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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-10-02

---Logopened Thu Oct 02 00:00:50 2008
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01:06<ccfreak2k>The speed scaling for aircraft is interesting.
01:06<ccfreak2k>Apparently the "Dinger 1000" taxies at 125MPH.
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02:24<planetmaker>Rubidium: you might consider to change this var name in order to fit r14421:
02:37<@peter1138>Most important patch ever!
02:39<planetmaker>indeed :P
02:40<planetmaker>I just found a wrong doc comment due to the same change...
02:42<planetmaker>one could also consider to adopt a few strings in english.txt where also rather company than player is meant.
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03:19<dih>Thank you Rubidium (@r14431)
03:24<@peter1138>Wasn't that backported to 0.6.3?
03:25<dih>no it was not - i checked
03:28<dih>thankfully i'd say ;-)
03:28<@peter1138>I think it was, but "name", etc, are not aliases.
03:28<@peter1138>(In 0.6.3)
03:30<@peter1138>rcon_password fool
03:30<@peter1138>dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer
03:30<@peter1138>'rcon_pw' changed to: foo
03:30<@peter1138>18:03 <@peter1138> Rubidium, lots of changes without an RC? :o
03:31<@peter1138>18:04 <@Rubidium> peter1138: what's lots of changes?
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03:32<@peter1138>I shall now go into hiding :p
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03:38<sulai>0.6.3 is out... as a translator, I'm a littly unhappy that there have been changes to the language file just before the release. There was no chance for us to update the translation for the release =(
03:40<@peter1138>Well there is a solution.
03:41<@peter1138>We can just not do releases :)
03:42<@peter1138>sulai, so did a lot change from 0.6.2 ?
03:43<sulai>there have been many changes to the german language file since 0.6.2 (several hundred) ;)
03:44<@peter1138>Some has been backported.
03:44<sulai>most of them are in there except these last changes
03:45<sulai>the changes are pending in webtranslator2...
03:45<sulai>peter1138: We can just not do releases :) <- would be nice if there are only releases if there was no language file change for a week or so
03:45<@peter1138>Those changes don't apply to 0.6.3
03:46<@peter1138>"player" was renamed to "company" in trunk, but not in 0.6.x
03:47<@peter1138>So in English it still refers to players.
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03:47<sulai>release is r14430, language file change is r14423
03:48<@peter1138>Welcome to *branches*
03:49<sulai>oh, cool thing =)
03:49<sulai>sorry for bothering you...
03:51<sulai>I'm just curious about branches: If one does a commit to the trunk, these changes are automatically applied to all its branches?
03:52<sulai>Isn't it some hard work to merge branches by hand later on?
03:58<FauxFaux>It can be easy if there are no conflicts. ¬_¬
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04:08<ccfreak2k>"trunk" is like the trunk of a tree.
04:08<ccfreak2k>Well the whole thing's a tree.
04:08<ccfreak2k>Think of it that way.
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04:15<@peter1138>It can be, however, release branches (0.5 and 0.6, for example) are not ever merged back with trunk.
04:15<@peter1138>That would defeat the point of having them :)
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04:17<@peter1138>Haha, our first BayTSP email.
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04:52<Smoky555>hi all :)
04:53<Smoky555>can i download somewhere nightly build of NoAI brunch?
04:55<Smoky555>thanks Peter :))
04:57<sulai>Smoky555: Bon appétit!
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05:15<Ammler>Would be one of the TT-Forums Mods be so nice and move to OpenTTD Graphics
05:15<Ammler>I accidentially posted in the General Forum
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05:58<TrueBrain>Don't eat yellow snow.
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06:01<@peter1138>Well said.
06:02<@peter1138>Idbg: [sprite] Tried to load recolour sprite #723 as a real sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference
06:02<@peter1138>Okay... a little more work is needed to make dedicated servers run without graphics :p
06:04<TrueBrain>the main question I always had around that ... how much does OpenTTD need to know the dimensions of the graphics?
06:04<@peter1138>It doesn't any more.
06:05<@peter1138>They are no longer used for collision detection.
06:05<TrueBrain>that is good
06:05<@peter1138>Well, not used, but affect.
06:05<TrueBrain>as I said, I once made apatch to remove the need for grfs .. by loading all grfs as a black grf with dimension 10x10 .. :p
06:06<TrueBrain>but back then, it seemed to cause desyncs :p
06:06<@peter1138>There are sprites that are needed for map generation.
06:06<@peter1138>But you know about those :)
06:06<TrueBrain>well, old map generation :p
06:06<TrueBrain>who uses that ;)
06:06<@peter1138>I do.
06:06<TrueBrain>WARNING: you can't generate old-style maps without original grfs.
06:07<TrueBrain>fixed that nicely ;)
06:07<@peter1138>I wonder if anyone ever made a NewGRF to replace those sprites...
06:07<@peter1138>To affect map generation, clearly.
06:08<TrueBrain>there are grfs that replace the map images to produce other generatedmaps, yes
06:08<TrueBrain>most of them makes it even more ugly :p
06:08<@peter1138>Hmm, I've never seen one.
06:09<TrueBrain>the old map generation makes such squary maps .. :p
06:09<TrueBrain>oh well, back to Saint Row 2 .. that game rules :)
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06:41<@peter1138>Hmm, what's the special incantation to get lighttpd to proxy hg serve? :o
06:45<Rexxars>lighttpd --do-what-i-want-you-to-do
06:46<@peter1138>I set it up to proxy but it stalls when serving.
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06:48<@peter1138>Hmm, seems OpenTTD's config rewrites the files that stall...
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07:37<fjb>I hate PBI. 87% vtranported, station rating is 77%, always a train wainting there and the production of the coalmine always goes down. :-(
07:39<Ammler>fjb: maybe the coal has to wait too long.
07:39<fjb>Till the train leaves?
07:41<fjb>I'm also having a statue there.
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07:57<Tim>We don't love YAPP anymore? :D
07:59*fjb still loves YAPP.
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07:59*fjb is addicted to YAPP.
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08:16*FauxFaux doesn't like some of the issues with yapp that it's not even plausibly easy to fix. =p
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08:19<Ammler>(or do they also commit something, they don't like? ;-)
08:19<fjb>Which issues does YAPP have?
08:20<FauxFaux>Presignals race, presignals pathfinding past stations and the 90 deg thing at depots are the only ones I can think of atm. ¬_¬
08:20<Ammler>and those are releated to YAPP?
08:21<fjb>What is the relation of presignals to YAPP?
08:21<FauxFaux>I'm pretty sure the first two are.
08:21*FauxFaux couldn't exactly find the code that was to blame, let alone fix it, though. ¬_¬
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08:39<@petern>What do you mean by "presignals pathfinding past stations"?
08:39<@petern>Or rather, why do you think they shouldn't?
08:40<@petern>(Or is that they don't?)
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08:44*petern investigates linux-vserver
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09:27<@petern>Hmm, it likes to use real IPs :o
09:28<@Celestar>what does?
09:28<@petern>Ah, there's a dummy network device I can use.
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09:34<@Celestar>where are our Hungarians here?
09:35<@Celestar>!seen mihamix
09:35<+glx>not in Hungary
09:35<+glx>and the command uses @
09:35<@Celestar>@seen mihamix
09:35<@DorpsGek>Celestar: mihamix was last seen in #openttd 37 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 14 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <MiHaMiX> s/t$/d/
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09:44<@petern>Hmm, and then when using private addresses, NAT gets messy :(
09:47<SpComb>linux-vsever networking is kind of weird
09:47<SpComb>as they all share some interface
09:47<@Celestar>I dunno vserver ;)
09:47<@Celestar>using Xen here :P
09:48*SpComb used vserver in a Xen domU
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09:57<fjb>Xen makes my server crawl. The networking gets unbearable slow.
09:58<@Celestar>stupid AMD drivers
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10:01<Celestar>awesome. the driver works, there are no errors, but I get a black screen :S
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10:04<@petern>Well, this server does not have CPUs that support virtualization.
10:05<Celestar>the AMD driver manages to turn off the screen :o
10:05<@petern>AMD driver?
10:06<Celestar>yeah for the video card
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10:07<fjb>X on a server?
10:10<fjb>What else do you need the AMD driver for the vidoe card for?
10:10<Celestar>it'S a video card driver ...
10:10<@petern>Who said it was a server?
10:10<+glx>fjb: it used to be an ATI driver
10:11<fjb>Still what do you use it for when not for running X?
10:11<Celestar>who sais I'm not running X?
10:12<fjb>That is why I asked: "X on a server?"
10:12<Celestar>it's a notebook :P
10:12<@petern>Ah right. I guess the correct answer would be "no" then.
10:13<fjb>I didn't associate Xen with a notebook.
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10:16<@petern>Sounds like you're mixing up two conversations.
10:16<Celestar>peter's server and my notebook (=
10:16<Celestar>peter != Celestar. also *peter != *Celestar.
10:17<fjb>[15:47:56] <Celestar> using Xen here :P
10:17<Celestar>fjb: yeah, but not on the laptop. on the server .
10:18<fjb>Your next sentence was about AMD drivers.
10:19<@petern>And was a different subject :)
10:19<fjb>That was not very clear.
10:19<Celestar>AMD drivers suck.
10:19<@petern>Hmm, with vserver I keep seeing errors about ps :(
10:20<@petern>(I guess I just shouldn't run ps, heh)
10:20<fjb>Much better.
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10:31<@petern>So there are special commands to run to show processes inside vservers.
10:35<fjb>What is vserver? Something like BSD jails?
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10:40<@petern>Sounds like it.
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10:51<planetmaker>Is there a way to truncate a string to a certain button width?
10:52<planetmaker>Or is there no cure for strings exceeding buttons when resizing windows?
10:55<jpm_>planetmaker: Thanks for updating shared infrastrucrure.
10:55<@Belugas>planetmaker: yes to the first question, yes to the second (or at least in the current state)
10:55<planetmaker>Belugas: can you give me a hint how, please?
10:55<@Belugas>more generally, it's a troublesome stuff
10:55<planetmaker>jpm: my pleasure :)
10:56<@Belugas>there is a function to truncate strings before drawing, clipping it to given dimensions
10:56<planetmaker>sounds cool :)
10:56<@Belugas>but it will not make the "component" grow
10:56<planetmaker>how do you mean "make component grow"?
10:57<planetmaker>resizing the button? No, that's not my intention, rather crippled strings :)
10:57<@Belugas>so for let say german long strings, you'll have stuff no one will understand
10:57<@Belugas>same for french, that is...
10:57<@Belugas>and i just can hear users complaining about that...
10:57<planetmaker>I just updated the newgrf gui window - and when decreasing the size, text overflows
10:58<planetmaker>especially to the left, leaving text on the screen, out of the window.
10:58<planetmaker>Ok, I take your advice: keep it overflowing :P
10:58<@Belugas>not a simple one, and IIRC, Rubidium filled a bug report on it
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10:59<jpm_>planetmaker: When we last time tested it there was a odd bug: other players trains sundenly appeared into one of first players depot swicth was not even connected with others tracks...
10:59<@Belugas>planetmaker, idea is simple: better make it overflow and still understand, then truncate and wonder ;)
11:00<planetmaker>he, yeah, :) Ok, then I'll stop worrying about that. And you have definitely a point there, Belugas.
11:00<planetmaker>jpm_: can you provide a savegame where I could reproduce that?
11:01<planetmaker>preferably with the new version :)
11:01<planetmaker>which still is hacky a lot
11:02<jpm_>planetmaker: yes, we will test new version during weekend and if bug is still there I will let you know..
11:02<planetmaker>thanks :)
11:02<planetmaker>But I guess a thorough re-write of it is necessary at some stage anyway... :S
11:04<@Belugas>planetmaker,it has to be fixed one day, jsut that how to fix it in a clean way is a bit of a troublesome one. It might involve resizing the parent window to fit the newly expanded component, but since some strings are dynamic, ti would imply windows that keep on resizing. And might eventually be way too big to fit screen
11:05<jpm_>planetmaker: We have discussed about some ideas to improve patch but I haven't had time to write them to forum...
11:05<planetmaker>Belugas: yeah - especially in this newgrf gui case - which then might not fit on small devices anymore - but will, if allowed to overflow
11:05<planetmaker>jpm_: feel free to add it there anytime :)
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11:05<planetmaker>It has also the advantage that I cannot forget :P
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11:12<jpm_>Actually, they are not just ideas but totally new consept for sharing and other stuff...
11:13<planetmaker>well... ?
11:13<jpm_>So I would need a lot time to write it to forum...
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11:14<jpm_>but I will do it sometime.
11:14<planetmaker>jpm_: same here. So forum is better to be remembered - and putting it down well structured :)
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12:21<yorick>mmm, I have a problem reading the gamelog chunk from saves... first the contains a char[15], uint32, uint16(saveload version), and uint8 modify information.
12:23<yorick>47 4C 4F 47 00 00 00 34 00 00 00 01 72 31 34 34 30 35 4D 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 07 00 38 45 00 66 02 00 01 00 04 01 05 47 4D 35 84 80 7C 9B 1D FD A8 A9 10 A2 B4 82 95 68 1F FF FF <-- this is the GLOG chunk
12:25<yorick>chunkid is 47 4C 4F 47, which reads as GLOG, then comes 00, which is named "m", together with 00 00 34, it forms size 13312
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12:30<yorick>next byte is 00, which forms at, then comes 00 00, which forms "tick", 01 is ct, marking game revision, next 15 bytes are revision string, then newgrf_version, (07 00 38 45) 1161297927, 00 66 should be sl_version, so I expect it to be 102, but instead it is 26773 :S
12:31<yorick>02 is the modify information, makes more sense
12:36<Yexo>yorick: 00 66 == 102 in either big endian or little endian, not sure which one
12:38<yorick>big endian
12:42<@petern>((uint32)_sl_version << 8 | _sl_minor_version)
12:43<yorick>yes, that.
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12:43<@petern>Then 00 is minor
12:43<@petern>and 66 is major
12:43<yorick>no, not that
12:44<yorick>00 66 is 102 in big endian...
12:44<yorick>and the size makes a whole lot more sense all of a sudden
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12:57<dih>yorick, doing any good work?
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13:15<yorick>dih: if you can call savegame parsing any good work...
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13:38<extspotter>hi everyone
13:39<extspotter>I have just finished my BA 732 and want to know which program I need to compile the |GRF
13:40<extspotter>thanks yorick
13:41-!-welshdragon2 [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
13:41<yorick>are openttd saves always big-endian on little-endian systems?
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13:47<@petern>They're saved byte-by-byte.
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13:47<@petern>Well... formatted that way, heh...
13:51<+glx>unless it's a 'real' uint16
13:51<+glx>but still it's saved/read byte-by-byte
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13:57<welshdragon>Brianetta, that was a nice reply to the server restart request on standad
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13:59<yorick>the VEHS chunk is not a RIFF?
13:59-!-welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
13:59<Brianetta>welshdragon: Server restarts are not, in my opinion, a good reason to page the admins.
13:59<Brianetta>The admins do check periodically whether the game is getting old.
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14:07<Brianetta>rock lobster
14:08<@petern>Is that a dish?
14:20<Brianetta>Makefile:152: Makefile.bundle: No such file or directory
14:20<lobster>ROCK LOBSTER
14:24<yorick>Brianetta: does it say anythin else
14:24<yorick>it is more like a lobster dish, I guess
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14:40<fjb>Hm, PBI and hose carriages don't mix that well. And passengers don't give enough money...
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14:42<Eddi|zuHause>hose carriages? they carry hoses?
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>are they firefighters?
14:43<fjb>Firefighters carry horses?
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>"hose" ~ "Schlauch"
14:44<yorick>no, hoses carry firefighters.
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14:48<@petern>hoses made from horses?
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14:51<Eddi|zuHause>he's not french ;)
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>waah... savegame compatibility is a bitch...
14:52<@Belugas>what do you mean? he's not subtil?
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, something like that :p
14:53<yorick>Eddi: hehe
14:53<yorick>I'm experiencing that problem right now
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15:06<Eddi|zuHause>wääh... i give up
15:06<yorick>what's the problem?
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>celestar has done some "clean this savegame mess up" commits
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15:07<+glx>good luck :)
15:08<@petern>Hmm, Beeching on BBC4
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't have that, obviously ;)
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15:10<Eddi|zuHause>the saveload stuff should be done with less magic numbers
15:11<yorick>it doesn't have _that_ much
15:11<yorick>but some less magic wouldn't hurt
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's too much magic if you mix different patches which change saveload version
15:12*yorick just decoded map array magic and implemented it in python
15:12<planetmaker>21:10 Eddi|zuHause: [20:50:20] waah... savegame compatibility is a bitch... <-- for me it works to introduce a patch version which is far bigger than current trunk
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>i definitely don't envy you, yorick :p
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>at least i know it fails in chunk ECMY
15:14<planetmaker>and I defined a var such as SAVEGAME_VERSION which gives me the patch version - saves me modifying the files again and again when the trunk savegame version bumps
15:15-!-Pikita [~sam@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>it works ;)
15:18<yorick>hack percentage: 90%!
15:18-!-KritiK [] has joined #openttd
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>but it sets the newgrf palette incorrectly...
15:19<yorick>hack percentage: 93%!
15:21*yorick ponders skipping the PATS chunk
15:21<Ammler>who do I need to blame for that?
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15:22<Ammler>opensuse means, I have newer version installed
15:22<@petern>Ammler, not us :D
15:22<@petern>That sentence was very wrong.
15:23<@petern>"means, I have" -> "says I have a"
15:24<Ammler>ah, ok, thanks
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>blame packman, not suse
15:25<@petern>Or whoever packaged it...
15:25<planetmaker>that packman uses my nick's short for his :S
15:26<planetmaker>btw, petern, where did your numbers go? :)
15:26<planetmaker>1 1 3 8 :)
15:26<@petern>I meant before that.
15:26<planetmaker>in the filename:
15:27<+Prof_Frink>planetmaker: Let n=1138...
15:27<planetmaker>lol :)
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i want to start a new game, bt i miss some requirements
15:27<@petern>"short for his" -> "short form for itself"
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>a) a german town name generator for >3000 names
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>b) shunting
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15:28<@petern>(Clearly this is correction night :D)
15:28<@petern>Prof_Frink! Throw a brick at the telly!
15:28<@petern>Dr Beeching :o
15:28<planetmaker>err... petern: why itself? He certainly has a gender different than neuter...
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>packman is not one single person
15:29<@petern>It is software, it has no gender.
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>it's a project
15:29<planetmaker>ah... ok :)
15:29<planetmaker>thanks for enlightenment.
15:30<@petern>It's railway night on BBC4, apparently.
15:30<@petern>Abandonned railways now...
15:30<Brianetta>Why doen't make install work?
15:31<@petern>How far does it get?
15:31-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:31<Brianetta>make[1]: Entering directory `/home/brian/openttd-0.6/objs/release'
15:31<Brianetta>[SRC] No such source-file: install.[c|cpp|mm|rc]
15:31<Sacro>oh dear :\
15:31<Brianetta>Sacro: That game you lost in screen was in screen
15:31<Brianetta>just in another window
15:32<Brianetta>I found the game that got quit by rcon
15:32<+Prof_Frink>< Brianetta> Sacro: That game you lost
15:32<@petern>Sacro lost the game :D
15:33<Brianetta>He lost it, as in, down the sofa
15:33<Aali>damn you all
15:33<Aali>i just lost the game :(
15:33<+Prof_Frink>Aali: Nah, it's OK
15:33<Sacro>I accidentally the game
15:33<+Prof_Frink>Sacro is a game-loss lightning conductor.
15:33<Brianetta>so anyway
15:33<Brianetta>make install
15:34<+Prof_Frink>make install-please
15:34<Brianetta>in fact, there doesn't appear to be an install: target in the Makefile
15:34<@petern>make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/petern/ottd/svn/0.6.3/objs/release'
15:34<@petern>[BUNDLE] Constructing bundle
15:34<@petern>[INSTALL] Installing OpenTTD
15:34<@petern>install: cannot create directory `///usr/local/share/pixmaps': Permission denied
15:35<Brianetta>petern: Which command did you use?
15:35<@petern>install: is in makefile.bundle
15:35<@petern>Just make install
15:37<@petern>I should try sudo :)
15:38<Aali>Brianetta: have you tried to re-./configure?
15:39<@petern>Hmm, works fine with sudo :o
15:39<Brianetta>Aali: Yes.
15:40<planetmaker> <--- Your comment on this implementation / update of the newgrf gui window would be very much appreciated, petern :)
15:40*petern wonders where it installed too...
15:40<planetmaker>nvm - on thing after the oter :)
15:40<@petern>Hmm, bundle/
15:41<@petern>Brianetta, what version of make do you have?
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15:44<@Belugas>question: anyone is fluent in spanish enough to translate a text for me?
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>we won't ever know that unless you show the text ;)
15:48<Brianetta>GNU Make 3.81
15:48<@Belugas>and now? ---->
15:49<@petern>Same as mine :o
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>"llamada" sounds like "is called" to me
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>"this function is called when the component MainMenuXP is modified"
15:51<yorick>google translate: "/ / This function is called when the component is modified MainMenuXP "
15:52<yorick>"This function is called when the component MainMenuXp is modified
15:52<yorick>"/ / (Add or remove items), traveling all items by changing the event OnDrawItem "
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>i forgot what "hacer" meant
15:54<yorick>try "hack"
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>(i assume that hacia is a derived form of hacer)
15:54<yorick>"Function to my own" is what google translate makes it
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>hacer is some of those allround words ;)
15:56<lobster>is #openttd interested in Lobster's Black Metal Picks Show @
15:56*lobster guesses not
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>like "do" in english
15:56<Chrill>donez, Brianetta, will send it to you
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>it could mean almost anything
15:56<@petern>lobster, yes
15:56<Brianetta>Chrill: ight
15:57<yorick>to do or to make
15:57<murray>to make cake
15:58<Aali>lobster: is that a webradio?
15:58<lobster>petern, Aali: yes
15:58<lobster>i'll dig up the URL for you
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: look at that link, there are at least 30 different meanings there ;)
15:59*Brianetta prods Chrill in de Ville
15:59<welshdragon> live.ogg or live.mp3
15:59<yorick>Eddi: and almost all could be replaced by "to do" or "to make"
15:59<welshdragon>lobster was 50% correct
15:59<@Belugas>thanks for translations :)
16:00<Chrill>Brianetta, check TT-forums inbox
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>Chrill: nothing, just a play on Brianetta's phrase ;)
16:00<Brianetta>have it
16:00<Chrill>Swedes call me Chrille :(
16:00<lobster>i don't know iff *.ogg works
16:00*Brianetta renames it slightly
16:00<Chrill>do so
16:01<Aali>yeah *.ogg is dead
16:01<yorick>:o your LEO doesn't even have nl-de :-(
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: germans tend to avoid the word "do" like the plague ;)
16:01<yorick>do they?
16:02<@petern>They do.
16:02<planetmaker>bad style :P
16:02<yorick>english does not, I think
16:02<lobster>Aali: sorry, NiceCast doesn't seem to like it
16:02<lobster>i'll try and fix it
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>english does use the word do almost everywhere
16:03<planetmaker>yorick: if you use it too often it sounds probably similar like africaans to you :)
16:03<Aali>lobster: mp3 is fine though :)
16:03<lobster>alright, good :D
16:04<yorick>planetmaker: africaans is with a k
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: leo started out with en-de only, they subsequently added more and more languages... maybe you can convince (or help) them to do nl-de as well ;)
16:04<planetmaker>I cannot spy a single k in the work you wrote, yorick ;)
16:05<+Prof_Frink>planetmaker: He's a gnome user.
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't it be afrigaans then?
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16:08<Ammler>I have spoken to packman guy, now. :-)
16:09<Ammler>the problem is that 0.6.0RC > 0.6.0
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16:14<Ammler>does someone here use the debian packages?
16:14<Ammler>packman says, that debian users will have the same problem.
16:15<lobster>what kind of OS is Debian anyway?
16:15<lobster>Linux version?
16:15<Ammler>no, debian.
16:15<Ammler>lobster, wasn't serious?
16:15<lobster>sorry, i was... i'm a bit of a noob, perhaps
16:15<lobster>i shall wiki it
16:16<Ammler>Debian ist a independent Linux Distribution
16:16<Brianetta>Debian uses Linux
16:16<Ammler>oh, sorry :-)
16:16<lobster>ah, yes
16:16<Brianetta>although they're adamant that they don't *have* to use Linux
16:16<lobster>sort of the Linux splinter group
16:16<Brianetta>They'd be happy to use Hurd if it, you know, actually existed
16:16<lobster>Linux RAF
16:17<Brianetta>Linux splinter group?
16:17<Brianetta>I don't get you
16:17<lobster>splinter group is a radical faction of a larger entity
16:17<Brianetta>Linux is a kernel
16:17<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: my SwissTowns grf :-)
16:17<lobster>it was a figure of speech
16:17<lobster>and a joke, at that
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>but they are... swiss...
16:18<Brianetta>ok )-:
16:18*Brianetta didn't get it
16:18<+Prof_Frink>lobster: rms' beard is the radical faction of linuxy peoples
16:19<Ammler>not sure, if german towns can be generated...
16:20<Ammler>well, you could maybe combine it with real names.
16:21<Ammler>there is no Debian user here?
16:21-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:22<Brianetta>Announcement: Brianetta's Standard Server is hosting a guest scenario by Chrill.
16:22<Brianetta>All are welcome.
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>btw, Brianetta, some fact about the licensing stuff for MBs graphics, technically, licenses in germany (by default) only cover uses that are known at the time of giving the license, so when the grf was released long before newgrf support in openttd was to be expected, the license would not cover the use in openttd
16:24<Ammler>[22:22] <Brianetta> All are welcome. <-- you mean 10 :P
16:25<@petern>There are Debian users here, yes.
16:27<+Prof_Frink>Debian GNU/Linux 4.0
16:27<Ammler>[22:25] <petern> There are Debian users here, yes. <-- could they install the 0.6.0RC1 and check if debian detect 0.6.0 as update.
16:28<Ammler>or with 0.6.3 :-)
16:30<Brianetta>Eddi: I'm not subject to German law
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16:31<@petern>But as they're not in a repo, I can't tell you what happens for updates.
16:31<@petern>However, I shall assume that the debian packages are not retarded, and will upgrade properly.
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: concerning copyright, both the jurisdiction of the copyright holder, and the jurisdiction of the licensee/potential copyright infringer matters
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: one effect of this is for example licenses given out to distribute music do not cover distributing music over the internet, if the license is given out before 1995
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>in that case, new licenses covering the previously unknown way of distributing must be given out
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>(and paid for in an appropriate way)
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>it probably won't have an effect on trivial changes, like switching from CDs to DVDs, as they basically are the same
16:36<Brianetta>Eddi: Thanks for the legal advice. I shall take it all on board.
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>i have to deny the fact that this is legal advice. you need to be a certified lawyer to give legal advice, which i am not ;)
16:38<Brianetta>OK, off to watch Death Race 2000
16:38<+Prof_Frink>Note to self: Point at something not-IRC when wiping dust off middle mouse button
16:38<Brianetta>See how it ocmparesto the one in the cinema
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16:39<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: i suggest turning off the mouse first :p
16:39<+Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Not that easy
16:39<+Prof_Frink>Well, I could probably poke something in /dev
16:40<+Prof_Frink>But I don't know what
16:45<Ammler>also does sort it the other way...
16:46<@petern>That's an alphabetic directory list.
16:47<+glx>filename and internal version are different things
16:49<@petern>Ammler, again, complain to the packman package packager, not us :)
16:50<Ammler>petern: I did :-)
16:50<Ammler>hmm, maybe the "-1" does the "trick"
16:51<+glx>for debian the "~" does the trick
16:51<+glx>not in filename but in version
16:56<blathijs>petern: Ammler: The Debian versioning is correct, ~ is sorted before everything, including the end-of-string
16:57-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
16:59<blathijs>Ammler: And the ~ has been added to allow exactly these kinds of versioning schemes to work (works since Debian etch IIRC)
16:59<@petern>Way before etch, I'm sure.
17:00<@petern>So I'm probably wrong :D
17:00<Ammler>so openttd is not the only app using that scheme?
17:01<@petern>What, "x.x.xRCx" ?
17:03<fjb>I'm giving up trying to start a game before 1831.
17:03<@petern>Swallow Livery!
17:03<blathijs>petern: No, the ~ was added not too long ago. Perhaps sarge, but certainly not before that.
17:04<@petern>Sarge is long ago :)
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17:07<blathijs>petern: It's only one release before Etch, so I wouldn't say "way before Etch" :-)
17:07<blathijs>Ammler: Yeah, there are other apps using that scheme
17:07<blathijs>Ammler: Why?
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17:08<Ammler>just wondering, if it is a "specia"l openttd scheme, or something official debianish.
17:08<blathijs>Ammler: Try "aptitude search ~Vrc"
17:08<Ammler>blathijs: I don't have debian
17:09<blathijs>Ammler: Then install Debian first! :-p
17:09<Ammler>that's why I am aksing such noobish question about.
17:09<blathijs>I'd hazard a guess that under a percent of Debian users actually know about the version sorting of ~
17:09<@petern>True... everything's slow with debian :D
17:09<blathijs>So hardly noobish :-p
17:09<blathijs>petern: Just run unstable :-)
17:09<@petern>Possibly only TTDPatch's release schedule is slower.
17:10<@petern>blathijs, no, I *like* etch ;)
17:10<fjb>babylon:~> aptitude search ~Vrc
17:10-!-Yeggstry [] has quit []
17:10<Ammler>well, debian is not for my league.
17:10<fjb>unknown user: ~Vrc
17:12<+Prof_Frink>petern: That's why we have Umbongo!
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17:23<Eddi|zuHause><petern> Possibly only TTDPatch's release schedule is slower. <- then there's still MB's release schedule ;)
17:25-!-Mortal [] has quit [Quit: [FATAL] Client error: Memory leak - More RAM needed. More! More! More!]
17:25<+Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Three things:
17:25<+Prof_Frink>1. GNU Hurd
17:25<+Prof_Frink>2. Enlightenment DR17
17:25<+Prof_Frink>2. Duke Nukem Forever
17:25<@Belugas>pffffff... time to go... at last
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17:53<Eddi|zuHause>hm... there's another one of those Scrubs puns that i can't imagine how the english original would have been.
17:54-!-Dred_furst [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>there's an episode where a danish patient is in the hospital, and he can't speak english, so his brother translates for him
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>and the brother does not tell that the guy has a serious desease
17:54<Aali>why dont you just watch the original episodes? :P
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>later in the episode there's a daydream where they stomp on red balloons, in the background playing "99 Luftballons" (99 red balloons)
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>and after the daydream ends, JD says in the german version "'Dänen lügen nicht' wäre ein besserer Song gewesen"
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>it translates as "'Danes don't lie' would have been a better song
17:56<Nite_Owl>Good song
17:56<Aali>which season?
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>it's a play on another german song, called "Tränen lügen nicht"
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>(tears don't lie)
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i don't remember which season
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>spontaneously i'd say around season 3
17:58<Aali>yeah, its not after season 3
17:59<Ammler>blathijs: I have a self made RC1 build here, the version string has the normal dash:
18:00<Ammler>so does that mean, you need manual work for debian release?
18:02<blathijs>Ammler: How is your grub config relevant?
18:02<Ammler>thats my ups for :-)
18:02<blathijs>Ah :-)
18:03<Ammler>I should sometime add windows again there :-)
18:03<blathijs>Ammler: Normal dash in the debian version, or what?
18:03<Ammler>but I fear the online updates
18:03<Ammler>blathijs: the version string is: 0.6.3-RC1
18:04<Ammler>so no ~
18:04<blathijs>Ammler: Is that what openttd reports, or aptitude?
18:04<Ammler>so it seems, you manually change that for debian builds?
18:04<blathijs>Ah, like that
18:04<Ammler>./openttd -h
18:04<Aali>Eddi|zuHause: season 2, episode 20, - My Interpretation ;)
18:04<blathijs>yes, the Debian version number is always based on os/debian/changelog
18:04<Ammler>or ./
18:05<blathijs>And in the case of official Debian releases, the changelog file that I keep myself, outside of the openttd svn
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: so... what does he say there?
18:05<blathijs>Anyway, I'm off to bed
18:06<blathijs>See you later!
18:06<Ammler>thanks blathijs
18:06<Aali>Eddi|zuHause: after that song?
18:06<Aali>let me check
18:06<Ammler>good night.
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>yes, right afterwars
18:09<Aali>he just says: "Nah, that would never work"
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>so it's really one of the rare occurances where the translation adds a joke ;)
18:10<Aali>seems like it
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18:19<+glx><Eddi|zuHause> there's an episode where a danish patient is in the hospital, and he can't speak english, so his brother translates for him <-- hmm in french it's a german patient IIRC
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18:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14433 /branches/noai/ (179 files in 10 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14420:14421.
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18:42<Eddi|zuHause>glx: well, it is understandable that they change germans to non-germans in the german translation, to keep the language barrier story ;)
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>the fact that they use a german song is a hint that it was originally about germans ;)
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18:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14434 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14432): compile warning.
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19:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14435 /branches/noai/ (194 files in 14 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14421:r14434
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21:56<ln>nucular weapons!
21:59*fjb hides.
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23:30<ccfreak2k>Giant train jam.
23:30<ccfreak2k>There were like 30 trains stacked up and stuck.
23:34<DaleStan>TrueBrain: With the new nightly server, the old collection of TTDPatch nightlies has disappeared. Are they completely gone, or could they be shoveled somewhere on the new server? (See
---Logclosed Fri Oct 03 00:00:26 2008