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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-09-08

---Logopened Mon Sep 08 00:00:46 2008
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02:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: matthijs * r14272 /trunk/ (
02:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [Makefile]: Always pass an explicit delimiter to the "cut" command, in
02:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: case there are platforms where tab is not the default.
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02:39<@peter1138>"22:41 Eddi|zuHause> and KUDr definitely appeared as someone who really knows what he was doing..." < Except he said he didn't know C++ ...
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02:45<Pikka>shall I make an 'official' request for the vars I want on the forums?
02:46<@peter1138>Yes please. I think I did it, but I've forgotten where :o
02:47<Pikka>think you added the vars or made a request?
02:48<@peter1138>Think I added them to one of my checkouts, but I can't find it...
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03:06<@peter1138>Okay :)
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03:07<@peter1138>The reason I can't find it is that I hadn't written it...
03:07<Tefad>how convenient of you
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03:15<@peter1138>I know.
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03:19<@Celestar>morning all
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03:28<@peter1138>Hmm, I guess the new compile farm is capable of building releases?
03:31<@Rubidium>only for platforms that can be compiled on it, i.e. macosx, morphos and os/2 can't be made yet
03:32<@peter1138>Obviously :)
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03:34*Celestar wonders whether to do work or play or code :P
03:34<@peter1138>Bah, I could do with a small laptop that actually contains a powerful processor :o
03:34<@Celestar>peter1138: how small?
03:35<@Celestar>(mass) :P
03:35<@Rubidium>you mean a EEE pc (or clone) with a Quad Core Xeon or so?
03:36<@Celestar>DC is perfectly fine for a laptop imho. (=
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03:37<@peter1138>Rubidium, yes, that sounds perfect.
03:37<Pikka>battery life of 5 minutes...
03:38*Rubidium personally doesn't like EEE pcs, they're too small for me to type properly on it.
03:39<@Celestar>peter1138: Lenovo T400, Sony Z series.
03:39<@peter1138>Well... it doesn't need a keyboard either...
03:39*Pikka doesn't mind his eee. it runs OTTD quite well :P
03:39<@peter1138>Just processing power, screen, and a trackpad/ball
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03:39<@peter1138>Maybe this is a bit specialized ;o
03:40<@Celestar>peter1138: trackpad but no keyboard?
03:44<@Celestar>do we have a script to remove unused strings from other languages?
03:44<@Rubidium>not yet
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04:11<@peter1138>Celestar, perl ;)
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04:56<TrueBrain>Celestar: next time please leave a message for what you are poking me ;) Much easier :)
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04:59<@Celestar>TrueBrain: rebuilding cargodest of course (=
05:00<TrueBrain>how should I know ;) But okay, Yexo told me :p
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05:10<Brianetta>Today's Dilbert is rofl funny
05:10<Brianetta>well, lol
05:10<Brianetta>I didn't actually leave the chair
05:12<murray>lmao maybe?
05:14<TrueBrain>Brianetta: it is not that funny, but still very nasty :p
05:17*peter1138 wonders if anything more is planned for 0.6.3.
05:20<Brianetta>TrueBrain: I have a nasty streak
05:20<Brianetta>Just look at the difficulty on my server
05:20<Brianetta>peter1138: The difficulty is due to gradual loading
05:20<Brianetta>The same save, loaded up with gradual loading off is much easier
05:20<Brianetta>Vehicles spend more time moving
05:21<TrueBrain>Brianetta: the one from yesterday on eht other hand, is very amuzing :)
05:23<@peter1138>Brianetta, the problem is that vehicles now load cargo packets that arrive after the vehicle arrived, so vehicles can spend ages waiting if it trickles in slowly.
05:23<@peter1138>This seems to affect vehicles even without gradual loading enabled.
05:24<@peter1138>So a full station will load quickly without gradual loading, but a station that is not full but still sees cargo regularly will cause the train to take a long time to load.
05:25<Brianetta>Gradual loading provides a longer window for the loading of extra packets
05:25<Brianetta>It's definitely easier not to go bankrupt with gradual off
05:26*Brianetta thinks these very hard settings rock
05:27<SmatZ>peter1138: do you plan to change that behaviour?
05:30<roboboy>brian what happens if one does not set a password on your standard server?
05:33<@Celestar>loading a cargo wagon IRL takes some time
05:33<@Rubidium>peter1138: what about some more bugs still open @
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05:46<@peter1138>SmatZ, it would be nice but I don't really know how it works now :o
05:46<@peter1138>Rubidium, good point.
05:46<Brianetta>roboboy: Your company gets autocleaned in a month
05:47<@peter1138>1 month... Ah :o
05:47<@peter1138>See, at 3 months I would've been alright yesterday.
05:47<Brianetta>Yeah, it's like, set a password or never quit.
05:47<Pikka>that's why my companies always disappear :P
05:47<@peter1138>More like, set a password or never desync :o
05:47<Pikka>it makes sense now!
05:47<Brianetta>peter1138: An unintended benefit
05:47<TrueBrain>peter1138: it takes you a month to rejoin?
05:47<@peter1138>TrueBrain, it does when I'd started preparing dinner.
05:48<TrueBrain>peter1138: haha :)
05:48<Brianetta>Getting errors on the console
05:48<@peter1138>Multistop errors?
05:48<Brianetta>about vehicles arriving at the wrong stop
05:49<@peter1138>FS#2268 sounds easy to fix.
05:50<Brianetta>With gradual loading, my train spends half its time stationary at the platform
05:51<Brianetta>It's not to do with new passengers arriving, there are thousands waiting
05:51<@peter1138>It should load / unload regularly.
05:51<Brianetta>It does
05:51<Brianetta>but slowly
05:51<Brianetta>with the setting off, it spends about 2 days on the platform
05:53<Brianetta>Currently it spends 10 an d a half days at platform
05:54<Brianetta>Bah, my train's at its end-of-life, and I can't afford a new one yet
05:54<Brianetta>That's slow progress
05:55<Brianetta>I can *almost* afford a second train now
05:55<Brianetta>That should double my income
05:55<Brianetta>but will double my loan repayments
05:57*Pikka points out that with NARS2, trains cost a lot less to run when they're sitting in the platform than when they're driving, so the effect is somewhat countered. :O
05:57<Brianetta>Interesting that upgrading to a Super Sprinter would just about wipe out my profits
05:58<Pikka>dragon desync'd
05:58<Brianetta>Pikka: Are you planning to revisit UKRS one day, with improvements like that?
05:58<Pikka>possibly! ;)
05:58<Brianetta>Yeah, he was desyncong yesterday
05:58*Brianetta wuvs Pikka's grfs
06:04<@Celestar>I hate work today
06:05<@Celestar>english question: comma before which, who, that (relative pronoun): yes or no?
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06:07<@Celestar>no english here to answer my question?
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06:08<@peter1138>Celestar, if necessary. Not like German...
06:08<Vikthor>Celestar: AFAIK at least at that it depends on the context
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06:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14273 /trunk/ -Change: make aware of release tags and make it output the REV without the branch name so the CF can use that.
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06:09<sulai>I've just read
06:09<sulai>and I would like to help with the german translation
06:09<@Celestar>peter1138: what would constitute wuch a nessecity?
06:09<@peter1138>"korrections", hah
06:10<@peter1138>Celestar, depends on the context, as Vikthor said ;)
06:10<@Celestar>as mixing processes bring the reactants into direct molecular contact, which is required for a chemical reaction to actually take place.
06:10<@peter1138>If a native speaker would pause while saying the phrase out loud, then use a comma. Or something like that.
06:11<@Celestar>I'd say no comma there
06:11<@peter1138>Without is fine there.
06:12<@Celestar>$BOSS wants comma. Methinks $BOSS should concentrate on the semantics, not the syntax
06:12<sulai>peter1138 is editing src\lang\german.txt the only thing I have to do to help translating? What about strgen ?
06:13<@peter1138>Well the prefered way is with a webtranslator account.
06:14<@peter1138>Celestar, what's more important, "... direct molecular contact" or "chemical reaction ..."?
06:14<sulai>peter1138 ?
06:16<@Celestar>peter1138: direct molecular contact
06:16<@peter1138>Then with the comma is fine.
06:17<@peter1138>sulai, yeah.
06:17<@Celestar>can't believe I'm fighting over a comma
06:20<@Celestar>I could spend the time coding :P
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06:22<sulai>does the translation of WT2 directly go into the trunk?
06:23<@Celestar>in regular intervals
06:24*Brianetta reckons the comma is better there than not
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06:24<Brianetta>Many commas in English are a matter of style. Most publishers have a style guide; many are contradictory.
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06:27<Brianetta>Wow, there are web sites where you can send a live lobstergram
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06:33<@Celestar>a life WHAT?
06:33<@Celestar>or live?
06:33<Brianetta>A lobster. To your door. Alive and clicking.
06:34*Brianetta ponders whom to surprise with a lobster
06:34<Penny>How bizarre.
06:34<@Rubidium>Brianetta: Michiel?
06:35<Brianetta>Stopping trains to make level crossings safer is a daft idea.
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06:35<Brianetta>It's not like the train cares a jot whether a road vehicle just exploded.
06:37<@Celestar>Brianetta: but railway crossings have a signal (=
06:37<@peter1138>And a speed limit, usually.
06:37<Brianetta>Celestar: They do. When was the last time an HST stopped for you?
06:38<Brianetta>ECML level crossing speed limits are 100mph
06:38<Brianetta>That's really crawling
06:38<@Rubidium>if HST means Hopelessly Slow Train, then it wasn't very long agao (though it didn't wait for me)
06:38<@peter1138>Brianetta, I think you keep typing trains instead of road vehicles...
06:39<@Celestar>Brianetta: not for me, but I heard that happened. If the signal doesn't indicate the crossing to be clear, the driver will stop the train.
06:39<Brianetta>peter1138: I do?
06:39<@Celestar>Brianetta: yeah. 160km/h in Germany. There were a few till 200km/h, but that idea was dropped in the 90s
06:39<@peter1138>"Trains don't stop for trains in the UK"
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06:40<@peter1138>"don't really care how many trains my snow ploughs^W^Wtrains hit"
06:40*Brianetta does some editing
06:41<Brianetta>Usually road vehicles don't even feature in my OpenTTD universe
06:41<Brianetta>They're just things that occasionally explode
06:41<@Celestar>Brianetta: I consider it a stupid idea as well. Better would be: 1) to limit crossing to 160km/h, 2) to have the RV check that the tile behind the crossing is free.
06:41<Brianetta>Celestar: Presignal the corssing for RVs (:
06:41<@peter1138>Enough space for the length of the RV.
06:42<Brianetta>I think that moreplayers should stop their vehicles on my level crossings
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06:42<Brianetta>Until there's a risk of derailment, I'm fine with that.
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06:51<@Celestar>there are radar-controlled railway crossings
06:51<@Celestar>didn't know that
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06:52*roboboy feels that patch could be abused by players sticking rvs on oponents crossings.
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06:59<sulai><Celestar> Brianetta: I consider it a stupid idea as well. Better would be: 1) to limit crossing to 160km/h, 2) to have the RV check that the tile behind the crossing is free. <-- even then road vehicles will crash if they are broken down, queued or stopped on the level crossing
06:59<@peter1138>Oh, I missed the Tour of Britain today.
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07:00<@peter1138>sulai, why *shouldn't* they?
07:01<Brianetta>Reminds me of that guy who wanted cargo to not lose money if left at a station
07:01<@Celestar>peter1138: because normally the train would stop IRL if you have a broken down vehicle on the track.
07:01<@peter1138>If there's enough time.
07:02<@peter1138>Queue or stopped is just bloody stupid, however.
07:02<Brianetta>The trainwould certainly *try* to stop
07:02<@Celestar>peter1138: normally crossings close minutes before the train arrives.
07:02<Brianetta>They do with PBS
07:02<Brianetta>I'm at least nice enough to use long signal blocks
07:02<@Celestar>so am I
07:02<roboboy> is what id rather see
07:02<@Celestar>at least longer than the longest train
07:02<roboboy>I try to
07:02<@Rubidium>Celestar: yeah, we had that here too. Though they also opened before the train arrived...
07:03<@peter1138>Basically we could improve vehicle behaviour, rather than changing train behaviour.
07:03<Brianetta>I always do with PBS; without,t he only short blocks are at junctions
07:03<@Celestar> <= this is good
07:03<@Celestar>does it work and is it desync safe?
07:04<@peter1138>Hmm, that's an old patch...
07:04<@Celestar>VERY old
07:04<@Celestar>but it shouldn't be too difficult, right?
07:04<@peter1138>Well, it will need to handle articulated RVs too, now.
07:04<@Celestar>peter1138: porting the vehicle detail window cleanup to trunk means rewriting it :(
07:05<@peter1138>Celestar, that's why you should've done it against trunk first ;)
07:05<roboboy>I know its old but it does the job
07:05<@Celestar>peter1138: yeah, but (=
07:05<@Celestar>peter1138: I kinda forgot (=
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07:06<@Celestar>peter1138: I'll just keep the cleanup until cargodest is trunkified
07:06<Brianetta>Maglev versus Model T
07:06<Brianetta>prace bets now
07:06<@Celestar>maglev level crossing should be forbidden :P
07:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14274 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Fix (r10237): nonexistant order could be selected in the timetable window (causing SIGFPE)
07:07<@Celestar>well, theoretically they are possible ...
07:07<@Rubidium>I reckon the bottom of the maglev train will be completely wracked by the steel Model T
07:07<@Celestar>Rubidium: don't underestimate the mass of those magnets (=
07:08<@Celestar>Maglevs are much lighter than normal trains, but they're still very heavy vehicles (weight per seat)
07:08<Brianetta>Rubidium: Transrapid hugs the track; it's not going to bounce over. It'll be a fight to the death.
07:09<@Celestar>when last a Transrapid crashed, it didn't look healthy
07:09<@Rubidium>Celestar: yeah, but there's tricky control mechanisms and such, and even when it "hugs" the track, all kinds of debri will go under the train
07:10<sulai><peter1138> sulai, why *shouldn't* they? <-- because i think it's better game play. vehicles are weak enough in the game. so why let them crash ;)
07:11<@Celestar>RVs are not weak
07:11<@Celestar>RVs just have an unnatually long loading time.
07:11<@Celestar>a bus typically loads/unloads faster than a normal train.
07:11<@Celestar>we should reflect that in-game
07:11<@Celestar>er .. wrong window :P
07:11<sulai>I like the patch of gigajum too... waiting in front of the level crossing if it can't get through
07:12<@Celestar>peter1138: <= that's the latest version btw if you care (=
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07:15<@peter1138>Do you want me to port it then?
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07:17<@peter1138>sulai: I don't think removing crashs results in "better game play"
07:17<@Celestar>peter1138: not really. just to have a look
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07:18<@peter1138>Do we need the sub-window declarations in the headers?
07:18<sulai>peter1138 for road vehicle users, it does
07:18<@peter1138>I do use road vehicles.
07:18<@peter1138>I build bridges over track.
07:19<sulai>you can do that too with the patch enabled
07:19<sulai>if you don't want your trains stopped by vehicles, just build a bridge
07:19<@peter1138>With your patch, I can make trains useless.
07:20<sulai>you can make trains useless even without my patch ;P
07:20<@peter1138>Plonk a crossing down and stop a bus on it...
07:20<sulai>let your train go over the red signal and crash the stopped bus...
07:21<@peter1138>Well anyway.
07:21<@peter1138>Your patch is bloody silly, and won't appear in trunk, so have fun :)
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07:22<sulai>It's not my first priority to see the patch in the trunk
07:22<sulai>It's more an experiment
07:22<sulai>to see how it works
07:22<Noldo>virtual model railroad crowd might like it
07:22<sulai>I think it works quite good with PBS
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07:23<@peter1138>Noldo, no, they tend to favour the R-word.
07:23<sulai>peter1138: maybe you should give the patch a try and just try a game with it enabled?
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07:25<sulai>all transportation types should be balanced. And I think preventing road vehicles to crash all the times is a step in the right direction
07:25<Noldo>you can do that with bridges
07:26<Noldo>balacing is best done with costs
07:26<eekee>bridges in cities suck
07:26<Brianetta>The London Stock Exchange has suspended trading
07:26<eekee>and having vehicles wait on level crossings looks incredibly stupid
07:26<eekee>whoa really?
07:27<@peter1138>Oh, technical glitch :)
07:27<sulai>Noldo: yes you can, even with the patch enabled... it needs more space to build a bridge but you can do more traffic load
07:27<eekee>oh a technical glitch
07:28<@peter1138>Gigajum's solution is what I want to see done.
07:28<Brianetta>Technical glitch is probably a euphemism for market crash
07:28<sulai>peter1138 I agree
07:28<eekee>I hope not, the british economy has got scarily bad in just a few weeks
07:28<Brianetta>Scarily bad, heh
07:29<sulai>Gigajum's solution and PBS should prevent 90% of all crashes
07:29<Brianetta>The economy is as good as people's confidence in it
07:29<sulai>10% are broken vehicles on the level crossing... shit happens ^^
07:29<Brianetta>Less than that
07:30<Brianetta>Mor vehicles lose fights with maglevs
07:30<sulai>Brianetta: yes maybe even less
07:30<Brianetta>They cross when it's safe, then a Satrun V rocket on magnets comes out of nowhere and passes right through them
07:31<@peter1138>See, vehicles should automatically reserve x-tiles ahead of them... but then that messes up pathfinder operation...
07:32<sulai>Brianetta thats right... if you put PBS signals in a good distance, the level crossing gets barred early enough. But it needs the care of the track builder
07:32<eekee>lol "saturn 5 on magnets", I like
07:32<Brianetta>So does that patch that stops trains
07:32<sulai>Brianetta yes
07:33<Brianetta>Now,as a rail operator, I do care enough to do that
07:33<Brianetta>because trains aren't stopped
07:34<welshdragon>here's a question for you devs: can i have two openttd programs, one that runs nightlies,a nd the other that runs stables?
07:34<sulai>hm I think Gigajum's solution is better than stopping trains
07:34<@peter1138>Yes. Just put them in different directories.
07:34<welshdragon>peter1138, ok cool
07:35<sulai>Gigajum's solution should make level crossings really safe (except those busses broken on level crossings)
07:35<@peter1138>Gigajum's solutions should work well except for adjacent crossings.
07:35<Noldo>what is this gigajum
07:35<Noldo>'s solution?
07:36<Brianetta>Adjacent crossings should work too
07:36<sulai>but Gigajum's solution does have disadvantages: a) adjacent crossings: RV are too slow and get caught by trains b) maglevs still kill RV
07:37*peter1138 suspects, if the railtype stuff hits trunk, that someone will make a NewGRF that prevents monorail and maglev level crossings...
07:37<Brianetta>sulai: Why do you believe adjacent crossings to remain a problem with that solution?
07:38<Yexo>peter1138: how much work has to be done before the railtype stuff can hit trunk?
07:38<eekee>monorails should be overhead anyway
07:38<Brianetta>eekee: Not necessarily
07:38<eekee>o ok
07:38<@peter1138>Level crossings need to be finished, and callbacks added.
07:39<@peter1138>Oh, and tunnel entrances need sorting out.
07:39<sulai>Brianetta: if there are say 2 crossings next to each other... RV will wait until both are free and the RV can reach the other side. while RV is traveling through, another train might come over the 2nd level crossing and catch the bus
07:39<Brianetta>Not elevated
07:39<@peter1138>It is, by about 1 foot ;)
07:39<Brianetta>sulai: RV won't wait ntil both are free
07:39<sulai>Brianetta a RV must get through all adjacent crossings which needs more time
07:40<Brianetta>If one closes, it'll stop
07:40<welshdragon>what people should do is have a pbs signal in front of a crossing (least 6 tiles) like in real lifw
07:40<sulai><Brianetta> If one closes, it'll stop <-- this means RV stops on the first level crossing
07:40<sulai>...if the second one closes
07:41<Brianetta>I mean, while it's crossing
07:41<Brianetta>if one of the level crossings closes, it will stop for it
07:41<sulai>Brianetta in front of all crossings?
07:41<Brianetta>Any that close
07:41<Brianetta>AFTER having passed the first
07:42<sulai>Brianetta: yes but if a RV has to stop at the second level crossing of 2 adjacent crossings, then it has to stop on the first level crossing... and can be caught there
07:42<welshdragon>the adjacent problem could be solved by pbs again, if the path is clear, then the train can pass, if there is an obstruction to the next pbs signal, then the train must stop
07:43<roboboy>rvs are safe inbetween two crossings
07:43<Brianetta>there's a spot between all crossing which is safe to wait for shorter vehicles
07:43<Noldo>roboboy: not longones
07:43<sulai>welshdragon: this is what my patch does... but most people dont like trains to stop for vehicles
07:43<roboboy>which I dont use
07:43<roboboy>long vehicles
07:43<welshdragon>it's realistic
07:43<Brianetta>sulai: Trains shouldn't be able to stop on a dime like that
07:44<Brianetta>Click stop on a heavy train; that's how they are supposed to stop
07:44<Brianetta>Red signals give trains magic brakes, unfortunately
07:44<Brianetta>as does the end of the track
07:44<sulai>Brianetta whats the point?
07:45<@Celestar>Brianetta: I think that clicking on stop still takes too little distance :P
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07:46<Brianetta>Celestar: I do too, tbh
07:46<sulai>I think it's okay how trains stop at signals... its a game after all.
07:46<welshdragon>ok, why not use the principlr of real life
07:46<Brianetta>A game? You sound like Belugas
07:46<@Celestar>sulai: I don't agree (=
07:46<eekee>stopping at stations is already too realistic for fun lol
07:46<@Celestar>eekee: why?
07:47<sulai>hehe yes too much realism in a game is no good for fun
07:47<eekee>watching a maglev shoot towards a station and crawl into it...
07:47<Brianetta>sulai: In which case, let the RVs explode.
07:47<sulai>thats why: trains should stop for road vehicles!!
07:47<@Celestar>so "fun" means that you have trains driving bumper-to-bumper?
07:48<eekee>I didn't say that
07:48<Brianetta>bumper to bumper is how you can tell the realism fans from the others
07:48<sulai>Brianetta: thats one of the main reasons, RV explode right now in the game... the goal is to prevent such things
07:48<Brianetta>sulai: But preventing it removes fun
07:48<@Celestar>I think the game would be much more fun if you need to put thought into how to optimize junctions/stations for speed
07:48<welshdragon>IRL, train pathing uses green > double yellow > single yellow > red, in fact it uses more then that, but you get the idea
07:48<sulai>because there are less crashes?
07:49<eekee>oh for crying out loud, bumper to bumper is not a train thing, it wouldn't be a train GAME even if they were bumper to bumper
07:49<Brianetta>it's not like my trains get hurt
07:49<Brianetta>not a train thing. I keep forgetting the exploding boxes are a transport idea...
07:50<@Celestar>what are we fighting about in the first place anyway?!
07:50<eekee>I'm not sure actually ^^' I did get a bit upset when you overgeneralised my idea when I was trying not to overgeneralise yours, Celestar
07:50<sulai>Celestar: I fight for safer road vehicles ;)
07:51<@Celestar>so you want trains to move either at max speed or stop. I don't. I'd prefer having the accelerate and decelerate gradually. Possibly more gradually than they do now.
07:51<Brianetta>Road vehicles can be prefectly safe. Just keep them off the tracks.
07:51<Penny>Celestar: I agree with that.
07:51<sulai>Brianetta what if a track builder builds tracks over your roads silently ;P
07:52<Brianetta>On my server, road crossings give RVs an insanely high pathfinding penalty. If there's another way, they'll take it.
07:52<eekee>Oh what I was going to say was I'd like trains to be more gradual at signals (less sudden) and less gradual at stations
07:52<@Celestar>hence we need a check that the RV only enters the crossing if it can clear on the oder end.
07:52<@Celestar>eekee: I'd think trains so slow down at signals like they do at stations.
07:53<@Celestar>eekee: and clearly, accelerate more slowly than they slow down of course.
07:53<sulai>Brianetta actually this is done by my patch: it reserves the track tile for the RV and the train is free to find another way
07:53<Brianetta>Trains should be able to overrun signals and ends of line, like in Locomotion
07:53<Brianetta>sulai: The train's on rails. Level crossings are usually in cities, which are a spider-web of roads.
07:53<eekee>Celestar: yeah, basically
07:54<Brianetta>My track isn't going to be reserved by any road vehicle.
07:54<sulai><Celestar> hence we need a check that the RV only enters the crossing if it can clear on the oder end. <-- right, but it's not that easy for adjacent crossings or maglev crossings
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07:55<Brianetta>It would be funny if, instead of making a signal-style stop, it sent a stop command to an oncoming train. Then we'd see if it could slow down in time...
07:55<eekee>haha yes
07:56<eekee>oh main that would make major headaches for track planning. You'd also have to be able to assign speed limits to sections of track so trains had a chance of stopping
07:56<sulai>Brianetta in the moment the train driver sees the bus plus some reaction time ;)
07:56<eekee>then realism would call for blind corners...
07:56<Brianetta>It's going to stop half a train-length *through* the bus
07:57<sulai>Brianetta depends how fast and heavy the train is and when the train driver starts to stop
07:57<Brianetta>Blind corners is fine by me. I don't mind placing distant signals.
07:57<sulai>Celestar: speed limit and RV waiting for free tiles at the end of (adjacent) level crossings should do...
07:58<@Celestar>sulai: that should be doable without too much hassle methinks
07:58<Noldo>why speed limits?
07:58<sulai>Celestar: but speed limit must be lower if there are more adjacent level crossings to give the RV time to get over there
07:58<@Celestar>Noldo: speed limits for trains on level crossing, of course
07:59<Brianetta>Perhaps a minimum speed for RVs, too
07:59<Brianetta>No less than 50kmh, etc
07:59<sulai>Brianetta there are RV that have max speed of 48kmh...
08:00<eekee>the most useful busses in grvts have that top speed
08:00<@Celestar>during the time you have a RV of max speed of 48km/h, you have slow trains as well. Where's the point?
08:00<Noldo>sulai: you can make an rv with max speed much lower
08:00<@Rubidium>Celestar: between the well and the Where
08:01<@Celestar>we should consider reducing aircraft crashes.
08:01<@Celestar>on a large game with many planes, you have a crash a year
08:01<@Celestar>which sounds kind of stupid
08:02<@Rubidium>Celestar: it balances with the complexity of building rail/road/ship routes
08:02<sulai>Brianetta: ever tried level crossings in locomotion ;)
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08:03<MrMist>I've found a bug in the sourcecode
08:03<MrMist>AND I'm able to fix it
08:03<MrMist>How do I approach it?
08:03<MrMist>I've actually fixed it
08:03<Noldo>good for you, now go to
08:04<MrMist>Noldo: But it's not a BUG per se. It's a calculation "error" in how income is calculated for cargo
08:05<@Celestar>Rubidium: yes, but planes have no usable capacity until the Metro airport comes around
08:05<Noldo>MrMist: is it a manhattan distance this?
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08:05<MrMist>Noldo: And I've already fixed it..
08:05<MrMist>Noldo: I can show you a graph on how income value is currently being calculated
08:05<MrMist>hold on...
08:05<@Celestar>MrMist: open a bug report and attach the fix to it (=
08:06<SmatZ>it's not a bug, it's a feature
08:06<SmatZ>the further you take cargo, the more money you earn! a bug! :-)
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08:11<@peter1138>That doesn't really explain the problem.
08:11<MrMist>Noldo: sshot_bad is the original graph, ss_fixed is the fixed
08:12<@peter1138>They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Sometimes that's bollocks :)
08:13<eekee>why is it https?
08:13<MrMist>eekee: because I like encryption
08:13<MrMist>It's self-signed
08:14<MrMist>peter1138: It's the income graph as presented within openttd as well, however this one is based on the math in the source code
08:14<eekee>a self-signed certificate is of rather limited value
08:14<MrMist>peter1138: It shows how income decrease as you spend longer time
08:14<Brianetta>eekee: Not to the person who made it
08:14<eekee>haha true
08:15<@peter1138>MrMist, your screenshots don't say how it was fixed...
08:15<MrMist>I know
08:15<Noldo>MrMist: add the diff to
08:15<MrMist>I'll submit a bug report
08:15<eekee>oh I see the pointy glitch in the graph of current cargo payment
08:15<MrMist>eekee: yep
08:16<MrMist>eekee: And it's kinda strange it's made that way. Thing is, the fixed one WILL affect gameplay
08:16<MrMist>But it seems strange that suddenly the income increase some again during those "glitches".
08:16<MrMist>So... if you're REALLY lucky.....
08:16<eekee>will make payment a bit easier to predict for certain cases. That's cool with me
08:18<MrMist>So... I'll submit this as a "patch" then?
08:20<MrMist>Anyone ?
08:20<MrMist>this isn't really a bug, is it ?
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08:21<planetmaker>however you want to call it, bug, feature or glitch.
08:22<SmatZ>it depends, but I would select Bug :)
08:23<planetmaker>bugs bugger SmatZy PatchY ;)
08:23*planetmaker goes back to work
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08:29<@Rubidium>MrMist: the current payment code looks fine to me
08:29<@Rubidium>even when I plot a graph of it
08:33<eekee>the spikes could be an artifact of the process used to test. mathematicians have to be on guard against those when they use computers
08:34<SmatZ>I didn't see any spikes
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08:37<sulai>I just wanted to register to WT2 but mail delivery failed to
08:41<@Rubidium>that's most likely an error somewhere at your end
08:41<MrMist>Rubidium: I've got a masters in math
08:42<sulai>Rubidium I'll try with another email account
08:42<sulai>Rubidium but the emailadress is correct?
08:42<SmatZ>MrMist: I think bacis school would be enough to find this kind of problem :)
08:42<MrMist>Rubidium: What material type do you test it on?
08:42<@Rubidium>sulai: yes
08:43<SmatZ>MrMist: have you opened the bug report yet?
08:43<@Rubidium>MrMist: they call it a spreadsheet
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08:44<MrMist>Rubidium: How many samples do You take? You'll have to sample every day
08:50<MrMist>Noldo: eekee: See the URL?
08:51<@Rubidium>MrMist: I did take a same for every "day"
08:52<MrMist>for which material type?
08:52<MrMist>and using which formulae?
08:52<MrMist>cargo type..
08:52<@Rubidium>the one in the code and "random" cargo type
08:53<@Rubidium>i.e. with custom days1 and days2
08:53<MrMist>Heh... I'm quite sure I'm right on this.
08:54<@peter1138>"material type" ?
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08:54<MrMist>I can prove mathematically that the calculations are NOT continous between them
08:57<MrMist>It's just a matter of seing if f1(28) = f2(28) for any cargo type
08:57<@Rubidium>you code does nothing more than making the line steeper
08:57<MrMist>Rubidium: hehe... yes, it does
08:57<MrMist>Rubidium: Do you see the graphs?
08:57<MrMist>I've posted the bug
08:57<MrMist>I wouldn't go to all this trouble if it was right in the code
08:57<MrMist>believe me
08:57<@Rubidium>yeah, I've seen the graphs
08:58<@Rubidium>but my own graph shows something completely different
08:58<MrMist>Then you've done something wrong
08:58<MrMist>You want proof ?
08:58<MrMist>I COULD if you really want it
09:00<MrMist>Also, IN the source code, it saus that the slope should be -2
09:00<MrMist>my function is that
09:00<MrMist>the original actually isn't
09:02<SmatZ> wouldn't this be more readable?
09:02<SmatZ>hmm ok add 2* to days_over2...
09:03<MrMist>SmatZ: Sorry... not really
09:03<MrMist>days_over_days2 = transit_days - days2 in that case
09:08<MrMist>Hello Belugas
09:09<SmatZ>MrMist: yeah...
09:10<SmatZ>MrMist: no
09:11<MrMist>SmatZ: what ?
09:11<SmatZ>days2 is time from days1
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09:14<MrMist>Huh? Not according to the spec?
09:14<SmatZ> here are the specs :)
09:16<@peter1138>I don't see spikes...
09:17<MrMist>SmatZ: Where are the days1 and days2 values defined ?
09:18<@peter1138>In table/cargo_const.h
09:18<@peter1138>Oh, that's literal.
09:21<MrMist>SmatZ: I still can't find the definition that days2 = days from days1
09:21<SmatZ> * if t<=T1 then timefactor=255
09:21<SmatZ> * else if t<=(T1+T2) then timefactor=255-(t-T1)
09:21<SmatZ> * else timefactor=255-(t-T1)-(t-T1-T2)
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09:22<@Rubidium>now define days_over_days1 = t - T1 and replace that in the above
09:22<@Rubidium>if dod <= 0 then timefactor=255
09:23<@Rubidium>if dod <= T2 then timefactor=255-dod
09:23<@Rubidium>else timefactor=255-dod-(dod-T2) = 255-2*dod+T2
09:24<@Rubidium>so our implementation is an exact implementation of the specifications (as just mathematically proven)
09:24<@peter1138>And there are no spikes ;)
09:24<@Rubidium>now imagine T1=4 and T2=6
09:25<@Rubidium>for t=10 this yields 249, for t=11 it is 247 and for t=12 it is 245
09:25<@Rubidium>when I use MrMist's algorithm the values are:
09:25<@Rubidium>for t=10 this yields 249, for t=11 it is 250 and for t=12 it is 247
09:26<MrMist>i didn't know that days2 was relative to days1. I thought they were absolute
09:26<@Rubidium>so your model was incorrect
09:26<MrMist>I based them on wron presumptions
09:26<@peter1138>So we don't need to change anything :D
09:26<@Rubidium>and thus any results gathered from said model
09:26<MrMist>I'm recalculating here
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09:35<MrMist>Ok, ok.. my bad. You're right. I didn't know days2 was relative to days1
09:36<SmatZ>MrMist: thanks for your effort anyway :)
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09:37<@peter1138>Yeah, now can we have our time back? ;)
09:39<MrMist>SmatZ: heh... sorry for that one. I really thought I had something here
09:39<SmatZ>no problem, people tend to be ecstatic when they think they have found a bug ;)
09:40<SmatZ>"excited" is maybe better word
09:41<MrMist>SmatZ: Thanks ;) At least I tried... I was just trying to get my head around income
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09:42<MrMist>If I only knew that days2 was relative, this wouldn't have happened at all
09:42<MrMist>now to creating some new graphs :D
09:42<MrMist>Any overview of top speeds for etc. trains?
09:43<MrMist>I'd like to create a graph which outlines the profitability when extending a route, compared to the speed one could expect from a train etc
09:43<MrMist>hmm... guess I could use percentages
09:44<SmatZ> but this is only the default GRF set
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09:46<@Belugas>SmatZ, excited is not hard enough as an emotion ;)
09:49<@Belugas>MrMist, the learning curve may be steep, but when you really start to understand the system, you'll find that it has been ironed out by a couple of years of maintenatnce
09:50<@Belugas>so, when you think yuio have found a bug, think twice about it and check the whole code around the said functionnality ;)
09:50<MrMist>Belugas: I was trying to
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09:52<@Belugas>i know :) and because of this, you're already a step ahead of most so-called patchers ;)
09:52<eekee>finding problems in a bug report is a little like finding bugs in the first place. sometimes it takes another pair of eyes
09:53<MrMist>eekee: thanks :)
09:53<eekee>yw ^^;
09:54<MrMist>I still can't get my head around the "days of transit" in the formula though... seems waaay to steep
09:55<eekee>I think if it wasn't so steep it wouldn't make much difference to most games?
09:56<eekee>although I guess some map/grf combinations may push the envelope
09:56<MrMist>But it doesn't look like the one in the game !?
09:58<MrMist>seems like the values in my graph ends up at t = 125 or something, where the graph in the game ends up at t = 200
09:59<MrMist>Any ideas?
09:59*eekee has to head out
09:59<MrMist>eekee: Thanks for the help then :)
10:00<eekee>no probs ^^'
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10:12<MrMist>i gotta head out
10:12<MrMist>thanks everyone :)
10:12<MrMist>bye then
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10:52<Brianetta>Took me form 1991 to 2020 to pay off my initial loan
10:52<Brianetta>30 years isn't so bad
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10:57<penfold>Do you think you've been playing the same game too long when your profit is over £1 trillion? :P
10:58<@Belugas>no, it could mean you're really performant or that you have cheated ;)
10:58<Ammler>the company value or the income counts
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10:59<Ammler>I could also just let a game run...
10:59<penfold>I'm scared of an integer overflow :)
10:59<planetmaker>or your inflation is way off scale when the year is too advanced
10:59<davis->like with the rv coop game :s
10:59<penfold>well the year is like 2688 or somethin
10:59<planetmaker>lol. With inflation?
11:00<davis->that would explain the trillion
11:00<penfold>can't remember the inflation setting.
11:00<planetmaker>well. With inflation 1 trillion in 2688 is not too difficult, I guess
11:01<Ammler>"your profit is over £1 trillion?" <-- hmm, is that income?
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11:02<penfold>bank balance, not company value
11:02<penfold>oh well, provides lots of bribery money.
11:03<SmatZ>inflation won't last longer than 130 (?) years
11:03<SmatZ>in 0.6 and trunk, that is..
11:03<SmatZ>and you don't have to be scared about overflow
11:04<SmatZ>it should be overflow safe
11:04<SmatZ>just you will stop at 2^63-1
11:04<SmatZ>@calc 2 ^ 63 - 1
11:04<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
11:04<SmatZ>@calc 2 ** 63 - 1
11:04<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 9223372036854775808
11:04<SmatZ>@calc (2 ** 63) - 1
11:04<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 9223372036854775808
11:05<SmatZ>hmm, how can it end in 8
11:07<penfold>SmatZ: was just kidding about the overflow :)
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11:20<Muppis>Hey :)
11:21<Muppis>Hm, i'm still kinda new to OTTD, and i've been reading the wikipost about signals, but i still cant get them to work O.o
11:21<Muppis>You know of any like FAQ or smth?
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11:34<Progman>which signals?
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11:35<Progman>the basic one? one-way signals? presignals? "advanced" signals (aka YAPP-signal)?
11:36<Muppis>Ehm, haha
11:36<Muppis>There is the one (Click and place) and it's the one ctrl+click
11:36<Muppis>It's the ctrl click i dont get :p
11:36<Progman>you mean the semaphores?
11:37<Muppis>Yeah, there is like small signs on them
11:37<Progman> - this one?
11:37<Muppis>That's the one
11:38<Progman>there is no difference between this semaphores and "traffic like" signals
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11:38<Kloopy>(apart from how they look, of course)
11:38<Progman>only the difference you see
11:38<Muppis>Aha, but when you can get like small signs under them, like "Exit-way" etc
11:38<Progman>so like if you playing eyecandy-like you maybe want old-school looking semaphores
11:38<Progman>that can be on both types
11:39<Muppis>"Entry Pre-signals" according to the wiki
11:39<Muppis>exit and combo aswell
11:39<Progman>and the image which is shown
11:39<Progman>build the signal first
11:40<Progman>then ctrl-click on it
11:40<FauxFaux>Turn on the signal gui!
11:40<Progman>to circle throw normal->entry->exit->both->(advance->)normal
11:41<Muppis>So, i place the entry signal where i want the train to enter (or well, a free spot in the station) and exit for them to exit right
11:41<Progman>these presignal entry-exit stuff is for some further signal logic
11:42<Progman>it doesn't mean its for an entry and exit of a station
11:42<Muppis>aha :o
11:43<Progman>presignal is like blocking the train further away from passing
11:43<Progman>as seen here:
11:44<Muppis>ah, so when the left train leaves, the lights will turn green for the train coming in to the station?
11:44<Progman>so the train dont wait inside the junction and blocking it, and maybe facing the wrong line which isn't free
11:44<Progman>as the block after the white-exit-signal gets free, yes
11:45<Muppis>Signals is tricky tbh :p
11:45<Progman>you really didn't know whats possible with these signals ;)
11:45-!-LA [] has joined #openttd
11:46<Muppis>Still having some problems directing my trains when they're running on the same track, but i'll get it i guess :p
11:46<eekee>I got the hang of pre-signals nicely. Now I'm trying to get the hang of advanced; I haven't quite got the hang of all aspects of them
11:46*LA is looking for some screw-up saves he could fix
11:46<eekee>LA: screwed-up layout or bugged saves?
11:46<eekee>oh ok
11:47<eekee>the last few saves of one of my favourites is bugged
11:47<LA>cos I cba to start a new game :P
11:47<eekee>I'd like to see what someone else makes of one of my games. It works well, but every time I want to add a new bit of track it's a nightmare
11:48<LA>dman it.
11:48-!-welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone
11:48<LA>eekee, upload it somewhere
11:48<LA>I'll fix the most ugly junctions
11:49<FauxFaux>LA: =p
11:49<FauxFaux>(not mine)
11:50<LA>fauxfaux: quite *inefficient*
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11:50<FauxFaux>It's actually not, once you've added signals (and the thee other quaters)
11:50<LA>no, its VERY inefficient
11:51<LA>tunnels are too long way without signals
11:52<LA>and sharp corners also
11:53<FauxFaux>There're very few sharp corners, and the long tunnels are basically braking distance.
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11:53<eekee>damn passwords
11:55<LA>fauyxfaux, gimme a second
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12:00<LA>FauxFaux: Basically, this is what I think is an efficent station.. It should have the same kind of exit though too, but I couldn't be arsed to do it just ofr example
12:01<LA>two in two out
12:02<eekee>LA: I'd say there's a fair chance of trains blocking multiple platforms in that
12:02<LA>there isn't such a chance
12:02<LA>and btw
12:03<LA>I did it with 0.6.2, so no pbs possible
12:04<eekee>I see
12:04<eekee>my save is r14195 btw
12:05<eekee>I can't work out if the 16x16 junction is any good or not :)
12:05<LA>I just downloaded the nightly
12:05<LA>I don't have all your grfs though :/
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12:06<LA>any idea why you have breakdowns on?
12:06-!-Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
12:06<eekee>I always have them on. I'm always looking for an extra challenge of one sort or another
12:06<fjb>Because it gets boring with breakdowns off. :-)
12:07<eekee>exactly :D
12:08<LA>wat central hub were you talking about=
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12:10<eekee>me? There's a very cluttered lot near Sedinghead Cross Mines and west of there, and the maglev bit by Fruway-on-sea Heights doesn't work that well
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12:13<LA>we.. it indeed clutters when a train breaks down there ;)
12:13<LA>lo Celestar
12:13<eekee>yes ^^;
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12:19<eekee>There's actually a few trains missing. I converted from default trains to ukrs and had to scrap all my old trains & make new ones
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12:47<Kalten_>Is there a way to get a train to only unload 50% cargo?
12:48<@Celestar>not at the moment. why would you do this?
12:48<Kalten_>I wanted to drop vehicles on a number of mines with only 1 train
12:48<@Celestar>then wait for cargodest (=
12:49<Kalten_>Ah, so it might be possible in the future?
12:49<@Celestar>in the future, the cargo will tell you where it wants to go (=
12:51-!-Kalten_ is now known as Kalten
12:54-!-fjb [] has quit []
12:59<@Celestar>hm ... does anyone have some large non-cargodest savegame around?
13:00-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-173-236.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
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13:01<Ammler>Celestar: our archive
13:01<Ammler>what are you looking for?
13:01<@Celestar>good point
13:02<@Celestar>wondering whether the game works without cargodest
13:02<@Celestar>it asserts while switching :P
13:04<@Celestar>that works
13:04<@Celestar>switching fails
13:06-!-tokai [] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!]
13:06*Celestar scratches his head
13:09<@Celestar>Houston ...
13:14<@peter1138>Right, what am I fixing tonight?
13:14<@peter1138>Oh... my light apparently. The bulb just blew :o
13:15<@Celestar>peter1138: you help me? (=
13:15<@Celestar>peter1138: with finishing up cargodest
13:17<@Celestar>peter1138: not much left to do :P
13:18-!-Jerimiah40 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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13:22*Celestar thinks peter1138 ran away because of work :P
13:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r14275 /trunk/src/lang/ (37 files in 2 dirs): -Change: Rename 'Configure patches' to 'Advanced settings'.
13:24<@Belugas>home work
13:24<@peter1138>That's fightin' talk.
13:26<@Celestar>peter1138: will you ? :P
13:26<dih>Celestar, will he talk or fight?
13:26<@Celestar>comon I'm tired as hell and I don't manage to keep the screen in focus :P
13:27<@peter1138>I might do these level crossings.
13:27<dih>i need a good groupware... :-S
13:27<@Celestar>dih: kolab
13:27<el_En>i'm detecting a great disturbance in the force
13:27<dih>Celestar, a better groupware
13:27<dih>or somewhat different
13:27<dih>opengroupware is good, but deving kinda stalled
13:27<@Belugas>i need a better lonelyware!
13:27<@Celestar>dih: what's wrong with kolab?
13:27<dih>slowly picking up again
13:28<dih>i want something web-based
13:28<@Celestar>afaik kolab can do that
13:29<dih>something that does _not_ require to run it's own mail server
13:29<dih>and the webinterface fetches from another imap server
13:29<dih>thanks Belugas you are a real help
13:29<@Belugas>a pleasure!
13:29<@Celestar>dih: squirrelmail?
13:29-!-yorick [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:30<@Celestar>dih: afaik it has one
13:30<@Celestar>it's not very advanced.
13:30<dih>squirrelmail only used to have the webmail stuff
13:30<dih>yeah then it's no real use :-P
13:30-!-Zahl_ [] has joined #openttd
13:30<dih>horde groupware is buggy
13:30-!-yorick [] has joined #openttd
13:30<dih>simple groupware is nasty
13:31<dih>like i said - opengroupware was awsome
13:31<@peter1138>Why do we have 'Advanced Settings' when there is no 'Settings'?
13:31<dih>just stalled :-(
13:31<@Celestar>peter1138: need advice.
13:31<@Celestar>peter1138: (and help coding) :P
13:32<dih>Celestar, i prefere as a mail client :-D
13:32<@Celestar>I hate all that web-based stuff, do I can't help you
13:32<@Celestar>dih: stupid idea. Google calendar?
13:32<el_En>peter1138: good question, but the most important thing is that it's not patch-something anymore.
13:32<dih>Google has too much details as it is, not gonna feed it my cal also
13:32<@Celestar>point taken (=
13:32<dih>anyway - i gotta run
13:32<@Celestar>have fun dih
13:32<dih>i'll be back in a bit
13:33<dih>band practice, and i have the snuffles
13:33<dih>means i cannot really play the sax!
13:34-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
13:36<frosch123>Poll: a) "Add 'non-stop' orders by default" b) "Create 'non-stop' orders by default" c) "Make orders 'non-stop' by default" d) ...
13:36<frosch123>as replacement for "TTDP compatible nonstop handling"
13:37<@Celestar>frosch123: a)
13:37<@Celestar>New orders are nonstop by default?
13:37<@Celestar>how about that?
13:37<@Celestar>object - property
13:37-!-welshdra-gone is now known as welshdragon
13:37<frosch123>d) "New orders are 'non-stop' by default"
13:37<el_En>does it mean that?
13:37<@Celestar>easied to understand
13:37-!-Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:37-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
13:37*Belugas d) es
13:37<frosch123>el_En: in nightlies yes, in 0.6 no
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13:39<el_En>will changing that setting affect already existing schedules?
13:40<frosch123>in 0.6 yes
13:40<el_En>ok, in that case the word 'new' makes sense.
13:40<SmatZ>this change won't go to 0.6
13:40<@Celestar>New orders are nonstop by default
13:40-!-Zuu [] has joined #openttd
13:41<frosch123>Celestar: 'non-stop' is used in the order gui
13:41<frosch123>so for consistency...
13:41<frosch123>SmatZ: really ? :)
13:41<@Celestar>frosch123: yeah .. sorry
13:42<SmatZ>frosch123: yes :)
13:42<el_En>Celestar's latest suggestion + '-'
13:42<frosch123>you mean [19:39] <frosch123> d) "New orders are 'non-stop' by default"
13:43<SmatZ> has poll capability...
13:43-!-mortal` [] has joined #openttd
13:43<@Belugas>and that will end up in futile and sterile debates...
13:43<@Celestar>isn't this a bit too trival for a forum poll?
13:43<frosch123>oh noes, then I would get hundreds of questions what the option does, and what it does in 0.6, and that ttdp is far better, ...
13:44*Belugas hugs Celestar! We think alike!!!
13:44<@Celestar>What loo paper should Celestar buy when he goes shopping next time.
13:44-!-Volley [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:44*Celestar hi5s Belugas (=
13:44-!-[com]buster [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:44-!-[alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
13:44<el_En>frosch123: you are doing great work by finally fixing these strings.
13:44*Celestar agrees
13:46<frosch123>well, actually I am _producing_ great work by removing the old translations to force a retranslation :)
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14:07<nicfer>one question, in what file are recorded the TTD intro sprites?
14:09<yorick>one of the trgxx files, I think TRGIR.GRF
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14:15-!-NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@] has quit [Quit:]
14:15<nicfer>trgir.grf also has got the ending cutscenes?
14:18-!-Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry
14:20-!-Celestar [] has joined #openttd
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14:29<el_En>no, openttd
14:30<@Celestar>right. wow sucks
14:31-!-Li-On [] has joined #openttd
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14:33<Forked>(..hammer online: age of reckoning)
14:33<el_En>Forked: English only!
14:34-!-grumbel [] has joined #openttd
14:35<Forked>sorry :)
14:39*welshdragon whinges at Brianetta
14:39-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-173-236.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:39<Brianetta>welshdragon: Do you have a modified client?
14:39<Brianetta>Only you are desyncing that frequently
14:40<welshdragon>no, i have a standard release
14:41<welshdragon>could just be i'm on wifi
14:41<@peter1138>I don't think there's much point chasing this one.
14:41<@peter1138>Could be in one of the already committed fixes.
14:41-!-ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
14:41<welshdragon>does this relate to me?
14:41<@Celestar>peter1138: In the Train Details Window, what should we display in the "cargo" tab?
14:42<@peter1138>Same as we always did.
14:44<TrueBrain>! :)
14:46-!-Swallow [] has joined #openttd
14:46<@peter1138>'!' is not a letter.
14:46<TrueBrain>neither was the \n between those lines
14:46-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-173-236.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:47<TrueBrain>welcome Sacro
14:47-!-thingwath [~thingwath@] has quit [Quit: Zkuste to bez dratu, mily Marconi!]
14:47<Sacro>TrueBrain: nice to know
14:47<Sacro>makes a change too
14:48<TrueBrain>you make no sense to me
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14:51<welshdragon>Brianetta, oh Brianetta, i de sync'd ahgain
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14:52<Prof_Frink>welshdragon: Stop failing.
14:52<Sacro>welshdragon: stop losing the game
14:52<welshdragon>Sacro, come on skype
14:55*peter1138 ponders getting his big monitor out.
14:55*welshdragon just lost the game
14:55<TrueBrain>Sacro: if you ever want welshdragon kicked, just let me know
14:56<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: From irc, or in reality?
14:56<TrueBrain>Prof_Frink: does it matter?
14:57-!-welshdragon [] has left #openttd [can't catch me!]
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14:59<welshdragon>is it safe yet?
15:00-!-Kalten [~gav@] has quit [Quit: Kalten]
15:00<Prof_Frink>Oh yes, it's perfectly safe.
15:00<Prof_Frink>You, on the other hand, are not.
15:01<TrueBrain>I tend to agree
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15:04<welshdragon>i live on the edge of danger. me
15:13<@Celestar>good night
15:13-!-Celestar [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:15<Sacro>TrueBrain: he's moving house soon, will be less than 5 mins from here
15:15<Sacro>I can kick him in person
15:15<TrueBrain>so you don't need me, good :)
15:18<nicfer>I think that presignals should be replaced with programable signals TTDP-style
15:20<@peter1138>Why replaced?
15:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r14276 /trunk/src/ (40 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: Rename one of the advanced settings, as 'TTDPatch compatible nonstop handling' wasn't a correct description anymore.
15:22<FauxFaux>Aaagh, I have to learn a new name for the crazy setting?
15:23<frosch123>you can also stick to 0.6
15:24<Aylomen>I never learned, how it is called... I see TTDPatch and now, that this setting is evil ;)
15:24<TrueBrain>MMAke a billboard
15:26<welshdragon>Sacro, you wouldn't kick me
15:26<welshdragon>i have a weapon!
15:27<nicfer>replaced because 'programming' them provides the same options than presignals and more
15:27*Prof_Frink 's weapon is bigger.
15:27<Sacro>welshdragon: meh, still, could get shin to yiff you
15:28<@peter1138>FURRIES. Just say NO.
15:28<Prof_Frink>Squirrels with tits?
15:28<Sacro>he does keep massaging my back
15:28<Sacro>peter1138: i live with one
15:28<Sacro>and another is due to move in
15:29<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Is your SSID "yiffhouse"?
15:29*peter1138 plays with Phun 4.22
15:29<Sacro>not quite
15:29<@peter1138>I've got water-suspension :o
15:30<DaleStan>nicfer: Repaced, no. Presignals is by far the most common usage case, and having that compiled in is far faster, both in required player time and in execution time, than having custom-programmed signals.
15:31-!-ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke]
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15:32<MrMist>Hey guys
15:32<MrMist>quick eustion
15:32<nicfer>removing them requires less sprites
15:33<nicfer>maybe make presignals a default type of programmed signals?
15:34<@peter1138>There is no sprite limit, so that doesn't gain you anything.
15:35<MrMist>Train speeds... how do I transform kmh/mph to tiles per day
15:35<frosch123>though there is limit in the length of the ctrl-click signal-cycle to stay sane
15:37<nicfer>if we remove presignal graphics, they can used for advanced signals AKA pbs
15:38<SmatZ>MrMist: 128kph = 1/16 of tile / day (iirc, not really sure - you may simply measure it)
15:39<SmatZ> / tick
15:40<SmatZ>so ~4-5 tiles / day
15:41<SmatZ>tested, it is ~4,5 tiles / day
15:41<SmatZ>(74 / 16)
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15:51<MrMist>SmatZ: Thanks :) I'll be calculating some more here
15:51<the_bat>guys where I may download GRFs ???
15:52-!-MrMist [] has left #openttd []
15:54<SmatZ>mr ...
15:54<el_En>do urls have genders now
15:58<@Belugas>ho ho ho. hilarious comment by our in-house genius named el_En
15:59<@Belugas>i'm el Ho el
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16:00<the_bat>damn I need generic tram set 0.4
16:01<the_bat>the page have wrong link to download the file it's the same as link to the forum about generic tram set 0.4
16:01<the_bat>look at this page
16:01-!-[com]buster [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:01<+glx>it's installed with openttd 0.6.2
16:01-!-[com]buster [] has joined #openttd
16:01<+glx>all 0.6.x indeed
16:02<Brianetta>That graph looks like the maximum of a negative square function and a linear function
16:03<the_bat>I have 0.6.2 but I can't connect to some servers because I don't have this GRF
16:03<the_bat>U sure it's included in 0.6.2???
16:03<Brianetta>the_bat: It isn't if you're checking out svn
16:03<Brianetta>somebody forgot to include it
16:04<SmatZ>I am not sure, I think it was forgotten in 0.6.2 - but maybe in the official tag or so
16:04<the_bat>so what can I do to fix it???
16:04<Brianetta>It's not in the official tag
16:04<Brianetta>It's in the official binary packages
16:04<the_bat>but lot of servers us it
16:04<Brianetta>(rumour has it)
16:05<Brianetta>the_bat: Do you use svn?
16:05<Brianetta>the_bat: Do you use svn???
16:05<the_bat>what is svn ?
16:05<Brianetta>obviously you don't *(:
16:05<Brianetta>Get hol dof 0.6.1
16:05<Brianetta>It' sin there
16:05<Brianetta>woah, space bar craziness
16:06<the_bat>I mean I have bad version
16:06-!-Swallow [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]]
16:07<the_bat>I get the package for my debian and it works without problems
16:11<the_bat>damn where I may find correct link to download generic tram set v0.4?
16:11<@Belugas>first place i would look for is on Zephyris's signature
16:11<@Belugas>i think
16:11<SmatZ> what's bad about this link?
16:12<@Belugas>which points to this dwonload:
16:12<@Belugas>which does work
16:13<the_bat>I can't find the link on the forum but .... ah THX SO MUCH
16:14<SmatZ>errr Belugas posted it...
16:14<SmatZ>it is directly at the bottom of this ...
16:14<SmatZ>so nobody would expect you could overlook that :-P
16:14<the_bat>download link open the forum page
16:14<the_bat>thanks for corrrect link
16:15-!-the_bat [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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16:23<@peter1138>Bah, infinite strength hinges can be forced open :(
16:24-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:24*peter1138 ponders a better solution
16:24<@peter1138>A simple hook works but is a pain to attach :o
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16:39*Sacro does a ./configure & ; make
16:39<Eddi|zuHause><CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14275 /trunk/src/lang/ (37 files in 2 dirs): -Change: Rename 'Configure patches' to 'Advanced settings'. <- YAY ;)
16:41<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Now, to merge the other settings into it, and lose the "Advanced"
16:42<el_En>Eddi|zuHause: it was about time for that. should have been done 4 years ago.
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16:54<welshdragon>Brianetta, your server fail
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16:57<Sacro>welshdragon: what happened?
17:04<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: interesting, I prefer "Sie" over "du" (similiar forms in Czech)... I hear "du" from ads/servers/everything for teenagers and I find it disguisting :-P
17:04<SmatZ>"are we friends or what you call me this way?" my opinion
17:05<SmatZ>maybe in Germany, the situation is different
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>well, games are very informal...
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>but for broadcast media, "du" is very weird... it should be "ihr" (plural)
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>it really depends on context... in some companies, "du" is used between colleagues who hardly know each other, in others, it's only "sie"
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17:08<Eddi|zuHause>where "Sie" would be fitting is the prototype offer window, as it represents a formal letter that is exchanged between companies
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17:08<TrueBrain>[22:39] * Sacro does a ./configure & ; make <- that most likely gives you an error .. why fork the ./configure and start the make without waiting for the ./configure to finish .. you are so weird ..
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>but not in the right click hints that are addressed to the player
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17:09<el_En>and if you wanted to do that (although it doesn't make any sense), why not simply say "./configure & make"
17:09<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: ok thanks :-)
17:09<welshdragon>Sacro, i joined, then desync'd
17:09<SmatZ>TrueBrain: :-)
17:10<welshdragon>sorry, was playing uplink
17:10<Ammler>> make
17:10<Ammler>src: (Not a versioned resource)
17:10<Ammler>with hg repos since yesterday.
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17:13<TrueBrain>Ammler: 'with hg repos' .. how clear :p
17:14<TrueBrain>it is not like we have like 15 hg repos.. :p
17:14<Ammler>TrueBrain: well, I had no problems until yesterday
17:14-!-welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone
17:14<TrueBrain>I always love users with clear problem reports
17:14<TrueBrain>they make life so easy :)
17:14<Ammler>shall I try hmm, how it that called trunk hg?
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>i smell irony ;)
17:15<Ammler>cargodest is well merged with trunk
17:16<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: yeah ..
17:16<Ammler>it works with trunk...
17:16<TrueBrain>so someone messed up a sync
17:16<Ammler>seems so :-)
17:17<Ammler>not here anymore
17:17<TrueBrain>but .. compiles fine here
17:17<TrueBrain>so you messed up ;)
17:17<Ammler>also compled well on my server
17:17<TrueBrain>rerun configure, might help :p Hehe :)
17:18<Ammler>you really think, I didn't try?
17:18<TrueBrain>what am I going to watch next ...
17:18<Ammler>runed also make mrproper
17:18<TrueBrain>Ammler: check if you don't have any diff ('hg diff' / 'hg status')
17:18<TrueBrain>found a movie, night all :)
17:19<Ammler>no dif
17:19<Ammler>good night TrueBrain, enjoy :P
17:21<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> what am I going to watch next ... <- robot chicken :p
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17:23<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: Stealth
17:23<TrueBrain>I decided
17:23<TrueBrain>but tnx ;)
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17:23<Eddi|zuHause>is that the movie with the AI airplane?
17:25*SmatZ can't reproduce Ammler's issue in trunk\
17:25<Ammler>[23:16] <Ammler> it works with trunk...
17:25<SmatZ>sorry too many text to read
17:27<Ammler>well, I delete my hg repo and check out new
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17:32<Ammler>now it works
17:32<Ammler>strange :-/
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17:35<Ammler>but possible with those makefile changes the last time
17:36<SmatZ>true... I had to reconfigure before compiling
17:36<Ammler>how do you reconfigure?
17:36<SmatZ>./configure insert_your_params :)
17:37<SmatZ>but ./configure --reconfigure is available too
17:37<Prof_Frink>./configure --deconfigure ?
17:37<Ammler>I deleted config.cache
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>aw i hate it... every time i see a gas mask, i think "are you my mommy?" :p
17:37<Ammler>and ran ./configure
17:37<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Don't blink.
17:37<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: Are you my mummy?
17:38*Prof_Frink unfurls the banner
17:38<Prof_Frink>Sally Sparrow for Companion '10
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>i heard some rumors that torchwood season 3 is only going to be 5 episodes...
17:41<Prof_Frink>That's 5 too many.
17:41<Prof_Frink>Unless Moffat's taking over that too
17:41<el_En>off-topic; can someone give me two or more reasons why switching to HG would be a better idea than SVN? (currently using CVS, platforms Linux, Mac, Win.)
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17:42<Prof_Frink>el_En: It's more efficient - 2 keypresses vs 3
17:43<Brianetta>Seen Jekyll?
17:43*Brianetta has the DVD to hand
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>el_En: with hg, you can commit local changes
17:48<el_En>merging is supposed to be less painful in HG than in SVN?
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17:51<Eddi|zuHause>that i can't judge, but at least your local changes are versioned then
17:51<el_En>that's good
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>hg won't magically resolve conflicts
17:53<el_En>in at least CVS, it's not the conflicts that create the pain, but finding out revision numbers between which you want to merge for each file, and merging one file at a time.
17:54<el_En>maybe that's a little better in SVN with its global revision numbering.
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20:59<lobster>anyone know if the vehicle list messing up has something to with the new vehicle pool and/or not using a nightly but 0.6.2 (as the OS X nightlies still seem to be broken)?
21:06<Yexo>check if there is a similar bug report and if not create one (
21:08<SmatZ>I don't remember anyone reporting problems with vehicle lists
21:09<SmatZ>so, as Yexo said :)
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 09 00:00:20 2008