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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-09-20

---Logopened Sat Sep 20 00:00:30 2008
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02:26<TrueBrain:#openttd>it is WAY too early for a saturday morning
02:26<roboboy:#openttd>fixing a problem with mibbit
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02:26<roboboy:#openttd>fixing a problem with mibbit
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02:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>even this channel is not awake ..
02:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>I need to buy matches, maybe my eyes stay open that way
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02:50<Tefad:#openttd>I AM AWAKE
02:51<hylje:#openttd>OH NOES
02:52*roboboy:#openttd wishes he didnt start his company at all on brians server
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03:21<dih:#openttd>Transporter is 8MB? wtf
03:22<SpComb:#openttd>Mui.
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03:22<jpm:#openttd>Hi
03:27<jpm:#openttd>Is there any list of gfx packs which are compatible with current truck?
03:27<dih:#openttd>did you google?
03:27<dih:#openttd>and those files are called GRF
03:28<Alberth:#openttd>@seen TrueBrain
03:28<@DorpsGek:#openttd>Alberth: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 57 minutes and 38 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> I need to buy matches, maybe my eyes stay open that way
03:29<Alberth:#openttd>TrueBrain: Any particular reason why you posted the VCS URL links at the forum and not at the Wiki?
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03:40<jpm:#openttd>dih: I did use google, search forum and GRFCrawler but no success...
03:40<dih:#openttd>jpm: you searched for grf pack?
03:40<jpm:#openttd>dih: yes
03:41<jpm:#openttd>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=38122&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1980
03:41<jpm:#openttd>last two posts
03:41<dih:#openttd>you searched google for grf package?
03:41<dih:#openttd>i dont believe you if you say yes, because the first hit is a pretty good one
03:42<jpm:#openttd>First form google: http://tex.loria.fr/graph-pack/grf/grf.htm
03:42<Alberth:#openttd>ROFL!!
03:43<dih:#openttd>if i search for grf package i get a very very beautiful hit
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03:43<dih:#openttd>http://www.google.de/search?q=grf+pack
03:44<@Celestar:#openttd>morning
03:44<@Celestar:#openttd>mesa back
03:44<Alberth:#openttd>Celestar: Good morning
03:44<jpm:#openttd>Anyway same grf packages which I have been using are not compatible with r14325 anymore. Game crashes are couple of years
03:44<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you watch too much star wars :p
03:44<@Celestar:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: :P
03:45<jpm:#openttd>crashes after couple of years...
03:45<dih:#openttd>jpm: i just pointed you to a great google result page
03:46<dih:#openttd>have a look at that
03:46<@peter1138:#openttd>Dih, google result pages are not always the same for everyone.
03:47<dih:#openttd>result pages may differ across the various domains (i.e. google.com and google.de)
03:48<Alberth:#openttd>In this case, I suspect there is a huge difference between searching for 'grf' and 'grf pack'
03:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>domain is not relevant, afaik. more language settings and stuff
03:49<@Celestar:#openttd>Rubidium: you got a sec?
03:49<dih:#openttd>jpm: visit www.openttdcoop.org
03:49<dih:#openttd>there is a link
03:49<dih:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause, and domain is also relevant
03:50<jpm:#openttd>dih: good page, I have been there many times. It would be nice to have last modified date information for grf packs...
03:50<Alberth:#openttd>jpm: Isn't the version number enough?
03:51<dih:#openttd>the date is displayed in brackets next to the version number
03:51<dih:#openttd>Version 7.2 (2008-08-14)
03:52<jpm:#openttd>dih, I mean individual grf packs like Estonian Town Names
03:53<dih:#openttd>that's not a grf PACKAGE
03:53<dih:#openttd>that's a grf
03:53<dih:#openttd>you either have the pack and they are all compatible, or you search for yourself :-P
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03:55<Ammler:#openttd>jpm: check the GRFLIST.html in the pack.
04:00<jpm:#openttd>hmm...
04:02<jpm:#openttd>Can you say are original grf files still compatible with truck or should I use OpenGFX files like opengfx1r.grf
04:04<Alberth:#openttd>Assuming 'original' means the GRF files from TTD, yesterday they were (and it is 'trunk' not 'truck')
04:05<jpm:#openttd>Alberth: okey, thanks.
04:09<jpm:#openttd>Maybe OpenGFX_-_newInfrastructure_v0.4.grf or OpenGFX_-_newInfrastructure_v0.4.grf is causing crash...
04:10<jpm:#openttd>Crashes in vehicle.cpp on line 953 : b >= v->top_coord) {
04:11<jpm:#openttd>in year 1960
04:11<dih:#openttd>then play without additional grf files and see what happens ;-)
04:11<Ammler:#openttd>you should use the newest files for bugreports...
04:11<dih:#openttd>and that
04:12<jpm:#openttd>Ammler: Where I can found newest grf files? From forum? from crawler? From google?
04:12<Ammler:#openttd>exactly
04:12<jpm:#openttd>aarg!
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04:13<dih:#openttd>jpm, just for once try to find stuff yourself! :-P
04:14<dih:#openttd>try the forums, if there is something newer than you have, use that
04:14<dih:#openttd>try grf crawler, if you find something newer in there than you have, use that
04:14<dih:#openttd>try google, if you find something newer in there, use that
04:14<dih:#openttd>try the grf pack from openttdcoop, if you find something newer in there than you have, use that
04:15<jpm:#openttd>dih, I have been searching grf files for years... Sometimes I have managed to get working package. No its broken.
04:15<dih:#openttd>c'mon!
04:15<dih:#openttd>you have keywords
04:16<dih:#openttd>search the forums for opengfx_newinfrastructure
04:16<dih:#openttd>what is so hard about that?
04:16<dih:#openttd>just because it means you need to read a few pages before you get what you are after?
04:16<dih:#openttd>Ammler already hinted that there was a newer version of that said grf
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04:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hmm... i still have not found a way to rearrange the windows in the taskbar...
04:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>in kicker
04:19<jpm:#openttd>dih: Did you check out this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=38122&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1980
04:19<dih:#openttd>why would i - i am not searching for anything :-P
04:19<dih:#openttd>i am quite aware of the opengfx project
04:20<jpm:#openttd>dih: I was just wondering is there any list of grf files which are compatible current trunk?
04:20<jpm:#openttd>If not...
04:21<jpm:#openttd>I will do my searches...
04:21<dih:#openttd>most of the ones i know are in the openttdcoop grf pack
04:21<dih:#openttd>version 7.2 also still includes the opengfx project
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04:22<dih:#openttd>now i searched for opengfx_newinfrastructure
04:22<dih:#openttd>and have already found a 0.5
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04:23<dih:#openttd>page 83
04:23<Ammler:#openttd>I know no newgrf which isn't compatible anymore, well, maybe it gives a strange debug output, but...
04:24<dih:#openttd>were there not authors who made their grf's incompatible for a reason?
04:25<Ammler:#openttd>well, I know none of them
04:25<dih:#openttd>Rubidium would know some i think
04:27<@peter1138:#openttd>An incompatible GRF would not work properly in TTDPatch.
04:28<jpm:#openttd>Okey, what does this mean: Batti5 : The new infrastrucutre gives a fatal error, and much of the grfs dont work! in r14325 and FooBar's answer: Yes, we (or, at least, I) know. Will not be fixed though because opengfx1r.grf is almost complete and a test version released. Use that instead, or downgrade to an older version of OpenTTD.
04:29<jpm:#openttd>On page 100. http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=38122&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1980
04:30<Ammler:#openttd>do you need translator or what?
04:31<jpm:#openttd>Ammler: maybe :)
04:32<jpm:#openttd>I thought there have been made big changes in trunk so that old grfs are not working anymore...
04:32<Alberth:#openttd>jpm: Welcome to bleeding edge releases
04:32<jpm:#openttd>Alberth: thanks
04:33<Ammler:#openttd>jpm: afaik only error/debug handling...
04:34<@peter1138:#openttd>Very minor change.
04:35<jpm:#openttd>Okey...
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04:42<Alberth:#openttd>jpm: In general, GRFs work afaik. However, some combinations work and others don't. Also, everything is actively being developed, so the set of working combinations changes in time. As long as you speak in general terms (GRFs in general), we cannot really help you due to the several zillion possible combinations that you may or may not use. If you have a specific combination that fails in trunk but not in the latest release, find out what the b
04:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>your client fails :p
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04:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>my client automatically breaks such long sentences into several lines ;)
04:46<Alberth:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: This is still the first IRC client program that I use :P
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04:48<jpm:#openttd>Alberth: I see, I was just seeking some centralized list of grf files to help finding working compinations.
04:50<jpm:#openttd>Maybe openttdcoop is provading most complete lists...
04:50<@peter1138:#openttd>Well grfcrawler is supposed to be that... alas...
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04:51<insulfrog:#openttd>hi
04:51<Alberth:#openttd>jpm: That list changes as a result of development. If you can find a way to keep it up-to-date for the zillion combinations, we will all be very happy
04:52<jpm:#openttd>Alberth: I will think about it...
04:53<jpm:#openttd>It would need grf compination tester.
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04:56*Celestar:#openttd wants to merge cargodest :P
04:56<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>please do ;)
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04:57<jpm:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Wait a second, I will send it to you email in hour :)
04:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>jpm: i was not talking to your
04:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>-r
04:58<jpm:#openttd>=)
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05:55<planetmaker:#openttd>[10:25] [grf-talk] <Ammler> well, I know none of them <-- the latest canset might not work for revisions > r14000
05:56<Ammler:#openttd>it does not with dyn. pool
05:56<planetmaker:#openttd>but as the devellopers have gone sulking and withdrew them, it's mute to mind it.
05:56<@Celestar:#openttd>http://frank.soic.de/exkursion/ice-erfurt-leipzig-halle/saale-elster-talbruecke/saale-elster-talbruecke_lageplan+.jpg <= heh .. nice bridge
05:57<planetmaker:#openttd>hehe :) yes
05:57*planetmaker:#openttd sees Celestar's next OpenTTD project dawning :P
05:58<planetmaker:#openttd>Celestar: just a random question: how good are chances to reduce the dependancy of cargodest on the boost package?
05:58<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: bad
05:58<planetmaker:#openttd>e.g. how much additional code will be integrated into trunk once you start merging it?
05:58<planetmaker:#openttd>the whole library sort-of?
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05:58<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: the whole BGL needs to be installed during compile-time
05:59<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: no additional software is needed during run-time
05:59<planetmaker:#openttd>yeah, I was talking about compile-time :)
05:59<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: I dunno. maybe at some point I feel like writing a graph library :P
06:00<planetmaker:#openttd>:P I got doubts that that will be anytime soon :)
06:00<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: it's a pretty enormous project
06:00<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: I'll rather fix multistop first (=
06:00<planetmaker:#openttd>^^ that's why :)
06:01*Celestar:#openttd wonders whether "neuron" has actually bothered to read the wiki/forum thread at all.
06:01<planetmaker:#openttd>you got yourself a rough schedule for the further cargodest development? (I don't want to nail or hold you liable to anything, just curious)
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06:02<planetmaker:#openttd>or, maybe rather guestimate than schedule :)
06:03<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: that depends on how much the Other Devs want change for a merge. I don't think I'll introduce new features to cargodest before the merge.
06:03<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: I think trunk merge might be possible in not too distance future (=
06:04<planetmaker:#openttd>no, sure, no new features, that'd be too much. KISS principle is always advisable, especially with new features :)
06:05<@Celestar:#openttd>agreed.
06:05<@Celestar:#openttd>feature wise, it's basically frozen for the moment
06:05<planetmaker:#openttd>the features are quite awesome :)
06:06<@Celestar:#openttd>:D
06:06<@Celestar:#openttd>I feel like doing another test
06:06<@Celestar:#openttd>I have a bit of time tomorrow and next week
06:06*planetmaker:#openttd got no time till middle of 2nd next week... I'll head for conference early Monday morning
06:07<planetmaker:#openttd>but the dev servers is yours to use :)
06:07<@Celestar:#openttd>I've just had 2 conference in the past 2 weeks.
06:08<@Celestar:#openttd>I've return from Berlin yesterday night.
06:08<@peter1138:#openttd>Pom te pom
06:08<@Celestar:#openttd>it was my first ever try to use the ICE from Munich-Berlin and v.v.
06:08<planetmaker:#openttd>:) Should be alright, is it?
06:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Celestar: yeah, they are currently setting the pillars for the bridge
06:08<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: yes. but it takes 5.5h.
06:08<planetmaker:#openttd>I ever only tested half-way: Jena-Berlin or Jena-Munich (and vice versa)
06:09<@peter1138:#openttd>Hmm
06:09<planetmaker:#openttd>yeah... going by plane saves you maybe two hours or so? (Considering check-in and travel times to and from the airports)
06:09<@peter1138:#openttd>Artic road vehicle problems!
06:09<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: 1.5hrs about.
06:09<Ammler:#openttd>[11:59] <Celestar> planetmaker: I dunno. maybe at some point I feel like writing a graph library <-- copy&paste the boost?
06:10<planetmaker:#openttd>k :)
06:10<@peter1138:#openttd>I just saw a 2 part vehicle with both parts on each other :o
06:10<SpComb:#openttd>YARR
06:10<@peter1138:#openttd>It went into the depot and fixed itself.
06:10<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: yesterday from Berlin, we had 20 minutes delay in Leipzig, but arrived 5 Minutes early in Nuremburg.
06:10<planetmaker:#openttd>peter1138: lol :)
06:10<murray:#openttd>SpComb: talk like a pirate day was yesterday
06:10<planetmaker:#openttd>Celestar: he :) nice speed gain :)
06:10<SpComb:#openttd>pfft
06:10<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>in Ammendorf they already started the bridge itself. i go by there every now and then
06:11<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: Without any modification, 5hours would be possible with a little schedule optimizations.
06:11<@Celestar:#openttd>without modification to tracks.
06:11<planetmaker:#openttd>Celestar: and get rid of any error margin, probably :)
06:11<@Celestar:#openttd>planetmaker: yeah, but >10% margin is a little much.
06:12<@Celestar:#openttd>Munich-Nuremburg can be done in 55 minutes with an ICE3, the fastest schedule is 62 minutes however.
06:12<planetmaker:#openttd>not that bad, I think. 10% isn't that much IMO.
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06:13<Kasceh:#openttd>What would I need to type in console to increase station spread if I knew the rcon?
06:13<@Celestar:#openttd>Kasceh: patch max_station_spread <value> ?
06:13<planetmaker:#openttd>otherwise: rtfm ;)
06:13<@Celestar:#openttd>Kasceh: .. without "max_"
06:13<Kasceh:#openttd>so rcon pass patch station_spread xx?
06:14<planetmaker:#openttd>in general it's a good idea to check your config for the name of the patch option.
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06:14<planetmaker:#openttd>rcon pass "patch station_spread 42"
06:14<planetmaker:#openttd>mind the "
06:15<Kasceh:#openttd>Ok, thanks
06:15<planetmaker:#openttd>btw, dear devs: May I propose to rename this "patch" into "set"?
06:15<planetmaker:#openttd>It's not really a patch but a setting...
06:15<@Celestar:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: it's embarrassing how long this country needs for 100km of high speed track :P
06:16<Wolf01:#openttd>hello
06:16<@Celestar:#openttd>bongiorno
06:16<planetmaker:#openttd>moin :)
06:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Celestar: well, this bride does cross nature-protection areas and stuff...
06:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i'm actually wondering how they managed to get permission at all :p
06:17<Kasceh:#openttd>Where is the config file
06:17<@Celestar:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: I'm too, but since permission is there, they could as well hurry
06:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>well, according to my observations, they put up like one pillar per week...
06:18<Alberth:#openttd>Kasceh: What about searching for openttd.cfg?
06:18<Wolf01:#openttd>what's the progress with the mind control device for OTTD?... oh wait.. that was a dream
06:18<Kasceh:#openttd>Ah, i was searching for just "config" :p
06:18<@Celestar:#openttd>me->shower();
06:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Wolf01: there was a link for a BCI adapter a while ago
06:19<planetmaker:#openttd>me->give(Celestar,soap) ;)
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06:23<ln-:#openttd>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/09/19/microsofts-im-a-pc-ads-created-on-macs/
06:23<ln-:#openttd>http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/lpc_2008_keynote.html
06:23<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>a like 10 years ago they had a presentation at our school how they were planning the route, and they considered like 4 alternative routes. one was a little further south, which would have passed through a chemical industry area, but after they made ground tests they quickly threw away that idea, as they would have spent enormous amounts of money to get rid of the top layer of earth first :p
06:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>another alternative was, instead of using the old thuringian entrance (Eisenach-Erfurt-Weißenfels-Halle), they would take the entrance of the Kassel-Nordhausen-Halle track, a little further north, but then they would have built through a mining area, where the ground was unstable
06:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>(there was an earthquake a few years ago)
06:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>(due to a collapsing mine)
06:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i don't remember what the fourth option was
06:27<Ammler:#openttd>planetmaker: maybe it is meant to "patch" the setting ;-)
06:30<planetmaker:#openttd>:P
06:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>planetmaker: that should be a small patch ;)
06:31<Ammler:#openttd>ln-: amateurs = debian?
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06:32<planetmaker:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: :) possibly
06:32<planetmaker:#openttd>nice pun :)
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06:33<rk47:#openttd>hello!
06:33<rk47:#openttd>i have some question to make about ottd..
06:33<rk47:#openttd>can someone help me?
06:35<rk47:#openttd>is it possible to rotate map? :s
06:35<rk47:#openttd>...
06:35<rk47:#openttd>is this empty?
06:36<ln-:#openttd>yes, sir
06:36<helb:#openttd>rk47: no
06:36<rk47:#openttd>no rotate map..
06:36<rk47:#openttd>but was it possible in the original ottd?
06:36<Vikthor:#openttd>no it was not
06:37<rk47:#openttd>ok
06:37<rk47:#openttd>tks
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06:53<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: frosch * r14362 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r3403): Also connect multiheaded parts in free wagon chains.
06:58<@peter1138:#openttd>𝘞𝘩𝘺?
06:58<@peter1138:#openttd>Aww
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07:08<insulfrog:#openttd>cya :)
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07:19<Doorslammer:#openttd>I didnt realise that he wanted to draw the Iranian 141 himself :S
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07:20<Doorslammer:#openttd>Not being biased or anything, davidx123's one was crap :P So Ive provided him with a new sprite :)
07:21*Doorslammer:#openttd adds his own brownie points to the table
07:21<@peter1138:#openttd>Well, that's not surprising.
07:21<Doorslammer:#openttd>Does he even know what he wants in the set?
07:22<Doorslammer:#openttd>I dont have a clue where it's going. I dont know which countries, what locos etc.
07:22<@peter1138:#openttd>Don't expect a newbie to know anything...
07:22<Doorslammer:#openttd>Oh I'm not, trust me ;)
07:23<Doorslammer:#openttd>I do want a success at least, because it is rather different and a good idea, just hope he clearly defines what it's all about very soon
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07:55*peter1138:#openttd wonders if, in the absence of shared infrastructure, cargodest could be made to work between adjacent stations.
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08:52<Alberth:#openttd>yorick: So much trouble just to get in :P
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09:15<@peter1138:#openttd>Oh really.
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10:17<roboboy:#openttd>fixing a problem with mibbit
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10:17<roboboy:#openttd>fixing a problem with mibbit
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10:17<roboboy:#openttd>fixing a problem with mibbit
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10:17<roboboy:#openttd>mibbit was restarted
10:18<yorick:#openttd>what?
10:19<@peter1138:#openttd>His internet connection sucks, so instead of having it fixed, he uses a web-based IRC client.
10:19<Sacro:#openttd>x-chat worked for him
10:20<roboboy:#openttd>kinda
10:21<roboboy:#openttd>lets see if x-chat gets in again
10:21<ln-:#openttd>the quit/join flood is not enough, he has to even say something every time
10:21<roboboy:#openttd>would you rather know why im part joining than random spam?
10:22<@peter1138:#openttd>Not really. :)
10:22<roboboy:#openttd>well i reported the bug to both chrome and mibbit
10:23<Doorslammer:#openttd>Gawd's sake, more mibbits than a bloody frog
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10:36<sulai:#openttd>hey =)
10:36<sulai:#openttd>how are you guys doing :)
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10:56<ccfreak2k:#openttd>peter1138, if he has a shell server, he can do what I do and use psybnc.
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12:08<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: glx * r14363 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix [FS#2206]: some keypress combinations could be handled twice
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12:11<Kasceh:#openttd>ugh
12:11<Kasceh:#openttd>Is there a command to see a company list and their id?
12:11<@peter1138:#openttd>Yes.
12:11<Kasceh:#openttd>What is it?
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12:22<jpm:#openttd>Kasceh: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Console_Commands
12:28<Doorslammer:#openttd>I'm not a good judge of these sorts of things, Ted, but I'd guess there is about 17 million people in here...
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12:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>Wolf01: biker-addition is COOL!
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12:51<Forked:#openttd>if you have access to a "shell server", why use psybnc? just use irssi :)
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13:11<sulai:#openttd>what about making string_func object oriented? I was just trying to create an own news message and it's a pain ;)
13:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>sulai: feel free
13:13<sulai:#openttd>hm not sure if I have enough knowledge of the code to do that
13:14<sulai:#openttd>and even if I did, how propably is it to get into the trunk... it's not very likely I think
13:14<SpComb:#openttd>next time roboboy is here, someone tell him that you can give /part a message...
13:15<@peter1138:#openttd>sulai, what would it gain?
13:15<sulai:#openttd>peter1138: ever tried to add another news message?
13:15*frosch123:#openttd added some for autoreplace
13:16<Wolf01:#openttd>TrueBrain: yeah
13:16<@peter1138:#openttd>No, but I don't see how string_func.h is related.
13:16<sulai:#openttd>I'm newbie to the code... and I just see... SetDParam.. hm what for??!
13:17<frosch123:#openttd>to fill the {xxx} with content
13:17<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>SetDParam sets the values that will be replaced for {STRING}, {COMMA} etc.
13:17<sulai:#openttd>if it was object oriented it would look like: my_string.setparam... ok a little less confusion ;)
13:17<@peter1138:#openttd>"I don't know what it's for, therefore I'll rewrite it all"?
13:17<yorick:#openttd>Eddi: {COMMA} ?!
13:17<yorick:#openttd>you can replace ',' by something else?
13:17<sulai:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: I know... but it's not very nice coding style
13:18<Wolf01:#openttd>TrueBrain: today I unlocked 13 cars and all the B class events
13:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yorick: i have a patch for that on flyspray ;)
13:18<yorick:#openttd>still shouldn't be with DParam
13:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>Wolf01: I only played with Motors lately :)
13:18<@peter1138:#openttd>yorick, gives a number with commas.
13:18<@peter1138:#openttd>1,000 instead of 1000
13:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>40% done, and many MP thingies :)
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13:19*yorick:#openttd hides back under stone
13:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>sulai: no, it uses global variables, it is definitely not nice style, but it is there and it works
13:19<sulai:#openttd>jep...
13:20<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you don't just spend hours or even days replacing something just because it is bad style
13:20<@peter1138:#openttd>You'll have fun with converting windows.
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13:20<Wolf01:#openttd>me 43% done and only 2 MP objectives
13:20<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you only rewrite something because it reduces maintenance reduces by several orders of magnitude
13:20<frosch123:#openttd>and newgrf texts :)
13:20<sulai:#openttd>I just wonder if we could do it object oriented... don't know how much work it is, and the latest thing I want to do is to ask some of you to do it ;)
13:21<yorick:#openttd>now I wonder why windows thinks that referencing a NULL pointer is a problem caused by Trojan.PWS.Legmir.AD / W32.Ahlem.A@mm
13:21<sulai:#openttd>hm but anyway I got news ;)
13:22<sulai:#openttd>I just made a patch which shows a newspaper if some player gets a new performance rate title
13:23<sulai:#openttd>(thats why I had some contact to SetDParam())
13:23<+glx:#openttd>SetDParam() is easy to use
13:23<yorick:#openttd>I wouldn't like even more news...
13:26<frosch123:#openttd>NewNews could be an addition to NewObjects and NewDisasters
13:27<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14364 /branches/noai/src/rail_cmd.cpp: [NoAI] -Add: add the ability to CmdBuildSingleSignal to directly place the correct signal, instead of requiring multiple inputs before doing so
13:28<sulai:#openttd>yes... and news can be turned off
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13:29<insulfrog:#openttd>hi all
13:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>frosch123: newobjects, is that like eyecandy buildings?
13:31<frosch123:#openttd>ask Belugas or Lakie, but I think so
13:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i had this idea once, that such eyecandy objects, in conjunctions with newgrf_ports could be used to create non-station predefined road layouts. like cloverleaf highway crossings
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>things that wouldn't be possible by just putting (new)road bits together
13:37<Lakie:#openttd>Just eye candy objects.
13:37<Lakie:#openttd>There is no code to even handle a rv or train trying to enter the tile let alone how to move it on the tile
13:43<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: glx * r14365 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Backport (r14364 from NoAI): add the ability do CmdBuildSingleSignal to directly place the correct signal, instead requiring multiple inputs before doing so
13:48<sulai:#openttd>There's my patch, hope you like it :) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=39679&p=730381
13:48<sulai:#openttd>anyway, i gotta go
13:49<sulai:#openttd>cya soon :)
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14:02<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Lakie: well, yes, the movement part would come from newgrf_ports (once it is extended to bus/tram stations)
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14:14<Lakie:#openttd>What level of overhead would that add for objects newgrf specs though?
14:14<Lakie:#openttd>Also I can't see why you need objects for that end
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14:31<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: frosch * r14366 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14362): Match multiheaded parts starting from the first vehicle in a chain.
14:31<frosch123:#openttd>don't complain about desyncs for today's nightly :)
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14:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>frosch123: I have a desync! :p
14:34*TrueBrain:#openttd goes sit in a corner being quiet and all
14:34<Wolf01:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: do you mean something like the highway junctions on sim city 3000?
14:34<frosch123:#openttd>well, actually I guess I am lucky, as it is not that easy to trigger
14:34<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>more like those of 4000
14:35<Wolf01:#openttd>http://www.sc3000.com/images/kt/highway_alt_t_intersection.jpg
14:35<nckomodo:#openttd>holy crap that looks awesome
14:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>no, 3000 is rubbish
14:36<nckomodo:#openttd>and then suddenly I realized it was not OTTD
14:36<nckomodo:#openttd>and I frowned
14:36<nckomodo:#openttd>on the inside
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14:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it doesn't have the indirect loops
14:37<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>which is unsuitible for ottd, because they should actually be used...
14:37<frosch123:#openttd>silly junction, you cannot turn left
14:38<Wolf01:#openttd>that's their idea of a cloverleaf: http://www.sc3000.com/images/kt/cloverleaf.jpg
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14:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that's the silliest thing i have ever seen...
14:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>http://www.kurumi.com/roads/interchanges/simcity4_cloverleaf.jpg
14:40<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you could place those as a whole, and then attach normal highways to each end
14:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>wow, did I end up in the wrong channel
14:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>simcity ..
14:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>darn ..
14:40<nckomodo:#openttd>eww
14:40<nckomodo:#openttd>3d
14:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>today I many times heard about teleports, but this ..
14:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you could theoretically do that with just newgrf_ports, but then it would have to be a station, which is not really desireable
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14:44<Wolf01:#openttd>set it as a non-stop destination and you have a waypoint-junction
14:45*TrueBrain:#openttd back to his bikes .. I like driving bikes :)
14:45<Wolf01:#openttd>http://www.sc3000.com/knowledge/showarticle.cfm?id=1095&openItemID= those are more TT-like, they try to do with roads what we do with rail :D
14:46<frosch123:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: You have a very idealized vision of newgrf_ports :)
14:46<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, i do ;)
14:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>frosch123: maybe Eddi|zuHause wants to join the team on newgrf_ports? :)
14:47<Ammler:#openttd>Wolf01: join before split :P
14:47<Wolf01:#openttd>they have basetunnels!!!
15:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>damn, now i need to play sc4 again...
15:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm... i have no idea if it even runs under wine
15:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and i have also no idea where i put it...
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15:04<nick:#openttd>how can i prevent people mass terraforming til the point it destroys the map in a multiplayer game ?
15:05<@Bjarni:#openttd>take all their money
15:05<@peter1138:#openttd>Or password protect the server and don't give out the password...
15:05<nick:#openttd>hmm
15:05<nick:#openttd>i want it to be public as 90% of public play nice
15:06<@Bjarni:#openttd>trace the IPs of the offenders and show up at their home and beat the shit out of them
15:06<Sacro:#openttd>ooh
15:06<Sacro:#openttd>there's someone at the door
15:06<@Bjarni:#openttd>:D
15:06<@Bjarni:#openttd>BONUS!!!
15:07<jpm:#openttd>OTTD Warrior!
15:07<Slowpoke:#openttd>Watch out, Sacro, it's Bjarni!
15:08<nick:#openttd>is there a way to make teraforming cost a lot !?
15:08<@Bjarni:#openttd>yeah
15:08<jpm:#openttd>nick: make a patch.
15:08<jpm:#openttd>as I did
15:08<@Bjarni:#openttd>write a patch to increase cost and wait two years for it to be committed
15:08<Wolf01:#openttd>there's a grf
15:09<Wolf01:#openttd>basecosts or how it is called
15:10<@Bjarni:#openttd>actually it would be nice to have a limit (maybe based on company size) where terraforming is as it is now below the limit and once you are over, it either cost a fortune or you can't at all
15:10<@Bjarni:#openttd>something like you can only terraform x times every month
15:10<@Bjarni:#openttd>err
15:10<@Bjarni:#openttd>x tiles
15:10<Ammler:#openttd>or based on town rating
15:10<@Bjarni:#openttd>which would prevent huge drag n drop terraforming
15:11<@Bjarni:#openttd>Ammler: how would town rating prevent a single huge terraforming?
15:11<Wolf01:#openttd>it would be nice to have the terraforming cost as cost^tiles, so you can terraform one tile per time, but more tiles you terraform more you pay
15:11<@Bjarni:#openttd>that would make drag n drop useless
15:11<Ammler:#openttd>Bjarni: first there shouldn't be a min. for town rating
15:12<yorick:#openttd>people would just create new commands
15:12<Ammler:#openttd>(switch off tree cheating)
15:12<Wolf01:#openttd>maybe this behavior could be enabled when the number of tiles is larger than 10x10
15:12<Ammler:#openttd>then you can only as much terraform as your town allows, like stations
15:13<@Bjarni:#openttd>max number of terraformed tiles/month would actually be interesting
15:13<@Bjarni:#openttd>specially if the number is really low
15:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>like 10
15:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>would make the game harder
15:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>and surely build on slopes wouldn't count as terraforming
15:15<Wolf01:#openttd>the limit should be based on the difficulty
15:15<Ammler:#openttd>that should also splitted, terraforming and foundations have same base.
15:15<@Bjarni:#openttd>either that or a server setting
15:15<@peter1138:#openttd>Splitted is not a word.
15:15*Bjarni:#openttd still wonders what Ammler actually intend to say
15:16<@Bjarni:#openttd>*intended
15:16<@peter1138:#openttd>He meant to say:
15:16<murray:#openttd>< Ammler> murr4y is the coolest and most evil skull on the planet
15:17<@peter1138:#openttd>Maybe the base cost for terraforming and using foundations should be split up.
15:17<@Bjarni:#openttd>murray: muhahhahaha
15:17<@peter1138:#openttd>(To which I say, nope.)
15:17<murray:#openttd>that's what he meant to say
15:17<Ammler:#openttd>well almost ;-)
15:17<Ammler:#openttd>without "maybe"
15:17<@peter1138:#openttd>murray, your goal is to be an evil skull?
15:17<murray:#openttd>i AM an evil skull!
15:18<@peter1138:#openttd>Oh, well, if you're making demands, you can also bugger off.
15:18<@Bjarni:#openttd>he is the most evil skull in the world
15:18<@Bjarni:#openttd>be nice to him or he will scare you
15:18<@Bjarni:#openttd>he might scare you even if you are nice to him though
15:18<@peter1138:#openttd>No, the only skulls that scare me were those in Doom.
15:19<@Bjarni:#openttd>murray: now it's time to go "BOO!"
15:19<murray:#openttd>BOOOOH!
15:19<@Bjarni:#openttd>muhahaha
15:20<Ammler:#openttd>peter1138: why wouldn't you split that?
15:20<@peter1138:#openttd>Oh, they were Lost Souls, weren't they?
15:20<@Bjarni:#openttd>I don't know
15:21<@Bjarni:#openttd>I never really understood Doom
15:21<Ammler:#openttd>doesn't newgrf basecost allow it?
15:21<@peter1138:#openttd>Well no, you're a Mac user.
15:21<@Bjarni:#openttd>I never really understood 1st person shooting games
15:21<murray:#openttd>what's there to understand?
15:22<@Bjarni:#openttd>I don't know
15:22<murray:#openttd>so.. you just don't enjoy them?
15:23<@Bjarni:#openttd> <peter1138> Well no, you're a Mac user. <-- I actually tried Doom before I got my first mac
15:23<@Bjarni:#openttd><murray> so.. you just don't enjoy them? <-- what's there to enjoy?
15:24<murray:#openttd>good question, however, they kinda vary in quality
15:24<murray:#openttd>the hl2 experience is imo epic
15:24<jpm:#openttd>Is there any way to change username for forum?
15:25<@Bjarni:#openttd>hl2?
15:25<murray:#openttd>half-life 2
15:25<@Bjarni:#openttd>I think the goal of killing everything that moves is kind of sick
15:26<murray:#openttd>some fps has that as goal, not all
15:26<@Bjarni:#openttd>in fact killing in 1st person perspective is kind of sick
15:26<murray:#openttd>nah, why
15:26<murray:#openttd>better than killing irl
15:26<nckomodo:#openttd>I never finished hl2
15:26<@Bjarni:#openttd>I never started
15:26<murray:#openttd>ALYX DIES
15:26<nckomodo:#openttd>those antlions bugged me to no end
15:26<murray:#openttd>oops
15:26<nckomodo:#openttd>well
15:26<nckomodo:#openttd>the first hl2
15:26<nckomodo:#openttd>but I've played ep1 and ep2
15:27<frosch123:#openttd>jpm: once a year there is a topic in one of the general forums, where you can request nick changes
15:27<nckomodo:#openttd>I skipped ahead to nova prospekt and had the same experience
15:27<frosch123:#openttd>but this year there was already one
15:27<@Bjarni:#openttd><murray> better than killing irl <--- around 20% of all murders are inspired from TV (where the killer copies something from TV)
15:27<@Bjarni:#openttd>nobody knows if the same is true for computer games
15:27<jpm:#openttd>frosch123: okey, I have time...
15:28<nckomodo:#openttd>around 20% of all murders are because people are complete fucking morons/sociopaths
15:28<nckomodo:#openttd>whose parents did a very bad job at raising them
15:28<murray:#openttd>did you know, about 76% of all statistics is grabbed from thin air
15:28<nckomodo:#openttd>and also involve TV
15:28<nckomodo:#openttd>otherwise it would be much higher
15:28<nckomodo:#openttd>and bleh
15:29<@Bjarni:#openttd><murray> did you know, about 76% of all statistics is grabbed from thin air <-- I don't trust that number
15:29<@peter1138:#openttd>About 92.5% of statistics are made up.
15:29<nckomodo:#openttd>more or less throwing the babby out with the bathwater
15:29<@peter1138:#openttd>20% is pretty well made up...
15:29<frosch123:#openttd>80% of all germans dislike forest dieback
15:29<Wolf01:#openttd>bah, you always finish to talk about real life...
15:29<nckomodo:#openttd>40% of me is actually john travolta
15:29<@Bjarni:#openttd>I can't remember the precise number but it was pretty close to 1 out of 5, hence around 20%
15:30<nckomodo:#openttd>"precise"
15:30<@Bjarni:#openttd>somehow I read this as you aren't taking me seriously
15:30<nckomodo:#openttd>""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""' lots of quotes
15:30<murray:#openttd>:D
15:31<+glx:#openttd>almost all statistics miss 1%
15:31<@Bjarni:#openttd>I will kick the next person who claims that I can't be trusted on my statements
15:31*murray:#openttd zips it
15:31<nckomodo:#openttd>I'm going to go kick people in the face in SMOD
15:31<frosch123:#openttd>[21:32] <glx> almost all statistics miss 1% <- that is me :)
15:31<nckomodo:#openttd>That amuses me to no end
15:31<@Bjarni:#openttd>murray: why? :)
15:32<@Bjarni:#openttd>use 7z compression instead
15:33<nckomodo:#openttd>whats also amusing is when I realized turning our old CRT TV on and off would cause a cord laying infront of the screen to swing wildly back and forth
15:33<nckomodo:#openttd>this amused me for 5 minutes
15:33<@Bjarni:#openttd>interesting
15:33<@Bjarni:#openttd>did you turn it on and off by pulling the cord in and out of the outlet?
15:33<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm... i have some old vc4 images, but can't figure out how to mount them in linux...
15:33<ben_goodger:#openttd>fleming rule ftw
15:34<nckomodo:#openttd>Bjarni nah, I used the remote
15:34<@Bjarni:#openttd>then how did you affect the cord?
15:35<@Bjarni:#openttd>you can't tell me that the remote pushed it away in order to reach the TV with it's beam
15:35<ben_goodger:#openttd>Bjarni: a sufficiently powerful magnetic field will exert a sizeable force on a wire with a current flowing through it
15:35<nckomodo:#openttd>turning the TV on and off caused surges of static electricity and
15:35<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd><murray> i AM an evil skull! <- remember the talking skull in monkey island 3?
15:35<nckomodo:#openttd>yeah what he said
15:36<murray:#openttd>fear my wrath! shiver in fear!
15:36<@Bjarni:#openttd>shiver me timber
15:36<@Bjarni:#openttd>oh wait, that was yesterday
15:36<nckomodo:#openttd>well, I dont think it was the surges of static electricity
15:36<murray:#openttd>yeah that was yesterday
15:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i should stop playing these games in german...
15:37<nckomodo:#openttd>but I think it was what had gathered on the TVchanging polarity
15:37<nckomodo:#openttd>or whatever the darned word is
15:37<@Bjarni:#openttd><EddizuHause> i should stop playing these games in german... <-- you should stop using German, but that's another story :P
15:37<nckomodo:#openttd>because you could also wipe it off the screen
15:37<nckomodo:#openttd>and it'd be all fuzzy
15:37<@Bjarni:#openttd>ahh
15:37<@Bjarni:#openttd>you statically charged your screen
15:37<@Bjarni:#openttd>scary
15:37<nckomodo:#openttd>nah, it collects naturally
15:37<nckomodo:#openttd>or, as naturally as it can
15:38<@Bjarni:#openttd>I don't trust such fields to be healthy
15:38<nckomodo:#openttd>I bathe in electro magnetic fields daily
15:38<ben_goodger:#openttd>Bjarni: MRIs are perfectly safe, so the magnetic field produced by a CRT screen is perfectly healthy
15:38<ben_goodger:#openttd>the trouble is the EM radiation they produce
15:39<nckomodo:#openttd>I think I had hypersensitivy to EMfs when I was a kid
15:39<nckomodo:#openttd>or I may have just been highly paranoid
15:39<@Bjarni:#openttd>or both
15:39<nckomodo:#openttd>but I would always get creeped out near the stairs
15:39<nckomodo:#openttd>and occasionally run up them
15:40<nckomodo:#openttd>but anyway, this is distracting me, I've got
15:40<@Bjarni:#openttd> <nckomodo> I think I had hypersensitivy to EMfs when I was a kid <-- if this is true, then I guess it could result in paranoia
15:40<nckomodo:#openttd>well, things to kill
15:40<@Bjarni:#openttd>like time
15:40<nckomodo:#openttd>yes
15:40<nckomodo:#openttd>and rebels near the trainstation
15:41<nckomodo:#openttd>with a boot to the face
15:41<nckomodo:#openttd>ragdoll physics are always entertaining
15:41<ben_goodger:#openttd>only if they clip properly
15:41<nckomodo:#openttd>now I cant for the life of me find my steam folder
15:41<@Bjarni:#openttd>that's because you need to heat it up first to get steam
15:41<nckomodo:#openttd>ah
15:41<@Bjarni:#openttd>what is your core temperature?
15:42<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Bjarni: but german is the most genious language on the planet
15:42<nckomodo:#openttd>I guess I should fetch a blowtorch then
15:42<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it's definitely far superior to that pesky english
15:42<ben_goodger:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: it's "ingenious" :)
15:42<ben_goodger:#openttd>"genius" is separate
15:42<@Bjarni:#openttd>the flames on a driving steam locomotive are 1200°C
15:42<@Bjarni:#openttd>see if you can get your core to that temperature and you can produce steam too
15:42<SpComb:#openttd>which part of them?
15:42<nckomodo:#openttd>I'm so scatter brained
15:43<nckomodo:#openttd>I had to scan my relatively small start menu twice to find the Speedfan subfolder
15:43<nckomodo:#openttd>also core temp is 30c
15:43<@Bjarni:#openttd>that's why you lack steam
15:43<nckomodo:#openttd>or 48c
15:43<ben_goodger:#openttd>I'm pretty sure that you can produce steam from your body at any temperature above 273.15 kelvin at standard pressure
15:43<nckomodo:#openttd>I'm not sure which "Core" is my cpu
15:44<SpComb:#openttd>steam?
15:44<ben_goodger:#openttd>(guess the deliberate mistake in that sentence)
15:44<@Bjarni:#openttd>unplug the CPU and see which one remains on the screen :p
15:44<nckomodo:#openttd>good idea
15:44<nckomodo:#openttd>I can melt my fingers to it in the process
15:44<@peter1138:#openttd>My core temps range from 37 to 44°C, obviously...
15:45<ben_goodger:#openttd>44?
15:45<ben_goodger:#openttd>good god, this man needs medical attention
15:46<@Bjarni:#openttd>I will go at once to his place
15:46<@Bjarni:#openttd>at foot this will take say 1-2 months
15:46<ben_goodger:#openttd>excellent
15:46<@Bjarni:#openttd>1 if I really hurry
15:46<nckomodo:#openttd>no time
15:46<nckomodo:#openttd>here, take this maglev
15:47<@Bjarni:#openttd>I lack tracks
15:47<nckomodo:#openttd>oh hey, stubbs the zombie is :5bux: on steam
15:47<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Bjarni: Come on my maglev!
15:47<Prof_Frink:#openttd>374 tiles without a bend
15:48<@Bjarni:#openttd>bended maglev tracks are really bad
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15:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm... so far i have managed to start the installer, but it stays at 0.00%
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15:59<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Bjarni: Did I say 374? It's now 403.
16:04<Prof_Frink:#openttd>487
16:04<ben_goodger:#openttd>nckomodo: there is a really good reason for that, believe me
16:04<nckomodo:#openttd>probably
16:07<ben_goodger:#openttd>I bought it ages ago. it's neither funny nor fun
16:08<nckomodo:#openttd>I want to play GTA4 and screw around and do hilarious things involving swingsets
16:08<nckomodo:#openttd>but I cant seem to find the disc
16:08<nckomodo:#openttd>disk
16:08<nckomodo:#openttd>whatever
16:08<ben_goodger:#openttd>disc.
16:08<ben_goodger:#openttd>I would just like GTA4 to be available on PC
16:08<Sacro:#openttd>ben_goodger: due soon iir
16:08<Sacro:#openttd>*iirc
16:08<ben_goodger:#openttd>and I just _know_ it will be terribly ported
16:09<Sacro:#openttd>yeah, 2 months
16:09<nckomodo:#openttd>I thought the other games were ported fine
16:09<Wolf01:#openttd>'night
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16:10<ben_goodger:#openttd>if I recall correctly, the first release of SA for PC contained help references to the triangle button
16:10<nckomodo:#openttd>the only thing that bothered me for SA was you couldnt assign multiple controls to a single button based on context
16:12<nckomodo:#openttd>which was fine enough I guess
16:12<nckomodo:#openttd>considering I never did any missions
16:12<nckomodo:#openttd>and spent a considerable amount of time flying the hydra
16:13<ben_goodger:#openttd>ah yes, the hydra
16:13<ben_goodger:#openttd>the plane that explodes if you hit a lamp-post while taxiing at walking pace
16:13<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the virtual cd 4 format is totally weird, there's a .vc4 and a .000 file
16:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and i can mount the .000 file as iso9660, when i strip the first 47 bytes from it
16:14<ben_goodger:#openttd>do those 47 bytes mean anything in ASCII?
16:15<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>not to me...
16:15<ben_goodger:#openttd>very well
16:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>00000000 1f ab 99 00 00 09 3d 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |......=.........|
16:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
16:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>00000020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 2f 00 00 00 |.........../...|
16:16<ccfreak2k:#openttd>Apparently yes.
16:16<ccfreak2k:#openttd>In two places.
16:17<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>0x1fab9900 appears to be something like the file size
16:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>although the file actually is smaller than that
16:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>please insert disk 2...
16:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that actually worked ;)
16:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>gnah... it doesn't have 1680x1050 resolution...
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16:34<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14367 /branches/0.6/src/order_gui.cpp: [0.6] -Fix (r10046): Widgets added (in a documentation update?!) without updating other code caused disabled widget to be drawn in the middle of another player's order list. This fix only applies to 0.6 branch.
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17:20<ln-:#openttd>Bjarni: "Just over two months into the App Store's existence, another impressive mark of success answers that question. When speaking at this week's Mobilize conference, Steve Demeter, the developer behind Trism (iTunes link), revealed that his $5 game for iPhone and iPod touch has generated over $250,000 in revenue."
17:24-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:26<@Bjarni:#openttd>interesting
17:26-!-kaplon [kaplon@kacicka.com] has joined #openttd
17:26<@Bjarni:#openttd>but it shows how cheap stuff sold and distributed correctly can generate a healthy profit
17:26<kaplon:#openttd>hi
17:27<@Bjarni:#openttd>too bad I lack a plan that can generate $125k/month
17:27<ln-:#openttd>just some silly game could do
17:27<@Bjarni:#openttd>looks like it
17:30-!-Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
17:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>hi kaplon
17:30<@Bjarni:#openttd>it's not silly
17:30<@Bjarni:#openttd>it's brilliant
17:30<kaplon:#openttd>whre i find any ottd servers
17:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>online!
17:30<@Bjarni:#openttd>click multiplayer
17:30<kaplon:#openttd>:)
17:33<@Bjarni:#openttd>it's not that hard
17:33<@Bjarni:#openttd>click multiplayer in main menu, change connection dropdown to internet and then hit the "find server" button
17:33<@Bjarni:#openttd>and you will have enough servers to choose from
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17:48<TrueBrain:#openttd>complete bore-dome overcomes
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18:22<ln-:#openttd>Bjarni: does it make sense to visit Cøpenhagen during the so-called winter?
18:26<@Bjarni:#openttd>that depends
18:27<@Bjarni:#openttd>does it make sense to visit Copenhagen at all? :)
18:27<ln-:#openttd>also a valid question.
18:27<@Bjarni:#openttd>the real question is what do you intend to do there?
18:27<ln-:#openttd>be a tourist
18:28<@Bjarni:#openttd>I never thought of Copenhagen as a place to be a tourist
18:28<@Bjarni:#openttd>it's full of tourists though
18:30<ln-:#openttd>the direct Turku-Copenhagen flights still exist.
18:30<@Bjarni:#openttd>I find it hard to answer that question as the idea of being a tourist in a city is far from my way of thinking
18:32<@Bjarni:#openttd>whenever I go to Copenhagen it's usually with a single goal, like a specific shop or visiting relatives/friends
18:32<@Bjarni:#openttd>what is there to do for tourists in a city?
18:33<ln-:#openttd>get drunk, take the wrong bus to suburbs, and get robbed?
18:34<@Bjarni:#openttd>you can do that all year round here
18:34<ln-:#openttd>... which is not MY idea of what to do in a city.
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18:35<@Bjarni:#openttd>A guy I know met a tourist a few years ago
18:35<@Bjarni:#openttd>turned out that he was camping somewhere and he met somebody who invited him to Copenhagen
18:35<@Bjarni:#openttd>for drinking or whatever... nightlife
18:35<@Bjarni:#openttd>and now the next day he really wondered where his tent was
18:36<@Bjarni:#openttd>since he forgot the name of the station/town
18:36<@Bjarni:#openttd>so he was at a station and looked really lost
18:36<@Bjarni:#openttd>eventually he found it (with help)
18:39<@Bjarni:#openttd>ln-: what is YOUR idea of being a city tourist?
18:39<@Bjarni:#openttd>museums?
18:41<ln-:#openttd>sightseeing, IMAX, museums of technology, italian ice cream, beach
18:42<@Bjarni:#openttd>http://visitcopenhagen.com/tourist/what_to_see_and_do/sights_and_attractions
18:43<@Bjarni:#openttd>maybe beach isn't the right thing to do during the winter
18:43<@Bjarni:#openttd>at least not if your goal is to get into the water and/or look at girls in bikinis ;)
18:43<ln-:#openttd>in better place girls without bikinis
18:44<ln-:#openttd>like barcelona
18:44*teggigi:#openttd orders a one-way ticket to barcelona
18:45<@Bjarni:#openttd>we had this case about a guy with a garden next to the beach and he wanted to set up signs to ban nudity on the beach
18:45<@Bjarni:#openttd>then some nudist association complained and the case ended up in court
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18:46<@Bjarni:#openttd>the issue was not nude people by itself but it turned out that some people went to that beach to have sex
18:46<@Bjarni:#openttd>and he didn't want that right next to his garden
18:47<ln-:#openttd>teggigi: they do have the panties though.
18:47<@Bjarni:#openttd>not at the beach I just talked about
18:47<@Bjarni:#openttd>well... at least not according to the news
18:47<teggigi:#openttd>well in norway we can go to the beach like ten times a year
18:47<teggigi:#openttd>max
18:47<@Bjarni:#openttd>I have never actually been there
18:47<ln-:#openttd>Bjarni: no, but nudists are men and 50+ women.
18:48<@Bjarni:#openttd>how should I know
18:48<@Bjarni:#openttd>I always avoid places like that
18:49<@Bjarni:#openttd>ln-: http://www.tekniskmuseum.dk/ <-- I recommend this museum
18:51<ln-:#openttd>looks quite good
18:52<ln-:#openttd>Bjarni: http://www.deutschesmuseum.de/ <-- I recommend this one
18:52<@Bjarni:#openttd>I have no plans going anywhere near that one though :/
18:53<ln-:#openttd>make some plans.
18:53<@Bjarni:#openttd>plans are worthless without cash to fund them
18:53<ln-:#openttd>that's like the biggest museum of technology in at least Europe.
18:53<ln-:#openttd>entrance is cheaper than to your tekniskmuseum.
18:56<@Bjarni:#openttd>not unlikely
18:57<ln-:#openttd>and wtf, a minor girl testing a vibrator and smiling: http://www.tekniskmuseum.dk/archive/AS_125_166_aabning01.jpg .. only in denmark
18:57<@Bjarni:#openttd>it vibrates your FEET
18:57<ben_goodger:#openttd>ln-: you've never visited a japanese website, yes?
18:57<ln-:#openttd>might have
18:58<@Bjarni:#openttd>I have visited plenty of Japanese websites, but nothing like you think about right now
18:58<ln-:#openttd>Bjarni: but like are you saying you can't afford to visit your neighbor country once in a lifetime because of no cash?
18:59<@Bjarni:#openttd>I didn't say that
18:59<@Bjarni:#openttd>I plan on going to Germany
18:59<@Bjarni:#openttd>... eventually
18:59<@Bjarni:#openttd>like in maybe 2-5 years
19:00<ln-:#openttd>why not earlier?
19:01<@Bjarni:#openttd>I have other plans
19:01<@Bjarni:#openttd>I want to finish uni so I can make some money
19:02<ln-:#openttd>you can make some money before finishing it, like i've been doing for many years now.
19:02<@Bjarni:#openttd>with my detailed plan for finishing uni it's not possible
19:03<@Bjarni:#openttd>I will have to delay finishing by 6 months if I work at the same time
19:03<ln-:#openttd>and then you'll have some work experience in your CV.
19:03<@Bjarni:#openttd>which is too expensive as it means 6 months less pay from a full time job
19:04<@Bjarni:#openttd><ln-> and then you'll have some work experience in your CV. <-- I have plenty to write already
19:05<@Bjarni:#openttd>like past jobs
19:05<@Bjarni:#openttd>train driving
19:05<@Bjarni:#openttd>OTTD
19:05<@Bjarni:#openttd>in addition to a rather fine education
19:05<@Bjarni:#openttd>I don't think I will have a problem there
19:06<Sacro:#openttd>name: Bjarni
19:06<ln-:#openttd>did you drive the train for work?
19:06<Sacro:#openttd>occupation: dutch
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19:07<@Bjarni:#openttd><ln-> did you drive the train for work? <-- no, but the needed education and tests are equally hard
19:09<ln-:#openttd>is train driving related to the full time job you are likely to be applying for?
19:10<@Bjarni:#openttd>not really but odds are that it's at least as relevant as any job I can get now
19:10<@Bjarni:#openttd>besides driving includes tasks at the repairshop, which could be relevant
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19:11<@Bjarni:#openttd>besides when writing a CV, you should include everything because the alternative is to do nothing
19:13*Sacro:#openttd might go on OpenBVE
19:13<Sacro:#openttd>driving a class 114 :D
19:13<ln-:#openttd>imho, if you are applying for a real job, possibly with a university degree in your pocket, you can very well leave out all the irrelevant summer jobs from 10 years back.
19:13<Sacro:#openttd><3 the pacer
19:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>ln-: that depends on what you define as "irrelevant summer jobs"
19:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>because it's an indication of what the person in question is like
19:15<@Bjarni:#openttd>being a clerk in a supermarked is likely irrelevant
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19:16<ln-:#openttd>Bjarni: irrelevant as in have nothing to do with the job you are applying for, apart from both being called "job".
19:17<@Bjarni:#openttd>I disagree. With the high number of people who show up late for work and so on, it's a good indication that you can have other jobs
19:18<ln-:#openttd>yes, so one can list the *relevant* job(s).
19:19<ln-:#openttd>except, oh, if one doen't have any relevant work experience.
19:19<@Bjarni:#openttd>that's not an uncommon problem these days
19:21<ln-:#openttd>solution: one should get a job to get some relevant work experience during studies.
19:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>if i apply for a job in the IT segment, it would be perfectly suitible that i mention that i programmed an SPS for a chemical facility for half a year
19:30<@Bjarni:#openttd>I would be more concerned with which chemical factory
19:31<@Bjarni:#openttd>as I would stay far away from it :p
19:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>they produce salt (CaCl_2) to sell it during the winter
19:34<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>CaCO_3 + 2 HCl -> CaCl_2 + H_2O + CO_2
19:35<@Bjarni:#openttd>we are killing the soil around the roads with salt
19:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>nothing new there...
19:36<@Bjarni:#openttd>and it's an open question how much it actually helps
19:36<@Bjarni:#openttd>Sweden and Norway use gravel instead
19:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>spraying salt to make snow melt? open question? i don't think so
19:37<@Bjarni:#openttd>I meant for road safety
19:37<ln-:#openttd>i altered a C++ socket library almost 10 years ago, to make it compilable with newer GCC, and made it available for download.
19:38<ln-:#openttd>it was downloaded from addresses such as gw.xxxxxx.boeing.com.
19:42<@Bjarni:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ykknMP7LcoM <-- this is what salt in a railroad crossing risk doing
19:42<TrueBrain:#openttd>a very closed question ;)
19:44<@Bjarni:#openttd>what I meant by open question regarding road safety is that if you add salt, you get this wet slippery stuff on the roads. Just having snow is slippery too, but in a different way
19:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>and a much more dangerous way ;)
19:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>what's interesting there is that people pass the crossing even though the light is on and the bar is going down
19:45<@Bjarni:#openttd>that's USA for you
19:46<@Bjarni:#openttd>the crossing activates 20 sec before the train arrives and still cars tries to get across until the last moment
19:46<@Bjarni:#openttd>there is an average of 90 minutes between a train hits something in USA
19:47<@Bjarni:#openttd>I think half of the collisions or something like that is fatal
19:47<@Bjarni:#openttd>I read about this a while ago
19:47<@Bjarni:#openttd>railroad safety stuff
19:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>when your car gets hit by a train here, the train on the other track is so kind to bring back your car to the point you started
19:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>and that, you survive
19:48<TrueBrain:#openttd>(happened for real a month ago here .. 400m one way with 1 train, 200m back the other way the an other train)
19:50<@Bjarni:#openttd>http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=g2ynhobRmOQ <-- one car hit by two trains
19:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>so, where does it say that the malfunction was caused by salt?
19:51<@Bjarni:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: I don't think it says that in that link, but I know salt can cause this
19:51<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>(and even if it was, the malfunction was most likely caused by neglecting maintenance work on the salt-affected wires)
19:51<ln-:#openttd>the video gets quite boring after 30 seconds.
19:52<@Bjarni:#openttd>as salt can alter the electrical resistance between the rails and create ghost wheels
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19:53<@Bjarni:#openttd>Europe is altering the crossings to count axles before and after the crossings. This will clearly avoid this issue
19:53<@Bjarni:#openttd>even though I don't think our setup is as likely to suffer from this
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19:54<@Bjarni:#openttd><EddizuHause> (and even if it was, the malfunction was most likely caused by neglecting maintenance work on the salt-affected wires) <-- no matter how well you maintain your crossing, you can't do anything about salt between the rails in the crossing
19:56<ln-:#openttd>you're saying salt is a conductor, with water i suppose?
19:56<ln-:#openttd>yet it would need 1420 millimeters of salty water between the rails?
19:56<@Bjarni:#openttd>if there aren't any water after you add salt, then there is no point in adding salt
19:57<@Bjarni:#openttd>1435 mm
19:57<ln-:#openttd>whatever, 1524 is the real people's choice.
19:58<ln-:#openttd>1520 mm for communists.
19:58<@Bjarni:#openttd>2140 mm was quite interesting
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19:58<@Bjarni:#openttd>UK outlawed it though
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19:59<@Bjarni:#openttd>1524 and 1520 sounds like they are compatible
19:59<ln-:#openttd>they are.
20:00<@Bjarni:#openttd>just like Hong Kong uses 1432 mm for some reason
20:00<@Bjarni:#openttd>I think all their trains uses 1435 mm though
20:00<@Bjarni:#openttd>I never figured out why they use a gauge that's 3 mm smaller than the standard
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20:01<ln-:#openttd>1524 mm is exactly 60 inch.
20:02<@Bjarni:#openttd>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/12/Dual_gauge_Africa_4_rail_3_gauge.svg <-- not deciding on a gauge can cause problems
20:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>well, germany also has a lot of different gauges
20:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but mostly those are isolated narrow gauge systems
20:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>especially trams
20:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>trams benefit from narrow gauge because the wider the gauge the wider the curves has to be
20:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>but wide gauge gives increased stability, which is useful at high speed
20:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>so it's a known tradeoff and it's a damn expensive one to alter
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20:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and then there are at least as many systems of power supply ;)
20:17<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>our tram has 1000mm, and 600V DC, i think
20:17<@Bjarni:#openttd>EU wants to make 25 kV, 50 Hz a standard in all countries
20:17<@Bjarni:#openttd>it's however unsuitable for trams
20:18<@Bjarni:#openttd>for safety reasons
20:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i have my doubts that such an attempt of overregulation will work out...
20:19<@Bjarni:#openttd>NL is attempting to adapt
20:19<@Bjarni:#openttd>but they need to do something anyway since they use 1500 V DC
20:19<@Bjarni:#openttd>which means the freight trains draws 4 kA from the catenary
20:20<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i mean it's not only that a big country like germany would have to change their whole infrastructure
20:20<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>there are also suburban railways that use DC via 3rd rail and stuff
20:21<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>or subways, which are generally unsuited for catenary
20:21<@Bjarni:#openttd>the suburban lines in Copenhagen use 1500 V DC
20:21<@Bjarni:#openttd>they just replaced all the trains
20:22<@Bjarni:#openttd>but decided not to switch to 25 kV even though several people though it should be done because it was a "now or never" situation
20:22<@Bjarni:#openttd>and 25 kV AC is far better
20:23<ln-:#openttd>what's wrong with 25 kV for trams?
20:24<@Bjarni:#openttd>lorries hitting the catenary and such
20:24<@Bjarni:#openttd>the safety distance is actually 1,75 meters for ungrounded stuff
20:25<@Bjarni:#openttd>also in case it falls down, then you are screwed with this voltage on the street
20:25<ln-:#openttd>1500 V is a-ok?
20:26<@Bjarni:#openttd>at least it will not risk frying people up to 5 meters away from the place where it falls down
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20:27<ln-:#openttd>k
20:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>if the security measures are any kind of good, the circuit breaker should kick in before the wire touches the ground
20:28-!-reldred|gone is now known as reldred
20:28<ln-:#openttd>reldred: no away nicks
20:28<@Bjarni:#openttd>are you willing to guarantee that it will work?
20:28<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>no
20:28<@Bjarni:#openttd>and can you proof that it will not kill anybody?
20:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i also think it isn't worth switching power supply just for the sake of switching power supply
20:29<ln-:#openttd>*prove
20:30<@Bjarni:#openttd>I don't think changing the voltage for trams will affect international railroad operations
20:31<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>unless you throw out all existing equipment at the same time, you'd have a very long transition period where you can only buy dual voltage vehicles
20:31<@Bjarni:#openttd>the idea is that say you send a freight train from Denmark to NL then it has to be diesel/have a locomotive that can deal with 1,5,15k and 25k voltage or switch locomotive
20:32<@Bjarni:#openttd><Eddi|zuHause> unless you throw out all existing equipment at the same time, you'd have a very long transition period where you can only buy dual voltage vehicles <-- USA did the latter and it worked out just fine
20:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i don't think freight trains have a real issue there, they have lots of standing time anyway
20:32<@Bjarni:#openttd>that's another issue that needs solving
20:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>USA have a totally underdeveloped electric network anyway
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20:33<@Bjarni:#openttd>Danish TV once put a GPS transmitter in a container, put it on a freight car and sent it to Italy. It ended up having an average speed of 16 km/h
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20:33<@Bjarni:#openttd><Eddi|zuHause> USA have a totally underdeveloped electric network anyway <-- not in the north east. They switched power system in the Pennsylvania area where they actually use electric trains on a rather large scale
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20:35<reldred:#openttd>ln-: Thankyou for your suggestion, it has been taken on board, and promptly dismissed. I'm not changing a standing IRC configuration that I've had for years, for one person in one channel who appears to be backseat moderating. :).
20:36<@Bjarni:#openttd>reldred: will it be any better if I tell you it's channel rules?
20:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>reldred: for the sake of argument, you should have said that in a non-english language :p
20:36<reldred:#openttd>Bjarni: From you it would, you've got the almighty before your name.
20:36<reldred:#openttd>Damnit, silly keyboard
20:36<reldred:#openttd>*almighty @ before your name
20:37<@Bjarni:#openttd>ok, then I say it... it's channel rules
20:37<reldred:#openttd>Gotcha. Later folks.
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20:37<@Bjarni:#openttd>hmm
20:37<@Bjarni:#openttd>where is Sao Tome and Principe?
20:37<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>before the coast of africa
20:37<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>near the equator, i think
20:37<ln-:#openttd>probably some small island(s) that earn money by selling domain names.
20:38<@Bjarni:#openttd>oh those
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20:44<ln-:#openttd>niue (.nu) is basically in sweden.
20:45<@Bjarni:#openttd>Niue (pronounced /niːˈʔuːeɪ/, /ˈnjuːeɪ/ in English) is an island nation located in the South Pacific Ocean. <-- from wikipedia
20:46<@Bjarni:#openttd>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niue
20:46<@Bjarni:#openttd>http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niue <-- or maybe you prefer this one ;)
20:47<murray:#openttd>http://nu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niue
20:48<@Bjarni:#openttd>very funny :)
20:48<@Bjarni:#openttd>I just clicked on a lot of different languages to tell differences
20:49<@Bjarni:#openttd>and noticed some interesting facts
20:49<@Bjarni:#openttd>population is not the same on all pages
20:49<@Bjarni:#openttd>the landsize is 260km²
20:50<@Bjarni:#openttd>yet the number of people for each km² is unknown (with the population known) o_O
20:52<@Bjarni:#openttd>the correct density is 8,29 people/km² (this is the high number of population)
20:52<@Bjarni:#openttd>I think they have room for more people
20:53<ln-:#openttd>except it doesn't say how many km² is habitable.
20:53<@Bjarni:#openttd>good point
20:55<ln-:#openttd>and with an island that is barely 10 km wide, you gotta think where to dump the garbage produced by more people. (well there's a lot of ocean in every direction.)
20:55<@Bjarni:#openttd>the population density for NL (for comparison) is 393/km²
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20:56<ln-:#openttd>no wonder TB and DV get so easily pissed off.
20:57<@Bjarni:#openttd>0.027/km² <-- looks like Greenland can house a whole lot more people
20:57<@Bjarni:#openttd>(or maybe not)
20:58<@Bjarni:#openttd>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density
21:00<@Bjarni:#openttd>Taiwan (Republic of China) <-- isn't that kind of political to write it like that?
21:01<@Bjarni:#openttd>China got it from Japan after WW2 and they declared independent from China after 4 years
21:01<ln-:#openttd>China doesn't recognize their independence.
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21:02<@Bjarni:#openttd>I know
21:02<@Bjarni:#openttd>but China claims to own Nepal and Japan as well
21:03<ln-:#openttd>I doubt that.
21:03<@Bjarni:#openttd>Chinese children are taught in school that Japan is a rebellious Chinese province
21:03<ln-:#openttd>Do you have a reference?
21:03<@Bjarni:#openttd>not offhand
21:03<@Bjarni:#openttd>I read it like a year or two ago
21:05<@Bjarni:#openttd>however Japan has been under their own government in all of the recorded history (which is quite a long time in Asia) except when USA took control right after WW2
21:05<@Bjarni:#openttd>the history is full of attempts of Asian mainland attacking Japan but it never worked out
21:07<ln-:#openttd>like denmark
21:07<@Bjarni:#openttd>the word kamikaze was first used about such an attack. The Mongols sailed towards Japan with their army and kamikaze (godly wind) appeared and sank all the ships
21:07<@Bjarni:#openttd>Japan believed that the typhoon was sent by a god to protect Japan
21:10<ln-:#openttd>I've been reading a book that says China was the most advanced country with sea exploration back in the... 1400's or so.
21:11<@Bjarni:#openttd>that's not unlikely
21:11<ln-:#openttd>had ships that were a lot bigger than e.g. Santa Maria, Nina, and Pinta were, and had a compass.
21:11<@Bjarni:#openttd>they were really advanced compared to the rest of the world for a really long time
21:12<@Bjarni:#openttd>they started drilling for oil 1700 years ago (or something like that). They used it for oil lamps
21:16<ln-:#openttd>i wonder what would have happened if they had found america first
21:20<@Bjarni:#openttd>the same as happened when the Vikings found America
21:20<@Bjarni:#openttd>nothing that matters today
21:22<@Bjarni:#openttd>when the Europeans explored what would later be Canada they found an Indian tribe of white people, who didn't speak the same language as the other tribes in the area and they built houses like Scandinavians used to built them (read: totally different from all other tribes)
21:23<ln-:#openttd>this speculation is from the book mentioned above; what if the chinese had introduced gunpowder to indians before europeans arrived?
21:23<@Bjarni:#openttd>they were extinct by diseases bought by the Europeans before DNA tests were invented though so we can only guess
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21:24<@Bjarni:#openttd><ln-> this speculation is from the book mentioned above; what if the chinese had introduced gunpowder to indians before europeans arrived? <-- that would have been interesting
21:24<@Bjarni:#openttd>or to keep it simple: Chu-ko-nu
21:24<@Bjarni:#openttd>which is a repeating crossbow
21:25<@Bjarni:#openttd>it can fire 10 bolts in 15 sec
21:25<@Bjarni:#openttd>China had that one for 2000 years
21:25<@Bjarni:#openttd>maybe 2500 years
21:25<@Bjarni:#openttd>it's unknown who invented it and when... we only know the era where it showed up
21:27<@Bjarni:#openttd>if the Indians have had that one when they started fighting the Europeans, then the Europeans would have been slaughtered
21:27<@Bjarni:#openttd>maybe it wasn't as powerful as the gun, but with that rate of firing...
21:28<@Bjarni:#openttd>but.... China would have found California while Columbus found the West Indian isles
21:29<@Bjarni:#openttd>it's likely that the Chinese wouldn't have seen much east of the Rocky Mountains before the Europeans arrived
21:31<@Bjarni:#openttd>but it just tells me that when something great is being discovered, it's because it's the natural step from what the world had at that time
21:31<@Bjarni:#openttd>technology had reached a state where ocean travelling was possible
21:31<@Bjarni:#openttd>if Columbus had sunk, then somebody else would have tried
21:34<ln-:#openttd>what if the indians had found europe...
21:35<@Bjarni:#openttd>then they would have been captured on arrival
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21:35<ln-:#openttd>probably
21:35<@Bjarni:#openttd>considering how people in power in the middle age treated their own and enemy people, then they wouldn't have been nice to Indians
21:36<@Bjarni:#openttd>this is why the settlers was attacked by Indians. Indians ended up being treated like people in Europe was treated
21:37<@Bjarni:#openttd>the Indians didn't accept it and took up arms while normal people in Europe couldn't do anything about it
21:39<@Bjarni:#openttd>btw speaking of first encounters. When Livingstone sailed on the Nile, he had problems finding the local population because the boats were spotted and the locals thought "there is a group of slavers"
21:39<@Bjarni:#openttd>"and they have captured a group of white people"
21:40<@Bjarni:#openttd>meaning their hired help (local black people) were presumed to be slavers
21:40<@Bjarni:#openttd>naturally people who saw this kept far away to avoid capture
21:42<ln-:#openttd>slavery... good old times
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21:52<ln-:#openttd>i guess this short period of human rights and democracy will eventually end.
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21:59<@Bjarni:#openttd>it's ending right now
22:00<@Bjarni:#openttd>because the media and judges talks about human rights for people arrested for terrorism rather than what they have done/planned to do
22:01<@Bjarni:#openttd>that's just one example
22:01<@Bjarni:#openttd>but I'm pretty sure this era will be over in say 50 years
22:03<@Bjarni:#openttd>the only way to protect it is actually to make the safety of the state more important than the human rights of whoever threatens the state
22:04<@Bjarni:#openttd>the same goes for safety of the population
22:05<@Bjarni:#openttd>like the poisoned milk case in China. They can charge the people behind it with a death sentence for poisoning food while here we will give them some years of prison if we can prove that they were aware that it would kill people
22:07<@Bjarni:#openttd>anyway time for bed
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22:07<RPGprayer:#openttd>Morning
22:08<ln-:#openttd>not
22:08<RPGprayer:#openttd>4 in the morning here :P
22:08<ln-:#openttd>5 in the night here
22:08<RPGprayer:#openttd>haha
22:11<RPGprayer:#openttd>I've got a question: I haven't really fiddled around anything with applying patches on OTTD and such, but is it possible to use more than one patch and compile? like if i want daylength patch, rentable railway tracks, etc.?
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22:12<ln-:#openttd>it is possible, BUT
22:13<ln-:#openttd>if those patches happen to patch the same areas of same files, then they'll conflict with each other and need to be applied manually (if possible).
22:13<RPGprayer:#openttd>ah, yes
22:14<RPGprayer:#openttd>that's annoying, since i'll basically have something i'd like to use missing :)
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 21 00:00:40 2008