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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-10-05

---Logopened Sun Oct 05 00:00:36 2008
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05:03<Alberth>good morning Wolf01
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05:33<@petern>TrueBrain, you have scripting language experience...
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05:48<Alberth>Always nice when people state such things as fact :)
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06:46<TrueBrain>petern: tnx, I guess ...
06:47<@petern>I'm looking to do something with one :)
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06:47<@petern>So I wanted to steal your knowledge.
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06:48<@petern>Looking at Lua but it seems the API is different between 5.0 and 5.1...
06:48<@petern>Which is a bit odd.
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06:50<TrueBrain>lua is the first scripting language which can be embedded in an application, without it leaking memory, or using a lot of memory
06:50<TrueBrain>which is amazing :)
06:51<Chrill>no brianetta's
07:01<@petern>Crap, my config is all wrong for 0.6.3...
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07:15<TrueBrain>KDE 4.1 has its bugs, so it seems ...
07:15<TrueBrain>My desktop is at 1024x768, while my screen is at 1280x1024 ...
07:16<TrueBrain>pretty annoying ...
07:16<TrueBrain>you can't move most of the widgets, so it seems ... pretty annoying :(
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07:16<DJNekkid>-1 * 0 00 00 \b1 01 \b*14 1A \b*8503 // BDVmot w/mail This should set the vehicle with ID 14 in front of 8503 ... right?
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07:19<DJNekkid>hi fjb
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>i found KDE 4 way too unmatured
07:19<Ammler>TrueBrain: still 3.5 here.
07:20<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I start to have the same feeling ..
07:20<TrueBrain>whoho, OpenTTD in 1m15, that is a lot faster ... :)
07:20<TrueBrain>I think I will downgrade now, as there are too many bugs ... and just install compiz for the same visual effects :p
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07:24<welshdragon>fuco's away nick is kinda offensive
07:26<TrueBrain>Only if you have a REALLY dirty mind ... :s
07:26<welshdragon>which i do
07:27*welshdragon hides
07:27<TrueBrain>which is your problem
07:27<welshdragon>yeah, i know
07:28<welshdragon>i blame my friends
07:28<Chrill>regarding new websitE: I cannot find the old scenarios that could be found there, incl. the Africa scenario?
07:29<Chrill>are these nowhere to be found, or do I simply fail? :P
07:30<@Rubidium> ?
07:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: and aren't they embedded in latest release, you said?
07:39<TrueBrain>idiotic KDE4 ... brr
07:39<TrueBrain>also, idiotic debian, for that matter
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07:40<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: old scenarios implies (for me at least) pre 0.5 scenarios
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07:41<TrueBrain>k ;)
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07:51<Chrill>well, Africa is pre 0.5 afaik
07:52<Alberth>Can NETWORK_REVISION_LENGTH be increased? My HG revision text ("h106e41b1M-merge_options") doesn't fit and I get strecpy() messages.
07:53<@Rubidium>Alberth: no
07:54<Alberth>k, we should chop off the last part I guess
07:54<@Rubidium>strecpy does that
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07:56<Alberth>but it reports that it is doing that when debug is on, and gives an error (I think, looking at the code) if debug is off. I see little value in that message in this case
07:57<Alberth>I'd prefer that this happens silently
07:59<@Rubidium>better this way than the way it was before
08:00<Alberth>definitely! :)
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09:35<Alberth>should we extend the 'difficulty_level' with values from advanced settings?
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09:46<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but it needs serious reworking of the difficulty system
10:03<Ammler>Alberth: example?
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10:05<Alberth>"Allow removal of more town-owned roads, bridges, etc" setting influences difficulty of the game imho
10:06<Phantasm>Yes and no.
10:06<Phantasm>It is more of a realism setting. Depending on how it is interpret... In real life a bit company can do lots of stuff inside a city, as long as it makes everything back to same or better. Of course so that it won't affect too much.
10:07<Alberth>ok, this one then: "Weight multiplier for freight to simulate heavy trains"
10:08<Phantasm>It could actually make things easier.. Given hard enough conditions, no matter how they are done, the AI will never ever survive. Thus, no competition. ;P
10:08<Phantasm>But yea, increasing that does increase difficulity somewhat.
10:09<Alberth>Max number of competitors is already a difficulty setting :)
10:10<Phantasm>Yea, but if you make the conditions so hard, that all AIs just die, it is effectively 0 AIs with 7 set.
10:11<Alberth>I guess we can debate what a difficulty setting is and what not.
10:11<Alberth>(and probably never reach agreement)
10:13<Alberth>I was moving the difficulty window to a page in the advanced setting window, and have some trouble deciding where to put the difficulty buttons (easy, medium, hard, custom).
10:20<Swallow>I think most of the current difficulty settings can either be removed or moved to one of the existing advanced settings pages
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10:23<Alberth>Moving the difficulty settings is the easy part (although it creates some havoc in the language files). I guess we should keep the difficulty levels, so I need to make room for them in the advanced settings window. Also the high score button needs a new place.
10:24<@Rubidium>almost all settings (that are stored in the savegame) influence difficulty
10:24<Alberth>I'd agree
10:24<@Rubidium>even the size of the map
10:25<Alberth>so you want to have a larger set of settings controlled by the difficulty_level?
10:26<@Rubidium>most of the settings are of the boolean kind, so what is easy, medium and hard?
10:27<@Rubidium>why really bother anyway?
10:27<Phantasm>Well, there could be a difficulity number.. With every thing contributing to it.
10:27<Phantasm>Instead of 3 fixed difficulities.
10:28<@Rubidium>those should be seen as merely defaults for the "noobs"
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10:29<Alberth>one could eg do 'false' for the first two difficulty levels, and 'true' for the third setting.
10:29<@Rubidium>but what is difficult?
10:30<@Rubidium>take for example gradual loading
10:30<@Rubidium>what setting is most easy?
10:31<Alberth>I was typing that 'difficulty' is highly ambigious :) , so indeed it makes no sense imho to spend a large amount of time to it or attempt to fold everything into a single number.
10:33<Alberth>Phantasm: Maybe we should give the player the remains of the AI when it goes bankrupt ,including its debt. Now that would make things difficult :D
10:33<Phantasm>Alberth: Haha.
10:33<@Rubidium>gradual loading CANNOT be classified with: true = easy, false = hard, because true and false are both easy and hard (depending on the vehicle length, loading amounts etc)
10:35<Swallow>In any case, I think it's impossible to accurately measure difficulty as NewGRFs can influence it in almost any way.
10:37<Alberth>Rubidium: We cannot even agree on how we should play the game (which is good, imho), so a single 'difficulty' concept just won't do. Expanding it a bit is useless due to ambiguity of the concept, as you said. Expanding it a lot is very much work, and not really useful even if it is possible.
10:37<Alberth>Aka: leave it as it is
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10:43<Swallow>In an ideal world I'd merge everything to the advanced settings window and add a preset system like NewGRF presets
10:43<Swallow>With a few pre-supplied presets for easy/medium/hard
10:44<yorick>you mean we don't have newgrf presets currently?
10:45<Swallow>I mean a preset system, similar to newgrf presets, for the advanced settings
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10:47<Ammler>I like that idea, too.
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10:54<khizer>hi i need some help regarding smallmap_gui
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11:00<Doorslammer>Good for you :P
11:00<Doorslammer>Do come again :D
11:00<yorick>hehe, no toyland servers online
11:01<Doorslammer>Killed the evil at last, yes?
11:01<yorick>only 6,7 % with arctic
11:02<yorick>8.43% of total amount of clients could be online
11:05<yorick>niceties such as cindini should be forbidden
11:14<@petern>Who what?
11:15<@petern>I know what it is, but, forbidden?
11:16<yorick>too nice
11:18<Alberth>you cannot start a transport service in it, it would mess up the scene too much
11:19<yorick>even letting it run messes up the scene
11:19<yorick>the towns will grow
11:19<yorick>and flatten the landscape
11:20<yorick>and ruin the niceties
11:24<yorick>bad idea
11:24*yorick just overwrote nice 64*64 testing save with 2048*2048 cindini map
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11:28<Eddi|zuHause2>what exactly is so special about this cindini map?
11:29<yorick>it is nice
11:33<yorick>spam detected
11:33<Tefad>hmm indeed. i thought i was in another channel : x
11:37<Eddi|zuHause2>wtf adds ".doc" files in a forum?
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11:42<@petern>It's not that nice...
11:43<@petern>It has some map-bugs too :)
11:43<@petern>"New Now Know How"
11:43<@petern>w/w :o
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11:44<Eddi|zuHause2>i never understood what that phrase means
11:44<@petern>Who does?
11:46<Ammler>bug like?
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11:52<Ammler>default real name for chatzilla clients
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11:57<@petern>Yes, it is.
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13:24<Chrill>Sacro wouldnt know where brianetta is?
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13:31<@SmatZ> is this a coincidence?
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13:31<+glx>it is
13:32<@SmatZ>unbelievable :)
13:32<@Rubidium>no, I waited till that number ;)
13:32<@SmatZ>haha :)
13:33<TrueBrain>idiotic KDE4 .. more bugs than working features ... :(
13:34<FR^2>That bad?
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>i found it basically unuseable, because of all the annoyances
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>but that was with KDE 4.0, it hopefully improved since then ;)
13:36<TrueBrain>well ... I have 4.1 running here .. 4.1.1 to be exact ..
13:36<TrueBrain>I can't move widgets I put on the desktop .. for unknown reasons
13:36<TrueBrain>it thinks my screen is smaller than it is, so I have the taskbar somewhere in the middle
13:36<TrueBrain>when you click the wrong button, it does weird stuff
13:36<TrueBrain>and it uses a constant of 10% CPU, even if I don't do anything
13:36<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: You need more clocks.
13:37<Prof_Frink>plasma is all about clocks.
13:37<Eddi|zuHause2>well... i immediately went back to KDE 3 for my desktop, and use a few KDE 4 programs
13:38<Sacro>Chrill: not sure, warum?
13:40<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause2: well, I will install KDE3 again too soon .. just it is too bad, as I like a few things of KDE4 (of the kwin part)
13:40<TrueBrain>but okay, I am already sick of Debian too, so I need to burn a Gentoo LiveCD first :p
13:40<Prof_Frink>Gentoo? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
13:41<TrueBrain>hell yes
13:41<Eddi|zuHause2>when's KDE 4.2 due?
13:41<Prof_Frink>January or so
13:43<Eddi|zuHause2>then i might give it another try
13:43<TrueBrain>oh well ... by all :) Is going to take a while to install Gentoo I guess .. by the lack of alternative :p
13:44<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm fine with suse... i don't know what problems people have
13:44<TrueBrain>by = bye
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r14441 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-05 17:45:23
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 6 fixed by arnaullv (6)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 changed by sulai (1)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 fixed, 1 changed by alyr (2)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 6 fixed by christian (6)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 fixed by ww9980 (1)
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14:09<TrueBrain>wow, KDE3 works so much better ...
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14:27<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... in which config file do settings like the prefered shell go?
14:28<@Rubidium>depends on the flavour of Linux I reckon
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14:29<@petern>default shell is in /etc/passwd
14:29<@petern>er, s/default/user's/
14:30<Eddi|zuHause2>it's unlikely that i can change something outside /home/<user>
14:32<Prof_Frink>Bless you
14:34<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... that said it couldn't find me in /etc/passwd
14:35<Eddi|zuHause2>i should probably talk to the admins...
14:35<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: You don't exist.
14:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r14442 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14406): Typo causing problems in rare cases.
14:45<@SmatZ>TrueBrain: no nightly today?>
14:46<@SmatZ>nah ok :)
14:46<@SmatZ>just #notice is quiet
14:48<frosch123>[20:29] <DorpsGek> CompileFarm: nightly (r14441) completed. <- this time dorpsgek is not to blaim :)
14:48<frosch123>err, blame
14:48<@SmatZ>blame me
14:48<@SmatZ>overlooked that one in the translators commit :)
14:48*TrueBrain blames SmatZ
14:49<@SmatZ>yeah, good :)
14:49<@SmatZ>sorry :(
14:49*petern annotates SmatZ
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14:50*SmatZ praises himself
14:50*Prof_Frink burns #openttd
14:50<Vikthor>SmatZ: Pýcha předchází pád :p
14:51<yorick>engliszh only!
14:51<Vikthor>yeah, yeah
14:51<Eddi|zuHause2>i have not ever heard of a thing called "engliszh"
14:51<ln>Vikthor: Bízšú žowùm vûxelt.
14:52<TrueBrain>so tempting ..
14:52<TrueBrain>anyhow .. I can now connect my HDTV via HDMI to my computer .. now that is useful shit :)
14:52<TrueBrain>and I have 240 GiB of data to move from one PC to the other .... maybe I just shouldn't do it, and boot up the old machine when ever I need it ..
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14:53<TrueBrain>@kick Prof_Frink yes, we will kick you
14:53-!-Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [yes, we will kick you]
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14:53<TrueBrain>some people are so demanding these days
14:53<Prof_Frink>You could at least have rot13d the kick message
14:55<@petern>hmm, 2GB of space used...
14:55*petern shall put off getting big drives
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14:56<Eddi|zuHause2>TrueBrain: isn't it faster to just put the whole HD in the new computer?
14:57<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause2: faster, yes; useful? no .. as I would never clean it up and just continue messing it up :)\
14:58<Eddi|zuHause2>oh, i know that problem ;)
14:58<TrueBrain>hmm .. how on linux to get a screen to a secondary monitor .. hmm ...
14:58<TrueBrain>tough one ;)
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15:01<TrueBrain>something for an other day .. good night all!
15:02<@SmatZ>nn TrueBrain
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15:56<Prof_Frink>Y'what, eh?
15:59*frosch123 always liked unary numbers
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16:00<@SmatZ>nice :)
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16:03<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah... right... i always needed this, and never even knew it :p
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16:07<herojoker>are there any good introductions for getting to know the variety of NewGRFs?
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16:08<herojoker>for example a text which describes the most popular ones and perhaps additionally some personal tips etc.
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17:06<Eddi|zuHause2>herojoker: best you get the grfpack from openttdcoop, there should be a readme in it
17:06<herojoker>ok, thank you :)
17:06<herojoker>the mass of grfs is a bit overwhelming ^^
17:07<Eddi|zuHause2>well, you could just join a server using newgrfs, they should have a sensible subset of the collection enabled ;)
17:07<herojoker>especially because it's not always direclty visible whether it's a replacer or addon
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22:09<DaleStan>@seen Csab
22:09<@DorpsGek>DaleStan: I have not seen Csab.
22:09<DaleStan>@seen Csaboka
22:09<@DorpsGek>DaleStan: Csaboka was last seen in #openttd 51 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 42 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <Csaboka> I have to go, bye
22:09<DaleStan>@seen Csaba
22:09<@DorpsGek>DaleStan: Csaba was last seen in #openttd 47 weeks, 1 day, 7 hours, 5 minutes, and 1 second ago: <csaba> fullload buttton has been activated:)
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 06 00:00:51 2008