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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-09-15

---Logopened Mon Sep 15 00:00:24 2008
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02:02<Gekz>hai
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02:10<@peter1138>70GB!
02:10<Gekz>:o
02:12<Pikka>petar
02:13<@peter1138>Pikka :D
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02:47<Pikka>eep!
02:56<@peter1138>Hmm?
02:59<Pikka>nothing!
03:00<Pikka>dragon went bust again, heh...
03:03<@peter1138>Oh...
03:03<Pikka>oh is the word!
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03:48-!-mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ
03:49<@Celestar>heyo
03:52<SmatZ>hello Mr. Fischer
03:52<@Celestar>:)
03:52<@Celestar>how is it?
03:53<SmatZ>good :)
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03:55*Celestar sighs
03:55<@Celestar>sometimes I hate merges :P
04:00<murray>when do you not hate them? :p
04:00<@Celestar>when they don't give conflicts?
04:00<murray>but then it isn't a merge is it? :p
04:01<@Celestar>:P
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04:04<SmatZ>hehe
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04:14<@Celestar>hm ..
04:14<@Celestar>peter1138: you're working with vim aren't you?
04:14<@peter1138>Yes.
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04:16<@Celestar>peter1138: is there any way to grep for the word currently under the cursor? Hi btw (=
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04:16<@peter1138>No idea.
04:17<@peter1138>I always just typed my search in, heh...
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04:18<@Celestar>me too
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04:26<blathijs>Celestar: You can search for the word under the cursor with *
04:27<blathijs>Celestar: But that searches for whole word only
04:27<@Celestar>blathijs: so :grep * src/* ?
04:27-!-CommanderZ [~matej@r9fi34.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd
04:28<blathijs>Celestar: no, that's just searching within the current file
04:28<blathijs>Celestar: You're looking for some variable that contains the current word, to use in a mapping, I think?
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04:29<@Celestar>blathijs: say I'm in a file where there's a function call x = foobarbaz(); I want to search for all instances of "foobarbaz" in src/*
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04:29<@peter1138>Hmm, I never used grep within vim.
04:29<@Celestar>of course I can just type :grep foobarbaz src/*
04:29<@Celestar>but that's unelegant :P
04:29<blathijs>:-)
04:31<@Celestar>mesa liken the new website (=
04:32<@peter1138>Heh, the servers page does not work.
04:34-!-Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has joined #openttd
04:35<blathijs>TrueBrain: I'm seeing an unhandled exception on the servers page (and no other output)
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04:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14328 /trunk/src/misc_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11822): when a company was renamed and then manager was renamed before building anything, company name changed
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04:56<CommanderZ>devs, could you pls have a look at my patch http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?do=details&task_id=2114 ?
04:57<@Celestar>peter1138: what's the further plan for cargodest?
04:57<blathijs>CommanderZ: The patch seems to give a 404
04:58<blathijs>which is rather weird..
04:58<CommanderZ>lol, I will reupload it when I get home
04:58<CommanderZ>seems bugspray is bugged
04:59<@peter1138>Yeah, the CIA listen in on everything.
04:59<Gekz>ACTA.
04:59<Gekz>Hide, kids.
04:59<@peter1138>Or did you mean buggy?
04:59<blathijs>Rubidium: TrueBrain: The attachment of FS#2114 gives a 404, that's not supposed to be possible, right?
05:00<@Rubidium>the page somehow doesn't generate the right url
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05:01<@Rubidium>and I've got no idea where CommanderZ got his URL from
05:01<@peter1138>It's because of all the rewrite rules.
05:01<CommanderZ>from my address bar :)
05:01<@Rubidium>and how did you get it in the address bar?
05:02<@peter1138>Flyspray needs to output an absolute URL (from /) and the rewrite rule should be /getfile/xxx instead of /task/nnn/getfile/xxx
05:02<@Rubidium>peter1138: that's what happens, but CommanderZ just gave a URL that flyspray doesn't generate itself
05:03<CommanderZ>I deleted one param there but is shouldn't break it
05:03<@peter1138>That's not what happens.
05:03<@Rubidium>and absolute URLs will break https://bugs.openttd.org
05:03<CommanderZ>Ok so the correct URL is http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2114?project=1&opened=899
05:03<@Rubidium>or without the stuff after the ?
05:04<CommanderZ>i will rather not delete anything this time
05:04<@peter1138>For instance, "http://bugs.openttd.org/2114" also gets you to the correct task.
05:04<CommanderZ>but the 404 is still there
05:04<@Rubidium>peter1138: that sucks :(
05:04<@peter1138>But then the download links don't include /task/ so you can't download...
05:04<@Celestar>Rubidium: would you find some time to do another review of cargodest?
05:05<CommanderZ>but here http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2114?project=1&opened=899 the links work well
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05:08<@Rubidium>peter1138: fixed ;)
05:09<@Rubidium>now http://bugs.openttd.org/2114 works correct too
05:17<@peter1138>:D
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05:30<@Celestar>Rubidium: yes/no? (=
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05:45<Ammler>[11:00] <blathijs> [10:34:06] TrueBrain: I'm seeing an unhandled exception on the servers page (and no other output) <-- approved
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05:46<@Rubidium>Celestar: I'll try to find some
05:47<blathijs>Ammler: I guess you mean "confirmed", "approved" would mean you think it's ok for that exception to be there :-)
05:47<Ammler>indeed.
05:48<@Rubidium>blathijs: he just means that it is now allowed for TB to read your message
05:48<Ammler>also the (nice) language flags aren't displayed...
05:48<@Rubidium>Ammler: that's because users are STUPID
05:48<Ammler>oh, sorry then :-)
05:48<murray>STOOPID
05:49<@Rubidium>saying: currently there are no translations yet because no translations have been made yet and they getting replies like: the translations don't work
05:50<Ammler>does the debian packages from the nightly download install openttd or are they also "just" packed like the generic packs?
05:51<@Rubidium>install as any .deb does
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05:54<TrueBrain>[10:35] <blathijs> TrueBrain: I'm seeing an unhandled exception on the servers page (and no other output) <- no idea what happened .. gave the server a reboot, and it came back to live ... weird science!
05:55<TrueBrain>[02:53] <DaleStan> TrueBrain: nightly.ttdpatch.net is answering requests on port 80 with a RST/ACK. <- server was once again, crashed
05:57<blathijs>TrueBrain: Welcome back! :-)
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06:00<Brianetta>Pikka (:
06:00-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad00e82.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
06:01<Brianetta>bleepy ):
06:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14329 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui_base.h): -Fix (r14306): selections in the group GUI weren't shown anymore.
06:04<Gekz>TrueBrain: this new server is terribly unstable isnt it
06:04<TrueBrain>Gekz: absolutely not
06:04<@Celestar>wth
06:04<TrueBrain>nightly.ttdpatch.net is on an old old server
06:05<TrueBrain>the new server is in fact more stable than most servers I ahve had my hands on ...
06:06<Gekz>oh
06:06-!-reldred|gone is now known as reldred
06:06<Gekz>I am mistaken.
06:19<@peter1138>Will nightly.ttdpatch.net be moving?
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06:20<TrueBrain>peter1138: in time
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06:24<@Rubidium>poor sleepman424... sleeping on the lawn of his university
06:24<@Celestar>lool
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06:40<@Celestar>hm
06:40<@Celestar>how many bugs need fixing for 0.6.3?
06:40<@Rubidium>at least 1
06:40<@Rubidium>which is rather like 3
06:40<Forked>that is somehow 15 (sorry)
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06:43<@Rubidium>Celestar: and then I'm only talking about bugs that can crash client/server (possibly remotely)
06:43-!-sleepman424 [~evanseeds@lawn-128-61-127-87.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #openttd
06:44<@Celestar>I see
07:01<@Celestar>what the hell
07:01<@Celestar>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Sechsschienengleis.JPG
07:01<@Celestar>cool stuff
07:03<Ammler>every side its own stuff, also the non-stop
07:03<CommanderZ>this would result in pretty ugly pixel mess in tdd
07:04<Ammler>hmm
07:04<Ammler>stuff :P
07:04<@Rubidium>looks like another solution to the mini-shinkansen problem
07:07<Ammler>is that kind possible with peter's rail branch? http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Dreischienenweiche.jpg
07:07<blathijs>wth, why is that useful?
07:08<Ammler>security?
07:08<@Rubidium>mini-shinkansen == narrow version of shinkansen so it can run on "normal" rail (clearances). However at normal shinkansen stations the steps extend sideways to make a kind of bridge to the platform
07:08<blathijs>Ammler: So people can't touch the (closed) side of the train?
07:09<Ammler>only slow trains are close to the plattform
07:09<@Rubidium>blathijs: for supporting narrow and wide trains at the same station
07:10<@Celestar>stupid narrow gauge idea :P
07:10<Ammler>Rubidium: the "Sechsschienengleis" doesn't seem to be for different witdhts
07:10<blathijs>Rubidium: Ah, right. Same size rail, but different width train :-)
07:15<dih>would it not make sense to treat road crossings like signals? in that they are closed if a train is in the signal block ;-)
07:15<@Rubidium>blathijs: http://flickr.com/photos/ddtmmm/2859224240/in/set-72157600821505575/ <- normal shinkansen at normal shinkansen stop, http://flickr.com/photos/10076455@N04/810543070 <- minishinkansen at normal shinkansen stop... mind the gap
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07:21<@Celestar>dih: with yapp, that does happen
07:21<Ammler>that is actually another nice feature of PBS
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07:22<@Celestar>Ammler: how's the performance of cargodest meanwhile?
07:22<Ammler>it rocks
07:22<Ammler>:-)
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07:22<@Celestar>heh.. ok (=
07:23<Ammler>someone (Ben) who couldn't join the dev server because of the cpu usage, can join again because of your optimizing...
07:23<Noldo>Celestar: how did you optiomize it?
07:23<Ammler>cache
07:24<Ammler>but sadly, we didn't start a new game
07:24<@Celestar>Noldo: cache, cache, cache
07:24<blathijs>Rubidium: The gap actually seems similar to what we have in NL, but it's probably bigger :-)
07:24<@Celestar>on multiple levels
07:25<@Celestar>Ammler: we could start a new game at some point
07:25<Forked>:)
07:25<@Celestar>but I'll be in Berlin (yuck) from Wednesday to Friday
07:25<Ammler>I would like to "repeat" my scenario :-)
07:25<@Rubidium>blathijs: inch vs foot clearance (sometimes those imperical measures as usefull)
07:25<@Celestar>sounds like a good idea.
07:25<@Celestar>Ammler: we *could* start it today :P
07:26<@Celestar>unless there are things that need to be done before.
07:26<Ammler>games without NewGRFs just (well) sucks. :-)
07:26<@Celestar>yes
07:26<@Celestar>I agree
07:26<@Celestar>and we might want to change some penalty factors
07:26<Ammler>and DBSet is the best pax train set
07:27<Ammler>but maybe NARS2 would be nice too, didn't play it much yet.
07:28<Ammler>2cc has the problem that it likes to support every length
07:30<Ammler>(or it is the excuse, because length limits are hard to code, dunno)
07:30<@Celestar>DBSet would be cool
07:38<@Celestar>is GRVTS causing desync problems (on trunk) ?
07:43<@Rubidium>Celestar: trunk as in when?
07:43<@Celestar>now?
07:44<@Rubidium>then: not that I'm aware of
07:46<@Celestar>good
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07:52<Ammler>desyncs are very rare now...
07:53<Ammler>and you know, how many NewGRFs coop servers use :-)
07:54<@Celestar>:-)
07:55<Ammler>frosch is the hero :P
07:55<@Celestar>:)
07:55<@Celestar>hm .. maybe frosch and I should fix multistop first (=
07:56<Ammler>that is indeed very annoying currently...
07:56<Ammler>well ever :-)
07:56<@Celestar>it wasn't before DTRS (=
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07:57<Ammler>it isn't still without :-)
07:57<@Celestar>he?
07:57<@Celestar>ENOPARSE
07:57<Ammler>if you don't need DTRS, you don't have problems.
07:57<Ammler>but then you can't use aRVs
07:58<@Celestar>yeah
07:59<welshdragon>what's the problem with multistop?
07:59<CommanderZ>RVs don't choose the station correctly and make unnecessary queues
08:00<welshdragon>hmm, yeah, i've noticed that
08:00<welshdragon>needs a better routing algorithm imho
08:01<welshdragon>i.e. instead of taking the shortest route, an RV takes a route with less 'traffic'
08:01<Ammler>the problem might be, that they see a DTRS with a free spot, but enter from the wrong direction...
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08:02<@Rubidium>Celestar: hg diff -r 6e3a58a7587d src/strings.cpp <- looks like a sync gone horribly wrong
08:03<@Celestar>Rubidium: I'll be checking it in a few minutes
08:03<@Celestar>thanks
08:07<@peter1138>Mine or Celestars? :p
08:07<@peter1138>Ammler, have you been playing games since those recent desync fixes then?
08:07<Ammler>peter1138: coop ps is always near trunk
08:08<Ammler>or also the cargo dest branch is after that...
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08:09<@peter1138>No it's not. Sometimes you stick to an older version if there are problems.
08:09<@peter1138>12:06 Ammler> is that kind possible with peter's rail branch? http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Dreischienenweiche.jpg
08:09<@peter1138>It is possible by making the combined track a new track type.
08:10<planetmaker>[14:09] <peter1138> No it's not. Sometimes you stick to an older version if there are problems. <-- and we update mid-game, if important problems are solved :)
08:10<@peter1138>So you'd have narrow gauge track, standard gauge track, and combined narrow and standard guage track.
08:10-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B83E43.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:10<@peter1138>And did those fixes solve anything?
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08:11<Gekz>lol thats crazy
08:12<planetmaker>peter1138: it's my impression that desyncs got considerably better.
08:12<Gekz>peter1138: is that implemented in openttd?
08:12<planetmaker>Yesterday though I saw one desync - but it's the only one in days.
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08:12<planetmaker>saw != experienced myself.
08:12<Ammler>[14:09] <peter1138> No it's not. Sometimes you stick to an older version if there are problems. <-- near is around a week or 100-200 commits
08:14<Gekz>have we hit 20000 yet?
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08:16<CommanderZ>r20000?
08:16<Gekz>yes
08:16<CommanderZ>nope, there is currently r14something
08:17<Gekz>lol
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08:18<dih>peter1138: i have a server that is always current nightly
08:18<dih>(no newgrf's either)
08:18<@peter1138>Hmm, that was EXCEEDINGLY greasy chicken.
08:18<@peter1138>And damn, did it taste good :D
08:18<dih>:-)
08:18<@peter1138>No NewGRFs? How do you get players? :p
08:19<dih>well - as newgrfs can be the cause of desyncs etc, i wanted to avoid that
08:19<dih>so i can make relyable reports when stuff shows up
08:19<dih>and i do get a few players here and there
08:20<@peter1138>Mind you, currently there's only me and Pikka on my server.
08:20<@peter1138>welshdragon keeps trying to keeps going bankrupt...
08:20<dih>hehe
08:20<@peter1138>*but
08:20<dih>if you want any newgrfs loaded for any reason, drop me a note
08:20<@peter1138>Not really, I can run my own ;)
08:21<dih>i dont really touch my server :-P
08:21<dih>hihi
08:21<dih>how i love that
08:21<dih>only every once in a while i need to kill zombie proceses :-(
08:21<@peter1138>No desyncs so far but that may be because it's too hard to have millions of road vehicles chasing each other.
08:22<Ammler>we recently played a rv only game witout desyncs (eGRFVTS)
08:22<Ammler>-F
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08:22<@peter1138>Mind you, it's always welshdragon who desyncs on Brianetta's server.
08:22<dih>hehe
08:23<dih>welshdragon: feel free to join my server and try the same ;-)
08:23<Ammler>peter1138: you can part and join again without desync?
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08:24<Ammler>you just would need to reload the game and eveyone can join again else (!save !rcon load game)
08:24<dih>welshdragon: feel free to join my server and try the same ;-)
08:25<welshdragon>Dih: i will do when my laptop behaves again
08:25<dih>upper case D looks ugly :-S
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08:25<welshdragon>Sorry. Had to swap to my phone
08:26<welshdragon>And it capitalizes sentences
08:26<@peter1138>I can, yes.
08:27<@peter1138>Is that a problem?
08:27<@peter1138>Oh, Dih :D
08:27<@peter1138>Well there's an obvious solution to that.
08:27<@peter1138>We shall all call him Dih from now on :D
08:27<welshdragon>Peter: your build costs are too high
08:28<welshdragon>Heh
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08:28<dih>you are too kind petter
08:28<Ammler>!s/p/b/
08:28<welshdragon>Peter can be petra
08:30<dih>you could be nessi!
08:31<welshdragon>Nah
08:32<@peter1138>Dih, I know!
08:33<@peter1138>Costs are too high? But...!
08:33<@peter1138>Actually that is a major flaw in TTD...
08:33<@peter1138>You start off with slow vehicles that you can hardly make a profit it.
08:33<@peter1138>*with
08:33<@peter1138>Then later you end up with fast vehicles that rake it in.
08:34<@peter1138>It's the wrong way around in the difficulty level stakes :o
08:37<@peter1138>So we need GRFs that give you fast vehicles to start with and slow them down? :o
08:38-!-Tim [83dc24f1@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd
08:38<Ammler>or a GRF wich just rises basecost with years...
08:39<CommanderZ>we all know whole economy of (O)TTD is broken...and cannot be fixed with one simple change...:(
08:40<Forked>start in 2050 and go backwards in time
08:40<Forked>force breakdowns on trains that have not been invented yet
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08:42<welshdragon>that's better :P
08:46<dih>you can make a bunch of money with r's
08:46<dih>*rv's
08:47<dih>just need to make use of the station spread ;-)
08:47<dih>and you can 'teleport' by 'transfering' from one end of the map to the other, and make a bunch of cash
08:47<dih>very helpful at the beginning :-P
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09:00<@peter1138>:)
09:00<Forked>cheaters :\
09:02<Ammler>on competition servers, usually it isn't higer than 12
09:05<dih>that aint cheating
09:05<dih>it's not even a bug
09:05<dih>it's a feature :-D
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09:21<@peter1138>76GB!
09:22<TrueBrain>peter1138: getting there ;)
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09:31<@Belugas>judging by the number of timeout that welshdragon is afflicting us, i would not trust any of his MO bugs...
09:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14330 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/ (greek.txt latvian.txt): -Fix: compile warnings in some unfinished lang files.
09:33-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
09:33<yorick>the landscape.html about bridge heads transporttype is incorrect
09:33<yorick>it doesn't include aqueducts
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09:34<@Belugas>can you put on a patch?
09:36<SmatZ>no
09:40<yorick>Belugas: should I post it on flyspray?
09:41<yorick>there it goes *fly, my little patch, fly into the big world!*
09:42*TrueBrain pakt de vliegemepper ... ;)
09:43<yorick>electronic one :)
09:43<TrueBrain>bzzz
09:43<Ammler>is "Flyspray" something from OpenTTD or a "stolen/borrowd" word?
09:44<TrueBrain>it is software
09:44<Ammler>the bugtracker?
09:44<yorick>it is bugtracker software
09:44<Ammler>well, it is a nice name :-)
09:45<@Rubidium>Ammler never visited the bugtracker?
09:45<Ammler>?
09:45<@Rubidium>should be fairly obvious that we use flyspray as bugtracker
09:45<Ammler>not really, why should I
09:46<Ammler>well, never really thought about the name itself
09:46<yorick>because you want to see patches being submitted to there
09:46<Ammler>he means the homepage of flyspray, I assume
09:47-!-fester64x2 [~fester@24.115.126.1.res-cmts.wtn.ptd.net] has joined #openttd
09:47<yorick>heh, I even submitted a bug there
09:47*yorick never got anything back
09:47<Ammler>dates are overwritten by nick?
09:47<fester64x2>nice work on openttd
09:47*fester64x2 is very impressed
09:48<@Celestar>thanks fester64x2 :D
09:48<fester64x2>no problem =)
09:48<fester64x2>thank you for making the game
09:48<@Celestar>Rubidium: I don't see the merge problem in strings.cpp ?
09:48<@Celestar>Rubidium: it looks fine to me
09:49<yorick>Celestar: I also noticed it
09:49<yorick>it's a small merge problem
09:49<yorick>just need to replace "index" by sid and remove the first definition of station
09:50<@Celestar>yorick: Rubidium: http://www.fvfischer.de/merge.diff <= that's the diff I get?
09:50<Ammler>I was wondering about the 1000er delimeter patch of Eddi|zuHause
09:51<yorick>Celestar: that's a strange diff
09:51<yorick>you are merging trunk to cargodest, right?
09:52<@Celestar>I did exactly what Rubidium said (=
09:52<yorick>hg clone http://hg.openttd.org/developers/celestar/cargodest.hg cargodestmerge && cd cargodestmerge && hg pull http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg && hg merge?
09:52<@Rubidium>Celestar: http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/7e734c287259/src/strings.cpp#l843 (what it looked like in trunk)
09:52<@Celestar>hg diff -r 6e3a58a7587d src/strings.cpp <= this in cargodest
09:52<@Rubidium>Celestar: http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/7e734c287259/src/strings.cpp#l841 (how it looks now in trunk)
09:53<@Rubidium>Celestar: http://hg.openttd.org/developers/celestar/cargodest.hg/file/0826aa8e8789/src/strings.cpp#l849 (how it looks in cargodest)
09:53<Ammler>can I change the delimeter now only with custom currency?
09:53<@Rubidium>Celestar: see any familiarity with both the looked like in trunk and looks like trunk in cargodest?
09:55<@Celestar>hm
09:55<@Celestar>recommendations?
09:56<@Rubidium>yeah, curl http://www.fvfischer.de/merge.diff | patch -R -p1
09:56-!-welshdragon [~vista@host86-145-214-136.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
09:56<@Celestar>and then commit that?
09:56<@Rubidium>yup
09:59<@Celestar>done and pushed
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10:13<@Celestar>peter1138: how's the railtypes branch going?
10:13-!-Tim_ [~chatzilla@p5090AA9C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
10:14<Tim>What? Did you really allow your partner in CargoDest to work on another branch? :)
10:15<Ammler>2 others :P
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10:15<CommanderZ>why not if they are useful :)
10:17<@Celestar>Tim: imho, cargodest is basically finished
10:17<@Celestar>Tim: code review is the next step
10:18<Tim>That's good to hear :)
10:21<@Celestar>did you test it?
10:21<@peter1138>It's going well.
10:21<@Celestar>that's great to hear
10:21<Tim>Yes, but that was about 2 weeks ago.
10:22<@Celestar>have we yet decided what happens with NewGRF_ports? Rewrite? It'd be a great addition to 0.7 ;)
10:22<@peter1138>What was about two weeks ago?
10:22<@peter1138>A rewrite seems likely, and is no bad thing.
10:22<@Celestar>peter1138: Tim testing cargodest
10:22<@peter1138>I lost count of the newstations rewrites :)
10:23<@Celestar>peter1138: I quite agree, the question is: who does it (=
10:23<TrueBrain>Celestar: my vote goes for Celestar
10:23<@peter1138>:D
10:23<@Celestar>ok yapp, cargodest, IS, newgrf_ports, railtypes, roadtypes ... maybe the next revision should be 0.8 :P
10:23<@Celestar>I'd do it, but I need some assistance, having new worked with newgrfs ...
10:23<@Celestar>s/new/never
10:24<TrueBrain>ask Bjarni! :)
10:24<@peter1138>There'll be eyecandy and bridges to do as well.
10:24<@Belugas>and newobjects will make his way in in a few <ELASTIC-TIME-PERIOD>
10:24<@peter1138>Yeah, Bjarni's good at rewriting at things.
10:24<TrueBrain>Celestar: and you forget NoAI!
10:24<@peter1138>Well, s/good at/likes/
10:24<@Celestar>TrueBrain: if NoAI is in as well, we might really go for 0.8 right away :P
10:25<Tim>Did you implement any of the "Items for Version 2" from the wiki in the current CargoDest branch, or are those to come later?
10:25<TrueBrain>After saturday the biggest missing piece of NoAI will be committed ...
10:25<TrueBrain>well, besides NAIL, but that is an other story ;)
10:25<@Celestar>Tim: they ARE for v2 (=
10:25<@Celestar>Tim: I've done some work on them already.
10:25<@Celestar>TrueBrain: Rail Building?
10:25<TrueBrain>Celestar: :)
10:25<Tim>Good to hear again :)
10:25*yorick congratulates TB with the future
10:26<TrueBrain>now if there would be time for finishing MapGen
10:26<TrueBrain>we could directly skip 0.7, 0.8 and 0.9, and call it 1.0 :p
10:26<Tim>That one would be fantastic: Adjust cargo generation to network (if you only have one power station connected, you just get less coal than when you have five)
10:26<yorick>what's MapGen?
10:26<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: after 0.9 0.A
10:26-!-thingwath [~thingwath@wireless-115.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:26<TrueBrain>yorick: a long dying project
10:26<@Celestar>TrueBrain: only if we have OpenGFX everywhere (=
10:26<yorick>aha
10:26<TrueBrain>Rubidium: now THAT would be a nice joke ;)
10:26<@Celestar>Tim: yeah, but that has nothing to do with cargodest actually (=
10:26<TrueBrain>Celestar: hehe :) I wonder if they can come up with a valid license ... ;)
10:27<yorick>" expected ‘,’ or ‘;’ before ‘:’ toke" <-- now how's that error going to be helpful
10:27<@Celestar>Rubidium: after 0.9 can be 0.10 anyway ...
10:27<@Celestar>it's not a decimal separator, that "."
10:27<TrueBrain>Celestar: lol, now that would be messy
10:27<TrueBrain>I vote for 0.A!
10:27<@Celestar>TrueBrain: why, ... look at <most projects>
10:27<CommanderZ>lol
10:28<CommanderZ>what would be after 0.F
10:28<TrueBrain>Celestar: it always confused me, 0.9, 0.10 .. it just doesn't make sense when I do: ls -1
10:28<TrueBrain>CommanderZ: 0.G
10:28<TrueBrain>who was counting in hex? :p
10:28-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg]
10:28<@Celestar>ok let's get back to being serious :P
10:28<CommanderZ>and after 0.Z would be 0.® lol
10:28-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
10:28<Tim>How about a smaller project than the ones you are talking about, which would be to re-organize and put together all of the settings? :)
10:28<TrueBrain>CommanderZ: now that is silly :p
10:28<@Rubidium>Celestar: yeah, most projects do releases on April 1st
10:29<TrueBrain>or while services are being moved ... or make a commit at r10000 which is hidden from the world ... :p
10:29<TrueBrain>damn, we have a bad sense of humor ..
10:29<yorick>at least someone guessed it was a mapgen commit
10:30<TrueBrain>as we told that person
10:30<yorick>but what is mapgen?
10:30<TrueBrain>a secret project, dah :)
10:30<yorick>(except for a secret coders-hideout)
10:30<@Rubidium>very <curseword>realistic</curseword> map generation
10:31<yorick>"realistic" !
10:31<TrueBrain>Rubidium: don't spoil it! :p
10:31<@Celestar>hm.
10:31*Celestar checks out NewGRF_ports
10:31<TrueBrain>good luck Celestar
10:32<@Celestar>hm .. there is also custombridgeheads
10:32*Celestar loses track
10:32<yorick>there is
10:32<yorick>or what's left of it
10:32<TrueBrain>*cough*gamebalance*cough*
10:33*yorick gives TB "hoestdrankje"
10:33<CommanderZ>you should really leave some fratures for 0.8 :)
10:33<TrueBrain>CommanderZ: don't worry, if one thing the past has shown: as soon as one big feature is in, an other pops up around the corner
10:33<TrueBrain>a never ending battle ...
10:33<@peter1138>I want river generation.
10:33<TrueBrain>realistic tunnels
10:34<yorick>I want lively rivers
10:34<yorick>enhanced tunnels
10:34<yorick>custom bridgeheads
10:34<yorick>gamebalance
10:34<TrueBrain>border-towns
10:34<TrueBrain>head-to-head
10:34<yorick>infrastructure-sharing
10:34<TrueBrain>other gameplays
10:34<yorick>cargodest
10:34<TrueBrain>omg, the list is endless!
10:34<yorick>neutral infrastructure
10:34<@Celestar>gamebalance was put on hold due to missing cargodest (=
10:34<yorick>(airports and docks are already possible :-p)
10:35<TrueBrain>lol @ Celestar
10:35<dih>:-)
10:35<CommanderZ>I want to live forewer to see what will OTTD 0.999 be like
10:35<@Celestar>O_o i wasn't kidding
10:35<yorick>I want bridges over stations
10:35<TrueBrain>CommanderZ: I really do hope at some point OpenTTD says: and this is version 1.0
10:35<yorick>I want subway
10:35<TrueBrain>but okay .. I wonder how version 10.0 looks like ;)
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10:35<dih>i want kick for yorick :-P
10:35<dih>:-D
10:35*TrueBrain gives dih a kick
10:35<dih>nah - just kidding
10:35<TrueBrain>for yorick
10:35<yorick>I am strongly against it
10:36<yorick>thanks :)
10:36*dih kicks yorick with the kick from TrueBrain
10:36<TrueBrain>@kick dih don't reuse my kick!
10:36-!-dih was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [don't reuse my kick!]
10:36<CommanderZ>TrueBrain: I think the 0.1 should have been 1.0.
10:36-!-dih [~dih@members.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
10:36<TrueBrain>CommanderZ: lol! Ever played 0.1? :)
10:36*yorick kicks dih with the kick from dih from truebrain
10:36<dih>:'(
10:36*TrueBrain hugs dih :)
10:36<CommanderZ>everything would be simplier now
10:36<TrueBrain>@kick yorick don't reuse my kick!
10:36-!-yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [don't reuse my kick!]
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10:37*yorick kicks TrueBrain with the kick he just received
10:37<TrueBrain>(you had thatone coming :p)
10:37<CommanderZ>TrueBrain: no, but I have seen somewhere it was 1:1 clone of TTD
10:37<TrueBrain>@kickban yorick but my kicks are stronger
10:37<dih>yep - i was waiting for it :-P
10:37<Ammler>could someone build a r1 linux for me?
10:37<TrueBrain>@kban yorick but my kicks are stronger
10:37-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by DorpsGek
10:37-!-yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [but my kicks are stronger]
10:37<CommanderZ>this is getting crazy
10:37<TrueBrain>@op
10:37-!-mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
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10:37-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by TrueBrain
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10:37-!-mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by TrueBrain
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10:38<TrueBrain>CommanderZ: OpenTTD, sort of, once was .. but 0.1 wasn't that version :p
10:38-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad00e82.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
10:38*yorick says what tb expects /me to say
10:38<TrueBrain>it was missing more stuff then it contained :)
10:38<Ammler>TrueBrain: doesn't DorpsGek have timeout for ban?
10:38*TrueBrain does what yorick expects /me to do
10:38<Ammler>so you don't need to think about your bans :-)
10:38<TrueBrain>Ammler: dunno
10:38*dih sits in the middle and does not dare to move
10:38<TrueBrain>never banned someone long enoguh for that
10:39<TrueBrain>dih: good boy :)
10:39<dih>long enough for what?
10:39*yorick hugs dih :)
10:39<TrueBrain>CommanderZ: in the beginning there was this policy that every new feature in OpenTTD should be switchable, so you could always have the TTD gameplay
10:39<dih>get off!
10:39<TrueBrain>somewhere (and thank god for that), this requirement was removed :p
10:40<Ammler>TrueBrain: kban [<channel>] [--{exact,nick,user,host}] <nick> [<seconds>] [<reason>]
10:40<TrueBrain>Ammler: tnx, can I test it on you? :p
10:40<Kloopy>@op
10:40<Ammler>:P
10:40-!-CommanderZ [~matej@r9fi34.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:40<Kloopy>:(
10:40<dih>loooooooser!
10:41<TrueBrain>lol
10:41<TrueBrain>kindergarten
10:41<dih>you dont really think one would leave a bot to op the op-en world
10:43<TrueBrain>that almost didn't make sense
10:43<dih>_almost_ is a key word in that line ;-)
10:44<dih>makes all the difference
10:44<TrueBrain>you think?
10:44<TrueBrain>:)
10:44<TrueBrain>I thought it was the word 'make'
10:44<TrueBrain>but maybe I should add a comma there
10:44<TrueBrain>(lol :p)
10:44<dih>yeah - i do think - yorick is the one that does not think
10:44<TrueBrain>dih: now be nice to that kid
10:44<dih>i was!
10:44<dih>:-D
10:44<dih>hehe
10:44<TrueBrain>if that is your way of being nice, we really need a long talk soon, my son
10:45<TrueBrain>(LOL!)
10:45<TrueBrain>Luke! I am your Father!
10:45<dih>"my son"??
10:45<TrueBrain>haha
10:45<dih>you gotta be kidding me
10:45*TrueBrain is having fun here :)
10:45<dih>DV was older than Luke
10:45<dih>oh - and you just made yourself the evil one :-D
10:45<dih>hehe
10:46<TrueBrain>@mode +m
10:46-!-mode/#openttd [+m] by DorpsGek
10:46-!-mode/#openttd [-m] by DorpsGek
10:46<TrueBrain>how is that for evil? :p
10:46<dih>uh... scared :-P
10:46<TrueBrain>okay, I am going to get some food, do some rock climbing ... have a good day all :)
10:47<dih>you too pawpaw
10:47<dih>daaaass waydaaa
10:47*yorick still feels like being banned
10:48*dih thinks yorick WANTS to be banned
10:48<yorick>dih: more like I want to be unbanned
10:48<Tim>If someone would give me rights, i would edit the 0.7 roadmap as soon as i find time for it...
10:50<dih>nice try Tim :-D
10:51-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm143.epsilon121.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd
10:51<Tim>hehe
10:52<Tim>Just wanna help :)
10:52<dih>yeah - most of us do :-P
10:53<dih>:-D
10:53<Tim>Can i create sub-pages for my userpage?
10:53<yorick>yes
10:53<Ammler>TrueBrain: small diff for about page: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php?title=Website%2FAbout&diff=29091&oldid=29031
10:53<dih>Tim: did you try?
10:54<Tim>Ah yes, should work
10:55<Tim>Hm, then i'll try to work on that stuff there
10:57<Tim>But you could tell me how to link to that subpage :)
10:57<yorick>the news headers seem fixed to the english page
10:58<Tim>Ah ok, works...
10:59*Celestar wishes the UK would go-ahead with the UK Ultraspeed project :P
11:00<dih>whats that - ultra fast to hell?
11:00<dih>flood london (leave the great barrier open) :-P
11:00<@Celestar>dih: no, a Transrapid network for UK
11:00<dih>excluding a oxford - cambridge line
11:01<dih>as that would go against all rules
11:01-!-Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-197.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit []
11:01<@Celestar>as we only have idiots in government in Germany trying to bomb this country back to the stone age
11:02<Tim>like whom?
11:03<Brianetta>Ultraspeed: www.500kmh.com
11:04<dih>cute
11:05<@Celestar>Tim: er .. like everyone. We don't build highways, we don't build railways and we don't build airports. We also don't want research, especially in genetics or nuclear physics.
11:06<@Celestar>Our railway and road system is in a really sorry state
11:07<Ammler>well, you need to catch up the whole easy
11:07<Ammler>east
11:07<@Celestar>the east is caught up pretty well, infrastructure-wise
11:07<dih>there is one thing i really dislike about transrapid
11:07<dih>the switches
11:08<@Celestar>dih: yeah, but you need very few of them
11:09<dih>none the less, they are ugly
11:10<Brianetta>You need something like ten of them, across 700 miles
11:10<@peter1138>That doesn't stop people layout them down horribly.
11:10<@Celestar>er .. who cares about their ugliness
11:10<@Celestar>Brianetta: yeah, maybe twelve
11:10<dih>i care about uglyness
11:10<@peter1138>Dih cares!
11:10<dih>a wrong switch will turn out really horribly :-P
11:10*dih slaps peter1138
11:11<dih>with a lower-case d
11:11<yorick>NO!
11:11<dih>shush
11:11<yorick>err...I mean...YES! offcourse :)
11:11<@peter1138>Yorick!
11:11*yorick slaps peter1138
11:11<yorick>lower-case-d
11:11<@peter1138>dorick!
11:12<dih>i prefer yorky-porky
11:12*dih hides
11:12<dih>peter1138: forgive him, he does not know what he's doing :-P
11:13<yorick>dih: does anyone?
11:14<dih>forgive you? hide? or prefer yorky-porky?
11:14<yorick>know what I'm doing
11:14<SpComb>Celestar: so what countries have better road/rail networks than germany?
11:14<@Rubidium>Japan!
11:14<yorick>Belgium!
11:15<@Celestar>SpComb: Rail? France, Japan, Switzerland ...
11:16<@Celestar>Road? Austria, Switzerland, Italy, France, USA, ... (haven't been to that many)
11:16<@Celestar>SpComb: Rail Travel Times are just laughable
11:16<@Rubidium>roads in the NL are better than in Italy
11:16<@Celestar>5.5 hours Munich-Berlin, where 4 hours should be maximum and 2.5 hours is not even technically challenging :S
11:18<@Celestar>but no, we have fecking Greens all over the country. They want no highways, no high-speed rails, no airports, no wind power plants, no water power plants, no coal power plants, no nuclear power plants, no genetic research. Man. Shoot them back to the stone age.
11:18<FauxFaux>The UK! (HAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHAAHAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAAHHAHAAAAAAAAAHAHHHA)
11:18<dih>bloody spammer
11:18<@Rubidium>Celestar: wouldn't it be more green to not feed them?
11:19<yorick>why no wind power plants?
11:19<dih>because then the smell of the sheep dung would stay in the country
11:19<@Rubidium>they kill birds
11:19<dih>:-P
11:19<@Rubidium>and hydroplants kill fish
11:19<@Celestar>yorick: they're too loud, apparently.
11:19<dih>wow
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11:20<yorick>then what?
11:20<dih>import
11:20<@Rubidium>Celestar: actually, they're not loud enough; otherwise birds wouldn't fly into them ;)
11:20<dih>hambster in a wheel
11:20<dih>gnah
11:20<@Celestar>Greens are dangerous
11:20<SpComb>hide all the coal power plants in china and then just ship the electricity over
11:20<@Rubidium>yorick: no electricity ofcourse
11:20<FauxFaux>Yeah, fit large, radioactive sirens to them, that'll keep the birds away.
11:21<dih>SpComb: and then send another bomb :-P
11:21<yorick>dih: that would make too much noise
11:21<dih>the hapster or the bomb?
11:21<dih>:-P
11:21<@Rubidium>problem is that you can't transport electricity that far
11:21<@Celestar>SpComb: this is exactly what is happening now. No actually, it is happening the other way: Energy-intensive industries move out of Germany; mostly taking the jobs with them.
11:21-!-Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0C580.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:22<@Celestar>Rubidium: you needn't go to China. You can just build nuclears on the German borders.
11:22<@Celestar>Thanks to The Greens and associated idiots, we've also sold all the nuclear know-how as well.
11:22-!-Tim [~Tim@p5B37CBD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:23<yorick>how to calculate height differences?
11:23<@Celestar>delta h = h2 - h1
11:24<yorick>...
11:24<lobster>oooh
11:24<lobster>new flashy website design is new and flashy
11:24<yorick>the new flashy website design is only new, not flashy
11:25<lobster>yet no general download page, how odd
11:25<@Rubidium>and in Europe some radiation treatments aren't being conducted because there aren't enough radioactive isotopes (because they have to stop NL's only nuclear reactor)
11:26<yorick>and they also stopped building a new one
11:27<@Rubidium>so until at least the end of October there's a shortage of medical isotopes in Europe
11:27<lobster>i overheard my girlfriend's dad talking about that
11:28<@Celestar>SpComb: look at this, it's nothing short of embarrassing: http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/media/RailwayGazetteWorldSpeedSurvey2007_01.pdf
11:28<yorick>my dad is talking about it...
11:28<lobster>he's a manager in the "zorg", so he had a few cases of things being delayed because of this very problem
11:28<yorick>I'm not lobster's girlfriend, am I?
11:29<@Belugas>naaa, you're mine, sweety
11:30<yorick>how do I get the height of the heighest corner of a tile?
11:30<@Rubidium>yorick: learn how to use grep
11:31<yorick>that's like having a search engine in front of your screen without knowing the query
11:31<@Rubidium>try corner and high
11:31<@Belugas>+e
11:31<@Rubidium>or even try: highest and corner!
11:31<@Belugas>+t
11:32<@Rubidium>or... what about
11:32<@Rubidium>or... what about "highest corner"?
11:32<yorick>nah
11:32<Ammler>Rubidium: ottd trunk does still use only one palette? And if the NewGRF differ from base grf, it will be converted "on-the-fly"?
11:32<yorick>that's far too obvious
11:32<@Belugas>or read header files like map or tiles?
11:33<SmatZ>yorick: GetTileMaxZ or so
11:33<@Rubidium>Ammler: that's the idea
11:33<Brianetta>It's automagical
11:33<dih>lobster: http://binaries.openttd.org/
11:33<yorick>SmatZ: and how do I make that relative?
11:33<Ammler>well, then I understand, why you should still use all GRFs from same palette.
11:34<SmatZ>yorick: relative to what?
11:34<yorick>relative to 2 tiles below or above it
11:34<Brianetta>Ammler: With the 8bpp graphics, the entire screen is like a PCX composite using one palette.
11:34<yorick>I would like to see if a tile is 2 tiles above another one
11:35<dih>yorick: use your eyes :-P
11:35<SmatZ>yorick: I don't know what you mean, but 'minus' and 'abs' are your friends
11:35<Brianetta>yorick: Use maths.
11:35<Brianetta>You know how wide the map is.
11:35<yorick>problem is that GetTileMaxZ returns something that's around 60
11:35<yorick>64...56
11:35<SmatZ>yorick: /8
11:36<yorick>why /8?
11:36<SmatZ> TILE_HEIGHT = 8, ///< The standard height-difference between tiles on two levels is 8 (z-diff 8)
11:36<yorick>OH
11:36<yorick>oh*
11:36<yorick>hm
11:36<@Belugas>baby feeding time...
11:36<yorick>:*
11:38<SpComb>Celestar: I didn't read it completely, but Germany's stats don't seem to be *that* bad
11:38<SpComb>it's not the best in the world, but it wast at least 5th at something or other
11:38*dih feeds Belugas :-P
11:39<@Rubidium>SpComb: but it doesn't show the direction the speed is going (like down for Germany and up for Japan)
11:40<SpComb>sure, the competition is fierce
11:40<SpComb>if your definition of "a good railroad network" is "better than anyone else", then it might be a bit difficult, yes
11:40<@Rubidium>I'm talking about absolute speed, not their place on the list
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11:46<@Celestar>SpComb: yes at first glace. However, you will notice that the first 5 of our entries are one and the same route, just different stopovers.
11:47*Celestar wonders how a stopover in a middle of a 300km/h track costs only 4 minutes.
11:50<@Celestar>Frankfurt Airport - Siegburg (144km): non-stop 37 minutes. Frankfurt Airport - Montabaur (81km) - Siegburg (63km): 41 minutes (plus 2 minutes stopping time)
11:50-!-giftnudel [~mb@frnk-590ee935.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:50<@Celestar>I know the ICE3 accelerates very fast, but this seems a little much
11:50<dih>ICE usually stops for 2 minutes at each station
11:50<dih>+-
11:51<dih>plus DB is generally late
11:51<dih>and slow
11:51<@Celestar>slow is true :S
11:51<@Celestar>Munich-Lindau 2hours 5 minutes \o/
11:51<Ammler>according to DBSet, acceleration of the ICE isn't that fast :-)
11:52<SpComb>most of my personal experience with german railroads consists of playing TTD with the DBSet
11:52<@Celestar>2 hours 50 minutes. Sorry.
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11:52<@Celestar>on a good day, I need 1:20 by car, at normal speeds
11:52<@Celestar>I did it in 1:00 once :P
11:53<@Celestar>January 1st, 2000. :D
11:53<dih>define 'normal speed'
11:53<@Celestar>dih: 130km/h
11:53<@Celestar>on highway.
11:53<dih>from karslruhe to where my parents live i usually need 2 hours
11:53*Ammler has 1 hour with train to Zürich, around 55mins with car.
11:53<dih>i once did it in 1.5
11:53<dih>:-P
11:54<@Celestar>my personal record was Munich-Essen in 4:00
11:54<Ammler>(90% highway)
11:54<dih>nice :-)
11:54<dih>how fast did ya go?
11:54<dih>220?
11:54<@Celestar>however, I left Munich at 1 in the morning.
11:54<@Celestar>dih: yeah, about.
11:54-!-rortom [~rortom@p57B7E503.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:54<Ammler>no respect to nature :P
11:55<@Celestar>I once did it in 4:10 in a Ford Mondeo at 16l/100km, and the 4:00 was a BMW 530d with 10l/100km :P
11:55<dih>i did the 1.5 h trip at 190 and it used about 6lieters/100KM
11:56<@peter1138>mpg!
11:56<dih>that's about 115-120 mph
11:56<dih>trip is 200km
11:56<dih>perhaps a wee bit more
11:57<dih>so that's 65?miles to 100km
11:58<dih>or use @convert :-P
11:58<@Celestar>peter1138: well that's easy. 28mpg for the BMW, 17 mpg for the Ford (both at a cruise speed around 130mph).
11:58<@Celestar>(imperial gallons)
11:58<@Celestar>Ford took 10 minutes longer, because I needed to refill once :P
11:58<dih>hehe
11:58<dih>you did not manage to do that in 6.5 seconds?
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11:59<FauxFaux>"Cruise speed of 130mph" <3
11:59<@Celestar>I filled up in Munich and was empty at Frankfurt Airport.
11:59<@Celestar>FauxFaux: :D
11:59<dih>laters ladies
11:59<FauxFaux>There's a 40mph speed limit on the dual carriageway I use frequently.
11:59<yorick>laters dih
12:00<@Belugas>bye sweety
12:01<@Celestar>hm.
12:01<@Celestar>26 EUR for a 17 minutes train ride :o
12:01<@Celestar>one-way :o
12:01*Celestar blinks
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12:05<@Celestar>SpComb: you know what is embarrassing? The DB has the fastest train in the world. And that train cannot reach is certified in Germany anywhere and reaches its maximum service speed on its trips to France.
12:06-!-grumbel [~grumbel@i577BB99F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
12:06<SpComb>wha, the fastest train in the world? :o
12:06<Brianetta>Operational train.
12:06<SpComb>what's that definition mean?
12:06<Brianetta>The SNCF have a faster TGV, but only one unit.
12:07<Brianetta>It's not in revenue service.
12:07<SpComb>is this the ICE3?
12:07<@Celestar>SpComb: yes. and it's international version, the Velaro
12:08<@Celestar>Brianetta: that TGV does afaik no longer exist. It has been specially modified for the 580km/h ride, and it required modification to the external infrastructure as well (higher voltage, higher maximum amps, etc etc).
12:09<@Celestar>the ICE3 is *certified* for 330km/h
12:09<planetmaker>Celestar: doesn't it reach that velocity between Frankfurt aM and Cologne, the Sprinter service?
12:09<@Celestar>(not sure, but afaik the Velaro is certified for 350km/h).
12:10<@Celestar>planetmaker: it used to, but the track has been limited to 300km/h.
12:10<Brianetta>OpenTTD could do with a set of free base grf files for dedicated servers. The sprites could just be empty rectangles of the correct size.
12:10<planetmaker>hehe. Why the hell that?
12:10<@Celestar>planetmaker: I don't the hell know.
12:10<planetmaker>bloody hell :P
12:10<@Celestar>planetmaker: you know why the Greens are against building new high-speed rails (like Hannover-Hamburg)?
12:11<Ammler>Brianetta: I have already played with that a little, failed on sample.cat
12:11<Brianetta>They think you should cycle
12:11<planetmaker>not really. I didn't even really know that they were.
12:11<planetmaker>why?
12:12<@Celestar>planetmaker: because the energy consumption of a fast train is higher than that of a slow train and that's bad. It is apparently better that the people use 1-passenger-occupancy cars and planes instead
12:12<planetmaker>:P
12:12-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:13<planetmaker>"think again" is what then comes first into my mind what to tell them
12:13<@Celestar>think and Green are apparently mutually exclusive :P
12:14<planetmaker>I hope not always :)
12:14<planetmaker>they might end up in governement again.
12:14<@Celestar>In germany, it seems so ...
12:14<@Celestar>you mean Red-Yellow-Green? ;)
12:15<planetmaker>whatever. Maybe. Currently I'm not sure about the sanity of most politicians in Berlin.
12:15<Sacro>oh god
12:15<Sacro>memories of 1939
12:16<@Celestar>planetmaker: neither am I
12:17<@Celestar>planetmaker: as long as the Lefties stay out ...
12:17<planetmaker>oh, yeah. They're a bunch of former "Bonzen" and a talented demagogue
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12:24<Brianetta>Has Michael Blunck always been a twat?
12:25<yorick>if he has ever not, then not
12:26<lobster>well, he's a bit DaleStan-ish towards the lesser knowing... where now, Brianetta?
12:26<Brianetta>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=38749
12:27<Brianetta>He seems absolutely vitriolic in his hatred of OpenTTD
12:27<Brianetta>I've never seen anything like it
12:27<Brianetta>I'm seriously considering pulling his newgrfs from my server
12:28<@Rubidium>Brianetta: I'm not debugging anything that requires any of OzTransLtd GRFs
12:29<Brianetta>Who?
12:29<@Rubidium>the guy of canadian somestuff 0.3.doesn't.exist.anymore
12:29<planetmaker>canset
12:30<Ammler>you take that a little bit too personally...
12:30<planetmaker>Brianetta: removing MB's grfs completely is difficult. IIRC there're some sprites even in openttdw.grf...
12:30-!-sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B613F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
12:30<@Rubidium>Ammler: I am?
12:30<Brianetta>planetmaker: That's GPL
12:31<planetmaker>the point?
12:31<Brianetta>There's no future vitriol
12:31<Ammler>it is not just OzTransLtd GRFs, he is only the coder...
12:32<Brianetta>His readmes (which he calls DoNotReadMes) are no longer, in my eyes, acceptable licenses
12:32<planetmaker>besidedes, the thread you dug out (or some other) - he wrote that a month ago. Though completely off... it's not really worth to bother about it.
12:32<Brianetta>since he's already had a go at the openttdcoop lot for distributing his grfs on a web page with the readme
12:32<Brianetta>without having them in an archive
12:32<planetmaker>After all... that doesn't help things and his grf really look nice - as actually also do the canset things.
12:32<Brianetta>his grf is nice, sure
12:32<Brianetta>but clearly it's only intended for Patch
12:33<Ammler>he is also very active on the german translation thread...
12:33<Brianetta>Is he translating for OpenTTD, Patch or just whingeing about it?
12:33<planetmaker>yeah... arguing for the spelling around 1830...
12:34-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:34<@Celestar>*sigh*
12:34<@Celestar>people just let MB yell and ignore him
12:34<planetmaker>^^ yeah.
12:35<@Rubidium>Celestar: been doing that for a long time already
12:35<@Celestar>:/ cyrus has mysteriously managed to duplicate all e-mails in my inbox
12:35<@Celestar>and now yells at me for exceeding my quota
12:35<planetmaker>lol
12:35-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe8b6.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
12:36<Ammler>Celestar: dovecot
12:36<@Celestar>Ammler: ?
12:36<planetmaker>Rubidium: it doesn't help those people to become better - but it certainly helps the channel / forum atmosphere :)
12:36<planetmaker>err... in a way as arguing senselessly doesn't help anyone.
12:36<planetmaker>(not implying that you are as bad :) )
12:38-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:39<Ammler>Celestar: my imap/pop server
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12:41<planetmaker>... well blah blah. Just wanted to say: full ack :P
12:42<sulai>hi there ;)
12:42<planetmaker>si tacuissem...
12:42-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm143.epsilon121.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:43<Swallow>=if you had been silent?
12:44<yorick>quite.
12:46<Swallow>Also I'd like to report a minor cargodest issue...
12:46<Swallow>Moving a station does not update the route cache
12:47<yorick>Celestar: ping @ Swallow
12:47-!-De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-181-182.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd
12:47<yorick>acceptance change should
12:47<planetmaker>[18:43] <Swallow> =if you had been silent? <-- yeah. Been talking rubish and that too much :P
12:48<yorick>what?
12:48<@Celestar>yorick: ?
12:48<yorick>Swallow> Moving a station does not update the route cache
12:50-!-KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd
12:51<yorick>KUDr, we missed you and all :)
12:51<@Celestar>KUDr: :o
12:51<@Celestar>hi :D
12:51-!-Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.166.253.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:52<KUDr>hello
12:52<yorick>is this the part where we turn out to be missing another kudr?
12:52<KUDr>heh, who missed me and why?
12:52<yorick>2/3 of the channel
12:52<@Celestar>me for example
12:53<Ammler>how would the nightly server show OSX builds, when they are there?
12:53<KUDr>huh, really? I would tell that 2/3 don't know me
12:53<Ammler>like Linux: linux-generic-i686
12:53<yorick>Celestar for example
12:53<ln>i think KUDr was last mentioned when the explicit destructor calls were under discussion.
12:53<KUDr>:) yes, Celestak knows me well
12:53<KUDr>r
12:53<yorick>celestar makes up 2/3 of the channel by his own
12:53<@Belugas>too humble :) they all know who you are, your name is on our About ;)
12:53<@Celestar>@seen KUDr
12:53<@DorpsGek>Celestar: KUDr was last seen in #openttd 1 second ago: <KUDr> r
12:53<@Rubidium>Ammler: like osx I think
12:54<@Celestar>ln: I think you are right
12:54<Ammler>that short?
12:54<@Rubidium>are there many OSX flavours?
12:54<@Rubidium>Ammler: or should we call it osx-crappy-stupid-apple-will-not-work-on-intel-leotard-because-they-got-annoyed
12:55<Ammler>hehe, yeah, I take that :-)
12:56<@Rubidium>anyhow, they'll be called just like the releases are called
12:56<@Rubidium>just like for the other OSes
12:57<Ammler>oh, there are osxs already
13:00-!-mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
13:05<Brianetta>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=729187#p729187
13:05<Brianetta>There we go.
13:05<Brianetta>I'm off home.
13:05-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-70-101.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
13:05<@Celestar>I've gotta go
13:07-!-sleepman424 [~evanseeds@lawn-128-61-127-87.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #openttd
13:08*peter1138 returns.
13:09-!-sleepman424 is now known as lilman424
13:10<@peter1138>Hmm well...
13:14-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:14<Ammler>is there also a "locical" way from finger to the repos?
13:15<@peter1138>What is 'locical'?
13:16-!-Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
13:16<Ammler>:-) that might be the question...
13:17<yorick>rephrase?
13:19<Ammler>the custom repos seems be made randomly...
13:20<@peter1138>Logical, do you mean, maybe?
13:21<Ammler>ah. yep.
13:25<yorick>http://www.tt-forums.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=21088 <-- I would not mind if he was banned from the openttd section, he keeps bumping old topics
13:26<lilman424>i downloaded what i believe to be the latest version of the OpenGFX rail vehicles, and the wood and steel trucks have some nice pretty white lines on the / diagonal
13:29<Ammler>lilman424: check the 8bpp topic and report it, if not already done...
13:29<lilman424>k
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13:34<Wolf01>hello
13:35<ln>ciaö
13:35-!-Jezral [~projectjj@85.27.135.237] has joined #openttd
13:37<Ammler>lilman424: I reported something similar, but I guess, current process is stocked because of License questions...
13:37<yorick>I don't see their problems...
13:38-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g226219009.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:38-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
13:39<@peter1138>stocked?
13:39<Ammler>oh, is that also wrong?
13:39-!-TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@85.27.135.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:39<SmatZ>yorick: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=39523 <== here you can see their problems
13:39<Ammler>mäh, I have no dictionary currently :-)
13:39<yorick>:-p
13:40<Ammler>well, but stocked isn't that wrong, is it?
13:40<Ammler>like paused...
13:40-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:42-!-Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen
13:42*peter1138 listens to Mogwai - Rock Action
13:43<yorick>"Commercial use by OpenTTD - Very happy" NEVER put OpenTTD and commercial together on the same line
13:43<Ammler>why?
13:44<yorick>OpenTTD != commercial
13:44<Ammler>I have pressed already some CDs :P
13:44<SmatZ>[19:44:09] <yorick> OpenTTD != commercial <== you just "put OpenTTD and commercial together on the same line"
13:44<yorick>!= is exception
13:45<Ammler>who would stop you from selling OpenTTD?
13:45<yorick>the gpl?
13:45<Ammler>you might need to read it...
13:46<yorick>heh
13:47<yorick>what kind of sprite sorter puts aqueducts behind dock roofs?
13:49<yorick>what kind of sprite sorter doesn't see the difference between canal sprites and aqueduct sprites?
13:51<sulai>Hey guys... I think there is a little bug in web translator2, which keeps me from updating the german translation
13:52<sulai>with who could I talk about that?
13:52<yorick>mihamix
13:52<sulai>is he often here in #openttd?
13:53<yorick>yes
13:53<@peter1138>No he's not.
13:53<@peter1138>@seen mihamix
13:53<@DorpsGek>peter1138: mihamix was last seen in #openttd 34 weeks, 6 days, 21 hours, 31 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <MiHaMiX> s/t$/d/
13:53<yorick>he doest say much
13:53<yorick>@seen miham
13:53<@DorpsGek>yorick: I have not seen miham.
13:53<sulai>okay... I'll send him a mail
13:53<yorick>try #openttd.wt2
13:53<sulai>I will do
13:53<@Belugas># HEAD DOWN
13:54<planetmaker>@seen miham*
13:54<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: miham* could be MiHaMeK (32 weeks, 4 days, 23 hours, 6 minutes, and 59 seconds ago) or MiHaMiX (34 weeks, 6 days, 21 hours, 32 minutes, and 30 seconds ago)
13:55<sulai>he is in #openttd.wt2
13:55<yorick>he always is
13:59<sulai>Maybe you guys can help me too
13:59<sulai>In the german lang file, when using:
13:59<sulai>{G "einen " "eine " "ein " ""}
14:00<sulai>this should accepted by OTTD as "G" with 4 parameters, shouldn't it?
14:00<sulai>does it?
14:00<sulai>note the space after the word "einen"
14:02<@Rubidium>well, strgen doesn't support that
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14:03<sulai>Rubidium it does not? hm... this is interesting
14:04<@Rubidium>have you actually tried it in strgen first?
14:05<sulai>I've just compiled it using mingw... that worked fine
14:06<@Rubidium>ah, shouldn't add a gender too as that breaks the file on many places
14:07<sulai>we've updated all occurences of {G ...}
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14:24<Prof_Frink>Aargh!
14:24<Prof_Frink>I do believe that's the first time I've had to do that in #openttd.
14:24<@peter1138>What, "Aargh!" ?
14:25<Prof_Frink>Yes.
14:26<@peter1138>Why as that required?
14:27<Prof_Frink>For reasons older than openttd.
14:28<@peter1138>And I shall go Aargh! at sites that now require VBV :o
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15:08<yorick>r14332 is also going to be backported to 0.6?
15:09<@Belugas>dunno. i don't know how the savegame bump will affect 0.6 vs nightlies
15:09<@Belugas>not to me to tell, honestly
15:09<@Belugas>THOSE who KNOW
15:09<@Belugas>plus, it's not as much a bug as it is a re-balancing ;)
15:09<frosch123>could be 0.6.5 :p
15:10<@peter1138>14332? Nope.
15:10<@peter1138>It's not a bug-fix per-se.
15:10<@peter1138>It's a "OMG I DON'T LIKE THIS BEHAVIOUR" fix
15:11<yorick>it is a "fix"
15:11<@Belugas>nope
15:11<@Belugas>it was noted as fix
15:11<yorick>then I call it a "fix"
15:11<@peter1138>Should be a -Feature
15:11<@Belugas>but i had no iead on how to call it
15:11<@peter1138>But, never mind.
15:12<@peter1138>80GB!
15:12<@Belugas>-Rebalancing(BiggerMaps):
15:12<@Belugas>the valid keywords are...
15:12<Forked>someone make a song about peter and his gigabytes..
15:12<@Rubidium>peter1138: how many gigabits to go?
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15:32<welshdragon>that was a busy join/part period
15:32<Forked>who won?
15:32<@Bjarni>you
15:33<Forked>that's not fair, I always win
15:33<@Bjarni>not you, you
15:33-!-rortom_ [~rortom@p57B7E503.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:33<@Bjarni>damn
15:33<@Bjarni>now the winner left
15:34<sulai>I'm not sure, is this a bug: when I enable "show building tools when no suitable vehicles are available", then I can't build stuff like monorail 1950. Is something else meant by this setting, or is this setting broken?
15:34<murray>http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
15:35<Forked>pretty old by now that link :)
15:35<murray>oh :p
15:35<@Bjarni>murray: fake :P
15:35<murray>no way ! :p
15:35<@Bjarni>it's not live
15:36<@Bjarni>it happened several days ago
15:36<SmatZ>sulai: no bug
15:36<murray>yeah but because of a time rift
15:36<murray>we see it now
15:36<Forked>I thought the rift was in Cardiff (source: Torchwood, Doctor Who spinoff series)
15:36<sulai>SmatZ: what is meant by this setting then?
15:37<SmatZ>sulai: it disables docks and such
15:37<SmatZ>when you can't build ships
15:37<sulai>oh, okay
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16:27<@peter1138>81GB!
16:28<Noldo>of what?
16:28<@Bjarni>txt files
16:28<@Bjarni>handwritten
16:28<Noldo>ooooh
16:29-!-Tim_ [~Tim@p5B37F219.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:29<@Bjarni>I know a guy who filled a 20 mb HD with plain text files
16:29<@Bjarni>well, one mb was used for the text editor and the OS
16:29-!-FR^2 [~frquadrat@oscar.frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...]
16:29<@peter1138>millibit?
16:29<@Bjarni>*MB
16:30<ln>can't dereference a non-pointer
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16:37*Belugas grabs his stuff and prepare to go home
16:38<@peter1138>Headphones!
16:39-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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16:41*Belugas leaves his headphones on his desk for peter1138 to grab them
16:42<@Belugas>don't need them for today, bye bye :)
16:42<@Belugas>good eveningi/night
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16:43<Ammler>how do I update to the hg revison hc23c4457?
16:43<@peter1138>hg update -r c23c4457 or something?
16:43<Ammler>didn't work
16:44<Ammler>might it be, because it isn't the whole rev string?
16:44<@peter1138>Less of the commas
16:45<Wolf01>'night
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16:46<Eddi|zuHause><Ammler> can I change the delimeter now only with custom currency? <- yes, currently only the currency separator can be changed. also, my patch doesn't touch currencies at all.
16:47<Eddi|zuHause><Celestar> ok yapp, cargodest, IS, newgrf_ports, railtypes, roadtypes ... maybe the next revision should be 0.8 :P <- throw in really_open_and_free_gfx and you can call it 1.0 ;)
16:47<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause!
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>that's me
16:50<Ammler>does america also use "," as 1000er delimeter?
16:50<Brianetta>yes
16:51<Ammler>and britain, I assume?
16:51<@peter1138>Yes.
16:51<@peter1138>Because . is the decimal point...
16:51<@peter1138>Delimiter, of course.
16:52<Ammler>we use also . as decimal delimiter but single quote (') as 1000er...
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16:55<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: since you told about I need now the custom currency, never had problems before with those commans :P
16:55<Ammler>-s
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>i've used custom currency for ages
16:55-!-rortom_ [~rortom@p57B7E503.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>ever since the € used , as delimiter...
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>hm... 17,92€... that's not gonna last long...
16:57<Ammler>well, the custom currency is ok, so I can life if you patch for germans :-)
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>well, the next thing would be a patch to use a language other than english as fallback
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>then you can make a de_CH localisation without doing a full translation
16:58-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad00e82.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>untranslated strings would then fall back to the regular german
17:00<@peter1138>de_AMMLER
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17:17*dih hugs SmatZ
17:18<dih>peter1138, not such a wise idea :-P
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17:20<@peter1138>Surely not, Dihedral.
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17:49<sulai>using mingw i get a compilation error when trying to compile the latest revision
17:49<sulai>aircraft_cmd.o:aircraft_cmd.cpp:(.text+0x5622): undefined reference to `EngineReplacement(EngineRenew*, unsigned short, unsigned short)'
17:49<Phantasm>Hmmn.. 12 seconds to generate 2048x2048 map on sub-arctic with hard difficulity setting.
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>[15.09.2008 20:00] <sulai> note the space after the word "einen"
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>[15.09.2008 20:03] <Rubidium> well, strgen doesn't support that
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>i've not seen any problems with it... why would strgen not tell that it has problems with that?
17:55<sulai>did you actually test that message in question in-game? did it work?
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i tested it (although a while back)
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>like i said, the diff is over half a year old
17:57<+glx><sulai> using mingw i get a compilation error when trying to compile the latest revision <-- trunk?
17:57<sulai>yes
17:58<+glx>works for me
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>you could work around that problem, because vehicle types don't actually occur in plural, but that would indeed be "hacky"
17:59<+glx>sulai: make clean should solve it
17:59-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:59<sulai>glx: strange... i tried make clean and ./configure, but it didn't work after that, too
17:59<sulai>glx: are you using mingw too?
17:59<+glx>yes
17:59<+glx>and my 3 trunks compiled
18:01<sulai>Eddi|zuHause: we now added the string like this:
18:01<sulai>{GOLD}Wir haben {G "einen" "eine" "ein" ""} neue{G n "" s ""} {0:STRING} entwickelt. {}Sind Sie daran interessiert, {G 0 den die das die} {0:STRING} ein Jahr lang exklusiv zu nutzen, so dass wir die Funktionen testen können, bevor {G 0 er sie es sie} allgemein zur Verfügung gestellt {G 0 wird wird wird werden}?
18:01<sulai>it *is* kind of hacky
18:02<sulai>if ottd supported strings like "eine ", then we should use it
18:02<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: later I said that it was a mistake of me trying to test it
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>ah, so it really should work...
18:03<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: so strgen works, but WT2 doesn't and I don't have any hope in getting WT2 fixed
18:03<@Rubidium>looked at it and failed to find where the error is actually created
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>well, i have no way to test WT2 ;)
18:03<+glx>WT2 source is hard to read
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not even a translator
18:04<sulai>Rubidium: maybe this single string can be put into german.txt by someone who has direct access to german.txt
18:04<sulai>...to svn
18:05<SmatZ>hello dih :)
18:05<@Rubidium>and then find out that WT2 doesn't want to understand it when importing trunk?
18:05<@Rubidium>and thus reverting the string again in trunk (like it has done before)
18:05<sulai>originally the string should look like this:
18:05<sulai>+STR_8101_WE_HAVE_JUST_DESIGNED_A :{GOLD}Wir haben {G "einen " "eine " "ein " ""}neue{G n "" s ""} {0:STRING} entwickelt. {}Sind Sie daran interessiert, {G 0 den die das die} {0:STRING} ein Jahr lang exklusiv zu nutzen, so dass wir die Funktionen testen können, bevor {G 0 er sie es sie} allgemein zur Verfügung gestellt {G 0 wird wird wird werden}?
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>that was "fun" :p
18:06<@Rubidium>sulai: if WT2 breaks on it while entering it manually, it'll break even harder when entering it via SVN
18:07<sulai>hm... ok
18:08<@Rubidium>though I've heard that some people are working on a replacement for WT2
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>well, the extra space in the string is not hurting as long as nobody introduces a plural vehicle type ;)
18:09<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: do those exist?
18:09<sulai>Rubidium: not until now
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>not currently... in my diff, the only word using the "plural gender" is "oil wells"
18:10<@Rubidium>you could also consider using cases instead of using genders
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>as in "oil wells ARE built" vs. "industry IS built"... the other gender changes are only because there has to be the same number of genders everywhere
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>cases are the wrong way around
18:11<@Rubidium>that sucks
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>cases are properties from the outside influencing an inside string, where genders are a property of the inside string influencing the outside string
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>but maybe i have studied too much language theory :p
18:15<welshdragon>yo Devs: feature for next nightly/stable in multiplayer games: administrators can reset company passwords
18:16*welshdragon forgot his password and has now lost his company
18:16<+glx>use autoclean
18:17<welshdragon>to get rid of the company?
18:17<+glx>there are 2 steps
18:17<welshdragon>no, i just want to have the password reset
18:17-!-Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:17<@Rubidium>where step 1 is removing the password from unpopulated companies
18:18<welshdragon>hmm?
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>1. remove password
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>2. ???
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>3. profit!
18:19<Phantasm>Hmmn.. OTTD sound effects cause errors to foobar2000 music playback.
18:20<@Rubidium>step 2 is removing the company
18:20<welshdragon>Rubidium, i don't want the company removing
18:21-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:21<welshdragon>it is worth £3 million
18:21<Tefad>hehe fb2k rocks.
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>hm... either the timer of KSudoku overflows, or it pauses while minimised
18:21-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>it says i finished a sudoku in 219 minutes even though i started it like 2 days ago
18:21<@Rubidium>welshdragon: it isn't going to remove the password and immediatelly remove the company too
18:21-!-Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>welshdragon: it just means you have to interrupt it before it gets to step 2
18:22<welshdragon>aah
18:22<welshdragon>how long does that give mr?
18:22<welshdragon>me even
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>welshdragon: at least 1 month
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>or day?
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>not sure
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>depends on setting ;)
18:23<welshdragon>Brianetta, you heard the men: let's go! to the standard server!
18:24-!-reldred|gone is now known as reldred
18:24-!-Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:24<Chrill>Brianetta, look on #tycoon please, kthanks
18:25<Brianetta>Chrill: Don't make me harm you
18:25<TrueBrain>Brianetta: can you also check my dishes please?
18:25<welshdragon>Chrill, don't make him harm you :P]
18:25<Phantasm>Any way to turn of all sounds whatsoever in OTTD?
18:25<Chrill>welshdragon, don't make me harm Eoin
18:25<Brianetta>TrueBrain: They're fine.
18:25<TrueBrain>Phantasm: start with -snull
18:26<Brianetta>They're plural.
18:26<TrueBrain>Brianetta: tnx!
18:26<TrueBrain>:)
18:26<Brianetta>(:
18:26<TrueBrain>that's for sure ..
18:27<TrueBrain>in my case a double plural wouldn't even cover it ..
18:27<TrueBrain>(I didn't do the dishes for like 3 weeks :p)
18:27<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: I let Truus do them
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>where did you cat so many dishes?
18:27<Brianetta>welshdragon: You want me to autoclean the server?
18:27<Phantasm>TrueBrain: Thx.
18:27<TrueBrain>Rubidium: can she come here too?
18:27<welshdragon>please :P
18:27<Brianetta>No.
18:27<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: in a box! :)
18:27<TrueBrain>(serious, they are in a box)
18:27<Brianetta>*All* protected, unoccupied companies will lose their passwords.
18:28<Brianetta>Not just yours.
18:28<@Rubidium>with some gdb magic you should be able to reset passwords too
18:28<Brianetta>Rubidium: I used to be able to use that to get them
18:28<Brianetta>but they're hashed now
18:28<Brianetta>apparently, there were plans to put them into the saved game
18:29<Brianetta>but this wasn't completed
18:29<Brianetta>so Eoin and welshdragon are, in a word, unemployed. Out of their company.
18:30-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:30<TrueBrain>bah, working with git for like 2 minutes, and I hate it already. .. complete lack of clearness ..
18:30<ln>http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/09/the_short_but_eventful_life_of.html
18:30<welshdragon>Brianetta, i shall go round and give them all the password dradnats
18:30<Brianetta>welshdragon: And how will you tell the owners?
18:31<welshdragon>by sitting on the server
18:31-!-grumbel [~grumbel@i577BB99F.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
18:31<+glx><Brianetta> apparently, there were plans to put them into the saved game <-- IIRC the plan was to never put them in the savegame
18:31<Brianetta>They'll try to connect, but own't be able to join their company
18:31<+glx>but maybe in an extra file
18:31-!-Sacro_ is now known as Sacsro
18:31<Brianetta>glx: No; this would reveal them. But I'm told that this is why they got hashed.
18:31-!-Sacsro is now known as Sacro
18:32<welshdragon>Sacro, stop being a 'tard]
18:32<Sacro>?
18:32<Sacro>at least I remember my passwords
18:32<Prof_Frink>welshdragon: He can't help it.
18:33<welshdragon>Sacro, I bloody told Eoin the pasword, but he was ignoring me
18:33-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:34<Brianetta>I think it's hilarious that you trusted the password only to an ephemeral, unlogged in-game private message. (:
18:34<welshdragon>what? can you see it :P
18:34<Brianetta>No I can't
18:34<Brianetta>It was ephemeral, it was unlogged, and it was private
18:35<welshdragon>oh damn it
18:35*welshdragon fumbles through his passwords list
18:35<Brianetta>I can give you the hash, if you like
18:35<welshdragon>go on...
18:35<Brianetta>Give me a minute
18:36<TrueBrain>you get 2! :)
18:36*welshdragon gives him 30 seconds
18:37<Brianetta>What's the gdb command to dump core?
18:37*Rubidium gives Brianetta the 30th minute
18:39*welshdragon gives Brianetta 24 hours
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>if you can get the hash, can't you replace it with something known?
18:43<Brianetta>no
18:43<@Rubidium>Brianetta: I seem to remember giving you the command but I can't remember, nor find it in the logs
18:43<Brianetta>I grab the core, run it through strings, an dscan fo rthe data by eye
18:43<Brianetta>Rubidium: I've done it in the past, many times, but can't find it in my history
18:44<@Rubidium>dump memory?
18:44<@Rubidium>maybe generate-core-file
18:45<Phantasm>Full load any cargo seems to work as full load all with airplanes.
18:45<Phantasm>Newest nightly build.. Is that intentional or bug? ;P
18:45<@Rubidium>intentional
18:46<@Rubidium>otherwise it'd leave with mail and no passengers
18:46<Brianetta>generate-core-file
18:46<Brianetta>win
18:46<Phantasm>Rubidium: No way for full load mail + load any passengers there are?
18:46<@Rubidium>any cargo works like full load passengers for aircraft
18:46<Brianetta>welshdragon: 15abe622d0763b7c262927881b05980a
18:47<@Rubidium>Phantasm: nope
18:47<Brianetta>Wait, why are the company passwords hashed, but not the server password nor the rcon password?
18:47<welshdragon>ok......
18:47<Brianetta>welshdragon: It's likely MD5
18:47*TrueBrain figures out welshdragon's password :)
18:48<welshdragon>TrueBrain, go for it
18:48<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: first acquire the correct seed
18:48<TrueBrain>Rubidium: well, in 12 years I know! :)
18:49<Brianetta>"15abe622d0763b7c262927881b05980a not found in our open database."
18:50<TrueBrain>Brianetta: I got the same :p
18:50<Brianetta>TrueBrain: Would you happen to know if they're salted hashes?
18:50<@Rubidium>Brianetta: they are
18:50<welshdragon>was that sarcasm?
18:50<Brianetta>That wasn't.
18:51<Brianetta>Salting makes it a few orders of magnitude more difficult to crack.
18:51<@Rubidium>salt made of a server specific part and a game specific part
18:51<welshdragon>ouch
18:52<Brianetta>Well, I have a core dump...
18:52<@Rubidium>though a client can easily request that data
18:53<Brianetta>Can a core dump be used to continue execution of a program after a reboot>
18:53<Brianetta>?
18:53<Brianetta>That'd be cool
18:53<Brianetta>I suppose the file handles would be all screwed
18:53*Brianetta searches
18:53<sulai>Rubidium: though a client can easily request that data <- maybe a little off-topic: what about making ottd downloading the required NewGrf files from the server too
18:53<Brianetta>score
18:53<Brianetta>http://cryopid.berlios.de/
18:54<TrueBrain>Brianetta: there are tools that 'suspend' an application
18:54<TrueBrain>and allow resuming later
18:54<Brianetta>Yes, I just found one (:
18:54<TrueBrain>fails mostly on /dev access
18:54<DaleStan>sulai: That has been suggested several dozen times before. Try searching the forums, please. And the IRC logs, though I'm not sure if that'll be as helpful
18:55<TrueBrain>well, the tests I did on it anyway :p
18:56*SmatZ bashes himself for "it's" in r14336 commit message...
18:56<Brianetta>sulai: Main gist is, newgrfs aren't ours to automatically distribute.
18:56<TrueBrain>Rubidium: xor'd, bah :p
18:56<TrueBrain>(salt, that is)
18:56<sulai>Brianetta: oh, I see
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>sulai: that's like building a filesharing client into a video player
18:58<Brianetta>Other games which do this sort of thing, did this sort of thing before any add-ons were made, and made it clear then that files would be subject to distribution.
18:58<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: That's a genius idea.
18:59<Brianetta>Newgrf authors have no such prior notice.
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>well, german copyright does allow "temporary" copying of copyrighted data that is technically required for "playback"
19:00-!-reldred is now known as reldred|gone
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>(which usually means copying into ram of some sort)
19:01<sulai>so, what about adding a flag die GRF files, which indicade that the author allows automatic distribution
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>sulai: that is genious. why did no previous suggestor think of this?
19:02-!-Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
19:02<sulai>I assume this was ironic, eddi?
19:02-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:02<Brianetta>sulai: Been suggested.
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>no. :p
19:02*SmatZ 's irony-meter goes out of the scale!
19:02<sulai>hm, okay then... I'd better be off to work ;P
19:03-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
19:03<Brianetta>It's just never going to happen.
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>at 1AM? you have weird work times
19:03<Brianetta>We might as well leave it there (:
19:04<sulai>If i was a GRF author, I would set this flag because then it gets more distributed and more people play it ;)
19:05<sulai>howerver :X
19:05<welshdragon>sigh
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>http://dejure.org/gesetze/UrhG/44a.html
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>if you interprete that paragraph very freely, that would include copying of newgrfs together with the map
19:06<SmatZ>sulai: there is the argument that modifying a grf and adding such a flag isn't a hard process
19:06<TrueBrain>sulai: I agree with you, but sadly enough a few GRF authors are not that open minded ...
19:06<Brianetta>Blunck.
19:06<TrueBrain>SmatZ: neither is cracking a game ;) Still not very legal :)
19:06<TrueBrain>Brianetta: to name one person ;)
19:06<Brianetta>He's really managed to piss me off today.
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>although courts are known to judge these "boundaries" of copyright very strict
19:07<TrueBrain>so I read .. and that on a post of a few weeks ago ;_
19:07<Brianetta>Well, it only came to light for me today
19:07<TrueBrain>Brianetta: but you are right; from now on I will do my atmost never to use his grfs too
19:08*Rubidium also has OzTransLtd on that list
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really understand all the fuzz about MB
19:08<TrueBrain>I really really don't get it, how you can be so closed minded, that you want your grf to only work for ttdp ...
19:08<Brianetta>Eddi: He seems to hate OpenTTD beyond what I'd call reasonable
19:08<TrueBrain>like you make a car-seat and you only want it to be used in a BMW!
19:09-!-Sacro is now known as Sacrn
19:09<Brianetta>Or making an Open Office XML file format and only wanting it to run on Microsoft Office...
19:09-!-Chrill is now known as Chriln
19:09-!-Chriln is now known as Chrill
19:09<TrueBrain>Brianetta: nice example :) Sadly enough that is what is happening too ... ;)
19:10<Brianetta>Except this isn't being done by Microsoft... can you imagine Patchman endorsing this behaviour?
19:10<TrueBrain>hehe
19:10<TrueBrain>true :)
19:10<TrueBrain>I will patchman closed minded too, and most likely he would agree ;)
19:11-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
19:11-!-Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Damn, who set my alarm for 1:25am. yay for noticing it and changing it]
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>well, for "hating" OpenTTD he's doing a lot of effort to include OpenTTD-only features into his next DBSetXL version ;)
19:11-!-Sacrn is now known as Sacro
19:11<TrueBrain>+call
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>(like pre-1920 engines)
19:11<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: and how long would that work ;)
19:11<Brianetta>Well, it's after midnight local, and I need to be up for a meeting first thing
19:12<Brianetta>so it's gute Nacht from me
19:12<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: isn't that like Duke Nukem Forever?
19:12<TrueBrain>but okay, I never understood the fuzz about ttdp 'against' OpenTTD
19:12<TrueBrain>Brianetta: sleep well
19:12-!-nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yeah, but that's a different story :p
19:12<Brianetta>(:
19:13-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-70-101.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
19:13<TrueBrain>OpenTTD, ttdp, who cares, as long as you enjoy the game, not?
19:14-!-Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has joined #openttd
19:16-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...]
19:17-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:17-!-Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> saturn.oftc.net quits: reldred|gone, wgrant, Gekz
19:18-!-Netsplit over, joins: Gekz, reldred|gone, wgrant
19:18<welshdragon>TrueBrain, any luck with that password?
19:18<TrueBrain>welshdragon: I wasn't even trying
19:18<welshdragon>:'
19:18<TrueBrain>if you can't remember your own password, well ...
19:19<TrueBrain>Rubidium: how many chars is a password?
19:19<welshdragon>i blame my partner for forgetting the password, which i sent over to him in a PM
19:19<TrueBrain>and clearly you forgot it too
19:20<welshdragon>TrueBrain, if you can just figure out any of the letters
19:20<TrueBrain>I suggest using passwords like 'a' or 'b'
19:20<welshdragon>i think it was 5 characters long
19:20<TrueBrain>@calc pow(256, 5)
19:20<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 1099511627776
19:20<TrueBrain>not bad ;)
19:21<TrueBrain>welshdragon: even if you would find the original value for the md5, you will never get the seed without Brianette's help
19:21<TrueBrain>and without it, never your password
19:22<TrueBrain>and also, I don't care :p
19:22<welshdragon>thanks anyway TrueBrain,
19:22*welshdragon racks hos brains
19:22<TrueBrain>welshdragon: good luck with it ;)
19:24-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
19:27<Phantasm>Ack.. How am I supposed to get even a single city level airport with noise limit on?
19:27<Phantasm>All towns limit noise to 3, so I would have to build one insanely far away from it.
19:27<Phantasm>Even a town of 3 065 people limits noise to 3.
19:27<Phantasm>And city airport does 5 noise.
19:28<welshdragon>Phantasm, park and ride!
19:28<Phantasm>Huh?
19:29<welshdragon>create the airport a driveable distance away
19:29<welshdragon>create a bus station next to it and in the town/city centre
19:29<Phantasm>Ugh..
19:30<welshdragon>easiest solution :P
19:31-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:32<Phantasm>Seems OTTD still uses sound even with -snull parameter.. Nothing is outputted, but it is using the sound system in some way.
19:32<TrueBrain>-mnull disabled music ;)
19:32<Phantasm>I have no music files.
19:32<Phantasm>So it won't play music.
19:34-!-lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: AS A VAGINA ONCE SAID: <yorick> SOMEONE BAN HIM]
19:34<Phantasm>Same with -snull -mnull.
19:35<Phantasm>So, I can't listen to music from foobar2000 while playing OTTD at all no matter the settings.
19:35<TrueBrain>I have no problems with it what so ever :)
19:41-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
19:47<+glx>Phantasm: linux?
19:47<Phantasm>Windows server 2008 64 bit with 64 bit OTTD.
19:48<Phantasm>(Effectively Vista SP1.)
19:53<welshdragon>grr
19:54*welshdragon is pissed off
19:55<FauxFaux>Uh, why can't you have two active sound sources?
19:58-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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20:00<Progman>-s null works fine here with my audioplayer
20:01<Progman>but I cannot hear music as openttd takes so much cpu time anyway ;)
20:02<Phantasm>I have quad core.
20:06-!-lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
20:06<+glx>so 3 cores are free
20:06<SmatZ>:-)
20:07*welshdragon throws a brick at Brianetta's server
20:07-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad103d2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:08-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad34843.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
20:08<welshdragon>i wish i didn't have to set passwords that had to be generic.. that way i wouldn't forget them :(
20:09<welshdragon>there's a jam at one of my old stations and it pains me to look at it :'(
20:16-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BBA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:16-!-rortom_ [~rortom@p57B7E503.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:18-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@147.251.215.232] has quit [Quit: Quit]
20:22<welshdragon>lol, i /kill'd the conversation
20:24<Phantasm>;P
20:25*welshdragon throws another brick at Brianetta's server
20:26<welshdragon>if i throw enough bricks do you think it will reset my password?
20:27<valhallasw>I doubt it
20:27<valhallasw>it will probaby just say *plonk* and continue
20:28<welshdragon>aww
20:30<@Belugas>or break your screen
20:30<@Belugas>which would not help ya
20:31*Belugas is fooling aorund with some objects loader
20:31<welshdragon>Belugas, i wouldn't mind, but i offered to even reset the other company passwords too, so they didn't get eleted
20:32<welshdragon>*deleted
20:32<welshdragon>and sit on the server sending out notices
20:32-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B769AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
20:32*Belugas will cry for you :)
20:33-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76FC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
20:33<welshdragon>so inmy anger, i shalll go to bed
20:34<welshdragon>Belugas, please look at implementing a way for server administrators to reset company passwords easily, without actualle cleaning the server. kthanks
20:35-!-welshdragon [~vista@host86-145-214-136.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has left #openttd [i need sleep. and more bricks to throw at Brianetta's server]
20:36<ln>intro to LHC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM
20:37<murray>live LHC cam: http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
20:37<murray>posted here earlier
20:37<ln>that's a fake, the intro is not
20:38<murray>the intro is not?
20:38<ln>not fake
20:39<murray>it's not fake
20:39<murray>the intro
20:39<murray>..
20:41<ln>echo?
20:43<murray>^^
20:43<murray>sorry
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21:02-!-pleeby is now known as bleepy
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22:01<@Belugas>why do we have to always find ways to do stuff for server admins???
22:01*Belugas goes to bed
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22:51-!-reldred|gone is now known as reldred
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 15 22:55:40 2008
---Logopened Mon Sep 15 23:01:04 2008
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23:01-!-Irssi: #openttd: Total of 36 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 35 normal]
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23:01<Phantasm>Nice mass autokilling...
23:02-!-dih [~dih@members.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
23:02<peter>:)
23:02<ccfreak2k>Someone on #defocus at freenode says someone/something got juped.
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23:06-!-ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | We Love YAPP | THIS
23:06<peter>THIS!
23:06-!-Bergee is now known as Guest36
23:06<ccfreak2k>Was that there before?
23:07<peter>Something about psychics.
23:08<roboboy>!logs
23:09*roboboy wonders what just happened
23:10<roboboy>I got banned from the network for about a minute
23:10<ccfreak2k>Everyone did.
23:10<roboboy>ok
23:11<ccfreak2k>From #oftc: "yes there was another akill *@* sorry"
23:11<roboboy>ok
23:11<peter>It was ~xxx@*, but...
23:11<roboboy>I wonder why
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23:53<peter:#openttd>87GB!
23:54<peter:#openttd>Oh, that's what's wrong.
23:54-!-peter is now known as peter1138
---Logclosed Tue Sep 16 00:00:57 2008