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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-09-17

---Logopened Wed Sep 17 00:00:42 2008
00:09<Forked:#openttd>Good morning
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01:06<HaloMaster:#openttd>oh wow. OpenTTD got on Side A of the PCPowerPlay Mag in Aus.
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01:09<HaloMaster:#openttd>hi PB
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01:14<lilman424:#openttd>what's the difference between tractive effort and HP?
01:14<HaloMaster:#openttd>not sure
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01:43<Pikkaa:#openttd>power is force * velocity...
01:44<Pikkaa:#openttd>so, broadly speaking, for a given amount of power you can trade off between force (TE) and velocity (speed)
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01:56<lilman424:#openttd>so how does it make sense that two vehicles with the same speed.
01:56<lilman424:#openttd>one has a higher power, but a lower TE
02:08<Pikka:#openttd>TE is also a function of weight
02:08<Pikka:#openttd>a heavier vehicle will have higher TE
02:12<@peter1138:#openttd>105GB!
02:13<Pikka:#openttd>lies
02:13*Pikka:#openttd tf2
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02:44<roboboy:#openttd>fixing a problem with mibbit
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02:45<roboboy:#openttd>fixing a problem with mibbit
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02:45<roboboy:#openttd>fixing a problem with mibbit
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02:55<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain: you OSX-intel binary works on OS-X 10.4 (Tiger). Great :)
02:57<@peter1138:#openttd>It'll turn out that zlib prevented it from working all along ;)
03:02<ccfreak2k:#openttd>It was zlib all along!
03:02<ccfreak2k:#openttd>(dun dun duuuuuuuun)
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03:18<planetmaker:#openttd>[08:57] <peter1138> It'll turn out that zlib prevented it from working all along ;) <--- yes. But it works as much as TB announced he would like it to see working :)
03:18<@peter1138:#openttd>THAT WAS A JOKE
03:19<planetmaker:#openttd>sorry, still not entirely awake :S
03:20<HaloMaster:#openttd>lol PM
03:20<roboboy:#openttd>where can I find the thread about 0.6.2
03:29<@Rubidium:#openttd>roboboy: in the search maybe?
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03:30<@Rubidium:#openttd>though searching using google with a proper search query gives you a quicker result
03:31<@Rubidium:#openttd>s/quicker/better/
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03:51<Ammler:#openttd>good morning all
03:51<Ammler:#openttd>temp/forAmmler can be removed, thanks :-)
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03:56<HaloMaster:#openttd>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Wd-Q3F8KM
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03:59<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>why should we click on random links from strangers?
03:59<HaloMaster:#openttd>it is actually funny
04:00-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd
04:01<HaloMaster:#openttd>http://preview.tinyurl.com/5gl7l4
04:01<HaloMaster:#openttd>thats a tinyurl preview of it
04:04<@peter1138:#openttd>107GB!
04:04<HaloMaster:#openttd>peter1138: of what?
04:04<@Rubidium:#openttd>4 GB to go!
04:04<HaloMaster:#openttd>?
04:04<@Rubidium:#openttd>HaloMaster: of individually copied bytes
04:06<Ammler:#openttd>I have a Mercurial confusion, how do I determine, which revision is taken for a certain custom build as i see only the first 8 chars?
04:06<HaloMaster:#openttd>from what?
04:06<@peter1138:#openttd>hg tip
04:07<Ammler:#openttd>peter1138: from the compile farm or from the server I like to join...
04:07<@peter1138:#openttd>Er...
04:07<Ammler:#openttd>do I need to "tip" all revisions, until I find the right one?
04:08<@peter1138:#openttd>You take the revision that matches...
04:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hg view
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04:11<Ammler:#openttd>hg view does help to browse through the mercurial commits, so I will find the matching revisioin better...
04:11<Ammler:#openttd>but it seems not to help for searching...
04:12<@peter1138:#openttd>I don't really know what the *real* question is.
04:13<Ammler:#openttd>if I hg pull/up the cargo dest branch, I haven't the same revision as the coop test server.
04:13<Ammler:#openttd>the rev I see from the server is hc23c4457, how can I up to there noe?
04:13<Ammler:#openttd>now
04:14<@peter1138:#openttd>ssh backup1
04:14<@peter1138:#openttd>er
04:15<@Rubidium:#openttd>Ammler: curl http://binaries.openttd.org/custom/cargodest/$name/changelog.txt | head -n 1 | sed s/.*//
04:16<@Rubidium:#openttd>but that's the lame way
04:16<@peter1138:#openttd>hg update (revision) should work.
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04:17<blathijs:#openttd>Ammler: The first part of a hg hash is also sufficient as a revision, you can just use it in place of a full hash
04:17<blathijs:#openttd>Ammler: But you should remove the first "h", since it is not part of the hash (and hg doesn't understand it)
04:18<blathijs:#openttd>so you can probably do "hg update c23c4457" and it should work (not sure, never used hg)
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04:21<Ammler:#openttd>doesn't, that's why I ask.
04:21<Ammler:#openttd>well, I try again, maybe I did something wrong...
04:22<@peter1138:#openttd>Clealry.
04:23<Ammler:#openttd>:P
04:23<@peter1138:#openttd>$ hg update c23c4457
04:23<@peter1138:#openttd>99 files updated, 0 files merged, 3 files removed, 0 files unresolved
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04:23<@peter1138:#openttd>$ hg tip
04:23<@peter1138:#openttd>changeset: 19901:2d7ff353056f
04:23<@peter1138:#openttd>hehe
04:24<@peter1138:#openttd>There's your problem
04:24<@peter1138:#openttd>The version detection doesn't work.
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04:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that was reported previously, it always takes the tip, not the working copy
04:25<@peter1138:#openttd>$ hg parents
04:25<@peter1138:#openttd>changeset: 19837:c23c445783d6
04:26<@peter1138:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause, I fail to see a bug report on flyspray.
04:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>well, it was not my report...
04:28<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but i'm sure there was a lengthy discussion in here
04:29<Ammler:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: from Spcomb?
04:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i have no idea who it was
04:30<SpComb:#openttd>yes
04:30<Ammler:#openttd>well, I know, he tried to compile the same rev as our server
04:30<Ammler:#openttd>now, I see his problem :-)
04:31<@peter1138:#openttd>const char _openttd_revision[] = "hc23c4457-Mercurial Distributed SCM basic commands (use hg help for the full list or option -v for details): add add the specified files on the next commit annotate show changeset information per file line clone make a copy of an existing repository commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes diff diff repository (or selected files) export dump the header and diffs for o
04:31<@peter1138:#openttd>Tee hee
04:32<SpComb:#openttd>uuuh
04:32<SpComb:#openttd>I suspect find-version.sh needs a bit of work :)
04:32<@peter1138:#openttd>My version of hg does not support hg branch...
04:33<@peter1138:#openttd>(And Debian stable is not that uncommon)
04:34<Ammler:#openttd>as Workstation?
04:35<SpComb:#openttd>peter1138: by debian stable hg supports branch
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04:35<SpComb:#openttd>it doesn't show up in `hg help`, but it's still there
04:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>how the hell can i have conflicts in galician.txt?
04:41<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hg status does not show conflicts :(
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04:57<@peter1138:#openttd>SpComb: it does not for me.
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05:49<Rich:#openttd>Hello all, this is my first time on IRC so apologies if I do something wrong!
05:50<Rich:#openttd>As Zephyris from the tt forums I am looking for someone to put together a list of advantages/disadvantages for the various OpenGFX licenses...
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05:52<Brianetta:#openttd>Rich: Be more specific.
05:52<Brianetta:#openttd>What are the (potential) OpenGFX licenses?
05:52-!-thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: It's all over.]
05:52<Brianetta:#openttd>Also, be aware that you're asking for legal advice.
05:52<Rich:#openttd>So the ones being considered are GPL, CC by SA and CC NC by SA
05:52<Rich:#openttd>lol yeah
05:53<Brianetta:#openttd>Well, I can say for a start that NC is out
05:53<Rich:#openttd>I would be looking for info on the potential co-distribution of different licenses
05:53<Brianetta:#openttd>Non-commercial means you can't distribute it with GPL software, which is licensed for all purposes, including ocmmercial ones
05:53<Rich:#openttd>ok
05:54<Brianetta:#openttd>The Creative Commons site has a license chooser
05:54<Rich:#openttd>ah, that may be useful
05:54<Brianetta:#openttd>btw, your work is really good
05:54<Rich:#openttd>thanks :D
05:55<Rich:#openttd>It comes down to many of the artists are unconfortable with GPL as it is not designed as an artwork license
05:55<Brianetta:#openttd>No, it isn't
05:55<Rich:#openttd>Whilst they would be happy with it may would prefer a CC license
05:55<Brianetta:#openttd>although I get around this myself by making the GIMP layers for works I release available, as "source"
05:56<Brianetta:#openttd>but my graphics tend to be photo composites
05:56<Rich:#openttd>Thats true, but the sheer quantity of source files I have makes that unfesable
05:56<Brianetta:#openttd>You don't need to publish your source directly
05:56<Rich:#openttd>Just make it available?
05:57<Brianetta:#openttd>the GPL allows you to make an offer, in writing, to provide the source on demand
05:57<Rich:#openttd>ok, thats good to know
05:57<Brianetta:#openttd>of course, and downstream distributors would need to make your source available themselves
05:57<Brianetta:#openttd>They'd be obliged to obtain the source from you before they could comply
05:58<Brianetta:#openttd>newgrfs are a fuzzy one
05:58<Brianetta:#openttd>the source is indistinct
05:58<Brianetta:#openttd>it could be that it's its own source archive
05:59<Brianetta:#openttd>but some point out that any formatting and commenting in the NFO is lost after the codec encodes it
05:59<Rich:#openttd>The GRF source would be simple for OpenGFX - the only info in the nfo is the offsets
05:59<Rich:#openttd>so imo that would not be an issue
05:59<Brianetta:#openttd>http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html
05:59<Brianetta:#openttd>That might be helpful
06:00<Ammler:#openttd>why don't Zephyris and Foobar not just decide that alone and continue to work on the GRF itself.
06:00<Ammler:#openttd>If that stupid discussion wouldn't be, the Replacment would be almost finished now.
06:00<Brianetta:#openttd>Ammler: Rich *is* Zephyris
06:00<@peter1138:#openttd>Rich, why don't you /nick Zephyris :)
06:01<Ammler:#openttd>mäh :-)
06:01<Rich:#openttd>lol, do I just type "/nick Zephyris"?
06:01<Brianetta:#openttd>yes
06:01<Forked:#openttd>yup
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06:01-!-Rich is now known as Zephyris
06:01<Zephyris:#openttd>That should save some confusion
06:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>wonderful ;)
06:01<Ammler:#openttd>sorry :-$
06:02<Brianetta:#openttd>Zephyris: That link I posted; search for "Creative C" on the page. It's near the end.
06:02*TrueBrain:#openttd needs a Mac OS X 10.5 Intel user ..
06:02<@peter1138:#openttd>Zephyris, welcome :)
06:02<Brianetta:#openttd>It describes two CC licenses that are GPL compatible, according to GNU
06:02<HaloMaster:#openttd>TrueBrain: Virtual Machine
06:02<Brianetta:#openttd>also a bunch of other licenses, just to bewilder
06:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>HaloMaster: tnx for your contribution, but it is not helping a bit
06:02<@peter1138:#openttd>HaloMaster, he'll have tried that :p
06:02<HaloMaster:#openttd>:(
06:02<@Rubidium:#openttd>HaloMaster: if that would've worked we wouldn't have needed to ask for it...
06:02<HaloMaster:#openttd>Ahhh.
06:03<HaloMaster:#openttd>hmm
06:03<Brianetta:#openttd>The Free Art license ( http://artlibre.org/licence/lal/en/ ) is interesting
06:03<HaloMaster:#openttd>Mac 10.5 you say?
06:03<HaloMaster:#openttd>intel core?
06:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>like walking in a supermarket and asking where the meat is, and someone tells bij: at the Mac Donals sir
06:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>yes, that is what I asked ...
06:03<HaloMaster:#openttd>hmm.
06:03*HaloMaster:#openttd thumbs through his old harddrives.
06:04<HaloMaster:#openttd>Nuo.
06:04<@Rubidium:#openttd>TrueBrain, more like: "I need meat" with a "use tofu" as reply
06:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>clearly you don't understand a big part of this Mac OS X word ..
06:04<HaloMaster:#openttd>i dont think i have a mac install anywhere
06:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>Rubidium: hehe, better yes ;)
06:05*TrueBrain:#openttd puts a new person on its ignore list ...
06:05<HaloMaster:#openttd>aww :(
06:06<Zephyris:#openttd>The consistent statement about Creative Commons is "Please don't use it for software or documentation, since it is incompatible with the GNU GPL and with the GNU FDL." As the GRF would just be game content does this matter? For example a GPL installer could offer you the option of using the new graphics, and download them if the used chooses yes.
06:07<Brianetta:#openttd>Zephyris: It matters which CC license. There isn't just one Creative Commons.
06:07<Zephyris:#openttd>Sorry, they say that for both CC-BY and CC-BY-SA
06:08<dih:#openttd>Zephyris: you plan on just making the grf's available to OpenTTD?
06:08<Brianetta:#openttd>Ah, I see where you mean. According to the FSF, software should be GPL, documentation should be FDL.
06:08<Brianetta:#openttd>Where the GPL and FDL aren't appropriate, CC might be.
06:08<@peter1138:#openttd>It's not documentation ;)
06:08<@peter1138:#openttd>So...
06:08<Brianetta:#openttd>It could be considered art
06:08<@peter1138:#openttd>What is distributable in Debian? ;)
06:08<Brianetta:#openttd>The Free Art License is compatible
06:09<@peter1138:#openttd>108GB!
06:09<@peter1138:#openttd>Hmm
06:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>peter1138: 12 more to go ;)
06:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Zephyris: the main trouble will be a CC-license that has "NC" in it, then a hypothetical package "openttd-gfx" could not be included in any major linux distribution
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06:10<Brianetta:#openttd>http://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html
06:10<Brianetta:#openttd>section 9
06:10<Brianetta:#openttd>"How can I tell if a license is a free software license, by Debian's standards?"
06:10*Forked:#openttd requests a poem about peter and his gigabytes ..
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06:11<Ammler:#openttd>if OpenTTD has only the pcx and nfo like they have for openttd?.grf, the GRFs can't really be "missused" for something else like T-Shirts or what ever...
06:12<Ammler:#openttd>so GPL should be ok...
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06:12<Zephyris:#openttd>The problem with GPL is that whilst it works it is not directly an artistic/content license leaving a lot of ambiguities
06:12<Ammler:#openttd>if someone like to make something "not-grfish", he has still to ask you.
06:13<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Forked: but please make sure it's not vogonic poetry
06:13<Zephyris:#openttd>hmm
06:13<Ammler:#openttd>the source will be: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/extra/ottd_grf
06:13<Zephyris:#openttd>I'm afraid I have to go out now, how do I show myself as away?
06:13<Brianetta:#openttd>GPL isn't good for non-software. Debian's arguments to the contrary notwithstanding.
06:13<dih:#openttd>Zephyris: /away
06:13<Brianetta:#openttd>Zephyris: Just type /away reason
06:14<Brianetta:#openttd>where reason is a reason
06:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Zephyris: my favourite would be CC-BY-SA, but i don't really have a say in this matter :)
06:14<Ammler:#openttd>(don't reaname) :-)
06:14<Zephyris:#openttd>thanks, ttyl guys!
06:15<Brianetta:#openttd>He's not here right now (:
06:15<Forked:#openttd>eddi: heheh
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06:18<Nite_Owl:#openttd>There once was a guy named Peter / who kept an eye on his gigabyte meter. / When it was done / He thought he'd have fun / so he started his gigabyte reader.
06:19<Nite_Owl:#openttd>Not very good but time was short
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06:20<Ammler:#openttd>they can make 2 differnet licenses, the pcx/nfo GPL and the rest what they like...
06:22<@peter1138:#openttd>Nite_Owl, nice :)
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06:25<Pikka:#openttd>oh crumbs
06:25<Nite_Owl:#openttd>I could not let Forked's challenge just slip on by
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06:30<penfold:#openttd>Pikka: :P
06:31<Brianetta:#openttd>"The job of a copyright license is to grant permissions to do things that would otherwise be forbidden under copyright law." - Debian Project
06:31<Brianetta:#openttd>I love that.
06:31<Brianetta:#openttd>Succinct and clear.
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07:01<dih:#openttd>what the fuck is dragon doing back in the forums?
07:01<blathijs:#openttd>You mean the 24 hours in a day post?
07:02<dih:#openttd>yep
07:02<Nite_Owl:#openttd>Limited ban ?
07:02<dih:#openttd>seemingly
07:02<planetmaker:#openttd>hey, you guys don't not humor?
07:02<dih:#openttd>orudge: you have a way to soft heart
07:02<planetmaker:#openttd>*note
07:02<dih:#openttd>no pm, we don't not humor
07:02<dih:#openttd>:-P
07:03<blathijs:#openttd>I actually think that was a good post
07:03<dih:#openttd>it's not bad if you get what he is trying to say
07:03<blathijs:#openttd>Compliments and thanks are means very under-used usually, and he found a cool way to word them :-)
07:03<dih:#openttd>but i fear he will turn back to usual very quickly
07:04<Nite_Owl:#openttd>I attempt humor but do not always succeed
07:04<@peter1138:#openttd>Who is Dragon?
07:05<Nite_Owl:#openttd>Could have been an attempt to smooth things over which would not be terrible.
07:05<blathijs:#openttd>DorpsGek: logs
07:05<blathijs:#openttd>Didn't we have a command for that somewhere?
07:05<dih:#openttd>blathijs: or reading the forums :-P
07:05<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>!logs
07:05<SpComb:#openttd>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
07:05<dih:#openttd>thegrebs.com has nice logs also
07:05<blathijs:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: thanks
07:06<Nite_Owl:#openttd>If I remember correctly he was a forum troll
07:06<blathijs:#openttd>Ah, I hardly ever read the forums, so can't see the post in context :-)
07:07<dih:#openttd>hehe
07:07<dih:#openttd>_this_ post is alright
07:08<dih:#openttd>i just fear it will get worse very quickly
07:08<Nite_Owl:#openttd>One never knows
07:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>/dev/sda4 423G 402G 0 100% <- wtf?
07:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>where did my 20GB suddenly go?
07:09<FauxFaux:#openttd>ext3, reserved blocks.
07:10<FauxFaux:#openttd>5% by default.
07:10<blathijs:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: There is a 5% reserved for root IIRC
07:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>how do i turn that off?
07:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>root has nothing to do with that HD
07:12<ln-:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: tune2fs -m 0 /dev/sda4
07:12<FauxFaux:#openttd>tune2fs at a guess.
07:12<FauxFaux:#openttd>Dammit.
07:12<ln-:#openttd>no need to even unmount before doing that.
07:13<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>/dev/sda4 423G 399G 25G 95% <- much better ;)
07:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but why didn't that kick in on the other ext3 disk?
07:15<dih:#openttd>perhaps root already uses 5GB there :-P
07:15<dih:#openttd>5%
07:15<dih:#openttd>sorry
07:17*FauxFaux:#openttd doesn't know, assumably you (didn't) ask for it.
07:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>how can i show disk usage per user?
07:23<dih:#openttd>cd /home
07:23<dih:#openttd>du -sh *
07:23<dih:#openttd>:-P
07:24<dih:#openttd>or if you have quota's enabled, another way
07:24<SmatZ:#openttd>/dev/hde1 196015808 194048116 1967692 99% /mnt/200gb
07:24<SmatZ:#openttd>/dev/hdg1 288451232 288031684 419548 100% /mnt/300gb
07:24<SmatZ:#openttd>/dev/hdc1 480719088 373650980 107068108 78% /mnt/500gb
07:24<SmatZ:#openttd>running out of space, again :-/
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07:25<ln-:#openttd>200gb and 300gb hds? are there such?
07:28<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>why wouldn't there?
07:29<ln-:#openttd>because 250 and 320 are nicer round figures
07:29<Gekz:#openttd>SmatZ: nice naming
07:29<Gekz:#openttd>haha
07:30<SmatZ:#openttd>:)
07:30<Gekz:#openttd>ln-: 320GB is 300GiB
07:30<ln-:#openttd>Gekz: what's 500GB then in GiB?
07:31<Gekz:#openttd>erm
07:31<Gekz:#openttd>let me check
07:31<Gekz:#openttd>Disk /dev/sda: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
07:31<Gekz:#openttd>wow, 500GB sold as 500GiB
07:31<Gekz:#openttd>that's something new.
07:31<roboboy:#openttd>gnight
07:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>Any Mac OS X PPC around here? (10.3, 10.4, 10.5?)
07:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: still around?
07:32<planetmaker:#openttd>yep
07:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>can you test http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/OTTD-OSX-custom-r14350.zip again on 10.4 Intel?
07:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>(and confirm it has 3 binaries inside the binary?)
07:32<Gekz:#openttd>3 binaries inside the archive*
07:32<Ammler:#openttd> multi universal build :-)
07:32<Gekz:#openttd>?
07:33<Gekz:#openttd>or are we using a Mac-ism
07:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>universal build always had 3 binaries
07:33<planetmaker:#openttd>that's the same link, but different, file, yes, TrueBrain ?
07:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: yes
07:33-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving]
07:34<ln-:#openttd>tell TB i can confirm there are 3 binaries in it.
07:34<ln-:#openttd>OpenTTD.app/Contents/MacOS/openttd: Mach-O universal binary with 3 architectures
07:34<planetmaker:#openttd>still works. Still seems to miss zlib
07:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>yes
07:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>tnx!
07:34<planetmaker:#openttd>np
07:34<planetmaker:#openttd>you're welcome
07:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>10.4 Intel done, 4 more to check ...
07:36<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
07:38<planetmaker:#openttd>[13:24] <SmatZ> running out of space, again :-/ <-- how much would "rm -rf ~/porn" free in that case? :P
07:38<SmatZ:#openttd>planetmaker: not much porn there...
07:39<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
07:39<SmatZ:#openttd>30GB
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07:39<planetmaker:#openttd>:O
07:39<murray:#openttd>lol, just the regular amount then
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07:42<TrueBrain:#openttd>10.5 Intel works too .. 3 PPC targets remaining :)
07:42<Nite_Owl:#openttd>There is too much light coming in through the windows for me to be awake any longer - Good day all.
07:43<@peter1138:#openttd>Hmm, interesting.
07:43-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
07:43<@peter1138:#openttd>Just been given a pay rise.
07:44<SmatZ:#openttd>good :-)
07:45<planetmaker:#openttd>congratz, peter1138 :)
07:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>concratz ;)
07:45<planetmaker:#openttd>for your merrits earned in the OpenTTD development, I assume? :P
07:48<SmatZ:#openttd>:_)
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07:53<dih:#openttd>peter1138: congrats
07:57<@peter1138:#openttd>planetmaker, clearly ;)
07:58<Ammler:#openttd>hehe
07:58<planetmaker:#openttd>hehe. Like a drug dealer - distributing OpenTTD to your boss so he'll become adicted and beg your constantly for new features. I knew it!
07:58<planetmaker:#openttd>... and not telling him that it's available for free download, but charging 100GBP for each new nightly :P
07:59<@peter1138:#openttd>haha
07:59<@peter1138:#openttd>Don't give me ideas :D
07:59<planetmaker:#openttd>:-x
07:59<SmatZ:#openttd>:^)
08:00*peter1138:#openttd ponders those Behringer MS40s
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08:08<Zephyris:#openttd>Thank you for the license advice you have given
08:09-!-HaloMaster [~Peer@219-90-178-101.ip.adam.com.au] has quit []
08:10<Zephyris:#openttd>I am considering the licenses on the terms of; can the graphics be distributed freely, can the graphics be distributed in the oppenttd installer, can the graphics be included in linux distros
08:10<Zephyris:#openttd>And taking into account artist preference
08:11<Zephyris:#openttd>By these terms the license must be either GPL or CC-by-SA
08:11<FauxFaux:#openttd>The GPL is not a good choice for art, as someone may have mentioned.
08:11<Zephyris:#openttd>with the restriction that if the graphics are CC-by-SA then a GPL installer could not include them, but could, for example, download them as part of the installation process.
08:12<Zephyris:#openttd>FauxFaux: Yup, exactly, hence the unpopularity with the artists
08:12<FauxFaux:#openttd>Is cc-by-sa 3 not GPL compatiable?
08:12<FauxFaux:#openttd>Some of the cc3 lincenses are.
08:12<Zephyris:#openttd>According to wikipedia, no
08:12<Zephyris:#openttd>i think...
08:13<FauxFaux:#openttd>I could've swoprn someone said...
08:13<ln-:#openttd>might i just say that if the graphics cannot be distributed with OTTD, then the there's not much advantage over the original TTD graphics.
08:13<@peter1138:#openttd>You might.
08:13<ln-:#openttd>thanks.
08:13<Zephyris:#openttd>All proposed licenses allow the free distribution with openttd, just not necessarily as part of openttd - does that make sense?
08:14<FauxFaux:#openttd>Not to me.
08:15<Zephyris:#openttd>You could download both the OpenTTD game and the OpenGFX graphics from the OpenTTD website, but the different licenses would not necessarily allow the download of a single package (installer/zip file) which contains both
08:15<Zephyris:#openttd>Both would be free to distribute, but not as a single endity
08:16<FauxFaux:#openttd>Sounds like a hillariously shitty license to me.
08:16-!-Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:17<Zephyris:#openttd>Welcome to the laws of licenses, its a hilariously shitty world
08:18<FauxFaux:#openttd>I'm positive someone said cc3 was okay.
08:20<FauxFaux:#openttd>Sigh, apparently not (using linux.com as a source, highly suspicious).
08:21<Ammler:#openttd>just to be sure, "hg up -r c23c4457" does update to that revision, just the revision detector of openttd doesn't work, so I just need to write it with configure?
08:23<@peter1138:#openttd>No.
08:23<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd><Zephyris> with the restriction that if the graphics are CC-by-SA then a GPL installer could not include them, but could, for example, download them as part of the installation process. <- my interpretation of the GPL said that you can put two independent packages into the same medium, even if one was not GPL, which means a windows installer (as wide interpretation of "medium") could include the graphics, as long as they are in it side by
08:23<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>side as equal packages, and you give a selection to not install the graphics. (as in 3 choices: 1. install openttd, 2. search for original gfx, 3. install "open" gfx)
08:23<@peter1138:#openttd>Just "hg update c23c4457"
08:24<@peter1138:#openttd>Change "hg tip" in findversion.sh to "hg parents"
08:24<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that'd be my favourite variant about a gfx-replacement
08:26<Ammler:#openttd>thanks peter1138
08:30<Ammler:#openttd>Zephyris: the license is not about distribution, I hope, it is mostly about reusing your sprites, isn't?
08:30<@peter1138:#openttd>Of course it's about redistribution.
08:30<Zephyris:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: I agree, although the devs opinion is what counts
08:31<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>a license can ONLY be about distribution...
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08:32<Ammler:#openttd>aha
08:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>uääärgs... jpg screenshots... my eyes hurt... :(
08:32<Zephyris:#openttd>I want all my work to be available for use and reuse and modification for OpenTTD/TTDPatch, and be available for distribution and redistribution with or as part of OpenTTD, with suitable protection to prevent exploitation
08:33<Gekz:#openttd>how could it be exploited.
08:33<Ammler:#openttd>maybe you got me wrong, the most important thing, imo, is that you can reuse OpenGFX as much as you like without asking the author.
08:33<Zephyris:#openttd>Yup, I agree
08:33<Gekz:#openttd>GPL it?
08:34<Ammler:#openttd>and if there is only the pcx and the nfo, how can it missused?
08:34<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Zephyris: if you read the dfsg link above, the "protection" arguments are often what makes the licenses unsuitible to be included anywhere
08:35<Zephyris:#openttd>By protection I mean the graphics can be reused and modified without asking for permission, ie. as terms of the licence, but the product of such modifications must be released under the same license
08:35<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yeah, that'll be CC-BY-SA
08:35<Zephyris:#openttd>which is why the GPL and CC-by-SA are being considered
08:35<Gekz:#openttd>CC is not compatible with the GPL
08:36<Gekz:#openttd>Zephyris: GPL covers your terms
08:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>GPL has the inherent problem of clearly defining what the "source" of a graphics file is
08:36<Zephyris:#openttd>But GPL is not an artistic license and has many large ambiguities with graphical work
08:36-!-Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.155.39.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd
08:36<Ammler:#openttd>so if I would like to make a singe Engine GRF with a sprite from you; I am not allowed to use GPL if you have that restricted CC?
08:36<Gekz:#openttd>Zephyris: write your own license?
08:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Gekz: i'd suggest you read some the forum thread arguments
08:37<@peter1138:#openttd>Ammler, correct.
08:37<Zephyris:#openttd>Ammler: Yes, it would have to be CC
08:37<Gekz:#openttd>Ammler: therefore you cant use it with GPL
08:37<Gekz:#openttd>because CC is incompatible
08:37<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Gekz: writing an own license is the worst thing to do
08:37<Zephyris:#openttd>More specifically the product would have to be released under the CC-by-SA with credit to the original authors
08:38<Gekz:#openttd>http://www.perlfoundation.org/artistic_license_2_0
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08:39<Ammler:#openttd>on GPL, I don't need to credit you, is that the difference?
08:40<dih:#openttd>public domain
08:40<Ammler:#openttd>then it might be worth to use CC
08:40<Gekz:#openttd>using CC would make it cumbersome to be used with OpenTTD
08:41<Ammler:#openttd>cumbersome?
08:41<Ammler:#openttd>why?
08:42<Ammler:#openttd>openttd?.grf looks also like CC
08:42<Gekz:#openttd>http://www.zope.org/Resources/ZPL
08:42<Gekz:#openttd>you cant distribute CC with GPL
08:42<Gekz:#openttd>they're incompatible licences.
08:43<Ammler:#openttd>[14:39] <Ammler> on GPL, I don't need to credit you, is that the difference? <-- then, that isn't the only difference?
08:43<dih:#openttd>like i said Gekz: Public Domain ;-)
08:44<Gekz:#openttd>Ammler: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#SoftwareLicenses
08:44<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Gekz: but you can distribute them ALONGSIDE each other. like putting them on the same medium (CD, Installer, FTP-Server)
08:44-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke]
08:45<Gekz:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: ohs.
08:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>as long as it is clear that they are two separate packages
08:45<Gekz:#openttd>but
08:45<Gekz:#openttd>thats still cumbersome
08:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>no, it's not
08:45<Gekz:#openttd>you can't include it as the default grf
08:45<Gekz:#openttd>in the same archive
08:45<Ammler:#openttd>why not?
08:45<Ammler:#openttd>like it is now
08:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you shouldn't either. you should give the user the ability to use the original gfx as default
08:45<Zephyris:#openttd>This is the key point which has to be clarified
08:46<Ammler:#openttd>you don't have the data on same dir as the binary.
08:46<dih:#openttd>that is a point the devs have to clarify
08:46<planetmaker:#openttd>[14:39] <Ammler> on GPL, I don't need to credit you, is that the difference? <--- no. GPL requires attribution, if you want it.
08:46<Zephyris:#openttd>The only problem now is the issue of co-distribution
08:46<Zephyris:#openttd>Cant they be on the same website?
08:46<Ammler:#openttd>planetmaker: I am looking for a reason, why artists don't like GPL...
08:47<Gekz:#openttd>what about when OpenTTD is entirely free from the original TTD code
08:47<Gekz:#openttd>it just encumbers the process some more
08:47<Zephyris:#openttd>Can they be in the same zip?
08:47<Zephyris:#openttd>Or installer
08:48<Zephyris:#openttd>I would like to make it clear that the graphics will be released under the GPL if necessary, but there is a large preference among the artists that CC-by-SA is used instead
08:48<Zephyris:#openttd>I want to check that this is feasible dispite the incompatible nature of the GPL and CC-by-SA licenses
08:48<Ammler:#openttd>and can you say in short why?
08:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd><Gekz> what about when OpenTTD is entirely free from the original TTD code <- that is a condition that is impossible to check, as no part of OpenTTD ever was a verbatim copy of TTD
08:49<Zephyris:#openttd>Ammler: Principly because of the ambiguities in the GPL when it is applied to graphics
08:50<dih:#openttd>Zephyris: i just cannot get why you give such a big damn
08:50<dih:#openttd>yes - you invested a lot of time and effort
08:50<dih:#openttd>but what is more important?
08:51<dih:#openttd>ask the Devs what they would need if they were gonna bundle their OpenTTD with OpenGFX
08:51<dih:#openttd>and then satisfy that
08:51<Zephyris:#openttd>The devs arent copyright experts
08:51<dih:#openttd>or you just created some nice alternative nobody will give a damn to use
08:51<Zephyris:#openttd>they need some informed advice
08:51<Ammler:#openttd>dih: he asks the devs of the OpenGFX :-)
08:52<Zephyris:#openttd>and i am trying to give them that by finding out what can be done
08:52<dih:#openttd>the devs are not copyright experts, no, but they have their own piece of mind
08:52<Zephyris:#openttd>when i asked the devs they said come back with some simple pros and cons
08:52<dih:#openttd>did it ever occure to you, that they might say that they would not want to support any CC ?
08:52<Zephyris:#openttd>which is what I am trying to work out here
08:52<Zephyris:#openttd>they will support CC so long as they can see simple pros and cons of it
08:52<Zephyris:#openttd>and if the cons are too severe then they wont supprot it
08:53<Zephyris:#openttd>they wont support CC-by-SA-NC because the cons with distribution would be too severe
08:54<Zephyris:#openttd>I hope that makes sense :) I am stuck in the middle at the moment!
08:56<dih:#openttd>why not make it public domain?
08:56<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that is not possible in some countries.
08:56<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>meaning germany ;)
08:56<Ammler:#openttd>dih: why isn't OpenTTD not public domain?
08:57<Zephyris:#openttd>and is not acceptable to the other artists
08:57<Ammler:#openttd>-not
08:57<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>public domain is a step too far, imho
08:57<dih:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: where is it not possible to make something publicly available and state one does not give a damn about shit?
08:58<dih:#openttd>apparently they cannot make it GPL
08:59<Zephyris:#openttd>germany, and we can make it GPL, and will if necessary, but would prefer not.
09:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>dih: you can give out "unconditional licenses", but not "copyright" in germany
09:00<Ammler:#openttd>Zephyris: wouldn't you accept the pcx as source?
09:00<Gekz:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: it uses the original game files
09:01<Ammler:#openttd>do you fear you need to distribute your whole workspace?
09:01<Zephyris:#openttd>Ammler: yes, it would be a gig of stuff
09:01<Zephyris:#openttd>I would accept pcx as source, but I am no lawyer and with an ambiguous license...
09:02<Ammler:#openttd>and if that would be defined somewhere?
09:02<Ammler:#openttd>source=pcx+nfo
09:03<Ammler:#openttd>well, in your case, the decoded grf would be enough :-)
09:03<Zephyris:#openttd>adding extra conditions to a license is always dodgy, but as I said if CC-by-SA is not acceptable to the devs then yes that will be the case
09:03<Zephyris:#openttd>a folder of sprites with offsets is all that would be needed
09:03<Ammler:#openttd>Zephyris: and CC-by-SA does define that?
09:04<Zephyris:#openttd>CC-by-SA has no requirements for a "source", it is an artistic license
09:04<Zephyris:#openttd>but it may as well come with the decoded grf too...
09:04<Gekz:#openttd>Zephyris: you could make it CC-by-SA
09:05<Gekz:#openttd>with a special exception for distribution with OpenTTD
09:05<Gekz:#openttd>as you _are_ the copyright owner and have the right to make exceptions
09:05<Ammler:#openttd>thanks, now I see it :-)
09:05<dih:#openttd>all authers have to agree Gekz
09:05<dih:#openttd>;-)
09:06<Gekz:#openttd>dih: then make a consensus.
09:06<dih:#openttd>Zephyris: what is the reseon to avoid GPL?
09:06<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Zephyris: but what i said in the thread still holds, for modification purposes, it would be better to split the huge PCX in smaller groups (one entity like the 8 vehicle views per file)
09:06<Gekz:#openttd>dih: read the backlog.
09:06<Ammler:#openttd>I always thought, GPL is too less restricted :-)
09:06<hylje:#openttd>cut the drama and use BSD like grown-ups do
09:07<hylje:#openttd>:-)
09:07<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the NFO easily allows including multiple PCX files
09:07<Gekz:#openttd>hylje: sigh
09:07<Gekz:#openttd>when it comes down to it, I don't care about the license.
09:07<Gekz:#openttd>I care about the patents.
09:07<Gekz:#openttd>patents must die.
09:07<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>then a user saying "i don't like the look of the A4" could just modify that one file, and not worry about conflicts with other completely unrelated objects
09:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but that is totally independent from the license
09:08<Ammler:#openttd>I agree to Eddi|zuHause and suggest you are using the Makefile for openttd?.grf: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/extra/ottd_grf
09:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>also, it makes it easier to specify who is the author of each file
09:09<Ammler:#openttd>(maybe foobar already does something similar
09:09<Zephyris:#openttd>with either GPL or CC a user could modify a single vehicle and then only redistribute only the graphics for that vehicle - you can safely make a derivative work from only part of the original
09:10<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, i am speaking about usability, not about license
09:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>say one person modified the A4, and another person modified the wooden bridge, separate files would make these changes trivial to merge
09:12<Ammler:#openttd>I hope also, there will still be the GRFs available as single parts so you could compine originals with the replacement...
09:12<Ammler:#openttd>!/p/b/
09:13<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>also, if the second person wants to redistribute just that single bridge, he needs not elaborately find out who to attribute for the original brige, as that could be meta-information for the individual file (or a directory structure)
09:13<planetmaker:#openttd>[15:05] <Gekz> with a special exception for distribution with OpenTTD <-- not the worst of ideas.
09:13<Gekz:#openttd>hurray
09:14<ln-:#openttd>planetmaker: what is "OpenTTD"?
09:14<Zephyris:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: They would have to credit all original authors, the derivative work is from an original work of shared authorship.
09:15<planetmaker:#openttd>ln-: the game we all like :)
09:15<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Zephyris: yes, but it doesn't have to be, if you can specifically find out one author for the respective sprite
09:15<ln-:#openttd>planetmaker: yes, so anyone who distributes something called OpenTTD is allowed to distribute those graphics. fine.
09:15<Zephyris:#openttd>true, but for simplicity the whole thing will be credited to shared authorship
09:15<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>say, you modified a bridge, and redistribute that separately, you don't have to credit a person who only worked on airport sprites
09:16<Ammler:#openttd>mostly it is Zephyris and a coder :-9
09:17<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that i did not check ;)
09:17<planetmaker:#openttd>ln-: OpenTTD is an open source clone of the Microprose game "Transport Tycoon Deluxe", a popular game originally written by Chris Sawyer. It attempts to mimic the original game as closely as possible while extending it with new features.
09:17<planetmaker:#openttd>OpenTTD is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2.0. For more information, see the file COPYING included with every release and source download of the game.
09:17<Ammler:#openttd>if he didn't code it self ;-)
09:17<planetmaker:#openttd>with a link to the website will do, I guess in order to make it unambigeous.
09:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the individual attribution is just a bonus... just about the conflict prevention would be a great usability enhancement already
09:18<Gekz:#openttd>that clearly defines it.
09:18<Gekz:#openttd>Now think of a situation where someone is seriously going to pick through said license
09:18<Gekz:#openttd>for some 8 bit sprites
09:18<Gekz:#openttd>why would they go out of their way to call a product OpenTTD
09:18<Gekz:#openttd>which would have nothing to do with whatever their product is
09:18<Gekz:#openttd>>_>
09:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>planetmaker: but anyone who is allowed (per GPL) to make a modification to it, might redistribute that under a completely different name
09:19<Gekz:#openttd>they can redistribute OpenTTD all they want
09:19<Gekz:#openttd>it just cant include the opengfx then
09:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>planetmaker: the opengfx license must not restrict this in any way
09:19<Gekz:#openttd>why.
09:20<Ammler:#openttd>but that should also be possible, imo
09:20<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>because any such clause is incompatible with the GPL
09:20<planetmaker:#openttd>because then it's not free anymore according to the debian definition.
09:20<Ammler:#openttd>forks (or however they are called) should also be able to use them...
09:20<Gekz:#openttd>then add that to the exception
09:20<Gekz:#openttd>OpenTTD and any future or past forks
09:20<Gekz:#openttd>or present
09:20<Gekz:#openttd>lol
09:20<Gekz:#openttd>it's not hard to elaborate upon an exception
09:20<Ammler:#openttd>:-)
09:21<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>what about TTDP? which is undoubtedly not a fork?
09:21<Ammler:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: they don't need it really.
09:21<Ammler:#openttd>as they need the original anyway.
09:21<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but they must be allowed to do so
09:21<Ammler:#openttd>you can use them anyway.
09:22<Gekz:#openttd>why must they be
09:22<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>say someone rewrites TTDP in a way they can use the opengfx, any such above discussed restriction would prevent them from using it
09:22<Gekz:#openttd>TTDP isnt GPL
09:22<Gekz:#openttd>is it?
09:22<Ammler:#openttd>but OpenTTD can become independent with them.
09:22<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, it is
09:22<Gekz:#openttd>then they may apply for an exception
09:22<Gekz:#openttd>or you can give them one
09:22<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Gekz: the point about "free" software is, that you DON'T HAVE TO ASK
09:23<Gekz:#openttd>lols
09:23<Gekz:#openttd>point: this file isnt software
09:23<Gekz:#openttd>its art.
09:23<Gekz:#openttd>graphics
09:23<Ammler:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: !s/free/open/
09:23<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>free as in speech
09:24<Gekz:#openttd>speech isnt free
09:24<Gekz:#openttd>it has limits.
09:24<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>as has the GPL
09:24<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>or the CC-BY-SA
09:24<Gekz:#openttd>as if I didnt see that one coming.
09:24<Gekz:#openttd>Public domain ftw.
09:24<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>public domain has also its limits
09:24<Gekz:#openttd>how.
09:25<Gekz:#openttd>you may use it for any reason without limit >_>
09:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>some laws make posession of certain software illegal
09:25<dih:#openttd>i refuse to use the opengfx stuff
09:25<dih:#openttd>i much prefer the original graphics
09:25<Gekz:#openttd>what the hell does that have to do with public domain
09:25<Gekz:#openttd>lol
09:25<Gekz:#openttd>some laws make some things illegal.
09:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>germany, for example, has a law that makes use of software illegal, that can crack copy-protection
09:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>there it does not matter that the software might be public domain
09:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it is still restricted
09:26<Gekz:#openttd>has nothing to do with the fact that the software is free
09:26<Gekz:#openttd>completely
09:26<Gekz:#openttd>for any reason
09:27<Gekz:#openttd>you're just not free to use it.
09:27<dih:#openttd>yes - software is free, germans arnt
09:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>same as for speech
09:27<dih:#openttd>yes - speach is free, germans still are not
09:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it is free, but some laws may still forbid certain expressions
09:28<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>for example, holocaust denial is a crime in germany, where it would fall under free speech in america
09:29<Gekz:#openttd>Germany has some retarded laws.
09:29<Gekz:#openttd>ol
09:29<Gekz:#openttd>lol*
09:29<dih:#openttd>in englans you are (by law) still allowed to shoot stocts with bow 'n arrow
09:29<dih:#openttd>just not on sundays
09:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>most of these are actually ones that were enforced by americans
09:29<Gekz:#openttd>speech has rules that arent based around law too
09:29<Gekz:#openttd>society doesnt like tsercertain opics
09:29<Gekz:#openttd>bah laggy ssh
09:29<Gekz:#openttd>stocts?
09:29<dih:#openttd>lol
09:30<dih:#openttd>scots
09:30<dih:#openttd>bad laggy ssh
09:30<dih:#openttd>:-D
09:30<Gekz:#openttd>oh lol
09:30<Gekz:#openttd>scots
09:30<hylje:#openttd>free speech means you are supposed to be able to talk even about topics nobody likes
09:30<dih:#openttd>there is a state in the us where you are not allowed to cout backwards in hex
09:30<hylje:#openttd>too bad if the society doesn't want its faults to be exposed
09:31<Gekz:#openttd>how can ssh be laggy
09:31<Gekz:#openttd>FROM THE OTHER FUCKING ROOM
09:31<Gekz:#openttd>something is seriously broken
09:31<dih:#openttd>how do you know where i am sitting?
09:31<dih:#openttd>:-P
09:31-!-TheMask96 [martijn@sirius-r5.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
09:32<Gekz:#openttd>lol.
09:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd><dih> there is a state in the us where you are not allowed to cout backwards in hex <- somebody was drunk, i assume :p
09:33<dih:#openttd>and said 'fuck you'?
09:33<dih:#openttd>to a bitchin cop?
09:38<Brianetta:#openttd>Eddi, Gekz: If you want it in Debian, it MUST be GPL compatible.
09:39<Gekz:#openttd>Fuck, you people make me want to write a GPL-compatible artistic license.
09:39<Gekz:#openttd>just so I can say "THERE."
09:39-!-CommanderZ [~matej@r9fi34.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd
09:39<Gekz:#openttd>and feel all egotistic.
09:39<Brianetta:#openttd>dih: The scots and shooting thing was only in York, and the Law Commission has rescinded it.
09:39<dih:#openttd>Brianetta: what a shame :-P
09:39<Brianetta:#openttd>Gekz: There is one...
09:40<Brianetta:#openttd>http://artlibre.org/licence/lal/en/
09:40<Gekz:#openttd>artistic license != an artistic license
09:40<Gekz:#openttd>thats not compatible afaik
09:40<Brianetta:#openttd>It is, according to the Gnu Project web site.
09:40<@Belugas:#openttd>WE NEED LAWYERS LIARS!
09:40<Gekz:#openttd>O.o
09:40<Gekz:#openttd>then use it.
09:40<Brianetta:#openttd>On what?
09:41<Brianetta:#openttd>None of my art is scheduled for inclusion into anything.
09:41-!-Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-99.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit]
09:41-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
09:47<@peter1138:#openttd>110GB!
09:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>oeh
09:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>peter1138 is getting all happy
09:49<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Brianetta: imho, as long as the hypothetical "openttd-gfx" package stays separate from the "openttd" package (as in, you can deselect the installation of it), CC-BY-SA will be perfectly fine to be included anywhere
09:49<@peter1138:#openttd>Hmm, I left yorick banned... never mind.
09:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>some person's log page must have insane traffic then :p
09:50<@peter1138:#openttd>:)
09:50<Brianetta:#openttd>Eddi: CC-BY-SA is, as far as I can tell, GPL compatible.
09:51-!-mode/#openttd [+q *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by peter1138
09:51-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by peter1138
09:51<Brianetta:#openttd>Alas, poor Yorick. I knew him, Horatio; he was a man of infinite irritation.
09:51<Brianetta:#openttd>What does mode q do?
09:52<@peter1138:#openttd>Quiet.
09:52<Brianetta:#openttd>Oh, sweet.
09:52<Brianetta:#openttd>The anti-v
09:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>how many times is yorick banned by now ... :p I lost count
09:53-!-rolerzzis [~rolerzzis@87.110.170.170] has joined #openttd
09:53<rolerzzis:#openttd>dsconnect
09:53<@peter1138:#openttd>More than Jez.
09:53-!-rolerzzis [~rolerzzis@87.110.170.170] has quit []
09:53<Brianetta:#openttd>I might just pop him on my ignorance list
09:53<@peter1138:#openttd>Jez had a habit of using host anonymisers though.
09:54-!-rolerzzis [~rolerzzis@87.110.170.170] has joined #openttd
09:54<rolerzzis:#openttd>hi guyzzzz
09:54<rolerzzis:#openttd>whatt is upzzzz?????
09:54-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*rolerzzis@87.110.170.*] by peter1138
09:54-!-rolerzzis was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [Sticky keys?]
09:54<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>> grep Bann oftc.net_#openttd.log -i | grep yorick -i | grep verhängt | wc -l
09:54<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>16
09:54<@peter1138:#openttd>Way more than 16.
09:55<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that's what my log says
09:55<Brianetta:#openttd>That's just what Eddi's witnessed
09:55<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>first instance was 10th March
09:55<TrueBrain:#openttd>lol @ peter1138
09:57-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
09:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>> grep Bann oftc.net_#openttd.log -i | grep yorick -i | grep verhängt | awk '{ print $7 }' | sort | uniq -c
09:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd> 2 Bjarni
09:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd> 2 DorpsGek
09:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd> 11 peter1138
09:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd> 1 TrueBrain
09:58<dih:#openttd>LOL peter1138
09:58<dih:#openttd>nice ban
09:59<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>peter1138: maybe it felt like 111 ;)
10:00<TrueBrain:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: I only count 7 real bans for yorick
10:00<TrueBrain:#openttd>hmm, no, those stats are wrong
10:01<TrueBrain:#openttd>97 bans in total since DorpsGek is here, 16 of which are for yorick .. :)
10:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>see, that's what i said ;)
10:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>364 kicks, 42 to yorick :p
10:02<@Rubidium:#openttd>maybe we'd try mode q on yorick
10:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>35 bans in total set by peter1138 :p
10:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>Rubidium: peter1138 did, if you would have read :p
10:03<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm. i count only 337 kicks...
10:03<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>*37
10:03<@Rubidium:#openttd>missed that :)
10:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>20070403, first day DorpsGek was here
10:04<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>30th January is the first kick of yorick, according to my logs
10:04<dih:#openttd>did _42_ not do any
10:04<dih:#openttd>or are you looking at those logs alos
10:04<dih:#openttd>*also
10:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>dih: is in some archive, no interest :p
10:05<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>*** Datum: Mo Jul 23 10:16:00 2007 <- the day my logs started
10:06<dih:#openttd>google for "kick yorick site:thegrebs.com"
10:06<dih:#openttd>82 hits :-D
10:06<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that's not actually a reliable method
10:06<Brianetta:#openttd>That'll be doubled by this conversation aofter the next index
10:07<dih:#openttd>true
10:07<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it counts pages where the words "kick" and "yorick" appear together
10:07-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
10:07-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
10:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it has nothing to do with wether a kick really occured, or if yorick was the target of that kick
10:08-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
10:08<@Bjarni:#openttd>you want me to kick yorick?
10:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that'll be hard right now :p
10:09*Bjarni:#openttd sets mode +b *yorick!*@*
10:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yeah, that'll go well with the +q ;)
10:10<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>who was that guy who was banned for months, and nobody cared?
10:10<Brianetta:#openttd>noban
10:10<Brianetta:#openttd>mute is funny
10:10<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>DiaboloD3?
10:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>we should have a hall of unfame :p
10:11<@Bjarni:#openttd>well we banned him for months and forgot about it
10:11<Brianetta:#openttd>no
10:11<Brianetta:#openttd>people would try to get into it
10:14<dih:#openttd>Bjarni: yorick has a static ip ;-)
10:15<@Bjarni:#openttd>cool
10:16<@Bjarni:#openttd>but it would be more fun to ban a dynamic IP
10:16<Forked:#openttd>idents are picked by user..
10:16<FauxFaux:#openttd>Not on some machines.
10:16<@Bjarni:#openttd>I have a dynamic IP and at one time I was unable to access a webserver. It claimed that I was banned due to spamming
10:17<@Bjarni:#openttd>however I never posted anything on that server. It would have been ok for me to have it read only
10:17<dih:#openttd>Forked: look at the logs and you will find that for the pased year, that ident has not changed hostmask
10:18*Forked:#openttd likes his static IPs
10:19-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm6.epsilon121.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=99118 <- is it just me or are the presignals there useless?
10:19-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*@*.igjen.vdsl2.no] by Bjarni
10:19<@Bjarni:#openttd>that is what you get for declaring that you have a static IP :P
10:19-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*@*.igjen.vdsl2.no] by Bjarni
10:19<FauxFaux:#openttd>You banned an entire ISP 'cos they give out static ips?
10:19<Forked:#openttd>Bjarni: thats on this line, I have the other DSL line as well =p
10:19<dih:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: that's just you
10:20<Forked:#openttd>FauxFaux: I'm the only one with *.vdsl2.no hosts :) so ban that domain and you'll get rid of me
10:20<@Bjarni:#openttd>FauxFaux: something like that
10:20<Forked:#openttd>(not really that many customers using vdsl2 ..yet)
10:20<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>dih: ah well then, i started to think it was really a problem :p
10:21<dih:#openttd>:-P
10:21<Forked:#openttd>why would that pre signal not be any good? "is platform A or B free? no? I'll wait here for the first available"
10:21<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Forked: they are two separate stations, trains do not have a choice over A or B
10:21<Forked:#openttd>OH
10:22<Forked:#openttd>my bad
10:23<@Rubidium:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: actually... if you set go non-stop to Grain Pickup 5 and that platform is full, it'll make another round instead of blocking the station
10:23<@peter1138:#openttd>TrueBrain, lol, that guy made a mess of #tycoon
10:24<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Rubidium: for that to work, you would have an insanely high last-red penalty, (it's not twoway, so the eol cannot kick in)
10:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the last red signal must get a higher pathfinder result than another full round worth of tracks
10:28-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:30-!-CommanderZ [~matej@r9fi34.net.upc.cz] has left #openttd []
10:33<Ammler:#openttd>only 10 signals will be counted for penalty...
10:34-!-Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the 10 first, and the last
10:36-!-Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has joined #openttd
10:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>where the first is also treated differently than the next 9
10:38<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>first is to choose a free junction exit, last to choose a free platform, and the first 10 for load balancing
10:39-!-TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@85.27.135.237] has joined #openttd
10:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but i need to correct my previous statement, the first-red penalty must be high, as the last-red is also applied to the full round trip
10:39-!-daspork [~daspork@71-87-195-77.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #openttd [Leaving]
10:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>because it will end at that very same signal
10:39<SmatZ:#openttd>[15:51:08] *** peter1138 gives channel owner privileges to *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl.
10:40<SmatZ:#openttd>I wonder why my client fails in this :-x
10:40<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>SmatZ: it's a misinterpretation of the flag
10:40<@peter1138:#openttd>Haha
10:40<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it has different meaning on different networks
10:40<@peter1138:#openttd>Unless I did... :o
10:40<SmatZ:#openttd>it is, and I get scared everytime it happens :)
10:40<@peter1138:#openttd>I don't think so though :)
10:40<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, happened to me, too ;)
10:41<SmatZ:#openttd>:-)
10:41<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the konversation people are over at freenode, i think
10:41<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you could request a change ;)
10:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>Konversation ;)
10:41<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but i kinda doubt that they're going to make another KDE3 release
10:41<Ammler:#openttd>nice client :P
10:41<SmatZ:#openttd>:)
10:42<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>there's also an option to just show the raw mode changes
10:43<SmatZ:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: found it, thanks :)
10:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>so... who writes my diploma thesis now?
10:44<SmatZ:#openttd>go go go! what is your diploma thesis about?
10:44<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>an abstraction layer to analyse combined python/c++ programs
10:44-!-Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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10:45<SmatZ:#openttd>aha, I expected something more math-like :)
10:46<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>http://cgi.ebay.de/Teilchenbeschleuniger-ohne-Urknall_W0QQitemZ260286030778QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting <- hahaha :p [german]
10:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>I have 2 identical system, or so I thought ... one does compile OSX GCC, the other doesn't ...
10:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>go figure :(
10:46*SmatZ:#openttd goes figure
10:48-!-teggigi [~asd@ti0056a340-dhcp0311.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd
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10:49-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
10:57<@peter1138:#openttd>Pom te pom
10:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>lalala
10:57<dih:#openttd>heh
10:57-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has joined #openttd
10:57<dih:#openttd>3mins 15secs to compile openttd in a vps
10:58<Ammler:#openttd>that is fast
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10:59*peter1138:#openttd hungers.
11:00*Eddi|zuHause:#openttd goes eating
11:05<+glx:#openttd>peter1138: your hg fix was incomplete ;)
11:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: nobody cares about MSVC :p
11:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>(haha, sorry :))
11:08-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
11:08<@peter1138:#openttd>Oh, well fix it? :p
11:08-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
11:10<+glx:#openttd>already done ;)
11:10<@peter1138:#openttd>Oh, okay.
11:10<@peter1138:#openttd>Oh right, MSVC has to be different :P
11:11<@peter1138:#openttd>Anyway, the hg log line is wrong too :(
11:12<@peter1138:#openttd>g$ hg parents
11:12<@peter1138:#openttd>changeset: 19837:c23c445783d6
11:12<@peter1138:#openttd>$ hg log -k "svn" -l 1
11:12<@peter1138:#openttd>changeset: 19897:6e3a58a7587d
11:12<@peter1138:#openttd>:o
11:12<@peter1138:#openttd>Oh, TrueBrain, by the way...
11:12<@peter1138:#openttd>111GB!
11:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>1 GB more, whoho
11:12<planetmaker:#openttd>[16:19] <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=99118 <- is it just me or are the presignals there useless? <-- they're not useless. They're wrong.
11:13<planetmaker:#openttd>Because the choice is not equivalent and a train may go to the wrong station due to those mis-places pre-signal-exit-signals there.
11:13<planetmaker:#openttd>*mis-placed
11:13<@peter1138:#openttd>No it won't.
11:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>isn't wrong a form of useless?
11:14<@peter1138:#openttd>The pre-signals won't make a train choose the wrong path.
11:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>planetmaker: but presignals do not influence the path the train chooses
11:14<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain: I define useless as non-malicious, not detrimental, no effect
11:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: in no way I was being serious :)
11:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>planetmaker: if there were no presignals, the train would still have the choice of the wrong platform
11:15<planetmaker:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: they do IIRC. When the entry gets green... it will go to the green exit. If that's wrong - bad luck for the train.
11:15<@peter1138:#openttd>It won't go to the green exit.
11:15<planetmaker:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: yes, but then it won't chose the wrong one and will wait
11:15<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>presignal exits have slightly different penalty
11:15<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but the choice is still the same
11:15<@peter1138:#openttd>It will go to the exit that will take it to the station it intends to reach
11:16<planetmaker:#openttd>hm... got to test that somewhen... then they're at least useless :)
11:17<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>like i said, you'd have to have insanely high penalties for the red signal to make the train take another roundtrip instead of waiting
11:17<planetmaker:#openttd>kk :) Obviously I've been living with the wrong assumptions on this point for quite some time without ever bothering to test - as it's either useless or wrong :P
11:18<@Belugas:#openttd>fun fun fun... i don't understand it totally, therefor it's useless
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11:18<@Belugas:#openttd>or worse, it's buggy
11:18<@Belugas:#openttd>ffffff
11:18<planetmaker:#openttd>Belugas: ??? You looked at the image?
11:18<@Belugas:#openttd>no, just your comments ;)
11:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Belugas: i just took the image from a random forum post, and wante to point out the rather obvious user error ;)
11:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>+d
11:20<planetmaker:#openttd>gah... :) I think we all understand the intention of the builder. But either implementation is useless - and obviously I thought wrongly that it's even worse, that it's faulty
11:20<@Belugas:#openttd>welll... didn't you concluded that presignals are useless?
11:21<@Belugas:#openttd>or that HIS use of presignal is useless
11:21<@Belugas:#openttd>two different things
11:21<planetmaker:#openttd>HIS
11:21<planetmaker:#openttd>not in general
11:21<planetmaker:#openttd>not at all.
11:21<+glx:#openttd>peter1138: hg log is not hard to fix
11:22<@peter1138:#openttd>No?
11:22<@Belugas:#openttd>then i retract my comment
11:23<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
11:24<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>fun fun fun... don't fully understand the comment and it immediately is a stupid-user-bashing-feature-comment :p
11:24<planetmaker:#openttd>:D
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11:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>hi yorick :)
11:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>(is that mean?)
11:25<planetmaker:#openttd>I think it can be savely assumed that people from #openttdcoop understand the basics of pre-signals - and abuse that more than some people like on this channel :P
11:25<yorick:#openttd>hello TrueBrain :)
11:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>is it me or did the hostmask change?
11:26<TrueBrain:#openttd>since when do you use telfort? :p
11:26<+glx:#openttd>peter1138: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/hg_log_fix.diff
11:26<@Bjarni:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: why was it that I should kick yorick?
11:26<@Belugas:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause, it's easy to judge, based on the history of the said user ;)
11:26-!-mode/#openttd [+q *!*Yorick@*] by peter1138
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11:49<@peter1138:#openttd>$ uname -a
11:49<@peter1138:#openttd>CNU-OS 8.2(2ES1.) 3.3(0.2) CP-7971G-GE BCM1100-C1(MIPS32)
11:49<@peter1138:#openttd>Hmm :)
11:49<hylje:#openttd>hm
11:49<@peter1138:#openttd>glx, fair enough... Any way to handle hg branch not working? :)
11:50<@Rubidium:#openttd>updating hg?
11:52<+glx:#openttd>what's wrong with hg branch ?
11:53<@peter1138:#openttd>$ hg branch
11:53<@peter1138:#openttd>hg: unknown command 'branch'
11:53<@peter1138:#openttd>Mercurial Distributed SCM
11:53<@peter1138:#openttd>basic commands (use "hg help" for the full list or option "-v" for details):
11:53<+glx:#openttd>works for me
11:53<hylje:#openttd>hg has the bad habit of adding functionality each release
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11:53<FauxFaux:#openttd>"The method setMigrationObjects(ArrayList<IMigration>) in the type AbstractMigrationObject is not applicable for the arguments (ArrayList<SomeMigrationImplementation>)" BAD ECLIPSE
11:54<FauxFaux:#openttd>Uh, wrong channel.
11:54<hylje:#openttd>too java
11:54*FauxFaux:#openttd even thinks "wow, I didn't know Brianetta, that OpenTTD guy, used Eclipse".
11:55<hylje:#openttd>the more you know
11:57<@peter1138:#openttd>I use Eclipse.
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12:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>bah, the latest House MD sucks ...
12:06<+glx:#openttd>peter1138: commit done
12:10<@Belugas:#openttd>lat one in french didn't, TrueBrain :) was very good in a matter of fact
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12:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: well, season 4 ended with a big BOOM!
12:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>so you expect season 5 to start really cool
12:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>instead ... it was just an other episode :(
12:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>nothing ... worth talking about happened
12:14*Belugas:#openttd does not know what season number he's watching
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12:15<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i did not watch any house yet...
12:20<@Belugas:#openttd>ho boy... already that late
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12:29<@peter1138:#openttd>Hah
12:29-!-mode/#openttd [-q *!*Yorick@*] by peter1138
12:29-!-mode/#openttd [-q *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by peter1138
12:29<@Belugas:#openttd>ho... it's alive :)
12:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>wth? "peter1138 nimmt *!*Yorick@* Operator-Status."???
12:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: we talked about that ...
12:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>not so long ago
12:31<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, but "owner"=="Besitzer", not "Operator"...
12:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>I think that part is not translated
12:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>"*** peter1138 gibt *!*Yorick@* Besitzerstatus." <- that was the other message
12:32<@Belugas:#openttd>pfff
12:32<@Belugas:#openttd>lunch time
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12:32*Belugas:#openttd is tired
12:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>enjoy Belugas
12:32<@Belugas:#openttd>already
12:32<@Belugas:#openttd>thanks :)
12:33*peter1138:#openttd is about to go home.
12:33<Sacro:#openttd>Belugas: bon apptit!
12:33<Sacro:#openttd>*appetit
12:33*Sacro:#openttd really should get dressed
12:33*Eddi|zuHause:#openttd is about to go insane
12:33<Sacro:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: s/go/go \ more/
12:34<@peter1138:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause, get a better client :p
12:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>well, the wrong "give" message is at least understandable, but the "takes" message is just plain wrong...
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12:38*Belugas:#openttd reads a book on Guit Chords Chemistry
12:39*Pikka:#openttd is about to go to sleep
12:39<Pikka:#openttd>I turned this on to write a journal entry, but then decided not to...
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12:41<nick:#openttd>hello
12:41<nick:#openttd>can someone assist me with patching :)
12:42<nick:#openttd>i would like to patch the stable release 0.6.2 with a patch from a different revision, is this possible?
12:42<@Rubidium:#openttd>usually not
12:42<@Rubidium:#openttd>unless you know quite a bit about programming and want to spend time
12:42<nick:#openttd>well quite simply put i would like to share infrastures on 0.6.2 on a dedicated server, is there a quick way to this ?
12:43<nick:#openttd>i tested the revision the patch was written on and 0.6.2 client gives a mismatch version error
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12:47<@Rubidium:#openttd>both the client and server need to be running exactly the same version
12:47<@Rubidium:#openttd>otherwise you'll desync in no time
12:48<nick:#openttd>i have seen servers online running version 0.6.2 that have shared airports etc. do you know how this is done ?
12:49<@Rubidium:#openttd>no
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12:57<+glx:#openttd>they can't be 0.6.2
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13:15<@Belugas:#openttd>burps
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13:53<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: ieuw
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14:49<yorick:#openttd><+glx> they can't be 0.6.2 <-- it is :-p
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14:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>lol, is it me, or does myottd.net only run pre 0.6.2 servers? :)
14:52<yorick:#openttd>is isn't you, spcomb never bothered updating
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14:55<yorick:#openttd>everyone can use airports with OWNER_NONE <-- that is NOT, and I repeat, that is NOT a bug report, rather a 'feature abuse'
14:56<welshdragon:#openttd>yorick, interesting :p
14:56<yorick:#openttd>just they deadlocked in 0.6.2, but that was solved some time ago
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14:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>just being able to biuld such station, is a bug .. ;)
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14:57<welshdragon:#openttd>i'd like to see shared stations
14:57<yorick:#openttd>TrueBrain: you can't, so it isn't a bug
14:58<welshdragon:#openttd>it would save space, and you could set something that pays for access charges
14:59<SpComb:#openttd>TrueBrain: it's mostly a question of me waiting until I can shut it down
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15:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the only way to do that that i can imagine is hacking a savegame
15:00<@peter1138:#openttd>Bankruptcy springs to mind.
15:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>or the scenario editor
15:00<yorick:#openttd>Eddi: the scenario editor turned out the way to go :)
15:00<welshdragon:#openttd>peter1138, i'm used to bankruptcy :P
15:01<TrueBrain:#openttd>SpComb: why shut down?
15:02<SpComb:#openttd>TrueBrain: because I realized that I simply don't have the time that's required to develop and maintain such a service
15:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>too bad
15:03<SpComb:#openttd>I had a bunch of interesting ideas for how it would work, but implementing them would take years, based on the current rate of work
15:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>how hard can it be to write 'tar' ...
15:04<SpComb:#openttd>you mean to update it to have 0.6.2?
15:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=39648&p=729821#p729821 <- being 100% sarcastic for the first time in my life on the forums .. I feel like DaleStan ;)
15:04<SpComb:#openttd>ah
15:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>SpComb: I ment to update it to have 0.6.2 ;)
15:04<SpComb:#openttd>jar :)
15:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>but no, that 'tar' comment was not for you :p
15:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>(hehe, confusing, IRC ;)
15:05<yorick:#openttd>jarr!
15:05<SpComb:#openttd>the changes in the openttd.cfg stuff probably broke some of the MyOTTD stuff
15:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>SpComb: :(
15:05<SpComb:#openttd>which was the be expected
15:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>and it is always a shame that such projects consume such an amount of time
15:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>if only I have ALL the free time of the world, I knew 100 sub-projects in webpages dedicated to OpenTTD :p
15:06<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>aren't jar files like zip files in disguise?
15:06<yorick:#openttd>Eddi: I always thought they were
15:06<SpComb:#openttd>perhaps some day I'll get the motiviation to spend a week or two working on the code and get something that works, but it's not really something I've planned
15:06<yorick:#openttd>but it turns out they often don't have compression
15:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: like 'wad' are 'tar' files in disuise
15:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>SpComb: oh well .. too bad :(
15:07<yorick:#openttd>and 'tar' are 'tar' files without disguise
15:07<SpComb:#openttd>until then, I'd be interested in knowing what year the bugmenot MyOTTD server is in :)
15:07-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/OTTD-OSX-custom-r14356.zip <- up for testing, PPC, Intel, libz, libpng, it should work COMPLETELY
15:08<@peter1138:#openttd>wad files are different depending on what it was for...
15:08<@peter1138:#openttd>They're certainly not all tar files...
15:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>peter1138: agree'd :)
15:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>well, they never were tar-files at all, just the same basic idea ;)
15:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>same goed for 'zip' and 'jar' ;)
15:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>goed = goes
15:08-!-welshdragon [~vista@host86-145-214-136.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>that was the point I was trying to make :p
15:09<@peter1138:#openttd>Nnnot really.,
15:09-!-welshdragon [~vista@host86-145-214-136.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
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15:10<TrueBrain:#openttd>peter1138: what part? :)
15:22-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@g230224147.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
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15:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>http://onipepper.de/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/title2.jpg <- omg!
15:33<@Bjarni:#openttd>I kind of suspected foreign breweries used secret ingredients but I didn't expect this
15:33<@Bjarni:#openttd>I mean they usually try to hide it
15:35<@peter1138:#openttd>Piss water?
15:36<yorick:#openttd> yes, pisswater
15:37<yorick:#openttd>I think that was supposed to be a combination of ls, but some logo designer turned it into a ß :p
15:38<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Pissi Bir!
15:45<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain: your OS-X binary works flawlessly on intel OS-X 10.4
15:45<@Bjarni:#openttd>the newspaper once wrote about a maid in Indonesia (or somewhere around that area) that got really upset with her boss so she peed in his drink. He suspected something was wrong when she served it and he made her drink it
15:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>yippie
15:45<@Bjarni:#openttd>after that the police showed up and arrested her
15:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>I am now trying to input the data into the compile-farm ...
15:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>but it takes for ever to make a safety copy of a 3 GiB image .. :p
15:46<@Bjarni:#openttd>go figure
15:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>(lol)
15:46<@Bjarni:#openttd>note to readers: read every 2nd line for better understanding
15:47-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-177-146.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
15:47<@peter1138:#openttd>Yeah, TrueBrain makes much more sense.
15:47-!-welshdragon [~vista@host86-145-214-136.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
15:47<@peter1138:#openttd>TrueBrain :D
15:47<@peter1138:#openttd>114GB!
15:48<@Rubidium:#openttd>oh, you're counting in HDD GBs
15:48<@Rubidium:#openttd>not in real ones
15:48<@peter1138:#openttd>Yes, I forgot :(
15:48<TrueBrain:#openttd>'HDD GBs'.. a new SI unit? :p
15:48<@peter1138:#openttd>TrueBrain, not new :(
15:49<@Bjarni:#openttd>1 HHD GB = 1000 HHD MB
15:49-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>HDDs use GB, we use GiB
15:49<@Bjarni:#openttd>that one, right?
15:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>I don't see the problem there :)
15:50<TrueBrain:#openttd>silly udev, detecting a new card every time .. eth9 ... lol :p
15:51<@peter1138:#openttd>Heh
15:51<@peter1138:#openttd>That's not udev.
15:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>peter1138: every time it sees a new MAC
15:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>so it adds an other line in the udev rules, with a new 'eth' assigned
15:52<@peter1138:#openttd>It's a shell script that does that.
15:52<@peter1138:#openttd>udev doesn't particularly care...
15:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>very annoying, hitting the 'reset MAC address' button in your VM :p
15:52*yorick:#openttd thanks TrueLight for the nice resize description comment :)
15:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>of course it are the script ......
15:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>but those that come with a default udev install
15:52<@peter1138:#openttd>So it's easy to fix the script.
15:52<@peter1138:#openttd>True.
15:53<TrueBrain:#openttd>yeah, /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.conf
15:53<TrueBrain:#openttd>still, annoying :)
15:53-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
15:53*TrueBrain:#openttd has no idea what yorick is talking about .. nothing new there
15:53*peter1138:#openttd has no idea why he removed those channel modes.
15:53<yorick:#openttd>I said TrueLight :-P, the comment in window_gui.h
15:53<TrueBrain:#openttd>peter1138: I think it is time to put it back
15:54<@peter1138:#openttd>I think so.
15:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>:p
15:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>poor yorick :)
15:54<@Bjarni:#openttd>somebody stole his wallet?
15:54<@Bjarni:#openttd>or did he donate all his money to us?
15:55<@Bjarni:#openttd>I mean... you claim him to be poor
15:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>problem with testing this OSX ...
15:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>it takes 25 (!) minutes on my own machine to do a full compile
15:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>so I have to wait at least 30 minutes, before I know I forgot 'shutdown -h now' in the script :p
15:56-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-70-101.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
15:57<@Bjarni:#openttd>nice
15:58<@Bjarni:#openttd>so basically you are wasting CPU power
15:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>euh, we are compiling OpenTTD every night
15:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>if you want to talk about CPU wasting ...
15:58<@Bjarni:#openttd>hehe
15:59<@Bjarni:#openttd>at least people download those builds
15:59<@peter1138:#openttd>We could just not compile OS X builds...
15:59<@Bjarni:#openttd>we could shut down all computers in the world
15:59<TrueBrain:#openttd>I Agree with peter1138 :)
15:59<@Bjarni:#openttd>that would reduce the CO2 emissions by 2%
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16:11*Belugas:#openttd 's brain is melting... writing a ip client connection to a payment processing client that will talk to a payment processing server and hoping to get no time-out on the way...
16:12<@peter1138:#openttd>Hee
16:16-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
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16:28<@Belugas:#openttd>mmh... the only filter that i can remember is the one of stations
16:28<@Belugas:#openttd>and... frankly, it suck
16:29<@peter1138:#openttd>There's another filter.
16:29<@Belugas:#openttd>the one in small map?
16:29<@peter1138:#openttd>Industries on the minimap :D
16:29<@Belugas:#openttd>yeah :)
16:29<yorick:#openttd>meh, I'm trying to patch that to the industry list
16:30<@Belugas:#openttd>somehow, i don't think a transposition would be good
16:30<@peter1138:#openttd>Nope.
16:30*Belugas:#openttd rather see some kind of drop down menu
16:30*Belugas:#openttd remembers a patchhe made which introduced the checkbox widget
16:31-!-Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
16:31*Belugas:#openttd realizes there is still half an hour left to his slaverish part of teh day
16:31<@peter1138:#openttd>:(
16:32*peter1138:#openttd is considering going to bed, now that the CD has finished.
16:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>[2008-09-17 20:30:30] Job 0000176 finished in 1326 seconds
16:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>OSX (3 binaries in one)
16:32<@peter1138:#openttd>114.8GB!
16:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>always been an insane slow target :p
16:32<@peter1138:#openttd>:o
16:32<Prof_Frink:#openttd>1.21JW!
16:33<@peter1138:#openttd>22 minutes? How...?
16:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>peter1138: OSX is that slow
16:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>always been
16:33<@peter1138:#openttd>Ouch.
16:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>it used to take 6 minutes on 4 cores
16:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>now 22 minutes on 1 core
16:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>worst part: compile failed :(
16:34<@peter1138:#openttd>Why is it so slow? A load of extra complex headers or something?
16:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>ask OSX
16:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>I never knew it any different way
16:34<Prof_Frink:#openttd>< OSX> Because I fail.
16:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>well, there you have it
16:34<@peter1138:#openttd>Conclusive.
16:38<@peter1138:#openttd>114.9GB!
16:38<@peter1138:#openttd>Hah
16:38<@peter1138:#openttd>Well, I'm going to bed.
16:38<TrueBrain:#openttd>night peter1138
16:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>okay, changed things in OSX .. retrying
16:40<@Belugas:#openttd>night Mister Nelson
16:50-!-roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
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16:52-!-CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd
16:54<@Belugas:#openttd>CIA-1 joins and I leave for the rest of the day
16:54<@Belugas:#openttd>beuh bye
16:54<yorick:#openttd>how does the smallmap industry selector copy with at max 64 industries?
16:54<yorick:#openttd>cope*
16:56<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: frosch * r14335 /trunk/src/ (ai/default/default.cpp ai/trolly/build.cpp town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Remove some magic numbers.
16:57<frosch123:#openttd>news flash
16:58<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Eek! Multicoloured commitnotice!
16:59-!-Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-54470bf2.wfd82a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:59<TrueBrain:#openttd>tick tack, goes my clock
16:59<frosch123:#openttd>I like "frosch" being greenish :)
16:59<TrueBrain:#openttd>25 minutes is a long time if you are waiting for it ..
17:00<yorick:#openttd>tick tock, goes my clock
17:00<yorick:#openttd>learn to rhyme! :-)
17:01<TrueBrain:#openttd>'college' or 'Forgetting Sarah Marshall' ...
17:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>oeh, it finished ...
17:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>doesn't show 'failure' ion log ..
17:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>oh boy ... I don't dare to look ..
17:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>IEK!
17:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>it .. worked ...
17:03-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:03<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14340 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r11822): signs from old savegames were lost (causing little memory leaks)
17:03<@Bjarni:#openttd>looks like CIA is lagging
17:04<frosch123:#openttd>yes, about 48 hours
17:04-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-70-101.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
17:04<murray:#openttd>colors now? :D
17:04-!-KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd
17:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r14356/openttd-trunk-r14356-macosx-universal.zip
17:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>:) :) :) :)
17:04-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-70-101.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
17:04*TrueBrain:#openttd makes a dance!
17:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>Bjarni: go test it
17:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: if youahve the time, please test it
17:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>(should work, but I want to be 100% sure :p)
17:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>happy happy joy joy happy happy joy joy
17:05<yorick:#openttd>...
17:05<yorick:#openttd>happy happy joy joy happy happy joy joy
17:05<yorick:#openttd>happy happy happy happy joy joy happy happy hoy hoy hoy hoy happy happy joy!
17:06<@Bjarni:#openttd>works
17:06<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: frosch * r14333 /trunk/docs/ (landscape.html landscape_grid.html): -Documentation: Update docs/landscape*. Based on patch by yorick.
17:06<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14334 /trunk/src/ (17 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: ability to reset name to default/automatic value (for vehicles, engines, towns, groups, stations, waypoints, managers and companies)
17:06-!-yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [happy happy joy joy?]
17:06-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
17:06<teggigi:#openttd>is it possible to save junctions / stations like in rct? :o
17:06<yorick:#openttd>yes, happy happy joy joy!
17:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>Bjarni: tnx!
17:07<@Bjarni:#openttd>teggigi: no
17:07-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Happy happy joy joy Poef!]
17:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>I now expect some heavy personal donations
17:07<teggigi:#openttd>is it even possible to create one? :p
17:07-!-Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>lobster: happy? :)
17:07<@Bjarni:#openttd>teggigi: since we have the source code we can do everything
17:08-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:08<@Bjarni:#openttd>the question is how much work it will be and if it's worth the needed time
17:08<@Bjarni:#openttd>and if we want the result
17:08<teggigi:#openttd>well i'm definitely throwing the suggestion in the box :p
17:08<@Bjarni:#openttd>you aren't the first one to do so
17:08<teggigi:#openttd>i assumed as much :)
17:08<frosch123:#openttd>there is a copy and paste patch on the forums
17:08<lobster:#openttd>oh TrueBrain, awesome
17:09<lobster:#openttd>how did you do that?
17:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>I am known to have magic hands ;)
17:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>but we are using cross-compiler again
17:09<@Bjarni:#openttd><lobster> how did you do that? <-- he couldn't have done it without me
17:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>sadly enough
17:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>so no .dmg support yet
17:09<lobster:#openttd>ah, no problem
17:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>but ... at least working binaries, also for 10.5 Intel :)
17:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>Bjarni: LOL! PUKE PUKE
17:09<lobster:#openttd>zips are fine too :)
17:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>you just provided the SDK
17:09*lobster:#openttd goes to install it rightaway
17:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>which I had to wait for (for 4 hours :()
17:10<TrueBrain:#openttd>you couldn't even give me a shell access :(
17:10<teggigi:#openttd>my friend wants to know what you use to code this stuff
17:10<teggigi:#openttd>:o
17:11<@Bjarni:#openttd>computers
17:11<teggigi:#openttd>thanks, i'll totally tell him that
17:11<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14336 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r14334): when there was a station with custom name in an old savegame, it's default name was empty
17:11<teggigi:#openttd>;)
17:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>teggigi: refering to what?
17:11<teggigi:#openttd>TrueBrain i have no idea, i'm guessing code
17:11*Prof_Frink:#openttd slaps SmatZ
17:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>lobster: you do understand I now expect a donation from you? :)
17:11<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14337 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: use CmdRename* and CMD_RENAME_* for vehicle, president and company renaming commands, too
17:11<teggigi:#openttd>i have no clue about this at all so i won't assume too much :p
17:12<Prof_Frink:#openttd>"it is default name was empty"?
17:12-!-Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
17:12<lobster:#openttd>works like a charm, TrueBrain
17:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>teggigi: then I can't help you answer your question, if you don't know the question :)
17:12<lobster:#openttd>and well, at the next donation round i'll be sure do drop in a good few bucks
17:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>oh happy days!
17:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>Donations are always open ;) :p
17:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>hehe :)
17:13<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: glx * r14338 /branches/noai/ (112 files in 11 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14280:14337
17:13<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14339 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r13731): crash when loading the intro game failed
17:13-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd9d5.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:13<teggigi:#openttd>he apparently meant what language
17:13<teggigi:#openttd>and so did i, i just did a lol
17:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>oh then you should have asked for which language we use
17:15<teggigi:#openttd>yeah
17:15<teggigi:#openttd>:p
17:15<@Bjarni:#openttd>we use English most of the time
17:15-!-penfold [~p@cpc1-hem18-0-0-cust608.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:15<teggigi:#openttd>you so fanny
17:15<teggigi:#openttd>(y)
17:15-!-penfold [~p@cpc1-hem18-0-0-cust608.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
17:15<@Bjarni:#openttd>how about checking the source?
17:16<@Bjarni:#openttd>or the homepage
17:16<teggigi:#openttd>i am, just brainlagging a bit while trying to piece this junction together :p
17:16<murray:#openttd>shit, i see i'm a bit late, but i have to say - the new website is smooooth, congrats !
17:16<Sacro:#openttd>BJARNI!
17:17<@Bjarni:#openttd>http://sourceforge.net/projects/openttd <-- this is always a good place to start when trying to figure out which programming language a project is using
17:17<Prof_Frink:#openttd>KCOM.COM!
17:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>teggigi: ignore Bjarni; OpenTTD is written in C++ in its current stage
17:17<Sacro:#openttd>TrueBrain: porting to perl you say?
17:18<teggigi:#openttd>ah okay, thanks :p
17:18<@Bjarni:#openttd>hmm
17:18<teggigi:#openttd>i was looking at the wrong page then
17:18<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Sacro: No, fuckfuck.
17:18<teggigi:#openttd>:(
17:18<Sacro:#openttd>ooh
17:18<@Bjarni:#openttd>why is the SF page claiming the project to be part C and part C++?
17:18<Sacro:#openttd>first contact
17:18<Sacro:#openttd>in 1080p
17:18*Sacro:#openttd moves
17:18<@Bjarni:#openttd>away from us
17:19-!-roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
17:20-!-Tim [~Tim@p5B37C645.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:20<@Rubidium:#openttd>Bjarni: because we have .c files?
17:20<Chrill:#openttd>Brianetta: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=36465
17:21<@Bjarni:#openttd>Rubidium: we changed them to .cpp
17:22-!-Tim [~Tim@p5B37C645.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:22<lobster:#openttd>TrueBrain: oh joy
17:22<lobster:#openttd>it also doesn't slow down as soon as i reach a city :D
17:22*lobster:#openttd is floating in OTTD goodness
17:23<TrueBrain:#openttd>:) Good!
17:23<TrueBrain:#openttd>made one user happy again :p
17:23<@Bjarni:#openttd>87264 more to go
17:23<@Rubidium:#openttd>Bjarni: really? ah well, guess that find is broken as `find trunk -iname "*.c"` gives me results
17:24<@Bjarni:#openttd>hmm
17:24<Prof_Frink:#openttd>alan@frinkpad:~/src/openttd/trunk/src$ ls *.c
17:24<Prof_Frink:#openttd>ls: cannot access *.c: No such file or directory
17:24<@Bjarni:#openttd>os2 uses some c files
17:25<@Bjarni:#openttd>but if we classify the game as part C on that page, then why not mention objective C?
17:25<@Bjarni:#openttd>I mean I think we have more objective C than C
17:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>maybe it still counts the .c files in various branches?
17:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>or it counts the lines that have not changed between the renaming to .cpp and now?
17:27<@Bjarni:#openttd>I think a somebody manually selected what flags to display on that page
17:28<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>then change it? ;)
17:29<@Bjarni:#openttd>I can't
17:30<@Bjarni:#openttd>:(
17:30<@Bjarni:#openttd>for some reason nobody will give me the root password to the internet
17:31<@Bjarni:#openttd>I read on a mac news site the other day
17:32<@Bjarni:#openttd>there was a news item about Transport Tycoon was ported to OSX
17:32<@Bjarni:#openttd>it only took them 4 years to figure that out
17:33<@Bjarni:#openttd>people commented that it wasn't really news but it was still a good game and worth checking out
17:33<Chrill:#openttd>Is there a way to get a scneario landscape, but automatically removin all industries and cities?
17:33<@Bjarni:#openttd>but I like that a news site showed 4 years old news as recent news :p
17:37<Brianetta:#openttd>welshdragon: You went bankrupt.
17:37<Brianetta:#openttd>It's safe to return.
17:39<Brianetta:#openttd>"Your 'OPENTTDW.GRF' file is corrupted or missing! The file was part of your installation."
17:39<Brianetta:#openttd>Does this matter? I sem to be in the game...
17:39<welshdragon:#openttd>Brianetta, i know
17:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>Brianetta: expect graphical issues :p
17:41<Ammler:#openttd>maybe someone updated the grf but forgot the obg...
17:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>joy joy happy happy
17:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>OS X works, OS X works
17:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>lalala
17:41<Ammler:#openttd>you are genious :P
17:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>I know :)
17:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>(haha :p Puke puke)
17:41<Ammler:#openttd>:-D
17:41<murray:#openttd>:)
17:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>happy happy
17:45<Ammler:#openttd>from tomorrow on, we have again OSX nightliy?
17:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>check the website you twat :p
17:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: in other words, the OSX binaries are already available
17:48<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14341 /extra/pngcodec/ (7 files): [pngcodec] -Change: make the makefiles/scripts compatible with the compile farm.
17:48<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14342 /extra/pngcodec/ (Makefile Makefile.msvc crc32.hpp minipng.hpp): [pngcodec] -Fix: you can silent the compile too much ;) ('make' didn't show a thing, given a false idea of nothing doing anything)
17:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>even for NoAI :)
17:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>joy joy
17:50<Ammler:#openttd>ah
17:50<Ammler:#openttd>we do not use tonights nightly :-)
17:50<TrueBrain:#openttd>start using them :p
17:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>I am not going to compile any older ones :p
17:51<Ammler:#openttd>:P
17:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>(22 minutes per compile .. no tnx :p)
17:51<Ammler:#openttd>is that because they are universal?
17:51<Ammler:#openttd>3 in one
17:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>and because it is OSX
17:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>7 minutes for one ..
17:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>even MSVC is quicker :p
17:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>well .. almost :p
17:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>@calc 463 / 60
17:52<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: 7.71666666667
17:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>MSVC is slower :p
17:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>haha
17:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>insane ...
17:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>so yes, 3 in one is the only reason :p
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17:54<Ammler:#openttd>the problem of those univeral builds is, that you can't share OSX over TT-Forums.
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17:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>how do you mean?
17:55<Ammler:#openttd>max of attachments is 3MB
17:55<TrueBrain:#openttd>haha
17:55<TrueBrain:#openttd>8 MiB
17:55<TrueBrain:#openttd>not fitting :p
17:56<Ammler:#openttd>usual bundles are 2.7
17:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>non-universal, yes
17:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>nightlies are hitting 2.9, almost 3.0
17:58<Ammler:#openttd>well, orudge could also rise the limit
17:58<Ammler:#openttd>and make the limit per user
17:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>I don't need tt-forums to upload files :p
17:59<XeryusTC:#openttd>Ammler: split archives
18:00<Ammler:#openttd>TrueBrain: think for the community :P
18:01<Ammler:#openttd>well, it is not really bad, just a disadvantage of the universal build we had to fight with.
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18:06<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14343 /trunk/src/ (aircraft.h aircraft_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix [FS#2300]: invalid v->u.air.targetairport could cause crashes at several places when the station pool got smaller
18:07<Progman:#openttd>these bug report fixes always sound funny and in some kind weird ;)
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18:11<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14344 /trunk/src/station.cpp: -Fix: when a new airport is built in the same tick as the old station is deleted, aircraft may go crazy (and crash the game)
18:12<Progman:#openttd>like this one
18:13<Brianetta:#openttd>!seen aylomen
18:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>@seen aylomen
18:18<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: aylomen was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 6 hours, 47 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <Aylomen> www.openttdcoop.org
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18:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>orudge: you ever played in a movie?
18:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>I am watching one, and you really look like one of those persons :p
18:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>(compared to the TT Meet vide, that is)
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19:09<Nite_Owl:#openttd>Need to feed - L8r all
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19:14<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14345 /trunk/src/ (signs.cpp signs_func.h signs_gui.cpp):
19:14<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Fix: delete the RenameSignWindow when 'its' sign is deleted
19:14<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: Also, it makes sure the RenameSignWindow isn't open when there are no signs (and crashes associted with that)
19:15<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14346 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Codechange [FS#2184]: reduce code duplication when jumping to next/previous sign in signs_gui.cpp (Roujin)
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19:24<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>CIA-1 is still like a dozen revisions behind...
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19:40<+glx:#openttd>@op
19:40-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
19:43-!-mode/#openttd [+c] by glx
19:46<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14347 /branches/0.6/ (13 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
19:46<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
19:46<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: - Fix: Invalid v->u.air.targetairport could cause crashes at several places [FS#2300] (r14343, 14344)
19:46<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: - Fix: Signs from old savegames were lost (causing little memory leaks) (r14340)
19:46<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: - Fix: When a company was renamed and then manager was renamed before building anything, company name changed (r14328)
19:46<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: - Fix: When you rename a town before building something and build something near that town your company would be called "<old townname> Transport" [FS#2251] (r14327)
19:46<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: - Fix: Free any blocks that a helicopter may have on an oilrig when the helicopter gets forcefully removed (bankruptcy). For other airports this isn't needed as they can't be used by multiple companies [FS#2241] (r14324)
19:46<@glx:#openttd>hmm mode c half failed
19:48<@glx:#openttd>test
19:48<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14348 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp openttd.cpp): -Fix (r1667): signs were not updated on company bankrupcy/sell, they have colour of invalid player
19:48<@glx:#openttd>@deop
19:48-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
19:49<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14349 /branches/noai/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: AIEngineList showed all engines, instead the ones available to you
19:50<Sacro:#openttd>hmm
19:51-!-nicoRW [nico@f048240210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:52<Sacro:#openttd>You can have 2 subsidiaries offered at once
19:52<Sacro:#openttd>one from A=>B
19:52<Sacro:#openttd>and another from B=>A
19:52<Sacro:#openttd>:D
19:54-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...]
19:55<Sacro:#openttd>this route will either pay 8x or 16x
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20:29<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14350 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13927): do not draw PBS reservation for NW and NE depots, it is drawn through depot walls
20:29-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-177-146.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:30<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r14351 /trunk/src/yapf/follow_track.hpp: -Codechange: call CFollowTrackT::GetSingleTramBit() only if we know it is a tram, so compiler doesn't generate code for trains and ships
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21:29<@peter1138:#openttd>Sacro, subsidies are one-way.
21:29<Sacro:#openttd>peter1138: ah right
21:38-!-lilman424 [~evanseeds@r59h83.res.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:48<@peter1138:#openttd>Haha
21:48<@peter1138:#openttd>13388 plays since 11th March 2005...
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22:27<ecke:#openttd>my pings from czech rep to usa
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=107ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Vypršel časový limit žádosti.
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Vypršel časový limit žádosti.
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=106ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=107ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Vypršel časový limit žádosti.
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=108ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=107ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Vypršel časový limit žádosti.
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=106ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Vypršel časový limit žádosti.
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Vypršel časový limit žádosti.
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=106ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Vypršel časový limit žádosti.
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Vypršel časový limit žádosti.
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=108ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Vypršel časový limit žádosti.
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=107ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=109ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Vypršel časový limit žádosti.
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=106ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=108ms TTL=111
22:27<ecke:#openttd>Odpověď od 159.153.234.50: bajty=32 čas=107ms TTL=111
22:28<ecke:#openttd>some wale cut cables?
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22:52<@Belugas:#openttd>ecke, next time you do something as stupid as that, it will be a ban
22:53<Sacro:#openttd>that kind of stupidity is reserved for me
22:53<Sacro:#openttd>and Eddi|zuHause
22:54<Sacro:#openttd>and sometimes Wolf01
22:54<@Belugas:#openttd>mmh?
22:54<@Belugas:#openttd>how so?
22:54<@Rubidium:#openttd>and... that looks like quite a stable connection for Hungaria
22:58<@Belugas:#openttd>you sound a bit surprised ;)
23:00<@Rubidium:#openttd>surprised? nah, such stable connections from hungary happen sometimes
23:11<@Belugas:#openttd>hehe
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23:14<@orudge:#openttd>[22:55:44] <Ammler> max of attachments is 3MB <-- no, tis 4MB
23:14<@orudge:#openttd>anyway, sleep
23:15<@Belugas:#openttd>mmh...
23:15<@Belugas:#openttd>not enough memory on card
23:15<@Belugas:#openttd>recording stopped
23:15<@Belugas:#openttd>not my night :(
23:15*Belugas:#openttd goes to sleep
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23:16<lilman424:#openttd>does prospecting guarantee a new industry?
23:17<Pikka:#openttd>I don't think so...
23:18<lilman424:#openttd>do you know the approximate percentage chance?
23:18<Pikka:#openttd>afraid not
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 18 00:00:16 2008