Back to Home / #openttd / 2008 / 10 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-10-03

---Logopened Fri Oct 03 00:00:26 2008
01:25-!-TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:28-!-TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd
01:28-!-Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0F71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
01:34-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
01:38-!-De_Ghosty [~s@75-119-224-200.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:47-!-De_Ghost [~s@76-10-139-220.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd
01:57-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5EC50.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
02:02-!-Jezral [~projectjj@85.27.135.237] has joined #openttd
02:03-!-De_Ghost [~s@76-10-139-220.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:09-!-keyweed_ [~keyweed@home.keyweed.com] has joined #openttd
02:09-!-TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@85.27.135.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:11-!-mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
02:12-!-keyweed [~keyweed@home.keyweed.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:37-!-Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-25.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd
02:49-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd
02:58-!-boekabart [525c0bbb@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
02:58<boekabart>Is there a function to calculate the 'exact' height somewhere in the middle of a tile?
02:59<boekabart>smth like GetTileHeight( tilex, tiley, tile_pixel_x, tile_pixel_y) or so?
02:59<boekabart>... one that is smarter than just linearly interpolating the corner heights ...
03:03-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:04-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd
03:06<@petern>Poor Ammler, still doesn't get it.
03:07<@petern>boekabart, GetSlopeZ(x, y)
03:13-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F34.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:13-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
03:26-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:30-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd
03:39-!-mikl_ [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
03:39-!-mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:39-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F34.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:40-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5EC50.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
03:40-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
03:44*petern applies glue to Eddi|zuHause
03:54-!-mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has joined #openttd
03:56<Ammler>petern: don't get what?
03:56<Ammler>good morning btw. :-)
03:56-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
03:57<@petern>Versions
03:58-!-Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-51.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd
04:08-!-Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-51.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:19-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5EC50.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
04:19<@petern>Ammler, in that OpenTTD version is not necessarily the same string as the package version.
04:21<Ammler>petern: it is obvious for you and maybe it was for me, but it doesn't need to be obvious for external packager...
04:21<Ammler>at least it wasn't for the suse builder, I hope, he is able to handle that next time.
04:23<Ammler>well, I wouldn't package testing builds anyway.
04:33<@petern>There is that...
04:46-!-Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-51.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd
04:48<Eddi|zuHause>why do i get a message about announcing industry closure when the industry is already closed?
04:48-!-MapperOG [~MapperOG@p57B2E728.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
04:50<Ammler>maybe there were multiple news at same time and the message was postponded...
04:51<Ammler>-d
04:52-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
04:52<Brianetta>How does one create Makefile.bundle?
04:52<Brianetta>I can't make install because that file doesn't exist
04:57<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: but not for an entire month, especially not with daylength 8
04:57<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: shouldn't ./configure take care of that?
04:57<Brianetta>Eddi: It didn't
04:58<Ammler>configure needs makefile.bundle to create makefile
04:58<Brianetta>Ammler: Apparently not. I can delete Makefile, and configure will still recreate it.
04:58<Brianetta>It still builds openttd, as well.
04:58<Brianetta>Makefile.bundle.in exists
04:58<Brianetta>but not Makefile.bundle
05:01<Eddi|zuHause>*.in are the template files from the * file should be generated
05:01<Brianetta>I know
05:01<Brianetta>Something needs to process them
05:02<Brianetta>I don't know what, though
05:02<Brianetta>I've tried deleting conifg.cache
05:05<Eddi|zuHause>well, then i have no further idea what could be the problem
05:06<Brianetta>Neither do I, which is exactly why I came on here.
05:09<Brianetta>URL: svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/0.6.3
05:09<Brianetta>Makefile:REVISION = 0.6.2
05:09<Brianetta>readme.txt:Release version: 0.6.2
05:09<Brianetta>That's not right
05:09<Brianetta>I think that the tag is basically ballsed up.
05:11-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d876ae6.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
05:11-!-mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ
05:11<@Celestar>\o
05:11*Celestar sighs
05:11<@Celestar>so much for global warming. it snows
05:11<Brianetta>Global warming is the macro effect
05:12<Brianetta>locally, you can get cooling
05:12<@Celestar>I wasn't dead serious you know (=
05:12<@Celestar>heh. it stopped :P
05:12<Brianetta>If global warming really takes off, the Gulf Stream might divert, meaning a reduction of temperatures in the UK and a possible revival of our ski industry.
05:12<Brianetta>That'd be cool.
05:12<Brianetta>heh
05:12<Brianetta>cool
05:13<@Celestar>er Brianetta .. you need mountains for a ski industry :P
05:13<boekabart>scotland has high enough hills I suppose
05:13<Vikthor>Celestar:You are in Muenchen?
05:13<Brianetta>Celestar: Would you like to take a stroll in our Cairngorm National park?
05:13*Brianetta was on a mountain just a couple of days ago
05:13<@Celestar>Vikthor: plentifully south of it for the time being, not far from the Austrian border.
05:14<@Celestar>Brianetta: I dunno. My home's elevation is already 2000ft (=
05:14<Brianetta>Like Germany isn't all the same kind of land as as Berlin, the UK isn't all flat either
05:14<Vikthor>ohh so already almost in the Alps?
05:14<Brianetta>If your elevation is 200 ft, the mountains must all appear to be exactly the same size as ours.
05:15<@Celestar>Vikthor: yeah, in Garmisch, visiting family.
05:15<Vikthor>aha GaPa
05:15<Brianetta>It's not height above sea level that counts; it's how much higher you have to trudge.
05:15<@Celestar>Brianetta: well, the Zugspitz is pretty much 10000ft
05:15-!-daspork_ [~daspork@71-87-194-249.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #openttd
05:15<Brianetta>What's that in real metres?
05:15<@Celestar>3000
05:15<@Celestar>m
05:15-!-daspork_ [~daspork@71-87-194-249.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit []
05:16<Vikthor>that explains it, I was bit worried because snow in Muenchen could mean we would get it in Prague later
05:16-!-daspork [~daspork@71-87-194-249.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:16<Brianetta>That's a respectable height, and far in excess of what's required to be called a mountain.
05:16<@Celestar>and one of the few mountains that can be reached by railway (=
05:16<Brianetta>We have two
05:16<Brianetta>Snowdon has a railway to the top, as does Cairn Gorm
05:16<@Celestar>the Zugspitzbahn doesn't reach the top, only about 2600m or something
05:17<Brianetta>They gave up
05:17<Brianetta>before the top
05:17<Brianetta>should have chosen a shorter mountain
05:17<@Celestar>25% maximum slope
05:18<@Celestar>but it's 45 EUR a round trip :(
05:18<@Celestar>1000mm gauge
05:18<Brianetta>http://www.lake-district.gov.uk/understanding_-_climate_derwentwater_winter.jpg
05:18<Brianetta>Got married near to this camera position
05:19<@petern>Eddi|zuHause, trunk?
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>cargodest
05:19<Brianetta>actually, that's not the valey I thought it was
05:19<Brianetta>but it's nearby
05:20<@petern>Eddi|zuHause, ah right... well it feels like something fishy in Belugas' change :/
05:20<Brianetta>Oh, it *is* that valley
05:20<Brianetta>but on the other side of the water to where I was married (:
05:21<@petern>readme.txt:Release version: 0.6.3
05:21<@petern>Maybe your checkout is busted.
05:21<@Celestar>interesting catenary mounting: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Panorama_Train_station_NALB_Allersberg_DE.jpg
05:21<Brianetta>petern: svn says the files are OK
05:23<@petern>Was it a clean checkout or a switch?
05:23<Eddi|zuHause><Celestar> the Zugspitzbahn doesn't reach the top, only about 2600m or something <- around here we have the Brockenbahn, it reaches the top, but that top isn't nearly as high ;)
05:24<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: it's a rag railways as well I guess?
05:25<Brianetta>switch
05:25<Eddi|zuHause>no... it's normal narrow gauge railway
05:25<@Celestar>oh
05:25<@Celestar>I see
05:26<@Celestar>Stuttgart has it's own rack railway :D
05:26<@Celestar>its
05:26<Vikthor>the Pet??n funicular railway reaches the top, but that's only 327 m :D
05:26<Vikthor>gradient is 29.5% though
05:27<@Celestar>nice gradient
05:27*Celestar wonders what the maximum gradient is that normal railways use
05:29<Eddi|zuHause>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brockenbahn
05:30-!-welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
05:31-!-mikl_ [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:31<@Celestar>.. apparently 7.9% for normal gauge
05:32<Eddi|zuHause>someone told me that in norway they advertise some railway as the highest gradient conventional rail
05:32<welshdragon>y
05:32<@Celestar>dunno
05:32<welshdragon>that's bullshit
05:33<@Celestar>the 4% on Frankfurt - Köln can feel pretty badly :P
05:33<welshdragon>the highest gradient conventional rail is in switzerland
05:35<Vikthor>Celestar, yeah that's pretty interesting, was in Aachen by car in August and the track has almost the same profile as Autobahn
05:35<welshdragon>or even Peru
05:38-!-mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:39-!-FR^2 [fr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd
05:39<@Celestar>Vikthor: yeah :)
05:40<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: the Brokenbahn is still steam-only?
05:40<Eddi|zuHause>it says "almost steam only"
05:41<@Celestar>dunno, I've just read about it somewhere years ago :P
05:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's a tourist attraction, i don't think they scrap the steam engines any time soon :p
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>they have also some diesel railcars, but those are usually used on the other lines
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>and they have some regauged diesel engines, which were mainly intended for freight traffic
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>but i have seen them used on passenger trains, too
05:47*Celestar is going to have an ICE3 ride tomorrow ;)
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>the only time i used an ICE was when i got it for free...
05:48<@Celestar>heh I pay 75 EUR round trip for Munich-Pasing to Köln Hbf.
05:48<@Celestar>which is *much* less than by car
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>and even then not regularly, as they practically went orthogonal to the way i wanted to go
05:49<@Celestar>I've never managed to catch and ICE2 up to now
05:49<@Celestar>only 1, 3 and T
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>there aren't that many ICE2, i suppose ;)
05:50<@Celestar>not in Munich
05:51<Eddi|zuHause>they are used on routes where the splitting ability is useful, i assume... like Berlin - Ruhr area
05:51<@Celestar>the ICE3 usually runs everything that continues on Frankfurt - Köln NBS, the ICE1 runs everything that goes via Würzburg-Hannover and the ICE-T is used on the Berlin route (since it's 25 minutes faster than every other train due to tilting)
05:51-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
05:53*Celestar sighs ... "girls"
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>well, yes, you wouldn't pass through Thüringen without tilting :p
05:54<@Celestar>nope, not really (=
05:54*Vikthor just found out, that there is hg on the school computer, let's install cargodest :D
05:54<@Celestar>heh :D
05:55-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
05:56-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1F1D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
05:57-!-Zahl [~Zahl@f051071065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
05:57-!-Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen
06:00-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FFDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:00<fjb>Hello
06:00<Vikthor>hi fjb
06:01*Celestar shakes head in utter disbelief
06:02-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5adb1dad.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:03-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad9f9ee.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
06:03-!-elmex [~elmex@e180066037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
06:04<@Celestar>which idiot came up with the "Gesundheitsfonds" in Germany :S
06:05<fjb>The same people who wish to introduce "Rentenfonds".
06:05<MapperOG>wasn't it Ulla Schmidt?!
06:06*Celestar thinks he needs to accelerate his plans to emigrate :S
06:06<MapperOG>what a shame - I should know, I visited an info campang back when I was working for a health insurance company..
06:07<@Celestar>I hate all this state-driven stuff :S
06:08<keyweed_>yes. doing it commerically is much wiser.
06:09<keyweed_>since they moved to commercial health insurance my fees have been raised by 500% and my coverage halfed.
06:09<keyweed_>*halved.
06:09<@Celestar>I'm effectively paying 550 EUR a month for health insurance
06:09<keyweed_>oO
06:10<keyweed_>woah. then i should not complain.
06:10<@Celestar>and I don't have any coverage except that what prevents immidiate death or maybe loss of limb
06:10<keyweed_>unless you make somewhere near 10 000 eur a month
06:10<@Celestar>3300 EUR gross
06:10<@Celestar>which is 1900 EUR net
06:11<keyweed_>oO
06:11<keyweed_>that's absurd
06:11<keyweed_>i make about 2100 net and pay about 150/month and it does still cover the essentials
06:12<@Celestar>I don't get a PENNY for new glasses (I have 8 diopters ... )
06:12<@Celestar>apparently someone things not running around blind is a luxury
06:13<@Celestar>thinks*
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>i currently pay around 60€ for health insurance
06:14<@Celestar>I also pay around 600 EUR a month for "retirement insurance" ...
06:15<Eddi|zuHause>based on some totally imaginary assumption of an income ;)
06:16<@Celestar>but the 3300 EUR gross is not really gross. What my employer pays is 4000 EUR a month. 1900 EUR which I get. In other words, the state keeps over 50% of my income right away.
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it's so funny ;)
06:18<@Celestar>yeah.
06:18<@Celestar>I mean if we even had a proper road and rail network, I don't even complain, but you cannot even get around this country.
06:18<@Celestar>We had 400km worth of traffic jams in Bavaria yesterday. It was a clear, sunny day.
06:19<@Celestar>so no "bad weather" excuses
06:19<@Celestar>there are no vacations starting or ending either.
06:19<Vikthor>I am off to lunch, bye for now
06:19-!-Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-51.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i was listening to traffic report yesterday morning, everything was clear then. and then when i went back in the evening it was like "4km jam because of an accident, 3km jam because of an accident, 12km jam because of several accidents, ..."
06:20<@Celestar>so I'm kinda wondering whose throats all my money get stuffed into.
06:20<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: 40km on the A8 Munich-Rosenheim without accident. 35km on the A9 Munich Nuremburg without accident.
06:20<@Celestar>it's just the the roads can't cope with traffic
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>hm... no... it wasn't on that kind of scale here ;)
06:21<@Celestar>25km on the A6 near Nuremburg.
06:21<@Celestar>30km on the A99 around Munich..
06:21<@Celestar>ok there was a crash on the A99
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>you can't imagine how traffic was around here, 15 years ago
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>it significantly improved
06:22<@Celestar>are you anywhere near the A70/A73/A4 area?
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>but maybe that is because everyone who owned a car went away as quickly as possible :p
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>no... A4 is far south from here
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>we have A9, A14, A38 here
06:23<@Celestar>ah
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>where the latter is not fully complete yet
06:23<@Celestar>yeah, and some drunk idiot went for the H solution instead of the X solution?
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>the what?
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>finishing of the A14 probably caused the best improvement in traffic around here
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>so all traffic towards Magdeburg doesn't have to go through Halle-Trotha anymore
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>the B6 is practically empty now ;)
06:27<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: initiall the A14 should be extended from Magdeburg to Hamburg and the A39 from Wolfsburg to Schwerin, with the two crossing somewhere (The X solution). Now, they're planning to connect Wolfsburg to Hamburg and Magdeburg to Schwerin, building two parallel highways about 50 km apart without any kind of interconnection.
06:27-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:27-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>that is far north from here ;)
06:28<@Celestar>it is kind of stupid anyway
06:29-!-Zorni [zorn@e177225101.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:29<@petern>*sigh*
06:29<@petern>PCI-DSS compliance is a joke.
06:30<Eddi|zuHause>the most funny thing around here is that they planned the A36, and then did not have any money to build it, so instead they build that exact plan under the name B6N ;)
06:30<Eddi|zuHause>where the money comes from another source ;)
06:31<@Celestar>yeah
06:31-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit []
06:31-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
06:31<@Rubidium>retirement insurance sounds pretty wrong ;)
06:31-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd []
06:31<@Rubidium>"you" getting money if you can't retire?
06:31-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
06:31<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: you know, it is kind of interesting, seeing that both are federal roads ...
06:32<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: it's ambiguous only in the english translation
06:32-!-Zorn [zorn@g224105135.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of federal roads... they plan to continue the B242 from the crossing with the B180 (where it ends now) to Halle, over an _existing_ road for over 15 years now, and they still did not manage that...
06:34<Eddi|zuHause>the only requirement to putting up the plates is having turnout lanes on the crossings...
06:35<@Celestar>heh
06:35<@Celestar>welcome to Germany :P
06:36<@Celestar>I wonder why infrastructure sucks so badly around this country
06:36<ln>you have too much of it
06:36<@Celestar>er .. we don't
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>well... neglecting infrastructure in half the country for 40 years must have some long term side effects...
06:37*Celestar points ln to the note of having 400km traffic jams yesterday
06:37<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: well, it's not half the country ...
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>well, two halves are exactly equal, right? ;)
06:37<@SmatZ>hello Celestar :) as you asked me about that gcc 2.95 test ... it works :)
06:38-!-welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:38<@Celestar>SmatZ: awesome ;)
06:38<@SmatZ>Celestar: but this patch is needed : http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/gcc295cargodest.diff
06:39<@Celestar>looking
06:39<@Celestar>ah ok
06:39-!-Mark [~M4rk@5ED06875.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:40<@Celestar>k I gotta go
06:40<@Celestar>thanks SmatZ ;)
06:41-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d876ae6.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: leaving]
06:43-!-Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-68.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd
06:45-!-Rexxie [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has joined #openttd
06:46-!-welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
06:46-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:48-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B80A59.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:49-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B810CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
06:49-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
06:49-!-mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
06:52-!-Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-68.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:57-!-Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
07:01<@petern>Has anyone here done mailman list migration?
07:03*keyweed_ goes into denial
07:05<ln>a finnish company offering rental apartments has banned keeping swastika flags on balconies.
07:09<Doorslammer>Such is discrimination in Finland :P
07:10-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:12-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
07:20-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd []
07:20-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
07:21<keyweed_>pft. no swatikas. and they're such a friendly decorative addition to the suburbal atmosphere.
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>swastikas per se are not banned in germany, only associating them with anti-constutional movements is
07:22<Doorslammer>Um, apparently they are though
07:22<Doorslammer>Ever tried to get a model kit with them in Germany?
07:22<Ammler>Hakenkreuz?
07:22<Doorslammer>Good luck with that ;)
07:23<Ammler>I once draw a network plan on the #openttdcoop server, someone thought, it looks like one and my plan got banned because of that :-)
07:24<MapperOG>lol swastikas in Germany are pretty much banned (if it's not a symbolic destruction of the same)
07:24<MapperOG>but btw. I tried to play a netgame of openttd 0.6.3 RC1-111 and could get into the game, as soon as one connected and the other one unpaused the game we got a desync
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>Doorslammer: well, they are certainly not put on toys :p
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>you CAN use them for historical documentations and stuff
07:26<Doorslammer>Thats because their depiction is banned outright, decals have to be changed for German market on say airplane kits and the like :)
07:27<@petern>Silly.
07:27<Doorslammer>http://www.pravda.ru <--- the forum here is so anti-semitic it is something almost cartoon-like :S
07:27<Ammler>MapperOG: do you use suse?
07:28<@petern>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/HinduSwastika.svg :D
07:28<MapperOG>Ammler: yes..
07:28<MapperOG>there was also a hospize movement called the "Red Swastika" ?!
07:28<Ammler>well, it doesn't help, was just curious ;-)
07:28<Doorslammer>Still, good for a laugh, the Russians. They may mock the financial mess in the US, but of course they don't mention most oligarchs and banks have gone out of business or bankrupt in good ol' Moskva
07:29<Ammler>the wikipedia page about is huge.
07:30<@petern>about what?
07:37-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@f051071065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
07:37-!-Zahl [~Zahl@f051071065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:37-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
07:44<Ammler>(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika)
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>"(3) Absatz 1 gilt nicht, wenn das Propagandamittel oder die Handlung der staatsbürgerlichen Aufklärung, der Abwehr verfassungswidriger Bestrebungen, der Kunst oder der Wissenschaft, der Forschung oder der Lehre, der Berichterstattung über Vorgänge des Zeitgeschehens oder der Geschichte oder ähnlichen Zwecken dient." (§86/86a StGB) <- these are the cases where using a swastika is allowed
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>note that "placing on toy models" is not part of this list ;)
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think a toy model would pass as "art" in the sense of this paragraph
07:48-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>it's definitely a grey area, so the commercial producers won't risk it
07:58-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
07:58-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd []
07:58-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
08:05-!-Zorn [zorn@g224105135.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:07-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:08-!-Zorn [zorn@e177113175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
08:15-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FFDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:18-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
08:19-!-FR^2 [fr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...]
08:19-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd []
08:20-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
08:29-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm154.epsilon120.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd
08:29-!-M4rk [~M4rk@5ED06875.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
08:29-!-M4rk is now known as Mark
08:34-!-glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
08:34-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
08:35-!-Volley [~worf@84-119-54-39.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd
08:41-!-roboboy [3d459439@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
08:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14436 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1793]: (fast) trains would sometimes move one time too often/little when moving from diagonal<->non-diagonal tracks (iguannab)
08:57-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad9f9ee.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:57-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>damn... i felt so disoriented suddenly...
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>i opened a station window
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>and searched for the "Einschätzung" button
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>but had to realize first to look at the "Bewertung" button instead
09:04<Gekz>auf Englisch?
09:07<ln>Oneschaetdzung, Beworthung
09:09-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has joined #openttd
09:10-!-boekabart [525c0bbb@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>why don't we have custom bridge heads for road yet?
09:11<@Rubidium>cause you don't have them for trains either?
09:13-!-welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:13<@petern>cos you've not written them :D
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: well, the reason for trains was that signal behaviour couldn't be adapted. but road vehicles do not have signals
09:23<@petern>Hmm, where is mailman getting this cgi-bin from :o
09:24-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
09:27-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FFDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
09:27<murray>http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200809/errord/eve_error.JPG
09:31<@petern>Uh huh
09:33-!-roboboy [3d459439@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
09:35<fjb>Never trust the words of a woman.
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>i really really need the ability to dynamically assemble freight trains
09:46-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad38369.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
09:47<@petern>Grrr
09:50-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
09:50-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
09:51<yorick>how is the size of a sparse_array chunk saved?
09:51<yorick>(number of items != "size")
09:51<yorick>(number of bytes == "size")
09:53<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Please implement it and you will be my hero.
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: chunk sizes are ALWAYS in bytes
09:54<yorick>Array sizes aren't.
09:54<yorick>so "array chunks" are special
09:55-!-Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-25.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit []
09:56-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
10:13-!-De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-136-20.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd
10:14-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
10:30-!-Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet513.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>multi tile waypoints are not working... i can't tell a train "use platform 4, or use platform 6 if 4 is full"
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>it will always attempt to go to platform 4, because the way is shorter, and it does not check if the platform is occupied
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>this could be solved by a lookahead
10:35<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: you can do that with signals and different lengths
10:35<Ammler>penalty is your friend :-)
10:37-!-FR^2 [fr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>how would that help?
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is exactly that there is no penalty for "train can't reach next destination from here"
10:38<@SmatZ>yapf has penalty for "last red signal"
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>but there is no "last signal" anymore, with YAPP
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>free platforms are now chosen by reserved state of the tile
10:40-!-Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has quit []
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>but if i now have a short waypoint station, and a real platform behind it, the waypoint station is not reserved
10:41<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: different plattform lengths has also different penalties.
10:41-!-Volley [~worf@84-119-54-39.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>so this lookahead would solve the problem with the reservation, as the pathfinder would consider the reservation behind the waypoint station
10:42<Ammler>maybe you need to adjust the default values.
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: platform length has absolutely no relevance to my problem
10:43-!-MapperOG [~MapperOG@p57B2E728.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:49<yorick>what's the best hex editor?
10:49<yorick>I'm currently using XVI32, but it does not have an option to display offset
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>a butterfly
10:50<fjb>KHexEdit
10:50<yorick>best WINDOWS hex iditor...
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>i have not in a long time seen a hex editor who did not attempt to read the whole file into memory first
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>and diskedit doesn't work anymore on modern systems
10:52<yorick>i'd prefer a butterfly
10:53<yorick>it can sit on windows, is portable, and is even colourful, but I can't compile butterflies, could you do that for me?
10:53<Prof_Frink>Sorry, I don't have emacs.
10:58-!-Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:58-!-Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
10:58-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14437 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: function to set/query the autoreplace wagon removal variable. Patch by Yexo.
11:03<yorick>why is zlib used as the main game compression format, and not lzo?
11:03<+glx>because it's better
11:04<yorick>zlib requires zlib
11:05<+glx>libpng requires zlib too
11:05<yorick>libpng is optional
11:05<+glx>so is zlib
11:06<yorick>you can't load any saves made with normal openttd without zlib
11:06<yorick>and why is lzo still supported if the format will be zlib?
11:06<+glx>because we support ttd savegames
11:06-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
11:07<@SmatZ>zlib is needed for png and freetype
11:07<yorick>ttd uses lzo?
11:07<@SmatZ>no, OTTD used to
11:08<yorick>ok :)
11:08<@SmatZ>I am not sure
11:08<@SmatZ>yeah, some kind of RLE is used in TTD
11:09<@petern>Yeah, not lzo.
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Cottbus%20Transport,%207.%20Jan%201931.png <- the problem. train has 3 platforms to choose from, but waits eternally for platform 1 to get free, because path reserving takes the occupied platform into account, but path finding does not
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Cottbus Transport,%2027.%20Dez%201930.png <- err this is the problem
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>the other one is the solution
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>damn, forgot one space...
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Cottbus%20Transport,%2027.%20Dez%201930.png
11:15<Aali>Eddi|zuHause: maybe you should hide the trees so we can actually see whats going on
11:18-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
11:25-!-welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
11:26<@petern>Hello, oh welsh one
11:27<welshdragon>hello petern
11:36<yorick>"delivered_cargo, SLE_INT32" <-- you can have a negative amount of cargo delivered?
11:37<FauxFaux>I've seen trains get negative income for delivering cargo, anyone else seen that?
11:38<yorick>yes.
11:38<FauxFaux>It was some orders screw up with transfers, I think.
11:38<yorick>cargo can drop in value below 0
11:38<FauxFaux>Heh, even better.
11:38<Yexo>yorick: are you sure of that?
11:38<yorick>I am quite sure of that
11:39<yorick>if you keep the cargo waiting too long, it will make you lose money when you deliver it
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: but... the trees are so lovely...
11:39<FauxFaux>I expect it normally "rots" before that happens, though.
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>plus, i did rather expect people to complain about the invisible station tiles :p
11:40<yorick>FauxFaux: you mean passengers can rot inside their coaches?
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>FauxFaux: it is not that the cargo has negative value, but the previously estimated value (at the transfer point) was higher than the final value
11:40<Aali>yorick: game mechanics page at the wiki begs to differ
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>so you still get paid, but the vehicle shows the difference between the expected and final value, which is negative
11:41<Yexo>yorick: and so does the code
11:41<yorick>maybe it's a cargodest-specific feature
11:41<Yexo>with cargodest, you always have tranfers, so that is just a tranfer 'problem'
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>no, it happens in trunk, too, only transfers are not very widespread
11:41<Yexo>like Eddi|zuHause explains
11:46-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm154.epsilon120.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:51-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
11:56<@petern>sacrelige!
11:56<Prof_Frink>Mmm, sacrilicious.
11:57<murray>sacre bleu!
11:57-!-nicky [IRC2GOUser@239.81-167-85.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd
11:57<nicky>hello
12:00<nicky>have a problem with my new station graphics, all of them, they are completely dark, almost like they are shaded. something terribly wrong there. anyone that can help?
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>go to the newgrf settings, and click on "toggle palette"
12:01<nicky>ok
12:01<nicky>thats it?
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>except you are in 0.6.x
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>then you got the wrong grf
12:02<nicky>0.6.2
12:02<nicky>oh shit
12:02<nicky>dammit
12:02<nicky>what grfs are compatible with 0.6.2? do you know?
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>grfs should come in a DOS and a Windows version
12:02<nicky>yes
12:02<nicky>only use the windows versions
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>depending on where your original grfs come from, you need the matching newgrf
12:03<nicky>it has work many times before
12:03<nicky>same grfs
12:03<nicky>worked*
12:03<Yexo>Rubidium: the engine pool is still missing from Roadmap 0.7, while I think that is also one of the bigger new features
12:03*Brianetta suspects nicky's transparency settings
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>if you use Win grfs with DOS newgrfs, this will usually result in very dark brown shades
12:04<nicky>yeah, i was wondering about that too
12:04<Brianetta>nicky: Click=hold the spanner. It's in there.
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>or the other way round with lots of pink
12:04<nicky>but it didnt help to change the transparency settings
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: "roadmap" is about "things to be done", not about "things that already have been finished"
12:05<nicky>eddi: oooh
12:05<nicky>eddi: thats probably it then
12:05<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: than take a look at http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap_0.7 and explain why the other items have been added
12:05<nicky>brianette: what does click hold the spanner mean?
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>it's a wiki... everyone adds what they want...
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't mean it's correct ;)
12:06<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: not on that page as it is protected
12:06<nicky>eddi: do you mean if i have downloaded both the dos version and the win version of the same grf?
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>nicky: if you did that, check in the newgrf window, which of the files have been loaded
12:07<nicky>eddi: k, ill check. tx
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>then try to unload that one, and load the other one
12:08<Yexo>is there anyone that can come up with a proper response to http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&p=733961#p733961 ?
12:09<@petern>Engine pool is not a huge feature. It's a behind-the-scenes change.
12:10<Sacro>Anyone here knowledgeable on Hungarian copyright law?
12:12<nicky>eddi: ive checked my newgrf files and i cant find any relevant doubles. and they all say "w" at the end, indicating its the windows version.
12:13<fjb>Yexo: What is that? Is it worth to answer selfish guys like that?
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: that enough?
12:13<nicky>eddi: do you think there can be some sort of crash between other grfs?
12:13<Yexo>thx Eddi|zuHause
12:13<Yexo>fjb: maybe not, but I found him too rude to let go
12:14<nicky>it says my trgt.grf file is corrupted or missing. could that be the problem?
12:16-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
12:16<fjb>Best part is his sentence: "I thought this forum is supposed to be for mutual assistance; not for a display of insulting egoistic expertise." :-)
12:16-!-Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:16<@Belugas>if it is missing, you would not be able to start the game
12:17<@Belugas>corrupted means you have somehow changed the grf itself. but this would very unlikely be the cause of a crash
12:17<nicky>kk
12:19<@Belugas>mmh... forums is slow of somehow blocked
12:19<@SmatZ>nicky: 0.6.3? you have the german version of GRFs ... trunk handles them fine :)
12:20<@Belugas>"waiting for www.tt-forums.net" :S
12:20<@SmatZ>but you can ignore that warning
12:20<@SmatZ>Belugas: works for me :)
12:20<@Belugas>therefor, must be blocked :(
12:22<nicky>smatz: i have 0.6.2, what do you mean by german versions?
12:23-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:23<nicky>is there a difference between languages in grfs?
12:23-!-Baem [~mm@p578b6f24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
12:23<Baem>hi all
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>nicky: no, but differences in publication of grfs
12:24<@SmatZ>nicky: GRF files from german OTTD version differ a bit
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>some sprites have been fixed in a version that was apparently distributed in germany, so the checksums are different, and openttd does not recognize them (or something)
12:24<@SmatZ>and OTTD 0.6.x knows only the english GRF version
12:25<nicky>ah
12:25<@SmatZ>ass eddi said :)
12:25<nicky>nice
12:25<nicky>i think i used grfcrawler on the stations
12:25<nicky>are there any german grfs there?
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>grfcrawler is about newgrfs, not original grfs
12:26<nicky>my original ttd? or my openttd version?
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>your original ttd
12:27<nicky>ah, right
12:27<nicky>dont remember where i downloaded that
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>pssst!
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>*wave hands* you did not download this anywhere
12:27<nicky>lol
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>*wave hands* you bought these in a store
12:27<nicky>i mean bought
12:28<nicky>of course
12:28<nicky>its slang
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>see, it works ;)
12:28<nicky>i downloaded some groceries a few minutes ago
12:28<+glx><nicky> it says my trgt.grf file is corrupted or missing. could that be the problem? <-- the filename is a DOS one (unless you failed to copy/paste)
12:29<Sacro|Laptop>Any hungerians here?
12:30<nicky>is it possible i managed to download a DOS original TTD, when the rest of the game is working fine from xp?
12:30<nicky>i mean bought
12:30<nicky>damn. sorry
12:30<nicky>more slang
12:30<Baem>where i do found the ranking thingy? i mean the bot like services with counts wins etc
12:30<nicky>a german DOS version lol
12:30<nicky>that would have done the trick
12:30<Baem>or maybe its an builtin? :D
12:30-!-Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
12:31<nicky>maybe i didnt even get the right game, maybe im actually playing ports of call
12:31<nicky>any new grfs for ports of call?
12:31<nicky>new ships?
12:31<nicky>:)
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>nicky: openttd only needs the grfs from an original TTD, whether that original version is DOS or Win does not matter to openttd
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>openttd runs on many other platforms
12:32<nicky>ah
12:33-!-dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i don't like how the bufferstops of ISR do not have catenary
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>MB's bufferstops do have them
12:36<nicky>well, tx for all your help, ill see what i find out. bb then
12:36-!-nicky [IRC2GOUser@239.81-167-85.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/]
12:37-!-mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
12:42-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:47<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause, mention it in the ISR thread
12:48<@petern>Heh, my buffer stops don't have catenary either :D
12:48<@petern>Mine/Born_Acorn's, that is.
12:48*petern ~/
12:49-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
12:53-!-welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone
12:53-!-dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:53-!-mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:53-!-mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
12:53-!-dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
12:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F34.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:57-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
12:57-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:01-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:01<Wolf01>hello
13:01-!-Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
13:07-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
13:07-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:09-!-mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
13:09-!-welshdra-gone is now known as welshdragon
13:09<welshdragon>Mortal, connection issues?
13:10<mortal``>yep
13:10<mortal``>don't worry bout it, I just switched to wired
13:10-!-Mortal is now known as Guest2997
13:10-!-mortal`` is now known as mortal
13:10-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
13:13-!-mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:16-!-Guest2997 [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:17-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
13:18-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit []
13:19-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
13:28-!-MapperOG [~MapperOG@p57B2DC7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r14438 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-03 17:45:52
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 6 fixed by tucalipe (6)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 6 fixed by habell (6)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 6 fixed by glx (6)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: galician - 6 fixed by Condex (6)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 6 fixed, 19 changed by sulai (25)
13:49<Chrill>shiny
13:50<Chrill>huzzah, I've kept Swedish up-to-date
13:50*Prof_Frink gets some more chalk
13:50-!-last_evolution [~last_evol@host044.keli.cz] has joined #openttd
13:50*Chrill feels like a very minor contributor to OpenTTD
13:53*Sacro|Laptop almost contribute
13:53<Sacro|Laptop>+d
13:53<Sacro|Laptop>but TrueBrain stole my glory :(
13:55*Prof_Frink pipes Sacro into his laptop
13:59-!-the_bat [~bart.mous@94-40-44-2.tktelekom.pl] has joined #openttd
14:00-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]]
14:01<the_bat>HELP ! how to start the internet server with active grf north american reneval set 2.0?
14:03<the_bat>when I try to run the server with date 1850 I can't build trains :-/ when I start at 1850 on single player evetything is working HELP
14:04-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...]
14:04<Wolf01>do you know how to convert youtube flv files to avi? super and other softwares throw errors or create blank files :|
14:06<ln>why would you want to do that in the first place?
14:06<Wolf01>windows mobile doesn't have a flash player :D
14:06<@Belugas>do yiou kow how to override efficiently the MeasureItem function on a TMainMenu descendant? I do not want to redo the whole code :P
14:07<+glx>Wolf01: ffmpeg should be able to do it
14:07<Wolf01>I just tried
14:07<Wolf01>#Error!
14:07<Wolf01>:(
14:07<+glx>broken flv maybe
14:08<Wolf01>I can see them on the pc
14:08<+glx>too recent flash version is another possibilities
14:08<+glx>s/ies/y/
14:08<Wolf01>I might try updating super again
14:08<Wolf01>I did it some days ago
14:09<Wolf01>ok, days... july/2008
14:10<fjb>the_bat: Which version of OpenTTD are you using?
14:16<Wolf01>oh finally I found the download.. that site is a labyrinth :O
14:18-!-Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd
14:19-!-orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has left #openttd []
14:19-!-orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd
14:19-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
14:19<FauxFaux>Mmm, eGRVTS claims it's not compatiable with 0.6.x, I've never used newgrf before, and want ponies. It appears to work with the latest release, thoughts?
14:20-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FFDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:24-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FFDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:24<fjb>!logs
14:24<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
14:24<FauxFaux>Oh, yeah, that's so totally not working.
14:24<Sacro|Laptop>Right, I've just upgraded from 0.6.3-RC1 to 0.6.3 and fullscreen mode is broken
14:24<Sacro|Laptop>can no longer get 1280x800
14:25<Sacro|Laptop>Any way to debug?
14:25<@SmatZ>FauxFaux: no
14:25<@SmatZ>Sacro|Laptop: windows?
14:26<@SmatZ>but there were no changes of this kind between RC1 and release
14:26<Sacro|Laptop>SmatZ: yes
14:26<ln>Sacro|Laptop: try pouring a cup of tea on the laptop and observe whether there's any change.
14:26<Sacro|Laptop>ln: what type?
14:27<Sacro|Laptop>brown, black or green
14:27<Sacro|Laptop>also, with milk or suger?
14:27<ln>earl grey is what picard drinks, without milk, probably.
14:27<ln>now cows on the enterprise.
14:27<ln>-w
14:28<@SmatZ>Sacro|Laptop: works for me
14:28<@SmatZ>1280x800
14:28<FauxFaux>Fullscreen works here, dual head, 1920x1200, fwiw.
14:28-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1F1D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:29<Wolf01>About fullscreen, does anybody noticed that alt+enter does not make the game going fullscreen/window mode but the window disappear and appear again unchanged?
14:29<Sacro|Laptop>hmm, works now
14:29<Sacro|Laptop>Wolf01: i did
14:30<@SmatZ>Wolf01: works for me...
14:30<@SmatZ>in 0.6.3
14:31<@SmatZ>in 0.6.3 windows, trunk linux
14:31<Wolf01>I'll try after update
14:33-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@g230128176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
14:33-!-Zahl [~Zahl@f051071065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:33-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
14:35<Wolf01>doesn't work for me, trunk windows xp
14:36-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
14:36<@SmatZ>Wolf01: could it be caused by r14363 ?
14:36<Wolf01>no
14:36<Wolf01>I noticed it about 6 months ago
14:37<Wolf01>but I always forgot to report it
14:37<@SmatZ>hmm right, r14363 was backported
14:38<Wolf01>some times I need to windowize the game and the hotkeys don't work
14:38<@SmatZ>sometimes they don't work, but sometimes they do?
14:38<Wolf01>so I re-notice the bug, but I re-forgot to report it
14:38<Wolf01>no, always
14:38<@SmatZ>ok :)
14:39-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:39<Wolf01>some times mean "what I need to do 2 things at once" :P
14:39<@SmatZ>:-)
14:40<@petern>Not in English...
14:40<Wolf01>oh, nice, now it tells "fullscreen mode failed"
14:40<Wolf01>s/what/when
14:41-!-Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0F71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.lagerwiki.de - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik]
14:41<Wolf01>AH!
14:41<Wolf01>it seems to try to use the weird windowed resolution when trying to switch to fullscreen
14:42<Wolf01>setting it to 640x480 worked
14:44<Wolf01>that resolution should be used for fullscreen purpose only, and it shouldn't be changed by resizing the window
14:45<Wolf01>(why somebody wants to set a window size?)
14:46-!-Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:46<@Belugas>there is a big difference between using the full size of the screen and fullscreen mode
14:46<Wolf01>yes I know
14:47<Wolf01>but the window doesn't have a resolution
14:47<Wolf01>it's the same of the desktop resolution
14:47<Wolf01>it does have a size instead
14:47<Wolf01>and the sized can be easily changed by resizing it with the mouse or clicking to the [] button
14:48<the_bat>guys how to run the server with north american renewal set 2??? I repeat the question?
14:48<Wolf01>s/sized/size
14:48<@Belugas>you put it in config, you run the server and it appears
14:49<@Belugas>the_bat, you might want to try with different dates
14:49<@Belugas>just to rule out the dates problem
14:49<@Belugas>s
14:50<the_bat>when I start single player It's work with date 1838 and I can build trains but on multi the official start point 1850 won't work :-/
14:50<@Belugas>we know, you told us already
14:50<@Belugas>and it does not make sens
14:51<the_bat>what kind of problem is with start date in multi player game ?
14:51<@Belugas>none
14:51<@Belugas>that's why it does not make sens
14:51<Wolf01>there are some mystic things on computer's world which don't make sense...
14:52-!-insulfrog [~trainslov@92.22.181.18] has joined #openttd
14:52<the_bat>If I add an grf to list it work's everywhere am I right?
14:52<@Belugas>the_bat, it could be as stupid as the fact yu are running two differnt configurations
14:54<the_bat>I have two installations on separate folders and with one openttd.cfg ;-))))
14:54-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1F1D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:54<the_bat>is this fine?
14:55<Wolf01>whare's the openttd.cfg?
14:55<Wolf01>if it is in the documents & settings folder it can be used from both the installations
14:55<the_bat>It's windows vista installation so it is in user directory
14:55<Wolf01>ok
14:56<Wolf01>and no other openttd.cfg on the game folder?
14:56<the_bat>hmmm... wait I check it
14:57<Wolf01>maybe the installation you use as server
14:58<the_bat>is the server installation?
14:59<the_bat>I get game from download link 0.6.3
14:59<the_bat>I set the grfs
14:59<the_bat>and start the multiplayer game
14:59<the_bat>run... the server
14:59<the_bat>generate map
14:59<the_bat>and ....
14:59<the_bat>no trains at 1850 ! :-/
15:00<Wolf01>uhm..
15:00<Wolf01>the grf status?
15:01<the_bat>In single player works fine
15:01<Wolf01>run the server with the grf loaded and check if the grf is loaded when you're playing
15:01<@Belugas>did you advertized the server? meaning it's available to join?
15:02<Wolf01>with loaded I mean no warnings or red status
15:03<the_bat>I set internet server I must do something else ?
15:03<@Belugas>telll us which server it is
15:03-!-insulfrog [~trainslov@92.22.181.18] has left #openttd []
15:04<the_bat>the bat :-)))
15:04<the_bat>U see it???
15:04<Sacro>Sacro :-)))
15:04<Prof_Frink>orudge :-(((
15:05<@Belugas>i don't
15:06<the_bat>damn I'm behind the NAT :-/
15:08-!-GoneWacko [~GoneWacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:08-!-GoneWacko [~GoneWacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
15:08-!-mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
15:10<the_bat>damn it .... when I load the grf it should work in single and multiplayer games ! why it doesn'work on multiplayer.... maybe I must something write in openttd.cfg???
15:10<@orudge>Prof_Frink :ooo
15:10<@Belugas>the_bat: it does for everyone but you, so i guess it must be something on your side
15:11<@Belugas>now as to what it is...
15:11-!-mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
15:11<the_bat>is the special game versions for the servers?
15:12<@Belugas>Wolf01 asked you about what you see on the grf config in game on the server, wyou have not answered
15:12<the_bat>how to check the grf status when the server is runing ? :-)
15:12<@Belugas>like waht you do during single player...
15:13<@Belugas>grf status window
15:14<the_bat>oh yes I see it everything is ok
15:15-!-mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:15<the_bat>the status is ok but the game .... without trains :-/
15:16<the_bat>and I see... on single player too :-/
15:17<the_bat>I have only general tram set and american renewal
15:18-!-mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:19<Wolf01>/sito OTTD_related/check_grf_status.PNG
15:19-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-143-23.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
15:19<Wolf01>check this
15:19<Wolf01>mmmh
15:19<Wolf01>stupid script
15:19*Wolf01 http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/check_grf_status.PNG
15:20<the_bat>I have >> Icons
15:21<the_bat>I have yellow ">>" icons like on the dvd pilot forward >>
15:21<Wolf01>I use a different grf set
15:22<the_bat>I see nice stations :-)
15:22<the_bat>and different version
15:22<the_bat>:-)
15:23<the_bat>now I can't run the game on single player at 1850 :-/
15:23<the_bat>yesterday I play on that date
15:24<the_bat>why sometiemes the start date won't work correct :-/
15:24<@Belugas>there is a certain random as to when the vehicles start to appear
15:25<@Belugas>but in yur case, i do not know if it applies
15:26<the_bat>I delete and reload the grfs again and nothing :-/
15:27<the_bat>on single player too
15:27<the_bat>but I have yesterday save game :-)
15:28<the_bat>It's not the exclamation of the problem
15:28<the_bat>:-)
15:29<the_bat>damn ... no trais
15:31<Wolf01>2 hours of discussion and at the end it was an "open eyes dream" :D
15:32-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:32-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
15:34-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:35<@Belugas>sniff sniff
15:35<Prof_Frink>Belugas: Put the glue down
15:36<the_bat>send me u openttd.cfg ;-)
15:36-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
15:36<the_bat>ok I get nightly build openttd :-)
15:37<the_bat>like u have
15:37-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:37<the_bat>wolf
15:38-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
15:39<Wolf01>the cfg doesn't matter
15:39-!-MapperOG [~MapperOG@p57B2DC7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:40<the_bat>maybe it's VISTA! %^%#^$@# :-)
15:41<@Belugas>yeah right...
15:41<@Belugas>like... there's no one with vista who can play ;)
15:46-!-Ammler is now known as PublicServer
15:48-!-PublicServer is now known as Ammler
15:48-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd
15:49<the_bat>I think it's problem with 0.6.3 and vista the nightly build works fine
15:49-!-welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone
15:51-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:53-!-Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
15:53<@petern>Wait, you're trying to use NARS2 in 0.6.3?
15:53<Nite_Owl>!logs
15:53<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
15:54<ln>http://beardless.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/21/21bc408129ead4a7424358d2e4d424eee95fd258.jpg
15:55-!-tba [~bart.mous@94-40-44-2.tktelekom.pl] has joined #openttd
15:57<tba>0.6.3 won't work with vista and north american renewal set NARS 2.0
15:57<@petern>Wrong.
15:57<tba>nightly build work as it could :-)
15:57<@petern>http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=NARS_Required_and_Recommended_Patch_settings
15:59<Nite_Owl>In: Now that was funny
15:59<@petern>Who's "In" ?
16:00<@Rubidium>petern: the guy you and me are ignoring and Nite_Owl's misspelling
16:00<Nite_Owl>oops - looked like In instead of ln
16:00<Prof_Frink>petern: Pietersen and Flintoff.
16:00<@petern>Odd, my ignorelist is empty.
16:00-!-tba [~bart.mous@94-40-44-2.tktelekom.pl] has quit []
16:00<Nite_Owl>Depends on the font I guess
16:03<the_bat>north american renewal set 2.0 needs newest version than 0.6.3 LOL :-)))) 2 HOURS OF DISCUSSION LOL
16:03<Nite_Owl>Arial = Capital I and lower case l look the same
16:03<Prof_Frink>faiI.
16:07<@SmatZ>world with ln in the ignore list is so nice...
16:09*SmatZ cleans his ignore list
16:09<@SmatZ>*empties
16:15-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@g230128176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
16:15-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g230128176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:15-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
16:22-!-Htx^Lapto [~harteex@84-217-100-185.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #openttd
16:24<Htx^Lapto>yo, just a quick question.. I wanted to change the direction on a road but missed to stop the vehicles... is there any way to solve this situation?
16:24<Htx^Lapto>http://harteex.kicks-ass.net/openttd.jpg
16:25<Htx^Lapto>i can't make them turn around or build new roads to the affected vechicles as there are vehicles "in the way"... I don't seem to be able to change direction of the tiles with vehicles on them either
16:25<@SmatZ>hahahaahaahah
16:26<Nite_Owl>Send them to the depot
16:26<Htx^Lapto>it says it can't find local depot
16:26<Prof_Frink>Htx^Lapto: You don't need oneway on every tile
16:26<Htx^Lapto>thanks for your compassion btw ;)
16:26<Htx^Lapto>ok
16:26<Htx^Lapto>guess I'll have to load an old save :/
16:27<Prof_Frink>You can't even send in a train for a mercy killing
16:27<@petern>Can you not remove the oneway bits if a vehicle is on them?
16:27<Htx^Lapto>no
16:27<Prof_Frink>openttd needs cht:deleteveh or whatever it was
16:27<@SmatZ>Htx^Lapto: they aren't deadlocked, are they?
16:28<Htx^Lapto>i guess they are, I really can't do anything with them
16:29<@SmatZ>weird :-/
16:29<Htx^Lapto>it says can't build road when I try to change direction
16:30<Htx^Lapto>i don't really think it would be a problem to allow that, if the truck has entered the tile, just wait to apply the rule to it when it enters a new tile or something
16:30<@SmatZ>can you post a savegame? I couldn't reproduce that
16:31<Htx^Lapto>sure
16:32<Htx^Lapto>btw the depot in the image is quite misleading as i built it after the problem arose... so it's not connected to the road as there were vehicles on the road
16:33<@petern>SmatZ ... it's laughably easy to reproduce that.
16:33<Htx^Lapto>http://harteex.kicks-ass.net/htxsave.sav
16:34<Htx^Lapto>I could always file a suggestion in the bug tracker... i'm already registered there anyway. If you want.
16:36-!-last_evolution [~last_evol@host044.keli.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:36<Prof_Frink>petern! NewIgnoreOneWayButtonForRoadVehicles!
16:36<@petern>NewProf_FrinkGetMeABeer!
16:37<Prof_Frink>http://beeroverip.org
16:40-!-fonso [~fonso@brln-d9bacd60.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
16:41-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
16:51*glx likes the disclaimer
16:51-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke]
16:54-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
16:56-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:56-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
16:57<fjb>Btw, why do most people put one way raod signs at every tile? You see that on almost every screenshot.
16:58<Prof_Frink>Because they are silly.
16:58<fjb>Most annoying in multiplayer games. You can connect nothing to that roads.
17:01-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:03-!-the_bat [~bart.mous@94-40-44-2.tktelekom.pl] has quit []
17:03-!-fonso [~fonso@brln-d9bacd60.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org]
17:08-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
17:22-!-mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:29<@SmatZ>petern: I tried once to reproduce, and I failed...
17:45<Ammler>fjb: there is a chat option on MP servers.
17:45<Ammler>you can ask other player, if they need to change something.
17:45<Ammler>s
17:46-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: Operator, give me an exit]
17:49<fjb>When the player is not online...?
17:50<Ammler>and the company passworded?
17:50<Ammler>else speak with the admin
17:53<fjb>Annoying when that player is the admin...
17:53<Sacro>@seen Tekky
17:53<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Tekky was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 19 hours, 13 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <Tekky> ccfreak2k: lol :)
17:53<Sacro>hmm
17:54<Ammler>fjb: then don't play on such servers;-)
17:55<Ammler>signals on every 2. tile is needed for high traffic network
17:55<fjb>No. :-)
17:55<Ammler>well, you could also use around 10 lines parallel
17:55<Ammler>do you like that more?
17:56<fjb>You could use reasonably long trains.
17:56<Ammler>still
17:57<Ammler>you should play a coop game, then you know, it is needed :P
17:57<fjb>And spread the traffic, not evrything to the same factory.
17:57<Ammler>that is the same like mutliple lines
17:58<Ammler>I don't like those p2p networks
17:58<Ammler>or even not-networks.
17:58<Ammler>just single lines everywhere...
17:58<fjb>You don't have to do that either. You can spread traffic over a network.
17:59<Ammler>yeah, of course.
17:59<Ammler>well, long time ago, my last single game.
18:01<Ammler>I should do that again was nice, as I had the server for tt-ms.de
18:01-!-Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fee4df00-82.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:01<Ammler>then I use mostly 4 tile gaps
18:03<fjb>Oh, just doubled the lenght of the gaps.
18:03<Aali>I can't so much look at a 3 tile signal gap without fixing it :/
18:03<Ammler>it's like a compromis :-)
18:04<Aali>2 tile gap is the only thing that looks "right" in my mind :P
18:04<Brianetta>yuck
18:04<Brianetta>I use long blocks
18:04<Brianetta>My preset for dragging is 9 tiles
18:04<Brianetta>sometimes they're even longer
18:05-!-Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fee4df00-82.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
18:06<Aali>Brianetta: isn't that just horribly inefficient though?
18:07<Brianetta>Define horrible
18:07<Brianetta>and we'll discuss
18:07<fjb>That has the advantage that you don't have to worry about jams at bridges or tunnels.
18:07<Brianetta>Long signal blocks let my trains really stretch their legs
18:07<Brianetta>and I like to build realistic lines
18:07<Aali>but you can't have as many trains
18:08<fjb>Make the trains longer.
18:08<Brianetta>I'm one of the few players who knows, to an integer value, how many trains his lines can handle.
18:09<Brianetta>My play style is reserved and low key. My track work pleases me, and watching the trains on it keeps me entertained for hours.
18:09<Aali>ah, see, there it is, i dont care much for realistic networks
18:09<Brianetta>Also, my trains never get jammed.
18:09<Brianetta>And by never, I mean, never.
18:10<Brianetta>You should see the tight tricks I can accomplish without PBS
18:11<Ammler>well, if I would use only 1-2 trains per line, I am sure, my network won't jam, too. :P
18:12-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
18:12<Ammler>hmm, need to check your save again, but I have in mind, it jams :-)
18:12<Ammler>(the demo for Brianetta style)
18:12<Brianetta>http://ppcis.org/standard/saves/0.6.2-2008-09-05.sav
18:13<Brianetta>I'm company 6 (brown)
18:13<Ammler>I have no pc which can run ottd currently :-(
18:13<Aali>interesting
18:14<Aali>i'll check it out
18:14<Aali>nice
18:14<Aali>that just crashed ottd
18:14<Brianetta>I'm running my demo save in fast forward
18:14<Brianetta>Let's see how quickly it jams, eh?
18:15<Ammler>sometimes a train has to wait before he can enter a station
18:15<Ammler>it
18:15<Brianetta>Waiting is NATURAL
18:15<Aali>Reason: !Disconnecting road vehicle.
18:15<Brianetta>omg
18:15<Brianetta>waiting at a red signal
18:15<Aali>and i'm using 0.6.2
18:15<Brianetta>what a catastrophe
18:15<Brianetta>That's not a jam
18:15<Aali>whats up with that?
18:15<Ammler>lol
18:15<Ammler>well never mind.
18:16<Brianetta>a jam is where you train ultimately has to wait for itself, and requires user intervention
18:16<Ammler>I know, my logic is different...
18:16<Brianetta>I see it on my server all the time
18:16<Brianetta>trains all waiting, jammed in deadlock, profit graph floored
18:16<Brianetta>player eventually joins
18:16<Aali>well, that savegame just wont load
18:16<Brianetta>"oh crap, when did this happen?"
18:16<Brianetta>"last night"
18:17<Brianetta>Aali: You need the newgrfs is it's the one I pasted a URI to
18:17<Ammler>Aali: maybe a issue with grfs
18:17<Brianetta>http://ppcis.org/standard/grfs.zip
18:17<Brianetta>Those are compatible, but you'll also need Blunck's ones
18:17<Aali>you'd think it'd say missing grf or something, but okay
18:18<Ammler>well, check the grfs, there could also be different versions.
18:18<Brianetta>Ammler: Off-line, it'll load different versions
18:18<Brianetta>assuming them to be compatible
18:18<Ammler>that is the problem
18:18<Aali>yep, works now
18:18<Ammler>because of that, it can crash
18:19<Chrill>Brianetta, I have finished the final touches of my scenario, also adding a new island
18:19<Chrill>Any spanish-speaking person will giggle at several town names! :O
18:19<Chrill>I believe I have also finished settings well
18:19<Chrill>will go through it, then send to you
18:19<Ammler>because some devs forget to change GRFID, if the GRF is not downwards compatible anymore
18:19<Ammler>like ISR
18:20<Brianetta>cool, Chrill
18:20<Brianetta>Ammler: Each author only gets 10,000 IDs.
18:20<Brianetta>They don't want to use them all up.
18:21<Brianetta>oh wait, they're hex
18:21<Brianetta>They only get 65,000 odd IDs
18:21<Aali>Brianetta: looks kinda like my latest SP game, except i have 3x the number of trains on the same amount of tracks :P
18:21<Ammler>well, the first 2 bytes should be used for coder "id"
18:21<Ammler>the 3. is the GRF and the last the version
18:22<Ammler>so a coder has 255 steps for his GRF
18:22<Brianetta>Aali: Do your networks ever jam?
18:23<Aali>it hasn't jammed yet, but then again its only 1963
18:24<Aali>there is some potential for jams where two junctions are a little bit too close to each other
18:24<Aali>fortunatly, one of them is low-traffic for now
18:25-!-Htx^Lapto [~harteex@84-217-100-185.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Quit: Bye]
18:25<Ammler>well, that is really a bad thing of ISR, it isn't downwards compatible on every step, why is that so difficult
18:25<Aali>i am playing with breakdowns, but with the realistic breakdowns patch, so that hasn't really caused me any trouble
18:29<Nite_Owl>Do they not change the station ID's on every major release of ISR which is what breaks the compatibility with previous versions
18:45<Brianetta>Is the wiki down?
18:47<Nite_Owl>Main page is down too
18:50<Ammler>Nite_Owl: yes, they do :-(
18:56<fjb>They only change some IDs to save sprites. And ISR is still work in progress.
19:00<Chrill>Brianetta, see your inbox tt-forums
19:02<Brianetta>cool
19:02<Brianetta>next game, etc
19:15-!-Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:16-!-Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:16-!-Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has quit []
19:17-!-Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
19:18-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:18-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5EC50.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
19:20-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
19:22<Ammler>fjb: as it made other GRFs officially obsolete, you can say, it is final
19:22<Ammler>and since version (0.6)
19:22<Ammler>things now are "addons"
19:22<Ammler>and should not break the save games anymore.
19:23<fjb>Everything that is beta instead of alpha is a release? You should work for a software company.
19:23<Ammler>heh?
19:24<fjb>ISR is still under development. It is not complete even if it contains more than other grfs.
19:24<Ammler>it replaced officially the harbour and and jcind or how that is called.
19:25<Ammler>openttd is also still under development
19:25<Ammler>but you can load older save games with trunk.
19:26<fjb>Not every piece of software out there is fully backward compatible. That is even true for a major OS.
19:26<Wolf01>With ISR you can too, but you should first manually convert all stations to the standard style
19:26<fjb>And the harbour grf is very incomplete.
19:27<Ammler>Wolf, I like the foobarway more
19:27<Ammler>or wallyweb
19:27<Wolf01>which is? new game?
19:28<Ammler>no
19:28<fjb>Maybe you prefer that way. But it is your choice to use ISR or not. And nobody forces you to always use the latest version of ISR.
19:28<Ammler>just replace the tiles which have changed.
19:28-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #openttd []
19:29<fjb>Or still use the version you started the game with.
19:29<Ammler>that is the way we use.
19:29<Wolf01>I'll take less time to convert all the tiles to original stations and then back again with the new version, so I'll might build better layouts
19:29<Ammler>ne need to keep every version because of that for our game archive.
19:30<Ammler>I only know one other GRF which has this "issue": Moderntrams
19:30<fjb>Moderntrams is hardly in alpha state.
19:31<Ammler>well, don't take me wrong.
19:31<fjb>be glad you get that that grfs. Other authers keep their grfs in private till they are perfect.
19:31-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:31<Ammler>maybe it is really complicated to keep the sprites
19:32<Wolf01>oh, I think I'll go to bed... night boys
19:32<Ammler>night Wolf01
19:32-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
19:32<Ammler>fjb: indeed, that is of course better
19:32<Ammler>:-)
19:33<Ammler>but maybe they should have stopped release after 0.6
19:33<Ammler>and the make the final release.
19:33-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad103c8.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:33-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad103c8.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
19:34-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
19:34<fjb>You are free to stay with 0.6 as your final release.
19:35<fjb>Or wait till 1.0 comes out.
19:35<Ammler>:-P
19:35<fjb>Nobody forces you to take every step.
19:35<Ammler>then how can I stop others to use them with my saves?
19:37<fjb>How are the others related to your saves?
19:37<Ammler>and we somehow guaranteed the authors to use the newest grf.
19:38<fjb>And that forces you to change the grfs in mid game?
19:39<Ammler>no
19:39<Ammler>we never change the pack on a running game
19:39<Ammler>well, don't say never...
19:39<Ammler>the problem is that it crashes the client if you load old games.
19:40<fjb>So waht is your problem?
19:40<Ammler>yes, there are poeple using our archive.
19:41<Ammler>it not really a problem, but a glitch :-)
19:41<fjb>OpenTTD will recognize that an older version is used in the game.
19:41-!-welshdra-gone is now known as welshdragon
19:41<Ammler>and you have to trash the save
19:41<Ammler>because the older grf is not available anymore
19:41<Ammler>if we wouldn't keep those.
19:42<fjb>And how would a different ID change that problem?
19:43<Ammler>then the GRF would not load
19:43<fjb>Using a different ID magically keeps the old grfs around forever?
19:43<Ammler>it is like you would not have it in your data folder
19:43<Ammler>why?
19:43<fjb>And now the person loading the grf gets a warning that a grf changed.
19:44<Ammler>you can also keep grfs with same id forever
19:44<Ammler>no, not a warning
19:44<Ammler>the client crashes
19:44<Ammler>well, you can see it as warning, too.
19:44<fjb>He can load the save and then manually correct the stations. With a changing ID the save would be completly useless.
19:45<Ammler>but you have no idea which grf makes that crash
19:45<fjb>When the client crashes that is a bug in OpenTTD. Loading a GRF should never crash OpenTTD.
19:45<Ammler>:-)
19:46<Ammler>well, hmm
19:46<fjb>Thats like blaming the auther of a text for using an unexpected charset when your textprocessor crashes.
19:46<Ammler>i guess, the client does automatically pause and gives a warning if you unpause
19:47<fjb>OpenTTD interprets the code in the GRF. If the GRF crashes the interpreter then the interprter is buggy.
19:47<Ammler>well, OpenTTD is also not 1.0 :-P
19:47<fjb>So make an entry on flyspray about the crash.
19:48<Ammler>we talked too long about that
19:48<fjb>How do you expect OpenTTD to get fixed if you don't report the bug?
19:48<Ammler>the glitch is not worth it.
19:48<Ammler>OpenTTD don't have to fix it
19:49<fjb>A crash of the client is no glitch, it is a bug.
19:49<Ammler>ISR should just use another ID, if they vreak compatiblity
19:49<Ammler>they did once
19:50<fjb>And then the next grfs shows up that is not in a stable condition and changes without changing the ID. And you start to complain again.
19:50<fjb>And you always have to use the latest and newest grfs ofcourse.
19:50<Ammler>of course
19:51<Ammler>sorry, but ISR is no beta anymore
19:51<fjb>You decided that?
19:51<Ammler>no they
19:51<Ammler>I read that nowhere
19:53<Ammler>:-D
19:53<fjb>So a piece of software has a version number of 0.x and changes every few weeks and that is no hint to you that it is still under havy development and no stable release?
19:53<Ammler>well, we should really stop it :-)
19:54<fjb>Better for your arguments.
19:54<Ammler>nah :P
19:54<Ammler>we just have different opinions
19:55<Ammler>I like ISR btw, too
19:55<fjb>Did you ever talk to the ISR authors about changing the ID?
19:56<Ammler>they changed it from 0.3 to 0.4 or 5 because of that reason
19:56<fjb>And that was the same coder?
19:56<Ammler>xes
19:56<Ammler>maedhros did it until 0.3
19:57<fjb>Complaining here changes nothing. Talk to the authors. Maybe they only need to get reminded about changing the ID.
19:59<Ammler>well, I dd recognize it too late
19:59<Ammler>with 0.7
19:59<fjb>When changing from 0.6 to 0.7? As far as I know the incompatibility was well documented.
20:01<Ammler>yes, but I wasn't aware of the crashes at that time
20:02<fjb>The crashes are a bug in OpenTTD.
20:02-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
20:02<Ammler>well, OpenTTD does handle it with "autopause", afaik
20:02<Ammler>not sure, would need to load it again.
20:03<fjb>If your javacode crashes the java vm the java vm has a bug. Same with a Basic or Perl interprter.
20:04<Ammler>fjb: OpenTTD would support it, if they would change the ID :-)
20:04<Ammler>but maybe it is better they don't
20:05<Ammler>as you can send all trains to depot and then fis the stations
20:05<fjb>When the game crashes that is always a bug, independend of what you did to crash it.
20:05<Ammler>less work as replace all stations
20:05<Ammler>the red box tells you, that it might crash
20:05<fjb>And the incompatibility was always only a few sprites.
20:06<Ammler>no idea
20:06<Ammler>I fixed with using our svn archive and loaded the old GRF :-)
20:06<fjb>The red box warns for unexpected behaviour of the game, not crashing it. That is a bug in the GRF loader.
20:11-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-143-23.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:14-!-dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:22-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g230128176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"]
20:25-!-earlofsandwich [~liam.cokl@203-214-127-74.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
20:32-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F34.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
20:33-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77BC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
20:34-!-Baem [~mm@p578b6f24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20:34-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:38-!-FR^2 [fr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:39-!-xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd
20:49-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1F1D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:57-!-Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:59-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:02-!-mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: [FATAL] Client error: Memory leak - More RAM needed. More! More! More!]
21:14-!-fjb_ [~frank@p5485C53C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
21:18-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FFDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:21-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:39-!-fjb_ [~frank@p5485C53C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
22:00-!-Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet513.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:10-!-xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.]
22:11-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:22-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
22:22-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd []
22:22-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
22:27-!-Sacro|Mobile [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:32-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:34-!-Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:38-!-Sacro|Mobile [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:44-!-glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye]
23:01-!-elmex_ [~elmex@e180065205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
23:05-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:06-!-elmex [~elmex@e180066037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:06-!-elmex_ is now known as elmex
23:36-!-Aali_ [~aali@84-217-21-214.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #openttd
23:38-!-Aali [~aali@84-217-21-151.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:39-!-Aali_ is now known as Aali
23:41-!-Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
---Logclosed Sat Oct 04 00:00:01 2008