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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-10-17

---Logopened Fri Oct 17 00:00:04 2008
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06:36<ln>thanks to Spotify, np: "The Best of Leonard Nimoy & William Shatner"
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure that violates half a dozen channel rules
06:47<ln>people at the office are suffering
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07:18<roboboy>hello
07:19<Alberth>hello
07:20<ln> hello
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07:22<roboboy>!seen orudge
07:24<dih>roboboy: @seen?
07:24<roboboy>ah
07:25<roboboy>@seen orudge
07:25<@DorpsGek>roboboy: orudge was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 11 hours, 17 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <orudge> Hello all
07:25<roboboy>I can not get my client to join #tycoon
07:25<roboboy>any devs around that understand the installer?
07:26<dih>what's the problem
07:26<dih>and why do you need an installer?
07:26<dih>why dont you get a proper client?
07:27<roboboy>I mean the openttd installer
07:27<roboboy>ignore my IRC problem
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07:38<dih>why are you using the openttd installer?
07:38<dih>why not get a zip?
07:39<dih>would a online scn editor not be a nice idea?
07:39<dih>could it be made mp safe?
07:39<dih>add the required network commands
07:39<SpComb>heh
07:40<roboboy>are any of the devs that understand the windows installer code online?
07:40<roboboy>I want to make sure I understand something
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07:41<Alberth>Isn't it easier to try it? It will break all by itself when you got it wrong
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07:49<Eddi|zuHause>hm... the pathfinder penalties are somehow wrong
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>it should be free track < platform < reserved track < reserved platform
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>currently, it prefers a reserved track over a free platform
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07:55<dih>Eddi|zuHause: hihi
07:55<dih>SpComb: do you not have a map-array reader in python
07:56<dih>so people can scroll a save game?
07:56<dih>or was that just a giant screenshot one could scroll
07:57<SpComb>dih: no, I didn't implement rendering and whatnot in python, it was just PNG screenshots
07:57<dih>shame
07:57<dih>else you could have gone as far as making an scn editor online :-D
07:57<dih>with python
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08:01<SpComb>well, you could figure out the co-ordinates of objects and then interact with them
08:02<SpComb>i.e. it wouldn't be entirely impossible to implement, say, track-laying, if you did the cursor client-side
08:02<SpComb>but the code isn't very good in terms of what it looks like on the OpenTTD side of things
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08:06<dih>SpComb: no tracks - just makeing the landscape and placing towns and industries
08:07<dih>oh
08:07<dih>and loading grfs would be a huge impossible i guess :-D
08:07<dih>forget it :-P
08:08<Ammler>SpComb: is there any progress for the grf downloader?
08:14<SpComb>no
08:15<SpComb>I got stuck at implementing the client portion, as part of the OpenTTD network code
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08:19<dih>http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ <- getting closer :-)
08:21<blathijs>Why are there so much bugs for the current stable release?
08:23<Alberth>blathijs: people use the software in unexpected ways :P
08:30<dih>yeah - all those bloody users
08:30<dih>ubuntu is even worse with users - hence they have empoyed developers to fix the bugs :-D
08:31<planetmaker>[14:15] <SpComb> I got stuck at implementing the client portion, as part of the OpenTTD network code <--- a shame :(
08:31<planetmaker>I was really putting hope in you :)
08:31<SpComb>:(
08:32<SpComb>the curl/HTTP-based thing works, but it blocks the whole OpenTTD GUI when it's running
08:32<SpComb>but integrating new functionality with old code is just... difficult
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08:39<Ammler>SpComb: BitTorrent would be nice for the GRFRepo :-)
08:39<Ammler>as some servers don't have much upload speed.
08:39<FauxFaux>Metalink.
08:40<Ammler>so there would be no need for a central server
08:40<SpComb>Ammler: if someone agrees to rewrite OpenTTD's network code...
08:41<Ammler>I agree :P
08:41<SpComb>downloading the GRFs from the OpenTTD server itself isn't an impossibility, and it's kind of the same
08:41<Ammler>no
08:41<Ammler>the server would then need to upload for evey cleint
08:42<SpComb>but the network code needs some modifications to support non-game-client connections
08:42<Ammler>so the server has to upload the map and the grfs, that could produce quite much traffic.
08:42<SpComb>depends on how many GRFs and unique clients the server has
08:43<SpComb>GRFs with the same md5sum won't be downloaded twice
08:43<Ammler>just think about 1. joins
08:44<Ammler>wwottdgd would be a good example
08:44<SpComb>first joins?
08:44<Ammler>many of the clients don't have the grfs.
08:44<Ammler>so they would need to download the map and the grfs all from same server, around 20MB
08:45<Ammler>if 10 clients joins at same time, that could produce "laggs".
08:46<SpComb>depends on the server, I guess, but the clients have got to download that 20MB from somewhere
08:46<SpComb>and there's no need to pause the game while downloading NewGRFs
08:47<SpComb>anyways, if I ever manage to work out the client code, I'll probably write the server separately in python before touching the OpenTTD server code
08:47<Ammler>and if you don't have a central repo, you do not have to care about licenses
08:47<Ammler>that would be up to the server admin.
08:48<SpComb>hmm?
08:48<FauxFaux>Ammler: Mmm, not so, I believe in many countries providing the information to get unredistributable files is illegal.
08:49<Ammler>?
08:49<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=34709 <-- concerning this thread: does my memory serve me well that backward driving (shunting) is already supported by the code, but only missing in (nearly) all newgrf?
08:50<@petern>Wrong.
08:50<@petern>Backwards driving does not happen, it is merely a graphical hack that some NewGRFs implement.
08:51<SpComb>ngeative velocity
08:51<@petern>If it was proper backwards driving, it wouldn't require NewGRF support at all.
08:51<planetmaker>hm... ok. But a grf should be able to specify whether a train can drive backward.
08:51<Ammler>FauxFaux: it does not just provide information, you do also download there.
08:51<@petern>There's no such facility.
08:52<planetmaker>ok :) A pity, wouldn't you like it? :D
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>german law says that copying a file is license-free if the process is an integral part of using it
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08:53<Eddi|zuHause>which i think would cover automatically downloading grfs, as long as they are not accessible from outside that game
08:53<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: well, if you take them from "cache", you can use them outside
08:54-!-Yeggstry is now known as Yeggs-work
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>but extracting from cache is illegal then ;)
08:54<Ammler>but that would be the same as now with our grfpack
08:54<Ammler>there are people using it in SP, which is also illeagal
08:55<planetmaker>thanks for clarification, petern :)
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>downloading the grf pack is a completely different situationnn
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>-nn
08:55<Ammler>why?
08:55<Sacro>Ammler: cite why it is illegal
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>because downloading it is not an integral part of a process of using it
08:56<Ammler>some of the authors allow including of the GRFs only for MP usage.
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>which means that part of the law does not apply
08:57<Ammler>Sacro: because you need to read the docs for SP mode.
08:58<Eddi|zuHause>that paragraph of the german law covers situations like copying a video from hard disk to memory, in order to play it
08:58<Sacro>Ammler: is the licence actually enforcible though?
08:58<Ammler>well, german law isn't that representative, is it?
08:59<Ammler>isn't it too restrictive?
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>well, i can't speak of other countries' laws :p
08:59<Ammler>if it is in germany allowed, it is allowed everywhere, I guess :-)
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09:00<Ammler>Sacro: don't get that
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>of course copyright law is restrictive. that's what licenses are for, loosening restrictions of copyright
09:00<Sacro>Ammler: depends what it states
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>copyright is like the lowest comon denominator of distributionnnn
09:01<Sacro>it might have the wonderful ability to nullify itself
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>fuck this keyboard...
09:01<Ammler>Sacro: what _it_
09:01<Sacro>Ammler: the licence
09:03<Ammler>Sacro: of?
09:03<roboboy>gnight
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>copyright law is about what you can do with other people's work, without asking them for permission
09:03<Ammler>the GRFpack itself has no license
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>licenses can give additional permissions
09:03<planetmaker>Ammler: not quite true IMO
09:04<planetmaker>the license is: don't distribute and take individual licenses of the authors.
09:04<Ammler>well, it has the license of the most restrictive GRF
09:04<roboboy>this is interesting and I do not want to go to bed now
09:04<Ammler>which doesn't allow playing SP :-)
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09:04<planetmaker>good morning roboboy :P
09:04<roboboy>which is that one?
09:05<Ammler>those from Pikka, i.e.
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09:06<Ammler>but the point is, I am sure, there are people using the pack to play SP too.
09:07<Ammler>and nobody can control that, so a autodownloader for MP games does also not need to control that., imo.
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09:09<Ammler>(1. sentence in our readme, btw.)
09:09<roboboy>gnight if you are done talking on the subject
09:10<Ammler>night, roboboy
09:10<planetmaker>night :)
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09:20<Eddi|zuHause>no, we're not :p
09:24<ln>it's @600 o'clock.
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09:50<dih>ln: congrats on using internet time
09:50<dih>beats
09:50<dih>or whatever you wanna call it :-P
09:51<Ammler>Biel time :P
09:51<dih>:-)
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09:54<ln>wrote support for it today
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09:59<Eddi|zuHause>http://pics.nase-bohren.de/whatwashitlersfirstname.jpg/1224251012
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>not only the americans have no clue :p
10:06<planetmaker>Evil you, Eddi|zuHause :) I now have to watch images :P http://pics.nase-bohren.de/electionstrains.jpg <- not bad either :P
10:08<+glx>nice one
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>old :p
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10:09<A_Person>Good one
10:10<planetmaker>http://pics.nase-bohren.de/iphone_vs_rock.png <-- probably also old, but even more funny IMO. And now I'll stop posting stupid links :P
10:10<A_Person>Those japanese fast trains have some badass styling too
10:16<Ammler>@seen Yorick
10:16<@DorpsGek>Ammler: Yorick was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 0 hours, 36 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <yorick> yes, it only works from gui
10:16*A_Person conciders making a 2048 map by hand
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10:17<Alberth>One byte at a time :P
10:19<A_Person>I'm thinking varying elevattion zones might be interesting, especially with subarctic
10:19<A_Person>And I want to find out what it costs o build a ralway from one corner t the opposite
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>that's easy, open second viewport at one end, scroll to other end, select autorail, hold shift, and drag from one viewport to the other :p
10:21<A_Person>Hehe, well, that'll work on a flat map
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10:21<A_Person>and doesn't include the cost of trains
10:22<A_Person>Actually it makes me wonder if it would actually be profitable to run the trains bakc the whole way
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>if you run them back empty, probably not
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10:25<A_Person>but then a train hauling cargo both ways would run half empty anyway
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10:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but you need hardly any pulling power for the empty wagons, so you can make trains twice as long
10:32<A_Person>Hmm, I never thought of that
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10:32<A_Person>The stats do describe the cars as something like 1/3 of the combined weight tho
10:32<A_Person>or 1/4 maybe, it was yesterday, I forgot
10:33<A_Person>Guess I'll just have to do some proper sandboxing to figure it all out
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11:28<Li-On>Conspiracy theory!
11:28<Li-On>Hahaha, nice one:
11:28<Li-On>http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=2729&pid=49681#pid49681
11:29<Li-On>from now on only commit without comment, please
11:30<A_Person>Hmm, so many unfamiliar words
11:31<FauxFaux>German? They're probably banal plesantries. *runs*
11:31<A_Person>Hah, nope
11:32<Li-On>r14475 is a secrect feature, because it has the comment 'no comment'.
11:32<Li-On>I really like this theory.
11:32<A_Person>Heh
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11:34<A_Person>Blah, I want to use huge station spread but the wiki tells spooky stories about that combined with YAPF
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11:37<@petern>Untrue stories.
11:37<A_Person>Really?
11:37<A_Person>Cause I was trying to decide which option to ditch
11:38<A_Person>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Change_station_spread
11:38<A_Person>" Be careful if not using the YAPF pathfinding though: The game will slow and then become unstable when you set this to a value higher than the default of 12."
11:38<A_Person>wait
11:38<A_Person>no
11:38<A_Person>I'm stupid
11:39<A_Person>English has outsmarted me yet again
11:39<@petern>That statement is also bollocks.
11:39<+glx>it was true a long time ago IIRC
11:39<A_Person>It claims the opposite than I thought it did
11:39<fonso>Doesn't it do a square search for station tiles somewhere?
11:39<A_Person>I think it actually says the huge stations work better, not worse with YAPF
11:39<fonso>The effort for that would grow quadratically with station spread.
11:40<@petern>The problem originally was graphical, and totally unrelated to pathfinding.
11:40<A_Person>Guess I'll have to test and see, heh
11:40<A_Person>YAPF+max spread
11:41<A_Person>I misread it anyway, so my panic was unnecessary
11:41-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
11:41<A_Person>It could still be true for the old pathfinders, no?
11:42<+glx>it never was pathfinding related
11:42<A_Person>good
11:42<+glx>wiki is just wrong
11:43<A_Person>the game itself still has a warning that "High setting slows game" in 063
11:43-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@ip54534322.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd
11:44<+glx>yes and the warning in the wiki should be the same
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11:45<A_Person>Does make me wonder if that specific processing load can be optimised more
11:46<+glx>but IIRC this "problem" doesn't exist now
11:46<A_Person>k
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12:00<@Belugas>ho boy... and he's setting up a server... -> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=40087
12:00<@Belugas>** plunk **
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12:01<A_Person>Note to self: add to wiki the specific elevation at which sub-arctic elevation-specific differences appear
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>you mean the snow line? that can be adjusted
12:05<A_Person>Really?
12:05*A_Person regenerates an arctic map
12:06<A_Person>Don't see it in editor
12:06<+glx>it's in the generator window
12:06<A_Person>ah yes
12:07<A_Person>so it's displayed by one of the partially snowy tiles
12:07<A_Person>grah
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12:33<A_Person>land area information and the generator's snowline onset don't seem to match very well
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12:36*A_Person tries inventing a mnemonic
12:37<A_Person>the border at which one puts desert in editor is one tile smaller than the land area information for the desert area, smae for snowline
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12:43*A_Person curses at discrete math, which he despises
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12:46<A_Person>0-2046 should be 2047 tiles, making 1023 the middle point
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12:52<@Belugas>2046?
12:52<Sacro>Belugas: ohhai
12:53<@Rubidium>2047 is MP_VOID so he can't see it
12:53<@Belugas>ohhai? ho... hi!
12:53<@Belugas>right :)
12:53<Sacro>bon soir!
12:53<@Belugas>bon apres-midi, tu veux dire :)
12:54<@Belugas>ben.. en tout ca, pour moi :S
12:54<@Belugas>+s
12:55*Sacro thinks
12:55<Sacro>je suis mal a la err... throat
12:57<@Belugas>"j'ai mal a la gorge"
12:57<+glx>auxilliary verbs are fun ;)
12:58*Belugas checks http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2358/getfile/3460/music.patch
12:58<@Belugas>and english has somehow eluded the question :)
12:58<@Belugas>"my throat hurts"
12:58<@Belugas>i think...
12:58<+glx>yeah like male/female words :)
12:59<+glx>s/words/nouns/
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>if in doubt, it's the opposite of what you think :p
13:03-!-Kommer [kommer@vestingbar.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>err... has arrow-key-scrolling stopped working?
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13:05<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: works for me in HEAD++ ;)
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>weird...
13:06-!-Xerres [~Mewes@d-206-53-71-234.cpe.metrocast.net] has joined #openttd
13:07<@Belugas>-> head++ hehe
13:07<frosch123>a lot stuff works in headM
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>i use cargodest+timetable+daylength+some small stuff
13:11<A_Person>odd nr of tiles per side is good anyway, that way the axis of the map is on a tile, instead of between
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>how is that a) relevant, and b) better?
13:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14479 /trunk/ (config.lib src/gfx.cpp): -Add: initial (optional) support for handling bidirectional scripts and connecting Arabic characters.
13:15<A_Person>I'm a symmetry freak
13:15<A_Person>it matches with the 3*3 city grid
13:15<A_Person>actually, any city is centered on a road tile
13:16<A_Person>a city in the middle of the map has a road tile in the middle of the map
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>if you say so...
13:16<A_Person>with an even number of tiles, that isn't the case
13:21-!-giddorah [~archer@c-7688e055.772-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
13:22<giddorah>Hey... I've got a problem with Cargodest... Using windows
13:22<giddorah>Downloaded the windows binary
13:22<giddorah>Unzipped to a folder
13:22<giddorah>Copied data from other install
13:22<giddorah>Started... It starts perfectly
13:22<giddorah>Fiddle around with difficulty settings
13:22<giddorah>Start a new game
13:23-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:23<giddorah>And... I don't get any of the fancy stuff from the screenshots on the Wiki :(
13:23<Wolf01>not hello
13:23<@Belugas>not bonjour
13:23<A_Person>yes hello!
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>giddorah: you need to go to the advanced settings->economy section and enable the destinations
13:24<giddorah>Instead of anywhere I should have "chosen destinations"?
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>yes
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13:26<giddorah>Sweet! And that's everything I have to do? Now passengers are gonna start taking connecting trains to get to their final destinations?
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes
13:27<giddorah>Awesome :) Thanks :) I knew it was something I had missed
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13:28<Wolf01>what does change when I disable inflation on year 2165?
13:28<@Rubidium>not much
13:29<@Rubidium>depending on when you started: absolutely nothing or inflation stops
13:31<Wolf01>so the base cost multiplier is not reset to 1, but it only stops to sum it another 0.x at month?
13:32-!-thingwath [~thingwath@88.83.164.57] has quit [Quit: It's all over.]
13:32<@Rubidium>exactly
13:32<@Rubidium>inflation only happens for 170 years though
13:33<Wolf01>I should have disabled it a thousand ages before... the running cost of trains is absurdly high
13:33<A_Person>Hmm, this makes me wonder what the total multiplier by the end of the 170 years would be
13:33<Wolf01>170?
13:34<@Rubidium>2090-1920
13:34<Wolf01>oh yes
13:34<A_Person>oh, not couted from the year you start?
13:35<@Rubidium>we don't use cout
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13:35<A_Person>counted*
13:35<@Rubidium>who said it isn't counted from the year you start?
13:35<A_Person>I should add that to the wiki if it's only those years, not a floating count
13:36<Wolf01>it's 170 years since you start
13:36<@Rubidium>unless you cheat your way into the future or back in time
13:36<A_Person>nobody, the wiki where I saw the limited duration of inflation occurring didn't specify a starting year for those years
13:36<A_Person>mentioned, not occurring
13:36<A_Person>glah
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13:37<@Rubidium>well... IMO it's sane to assume that other people assume it's from the time where you start, right?
13:37<A_Person>I did, so I think it's reasonable to assume
13:38<A_Person> <@Rubidium> 2090-1920
13:38<A_Person>but what does that mean
13:38<+glx>170
13:39<@Rubidium>A_Person: pass that through a calculator type of device/tool and then interpret what Wolf01 asked the line before that reply of me
13:39<A_Person>it would seem like rubidium claimed it startw and ends with those years, not the year on estarts+170
13:39<A_Person>Crap I can't type
13:42<Swallow>Let me repeat the question I asked Wednesday: Does my 'improved breakdowns' patch have any chance of getting into trunk?
13:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14480 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Add: warning when trying to use a right-to-left language without support for it in OpenTTD.
13:45<A_Person>I should figure out what the game interprets as aplphabetical order
13:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r14481 /trunk/src/lang/ (korean.txt unfinished/latvian.txt unfinished/persian.txt):
13:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-17 17:47:40
13:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 4 changed by leejaeuk5 (4)
13:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: latvian - 10 fixed by v3rb0 (10)
13:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: persian - 55 fixed by ali sattari (55)
13:48-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
13:49<A_Person>? is unrecognized by ottd
13:49<A_Person>and mIRC...
13:57<Sacro>?
13:57<Sacro>what is "?"
13:57<A_Person>the reverse of ^
13:57<Sacro>eh?
13:57<@Belugas>liar! it's 6, the reverse of ^
13:57<Sacro>well your utf-8 fails
13:58<A_Person>Funny thing is that mIRC's input box displays symbols like that, also for the eur symbol, but doesn't in the display field
13:58*A_Person looks at Belugas oddly
14:02<@petern>^ v < >
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14:02<frosch123>maybe ˇ
14:03<@Belugas>!1 @2 #3 $4 %5 ^6 ...
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14:03<@Belugas>prrrrrrrrrrrrrt
14:03<A_Person>ah, my ^ is on the ä key
14:03<A_Person>;P
14:03<+glx>first is shift ?
14:04<+glx>A_Person: you have a square key?
14:04<frosch123>glx: Belugas is not SmatZ :)
14:04<A_Person>that's not a square
14:04<+glx>it is a square
14:04<A_Person>http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/keyboards/kbdest.htm
14:04<A_Person>altgr ä
14:05<+glx>configure your client to send utf8
14:05<FR^2>or iso-utf-hybrid
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14:05<A_Person>dunno where that is
14:06<A_Person>it has utf-8 selected
14:06-!-Xerres [~Mewes@d-206-53-71-234.cpe.metrocast.net] has joined #openttd
14:07<+glx>ä
14:07<A_Person>yes, that
14:07<A_Person>a+a diatric thingy
14:08<+glx>and the MS page you linked to doesn't work in firefox
14:08<A_Person>heh
14:08<A_Person>works for Opera
14:08<+glx>works in IE too
14:08*A_Person luv Opera
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14:10<frosch123>the "£$€" line is funny
14:10-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...]
14:10<A_Person>Wow, mIRC is sure weird
14:10<A_Person>I can see the € sign from frosch123 just fine :D
14:10<Sacro>yeah
14:11<Sacro>cos euro isn't utf8
14:11*Sacro checks wikipædia
14:11<A_Person>When I send, it displays as black square
14:11<frosch123>for me too
14:11<frosch123>i.e. what you send
14:12<frosch123>why do you have a "½" on your keyboard?
14:12<A_Person>It's a cool symbol!
14:12<A_Person>I never use it tho
14:12<Sacro>}][
14:13<Sacro>½¾
14:13<Sacro>¹²³
14:13<Sacro>ooh, nice
14:13<A_Person>You might ask why we have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_(typography) but not dollar
14:13<A_Person>I don't have the latter 4 you posted
14:13<A_Person>Well, keyboard
14:13<A_Person>They be nice stuff
14:13<frosch123>Sacro: ⅛⅜⅝⅞ even sillier symbols
14:14<Sacro>º
14:14<Progman>. o O (and I read "Cryptography_(Theory)"
14:15<A_Person>Heh, wha?
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14:16<A_Person>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_subscripts_and_superscripts
14:17*A_Person gets a moment of WTF, two eur signs on kb?
14:17<A_Person>
14:18<bow^znc>I wonder why any broken/corrupt utf sequences always seem to be interpreted as those truly bizarre burmese glyphs, in gnome + pidgin heh
14:19-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:25<frosch123>⢎⡱⢸⠕⢸⣭⢸⠢⡇⢹⠁⢹⠁⣏⠆
14:25<frosch123>how useful...
14:25<A_Person>lots of boxes!
14:25<Sacro>:o
14:25<Sacro>frosch123: impressive
14:25<Sacro>though not strictly braille
14:26<frosch123>I always thought it was a braille page, but in fact it is a binary page...
14:26<A_Person>page?
14:26<frosch123>40
14:26<frosch123>0x2800 - 0x28FF
14:26<A_Person>page of a book you mean?
14:27-!-giddorah [~archer@c-7688e055.772-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit []
14:27<frosch123>unicode page
14:27<A_Person>k
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14:56<ln>B n
14:56<ln> j r i
14:56<ln> a !
14:56<@petern>el_ln fails it
14:57<ln>i wonder wtf happened, there was no tab from where i copied it.
14:57<Sacro>ln: impressive
14:57<Sacro>but it won't highlight him
14:57-!-thingwath [~thingwath@88.83.164.57] has joined #openttd
14:58<ln>Sacro: thank you. the nobel prize can be sent me by mail.
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15:17<@Belugas>gaaaaa... my ears!
15:17<@Belugas>Chocky attacked again!
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15:57<A_Person>Anyone know why the shortcut for double sized display doesn't work anymore?
15:59<+glx>because it was windows only and the blitters have been rewritten
16:00<A_Person>ah
16:00<A_Person>pity
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16:02<@Bjarni>ln: highlighting actually works
16:02<@Bjarni>if used correctly
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16:54<Wolf01>'night
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16:55<ln>Bjarni: how much of William Shatner have you been listening to today?
16:58<ben_goodger>"I have here the only working phaser ever built. It was fired only once, to keep William Shatner from making another album." ~ Comic Book Guy
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17:18<@Bjarni><ln> Bjarni: how much of William Shatner have you been listening to today? <--- I didn't even think about him at all
17:18<@Bjarni>I spent time on uni stuff most of the day
17:19-!-turbofisk [turbo@turbofi.sk] has left #openttd []
17:23-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
17:24<ln>we wants babyottd back
17:26-!-babyottd [~babyottd@sarah.ppcis.org] has joined #openttd
17:26<@Bjarni>!words
17:26<babyottd>I know 1752 words (7997 contexts, 4.56 per word), 1363 lines.
17:27<ln>babyottd: how are you today, sir?
17:27<@Bjarni>William Shatner wants babyottd back?
17:27<babyottd>remove this, isn't bank with them back together again
17:27<@Bjarni>...
17:27<@Bjarni>I misread we as he :(
17:27<@Bjarni>maybe I should go to bed
17:27<@Bjarni>which means:
17:28<@Bjarni>IRC ALL NIGHT!!!
17:28<babyottd>curplayer, which is way too funny
17:28<babyottd>the night indeed
17:28<Nite_Owl> later Bjarni
17:28<babyottd>Nite_Owl : me too
17:30<@Bjarni>what's curplayer?
17:30<Nite_Owl>Oops - my bad - I misread that
17:31<@Bjarni>:D
17:31<babyottd>qdb'd hate that
17:31<@Bjarni>maybe we should use a bigger font xD
17:31<babyottd>it use the variable or does
17:31-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd
17:31<@Bjarni>and somehow I think somebody is controlling babyottd
17:31<babyottd>i think somebody added that line on purpose
17:32<@Bjarni>...
17:32<@Bjarni>babyottd: how many fingers do I hold up right now?
17:32<babyottd>d : how many fingers do i hold up right now ?
17:32<Sacro>babyottd: epic
17:32<babyottd>an epic game
17:32<Sacro>babyottd: boobs
17:32<@Bjarni>crazy Sacro
17:32<babyottd>Bjarni your a goner : p
17:32<Sacro>Bjarni: he said "epic boobs" the other day
17:32<@Bjarni>o_O
17:33<Sacro>a goner eh
17:33<Sacro>i love blowing them up, so defenceless
17:33<babyottd>control you have a savings account at icesave ?
17:33<@Bjarni>what is he trying to do???
17:33<Brianetta>Bjarni: I'm the only one who could "control" the bot (if I figured it out) and I'm not.
17:33<babyottd>i could, but Brianetta interrupted, )
17:33-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E1FB.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
17:33<Brianetta>Sacro's playing X
17:33<babyottd>that's working on it
17:34<Sacro>Brianetta: am I?
17:34<Sacro>oh, I have in the past
17:34<Sacro>not recently though
17:34<@Bjarni>so babyottd is controlling babyottd?
17:34<Brianetta>Why else would you be plowing up defenceless goners?
17:34-!-Xerres [~Mewes@d-206-53-71-234.cpe.metrocast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:34<@Bjarni>read back
17:34<Brianetta>Bjarni: He's running autonomously, yes
17:34<Brianetta>plowing? I meant blowing
17:34-!-GoneWacko [~GoneWacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
17:34<@Bjarni>babyottd called me a goner
17:35<babyottd>one called schauble ? who votes for kban
17:35<Sacro>Brianetta: blowing works, when in a T1 :p
17:35<Sacro>*plowing
17:35<babyottd>it likes when i lol
17:36<Brianetta>oh so he did (:
17:36<babyottd>p : did he get that from your memory !
17:36<@Bjarni>what does "p :" mean?
17:36<babyottd>it i mean tpm
17:36-!-Xerres [~Mewes@d-206-53-71-234.cpe.metrocast.net] has joined #openttd
17:36<Sacro>Bjarni: I think he's attempting :p
17:36<@Bjarni>what does "d :" mean?
17:37<Brianetta>D:
17:37<Brianetta>in lower case
17:37<Brianetta>and spaced
17:37<Sacro>hmm, why do i see F0F0F0 as nearer white than FFFFFF
17:37-!-d-mike [~mibindsei@p4FC26E5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
17:37<planetmaker>is here any dev who'd like to have a look at why some industries receive goods at our public server?
17:37<babyottd>a funny look cause im laughing so much : p
17:38<planetmaker>Using PBI, we have there a range of industries with no drop station nearby, but they're happily producing goods...
17:39<Sacro>planetmaker: i've had that bug too
17:39<Sacro>Belugas took a look iirc
17:39<planetmaker>oh, right?
17:39<Sacro>i had a 375T a month factory
17:39<Sacro>with no input
17:39<planetmaker>we're using r14469.
17:39<Sacro>this was 063
17:39<planetmaker>yeah, something like that.
17:39<babyottd>germany was divided into two separ
17:39<planetmaker>with quite a lot of industries.
17:39<babyottd>a lot of thought indeed : p
17:40<planetmaker>but good to know that it's not just me and a few other people who are just too stupid to work with them :)
17:40<@Bjarni>babyottd: what do you think about the American election?
17:40<planetmaker>thx, Sacro
17:42<Sacro>planetmaker: could be sometimes to do with similar names
17:42<babyottd>could siSacroece at most
17:42<planetmaker>hm... I'll play around with it a bit :)
17:44<ln>i wonder what that siSacroece is... some kind of bug? didn't he say "siBjarniece" the other day?
17:44<babyottd>i wonder what that silnece is
17:44<@Bjarni>silnece is when nobody is around
17:44*Brianetta has no idea
17:44<Sacro>Bjarni: no, that's silence
17:45<ln>00:44 <babyottd> that's right, ln is a country located in southwestern europe on the first pyborg babytom ever spoke
17:45<@Bjarni>wow silnece is an actual word o_O
17:45<babyottd>it is an actual word Bjarni
17:47<Brianetta>!wow si#nickece is an actual word o_O
17:47<Brianetta>![21:45:31] <babyottd> > #openttd> it is an actual word Bjarni
17:47<@Bjarni>hmm
17:47<@Bjarni>then again maybe not
17:47<Brianetta>it's replacing ln with #nick
17:47<babyottd>to agree with Brianetta
17:47<@Bjarni>looks like google caught a whole lot of mistyped "silence" :P
17:47<babyottd>a lot of industries
17:47<Brianetta>ln: You are polluting words contaiing your nick
17:47<@Bjarni>3070 of them
17:48<ln>but, but... what is this si#nickece thing anyway?
17:48<babyottd>anyway ?
17:49<Sacro>ln: s/ln/#nick/
17:50<ln>i figured that much, but why?
17:50<babyottd>chuckle too much laughing to be shortening sentences and reconstruct them oddly : p
17:50<Brianetta>You know, you guys keep saying it, which is what's with it
17:51*Brianetta is deleting it from the word database periodically
17:51<Brianetta>You lot keep putting it right back
17:51<ln>ok, let's just call it the word we do not speak of.
17:52<babyottd>call me mate
17:52<ln>babyottd: you have a phone?
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>openttd: /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTDx/paxdest2/src/road_map.h:23: RoadTileType GetRoadTileType(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_ROAD)' failed. <- wtf?
17:52<babyottd>wtf
17:53<@Bjarni>yeah
17:53<@Bjarni>wtf
17:53<babyottd>wtf
17:53<@Bjarni>you are named Johannes?
17:53<@Bjarni>I thought you were named Christian :s
17:54<@Bjarni>or something like that
17:54<babyottd>not to do something
17:54<Brianetta>Never mind the assert fail, Eddi has a surprising username!
17:55<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: you are only supposed to use GetRoadTileType() on tiles with a road
17:55-!-Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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17:55<@Bjarni>and for some reason you did this anyway
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>why would i be named Christian?
17:56<@Bjarni>I think you once told us
17:56<babyottd>tom once
17:56<@Bjarni>but maybe you told that you have a Christian name :)
17:57<ben_goodger>hurrah, conversation
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>why would i tell i'd be named Christian when i am called Johannes?
17:57<babyottd>ben_goodger conversation : d
17:57<babyottd>a christian name : )
17:57<@Bjarni>not that it's actual Christian
17:57<babyottd>should be named christian : s
17:57<@Bjarni>yeah
17:57<babyottd>yeah
17:57<+glx>wow
17:57<@Bjarni>he should be named Christian
17:57<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: babyottd just decided that you should be named Christian :P
17:57<babyottd>actual christian
17:58<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause: christian name == forename
17:58<+glx>babyottd: let's talk about Sacro :)
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>then i must obey to the almighty babyottd
17:58<babyottd>that must be : p
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>ben_goodger: i've never heard it in that context in german
17:58<babyottd>we've had that bug too
17:58<@Bjarni>I knew that people were naming bots, but bots naming people?
17:58<@Bjarni>that one is new
17:59<@Bjarni><babyottd> we've had that bug too <-- what bug? :D
17:59<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause: no, you wouldn't... it stems from the time of people picking "christian" names from the bible to go with their family names
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>well, colonies deciding not to want to pay taxes was new once also :p
17:59<babyottd>should be named christian : p
17:59<babyottd>once i nearly met tom
17:59<Sacro>who is tom?
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>ben_goodger: it's not like that was not done in germany
17:59<Brianetta>Tom Morton
18:00<babyottd>written by tom morton
18:00<@Bjarni>Uncle Tom
18:00<Brianetta>Pyborg's author
18:00<babyottd>by tom morton when the first person to converse with this highly intelligent
18:00<Brianetta>!version
18:00<babyottd>I am a version 1.1.0 PyBorg
18:00-!-Brianetta was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
18:00-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
18:00<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause: true, I suppose... possibly germans are just better at making nouns than the English (mittwoch wins)
18:00<@Bjarni>lol
18:00<babyottd>lol
18:00<Brianetta>Complete failure.
18:00<+glx>it replied
18:00<Brianetta>Of course it did
18:00<babyottd>of course, you corrected yourself
18:00<babyottd>: it told me to run again
18:01<+glx>my script did too ;)
18:01<@Bjarni>!words
18:01<babyottd>I know 2082 words (10003 contexts, 4.80 per word), 1669 lines.
18:01<Brianetta>your script has a bug
18:01<babyottd>inside your intestines
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>ben_goodger: well, but "forename" is the equivalent of the german "Vorname", so that word obviously exists, too
18:01<@Bjarni>I wish I could learn new words that fast
18:01<babyottd>a word that is ? d :
18:01<ben_goodger>yes
18:01<babyottd>yes !
18:01<Brianetta>it can't tell a coop retard from me )-:
18:01<babyottd>i wish he'd make a brilliant father
18:02<@Bjarni>who?
18:02<ben_goodger>I believe "forename" comes directly from Vorname, while christian name is a less sensible alternative concocted by the religious nut-jobs who ran our country until c. 1600
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>aren't you the host of the whole coop mess? :p
18:03<ben_goodger>hmm... I've just noticed that german has an inflection for the accusative case
18:04<ben_goodger>it's even better structured than I thought
18:04-!-Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd
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18:05<ben_goodger>ho hum
18:05-!-Yexo is now known as Guest463
18:05<ben_goodger>what is best --- screenplay, novel, storyboard or comic strip?
18:05<babyottd>the best game ever
18:06-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-25-139.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
18:06-!-Guest463 is now known as yexo
18:06-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-25-139.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
18:06<ben_goodger>whoops
18:07<@Bjarni>the X is not a key to give you x-ray vision in IRC
18:07<babyottd>irc all night !
18:07-!-yexo is now known as Yexo
18:08<ben_goodger>Yexo: make your mind up
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>ben_goodger: what do you mean by inflection for the accusative case?
18:08<babyottd>: mean ?
18:08<babyottd>in mind that when ben_goodger sees a word
18:08-!-Xerres [~Mewes@d-206-53-71-234.cpe.metrocast.net] has joined #openttd
18:08<ben_goodger>babyottd: what the hell are you talking about?
18:08<babyottd>i asked about owner of ben_goodger bot
18:09<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause: "ich liebe meinen vornamen" has "vornamen" rather than "vorname" due to me doing something to it
18:09<ben_goodger>english just has "forename" for both cases
18:09<@Bjarni>yeah... who added the ben_goodger bot in here?
18:09<babyottd>english : (
18:09<babyottd>lame rather make him say gaga from time to what ? : ben_goodger
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>yes
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>english is lame :p
18:10<@Bjarni>yeah
18:10<babyottd>yeah
18:10<@Bjarni>let's all switch to Engrish instead
18:10<babyottd>let it flow
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>the english language has undergone some significant simplifications due to people of different language groups mixing, and trying to adapt to the other people's language
18:12<ben_goodger>mmmm
18:12<ben_goodger>it's a big mess, in other words
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>most notably when the anglo saxons met with the nordic tribes, who share the same language roots, but their languages developed independently
18:12<ln>one stupidity was leaving the thorn or whatever letter out of the alphabet.
18:12<@Bjarni>International English is just like US English: a polluted version of British English
18:12<babyottd>of us gave up
18:13<ben_goodger>ln: Þ?
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>they basically ended up with the least common denominator of both languages
18:13<ben_goodger>it does look rather too much like P, and we manage OK with "TH"
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>influence from roman and french was mostly vocabulary, not so much grammar
18:13<ln>ben_goodger: yeah
18:14<@Bjarni>þ is actually a rune that survived to present day in Icelandic
18:14<babyottd>not actually evil, but Bjarni has no male sauce
18:14<ben_goodger>indeed
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>but contact with those also meant a simplification in grammar
18:14<babyottd>i meant blowing
18:14<@Bjarni>>_<
18:14<ln>ben_goodger: sure you manage as there is no better alternative, but just imagine how practical it would be to have a letter for such a common sound.
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>it's after midnight, babyottd is getting nasty :p
18:14<@Bjarni>Brianetta: babyottd just went really bad :(
18:15<ben_goodger>ln: we have a huge number of sounds that have no letter... it's imperfect but we cope fine
18:15<ln>i guess you could manage without 'v', too, if it wasn't in the alphabet.
18:15<ben_goodger>well, the romans managed without U and W
18:15<babyottd>no u corner : p
18:15<@Bjarni>Arabic works without vowels. I heard it makes reading it interesting at times
18:16<ben_goodger>Bjarni: hebrew also
18:16<babyottd>once also : p
18:16<@Bjarni>resulting in Abdallah and Abdullah to be written in the same way
18:16<babyottd>even the same way
18:16<Brianetta>It's my hat (-:þ
18:16<babyottd>barman's hat !
18:16<ben_goodger>excuse me, I must interrupt
18:16<@Bjarni>Brianetta is a barman?
18:16<babyottd>takes on a whole new meaning
18:16<ben_goodger>what the hell is this babyottd thing?
18:16<babyottd>the hell are you ?
18:17<@Bjarni>hey barkeep... I need another pint
18:17<ben_goodger>is it a really insane human, or some sort of dreadful chat bot?
18:17<ln>also the Great Vowel Shift was... so unnecessary.
18:17<babyottd>with another human
18:17<babyottd>great line
18:17<@Bjarni>ben_goodger: the first :(
18:17<babyottd>the first : p
18:17<ben_goodger>then why is it still here, polluting?
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: well, vowels are very redundant in most cases. if you take the song "Drei Chinesen mit dem Kontrabaß", there's a play with this song, where you replace every vowel with a different one, and pretty much always you can still understand it
18:17<babyottd>( : s still ignoring me
18:17<babyottd>will always eat the cheese, which is what word that
18:18<ln>Brianetta: he has passed the turing test!
18:18-!-babyottd [~babyottd@sarah.ppcis.org] has left #openttd []
18:18<Brianetta>His work is done.
18:18-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g227081142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar]
18:18<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause: unfortunately, many languages including english have plenty of words that are pronounced the same way except for one vowel
18:19<@Bjarni>I would hate to write "you" without vowels
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>english words tend to be shorter than german words ;)
18:19<ben_goodger>heh
18:19<ln>Bjarni: "u"
18:19<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause: true....
18:19<ben_goodger>ln: "u" is a vowel
18:19<ben_goodger>...
18:19<@Bjarni>ln: "u" is a vowel :P
18:19<ben_goodger>*rolls eyes*
18:20<ln>/ju/ is less
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>it's spoken "ju", it can't be a vowel ;)
18:20-!-Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggzzz
18:21<ln>/j/ is a semivowel.
18:21<ben_goodger>er...
18:21<ben_goodger> /ju/ is its "name", /u/ is its pronunciation
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly was this "great vowel shift" about anyway? a->ä, e->i, i->ai, u->?
18:21<Brianetta>Muahahahahah! just doesn't have the same impact without vowels.
18:22<@Bjarni>:)
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: the vowels are still spoken, only not written
18:22<@Bjarni>the same goes for aaaiiiiigggghhhhh
18:23<ln>Eddi|zuHause: this thing that /a/ becomes /ei/, /e/ becomes /i/, etc. yeah.
18:23<Brianetta>Eddi: There was also the consonant shift. S -> T, T -> D, D -> TH etc
18:23<@Bjarni>Brianetta: you can't tell if you write "hahaha" or "hohoho" without vowels though
18:23-!-TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd
18:23<@Bjarni>yet another bot
18:23<ben_goodger>جميع الحروف الساكنة وأحرف العلة لا يجعل من العربية وهو الخلط بين البرنامج النصي.
18:24<@Bjarni>I can't pronounce that
18:24<@Bjarni>it lacks vowels
18:24<Brianetta>Some languages just weren't designed for the typeset press.
18:24<ln>ben_goodger: /u/ alone cannot be the pronunciation of the letter "u".
18:24<ben_goodger>ln: try the second "u" in vacuum
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>most languages are significantly older than the typeset press :p
18:25<ben_goodger>to be fair, arabic did evolve using a brush
18:25<@Bjarni>so did Chinese and Japanese
18:25<ben_goodger>greek and latin had little chisels
18:25<@Bjarni>they don't suffer from that problem
18:25<ben_goodger>no...
18:26<ben_goodger>but if you were to try and accurately reproduce handwritten latin, it would
18:26-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1FB99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:26<ben_goodger>no "s" in any word in my handwriting looks the same as the "s" in any other word
18:26<@Bjarni>にほんご <-- only one way to pronounce this
18:26<ben_goodger>they have different sources and destinations for the pen
18:27<@Bjarni>we can have different sounds for a single letter depending on where the letter is
18:27<ben_goodger>so it would be extremely difficult to try and typeset handwriting
18:27<@Bjarni>like "i" in "Iceland" and "is"
18:27<ben_goodger>yes...
18:27<ln>ben_goodger: there's no second u in vacuum from the pronunciation perspective.
18:28<ben_goodger>there is
18:28<ben_goodger>v-ac-you-oom
18:28<ben_goodger>you're just saying it too quickly
18:28<ben_goodger>:P
18:28<ln>let me check OED
18:29<@Bjarni>ln: you aren't supposed to swallow letters from vacuum when you try to say it
18:29<@Bjarni>even though vacuum tends to swallow stuff
18:29<@petern>there is, if you pronounce it incorrectly
18:29<@Bjarni>and transports sounds really bad (or not at all)
18:30<ben_goodger>Bjarni: remember that the second R is part of the "or" diphthong and hence an honorary vowel
18:30<ben_goodger>so it's really "trnspts"
18:30<ben_goodger>which requires that you say it with two vowels, so it's OK
18:31<Brianetta>It looks like Tyrannospots, the dalmatian dino
18:31<ln>/ˈvækjuɪəm/
18:32<ben_goodger>there you go
18:33<ben_goodger>meh
18:33<ben_goodger>it's irrelevant
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>the german word "Vakuum" has two perfect "u" sounds...
18:33<@petern>IPA: /ˈvækjuəm/, SAMPA: /"v{kju@m/ or IPA: /ˈvækjuːm/, SAMPA: /"v{kju:m/
18:34<ln>in english the length of a vowel never changes the meaning of a word.
18:34<Brianetta>spot, sport
18:34<ben_goodger>true
18:34<ben_goodger>Brianetta: "sport" goes down at the end
18:35<ben_goodger>or rather, it exhibits descending intonation
18:35<Brianetta>I don't think it does. I think it's flat, but lower all the way.
18:35<ln>it's not the same vowel in spot and sport.
18:35<ben_goodger>meh, whichever way, it's not the same vowel sound
18:35<Brianetta>Depends what you mean by lengthening. I can't think of a way, in English, that you'd lengthen any vowel without it being considered some other vowel.
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18:37<ln>and d'ogh, correction to my earlier line: /ˈvækjuːəm/ ... the image was bad quality.
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18:40<ln>bit /bɪt/, beat /biːt/
18:40<fjb>Hm, is that doing something sane: sub_cmd = ++(strchr(cmd, FLU_COMMAND_SEPARATOR));
18:41<TrueBrain>the position after the firt FLU_COMMAND_SEPERATOR char
18:41<TrueBrain>the only thing that suprises me, is that you can do ++ before the statement :)
18:42<TrueBrain>well, why not .. :)
18:42<fjb>sub_cmd points to the char after the separator char?
18:42<vvv444>Will give 0+1 if not found
18:42<TrueBrain>that I just said :)
18:42<TrueBrain>the only bad assumption here is that there is a seperator :)
18:42<@Bjarni>presuming can be quite fast
18:43<TrueBrain>(inside 'cmd')
18:43<@Bjarni>presuming without knowing for sure can be really dangerous
18:43<@Bjarni>specially if you didn't consider error handling
18:43<fjb>Hm, you are right, it doesn't let me use ++ there. :-(
18:43<TrueBrain>fjb: a more readable way to put this, would be: sub_cmd = strchr(cmd, FLU_COMMAND_SEPARATOR) + 1;
18:44<vvv444>I insist on camparing to NULL first...
18:44<vvv444>*comparing
18:44<fjb>Ah, I will try that. But it is really more sane to chek for the separator first.
18:44<TrueBrain>fjb: ++ only works on variables .. which strchr isn't :p
18:45<TrueBrain>not more sane, mandatory!
18:45<ln>I'd say the return value of that thing is not something you can apply ++ to.
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>hm, it crashed again with the same error
18:45<fjb>Comparing to NULL is not required there.
18:46<vvv444>fjb: If you are sure there is a separator it isn't.
18:46<fjb>Oh, ok, the return value. Yes, you are right then.
18:47<TrueBrain>sub_cmd = strchr(cmd, FLU_COMMAND_SEPARATOR); if (sub_cmd == NULL) error(); sub_cmd++;
18:47<TrueBrain>(or ++sub_cmd; as last statement if you want an opcode less :p)
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>how do i recompile with debug symbols?
18:47<vvv444>--enable-debug ?
18:47<vvv444>in configure
18:47<TrueBrain>--enable-debug=3
18:47<@Bjarni>./configure --enable-debug=3
18:48<TrueBrain>also avoids inlines
18:48<TrueBrain>lvl1 only gives symbols
18:48<Sacro>./configure --enable-debug=:3
18:48<vvv444>That's what he asked :)
18:48<TrueBrain>@kick Sacro failure
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18:48<+glx>lvl3 is better for gdb
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18:48<Sacro>3:
18:48<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: lvl3 is dead slow
18:48<+glx>not as slow as MSVC debug
18:48<@Bjarni>but really useful for tracking what went wrong
18:48<vvv444>TB: Does it enable any optimization at all?
18:48<TrueBrain>glx: agree'd :)
18:49<+glx>vvv444: yes -O0
18:49<vvv444>glx: tnx. Btw, MSVC debug can be used with optimizations.
18:49<TrueBrain>vvv444: the name is TrueBrain, use <tab> ...
18:49-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: Operator, give me an exit]
18:50<@Bjarni>it's called "Computer. Exit"
18:50<+glx>vvv444: optimisations may cause bugs (we had that)
18:50<vvv444>TrueBrain: Last time I used IRC was 5 years ago. Thanks for the tip. Sorry for shortening.
18:50<@Bjarni>not Operator :p
18:50<fjb>TrueBrain: Thank you.
18:51<TrueBrain>vvv444: no problem, it is just my IRC doens't light up on TB :p
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>IRC clients had tab completition for more than 5 years :p
18:51<vvv444>glx: I had that too. Moreover, I have had compiler bugs even without (gcc for dsPic processor)
18:52<TrueBrain>compiler-bugs are lovely to trace :)
18:52<TrueBrain>easy to trigger
18:53<vvv444>To disassemble mostly, on embeded processor without proper debugger it just causes reset.
18:53<TrueBrain>(/me points to gcc 2.95 ;))
18:53<+glx>optimisations showed us some undefine behaviour
18:53<TrueBrain>I wish you all a good night
18:53<vvv444>gn
18:53<TrueBrain>fjb: good luck with your assignment :)
18:54<+glx>like func(Random(), Random()) working in debug but failing in release
18:54<+glx>or something like that
18:54<TrueBrain>glx: LOL! Nice example .. bad coding-practice ;)
18:54<+glx>indeed
18:54<TrueBrain>I need to remember that ... :)
18:54<fjb>TrueBrain: Thank you. I start to get used to C.
18:54<+glx>was fun to trace this one reading the asm
18:56<vvv444>glx: What was in that case?
18:56<+glx>order of function calls is undefined
18:57<vvv444>Oh, well, indeed not nice. However, not as bad as compiler bug...
18:58<+glx>same goes for func() | func()
18:58<vvv444>Well the classic example was foo(a++, a++, a++) :)
18:58<+glx>right
18:59<vvv444>About or... I think C does define that A || B evaluate A first.
18:59<vvv444>Same about &&
18:59<ln>and doesn't evaluate B if not needed.
19:01<Yexo>DaleStan: about http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#AI_construction_purchase_selection_18_ The AI has to find an id for the engine to use by itself and can only check if it is allowed to buy that engine. Then the newgrf will provide an id for the wagon to use. <- is that correct?
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19:11<ln>why: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bild:A7-Notbremsweg.jpg
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>#5 0x0816a007 in RoadVehController (v=0x846f0a8) <- how can i now find out which vehicle this is ingame?
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19:14<Eddi|zuHause>it's a tram, but i have like 10 of those
19:14<ln>does "print *v" show anything useful?
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>i have to switch to the right context first
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>$1 = {<PoolItem<Vehicle, short unsigned int, (& _Vehicle_pool)>> = {
19:16<Eddi|zuHause> _vptr.PoolItem = 0x8281ec8, index = 7} [...]
19:19<ln>doesn't look especially useful, but i haven't debugged vehicles
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19:31<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Lohrstadt%20Transport,%203.%20Maer%201920.png <- the game crashes when this tram hits the "dead end" track behind the tram stop (where it's missing the turnaround track)
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19:42<@SmatZ>@openttd commit 14458
19:42<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r14458 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2008-10-10 22:50:31 UTC)
19:42<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Fix [FS#2341](r14368): crash when there was a tram dead end after a station/tunnel/bridge (frosch123 and Rubidium)
19:43<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: ^^^^ should be fixed there
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar did not sync that yet, i'm afraid
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>14417 was the last sync, as far as i can tell
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>right, now it doesn't crash anymore. the tram just gets stuck without telling me...
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20:00<@Belugas>Sacro, no, i have not looked at the industry stuff, and frankly, i do not have the courage to do so, way too tired for that
20:02<@Belugas>and i'm still working for work, but at least at home
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20:04<Sacro>Belugas: heh
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22:03<@Belugas>and mow, i'll sleep
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 18 00:00:06 2008