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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-10-22

---Logopened Wed Oct 22 00:00:13 2008
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02:14<dih>mornin
02:14<@SmatZ>hello
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02:33<@SmatZ>I was so tired yesterday so I fell asleep...
02:34<@SmatZ>and I woke up at 7am, that's strange :-x
02:36<@petern>you fell asleep?
02:36<@petern>wow
02:36*petern is, forcibly, woken at 7 every day :o
02:37<dih>6am here
02:37<dih>i am trying to be at work everyday before 8
02:37<dih>then i can go home earlier :-D
02:38<@petern>with the disadvantage of starting earlier
02:39<@SmatZ>:-)
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02:56*dih yawns
02:56<dih>... hehe .... good yawning :-P
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03:13<dih>anybody here able to solve a trac error?
03:13<dih>http://paste.openttd.org/133525
03:17<@SmatZ>:-)
03:17*SmatZ is not able
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03:51<planetmaker>g'day
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04:03-!-mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ
04:08<@Celestar>hail
04:10<Doorslammer>Ave
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04:16<MURRAY>MORNIN'
04:16<MURRAY>AND HAPPY INTERNATIONAL CAPSLOCK DAY
04:16<planetmaker>OpenTTD ludituri vos salutant!
04:17<Doorslammer>Oh god
04:18<Doorslammer>These Romans are crazy
04:18-!-Mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:23<planetmaker>indeed.
04:23<planetmaker>OpenTTD competition in circus maximus :P
04:23<planetmaker>only the winner won't be fed to the lions :P
04:34-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke]
04:34<@Celestar>The indians have launched their first lunar spacecraft this morning.
04:35<@Celestar>and the Europeans still sit on their fat butts doin' nuttin' in that regard.
04:36<Doorslammer>Um, they have ESA, Ariane etc.
04:36<Doorslammer>Mind you, its all launched in French Guiana or something aint it?
04:40<roboboy>what of source forges services did OpenTTD use?
04:41<roboboy> / what sf services has OpenTTD used?
04:43<@petern>bug tracker and file hosting
04:43<@Celestar>Doorslammer: yes. and they still haven't managed to send as much as a a grain of salt to a lunar orbit.
04:44<@Celestar>let alone lunar surface
04:44<roboboy>so SVN?
04:44<@petern>no, not svn
04:44<@petern>i'd've said svn if it had
04:44<roboboy>so just hosting the compiled version?
04:45<@petern>hosting the releases, including source
04:45<roboboy>was the reason OpenTTD moved that the site was unreliable and slow?
04:45<@petern>sf is fucking shit, yesz
04:45<roboboy>ok
04:48*Doorslammer looks for Ariane 5 explosion
04:48<Zuu>While the sf service is free it is not the best for productive work.
04:50<@Celestar>Doorslammer: ?
04:51<@Celestar>the Ariane 5 has an ... acceptable success rate.
04:51<@Celestar>no comparison against the Delta, Titan or Progress unfortunately.
04:52<@Celestar>or even Ariane 4
04:53<Doorslammer>Maybe, I cant remember it now, it was big news at the time
04:53<@Celestar>yeah
04:53<@Celestar>flight 501
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04:54<Doorslammer>Thats the one, just found it
04:54<@Celestar>157 went badly wrong as well
04:55<@Celestar>and two more partial failures
04:55<Doorslammer>Oh? What one was that?
04:55<@Celestar>the first flight went off course and was detonated back in 1996
04:56<@Celestar>and the first flight of the EC-A variant in 2002 had a failed upper stage
04:56<Doorslammer>Bit crap, aren't they?
04:57<@Celestar>not too crappy
04:57<@Celestar>but if SpaceX can get their Falcon 9 Heavy right, Ariane will be out of business.
04:58<@Celestar>more payload, much lower cost
05:00<@Celestar>and at least theoretically a much higher reliability
05:00<Doorslammer>Nice
05:00<@Celestar>but first they need to launch the Falcon 9 (non-heavy) onto her maiden flight
05:01<@Celestar>the Falcon 9 will be man-rated.
05:02<@Celestar>the Ariane 5 is actually man-ratable.
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05:17<dih>10:23 < planetmaker> only the winner won't be fed to the lions :P <- can we do coop?
05:18<planetmaker>:D
05:22<@Celestar>(=
05:23<dih>yes - ok Celestar, we'll let you coop with us :-P
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05:30<TrueBrain>can I arrange the lions?
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>according to some past future predictions, we should have extensive moon habitats by now :p
05:31<planetmaker>the warp drive is not far ahead on the invention schedule :P
05:31<planetmaker>Nor the rising of magic.
05:31<planetmaker>Depends upon whom you trust.
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05:36<TrueBrain>hmm
05:36<TrueBrain>magic
05:38-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
05:39*TrueBrain waves #openttd a good day ... work is upon me
05:39<TrueBrain>bye :)
05:43<@Celestar>hey
05:44<@Celestar>TrueBrain: you arrange the lions, I arrange the code so that I will win :P
05:44*Celestar loves Alt+SysRq+b :D
05:45<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: we could easily have several moon bases by now if mankind wasn't that busy trying to kill each other and breaking each other's stuff
05:46<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not so sure about that... mankind would never have left the atmosphere if it wasn't trying to kill each other
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>space flight is merely a small side product of military rocketry
05:48<@Celestar>yes
05:48<@Celestar>and that's the fundamental fiscal problem we have in spaceflight
05:48<@Celestar>it's never been made to be efficient
05:49<Eddi|zuHause>both the russian and the american rocket programs are based heavily on german research during the war
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05:54<dih>11:45 * Celestar loves Alt+SysRq+b <- without s and u?
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06:16*Brianetta prefers Alt-SysRq-o
06:17<Brianetta>When I press Alt-SysRq, Compiz asks me where to save the screenshot )-:
06:18<scarabeus>@seen TrueBrain
06:18<@DorpsGek>scarabeus: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 39 minutes and 18 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> bye :)
06:19<scarabeus>again in wrong time :]
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06:25<dih>Brianetta: try ctrl+alt+sysRq
06:25<dih>:-P
06:29<Mortal>isn't it called print screen?
06:30<Brianetta>Mortal: Alt-SysRq is supposed to be intercepted by the Linux kernel, regardles of other functions.
06:30<dih>only if it's enabled
06:30<Mortal>oh, that way
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06:31<dih>but you can enable a sysrq-trigger file in /proc
06:31<dih>and then simply echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger
06:32<Eddi|zuHause>is there any information on what these sysrqs do?
06:32<dih>s = sync (hdd's)
06:32<dih>u = unmount
06:32<dih>b = reboot
06:33<dih>there is also e, but i cannot remember what that one is for
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06:35<SpComb>raising elephants is so utterly boring
06:37<dih>no - elephants are fun... esp the little ones
06:37<dih>so full of energy
06:37<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: sysrq (h)elp, presumeably, there's also some kind of list on wikipedia, under "Magic SysRq key"
06:37<yorick>no, skinny ones are much better
06:37<dih>and always to be had for some fun
06:37-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.203.221] has joined #openttd
06:37<dih>jsut the mother gets in the way :-D
06:38*SpComb had to REISUB his workstation a couple times last week
06:38<SpComb>X got completely stuck when you logged out or closed/killed the session
06:38<yorick>RSEIUB!
06:38<SpComb>and then it started detecting three nonexistant USB devices every second
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06:47<Brianetta>Magic SysRq *is* enabled. It just doesn't work in X.
06:48<Brianetta>This makes it: A fat load of use.
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06:56<dih>Brianetta: even with ctrl+alt+sysrq?
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07:32<@Celestar>while [ 1 ]; do beep; done
07:34<dih>LOL
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07:35<dih>Celestar: that would be something to do on a dedicated server :-D
07:35<@Celestar>the problem is, this gets ssh-forwarded :(
07:35<@Celestar>I need to do it on a remote box :S
07:35<dih>you can configure xterm how to handle bell
07:35<dih>or put the connection in screen and configure screen
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07:36<@Celestar>in screen I could only find stuff about the visual bell
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07:37<yorick>\07 :)
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07:39<@Celestar>man there must be a way to trigger the system beeper of a remote box :S
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>echo the bell character to a terminal not in your ssh session?
07:40<yorick>echo -e "\07"
07:41<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: yes
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07:45<@Celestar>or any other way to make a computer generate noise (apart the coolers & disks)
07:45<yorick>reboot?
07:45<welshdragon>use pulseaudio
07:46<@Celestar>can't. a process is running which I shouldn't interrput
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07:46<welshdragon>aah
07:46<@Celestar>isn't pulseaudio a little over the top? :P
07:46<dih>Celestar: how about somthing in proc?
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07:46<@Celestar>dih: explain?
07:47<dih>or find how to create a character device for it :-P
07:47<dih>perhaps there is something in /proc that will trigger the system bell to beep
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07:47<dih>or perhaps there is a device you can create with mknod
07:47<dih>that will do the same
07:47<@Celestar>hm
07:47*Celestar goes looking
07:48<@Celestar>there's /dev/dsp but that's not the speaker
07:48<dih>but what if there is no speaker?
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07:49<yorick>there's always a speaker...
07:49<dih>else a small c app should be able to do it
07:50<dih>yorick: not true, but that is not what i wanted to say
07:50<@Celestar>there is a speaker
07:50<dih>i wanted to say, what if there is no audio configured
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07:50<dih>perhaps dsp then outputs to the speaker
07:50<@Celestar>dih: system beep, not audio (=
07:50<yorick>system beep is likely to be there
07:50<dih>if dsp has nothing to output to, the system might beep, all i am wanting to say
07:50<@Celestar>dsp is configured apparently, because I've already tried cat /boot/vmlinuz > /dev/dsp
07:51<dih>lol
07:51<dih>i once managed to play songs via the pc speaker :-D
07:51<@petern>snd_pcsp
07:51<dih>not present on all systems, however, it will prob be easy to create it with mknod
07:51<+glx>pc usually don't have real speaker now
07:51<dih>just need the correct params
07:52<@Celestar>petern: ?
07:52<dih>they have a we little beeper
07:52<dih>and if it's too loud you put a drop of hot glue on it
07:52<dih>and it can do more than just 'beep'
07:53<yorick>can it beep with multiple tones?
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07:53<@Celestar>I just need beeps
07:53<@Celestar>I need to locate this damn box
07:53<yorick>you forgot where it is?
07:53<dih>and beep does not work (the command)?
07:54<+glx>echo ^G should work too
07:54<@Celestar>beep outputs to the ssh session
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07:54<dih>Celestar: trigger it via a cron job :-P
07:54<yorick>or could it be possible that you are sshing to your own machine?
07:54<@Celestar>yorick: nope :P
07:54<@Celestar>since I know the location of that one :P
07:55<@petern>yeah, "beep" works
07:55<@petern>though it's hard to hear ;D
07:55<dih>lol
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07:55<@petern>ah, i can hear 2200Hz well
07:55<yorick>I wonder if openttd will output the BELL char to the terminal...
07:56<@petern>now to scare colleagues ;D
07:56<@Celestar>petern: how are you doing this :D
07:56<@petern>using "beep"
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07:57<@petern>coo, you can make it play music ;)
07:57<dih>:-)
07:57<dih>told ya
07:57<@Celestar>I don't manage :P
07:57<dih>hehe
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07:58<@petern>for i in {20..30}; do beep -l 100 -f ${i}00; done
07:59<@Celestar>er
07:59<@Celestar>that puts out a string to my console :P
08:00<@petern>is it suid root?
08:00<dih>Celestar: have 'beep' processed by busybox? :-P
08:00<Sacro>never trust any command that needs to be setuid root
08:01<dih>:P
08:01<@Celestar>:P
08:01<@Celestar>which beep
08:01<@Celestar>which: no beep in (/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/root/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/games:/opt/kde3/bin:/usr/lib64/jvm/jre/bin:/usr/lib/mit/bin:/usr/lib/mit/sbin:/usr/lib/qt3/bin)
08:01<@Celestar>:P
08:01<dih>make ./openttd suid root
08:01<dih>Celestar: locate beep :P
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08:02<@Celestar>:P
08:02*Celestar goes doing some WORK
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08:04<@petern>well you'll have to install it then
08:04<@petern>oddly enough, these things have to be installed to work ;)
08:04<@Celestar>;)
08:05<@Celestar>this clearly isn't my day
08:05<@Celestar>I can't read files from the cluster
08:05<@Celestar>i can write them
08:05<@Celestar>i can create them
08:05<@petern>now i need something to convert musical notes to frequencies...
08:05-!-Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
08:05<@Celestar>I can list them.
08:05<@Celestar>petern: er simple.
08:05<@Celestar>A4 is 440 Hz.
08:05<@petern>yes, i know
08:05<@petern>i was meaning "not manually"
08:06<@Celestar>every note above/below is *2^(1/12) more/less
08:06<+glx>I'm quite sure a tool exists
08:06<@Celestar>yeah, it's called "piano"
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08:09<Brianetta>My piano has USB MIDI support
08:09<dih>yay
08:10<dih>you could connect it to my lovely mac and start recording various instruments using garage band
08:10<Brianetta>or I could connect it to my lovely Linux PCs and have OpenTTD's music come out rendered by the glorious Roland GM2 processor.
08:11<dih>oh nice
08:11<dih>a Roland :-)
08:11<Brianetta>Yes. They let me borrow for it.
08:11<dih>good make though
08:11<Brianetta>Couldn't afford £1800 otherwise.
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08:12<dih>a christian company :-P
08:12<Brianetta>oh yuck
08:12<Brianetta>I thought they were Japanese
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08:15<Brianetta>I can't find any evidence supporting the assertion that they're a Christian company.
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08:20<dih>could be that it's just the branch in germany
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08:22<yorick>"...is a Japanese manufacturer"
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08:23<dih>yorick: that does not say that it's not christian :-P
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08:24<yorick>you've seen christian japanese?
08:24<dih>?
08:24<dih>what's wrong with that?
08:25<dih>i know chinese christians - in fact there are many many of them
08:25<dih>even in china
08:25<dih>underground church groups
08:25<yorick>http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-434333/Roland-supports-Christian-music-market.html
08:25<yorick>much is wrong with that
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08:26<dih>Roland was at the Promicon 2007
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08:26<dih>and nothing is wrong with that at all
08:27<yorick>lets go into the christian - atheist bash topic
08:28<keyweed_>oooh. bashing!
08:28<dih>yorick: if you have an issue with roland supporting christians then visit them, send them a letter, phone them
08:28<keyweed_>which side are we on?
08:28<dih>yorick = atheist
08:28<dih>at least that is what the young kid believes he is :-D
08:29<dih>uh oh - i used the wrong word
08:29<dih>sorry yorick
08:29<yorick>~(
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08:30<yorick>"young"
08:30<dih>(:-D)=
08:30<dih>anything wrong with that word?
08:30<yorick>what would you consider an "old kid" then
08:30<keyweed_>i'm an agnost and usually considder myself neutral, but i can argue from any side :)
08:30<yorick>keyweed_: at least I know...
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08:30<dih>yorick: no - you dont know anything
08:31<dih>Belugas knows
08:31<yorick>about whales
08:31<keyweed_>at least i'm smart enough to know my human limitations.
08:31<dih>aye
08:31<dih>they are always quite obvious :-P
08:32<yorick>and white
08:33<yorick>(talking about the whales, not about the humans and/or limitations)
08:34<dih>i was just about to ask if that was a racist comment
08:35<Brianetta><yorick> you've seen christian japanese?
08:35<Brianetta>Yes, yorick: My aunt
08:35<yorick>your aunt is japanese?
08:36<dih>and she's christian :-P
08:36*yorick touches Brianetta
08:36<Brianetta>My aunt is Japanese, yes, and she's a Christian.
08:36<Brianetta>Her husband, my uncle, is Australian. They teach English in Hiroshima.
08:37<yorick>wasn't that bombed?
08:37<Brianetta>Yes, it was.
08:37<dih>14:36 * yorick touches Brianetta <-- WTF
08:37<Brianetta>It didn't *stay* bombed.
08:37<yorick>nuclear?
08:37<dih>yorick: you should pay more attention at school
08:37<dih>you seemingly only have picked up bits and pieces
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08:38<yorick>they only teach me about china
08:39<dih>well - there are christians too :-P
08:39<Brianetta>http://eavesdown.org/miscellany/japan/hiroshima/index.html
08:39<yorick>wasn't it something with nuclear bombs that people can't live there?
08:40<Brianetta>er, no
08:40<Brianetta>FOr a time, perhaps
08:40<Brianetta>but it was, what, over 60 years ago
08:40<+glx>and it was a "small" bomb
08:40<Brianetta>Indeed
08:40<dih>hehe
08:40<Brianetta>Only a few kiloT
08:40<Brianetta>Air-burst, too
08:40<Brianetta>low fall-out
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08:42<keyweed_>they sill have more birth defects and cancer there though.
08:43<dih>had the bom exploded a few meters above the ground it would have had a worse effect...
08:43<dih>*bombs
08:43<Brianetta>Yeah
08:44<Brianetta>It was 0.5km up
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08:44<Brianetta>killed more people instantly, but fewer long-term
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08:45<dih>educational hour to be continued when the kid returnes
08:45<Brianetta>The state of education today is shocking.
08:45<keyweed_>indeed
08:45<Brianetta>I blame the fall of the Berlin Wall.
08:45<dih>lol
08:45<keyweed_>I blame the french
08:45<Brianetta>"Why's that there?" is a question that led to *everything
08:46<dih>that has like nothing to do with it
08:46<Brianetta>My wife only knows what I've taught her about the Cold War
08:46<Brianetta>She was born in 1982
08:46<dih>blame the stasi for a few in the DDR, but fall of the wall being blamed for bad education in europe/the world?
08:47<dih>Brianetta: i was born in 82
08:47<keyweed_>i think 'the simpsons' are also to blame.
08:47-!-Metalcore is now known as MetalCalc2
08:47<Brianetta>dih: I think the Berlin Wall was an abhorrent creation, sure, but it was a concrete representative of so much history, in a figurative and literal sense.
08:48<Brianetta>I never saw the Berlin Wall, but I did stand at the main east/west border in Bavaria
08:48-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
08:48<Brianetta>The world just ended there
08:48<Brianetta>a weird feeling
08:48<keyweed_>when the ddr stoped spying on its own citizens, someone had fill the gap
08:48<Brianetta>Helen and I went to Berlin last Christmas
08:49<keyweed_>now all western goverments have stasi-like monitoring systems.
08:49<Brianetta>That city is as cool as f***
08:59-!-ln is now known as LN
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09:07<@Belugas>dih: what do I should know?
09:07<Eddi|zuHause><Brianetta> I never saw the Berlin Wall, but I did stand at the main east/west border in Bavaria <- it was not as funny from the other side...
09:07<@Belugas>hello all, by the way
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>although, as i was only 8 years old, most of the bad stuff i kinda did not experience
09:09<Vikthor>(15:07:11) Eddi|zuHause: <Brianetta> I never saw the Berlin Wall, but I did stand at the main east/west border in Bavaria <- it was not as funny from the other side... -- and it's not like it wasn't possible to cross it(even legally)
09:09<Brianetta>Vikthor: I was at Eußenhausen. Being a checkpoint, security was tighter for a good few miles each way.
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>it was possible, but basically only if you were above 65 years old
09:09<Brianetta>I was only there on a school exchange trip.
09:10<LN>probably easier the other direction?
09:10<Vikthor>Eddi|zuHause: Not true, at least for Czechoslovakia
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>my mother was once allowed to cross the border, because a relative died. but that was only possible because she could not take family members with her, so she had reasons to come back
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09:12<Brianetta>The DDR was probably the most authoritarian government in the Warsaw Pact. Even more so than the USSR.
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>i know "Uncle Walther" from Wolfsburg only from photos
09:12<LN>my mother went to buy a train ticket to the west in DDR, and the person behind the desk had been quite surprised.
09:12<Vikthor>My aunt married a Frenchman in '68 and later according to international treaties on human rights goverment had to allow at least one trip a year for whole family
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>there was regular cross border traffic anyway, because of the transit zones from west germany to west berlin
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09:14<@Belugas>go Yexo go!
09:14<@Belugas>mmh... guess it's the time for my medecine
09:14<@Belugas>coffee!!!
09:15<Zuu>Going off-topic from the DDR/religious discussions, is there a tool out there that can simplify my work of keeping code seperated into diferent subsequent patches? Would be cool if I could tell Tortoise SVN that for this directory tree use patch, X, Y and Z + trunk as base for this directory. Anyone knowing something I can look into?
09:16<Zuu>(for Windows)
09:16<blathijs>Zuu: I think you should look into quilt
09:16<blathijs>Not sure if it is available on Windows, though
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09:17<@Belugas>Zuu, mostly, i have my repos named upon what they are meant to do
09:20<Zuu>repos being checked out source trees or do you have a local SVN to which you commit code for the diferent patches?
09:21<@Belugas>depends
09:21<Zuu>blathijs: http://quilt.sourceforge.net/ ?
09:22*Sacro uses mercurial
09:22<Sacro>actually, that might be able to do it
09:22<Sacro>if you clone the repo
09:22<Sacro>manually patch
09:22<Sacro>and then pull changes from trunk and merge yourself
09:23<@Belugas>at work, i have 4 "standard" repos, which i put work i did at home on. So if ever i need to commit something from work, i have to choose and commit from those 4 . Unless it's not a commit related to any work in progress, in that case, i have a general repo
09:23<@Belugas>at home, it's the free-for-all. i have about a dozen repos, spread on 2 disks. whatever is required is used as a commit one
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09:24<@Belugas>and with visualvsn, i just commit right from the MSVC environnement
09:24<@Belugas>that is, when i do commit... which is a bit rare lately ;)
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09:25<Sacro>I use visualhg from VS2005
09:25<Sacro>s/5/8
09:25<Sacro>/
09:25<Sacro>and I have TortoiseHG installed for explorer
09:25<Sacro>mainly cos SVN confuses me
09:25<Sacro>hg just works (tm)
09:25<@Belugas>i promised myself to try hg once. promised still pending to be fulfilled
09:25<@Celestar>man
09:26<@Celestar>analysing two terabytes of data is boring
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09:26<Zuu>SVN works so far, just that having to maintain many subsequently depending patches becomes quite some work.
09:26<batti5>im sorry about this guys, i tried my best to respect the rules, if it would be possible to avoid a permanent ban, this suff will not repeat ever.
09:26<SpComb>Celestar: first step is to load it all into memory
09:28<batti5>i just tried to be a good ttdforum member, i did not intened to due any harm.
09:28<@SmatZ>yeah, what's bad about tomboys thread?
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09:30-!-lobster is "Michiel das Biquel" on @+#lobsterlair #openttd #z.radio #tycoon
09:30<@SmatZ>as there is "Pretty girls" thread...
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09:31-!-lobster is "Michiel das Biquel" on @+#lobsterlair #openttd #z.radio #tycoon
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09:31<@Belugas>zuu: at home, it's mostly Tortoise and VisualVSN. At work, it's purely VSN . it works quite well :)
09:32<Zuu>Okay.
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09:34<Zuu>I would love to get my hands on VS non-express so I can use ViEmu and other plugins, but don't feel like signing the MS academic license which I think is to restrictive nor cracing it.
09:35<@SmatZ>why ViEmu ?
09:35<@SmatZ>you can code in vim :-)
09:35<Aali>Zuu: seems i was a little late to this discussion but you want mercurial queues
09:36<Zuu>SmatZ: But using an external editor to an IDE gives you problems, but yes I fire up gVIM sometimes.
09:36<Zuu>Aali: Not to late, thank you for your suggestion.
09:38<Aali>it will let you keep a number of patches in a list, with simple commands to reverse/apply patches
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09:41<Aali>so you can move to any patch in the list and the repo will contain original files + any patches up to and including the one your working on
09:42<Aali>make some small change, refresh the patch (saving those changes) and move back down to the end of the list and you've got all your patches applied again
09:42<Aali>its really great once you get the hang of it
09:43<Aali>definitely blows SVN out of the water
09:43<blathijs>Zuu: No, http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/quilt
09:43<blathijs>Zuu: But it seems quite un-google-able, I picked this url out of the Debian package :-)
09:44<Zuu>blathijs: Thanks, indeed the other one I found seamed a bit out of the place.
09:44<Aali>oh and mercurial queues is based on quilt
09:44<Aali>so they should be quite similar
09:44<blathijs>Zuu: I haven't actually worked with quilt before, only tried a bit once
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10:27<Swallow>I'm (still) having a strange problem with my new memory pool...
10:27-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
10:27<Swallow>new (0) Restriction() works fine
10:28<Swallow>but new Restriction() causes a freeze for several seconds, and then the game closes, without error message whatsoever
10:28<Swallow>Can anyone point me in the right direction?
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10:30<+glx>Swallow: is there a diff somewhere?
10:30<@Celestar>new (0) looks bad to me
10:31<+glx>Celestar: no it forces the pool index
10:31<+glx>but it's used on game load only IIRC
10:31<@Celestar>ah
10:31<@Celestar>so an overloaded new operator?
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10:32<+glx>yes
10:32<Swallow>new Restriction() also uses an overloaded new operator IIRC, albeit a different one
10:32<@Rubidium>Swallow: I guess your "default" constructor doesn't initialize a new pool item as invalid, causing OpenTTD to not find an "empty" index, making more items which also aren't empty ....
10:33<@Rubidium>until the pool is completely full and it blows
10:33-!-Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
10:33<@Rubidium>and overriding the new constructor might cause big problems too
10:34<Hirundo>Rubidium, that's a good one, give me a minute to check some stuff.
10:35<Hirundo>I think the default constructor was the problem...
10:35*Hirundo feels ashamed
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see anything to be ashamed of
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>don't ever be ashamed of errors
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10:38<Hirundo>Well, anyway, many thanks :)
10:38*Hirundo continues patch-writing happily
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11:02<scarabeus>TrueBrain: well again just testing if you are around, poke me if you get here :]
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11:05<fjb>Are true and false defined in C today?
11:05<+glx>I don't think so
11:05<frosch123>sometimes yes, sometimes no
11:06<fjb>Ok, thank you.
11:06<@SmatZ>it isn't
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>the compiler will usually tell you if it isn't :p
11:09<frosch123>iso c++ 98 defines "false" and "true" as reserved keywords
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>that is C++, not C
11:10<frosch123>yes, I interpreted "C today" as C++
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>that's a problem of the naming, because C++ is technically not really a "successor" to C, more a parallel language development
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11:12<Eddi|zuHause>"french" is not "latin++" either...
11:12<frosch123>sure, there are also people using csh
11:15<fjb>I simply don't use true ore false if I can not be sure if it is defined in standard C.
11:16<frosch123>in standard c you can hardly use anything
11:16<fjb>Maybe ANSI C then.
11:17<frosch123>e.g. you can configure some c compilers, so that they do not allow variable declarations inside "for", e.g. "for (int i = 0; ...)"
11:18<fjb>I'm aware of that.
11:20-!-taytay [~tcohen@linagoraberri.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:21*frosch123 always says: when object oriented programming would have been introduced in a c style way, "public" would have been represented by "**" and "private" by "***". "protected" would have been "****" as it was added later
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11:21<frosch123>though "*" is far to common, maybe "°"
11:22<DaleStan>But that's not 7-bit clean.
11:23<frosch123>hmm true, I thought it was
11:24<DaleStan>One of `, @, or $, more likely -- they are 7-bit clean, and with no defined meaning AFAIK.
11:26<@Belugas>hein???
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>$ reminds me of basic...
11:26<@petern>Belugas, they're being crazy
11:27-!-Zuu [~Zuu@c-143c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
11:27<@Belugas>ha
11:27<frosch123>Belugas: I remember you saying that once before, but I also did not understood it there...
11:27<@Belugas>"hein" is like... "huuu"
11:27<@Belugas>or "what the fuck are you saying"
11:27-!-Zorn [zorn@e177226255.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
11:30<frosch123>Belugas: I was just elaborating that c++ would be a nice language, if it wasn't based on c
11:30<@Belugas>ha
11:30<@Belugas>ok
11:30-!-Zorni [zorn@g224107045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:31<@Belugas>well... i'm pretty happy with what Delphi offers, so i compensate :)
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>C++ would be a much nicer language if it was based on python :p
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>(actually, i am really amazed of the python syntax)
11:31<frosch123>is python the language with the imporant indenting, or was that php?
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes, python is with the indenting
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>which you should do anyway, because of coding style
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>the advantage is, that you can leave out those pesky {}, which are difficult to type on localized keyboards
11:33-!-Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet641.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:33<LN>one needs to indent what one intends.
11:34<frosch123>the disadvantage is that you cannot copy&paste temporary code, and that you cannot use with crappy editors that do not show white space and add spaces and tabs to their liking
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure if you add static types and some declarative sugar you can easily design a compiled language worthy of replacing C++
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the space/tab issue is a problem
11:35<Zuu>And if typing {} is a problem changing keyboard layout can be an option.
11:35<frosch123>or you can use "begin" and "end
11:36<frosch123>or if you are more the 60/70ths gui, use "if" and "fi" :p
11:36<Zuu>:)
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>latex is a little worse with the bracket structure...
11:37-!-sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B508C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:37<frosch123>I guess I once searched "esac" in a dictionary, when I was not used to such stuff :)
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
11:38*Zuu hugs his altgr-based keyboard layout with special keys on the "normal" alphabetical keys + alt gr.
11:38<frosch123>isn't that standard for non-windows ?
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>ðđđħŧ¶
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>those characters are not particularly useful in programming languages :p
11:39<Zuu>;/()| = first five keys on my homerow (with alt gr)
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>and especially not in non-utf8 environments
11:39<Sacro>↓is stupid
11:39<LN>does python support non-ascii in identifiers?
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>↑→↓←
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>LN: no
11:40<frosch123>reminds me, german keyboard contains a "§" key, which was in the range 0-31 under dos
11:40<frosch123>some programs were killed by pressing it...
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>but in strings, if you add an encoding line at the top of the file
11:40<LN>Eddi|zuHause: how sad. java *sort of* does doesn't it.
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: oh yeah, i remember that ;)
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but most programs just ignored the key
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>but § IS an important character in bureaucracy-regulated germany ;)
11:42<Zuu>I'd say that variable names should stay in English, so need for non-ascii characters is low.
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: german has very specific rules on how to replace äöüß in environments that do not support these characters
11:44<@Belugas>mmh... you and your python...
11:44<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: none for ë and ï though
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: those are not part of the german language (most of the time)
11:45<frosch123>yeah, "most of the time"... I hear that sentence often... mainly from customers :s
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>but really, words like the french "naïve" are written with "i" in german even in environments that support ï
11:47*Belugas 's stomach is making disturbing sounds
11:47<frosch123>or names like "daniël"
11:47<@Belugas>for once, colleagues do not complain about my music
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: honestly, i have never ever seen that before :p
11:48<LN>Zuu: but what if one wants to write code and doesn't know english?
11:50<Zuu>LN: well, yes I do have made programs with variables in swedish and even worked with programs that has mixed var names, but it become ugly unless you find a programming language that is also in your native language.
11:50<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: usually they only appear in surnames like http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henning_Bo%ABtius
11:51<frosch123>something killed that link...
11:51<frosch123>he is named "boëtius"
11:53<+glx>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henning_Bo%C3%ABtius
11:53<+glx>you lost a %C3
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>some clients interpret als "colour" command code
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>some clients interpret %C als "colour" command code
11:55<svippery>Some clients sucks. :)
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>like mine, for example :p
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>it's solved here by doubling the %
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>which it does automatically on copy-paste
11:56<Brianetta>In English, the Umlaut is correctly named a "diacritic mark" and signifies that a vowel pair is a diaeresis and not a diphthong.
11:56<svippery>Not only the umlaut, Brianetta, all diacritics are diacritics.
11:56<Brianetta>So naïve is a natively spelled English word.
11:56<svippery>Oh dear, did I just state the obvious?
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: that's because umlaut and diacritic are substantially different things
11:56<planetmaker>If found above e or i, it's the same meaning.
11:56<Brianetta>svippery: 'fraid so
11:56<svippery>Just like mêlée, Brianetta?
11:56<planetmaker>... in German
11:57<Brianetta>svippery: circumflex and acute. We have specific names for them ones. (:
11:57<svippery>But a combined name?
11:57<@petern>pâté :D
11:57*Brianetta shrugs and says, "meh."
11:57<svippery>I did not realise "meh" meant that! O_O
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>german spelling rules usually say "you can just leave out this french mess" :p
11:58<svippery>Lucky the Danish spelling rules says "write it how it looks best, regardless of origin".
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>means the words are "naiv" and "Armee"
11:58<Brianetta>Eddi: English rules say that it's an English mess too. We could (although it's unconventional) spell vacuum as vacuüm.
11:59<svippery>Why? Isn't the double u one vowel?
11:59<Brianetta>svippery: Nope.
11:59<svippery>A better explain would be cooperation.
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: that'd look significantly wrong in german :p
11:59<svippery>Which the New Yorker continues to spell "coöperation".
11:59<Brianetta>Eddi: Good job it isn't German (:
11:59<Brianetta>That's correct, too. A diacritic oo.
11:59-!-[alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
12:00<Brianetta>skiïng
12:00<Sacro>svippery: no, double u is a consonent
12:00<planetmaker>:D
12:00<@petern>:o
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>everybody just knows that "Vakuum" is spoken with separate vowels, instead of one long vowel (which is usually meant by doubling a vowel)
12:00*Brianetta buries Sacro in mud
12:00<Sacro>double u = w
12:00*Brianetta tarmacs over that mud
12:01<planetmaker>you spoilt the joke, Sacro :S
12:01-!-welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:01<svippery>It's odd though, "coordinate" is used in Danish as "koordinat", but the 'oo' is only one vowel in Danish, which is not common in Danish (to have more than one vowel character create a single vowel).
12:01<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: Vakuhm :p
12:01<svippery>In other words, we don't favour vowel clusters.
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: Kuh dich selber :p
12:01-!-Roujin [~ubuntu@mnch-5d85e5cf.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
12:01<svippery>:) Luckily "vacuum" is spelt "tomluft" in Danish.
12:02<svippery>Which translate literally as "empty air".
12:02<planetmaker>Aotearoa <-- you'll like Maori language, I guess :P
12:02<Roujin>cheers
12:03*Zuu waves for nordic languages, let it be Danish in this case :)
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>hm... "Help, i get outperformed by the AI" topics are kinda fun ;)
12:03<@Belugas>double u = w ???
12:03<@Belugas>mmmhh.. true
12:03<svippery>Just shows the logic of English, Belugas.
12:03<svippery>Or rather, lack there of.
12:03<@Belugas>in french, it's double v
12:03<svippery>So it is in Danish.
12:03<@Belugas>good :)
12:04<svippery>At least we retain some logic.
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: in old roman texts you often find U written like V
12:04<svippery>Why?
12:04<svippery>Because they did not have an U.
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>no, they had no V
12:04<planetmaker>Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu <-- you also wouldn't want to live near that mountain :)
12:04<@Belugas>no, pronunciation changes over time
12:04<@Belugas>as well as writing
12:05<planetmaker>wow... 6 vowels in a row o_O
12:05<Roujin>i german, they skip calling w "double something" and give it its own name in the first place :P
12:05<Roujin>*in
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12:06<LN>don't try this at home: http://www.ts.fi/kotimaa/?ts=1,3:1002:0:0,4:2:0:1:2008-10-22,104:2:571814,1:0:0:0:0:0:
12:07<ben_goodger_>what an appalling URL scheme
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merseburger_Zaubersprüche#MZ2_.E2.80.93_Pferdeheilung <- an occurance of "double u"
12:07<+glx>friction is powerful
12:07<ben_goodger_>the person who came up with that ought to be taken to the presence of tim berners-lee and shot as an example
12:08<LN>ben_goodger_: i know, and one can even leave some stuff out of it and it still works.
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>"Phol ende uuodan uuorun zi holza.
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>du uuart demo balderes uolon sin uuoz birenkit."
12:08<ben_goodger_>good grief
12:08<ben_goodger_>LN: what's with the caps?
12:09<dih>Brianetta, i looked at the red dwarf stuff - i like it :-)
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>where a modern transcription would replace those either by "W" or by "F"
12:09<LN>ben_goodger_: the international CAPS LOCK DAY is a good opportunity to educate people about the fact that my nick is not "In".
12:09<ben_goodger_>aha
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>[That is the oldest written occurance of old german, btw.]
12:09<ben_goodger_>silly people ought to use a monospace font...
12:10<ben_goodger_>hmm
12:10<ben_goodger_>my name has put out a tendril
12:10*ben_goodger_ snips tendril
12:10-!-ben_goodger_ is now known as ben_goodger
12:10<ben_goodger>there we are
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>[Actually, that is the only written occurance of old german]
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>LN: TRWTF is the bridge has no emergency stop mechanism for such an occurance
12:15<ben_goodger>quite difficult to pin down a single language to call "old german", I suppose, considering the region was hugely varied in culture and politics for quite a while
12:16<frosch123>LN: Ï ĵüşţ ŵäñţ ţö pöïñţ öüţ ţħäţ ćäpş ïş ćömpöşë föŕ më
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>the correct naming is "old high german" anyway
12:16<ben_goodger>hehehehehe
12:16<frosch123>damn, that took long
12:16<frosch123>and I dislike "p" and "m"
12:16<ben_goodger>frosch123: you forgot the Ps and Ms
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>ben_goodger: the people at that time called their language "frankian" anyway, the word "deutsch" evolved much later
12:17<ben_goodger>well, I suppose the franks did
12:17<ben_goodger>what of the goths?
12:18<ben_goodger>and all the other civilisations I've heard about through Age Of Empires II.... :P
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>the goths were not part of the "frankian empire"
12:18<ben_goodger>no, but they must have spoken a proto-germanic tongue
12:18<Vikthor>frosch123: try this ṕ ḿ :p
12:19<dih>NukeBuster made a server crash by crashing trains :-)
12:19<dih>bug report follows
12:19<frosch123>Vikthor: thanks, but my default font, does not even know them :)
12:20<ben_goodger>indeed, ṕ is missing from my display font (but not my interface font)
12:20<Brianetta>dih: Have all eight series on DVD
12:20<Vikthor>it's acute, try fonts with support for Slavic languages
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>displays fine here
12:21<dih>Brianetta, you want to mail the first one to me? i'll mail it back after watching it :-P
12:21<Brianetta>dih: Sign up to lovefilm.com
12:22<Brianetta>Use the code RAF96 and the email address helen@ppcis.org for a referral discount
12:22<Vikthor>though it's strange because none of these two actually makes any sense in Czech and most probably not even in other Slavic languages
12:22<Brianetta>When I say use that address, I mean use it as a referrer
12:23<Brianetta>stick RAF96 into the gift code bit
12:24<dih>openttd: /home/fairplay/openttd/src/rail_map.h:501: bool HasSignalOnTrackdir(Til
12:24<dih>eIndex, Trackdir): Assertion `IsValidTrackdir(trackdir)' failed.
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>ben_goodger: most likely is that the gothic tribes more or less slowly adapted the local (latin) dialects spoken in the lands they invaded (iberia, italy)
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>like the west francs did
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>hence they developed the language "french"
12:25<ben_goodger>hmm, ok
12:25<ben_goodger>my point being, the peoples living in the area now defined as germany cannot have had a single language to call "old german" at any point before the 19th century, which is hardly "old"
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>which is the reason why the east franc population needed a new name for their own language
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>ben_goodger: language historically, "old german" refers to a period around the 8th to the 10th century
12:27<ben_goodger>quite
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>"middle german" from the 10th to the 14th century
12:27<ben_goodger>indeed
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>and "modern german" from the 14th century onwards
12:27-!-apo_ [~apo@pD9E7D866.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>german is heavily split in dialects, though
12:27-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>which is mainly a north/south split, which explains the "high" and "low" german variants
12:28<ben_goodger>and at the time of "old german", I am under the impression that no language was spoken exclusively in (or throughout) the land that is now germany
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>"high" and "low" referring to the height of the landscape
12:28<ben_goodger>yes
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>low german, dutch and english being heavily derived from old saxon
12:30<@petern>this is why you should all speak english
12:30<@petern>it's the 'all inclusive' language
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>ben_goodger: the language difficulties between the dialects only affect people who actually travel, which mainly reduces to the nobility and high clerical layers of the society, in those, often educated, societies, latin evolved as a quasi-standard language
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>later, especially since the 17th century, french took over that part
12:32<dih>now that company passwords are hashed, can they not be stored in the save game on the server?
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>dih: no, as you would not want the hash to be sent to clients
12:33-!-welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: net kill]
12:34<dih>true
12:34-!-apo [~apo@pD9E7FA73.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:36<Ammler>additional passwd file :-)
12:38<dih>Ammler, yeah - htpasswd :-D
12:38<dih>but it's a different hash :-P
12:38<planetmaker>:P
12:38<Ammler>ottdpasswd
12:38<dih>upload your own public key to join this company at a later stage
12:38<dih>:-D
12:39<Ammler>well, key-pair support would be just awesome
12:39<dih>way over the top
12:39<Ammler>:-D
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13:19<dih>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2378 <- michi_cc
13:19<dih>have a present for you :-P
13:19<dih>does not work with steamers :-P
13:20<@SmatZ>:-)
13:21<dih>slowly it's paying out to having an autoupgrading nighly :-P
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta stopped his nightly server because too many features were developed in branches, and too few differences were between nightlies, so it did not repay the cost of restarting the game and losing the passwords each day
13:32-!-Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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13:33<dih>i have a new game each day
13:33<dih>and i am after the bug reports, not hosting providing fun :-P
13:33-!-Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit []
13:33<dih>but nobody has to know that so sshht
13:36-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
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13:39*SmatZ cares
13:44<scarabeus>btw what timezone is TrueBrain?
13:45<@SmatZ>CEST
13:45<@SmatZ>if he hasn't moved :)
13:45<frosch123>his timezone, or the timezone of his country?
13:45<Zuu>Belugas [13:21] <SmatZ> comment would be nice
13:45<Zuu>Belugas [13:21] <SmatZ> + } else if (wi->type == WWT_EDITBOX) {
13:45<Zuu>Belugas [13:22] <SmatZ> why that TAB ?
13:45<+glx>frosch123: good question ;)
13:45-!-batti5 [~batti5@92.84.14.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:52<scarabeus>his would be more usable for me
13:52<scarabeus>since i need to talk to him not to his country
13:52<scarabeus>:D
13:53<dih>heh
13:53<dih>his bouncer is offline again?
13:53<planetmaker>show time is between 20h and 24h CE(s)T :P
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14:00<@Belugas>WWT_EDITBOX)<TAB>{ <- replqce tab by space
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14:02<@SmatZ>Belugas: PMed already :)
14:04<Zuu>A version 3 is on the way...
14:05<@Belugas>hehe
14:05<@Belugas>youhou
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14:14<frosch123>damn german forum, I cannot stop laughing :s
14:17<@Belugas>hapens on a lot of "external" forums :)
14:19<Zuu>Belugas: You don't need to spend your day reading my longish comment on FS#2375 as the stuff after the dots is what I've said to you earlier.
14:21<scarabeus>is this integrated in your svn/git/whatsoever https://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=162532
14:21<scarabeus>?
14:21<frosch123>Zuu: wouldn't it be better to not pass those extra arguments to the constructor but instead overload OpenOSKWindow()
14:21<frosch123>btw. I guess OnOpenOSKWindow would fit better
14:22<Zuu>frosch123: That is a good idea I didn't think of.
14:24<Zuu>Thank yau
14:24<Zuu>you*
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14:26<Zuu>OnOpenOSKWindow would call ShowOnScreenKeyboard or would it return the ok/cancel parameters?
14:27<Zuu>Having OpenOSKWindow calling ShowOnScreenKeyboard makes sense, but OnOpenOSKWindow seams less logic to me.
14:27<frosch123>directly calling looks easier and more flexible
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14:28<frosch123>i.e. thinking of cpp-gui, one would move that event to the edit box class
14:29*Zuu nods
14:30<Zuu>cpp-gui, are there plans to make clases of the widgets? Or just being a wish for future?
14:31<frosch123>it is the standard answer for solving fs#1072 :)
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14:40<LN>what's a nice place to visit in france?
14:40-!-Booth [~Booth@82-32-210-243.cable.ubr07.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
14:41<Sacro>LN: england
14:41<Booth>ln england
14:41<frosch123>eurodisney of course :)
14:42<@SmatZ>england, definitely
14:42<LN>Sacro: i thought admiral nelson did his job better?
14:42<Sacro>heh
14:42<Booth>churchill FTW
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14:55*Zuu deliveries another version of the unified_open_osk patch and goes and buy pizza :-p
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15:02<Prof_Frink>LN: Anywhere the French aren't.
15:03<frosch123># [...] und vor Paris steht Mickey Mouse [...]
15:03<LN>Prof_Frink: certain areas of Paris?
15:03<LN>suburbs
15:04-!-Burty [burty@88-108-114-25.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit []
15:09<@Rubidium>scarabeus: no, that is not applied. Any reasons why it should be applied?
15:09<scarabeus>well mostly we use it in gentoo because it is not working without it if we want to disable/enable iconv based on user needs
15:11<@Belugas>"are we going to be sued if we are not PCI Compliant ?"
15:11<@Belugas>yeah.. right...
15:11<@Belugas>that is what I call a campaign of fear!
15:12<frosch123>what does pci mean in this case?
15:12<@petern>payment card industry
15:13<Prof_Frink>frosch123: What a copper sees with.
15:13-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
15:13<@Rubidium>scarabeus: that's just plain silly (IMO) because OpenTTD's configure script sets $with_iconv to "0" by default *unless* configure is ran a) on OSX (AFAIK Gentoo is not OSX) or b) with the parameter --with-iconv. If it user needs iconv, run `configure --with-iconv` and if the user doesn't need it run `configure`
15:14<scarabeus>well we have flags $(use_with iconv) and it add -disable -enable based on user settings, so you say if i have iso8869-2 setting instead of utf i wont need iconv?
15:14<@petern>Belugas: who's suggesting someone would be sued?
15:14<scarabeus>Rubidium: ^
15:15<@petern>the best bit about pci-dss is none of the banks are compliant
15:16<@Belugas>a customer. we are not yet compliant so far, and the poor customer fears been sued by VISA-MASTERCARD
15:16<@Belugas>indeed :)
15:16<@petern>being ;)
15:16<@Rubidium>scarabeus: I didn't say that
15:17<@Belugas>and my boss cannot put in his head that the compliancy just comes when you are STORING a track 2...
15:17<@Belugas>being... right... one day i'll make the difference
15:17<@Belugas>he thinks that we can avoid compliancy if we do not TOUCH the track2
15:17<@Belugas>so let the 3th party do the job
15:18<@Belugas>let me laugh
15:18<@petern>hehe
15:18<scarabeus>Rubidium: so we shoud add only --with-iconv and dont add --without-iconv if i get it correct?
15:18<@petern>we're currently going through yet another pci-dss audit
15:18<@petern>it's total pain in the bum
15:19<@petern>every time the requirements have changed slightly
15:19<@petern>every time they go through the same stuff that hasn't changed
15:19<@Rubidium>scarabeus: --without-iconv doesn't add anything iconv related to the LDFLAGS nor CFLAGS
15:19<@petern>and every time they take our word for it
15:20<@Belugas>lol
15:20<@Belugas>and grab the money at the same time :)
15:20<@Belugas>i
15:20<@petern>yup
15:20<@Belugas>ve heard it cost around 30000$ each time
15:20<@petern>it's not cheap :o
15:20<scarabeus>oh right i am little tired and reading bady, for us is not working --with-iconv, so if i wont need it in this game if i use iso8859-X i am ok with removing that flag but are you sure it wont cause issues?
15:20<@petern>hmm, don't remember exactly, not something i have to deal with
15:21<@Belugas>nor do I, but my boss raised it as one of the reasons not to go through it
15:21<@Rubidium>scarabeus: I've never used iconv
15:21<@Rubidium>scarabeus: but iconv isn't a library?
15:21<@petern>i don't think it was that expensive
15:22<scarabeus>Rubidium: actualy i overtaked that patch and there is not in changelog why it was added i am just pretty sure that it does not compile withouot
15:22<@Rubidium>scarabeus: have you tried?
15:22<scarabeus>yup
15:22<@petern>Belugas, the first time we had them in, they demanded we *turn off firewalls* so that they could scan the PCs
15:22<@Rubidium>because we have never received any complaints about iconv not compiling from anyone, except gentoo
15:23<@petern>i really don't think they understand what they're doing
15:23<@petern>actually it wasn't that
15:23<@petern>on windows servers, we have windows network disabled... and their system uses that and all the rpc stuff to see what's going on
15:23<@petern>so when it can't find that out, instead of flagging it up as secure, it flags it up as unreachable and untested
15:24<@Belugas>ho...they were actually trying to sniff your network
15:24<@petern>needless to say when we enabled it they complained about remote rpc and the like being enabled
15:24<@petern>i.e.
15:24<scarabeus>Rubidium: well is it even anyone using nowdays?
15:24<@petern>what their software needs to work
15:24<scarabeus>most of distros is utf
15:24<@petern>i.e.
15:24<@petern>they're fucking idiots
15:25<scarabeus>Rubidium: btw 0.5 didnt need this patch
15:25<@petern>Belugas, yeah, first of all we had to drop the restrictions on the switches, because they're configured only to allow certain hosts...
15:25<@petern>pci-dss auditors don't understand security, they understand their scripts.
15:26<@petern></rant>
15:28*Rubidium wonders what library provides iconv; can't find a library with iconv in it's name on my system
15:29<scarabeus>dev-libs/libiconv
15:30-!-nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:30<scarabeus>http://www.gnu.org/software/libiconv/
15:33<@Rubidium>so there's a library called iconv
15:33-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:33<@Rubidium>and if there's a library called iconv, why can't it link against that?
15:35<@Belugas>as usual, petern, as usual... Same when you're doing a certif. "Pass me a debit transaction with a credit". "But i cannot, I check the service code after swiping" "Dont' care, i have that test to verify"
15:35<@Belugas>prrrrrrrt
15:37<frosch123>hmm, I have an "iconv.h" but no libiconv, and dev-libs/libiconv is masked and not emerged
15:39<frosch123>iconv.h seems to come from glibc
15:40<scarabeus>/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.3.2/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -liconv
15:41<scarabeus>it really is not working without that patchie
15:41<frosch123>yup, and configure only checks for iconv.h, which exists
15:41<@Rubidium>ah... so that lovely OS called OSX is doing even more non-standard things...
15:41<frosch123>and the "copyright note" of iconv.h refers to glibc, which also contains the symbols defined in the .h
15:42<scarabeus>yeah this is apple issue
15:42<scarabeus>it should not work on any linux this way
15:42<scarabeus>they have that dynlib
15:43<scarabeus>or how they call it
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15:45<@Rubidium>now the question is: what OSes really need -liconv and which ones don't?
15:45<scarabeus>we dont need it
15:45<scarabeus>for us it works
15:45<scarabeus>without that liconv
15:45<scarabeus>that was tested
15:45<Sacro>I don't think Arch needs it
15:45<Sacro>ldd doesn't show it
15:46<scarabeus>so no need for gentoo and arch
15:47<scarabeus>i would say no need in POSIX systems
15:48<@Rubidium>it's just that OSX needs it and is posix compliant
15:48<+glx>it's needed for windows :)
15:48<+glx>but iconv is optionnal there
15:49<@Rubidium>so there needs to be a test that checks whether -liconv is needed or not
15:49<scarabeus>Rubidium: well i think about osX as something that says that it is posix compilant
15:49<scarabeus>:D
15:50<+glx>it's BSD based
15:51<@Rubidium>only the posix specs are posix compliant ;)
15:52<frosch123>"The libc plug/override mode. This works on GNU/Linux, Solaris and OSF/1 systems only. It is a way to get good iconv support without having glibc-2.1. It installs a library preloadable_libiconv.so. This library can be used with LD_PRELOAD, to override the iconv* functions present in the C library." <- http://www.gnu.org/software/libiconv/
15:52<scarabeus>okok
15:52-!-XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
15:52<scarabeus>well you are right
15:52<frosch123>that that mean, only those have iconv included in glibc?
15:53<frosch123>*does that
15:53<scarabeus>it is for those whom does not have >=glibc-2.1
15:53<scarabeus>i am looking on virtual
15:53<scarabeus>and here we pull it only if user does not have this or use fbsd and other
15:54-!-Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
15:57<scarabeus>i hope you will integtrate some patching in next release so i wont be forced to patch it :]
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15:57<@Rubidium>can someone with OSX test whether OTTD still compiles with http://rbijker.net/openttd/iconv_issue.diff ?
15:58<@Rubidium>scarabeus: the above should solve your issue
16:01<scarabeus>workie
16:01<scarabeus>great
16:01<scarabeus>no patches in gentoo for next release
16:01<scarabeus>(i might convince mr_bones to add it into main tree now)
16:01<scarabeus>:D
16:01<scarabeus>read with next release ;]
16:01-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad9f862.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:03<scarabeus>s/read/read as/
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16:04<planetmaker>Rubidium: works here with r14409.
16:04<planetmaker>*r14509
16:08-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad923c6.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
16:11-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
16:11-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
16:12<LN>you are late
16:12<@SmatZ>hello Bjarni
16:12<@Bjarni>me?
16:13-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]]
16:13<@Bjarni>hello SmatZ
16:13<LN>01:11 < fjb> Is Bjarni back tomorrow?
16:13<LN>01:12 < ln> fjb: based on the fact that he wasn't here today or yesterday, i'd say yes, he'll
16:13<LN>be here tomorrow at 11:03 CET.
16:13<@Bjarni>...
16:14<fjb>Hi Bjarni, we were thinking about you yesterday because somebody had the idea of an kick day.
16:14-!-ben_goodger_ [~ben@host81-153-25-139.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:15-!-d-mike [~mibindsei@p4FC265CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
16:15<@Bjarni>ok, what did Sacro do this time?
16:16-!-Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai
16:19-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad923c6.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:19<@Bjarni>looks like he did the unmentionable :(
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>it's LN's fault
16:24-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:25<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:25-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:25<@Bjarni>it's always LN's fault
16:26<@SmatZ>4 patches in 4 minutes, and DorpsGek is quiet :)
16:26<@Bjarni>that's why we prefer ln
16:26<frosch123>SmatZ: CIA
16:26<@Rubidium>scarabeus: DorpsGek isn't quiet
16:26<@Rubidium>uhmm SmatZ :)
16:26<+glx>tab failure detected
16:26<scarabeus>what?
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>your tab failure detector needs to kick in earlier ;)
16:27<scarabeus>oh
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>it should be a pre-msg-hook :p
16:27<@SmatZ>:)
16:27<scarabeus>well cia is not working whole day for us in gentoo
16:27<scarabeus>:D
16:27<@Rubidium>why doesn't tab completion use brainwaves to determine what user to talk to
16:27*glx kicks CIA-5
16:27<CIA-5>ow
16:27<@SmatZ>hehe
16:27<@SmatZ>lol
16:27<+glx>it's not dead
16:27<scarabeus>well it works for me in tabcomp in weechat
16:27<@Rubidium>their mail server probably is
16:27-!-elmex [~elmex@e180066141.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:27<scarabeus>but in this quassel i am scared even to write whois
16:28<@SmatZ>:-)
16:28<@Bjarni>I like how that tab failure made scarabeus active in this channel :D
16:29<Eddi|zuHause># I'm not dead just floating
16:29<Eddi|zuHause># I'm not scared just changing
16:29<frosch123>Bjarni: he was active until you joined :p
16:29<@Bjarni>heh
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>[22.10.2008 22:03] <scarabeus> s/read/read as/
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>[22.10.2008 22:11] --> Bjarni hat den Kanal betreten (~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk).
16:30<scarabeus>ow i like this kind of highlight
16:30<scarabeus>:D
16:30<scarabeus>for that i will kick your cia
16:30*scarabeus kicks CIA-5
16:30<CIA-5>ow
16:30<scarabeus>;]
16:31<@Bjarni>now I should take action
16:31<@Bjarni>however CIA is perfectly well at defend itself
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>this is actually one of my favourite songs
16:33<@Bjarni>what song?
16:33<scarabeus>unknown artist\unknown album\track 03.ogg
16:33<scarabeus>?
16:33<scarabeus>:D
16:33<@Bjarni>yeah
16:33*Bjarni turns up the volume
16:33<@Bjarni>this song is awesome
16:34<@SmatZ>I like that one, too
16:34<@SmatZ>unknown artist is the best
16:34<svippery>:s
16:34-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffb67.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:34<svippery>Man, why isn't Coldplay unknown?
16:34<@Bjarni>?
16:35<svippery>Well, cause I am listening to their '42' right now.
16:36<svippery>Oh and, enjoying some crisps.
16:37-!-welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:43<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: http://www.lastfm.de/music/Pink/_/I'm+Not+Dead
16:47-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.162.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:47<@Belugas>"Artificial Intelligence is nothing compared to natural stupidity"
16:47<@Belugas>nice ;)
16:48<svippery>What about Artificial Stupidity?
16:48<svippery>Eddi|zuHause: What is wrong with last.fm?
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>svippery: it automatically redirects me ;)
16:49<svippery>It is trying to force its German agenda down upon you!
16:49<svippery>First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin.
16:49<@Bjarni>that's not a good song :(
16:49<@Belugas>"Problem in this world is that idiots are sure of themselves, while brainy ones have doubts"
16:49<Nite_Owl>Been reading the posts on the forum again Belugas
16:49<@Bjarni>besides... that group name... "Pink".... gay :P
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>it's a woman...
16:50<svippery>:/
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>please tell me you have heard of Pink before...
16:50<svippery>Did he not realise?
16:50<svippery>I have, and I don't like her.
16:50<@Bjarni>I have heard of Pink
16:50<@Bjarni>and I still think it's a silly name
16:50<@Belugas>Nite_Owl?
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>i don't like most of her songs, but i really love this one
16:51<@Bjarni>no, Pink
16:51<Nite_Owl>There have been a rather large amount of "substandard" forum posts of late
16:52<Nite_Owl>I rather not name names
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>i noticed that, too...
16:54<@Belugas>ho... well... getting used to it. And i don't answer as often as i used too
16:54<@Belugas>there is that guy, NekoMaster
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>might be due to the september phenomenon ;)
16:54<@Belugas>wahtever is a Neko,
16:54<@Belugas>htat's the only thing he mastered so far
16:55<@Belugas>apart from stupidty, of course
16:55<@Belugas>and attitude...
16:55<@Belugas>and to think he's canadian :S
16:55<@Belugas>booooo
16:56<Nite_Owl>Ahh yes "The Future Set" thread
16:56<@Belugas>among others
16:57<Nite_Owl>I had a good laugh at that one today
16:58*Belugas gets home
16:58-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
16:58<@Belugas>bye bye
16:59<Nite_Owl>Mostly due to DaleStan's "soil yourself" response
16:59<Nite_Owl>Later Belugas
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>"Future" as in >2010 isn't likely to affect my OTTD games anyway
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17:02<@SmatZ>hahahaha @ http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=738562#p738562
17:04<yorick>...
17:05<Zuu>:rolleys:
17:05<dih>that is awesome :-D
17:06<Nite_Owl>Too funny
17:06<@SmatZ>:-)
17:06<scarabeus>you have great users
17:07<scarabeus>i am sad that most of them cant handle gentoo so we dont have such nice comments
17:07<@SmatZ>:-)
17:07-!-LN is now known as ln
17:08<scarabeus>btw how is that we need orginal GRP files- What train set are you using?
17:08<scarabeus>- Which version of TTDPatch are you using?
17:08<scarabeus>- Can you post a screen shot of your train purchase window?
17:08<scarabeus>hm sorry
17:08<Zuu>Couldn't he/she turn on the lights before (s)he took the webcam photo..
17:08<scarabeus>dont bother
17:08<scarabeus>this is pasto
17:08<scarabeus>stupid client :(
17:09<@SmatZ>:-)
17:09<Zuu>Always the tools fault, no matter what statistics says... :p
17:10<scarabeus>well you should see quassel
17:10<Zuu>(road traffic statistics says about 90% of accidents are driver error)
17:11-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
17:12-!-mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:12<scarabeus>http://marenka.sh.cvut.cz/~scarab/configuraky/png/quasell.png
17:12<Zuu>dih: ottd wiki for a problem with TTDPatch?
17:12<scarabeus>Zuu: road statistic says that 20% accidents are made by drunk drivers, so whom let the sober ones into streets
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>he fell in the same trap that i did...
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>scarabeus: so why is that client any different from any other irc client?
17:13-!-Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet626.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
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17:14<scarabeus>because i use this one: http://marenka.sh.cvut.cz/~scarab/configuraky/png/weechat.png
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>and "quasseln" is a quite fitting german translation of "chatting" ;)
17:15-!-mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
17:16<Zuu>scarabeus: What does Quasell have to do with WeeChat?
17:16<scarabeus>that i cant use gui client
17:16<scarabeus>at all
17:16<scarabeus>weechat asks when i press middle mouse button
17:16<scarabeus>this paste
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17:17<scarabeus>hey the person i am waiting for :]
17:17<TrueBrain>scarabeus: sorry, working long hours lately
17:17<scarabeus>no prob.
17:17<TrueBrain>:)
17:17<TrueBrain>finally ;)
17:17<TrueBrain>I see iconv patch is committed :)
17:17<scarabeus>yes i convinced the others :]
17:18<TrueBrain>nice job ;)
17:19<TrueBrain>the problem I have with iconv in ebuild ... is that we produce iconv-less binaries for .. well .. as long as this project is here, and as far as I can track, never had a problem
17:19<TrueBrain>as it slows down the game a bit, and most Gentoo users have 'iconv' in their USE, I wonder if it would do more harm than good ..
17:19<ln>what does the patch do?
17:20<scarabeus>nopes we have really fast systems and systems from 2004 does not have iconv by default
17:20<scarabeus>so we are pretty ok in this
17:20<scarabeus>i am more concerned about that elog talkie in the end of the ebuild
17:20<scarabeus>did you read that
17:20<TrueBrain>hehe, 'really fast systems' is not a real argument ;)
17:21<TrueBrain>I have a 2007.1 and 2008.0 base install, and 'iconv' is active by default ..
17:21<scarabeus>hm
17:21<scarabeus>2008.0 not enabled
17:22<TrueBrain>but what about the elog?
17:22<scarabeus>desktop $ cat make.defaults |grep iconv
17:23<scarabeus>if i am not saying some wrong stuff in there
17:23<scarabeus>so it is correct :]
17:23<scarabeus>but i guess i didnt miss anything
17:24<TrueBrain>why oh why do you need to modify my ebuild completely every time ;) Lol :p
17:24<TrueBrain>I make it more readable for myself, you put everything back in one statemet :p
17:25<scarabeus>i need to convince mr_bones to open games overlay for users
17:25<TrueBrain>and the annoying DESTDIR got back in :p Get that out for good will you? :)
17:25<scarabeus>so this wont happen :]
17:25<scarabeus>and i am just lazy to post diffs
17:25<TrueBrain>+ use dedicated && myopts="${myopts} --enable-dedicated --without-sdl"
17:25<TrueBrain>- else
17:25<TrueBrain>- myopts="${myopts} --enable-dedicated"
17:26<TrueBrain>diff between mine and yours
17:26<TrueBrain>I like mine better (the '-' one)
17:26<TrueBrain>--without-sdl is not needed (--enable-dedicated disables all video outputs)
17:26<scarabeus>ook
17:26<TrueBrain>(there is a reason I change things :p)
17:27<TrueBrain>and the elog stuff at the end looks good to me
17:27<TrueBrain>I am sure someone can write a better story, but it is clear, and understandable
17:27<TrueBrain>(and not false)
17:28<TrueBrain>btw, 'layman -o http://packages.openttd.org/gentoo/layman.txt -a openttd'
17:28<TrueBrain>contains 'openttd-trunk' and 'openttd-noai'
17:28<TrueBrain>(nightly-builds, ebuild is updated every night)
17:28<TrueBrain>I will merge your changes back into them soon :)
17:29<TrueBrain>I still wonder about 'iconv', but I don't really care .. so we just keep it :)
17:29-!-Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.188.172.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:29<scarabeus>TrueBrain: did you hear about proxy-maintaining?
17:29<TrueBrain>proxy-what? :)
17:29<TrueBrain>(so that is a no :))
17:30<scarabeus>:D
17:30<scarabeus>it means that someone write the ebuild and gets the credit, dev is used only to commit the ebuild into cvs and for reviewing
17:30<scarabeus>well i am not sure if mr_bones will allow this to me because i am not member of games herd...
17:31<TrueBrain>sorry, I don't understand what you try to say ..
17:31<scarabeus>well that means you would be the manintainer since you have the live ebuild and so on...
17:31<scarabeus>and i or other dev could do the commiting
17:32<scarabeus>so not again waiting 2-3 months for next release
17:32<scarabeus>but as i say i have to ask mr_bones first
17:32<TrueBrain>hehe, it is a bit insane for OpenTTD currently .. :p
17:32<TrueBrain>having a 0.5 in the portage ...
17:33<scarabeus>actualy i am waiting if they will accept me in games herd, so if they i have some plans about games status in gentoo :]
17:34<TrueBrain>Anyway, I was happy to see someone else taking an interest in the OpenTTD ebuild :)
17:35<@SmatZ>yeah :-)
17:36<TrueBrain>and I really hope they remove the hard mask from 0.6.3 soon .. as you can't override that mask from within an overlay (or at least, all my attempts failed)
17:36<scarabeus>you can do it :P just create profile/package.unmask iirc this should still work
17:36<TrueBrain>scarabeus: STILL 'DESTDIR' ..
17:37<scarabeus>or Documentation/package.unmask which user simlink
17:37<TrueBrain>do I need to slap you with a fish or something? :p Hehe
17:37<scarabeus>Damn
17:37<TrueBrain>scarabeus: check my overlay .. it contains that file, and it doesn't work :(
17:37<TrueBrain>(not from within the overlay, that is)
17:37<scarabeus>:(
17:37<TrueBrain>and a VERY minor thing:
17:37<TrueBrain>myopts="${myopts} --enable-dedicated " <- extra space :p
17:37<TrueBrain>hahaha :)
17:38<TrueBrain>(sorry, I couldn't resist :))
17:38<scarabeus>that is why i use git first
17:38<scarabeus>or cvs
17:38<scarabeus>because pple can tell me what they dont like
17:38<scarabeus>and i fix it
17:38<TrueBrain>the reason OpenTTD uses SVN, Git or Mercurial too, yes :)
17:39<scarabeus>ok i will not update it again
17:39<TrueBrain>but we are getting there ;)
17:39<scarabeus>or i will burn our old bugzilla
17:39<scarabeus>and you update your live ebuild
17:39<scarabeus>and we use live ebuild as base for 0.6.4
17:39<@SmatZ>:-)
17:39<@SmatZ>if there will be 0.6.4
17:39<scarabeus>since i am sure that i wont get clearance before that release
17:39<TrueBrain>there won't be any, most likely, but 0.7 ;)
17:39<scarabeus>ok so make it 0.7
17:40<TrueBrain>btw, if you check openttd-trunk on that url (you can walk it via http)
17:40<TrueBrain>it contains 'icu' as dep
17:40<TrueBrain>(required with recent versions)
17:41<@SmatZ>optional :-P
17:41<TrueBrain>of course :)
17:41<@SmatZ>:-
17:41<@SmatZ>)
17:41<scarabeus>oh this
17:41<scarabeus>no rpoblem
17:41<@SmatZ>bah I broken my smiley
17:41<@SmatZ>-n
17:42<scarabeus>nononono no icu
17:42<scarabeus>because in that case we would have to move this flag from local to global :D
17:42<TrueBrain>how do you mean?
17:43<@SmatZ>hmhm call it ... rtl_support then :)
17:43<@SmatZ>TrueBrain: local / global USE flag :)
17:43<scarabeus>just kidding :D
17:43<@SmatZ>:-)
17:45-!-Metalcore is now known as MetalDiningHall
17:46<scarabeus>btw is there any way of replacing grf files with something open? i know that noone cares that it is abandonware...
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>there is an OpenGFX project ongoing
17:47<@SmatZ>it is possible, but there are no sets with all GRFs replaced
17:47<@SmatZ>except sample.cat
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>some work has already been done to make the game capable of switching between the base sets, but the open sets are not finished yet
17:48<scarabeus>is there some progress bar? :]
17:48<Zuu>An empty sample.cat could do the job, can't it (or even making sample.cat optional), as playing without sound is not a big problem.
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know... the forum has a graphics section, and probably the wiki has information about it, but i have not looked at anything specific
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: afaik having not the correct amount of sounds in sample.cat causes trouble with newgrfs containing sounds
17:50<TrueBrain>testing my latest ebuilds ...
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: but i think there is a full set of replacement sounds in the forum, only it depends on a patch to have more than 8bit sounds in sample.cat
17:51<Zuu>Okay, I've seen the project but didn't knew they got that far.
17:52<scarabeus>well in that case we can make that installable on gentoo and maybe some users will help with improvements
17:52<TrueBrain>scarabeus: http://packages.openttd.org/gentoo/overlay/games-simulation/openttd-trunk/openttd-trunk-14513.ebuild <- if you would mind reading it over .. it is 0.6.3, without scenarios (we don't do that for nightlies), with 'icu' (which I wonder about the most), and some customized warning at the end ;)
17:53<TrueBrain>(it btw fails on iconv currently, but tomorrow night that iwll be fixed .. I don't feel like adding a patch for 24 hours of not working :p)
17:54<TrueBrain>glx: would you mind syncing NoAI with trunk?
17:54<scarabeus>TrueBrain: why you just dont press enter :D line 45 like line 44 would be nice
17:54-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:55<scarabeus>would not be easier to create one -9999 ebuild?
17:55<scarabeus>and dont bother with snapshots
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17:55<scarabeus>in result user would not download so much stuff
17:55<scarabeus>if he updates
17:55<TrueBrain>scarabeus: better like this?
17:56<TrueBrain>not download so much stuff? How would that differ?
17:56-!-MetalDiningHall is now known as Metalcore
17:56<TrueBrain>and I considered -9999, but not only does the revision matter for multiplayer, also we have 'trunk' and 'noai' (where noai is an extension of trunk), which I would both like to publish :)
17:56<scarabeus>okokok
17:57<scarabeus>svn eclass can handle branches ;]
17:57<scarabeus>you can even make it use dependable :D
17:57<scarabeus>but i am just picky
17:57<scarabeus>i dont like that ewarn in the bottom
17:57<TrueBrain>http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=169482 <- this patch is a _very_ small subset of the real patch .. and in fact not really correct in this form ;)
17:57<scarabeus>i will give you better solution
17:57<TrueBrain>I don't mind you being picky, it is why I ask you :) I know nothing about a 'svn eclass', so I hav eno idea if it is more useful
17:59<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: that patch is no better then the other gentoo iconv patch
17:59<scarabeus>well i am currently doing some stuff with live kde ebuilds so i had to understand them :]
17:59<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I agree :)
18:00<TrueBrain>bah, Rubidium, your patch doesn't work on 0.6.3 out-of-the-box ..
18:00<TrueBrain>let me backport :p
18:01<TrueBrain>okay, it does work, just 'trac' fucks up :(
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18:01<scarabeus>http://www.pastebin.cz/10624
18:01<scarabeus>this add into pkg_setup
18:01<Zuu>Night all
18:01-!-Zuu [~Zuu@c-143c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:01<scarabeus>or into something like that
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18:03<TrueBrain>scarabeus: http://packages.openttd.org/gentoo/overlay/games-simulation/openttd/files/libiconv.patch
18:03<TrueBrain>use that as libiconv.patch, is what I would suggest
18:03<TrueBrain>a proper backport of the real fix :)
18:03<scarabeus>ok add it yourself aw
18:04<scarabeus>you dont have access to block my additions
18:04<scarabeus>ok i will do
18:05<TrueBrain>;) Tnx!
18:05<TrueBrain>updated -trunk and -noai with your suggestion
18:05<TrueBrain>oh, you said pkg_setup .. does that matter?
18:06<scarabeus>not actualy it is just common sense to write this *before* the actual merge
18:07<scarabeus>so user can break it and think again
18:07<TrueBrain>k
18:07<TrueBrain>pkg_setup it will be
18:08<scarabeus>also i can see i missed two ewarns so promote them into elog
18:08<TrueBrain>sorry?
18:08<scarabeus>well there are two ewarn commands
18:08<scarabeus>s/ewarn/elog/
18:09<scarabeus>nothing more nothing less
18:10<TrueBrain>you mean those about the dedicated? You mean they should be 'elog', not 'ewarn'?
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18:12<scarabeus>well elog is written again after all other merges ended up
18:12<scarabeus>ewarn is not
18:12<scarabeus>so i guess people should see it even when compiling lots of packages at once
18:13<TrueBrain>ewarn shows up at the end too here ...
18:13<TrueBrain>but elog is fine by me :)
18:14<TrueBrain>all changed
18:14<TrueBrain>including the openttd-0.6.3.ebuild
18:15<TrueBrain>I hope I didn't forget/missed anything :)
18:17<TrueBrain>anyway, I really should find my bed now .. tnx a lot scarabeus for all the feedback and help :) I hope this ebuild gets in portage very soon .. but I am afraid it will not :)
18:17<TrueBrain>Good luck with getting into games herd :)
18:18<TrueBrain>and good night to you all!
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18:18<@SmatZ>n TrueBrain
18:23*Bjarni wonders why people go search for their beds at night
18:23<@Bjarni>mine is obeying me and stays where I leave it
18:24<scarabeus>well i am going to bed too
18:24<scarabeus>so see you tomorow all :]
18:24<@Bjarni>it would be kind of scary if I came home one day and the pillow and stuff were on the floor since the bed ran away
18:25<ln>with a constant number of Sacros waiting on the bed?
18:25<@Bjarni>o_O
18:25<@Bjarni>>_<
18:25<@Bjarni>that would be really bad
18:25<@Bjarni>I would have to figure out how to get rid of the bodies
18:26<ln>my bed has a constant number of Sacros, and that's zero.
18:26<@Bjarni>good point
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19:02<ben_goodger>good evening, openttdists
19:03<@SmatZ>hello, ben
19:03<ben_goodger>is anything happening?
19:04<@SmatZ>not really...
19:04<@Rubidium>besides the usual debugging not much I think
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19:09<ben_goodger>how annoying
19:09<@SmatZ>what would make you happy, ben_goodger?
19:10<ben_goodger>probably only a huge dose of tricyclics, melatonin and years of intensive psychotherapy
19:10*SmatZ can't provide
19:10<ben_goodger>but for this evening, I was hoping for some sort of stimulating discussion about openttd or some such thing, as is usual for this channel
19:11<@SmatZ>too late I am afraid :(
19:11<@Rubidium>ben_goodger: go to OpenTTD's wikipedia deletion page!
19:11<ben_goodger>otherwise, I may be forced to read this book on financial resources planning
19:11<ben_goodger>ack, wikipedia is administered by a lot of prats...
19:13<+glx>they are silly
19:14<ben_goodger>as recently discussed on slashdot, evidence is considered less important than citation
19:14<@SmatZ>ben_goodger: go read that book, don't let (O)TTD(P) stop you from reading it / studying!
19:14<ben_goodger>I'm not studying finance, that's the trouble
19:14<ben_goodger>I just got it out of the library because it is 472 pages long and will therefore occupy a lot of otherwise wasted time in reading it
19:15<@Rubidium>or... write a scientifical paper about OpenTTD so OpenTTD becomes notable
19:15<ben_goodger>hmm
19:15<@SmatZ>ben_goodger, you are strange :-)
19:15<ben_goodger>yes, yes I am
19:15<ben_goodger>thank you for your support
19:15<ben_goodger>I believe I will do an overall rewrite and pile in the citations on this article
19:15<ben_goodger>stop those officious bastards from deleting it...
19:16<@SmatZ>:-)
19:17*Rubidium wonders what a scientific paper about the notability criteria applied on the OpenTTD page on wikipedia would do for the notability of OpenTTD
19:17<@SmatZ>:-)
19:18<Nite_Owl>I need to feed - later all
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19:18<ben_goodger>hmm
19:18<ben_goodger>openttd is written only partly in C++, yes?
19:19<@Rubidium>depends on the definition of C++
19:19<@Rubidium>technically all of OpenTTD is compilable as C++
19:20<@Rubidium>though large parts are also compilable as C
19:20<ln>deleting articles is wikipedists' way of feeling important.
19:20<@SmatZ>OTTD uses non-standard-compliant C++ :) but luckily it compiles by most compilers :-)
19:21<ben_goodger>right...
19:22<@Rubidium>the most used compilers don't even complain about it
19:24<+glx><@SmatZ> OTTD uses non-standard-compliant C++ :) but luckily it compiles by most compilers :-) <-- with some hacks for gcc 2.95 ;)
19:24<@SmatZ>hehe :-)
19:24<+glx>but it compiles and works
19:25<@Rubidium>gcc 2.95 isn't a C++ compiler, more a C+0 compiler ;)
19:25<@SmatZ>:-)
19:26<ben_goodger>there's a GCC 2?
19:27<ben_goodger>good lord, I'm too young for this
19:28<@Rubidium>ben_goodger: you don't want to know
19:28<ben_goodger>you are correcg
19:30<ben_goodger>gah, this article is exceedingly difficult to write
19:32<ben_goodger>and I usually pride myself on my communications skills
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19:39<SpComb>there's plenty of mentions of OpenTTD spread out on Wikipedia
19:39<SpComb>silly deletionists
19:40<ben_goodger>is anyone willing to be a citation-diver for me?
19:40<SpComb>not at this time of day
19:40<ben_goodger>I have never been any good at phpbb's search function
19:41<@Rubidium>but the forum isn't notable ;)
19:42<@Rubidium>ben_goodger: just google with site:tt-forums.net
19:42<ben_goodger>hmm
19:42<@Rubidium>though you should just add the citations to the forum on the wiki
19:42<@Rubidium>screw them ;)
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19:45<@Rubidium>ah well, enough wikipedia bitching for now ;)
19:45*Rubidium goes to try to sleep
19:46<@SmatZ>nn Rubidium
19:46<@SmatZ>so go I
19:46<@SmatZ>nn all :)
19:47<ben_goodger>night
19:47<ben_goodger>how's the following?:
19:47<ben_goodger>OpenTTD is an open source simulation game based around transport networks. It originated as a decompiled clone of Transport Tycoon Deluxe, but now incorporates many new features, most notably a multiplayer mode, support for internationalisation, a number of AI and user interface enhancements, and gameplay innovations similar to those found in TTDPatch.
19:47<ben_goodger>The player is given a job as the managing director of one of several competing transport companies that operate within a particular region. Beginning with only a modest bank loan, the player must plan routes, build infrastructure, build and maintain vehicles and maintain their company's image in order to maximise profitability and achieve the highest company value by the end of the game.
19:47<ben_goodger>The game requires many of the original data files from a retail copy of TTD to play. Free-content graphics are presently being produced in order to eliminate this dependency.[1]
19:49<@Rubidium>it's currently possible to run OpenTTD without any of the original data files
19:49<@SmatZ>I think "-decompiled" ... and we got rid of that "clone" word recently, too :)
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>IMHO OpenTTD should be a subsection of a Transport Tycoon article, it does not really warrant a separate article
19:51<ben_goodger>it says "clone" in big letters on the homepage
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>it was never decompliled
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>at best it was disassembled and reverse engineered
19:54<ben_goodger>ok then...
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>i'd probably say "... is a reimplementation in C++"
19:58<ben_goodger>very well
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20:14<SpComb>depressive wikipedia politics :(
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---Logclosed Thu Oct 23 00:00:15 2008