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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-09-27

---Logopened Sat Sep 27 00:00:39 2008
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00:37<ccfreak2k>Opengl patch is still broken. :|
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07:36<hnsz2002>hi! why not available rss feeds on new website?
07:37<TrueBrain>is it does do be
07:38<hnsz2002>i dont see that...
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07:38<TrueBrain>most real browsers show it next to the url
07:38<TrueBrain>else use that link
07:39<hnsz2002>wow.. thank you!
07:39<petererer>That was a bit rapid... an industry disappeared 3 days after the news message :o
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07:42<petererer>Hmm, Celestar's vehicle detail scrollbar is screwed :o
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07:47*Wolf01 is thinking about mouse gestures for ottd
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07:59<Alberth>'advanced settings' re-organized:
08:04<frosch123>"max distance from edge for oil refinieries" -> "economy" tab after "Industries of same type can be..." ?
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08:07<frosch123>"disable electric rails" after "allow building very long bridges" ?
08:07<Alberth>maybe instead move all those build things in economy to construction instead?
08:07<frosch123>IMO "construction" referts to player initiated building, while "economy" is town or industry initiated
08:08<Alberth>elrail moved
08:09<frosch123>"road vehicle queueing" could also be under pathfinder stuff...
08:09<Alberth>ok, moving distance oil refineries too
08:11*frosch123 wonders where to put "vehicles never expire" and "multiple newgrf engine..."
08:11<Alberth>yes, that would be better, I didn't really like its current place
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08:11<frosch123>maybe "never expire" after "disable servicing when breakdowns..."
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08:13<frosch123>"allow more realisically sized catchment..." maybe after "max station spread" ?
08:14<Alberth>'never expire' doesn't really fit in 'servicing' imho
08:14<Alberth>catchement area moving seems like a good idea
08:16<Alberth>new orders are 'non-stop' by default should get a new place now
08:16<frosch123>in the loading stuff?
08:17<Alberth>'vehicles never expire' to the top of vehicles?
08:17<frosch123>"allow roadstops on town owned roads" maybe a bit earlier, e.g. after "adjacent stations" ?
08:18<Alberth>good idea, moving never expire to loading stuff (bottom)
08:18<frosch123>hmm, the "non-stop" thingie fits to the "allow depot orders" stuff
08:18<Eddi|zuHause><petererer> That was a bit rapid... an industry disappeared 3 days after the news message :o <- i'd blame Belugas ;)
08:19*frosch123 has no idea about the "interface" tab
08:22<Alberth>"allow roadstops on town owned roads" one up, after 'nonuniform stations'? ('nonuniform stations' and 'adjacent stations' belong together imho)
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>"allow more realisically sized catchment..." <- i think that is misnamed, it has absolutely nothing to do with realism
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08:23<Gekz>logical perhaps
08:23<Gekz>realistic no
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08:23<Alberth>frosch123: I have lost the 'non-stop' thingie. What option is that exactly?
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>"more diverse" pherhaps?
08:25<Alberth>How does onw change the words of strings? (such that Translator people will catch it too?)
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08:27<Alberth>frosch123: nvm, found it. it's the "new orders are 'non-stop' by default"
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>translated strings are automatically invalidated when the english string changes
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>at least i hope so :p
08:29<Alberth>I'd like to be sure before changing texts
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>hm... there might be too little new things in colonization...
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08:30<Eddi|zuHause>the overall game complexity seems lower than in bts
08:30<Nazcafan>A couple of months ago, someone help me to setup my openttd.cfg so I could use true type fonts
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>beyond the sword
08:30<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: euh, ok
08:30<Nazcafan>but now, I seems that when I ask to use Bitstream Vera Sans, all the text becomes illegible
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>i mean you had all the ressource management, and religions, and corporations, lots of diplomacy options
08:31<frosch123>Alberth: changing texts should be separated
08:31<Nazcafan>Did something change in openttd?
08:32<Alberth>frosch123: in what sense? as a seperate issue, as a seperate .diff file, or something else?
08:33<frosch123>separate diff
08:33<Alberth>(i have 3-5 .diff files anyway for this change)
08:34<Nazcafan>here is the faulty openttd.cfg :
08:34<Nazcafan>if someone con have a peek at it
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08:35<Nazcafan>I use a debian lenny box and the bitstream fonts are indeed installed
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08:38<James_013>hey people
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08:43<Alberth>frosch123: Some people always seem to be in a hurry :)
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08:48<Alberth>Nazcafan: Didn't even know you could do that in OpenTTD, let alone I can tell you how
08:56<frosch123>Nazcafan: have you tried putting the value in " quotes?
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09:01<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I found the number things to manage in original CIV already quite high, and usually it gets worse with newer versions
09:01<Nazcafan>frosch123: I'll try that
09:02<Nazcafan>frosch123: sorry, I was out to throw some garbage
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09:02<Eddi|zuHause>what seems to be cool in colonization is the automatisation of trade
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>and the new way of getting founding fathers is quite interesting
09:03<Nazcafan>frosch123: nope, fonts are still illegible
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>most other things are pretty much the same as in the original
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>the promotion system is taken over from civ4
09:05<Nazcafan>frosch123: the font seems to be recognised, since wen I put a nonexistent font name, I get a warning and openttd sets back to the default font
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09:16<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: 'allow more realistically sized catchment areas' -> 'more diverse catchment areas' ? doesn't sound right to me, to be honest
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, all it does is "do not make all stations have the same catchment area"
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09:19<Eddi|zuHause>oh, yes, the handling that some buildings need tools to finish is a little more graceful now in colonization
09:20<petererer>variable catchment area size
09:21<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: ah, 'diverse' in that sense. I understand your intention now
09:22<Alberth>petererer: 'variable' means 'changing in time' to me, which isn't the case
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>"varying" maybe? is that even a word? ;)
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>i would never ask that question in german... german is flexible enough to make up words on the fly ;)
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09:25<Alberth>what about 'differently sized catchment areas'?
09:28<Alberth>Hmm, I now have 21 HG commits. How does one make 3-5 nice diff files from that mess?
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09:28<+glx>there's a command for that I think
09:29<Alberth>hg --untangle-my-mess-please, isn't it? :P
09:29<+glx>hg help diff
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09:34<Alberth>I have all changes in a seperate branch already (so finding the exact diff against trunk shouldn't be so difficult), but have doxygen updates, var introduction/shuffling, code changes, and real improvements all in that branch. To submit the change to FlySpray, I need to make seperate diffs for each step/kind of change. Can I do that in the same HG repo?
09:35<frosch123>I guess mercurial queues are meant for that
09:36<frosch123>but you would have needed to use them from the start
09:37<frosch123>"enable multiple NEWGrf engine sets" does not fit at all, where it is currently
09:38<frosch123>maybe after "vehicles never expire"
09:41<Alberth>The 'newGRF engine sets' doesn't really fit anywhere imho. I'd rather move the 'vehicles never expire' to just below the 'newGRF engine sets', so the order reviewing block is less polluted.
09:42*Alberth reading about HG queues
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09:48*Alberth mercurial queues look like fun, let's try!
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09:55<Wolf01>oh wtf.. I funded 3 new oil wells, to let all trains to load and make profit and now again they dropped production to 30k... 12 trains stopped again
09:56<Alberth>Wolf01: Not reached the year 2008 yet? :P
09:56<Wolf01>2241 :P
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13:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r14407 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup (r14406): Remove a redundant test. (thanks SmatZ)
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13:25<petererer>Speaking of autoreplace.
13:26<petererer>If it can't happen, due to things like not enough money, it would be helpful if it wasn't actually attempted.
13:29<frosch123>you mean some cost-under-estimating precheck?
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13:40<petererer>Actually just a simple check for the minimum amount as per the patch setting.
13:40<petererer>I had it set to £100,000, with only half that amount in the bank.
13:41<petererer>It still sent RVs to the depot.
13:41<frosch123>that won't work, when you replace a not too old expensive engine with a cheap one, you will gain money, so the money limit does not take effect
13:41<fonso>after the do { ... } loop starting in viewport.cpp:1138 psd doesn't point to ps anymore. Is that on purpose? This means we are bubbling a different sprite than we compare in the next for() iteration, doesn't it?
13:42<frosch123>or are you talking about fs#1762 again?
13:46<fonso>My idea to solving FS#119 would be changing the sorting algorithm so that we can always partition the vector into a sorted and an unsorted part and then presorting the whole thing by type of sprite, so that foundations end up in the front to begin with.
13:46<fonso>After that they are only moved when there is a specific reason to do so.
13:47<fonso>Ah well, difficult to explain ...
13:47<frosch123>fonso: that is already the case, ViewportAddLandscape() is called before ViewportAddVehicles()
13:49<fonso>But bubble sort can mix them up too easily.
13:49<frosch123>it is not bubble sort
13:49<frosch123>bubble sort is an algorithm for transitive orders
13:49<fonso>It says it is in line 1136 and it looks like it is
13:50<fonso>you compare a sprite to all following ones and then subsequently exchange them until it arrives at the correct postion.
13:50<frosch123>1336 btw
13:50<frosch123>and I somehow forgot to remove this misleading comment
13:51<fonso>so what is it supposed to be?
13:52<frosch123>it moves ps2 in front of ps1
13:52<fonso>A different algorithm might be able to sort them by "hard" criterions seen in the if-clauses before but at the same time not move unrelated sprites around
13:52<frosch123>it does not move unrelated sprites around
13:52<fonso>Thus keeping more of the original order intact for soft criteria
13:53<fonso>It looks like it does in the do { ...} loop
13:53<fonso>especially with psd3 not pointing to ps
13:54<fonso>(and I'm wondering why that works at all)
13:54<frosch123>the do loop moves all sprites starting from ps to ps2 one position further to create space to insert ps2 in front of ps
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13:56<fonso>and after that psd points to the sprite at *(ps + 1)
13:56<frosch123>no psd is unchanged
13:57<frosch123>in fact it points at ps2
13:58<frosch123>you can consider psd as the separator between sprites in their final order and sprites which are still being sorted
13:58<fonso>ah, OK
13:58<fonso>now I see it
13:58<fonso>sorry for my ignorance
13:58<frosch123>blame the comment :)
13:59<fonso>so it tends to sort things to the front of the array
13:59<fonso>is the array drawn from the front to the back or the other way round?
14:00<frosch123>hehe, "front" and "back" are kind of ambiguous here :)
14:00<frosch123>but the sprite at index 0 is drawn first
14:01<fonso>orudge: have you tried to sort everything in the other direction? I suspect the sprites at low indices are more mixed up wrt the original order than sprites at high indices.
14:01<fonso>But I have to leave now, sorry.
14:04<petererer>Well, have you orudge?
14:07<frosch123>fonso: fyi: the fence at the runway causes to plane to be inserted where it ends up
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14:49<dih>anybody here familiar with tcl by any chance?
14:50<TrueBrain>dih: I doubt anyone wants to publicly say yes to that ;)
14:50<dih>they can pm me :-P
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15:03<petererer>" could not be found" :o
15:03<dih>i know
15:03<dih>have a dns issue right now
15:03<dih>what can i do you for?
15:04<petererer>I wanted to have a play with autopilot.
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15:05*petererer gets pissed off with audio software that keeps crashing.
15:05<dih>autopilot is not at
15:05<dih>autopilot or ap+ ?
15:05<dih>petererer, ^
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15:08<dih>that's odd
15:08<dih>oh - no it's not
15:09<dih>ap + is at
15:09<dih>and autopilot is at
15:11<dih>ap+ documentation is at
15:12<petererer>Gah, DJPlay sucks.
15:13<petererer>Choosing tracks to play seems to be directory-structure only.
15:13<petererer>There's no previewing...
15:13<petererer>Just 5 audio outputs that need mixing.
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15:42<Eddi|zuHause>this is bad... these other guys declared war, and now i overran them with my 5 guy army... and now i have twice the amount of colonies to get to 50%, and i have to defend twice the amount of colonies also...
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15:57<TrueBrain>the latest stargate atlantis is VRY good ... :) :)
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>right... i knew i forgot something :p
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>it's the "half" final, right?
15:57<TrueBrain>yeah, wanted to remind you
15:57<TrueBrain>I didn't hear you about it so ..
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15:58<TrueBrain>half final?
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15:59<Eddi|zuHause>they used to have a break in the middle of the season, i.e. after 10 episodes
15:59<TrueBrain>just read that it is cancelled .. but not till January, pfew :)
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>well, yes, they won't order a new season, but this season still continues...
16:00<TrueBrain>You scared me there :p
16:00<TrueBrain>this is a cliffhanger episode, but in 2 weeks the next one is..
16:01<TrueBrain>(wow, bad english)
16:01<petererer>ARGH, FUCKING JACK
16:01<TrueBrain>@seen jac
16:02<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: I have not seen jac.
16:02<TrueBrain>@seen jack
16:02<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: jack was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 4 hours, 34 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <jack> they go to depot, when they need
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16:03<TrueBrain>haha, that was kind of unexpected :)
16:03<frosch123>fucking -> depot
16:03<frosch123>obvious :)
16:05<TrueBrain>I never understood jackd
16:05<TrueBrain>never ever ...
16:13<@peter1138>Well, I do ;)
16:13<@peter1138>Just it has a habit of kick clients out randomly.
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>btw they also said that they were going to continue SGA the as DVD movies like they did with SG-1
16:22<fjb>Why do 4500 people want to visit a 350 people town?
16:24<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I read :) Too bad the movie is the end of the season final ...
16:24<TrueBrain>fjb: because they are looking for houses
16:24<fjb>Ah, good cause.
16:24<fjb>That explains it perfectly.
16:26<Ammler>fjb: many tourists village are like that
16:27<fjb>But there isn't even a hotel...
16:27<frosch123>fjb: canibals :)
16:29<fjb>The hidden indistry of PBI.
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16:37*petererer grumbles at industries closing down when they're being serviced.
16:37<fjb>Georges ECS?
16:38<fjb>Didn't happen to me with PBI, but often with ECS.
16:49-!-Yeggstry is now known as Yeggs-coding
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>so... where do i get a big enough army to protect 13 colonies from the home country?
16:52<frosch123>is "independance" still the only winning goal? and can it be disabled?
16:54<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: cheat some tanks
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>i think there were three options at winning goal
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you could disable them, like in civ4
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: great idea, why did i not think of that?
16:56<Ammler>fjb: that is strange, indeed.
16:57<fjb>I bet the town council hired that people to get a railway station.
16:58<Ammler>you should keep that for celestart/peter
16:58<Ammler>I consider that as bug.
17:01<fjb>Maybe they only piled up because only to busses are serving that town.
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17:08<Eddi|zuHause>damn... i capture a few colonies, transport the raw materials to my central town, and suddenly the industrial production goes off the charts... my galleon can hardly handle the cargo now...
17:09<fjb>Now that town has 4 busses circling there and a railway station. Almost more vehicles tham houses...
17:09<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: What are you playing?
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>or rather "Civilization IV: Colonization"
17:10<Ammler>colonization was also nice
17:10<fjb>Is that a Civ IV addon?
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's standalone, using the Civ IV engine
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>hm... "Merlin 2008"... is that worth watching?
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17:13<Ammler>how was the KITT btw
17:13<Ammler>was it that cool as the original?
17:13<@Rubidium>fancier than the original
17:13*Rubidium would like the 3000 model, not the 2000 model
17:13<petererer>Gah, there it goes again :o
17:14<Ammler>I just read you talked about, but couldn't read it...
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not quite sure how i find knight rider yet... the story line seemed a bit overloaded
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17:27<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: we will see with the second episode :)
17:27<TrueBrain>oeh, there is a new Merlin
17:32<Ammler>nice titles <oldserie> <year>
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's been going like this for years already
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17:41<Ammler>Battlestar Galactica was first, or was there another?
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17:46<Eddi|zuHause2>wtf was that...
17:46<Eddi|zuHause2>my computer is inventing more and more different ways to crash without any apparent reason
17:48<FauxFaux>It wants you to replace it with something expensive.
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17:51<ln>Eddi|zuHause2: get a mac
17:51<Eddi|zuHause2>doesn't save me from mysterious hardware failures
17:52<ln>no, but it's Crash Different
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18:10<ln>nw: prison break 4x02
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18:16<@SmatZ>my car 'died' today ... I had to be towed... I hope it won't cost much to fix it :(
18:18<Eddi|zuHause2>you get a problem when the cost for towing alone surpasses the worth of the car ;)
18:18<@SmatZ>hehe :)
18:18<@SmatZ>my father towed me
18:18<Nite_Owl>did it make a dead car noise or just go quietly
18:19<@SmatZ>but the black smoke going out of the exhaust doesn't sign anything good
18:19<@SmatZ>rather quietly
18:19<@SmatZ>it's a diesel... I though the 'turbo' died but it was doing smoke even at 1k rpm...
18:19<@SmatZ>after a while
18:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14408 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r9205): generation seed set using -G was always overwritten by -g
18:21<Nite_Owl>Quietly can be better. At least you know nothing broke loose inside the engine.
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18:24<@SmatZ>good night all
18:25<Nite_Owl>Although the last time my car died it went quietly and the alternator burned out taking all of the major engine wiring with it. Cost a fortune to fix due to the sideways mounting of the engine. - L8r SmatZ.
18:30<dih>@seen Brianetta
18:30<@DorpsGek>dih: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 23 hours, 10 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Brianetta> Since it doesn't exist yet, the performance of its stereo is... wanting.
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18:59<Ammler>he, that was fast: <-- any chance for a exception to console commands?
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19:06<ccfreak2k>Sounds like a good patch to me.
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 28 00:00:18 2008