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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-09-11

---Logopened Thu Sep 11 00:00:29 2008
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06:04<Tim>Nobody said anything for about 2 hours now Oo
06:05<Forked>and you ruined that :p
06:05<Tim>Hehe
06:05<TrueBrain>yeah, Tim, boohoo :( We were almost in the guiniss book of records
06:05<Tim>hrhr *evilgrin*
06:10<@peter1138>Do I have someone on ignore?
06:10<@peter1138>Cos I don't see anything said for 9 hours...
06:11<Tim>dunno, i only joined 2 hours ago
06:11<TrueBrain>peter1138: I also have my 'burp' as latest entry :p
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06:15<Tim>Hm, since we have no topic, what do you think about http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=727290#p727290 ?
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07:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14287 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_station.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: AIStation::SetName() always renamed station 0 .. oopsie ;)
07:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14288 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_vehicle.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: AIVehicle::GetLocation() wasn't updated in air for aircrafts (Yexo, based on patch FS#2280)
07:10<FauxFaux>Heh.
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07:37<guru3>anyone have an idea why with array[2][2]; i can't do array[0] = {1, 2}; ?
07:38<jni>you can't use { } and use with assignment, only with init
07:39<guru3>damn
07:39<ln>because C is not PHP.
07:39<guru3>extra lines of code then :<
07:39<Gekz>lol
07:39<Gekz>I love javascript
07:40<Gekz>it's so terrible, try and initialise a multidimensional array
07:40<Gekz>you must loop.
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07:50<ln>welshdra-gone: not interesting
07:52<Doorslammer>Ha haa, wordplay :P
08:02<guru3>bloody hell... does IMG_Load always get the image upside down?
08:05<FauxFaux>boost::assign. ¬_¬
08:05<guru3>referencing from the wrong corner... go figure
08:05*guru3 slaps the pyopengl devs
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08:58-!-ServerMode/#openttd [+vooo tokai Belugas peter1138 DorpsGek] by charon.oftc.net
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08:58-!-ServerMode/#openttd [+oov Rubidium orudge orudge] by charon.oftc.net
09:00<@peter1138>So...
09:03<planetmaker>I can confirm Ammler's observation. Just tested it on my installation with an empty sample.cat of the same size as the original sample.cat
09:03<planetmaker>I get the same newgrf error, too and desync also immediately
09:04<@peter1138>Do you have multiple original data files?
09:05<planetmaker>peter1138: no.
09:05<@peter1138>It might be switching from Windows to DOS or vice versa.
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09:07<dih>planetmaker: empty sample.cat should not have the same size as the original sample.cat :-P
09:07<planetmaker>That I don't know. The only debug output I get is a desync one. The only difference is in installation between the two start-ups of OpenTTD is sample.cat
09:07<planetmaker>dih: it has. spaces and line breaks. I made sure :)
09:07<dih>that is not empty then :-)
09:07<planetmaker>well, yes :P
09:07<@peter1138>You generally get more debugging output if you turn debuggin on.
09:07<planetmaker>:) I'll try
09:08<@peter1138>Hmm, 552MB copied.
09:08<planetmaker>peter1138: which debugging parameters would you like me to set?
09:08<dih>-d 9
09:08<dih>:-P
09:09<@peter1138>That'll do.
09:10<SmatZ>I can't reproduce it
09:10<SmatZ>but maybe that's because I have both DOS and WIN grf files...
09:10<dih>SmatZ: you wanna go swim?
09:11<dih>thought perhaps you'd like to build a pool?
09:11<SmatZ>:-)
09:11<SmatZ>I may try :)
09:12<dih>hihi
09:12*dih hugs SmatZ
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09:15-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
09:15<@peter1138>Right, I have a disk image, from using dd...
09:15<@peter1138>How do I mount it?
09:15<planetmaker>hm. openttd -d 9 > output.log leaves an empty log file. An idea how to get the debug output into a file then?
09:16<@peter1138>Use &>
09:16<Gekz>&>
09:16<Gekz>peter1138: damn you
09:17<penfold>:)
09:17<+glx>planetmaker: try 2>
09:17<planetmaker>neither worked :S
09:18<+glx>windows?
09:18<planetmaker>everything is still shown in my terminal. And it's history is too short. MacOS 10.4
09:18<Gekz>X.4
09:18<Gekz>lol
09:18<+glx>> log 2>&1
09:19<eekee>10.4 uses ancient bash
09:19<planetmaker>glx^^?
09:19<eekee>glx's way should work
09:19<planetmaker>openttd -d 9 > logfile.log >> & 1
09:19<+glx>2>&1
09:19<+glx>redirect error to std
09:20<TinoDidriksen> >> is append. Can't both > and >> in the same command.
09:21<TinoDidriksen>Ah, yeah, 2> does not mean two >'s...
09:23<planetmaker>err... I guess, I have to ask for the complete command line... sorry :S
09:23<+glx>openttd -d 9 > logfile.log 2>&1
09:24<+glx>but "openttd -d 9 2>logfile.log" should be enough
09:25<planetmaker>the first line (I tried it before) has NO effect. Nothing's started. No output. Very strange.
09:25<+glx>no output is normal as everything is redirected to the file
09:25<planetmaker>well. But OpenTTD isn't started.
09:26<planetmaker>!password
09:26-!-planetmaker was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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09:28<planetmaker>:D
09:28<planetmaker>ok... right 3.3 MB log file...
09:29<planetmaker>g2g quickly. will post later
09:35<dih>(./openttd 2>&1) > logfile
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09:55<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> Right, I have a disk image, from using dd... <- it'd be easier if you had a partition image
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>but generally, loop devices will get the job done
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09:59<Hassan>I am experiencing problems with getting the server list from the master server in the ingame multyplayer system
10:00<Hassan>It just doesn't show up anything...
10:00<dih>hello to you too Hassan
10:00<Hassan>hi ;)
10:00<dih>i am fine, and how are you?
10:00<Hassan>well no so well :P
10:00<dih>shame
10:01<dih>i would have been better too, had you not just blasted in without greeting etc ;-)
10:01<dih>hehe
10:01<dih>(uh i enjoyed that, thank you Hassan)
10:01<dih>:-P
10:01<Hassan>I will remember that :
10:01<dih>hihi
10:01<dih>did you try visiting servers.openttd.org ?
10:01<Hassan>yes I have
10:01<Hassan>all servers are listed, and according to that page
10:02<Hassan>no problems should be encountered :D
10:02<dih>you can join servers over the console, command: connect ip:port#company
10:02<dih>where company = 255 means spectator
10:03<Hassan>Lets try that one :)
10:03<dih>where when you start the game from the console
10:03<SmatZ>Hassan: what OTTD version are you using?
10:03<Hassan>0.6.2
10:03<dih>-n <ip>:<port>#<company>
10:04<Hassan>The console use has succeeded
10:05<dih>enjoy the game
10:05<dih>you are welcome
10:06<Hassan>but i manually did put in the ip of the server in the server list
10:06<Hassan>and it showed me an offline server
10:06<Hassan>might some setting of mine be incorrect?
10:07<yorick>your internet connection.
10:07<yorick>mabe 3979 and 3978 are being blocked?
10:08<Hassan>Hmm good point.. But then it shouldn't have connected to the server I joined now...
10:09<yorick>udp?
10:10<+glx>the dropdown is on internet or lan ?
10:10<Hassan>I am unfamiliar with that word
10:10<Hassan>dropdown?
10:10<+glx>on top of the server list
10:10<Hassan>internet of course
10:10<Hassan>:)
10:11<yorick>hm, I manage a packet loss of 33/157
10:12<yorick>oh, that's the packets that are not lost
10:12<Hassan>are you experiencing problems also?
10:13<yorick>no, it works the second time
10:14<yorick>after I fixed the query script :-p
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10:16<dih>nessi :-D
10:16<welshdragon>ln, i have used welshdra-gone for a while now, it suprises me you only just noticed it
10:17<yorick>ln?
10:17<welshdragon>* You are now known as welshdra-gone
10:17<welshdragon><ln> welshdra-gone: not interesting
10:18<welshdragon>i was replying to his comment
10:18<yorick>I don't remember having ln on ignore
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>you just fail.
10:18*yorick unignores ln
10:19-!-Tim [~Tim@p5B37D028.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:20<ln>welshdragon: the point was that it's not interesting that you are gone, therefore don't use away nicks.
10:20<dih>just set /away ;-)
10:20<dih>that's all you need
10:20<ln>indeed
10:20<dih>good clients display that anyway
10:20<ln>and anyone doing a /whois on you sees that you are away.
10:21<dih>+ you can set auto reply to private messages when you actually are gone
10:21<dih>so anybody trying to contact you in private can see
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10:21<Hassan>dih, thx for helping me anyway :D
10:21<Hassan>I will reroute some ports I think
10:21<dih>and anybody contacting you in public will quickly notice you are gone, either by the long pause, or by the client side displayed away statys
10:21<Hassan>Bey bey dih (This good enough for you) :P
10:21<welshdragon>dih and ln i have used that for at least 3 months, ask Prof_Frink, ill remember in future to /part before i set that nick in future
10:22<dih>Hassan: :-)
10:22-!-Hassan [~Hassan@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
10:22<dih>where are you _that_ important that others need to know?
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10:22<dih>seriously, it's seldom anything other than trying to appear important or funny
10:23<dih>well - that suits me too :-)
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10:40<Ammler>welshdragon: the problem is, if you like to ignore "rename" spam, you also have to ignore join/parts, at least on my client....
10:42<Ammler>(away nick=rename spam) ;-)
10:44<welshdragon>when are the new zoom levels going to be implemented?
10:44<hylje>/ignore * NICKS -pattern "(afk|zzz|off)"
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>welshdragon: they don't
10:44<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause, oh?
10:45<welshdragon>is http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/32bpp_graphics_development_tracker_(extra_zoom)not being used anymore?
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>it's been decided that at most one further zoom level might come. anything more than that won't fit the game style (especially vehicle movement)
10:46<welshdragon>aah
10:47<welshdragon>they look very simcityesque
10:47<eekee>15:30:35 < ib> lalo, 42 is the answer to everything except "how many make jobs do you want?"
10:49-!-nckomodo [~nckomodo@scottb.carrollwater-wifi0.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:56<@Rubidium>isn't that the adviced number of jobs for a 19.5 core CPU?
10:57<Gekz>you cant have half a core
10:57<TrueBrain>give me a saw and I show you
10:57-!-Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-14-249.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit []
10:58<@Rubidium>Gekz: but a Celeron is half a core of a Pentium 4
10:58<Gekz>it's not half a core at all.
10:58<TrueBrain>get a saw and yuo can give Gekz a half of a core
10:58<Gekz>RUN, NON-NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKERS
10:59-!-nckomodo [~nckomodo@scottb.carrollwater-wifi0.amplex.net] has joined #openttd
10:59<TrueBrain>Gekz: why are you stil lhere?
10:59<Gekz>TrueBrain: you have Romance language tendencies
10:59<Gekz>but your native language isnt a romance language
10:59<Gekz>it's quite amusing :)
10:59<TrueBrain>me caesar!
10:59<@Belugas>hoo... Gekz likes romance :)
10:59<TrueBrain>you nero
10:59<TrueBrain>you burn
11:00*Belugas sends flowers and poems to Gekz :D
11:00<Gekz>I have a girlfriend Belugas
11:00<Gekz>I dont need you anymore
11:00<Gekz>:>
11:00<TrueBrain>Gekz: and he has a wife, so?
11:00<Gekz>my point was proven in the second line
11:00<dih>a reason, no hinderance.
11:01<Gekz>well, anywho
11:01<Gekz>good night :)
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>nero doesn't burn here... k3b does ;)
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>am i the only person that did not get what he meant with "romance language tendencies"?
11:04<@peter1138>Half a core of a Pentium 4? But a Pentium 4 only had one core... Or maybe that's the point.
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11:06<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I tried to ignore it :p
11:07<@Rubidium>peter1138: a Celeron is a P4 with broken caches etc. disabled, basically they're failed P4s
11:07<Brianetta>With the possible exception of the mobile version
11:08<Brianetta>which is a P4 where they did without all those caches to make the thing small
11:08<@Belugas>i guess he meant romane, instead
11:08<@Belugas>like coming from latin
11:08<Brianetta>Romance
11:09*Belugas googles
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>i'd have said "romanic", but still, the statement makes absolutely no sense
11:09<Brianetta>Romance means "of Rome" and in linguistics refers to languages including French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and Romanian
11:10<@Belugas>mmh
11:10<@Belugas>right
11:10<Brianetta>In western Europe, the other languages tend to be Germanic ones, including German, English, Dutch and all those scandie ones.
11:10<@Belugas>i have to agree with Eddi|zuHause, "Romanic" sounds better
11:10<@peter1138>It's not the right word, though.
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11:11<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: yes, i know language classifications, but that does not give any further sense to the statement
11:12<Brianetta>Probably referring to that post you made on the forum
11:12<Brianetta>about capitalisation
11:12<Brianetta>to be perfectly honest, he didn't make a lot of sense to me, either
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>how does that fit in?
11:13<Brianetta>At a guess
11:13-!-Guest6419 [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:13<Brianetta>Latin, being the Romance progenitor, only had capitals for carved legibility.
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11:14<Eddi|zuHause>the german capitalisation rules are not that old...
11:15<Brianetta>They're also brilliant
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>german bible translator Martin Luther is said to have made that rule widespread
11:15<Brianetta>Capitalising all Nouns makes it so much easier to parse a Sentence
11:16<Brianetta>Time flies like an Arrow
11:16<Brianetta>Fruit Flies like a Banana
11:16-!-extraPrima [~extraPrim@p57B21767.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
11:16<extraPrima>hallo
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>all objects that were created by god got one capital letter
11:16<@Belugas>Like Herod
11:16<Kloopy>Big Breasts?
11:16<@peter1138>I hate him!
11:17<Kloopy>You hate Herod? He probably would say the same thing about you. :(
11:17-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B756CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:17<extraPrima>i need some nice mods for citys bridges and trian stations
11:17<Brianetta>Tschüß, Eddi....
11:17<@peter1138>He would.
11:17-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B756CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:17<extraPrima>some that look a kind of "real"
11:17<Ammler>extraPrima: ask Belugas
11:17<extraPrima>can you show me some?
11:18<Brianetta>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/
11:18<@peter1138>http://grfcrawler.tt...
11:18<@peter1138>Damn you :o
11:18<Brianetta>That's a great place
11:18<@peter1138>Belugas, when are you seeing them?
11:19<Aylomen>Try total bridge renewal set, if you want bridges
11:19<extraPrima>ok
11:19<@Belugas>peter1138 : 23 of september :)
11:19<@peter1138>:D
11:20<@Belugas>tick tock time marches on and on!
11:20<@Belugas>and guess who's next on the list?
11:20<@Belugas>NIN!
11:21<extraPrima>does dbset work together with other sets such as total brigde renewal
11:21<extraPrima>?
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>yes
11:21<@peter1138>Hehe
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>just using several sets of the same kind will get you in trouble, like two trainsets, or two roadsets
11:22<extraPrima>ok
11:22<extraPrima>now a have new trains and new bridges
11:22<extraPrima>just need nice cities
11:22*peter1138 puts CODY on.
11:23*Belugas follows :)
11:23<Aylomen>Total Town replacement or that American Town Set, don't know, waht it is called
11:24<Aylomen>but look at grf crawler, there are many nice sets
11:24*Belugas fails to follow
11:24<@Belugas>damned song's at home :(
11:24<@Belugas>grrr
11:24<extraPrima>thats the prob
11:24<extraPrima>there are too many
11:24<extraPrima>:D
11:24<Aylomen>try them all ;)
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>two house sets should be fine
11:24<@Belugas>but one at a time...
11:25<@Belugas>in order to spot the difference ;)
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>two station sets are definitely fine
11:25<@Belugas>AND NOT MIDGAME!
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>two industry sets are only fine if they are designed to cooperate with each other
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11:25<Aylomen>station sets I always have all on
11:27<@Belugas>damned... CODY is not even on my cell phone
11:27<@Belugas>boo!!
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>there are still the intartubes
11:29<extraPrima>ok
11:29<extraPrima>I'll try some
11:30<Aylomen>or just download the openttdcoop grf package and you have the most important ones
11:30<extraPrima>link pls
11:30<Aylomen>öhm...
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>www.gidf.de
11:31<Aylomen>www.openttdcoop.org
11:31<extraPrima>t h x
11:37-!-Chris82 [~chatzilla@p579E1CF2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:37<Chris82>good evening guys :)
11:37<Chris82>I just got the latest trunk revision via SVN (r14289) and I have a strange problem with it
11:38<@peter1138>It has a green lump on the end of its penis?
11:38<Chris82>when I try to start the game it says "Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD."
11:38<dih>Chris82: hi
11:38<@Belugas>did it worked before?
11:38<dih>long long long long time no see
11:38<yorick>try converting your obg files to windows/linux
11:39<yorick>but svn should have done that...
11:39<Chris82>hehe yep
11:39<Chris82>well it worked with ChrisIN-R2 which is 11xxx something
11:39<Chris82>haven't tried any newer versions except that buggy Russian patch pack and that worked too
11:39<Chris82>but latest trunk doesn't work
11:40<yorick>is it a svn checkout?
11:40<Chris82>yes
11:40<Chris82>what are these .obg files?
11:40<Chris82>I copied the three .grfs from the data dir to my openttd dir
11:40-!-sunkan [sunkan@sunkan.bsnet.se] has joined #openttd
11:41<Chris82>lol ok didn't figure I have to copy the .obg files to the openttd/data dir as well :p
11:41<Chris82>now it works :D
11:41<yorick>:->
11:41-!-Tim [~Tim@p5B37D028.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:43<Chris82>just wanted to compile a small patchpack that's multiplayer save because the last ChrisIN doesn't have all the nice features from current trunk :D
11:43-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
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11:43<yorick>but trunk doesn't have all the nice features from ChrisIN
11:44<@Bjarni>however the trunk is somewhat more bugfree
11:44<ln>B!
11:44<@Bjarni>or at least known bugs are more likely to be fixed
11:44<yorick>J!
11:44<Chris82>yorick: thus the patchpack
11:45<Chris82>I will just add daylength, distant join stations and stuff I use really frequently
11:45<yorick>cargodest.
11:45<Chris82>I am just coding a new daypatch seems to have gotten much simpler with current trunk
11:45<ln>Bjarni: there's some issue with OS X version crashing, and Rubidium suspected it is because of the locale detection code. his evidence was that Bjarni has messed with the code.
11:45<@Bjarni>:s
11:45<ln>(see the logs to confirm that)
11:46<@Bjarni>is there a bug report somewhere?
11:47<Chris82>would it be bad to replace "Money GetDisplayRunningCost() const { return (this->GetRunningCost() >> 8); }" in vehicle_base.h line 440 with something along "Money GetDisplayRunningCost() const { return (this->GetRunningCost() >> 8) * _veh_runcost_factor; }"
11:47<Chris82>this way I could adjust the gui with just one line :)
11:47<yorick>try ;)
11:47<Chris82>at least if that does what I think it does *g*
11:47<ln>Bjarni: dunno. and indeed there was no other indication that it would be related to locale detection in any way.
11:52<@peter1138>...
11:52<@peter1138>Copy files to run OpenTTD? It all works in-place for me...
11:54<@peter1138>Bjarni, the issue was compile-time detection of OS X version... which clearly can't work if a binary is to work on 10.3 up to 10.5...
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12:02<@peter1138>MAY NOTHING BUT HAPPINESS COME THROUGH YOUR DOOR
12:02<yorick>hm, my happiness just left, and now nothing else can come in
12:02*yorick feels empty
12:02*SmatZ fills yorick
12:02<@peter1138>:o
12:03<@peter1138>Get a room for that.
12:03<Chris82>was there a wiki somewhere what the different patch settings like NC, MS, 0 etc. mean?
12:03<SmatZ>:)
12:03<yorick>I can't even leave the room
12:03<yorick>Chris82: yes, there is
12:04<yorick>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Patches/AddPatchOption
12:04<yorick>NC = without thousand separators
12:04<yorick>MS = multi-string
12:05<Chris82>thx
12:05<yorick>NO = network_only
12:05<yorick>CR = currency
12:05<yorick>N = no network sync
12:05<yorick>S = no save or network sync
12:05<yorick>C = don't save in openttd.cfg
12:05<yorick>0 = default
12:06<@peter1138>But we don't have patches any more ;)
12:06<yorick>lets rename the article
12:06<yorick>or page
12:07<@peter1138>OH! HOW THE DOGS STACK UP
12:07<yorick>they cant go through my door either
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>let's rename everything back to "patches" :p
12:08<@peter1138>Yeah, I was used to patches...
12:08<Chris82>uhm how is it called now if not patch?
12:08<Chris82>Add-On or Plug-In ?
12:08<yorick>advanced setting
12:08<Chris82>ahhh ;)
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>they were never patches at all
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>same as they are not addons or plugins
12:09<Chris82>I think you can call them all that, it's just not a bugfix :D
12:09<yorick>lets name them something nonexistant, a patting or something
12:09<hylje>a pony
12:09<FauxFaux>:D
12:10<yorick>FAUX!
12:10<yorick>or a satch
12:11<yorick>satch is shorther than patch
12:13<SpComb>is http://arwen.fvfischer.de:8000 still the most recent cargo-dest?
12:13<+glx>no
12:14<SpComb>http://hg.openttd.org/developers/celestar/cargodest.hg/
12:14<+glx>http://hg.openttd.org/developers/celestar/cargodest.hg/ <-- this one is
12:15<FauxFaux>JINX
12:17<Chris82>uhm how can I "access" patch settings
12:17<Chris82>_patches.foo doesn't work anymore
12:17<Chris82>and EconomySettings.foo doesn't work either
12:18<+glx>settings.category.name
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>_setings_game.<type>.<name>
12:18<Chris82>ah ok :) thx
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>or _settings_client
12:19<@Bjarni>ln: any idea of when this crashing issue was discussed?
12:20<ln>Bjarni: on monday or something
12:20<@Bjarni>and nobody posted a bug report to inform me?
12:21<@Bjarni>what a great bunch of guys you all are :P
12:21<@Bjarni>it took you 3 days to inform me of a crashing bug that you expect me to fix
12:22<+glx>2 days ago
12:22<+glx>[17:55:50] <@Rubidium> LilDood: the best you can do is post a bug report on flyspray that the 0.6.2 release doesn't work on 10.3 and that the nightlies do
12:22<+glx>from my logs
12:23<@Bjarni>!logs
12:23<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
12:25<@Bjarni>found it
12:26<@Rubidium>Bjarni: I'm not going to post bugreports of things I can't reproduce myself as we then still can't tell whether the issue is fixed or not because the reporter is unknown
12:28<@peter1138>Well, we informed you now ;)
12:28*welshdragon thought of a nice addition for buses, but is unsure whether it would be any good
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12:31<welshdragon>have a feature that lets you use a destination baord type feature, that appears alongside the name window, and you can set the destinations in the orders window
12:31<Chris82>build_vehicle_gui.cpp line 185 .... cunning should be running I think :)
12:31<welshdragon>and any buses that are going to the depot can display not in service
12:35<@Bjarni>I think I will ignore this crash report until I have access to some fully working 10.3 and 10.4 again
12:35-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
12:36<@Bjarni>either that or some guy who will actually test what I tell him/send him
12:36<Chris82>what was the difference between static and static inline again?
12:37-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: I guess it has to do with the name! Poef!]
12:38<@Rubidium>not much more than that the latter suggests the compiler to inline the function
12:39<Forked>meep meep
12:42<SpComb>oh noes, cargodest-desyncs :(
12:43<Ammler>SpComb: we have a stable server at #openttdcoop.dev
12:44<SpComb>running what revision?
12:44<Ammler>should be latest version
12:44*Ammler check...
12:44<Ammler>Game version is hc23c4457
12:44<SpComb>this is ac3014e37a77
12:44<Chris82>I am off for today, bye bye
12:44<Ammler>so it isn't :-)
12:45<SpComb>"unknown revision 'hc23c4457'"
12:45<SpComb>where did you pull from?
12:46<blathijs>SpComb: Remove the "h"
12:46<Ammler>SpComb: we running the server with latest nightly build :-)
12:46-!-Chris82 [~chatzilla@p579E1CF2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:46<SpComb>right, silly indeed, h is hardly a valid hex char
12:46<Ammler>http://binaries.openttd.org/custom/cargodest/hc23c4457/
12:47<SpComb>ac3014e37a77 is more recent (Tue Sep 09 07:39:08 2008 +0200) than c23c4457 (Sun Sep 07 18:02:58 2008 +0200)
12:48<blathijs>SpComb: It took me a week or so to draw that conclusions for a kernel revision some time ago (but then with the "g" of git)
12:48-!-CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd
12:48<SpComb>heh
12:48<SpComb>the tools should complain about those :)
12:49<SpComb>well, I'll try downgrading to c23c4457
12:49<Ammler>the "h" is from openttd :-)
12:49<blathijs>SpComb: It's not just hashes that are valid revisions, of course
12:50<SpComb>is "h...." ever a valid hg revision?
12:50<Ammler>like "r...."
12:51-!-Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:52<Ammler>if you want, we can start a new game at #openttdcoop.dev ...
12:52<planetmaker>back
12:52<FauxFaux>SpComb: One assumes it's hex.
12:52<SpComb>Ammler: I have my own server and my own co-op game with a friend :)
12:52-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:53<planetmaker>glx: the log which I created with the empty sample.cat, is it still useful or was some further insight obtained meanwhile?
12:53<Ammler>SpComb: :-(
12:53<Ammler>:-P
12:53<SpComb>const char _openttd_revision[] = "-e hac3014e3";
12:53<SpComb>lolwut?
12:53<hylje>magic
12:53<+glx>weird echo
12:53<+glx>fixed in trunk
12:53<blathijs>That would be my fault, though I think SmatZ fixed that
12:54<blathijs>SpComb: Yes, if I create a tag that has the name "h...."
12:54<Ammler>planetmaker: you reported already?
12:54<SpComb>oh, tags are revisions
12:54<blathijs>SpComb: At least that's the case on git, I don't know hg well
12:54<planetmaker>Ammler: I did nothing since getting the log. Had to leave immediately due to RL right then.
12:54<Ammler>log of?
12:55-!-Volley [~worf@84-119-43-162.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:55<planetmaker>what openttd -d 9 tells us when desyncing with the "empty" sample.cat on our PS.
12:56<@Belugas>i doubt they can tell you anything
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>i hate my wireless mouse cable...
12:56<Ammler>yeah, empty sample cat is silent, so it can't talk anymore :P
12:57<@Belugas>hehehe
12:57<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: batteries and heavy weight
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>batteries i have, but the cable for charging the batteries is broken, it does not charge properly
12:58<Ammler>planetmaker: what does it "tell"?
12:58<planetmaker>Ammler: 3.3 MB plaintext file...
12:58<SpComb>hmm... why does OpenTTD think that this is rev ac3014e3
12:59<Ammler>planetmaker: ok, :-D
12:59<SpComb>tip=ac3014e3, but my working copy is c23c445783d6
12:59<Ammler>SpComb: only first 8 chars
12:59<SpComb>still, different
12:59<Ammler>you might forgot hg up?
12:59<hylje>maybe it doesn't count working copies as the current version
13:00<SpComb>I specifically did `hg up -r c23c4457`
13:00<planetmaker>I correct myself. 32MB.
13:00<Ammler>indeed, you already pulled more :-)
13:03<SpComb> HASH=`LC_ALL=C hg tip 2>/dev/null | head -n 1 | cut -d: -f3 | cut -c1-8`
13:03<SpComb>faaaail
13:03<SpComb>working copy != tip
13:04<blathijs>I just copy pasted that from the Makefile :-)
13:05<blathijs>tip is the tip of the current branch, but you can have another rev checked out?
13:06<SpComb>sure, you can `hg up` yourself to something older than tip
13:06<blathijs>How to find the checked out rev, then?
13:07-!-sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B6E59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:07<SpComb>I suspect it might be the first row of `hg parents`
13:08<SpComb>bah, another desync
13:14<@Belugas>how was the desynching sample.cat made ?
13:14<@Belugas>was it a simple file no byte?
13:15<Ammler>Belugas: touch sample.cat
13:16<Ammler>but I didn't find a 2. server yet. it only desyncs at coop ps.
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>did coop ever do a ship only game? :p
13:16<Ammler>works also with 0.6.2
13:17-!-Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.156.131.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:17<Ammler>might it be possible, there is a newgrf, which does use sample.cat sounds?
13:18<FauxFaux>Eddi|zuHause: Oh, that'd be heart.
13:18<SpComb>hmm... if the version-detection fails like that, would that be a good explanation for the persistent desyncs?
13:18<@Belugas>ammler, sorry, i have no idea what yu are talking about -> touch
13:19<@Belugas>[13:17] <Ammler> might it be possible, there is a newgrf, which does use sample.cat sounds? <-- yes, absolutely piossible
13:19<Ammler>Belugas: that's how I created the empty sample.cat
13:19<@Belugas>grrrrr
13:19<@Belugas>DEFINE touch !
13:20<Ammler>it creates a file with 0 byte size
13:20<@Belugas>ok
13:20<@Belugas>thanks
13:20<Ammler>sorry, thought, that is a common used tool :-)
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>touch --help
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>[...]
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>Eine DATEI, die nicht existiert, wird leer angelegt.
13:20<@Belugas>so it means that right form the start, there is a lot of differences in the internals. the list is not the same
13:21<planetmaker>Belugas: for my test, I created a file the same size as the original, containing spaces and line breaks.
13:21<blathijs>t/win 21
13:21<blathijs>woops
13:22<@Belugas>planetmaker, there are verifications of the internal structure of the file upi loading
13:22<planetmaker>yes, OpenTTD rightfully proclaims that it is corrupted.
13:22<@Belugas>if it's incompatible or empty, it gives the same result
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>isn't sample.cat a binary file? spaces and linebreaks won't do a lot of good with that
13:23<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: but should it change the length of vehicles? In my understanding it contains sound...
13:23<@Belugas>bring a decent sample.cat, one with 73 sounds, and you willnot have problems
13:23<@Belugas>even if it's not th original one
13:24-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
13:24<@Belugas>what is the relation with vehicle length???
13:24<planetmaker>:) Well. I don't know.
13:24<Ammler>that is the error msg.
13:24<planetmaker>you got the image, Ammler^^
13:24<@Belugas>ho... just... saying stufff in thin air.. I see hehhe
13:24<Ammler>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/screens/empty_sample.cat.png
13:25-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:25<Ammler>after that, you will be kicked with desync
13:25<yorick>there is an error in that message
13:25<planetmaker>Also: with broken sound I wouldn't expect a desync.
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13:25-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-70-101.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
13:26-!-Fantasya [~Fantasya@78.59.192.248] has joined #openttd
13:26<Fantasya>Hi guys :)
13:26<SmatZ>hi guy
13:26<@Belugas>Ammler, looks like a general message related to callbacks and all
13:28<Ammler>I could imagine, a newgrf likes to use a sound sample and you get that because there is no real sample.cat.
13:28<planetmaker>hm, yeah. Maybe.
13:29<@Belugas>has anyone tried to search where that message comes from?
13:29<Ammler>we could now grep our newgrfs for that sound actions
13:29<planetmaker>Background was to test whether we could do without sound, so that - given OpenGFX - there could be a completely free OpenTTD :)
13:29<planetmaker>Belugas: I have a 32MB log file...
13:29<planetmaker>... but to me it plainly tells nothing.
13:29<@Belugas>and i have a one line grep result telling me the same :P
13:30<planetmaker>sync ?
13:30<planetmaker>:P
13:30<Ammler>Belugas: fixeable?
13:30<planetmaker>If it's helpful, I can try to upload it somewhere or extract some parts.
13:30-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@g227070212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
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13:30<@Belugas>Ammler, of course: get the right file :P
13:30<planetmaker>:)
13:31<@Belugas>void CheckTrainsLengths() <-- this is where the problem triggers the message
13:31<@Belugas>it smells like a callback has failed,
13:32<@Belugas>making the lenght of the train wrong
13:32<@Belugas>the acvllback failed maybe because of the absence of the proper sound
13:33-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has joined #openttd
13:33<Ammler>we use UKRS there, smells like another NewGRF "forced" bug of ??? :-)
13:33<@Belugas>there is no bug if yuo are using the proper file
13:34<Ammler>missfeature?
13:34<@Belugas>it sounds like own inflected one
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: UKRS has newsounds, if the original sounds are missing, the newsounds get at the wrong place, and everything gets confused
13:34<@Belugas>not missfeature
13:34<@Belugas>FUCKING THE SYSTEM!
13:34<Ammler>:-P
13:35<planetmaker>:D
13:35<planetmaker>a fuck a day keeps the madness away :P
13:35<Ammler>maybe it is possible, grf coder can detect that and if no sample.cat available disable newsounds?
13:35<@Belugas>lol
13:35<@peter1138>I don't see why a callback result would be dependent on sounds...
13:36<@Belugas>that is what i try to find, right now
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea either...
13:38<@peter1138>Clearly it is to spite Ammler :D
13:39<Ammler>indeed.
13:39<Fantasya>where can I get yorick's patch?
13:39<yorick>not here
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>where can i find out my current DNS settings?
13:40<@peter1138>cat /etc/resolv.conf
13:40<@Belugas>Fantasya, why? are you suicidal??
13:41<Fantasya>?
13:41<Fantasya>why?
13:41<@Belugas>Ammler, have you been able to isolate the grf that causes it?
13:41<@Belugas>Fantasya, i would not trust his patches at all ;)
13:41<Ammler>shall I try with UKRS?
13:41<Ammler>I joined around 10 servers
13:41<@peter1138>Try without, then try with.
13:41<Ammler>every server was ok, just ps faild
13:42<Ammler>and we have UKRS there
13:44<@Bjarni><Chris82> what was the difference between static and static inline again? <-- static will be inlined if only one call is made but it's more likely to be a function if it's called a lot. If inline is used then it will be inline except if it's not possible (like recursive calls)
13:44-!-Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
13:44<@Bjarni>generally using inline will make the code a bit bigger but also a bit faster at execution time
13:45<@Belugas>ps?
13:45<planetmaker>PublicServer
13:45<@peter1138>Belugas, everyone is supposed to know the OpenTTDCoop abbreviations... ;)
13:46<planetmaker>:P
13:46<@Belugas>indeed... where was my head :S
13:46<@Bjarni>somewhere far away
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>i have it
13:46<@Bjarni>like Canada :p
13:46<+glx>like my script is supposed to know all OpenTTDCoop commands ;)
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's a nice trophy on my whale chamber
13:47<planetmaker>glx: so it's your doing to kick people, asking for password? :)
13:47<@Belugas>heheh
13:47<planetmaker>Honestly, it's a nice function :)
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>no, DorpsGek kicks
13:47<+glx>planetmaker: you didn't know?
13:47<guru3>would be be a bad idea to strcpy from bits of the same string?
13:47<guru3>ie strcpy(string + 1, string)
13:47<guru3>it does seem to segfault :/
13:47<SmatZ>guru3: use memmove
13:47<planetmaker>glx: I know - I "tested" it before :P . But I knew not who made it :)
13:48<+glx>it's a simple script in my client
13:48<@Bjarni>ok, I'm out of here
13:48<guru3>SmatZ: thanks, i'll try that
13:48<SmatZ>The strings may not overlap,
13:48<SmatZ> and the destination string dest must be large enough to receive the copy.
13:48<@peter1138>You can type !password as often as you like when glx is not here.
13:48<SmatZ>from man strcpy
13:48<planetmaker>:)
13:48<@Bjarni>!passport
13:48<SmatZ>:)
13:49<planetmaker>!beer
13:49<+glx>Bjarni: it's a "smart" script
13:49<guru3>*whistles* i might not have read the entire man page...
13:49*SmatZ beers planetmaker
13:49<Ammler>Belugas: approved desynced with UKRS only
13:49<planetmaker>:P
13:49<@Bjarni>glx: it kicked me once by mistake >_<
13:49<guru3>well holy moly
13:49<guru3>that seems to have worled
13:49<SmatZ>:-)
13:49<+glx>the first version did yes
13:49*planetmaker drinks
13:49<SmatZ>:)
13:50<guru3>thanks SmatZ
13:50<SmatZ>you are welcome guru3
13:50<guru3>i now have a 170 character line :D
13:50-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:52<Ammler>Belugas: it doesn't load UKRS at all, it seems
13:53-!-Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
13:54<Ammler>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/screens/empty_sample.cat1.png
13:54*Fantasya np: MDB - BEAUTIFUL VOICES 028 (SOLARSTONE SPECIAL EDITION) [79:04m/256kbps/44kHz]
13:55*yorick waits for ln to say "turn that of"
13:55<@Belugas>Ammler: good, so you now have something to chew :)
13:55*peter1138 np: Stereolab - Miss Modular
13:55<ln>yorick: i would never say "turn that of", because it should be "off"
13:55<yorick>off*
13:55<@Belugas>it may be OR your server, OR your UKRS
13:56<Fantasya>amip?
13:56<@peter1138>Belugas, a patch from Ammler?
13:56<Fantasya>:D
13:56<@Belugas>ho no... not at all
13:56<@peter1138>Oh, then he needs to not use an empty sample.cat.
13:56-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
13:56<Ammler>gimme commit rights :P
13:56<@Belugas>indeed
13:56<@Belugas>ARE YOU KIDDING Ammler>????
13:57<ln>Belugas: do unitedstatesians need a passport for entering Canada?
13:57<Ammler>Belugas: seriously, you think it's not up to ottd?
13:57<guru3>how do you know if they're from the us unless they have a passport?
13:57<Ammler>shall I report it at UKRS thread then?
13:57<@peter1138>Ammler, no. It's because your sample.cat is empty.
13:58<@peter1138>You ought to have figured that one out.
13:58<@peter1138>guru3, they'll be the only people without a passport...
13:58<guru3>lol
13:58-!-lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
13:58<@Belugas>Ammler, OpenTTD is assuming you have a valid sample.cat
13:59<ln>guru3: well it's not unheard of that one doesn't need a passport to enter another country.
13:59<@Belugas>if ever OpenTTD decides that it does not need sample.cat, it will behave correctly
13:59<ln>guru3: especially you should know that
13:59<@Belugas>you are raising issues that are totally invalid
14:00<guru3>true, but it's not exactly 'best practice' in most countries either
14:00<Ammler>Belugas: well, I don't like to tell people where the "illegal" download locations are...
14:00<guru3>i remember the time we nearly drove into russia...
14:00<@Belugas>now...thank you very much, Ammler, you just ruined the time i allowed myaself to do some ottd coding for Phantasm's bug
14:01<@Belugas>Ammler, just DON'T tell them, just make them SEARCH
14:01-!-lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:01<@peter1138>It is an incredibly hard search...
14:01<@Belugas>baby feeding seems to be the commun way of doing nowaday :(
14:02<ln>Belugas: 20:57 < ln> Belugas: do unitedstatesians need a passport for entering Canada?
14:02<Ammler>I would also like to ofter a legal solution to join us...
14:02<guru3>peter1138: no it's not... i just got it in under a minute
14:03<@peter1138>Sarcasm detectors failing :D
14:03<guru3>yes
14:03<guru3>yes
14:03<guru3>your voice does not lend itself to sarcasm
14:03<@Belugas>Ammler, do as you wish
14:03<Ammler>Belugas: also for dedicated server, it would be cool, if it could handle it.
14:03<@Belugas>but your efforts might be better spent by making a replacement...
14:04<@Belugas>well why don't you do it?
14:04<@Belugas>do you know how many things wold be cool? plenty
14:05<planetmaker>:)
14:05<guru3>ifndef is an anagram of define
14:05<guru3>:o
14:05<guru3>well
14:05<guru3>almost
14:05<Ammler>I start my games with -snull, so a silent option wouldn't hurt :P
14:05<Ammler>I know, I am not the only one, never listen to sounds...
14:06-!-rortom [~rortom@p57B7C5EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
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14:23<Ammler>orudes sound replacment project seems stocked...
14:24<Ammler>and it needs a patch :-/
14:27<@Belugas>seems like you will have to do it on your own
14:28<Ammler>or you think about supporting empty sample.cat :-)
14:28<Ammler>as you mostly do already.
14:32<@Belugas>why in the name of WHOMEVER should i get myslef in that kind of fucking boring one-more-time-job???
14:33<@Belugas>just for Thou, my Laziness King???
14:34<welshdragon>Belugas, that was well said ;)
14:34<Ammler>omg, you are really a poor guy.
14:34<TrueBrain>pompiedom
14:34<@Rubidium>tralala
14:35<@peter1138>Why would be bother supporting an empty sample.cat?
14:35<TrueBrain>peter1138: a long outstanding question ;)
14:35-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
14:38<@Belugas>tsouin tsouin
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>for servers that do not have sounds anyway?
14:39<@Belugas>Ammler, the equation is so simple : OR YOU work OR I work. Do I care about empty sample.cat? Not at all. Do YOU? yes you do. so move your butt and try to be helpfull.
14:39<@Belugas>and i do not consider myself poor at all.
14:40*peter1138 ponders tinkling the ivories.
14:43-!-mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
14:47<Swallow>peter1138: Regarding your comment on the improved breakdowns patch (to calculate power/speed only when it changes)...
14:48-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:48<Swallow>You'd prefer to save the value in v->u.rail.cached_power/max_speed?
14:49-!-mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds reasonable
14:50-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
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14:51<Swallow>consequence would be that the max speed displayed in the gui is changed as well
14:52<@peter1138>Hmm
14:52-!-Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:52<@peter1138>Well maybe not then :p
14:53<@peter1138>i just wonder about performance if there are lot of broken down vehicles... hehe
14:54<Swallow>if that is the problem... fix your trains :)
14:55<Swallow>Well, I don't really mind whether it's cached or not
14:55<@peter1138>I don't think that answer will hold :)
14:55-!-Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-54470bf2.wfd82a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:55<@peter1138>Certainly the GUI max speed point is relevant.
14:56-!-mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:57<Swallow>I'm not sure if there are any other things, besides GUI, that depend on it...
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14:59<Swallow>looking at the code, there's also a reference to cached_max_speed in economy.cpp for calculating station rating
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15:01-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
15:01<Swallow>peter1138: Did you have any other remarks, besides caching/not caching?
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15:01<@peter1138>Yeah, cached_max_speed needs to have the real max speed :o
15:01<@peter1138>Swallow, can't actually remember, heh...
15:02<@peter1138>Also, is it me, or does zoom in/out not zoom at the mouse pointer?
15:03-!-Czeko [~Czeko@189.157.122.118] has joined #openttd
15:03<Swallow>it zooms at the centre of the screen AFAIK
15:03<eekee>I think scroll-wheel zoom zooms at the pointer.
15:03<eekee>(in fact I'm fairly sure it does)
15:03<eekee>I guess keyboard zoom replicates the buttons, which zoom center
15:03<@peter1138>It doesn't for me :o
15:03<eekee>wierd
15:10<guru3>anyone any good with sdl/opengl programming?
15:10<FauxFaux>Retarded question 1010.
15:11<guru3>now that we know who's not, anyone else?
15:11<FauxFaux>Okay, I'll play. I'm good at OpenGL, imho. What's your real question?
15:12<guru3>when i switch between full screen and windows my textures stop rendering correctly, they become white blocks
15:13<guru3>if i reload them, it comes out looking like there are two on top of each other
15:14<guru3>(and the transparency goes away)
15:14<TrueBrain>Ammler: you finished with the Features update?
15:16<Ammler>TrueBrain: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Website/About <-- maybe someone else likes to read it over?
15:16<TrueBrain>going once?
15:17<@peter1138>IIRC with some cards you basically need to reinitialize the whole thing when switching from windowed to fullscreen. But I'm probably wrong.
15:17<frosch123> * window mode with double zoom (CTRL+D to toggle) (MS Windows only) <- no longer true, is it?
15:18<TrueBrain>frosch123: correct
15:18<TrueBrain>please remove it from the wiki
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>i really liked that feature ;)
15:18<TrueBrain>sure you did
15:19<TrueBrain>didn't expect you to do anything else :p
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>i find this distinct lack of CIA disturbing
15:20<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, #openttd.notice does the same job :)
15:21<@Belugas>plus, it's more reliable ;)
15:21<frosch123>TrueBrain: done :)
15:21<TrueBrain>tnx
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>@openttd commit
15:21<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Commit by frosch :: r14291 trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp (2008-09-11 19:12:31 UTC)
15:21<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: -Fix [FS#2288] (r12853): For tunnels DrawCatenary() draws only pillars; DrawCatenaryOnTunnel() draws only wires.
15:28<yorick>@openttd bugs
15:28<@DorpsGek>yorick: Temporary Offline
15:28<yorick>stupid flyspray lacking xmlrpc
15:29<Ammler>we have 40 languages?
15:29<yorick>39, last time I checked
15:29<TrueBrain>tnx Ammler for your work
15:30<Ammler>dih helped me a little
15:31<Ammler>hmm, now I see, what I wanted to add
15:32<Ammler>links to related wiki pages...
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15:53<Czeko>hello
15:53<Czeko>i have a question
15:53<Czeko>how can i make a city name list to openttd?
15:54<Noldo>it's behind one of the buttons
15:55<Ammler>Czeko: with newgrf
15:55<Ammler>ActionF, if I remember correctly...
15:55*Belugas is impressed :D
15:55<Czeko>is there any tutorial for that? i just want to make a Mexican cities list
15:55<Ammler>:-P
15:56<@Belugas>i am , trule!
15:56<Ammler>Czeko: how many names?
15:56<Ammler>real names?
15:57-!-Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.174.188.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd
15:57<Czeko>yup, for all the states and the main cities.
15:57-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g227070212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"]
15:57<@Belugas>states will be pointless, unless yuouwant to have cities barien statesnames ...
15:57<@Belugas>baring
15:58<Ammler>you could use them as filter, like canada town set.
15:59<Ammler>Czeko: fast howto: make a list like http://svn.openttdcoop.org/grfdev/frenchtowns/french-cities.txt
16:00<Czeko>awesome, do i have to change the numbers too?
16:00<Czeko>do they represent something?
16:00<Ammler>Czeko: that is not all :-)
16:00<Czeko>no, but a simple enough first step :-)
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>the file is not utf-8 :(
16:01<Ammler>http://svn.openttdcoop.org/grfdev/frenchtowns/
16:01<Czeko>so ill just change the names then
16:01<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: afaik, nfo can't be utf-8
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>iirc i read somewhere that utf-8 strings need a certain prefix
16:02<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: yes
16:02<Ammler>well, I used iso-8859-1
16:03<Ammler>hmm, dunno, maybe grfcodec is able to convert?
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>grfcodec does not need to convert anything
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>it reads bytes, not characters
16:03<Ammler>nah
16:04<Ammler>it reads chars between double quotes
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>it can't because it has no idea of input encoding
16:04<Ammler>well, I did it that way, worked for me...
16:05<@Belugas>maybe time to make it better?
16:06<Ammler>better like as utf-8?
16:06*Belugas nods
16:07<@peter1138>You need to prefix the string with a thorn to use UTF-8
16:07<@peter1138>þ
16:08<@peter1138>Or something like that.
16:08<Noldo>how is that thorn encoded?
16:10<@peter1138>Well that's the question ;)
16:11<Ammler>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=StringCodes#UTF-8%20support
16:11<Ammler>iso-8859-1
16:11<+glx>http://devs.openttd.org/~glx/townname/
16:11<+glx>those use utf8 strings
16:12<Ammler>but the nfo is 8859-1 encoded, isn't?
16:13<@Belugas>there is a scetion called UTF-8 Support in that page ;)
16:14<DaleStan>How is that thorn encoded? <-- In UTF-8, just like the rest of the string it flags.
16:15<DaleStan>Strings in NFO are encoded in NFO encoding. Some combination of Latin-1, Latin-15, and UTF-8.
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: オーストリア does not look like 8859-1
16:16<Ammler>:-)
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: like i said, grfcodec cannot know any encoding, it just parses bytes
16:17<Ammler>but you need to save it right way
16:17<Ammler>to write "right" bytes
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>any sane editor lets you specify the encoding
16:18<Ammler>hmm, why didn't it work here, as I saved it as utf-8
16:18<Ammler>(default)
16:18<DaleStan>Did you prefix all strings containing high-ascii characters with a thorn? (U+00DE)
16:19<Ammler>I even didn't use any "high-ascii" chars
16:19<DaleStan>Actually, that's "characters beyond U+007F".
16:19<Ammler>german Umlauts aren't?
16:19<DaleStan>Yes, they are.
16:20<eekee>Plain ascii is strictly US-centric
16:20<eekee>($ but no £, for instance)
16:20<FauxFaux>No ¬ either, majorly insufficient.
16:21<DaleStan>Low ASCII contains no accents, and only the following symbols: ~!@#$%^&*()_+`-={}|[]\:";'<>?,./
16:21<Ammler>that contains german and french "Umlauts": http://svn.openttdcoop.org/grfdev/swisstowns/sprites/swisstowns.nfo
16:22<Ammler>didn't use that prefix
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16:23<DaleStan>That's because it's encoded in Latin-TTD (Approximately Latin-15, IIRC), which does contain umlauts.
16:25-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
16:25<Ammler>so if I like to support UTF-8, I would need to prefix every "strange" name and save as UTF-8?
16:27<DaleStan>That, or you write your own editor that automatically does the right thing with all strings.
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16:28<Ammler>then I see my fault, I did only prefix non iso-8859-1 chars.
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>prefix the strings, not the characters
16:29<Ammler>yeah, of course, I prefixed only the strings with those chars.
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>that should suffice
16:29<Ammler>in that case language names.
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>like this: 39 C3 9E "オーストリア (grf)" 00
16:30<Ammler>that's why it has now not all languages defined :-)
16:31<Ammler>that was huge work to copy all languages from src/lang and then as I saved, the whole nfo was screwend ;-)
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>well, you can byte-encode the strings first
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>then you don't need to worry
16:34<Ammler>low ascii is 7bit?
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>yes
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>32 to 127
16:35<Ammler>and the high ascii depense on the codepage?
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>yes
16:35<Ammler>thanks, should get it now :-)
16:36<Eddi|zuHause><32 are usually not displayable control characters (beep, line feed, etc.)
16:36<@peter1138>'codepage' being a DOSism...
16:36<Ammler>it wouldn't hurt if I prefix all strings
16:37<+glx>doesn't matter as ASCII is part of UTF8 ;)
16:38<Ammler>will the resulting GRF be bigger?
16:38<@peter1138>Yes.
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16:44<Eddi|zuHause>two bytes per string bigger ;)
16:46<Ammler>2bytes per char, isn't
16:46<Ammler>*it"
16:46<@peter1138>No, per string.
16:46*yorick encourages devs to review newly submitted patch for FS#2241
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>no, the characters are not changed
16:46<@peter1138>You don't prefix every character...
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>only the prefix needs additinal storage
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>and that prefix is two bytes long
16:47<Ammler>but..., it needs 2byte per char for utf-8,:-(
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>grfcodec does absolutely not care what encoding the strings are in, it copies the bytes verbatim into the grf
16:47<@peter1138>Ammler, no it doesn't.
16:48<Ammler>now, I am lost again...
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>no, only "high" characters are 2 or more bytes
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>ascii characters are 1 byte
16:48*Pikka wonders if you can copy bytes "verbatim" ;)
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>the highest bit in the character is used to indicate "this is a multi-byte character"
16:49<Ammler>ok, now, I see again :-)
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16:50<Eddi|zuHause>i think a character can be up to seven bytes
16:50<@peter1138>4 is the maximum, IIRC.
16:50<DaleStan><Ammler> it wouldn't hurt if I prefix all strings <-- Well, prefixing strings that contain the control characters 7D..7F without properly changing them to E07D..E07F them will cause things to go badly.
16:50-!-FauxFaux [~faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:51<DaleStan>4 is the maximum for Unicode. 7 is the maximum for UTF-8. (7FFFFFFFh, IIRC)
16:51<@peter1138>Wrong.
16:51<@peter1138>RFC 3629 limits the range to 10FFFFh.
16:51<DaleStan>Range for UTF-8? or range for Unicode characters?
16:52<@peter1138>Range for Unicode, I believe.
16:52<@peter1138>Hmm, possibly UTF-8.
16:52<@peter1138>It's limited to 4 bytes, anyway.
16:52<DaleStan>I know that Unicode is limited to a much smaller range than UTF-8 can technically encode.
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16:55<DaleStan>But "technically possible" does not mean "valid"; "FE 80 80 80 80 80 80" would (I hope) decode to 0, except that the UTF-8 RFC disallows encodings that are not minimum-length.
16:56<@peter1138>FE was never valid.
16:56<@peter1138>UTF-8 allowed up to 6 bytes originally, before it was limited to 4.
16:56<@peter1138>(Indeed, my original UTF-8 stuff for OpenTTD allowed 6 bytes)
16:56<DaleStan>Oh. Then FC and drop an 80.
16:57<@peter1138>It would decode to an error ;)
16:57<@peter1138>As you said.
16:57<dih>there are no Spoons !
16:57<Spoons>Lies!
16:57<Spoons>𒁹
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16:59<@peter1138>See?
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17:08<@Belugas>night all
17:12<dih>the wording PBS signal in the english lang file is odd
17:12<dih>it's a souble signal
17:12<dih>Path Based Signal signal
17:14<blathijs>actually, it's Path Based Signalling signal
17:14<blathijs>which i slightly less weird :-)
17:15<dih>still double signals
17:15<dih>ugly :-P
17:16<nckomodo>Public Broadcasting Station signal
17:38-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
17:41<Czeko>im back, i have the list of some mexican cities (about 90)... now what?
17:42<Ammler>so you just like to make a example?
17:42<Ammler>because 90 is not that much for 4k² map
17:43<dih>Ammler: there are no 4k^2 maps
17:43<Ammler>psst
17:43<dih>at least not in standard shipped OpenTTD
17:43<Czeko>hahaha
17:43<Czeko>should i write more before proceeding?
17:43<dih>but 90 is still not enough for 2K^2 map
17:44<Czeko>how many should i write?
17:44<Czeko>200?
17:44<Ammler>that is ok
17:44<dih>Czeko, why dont you start a game with that map size?
17:44<dih>set number of towns to the max value
17:44<Czeko>and count the number of cities
17:44<dih>set number of industries to minimum value (none)
17:44<dih>then open the towns directory
17:44<dih>and it will tell you how many there are
17:45<Ammler>my swisstowns has around 2k possibilites
17:45<Czeko>ok :-)
17:45<Ammler>and frenchtown around 400
17:45<Czeko>damn
17:45<Ammler>but you should be able to start with around 200
17:48<dih>small games
17:48-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:49<Ammler>and coding is easier if you have not more then 255 names
17:51-!-Kasceh [~Kasc@cpc2-leed7-0-0-cust124.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
17:51<Kasceh>is there any date on openttd 7.0 ?
17:51<FauxFaux>Whyh?
17:52<Kasceh>I want PBS when i play multiplayer
17:54-!-Zeal [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
17:54<planetmaker>Kasceh: join a nightly server. E.g. the openttd fairplay nightly by dih
17:56<Kasceh>planetmaker, i like to do different game modes :P im not exactly desperate for 7, just wanted to know if anyone had a date on its release :P
17:56<@Rubidium>OpenTTD 7.0 is likely to be released somewhere far into one of the next decades or centuries
17:57<planetmaker>:P
17:57<dih>nice one Rubidium
17:57<dih>hihi
17:59<Kasceh>=[
17:59<planetmaker>Kasceh: you know the current stable version number?
17:59-!-Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:00<dih>Kasceh, what is wrong with my nightly server?
18:00<Kasceh>im on 6.2 idk if its the current
18:00<Kasceh>nothing?
18:00<planetmaker>read again.
18:00<Kasceh>Ill probably see the same people, which is more like a group than a server :/
18:00<planetmaker>or read the website.
18:01*Rubidium ponders installing Windows NT 2600
18:01<Kasceh>The latest stable version is 0.6.2, released on August 1st 2008.
18:01<Kasceh>oh
18:01<planetmaker>:D
18:01<Kasceh>0.7.0 then ;]
18:02-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
18:02*Rubidium summons MrMist to extrapolate the previous releases and give us a release date
18:04<SmatZ>hehe
18:05*Rubidium ponders making releasing next major stable release before a Christmas
18:06<SmatZ>Christmass 2011?
18:07<@peter1138>London Olympic 2012 Release
18:07<@Rubidium>yeah, during the tt-forums meet :)
18:08<dih>Kasceh, you can invite as many people to that server as you like
18:08<@peter1138>Let's try to beat TTDPatch's record for time between releases.
18:08<@peter1138>(stable releases)
18:08<dih>it upgrades every day at 20.15 CEST
18:08<dih>and save games are done every hour and available for download
18:09<@peter1138>nini
18:09<dih>night peter
18:10<SmatZ>nn
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19:07<TrueBrain>sjoep sjoep
19:11<TrueBrain>you people go to bed too early
19:12<+glx>I don't :)
19:12<Nite_Owl>Depends on the time zone
19:12<TrueBrain>that is very true
19:14-!-Czeko [~Czeko@189.157.122.118] has quit [Quit: Czeko]
19:14<TrueBrain>so I can just safely say this channel is boring ;)
19:14<TrueBrain>fine by me too :)
19:36<Kasceh>would be awesome if i could only see servers with breakdowns set to off :/
19:37<Pikka>breakdowns > you
19:38<ln>gooooood eveniiiiinggg
19:38<Kasceh>They are annoying without PBS
19:39<Kasceh>hi
19:40<Pikka>I say I say I say
19:40<Pikka>does anyone know how town var 41 B Town index is handled in ottd?
19:43<+glx>case 0x41: return t->index;
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19:45<+glx>and it's an uint16
19:45<Pikka>goodo
19:45<Pikka>thanks
19:46-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Release the hounds]
19:48<+glx>hmm maybe I should "fix" the wiki for OpenTTD (it's a word, not a byte)
19:49<FauxFaux>Double-octet. ¬_¬
19:51*Pikka is only using the bottom nibble, so I don't care ;)
19:52<+glx>and I think we can have more than 69 towns
19:52<+glx>*70
19:52<Pikka>yes...
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19:56<Kasceh>Jesus christ
19:56<Kasceh>some people..
19:56<Kasceh>Going out of their way to spoil everyone's work
19:56<Kasceh>Such as blocking off my sea oil supply
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19:59<@Belugas>Pikka : var 47 for house zy position, in http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Houses ?
19:59<@Belugas>would be good enough?
19:59<Phantasm>Örr.
19:59<@Belugas>xy, not zy
20:00<nicfer>hmmm, if openttd is not aiming for realism, then why not make the game start in year 1?
20:00<nicfer>thats, moving year 1920 to 1
20:00<+glx>nicfer: you can
20:01<nicfer>yes, but without any locomotives
20:01<@Belugas>you just have to make a grf that will feature the required vehicles
20:01<@Belugas>the code already supports it
20:03<@Belugas>DaleStan, no objections on your side for house->xy at var 47?
20:05<Pikka>works for me Belugas
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20:11<Pikka>hmm
20:11*Pikka is writing a seven-step advanced var 2
20:11<Pikka>I hope this works 'cause it will be a bugger to debug if it doesn't.
20:13<nicfer>hmmm, would be too hard allowing to create 4096x1024/8192x512/16384x256/etc. without bugging the game too much?
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20:25<DaleStan>Belugas: Var 47 as ----YYXX?
20:26<DaleStan>If so, no immediate objections, but I don't currently know where such information would be stored. It has to be somewhere of course.
20:27<+glx>I think it's the tileindex
20:29<DaleStan>I meant in Patch. We don't have tileindexes. We have seven untyped global variables.
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20:37<+glx>hmm newgrf spec doesn't really support maps bigger than 256*256 (example town var 80)
20:38<Pikka>we had this discussion the other day
20:38<Pikka>it does, it's just that the wiki doesn't reflect that
20:38<+glx>yes you just need to ask for a DWord
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20:40<Pikka>and do a bit of magic to convert the tileindex to xy :)
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20:48<Tefad>date
20:49<Tefad>er this is not a console
20:49<+glx>indeed :)
20:49<welshdragon>Tefad, FAIL
20:49<Tefad>well technically it is, but it isn't a shell prompt.
20:54<DaleStan>Belugas: Well, I said "----YYXX", but I meant "YYYYXXXX"
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21:31<Pikka>how interesting... my town has a population but no buildings...
21:32<Pikka>something is not right!
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21:53<@Belugas>understood DaleStan. thanks
21:53<@Belugas>Pikka?
21:54<Pikka>solved. when a town removes a multi-tile house by building a new house over it it doesn't remove the population from the other parts. :)
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21:54<@Belugas>DaleStan, what do you use to address a tile if you do not use tileindexes?
21:54<@Belugas>i'm just curous :)
21:54<Pikka>I put all the population in the first tile and it fixes the problem.
21:54<@Belugas>ok :)
21:54<DaleStan>[landscapeX+esi], usually
21:54<Pikka>Belugas: is Minimum life span in years (1F) not implemented in ottd?
21:54<DaleStan>L3 and L8 are +esi*2.
21:55<Lakie>esi would be the tile index to be honest.
21:55<Lakie>As thats how we 'find' the data for each tile. :/
21:55*Belugas checks Pikka
21:55<@Belugas>and esi is what exactly?
21:55<DaleStan>True, I guess. But it's not typed.
21:55<Lakie>True
21:55<Lakie>Its just a number between 0x0 and 0xFFFF
21:56<@Belugas>we created a lot of types around untyped data ourselves ;)
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21:56*NullAshton huhs, didn't expect so many people to be in the IRC channel.
21:56<Lakie>Well, it allows for checks around the values and such, assuming a type is a class?
21:57<@Belugas>Pikka, it is implemented. why?
21:57<Pikka>hmm
21:57<Pikka>just my buildings seemed to be being replaced more often than I'd expect :)
21:58<@Belugas>Lakie, i do not follow you on types and classes
21:59<Lakie>Maybe I've been programming oo too much
21:59<Lakie>But from what I understand there are 8-16 base types
21:59<Lakie>depending on language
21:59<Lakie>Anything else is a class / object.
22:00<Lakie>a base type would be byte, double, int, char etc. (string depends on language).
22:00<@Belugas>ok
22:00<Lakie>(Oh, you do have enums, I guess)
22:00<@Belugas>same here
22:01<@Belugas>yes, lots of enums :)
22:01<Lakie>So tileindex is just an aliased int or is it a class?
22:01<@Belugas>but we tend to typify a lot of base types
22:01<@Belugas>and yes, tileindex is a typed base class around...
22:02<@Belugas>uint32
22:02<Lakie>Hehe, ok
22:05<@Belugas>Pikka, the code is a bit stgrange around the use of that property, to be honest
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22:06<@Belugas>glx, Rubidium, are you ok with var 47 being XXXX YYYY of house positoin ?
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22:09<@Belugas>mmh... code seems to be fine after further checking
22:10<@Belugas>right.. glx is not there
22:15<nicfer>what's the goal of suggestions if all of them have as response "impossible", "do it yourself" or "we wouldn't include this"?
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22:17<JdGordon>is there any way to stop trains turning around if they are sitting at signals for too long?
22:18<JdGordon>if there isnt... does anyone know rouphly where in the code I can find the logic so it can be disblaed?
22:18<@Belugas>nicfer, does it mean we should do EVERYTHING that has been suggested?
22:19<@Belugas>does it mean we should turn OpenTTD into a WAR ZONE?
22:19<@Belugas>Does it mean we need to find ways to do EVERYHTING ASKED, even what we KNOW cannot be done?
22:20<@Belugas>or does not give enouhg to the game compared to the shitty hours of brain storming reauired to do so?
22:21<nicfer>I mean, what's the goal of the suggestions forum if noone of those goes to even a patch
22:21<@Belugas>JdGordon, i cannot tell you in the code where it happens. I know it's in the path findings somewhere
22:21<@Belugas>nicfer ther are suggestions been done.
22:21<@Belugas>JdGordon: i know that you can cahnge the time for trains to wait before turning around
22:21<@Belugas>but i'm not too good at that
22:21<JdGordon>oh? where?
22:22<nicfer>yes, but them are 0,01% of the total
22:22<JdGordon>a setting or in code?
22:22<@Belugas>well move your ass and sart coding, nicfer
22:23<@Belugas>JdGordon, i think yu can find the said value in the openttd.cfg, something about wait for signal or something
22:23<@Belugas>nicfer, and it's not my freaking fault if users come up with crazy ideas
22:23<NullAshton>JdGordon, you could have oneway signals.
22:23<@Belugas>nicfer: and we all have a life outside of openttd
22:24<NullAshton>Two consecutive oneway signals, spaced so that a train can just fit between the two. If it turns back, it instantly hits the other oneway signal the wrong way, and then turns back and waits at the proper signal more.
22:24<JdGordon>NullAshton: my signals are all oneways, but for some reason trains turn around and they just sit there because they get confued or something
22:25<@Belugas>is ther something at the end of the road?
22:25<@Belugas>can you show a screeni?
22:25<JdGordon>it happens when the back of the train sits over an intersection
22:25<JdGordon>they sit with "waiting for free path" as their status
22:25<JdGordon>causing major traffic jams
22:26<NullAshton>Oh.
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22:26<NullAshton>OOOOOH.
22:26<NullAshton>That's because it detects itself as an obstruction.
22:27<JdGordon>wait_oneway_signal ?
22:27<nicfer>but if almost no one gets coded, then why don't delete that section?
22:30<@Belugas>what is your point nicfer? what is the next step in your logic?
22:31<@Belugas>and where the fuck you do you get this highly subjective 0.01% inclusion value?
22:35<JdGordon>guys, thanks, wait_oneway_signal seems to be it... upped it to 90 and no more trains turning around :)
22:41<@Belugas>a pleasure (for little i could do for you)
22:45<NullAshton>Does anyone else use some sort of standard T and crossroad junctions?
22:50<@Belugas>it's my son who tells me how to connect tracks ;)
22:50<@Belugas>that is when i play
22:50<@Belugas>otherwise, i code...
22:52<NullAshton>Usually I have a two way system with trains on the right, and I took a T intersection from some place that's small, and impossible to overload as far as I know.
22:55<NullAshton>...huh, I found a more compact three way than my old design.
22:57<NullAshton>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/8_way_Star_Junction I never thought there could be something so huge. o.o
22:57<@Belugas>Phantasm, can you compile a patch?
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23:23<JdGordon>NullAshton: thats truly pointless... I try to make sure I never have more than 4-way junctions or it just gets too complicated and is bound to cause jams
23:23<NullAshton>I just have T junctions.
23:23<NullAshton>Lots and lots of T junctions.
23:24<NullAshton>Basically I have a line between a couple of places.
23:24<NullAshton>Then I add another line to that to go someplace else, with a tjunction.
23:24<NullAshton>I just keep adding on tjunctions to existing lines.
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23:57<JdGordon>NullAshton: yeah, I do the same, except lots of my lines end in Y junctions
23:58<NullAshton>y junctions? Huh.
23:59*JdGordon usually makes his networks too complex
---Logclosed Fri Sep 12 00:00:01 2008