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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-09-09

---Logopened Tue Sep 09 00:00:20 2008
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01:29*Celestar has a 6-hour exam coming up
01:29*Celestar hates that
01:30<nckomodo>I'm so glad I'm done with school for now
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01:31<nckomodo>ugh, hate that
01:32<nckomodo>where I think I'm looking at another channel and someone from a different channel joins
01:32<nckomodo>and its like
01:32<nckomodo>"hey its that guy from #someotherchannel!"
01:32<nckomodo>oh wait no it isnt I'm still looking at #someotherchannel
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01:37<@Celestar>nckomodo: I am the examiner (=
01:37<nckomodo>ah
01:37<@Celestar>not the examinee (does that even exist?) :P
01:37<nckomodo>it does now
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01:38<@Celestar>(=
01:42<Forked>meep meep .)
01:43<nckomodo>you have one eye
01:43<Forked>I'm sort of sleepy
01:43<@Celestar> -)
01:43<Forked>also I'm gonna be late for work again because of cargodest :)
01:43<nckomodo>.'/)
01:43<Forked>¯\(º_o)/¯
01:43<@Celestar>there still are two bugs to finish off :
01:43<nckomodo>¯\.'/)/¯
01:43*Forked is just happy his vdsl2 started working again
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01:48<stevenh>Guys, are any of the NoAI Devs here?
01:49<@Celestar>here maybe, awake .. I think not :P
01:49<@Celestar>TrueBrain: are you awake? :P
01:50<stevenh>I just wanted to know if the Buy Land item has been left out of the provided functions for a reason or if it's just on a todo somewhere?
01:51<@Celestar>I *think* it is a todo
01:52<stevenh>Is there any way of seeing the current todo(s)?
01:54<@Celestar>that I don't know sorry
01:57<@Celestar>gtg
01:57<@Celestar>quit
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02:05<planetmaker>stevenh: try #openttd.noai
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06:03<Eddi|zuHause>+STR_JUST_RAW_STRING :{RAW_STRING} <- what is this? is this supposed to be in translation files?
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06:19<ln>my apologies
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06:20<@peter1138>in!
06:20<ln>out!
06:21<@peter1138>shake it all about!
06:29<Pikka>you filthy swines!
06:31<Brianetta>http://qdb.us/227085
06:31<Pikka>how rare
06:32<Pikka>dinnertiems
06:32-!-Pikka is now known as Pikka|afk
06:32<ln>Pikka|afk: no away nicks
06:32<@peter1138>There's no such rule!
06:32<Brianetta>Pikka is an exception
06:33<Brianetta>peter1138: There is, according to thingy.
06:39<Brianetta>http://qdb.us/225287
06:39<Brianetta>that made me lol
06:39<TrueBrain>wasn't there a rule against such urls...
06:39<TrueBrain>do we really need to put all of them in the topic? :p
06:40<TrueBrain>(nothing against you Brianetta, but we once had a user, I won't call names *bjarni*, who pasted more bash-urls then lines of text :p)
06:41<Brianetta>The two qdb URLs were to different ends
06:41<Brianetta>The first was a submission from this channel, and just a notification
06:41<Brianetta>The second was damned funny, and a one-off
06:41<TrueBrain>fair enough :p
06:43<ln>TrueBrain: http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/then http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/than
06:44<TrueBrain>why are rooms always too small for your stuff :(
06:44<dih>heyho
06:44<TrueBrain>oh no, a dih
06:44<Brianetta>TrueBrain: They aren't if, like me, you have guys in your house adding places to store crap
06:45<ln>guten afternoon, dih
06:45<Brianetta>They boarded the loft yesterday
06:45<Brianetta>and are installing shleving above the stairs now
06:45<TrueBrain>well, the only place I could 'add' is outside the building
06:45<TrueBrain>I don't think they appreciate it when I tried that ;)
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06:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: matthijs * r14277 /trunk/findversion.sh: -Change [Makefile]: Use [ -n ... ] instead of using return values from grep and read in findversion.sh.
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06:49<Brianetta>You have stairs?
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06:50<Brianetta>re Pikka
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06:50<Pikka>lo
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06:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: matthijs * r14278 /trunk/findversion.sh: -Cleanup [Makefile]: Rename $TAGS to $TAG.
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07:02<dih>in the advanced settings window (formerly known as configure patches)
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07:02<dih>the warning about the station spread
07:02<dih>is that still needed?
07:02<dih>or can that not be removed
07:03<dih>there are a few settings where a higher value means more resource hungry
07:04<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> why are rooms always too small for your stuff :( <- same as harddrives
07:04<dih>or pants
07:08<Progman>dih: your diaper is already full? *runs*
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>who needs pants when you have harddrives...
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>err... wait...
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07:09<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: after 1.5 TB of home storage, and 0.5 TB in backup storage, I kind of have enough :p
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07:21<@Rubidium>peter1138: can you take a look at FS#2281? It's likely caused by r14175.
07:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: matthijs * r14279 /trunk/os/debian/ (control control.in rules): -Revert (r14237): Undo changes for renaming Debian packages, this is not the right way to do this.
07:27<@peter1138>Oh, yes.
07:27<blathijs>Rubidium: Could you backport r14279? Or shall I?
07:27<@Rubidium>I'll do that (eventually)
07:27<@peter1138>There's a line to remove, heh
07:27<@peter1138>In t' drop down event handler.
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07:32*welshdragon whoines at Brianetta
07:32<welshdragon>i keep desyncing
07:33<@Rubidium>welshdragon: stop using waypoints and making RV jams :)
07:33<@Rubidium>or flooding people
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07:35*peter1138 spots a dead pixel. Argh.
07:36<welshdragon>Rubidium, i'm not flooding, and how do i stop rv jams?
07:36*dih calles the amulance
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>in the sky?
07:36<dih>*ambulance
07:36<dih>gnah
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07:36<Eddi|zuHause>amule?
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>böser raubmordkopierer :p
07:36<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause, english please?
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07:37<Eddi|zuHause>welshdragon: if you can suggest a proper translation for that word...
07:37<@Rubidium>welshdragon: by stopping all road vehicles (yes that's a "bad" fix for the problem)
07:37<welshdragon>hmm
07:38<welshdragon>Rubidium, i kinf of rely on 200 rv's
07:38<dih>you should not
07:38<welshdragon>i do
07:38<dih>not as bad as relying on ships, but yeah
07:38<dih>:-P
07:39<welshdragon>i have 160 rv's
07:39<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: assuming Boeser is a location, the Boeser robbery murder copy cat?
07:39-!-helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: no... "böse" means "evil"
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: "Raubkopierer" means something along the lines of "software pirate"
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>and the "Mord" in there is kind of a satirical overexaggeration of the itself overly exaggerated word
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>because nobody is violently robbing software...
07:43<dih>he was not murdered... he desynced....
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07:43<@Rubidium>so I haven't lost my translation skills :) reading something COMPLETELY different in a foreign language that there actually is (in latin I made murder parties of weddings and vice versa)
07:44<@Rubidium>not to mention failing to write proper English sentences
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>it's kind of a running gag whenever there is a news message about file sharing and copyright law, to extend that word with even more non-sensical crimes
07:44<welshdragon>one of the other companies has 127 rv's
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>does the owner of the vehicle really matter?
07:45<@Rubidium>nope
07:45<welshdragon>no, i'm just stating that there's over 200 rv's
07:45<welshdragon>and that's probably what the problem is
07:46<@Rubidium>ask Brianetta to disable RVs for his next game
07:46<@peter1138>We need a 0.6 branch test ;)
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>ask Rubidium to release 0.6.3 before Brianettas next game :p
07:47<dih>there have been openttdcoop games with way more rv's than that
07:47<dih>600+ iirc
07:47<@Rubidium>that's going to take a while to be released
07:47<dih>we are busy on the german translation ;-)
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>"{P Zug Züge}" <- that is already my alternate suggestion
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>or "Z{P ug üge}" would do the job also, but it looks ugly
07:56<dih>it looks ugly, but nicer to do
07:56<dih>if you want ugly you can even split it up more
07:56<dih>Z{P u ue}g{P "" e}
07:57<dih>hihi
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>i think the second one needs the reference string, {P 0 "" e}
07:57<dih>oh - true
07:57<dih>could very well be
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>at least that's what i did with the gender in the prototype window
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>the grammar system is cool when you know how to use it :p
07:59<dih>hehe - i only now realised it said Zugs :-D
07:59*dih does not know that yet....
07:59<dih>1 Zug 2 Zugs hihihihi
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>hence my comment ;)
08:00<dih>that really is a cute one i must say :-P
08:00<dih>Voreinstellung für Signale though is not the best descriptive either :-(
08:01<dih>well.. perhaps :-P
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but it's furthest away from "Standard" i could get ;)
08:01<dih>hihi
08:01<dih>i translated a tooltip string
08:02<dih>did not think keeping it 'short' was gonna be _that_ important, as it was a tooltip
08:02<dih>well - it was too long :-D
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>you can put line breaks in there ;)
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm... can i "mute" a running process (i.e. redirect stdout to /dev/null)?
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>without stopping it, i mean ;)
08:08<Ammler>use another window :-)
08:10<planetmaker>man kill is your friend :P
08:14<dih>nono - mute! not stop
08:15<dih>afaik you cannot ;-)
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: fails to meet requirement 2 ;)
08:15<dih>(- 2)
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08:16<Eddi|zuHause>well, i would think there'd be some magic i could do in /proc/<id>/
08:16<dih>ouch
08:16<dih>uh - that could really hurt :-D
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, which is why i ask, and not simply try ;)
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08:18*davis- hai
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>wo?
08:19<dih>da!
08:19<ln>get away from the water!
08:20<dih>someone can build docs if max_ships = 0?
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>yes, when the gui buttons are not disabled
08:21<dih>aye
08:21<dih>SmatZ ^
08:21<SmatZ>hello dih
08:22<Ammler> dih, advanced setting :-)
08:22<dih>:-P
08:22<dih>not the same thing ammler
08:22<dih>building something != hiding build options
08:25<planetmaker>dih: you wouldn't want to disable building the infrastructure. That's not nice.
08:25<planetmaker>Why would you want it anyway?
08:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14280 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: use IsRailWaypointTile() instead of IsTileType() and IsRailWaypoint() checks at several places
08:27<dih>planetmaker: imagin seeing an oil rig, and seeing that you just about have enough money for a doc and 2 ships
08:27<dih>then you build the dock and find you cannot build ships as max_ships = 0
08:27<planetmaker>so what?
08:27<dih>and you are losing money?
08:27<dih>hmmm...
08:27<dih>company dead
08:27<dih>boom
08:27<planetmaker>imagine you want to build a nice station and just miss a dock for your eye candy. What then.
08:28<dih>tough luck :)
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/02/27/redirecting-output-from-a-running-process/ <- that looks fun ;)
08:28<planetmaker>dih: there are no technical means to stop human stupidity. It's not even worth the try
08:28<dih>docs are ugly anyway :_D
08:28<dih>exit(0)
08:28<SmatZ>dih: Advanced Settings - GUI - second from the bottom
08:29<Eddi|zuHause><dih> then you build the dock and find you cannot build ships as max_ships = 0 <- that's why the GUI buttons get disabled
08:30<dih>nice link Eddi
08:31<Brianetta>Rubidium: I take it trams aren't the problem per se, then?
08:31<Brianetta>It's jammed RVs generally
08:32<dih>SmatZ, Eddi: that option is not enabled by default!
08:33<SmatZ>dih: it is not, most patches are TTD-like by default
08:33<SmatZ>though... in TTD, ships were always available
08:37<@Rubidium>Brianetta, more specifically: imagine a T junction where there's a jam on the | part and RVs coming from the left and right merging into that jam
08:38<Brianetta>yes
08:38<@Rubidium>jam can also be just two vehicles driving with almost no space between them
08:38<@Rubidium>and a third one trying the squeeze in between them at a junction
08:38<Brianetta>I can either disable RVs, or disable LilDood
08:39<Brianetta>He had one city in a state where you just couldn't see tarmac
08:40<Brianetta>I suppose trams are more likely to reveal the problem because they're less likely to be able to choose a non-jammed path
08:43<Eddi|zuHause><SmatZ> dih: it is not, most patches are TTD-like by default <- which i have complained many times about... defaults should be for newbies, not for TTD traditionalists
08:44<ln>Eddi|zuHause: complaining about default settings is not allowed.
08:44-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>ln: which part of the topic says that?
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08:45*SmatZ agrees with Eddi|zuHause
08:45<SmatZ>there could be presets
08:45<SmatZ>on the other hand... who wants to play with default TTD settings
08:45<SmatZ>including pathfinders
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>there are rumors that they exist ;)
08:46<ln>Eddi|zuHause: dunno. i tried to complain about the default message settings being too verbose on a big map, you'll have a newspaper popping up every damn second. i was told not to complain.
08:46<SmatZ>mostly TTDP fans I guess :)
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>one of the settings that are totally senseless (imho) is the red_twoway_eol
08:46<SmatZ>not at all :)
08:47<ln>Eddi|zuHause: not to complain and change the settings instead. later some guy called "ludde" complained about the same thing.
08:47<SmatZ>it is used to force trains to go different way when the signal is red
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>i mean not the existance of the setting, but the default value thereof
08:47<SmatZ>but if the signal is oneway, then the train may choose to go to the red signal
08:47<SmatZ>ah ok :)
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>i perfectly understand that coop-style people like to abuse such settings to the fullest ;)
08:48<SmatZ>hehe
08:49<SmatZ>I think it would be nice to have GUI for all settings
08:49<SmatZ>and the ability to reset to default everything
08:49<SmatZ>and to have presets
08:50<SmatZ>but then it could be too complex for many users
08:50<SmatZ>like "wth is Advanced YAPF settings?"
08:50<SmatZ>and what si a PF penalty?
08:50<blathijs>Something to make the pathfinder avoid things
08:51<@Rubidium>show settings: beginner, advanced user, expert ?
08:51<blathijs>ie, rather take a detour than plan a route through a tunnel, or through a red signal, etc
08:51<blathijs>oh wait
08:51<Eddi|zuHause>well, the "important" settings need to be sorted in a way that they are accessible to newbies, and the "unimportant" (expert) settings should be in another window
08:51<blathijs>That was not a question :-)
08:51-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
08:51<ln>default values are not supposed to be sensible!
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>"beginner" settings could be stuff like the road driving side, language and stuff
08:53<@Rubidium>advanced user most of the currently shown settings and expert's the rest
08:53<SmatZ>blathijs: :-)
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>some of the current "advanced" settings should rather be difficulty settings
08:55-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
08:57<Ammler>start a game through a "wizzard" with about 5 pages...
08:58<SmatZ>not a bad idea :)
08:59<dih>the wizard of oz
09:00<Ammler>first page askes for clima and difficult level then the following depense on that...
09:02<Ammler>you might be able to "learn" which settings needs which level until the release of 0.7 :-)
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09:02<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i didn't get an answer previously... what is the policy about "{RAW_STRING}" in language files?
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09:09<dih>Eddi|zuHause: {RAW_STRING} is not to be used in translations
09:09<dih>so nobody can translate STR_JUST_RAW_STRING
09:09<dih>:-D
09:10<dih>also, currently in the db we have {BLACK}Liefert: {GOLD}
09:10<dih>for {BLACK}Supplies: {GOLD}
09:10<dih>would "Produziert" not be better?
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>hm... that does not quite cover it...
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>@openttd log 13799
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>@help openttd
09:13<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Error: There is no command "openttd".
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>@help
09:13<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>@help openttd log
09:13<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Error: There is no command "openttd log".
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>@help openttd commit
09:13<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>wth?
09:13<SmatZ>@openttd commit 13799
09:13<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by glx :: r13799 /trunk/src/lang (36 files) (2008-07-23 14:58:43 UTC)
09:13<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Fix (r13730): {RAW_STRING} should be used in english.txt only
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: the bot commands me to contact you.
09:15<SmatZ>:)
09:19<dih>and {STRING} should be used instead of {RAW_STRING}?
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>apparently that's what the commit does
09:21<dih>right then :-)
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/FormatOfLangfiles#Translations_2 <- {RAW_STRING} does not appear in this list
09:22<dih>nope
09:22<dih>i know
09:22-!-mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
09:22<dih>that's why i asked
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09:26<dih>Service non-stop at <- that sucks
09:27<dih>can it not way Go non-stop to service at
09:27<dih>s/way/say/
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09:55<Eddi|zuHause>"this timetable will take 5,555 ticks to complete"
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>"this vehicle is currently running 374,924 ticks late"
09:55<hylje>how many centuries is that
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>i was playing that (old) game with daylength 4, so the original timetable is 18 days, and the lateness is roughly 3 years ;)
09:59-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>where the train is 43 years old
09:59<hylje>i'd myself be pretty upset if my train ended up three years late
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>it's a typical case of "a 10% error margin on autofill would have solved this"
10:02<dih>for tool tips, does the size of the toop tip windows ajust to the lines the text uses?
10:03<dih>i.e. length of string cannot be detected, but what about if i use 3x {} in translated text
10:03<dih>will the tool tip window be bigger?
10:04<SmatZ>I think so
10:04<dih>you think so or you know so :-P
10:05<SmatZ>there are multiline tooltips, so I guess it would work
10:05<SmatZ>just try it :)
10:06-!-Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-132.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit []
10:06<dih>i have already written a tooltip that was too long :-S
10:08<SmatZ>:)
10:09<welshdragon>Brianetta, these desyncs are annoying me
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>there's a trivial solution to that ;)
10:10-!-CIA-2 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd
10:11<dih>welshdragon: then fix them
10:11<welshdragon>i knowwhat the biug is
10:11<dih>what is it then?
10:11<dih>rv's?
10:11<welshdragon>yes, and i know, it's been fixed
10:11<+glx>dih: you can try it by modifying german.txt ;)
10:12<dih>yes glx, just right now i am at work and dont wanna start a game
10:12<dih>thankfully nobody asks questions when wt2 is open in my browser :-D
10:13<davis->unerhört
10:14-!-De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-132-133.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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10:18<dih>sup davis-
10:18<davis->nm
10:18-!-De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-132-123.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd
10:18<davis->bored
10:20<@Belugas>work, wt2? same as irc@swork :)
10:20<@Belugas>HIDE IT!!!
10:20<Forked>pfft
10:20<Forked>also if you're a coder.. irssi has a great theme for you
10:21<Forked>http://irssi.org/themefiles/c0ders.png <- is this not the perfect theme for any coder?
10:22<hylje>perfect theme for any code monkey
10:22<dih>LOL @ STR_000E
10:22<dih>english: ""
10:22<hylje>real coders blatantly irc and doesn't afraid of managers
10:23<dih>lol Forked
10:23<dih>that is nice
10:23<Forked>I actually need irc for workrelated things now and then :)
10:23<Forked>(easy way to communicate with people at competing ISPs)
10:24<dih>i was thinking of writing some kind of bridge to another chat system for that :-P
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>dih: i don't find any language where it is something other than ""
10:25<dih>the english it self is ""
10:25<dih>which is amuzing
10:25<dih>it's like "why do we need that?"
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10:30<@peter1138>Sometimes you need to include nothing ;P
10:30-!-De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-132-123.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:30<welshdragon>laggy wlan is laggy
10:31<ln>"" in english would be "ciao a tutti" in italian
10:31<dih>wow - your wisdom welshdragon
10:31<@Belugas>so is yours dih, hehe
10:31<@Belugas>[10:25] <dih> it's like "why do we need that?"
10:31<@Belugas>prrrrrt!
10:35<welshdragon>time to try the ethernet
10:39-!-welshdragon2 [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
10:40<dih>Belugas: why dont you enlighten me?
10:41<@Belugas>you mean: "why don't you baby feed me, Belugas?" ?
10:41<@Belugas>Kalten, i'
10:41<@Belugas>m
10:41<@Belugas>in Canada
10:41<@Belugas>if youi need to know
10:42<dih>no Belugas, i mean, why can you not as a dev explain to me the advantage of having an emtpy string in the language file
10:43<@peter1138>I already explained.
10:43-!-welshdragon [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:44<dih>yes - you did - i was more getting at Belugas ;-)
10:45<@Belugas>dih, why should I when you have the sources yourself and when you kow how to search for things?
10:45<@Belugas>gimme gimme gimme!!!
10:46<dih>becaus, due to some odd misunderstanding, i was still under the false impression of you actually being a friendly and helpful person
10:46<Lakie>...
10:46-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-70-101.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
10:46<dih>hehe
10:46<dih>i thought that was quite a good one :-P
10:46<Lakie>There are limits to peple pataince.
10:46<Lakie>people's*
10:47<dih>no Lakie, in this case it's just Belugas and I having some fun
10:47*peter1138 is having some Phun.
10:47<Forked>iPhun?
10:47<@Belugas>i'm having fun???
10:48<@peter1138>No, it's on the PC.
10:48<@Belugas>he ben...
10:48<@Belugas>hey Lakie :)
10:48<@Belugas>hey peter1138
10:48<Lakie>Hi Belugas.
10:48<@Belugas>:)
10:48*Lakie sighs
10:48<Lakie>Haven't got much done on new objects. :/
10:48<@peter1138>My suspension system doesn't work if the axle boxes are not connected together :/
10:49<@Belugas>Lakie, fear not, i'm totally stalled too
10:49<Lakie>Hehe
10:49<@Belugas>wife has some higher plans for me :S
10:50<Lakie>:o
10:50-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-77-86-2-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
10:50-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-77-86-2-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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10:52<dih>"could you fetch the vase from that top shelf for me?"
10:52<Sacro>who me?
10:52*dih hugs Belugas
10:53-!-Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0CD0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
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10:57-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
10:59*Belugas hands a chair to dih. Now, you can climb
10:59-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:59<@peter1138>I think he needs a lift.
11:00<@Belugas>lol
11:00<@peter1138>One from a coal mine.
11:00<LilDood>Any idea why OTTD wouldn't work on a PowerPC mac running Mac OSX 10.3.9?
11:00<Forked>not enough power! (ok that wasn't funny, please forgive me)
11:00<Lakie>Don't you need to compile any openttd past 0.5.x for powerpc?
11:00<dih>lol Belugas
11:01<Lakie>I don't think the official builds include the old mac cpus
11:01<Sacro>should do
11:01<Sacro>universal binaries
11:01<Sacro>iirc
11:01<dih>Lakie: they do, they are universal builds
11:01<Lakie>They AREN'T
11:01<Lakie>PowerPC and Intel use completely different Assembly
11:02<dih>Lakie: it works for me!
11:02<Sacro>Lakie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_binary
11:02<dih>have you never heared of universal binaries?
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.2.grill-hamburg.de/shop/images/LA_1L_MWPET_07_320.jpg <- i have a lift ;)
11:03<Lakie>No
11:03<Lakie>I don't use macs
11:03<Lakie>too expensive
11:03<dih>hehe
11:03<@peter1138>LilDood, depends what "wouldn't work" means.
11:04<dih>you can buy a 12" ppc at quite a reasonable price :-P
11:04<Sacro>Lakie: google "osx86"
11:04<LilDood>It won't run
11:05-!-Zr40 [~zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #openttd
11:05<@peter1138>The lost art of reporting bugs.
11:05<@peter1138>Will it ever return?
11:06<Lakie>Probably not, peter1138...
11:06<dih>LilDood: you said that earlier
11:06<dih>i can tell you it runs on 10.4 :-P
11:07-!-Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
11:08<dih>LilDood: what kind of mac you got?
11:08-!-tycoonmarkj [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
11:10<LilDood>dih: I already said, PowerPC
11:11-!-tycoonmarkj is now known as welshdragon
11:11<@Belugas>any USEFULL error messages, LilDood ?
11:11<LilDood>no error messages
11:11<@Belugas>nor BEHAVIOURS ? sounds, lights? smoke?
11:12<LilDood>Its does the running thing where the icon gets bigger and fades away, whirs and then nothing
11:12-!-m1cmack [~m1cmack@catv-89-134-133-181.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #openttd
11:12<m1cmack>hi all
11:13<@peter1138>You need to try running it from a terminal window. It might tell you more.
11:13<m1cmack>I have troubles with starting a server
11:13<m1cmack>can somebody help me?
11:15-!-welshdragon2 [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:17<@Belugas>m1cmack: what are the steps you have taken to try to solve it? what are the problems you have encountered? have you tried searching wiki? forum? what is your version? yur OS?
11:20-!-m1cmack [~m1cmack@catv-89-134-133-181.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
11:20<@peter1138>Hah
11:20<yorick>I told ya whales were scary!
11:20-!-peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | We Love YAPP | THIS IS NOT A PSYCHIC SUPPORT CHANNEL
11:21<@Belugas>lol
11:21<Sacro>I don't see a way to see available trams D:
11:21<Sacro>oh, there are no trams
11:21<yorick>could you help me, my crystal sphere is broken
11:24-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by peter1138
11:24-!-yorick was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [My crystal foot can still kick]
11:24<dih>LilDood: with 'what kind of mac' i did not mean the processor
11:24<dih>i mean the name!
11:25<dih>i.e. imac g3/4 iboot g3/4 power book ....
11:25<dih>c'mon
11:25<@peter1138>"gpl the entire project and the problem is solved!" << Haha
11:25<dih>:-D
11:25<dih>hihi
11:25<@peter1138>I'm glad you're not my solicitor.
11:25<hylje>magic
11:25<dih>i thought it was amusing :-P
11:26<@peter1138>No, just stupid.
11:26-!-Kalten [~gav@61.4.96.222] has quit [Quit: Kalten]
11:26<dih>shame :-)
11:26-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by peter1138
11:27-!-Skiddles [~notme@cm173.epsilon122.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:27<LilDood>dih: its an early G5
11:28<dih>which would make it a PowerMac
11:28<LilDood>yeah
11:29<dih>congrats
11:29<dih>G5 are sweet little things
11:29<dih>"little"
11:29<dih>:-P
11:29<LilDood>Thats what the setup guide says
11:29<dih>why dont you upgrade to 10.4?
11:29<dih>or 10.5
11:29<LilDood>That costs money
11:29<LilDood>And we rarely use it
11:30<SmatZ>[17:29:43] <LilDood> That costs money <== welcome to the Apple world :-P
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>wait... this is the first time i see yorick not joining 0.2 seconds after the ban is lifted...
11:30<SmatZ>anyway, LilDood, did you try running openttd from console? what does it say? what version do you use and what version was last working?
11:30<dih>LilDood: about 100 Euros
11:30<LilDood>It cost us something like ?1.5k i think
11:30<dih>no, you should not buy a new mac
11:30<dih>just a new operating system
11:31<LilDood>I tried it from ternimal, nothing extra
11:31<dih>mac prices are nearly the same all over the world*
11:31<dih>*excluding US
11:31<LilDood>heh
11:31<LilDood>not my decision to upgrade
11:31<dih>pricess are lower in the US
11:31<dih>i would suggest it
11:32<dih>i take it it's at work?
11:32<LilDood>Its at home
11:32<dih>then you should have less issues getting it upgraded
11:32<LilDood>No point, we hardly use it
11:32-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
11:33<LilDood>I'm only on it now cause my PC is broke
11:33<dih>LilDood: that is a wast of a very good computer
11:33<dih>a G5 is a great machine
11:33<LilDood>I didn't pay for it
11:33<dih>so?
11:33<yorick>Eddi: it took a while, I was playing :-)
11:33<dih>if nobody uses it, why can you not use it?
11:33<LilDood>I play games
11:34<dih>and there are no games for os x?
11:34<dih>:-P
11:34<LilDood>No, its just I have lots of PC games
11:35<LilDood>that and this mac is a bit slow, we havn't upgraded it
11:35<dih>i am sure if you wanted to get rid of it the openttd guys would take it :-D
11:35<LilDood>oh no, we don't
11:35<LilDood>Its a spare really
11:36<dih>well - then make it usable :-P
11:36<LilDood>It gets a lot of sleep
11:36<dih>10.3 sucks
11:36<welshdragon>'must demolish bus station first' <- that's what i want rid of
11:36<welshdragon>grr
11:36<LilDood>You using the bulldozer thingy?
11:36<welshdragon>yes
11:36-!-mikl_ [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
11:36<welshdragon>the dynamite
11:36<LilDood>not the remove only road thing
11:36<dih>LilDood: how did you try to start the game from the command line
11:37<LilDood>i just opened it
11:37<LilDood>open openttd.app
11:37<dih>ah
11:37<dih>yes
11:37<dih>cd openttd.app
11:37<dih>ls
11:37<dih>in one of those folders there is a file called openttd
11:37<dih>do ./openttd to that
11:39<LilDood>i'm in the OTTD folder which has all the stuff in
11:39<welshdragon>LilDood, that's what i was doing
11:39<LilDood>Switch it to bus station
11:40<welshdragon>aah, clever
11:41<welshdragon>well, i never knew that :P
11:42<dih>LilDood: cd to OpenTTD.app/Contents/MacOS
11:42<dih>and type
11:42<dih>./openttd
11:43<LilDood>k, its doing something
11:43<LilDood>Segmentation fault
11:44<dih>you can paste a few lines of the output to http://paste.openttd.org
11:44<dih>and give us the url in here of the paste
11:44<LilDood>Segmentation fault is the only line of output
11:44<dih>oh and on top of that specify what version of openttd you are trying to run
11:44<dih>then try
11:45<dih>./openttd -d 9
11:45<LilDood>still 1 line
11:45<dih>what version of openttd?
11:45<LilDood>0.6.2
11:46-!-dfox [~dfox@r9eh58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:47<dih>LilDood: you could try http://nightly.openttd.org/devs/files/OTTD-macosx-nightly-r14275.zip
11:47<dih>a little nightly
11:48<LilDood>that runs fine
11:49<dih>:-)
11:49<dih>well then :-)
11:49<@Belugas>now, what should we say to uncle dih for his help?
11:50<dih>thanks uncle dih
11:50<dih>:-P
11:50<LilDood>Thanks dih :D
11:50<Kloopy>"Can I stoke your beard?"
11:50<dih>no touchty
11:50<SmatZ>:_D
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11:53<@Rubidium>see, I already told Bjarni... you can't compile an OSX binary that works on 10.3, 10.4 *and* 10.5. Only one for 10.3 and 10.4 or 10.4 and 10.5... Apple has really been doing great work lately
11:55<@Rubidium>LilDood: the best you can do is post a bug report on flyspray that the 0.6.2 release doesn't work on 10.3 and that the nightlies do
11:56<dih>Rubidium: then the best thing to do is to make 2 versions for os x
11:56<dih>10.3 + 10.4 ppc only
11:56<FauxFaux>Or zero versions.
11:56<dih>10.4 + 10.5 intel only
11:56<SmatZ>hehe
11:56<dih>will lower bandwidth
11:56<ln>Rubidium: that might be the price of not trying to maintain backwards compatibility forever like Microsoft.
11:57<dih>ln: they did that already once before
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11:57<dih>thinking of os 9 to os x here
11:57<dih>hehe - simply build binaries for os 9, who wants to play can install classic :-D
11:58<+glx>dih: it's impossible to make a working 10.5 intel
11:58<ln>dih: can install if they happen to have a ppc.
11:58<+glx>(without a real mac)
12:00<@Rubidium>we could ofcourse remove the locale detection from OSX as that's most likely the part of OpenTTD causing the crash
12:01<ln>most likely based on what evidence?
12:01<@Rubidium>the fact that Bjarni has been messing with it
12:02<@peter1138>Heh
12:02<@Rubidium>and the fact that the code is different if 'max mac version' >= 10.5 than when it's < 10.5
12:02<dih>laters
12:03<@Rubidium>and the nightly farm compiles with max mac version 10.4 and Bjarni makes the releases with max mac version 10.5
12:04<ln>Rubidium: removing locale detection would be a big step backwards in usability. and you should have at least a backtrace to support your claims.
12:05<@Rubidium>fine, then we'll remove 10.3 and 10.5 from the "officially" supported versions of OSX
12:06<@Rubidium>solves this issue and the compile farm issue
12:06<ln>wait, i have a better idea: remove OS X from the "officially" supported ports
12:07<@Rubidium>fine by me too; just use darwine
12:11<@Rubidium>ln: what would calling an API function with more parameters than it "supports" do?
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12:12<SpComb>Rubidium: make daemons fly out of your nose
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12:15<@Rubidium>SpComb: not out mine, I'm staying as far aware from Apple products as possible
12:15<@Rubidium>s/aware/away/
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12:19<Pikka>are you sure?
12:20<@Rubidium>who should be sure of what?
12:21<Pikka>that this is not a psychic support channel?
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i fear this "angewendet"/"angewandt" discussion is not going to lead anywhere...
12:23<ln>Rubidium: no idea actually, could imagine it would cause an error about missing symbol at runtime.
12:24<@Rubidium>I can really imagine undefined behaviour, especially segfaults
12:25<@Rubidium>ofcourse that doesn't prove a thing
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>we might be psychic, but this is definitely not a support channel :p
12:27<hylje>arguably since it's a known fact that people don't actually read topics
12:28<@Rubidium>hmm, Pikka doesn't belong to people? Then what is he?
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>soylent green.
12:28<@peter1138>How do other software suppliers deal with different OS X versions?
12:29<FauxFaux>Not providing binaries for osx, ime.
12:29<hylje>Rubidium: well duh we used our awesome psychic powers to convey him that message!
12:29<ln>peter1138: some drop support for 10.3.
12:29<@Rubidium>write a ginourmous abstraction layer?
12:30<planetmaker>[17:58] <glx> dih: it's impossible to make a working 10.5 intel <-- but there a number of people who successfully compile it on Leopard :) Crosscompiling might be tricky, though
12:30<+glx>planetmaker: [17:58:39] <+glx> (without a real mac)
12:30<planetmaker>:) ok.
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12:33<planetmaker>[18:05] <Rubidium> fine, then we'll remove 10.3 and 10.5 from the "officially" supported versions of OSX <--- hm. 10.5 would be a shame (though I still run 10.4 :P )
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12:34<Eddi|zuHause>the console command "patch" needs to be renamed
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>"set" and "list_settings"
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>and we need support for "set name=value"
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>i too often fell in that trap already ;)
12:37<yorick>and we need support for a better console
12:38<hylje>embed python
12:39*Rubidium knows a version of embedded python to use
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>embed c ;)
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>embed brainfuck ;)
12:40<hylje>give it an (simple?) object which represents settings, maybe on several levels
12:40<Sacro>embed whitespace
12:40<hylje>make it introspectable and magically get documents from somewhere
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>now i know! embed XML!
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>then everybody can understand it!
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>because it is human readable!
12:41<hylje>for bonus points allow changing everything (through ctypes?), provide a simple scripting support (with e.g. scheduled callbacks)
12:46<planetmaker>oh, and add a therapist like emacs has... :P
12:49-!-helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has joined #openttd
12:50<hylje>yep, emacs
12:53*planetmaker proposes to start supporting emacs as OS for OpenTTD :P
13:00*Belugas proposes planetmaker as the porter and maintener of that OS
13:01<dih>Belugas, you must be out of your mind
13:01<dih>we need him and his time for wwottdgd
13:01<dih>:-)
13:01<yorick>mainly his time
13:02<dih>yorick, WRONG
13:02<yorick>well, I need his time, you need him :-p
13:02<dih>you need everybodies time!
13:02<dih>or at least you consume it :-P
13:02<yorick>yes, so I can use his too
13:03<Ammler>hehe, planetmaker the nighly build maintainer...
13:04<dih>:-)
13:04<Ammler>seriously can't you use a macserver for that?
13:04*yorick ponders making some time to get the python bot working as a proxy so an infinite number of people can join with unpatched versions
13:05<dih>Ammler, if they had a mac server, they would us it
13:06<yorick>but they keep saying I'm doing it the wrong way
13:08<Ammler>well, then planetmaker needs to let his mac run allday :-P
13:08<@Rubidium>Ammler: any idea how much a simple mac server costs?
13:08<Ammler>Rubidium: I thought more of someone who has already one.
13:09<Ammler>and could run a side job all night...
13:09<dih>no - 2000 CEST Ammler, not all night
13:09<Ammler>menat every night :-)
13:09<@Rubidium>we don't want to have any time limitations for using the compile farm
13:10<dih>i was more making a point of all build being done at the same time
13:10<dih>or after 2000
13:10<dih>Rubidium, why not buy a second hand mac mini
13:11<@Rubidium>very expensive to place that in a DC
13:11<Ammler>well, it could run at home, does only need to make the build and upload it once...
13:11<Ammler>but very unstable, I fear.
13:12<@Rubidium>we do not like unstable connections
13:12<@Rubidium>.hu <-> .nl was already unstable enough
13:12<Ammler>I see, the reason for the new server :-)
13:12<dih>Rubidium, perhaps there might be some possibility elsewhere
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13:19<Ammler>[19:08] <Rubidium> Ammler: any idea how much a simple mac server costs? <-- around 120$: http://www.serverlogistics.com/hosting.php
13:21<@Rubidium>and you can install a whole development environment on that?
13:22<Ammler>ssh access..., can that be limited?
13:22<Ammler>well, was just an example, you would need for donating first...
13:23<Ammler>a well english writer should write a nice email to some mac hoster and ask for it :-)
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13:23<ln>Ammler: do you know how to install dev tools or other things through an ssh connection?
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13:24<Wolf01>hello
13:24<Ammler>ln: mac users will, I don't need to :P
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13:26<@Rubidium>and I wonder whether 1000 MB is enough for OSX's development toolchain
13:27<Ammler>well, if you ask for a hosting, you should of course tell them, what you need, I assume, they know what is needed...
13:28<ln>a lot more than 1000 MB is needed at least temporarily.
13:30<@Rubidium>not to mention a few hundred MB for temporary files during the compile
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13:32<ln>the downloadable installation image of devtools is more than 900 MB.
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>you also need a few MB for an svn checkout...
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13:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r14282 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
13:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-09-09 17:38:39
13:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed, 7 changed by Hadez (7), joeprusa (1)
13:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: danish - 61 fixed, 6 changed by ThomasA (28), MiR (39)
13:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: dutch - 6 fixed by habell (5), webfreakz (1)
13:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: estonian - 1 fixed by kristjans (1)
13:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 66 fixed by habazi (66)
13:40<ln>interesting, a swede speaking german on the news.
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>baaah... someone should teach me to not open a post titled "Visual Basic 6.0"
13:42<+glx>where?
13:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r14283 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2281](r14175): beep only after clicking on the main toolbar, not after finishing the selection
13:44<@peter1138>I can host a MacMini if someone can find one :p
13:45-!-qkr [qkr@a91-153-49-185.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
13:45<qkr>how do I use the new advanced signals? is there a guide?
13:45<@peter1138>Place them where a train should wait.
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13:46<@peter1138>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/YAPP might help.
13:47<dih>peter1138: ebay?
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13:48<SmatZ>hmm I wonder why oneway PBS are not used in that example
13:49<@peter1138>Because they're generally not needed.
13:50<SmatZ>I use them...
13:51<SmatZ>but right :) there aren't needed
13:51<qkr>can I use advanced signal where I before used pre- and exit-signals? like when 1 track splits into 2
13:51<@peter1138>'generally not needed' does not mean 'never needed'
13:52<SmatZ>qkr: many people build PBS even in this case, when it is not needed... you waste more CPU power this way
13:53<qkr>I have enough cpu power for openttd, that's not a prob
13:54<@peter1138>Splitting 1 into 2 with PBS does actually have a use.
13:54<@peter1138>A train following another can proceed earlier.
13:54<Zuu>qkr: depends on how big you want to go. Going big big big, will make you reach the limit of what your computer can do.
13:56<SmatZ>peter1138: it matters only in cases when you have signal every tile on your lane so trains can be so near each other... (and of course if the network is jammed,)
13:56<SmatZ>and if you lack space
13:56<@peter1138>I find it far simpler just to place PBS signals everywhere.
13:59<Eddi|zuHause><qkr> can I use advanced signal where I before used pre- and exit-signals? like when 1 track splits into 2 <- most of the time, put a one-way signal where you previously put a pre-signal, put no signal, where you previously put an exit-signal, and put normal signals everywhere else
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>where "normal" means "PBS" signal
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14:01<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and "no" signal means "backwards" signal, when the signal was twoway
14:07<qkr>ok..
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14:30<SmatZ>tadaaaam :) after a lot of work done on YAPP, michi_cc is another person with commit rights ;-) congratulations :-)
14:31<Yexo>congratz michi_cc
14:31-!-FR^2 [~frquadrat@oscar.frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd
14:31<hylje>the developers! they're multiplying!
14:32-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-230-95.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
14:35<Sacro>hylje: we keep losing them
14:35<Sacro>like DarkVater, Celester, Bjarni, TrueLight, KUDr
14:37<Noldo>I thought Celestar has been quite active lately
14:37<Wolf01>:O
14:37<hylje>lies
14:37<Wolf01>congratulations michi_cc
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: The list should be a lot longer...
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>like Tron, or ludde
14:39<Sacro>oh yes, Tron
14:39<Ammler>and half can be removed :P
14:40<hylje>in short Sacro fails miserably as usual
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14:43<planetmaker>Hey, congratulations michi_cc :)
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14:45<Zuu>Congratulations to michi_cc from me too. :)
14:46<Ammler>cratulation michi_cc, now you can fix the reversing troubles ;-)
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14:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14284 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13958): Trains would not look ahead and extend their reservation on a waypoint tile in all cases.
14:48<@Belugas>Ammler, you want to scare him away?
14:48<@Belugas>congrats to michi_cc :)
14:48<@Belugas>you see what GODO work can lead to ?
14:48<SmatZ>congrats michi_cc, clap clap clap :)
14:48<@Belugas>GOOD
14:48<Ammler>I hope not, he just explained, it is not a YAPP issue :-)
14:49<Forked>michi_cc: Keep up the good work =)
14:49<Forked>and thank you
14:52<Vikthor>congratulations from me too michi_cc
14:53<Ammler>what does a power station need to disapear?
14:53<SmatZ>Ammler: magic dynamite cheat
14:53<Ammler>and why is that
14:53<Ammler>?
14:54<SmatZ>ask CS I guess
14:54<Ammler>Celestar?
14:54<SmatZ>no, Chris Sawyer :)
14:54<Ammler>:-)
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>in TT original, power stations and forests never disappeared
14:55<Ammler>but could considered as bug, or was it intendend?
14:56<welshdragon>maybe it might be good to have older power stations demolished after a time, and new ones built?
14:56<frosch123>Ammler: set property 0B to something non-zero
14:56<frosch123>same applies to both banks and water towers
14:56<Ammler>frosch123: I speak about default (non-newgrf) industries
14:57<frosch123>what is the difference ?
14:57<frosch123>the default value of property 0B is 0 for those four industries
14:58<Ammler>and idea why?
14:58<SmatZ>it was designed this way
14:59<SmatZ>default value = value of original industry
15:00<SmatZ>any NewGRF may override this value...
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15:01<Ammler>the problem is, because we have a long starting phase, players tend to produce scenarios with many industries so there are some left until the main game begins.
15:02<CIA-2>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14285 /trunk/src/ (train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_func.h): -Fix [FS#2263]: A train inside a wormhole could free the reservation of another train inside the wormhole.
15:04<Ammler>wormhole=bridge/tunnel?
15:04<Zuu>As far as I know.
15:05<Zuu>I think depots might be concidered wormwholes too, but I'm not sure when it comes to code.
15:05<Zuu>But brigdes and tunnels are wormholes.
15:07<Ammler>might it be that powerstations need to have property 0 because if they don't produce something?
15:07<Ammler>-if
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15:09<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: forest has 2
15:09<Zuu>Or it was to diferentate the industries and make some easier than other.
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: it was probably changed in TTD
15:10<frosch123>Ammler: temperate bank has 0 and produces something
15:11<frosch123>but hey do no change production IIRC
15:12<Ammler>frosch123: but production is very low for banks
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15:16<@Belugas>[14:56] <Ammler> frosch123: I speak about default (non-newgrf) industries <--- industry properties will not change. they are as they are and will remain as such. This makes it so that newgrf compliance is enforced and maintained
15:17<Ammler>Belugas: I know and agree, I was wondering if there is a reason.
15:17<@Belugas>now you have the reason :)
15:17<@Belugas>plus...
15:17<@peter1138>The reason is; that's how it is.
15:18<Ammler>well, but not from you :-)
15:18<@Belugas>we did not worked our butt for so long on newinduistries to change bhaviours/values by no-newgrf
15:18<Ammler>you got me wrong
15:18<@Belugas>apart from maybe doing funy stuff like adding more acceptance/production cargos ...
15:19<@Belugas>when really bored...
15:19<Ammler>me is just wondering, if I or someone would make a grf with that property >0, would that have a bad side effect?
15:20<Ammler>as disapearing PowerStations, whcih are serviced with coal.
15:20<@peter1138>Well, you can try it.
15:21-!-Bergee [~bergee@c-68-42-180-23.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #openttd []
15:21<CIA-2>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14286 /trunk/src/yapf/ (yapf_node_rail.hpp yapf_rail.cpp): -Fix [FS#2265]: If a change of conventional/electric rail coincided with the start of a station platform, stale reservations could be left behind.
15:23<@Belugas>Ammler, it will not crash the game for sure.
15:23<@Belugas>it will just have different behaviour that waht you are accustomed to
15:24<@Belugas>as peter1138 said, try it and you will see
15:24<frosch123>[21:25] <Belugas> Ammler, it will not crash the game for sure. <- never promise such things :)
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15:24<SmatZ>frosch123: exactly my thoguhts ;)
15:24<Ammler>like pikkas town grf :-P
15:25<@Belugas>mmh?
15:25<Sacro>hi
15:31<@Belugas>hello Sacro :)
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15:45<ln>Rubidium: i was told by someone who codes with Cocoa for living that calling a method with unknown arguments would result in a runtime exception.
15:50-!-trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd
15:51<Ammler>another reason for focus to dos palette: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Industries#Map_colour_19_
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15:56*Belugas shakes his head in disbelief
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15:59<Wolf01>'night
15:59-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@79.0.236.137] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
15:59<ln>see, for italian "" is not "".
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16:12*davis- gn
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16:18<nicfer>one question, does work opengrf.obg in 0.6.2?
16:18<Ammler>no
16:18<nicfer>the only solution for it is renaming files right?
16:19<Noldo>FooBar makes me sad :/
16:20<Ammler>nicfer: should work
16:20<Ammler>and ignore the "corrupt" messages about...
16:22<@peter1138>"does opengrf.obg work" ...
16:22<stillunknown>Noldo: the music player?
16:23<Noldo>stillunknown: the forum user
16:23<@peter1138>One day, you'll all speak English properly... WHEN I RULE THE EARTH, MUWAHAHAHAHA
16:23<Ammler>:-)
16:23<Ammler>peter1138: I am thankful for that, really.
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16:28<TrueBrain>I wonder if peter1138 forgot his pill today ..
16:31-!-Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.148.92.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:31<@Belugas>naaa... he stole mine!
16:32-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: poef! nyahahaha]
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16:35<nckomodo><@peter1138> One day, you'll all speak English properly... WHEN I RULE THE EARTH, MUWAHAHAHAHA
16:35<nckomodo>You'd better get cracking, LHC switches on tomorrow
16:37<FauxFaux>No it doesn't.
16:37-!-grumbel [~grumbel@i577B9F8A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
16:38<FauxFaux>(http://synthesismagazine.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/large_hardon_collider.jpg nsfw)
16:38<nckomodo>http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=lhc-to-switch-on-early-tomorrow-ami-2008-09-09
16:39<nckomodo>I believe it does
16:39<@peter1138>nckomodo, I'm counting on the LHC to create the alternate universe where I am the ruler.
16:39<@Rubidium>it's already "on" for a very long time...
16:39<FauxFaux>My highly reliable source of some guy saying it doesn't says otheriwse!
16:39<nckomodo>peter1138 good plan
16:40<nckomodo>hahahah
16:40<nckomodo>"Seamen Willstain"'s comment
16:40<nckomodo>hell, his name alone is worth a laugh
16:41<@Belugas>alternate universe? alternate reality? I'm IN!
16:41<nckomodo>possibly a laugh n a half
16:41<ln>peter1138: a ruler with centimeters or inches?
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: one with less realism?
16:41<@Rubidium>with centipeters ofcourse!
16:42<@peter1138>Don't they have both still?
16:42<@Belugas>one that has less work@work for sure! none at all woulod be even better!
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>i think one of mine had
16:47<dih>Eddi|zuHause: where did you get "Fahrstraßensignale" from?
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>dih: from the old PBS patch, i think
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrstraße
16:48-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe18a.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>it's exactly what a PBS signal does, it forces the switches into position, so that a train cannot alter its route, plus some additional stuff to make sure that other trains cannot cross this path
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16:50<jinxjinxsen>hi
16:51-!-welshdragon2 [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
16:51<jinxjinxsen>what is the default startdate for a ottd game?
16:51-!-welshdragon [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:51<Zuu>1950 I think
16:52<Zuu>for "normal" climate at least.
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16:53<jinxjinxsen>the first vehicle is created in the year 1925 right?
16:54<jinxjinxsen>so why is it possible to start a game in 1600 or something else below 1925?
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16:55<@Rubidium>because one can write graphics replacements with vehicles for said ages
16:55<Zuu>I don't know, I think it depends on climate, what the first vehicle is. But you need to be close to 1950 unless you use some newGRFs with newer vehicles.
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>because newgrf sets can provide vehicles for that time
16:55<jinxjinxsen>oh, thank you
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>some newgrf sets provide horse carriages, or sailboats
16:56<jinxjinxsen>for a default ottd game without additional newgrf sets the default startdate should be 1925? :)
16:58<@Rubidium>no 1950
17:00<TrueBrain>hmm.. the good old days
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>in "the good old days", games began in 1930
17:00<TrueBrain>no, that version as not good
17:01<TrueBrain>the D was better
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>but there were more early engines
17:01<TrueBrain>I hate early
17:02<TrueBrain>now I want a good movie to watch
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17:03<@Rubidium>vantage point?
17:04<TrueBrain>seen it
17:04<@Rubidium>not the one with supplemental Japanese subtitles
17:04<Zuu>Try some sign language movies at youtube :)
17:04<TrueBrain>you should watch the movies about 'the end of the world'
17:04<TrueBrain>tomorrow the new thing in CERN startsup
17:04<TrueBrain>and 'many' people are protesting AGAIN that it will mean the end of the world
17:05<TrueBrain>(their search for the Higgs particle, that is)
17:05<TrueBrain>possible tiny blackholes will be created
17:05<TrueBrain>which WILL SLURP THE EARTH INTO IT, AND WE ALL DIE!
17:05<@Rubidium>too bad the protesters logic is flawed
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>is not!
17:05<TrueBrain>even more if they say: If you destroy the earth, I I I .. .I KILL YOU!
17:05<@Rubidium>the first run, i.e. the one tomorrow, will have less force than the ones conducted up till now
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>the world will really end this way!
17:06<TrueBrain>Rubidium: the ones up till now were not protons ;)
17:06<@Rubidium>the run in a month will be at full speed/energy
17:06<TrueBrain>(well, for CERN that is :p)
17:06<TrueBrain>if they abort a run, protons of high energy are ejected in a big block of lead
17:06<TrueBrain>which instant becomes radioactive (I still hope it becomes gold, but that is impossible, they told me :()
17:06<TrueBrain>now they also complain about that ..
17:07<TrueBrain>but the leaks in the France reactors of last month, that is all okay ...
17:07<TrueBrain>and the worst: people are going to court to stop CERN from doing the trail ...
17:07<TrueBrain>COME ON!
17:07<TrueBrain>trial trail ..
17:07<TrueBrain>well, pick one
17:07-!-Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
17:08<TrueBrain>Rubidium: ps: at full speed they won't be for a long time ;) They start with low energies, and will increase the energy to higher and higher levels over time .. will take a few months ;)
17:08<TrueBrain>but I get what you mean :)
17:08<ln>at what time does it start?
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17:09<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: and if the world would end this way, at least it will be quick
17:09<@Rubidium>a well, in a month they expect to be doing "high energy" collisions
17:09<TrueBrain>Rubidium: that is better phrased, yes :)
17:10<TrueBrain>as long as they don't loose vacuum, it should go pretty rapidly
17:11-!-FauxFaux was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [never do that again]
17:11*glx was reading backlog ;)
17:11<@Rubidium>did I miss something?
17:12<+glx>the link he posted
17:12<ln>you want to miss it.
17:13<+glx>indeed
17:13<welshdragon>indeed, that link was bad
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17:16<TrueBrain>What happens If i were in the CERN TUnnel during the particle flows and collisions?
17:16<TrueBrain>1. What happens if i were to stand in the 27km tunnel of CERN while the PROTONS are being fired in 1 direction?
17:16<TrueBrain>2. What happens if i were standing in the 27km tunnel of CERN while protons were being fired in both directION?
17:16<TrueBrain>What would happen to me?
17:16<TrueBrain>LOL!!!
17:16<TrueBrain>what a question ;)
17:16<eekee>haha
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17:16<TrueBrain>inside the tube: YOU DIE (vacuum)
17:16-!-KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-113-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
17:16<TrueBrain>well, you don't fit in the tube, but okay
17:16<TrueBrain>in the tunnels ... you don't want to know :p
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17:17-!-Leif_ is now known as Zuu
17:18<@Rubidium>it's pretty chilly in the tunnels I reckon
17:19<TrueBrain>enough helium to cool your brains, yes yes :p
17:19<eekee>other particle accelerators had tunnels accessible for maintainance
17:19<TrueBrain>but the tubes itself are only 1.9K
17:19<TrueBrain>so the tunnel should be slightly hotter :p
17:19<TrueBrain>eekee: only when offline ;)
17:19<eekee>of course :)
17:20<TrueBrain>when a supercondocter breaks, they shut down the thing, and someone is sent to repair it ;)
17:20<TrueBrain>(byebye vacuum .. hello 1 week waiting time :p)
17:20<@Rubidium>1 week?
17:20<@Rubidium>I read something much longer somewhere else
17:20<TrueBrain>dependng on the tube
17:20<TrueBrain>CERN LHC is 3 weeks or something?
17:20<TrueBrain>well, in that order :p
17:20<@Rubidium>they had to slowly bring it back to "room" temperature and such
17:20-!-Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:21<TrueBrain>but okay, if we don't speak again after 0730 UTC, ... there was a blackhole who slurped the earth ;)
17:21<eekee>mmhmm :)
17:22-!-Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd
17:23<SpComb>hmm, they do the next test at 0730 UTC?
17:23-!-welshdragon [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:23<TrueBrain>tomorrow, yes
17:23-!-Guest6125 [Zuu@c-1e3c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:23<SpComb>time to blow your life savings on hookers and poker
17:23-!-welshdragon2 is now known as welshdragon
17:24<TrueBrain>and then nothing happens ;)
17:24<welshdragon>SpComb, no, hookers and blackjack
17:25<ln>openttd with hookers
17:25<eekee>ahaha
17:25<eekee>I was wonderng what I would spend my life savings on. I couldn't decide, but then I don't have any life savings so...
17:25-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:26<eekee>actually there's always the theft option. I'd steal a supercar
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>when was the last apocalypse?
17:26<eekee>uhm... *thinks* :þ
17:26<TrueBrain>2000, 2001, 2002, 2004 ... which one do you want? :p
17:26<dih>what is STR_01D8_EZY_STREET
17:26<TrueBrain>(all related to NEW YEAR 'events')
17:26<ln>31th dec 1999 23:59:59
17:27<TrueBrain>weren't there a bunch of people 'rescued' from a cave, as they were hiding there for the end of time .. October this year?
17:27<ln>all systems failed, the earth was without electricity for months
17:27-!-NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/]
17:27<dih>"Ezy Street" have no idea what to do with that! :-S
17:28<Zuu>TrueBrain: Yea, I remember that cave too.
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>dih: it's in the music player
17:28-!-Swallow_ [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]]
17:29<dih>thanks Eddi|zuHause
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>dih: it's one of the playlist presets
17:30-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
17:32<ln>i wants a tv that can sync to 60 hz
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>isn't NTSC 60Hz?
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>probably need a 60Hz power supply to do that properly ;)
17:34<eekee>erm, multi-sync TVs have been common for a long time now, at least in Britain
17:36<TrueBrain>"The NTSC field refresh frequency was originally exactly 60 Hz in the black-and-white system, chosen because it matched the nominal 60 Hz frequency of alternating current power used in the United States."
17:37<eekee>syncing to the power supply hasn't been necessary for years
17:37<TrueBrain>eekee: neither are black and white systems still widely available ;)
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17:38<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't had a TV in years now...
17:39<TrueBrain>I have a 30" TV :)
17:39<TrueBrain>32" even ..
17:39<SpComb>I haven't had a non-mobile phone for three years
17:39<TrueBrain>Jerimiah40: please stop timing out :p
17:39<TrueBrain>SpComb: me neither :p
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>i have a 22" TFT, that must suffice for a while ;)
17:39<ln>Eddi|zuHause: many many PAL TVs can sync to 60 Hz, but not mine. and it isn't even directly related to how expensive the tv has been originally, even cheap ones can be capable.
17:39*SpComb still only has two 19" TFTs
17:39<eekee>I haven't had a non-mobile phone in over 10 years, and... nope, I've never had a TV
17:39<TrueBrain>I have a computer with 2 17" screens ... I either want 2 19", or 3 17" .. not sure yet ..
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>i have no use for a phone...
17:40<SpComb>I need to upgrade to 24" + 19" or something at some point
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>mobile or not...
17:40<ln>you never call anyone?
17:40<eekee>I have 1 17" and 1 20". Have tried to get a 15" working with them, but no joy
17:40<SpComb>people tend to usually call me, rather than the other way around
17:40<murray>http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/
17:41<TrueBrain>LOL @ murray
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: i hate asymmetry
17:41<eekee>:D
17:41<TrueBrain><!-- if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated
17:41<TrueBrain>please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund -->
17:41-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B80AB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!]
17:41<eekee>haha
17:41<SpComb>it uses an interesting metric to determine that
17:41<SpComb>if (!(typeof worldHasEnded == "undefined")) {
17:41<SpComb>document.write("YUP.");
17:42<eekee>I have different uses for different monitors. The 20" is my game & work space, & the 17" currently does chat & a few TTYS. I want to move chat to the 15" and use the 17" for web browsing & documentation
17:43<ln>everyone started telling how many inch they are after i only mentioned TV.
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>http://quegrande.org/countdown/
17:44<TrueBrain>why do people use youtube to just show you big pages of TEXT
17:44<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: the timer seems wrong :p
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: are they at least photographed on a wooden table?
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: yeah, looks strange
17:44<ln>Eddi|zuHause: "01 DAYS, 11 HOURS"??
17:45<TrueBrain>11the, 12 o'clock
17:45<TrueBrain>I think he was confused with the WTC :p
17:45<SpComb>huh, I thought it was tomorrow morning
17:45<ln>so did i
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>maybe they're counting the second run ;)
17:45<SpComb>what second run?
17:45*dih likes seeing TrueBrain in this channel ;-)
17:46<ln>the thing is i can't play Super Mario Lost Levels because my TV doesn't support 60 Hz. not funny.
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>"documentation"?? what is that?
17:46<TrueBrain>second run takes a while longer ;)
17:46<TrueBrain>but okay, some random date after the initial start .. :p
17:47<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> I think he was confused with the WTC :p <- but that was at 13 UTC, i think
17:48<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: 9/11?
17:48<TrueBrain>rings any bell?
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>i seem to remember it was 15 o'clock local time
17:48<TrueBrain>who cares about the time :p
17:48<TrueBrain>haha
17:48<TrueBrain>(sorry, misread you initially)
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>which i know because i wanted to watch star trek
17:48<TrueBrain>I know I shouldn't be doing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXzugu39pKM <- This is AMUZING (and very wrong .. if such event would happen, things would go slightly different :p)
17:49<Zuu>good night
17:49-!-Zuu [Zuu@c-1e3c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:50<SmatZ>TrueBrain: how would thing go?
17:50<SmatZ>s
17:50<@peter1138>. o O ( Why are you Europeans measuring monitor size in inches... )
17:51<+glx>only monitors, TVs are in centimeters
17:51<TrueBrain>peter1138: because I wanted it to make it easy for you
17:51<TrueBrain>glx: monitors here are mixed, both inch and centimers
17:51<TrueBrain>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r14bygDSz4 <- same thing, cool music :)
17:51*TrueBrain stops posting youtube links ;)
17:52<TrueBrain>SmatZ: more like: BOOM, SLURP
17:52<SmatZ>hehe
17:52<TrueBrain>anyway, I do hope a tiny blackhole is created
17:52<TrueBrain>would be nice if they can detect it
17:52<TrueBrain>finally puts that theory to a proven state :)
17:52<TrueBrain>(and a blackhole of that size is completely harmless :))
17:53<SmatZ>"We have proven our theeeooorrrryyyyyyyyy".... SLURP!
17:53<TrueBrain>the front of a train is more harmful ;)
17:53<TrueBrain>SmatZ: lol, would be cool, yes ;)
17:53<SmatZ>right, tiny blackholes appear and disappear everywhere (theory which name in English I don't know, but it is a solid one theory)
17:53<TrueBrain>SmatZ: String-theory ;)
17:53<TrueBrain>M-theory
17:53<SmatZ>yeah :)
17:53<TrueBrain>which ever one you favor :p
17:54<TrueBrain>(10 or 11, you name it :p)
17:54<TrueBrain>but this means we would CREATE them, which is slightly different ;)
17:54<SmatZ>:)
17:54<TrueBrain>people worry about very silly things
17:54<TrueBrain>it amuzes me :)
17:54<SmatZ>:-)
17:55<@peter1138>Yeah
17:55<TrueBrain>nobody cares if we freeze a particle to close to 0 K
17:55<@peter1138>Like, shit, it's bed time...
17:55<TrueBrain>(which theories state, if that happens, shit happens too)
17:55<TrueBrain>peter1138: enjoy your bed ;)
17:55-!-FauxFaux [~faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
17:56<SmatZ>:-)
17:57<TrueBrain>"Donkey Xote", is it me, or does it sound boring?
17:57<eekee>Boring!
17:58<TrueBrain>I-See-You.com <- that is a cool movie :)
17:58<TrueBrain>(and yes, that is the NAME of the movie, not their website (well, possible it is, but I wouldn't know)
17:59-!-Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
18:00<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> . o O ( Why are you Europeans measuring monitor size in inches... ) <- we don't, we measure them in "Zoll" ;)
18:00<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: one zoll, 2 zoll, 3 troll?
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, something like this ;)
18:01<SmatZ>:-D
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>interestingly, measuring sticks here are called "Zollstock", even though they didn't have a "Zoll" scale in decades...
18:02<TrueBrain>haha
18:02<TrueBrain>"duimstok", same problem
18:02-!-grumbel [~grumbel@i577B9F8A.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>what does that have to do with "Daumen" (thumb)?
18:03<TrueBrain>thumb-stick, freely translated
18:03<eekee>yardstick, only yards have only just falen out of favour
18:03<TrueBrain>but 'thumb' as messurement ;)
18:03<DaleStan>The original inch was the length of some portion of the king's thumb.
18:04<TrueBrain>('duim' is dutch for 'inch' I believe)
18:04<TrueBrain>I like 'centimeter' :)
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>there were at least as many measuring units in germany as there were individual states...
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>which were up to 200 at one point :p
18:05<ln>wasn't the original inch something like four grains of wheat placed next to each other.
18:05<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: and you know them all? :)
18:05<DaleStan>Only if the king wasn't available.
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18:29<Eddi|zuHause>"(Revision 7886)" ... i didn't even know i have that ancient patches around...
18:31<SmatZ>?
18:31<SmatZ>:)
18:31<SmatZ>what does the patch do?
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>change catchment area depending on station size
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>it's like 3 lines ;)
18:43<SmatZ>:)
18:43<ln>who are you smiling at?!?
18:55<SpComb>hmm, bad news
18:55<TrueBrain>the world comes to an end?
18:55<eekee>hmm?
18:57<SmatZ>NOPE.
18:57<eekee>damn. When's it going to end then?
18:58<SpComb>according to the slashdot summary, it's between 09:00 and 18:00
18:58<SpComb>although I can't figure out any reference for that
18:58<eekee>ha ok
18:59<TrueBrain>well, 7 hours remaining till the start-up ..
18:59<TrueBrain>tick tack
19:00<SpComb>but the cern page says that it'll be at 09:30
19:00<TrueBrain>webcast, cool
19:00<TrueBrain>SpComb: checktime-zone ;)
19:00<TrueBrain>0730 UTC
19:00<TrueBrain>0930 CEST
19:00<SpComb>"The first injection of a beam is scheduled for 9:30 CET"
19:01<TrueBrain>CET ... that is +0100
19:01<TrueBrain>short: somewhere tomorrow :p
19:01<ln>CET during summer is +0200
19:02<SpComb>since we're talking about the end of the world, they really should give times in UTC
19:02<SpComb>I mean, it's probably not going to be some kind of localized event
19:02<TrueBrain>I doubt they can give it an exact time :p
19:02-!-Zr40 [~zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
19:03<SmatZ>great, I will be sleeping by that time
19:03*SpComb goes to sleep
19:03<TrueBrain>night :)
19:03<SmatZ>I think it is fine to die while sleeping
19:03<SmatZ>nn SpComb
19:03<TrueBrain>talk to you tomorrow ;)
19:03<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: No, due to relativistic effects it'll be all times.
19:03<TrueBrain>lol @ Prof_Frink :)
19:03<SmatZ>!logs
19:03<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
19:04<SmatZ>it will never happen :-P
19:06-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B80AB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
19:06-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
19:08<+glx>no collision planed for tomorrow
19:08<+glx>will be in 4 weeks
19:10*SmatZ plans to enjoy (possibly) last 4 weeks of his life
19:10<TrueBrain>glx: now I won't sleep for the next 4 weeks :(
19:10<SmatZ>hmm leave school, build a house, plant a tree, give birth a child...
19:10<SmatZ>not time
19:10<SmatZ>-t
19:11<eekee>:J
19:11<TrueBrain>child part ...
19:11<TrueBrain>the rest is doable
19:11<TrueBrain>well, you would be able to give birth to a child
19:12<SmatZ>:)
19:12<TrueBrain>if you would help a female
19:12<TrueBrain>I doubt you can do it yourself :p
19:12<SmatZ>true true :)
19:12<SmatZ>but ...6 mounths at least
19:12<SmatZ>> 4 weeks
19:12<TrueBrain>and in 4 weeks you can try to make one like 56 times :p
19:12<TrueBrain>SmatZ: just go to any hospital and help a random female giving birth to a child
19:12<TrueBrain>can be done in 12 hours :p
19:13<SmatZ>if she hasn't been pregnant for 5 months already, what I doubt
19:13<SmatZ>hehehe
19:16<TrueBrain>whoho, I have a running Darwin8 install
19:16<TrueBrain>no good what that does ..
19:16<TrueBrain>but it runs! :p
19:16<eekee>:)
19:17<SmatZ>:-)
19:17<SmatZ>I can run, too
19:17<TrueBrain>bypassing the root login on Darwin8 is WAY too easy ...
19:17<TrueBrain>(F8 on bootup, -s, wait till it is done, 'sh /etc/rc', and you are done ...)
19:17<SmatZ>you dirty hacker :-P
19:17<TrueBrain>maybe I should try to make an OSX binary now ..
19:17<eekee>There's a quote (iirc) in the unix hater's handbook, to the effect that the flaws of unix are offset by the sense of achievement felt in getting it to work at all
19:18<TrueBrain>just no idea how ..
19:18<eekee>is SDL any good on OS X?
19:18<TrueBrain>Cocoa for OSX
19:18<TrueBrain>network doens't work
19:18<TrueBrain>makes sense
19:19<SmatZ>hmm wiki says 8.0 is 3,5 years old, 9.0 is 1 year old...
19:19<eekee>If you can build for SDL on Darwin (with SDL using X), maybe it would also work when SDL is using Cocoa
19:20<SmatZ>why did you install 8.0?
19:20<TrueBrain>eekee: why? Isn't Cocoa in Darwin? :p
19:20<TrueBrain>SmatZ: well, OS X 10.4 fails and 10.5 too
19:20<eekee>oh I assumed not
19:20<TrueBrain>so ... Rubidium thought it would be cool to use Darwin
19:20<SmatZ>10.4 fails? baad
19:20<TrueBrain>which after some slapping works :p
19:20<TrueBrain>SmatZ: well .. in a virtual env :p
19:20<TrueBrain>not really legal or anything
19:20<TrueBrain>but we had to try
19:20<SmatZ>I thought only 10.5 fails
19:21<SmatZ>:)
19:24<TrueBrain>I first need a method to get SVN into this Darwin VM ..
19:24<TrueBrain>not as simple as you might hope ..
19:25<eekee>what's the VM software?
19:25-!-Ridayah [~ridayah@12-208-15-67.client.mchsi.com] has joined #openttd
19:26<TrueBrain>VirtualBox
19:26<eekee>ah I don't know anything about that
19:27<eekee>in qemu with software networking, you could just set up networking normally & go, if you're not wanting to run any daemons
19:28<TrueBrain>if only I would have networking ..
19:28<TrueBrain>mount doesn't work as the linux mount .. that is annoying ..
19:28<eekee>o wierd
19:29<TrueBrain>permission denied
19:29<TrueBrain>lol
19:29<eekee>you're root?
19:29<TrueBrain>dah
19:29<eekee>hrm
19:30<TrueBrain>gha, found it
19:31<TrueBrain>so now I can make a iso with the files on it ..
19:37-!-Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:38<TrueBrain>no 'CoreServices' ...
19:38<TrueBrain>bah
19:38<TrueBrain>the configure passed!
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19:40<TrueBrain>if only I had any idea what I was doing .. ;)
19:41<eekee>:D
19:41<SmatZ>:-)
19:43<TrueBrain>I can produce a valid strgen
19:43<TrueBrain>that is something :p
19:43<TrueBrain>we need a configur eoption: --without-depcheck
19:43<TrueBrain>completely useless for the compile-farm, in any and all ways
19:44<eekee>it's not a normal autotools configure?
19:44<TrueBrain>far far far far from it
19:44<eekee>oh :(
19:44<TrueBrain>you ever seen the lines: 'checking for stdlib.h ... yes'
19:45<TrueBrain>no, it is not a :(
19:45<TrueBrain>it is a :) :) :)
19:45<eekee>o ok
19:45<TrueBrain>autotools configure takes around 10 times longer
19:45<TrueBrain>it checks EVERY aspect of your env (if it is sane and stuff)
19:45<TrueBrain>well .. if a user can't set up a sane build env
19:45<TrueBrain>fuck him
19:45<SmatZ>--without-makedepend won't help?
19:45<TrueBrain>SmatZ: 'makedepend' is a X11 tool which in fact speeds up dep-check with a big facto
19:45<TrueBrain>r
19:46<TrueBrain>without it .. it is even more slow
19:46<TrueBrain>for now we created a 'fake' makedepend on the compile-farms
19:46<TrueBrain>echo "# DO NOT DELETE"
19:46<TrueBrain>is all it does :p
19:46<eekee>hehe
19:47<TrueBrain>hmm .. I don't have Endian32_Swap
19:48<SmatZ>TrueBrain: well that was one of stupid uestions of mine...
19:48<SmatZ>--without-makedepend helps on sunos though :) it won't build without it
19:48<SmatZ>because of max_open_files, you know...
19:50<TrueBrain>completely different problem ;)
19:50<TrueBrain>oh no, not again a dep-check .. just becaus eI changed one silly file ...
19:50<TrueBrain>(of course a core-file)
19:51<+glx>stdafx.h?
19:51<SmatZ>as I said, sometimes I type stupid sentences / questions, sorry :-( (I hope not too often ;)
19:51<SmatZ>hello glx
19:52<TrueBrain>SmatZ: it isn't a stupid question; you just don't know how that part of OpenTTD works .. big deal
19:52<TrueBrain>glx: related ;) bitmath_func.h
19:52<TrueBrain>compiling again .. at the 'm'
19:52<+glx>english.txt is a nice one too
19:52<TrueBrain>qtmidi fails .. not unexpected
19:52<TrueBrain>I miss like ALL libraries :p
19:53<TrueBrain>like QuickTime
19:54<eekee>why would ottd need quicktime?
19:54<TrueBrain>OSX requirement
19:54<TrueBrain>for music
19:55<eekee>oh :o
19:55-!-Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
19:56<TrueBrain>problem with Darwin, it only contains the open source parts of OSX (if I understand it correctly)
19:56<eekee>yeah
19:57-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Zzz]
19:57<eekee>on a totally different matter, sometimes with PBS I need to make a peice of track one-way without putting signals on it.
19:58<SmatZ>TrueBrain: that's the problem... I (think) I know how makedepend works, but that fact doesn't me stop from asking stupid questions... just forget it :-)
19:58<TrueBrain>SmatZ: I 10 times rather have you asking silly questions, then you never asking them at all :p
19:58<SmatZ>ok :-)
19:58<TrueBrain>now you know what makedepend does, and what --without-makedepend does :p
19:58*SmatZ hides
20:00-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd
20:02*SmatZ notes: better not ask stupid question or you may look like you don't know anything :-P
20:03<TrueBrain>SmatZ: I am so happy you didn't know me since the start .. boy oh boy, the questions I asked .. :p
20:03<SmatZ>:-)
20:04<SmatZ>it's fine to ask questions, when you don't know something :)
20:04<SmatZ>but it's bad to ask even when you know that :-D
20:04<SmatZ>but you look quite experienced nowadays ;-)
20:05<SmatZ>TrueBrain, the network-man
20:05<SmatZ>and ssh-man and everything :)
20:05<SmatZ>-man
20:05<ln>TrueBrain: what are you trying to achieve by compiling on Darwin?
20:05<TrueBrain>bah, why is there no documentation about Darwin and how to get it to compile sane things :p
20:06<TrueBrain>SmatZ: well, if that is all you remember me for.. :( :p
20:06<TrueBrain>(hehehe :))
20:07<SmatZ>of course, there is the humanity-part of you :)
20:07<TrueBrain>:p
20:07<SmatZ>like dancing, girls, climbing :)
20:07<SmatZ>maybe 'girls' coming first ;)
20:07-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...]
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20:08<TrueBrain>hehe
20:08<TrueBrain>fair enough
20:08-!-Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd
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20:17<SmatZ>hmm there are 98 people there
20:18<SmatZ>4% of them should be gay
20:18*FauxFaux licks SmatZ.
20:18<TrueBrain>please all raise your hands if you are gay
20:18<SmatZ>:-)
20:18<TrueBrain>SmatZ: and how many of them should be female?
20:18*SmatZ feels amused :)
20:18<SmatZ>TrueBrain: ~49
20:18<TrueBrain>I give up on darwin, I let Rubidium figure thatone out :p
20:18<TrueBrain>SmatZ: stats fail there
20:18-!-[alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
20:18<TrueBrain>welcome [alt]buster
20:19<TrueBrain>http://88.198.60.17/images/hr-images-best/hr_milan_van_bruggen_02.jpg <- cool :)
20:19<SmatZ>I think gays play OTTD the same way as other boys do...
20:19-!-glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:19<SmatZ>girls don't though :-/
20:19-!-glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
20:19-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
20:19<FauxFaux>I thought it was more than 4%, especially out side of christianland^Wthe us.
20:19<TrueBrain>http://88.198.60.17/images/hr-images-best/HR1-RayPham.gif
20:20<SmatZ>mm true :)
20:20<SmatZ>maybe there are 4% of gays and 20% of men who don't care...
20:21*SmatZ stops this discussion because he is afraid of being kicked :)
20:21<SmatZ>I would have kicked myself already
20:21<TrueBrain>SmatZ: you will only be kicked by gay people
20:21<+glx>no risks Bjarni is not here ;)
20:21<TrueBrain>or the 20% who don't care
20:21<SmatZ>:-D
20:21<TrueBrain>ah, our 4% :p
20:22<FauxFaux>No, the kicking would be for claiming that, as there're mostly programmers here, it's probably more likely to be 80% 15-30 year old virgins. :p
20:22<FauxFaux>(o/)
20:22<SmatZ>even worse :)
20:22<TrueBrain>so 80% in here is a virgin
20:22<TrueBrain>all raise hands if you are
20:22<TrueBrain>(well, that per definition only gives a max of 10%, as the rest is never alive)
20:22*FauxFaux -> bed, nn.
20:22<TrueBrain>night FauxFaux
20:22<SmatZ>nnFF
20:22<FauxFaux>(Cunningly avoiding the question)
20:22<TrueBrain>I wonder why this channel as around 100 people for ages now
20:22<eekee>define virgin
20:23<TrueBrain>eekee: so you are, thank you for that answer
20:23<FauxFaux>It happens in lots of channels.
20:23<SmatZ>:^)
20:23<eekee>haha
20:23<TrueBrain>(really, if you need to ask .. you are one)
20:23<TrueBrain>it is like: do you drive a car? Which one?
20:23<TrueBrain>I think I should get some sleep or something .. hmm ..
20:23<SmatZ>eekee: never had penis in a vagina/anus of another human/animal (except mother during birth)
20:24<TrueBrain>SmatZ: LOL!!! That .. kind of covers most of it :p
20:24<TrueBrain>just I would have put mouth there too
20:24<eekee>I duno. Certain things that aren't technically sex can be pretty damn amazing. :þ
20:24<+glx>"animal" <-- weird
20:24<FauxFaux>Lies, other oraphices count too. *runs*
20:24<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: GO TO BED
20:24<eekee>see, there is disagreement :D
20:24<TrueBrain>ear
20:24<FauxFaux>But I don't have to be at work for literally 6 and a half hours!
20:24<TrueBrain>nose
20:24-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:24-!-[alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
20:25<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: so just stay up
20:25<FauxFaux>Heads, shoulders, knees and toes, knees and toes.
20:25<TrueBrain>I tried that once ... was kind of dangerous
20:25<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: there are no holes in shoulders
20:25<eekee>I imagine
20:25<TrueBrain>well, not without a gun anyway
20:25<SmatZ>:-D @ TrueBrain & glx :)
20:25<FauxFaux><6h a night for a couple of weeks is roughly the same effect.
20:25<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: I am doing that for 3 months now
20:25<TrueBrain>I just notice I have a hard time concentrating
20:26<el_En>simpler definition: "had the thing inside something that's alive"
20:26<TrueBrain>but .. who notice that?
20:26<SmatZ>[02:25:12] <TrueBrain> I tried that once ... was kind of dangerous <= are you talking about that "animal" part?
20:26<TrueBrain>el_En: 'the thing'? The hand that is walking without body?
20:26<eekee>*snort* XD;;;
20:26<TrueBrain>SmatZ: no, about the not sleeping and going to work
20:26<SmatZ>ahh ok :)
20:26<TrueBrain>trying to drive a car after being up for 48 hours is ..
20:26<TrueBrain>well
20:26<TrueBrain>dangerous
20:27<TrueBrain>you tend to miss ... a few km of road now and then ..
20:27<TrueBrain>(one moment that truck is 4 km away ... next moment you are right behind it)
20:27<eekee>aye...
20:27<TrueBrain>not advisable :)
20:27<SmatZ>:)
20:27<TrueBrain>well, at least I then know I am a good driver ... my eyes were open while sleeping, and I woke up as I needed to change lanes :p
20:28<TrueBrain>(that requires head movement, that I couldn't do while sleeping, I tihnk .. :p)
20:28<eekee>haha
20:28<TrueBrain>nah, I can make a joke of that, but it was not one of my proudest moments .. and I truly hope you guys never have such .. problem :)
20:28<SmatZ>well I had and I survived :-)
20:29<TrueBrain>haha, obviously :)
20:29<SmatZ>I was going behind those red lights of the car before me
20:29<eekee>I have regular trouble sleeping. I don't have to drive regularly though
20:30<SmatZ>later I discovered I am at absolutely different place I wanted to be
20:30<eekee>oh losing yourself in the tail-lights of the car in front is normal, I think
20:30<SmatZ>I was just going behind him, no metter where he drove
20:30<SmatZ>:)
20:30<eekee>one of my friends says one day he's going to accidentally kill himself by following a suicidal driver off a cliff
20:30<TrueBrain>SmatZ: who wrote that ... if you have no clue where to go in a foreign city, follow the person in front of you
20:30<TrueBrain>mostly works for me
20:31<SmatZ>hehe
20:31<TrueBrain>(if I have no clue where to go, I truly follow to car in front of me .. mostly it turns out okay)
20:31<SmatZ>:-D @ eekee :)
20:31<TrueBrain>sometimes I am in some sub-urb .. but okay :p
20:31<eekee>I did that in Brighton once. Found several shortcuts then found myself in a dead end
20:31<TrueBrain>eekee: hehe, nice motto ;)
20:31<eekee>hehe
20:31<el_En>sounds like everyone on this channel should have their driving licenses suspended.
20:31<SmatZ>:-)
20:31<TrueBrain>lol @ el_En
20:31<SmatZ>!logs
20:31<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
20:31<TrueBrain>I once drove in a new part of a town, following the car in front of me
20:31<TrueBrain>the car stop
20:32<TrueBrain>person steps out
20:32<TrueBrain>I like: IIEEEKK
20:32<TrueBrain>open window
20:32<TrueBrain>he: "do you know wher eI can find blabla?"
20:32<TrueBrain>I: "haha, I was hoping you knew!"
20:32<TrueBrain>the tactic kind of fails if the person in front of you is lost too :p
20:32<SmatZ>anyway, nn... I want to be up when the large hadron collider colapses :)
20:32<TrueBrain>SmatZ: well, I hope to speak to you tomorrow
20:32<TrueBrain>and that we didn't all disapeared in some black hole
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20:32<eekee>The idea of following fandom cars crops up in Douglass Adams The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul, where one of the leading characters finds that he rarely ends up where he wants to be but often where he needs to be
20:32<TrueBrain>if we do, I suggest to look to your left
20:33<eekee>*random
20:33<TrueBrain>I read the view is marvelous!
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20:33<TrueBrain>eekee: Douglas, yes, he wrote that :) Tnx!
20:33<eekee>yw ^^
20:33<eekee>I love that book
20:33<TrueBrain>I knew it had to be him or HG Wells
20:33<TrueBrain>but the latter most likely never had a car
20:33<el_En>Dirk Gently
20:33<TrueBrain>so .. well .. stupid of me :p
20:33<eekee>ah -- yeah
20:33<eekee>oh, no
20:34<TrueBrain>I tihnk I should read THHGTG again soon ..
20:34<TrueBrain>"I appoligies for the inconvenience"
20:34<eekee>:D
20:35<TrueBrain>"I feel so depressed"
20:35<eekee>Squornshellous Zeta
20:35<TrueBrain>it really sucks Adams died ...
20:36<eekee>yeah. I think it might have been preventable too
20:37<TrueBrain>CTRL+TAB doesn't do what I expect it to do in Firefox 3.1 :(
20:39<eekee>There's an inherited condition where the connective tissue is very weak. People affected tend to be very tall, and to have their sternum angle outwards, so their chest has a point at the base of the sternum. Most of the body is ok with this condition, but the aorta slowly stretches until it bursts around the age of 40-45, unless reinforced
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20:53<TrueBrain>oh well, bed time
20:53<TrueBrain>ngiht all
20:55<eekee>night
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21:08<eekee>is there an option to allow crossing tunnels?
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21:22<+glx>eekee: yes it's a cheat
21:23<eekee>ah ok
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22:11<@Belugas>Pikkaa, if i'm not too blind, id' say that during callback 17, use parent scope, access town var 80 and it will be the same as the industry counterpart
22:11<@Belugas>if that can make sens...
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22:19<Phantasm>Belugas: How is the fixing going on?
22:20<@Belugas>working on it
22:20<@Belugas>fucking boring stuff
22:20<Phantasm>Heh.
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23:07<Pikkaa>erm, yeah belugas. but that still doesn't help with houses. :)
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 10 00:00:53 2008