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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-10-16

---Logopened Thu Oct 16 00:00:01 2008
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---Logclosed Thu Oct 16 00:01:31 2008
---Logopened Thu Oct 16 05:11:20 2008
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05:11-!-Irssi: #openttd: Total of 87 nicks [6 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 79 normal]
05:11<TrueBrain>[ebuild N ] games-simulation/openttd-trunk-14468 USE="alsa iconv png zlib -debug -dedicated -timidity" 0 kB [1]
05:11<TrueBrain>:)
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05:12<@petern>Simulation, eh?
05:13<TrueBrain>yeah ... Gentoo put it there
05:13<TrueBrain>guess it makes sense :p
05:13<TrueBrain>more the point was that I now have a latest-nightly ebuild :)
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05:18<@petern>Typical. I compile as debug to... be able to debug something.
05:18<@petern>And it runs :o
05:19<planetmaker>petern: the reverse would be much more frustrating :)
05:19<planetmaker>Have a tea, a cookie and relax :)
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05:30<@petern>I'd rather like the packages in my OS to just work, to be honest :p
05:39<@petern>Bah, why does Ardour (a GTK+ app) feel the need to impose its own colour schemes on me? :(
05:40<TrueBrain>how do you get an application in your start menu ... :s
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05:42<@petern>What OS?
05:43<TrueBrain>linux
05:43<Gekz>rofl
05:43<Gekz>then it's not a start menu
05:43<Gekz>TrueBrain: which desktop environment
05:43<TrueBrain>call it how ever you want, I truly don't care
05:43<Gekz>?
05:43<Gekz>which DE?
05:44<TrueBrain>KDE, Gnome, don't care
05:44<TrueBrain>:)
05:44<TrueBrain>I assumed an entry in /usr/share/applications would be enough ..
05:44<Gekz>xdg-update
05:44<Gekz>update-xdg*
05:44<Gekz>probably too hardcore old
05:44<Gekz>lol
05:45<TrueBrain>both not here
05:45<Gekz>I cant remmeber
05:45<Gekz>I know theres a command to update the cache
05:45<@petern>The modern way is a .desktop entry.
05:45<TrueBrain>ah, lacks MimeType key ..
05:45<TrueBrain>update-desktop-database
05:45<Gekz>that'd do it
05:45<Gekz>yes, desktop-databaes
05:46<TrueBrain>nevertheless, it is not in my menu yet :(
05:51<Vikthor>TrueBrain: Maybe look into eutils.eclass, how they do it? (I gather you are on gentoo ...)
05:52<TrueBrain>even more, I am trying to create an ebuild :p
05:52<Gekz>ebuilds suck
05:52<Gekz>terribly
05:52<Gekz>they are so touchy
05:53<Vikthor>Well than use the functions from eutils.eclass( If you do and it does not work then sorry for stating the obvious)
05:54<TrueBrain>make_desktop_entry, I use
05:54<TrueBrain>but somehow it doens't show up
05:54<TrueBrain>and I don't get why ..
05:55<Vikthor>aha, well then sorry that's as far as I would get
05:55<TrueBrain>:(
05:55<TrueBrain>tnx for helping anyway :)
05:57<Vikthor>You are welcome
05:57<Vikthor>I am heading for lunch and to school, bye
05:58<TrueBrain>have fun!
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06:01<fjb>Hello
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06:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14472 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Fix: add docs/obg_format.txt in bundles too
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07:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14473 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Fix: also install the root .txt and COPYING files to docs/
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07:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14474 /trunk/ (Makefile.bundle.in Makefile.in config.lib): -Add: allow --binary-name to set the name of the binary, icon, desktop file, etc. when installing. Useful to get a stable next to a trunk-nightly
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07:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14475 /trunk/ (config.lib media/openttd.desktop.in): -Add: allow setting the name of the desktop item (follow-up on r14474)
07:35<planetmaker>nice features, TrueBrain :)
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07:45<TrueBrain>best of all, finally the icons work ;)
07:46<planetmaker>:P Don't care about that. But binary-name is nice :)
07:46<planetmaker>but probably most people will care about symbols :)
07:46<planetmaker>s/symbols/icons/
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08:01-!-mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ
08:01<@Celestar>hey peops.
08:02<Gekz>sups
08:02<@Celestar>could someone do the cargodest<->trunk syncing in the next 3 weeks for me? I'm a tad busy :(
08:10<A_Person>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Double_size aww this doesn't seem to work anymore
08:13<TrueBrain>poor Celestar :(
08:13<TrueBrain>hmm .. Gentoo is annoying .. openttd is hard masked, and even so I now have a ebuild that shouldn't be hard masked, I have no way to override that from an overlay ..
08:13-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
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08:15-!-emjay88 is now known as emjay
08:15<emjay>Hi!
08:15<emjay>Did anyone else notice that config.lib is broken?
08:17<Ammler>emjay: trunk?
08:17*Rubidium blames TB ;)
08:17<emjay>yes
08:18<emjay>line 2562 is missing a " at the end i beleive
08:18<TrueBrain>what is broken about it?
08:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14476 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix r14475: (no comment)
08:19<Ammler>TrueBrain: do we also have high res icon for alt-tab now?
08:20<TrueBrain>Ammler: it should
08:20<TrueBrain>emjay: tnx for reporting :)
08:20*Ammler starts compiz
08:21<emjay>no sweat
08:21<TrueBrain>Ammler: before my commit, the openttd icons were named wrong
08:21<Ammler>(in Hollywood mode)
08:21<TrueBrain>so no system understood them
08:21<TrueBrain>16x16/apps/openttd.16.png
08:21<TrueBrain>where it should be
08:21<TrueBrain>16x16/apps/openttd.png
08:23<Ammler>hmm, what do I need to do?
08:23<emjay>doesn't show an icon for me, just a little window of the game
08:23<Ammler>install ottd?
08:23<Ammler>just running ./bin/openttd
08:24<TrueBrain>install of course :)
08:24<TrueBrain>it needs to put the icons in the icons dir ;)
08:24<Ammler>has still this ugly frame with compiz
08:24<TrueBrain>but I don't know where your alt-tab stuff gets the icon from :)
08:24<TrueBrain>my start-menu now does show the icon, so I am happy :)
08:24<Ammler>it is compiz/KDE
08:25<emjay>my gnome-do shows an icon, but alt-tab doesn't
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08:26<A_Person>¤
08:26<Ammler>alt-tab shows the open windows like they are and the minimized with symbols.
08:27<emjay>i see
08:27<Ammler>but that is compiz.
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08:28<emjay>Is there any project going on to reimplement the proprietary grf files?
08:29<Ammler>did you ever visit tt-forums?
08:29<Ammler>or wiki?
08:29<emjay>well not really
08:30<@Rubidium>or the svn logs ;)
08:30<emjay>I have lurked around for a while but never saw anything related
08:30<emjay>(not in the svn logs, mind)
08:30<emjay>so I take that as yes then?
08:30<Ammler>http://www.google.ch/search?q=openttd+replacment
08:31<Ammler>happy me, google accept misspelling
08:31<blathijs>emjay: There is a project by the name of "OpenGFX", there is a huge thread about it on the graphics section of the openttd forums
08:31<@Rubidium>and an equally huge one about the license ;)
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08:32<FauxFaux>Licencewank. \o/
08:33<emjay>well, that'll learn me to ask first and research later :P
08:33<Ammler>you are able to play with openttd without any original grfs
08:33<FauxFaux>I've always wondered how playable it would be with just returning random colours if a grf that wasn't available was requested.
08:34<emjay>alright, well I'd better be off
08:34<emjay>bye all
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08:35<Ammler>FauxFaux: if you use TTRS and a decent trainset, you should have nothing missing.
08:35<@Rubidium>FauxFaux: ./openttd -b 8bpp-debug
08:40<FauxFaux>Oh, it already supports it? Cool. </at work and can't try it>
08:41<fjb>That looks funny.
08:42<fjb>Using semaphores is a big advantage in that mode. :-)
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08:49<dih>Brianetta: what you have wanted to do i have managed
08:49<dih>:-)
08:49<dih>i'll give you some code - one sec
08:55<Brianetta>what did I want to do?
08:55<ln>@seen babyottd
08:55<@DorpsGek>ln: babyottd was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 14 hours, 1 minute, and 12 seconds ago: <babyottd> Dictionary saved
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09:00<dih>Brianetta: http://paste.openttd.org/128445
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09:00<dih>you remember wanting to get the command output from the console?
09:01<dih>and having these loveley workarounds with echo doneclientcount ?
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09:01<dih>i have a similar approach and only use my thing of doneclientcount to get out of a nested expec block
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09:02<Brianetta>That works as long as nobody joins or quits in the middle of a running command
09:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14477 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Fix r14474: also name the links in the .desktop file correclty upon install
09:02<planetmaker>:P
09:02*planetmaker hands TrueBrain a cup of freshly brewed tea
09:03<Brianetta>it's basically what I'd have done if I could have been bothered.
09:03<dih>+ the -re .+?\n instead of .*\n will get me each line separately
09:04<dih>so there is no need to split the buffer on \n anymore
09:04<dih>and there is no need to worry about empy lines :-P
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09:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14478 /branches/noai/ (67 files in 8 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14450:14477
09:24<dih>nice glx :-)
09:27<fjb>Hm, the graphics card of my second pc shows the bios messages only on my tft monitor, not on the old tube monitor.
09:30<dih>fjb: that is because your tube monitor is too slow
09:30<dih>and needs time before it starts displaying a signal
09:30<dih>and a 'tube' monitor is called a crt ;-)
09:30<fjb>Too slow for showing the bios messages while booting? Is that not simple VGA?
09:30<fjb>Ok, t stand for tobe.
09:30<fjb>tube
09:31<fjb>It even doesn't show the bios when I enter the bios via del. So the monitor has time to warm up befor displaying anything.
09:33<dih>you have 2 displays connected
09:33<dih>?
09:33<fjb>I tryed it with both displays and with one at a time. Same effect.
09:34<ln>*tried
09:34<blathijs>weird
09:34<blathijs>Perhaps some fancy big screen that doesn't do text-mode?
09:34<blathijs>I hade a big 21" CRT that didn't a while back
09:35<fjb>No, simple super vga thing. Works perfectly with an old Matrox card on another pc.
09:36<fjb>But this pc has a "new" GeForce FX5200.
09:36<dih>new?
09:36<dih>and that should not be an issue
09:36<blathijs>Perhaps it thinks it can do a 200Hz refresh rate, because the resolution is so low? :-p
09:36<dih>check your bios if there are any specific video handling settings you can make
09:37<fjb>When Windows boots up I see the windows screen flying by, but that timings are to high for that monitor so it switches off.
09:37<fjb>Bios of the PC olny has AGP mode (4x, 8x) and AGP apperture size settings.
09:39<fjb>Hm, doesn't that card send sync signals anymore?
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10:00<Brianetta>[14:49] --- Ammler is now known as AmmIer
10:00<Brianetta>weird
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10:01<Brianetta>Ah, a capital I
10:01<Gekz>Brianetta: get a real font
10:01<Gekz>lol
10:01<Brianetta>There's nothign unreal about Helvetica
10:02<Gekz>it's not monospaced
10:02<Brianetta>so?
10:02<Gekz>it doesnt support lots of unicode
10:02<Brianetta>It supports it all
10:02<Gekz>it's not an irc font.
10:02<Brianetta>well, there are some languages it doesn't
10:02<Gekz>I'd like to see it render tibetan
10:02<Brianetta>but I don't speak aboriginal antartic, or whatever
10:02<Brianetta>Tibetan? They just use Chinese now (:
10:03-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
10:03<Gekz>not true
10:03<Brianetta>OK, they just use Chinese now or get shot
10:03<Gekz>not true
10:03-!-archjb_ is now known as archjb
10:03<Brianetta>OK, some evade detection
10:03<Brianetta>but China really wants to shoot them (:
10:04<Gekz>lol
10:04<Gekz>its true
10:04<Brianetta>Man, this Sudoku is hard
10:04<Sacro>Brianetta: that one is a 3 *points*
10:05<Brianetta>There are three in the Metro, a daily free paper found in UK railway stations
10:05<Brianetta>The first two I do on the train before I reach work
10:05<Brianetta>The third I often can't complete
10:06<Sacro>ahh
10:06<Sacro>scan and upload :)
10:07-!-thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd
10:08<Brianetta>http://ppcis.org/sudoku.tcl
10:08<Brianetta>wish sudoku.tcl 800200070000704030007005020009700003070209040200006700010300600020601000040002008
10:09<Brianetta>I'm not using that tool, btw
10:09<Brianetta>I'm solving it in my head, only writing down numbers in their final positions
10:09<Sacro>sh: wish: command not found
10:09<Sacro>:(
10:09<Brianetta>you need to install tcl/tk to run it
10:09<Sacro>ahh
10:09<Sacro>no wonder yaourt wish didn't find it
10:11<Brianetta>http://www.metro.co.uk/metroku
10:11<Sacro>Brianetta: whoah, awesome app
10:11<Brianetta>(:
10:11<Brianetta>I scratched an itch
10:11<Sacro>hmm
10:11<Sacro>how do i unset a number
10:12<Brianetta>haha
10:12<Brianetta>you can't
10:12<Sacro>that... fails
10:12<Brianetta>It doesn't store the sudoku
10:12<Brianetta>It just deletes the GUI elements
10:13<Sacro>ah, hmm, right
10:13<Brianetta>It's a quick and dirty
10:13<Brianetta>I wanted "sudoku like sherlock" and couldn't be bothered to do it properly
10:13<Sacro>yeah
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10:34<A_Person>Hmm, it seems from the table that it's nearly impossible to maintain a station rating of more than 79 early in the game, with stations outside of towns
10:34<A_Person>-nearly
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10:57<planetmaker>interesting: openttd: /home/openttd/svn-public/src/station_cmd.cpp:567: void UpdateStationAcceptance(Station*, bool): Assertion `(rect.right >= rect.left) == !st->rect.IsEmpty()' failed.
10:57<planetmaker>Server has exited
10:58<+glx>latest trunk ?
10:58<planetmaker>nearly latest trunk. PublicServer
10:58<planetmaker>14460
10:58<+glx>try 14469
10:58<+glx>or superior
10:59-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:59<planetmaker>right:) Thanks
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11:09<Eddi|zuHause><Brianetta> Man, this Sudoku is hard <- took me 15 minutes and 27 seconds...
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11:09<Brianetta>Eddi: Did you jot notes?
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11:10<Eddi|zuHause>in which sense do you mean?
11:10<Brianetta>Did you write anything down except numbers which you knew to be correct?
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i think i'd answer that "yes"... i write down two kinds of numbers, correct ones, and "guessed" ones, where i have two alternatives, choose one, see where it leads me, and then can roll back to the point where i guessed
11:12<Brianetta>Ah
11:12<Brianetta>I refuse to guess
11:12<Brianetta>I will find a logical deduction or I will not solve it
11:12<Brianetta>I won't use trial and error
11:13<blathijs>Isn't assuming a value and proving it inconsistent deduction as well? :-)
11:13<Brianetta>It isn't using logic
11:13<Brianetta>Bear in mind I'm doing the solving in my head
11:14<Brianetta>I can't sit there completing the game for a guess
11:14<Brianetta>then rewind and try something else
11:14<Brianetta>That's just brute-forcing it
11:14<Brianetta>I might as well feed it to a computer
11:14<blathijs>yeah, in a way
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>it's kind of a hybrid technics
11:15<Brianetta>I'm basically applying cryptography
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>it's not real brute force, because i sit there very long deducing which options could actually lead me anywhere
11:16<Brianetta>I've so far placed 14 cells
11:16<Brianetta>which is fewer than were given as clues
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>the first 10 or so are really easy...
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11:19<[com]buster>I occasionally solve a sudoku via the assumption that there must be one unique solution
11:21<A_Person>That's not always true...
11:21<@Belugas>indeed
11:22<A_Person>But he probably knows that
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>sudokus that do not have a unique solution are much more difficult to solve
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>prime example is starting with an empty sheet ;)
11:22<A_Person>Haha
11:23<A_Person>A blank sheet should be relatively easy to "solve" tho
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>have you ever tried it?
11:26<A_Person>Not really, but since there's nothing there before you can always go back a few choices and try a better pattern :D
11:26*A_Person is guessing...
11:27<planetmaker>Eddi: shift lines by three every line, every 3rd shift by 4 instead of 3
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>as Brianetta suggested, going back is not always considered a good playing style
11:27<A_Person>Pfft, style
11:28<A_Person>Going back is required if mistakes become evident :/
11:28<planetmaker>which is evidence of a flawed algorithm :P
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>and, a wrong number in the first few random placements can mean you have to roll back almost the whole game
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>there are no mistakes :p
11:29<planetmaker>yeah... the universe is deterministic :D
11:29<A_Person>Why would you... oh right, I keep forgetting
11:29<A_Person>Not everyone has a reluctance to do random choices
11:29<A_Person>I'd never put stuff randomly, heh
11:30<Brianetta>That's my only gripe with minesweeper
11:30<Brianetta>having to guess
11:30<A_Person>I remember liking minesweeper
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>how else would you start on an empty sheet?
11:30<Brianetta>top left, 1
11:30<Brianetta>next cell, 2
11:30<Brianetta>so on
11:30<planetmaker>123456789
11:30<planetmaker>456789123
11:30<A_Person>start in a corner, with one number, finish one n umber in some pattern, and proceed with next
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>the first row is completely arbitrary ;)
11:30<planetmaker>789123456
11:31<A_Person>For example
11:31<planetmaker>234567891
11:31<planetmaker>567891234
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>the sudoku structure is invariant to permutation of the numbers ;)
11:31<planetmaker>891234567
11:31<Brianetta>solving an empty one is, though, easy peasy
11:31<planetmaker>well... and so on :)
11:32<Brianetta>it only becomes difficult after ten numbers are filled in
11:32<A_Person>Which is the hunch I have, should be easy
11:32<A_Person>I should try sometime
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: well, i believe you that this attempt works, but how long does it take to find out that it works, if you knew nothing about sudokus?
11:32<A_Person>I dropped my sudoku habbit a while ago
11:33<A_Person>Never got very good at it
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11:33<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I guess pretty easy. You just need the rules and for an empty one it follows.
11:33<A_Person>Just applied some basic solving rules, I actually had to look them up, I couldn't guess a way for solving it myself
11:33<planetmaker>but hard to guess - as I did a few :)
11:33<A_Person>a rational one anyway
11:34<+glx>Brianetta: hp48 minesweeper is better
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11:35<+glx>you must go from top left to bottom right
11:35<Brianetta>I have a HP50g
11:35<A_Person>oh, heh, yo meant the first guess?
11:36<Brianetta>and it's all right, but you sometimes can't get the maximum score
11:36<Brianetta>and sometimes you start with amine or two right there
11:36<Brianetta>that involves a guess
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11:36<Brianetta>and frequently, losing the game
11:36<A_Person>I always thought that was a matter of hitting one and refreshing every time notihng came up
11:36<planetmaker>the unsolvable last tiles are nasty with minesweeper :)
11:37<Brianetta>https://tyneside.lug.org.uk/fetchfile.php?fileid=19
11:37<Brianetta>log in as guest if you need to
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, those are why i stopped playing minesweeper
11:37<Brianetta>Most versions of minesweeper cheat on the first click
11:38<Brianetta>With 90% mines in Windows minesweeper, you never hit one on the first click
11:38<+glx>I did
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: i can place 19 numbers before i get significantly stuck, in the sudoku
11:38<Brianetta>you didn't
11:39<Brianetta>Eddi: Coincidewntally, I have 19 placed
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11:40<Eddi|zuHause>most of them in the lower part
11:41<Brianetta>yeah
11:41<Brianetta>5s and 9s being pests
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>found a 20th
11:44*Brianetta is on the phone trying to converse while analysing
11:46<A_Person>The number of towns a map has remains constant throughout the game, right?
11:46<Brianetta>yes
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes
11:46<A_Person>Cool
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>off topic! :p
11:46<A_Person>Sorry, I'm trying a bit of play again
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11:47<Brianetta>20.
11:47<Brianetta>21.
11:47<HerzogDeXtEr>22.
11:47<Brianetta>you fibber, HerzogDeXtEr
11:47<A_Person>It's a race?!
11:47<HerzogDeXtEr>i dont know
11:48<DJNekkid>is it possible to have different length, same ID vehicles in a articulated consist? for example 1st part is 8/8ths, 2nd is 4/8ths, and 3rd part is 6/8ths?
11:48<Brianetta>More like mutual encouragement
11:48<DJNekkid>i.e. the CB is on a sprite basis?
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, 21
11:48<HerzogDeXtEr>ahh kay
11:48<HerzogDeXtEr>whatsoever
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>DJNekkid: i believe it is possible
11:49<DJNekkid>oki, thanx :)
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11:50<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. in the DBSetXL, the ET 87 (i think), has a long "locomotive", a short "wagon" and a long "wagon", where both wagons are of the same vehicle type. i don't see a reason why that shouldn't be possible in an articulated consist
11:51<A_Person>I better write this up before I forget forever, wiki mentions the configure patches/vehicles service interval settings should be adjustable in increments of 5 and 10, but it's really 15 in 6.3
11:52<Brianetta>15 *is* 5 and 10
11:52<A_Person>no
11:52<A_Person>it's not
11:52*Brianetta slaps A_Person with an addiator
11:52<A_Person>increments of 5 and/or 10
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11:54<DJNekkid>Eddi|zuHause: it were possible :)
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11:54<planetmaker>{15} != {5,10}, if you're talking about sets :P
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>15 is 1 and 5
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>10 and 5 would be 105
11:55<A_Person>i'm not talkikng about digits or sums
11:55<A_Person>but increments of
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>5 and 10 would be 510
11:56<Brianetta>Eddi|zuHause: 2 and 2 is 4
11:56<A_Person>wiki mentions 10 or 5 with ctrl, game version 6.3 does it with 15
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>there is also no game version 6.3
11:56<A_Person>not exactly nice for % I think
11:56<planetmaker>2+2 = 1 on on the ring of {0,1,2} :)
11:56<A_Person>0.6.3.eddi.zuhause
11:56<A_Person>That a better version?
11:57<A_Person>:P
11:57<Brianetta>Transporter 0.1
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>A_Person: the interval for changing is dependent on the minimum/maximum range for the setting, it is automatically calculated
11:58<A_Person>I hope putting signals on a rail track will affect the ability of roads o be built on it
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>A_Person: plus, you can click on the number and enter one manually
11:58<A_Person>Well, it didn't change when I switched to %
11:58<A_Person>Hmm, that's new
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>that always was there :p
11:59<A_Person>I'll have to memorise that
11:59<A_Person>I don't go randomly clicking at numbers by habbit, heh
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12:01<A_Person>woot, cool, signal track blocks road
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12:03<Brianetta>27
12:04<Brianetta>and my brain hurts
12:04<Brianetta>I'm having trouble reconstructing what I just did
12:04<Brianetta>but I'm sure it was right
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>i just found the 22nd, and that'll get me a good part forward
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>25
12:05<Brianetta>oh yeah, that's right
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>29
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>and those pesky 5/9s are gone ;)
12:06<Brianetta>I still have two unresolved at the bottom
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>at the right? i solved them first
12:06<Brianetta>ooh
12:06<Brianetta>you found a different opening
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12:07<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but it's not trivial to find ;)
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i'm too distracted now ;)
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12:10<Eddi|zuHause>30
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>34
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure the rest is easy now
12:11<Brianetta>yes (:
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>done
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12:14<Eddi|zuHause>means roughly an hour
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>can i tell you my opening now?
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12:16<Brianetta>completed; yes
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12:16<Eddi|zuHause>what i did: in the top right field
12:17<Brianetta>yeah
12:17<Brianetta>was it the 1?
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>there are 2,5,7 and a filled in 8
12:17<Brianetta>yes
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>then there are 3 options for the 4
12:17<Brianetta>yes
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>but only 2 can be valid, because the 4's form a cycle
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>so the 9 is the only option left for the bottom left cell
12:18<Brianetta>ah
12:18<Brianetta>mine was about the 1
12:18<Brianetta>It resolved as a 1 regardless of the 5 and 9 situation
12:18<Brianetta>no matter which way around I looked at the possibilities, it was always a 1
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>see, i didn't touch the 5's at all ;)
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13:29<Wolf01>hello
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13:30<Maappy>hi
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13:52<ln>http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com/2008/10/save-cheerleader-save-world.html
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>is that part of this reverse psychology campaign?
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15:19<A_Person>Glah, I'm taking so long to figure out what the max load a Kirby Paul Tank can pull at full speed is. Cursed distractions
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15:27<Muxy>Hello OTTD World !
15:27<@SmatZ>hello
15:29<Zuu>Hello Muxy ! :)
15:30<A_Person>Heh
15:31<Muxy>is there some people here that enjoy hosting OpenTTD server ?
15:31<Sacro>yah
15:31<Muxy>and also in dedicated mode
15:32<Vikthor>sure
15:33<Vikthor>!pomoc
15:33<Vikthor>sorry wrong window
15:33*Rubidium wonders what enjoying hosting openttd servers actually mean
15:34<@Rubidium>like having (on average) 0.5 players connected to your server is enjoyable?
15:36<Vikthor>For me playing with other on server I host
15:36<Vikthor>*others
15:37<frosch123>Vikthor: !password is the correct command here
15:38<Vikthor>though I dont't host any just now because I don't have any machine available, but that will change(soon, I hope)
15:38<AmmIer>looking for someone hosting our game
15:38<Vikthor>frosch123: It would be if my desire was to be kicked, in fact I was trying to find out adress of Tycoonez svn
15:39<Muxy>about those who host ottd dedicated server, do you have, somtimes players that creat company and leave without building anything ?
15:40<frosch123>Muxy: Some days ago someone (maybe Ammler) said wrt that topic, that he always joins by creating a company, so he can immediatelly start when he likes the map.
15:41<AmmIer>maybe I am not the only one :-)
15:41<Muxy>sorry ?
15:41<AmmIer>but there is a patch
15:42<AmmIer>but servers without admins sucks anyway.
15:42<Prof_Frink>Ammler: You seem to be 'ammier than usual.
15:42<frosch123>AmmIer: Did you had a discussion with In ?
15:42<Muxy>I talk about people who host server not playing ottd
15:42<AmmIer>and damin could just use reset_company.
15:42<AmmIer>frosch123: I "disabled" highlight :-)
15:43*AmmIer maybe not everyone has same font then me ;-)
15:43<Muxy>what do u think of people, instead of using the "watch game", creates a company and leave immediatly (after watching the game)
15:43<AmmIer>that is booring :P
15:43<+glx>Muxy: just post your patch somewhere :)
15:43<Prof_Frink>AmmIer: Even if they do, <tab> knows.
15:44<Muxy>i open a thread about that subject in the tt forum
15:44<+glx>in dev section?
15:44<AmmIer>those are highlights from bot, he doesn't know ;-)
15:44<Muxy>no in the sugestion section
15:45<Muxy>here : http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=39971&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=1cd262a7725deee6ae6015a43b289ed0
15:45<+glx>you didn't post the patch
15:45<+glx>most server admins compile their server
15:46<Muxy>not yet, i just want to have some remarks from admin servers
15:47<AmmIer>there is already a patch for...
15:47<Muxy>patch ? written by who ?
15:47<Muxy>where ?
15:49<AmmIer>hmm, some days ago, someone else (or was that you?) spoke already about that topic.
15:49<Muxy>yes it's me, but before publishing the patch i would like to have comments about this. if it's usefull or not at all
15:51<Muxy>should i post this thread in the dev section ?
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>so basically you want an "autoclean empty" feature?
15:52<+glx>he has it
15:52<Muxy>no i dont want, i have made it, but i'd like to know if admin would like it or not
15:53<Muxy>that' s why i opened a thread in the suggest section
15:53<+glx>Muxy: I think you'll get more comment for a patch in dev section, than for a idea in suggestions section
15:53<Vikthor>Muxy: Admins do not matter that much, it's developers who decide
15:53*glx rarely looks in suggestions (too much garbage)
15:54<Muxy>yeap but dev will decide regarding the thread. if admin will like or not.
15:54<Vikthor>And they wont't decide without seeing the patch
15:54<Muxy>yeap but before publishing we can discuss about the function
15:54<Muxy>then i will publish the patch
15:55<Muxy>the dev will decide to include in the code
15:55<Muxy>as it is or improove it
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15:55<planetmaker>Muxy: it's far more fruitful to discuss an existing patch which people can try. All else is nearly futile
15:56<Muxy>ok in the thread i publish that u can test it on my servers... just for looking...
15:58<Muxy>but as mention someone, that most admin recompile their server, i will publish the patch, but where ? dev forum or bugs.openttd.org ?
15:59<Muxy>but before this, should i add some code in order use a new variable from the cfg file ?
15:59<planetmaker>dev forum is a good choice for publishing patches, if you want community attention
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15:59<planetmaker>bugs.openttd, if you are sure it's trunk worthy and want dev attention :)
16:00<Brianetta>Is "not having one's patch included" a bug?
16:01<planetmaker>a buggy description :P
16:01<+glx>feature requests are bugs too
16:02<planetmaker>yeah. Right. Those features are improperly implemented :P
16:02<Muxy>ok, i will start in the dev forum, then i will have some admin comments, then when it will be beautifull i will send it to trunk... sounds ok ?
16:02<planetmaker>I doubt the latter - but substitute that by "post at bugs.open...." is ok :)
16:03<planetmaker>but if glx likes it, he might send it to trunk :)
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16:03<Muxy>yes of course. i will open a task...
16:03<Muxy>my first goal is to have admin attention...
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16:48<Wolf01>'night
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17:21<A_Person>7,6 trains/month. Hmmm
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17:36<Zuu>Muxy: Don't have to high expectations about fast trunk include. A 1-liner patch I made took 10 days on flyspray before it got included. I have a longer patch that is mostly ready but I'm working on a document that will help the person who kindly will spend some of his (or her) time to understand what I have done.
17:38<ln>Muxy: a 10-line patch takes about 4 months to get included.
17:38<Prof_Frink>Unless you sleep with one of the devs.
17:39<Prof_Frink>Or threaten to.
17:39<Zuu>Prof_Frink: Tried? ;)
17:39<Prof_Frink>Not a coder.
17:40<vvv444>ln: wow, is it a general practice? Does it regards only future patches or even code beautification ones?
17:40<Zuu>WidgetFocus10.patch is 672 lines :/
17:40<vvv444>*feature
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>i've had patches included within 1 day
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>others took almost a year
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>and again others are still pending... of some sort
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>inbetween there, practically everything is possible
17:42<Zuu>Basically a stochastic process :)
17:44<Sacro>I had a patch included before I wrote it D:
17:44*Sacro glares at TrueBrain for that one
17:45<Prof_Frink>I had a patch included despite having never written one.
17:45<vvv444>Probably it depends mostly on the patch characteristics, doesn't it? If the patch implements disputable functionality it will be pending for long time.
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's totally itching in my fingers to start a shunting patch, but i know i could never finish it...
17:46<Sacro>unless you are HackyKid *coughs*
17:46<vvv444>Or if the patch code isn't perfectly debugged/styled etc
17:46<Sacro>unless you are HackyKid *coughs*
17:46<Zuu>vvv444: Also quite a lot on the work load of the devs of the area of the patch I would say.
17:46<Prof_Frink>IIRC the "Global population" thingy is my fault.
17:48<vvv444>Zuu: Reasonable. Btw, how do they track issues @ bugs.openttd.org? When one opens new issue the admins notified?
17:48<ln>vvv444: disputable functionality will never be included, trivial 5-line patches maybe within 6 months.
17:48<Zuu>Prof_Frink: Right in the way for a filter dialog of that list :p hehe - but will take long before that happen since first some kind of enhancement of query dialogs need to hit trunk.
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>global population is useless... i want to know number of towns...
17:49<vvv444>ln: Is it just because the devs have no time? Or it's for polotical reasons? i.e. it's difficult to persuade them?
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>it's because the moon is not properly aligned with jupiter yet
17:50*Sacro moons jupiter
17:51*vvv444 going to debug the jupiter issue...
17:51<ln>vvv444: mostly because they don't have time to review patches. not uncommon among open source projects.
17:52<vvv444>Yeah, of course. I would like to implement like hundred new features myself but totally have no time :(
17:52*Prof_Frink makes a uranus joke
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>they renamed it to urectum, remember?
17:54<Nite_Owl>Old joke - What is the similarity between Star Trek and Toilet Paper ?
17:54<vvv444>On other hand I think if I want to try implementing patches at all. If my patches never find their way to trunk because the devs have no time to review these, not worthy the effort.
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>if you surprise people with a really genious feature, everything can happen ;)
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17:55<Zuu>Coding for other projects than only your own helps increasing your coding abilities.
17:55<Nite_Owl>Both circle Uranus searching for Klingons
17:56<vvv444>Eddi: Well, I'm not that self confident
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>like some people show up with a perfectly finalized PBS implementation ;)
17:56<ln>vvv444: you can try, but just don't be surprised and depressed when your patches do not get to trunk.
17:56<vvv444>Zuu: I have enough projects to code at work... :(
17:57<vvv444>I shall.
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18:19<Brianetta>Nite_Owl: "What is the similarity between X and Y?" is better put as "What do X and Y have in common?"
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18:20<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think it's even funny...
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>must be a foreign language thing
18:21<Nite_Owl>Brianetta: True - but that is the way I remembered the joke - humor is subjective
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18:24<Brianetta>You remembered it as a "What's the difference between" by mistake?
18:27<Nite_Owl>I am confused - I wrote similarity did I not
18:28<Brianetta>Yes; wrecking the grammar in the process (:
18:28<Eddi|zuHause># Dra Chanasan mat dam Kantrabaß, saßan af da Straßa and arzahltan sach was, da kam da Palaza, na was as dann das, dra Chanasan mat dam Kantrabaß
18:29<Eddi|zuHause># Drö Chönösön möt döm Köntröböß, sößön öf dö Strößö önd örzöhltön söch wös, dö köm dö Pölözö, nö wös ös dönn dös, drö Chönösön möt döm Köntröböß
18:30<Eddi|zuHause># Dri Chinisin mit dim Kintribiß, sißin if di Strißi ind irzihltin sich wis, di kim di Pilizi, ni wis is dinn dis, dri Chinisin mit dim Kintribiß
18:30<Nite_Owl>Yes - the grammar may not have been perfect but as a joke it does not necessarily have to be. Jokes are generally given to colloquialisms.
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18:31<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of which... do the english people have a similar song?
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18:33<Eddi|zuHause>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drei_Chinesen_mit_dem_Kontrabass
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18:48<Eddi|zuHause>(or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drei_Chinesen_mit_dem_Kontrabass for the linguistically impaired)
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19:19<ln>vvv444|away: no away nicks, please.
19:27*Eddi|zuHause is so glad that he does not have an away nick
19:27<planetmaker>@seen Tiberius
19:27<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: I have not seen Tiberius.
19:28<Sacro>@seen !password
19:28<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Error: '!password' is not a valid nick.
19:28<Sacro>:(
19:28<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
19:28<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 6 hours, 5 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <Bjarni> he has big pixels
19:29<planetmaker>@seen DorpsGek
19:29<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: I have not seen DorpsGek.
19:29<planetmaker>:O
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19:29<Eddi|zuHause>so much for a self-aware AI :p
19:29<planetmaker>no mirror present :P
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>maybe he scanned it :p
19:30<planetmaker>:D
19:30<planetmaker>@seen CIA-1
19:30<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: CIA-1 was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 9 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14478 /branches/noai/ (67 files in 8 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14450:14477
19:31<planetmaker>ok, he knows at least his mates.
19:31<planetmaker>@seen aronal
19:31<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: I have not seen aronal.
19:31<ln>omg, Sarah Connor Chronicles Season 2 is already at 5 episodes.
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19:32<Eddi|zuHause>there was no episode this week
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19:34<ln>ok, i only remembered about the whole series 5 minutes ago.
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 17 00:00:04 2008