that diff?
05:36<Celestar>er.
05:36<Celestar>shit
05:37<Celestar>TrueBrain: please reload diff :S, forgot to add some files (btw src/routing* need removal before reapplying)
05:37<TrueBrain>and you didn't add my other gcc 2.95 fix yet? :)
05:37<Celestar>er?
05:37<Celestar>which one might that be?
05:37<TrueBrain>which I told you a few days ago :)
05:37<TrueBrain>about template-depth
05:38<Celestar>er crap
05:38<Celestar>sorry haven't committed it yet :oi
05:38<Celestar>:o*
05:38-!-fjb [~frank@p5485C370.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
05:38<TrueBrain>no problem, just pointing it out :)
05:38<fjb>Hello
05:40<@peter1138>Wagon retirement... Hmm.
05:40<fjb>Yeah.
05:41<@peter1138>Optional or always on?
05:41<fjb>Always!
05:41<fjb>Like the lokomotives.
05:42<fjb>It only has to be clear what parts of the train needs ubgrading.
05:43<fjb>upgrading.
05:44<TrueBrain>Celestar: a value of 50 is btw enough
05:44<TrueBrain>recompiling, but your patch appears to work
05:44<Pikka>peter: optional via "vehicles never expire", of course :)
05:45<Pikka>I'm talking about obsolete wagons being removed from the buy menu, not old wagons needing replacing, fjb
05:46<fjb>Oh.
05:46<Brianetta>peter1138: Wagon retirement? Do it like real railways
05:46<Brianetta>Never sell stock
05:46<TrueBrain>Celestar: works :) You should also check MSVC :p
05:46<Brianetta>Just park it somewhere, and let weeds grow through the axles
05:47<Brianetta>Then, when you really need an old two axle truck, you just have to hack the convolvulus off it.
05:49<Celestar>TrueBrain: yeah
05:49<Brianetta>There should be an extra number in a train's newgrf: Date at which the nostalgia value makes this train increase station ratings again
05:49<Celestar>glx pinjg
05:49<Celestar>ping*
05:49<@Rubidium>Celestar: how do you expect that to work?
05:49<TrueBrain>and currently I can only feed svn, hg, or git urls in the compile-farm :)
05:51<Celestar>Rubidium: it does?
05:51<Celestar>Rubidium: a pointer to a member function is NOT just a pointer.
05:51<@Rubidium>Celestar: I meant the ping to glx
05:51<Celestar>Rubidium: oh ... it doesnt :P
05:51<Celestar>I just kind of expected him to be here.
05:52<Celestar>does he have some MSVC6 to test?
05:52<Celestar>I'm _sure_ it fails there :P
05:52<Brianetta>Rubidium: Were you on the Bonsai tour?
05:52<@Rubidium>14:00-04:00 is more like his time (DST)
05:52<Celestar>yah
05:52<@Rubidium>Celestar: even plain OTTD fails on MSVC
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05:52<TrueBrain>Celestar: why you expect it to fail so badly?
05:52<TrueBrain>there isn't any weird stuff going on in your patch
05:52<@Rubidium>Brianetta: depending which bonsai tour you mean, it might be a yes
05:52<TrueBrain>(Well, not as weird as NoAI has with templates)
05:53<Brianetta>Rubidium: http://www.inter-actief.utwente.nl/studiereis/bonsai/joomla/component/option,com_comprofiler/task,userProfile/user,65/Itemid,67/
05:53<Brianetta>That you ? (:
05:53<Celestar>TrueBrain: erm ... pointer to member functions are just rarely used. And even simple nested classes fail badly in MSVC6 :S
05:53<TrueBrain>Celestar: you should check uit the Squirrel layer in NoAI for fun :p
05:53<Celestar>ok will do :P
05:53<@Rubidium>Brianetta: more like a bad photo of me :(
05:53<TrueBrain>squirrel_helper.hpp
05:53<TrueBrain>it has some nice and nasty templates :p
05:53<@peter1138>Brianetta, well, wagon obsoletion then. Making it so you can't purchase old wagons.
05:54<Brianetta>I have family in Japan
05:54<Brianetta>peter1138: It's already possible, isn't it?
05:54<@peter1138>Nope, wagons stay forever.
05:54<@peter1138>To do it, remove 4 lines of code.
05:54<Brianetta>oh
05:55<Brianetta>So they do have a date, but it's just not enacted?
05:55<@peter1138>Basically the if-block around CalcEngineReliability(e) in engine.cpp
05:55<@peter1138>Hmm, unless wagon life is determined some other way :o
05:56<Brianetta>They don't have reliability
05:56<Brianetta>but do age
05:56<@peter1138>Only because it's not shown.
05:56<Brianetta>Can refit options be configured so taht you can refit passenger wagons as "refurbished?"
05:57<Brianetta>So they'd basically act as new
05:57<Brianetta>but have the same specs
05:57<@peter1138>Hmm.
05:57<Brianetta>Old wagons do harm passenger ratings
05:57<@peter1138>Actually life_length is separate.
05:58<@peter1138>Auto renew for wagons, indeed.
05:59<Brianetta>Well, I try not to autorenew anything
05:59<Brianetta>I like to look after my trains, and have fewer of them.
06:00<@peter1138>Oh.
06:00<Brianetta>but I'd like to manually refurbish them (:
06:00*Brianetta often names his trains
06:03<Celestar>Rubidium: so I can assume we don't support MSVC6 anymore?
06:03<@peter1138>We haven't done for ages.
06:04<TrueBrain>weird, we do support gcc2.95, but MSVC6 is too broken to support in any way :p
06:04<TrueBrain>I guess we can state GCC is a tiny bit better than MSVC?
06:05<Celestar>TrueBrain: MSVC++ is quite decent from version 7 on
06:05*Celestar wonders how much faster ottd would be when he compiled with pgC++ or pathscale C++ (=
06:05<TrueBrain>I wasn't complaining about that :) Just notcing that _very-old-version-of_ gcc works fine, and _very-old-version-of_MSVC is broken :p
06:05<TrueBrain>icc can't even compile OpenTTD ...
06:06<Celestar>TrueBrain: it used to, where does it failed?
06:07<TrueBrain>well, 'fine' is a bit too much .. we need to alter preprocessor code of gcc 2.95 in order to allow 2d static arrays .. but that are minor details ;)
06:07<TrueBrain>Celestar: can't remember ... it needed a bit of patching before it could compile the whole code
06:07<TrueBrain>and that was before C++ ... :p
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06:11<Celestar>heh
06:12<Celestar>vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd-cargodest]> hg diff -rfca6f9cf02ac | wc -l
06:12<Celestar>5308
06:12<Celestar>That's a nice monster I've made there :S
06:13-!-Pikka is now known as Pikka|wut
06:13<TrueBrain>does it also makes noices?
06:14<Celestar>I was actually trying to keep intrusion MINIMAL :S
06:14<TrueBrain>5308 lines can be minimal . .depending on how much is in new files :)
06:14<Celestar>quite a lot
06:15<TrueBrain>like NoAI is most likely even bigger, still the trunk footprint is very small
06:15<Celestar>most changes to existing files is the cargopacket handling code (of course) and of course, GUI
06:15<TrueBrain>(Well, if you ignore the rm -rf ai/ )
06:15<Celestar>hahaha
06:15<Celestar>oh. and 300 added lines of console commands :P
06:16<Celestar>I still wonder whether I wanna commit that graphviz interface for cargodest
06:16<TrueBrain>I Wonder if I want to test cargodest, or that it will drive me crazy :p
06:16<Celestar>why should it drive you crazy
06:17<TrueBrain>even more thinking :)
06:17<Celestar>http://www.fvfischer.de/rn.png <= do we want that? :P
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06:18<TrueBrain>for me, I doubt it would add any value
06:18<Celestar>TrueBrain: we *could* add that to the server info page (=
06:19<TrueBrain>:s
06:19<TrueBrain>we could also just paint you yellow and call you a banana!
06:19<Celestar>I'm too fat :P
06:19<Celestar>LOL
06:19<TrueBrain>and you can still dance? :p
06:19<xintron>What variable should I change to edit how hilly a map is in the openttd.cfg?
06:20<TrueBrain>there isn't even a youtube with the title "paint me yellow and call me a banana"
06:20<TrueBrain>:(
06:20<Celestar>xintron: haha
06:20<xintron>Celestar: ?
06:21<Celestar>xintron: sorry that was meant for TrueBrain
06:21<Celestar>xintron: terrain_type ?
06:21<TrueBrain>lol :)
06:22<Celestar>xintron: in [difficulty]
06:22<Celestar>I also have quite some footprint in economy.cpp
06:22<Celestar>we actually made that file readable in parts :P
06:23<TrueBrain>Celestar: NOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooo
06:23<TrueBrain>HOW COULD YOU!
06:24<TrueBrain>hmm .. reminds me of all the rewrites we did to all kinds of files to make them readable ... which were never applied, as they died in the newmap branch :(
06:24<Celestar>youre "No" lost intensity halfway down ...
06:24<TrueBrain>Celestar: I was falling in a deep deep deep deep pit
06:24*Celestar thinks back to rev 800 .. of the old repo.
06:24<Celestar>The code IS readable now :P
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06:24<TrueBrain>true
06:24<TrueBrain>Doxygen disagrees btw
06:24<TrueBrain>1.4MB of complains
06:24<TrueBrain>:p
06:24<Celestar>yeah
06:24<Celestar>I know
06:24<Celestar>same here :P
06:25<TrueBrain>someone should fix that
06:25<TrueBrain>like: WARNING = FALSE
06:25<TrueBrain>:p
06:25<Celestar>:P
06:25<Celestar>someone should review cargodest
06:25<Celestar>I can't review my own dif
06:25<Celestar>f
06:25<@peter1138>We should see what can apply to trunk.
06:25<TrueBrain>you can, but that would be rather silly
06:26<TrueBrain>I should be doing something useful, but ..
06:26<Celestar>peter1138: context?
06:27<Celestar>BAH
06:27<Celestar>SGI's super-box died again. And with it, my computations :S
06:28<TrueBrain>:s
06:28<Forked>didn't that happen like two days ago as well?
06:28<Celestar>Forked: yes!!!
06:31<Celestar>it happens like twice a week
06:31<Celestar>no wait, we once had 5 weeks uptime without interruption
06:32<TrueBrain>who makes it crash? :)
06:33<Celestar>I dunno
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06:38<@peter1138>:617
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06:38<@peter1138>Again :o
06:38<TrueBrain>at least you are no longer refering to any old computer :p
06:38<Celestar>heh
06:39<Forked>Celestar: five days.. during vacation when everybody was away? =p
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06:40<Celestar>Forked: weeks :P
06:41<Forked>oh, but still
06:41<TrueBrain>you guys have long vacations
06:41<Celestar>peter1138: I've once drawn a button for the minimap display of routing. are we going to use it or not?
06:41<Forked>five weeks is fairly normal in Norway
06:41<Celestar>what are vacations? Are they are private/proteced member of the "RealLife" class?
06:42<TrueBrain>very private
06:42<TrueBrain>rarely protected
06:42<Celestar>I don't have an instance of RealLife
06:42<Celestar>I have: WorkLife, OpenttdLife, DanceLife
06:43<TrueBrain>did you look in /proc/mem?
06:43<Celestar>nah just browing through my source code
06:44<TrueBrain>see, there is your problem!
06:44<TrueBrain>there was never any source codeof your RealLife
06:44<TrueBrain>it was created in asm!
06:44<TrueBrain>directly injected in /proc/mem!
06:44<Celestar>p Milkyway->GetStar("Sol")->GetPlanet(3)->GetLifeForm("HomoSapiens")->GetInvididual("Celestar")->HasRealLife();
06:44<Celestar>$0 = false
06:45<TrueBrain>clearly there is some data corruption
06:45<TrueBrain>but what do you want with such large arrays
06:46<Ammler>heya TrueBrain
06:47<Ammler>http://paste.openttd.org/ is full of spam and still ISeer :-)
06:47<TrueBrain>both true I guess :)
06:47<Ammler>stupid guys to fill a paste service...
06:47<Celestar>actually it should be: (gdb) p this->Galaxy("Milkyway")->Star("Sol")->Planet(3)->LifeForm("HomoSapiens")->Invididual("Celestar")->HasRealLife();
06:47<TrueBrain>Ammler: very useless :p
06:48<Forked>Celestar: bored? =p
06:48<Ammler>how does SVN determine if a binary file is updated?
06:48<Ammler>just md5?
06:48<Celestar>Forked: no. just copying 800GB of data from cluster to visualization station
06:48<Forked>why did I get the song "cry me a river" in my head now with the lyrics "code me a river" ? :\
06:48<TrueBrain>wrong channel Ammler :p
06:48<Celestar>and even tho I do about 120MB/sec it takes some time (=
06:49<Ammler>only Mercurial questions here? :P
06:49<TrueBrain>no, only things we know the answer to :p
06:49<Celestar>hah
06:49<Celestar>Ammler: we'll need to recompile openttdcoop dev server
06:50<Ammler>easy task
06:50<Ammler>I just need svn rev and patch :-)
06:50<Celestar>and you'll get it
06:50<TrueBrain>use hg :p
06:50<Ammler>TrueBrain: the dev server is for "public" testing
06:50<TrueBrain>so?
06:51<Ammler>well, hg would be easier to use then the boost thing... :-)
06:51<TrueBrain>for cargodest? I strongly suggest to use the hg revision
06:51<@peter1138>Hmm, there's a Random() in the middle of IndustryGetVariable() :o
06:51-!-flowOver [~J@S01060016e65abad7.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
06:51<Celestar>peter1138: ?
06:51<Celestar>peter1138: that bad?
06:51<@peter1138>Is that safe? :)
06:51<@peter1138>I don't know.
06:52<Ammler>well, majority asked for svn, and because it is that easy to create a svn patch, why not...
06:52<TrueBrain>Ammler: it is weird.. besides, there are enough binaries for the hg revisio :)
06:53<Celestar>peter1138: it sounds like a newgrf thingy. I have no idea.
06:53-!-elmex [~elmex@e180064246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
06:53<TrueBrain>Ammler: just because a crow is used to one thing, doesn't mean you need to feed it to them over and over :)
06:53<Ammler>true
06:53<Celestar>Ammler: http://www.fvfischer.de/rnsvn14177.diff
06:54<TrueBrain>Ammler: upside of the hg version is that it is unique, even for the same svn version
06:55<Ammler>is that the reason, there ars so many hg revs more?
06:56<TrueBrain>Ammler: I hope you are making a joke ;)
06:57<Celestar>because me and peter1138 are committing left, right and center?
06:57<@peter1138>Yeah, someone's misinterpreted the spec.
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06:58<Ammler>TrueBrain: if you checkout trunk fresh with hg, you got a lot more changesets then svn revs.
06:58<TrueBrain>Ammler: so you weren't joking ;) Hehe :) Sorry :)
06:58<Ammler>:-)
06:58<TrueBrain>Ammler: the hg is a svn version, with all the commits of Celestar and peter1138
06:58<TrueBrain>so yes, there are MANY more revisions I hope :p
06:59<LA[Lord]>hai everybody
06:59<Ammler>TrueBrain: I am speaking of trunk
06:59<TrueBrain>ah, that should be the same
06:59<Ammler>hmm
06:59<TrueBrain>even less
06:59<TrueBrain>it is
06:59<Ammler>I thought, I had about 18k
06:59<TrueBrain>changeset 10018 2b0910cbba27
06:59*LA[Lord] thinks he should download a nightly.. His latest installed version is 0.6.0 :o
07:00<TrueBrain>14177 is hg 10018 (trunk)
07:00<TrueBrain>(as trunk.hg doesn't contain the commits of the branches)
07:00<Ammler>yeah, saw that too
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07:00<@peter1138>Hmm.
07:00<TrueBrain>changeset 19723 <- Celestar's branch has 9000 commits more :p
07:00<TrueBrain>haha
07:00<@peter1138>Yeah, cos someone reimported hg :o
07:01<TrueBrain>Merge from peter
07:01<TrueBrain>Merge from peter
07:01<TrueBrain>Merge from peter
07:01<TrueBrain>Merge from celestar
07:01<TrueBrain>haha
07:01<TrueBrain>:)
07:01<@peter1138>We sync a lot ;)
07:01<dih>cute
07:01<dih>we are sinking we are sinking
07:01<@peter1138>No, sync.
07:01<dih>what are you sinking about?
07:02<@peter1138>How funny.
07:02<TrueBrain>peter1138: someone indeed fucked up imorting :p Hehehehe :)
07:02*dih is gonna watch e10 of s05 (friends) :-)
07:03<dih>hmm... i'll make a sandwich first :-)
07:03<@peter1138>People still watch Friends?
07:03<@peter1138>Crazy talk.
07:03<TrueBrain>you are just jelous
07:03<TrueBrain>(how do you write that word :s)
07:03<@peter1138>Jealous, usually.
07:04<TrueBrain>so I had it almost right
07:04<TrueBrain>:)
07:04*TrueBrain is all proud and stuff
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07:05<@peter1138>Yes, but you still had it wrong.
07:05<TrueBrain>ALMOST right is ... still wrong .. yes ..
07:05<TrueBrain>why you have to put it in my face like that :(
07:05<Forked>But he was aware it was wrong
07:05<@peter1138>:)
07:05<TrueBrain>peter1138: you start to sound slightly sarcastic ;) :p
07:05<Celestar>TrueBrain: yeah there has been some problem merging cargodest when yapp was trunkified or whatever
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07:06<TrueBrain>Celestar: and the fact that we reimported hg didn't had anything to do with it? :)
07:07*dih hugs TrueBrain
07:07<Celestar>TrueBrain: maybe, maybe not
07:07<TrueBrain>oeh! :$ :)
07:08<TrueBrain>Celestar: hehe :) We redid the hg and git imports a few times in the last month or so :)
07:08<TrueBrain>most people never notice that, but a merge kind of screws up ;)
07:08<Celestar>just a bit, yeah
07:08<Celestar>no problem
07:09*TrueBrain loves K's Choice
07:10<Ammler>Celestar: server is up
07:10<Ammler>is it latest hg?
07:10<Celestar>mesa tink so
07:11<Ammler>(with the forgotten things?)
07:12<TrueBrain>Celestar: don't forget the MorphOS fix ;)
07:13<TrueBrain>Ammler: you should at least postfix the version with -cargodest
07:13<TrueBrain>sigh.. here we are, creating all kind of cool systems .. there the users are, bypassing it all :p
07:13<TrueBrain>hehehe
07:13<Ammler>TrueBrain: that is up to the patcher
07:13<Celestar>TrueBrain: where was it?
07:13<TrueBrain>Celestar: in your IRC log :p
07:13<Celestar>mesa no have such a thing
07:13<Celestar>me->lunch();
07:14<Ammler>Celestar: patch rev.cpp.in with a suffix
07:14<TrueBrain>Ammler: or you could jsut use the hg source :p
07:14<TrueBrain>hehe
07:14<Ammler>(next time :-)
07:14<TrueBrain>the idea of those systems is that they are automated ;)
07:15<TrueBrain>Celestar: http://paste.openttd.org/65829
07:15<Ammler>TrueBrain: @@VERSION@@-cargodest should work
07:15<Ammler>or however that var is called...
07:15<TrueBrain>Ammler: the file is not ment for local changes :)
07:15<TrueBrain>that said, from SVN it only postfixes branches
07:16<TrueBrain>hmm, even that is wrong .. only the nightly postfixes branches :p
07:16<TrueBrain>hehe
07:16<TrueBrain>s/nightly/compile farm/
07:16<Ammler>hmm, will it only generated once?
07:17<Ammler>(on configure)
07:17<TrueBrain>oh well, got to go, already late :)
07:17<TrueBrain>have a good day all :)
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07:17<Ammler>cu TrueBrain
07:20<Ammler>Celestar: what is your favorite name for the patch?
07:20<Ammler>or what does "rn" mean?
07:20<Progman>route network
07:20<Progman>YACDP o_O
07:20<Ammler>yeah, that is a nice one :P
07:20<Forked>hehe
07:21<Forked>yet another pax patch
07:21<Progman>please no ;)
07:21<Ammler>:-)
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07:25<Ammler>!dlin
07:25<Ammler>oh
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07:30<dih>did those commands not usually spark a kick?
07:34<LA[Lord]>dih, maybe this doew
07:34<LA[Lord]>does*
07:34<LA[Lord]>!password
07:34<LA[Lord]>:o
07:34<dih>it used to
07:35<LA[Lord]>hmm
07:35<LA[Lord]>but glx isn't around either atm :P
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07:37<Ammler>dih: needs glx for that
07:37<Ammler>he did those kicks with his client...
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07:39<fjb>Hm, it looks like "service at nearest depot" always sends at least road vehicles to the depot, not only when needing service.
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07:46<Celestar>back
07:46<Celestar>Ammler: cargodest
07:47<dih>Ammler: say that magic word agian...
07:47<Celestar>glx: could you do me a favour?
07:47<+glx>maybe :)
07:47-!-clochette [~clochette@ANantes-257-1-135-233.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
07:48<Celestar>glx: can you check the latest hg version and see if it compiles in mingw and msvc?
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07:49<Celestar>glx: I've used a rarely-used feature. And don't say it doesn't work because gcc 2.95.3 does it nicely :P
07:50<+glx>if it's ok for 2.95.3 it should be ok for me ;)
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07:51<Celestar>I hope so
07:53<+glx>no warning for mingw
07:53<Celestar>good
07:53<+glx>(waiting for msvc ;) )
07:53<Celestar>heh
07:53<Celestar>right
07:53<Celestar>:P
07:54<+glx>ok for msvc
07:54<Celestar>great
08:11<fjb>If using cargo destinations what happens when you unload some cargo at a station which consumes that type of cargo but that cargo has another destination? Will it get absorbed by the station or will it wait for the next wehicle bringing it to its real destination?
08:13<Noldo>absorbed?
08:14<fjb>consumemed, disappearing, whatever...
08:17<Brianetta>it will wait
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08:19<@peter1138>Accepted.
08:19<@peter1138>It will not be accepted, because its for a different destination. That's pretty much the point.
08:20<Pikka>one thing I have noticed about YAPP is that it doesn't have the crossing-activation effect that PBS in TTDP has... :(
08:20<@peter1138>It does.
08:20<Pikka>does it?
08:20<Celestar>it does
08:20<Pikka>okay :D
08:20<Pikka>oh right
08:20<Pikka>no signals on that line >_>
08:20<davis->lol
08:21<Brianetta>one thing I have noticed about YAPP is that the crossing-activation doesn't seem to be animated
08:21<Brianetta>You hear the ding-dings but the lights just come on red
08:21<Celestar>Brianetta: full animation disabled?
08:21<FauxFaux>DING DING DING DING DING
08:22<Brianetta>Celestar: No; the work in 0.6.2 with the same config file
08:22<Pikka>I'm in 1884 with the NA road set, so I don't have lights to clue me in...
08:22<Celestar>Brianetta: afaik it's not in the config file
08:22<@peter1138>Crossing animation is a palette animation.
08:22<Brianetta>Pikka: Do you have wig-wags? (:
08:22<@peter1138>So if it's not animated, palette animation is not turned on, or there's a GRF that's changed the sprites...
08:22<Brianetta>Does the 32 bit graphics engine do the palette stuff?
08:22<@peter1138>32bpp-anim does
08:23<davis->:]
08:23<Brianetta>ah
08:23<Pikka>15mph articulated horsies are an accident waiting to happen...
08:23<Celestar>peter1138: or the blitter doesn't support animation :P
08:23<@peter1138>Heh, yeah
08:23<Brianetta>Pikka: Do they explode?
08:23<hylje>pony trams
08:23<@peter1138>Celestar, blitter doesn't support animation == palette animation not turned on ;)
08:24<Celestar>peter1138: you can manually disable it too (=
08:25<Forked>do the horses explode if a train hits them?
08:25<Forked>and what does the news say.. "three people and a horse died in.."
08:28<Celestar>who cares about the horse?!
08:28<Celestar>:P
08:28<Pikka>four horses, actually
08:29<Pikka>of my first three horse wagons ever built, I managed to lose two of them before they'd travelled two tiles from the depot...
08:29<Brianetta>Pikka: Your own trains?
08:29<Pikka>yep
08:30<Brianetta>You need a long signal block
08:30<Brianetta>Get that crossing closed way in advance
08:30<Pikka>well the second one got stuck on the first one >_>
08:30<Brianetta>ah
08:30<Pikka>as they do
08:30<Brianetta>heh
08:30<Brianetta>yeah
08:30<Celestar>hm who runs/maintains BuildOTTD btw?
08:30<Brianetta>shame they don't link up
08:31<Progman>isn't buildottd on sf.net?
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08:34<Celestar>meh
08:34<Celestar>I wish I could teach kile to use another editor
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08:35<fjb>Brianetta: peter1138: Thanks
08:36<Pikka>oh noes
08:36<Pikka>horsey got crunched
08:36<Sacro|Work>mmm
08:36<Sacro|Work>glue
08:36<hylje>wurst
08:36-!-Dred_furst` [~Dred_furs@user-54470bf2.wfd82a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit []
08:36<Sacro|Work>horsewurst?
08:37*Sacro|Work can't recall horse in german
08:37-!-Dred_furst` [~Dred_furs@user-54470bf2.wfd82a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd
08:37<Ammler>http://sourceforge.net/projects/bottd/
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08:37<Ammler>is truelight2 TrueBrain?
08:38<+glx>yes
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08:38<Brianetta>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE6gM-qtjTU
08:38<Celestar>Sacro|Work: Pferd.
08:38<Sacro|Work>Celestar: ah yes
08:38<fjb>Sacro|Work: Pferd. Pferdewurst, lecker. :-)
08:39<Celestar>heh.
08:39<Celestar>how can I get a list of available templates from the wiki?
08:39<fjb>Is there a chance to teach an articulated vehicle how to overtake other vehicles?
08:39<Celestar>found it
08:41<davis->D:
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08:46<Ammler>bottd isn't made with c++, is that c# or something like that?
08:47<Ammler>.cs
08:47<Sacro|Work>C#
08:48<Sacro|Work>tis my current language
08:53<@Belugas>gaaa... I've refused the feature request of Auto-Repay loan and now, i have to deal with the usual user-would-like-to-discuss-and-force-feature-request-based-on-logic-and-REALISM
08:53<@Belugas>fuck...
08:54<@Belugas>why can't a "No" be enough???
08:54<Gekz>lol
08:54<Gekz>what a useless feature
08:55<Forked>"You want it? You code it."
08:56<Celestar>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap_0.7 <= anyone feels like updating this? :P
08:57<Celestar>hm ..
08:57<FauxFaux>I don't understand why you don't take advantage of the pro features of flyspray to do it. :)
08:57<fjb>Belugas: Does realism reality strike you? :-)
08:57<Celestar>when will we default to OpenGFX?
08:57<+glx>fjb: openttd is a game
08:58<fjb>glx: Really?
08:58<@peter1138>Celestar, never!
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08:59<@Belugas>i do not care much about realism in the game. It's not made as a reflection of realism in the first place.
08:59<@Belugas>if it was the case, bridges would take YEARS to be built,
08:59<@Belugas>same as tunnels
09:00<Gekz>same as THE ENTIRE GAME
09:00<Gekz>lol
09:00<@Belugas>same as airports
09:00<fjb>I vote for that!
09:00<@peter1138>Belugas, don't give them ideas :o
09:00<fjb>Please implement it, I can't live without that features.
09:00<Gekz>it would be a fun patch
09:00<@Belugas>you know what? I might eventually do a "FULL REALISM" switch... will do just that :D
09:00<Gekz>it would prove to people that realism makes the game unfun
09:01<Gekz>or it might work against us
09:01<Gekz>>_>
09:01<LA[Lord]>no
09:01<LA[Lord]>it would give you a red message.. REAL LIFE IS WAITING FOR YOU IF YOU CARE SO MUCH :P
09:01<@peter1138>Trains should cost millions, passengers should pay peanuts...
09:01<LA[Lord]>and format the hd
09:01<Celestar>peter1138: why? :P
09:02<@peter1138>In the name of realism...
09:02<@peter1138>:o
09:02<LA[Lord]>:o
09:02<LA[Lord]>damn
09:02<LA[Lord]>gotta make openGFX less real :o
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09:03<@peter1138>Less dingy wouldn't hurt :p
09:03<LordAzamath>dingy?
09:03<@peter1138>Dark, grey, brown...
09:03<@peter1138>Like a nasty office.
09:03<LordAzamath>blame Zephyris :P
09:03<LordAzamath>he has drawn practically 90% of all that :P
09:05<@Rubidium>Celestar: you should be able to change that wiki page
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09:06<Celestar>Rubidium: yeah. I just dunno what to put on it :P
09:07*Celestar browses through the wiki some more while he copies 2TB of data from A to B
09:08*Ammler seems to be alone, who doesn't like the tracks from OpenGFX :-(
09:09<Brianetta>Ammler: Where can I see them?
09:09<Ammler>Brianetta: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=96958
09:09<LordAzamath>Ammler: You are right, the horizontal tracks look like narrow gauge :P
09:10<LordAzamath>or very narrow gauge :P
09:10<Ammler>my little comment about: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=721375#p721375
09:11<Ammler>I am also wondering, why nobody complained about the darkness from some replacments...
09:12<Brianetta>They're not bad, but the horizontal tracks are as high as the windows on most trains.
09:12<Brianetta>I think one pixel would have sufficed.
09:12<Brianetta>The sleepers are too big. They look as big as the toyland ones.
09:12<Ammler>could it be the result of rendering, instead of pixelwork?
09:12<Brianetta>Those are rendered?
09:12<Brianetta>Why go to all that work?
09:13<@Rubidium>Ammler: I did complain about that; or rather, I said that I feel depressed when someone uses those (new)grfs
09:13<LordAzamath>I don't think they are rendered
09:13<Ammler>I guess, I read somewhere, Zephyris is making his grfs that way...
09:13<LordAzamath>he converts them from 32bpp to 8bpp, but he does not render
09:13<LordAzamath>(not counting planes)
09:14<LordAzamath>cos planes were indeed rendered
09:14<Brianetta>The CS tracks are fantastic.
09:14<Brianetta>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=217
09:14<Ammler>also nice tunnels
09:15<Brianetta>I liked to use them statically, but they didn't work on level crossings unless you used the CS road set, which isn't statically compatible.
09:15<Ammler>that's why we trashed the whole static support on our pack
09:16<Ammler>I documented on our first packs, how you can use grfs static and which...
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09:16<Brianetta>I leave statics up to the player
09:16<Ammler>yep
09:16<Ammler>well, I guess, you can't do anything against :-)
09:17<Brianetta>I use dutch catenary (because it's actually visible), the new railway fence and the British crossings
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09:17<Ammler>new railway fence?
09:17<Ammler>from purno?
09:17<@peter1138>Hm
09:17<Brianetta>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=11
09:18<Brianetta>Reminds me of my old Lego boundary fences
09:18<Sacro|Work>oh yes
09:18<Sacro|Work>or old school level crossings
09:18<Brianetta>Old school level crossings is also inmy static list
09:19<Sacro|Work>that's such an awesome idea
09:19<Sacro|Work>working before a set year only?
09:19<Sacro|Work>like semaphores?
09:19<Brianetta>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=56
09:19<Brianetta>nah
09:19<Brianetta>towns only
09:19<Brianetta>there's no logic
09:19<Brianetta>because that would make them unusable as static grfs
09:20<Brianetta>GRFcrawler would benefit from a "static compatible" flag
09:21<Sacro|Work>yeah
09:21<Sacro|Work>hmm, looks a tad brigh
09:21<Celestar>gotta go
09:21<Celestar>cu
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09:21<Brianetta>UK road set is all wrong
09:21<Brianetta>It wasn't until the 80s that the give way line changed
09:21<Sacro|Work>I might start on graphics stuff again
09:21<Sacro|Work>i keep meaning to
09:22<Sacro|Work>i want to have more british looking signals
09:22<Ammler>hmm, if the crawler will accept grf upload
09:22<Ammler>it can analyze the grfs and flag it self...
09:22<Brianetta>Ammler: OTTD compatible is already a field
09:23<Ammler>which became quite uselss
09:23<Ammler>there aren't many GRFs left, which doesn't work on OTTD
09:23<Ammler>if there is one?
09:24<Ammler>(excluding license)
09:24<Brianetta>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=177
09:24<Brianetta>also, there are some which are just plain unecessary
09:24<Brianetta>like presignals
09:24<Ammler>I assume, that isn't need in OTTD, as it is like patch, isn't?
09:25<Ammler>(fix)
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10:49<TrueBrain>[14:37] <Ammler> is truelight2 TrueBrain <- someone already took 'truelight' on SF .. :(
10:50<yorick>then use TrueBrain
10:50<+glx>he was truelight at that time
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11:09<yorick>glx: he changed his name?
11:10<yorick>did he become a she?
11:10<TrueBrain>@kick yorick and (s)he can still kick your butt!
11:10-!-yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [and (s)he can still kick your butt!]
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11:10<TrueBrain>(really, he was just asking for it, wasn't he?)
11:11<yorick>not really, no
11:11<@Belugas>nope. He was not asking for a quick
11:11<@Belugas>he was asking for a BAN
11:11<Forked>sooo.. whats the latest windows binary available of cargodest .. that works?
11:12<TrueBrain>Belugas: glad it wasn't me :)
11:12<TrueBrain>http://binaries.openttd.org/custom/cargodest-af0fc47a/
11:12<TrueBrain>I guess I should ocmpile a new one :p
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11:14<yorick>TB: no, honestly I didn't know
11:15<TrueBrain>you didn't know what?
11:15<yorick>you changed your name recently
11:15<TrueBrain>not really recently in any way :)
11:15<TrueBrain>I cary this name on IRC for 1.5 years now
11:16<Forked>TrueBrain: ah nice, thank you. And give a shout if you do :)
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11:29<dih>after 11 episodes of friends i think i should get some fresh air....
11:31-!-Cozzie [~Cozzie@60-242-46-54.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
11:31<Cozzie>hello guys, i would like to report that http://www.openttd.org/readme.txt does not exist
11:31<Cozzie>thank you
11:32<Cozzie>great job on openttd btw
11:32<TrueBrain>hello Cozzie
11:32<TrueBrain>then the only counter question I have: why do you expect it that it does exist?
11:33<Cozzie>it is on this page: http://www.openttd.org/downloads.php
11:33<Cozzie>Notice
11:33<Cozzie>OpenTTD requires the original version of Transport Tycoon Deluxe data files in order to function. Please refer to the readme for more information.
11:33<TrueBrain>tnx :) Now your report is useful :)
11:33<TrueBrain>(just stating some random url doesn't work, doesn't really help me in where that url was announced ;))
11:34<Cozzie>=x
11:34<Cozzie>why so?
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11:34<Cozzie>wait
11:34<Cozzie>nevermind lol
11:34<Cozzie>i lost track there for a bit
11:34<TrueBrain>:) Cozzie: it will be fixed soon, tnx for letting us know :)
11:35<Cozzie>i assume that page's info is in the wiki somewhere?
11:35<TrueBrain>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/readme.txt
11:35<Cozzie>hahaha. thanks
11:36<Cozzie>that should also be in the wiki
11:36<Cozzie>ust a suggestion
11:36<TrueBrain>feel free :)
11:36<TrueBrain>the wiki is open for any and all to edit
11:37<Cozzie>ahh okay I might make a getting started page
11:37<TrueBrain>I believe there is already such a page
11:38<TrueBrain>but look around for a bit :)
11:38<TrueBrain>(http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_Started btw)
11:38<Cozzie>owh
11:38<Cozzie>my apologies
11:38<Cozzie>was using "setup"
11:38<Cozzie>as keyword
11:38<Cozzie>hrmm that isnt the page that i was expecting
11:39<Cozzie>more like what the readme.txt states on how to install it
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11:39<TrueBrain>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Installation
11:39<TrueBrain>? :)
11:39<TrueBrain>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/OpenTTD <- a pretty good start place :)
11:40<Cozzie>=P thanks
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11:42<Cozzie>i think installation should be in the front page... what do you think?
11:43<FauxFaux>Can anyone tell me where the wiki page on tractive effort is yet? :)
11:45<TrueBrain>Cozzie: I think it is pretty clear like this
11:45<@Belugas>FauxFaux, just need to find the search page
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11:45<Cozzie>it is quite alright but I was having issues finding installation page which is important
11:45<Cozzie>no where does the main page directs
11:46<Cozzie>might wanna do a bit of a usability test there
11:46<TrueBrain>in dutch we have a saying: "verder kijken dan je neus lang is", I fail to translate. But it comes down to: you find it if you just look a tiny bit along the logic way :)
11:46<Cozzie>might be just my fault
11:46<FauxFaux>Belugas: It's not mentioned. :)
11:46<TrueBrain>but I guess 'Getting Started' can make a pointer to the Installation page yes
11:46<@Belugas>what is not mentionned?
11:47<FauxFaux>Well, some values of it are, but what it actually means / does. Tractive effort.
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11:47<@Belugas>well... maybe it is not there, simply
11:47<@Belugas>maybe you could write it
11:47<yorick>TrueBrain: "to look further than your nose is long"?
11:47<FauxFaux>Belugas: I would if I knew what it was / what it did. :p
11:48<TrueBrain>yorick: as I said: I fail to translate .. so do you
11:48<Cozzie>are you all dutch?
11:48<yorick>at least I tried
11:48<TrueBrain>Cozzie: no
11:49<TrueBrain>but there tends to be a group of people in here who claim to understand dutch :)
11:49<Cozzie>ahh
11:49<Cozzie>that's intersting
11:49<TrueBrain>that how the cookie crumbles :)
11:49<yorick>"to look beyond your noselenght"?
11:49*hylje has crumbling cookies right now
11:50<Cozzie>for some reason i encounter a lot of dutch people online that are quite competent in IT and also open source projects
11:50<TrueBrain>and I am hungry and don't feel like getting on my bike
11:50*yorick steals a crumble from hylje and gives it to TrueBrain
11:50<yorick>which is nice from me, so no reason to kick :)
11:50<hylje>not nice to me
11:51<hylje>:-(
11:51<TrueBrain>learn english
11:51<TrueBrain>I have enough money to order a pizza .. hmm .. expensiv
11:51<TrueBrain>e
11:51<TrueBrain>but nice ..
11:51<hylje>desperate
11:51<TrueBrain>yup
11:52<Cozzie>hrmm thanks for the help truebrain
11:52<Cozzie>you are really a brainiac =D
11:52<TrueBrain>I am just lucky that way
11:52<yorick>pizzas cost around 15,-
11:52<hylje>what money
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>with 2m diameter?
11:53<yorick>euros
11:53<hylje>haha
11:53<TrueBrain>when I go to the store, I can buy 5 pizza of that money ..
11:53<yorick>no, ordered online
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11:53<TrueBrain>still .. verder tempting to just order it ..
11:53<Milloflex>hello. :-)
11:53<yorick>Hello. :)
11:53<TrueBrain>hi there Milloflex
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>5€ is already expensive...
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11:54<yorick>Eddi: you mean 5€?
11:54<yorick>€5*
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>when you can get a fully fledged Döner Kebab for half the price
11:54<Milloflex>got a question. how do i get a 'view in view'? like... another view from some place of the map? :-)
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>no, i mean 5€
11:54<yorick>Milloflex: press v
11:54<FauxFaux>Milloflex: Map dropdown, extra viewport.
11:54<yorick>Eddi: I only know €5
11:54<Milloflex>ah
11:54<Milloflex>knew it was there someplace
11:55<Forked>meep meep
11:55<yorick>Forked: `meep
11:55<hylje>meep
11:55<davis->brb pizza
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11:57<@Belugas>FauxFaux, i would say that the sources are the best place to look for. table\engines.h:373 and on
11:57<@Belugas>i think
11:59<@Belugas>" * Tractive effort coefficient by default is the same as TTDPatch, 0.30*256=76"
12:00<FauxFaux>I shall have a read when I get home from work. :)
12:03<@peter1138>Belugas, we 'need' proper realistic acceleration! Let's simulate the engines using a physics engine!
12:05<@Belugas>ok
12:05<@Belugas>realism!
12:07<@peter1138>hehe
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12:50<Brianetta>realism rocks
12:50*hylje rocks Brianetta
12:50<hylje>.. REALISTICALLY
12:50<Prof_Frink>Rocks rock.
12:50<FauxFaux>Rocks rock my socks.
12:50<Brianetta>At the moment, in openttd, if there's a train collision, there's no point in the passengers reaching for the window hammers to get out.
12:50<Prof_Frink>Rocking rocks rock less.
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12:51<Prof_Frink>Brianetta: That's realistic. In openttd all the trains are made from dynamite.
12:51<Brianetta>No point investing in safer coaches.
12:51<FauxFaux>Brianetta: Heheh, derail into the nearest town. ¬_¬
12:51<Brianetta>FauxFaux: You *can* in Locomotion
12:52<Forked>if two trains travel at a speed of 30km/h and hit eachother face on, what happens to wagon #54 on the train traveling southbound? :o
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12:53<FauxFaux>Forked: It'd probably not be taken away by a train, so it'd need to be removed via. other methods for inspection at the least.
12:53<Forked>this was a ttd related scenario :)
12:53<FauxFaux>consider the replacement cost the inspection cost. ¬_¬
12:55-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
12:56<Prof_Frink>Forked: If a lorry crashes into a stationary train at 1mph, what happens?
12:57*Belugas ponders adding 1 year delay per tile while building a bridge, out of realism
12:57<FauxFaux>Heh, realistic timing for things, don't even go there. :p
12:57<hylje>noninstant construction could be good
12:57<FauxFaux>I've always wondered what it'd be like to play with that.
12:57<hylje>well "realistic"
12:57<Forked>Prof_Frink: someone gets fired for being drunk on the job
12:57<FauxFaux>Having said that, I suck so much at planning it's probably a bad idea.
12:57<hylje>of course it'd be to a reasonable scale
12:58<Prof_Frink>Belugas: With a button that increases the cost tenfold and halves the construction time
12:58<hylje>not particularly related to existing time constructs
12:58<Prof_Frink>Forked: And in TTD? kaboom.
13:00<Brianetta>FauxFaux: http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/5211/screenshot29gy.png
13:00<@Belugas>tracks been laid out one per game day, imagine the "pleasure" while dragging ^_^
13:00<FauxFaux>Brianetta: Oh, awesome.
13:02<Brianetta>If you delete track from in front of a train, it'll derail and crash, too
13:02<Prof_Frink>Brianetta: I like how the steam ends where the track ends
13:02<Brianetta>Oooh, it's 6pm
13:02<Brianetta>Bye!
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13:03<hylje>Prof_Frink: well obviously the engineer figured it's not gonna get any traction while flying and dismantled the engine just in time
13:04<Celestar>er?
13:04<Prof_Frink>Or that "steam" is actually smoke from the wheel/rail friction
13:04<Prof_Frink>Celestar: [18:00:05] < Brianetta> FauxFaux: http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/5211/screenshot29gy.png
13:05<Sacro>[18:04] <Prof_Frink> Celestar: [18:00:05] < Brianetta> FauxFaux: http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/5211/screenshot29gy.png
13:05<FauxFaux>Aagh!
13:05<Sacro>XD
13:05<Celestar>Isn't that Lomo?
13:05<@peter1138>Yes.
13:05<FauxFaux>Yes.
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>no
13:05<Sacro>Yes.
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>it's not not.
13:06<FauxFaux>That's what she said.
13:06<Celestar>then what is it?
13:06<Celestar>Lomo had manual train control?
13:06<@Belugas>a UGAS?
13:06<FauxFaux>Sherif lomo.
13:07<@peter1138>Celestar, as some kind of cheat, I think.
13:07<Sacro>Celestar: it's a cheat
13:07<Celestar>:S
13:07<Celestar>I wish they had not implemented that cheat and made the game actually worthwhile
13:08<@Belugas>that is a ramp :D
13:08-!-eQualizer [~lauri@dyn196-117.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
13:08<@Belugas>it's throwing train time !
13:08<@peter1138>Bah, I hate drawing :o
13:09<Celestar>peter1138: what are you drawing?
13:09*Prof_Frink drwas the curtains
13:09<@peter1138>Sprites :p
13:09<Celestar>peter1138: could you implemented my routing sprite I have drawn?
13:09<Prof_Frink>peter1138: The computer game graphics or the electrical discharge?
13:10<Celestar>Prof_Frink: a fucking soda, you goddamn geekass bastard
13:10<Celestar> </quote>
13:11<Prof_Frink>Celestar: Not the type of goblin used in adverts for the aforementioned drink?
13:11<Celestar>:P
13:12<Celestar>what does lomo look that DAMN cheap?
13:12-!-insulfrog [~trainslov@92.1.37.137] has joined #openttd
13:12<insulfrog>hi
13:14-!-Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>gnah... i am so lazy...
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>i should be doing something for my diploma thesis...
13:15<davis->arnt we all
13:15<Prof_Frink>No! You should be hacking on openttd!
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>i should have taken that as my diploma thesis :p
13:16<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: I should be doing something for my PhD thesis
13:17<@peter1138>Ah, that's where I'm going wrong... the metro set does not contain crossings :o
13:17<yorick>Prof_Frink: not hacking, modifying source
13:17-!-Farden123 [~jk3farden@ram94-7-82-232-189-236.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
13:18<Prof_Frink>yorick: hacking.
13:18<yorick>no its not
13:19<Prof_Frink>yorick: It is if you use an axe.
13:19<yorick>yes, we don't
13:19-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host245-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:19<Prof_Frink>I do.
13:19<Wolf01>so do I.
13:19<yorick>I do not use an axe with openttd.
13:19<Wolf01>hello :P
13:20<Prof_Frink>Wolf01: We can't *both* marry peter1138.
13:21-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1D108.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:21<davis->peter griffin
13:23-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1D108.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
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13:24<Sacro>buttscratcher?
13:24-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
13:25<davis->:D
13:25<davis->gah that made me laugh
13:25<davis->>.<
13:25-!-Bergee [~bergee@c-68-42-180-23.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:27<Celestar>I'm looking for a volunteer among the devs
13:27<FauxFaux>Me, me, pick me!
13:28<Celestar>FauxFaux: ok you may do a code review of cargodest (=
13:28<davis->buttscratcher ?
13:28<Sacro>buttscratcher!
13:28<davis->:D
13:28<FauxFaux>Hmm, code reviews, not exactly my strongpoint. Is it in a real rcs yet, or would I have to user mercurial? :p
13:28-!-bowman [johanf@81-226-229-179-no59.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
13:28<FauxFaux>-r
13:28<@Belugas>Celestar: if it involves compiling or testing the game, count me off :S
13:29<davis->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydVp-2B8qlw
13:29<@Belugas>or code review too...
13:29<Celestar>Belugas: reading the diff :P
13:29<@Belugas>not now at least
13:29<@Belugas>if it fits on a normal screen, i can
13:30<Sacro>davis-: that's not the one D:
13:30<davis->hm
13:30<davis->yeah
13:30<davis->they cut off the stadium
13:30<davis->part
13:30<davis->:\
13:31<Sacro>http://tubearoo.com/articles/91921/Family_Guy_Buttscratcher.html
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13:31<davis->:D
13:31<Sacro>though I must admit the fat guy and the tuba is awesome
13:32<davis->yeah
13:32<davis->i watched all episodes on familyguynow
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: it does, if you pipe the binary representation directly to the graphics buffer :p
13:32<Sacro>i use familyguyx
13:32-!-Guest3895 [~Dale@pool-71-98-67-2.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:32<Celestar>Belugas: what do you mean? don't you have wordwrap?
13:32<davis->yeah thats good too
13:32-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:32-!-Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:32<Celestar>:P
13:33<@Belugas>Celestar, it means that while been at work, i would need a small piece of code to concentrate on ;)
13:33<@Belugas>been being
13:33<@Belugas>thus, if it fits on a screen, it's small enough
13:34<Celestar>heh
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>well, you can represent 3 bytes on one pixel, and you have at least 1280x1024 pixels on a "normal" screen
13:34<Celestar>Belugas: can you fit 5000 lines lines of code on your screen?
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>that means you can display like 4MB of data on one such screen
13:34<Sacro>remove all whitespace
13:35<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Doesn't help if the thing is coded in whitespace.
13:35<@Belugas>Celestar, hardly... really hardly
13:35<Celestar>Prof_Frink: yeah right. I'm coding cargodest in whitespace :P
13:35<@Belugas>ho... if it's the case, it won't commit ^_^
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>one entry in an obfuscated c contest was a whitespace interpreter
13:36<Celestar>:P
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>it had a whitespace program embedded in the interpreter source code ;)
13:36<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: That's beautiful.
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>so you could run the interpreter on its own source code
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13:38<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: quine?
13:38<Sacro> char*f="char*f=%c%s%c;main()
13:38<Sacro> {printf(f,34,f,34,10);}%c";
13:38<Sacro> main(){printf(f,34,f,34,10);}
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>no, that's a different thing ;)
13:39<Prof_Frink>Sacro: HQ9+
13:39*LordAzamath had a crazy idea.. Which will never be implemented though
13:39<Prof_Frink>LordAzamath: Certainly not if you don't tell anyone about it.
13:39<LordAzamath>lol
13:40<LordAzamath>but I warn, it's crazy
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>it can't possibly beat the stuff in the suggestions forum...
13:40<LordAzamath>to add png encoding (to replace pcx) to grfs.. Pngs can also be indexed
13:41<LordAzamath>and it would shrink down the filesize
13:41<LordAzamath>s
13:41<LordAzamath>of grfs :P
13:41<LordAzamath>Eddi|zuHause: Did it beat?
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>that is not even a new idea...
13:41<LordAzamath>:o
13:41<LordAzamath>how come
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>has been discussed a lot of times...
13:42<LordAzamath>when?
13:42<LordAzamath>by who
13:42-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
13:42<LordAzamath>haven't found a single discussion about it :P
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>mainly DaleStan trying to convince people that it's not worth it ;)
13:42<LordAzamath>lol
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, you can put the grf and the pngs in a tar instead
13:43-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
13:43<LordAzamath>but it'd only activate with 32bpp blitter
13:43<LordAzamath>which is not my idea
13:44<LordAzamath>Eddi|zuHause: What were his primary points of it not being worth it
13:44<DaleStan>Wait. What's not worth it?
13:44<DaleStan>Using zlib/libpng to compress 8bpp sprites in-grf?
13:44<DaleStan>Using binary includes to embed 32bpp sprites in GRFs?
13:44<DaleStan>Something else?
13:44<LordAzamath>damn
13:44<LordAzamath>I hoped u were asleep
13:44<LordAzamath>:P
13:45<LordAzamath>or afk
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>all of it, i presume ;)
13:45<Celestar>methinks png will be needed once the thing moves to 32bpp
13:45<Celestar>and larger tiles
13:46<LordAzamath>pcx will be huge in filesize :P
13:46<DaleStan>If you're putting words in my mouth, please be more explicit about what words you think I spoke.
13:46*Rexxars looks forward to 32bpp <3
13:46*LordAzamath looks backwards to 32bpp
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, my vague impression of the discussions were "it's theoretically possible but nobody bothers to implement it"
13:46<Rexxars>why? :'(
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>Rexxars: 32bpp is already implemented
13:47<DaleStan>*WHAT* is theoretically possible!?
13:47<hylje>everything
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>DaleStan: using png instead of pcx in grfs
13:49<LordAzamath>hylje, I can already name one thing
13:49<DaleStan>EINVALID. GRFs don't use PCX. GRFCodec does, but GRFs do not.
13:49<DaleStan>GRFs use their own RLE-based compression scheme.
13:50<LordAzamath>which is a good compressor (not doubting ur words, just curious)
13:50<LordAzamath>?
13:51<LordAzamath>humm..
13:51<@peter1138>Putting 32bpp graphics in GRFs, along with action7/9 to skip bits depending on whether 32bpp is enabled, opens a whole new kettle of worms for possible desyncs :)
13:52<hylje>LordAzamath: out of everything?
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>LordAzamath: just try to compress a grf with a standard compressing program... then you'll get an idea how good or bad the builtin compression is
13:52-!-chanclown [~asd@dtmd-4db20140.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
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13:52<chanclown>.
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13:53-!-extspotter [~extspotte@host86-133-245-234.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
13:53<extspotter>hi
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: not to mention grfs without 32bpp pngs (because they are smaller) being used alongside grfs with 32bpp pngs, but having different md5sums
13:53<LordAzamath>Eddi|zuHause: 7zip halved the size
13:54<DaleStan>gzip can compress trg1r by about 33%, but that's two rather different tests. Theres a lot of redundancy in the sprite headers that gzip can get to and the the per-sprite compression can't.
13:54<LordAzamath>damn.. my suggestion was to keep the ongs 8bpp :P and ur talking about 32bpp :P
13:54<extspotter>Anyone interested in getting involved with making the UK planeset (painting/coding/whatever)?
13:54<LordAzamath>I would if I lived in UK :P
13:54<LordAzamath>but I don't
13:54<extspotter>awww
13:55-!-Bergee [~bergee@c-68-42-180-23.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
13:55<extspotter>hopefully once we get done on uk and ireland, we can exapnd to europe plane set
13:55<extspotter>and then world plane set
13:55<LordAzamath>riiight
13:55<LordAzamath>just some gazillion planes with same statistics?
13:56<extspotter>yeah, but with nicer colours
13:56<extspotter>:D
13:56<@peter1138>Yet another plane set! :D
13:56<extspotter>http://ukplaneset.forumotion.net/atr-f8/
13:57<LordAzamath>YAPS
13:57<LordAzamath>lol
13:57<extspotter>Its easy, its just av8 repainted and slightly changed and added to
13:57<extspotter>I have permission from pikka
13:57<extspotter>so its not like a noob thing
13:57<LordAzamath>well
13:58<LordAzamath>if you just modify his code/sprites, it's still a bit noob thing :P ;)
13:58<LordAzamath>:P
13:58<LordAzamath>like the WWOTTDGD Easter grf which I made was a noob thing :P
13:58<LordAzamath>although nice noob thing
13:58<extspotter>I know I couldnt make models which look as good as that, so being deluded about it would be a bad idea
13:58-!-eQualizer [~lauri@dyn196-117.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
13:59<LordAzamath>planes aren't hard to model if u have blueprints
13:59<extspotter>I can only put an extra dimension onto it, add in more planes and real world colours
13:59<extspotter>I find trains hard to model
13:59<extspotter>so planes is a whole new bucket of fish
14:01<LordAzamath>like.. I did this in 2 hours.. from the real Stratocruiser blueprint.. And it's about the TT-scale too at that gif http://forum.vces.net/uploads/av-794.gif
14:02<extspotter>That shows your ultimate skill as a plane maker
14:02<extspotter>I pale into insignificance
14:02<LordAzamath>although I have to admit I looked through av8 stratocruiser later and found out that they are really different from eachother
14:02<extspotter>how much ass-kissing will it take to bring your service aboard? :D
14:03<LordAzamath>you want me to model some planes for your British planeset?
14:04<extspotter>yes, there are quite a few missing from av8 that are quite important in aviation temrs
14:04<LordAzamath>lol
14:04<LordAzamath>I guess the RL livery would be quite important to you?
14:04<extspotter>like the 717, 720, 757, 767 and 787 just for boeing
14:04<LordAzamath>just make a boeing set lol
14:04<extspotter>just greyscale is fine, repainting is easy
14:05<Celestar>heh
14:05<extspotter>there are loads, its just a way of showing how many are missing
14:05<LordAzamath>like
14:05<extspotter>A310
14:05<extspotter>A318
14:05<extspotter>A319
14:05<LordAzamath>all existing boeing planes into the set
14:05<extspotter>A321
14:05<extspotter>All CRJs
14:05<extspotter>All ERJs
14:05<extspotter>E170/5
14:05<extspotter>E190/5
14:05<LordAzamath>overkill
14:05<extspotter>thats just 4 manufacturers, lol
14:05<LordAzamath>limitations are sometimes good things
14:06<LordAzamath>it makes you pick out the best
14:06<extspotter>I know, but you get what I mean, it is far from a complete set
14:06<extspotter>I am a planespotter, so its about having the set
14:06<LordAzamath>u aren't planespotter, ur extspotter :P
14:06<extspotter>like for the BRset rather than picking out specific trains like UKRS it is EVERYTHING!!!! ever made to run on british railways
14:07<Celestar>hm .. 43 minutes for 150km
14:07*peter1138 considers liveries for groups.
14:07<Celestar>not bad that is
14:07<extspotter>EXT is the code for my local airport
14:07<Celestar>210km/h average
14:07<extspotter>is there any coding limiit to number of things in a set like TTDP?
14:08<extspotter>in OTTD
14:08<LordAzamath>yes
14:08<LordAzamath>but it's huge
14:08<Celestar>MUC here (=
14:08<extspotter>lucky bastard
14:08<extspotter>whats that, like 20m pax a year
14:08<LordAzamath>but we would always want to keep the set TTDP compatible too, wouldn't we?
14:08<LordAzamath>20milli :o
14:08<LordAzamath>millipax :P
14:09<extspotter>Exeter last year broke the record at like 1,010,000
14:09<LordAzamath>1 pax = 1000 millipax
14:09<extspotter>wewt, millionaires club
14:09<Celestar>extspotter: 33 MPax
14:09<Celestar>extspotter: heading for 35 this year
14:09<extspotter>I'd be suprised
14:09<extspotter>especially with german consolidation
14:10<extspotter>LTU -> Air Berline
14:10<Celestar>extspotter: it's an LH/Star hub
14:10<extspotter>HLX -> Air Berlin
14:10<Celestar>extspotter: it's the second busiest two-runway airport in the world, closing in on LHR quickly
14:10<extspotter>Thats because LHR is a pile of shart
14:10<extspotter>Noone wants to fly through there because it is a complete hole
14:10<Celestar>an enormous one at that
14:11<extspotter>I would rather go to CDG, AMS, FRA than LHR
14:11<extspotter>even if it means going backwards
14:11<Sacro>ooh
14:11<Sacro>you can set $(OutDir)
14:11<extspotter>CDG 3 looks really nice
14:12<Sacro>if you change it from bin\Release\ then OpenTTD will build better in VS
14:12<Celestar>CDG is almost a big a mess as LHR is, believe me
14:12<Celestar>it's a total craphole
14:12<extspotter>but it has the capacity it needs
14:12<+glx>Sacro: yes it's possible but it will need a change in release system
14:12<extspotter>4 runways > 2
14:12<Sacro>glx: oh, right
14:12<Celestar>extspotter: that's true
14:12<extspotter>Terminal 3B looks wonderful on the inside
14:12<Celestar>extspotter: that doesn't make it any better
14:13<+glx>Sacro: right now it's possible to build all versions and then run a .bat to build the installers
14:13<extspotter>passenger experience it does
14:13<extspotter>it isn't a shopping mall, with dingy, broken, old interior and low rooves
14:14<extspotter>out of the london airports, it pains me to say it but STN is the best
14:14<Celestar>extspotter: I've yet get to CDG once with out 1) losing luggage, 2) having a flight delayed, 3) having a gate change over 2.5km 3 minutes prior to departure, 4) being treated like vermin because my french is rudimentary at best, or any combination thereof
14:14<Celestar>I avoid both LHR and CDG like a plague
14:14<extspotter>AMS is the best of them all
14:14<Celestar>AMS and FRA are much better.
14:14<hylje>Orly!
14:15<Celestar>MUC is even better. But that's what you get for a clean-sheet design
14:15<hylje>(yarly)
14:15<extspotter>even if the dutch aviation tax is like: what?
14:15<extspotter>When did they which from reim?
14:15<extspotter>what year
14:15-!-eQualizer [~lauri@dyn196-117.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:16<Celestar>1992
14:16<extspotter>All the new, clean sheet airports are well designed
14:16<Celestar>they've opened a brand new terminal in 2003
14:16<extspotter>like Denver
14:16<Celestar>yeah
14:16<extspotter>the new one in India, cant remember where
14:16<Celestar>and MUC's planning its third runway currently
14:16<extspotter>Bangalore?
14:16<Celestar>Pune?
14:17<extspotter>Pune is new, but its still quite small isnt it
14:17<extspotter>Kuala Lumpur
14:17<Celestar>If the JAA would finally get their act together, MUC could be Europe's first airport that could handle triple indepenent IFR approaches, even at CATIIIb conditions
14:17<extspotter>even in countries where planning restrictions for transport infrastructure is not as severe is doing well
14:17<extspotter>look at Dublin
14:18<Celestar>never been to DUB
14:18<Celestar>just know the layout
14:18-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host86-153-45-29.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>i've only been to like 7 airports in my life
14:19<extspotter>The moved from 2 runways, 1 cat 3 able, but none are used in multiple to building a second terminal, new cargo terminal, better passenger facilities and a new runway
14:19-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host86-153-45-29.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
14:19<Celestar>extspotter: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Condor-(Thomas-Cook)/Airbus-A320-212/1281154/L/
14:19<extspotter>a.net hasnt been working for me today
14:19<extspotter>I'm a member on there
14:20<Celestar>try it. I'm a member too. since 2001 I think
14:20<Celestar>or 2000
14:20<extspotter>I did, still not working
14:20<Celestar>extspotter: http://www.airliners.net/photo/-/-/1355338/L/
14:20<Celestar>pity :(
14:20<extspotter>I have looked on there since I was 13, but have only been a member for a year
14:20<extspotter>I'm nearly 17, so nothing to rival you though :p
14:21<Celestar>I'll bbl
14:21<Celestar>bye
14:21-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D9EA5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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14:26<Forked>now why the hell did that happen.. cargodest-af0fc47a crashed in a network game when playing around with signs
14:29<Greyscale>I have a user being a dick on my server. How can I kick them?
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>with the kick command?
14:31<Greyscale>Eddi|zuHause, I want to remove their company too :p
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>there
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>'s a command for that too, i think
14:32<Greyscale>Hmm
14:33<insulfrog>g2g
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14:36<Greyscale>How do I turn off breakdowns and vehicle age warnings?
14:37<Greyscale>(on the server)
14:40<@Belugas>how nice... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=39259
14:40<@Belugas>REALISM!!!!
14:40<LordAzamath>realism realism realism ...
14:40<@Belugas>so nice... in real life, passengers are instantly tranported to the airport righ out their doors...
14:41<@Belugas>now... i think "Realistic distance" shold be defined, 'casue now, forme, it's a non-sens
14:41<Greyscale>Help, server config halp required D:
14:41<extspotter>has that guy been around long
14:41<@Rubidium>realistic distance of airports mean that the distance should become less
14:42<extspotter>I think it should depend, like in real life
14:42<@Rubidium>as nobody walks 10 miles before going on a long flight
14:42<extspotter>the greater the service the more
14:42<extspotter>yeah, but we dont have pax destinations like we need
14:42<extspotter>to do that
14:42<LordAzamath>hmm
14:43<hylje>Belugas: pedestrian traffic? private traffic?
14:44<@Belugas>levitation? teleports? wormholes?
14:44<LordAzamath>wurmhales
14:44<Forked>mmm, farscape
14:45<Greyscale>Still need some help turning breakdowns off...
14:45<hylje>stargates
14:46<@Belugas>Greyscale, not sure, but i think they can't be turned off while ingame
14:46<@Belugas>just on new game
14:46<Greyscale>On the server, I can restart it :P
14:46<@Belugas>but don't take my words for it...
14:55<yorick>what happened to blog.openttd.org
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>Greyscale: depends on the version
14:59<Greyscale>0.6.2
15:04<@peter1138>"I think i'll use presignals again, as YAPP seems not to be compatible to DBSet XL."
15:04<@peter1138>Hehe
15:04<@peter1138>Good ol' understanding, where art thou?
15:05<frosch123>yapp is superfluous anyway, 0.6.2 already contains signal graphics
15:05<frosch123>at least I was told so :)
15:06<fjb>I got flamed at a public server once for telling a beginner to set up a pus line from the city to the airport un the suburb to increase passengers at the airport. The experts told hin to walk a bus station from the airport to the tile with the town name, blowing up half of the town while doing that.
15:07<Noldo>cooping isn't really about ROI
15:07<@peter1138>frosch123 ...
15:09<frosch123>someone asked me per pm how to patch 0.6.2 with yapp. after I answered him to play nightlies he told me that he discovered that 0.6.2 already contains signal graphics
15:09<@peter1138>Heh
15:10<fjb>So he is kappy and you are. :-)
15:10<yorick>true ^^
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15:21<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14178 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2256]: Do not evaluate GetDestination() for go-to-nearest-depot-orders.
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15:29<fjb>Oh, what does the last commit change?
15:32<TrueBrain>order_cmd.cpp
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15:37<Eddi|zuHause>Greyscale: in 0.6.2 you cannot change difficulty options on the server. you must load the savegame on a client and change it
15:44<Greyscale>. .
15:44<Greyscale>WHAT
15:44<Greyscale>Can you say "fail"?
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>no. i never say that
15:47<yorick>Eddi: repeat fail
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15:48<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: wtf?
15:49<yorick>Eddi: "what the fail"?
15:51<@Belugas>Who's That Fagget ?
15:51<@Belugas>why That Face?
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15:52<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: the former, i think ;)
15:53<@peter1138># who's that lady
15:53<Prof_Frink>orudge.
15:54<FauxFaux>I'm going with orudge too.
15:54-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
15:54<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14179 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r1): RemoveOrderFromAllVehicles() did not mark enough windows dirty.
15:55<@peter1138>r1 :D
15:55<Noldo>r1?
15:55<Prof_Frink>Which r1?
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>Regioncode 1 == North America i think
15:56<frosch123>though it was named DeleteCommandFromVehicleSchedule at that time
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16:26<Eddi|zuHause2>http://failblog.org/2008/08/27/truck-fail-2/ <- we totally need to simulate that in OpenTTD... for realism's sake!
16:27<Kloopy>Off road oil trucks would be awesome.
16:27<Kloopy>Direct from oil well to refinery.
16:28-!-extspotter [~extspotte@host86-133-245-234.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
16:28<FauxFaux>Would make them far harder to run-over.
16:28<Wolf01>straight line, like airplanes, over water, mountains, houses and other vehicles
16:29<Kloopy>Yeah, if they had really big tyres, they'd be able to float over water! :D
16:29<Kloopy>Awesome idea.
16:29<Kloopy>And if they have powered wheels on eahc wheel... that gets them over hte mountains.
16:29<Kloopy>And who cares what happens to your town reputation if you drive through their houses! :)
16:29<davis->buttscratcher?
16:30<Eddi|zuHause2>what have i done :(
16:30-!-extspotter [~extspotte@host86-133-245-234.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit []
16:30<davis->:]
16:32<ben_goodger>buttscratcher!
16:32<davis->buttscratcher!
16:33<ben_goodger>ah, if only I could remember which family guy episode that completely context-independent non-sequitor came from
16:33<davis->now in simple english
16:33<davis->and i might be able to help
16:33<davis->^_^
16:33<ben_goodger>I don't really care, to be honest
16:34<davis->awesome
16:35<ben_goodger>quite
16:36<Wolf01>'night
16:36-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host245-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:36<Noldo>http://failblog.org/2008/08/19/supermarket-fail/
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17:25-!-glx|away is now known as glx
17:30<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r14180 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Fix (r8293): close all related vehicle lists when closing a station window (and not only the train list).
17:39<@peter1138>So, profiling...
17:39<@peter1138>How many runs?
17:39*peter1138 is profiling with debug 1, profiling 1
17:39<@peter1138>I assume that is sufficient.
17:42<+glx>first run doesn't count
17:42<+glx>(for time profiling)
17:43<dih>http://www.openttd.org/nightly.php <- looks a little empty dont you think?
17:43<+glx>yes but it won't be fixed
17:43*Sacro checks www.openttd.info
17:44<Sacro>"...this page does not show the information you were used to."
17:44<Progman>dih: write a bug on FS )
17:44<Progman>;)
17:44<dih>glx: so you dont list the links if there was no new nighly since past?
17:44<Sacro>these are not the files you are looking for
17:44<+glx>dih: read the NOTICE
17:44<dih>;-)
17:44<@peter1138>glx, yes, I factored that in.
17:44<@peter1138>Each run is differing quite a lot :(
17:45-!-Niki- [~Niklas@p5090B438.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
17:45<dih>glx: sorry
17:47<@peter1138>What's the incantation to increase the frame count? That may be more reliable.
17:47<+glx>-vnull:ticks=xxxx IIRC
17:48*peter1138 stops the mp3 player too, although it shouldn't have much affect on a quad core...
17:48<@peter1138>Hmm!
17:48<@peter1138>cpu freq scaling...
17:49<@peter1138>stuck at 2.4 now
17:49<@peter1138>that'll help
17:50-!-rortom [~rortom@p57B7DB6B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:51<@peter1138>hee, still running :o
17:51<@peter1138>Maybe 10,000 was too much
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17:53<Ammler>Celestar didn't commit last changes to server...
17:54<Ammler>(how is that called with hg?)
17:54<@peter1138>repo?
17:54-!-rortom_ [~rortom@p57B7DB6B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:56<Ammler>the pendant for svn commit is hg ???
17:56<@Rubidium>hg commit?
17:56<@peter1138>Hmm, 24.38 vs 24.61 seconds for 10000 frames
17:56<@peter1138>i.e. not much in it.
17:56<Ammler>ah ok
17:57<@Rubidium>peter1138: but no drawing at all either
17:57<Ammler>did expect something else :-)
17:57<@peter1138>No drawing?
17:57<@Rubidium>-v null doesn't draw
17:57<@peter1138>Well GfxMainBlitter was called often enough.
17:57<@peter1138>I'm not comparing blitter performance :)
17:57<@Rubidium>yeah, for a 1x1 area and such
17:57<@peter1138>Hmm
17:58<@peter1138>Well... poo
17:59<@peter1138>I need to to draw tiles :o
18:00<@peter1138>*it
18:00<@peter1138>Are you sure it's 1x1? :o
18:00<@Rubidium>it should be, but I'm not 101% sure
18:01-!-rortom [~rortom@p57B7DB6B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:01<@peter1138>dbg: [misc] Forcing blitter 'null'... x 800 y 600
18:02<@peter1138>*If* _screen.width & _screen.height are the important ones...
18:03<FauxFaux>Can we have a larger max screen size yet? :)
18:03<@peter1138>Larger than what?
18:04<Eddi|zuHause2>FauxFaux: that is in trunk for a long time
18:04<@peter1138>Rubidium: big difference, I specified -r 1x1 and it completed in 7.27 seconds
18:04<FauxFaux>It's 2048 at the moment, iirc, I'm sure 0.6.2 doesn't have it.
18:04<FauxFaux>Don't have my other screen here. :/
18:04<Eddi|zuHause2>0.6 won't ever have it.
18:04<@peter1138>0.6.2 is not trunk :)
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18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>is there a plan when to release 0.7?
18:05<FauxFaux>Well, I was assuming that releases were direct snapshots of trunk, whcih means that if it's been in trunk for a long time (read: longer than the time since the latest release)...
18:05<@Rubidium>"when it's done"?
18:06<Eddi|zuHause2>invalid answer, because "done" is not specified ;)
18:06<FauxFaux>Soon!
18:07<@peter1138>FauxFaux, nope, 0.6.2 is based on 0.6 (No such release) which was branched off from trunk quite a long time ago.
18:07<+glx><FauxFaux> Well, I was assuming that releases were direct snapshots of trunk, whcih means that if it's been in trunk for a long time (read: longer than the time since the latest release)... <-- nightlies are trunk snapshots
18:07<FauxFaux>Fair enough. :)
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean, there should be either a timeframe when to feature lock, or a list of features to be completed before the release
18:08<@peter1138>http://svn.bucks.net/~petern/resolver.diff < is the patch I'm profiling.
18:09<@peter1138>Dunno if it's worth bothering with, heh
18:09-!-Milloflex [~ABC123@h-87-111.A175.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:09<@peter1138>Less dependencies in newgrf_spritegroup.h, at least ;)
18:09<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: seems major releases are done about once a year-ish (for quite a long time)
18:09<+glx>resolver refactoring?
18:10<@peter1138>Yeah
18:10<Eddi|zuHause2>i was under the impression it was more like 3/4 years, so the next one could be expected around christmas
18:12<@Rubidium>0.3: apr 2004, 0.4: may 2005, 0.4.5: jan 2006, 0.5: feb 2007, 0.6: mar 2008 <- looks more once-a-year-ish to me
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18:14<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, then indeed my impression was wrong ;)
18:14<@peter1138>So we've got a few months yet to finish stuff ;)
18:14<fjb>Take your time. 0.6 was a big step from 0.5. And 0.7 will have many new features as well. But they have to be tested and fine tuned for release.
18:16<Eddi|zuHause2>there's already quite a number of big features in trunk :)
18:16<fjb>But more to come.
18:17<fjb>What are the obvious big differences between 0.6 and trunk? YAPP and engine pools.
18:17<@Rubidium>rewritten GUI backend
18:18<@Rubidium>conditional orders
18:18<@peter1138>Rewritten backends are not obvious :(
18:18<@peter1138>All that work...
18:18<@peter1138>Aqueducts :D
18:18<@Rubidium>they are in the big diffs
18:18<@peter1138>Station animation
18:18<fjb>Yes, but the rewritten GUI backend is under the hood and no user sees it.
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>rewritten autoreplace ;)
18:19<@peter1138>newgrf presets
18:19<fjb>Ok, station animations and aqueducts are nice, but both features you can live without until next year.
18:20<@peter1138>So basically it's just YAPP...
18:20<@Rubidium>one can live without that too
18:20<@peter1138>No
18:20<@peter1138>You're wrong :D
18:20<Ammler>:-)
18:20<fjb>Newgrf presets are handy, but you can easily work around not having them with different copies of openttd.conf.
18:21<fjb>:-) I can not live without YAPP anymore.
18:21<@peter1138>fjb, yeah... but ever tried to replicate the setup of an existing game?
18:21<Ammler>fjb: well, you forgot about possiblity to export presets from a save
18:21<Ammler>oh :-)
18:21<@peter1138>Hah
18:21<@Rubidium>like 6-7% of the servers is YAPP-able, so 93-94% lives without it
18:21<fjb>But YAPP is _the_ reason to not using 0.6 right now.
18:21<Kloopy>My clan only play official releases, so I'm waiting until 0.7.0 now until I can properly play in a team game again! :(
18:22<Eddi|zuHause2>it was a real pain playing my alpine game without PBS
18:22<Ammler>Kloopy: join better teams :-)
18:22<fjb>peter1138: I did replicate the grf setup. No problem if you know what you are doing.
18:22<Eddi|zuHause2>basically that was my transition time between the miniin and yapp
18:22<Kloopy>Hehe... I got them all to run a trunk compile once, but it kept desyncing, so they've given up on trunk and sticking with releases. :(
18:22<Ammler>fjb: how?
18:22<Progman>Kloopy: clan?
18:23<Kloopy>Me and my friends who play computer games together. We call ourselves CantFitMyN.
18:23<fjb>Ammler: By modifying openttd.conf in a simple text editor.
18:23<Ammler>I meant, how you exported settings from a save
18:24<@peter1138>Ammler, manually, most likely :)
18:24<fjb>By having a look at the grf window in the game.
18:24<@Rubidium>with openttd-sne ofcourse ;)
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18:25<fjb>Grf presets are a nice feature when you have it. I use it now. But I could live without it.
18:25<@peter1138>Sure.
18:25<fjb>It would be no reason for me to switch from 0.6 to trunk.
18:26<Ammler>we got many request for the settings on our games, I am hapyy, we can solve that now.
18:26<Ammler>it might also be possible to live without ottd, maybe ;-)
18:27<@Rubidium>there's always TTD(P)
18:27<fjb>Maybe I grew up with computers without a gui, so I don't see that big advantage in that feature.
18:27<Ammler>well, then without them either :-)
18:27<@Rubidium>Ammler: locomotion ;)
18:28<Ammler>I only know Industry Giant else
18:28<fjb>It was mentioned a few lines above. How did the autoreplace change?
18:29<Ammler>full rewrite from frosch
18:29<Ammler>desync free.
18:29<@Rubidium>we hope...
18:30<Ammler>you might not see much of that on a single player game.
18:30<fjb>The refit options are not duplicated anymore when a vehicle gets repalced ba the same type anmore.
18:30<fjb>I mean when there are some options for the same cargo type.
18:30<Ammler>Rubidium: we have still some few desyncs
18:31<Ammler>but weren't able to reproduce...
18:31<fjb>I saw that with some trams which were refitted to a version with a trailing car. After replacing that tram with one of the same type that didn't have the trailing car anymore.
18:32<Ammler>but that is already some days ago, can't remember desync with current game.
18:32<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: that's more like a feature request than a bug
18:33<fjb>I don't think so. It was explicitly changed in the old autoreplace system. And what would be the sense of that "feature"?
18:34<fjb>I mean not copying the full refit information was considered a bug with the old system.
18:36<fjb>I will talk to frosch about it tomorrow.
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19:32<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause2, you're too good with the small creatures
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19:47<Ammler>night night
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19:53<reldred|werk>Belugas: awake? Got a couple of questions about your implementation of newobjects for openttd.
19:56<Sacro>reldred|werk: he's not been around for a while
19:56<Sacro>@seen Belugas
19:56<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Belugas was last seen in #openttd 24 minutes and 25 seconds ago: <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2, you're too good with the small creatures
19:56<Sacro>oh
19:56<Sacro>maybe he has :p
19:57<reldred|werk>Congratulations Sacro, for you hath failed.
19:57<Sacro>yes :(
19:58<reldred|werk>See, you would have gotten away with it, if you just left the bot out of this.
19:58<reldred|werk>:P
19:59<Sacro>or if i'd have consulted him first
19:59*Sacro kicks DorpsGek
19:59<reldred|werk>;)
19:59<Sacro>though his last line before that was 4 hours ago
20:00-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [your turn ;)]
20:00<reldred|werk>I like this bot :)
20:01<+glx>still no autorejoin
20:01<reldred|werk>Ohwell, it's only Sacro. I get enough of him in #tycoon ;)
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20:15<@Belugas>reldred|werk, go on. i will answer when i can
20:15<@Belugas>i usually spend the evening with my wife, so... be patient :)
20:21<Phantasm>;P
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21:22-!-reldred|werk is now known as reldred|gone
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21:58<DaleStan>Is a link to the "List of download locations topic" valid in the OpenTTD forums?
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---Logclosed Thu Aug 28 00:00:55 2008