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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-09-05

---Logopened Fri Sep 05 00:00:41 2008
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00:16<Forked>oh. new cargodest build? :)
00:18<Elukka>xfire says i have played 40 hours of openttd this week
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00:35<Pikka>I say I say I say
00:35<Pikka>why do my newgrfs always revert to using the DOS pallete?
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00:56<Forked>boioing
00:56<Forked>roboboy: there was a new cargodest build if you haven't seen :)
00:56<roboboy>ok
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00:58<roboboy>hello
00:58<Forked>mornin
00:59<roboboy>my client was mucking up
01:01<DaleStan>Pikka: In which revision? There was a bug to that effect that got fixed recently.
01:03-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d870226.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
01:03<Celestar>morning
01:04<Forked>heya Celestar :)
01:05<Pikka>14239, DaleStan
01:06*roboboy ponders just downloading the binary for the latest cargodest
01:07<DaleStan>Ah. It's fixed in 14245, apparently.
01:08<Pikka>okiedokie then
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01:10<Celestar>hi roboboy
01:10<Celestar>roboboy: about your bug report on flyspray
01:11<roboboy>I just replyed with a coment
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01:14<roboboy>and it just crashed again
01:14<roboboy>doing the same thing
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01:16<roboboy>with the same version as reported
01:16<roboboy>shall I compile the latest source or download the compiled version
01:31<Celestar>roboboy: you can try the binary. it's the latest
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01:46*roboboy waits for openttd to crash if it wants to crash
01:48<roboboy>its fixed
01:48<Celestar>I thought so (=
01:54<@Rubidium>Celestar: that was a short night :)
01:54<Celestar>Rubidium: very
01:54<Celestar>but I need to do a few things this morning :S
01:56<Celestar>...
01:56<Celestar>are people really expecting me to debug stuff when the manually patch cargodest with yet something else?!
01:56<@Rubidium>Celestar: yes they are
01:57<Forked>you mean to don't do that?!?!+1+1+1oneplusplusoneequalstwo
01:57<@Rubidium>for that I added an "unsupported custom build" bug close reason :)
01:57<Celestar>Rubidium: hah
01:57<Celestar>1) Created with patch version against r14127 combined with daylength-patch against r13691.
01:57<Celestar>Do you need something more?
01:57<Celestar>EXACTLY
01:58<Celestar>we NEED infrastructure sharing with cargodest :P
01:58<Celestar>somehow (=
01:59<Celestar>back in an hour or two
01:59*Forked started page 8 of the cargodest thread
01:59<Forked>I win
02:00<Forked>Celestar: that does sound fun - can play coop games with our own companies :)
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02:03<roboboy>I accidently reported a bug the other day
02:03<roboboy>I was just asking a question
02:06<Celestar>oh man I need to code less
02:06<Celestar>every time I see a ":" in the headline of a newpaper I think about "inherits from"
02:08<Celestar>ok bbl really
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02:52<ccfreak2k>Survived:Deceased
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03:05<roboboy>is it possible to with the patch to disable building infrastructure when there is no available vehicles to make the menue hide those options instead of grey them out like TTD did as I prefer it like that
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04:18<fjb>Hello
04:18<[com]buster>hi
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05:02<Celestar>hm
05:02<@peter1138>Morning.
05:02<Celestar>I have some weird yapp issue when a station track is often not cleared
05:02<Celestar>hey peter1138 , how is it?
05:03<Celestar>so who's maintaining yapp?
05:04<@peter1138>Us.
05:04<Celestar>us being?
05:04<@peter1138>Us.
05:04<@peter1138>Us OpenTTD developers.
05:05<@peter1138>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2265 < Related?
05:07<Celestar>yeah
05:07<Celestar>apparently the same
05:07<Celestar>because I had one non-elrail tile :o
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06:02<Pikka>losers!
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06:03<Pikka>:O
06:03<TrueBrain>:o
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06:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14246 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_road.cpp: [NoAI] -Change: DriveThroughStations (from the correct side) are also a valid Neighbour in GetNeighbourRoadCount (patch by Rubidium)
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06:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14247 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_airport.hpp.sq ai_error.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Fix: someone forgot to update the .sq files (well, several times over time ;))
06:25<Ammler>drive through, is the missing penalty of foreign stops fixed?
06:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14248 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
06:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: AISign.GetText() -> AISign.GetName() (more consistant)
06:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: AISign.SetName() (on request)
06:29<@peter1138>Pikka, no, we are winnders, for we have UKRS, and NARS2, and stuffs!
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06:48<Pikka>how rare
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06:57<Pikka>peter, did you do anything with my town building feature request the other day? :)
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07:07<@peter1138>I might've done. What was it?
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07:10<Pikka>coords of building and of town
07:10<Pikka>xy
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07:30<TrueBrain>who of you guys is bored enough to update this list: http://www.openttd.org/about.php
07:30<@peter1138>Not me.
07:31<Pikka>not I!
07:31<TrueBrain>did I ask who not? No. I asked who was.
07:31<Pikka>oh okay
07:31<TrueBrain>(104 people saying: not me, is not that useful ;))
07:31<Pikka>Ammler
07:31<@peter1138>Yes, Ammler wants to do it.
07:31<TrueBrain>okay, Ammler, I expect result within the hour
07:31<TrueBrain>(Hehe :))
07:31<Ammler>:P
07:32*peter1138 ponders a Roland RC-55.
07:32<Ammler>"an AI that is actually worthy of its name " <-- already noAI there?
07:32<TrueBrain>Ammler: hehe, no, and please remove such non-sense
07:33<TrueBrain>(really, who added that?!)
07:33<TrueBrain>I know no AI worthy of its name in trunk
07:33<TrueBrain>well .. only if you call it dumbAI
07:33<Forked>AuI .. aritifical unintelligence
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07:49<Ammler>about.php looks quite empty
07:50<TrueBrain>how do you mean?
07:50<Ammler>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/extra/website/about.php <-- not much to edit?
07:51<Ammler>where is the content?
07:51<TrueBrain>in the DB
07:51<TrueBrain>so use the result of the page
07:51<TrueBrain>copy that
07:51<TrueBrain>as I don't need it to update that page, but I need it to add it to an other page ...
07:52<Ammler>hmm, then it might be best to copy it to the wiki for review...
07:53<TrueBrain>isn't there already a page on the wiki saying almost the same?
07:53<Ammler>I am checking right now
07:53<Ammler>there are about 3 pages
07:54<Ammler>a comparision with TTDPatch
07:54<Ammler>another one with NewGRFs
07:54<TrueBrain>lol
07:54<Ammler>and a page which shows new Featues form major release to major release
07:55<Ammler>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/New_Features_Since_0.5.0
07:57<TrueBrain>well, we need a nice summary for the frontpage
07:57<TrueBrain>with not overdoing it
07:57<TrueBrain>and possible links to the wiki for more info
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08:06<dih>hey ho
08:09<TrueBrain>hi dih :)
08:09<dih>hey is you TrueBrain ?
08:10<TrueBrain>you english speak do?
08:10<dih>at times i try
08:10<dih>:-P
08:10<dih>oh - that was supposed to be 'how is you...
08:11<TrueBrain>even so
08:11<TrueBrain>not english ;)
08:11<TrueBrain>but I am fine :) Working hard .. :)
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08:11<TrueBrain>and currently I seem to leak red liquid from my head
08:11<TrueBrain>is that a bad thing?
08:12<SmatZ>+ return (::IsTileType(tile, MP_CLEAR) && ::GetClearGround(tile) == CLEAR_ROCKS);
08:12<SmatZ>errr wrong windoe
08:13<TrueBrain>hehe
08:13<dih>openttd_django.urls
08:13<TrueBrain>dih: wrong channel
08:13<dih>could it be that you have a "^ " too many infront of most lines
08:13<dih>ah
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08:20<dih>www.openttd.org/abaut.php "an AI that is actually worthy of its name " <- LOL
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08:24<dih>Ammler?
08:24<dih>ah forget it :-P
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08:36<Ammler>actually, waypoints are still no replacement for "dummy 1 tile stations" :-)
08:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14249 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
08:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: various landscape query routines (AITile.IsSnowTile, ..) (on request)
08:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: AITile.PlantTree(Rectangle) (on request)
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>AI learning how to cheat the rating system?
08:40<SmatZ>:)
08:40<FauxFaux><3
08:45<Ammler>1. run, now new things :-) http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php?title=Website%2FAbout&diff=28838&oldid=28837
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09:04<roboboy>whats the mercurial source path for cargodest
09:04<TrueBrain>http://hg.openttd.org/developers/celestar/cargodest.hg/
09:05<roboboy>thank you
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09:14<roboboy>how long will it take mercurial to download all the files roughly?
09:15<roboboy>its at adding changes and is working'
09:15<roboboy>and I have a .hg dir
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09:16<Eddi|zuHause>the first checkout (hg clone) takes quite long
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>the incremental ones (hg pull) don't take very long afterwards
09:17<roboboy>ok
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>you don't copy the files, you copy the whole repository (i.e. all changesets individually)
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09:23<roboboy>do I compile the source just like any source?
09:24<roboboy>once finished cloneing
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>yes, ./configure && make
09:26<Ammler>what do you think about? http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php?title=Website%2FAbout&diff=28845&oldid=28837
09:27<Ammler>links to wiki could be added too.
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09:28<TrueBrain>looks good Ammler
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>hey... i was thinking today... (in conjunction with "individual traffic"), how good would the system cope (pool size, memory usage, destination generation) when every tile was a station?
09:28<dih>15:27 < Eddi|zuHause> hey... i was thinking today... <- no way!
09:29<Ammler>cheats can be removed...
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09:30<Ammler>also replaced patches with advanced options
09:31<Ammler>the dear translators should do that too ;-)
09:31<+glx>I did it a long time ago for french ;)
09:31-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>in this idea, passengers could "walk" from one "station" to an adjacent station, and continue to do so to their target. they will "walk" to a player's station and take their vehicles when they offer a better route to the destination. in later years, the passengers could "drive cars" along roads, and the evaluation of the "best route" would change
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>that way, you would have to improve your network, or you won't get any further passengers
09:33-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:33<dih>did you sleep well Eddi?
09:33<Ammler>hmm, now we need something for 32bpp
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>also, you can get away with building a station 2km outside the village, without worrying about "catchment area"
09:34<dih>support for 32 bit graphics
09:34<Ammler>glx: the german translators are all dead...
09:34*dih is here
09:34<Celestar>catchment area are quickly disabled
09:34<dih>i am alive :-P
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>because the passengers would "walk" the way into the village
09:34<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: but to answer your question: not well
09:34<Ammler>dih: I mean the official translators :P
09:34<Ammler>or are you one of them?
09:34<dih>you mean for translating the game strings?
09:35<Ammler>yes.
09:35<dih>yes i am one of them :-P
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>there haven't been any updates to the german translation in months...
09:36<dih>not true
09:36<dih>there have been a few updates
09:36<dih>small thingies
09:36<ecke>is there any "stable" version with infrastucture sharing? nothing else only sharing
09:37<dih>that is a cute request
09:37<dih>you wanna patch something to your liking and call it stable ?
09:37<Ammler>dih: it might be worth, you are trying to open OpenTTD and check the strings there too.
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>dih: have you ever considered www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/german_plural.txt
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>gnah
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/german_plural.diff
09:39<dih>i have only been added to the translators a few weeks ago
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>and i made that diff half a year ago
09:40*yorick congratulates dih
09:40<roboboy>whats the difference between release and debug?
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: release is usually more optimised
09:41<dih>roboby: i'll let you google those 2 words, or check wikipedia :-P
09:41<roboboy>ok
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: while debug makes it easier to see what is going on during the running system
09:42<dih>MaSch just did like 41 strings in german....
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>there were no translation updates between 20. March and 20. August
09:46<dih>there were no commited updates....
09:46<dih>that is something else
09:46<dih>and that is not quite true
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>only "apply changes from english.txt to all language files" inbetween
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>no real translation
09:47<dih>21. august was one commit
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>and 21. august is "between 20. march and 20. august"?
09:49<dih>oh - i read 30th :-D
09:49<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: if 20 march and 20 august in in different years ...
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>"when do christmas and new year fall into the same year?"
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09:55<Ammler>dih: a liesmich.txt would be nice
09:57-!-reldred is now known as reldred|gone
09:57<dih>Unexpected sprite. -> Unerwartete Cola
09:57<dih>:-P
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09:58<Eddi|zuHause>zitronengeschmackhaltiges Zuckerwasser
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>(that is likely the longest word written here in the past few months)
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10:00<ecke>... we play TiPP version but cometimes sync error... and now wehn client want to connect they dont see companies, when i was to se full cargo in goto i see crash....
10:00<ecke>set
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>we don't support patch packs here.
10:01<ecke>ok ...
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10:01<Eddi|zuHause>http://failblog.org/2008/09/04/parking-lot-fail-2/ <- wtf?
10:01<ecke>is there any possibility how to try fix these proplems while playing? ... i mean try to delete network ID ... or something
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>ecke: make a savegame on the server, and restart the server
10:03<ecke>and is there any others which can help? ... repack game... reset some variables ... dont use PBS ...?
10:04<ecke>i would like some pack but only with sharing to minimaze problems
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>patch packs are known to be unstable
10:04<ecke>a dont want some smokes and others blafs
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>track sharing used to have problems when combined with PBS
10:05<ecke>i know... but how to minimaze these problems...
10:05<ecke>yes thats why we dont use them
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>other than "don't use track sharing"?
10:05-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater60.hku.nl] has quit []
10:05<ecke>i switched pbs off in settings
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>if you really only want track sharing, no other patch, then you can try to compile just this patch
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>or check if there are precompiled binaries in the patch thread
10:07<ecke>we have mostly huge rail system connected to each other a ... incidentally crash .... bad :/
10:08*roboboy waits for visual studio
10:08<ecke>Eddi|zuHause and is there any chance that sharing will be in stable soon?
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>if "soon" means "within the next 2 years", maybe...
10:09<ecke>:D
10:09<ecke>...
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>in the current state, i wouldn't count on it
10:09<ecke>so I really forward to signals in tunnels and bridges
10:09<Ammler>ecke: we use sharing every half year, so it should be at least from time to time be a working patch there
10:09<ecke>Eddi|zuHause why not? ... for unstablity
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10:10<Ammler>(we=wwottdgd)
10:10<Ammler>you could try the last wwottdgd patch
10:11<yorick>"please define the CC/CXX environment to where it is located" <-- how to do that?
10:11<ecke>Ammler .... i exactly dont understand
10:11<ecke>Ammler you are developer of sharing?
10:11<yorick>he isn't
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: with VS? you don't.
10:11<yorick>Eddi: not with VS
10:11<+glx>yorick: it didn't detect gcc/g++
10:12<yorick>I know that
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>with all other environments, that should be already defined
10:12<yorick>I can run gcc from bash
10:12<yorick>so I think it's the variable
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>export CC=`which gcc`
10:12<yorick>thanks :-P
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>export CXX=`which g++`
10:13<Ammler>yorick: I am :P
10:13<yorick>no you aren't
10:13<Ammler>I wrote the most important patch for wwottdgd :P
10:13<Ammler>ecke: well, he is right, I am not.
10:14<ecke>Ammler but you know a lot of about sharing... if yes... could you send me topic where is newest version... I ll try to compile :D
10:15<Ammler>ecke: there is one patch about IS, you should know that one
10:15<yorick>Eddi: it did not work...
10:15<Ammler>one thread
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: your environment is screwed
10:16<ecke>Ammler I play OTTD twotimes in year :) ... so
10:16<yorick>I'm just installing a new enviroment, because my old one was screwed
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: what's the output of ./configure?
10:16<Ammler>ecke: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Wwottdgd
10:17<yorick>http://paste.openttd.org/79688
10:17<Ammler>ecke: last event: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/WWOTTDGD2#Development_Roadmap
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>what does windres do?
10:18<yorick>?
10:19<Yexo>man windres: windres - manipulate Windows resources.
10:19<yorick>Eddi: not being installed
10:19<ecke>max clients number is 55 ... holy :D
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: then you forgot a step in installing mingw/msys?
10:19<ecke>55 players building on one map?
10:19<hylje>thats the point goddamn
10:19<ecke>is it stable game?
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>ecke: with tracksharing that is like 7 players per company
10:20<yorick>Eddi: where should windres be?
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: installed :p
10:20<ecke>Eddi|zuHause looks good... how long is one game?
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: follow exactly the instructions on the wiki
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>ecke: i have not taken part there... i'd guess one weekend
10:21<yorick>yes, it failed compiling wget
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>compiling?!?
10:21<yorick>but the wget errors are not helpful
10:21<ecke>Build with the Terrain. You either go around/over/through or you don't go at all! We are going to add a grf to significantly increase terraforming costs. Why? Because we want to preserve the landscape, amongst other things. ..... so thats nice .. but without signals in tunnels and bridges
10:21<yorick>yes, compiling
10:21<Ammler>ecke: we played 2 games yet
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>why would you compile anything when installing mingw?
10:22<Ammler>one a year ago, the other 2 months
10:22<Ammler>those games took around 30 hours.
10:22<yorick>Eddi: because you need to install libs
10:22<ecke>Ammler and this version which you play.. is it "stable"
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: you can get BINARIES.
10:22<Ammler>it was stable "enough"
10:23<ecke>no desync and others?
10:23<Ammler>not no, but few
10:23<ecke>but game was finished by you not by bug? :))
10:23<yorick>Eddi: from what is described in the wiki, "Compiling wget"
10:23<Ammler>last game, we had trouble with replace as all 0.6er has
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: skip that part. get wget binaries
10:24<yorick>installing binutils should do
10:24<yorick>:-P
10:24<dih>Ammler: we could start planing #3
10:24<ecke>Ammler ... our games mostly finish by bug or desync :/
10:25<ecke>Ammler ... replace? ... what is this problem?
10:25<yorick>Eddi: the binaries sometimes fail at being vista-compatible
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: my philosophy is: do not compile any code that you did not modify yourself
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>for everything else there should be binary packages
10:25<yorick>curiously, the wget mingwPORT includes wget, so it can download and compile itself :-p
10:26<Ammler>dih: you want to make next game in 2 weeks :P
10:26<dih>hehe
10:26<dih>i would not manage that this time
10:26<dih>hehe
10:27<Ammler>we wait for cargodest in trunk :-)
10:27<ecke>Ammler ... where can I download your version?
10:27<Ammler>cargodest with IS could be fun
10:28<Celestar>Ammler: we're planning that (=
10:28<Ammler>ecke: let me check
10:28<Ammler>hehe :-D
10:28<Celestar>at least peter1138 and I are dreaming of it :P
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>but when you divide into local and long-distance companies, the local companies will hopelessly go down with the negative transfer income
10:30<ecke>"Ammler: ecke: let me check" ?
10:30<Ammler>the wwottdgd server is currently down
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>ecke: he must search where he put it :p
10:31<ecke>Eddi|zuHause :D ok
10:31<Ammler>in which "ecke"
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>:p
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10:31<yorick>"sys/socket.h: No such file or directory" hmpf
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: really... don't compile anything...
10:32<Celestar>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=725688#p725688 <= I do _NOT_ like the tone of this guy
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>the person who wrote compiling in the wiki is an idiot...
10:32<yorick>still, why does it miss sys/socket.h
10:34<yorick>Eddi: the latest available wget binary is 1.11.9
10:35-!-fjb [~frank@p5485BE27.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:35<yorick>1.11.4*
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: so?
10:35<yorick>that's ancient
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: so?
10:35<yorick>ancient isn't good if you are trying to upgrade
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>wget --version
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>GNU Wget 1.11.1
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>it can't be that ancient...
10:37<Celestar>bbl
10:37-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:37<yorick>latest is Wget 1.9
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>11>9?
10:38<Ammler>ecke: http://wwottdgd.openttdcoop.org/patches/2/
10:38<yorick>1.11.9*
10:38<Ammler>but that isn't the final one :-)
10:39<Ammler>it is only the final client
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: you really suck... you are now on /ignore... i can't handle you anymore...
10:39<yorick>:(
10:39<ecke>Ammler ... ou i think you could send me win32 and linux version (client, server) ... :))
10:40<Ammler>ha
10:40<ecke>:)
10:40<Ammler>well, I check... :P
10:40<Ammler>ecke: win32 client: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=94274
10:40<ecke>ohh .... thx ... I am looking forward to play, without errors
10:41<Ammler>hmm
10:41-!-[BiG^BrotheR] [Dr-DreaM@87.101.133.222] has joined #openttd
10:41<Ammler>I will add those links to the wiki, else I spam here too much...
10:42<ecke>:)
10:43<yorick>it should auto-disable checking libpng and freetype if zlib is not found, instead of error
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10:44<@Rubidium>nah, it should give a big error when zlib is not found
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10:46<roboboy>gnight soon
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>bigger than the one when sdl is not found (and which still everyone ignores)?
10:46<yorick>I dont care about sdl, I don't need sdl, and I don't use sdl
10:46<ecke>it will be nice ... so now I am ready to play... but I know man, he has this http://www.tweetyservers.com/ ... around 30 servers... he would like to run ottd public server... he has debian on server... so if you could send me files for linux ... and if I will have still power... I could run server for wwottdgd3 or other... server have 2Gb/s ... and its really high performance server
10:47<yorick>Rubidium: --without-zlib should disable the other warnings then
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: i meant "no videodriver"
10:47<yorick>:)
10:47<@Rubidium>without zlib makes openttd more unuseable than missing sdl
10:48<yorick>just it has no saveload compatibility...
10:48-!-thvdburgt [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
10:48<+glx>savegames are compatible ;)
10:48<yorick>glx: if you unpack them first
10:48-!-[BiG^BrotheR] [Dr-DreaM@87.101.133.222] has quit [Quit: ][DreaM-ScripT][]
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>he means making savegames.
10:48<+glx>any other client can open uncompressed saves
10:49<yorick>yes
10:52-!-fjb [~frank@p5485DAA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:52<ecke>Ammler ^^^
10:55-!-LilDood [~IceChat7@cpc2-bolt5-0-0-cust370.manc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
10:56<Ammler>ecke: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/World_Wide_OpenTTD_Game_Day/2#Bundles
10:57<ecke>Ammler nice... i see that no grf for trams in pack
10:57<Ammler>of course
10:58<dih>"service non-stop at"
10:58<dih>a non-stop service :-P
10:58<dih>never stop servicing :-D
10:59<ecke>you dont use trams in wwottdgd?
10:59<Ammler>we used around 50 NewGRFs
10:59<Ammler>I am sure, there was a tramset
11:00<ecke>50? :D
11:00<Ammler>well, maybe more
11:00<ecke>could you add all files to web? :)
11:00<Ammler>no
11:00<ecke>i want to try :)
11:01<Ammler>let me look for the start save
11:03<ecke>hmm ... in your version.... when the asiastar go uphill ... its too much slow down
11:03<Ammler>ecke: default settings
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11:04<ecke>what do you think... can i use settings from tiPP or is it risky?
11:06<ecke>i ll try it
11:07<dih>Eddi|zuHause: 85 strings on next commit ;-)
11:07<Ammler>ecke: try that save: http://wwottdgd.openttdcoop.org/save/uploads/wwottdgd2_trunk_r13584_final_h.sav
11:07<ecke>timeout
11:07<ecke>i have timeout from this web
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11:11*yorick finally completed installing a sane enviroment
11:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r14250 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
11:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-09-05 15:13:08
11:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 9 fixed by TrueTenacity (9)
11:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 19 fixed by tperic (19)
11:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 5 fixed, 50 changed by Hadez (55)
11:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 5 fixed by habell (5)
11:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 9 fixed by kristjans (9)
11:14<@peter1138>Oh, translations are no longer committed 'by' mihamix :)
11:14<TrueBrain>peter1138: for a long time that is already
11:15<@peter1138>Only a month.
11:15-!-thvdburgt [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:15<yorick>would it be possible for the makefile.bundle to support 7zip?
11:16<TrueBrain>peter1138: well, ever since svn+ssh was introduced ;)
11:16<TrueBrain>even more as MiHaMiX himself didn't commit anything for like 6 months :p
11:17<@Rubidium>if 7zip has a command line tool then you can add that
11:17<dih>hehe
11:17<yorick>Rubidium: 7zip is a commandline utility with a gui
11:17<@Rubidium>otherwise you need to install autoit or so and script it that way
11:18<TrueBrain>any pack-tool which comes with a GUI can't be any good
11:20<@orudge>yorick: if we already support zip, tar.gz and tar.bz2, though, do we really need another format though, imho?
11:20<yorick>orudge: do you support zip for windows?
11:21<@orudge>do I support it?
11:21<@orudge>well, Windows binaries are distributed as .exe and .zip, no?
11:21<@orudge>and source is in .zip, .tgz and .tbz2
11:21<yorick>those are built from linux
11:21<dih>so?
11:21<dih>what's the issue yorick?
11:21<TrueBrain>if you make a .zip in linux, you can't read it from windows?
11:22<+glx>a zip is a zip
11:22<@orudge>quite
11:22<dih>aye
11:22<yorick>I WANT TO MAKE ZIP BUNDLES FROM WINDOWS
11:22<dih>and it's not like 7z cannot extract zip tar tar.gz or tar.bz2
11:22<TrueBrain>@kick yorick capitals
11:22-!-yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [capitals]
11:22-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
11:22<dih>hihi
11:22<dih>27
11:22<+glx>make bundle_zip
11:22<@orudge>yorick: does the makefile not let you do that using the infozip `zip' tool?
11:22<yorick>glx: error: zip: command not found
11:22<@orudge>well
11:22<+glx>install it
11:22<TrueBrain>mingw has 'zip' tool too (he CLI variant)
11:22<@orudge>download zip
11:23<@orudge>www.info-zip.org
11:23<yorick>I can't find it for windows
11:23<@orudge>look harder
11:23<TrueBrain>orudge: mingw has a zip CLI Too
11:23<dih>that is something else yorick
11:23<+glx>gnuwin32.sf.net
11:23<@orudge>http://www.info-zip.org/Zip.html#Downloads
11:23<@orudge>binaries for everyy OS imaginable ;)
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>dih: they better be good :p
11:23<dih>not finding something does not mean it's a good reason to add something one can find to a project
11:23<dih>Eddi|zuHause: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/changeset?old_path=trunk%2Fsrc%2Flang%2Fgerman.txt&old=14250&new_path=trunk%2Fsrc%2Flang%2Fgerman.txt&new=14250
11:24<TrueBrain>and it is not like we don't make zip-bundles on a windows machine :)
11:24<TrueBrain>(lol, it would be really bad, if zip CLI wasn't avialable on windows :) Would be fun ;))
11:24*orudge recalls the days of PKZIP and PKUNZIP in DOS
11:24<Doorslammer>:O
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>"Schliessung von Industrien" <- you're not serious about that, are you?
11:25<TrueBrain>and tbav!
11:25<Doorslammer>Please dont recall those
11:25<@orudge>and PKZIPSFX!
11:25<+glx>I still have pkzip and pkunzip somewhere
11:25<Doorslammer>:S
11:25<+glx>same for arj
11:25<@orudge>lzh! arc!
11:25<TrueBrain>lha ;)
11:25<TrueBrain>(morphos needs thatone :p)
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>"Schließen von Industrien" please
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>and "Eröffnen" likewise
11:26<TrueBrain>I have to say, I am suprised 7zip can do better compression than bzip2
11:26<TrueBrain>that in this age they still can improve such tools
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_DEFAULT_SIGNAL_PBS :Fortgeschritten
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_CYCLE_SIGNAL_PBS :nur Erweiterte
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>very inconsistent
11:27<dih>was not me :-P
11:27<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: fix it
11:27<dih>hihi
11:27<Ammler>TrueBrain: 7zip rocks
11:27<Ammler>it makes also better zips then other zip tools
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>"Bitte Ihren Name eingeben" <- wtf?
11:27<yorick>^^
11:28<TrueBrain>Ammler: lol, is it possible to make better or worse zip files?
11:28<TrueBrain>I thought zip was zip :p
11:28<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: but 7zip != zip, i.e. 7zip's files aren't readable by plain zip
11:28<Ammler>grfpack is about 5% smaller with 7zip zip then with zip zip :-)
11:28<TrueBrain>Rubidium: well, dah :) Like bzip2 is not readable by zip :p
11:29<TrueBrain>but I assume Ammler was refering to a zip, and not 7zip
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>"Klicke um nach größe zu sortieren" <- comma before "um" and "Größe"
11:29<TrueBrain>(7zip can produce gz, bzip2, and other formats, as far as I know)
11:29<TrueBrain>Ammler: funny :)
11:29<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: do it in private
11:29<dih>Ammler: compare 7z with bz2 ;-)
11:29<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: better yet: mailto:translator@openttd.org
11:30<TrueBrain>(and ask for an account)
11:30<TrueBrain>(not send your problems there)
11:30<Ammler>7za a -l -tzip -mx=9 $PACKNAME.zip ottdc_grfpack
11:30<dih>Eddi|zuHause: mailto dih@openttdcoop.org
11:30<TrueBrain>@spam dih@openttdcoop.org
11:30<TrueBrain>mwhahahaha
11:30<yorick>it can do that?
11:30<dih>TrueBrain: you know who filters the spam on that address?
11:30<@DorpsGek>Initiated SPAM
11:31<TrueBrain>dih: doh!
11:31<TrueBrain>yorick: clearly
11:31<yorick>I detect @say
11:31<@DorpsGek>FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE
11:31<@DorpsGek>yorick! LIE
11:31<TrueBrain>I gave too many people control over DorpsGek :p
11:32<Ammler>we create our packs that way: http://paste.openttd.org/79766
11:32<+glx>really ?
11:32<Ammler>the resulting sizes: http://www.openttdcoop.org/newgrfs/
11:33<TrueBrain>Ammler: you have slightly better results by doing:
11:34<TrueBrain>tar cvf test.tar <files>
11:34<TrueBrain>bzip -9 test.tar
11:34<TrueBrain>(depending on your version of bzip btw, mine has 9 as default :p)
11:34<Ammler>yeah, should be here too
11:34<@Belugas>yeah... 4th mug of coffee since this morning
11:34<@Belugas>I
11:35<@Belugas>M NOT NERVOUIS AT ALL!!!!!
11:35-!-Belugas was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [capitals]
11:35<Ammler>but those packs are done by dihs server
11:35<dih>i love tose black shirts
11:35-!-Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd
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11:35<dih>hihi
11:35-!-el_En [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd
11:35<Ammler>dih: do you know your default bzip2 ?
11:35<dih>?
11:35<Ammler>compression rate
11:35<dih>no sorry - never met him in person
11:36<dih>nope
11:36<Ammler>also nice is, bzip2 is almost the same as gzip
11:36<dih>tis not
11:36<Ammler>well, not nice, but silly.
11:36<dih>bz2 is way better
11:36<dih>compression wise
11:36<TrueBrain>Ammler: bzip2 is only better in text-files
11:37<TrueBrain>not in binary files
11:37<Ammler>maybe somewhere else, but not with tar.
11:37<dih>?
11:37<Ammler>TrueBrain: does that matter in tars?
11:37<yorick>s/in/with
11:37<TrueBrain>Ammler: LOL!
11:38<Ammler>ok, it does :P
11:38<TrueBrain>a tar is just a small file-system or how ever you want to compare it to
11:38<dih>hihi
11:38<TrueBrain>there is no compression
11:38<TrueBrain>it just puts files inside a single file
11:38<@orudge>a tape archive!
11:38<Ammler>and gzip checks, what is in tar
11:38<TrueBrain>so a tar of text-files is still much better compressed with bzip2 than with gzip
11:38<@orudge>we should distribute OpenTTD on tape
11:38<@orudge>we could sell them in the new shop!
11:38<dih>yay
11:38<dih>tapes rock :-P
11:38<@orudge>we might have to sell tape drives to go with them though...
11:39<dih>nah
11:39-!-Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit []
11:39<dih>nobody wants a tape drive...
11:39<dih>but tapes... :-P
11:39<TrueBrain>tape .. haven't used htat in AGES
11:39*dih has a tape drive for backup
11:39<fjb>Duct tape?
11:39<dih>quack
11:39*yorick also has a tape drive for msx thingies
11:40<TrueBrain>well, I am off, doing some rock-climbing for the next few hours
11:40<dih>only 69 strings in need of translation for ger
11:40<Ammler>http://nightly.openttd.org/source/ almost 20%
11:40<TrueBrain>hav efun all!
11:40<yorick>don't fall!
11:40<dih>enjoy TB
11:40<TrueBrain>I will fall
11:40<TrueBrain>many times
11:40<Ammler>and nothing with newgrfs
11:40<dih>TB is falling is falling is falling
11:40<@orudge>enjoy, TrueBrain
11:40<yorick>don't use incompatible newgrfs
11:40<dih>TB falles like a sweet spring rain....
11:40<TrueBrain>well .. I am going to try 6b walls .. they are HARD
11:40<dih>well they would be
11:41<dih>try matraces
11:41<TrueBrain>my fingers will hurt .. oh well
11:41<TrueBrain>bye :)
11:41<dih>:-)
11:41<Ammler>7zip is much better in compression with similar binaries, somehow possilbe?
11:41<Ammler>like if I compress 2 versions of same NewGRF
11:41<yorick>yes, it has a better binary compression algorithm, apparently
11:43<dih>psyche :-P
11:45<dih>orudge: those black shirts would look awsome with code all over them :-D
11:45<yorick>dih: I did some discoveries...bruteforcing a server without being ingame with a password >3 chars is not going to work, it has a limit of 256 ticks for the join process, and bruteforcing slows the server down quite a bit
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11:46<yorick>yes, I was testing how much time it would take to bruteforce, and if it would have any noticable effect serverside...it does flood the debug console, and if you try to clear it, it crashes
11:46-!-stillunk1own [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit []
11:46<dih>hehe
11:46<dih>that's good to know :-P
11:46<yorick>(no, I won't publish the script) :-p
11:48<SmatZ>it crashes the script or ottd?
11:48<yorick>it crashes openttd if developer is set to 2
11:48<yorick>and you want to do "clear"
11:48<yorick>but I haven't been able to reproduce
11:49<dih>well - then that is a silly statement with 'it crashes' should rather be 'it crashed' :_P
11:49<dih>dos protection would still not be a bad thing!
11:50<yorick>but if you are in the game, you can go on bruteforcing on and on and on and on and on until you have the password
11:50<dih>yep
11:50<dih>sure you can
11:50<yorick>you do slow the server down
11:50<dih>and you can time it so that the players dont notice it
11:51<dih>just like copy and paste does if you dont limit the pasting speed
11:51<yorick>but copy-paste only does it for a few seconds
11:51<dih>still noticeable
11:52<yorick>bruteforcing is far more noticable
11:52<yorick>you can't even move the mouse if you have a gui server
11:52<dih>yorick: TIME it
11:53<yorick>you have experience?
11:53<dih>just need to use your thinker
11:53<dih>if you dont want somebody to notice something that takes a bunch of time
11:54<dih>you slow the process down, do it bit by bit
11:54<yorick>my thinker is currently working on installing boost on a sane build-enviroment
11:55<Ammler>made test with 7zip and source of ottd: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/test/
11:56<Ammler>7zip zip is indeed not better for text files
11:56<yorick>then it is a bad idea to use if for text files
11:57<Ammler>well, it is also not worse :P
11:57<Ammler>and 7z self is about 20% smaller then bzip2
11:57<dih>if it's not much better it's no use adding it, is it now
11:57<Ammler>?
12:00<dih>laters
12:00<Ammler>there was one better compressor then 7zip but ugly slow...
12:01<yorick>lha?
12:01<Ammler>doesn't 7zip use that?
12:01<yorick>hm, yes
12:01<FauxFaux>lzma?
12:01<yorick>yes that
12:01<SmatZ>uc2
12:02<SmatZ>http://www.maximumcompression.com/index.html if you want another fine compressors ;)
12:03<@orudge>we should compress everything using lzip
12:03<planetmaker>I can compress anything into one bit. But the key to decode would be quite long then :P
12:03<@orudge>aww, lzip has been removed from sourceforge :(
12:03-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:03<SmatZ>what is lzip?
12:04<@orudge>http://slashdot.org/articles/01/03/31/0516216.shtml
12:04<yorick>wasn't there some rainbow color format, where they claimed to store 256GB on a sheet of paper?
12:04<SmatZ>ah :-D
12:06<FauxFaux>yorick: I thought it was closer to 400kb in any kind of reliable way?
12:06<fjb>You can compress every file down to the size of one byte.
12:07<FauxFaux>~30 million dots on a piece of a4 at 600dpi -> <4mb in black'n'white.
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12:16<fjb>Moin frosch123
12:17<frosch123>quak fjb
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12:18<Ammler>SmatZ: I miss the time on that table
12:19<fjb>Time on a table? Isn't that called a clock?
12:20<yorick>no, it is called time on that table
12:21<Ammler>:-P
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12:31<SmatZ>Ammler: what table?
12:31<SmatZ>ahhh
12:32<SmatZ>http://www.maximumcompression.com/data/summary_mf3.php for example, sorted by compression time :)
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12:33<@Belugas>Ammler, just put your watch on the table ^_^
12:33<Rexxars>"Failed to find a graphics set." - what?
12:34<yorick>Rexxars: upgrade to newer revision
12:34<Rexxars>I just compiled from svn
12:34<yorick>subversion?
12:34<Rexxars>..yes?
12:34<yorick>on windows?
12:34<Rexxars>correct
12:34<yorick>try unix2dossing your obg files
12:35<yorick>in the bin/data directory
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12:40<Celestar>hm
12:40<Celestar>can a failed autosave be a desync reason?
12:42<Rexxars>yorick: still getting problems :/
12:44<frosch123>Celestar: btw. do you still suspect autoreplace in cargodest to be a desyncer?
12:44<Celestar>frosch123: suspect yes.
12:44<Celestar>frosch123: I have a route-leak somewhere
12:44<Celestar>it might be autorenew-related
12:45<frosch123>Note that the massreplace in the depot is the only autoreplace thingie that can cause desyncs.
12:45<yorick>"Windows can't remove file, directory not found"
12:45<yorick>"Do you want to look for the file to delete?"
12:46<frosch123>so maybe in your next big test game, only allow a few players to use that function. If only they desync you could identity autoreplace to be the problem
12:46<yorick>but what if that causes everyone to desync?
12:48<frosch123>well, either use a dedicated server, or do not allow the server-client to use it
12:49<Celestar>frosch123: I don't think it's autoreplace or cargodest; much rather the interface between them both
12:50<frosch123>anyway, for normal autoreplace everything is executed in parallel on all clients. So it can crash or whatever, but not desync
12:50<frosch123>only a player clicking the massreplace button in depot can cause desyncs
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13:21<Wolf01>hello
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13:23<Elukka>hi
13:24<Wolf01>I'm sad again :(
13:24<Wolf01>I found another bug
13:24<Wolf01>when opening the console
13:25<Wolf01>the main toolbar stay always on top
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13:30<+glx>and?
13:31<+glx>it's not a bug, main toolbar and status bar are always on top
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13:41<Celestar>frosch123: I know everything is executed in parallel. but if i did wrong calls during the autoreplace ...
13:42<Celestar>it will "autorepair" after a reset of the routing system, or a reconnect or whatever.
13:43<frosch123>heh, but for depot massreplace it is _not_ executed in parallel :)
13:44<Wolf01>glx I can't see what's written under if they are always on top!
13:45<frosch123>Wolf01: You can scroll with shift-up/down
13:48<Wolf01>ok, but it's not nice... console should be always on top like everywhere
13:52<Celestar>... some people on the forums are really ungrateful gits
13:52<@Belugas>welcome to "reality"
13:52<@Belugas>hehe
13:54<Elukka>hmm
13:54<Elukka>has anyony ever done scenarios for ECS?
13:54<Celestar>TrueBrain: need a compile :P
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13:55<@Belugas>Elukka, more than once
13:55<Celestar>damn
13:55<Celestar>I have misplaced my TV
13:56<+glx>Celestar: mine is behind me
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13:58*Belugas thinks Celestar's tv must be quite small to be misplaced
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13:58<Elukka>sorry, had to reboot, vista thought it an apt time to go cuckoo
13:59<Celestar>Belugas: USB adaptor (DVB-T). about as large as an USB stick
14:04*Celestar is happy that KDE's device selector opens data DVDs in the "media player" and video DVDs in the file browser :P
14:04<+glx>hmm but video DVDs are data DVDs
14:05<Celestar>note to self: DVD playback + make -j3 don't together well
14:05<+glx>single core?
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14:05<Celestar>glx: yeah.
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14:06<Celestar>glx: my new notebook is still somewhere in shipping
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14:10<Celestar>peter1138: I think I found it
14:10<Celestar>at least one of them
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14:52<@peter1138>Gah, the widest keyboard standard I can find is too narrow by 4cm.
14:53<fjb>Too narrow for what?
14:54<@peter1138>*stand
14:54<Rexxars>what kind of monsterous keyboard do you have?
14:54<fjb>Oh. Cut your keyboard.
14:55<Wolf01>I have a weird narrow keyboard
14:56<Wolf01>it's like the laptop one
14:56<Wolf01>the keys are in a strange position, like the del between the right ctrl and the alt keys
14:57<Wolf01>I hate it
14:57<Wolf01>do you want it?
14:57<Wolf01>only 40cm wide
14:58<Wolf01>and it have the numpad too!
14:58<@peter1138>Blah, everyone assumes computer keyboard :o
14:58<@Belugas>lol
14:58<Celestar>A normal keyboard is 148cm, is it not?
14:58<Wolf01>I have a piano keyboard too
14:58<Celestar>88 keys
14:58<@Belugas>no one noticed the "stand" iguess :)
14:59<@peter1138>Celestar, it is about that. Its rubber feet are 115cm apart.
14:59<Ammler>@seen xaha*
14:59<@DorpsGek>Ammler: I haven't seen anyone matching xaha*.
14:59<Celestar>peter1138: I know that problem
14:59<Wolf01>I thought the stand was a support like the ones you can use to attach the keyboard to the desktop -.-'''
14:59<Mucht>@seen xaho*
14:59<@DorpsGek>Mucht: xaho* could be xahodo (2 weeks, 2 days, 3 hours, 26 minutes, and 33 seconds ago) or xahodo|afk (15 weeks, 6 days, 9 hours, 16 minutes, and 44 seconds ago)
14:59<Celestar>peter1138: well not at home because I don't have keyboards. Only real (Grand) pianos
15:00<@peter1138>Plural? :o
15:00<Celestar>peter1138: two
15:00<@peter1138>:o
15:00<@peter1138>Do you live in a mansion?
15:00<Celestar>one Yamaha, 172cm and a real one :P
15:00<Celestar>peter1138: normal ... how do you call it .... semi-detached(?) house?
15:01<@peter1138>I could probably fit one upright piano in, but not a grand.
15:05<@peter1138>Maybe I could build something out of wood...
15:05<@peter1138>Although knowning my skills it'll wobble.
15:05<@peter1138>*knowing
15:06<@peter1138>http://www.flatrock.org.nz/wolf/images/truly_grand_piano.jpg
15:06<Celestar>peter1138: apparently, I found it (=
15:06<@peter1138>^ How... ugly.
15:07<Celestar>peter1138: the desync I mean :P
15:08<@peter1138>Oh... didn't you say that before? :p
15:08<Celestar>we've tested it somewhat meanwhile :P
15:09<fjb>Schimmel Pianos are build about 50km from here.
15:10-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1C85E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:10<Celestar>wb Progman
15:12<fjb>They usually look way better.
15:13<Celestar>nothing like a nice Steinway (=
15:19<@peter1138>Rubidium, what does 'Toggle Palette' do if no NewGRF is selected?
15:19<@Belugas>mmh... I beg to differ: a Gibson LesPaul
15:20<@Belugas>Now we're talking!
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16:03<Zuu>With my self-compiled builds (using MS VS Express 2005) I get a white line under each bullet (checked menu item) in the configuration menu. This happen on r14250 on clean trunk even if I put my compiled .exe in the same directory as last nightly. Last nightly downloaded pre-compiled however don't suffer from this.
16:03<Wolf01>'night
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16:04*Zuu thinks of the pallette changes in trunk, but my own builds fails even if they are placed in the same directory as pre-compiled binaries of last nightly. | earlier I did not have this problem.
16:10<fjb>Yahoo is soooooo stupid.
16:16<@peter1138>Is it?
16:19<fjb>Yes. They don't accept a valid email address and their captchas are unreadable.
16:31-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-2-131-220.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
16:34<Ammler>fjb: you still looking for a free mail account :-)
16:34<fjb>No, I need access to a mailing list hosted there.
16:35<@peter1138>Bah, where's my solder?
16:36<fjb>At the last place you are looking for it.
16:36<@Belugas>at the store ^_^
16:36*Belugas goes home
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16:39<@peter1138>Hah, no, it was in my toolbox...
16:39-!-Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd
16:39<fjb>And why is my S/370 not booting?
16:46<Celestar>peter1138: we're stable now \o/ (at least without newgrfs)
16:49<@Rubidium>Celestar: not running with many many RVs on many routers apparantly :)
16:49<@Rubidium>and nobody's playing with waypoints
16:50<Celestar>Rubidium: elaborate (=
16:50<@Rubidium>the elusive waypoint desync I hear many people talking about
16:51<@Rubidium>and well... the vehicle hash can cause desyncs with RVs
16:51<Celestar>We don't need waypoints
16:51<@Rubidium>maybe even with vehicles other than RVs
16:51<Celestar>and I dunno, we only have 32 RVs at the moment. We used to have 200 in other games
16:51<Celestar>250 trains currently
16:52<@Rubidium>though I haven't found an elegant and effective fix for it
16:52*Celestar checks the profile
16:52<Celestar>:o
16:53<Celestar>the blitter has lost #1 position
16:53<Celestar>and slipped to second
16:53<@Rubidium>now it's Sleep?
16:53<Celestar>TrainLocoHandler
16:54<Celestar>debug 1 btw :P
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16:55<Celestar>woha
16:55<Celestar>the profile is 2MB alone
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16:56<Celestar>http://www.fvfischer.de/profile.txt
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16:58<Celestar>ok I think I can move on in cargodest
16:58<Celestar>finish up the GUI somehow
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17:07<ecke>do anyone have r13683 win32 version?
17:07<@Rubidium>why would you want that version?
17:08<ecke>because i need create save for wwottdgd/2 version
17:09<@Rubidium>wouldn't it be better to use said patched version?
17:11*Celestar rofls
17:12<Celestar>who know Star Wars in "Schwäbisch"? :P
17:12<@Rubidium>apparantly you do
17:14<Celestar>sorry it's something for the germans among us :P
17:14<ecke>Rubidium ... patched version?
17:14<ecke>patched version of what
17:15<Zuu>ecke: patched for wwottdgd/2 perhaps
17:15<@Rubidium>the openttd wwottdgd/2 wasn't a stock OpenTTD binary
17:15<@Rubidium>someone modified some trunk revision
17:15<ecke>problem of this version is that when i started dedicated server.. i cant create company
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17:16<Zuu>ecke: I think that was intended as there was quite some work with the user/company management done to the server.
17:16<Zuu>To help the admins/moderators to admin the wwottdgd2 server.
17:17<Celestar>GNAH why does my family suck that much :S
17:20*Celestar looks for an approprieate English expressen
17:20<Celestar>expression*
17:21<Celestar>"to tick s.o. off" ..
17:22<ecke>Zuu i know
17:22<ecke>but its "stable"
17:23<ecke>i would like this version... but with possibility of creating companies
17:24<Celestar>good night everyone
17:24<Zuu>It had a weierd failure during wwottdgd2, so I don't know if I could call it stable...
17:25<Ammler>ecke: did you try my proposal?
17:26<ecke>Ammler proposal?
17:27<ecke>yes
17:27<ecke>i write dih, p...., and there ... loading is not functional
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17:30<Ammler>not sure, it might also be there is patch setting for enabling company creation..
17:31<@peter1138>Woot, my creation works :D
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17:33<@peter1138>Rubidium, oh, so I was right with my guess?
17:33<@peter1138>Or is that just a possibility.
17:33<@peter1138>(Vehicle position hash in road vehicle code)
17:37<ecke>Ammler ... so now... i am finding another version with IS ...
17:41<SmatZ>peter1138: yes, different order of vehicles in the hash table
17:41<SmatZ>problem is that enforcing the same order (by v->index) slows the game by ~7% on a test game
17:42<SmatZ>so best vehicle has to be chosen somehow
17:42<SmatZ>there already two patches for that...
17:42<@peter1138>Enforcing order where?
17:43<SmatZ>peter1138: in the hash table
17:43<SmatZ>eg. the v->next_new_hash chain is ordered by v->index
17:44<@peter1138>What about, where the result is used, find the 'best' index if there is more than one vehicle?
17:45<@peter1138>Depends how rare it is.
17:46<@peter1138>4 phono sockets for £1.29 + 1 1/4" stereo jack for £1.49 = new headphone splitter :D
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17:53<@peter1138>Belugas, is newgrf_industries.cpp:268 right?
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18:16<TrueBrain>boe!
18:16<TrueBrain>(was that scary?)
18:16<Prof_Frink>Face of Boe?
18:17<SmatZ>TrueBrain: yes
18:17<TrueBrain>SmatZ: just me being here, or what I said?
18:18<SmatZ>TrueBrain: what you said
18:18<TrueBrain>k
18:18<TrueBrain>just checking ;)
18:18<SmatZ>:-)
18:19<Brianetta>Anybody know if the scenario editor can tell you the TGP seed?
18:19<Brianetta>My map is corrupted, and won't save
18:19<TrueBrain>Brianetta: getseed?
18:19<Brianetta>but I love this land layout
18:19<@peter1138>Won't save? :o
18:19<Brianetta>peter1138: I loaded suburban renewal, I think that buggered it
18:19<Brianetta>Game Load Failed
18:19<Brianetta>File not writeable
18:20<@peter1138>That shouldn't prevent saving.
18:20<Brianetta>Well, somethingbroke
18:20<@peter1138>Not the obvious readonly, diskspace, or quota problems?
18:21<Brianetta>hardly
18:21<Brianetta>Nearly half a terrabyte remaining
18:23<Brianetta>Arse
18:23<Brianetta>Same issue
18:23<Brianetta>empty scenario
18:23<@peter1138>As far as I know, that error can only happen if an fwrite() fails.
18:23<Brianetta>yeah
18:23<Brianetta>brian@jarred ~> touch test
18:23<dih>hello Brianetta
18:23<Brianetta>touch: cannot touch `test': Permission denied
18:23<Brianetta>brian@jarred ~> ls -ld .
18:23<Brianetta>drwxr-xr-x 153 brian users 20480 2008-09-05 23:20 ./
18:23<Brianetta>brian@jarred ~> pwd
18:23<Brianetta>~
18:23<Brianetta>That's weird
18:25<dih>Zuu: the "problem" was with the network code
18:25<dih>the udp part to be precise
18:25<Zuu>dih: Ok
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18:26<Brianetta>brian@jarred ~> touch test
18:26<Brianetta>brian@jarred ~> rm test
18:26<Brianetta>*NOW* it starts working
18:26<Zuu>Just to make sure, I did not meant to offend anyone for their effort with wwottdgd2 by saying it's not stable. Just wanted to point out the issue we had with it.
18:26<Brianetta>Nothing in the logs
18:28<dih>Zuu: i dont think there was any offence in what you said ;-)
18:28<dih>wwottdgd is not meant to be stable over more than 36 hours :-D
18:28<Zuu>:-D
18:28<TrueBrain>and even in that timeframe it is known to bark from time to time :p
18:29<dih>and for what we do with the source, we can very well live with a misshap :-P
18:29<dih>TrueBrain, the 'bark' was in the network code
18:29<dih>which got disabled quickly
18:29<dih>(twas only the udp stuff anyway ;-P)
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18:32<Zuu>Is it acceptable to have a function that is called twice every event-loop per window instance? (this I would use in the sign list search patch to let the window dynamically change wheither it want to steal key-focus or not)
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18:32<Zuu>A variant using a public member variable of Window class is also possible through not as estecial perhaps.
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18:35<Zuu>Given that there is not very many windows instances 2*n extra calls every input loop to a virtual function is not that much?
18:36<@peter1138>Why two?
18:36<Zuu>window.cpp: 1657 and 1672
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18:37<Zuu>I would replace those if-statements with a call to a member of window that then can be overloaded by windows that want to enable stealing of key-focus.
18:37<@peter1138>Hmm, well...
18:37<Zuu>well, not the if-statements but the stuff between the brackets.
18:38<@peter1138>You'd need two loops instead of lots of ifs, so it might *actually* be less work to do.
18:38<@peter1138>Quite why I bolded that I don't know.
18:38<@peter1138>Zuu, seems reasonable to me.
18:39<+glx>Zuu: about the checkmark, it happens only with MSVC (2005 and 2008 have this problem) but I don't know why yet
18:39<Zuu>glx: Ok
18:39<@peter1138>Checkmark?
18:39<Zuu>glx: I can test other revisions if needed. if you havn't got down to which revision that does it.
18:40<Zuu>peter1138: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=39436
18:40<+glx>it's since r14214
18:41<@peter1138>Hmm, how strange.
18:41<+glx>looks like MSVC still use the original sprite while gcc uses the new one
18:41<@peter1138>That should be impossible.
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18:41<TrueBrain>should be maybe, but it is MSVC you are talking about :)
18:42<TrueBrain>http://binaries.openttd.org/custom/cargodest/h62ac8281/ <- for who cares
18:42<Zuu>peter1138: There will then need to be more code in the windows that need to steal key-focus but the gain is that windows can dynamically steal focus only when there is a text-widget visible. (or usefull if someone wants to do propper widget focus)
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19:27<TrueBrain>I wonder in all those configures (I am doing a 'emerge -uavND world') .. how many systems would fail on those include-file checks?
19:28<TrueBrain>checking for read... yes <- is it possible to hav ea system without read?
19:28<TrueBrain>well, I guess ..
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19:39<Brianetta>Hot new scenario, straight from the oven, on Brianetta's Standard!
19:39<Brianetta>http://ppcis.org/standard/
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19:53<@orudge>TrueBrain: well, I seem to recall some old compilers (possibly Borland or Watcom) that didn't have "read". But they wouldn't likely be using an autoconf-based makefile. ;)
19:54<TrueBrain>orudge: I rest my case ;)
19:54<TrueBrain>what annoys me the most about such things
19:54<TrueBrain>is that I have applications where the autoconf takes longer than the real compile
19:55<@orudge>I agree
19:55*orudge is currently upgrading CPAN modules on another server, there are quite a lot to upgrade, and the tests are taking ages
19:55<@orudge>I guess I could run it without tests, but hmm
19:55<TrueBrain>I always run them without tests ..
19:56<ben_goodger>the word "pah!" comes to mind
19:56<TrueBrain>a) the tests randomly fail without real reason (and I don't care)
19:56<TrueBrain>b) it takes for ever for no real gain
19:56<@orudge>indeed
19:56<ben_goodger>I think perl needs as much testing as it can get
19:57*TrueBrain hugs the makedepend of OpenTTD .. so much better than a few .. other compiles I see passing my screen ..
19:57<TrueBrain>I think perl needs the trashcan
19:57<TrueBrain>(sorry, no fan of Perl, not a bit)
19:57<ben_goodger>I suspect that the same perl code may behave differently on different CPUs of the same model, despite the logical impossibility of this
19:58<TrueBrain>I suspect that some Perl code lives
19:58<TrueBrain>it always scares me to dead
19:58<TrueBrain>the last time I wrote a perl script is .... 5 years ago?
19:58<ben_goodger>don't ask me...
19:58<TrueBrain>I was asking myself
19:58<TrueBrain>but I failed
19:58<ben_goodger>quite
19:59<TrueBrain>It returned: INVALID QUERY
19:59<@orudge>well, you have the likes of patchman who can do all sorts of scary witchcraft with perl
19:59<TrueBrain>orudge: that is my main problem with Perl .. you can do a complete application on a single line
19:59<TrueBrain>which NOBODY understands after you wrote it
19:59<TrueBrain>(not even the person who wrote it, in general)
19:59<@orudge>indeed so
19:59<@orudge>although, you can do similar with C ;)
20:00<@orudge>although not quite to the same degree, admittedly
20:01<TrueBrain>I think some subcomponent updated on my system already .. my firefox refuses to display something :p
20:01<@orudge>heh, annoying when that happens
20:01<TrueBrain>Shiretokowhat?
20:03<TrueBrain>http://paste.openttd.org/80263
20:03<TrueBrain>guess what that does
20:03<TrueBrain>(it is a valid (!!) Perl application)
20:03-!-grumbel [~grumbel@i577BB291.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
20:03<@orudge>launches the space shuttle?
20:03<TrueBrain>run it, for fun
20:04<Brianetta>TrueBrain: That's genius at a level I can't even begin to comprehend
20:04<@orudge>I assume it won't eat anything
20:04<TrueBrain>not my work
20:04<TrueBrain>to be clear ;)
20:04<TrueBrain>orudge: it is 100% harmless
20:05<@orudge>heh
20:05<TrueBrain>if you know me a bit, you know where it is from
20:05<@orudge>reminds me of the 12 Days of Christmas thing in C
20:05<TrueBrain>but really, who can tell me how that aplication works?
20:05<TrueBrain>just a tip of how it is done ..
20:05<TrueBrain>I have no clue, not one
20:05<@orudge>I haven't a clue
20:05<Brianetta>TrueBrain: It's ASCII only
20:06<Brianetta>so won't work on an EBCDIC box
20:06<TrueBrain>Brianetta: EBCwhat?
20:06<Brianetta>The bottles contain the relevant ASCII characters, incremented into punctuation
20:06<TrueBrain>there are no fun C variants
20:06-!-welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone
20:07<Brianetta>There's a loop, which decodes the lines and inserts the counte
20:07<Brianetta>rThe bottle shape of the lines id coincidental
20:07<Zuu>Would be cool to make the 99-botteles of bear program whith the code in shape as beer bottles. :p
20:07<TrueBrain>Zuu: I think they did exactly that :)
20:08<Zuu>But shouldn't there be ascii "bottle" etc. in it?
20:08<TrueBrain>Brianetta: it has to contain a loop (which does it 100 times), as requirement of the program :)
20:08<Brianetta>TrueBrain: I think you missed a space at the start when you pasted
20:08<TrueBrain>clearly: no
20:08<TrueBrain>Brianetta: most likely
20:08<TrueBrain>doesn't matter, it was the idea
20:09<TrueBrain>http://99-bottles-of-beer.net
20:09<TrueBrain>if you want the full source
20:09<Brianetta>Zuu: Take "bottle" and increment all the ASCII values by, say, 80
20:09<Zuu>Brianetta: Sure, likely some such tricks.
20:09<Brianetta>I'm not going to rummage in the Perl there to find out the actual value used
20:09<Brianetta>It's probably 100
20:09<TrueBrain>http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-shakespeare-664.html <- my all time favorite :)
20:10<Brianetta>then the loop can re-use the increment
20:10<TrueBrain>a,t="\n%s bottles of beer on the wall","\nTake one down, pass it around"
20:10<TrueBrain>for d in range(99,0,-1):print(a%d*2)[:-12]+t+a%(d-1 or'No')
20:11<TrueBrain>at least with adding enters and stuff, I can decode the above text :p
20:11<TrueBrain>(python btw)
20:12<Brianetta>Now use < for print and {;;}; for a loop
20:12<Brianetta>and use ascii characters for their numeric equivalents (:
20:12<Brianetta>Shape as a bottle
20:12<Brianetta>enjoy chilled
20:16<TrueBrain>lalala
20:16<TrueBrain>I am hungry
20:16<Brianetta>:(){ :|:& }
20:20<Brianetta>ls(){ ls|ls&}
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20:21<rortom>you knew LOLCODE? http://blip.tv/play/Acjxf47dBw ;)
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21:10<Brianetta>Any IE users who can't read my Standard Server's web page
21:11<Brianetta>There's a dodgy hack for you
21:11<Brianetta>http://www.peterprovost.org/blog/post/XHTML-MIME-type-in-Internet-Explorer.aspx
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22:27<@Belugas>[17:53] <@peter1138> Belugas, is newgrf_industries.cpp:268 right? <-- it should be fine indeed, if you are talking about the specs or the asm code
22:27<@Belugas>but it's been a long time ago
22:27<@Belugas>got to check
22:27<@Belugas>why?
22:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14251 /extra/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [OTTD GRF] -Fix (r14213): replace the right glyph and use the right colour indices in glyph sprite
22:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14252 /extra/website/languages/fr_FR.php: [website] -Revert (r14251): always check where you are when you it enter :)
22:39<+glx>+h
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22:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14253 /trunk/bin/data/ (5 files): -Fix (r14214): replace the right glyph and use the right colour indices in glyph sprite
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22:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r14254 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Codechange: Code style and breathing room
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 06 00:00:17 2008