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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-10-29

---Logopened Wed Oct 29 00:00:05 2008
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03:59-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*Flex@89.246.160.*] by petern
03:59-!-HerzogDeXtEr was kicked from #openttd by petern [come back when your pogo's fixed]
04:04-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*Flex@89.246.*] by petern
04:04-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*Flex@89.246.160.*] by petern
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04:49<@Celestar>$BOSS just forgot my name :/
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04:50<@Celestar>hi :)
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05:00*dih hugs Celestar
05:00<TrueBrain>Celestar: nasty
05:01<TrueBrain>petern: I am happy to see I am not the only one who gets annoyed by it :)
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05:12<@Celestar>TrueBrain: He just called up. Me: "Good morning". Him: "Good morning, er... er... er... er... er.... Is $OTHER_COLLEUAGE here?"
05:14*Celestar awards his boss another suck-point
05:17<dih>Celestar: do they work the same way as the 'treuepunkte' in flenzburg?
05:25<@Rubidium>Celestar: if I look at that conversation you failed to resolve $BOSS too, so why should $BOSS resolve $GUY_THAT_SAID_GOOD_MORNING?
05:27<@Celestar>Rubidium: I am able to resolve $BOOS :)
05:27<@Celestar>dih: yes, about.
05:31<@Celestar>dih: how many Flensburg-points ya got?
05:34*dih has none
05:35<@Celestar>neither have I :P
05:35<@Celestar>(at the moment) :P
05:35<dih>let's have some fone
05:35<dih>2 weeks - who gets the most :-D
05:36<@Celestar>yeah :)
05:36<@Celestar>who pays?
05:36<@Celestar>the one who loses has to pay all the tickets?
05:46<@Celestar>it is pretty difficult to get points
05:47<dih>existance of a driverslisence is required for the beginning, of one loeses it in the time of those 2 weeks one can still continue
05:47<dih>Celestar: it is pretty easy!
05:48<dih>as soon as you are 26 KM/h over the sweed limit on outer-town roads
05:48<dih>(not moterways)
05:48<@Celestar>but you need to find some trooper who cares about that too :P
05:51<dih>listen to the radio? :-D
05:53<@Rubidium>dih: next time use the right SI units ;)
05:54<@Rubidium>cause kelvin*mol/liter/hour doesn't make much sense ;)
05:55<dih>hehe ;-)
05:56<TrueBrain>oeh, my new screens arrived :)
06:04<@Celestar>TrueBrain: 22" Widescreens?
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06:06*dih hates widescreen....
06:07<TrueBrain>2x 22" :p
06:08<@Celestar>dih: depends
06:09<@Celestar>dih: I don't hate them, as long as the vertical resolution is sufficient (i.e. > 1000)
06:09<@Celestar>I just don't like the 1280x800 crap or so
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06:11<dih>na - dislike widescreen
06:11<dih>simply just dont like them...
06:11<TrueBrain>k .. need to boot into Windows, as KDE 3 screen detection SUCKS ASS
06:11<dih>might be nice to watch dvd's etc.
06:11<@Celestar>dih: it's ok for displaying two pages of paper side-by-side :D
06:11<dih>but 4:3 ratio is what i personally prefer
06:11<@Celestar>my laptop has 4:3
06:12<dih>mine too
06:12<@Celestar>my workstation has 2x 5:4
06:12*dih cringes
06:12<TrueBrain>2x 16:10 here now :p
06:13<TrueBrain>damn, it is big .. oh well, brb, Windows boot required :p
06:13<@Celestar>TrueBrain: ...
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06:14<@Celestar>TrueBrain: screen detection works great on my suse installation ..
06:14<@petern>i want variable resolution too much to have lcds :(
06:14<@Celestar>must be a gentoo crappage
06:14<@Celestar>petern: just get some LCD with a proper interpolation
06:14<@petern>isn't screen detection a feature of x rather than kde?
06:14<@petern>also lcd colour is not as good
06:15<@Celestar>petern: those times are long gone (if you get a proper display)
06:15*petern ponders a 19" 1280x1024 lcd
06:15<@petern>yeah, where proper mean expensive
06:16<@Celestar>not really
06:16<@Celestar>well depends on what you call "expensive"
06:16<@petern>i have a 21" crt to get rid of
06:16<@petern>it's just too big
06:17<@petern>1600x900... well, i suppose that is actually 16:9, but it's not that common
06:21<@petern>that was the wrong window too :D
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>i like 16:10 very much since i got it
06:22<@Celestar>petern: how much would you shell out for a new display?
06:24<@Celestar>100? 300? 500?
06:24<@Celestar>UKP that is (=
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06:34<TrueBrain>Celestar: screen detection fails here completely :p I have to manually ... make clear to him what I want ;)
06:34<TrueBrain>3360x1280 ... how nice :p Damn, this is huge ...
06:34<TrueBrain>now I need to get it off cloning, and make it true dualhead ...
06:34<dih>nice res
06:35<TrueBrain>2x 1680x1280
06:35<dih>that is what i dont like about widescreen ... one of the points
06:35<dih>these os-so-odd vertical res
06:35<TrueBrain>their size? :p
06:36<TrueBrain>Gamma of -50, and screens are readable even in white ..
06:36<TrueBrain>now dual head in KDE3 + X11 ... always a pain
06:36<TrueBrain>xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1680x1680 (desired size 3360x1050)
06:36*TrueBrain slaps computers
06:37<@Rubidium>strange... my screen's bigger than that
06:37<dih>no need to slap all of them just because your's is mucking up
06:38<@petern>Celestar, depends on the size ;p
06:39<@petern>hmm, 24" viewsonic, £149
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>i paid more for my screen than for my system
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>around 300€ each
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>plus some hard drives later on
06:40<TrueBrain>my screens are now also more expensive then my system ;)
06:40<@Celestar>petern: <= that's your display :D
06:40<@petern>too expensive
06:40<ln>does someone know a small tool that would show line count per function in a C++ file?
06:42<@petern>hmm, 562...
06:43<@petern>except it's 400 elsewhere
06:43<Eddi|zuHause>ln: it's a simple push down automaton to calculate the depth of the braces
06:44<@petern>although the better half would kill me
06:44<@Celestar>tell me about it ..
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>to inherit such expensive gear? any time :p
06:45<@petern>i need to buy a new oven
06:45<@petern>then i can buy anything i wan
06:45<@Celestar>petern: then the 500 bucks for the LCD are measurement precision :P
06:45<@petern>however, i've yet to find an oven that'll fit in the space :(
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06:46<@Celestar>money ..
06:46<@petern>quid if you must
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06:49<TrueBrain>xrandr is very good in multiple display support nowedays :)
06:50<@Celestar>xfs_fsr is really really helpful :o
06:51<@Celestar>file system reorganizer
06:51<@Celestar>"defragger" for the winpeops
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06:53<Eddi|zuHause>these "help" forums are always cool... "help, my hard disk is showing read errors" - "just defrag it!"
06:54<TrueBrain>Celestar: isn't xfs doing that on the fly?
06:55<@Celestar>TrueBrain: it does so quite fine, unless you disk usage is very high.
06:55<@Celestar>TrueBrain: which happens here regularly
06:55<@Celestar>Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
06:55<@Celestar>/dev/evms/lvm2/td/home 8.9T 8.6T 368G 96% /nfs/home
06:55<TrueBrain>hehe :p
06:56<@Celestar>like so.
06:56<TrueBrain>do we want to know how much porn you downloaded :p
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>my drives are always full...
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>no matter what i do...
06:56*Celestar slaps TrueBrain
06:57<ln>12:43 < Eddi|zuHause> ln: it's a simple push down automaton to calculate the depth of the braces <--- that's why i assume someone else has done it already, because it's simple.
06:57*TrueBrain smilse :)
06:57<TrueBrain>now all what I need, is some program that focuses on the application I am looking at :p
06:58<TrueBrain>I now tend to miss which window I have active ... :p
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>there are eye focus detection cameras
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>just hook those into the mouse driver ;)
06:59<@Celestar>what's that to do with mice?
06:59<Gekz>TrueBrain: get compiz
06:59<Gekz>and turn on the ADHD module
06:59<Gekz>it focuses on a single window
07:00<TrueBrain>will consider that :p
07:00<Gekz>Celestar: control the mouse with your eyes :P
07:00<Gekz>Celestar: it would get annoying though
07:00<Gekz>with this cursor moving where you're trying to read
07:00<Gekz>and moving your eyes rapidly to move this flicker of terd out of the way
07:00<Gekz>every second
07:01*Celestar prefers touchscreens
07:01<@Celestar>and keyboards
07:01<TrueBrain>that would had been a good idea :p
07:02<Gekz>would have
07:02<Gekz>perfect present, not perfect past :P
07:03<TrueBrain>and what did I tell you about that?
07:03<Gekz>WHAT WAS I TO DO?!
07:03*Gekz cries
07:03<TrueBrain>@kban Gekz 100 I can ban you
07:03-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
07:03-!-Gekz was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [I can ban you]
07:05<TrueBrain>people should learn not to correct ever single english mistake we make .. it really is annoying :(
07:05<dih>every :-D
07:05-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
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07:05<TrueBrain>@kban dih 100 an other one bites the dust
07:05-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
07:05-!-dih was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [an other one bites the dust]
07:05<Gekz>TrueBrain: another.
07:05<TrueBrain>@kban Gekz 3600 ...
07:05-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
07:05-!-Gekz was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [...]
07:06<TrueBrain>that was REALLY stupid ..
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>i wondered when you were going to flip :p
07:06<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: you know me, doesn't take much/long ;)
07:07-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm.. $someone is taking my whole bandwidth again
07:07-!-dih [] has joined #openttd
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>Error: $someone is private
07:09<dih>12:08 <Gekz> tell him that Gekz says if you don't make mistakes, they dont have to be corrected
07:09<@Rubidium>it is "don't"!
07:10<@Rubidium>the irony ;)
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07:12<PandaTits>Good day.
07:12<dih>what a nasty nick!
07:12<@Rubidium>dont think it's such a good day ;)
07:12<PandaTits>It's not nasty
07:13<PandaTits>It's _nasty_
07:13<PandaTits>Like the smell of dog food at 4am
07:13<PandaTits>it's _nasty_
07:14*keyweed_ looks at PandaTits
07:14<TrueBrain>lol @ Rubidium
07:14<PandaTits>Do you do that often?
07:15<dih>@echo [base 16 10 7b] [base 16 10 f3] [base 16 10 ce] [base 16 10 66]
07:15<PandaTits>Bot fail.
07:17<dih>would have been nothing else than your ip anyway :-P
07:17<PandaTits>What is this IP that you speak of?
07:18<dih>the one that is in hex in your username
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>Intergalactic Parity is a measurement to identify any physical object in the galaxy by a unique number
07:19<TrueBrain>I wonder if I should the fake-Gekz too ..
07:21<TrueBrain>at least he understand we are talking about him
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07:21<PandaTits>I don't have small tits.
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07:21<dih>TrueBrain: /whois Gekz and /whois PandaTits
07:21<PandaTits>if that's what you're getting at.
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07:26<TrueBrain>bah, isn't responding :(
07:26<PandaTits>It doesn't have panda tits.
07:26<TrueBrain>@kban PandaTits 3600 you just annoy me
07:26-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
07:26-!-PandaTits was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [you just annoy me]
07:27<TrueBrain>I somehow don't feel like hearing about panda tits all day long :p
07:27<TrueBrain>I wonder with which webchat he will join next ..
07:27*dih buys TrueBrain a Play(Panda)Boy
07:27<TrueBrain>hehe :)
07:27<dih>why dont you just ban all webchats :-P
07:28<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: explains it
07:28<TrueBrain>the smell of something stuck in my new monitor which is now burning ..
07:28<TrueBrain>Rubidium: long 30 minutes :p
07:29<@Rubidium>but you forgot the student 15 minutes and the Twents 15 minutes for both the start time and the time it will take ;)
07:29<TrueBrain>then it should be working again in 20 seconds ;)
07:29<TrueBrain>I wonder which game I should launch on my new screens ... :)
07:30*Rubidium knows a game that's widescreen certified that you might have ;)
07:30<TrueBrain>haha, it does work over the complete desktop :)
07:31<TrueBrain>now that is really insane :p
07:31<TrueBrain>euh ... Rubidium: I would like to report a bug :p
07:31<TrueBrain>when I make OpenTTD over my 2 screens
07:31<TrueBrain>close the game
07:31<TrueBrain>open it again, it gets the size of 1 screen
07:31<TrueBrain>but .. OpenTTD still things it is over 2 screens :p
07:31<TrueBrain>I need to resize to fix it :(
07:31<@Rubidium>go fix sdl?
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07:32<TrueBrain>nah :)
07:32<TrueBrain>the other bug ... the opntitle screen is not as pretty at this size :p
07:33<TrueBrain>okay, enough wining :) I am going to install Gentoo .. then some dancing classes .. be back much later :) Have fun you all!
07:33<@Rubidium>heh.. is back up ;)
07:33<TrueBrain>yeah :)
07:35<TrueBrain>hmm .. now I come to think of it .. I don't need to reboot to install Gentoo .. I can do that from withn Debian :p hehe :)
07:35<TrueBrain>petern: bless you
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07:36<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: and doing it over ssh is so much more fun :)
07:36<TrueBrain>Rubidium: hehe, true :)
07:36<TrueBrain>Rubidium: here the FTP still doesn't respond ..
07:37<@Rubidium>I just got about 80 MB from there
07:37<TrueBrain>ah, ftp:// is, http:// is not
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07:56<FloSoft>hmm where was the page with those copy&paste patches? or was it already added to trunk?
07:56<TrueBrain>I doubt it will ever be in trunk, so check the forum?
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08:02<@Celestar>c&p patches O_o
08:03<@Celestar>don't like em
08:03<TrueBrain>spoils the game ;)
08:04<@Celestar>I want auto-build :P
08:05-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
08:06<@petern>i want lots of money
08:06<@Celestar>me too
08:06<@Celestar>about ... 10 billion?
08:06<@petern>that'll do
08:06*Celestar starts printing
08:06<TrueBrain>wow, openttd-0.6.3 is finally unmasked in Gentoo
08:06<TrueBrain>about time ..
08:07<@Celestar>"unmasked" meaning?
08:07<TrueBrain>you can install openttd without warning or overriding security
08:07<@Celestar>uh huh
08:07<@Celestar>and that wasn't the case before?
08:07<TrueBrain>no, because of a few CVEs
08:07<TrueBrain>they masked (read: blocked) all OpenTTD versions
08:07<@Celestar>a few .. what?
08:08<TrueBrain>it took ages for them to realiase 0.6.3 wasn't effected ..
08:08<TrueBrain>but .. we are finally there ;)
08:08<TrueBrain>CVE .. security reports?
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08:08<@Celestar>is that some gentoo specific stuff? :P
08:08<TrueBrain>no ...
08:08<TrueBrain>very VERY general
08:15<Spoons>They? Isn't gentoo run by one guy, surely you mean "he". *runs*
08:26-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
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08:50<dih>there is no Spoon!
08:52<SpComb>I've heard that before somewhere
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08:53<FauxFaux>Ssh. ¬_¬
08:54<TrueBrain>no, not in SSH
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08:55<@petern>spoooooooooon guaaaaaaaaaaard
08:55<FauxFaux>I accidentally the spoonguard.
08:57<dih>you accidentally _what_ the spoonguard?
08:57<@petern>he accidentally the spoonguard
08:57<@petern>can you not read?
08:59<ln>implicit verbs less typing.
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09:00<Wolf01>implicit sentences, no typing
09:01<TrueBrain>pff, compiling gcc always takes for ever :(
09:01<TrueBrain>downloading the CoD beta too ..
09:02<FloSoft>TrueBrain: hmm on my quad compiling's really fast ;)
09:02<TrueBrain>gcc drops back to a single core to compile, so somewhat I doubt that
09:03<TrueBrain>(well, single thread, but okay, comes down to the same ;))
09:04<FloSoft>TrueBrain: hmm did you use "make -j $insertmaximumthreadcounthere$"
09:04<TrueBrain>FloSoft: it really doesn't matter in case of gcc
09:04<TrueBrain>(like a few other software packages)
09:05<TrueBrain>I believe either glib or glibc falls back to -j1 too ..
09:06<TrueBrain>and with multilib active, gcc does two complete runs ... whoho
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>well, then just compile different packages in parallel
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09:07<TrueBrain>lol @ Eddi|zuHause :)
09:08<@Belugas>hello boyz
09:08<FloSoft>hmm: dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: debian/openttd/usr/games/openttd shouldn't be linked with (it uses none of its symbols).
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09:11<+glx>FloSoft: not a problem
09:11<+glx>it still works
09:12<+glx>and it should warn about libicudata too
09:12<FloSoft>glx: i know, but that binding is unnessecary
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09:13<+glx>tell that to libicu devs, icu-config --libs-only always give these 3 libs
09:13<TrueBrain> <- my workspace ... don't mind the mess ;) The small thing on the left is my computer :)
09:14<FauxFaux>The stand for my headphones is larger than that. ¬_¬
09:14<@petern>kde looks so horrible :p
09:14<TrueBrain>KDE sucks, yes
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09:16<@Belugas>a desktop full of SNOW!!!
09:17<@petern>mine is full of winamp visualization
09:17<TrueBrain>Belugas: told you I liked snow :)
09:17-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*Flex@89.246.*] by petern
09:17<TrueBrain>petern: now that is a nice idea :)
09:17<@Belugas>i second that!
09:17<+glx>hmm kde in kde?
09:18<TrueBrain>glx: on the right screen is nxclient at work, to an other machine of mine
09:18<TrueBrain>it contains all my chat applications, mail, and stuff like that
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09:18<SpComb>my desk is clean!
09:18<TrueBrain>but more the point here was: check my 2x 22" widescreen :p
09:19<+glx>nice screens
09:19<@petern>nasty flat keyboard
09:19<TrueBrain>the flatter the better
09:21<@Belugas>TrueBrain, i like diving (as you know). does not mean i have a diving related desktop ;)
09:21<TrueBrain>Belugas: well .. that is just sad ;)
09:21<@Belugas>mmh... irrelevent... it has my son's picture... i guess i love him more than diving
09:22<TrueBrain>pfew :)
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i must like jessica alba then...
09:25<TrueBrain>hmmm .. Jessica Alba ..
09:25<FauxFaux> <-- I was trying to resist linking this, but with your talk about loving your wallpapers. <3
09:26<+glx>your desk is too clean to be real ;)
09:26<dih>TrueBrain: here's an idea - move everything you dont need on your desk to somewhere else - then take another picture :-P
09:27<FauxFaux>Yeah, it was polished for that, normally covered in half eaten snackies and bowls/plates. :p
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>nothing ever stays half eaten here...
09:28<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: nice screens ;)
09:28<dih>no - but everything remains emtpy after it's been eaten
09:28<TrueBrain>dih: why? :)
09:28<FauxFaux>Clearly you're not buying cadbury's chocolate in the 1kg bars they offer.
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>amazing how the same picture can look so falsely coloured in two adjacent screens...
09:29<TrueBrain>reason I always buy two identical screens
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>1kg of chocolate? that'd take half an hour tops...
09:29<dih>FauxFaux: are you by any chance lacking a chromosom?
09:29<FauxFaux>Yeah, the right screen is about a third of the price of the left. (
09:29<@Belugas>A desktop not cluttered by papers, pen and books is the one of an administrator, i.e.: one that make the other works, i.e: one who does not work ^_^
09:29<FauxFaux>dih: No, but I am lacking the ability or will to prepare food for myself. ¬_¬
09:30<dih>why do you have these odd thingybob's on your screens?
09:30<dih>that is really girly
09:30<FauxFaux>Ponies. \o/
09:30<dih>those a things my neightbour likes playing with
09:30<dih>she is 6
09:31<FauxFaux>She sounds nice, is she single?
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>my sister also always wanted those things
09:31<dih>pedofile arse!
09:32<TrueBrain>well, girls, I wish you a good day
09:32*FauxFaux waves.
09:32<TrueBrain>I am going to try CoD WAW MP Beta
09:32<TrueBrain>and then I am off
09:32<TrueBrain>have a good one :)
09:32<@petern>mmm, 1kg of cadbury's
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>what's the most interesting about TrueBrain's "screenshot" is that he has a query window with Gekz open :p
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09:47<@petern>is that interesting?
09:49-!-mode/#openttd [-b bow*!*@*] by petern
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>apparently not
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>where are all these random bans coming from?
09:56*Celestar wonders whether it is possible to mark an xfs so that it is fsck'ed on next boot
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09:57<Ammler>last number in fstab
09:58<@Celestar>that's the fsck order isn't it?
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09:58<ln>Celestar: touching /forcefsck forces checking everything at next boot, at least on certain distros.
09:59<@Celestar>ln: yes, but that's my last resort
10:01<ln>touch /forcefsck and set last field in fstab to zero for all other partitions :/
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10:06<@Celestar>or that :D
10:09<@Celestar>this disk is way too full :S
10:10<@petern>wasn't there a lot of hype several years ago that unix-type filesystems didn't need defragging?
10:11<+glx>fsck is not really for defrag IIRC
10:11<thingwath>no, it really isn't
10:11<@Celestar>petern: they don't need it that badly. not by a long shot
10:12<thingwath>but even unix filesystems need defragging, when they are used almost full, all the time
10:12<@Celestar>petern: unix people just say "full file systems perform badly"
10:12<+glx>windows needs a defrag right after install
10:12<@Celestar>petern: which is basically the same as "my file system is fragged like there's no tomorrow"
10:13<ln>glx: now is that still true for ntfs?
10:13<ln>"needs", why?
10:13<+glx>ntfs doesn't solve the write where the head is
10:14<@Celestar>petern: unix file systems, as opposed to their windows counterparts, try hard not to fragment the data in the first place.
10:14<+glx>well it doesn't really need it, but a fresh install system is fragmented
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10:15<@Celestar>NTFS and FAT just write the data all over the place
10:15<thingwath>FAT is really stupid, but I think that NTFS should be better
10:16<+glx>ntfs supports compression and has better rights management but I think that's all
10:16<thingwath>at least, microsoft has tools for online defrag :)
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10:16<thingwath>for many linux filesystem, there is no tool for defrag at all :)
10:17<+glx>because it's usually not needed :)
10:17<@Belugas>clusters are smaller too (way smaller), and the allocation table is less likely to be corrupted, regarding ntfs
10:17<@petern>worst filesystem i ever used for corruption was reiserfs
10:18<@Celestar>reiser fucks up rarely, but if it does, it does it well :P
10:19<thingwath>well, rarely...
10:19<@Celestar>often enough for me to not use it :P
10:19<+glx>power cut on write?
10:19<@petern>that'll do it
10:19<@Celestar>yeah. it might
10:19<@petern>reiserfs seems to be a journalling fs for performance rather than integrity
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10:20<@Celestar>ZFS all the way :D
10:20<@petern>i stick with ext3 mostly
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10:20<@petern>not the fastest but i've never experienced corruption
10:20<thingwath>I did :)
10:20<thingwath>but I could fix it very easily
10:21<@petern>data loss on power failure, yes, but not fs corruption
10:21<thingwath>it's really robust fs
10:21<@petern>i seem to remember an early 2.2 kernel had a fs trashing bug too :D
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10:32<@Celestar>I've had those on 2.5 kernels too :P
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>what's the scheme behind kernel versioning anyway?
10:33<thingwath>just increment the last number in 2.6.something forever :)
10:34<Ammler>there was a 2.5 kernel?
10:34<Ammler>but not really used...
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>i mean you often hear about 2.4 and 2.6, but really rarely about 2.5
10:34<thingwath>of course, as a development tree
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>and you see nobody talking about going to 2.7
10:35<thingwath>there will not be any 2.7
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10:39<Ammler>one thing, I had better experience with FAT then ext3 is for USB Disks, if you unplug them without unmount
10:40<Ammler>fsck works now since hours with my HD, next time I try with sync.
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10:41<@petern>does FAT contain an 'unmount uncleanly' tag?
10:41<thingwath>almost certainly not
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10:56*dih uses hfs+ :-P
10:56<@Celestar>zfs works on linux
10:58<Tefad>"works" and works are two different things
10:58<ln>yes, one of them is a lame office suite from microsoft.
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11:04<dih>ln: yes - the ms thing just does not... ironic actually!
11:07<Aali>yay, i figured out what was segfaulting my ottd \o/
11:11<Tefad>ln heh.
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12:30<CIA-5>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r14546 /trunk/src/ (string.cpp string_func.h):
12:30<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Unify string(cpy|cat) functions
12:30<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Doc: string(cpy|cat) functions
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12:48<yorick>are server names always encoded in utf-8 when sent over network?
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12:50<yorick>because...212054696b6f732067c3a16dc3a9c3a9203333333333332121 <-- this is a hex representation of a server name
12:50<yorick>I can't decode that with ASCII
12:50<+glx>looks like utf8 yes
12:52<ben_goodger>yorick: most latin in UTF8 is ASCII equivalent
12:53<ben_goodger>you should be able to get some sense out of it with raw ASCII unless it is composed for some reason primarily of non-alphanumerics
12:53<yorick>ben_goodger: yes, but python errors on it when using th ascii codec
12:54<ben_goodger>yorick: try another codec then?
12:54<yorick>utf8 fails on revisions
12:55<yorick>"8ae8a9a6e9818be8bba2e4b8ad" <- this one
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12:56<ben_goodger>appears to read èÞ®ªÚüïÞ+óõ©¡
12:56<ben_goodger>or ��������+����
12:57<ben_goodger>'tis gibberish#
12:58<yorick>what kind of revision is that?
12:59<ln>UTF-8 only!
13:00<yorick>ln: nono, "please"
13:00<ben_goodger>well, if it's UTF-8 I think it's gibberish
13:00<yorick>or it fails for another reason
13:00<@Belugas>isn't it a hg revision ?
13:00<@Belugas>jsut an idea...
13:01<thingwath>I don't think *this* makes any sense as UTF-8
13:01<yorick>Belugas: if I try to get the raw packet, it reads 0.6.2 somewhere
13:02<@petern>servers names are not encoded
13:03<+glx>petern: all strings are utf8 internally
13:03<+glx>so server names are too
13:04<@petern>server names are sent as-is
13:04<@petern>so if it's not utf8 in the config, then it's not utf8
13:04<@petern>and it is not *encoded* by ottd
13:05<+glx>it's whatever is filled in char*
13:05<yorick>hmm, the packet just seems awfully broken
13:07<FauxFaux>Yeah, there's a typo in the middle there somewhere.
13:09<fjb>If I have a pointer to the nth element of an array, is there a way to find out the n?
13:10<@petern>pointer - first element
13:10<FauxFaux>Yeah, the "-" operator, highly complex.
13:10<fjb>first element means poiter to the start of the array?
13:11<FauxFaux>Close enough.
13:11<fjb>Or "pointer - array[0]"?
13:11<thingwath>um, no.
13:12<fjb>C sytax is complicated sometimes.
13:13<ln>not at all.
13:14<Sacro>x = x++;
13:14<Sacro>that is complex
13:14<thingwath>no, it isn't :)
13:14<Aali>C syntax is dead simple, if you know what you're doing
13:14<FauxFaux>I'm pretty sure it counts as two modifications before a sequence point, thingwath.
13:16<Sacro>i hate the way it is different in C and C#
13:16<Sacro>C increments (as it should)
13:16<Sacro>C# doesn't
13:16<thingwath>just don't use it
13:16<thingwath>never use it
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13:17<thingwath>how you can tall what C should do with x in this?
13:17<Sacro>it should set x = x
13:17<Sacro>and then post-increment it
13:17<Sacro>perfectly simple
13:18<Sacro>so it is just x++;
13:18<+glx>why should it?
13:18<thingwath>why it should increment x after assinging the value?
13:18<Sacro>glx: post incremeent
13:18<Sacro>thingwath: ^
13:18<FauxFaux>It's undefined..
13:18<+glx>order of operations is not defined
13:18<FauxFaux>It might do the same as c#!
13:19<thingwath>put value of x to =, and then increment
13:19<FauxFaux>glx: I believe, in this case, it's not the order but actually the safety that's not defined. Subtle difference, but still relevant.
13:19<Sacro>ooh, now x += x++
13:20<+glx>anyway I wouldn't trust somebody coding that way
13:20<Sacro>that should hmm
13:20<Sacro>double x and add one
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15:19<fjb>What does gcc try to tell me? "error: two or more data types in declaration specifiers"
15:20<@petern>it means you have two or more data types in a declartion specifier
15:20<@Rubidium>probably a missing semi-colon or so
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15:22<fjb>Hm, is "enum ramp_flags flags;" as part of a struct wrong?
15:23<Aali>you can't use enums as types
15:23<Aali>you still have to store the enumerated values in an integer
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15:24<fjb>My C book told me it should be possible. Maybe I got that wrong.
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15:25<@petern>you must declare the enum separately
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15:25<@petern>then you should just be able to use "ramp_flags flags;"
15:25<Aali>ah yes, the problem is the enum keyword
15:25<Aali>its only used to declare enums
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15:26<Aali>nevermind what i said about enums not being types
15:26<fjb>The enum is declared separately.
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15:27<fjb>I still get that error wirthout "enum" in that line. But I get an additional error: "error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'ramp_flags'"
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15:29<Aali>and what does you enum declaration look like?
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15:31<fjb>Ah, good hint, the semi-colon was missing there.
15:31<fjb>Thank you.
15:32-!-mortal`` is now known as mortal
15:32<fjb>"enum ramp_flags flags;" is correct.
15:32<Aali>yeah, i know
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15:33<Aali>i never use enums, so i forgot how the little buggers work :P
15:33<fjb>I didn't find an example...
15:33<Aali>enum ramp_flags is indeed the correct type name if you dont typedef it
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16:09<yorick>Belugas: what security reasons?
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16:24<@Belugas>does it really matter?
16:32<yorick>then it's not a valid reason
16:33<@Belugas>if you insist: doing distributed automatic banning by a python client based on your now available identifier is not very interesting
16:34<yorick>where does it say it will be used for that
16:34<@Belugas>one day, the game will be used only by control freak admins who will have even more fun then players
16:35<@Belugas>yorick, come on...
16:36<yorick>how about afk monitoring + automatic pausing?
16:38<@Belugas>better use another method. exposing slot like tjis is way too touchy
16:39<yorick>you mean it does not make sense to know which client actually did a command, only which company?
16:41<@Belugas>you got that right!
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16:53<@Belugas>and i'm gone home
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17:20*TrueBrain loves iPhone :)
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17:51*Eddi|zuHause doesn't get what all the fuzz is about
17:51<yorick>what fuzz?
17:52<FauxFaux>Shit, it's the fuzz!
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>about Belugas talking to himself :p
17:53<yorick>Fitt, it's it's the shuz!
17:53<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: oh, I was thinking about the iPhone fuzz
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yeah, i did, too. ;)
17:54<SmatZ>so did I :)
17:54<SmatZ>and I didn't know
17:54<@Rubidium>"The iPhones aren't the only bad apples in the cell phone basket and there's not much you can do about the problem." <- A quote a like a lot
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>haha ;)
17:54<@Rubidium>if only the third a was an A ;)
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18:24<Aali>wow, with IS and improved breakdowns, planes actually go for emergency landings at other companies airports
18:25<Aali>and they still charge you the landing fee, those greedy bastards
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18:43<Char>one question
18:43*SmatZ <== bad mood
18:43<Char>is there a reasonable way to replace engines if the one engine is a double engine and the other a single one?
18:43<Char>SmatZ: whats wrong?
18:44<Aali>Char: not really
18:44<SmatZ>Char: as I said, no :) ... well personal things are going bad
18:44<Char>i'm sorry for yoyu
18:44<SmatZ>thanks :-)
18:49<fjb>Hm, conditional orders and cargo dest don't get along too well...
18:49<Char>guess it doesnt really help you, me beiung sorry
18:49<SmatZ>it does
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18:58<Eddi|zuHause>well, conditional orders are impossible to predict, cargodest cannot ever handle them completely
18:58<Char>the game gets kinda boring once you have connected most of the stuff
18:59<Aali>prospect more :)
19:02<Aali>press F12
19:02<Char>can only fund non-interesting stuff
19:02<Char>like a factory
19:03<Char>i dont need a factory, i got one.
19:03<Aali>its a patch setting
19:03<Char>i know
19:03<Char>i think it sucks ;)
19:03<Aali>sorry, advanced setting
19:03<Aali>prospecting is great
19:03<fjb>I deleted the conditional orders, but now I have two independent routes. The cargo for the second station doesn't get loaded, only for the first station.
19:04<Aali>why would conditional orders create problems with cargodest?
19:04<Char>i could earn enough money to fill all water space with land
19:05<Aali>unless you're using no load/no unload orders, of course
19:05<Aali>Char: but thats very pointless :P
19:06<Char>it is
19:06<rortom>Char: join a MP server with nightly, proper settings and good GRF ...
19:06<Ammler> :P
19:06<Aali>i'm thinking about setting up my own MP server
19:07<rortom>lol @ ammler
19:07<rortom>its very easy if you own a dedicated server
19:07<Aali>running my own patchpack
19:07<fjb>Or user NARS 2.0 and eGRVTS and start in 1831.
19:08<Aali>oh i already run a dedicated ottd server for personal use
19:08<Ammler>I would say, it is very hard to setup a own server
19:08<rortom>ah, patchpacks are nice, but complicated to manage over time
19:08<Ammler>define proper GRF combinations.
19:08<rortom>the one from openttdcoop :p
19:09<Aali>rortom: this one is, yes, i'm running just about every major patch there is
19:09<rortom>since we have presets, its very easy to clone
19:09<Ammler>coop doesn't use patchpack
19:09<Char>anyone of you currently in a network game?
19:09<rortom>Ammler, i mean GRF settings
19:09<Aali>NoAI, cargodest, IS, improved breakdowns, improved timetable management and alot more
19:09<Char>i could also try to get a performance rating of 1000
19:09<rortom>see ammlers URL ;)
19:10<Char>only thing i would need to do is build a shitload of stations
19:10<Ammler>Aali: begin with 2-3 patches
19:10<Char>and 6 more vehicles
19:10<Aali>Ammler: why?
19:11<Ammler>Aali: do you know a working patchpack?
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19:12<Aali>Ammler: what do you mean by that?, have i actually ever seen a working patchpack? yes :P
19:12<Ammler>on a MP server?
19:12<rortom>the russian patchpack is neic
19:12<Ammler>that one is for sure, not useable
19:13<rortom>agreed :D
19:13<@Rubidium>even the mother of all patchpacks wasn't MP safe at all
19:13<nicfer>I got an idea for multiplayer mode: what about a total vehicle limit, not only a per vehicle type one?
19:13<Ammler>the best pack in that matter was Tiberiuss
19:14<Ammler>and those for wwottdgd, of course :-)
19:14*Rubidium doesn't remember what was in there
19:14<Aali>well, thats part of the reason why i wanted to setup a MP server, so I can fix those issues
19:14<Ammler>TibPP was mainly IS and YAPP
19:14<nicfer>and not related, I have a system that would enable to build trolleybuses
19:15<nicfer>Belug as would like it
19:15<Ammler>and without PaxDest
19:15<Aali>and I have yet to make it desync the MP game I'm playing with some friends
19:15<@Rubidium>Aali: fixing desyncs is tricky and pretty hard, so I hope you've got lots of experience with fixing other more reproducable bugs
19:16<Aali>and we even have an AI in there
19:16<Ammler>AI should be sync safe
19:17<Aali>all the other patches *should* be sync safe too :P
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19:18<nicfer>my idea is to make the electric wires a flag of the road/tram rails instead of being attached to the tramtracks
19:18<@Rubidium>one thing about "sync safe": never believe the author, most of the time they are wrong
19:19<@Rubidium>nicfer: so you implemented that, right?
19:19<nicfer>no, that's a idea only
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19:20<@Rubidium>in that case I'll tell the American patent office that there has been prior art ;)
19:20<rortom>about desync
19:20<rortom>what about adding a feedback routine once a client desyncs?
19:21<rortom>like compare hash parts of the savegame, until the error position is found?
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19:22<Rhydderch>ok new to irc here and to open ttd
19:23<Aali>Rubidium: of course, and i haven't seen anyone brag about their patch being sync safe, i'm only going by my personal experience with these patches
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19:23<@Rubidium>rortom: wouldn't quite help
19:23<@Rubidium>Aali: that's likely because you haven't been here long enough
19:23<rortom>rubidium, why not, if you know the history of the tile?
19:23<Aali>Rubidium: most likely, yes :P
19:24<@Rubidium>rortom: the cause of desyncs happen usually a long time before the actual desync
19:24<@Rubidium>and by long I mean up to at least 20-ish game years
19:25<rortom>oh, thats indeed not good
19:25<Aali>yeah, if a direct action leads to a desync it will be discovered and fixed, but a long chain of events can also lead to a desync if just one of those things go wrong
19:25<rortom>why is it so long not detected then?
19:25<@Rubidium>because the gamestate has been slightly different and an action many years later triggers the desync
19:26<rortom>mh, thats indeed not good
19:26<@Rubidium>e.g. the "do autorenew" setting of a company is not properly synced across all clients
19:26<rortom>is there any approach from your side to solve that?
19:26<@Rubidium>the approach of stopping desyncs all together is... unfeasible
19:27<@Rubidium>making and sending a delta of the complete game state every tick is somewhat more bandwidth expensive
19:28<rortom>maybe you can record games and playback in some kind of desync finder?
19:28<@Rubidium>as it'd mean sending a savegame every real time second to all clients
19:28<rortom>i thought more about a 3rd party tool to find bugs
19:28<SmatZ>Rubidium: we discussed it yesterday, savegames may differ for clients, but the effective game state is the same
19:28<@Rubidium>rortom: the playback can already be made if one uses the appropriate compile flags
19:28<SmatZ>eg. not in a desync-state
19:29<rortom>cool to know :)
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19:29<rortom>but could it be used to trace such errors?
19:29<@Rubidium>but that only helps in reliably reproducing it
19:29<SmatZ>furthermore, bugs in say YAPF cache are untraceable this way
19:30<@Rubidium>after that it's usually placing printfs at strategic places
19:30<rortom>that sounds pretty non-automatic :\
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19:30<@Rubidium>anyhow... most of the desyncs lately are due to newgrfs doing strange things
19:30<rortom>is there some logic checker for newgrfs?
19:31<rortom>or something to limit their actions in they way that this happens?
19:31<@Rubidium>if we find a way a newgrf can cause a desync we either fix it or we mark the newgrf as unuseable in MP
19:32<Ammler>is there one?
19:32<@Rubidium>e.g. canset (IIRC) changes it's vehicle length when it turns around
19:33<@Rubidium>but when you reload the same savegame it initializes the vehicle length to the length it was before the turn
19:33<Ammler>was that the reason, it got removed?
19:33<@Rubidium>Ammler: no, that was acting upon his own threats
19:34<@Rubidium>if you (O)TTD(P) do not implement feature XY then I'll remove the set
19:34<Char>my company rating is at 1000
19:34<Char>thats reason enough to start a new game
19:35<dih>Rubidium, what a silly thing to try
19:35<dih>thinking ones grf was enough leverage
19:35<dih>thinking there even was leverage at all :-P
19:36<Ammler>well, that is not worth to discuss anyway...
19:36<rortom>haha, thats lame @ threats
19:36<rortom>peopel try that everytime for RoR as well ;)
19:38<Rhydderch>is this channel specificly for the developers of OpenTTD? I thought perhaps it was for those who were just players too....
19:38<Rhydderch>however the discussion is way over my head
19:39<fjb>We have 1912 and I finally got my first non steam train.
19:39<@Rubidium>Rhydderch: OpenTTD doesn't have 92 developers ;)
19:39<Vikthor>Rhydderch: It depends, most of the time it's not about OpenTTD at all :p
19:39<Rhydderch>lol never know
19:40<rortom>why dont fork the channel, blender did it well
19:40<rortom> or something
19:40<@Rubidium>there's not that much chatter
19:41<rortom>true again
19:42<rortom>one last thing
19:42<rortom>if you would want to write a management protocol
19:42-!-XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
19:42<rortom>what language would you choose for the interface?
19:43*rortom thought of xml-rpc
19:43<@Rubidium>something buzzword free
19:45<rortom>no i mean its usable by any language at all
19:45<rortom>you could php, java, c/c++, ... to connect
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19:48<@Rubidium>buzzword free doesn't mean unuseable
19:48*Rubidium wonders how many of the famous protocols use XML-RPC
19:50<rortom>coming up with something on your own is not the problem
19:50<rortom>just if you want everyone to use it
19:50*Rubidium doesn't like the requirement of both a xml library and a http library
19:51*SmatZ wonders about overhead (both data size and computional time) caused by XML-RPC
19:52<rortom>i also dont like overhead
19:52<rortom>so thats the reason i asked :)
19:52<rortom>must sleep, work in 5 hours, gn8
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19:53<@Rubidium>how typical...
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20:12<Eddi|zuHause>is it possible that apache is extraordinarily slow?
20:12<Aali>i would say yes but i have no idea what you're talking about
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>for my diploma thesis i have to provide a webservice interface to my program, when i run that as a server on localhost, i get replys instantly, if i run them on an apache on localhost, replies take >1s
20:15<SmatZ>is it possible there are too many requests and too few worker threads?
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>no, only one request at a time
20:16<Aali>apache is not that crappy
20:17<thingwath>first request in row, or every request?
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20:18<Eddi|zuHause>the example client calls each function of the webservice once with a sample input. that's like 10 calls overall
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>some functions take actual time to calculate, but others should just fetch trivial data
20:20<Aali>and everything takes >1s?
20:21<eMJay>Eddi|zuHause: I would suggest that since apache hosts a majority of websites, it is not the problem exactly
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20:21<eMJay>if there was a >1s lag on each request, it would have fallen out of popularity by now
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20:22<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: is the webservice connecting to something else, like a database?
20:22<thingwath>I would try strace :)
20:24*Rubidium has seen apache behave *very* slowly when the hdd was almost full
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21:11*Belugas tries to revive his work on newobjects
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21:26<Char>i guess i am too stupid for this ECS vector stuff
21:27<Char>it does not seem to work
21:27<+glx>grf order is important for ECS
21:27<Char>i put town vector first
21:28<+glx>and the other in grfid order
21:28<Char>why is there a town vector and a basic vector?
21:29<@Belugas>ask George :)
21:29<Char>now it seems to work
21:30<SmatZ>Char: this may help you
21:30<Char>SmatZ: yeah, thanks, but i read that already (i said i was too stupid)
21:30<Char>what bothers me, though, is that i cannot build the vehicles to transport the stuff
21:31<+glx>lv4 should work correctly (road)
21:32<+glx>long vehicle
21:32<Aali>long vehicles 4
21:32<+glx>bt egrvts works too
21:33<@Belugas>if you look in the forums, there's a thread called "you have a problem with ECS vectors? look here " or somehting like that, Char
21:33<@Belugas>you might find a lot of usefull infos in there
21:33<@Belugas>going to bed
21:33<@Belugas>see you
21:35<SmatZ>bye bye Belugas
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21:51<Char>whatever. i guess i really am too stupid right now
21:51<Char>and i would need to find a train set that supports ECS cargoes, which the standard one does not
21:52<Char>i go to bed for now
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23:06<Digitalfox>How good is Code Gear c++ Builder 2007? My university demands we code c on it and show projects on it until next year where can choose another compiler/builder..
23:13<eMJay>looks ok to me :P
23:14<Sacro|Laptop>Digitalfox: use whatever IDE you feel like, use whatever they want to provide project files
23:15*eMJay agrees with Sacro|Laptop
23:15<Sacro|Laptop>we are given VS2008
23:15<Sacro|Laptop>I use vim
23:17<Digitalfox>well they say VS2008 is not standard friendly because of pointers names
23:18<Digitalfox>but thanks for the link eMJay and sacro
23:20<Sacro|Laptop>Digitalfox: cite
23:20<eMJay>Digitalfox: any decent IDE should be able to refactor names...
23:20<eMJay>at the very worst, find-replace should work :P
23:22<Digitalfox>Well the major reason is they want us to code c and c++ using all it's standards and only after a year of it we can use another IDE :\
23:23<eMJay>I guess I'd give c++ builder a go and if it sucked I'd use notepad/vim/nano/whatever...
23:24<Digitalfox>yeah will try c++ builder.. Lets hope it's good :)
23:24<Sacro|Laptop>Digitalfox: its
23:25<Digitalfox>By the way Sacro how are you? Feeling better?
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23:42<Sacro|Laptop>Digitalfox: yah thanks
23:42<Sacro|Laptop>tired though
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---Logclosed Thu Oct 30 00:00:07 2008