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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-11-01

---Logopened Sat Nov 01 00:00:13 2008
00:00<thingwath>train leaves at 6:03
00:00<thingwath>there is no way to wake up before 6 at morning, so...
00:01<Aali>yeah, i feel ya
00:03-!-elmex_ [~elmex@e180064208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
00:04<thingwath>if I only knew how long it will take to the train station
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00:09<thingwath>and there are still some sausages left, blah, I'm not hungry anymore
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00:29<Aali>great, spambots on the forums
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03:22<jpm>Hi
03:24<jpm>From where I can find unicode/ubidi.h
03:31-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
03:31<Aali>jpm: its probably in the new and improved openttd_useful.zip or whatever that file is called
03:34<jpm>Aali: okey, how to compile without icu?
03:34<Aali>no idea
03:35<jpm>btw, is there any editor for grf files?
03:35<Aali>surely there must be some kind of ./configure switch?
03:36<Aali>i have heard good things about grfmaker
03:36<Aali>but i haven't tried it
03:50-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host124-61-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
03:51<Wolf01>hello
03:53-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
04:12*jpm wondering how to compile openttd with icu disabled in MSVC
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05:08<Modulator>hello
05:09<Modulator>i can't find a guide to bribing, could someone quickly tell me how to do that :)
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06:42<Alberth>It does not really qualify as 'quick', but after enabling bribing in the advanced settings, you should be able to select it from the town action window (same one where you can also select advertising campaigns).
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06:46<frosch123>Is it missing a refresh? Or do you not have enough money?
06:46<Modulator>yes, i got it, thanks!
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06:54<dih><jpm> [08:34:05] Aali: okey, how to compile without icu? <- with a braille interfacie :-P
07:01<TrueBrain>morning peepz
07:06-!-roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
07:12<dih>morning tb
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07:53<Ammler>roboboy: are you robotboy from tt-forums?
07:54-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
07:54<roboboy>yes
07:55<Ammler>that "dump ass" was for you, I hope. :-)
07:55<TrueBrain>dump ass? That is new ..
07:55<TrueBrain>I dump garbage .. but an ass?
07:55-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B80D16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
07:55-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
07:55<Ammler>MB thread
07:56<Ammler>ah, dumb
07:57<TrueBrain>who are you calling dumb here?
07:57<Ammler>me?
07:57<TrueBrain>yeah
07:57<TrueBrain>you are most likely right
07:57<Ammler>someone on tt-forums called that
07:57<Ammler>but it is not clear, if he meant roboboy or MB
07:58-!-Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggstry
07:59<@petern>it is clear
07:59<roboboy>I think they ment me
07:59<Ammler>that it is good.
07:59<Ammler>then
08:00<Ammler>MB took it for him.
08:00<@petern>he meant MB
08:00<@petern>that is obvious
08:00<roboboy>and I was refering to my original post when I quoted him about the licence issue
08:00<roboboy>someone else replied
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08:20<TrueBrain>Char / Char2: why do you always come in 2?
08:20<TrueBrain>afraid you miss something? :p
08:21<rortom>morning everyone
08:23<frosch123>TrueBrain: He ha a multiple personallity, and both of him want to join
08:26<Ammler>oh, ..ch :-)
08:31<dih>[13:20] <TrueBrain> Char / Char2: why do you always come in 2? <- perhaps he should just simply join as "string" :-P
08:32<TrueBrain>bad joke :p
08:32<dih>yep :-P
08:34*TrueBrain waits patiently till kdevelop is finally finished
08:36<Alberth>TrueBrain: that would be the first finished open source project, probably
08:37-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B80D16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:37<Ammler>is there a finished not OS project?
08:38*frosch123 is sure there are a lot finished open source versions of "Hello World"
08:38<Ammler>hmm, maybe solitaire
08:39<TrueBrain>Alberth: kdevelop is FAR from finished in developing ..
08:39<TrueBrain>so most likely, that was not what I was refering to :p
08:39<Ammler>no hg support :-)
08:40-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g227027002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
08:44<TrueBrain>frosch123: is there really a 'release' of a 'application' which produces Hello World?
08:45<frosch123>true, they lack proper versioning
08:46<Alberth>TrueBrain: yes, GNU released one, and does read email, so it must be considered finished
08:46<TrueBrain>so I should considered thunderbird finished too?
08:46<TrueBrain>I don't get that 'does read email' argument for 'being finished'
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08:55-!-prophet [~prophet@p5B3F618C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
08:55<prophet>Hi, i'd like to deliver goods to a desert city. How can i get it to accept them?
08:56<Alberth>TrueBrain: At a point in the development of a program, devs tend to start adding bells and whistles to the app rather than improving the core. As a sarcastic remark to this practice one may comment "oh, the prog doesn't read email yet, so it cannot be finished".
08:56<TrueBrain>;)
08:56<TrueBrain>fair enough :)
08:56<Alberth>prophet: make the city grow first by giving it water and transport mail and passengers
08:56<prophet>Alberth, ok
08:57<prophet>Alberth, water by itself isn't enough?
08:57<frosch123>"GNU hello" is quite complex
08:57<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: http://catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html
08:57<Alberth>No afaik, but you can try
08:58<Alberth>Prof_Frink: yes, I was looking for that. Thanks.
08:58<prophet>Alberth, ok thanks
08:59<Alberth>prophet: basically you need 8/8 or more goods acceptance of all houses in the catchment area of the station
08:59<prophet>ok
09:00-!-mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
09:00<frosch123>"const void &data" <- someone knows an allowed way of doing that? Or do I have to use "const void *data" ?
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09:00<Alberth>frosch123: I don't know a 'void' value you could insert in data
09:01<frosch123>well, I can cast every pointer to "void *"
09:01<TrueBrain>frosch123: 'void *', yes
09:01<frosch123>so isn't there a way to pass any variable as reference?
09:01<TrueBrain>void &, no :p
09:02<TrueBrain>void &* maybe ;)
09:02<frosch123>that sucks :(
09:02<Alberth>frosch123: const (void *) &data should work
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>what's a void &* supposed to be?
09:02<frosch123>a reference to a pointer
09:02<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: reference call by void *
09:02<TrueBrain>so void *& is most likely the correct syntax ;)
09:03-!-welshdragon2 [~vista@87.102.21.185] has joined #openttd
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: there is a big difference between "this variable contains nothing" and "i just don't know what data this pointer points to"
09:06<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: in pascal "procedure foo(var bar);" is valid
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09:33<Nite_Owl>Hello all
09:34<roboboy>gnight
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09:41-!-fjb [~frank@p5485C4DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
09:41<fjb>Hello
09:43<frosch123>moin
09:44<ln>anglish only
09:44<fjb>Quak frosch123
09:44<fjb>Moin ln
09:46-!-Reemo [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0CF98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
09:47<ln>http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45162000/jpg/_45162744_-2.jpg
09:47<frosch123>welsh only?
09:47<fjb>english only
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09:48<TrueBrain>stupid kdevelop still not finished ..
09:48<TrueBrain>it required kde-libs:3.5 first :(
09:48<TrueBrain>(which requires qt:3)
09:49*fjb is still using kde3.
09:49<Ammler>do you already use KDE4?
09:50<fjb>Hello TrueBrain, hope you didn't fall down yesterday.
09:50-!-Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0D88A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:52<TrueBrain>fjb: I in fact did several time
09:52<TrueBrain>Ammler: KDE4 installed, yes, but currently I am running xfre4
09:52<TrueBrain>fjb: but falling down is part of the process of getting up ;)
09:52<rortom>server still desynced :'(
09:52<Ammler>TrueBrain: I use xfce4 :-)
09:52<rortom>*still = again
09:52*fjb hopes that TrueBrain landed in the arms of a cute girl everytime.
09:53<TrueBrain>fjb: well, that too
09:53<TrueBrain>but you are attached to a rope
09:53<TrueBrain>so it aint that bad ;)
09:53<TrueBrain>the longest fall I made was 5 meters, 20 cm above ground I came to a hold :p
09:53<Ammler>but mostly with KDE software
09:53<TrueBrain>(I missed a set :p)
09:53<fjb>So the part about the cute girl is even better.
09:55<fjb>Why stopping earlier then nedded? :-)
09:55<fjb>than
09:56<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/photo_me/TrueBrain-Climbing5.jpeg <- me in a foot-lock over a 90degree turn :p
09:57<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/photo_me/TrueBrain-Climbing4.jpeg <- me and that 'cute girl' :p
09:57<TrueBrain>haha
09:57<TrueBrain>(I should scale those images down I guess :p)
09:58<fjb>The girl wouldn't look that cute when scaled down.
09:58<TrueBrain>hehe
09:59<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/photo_me/TrueBrain-Climbing6.jpeg <- falling at that point means a drop of about 4 meters :p
09:59<TrueBrain>(well, in this case it is top-rope, so most likely a bit less, but still :p)
09:59<rortom>:D
09:59<rortom>what climbing center?
10:00<TrueBrain>in The Netherlands
10:00<rortom>neoliet?
10:00*fjb would fall down just above the ground.
10:00*rortom goes climbing in bristol
10:00<TrueBrain>neoliet?
10:00<rortom>its a franchise of climbing halls
10:00<rortom>in germany and the netherlands
10:01<TrueBrain>doesn't ring any bell :p
10:01<TrueBrain>(sorry :))
10:01<rortom>;)
10:01<TrueBrain>the biggest indoor climbing halls in the Netherlands are from "klimmuur" .. I am there most of the time :) (those pics are from an other, but still :p)
10:01<rortom>nice, i will have to look it up
10:01<TrueBrain>klimmuur stupid enough, is a directly translation of "climbing wall"
10:02<TrueBrain>but they have 70 meter halls :) :)
10:02<rortom>oh, wtf
10:02<rortom>thats height
10:02<TrueBrain>yup
10:02<TrueBrain>considering a normal rope is 70 meters long
10:02<rortom>cool :D
10:02<rortom>yeah :P
10:03<TrueBrain>it means you need to detach your rope half-way, get your second guy up
10:03<rortom>they dont provide ropes?
10:03<TrueBrain>attach yourself again, and continue :p
10:03<rortom>oh, nice :D
10:03<rortom>i wanted to do this, but it makes no fun in 5m :\
10:03<TrueBrain>well, I believe it is only 64 meters heigh, but okay :p
10:03<rortom>we have only ~20 around here
10:03<TrueBrain>most other halls have that too, yes :p
10:04<rortom>that calls for a visit to the netherlands :D
10:04<TrueBrain>hehe
10:04<TrueBrain>then go directly to Belgium
10:04<TrueBrain>outdoor
10:04<TrueBrain>120m is no problem
10:04<Ammler>TrueBrain: you need those halls in holland :-)
10:04<TrueBrain>(damn, you are VERY tired when you do that ...)
10:05<TrueBrain>rortom: too bad you can't do those lengths top-rope, which means youneed to follow a few courses before you can do them ;)
10:05<rortom>i must get better again first, and indoor is a good training without risking your life ;)
10:05<TrueBrain>well, this year 1 person died indoor ..
10:05<rortom>:(
10:06<TrueBrain>the second guy 'forgot' to attach his euh ..translation .. 'security device' to the rope
10:06<TrueBrain>the person at the top thought she was going down top-rope style
10:06<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: Don't make me make my cold worse.
10:06<TrueBrain>the person below thought she was going to hook herself up, and let the person down climb up
10:06<TrueBrain>so .. long fall :p
10:06<rortom>argh s**
10:06<rortom>:|
10:06<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: Belay plate.
10:06<rortom>^
10:07<TrueBrain>worst part: those 2 were climbing with eachothe for ages
10:07<rortom>so you have to lead climb, second climb in those areas?
10:07<TrueBrain>then is when the mistakes happen :p
10:07<rortom>yes, you always have to double check :(
10:07<TrueBrain>walls > 20m are hard to do top-rope style
10:07<TrueBrain>(ropes simply aren't that long :p)
10:08<rortom>oh, you can get long ropes
10:08<rortom>i own 70m
10:08<TrueBrain>70m is the longest rope you can use
10:09<TrueBrain>any longer is very dangerous
10:09<rortom>mh, arent there longer ones?
10:09<rortom>ah, yes
10:09<TrueBrain>(what is it .. ever 1m extends 10cm when you put weight on it?)
10:09<rortom>from the usage-side
10:09<rortom>yeah, something like that
10:09<TrueBrain>so a 70m rope extends 7m or something .. that really is the most ;)
10:09<rortom>nice fall :P
10:09<TrueBrain>any longer is just ... well .. not good for you :p
10:10<rortom>also after 3-4 falls you can throw the rope away :\
10:10<TrueBrain>the standard says 12, but yeah
10:10<TrueBrain>(well, depending on the diameter of course)
10:10<rortom>yeah
10:10<TrueBrain>but I assume you don't have 7mm rope :p
10:10<rortom>hehe, no
10:11<rortom>sometimes i secure with gri-gri and then you need a bigger diameter
10:11<TrueBrain>then you WANT bigger :p
10:11<rortom>not for lead climb for sure ;)
10:11<rortom>haha :p
10:11<TrueBrain>but anyway, climbing is nice and cool to do :)
10:11<rortom>agreed
10:11<Prof_Frink>^ this.
10:11<rortom>the climbing hall in utrecht is no more?
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10:12<TrueBrain>dunno, Utrect is too far away form me to consider :)
10:12<rortom>where is those 70m wall?
10:12<TrueBrain>something with a B, I always forget :(
10:12<TrueBrain>will look it up for you, ask me again tomorrow or so :)
10:14<rortom>thanks, that would be cool :)
10:14*SpComb goes climbing less often than he should
10:14<SpComb>although I'm not really very good at it, sadly
10:14<TrueBrain>hehe, we should go climb with this channel some day ;)
10:14<TrueBrain>that 'cute girl' of before .. she is climbing for 2 months now, and doing things I can't even do
10:14<TrueBrain>so getting good is just a matter of doing, and daring ;)
10:15<TrueBrain>(and of course, knowing, but okay :p)
10:15<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: I'm starting to annoy people in my club.
10:15<TrueBrain>Prof_Frink: why? You stink that much? :p (hehe, sorry :))
10:15<Prof_Frink>I've been climbing about 6 months and am outclimbing people that've been doing it for years
10:15<SpComb>I even got a bunch of "liikuntaseteleitä" (pieces of paper worth 4€ at various sport-related places) from work, which more or less means that I can go climbing for free
10:15<TrueBrain>Prof_Frink: can I ask how old you are?
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10:16<SpComb>but I just do it way too rarely
10:16<Prof_Frink>23
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10:16<TrueBrain>Prof_Frink: then it is impressive ;) (young people, like 12 or so, are known to outclimb others very fast, because they don't understand the concept of height :p)
10:16<rortom>i think its about dedication and weight/power rate
10:16<TrueBrain>rortom: and technique :)
10:16<TrueBrain>knowing what you need to do, and what you can do
10:17<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: I do have the advantage of not weighing anything.
10:17<rortom>yes, experience
10:17<SpComb>except when they can't really reach the next grip because it's designed for someone who has 10cm longer hands than you do
10:17<TrueBrain>that friend of mine knows exactly where here middle-mass-point is .. and she uses that in an insane way
10:17-!-yorick [~yorick@82-171-205-190.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
10:17<TrueBrain>I sometimes have rouble finding it ;)
10:17<rortom>:p
10:17<TrueBrain>SpComb: that is bull :) When you can't reach something, you are going too high too fast :p
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10:18<TrueBrain>but, most people forget the 1 basic rule in climbing: first hands, then feet, then your ass; not any combination of those :p
10:18<SpComb>myes, it's a bit of a bad example
10:19<TrueBrain>grr, now kdeveop is installed, but it fails :(
10:19<SpComb>and as I said, I'm not as good at climbing as I wish I was
10:19<TrueBrain>go climb more ;)
10:19<TrueBrain>come and visit :)
10:19<TrueBrain>take rortom and Prof_Frink with you :)
10:19<rortom>:p
10:19<rortom>i life in west germany normally, so not a long way to the netherlands ;)
10:20<TrueBrain>I live in the west of the Netherlands :p
10:20-!-stillunk1own [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
10:21<rortom>mh, im not at home in the next six months either, so ;)
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10:22<TrueBrain>STUPID KDEVELOP
10:22<TrueBrain>I need an other IDE ..
10:22<rortom>^
10:22<rortom>i try to avoid it
10:22<rortom>i use vim/kate :\
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10:24<TrueBrain>I really love a good IDE for developing in big projects, like OpenTTD
10:24<TrueBrain>switching between files mostly
10:24<TrueBrain>(that in fact is all I use .. the syntax highlighter, and the ability to switch files with my mouse :p
10:25<rortom>thats why i use kate
10:25<rortom>switch files with alt+keys thats fast and nice
10:25<rortom>or screen + vim combination
10:25-!-batti5 [~batti5@92.82.81.179] has joined #openttd
10:27<fjb>gvim is also nice, easy to switch files with the mouse and great syntax highlighting.
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10:27<TrueBrain>problem with vim is that you need to save to switch
10:27<TrueBrain>(or open multiple vims, but that sucks :p
10:27<frosch123>fjb: is it able to detect "#if 0", "#else", "#endif" and highlights it as comment?
10:28<fjb>frosch123: Yes
10:28<frosch123>ok, that something not a lot can do :)
10:28<rortom>kate can also ;)
10:28<TrueBrain>ha, fixed kdevelop
10:28<TrueBrain>sort of
10:28<TrueBrain>will try kate neverthless :p
10:28<rortom>hehe ;)
10:29<fjb>TrueBrain: you don't need to save with the graphical version of vim.
10:30<fjb>Even with the text version you can have multiple files open at the same time and switch between them.
10:30<TrueBrain>kate looks nice :)
10:31<TrueBrain>now I only need to find a way to both see the browser, and see the open files ..
10:31<rortom>left side panel
10:31<rortom>just open multiple files
10:31<TrueBrain>when you put "Documents" on the top, it still shows vertical .. it is better if that would be horizontal
10:32<TrueBrain>ah, found it :)
10:32<rortom>agreed, but IMO its better on the side if you have ~30 open files ;)
10:32<TrueBrain>"Kate Tab Bar Extension"
10:32<rortom>ah, good to know :)
10:32<SpComb>TrueBrain: vim has tabs
10:33*SpComb makes do quite well with just next-tab/prev-tab/new-tab
10:33<SpComb>although I don't edit more than a dozen or so source files at a time
10:33<rortom>TrueBrain: be sure to fix indenting settings and local saving with .~ files in the kate options
10:34<TrueBrain>just walking over them, yes :)
10:34<rortom>indention mode "c style" is nice to use also
10:34<TrueBrain>just enabled it :)
10:34<TrueBrain>Remove Trailing Spaces on Load/Save
10:34<TrueBrain>I love such options :)
10:34*rortom as well
10:35<rortom>but the diff on commit will look soo bad ;)
10:35<TrueBrain>not in OpenTTD
10:35<TrueBrain>trailing spaces are refused at commit
10:35<rortom>nice :)
10:35<TrueBrain>so it is almost impossible to introduce them ;)
10:35<rortom>hehe :p
10:36<TrueBrain>xfce4 tends to screw up windows from time to time, with complete garbage :p
10:38<rortom>good that i use fluxbox then ;)
10:38<TrueBrain>okay, NoAI ... where was I ...
10:39<TrueBrain>kate can't compile .. too bad :p
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10:40<fjb>TrueBrain: Then try vim... :-)
10:40<TrueBrain>like vim can compile ..
10:40<TrueBrain>lol, no libsdl .. reinstalling your computer really can be a bitch :p
10:40<fjb>You can teach it to call the compiler (or what ever)
10:41<frosch123>fjb: yes, you can also open a shell in a subwindow
10:41<TrueBrain>which works for any editor :p
10:41*fjb hates sdl for always setting GNU_SOURCE.
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10:49<Eddi|zuHause>surely you can teach kate to call make...
10:49<rortom>TrueBrain: see "terminal" button
10:50<TrueBrain>rortom: yeah, but that still means manual ;)
10:50<rortom>:p
10:51<TrueBrain>in kdevelop, you can hit F4, and it goes to the file
10:51<TrueBrain>useful ;)
10:51<rortom>'make' and enter? ;)
10:51<TrueBrain>when there is an error
10:51<TrueBrain>does it go to the file? :p
10:51<rortom>no
10:51<TrueBrain>sorry, I meant upon error, in the kdevelop sentence above
10:51<rortom>CTRL+G
10:52<rortom>then enter line no
10:52<TrueBrain>still I need to open the right file :p
10:52<TrueBrain>hehe
10:52<TrueBrain>hmm .. segfault .. bah
10:52<TrueBrain>not what I was hoping for ;)
10:52<TrueBrain>merging stuff is always a bitch
10:54<TrueBrain>hmm .. I guess not initalizing a value falls under my mistake? :p
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11:18<Alberth>how to prevent a window resize in horizontal direction?
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11:20<rortom>mh?
11:21<Alberth>rortom: 'mh' ?
11:21<yorick>mh?mh?
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11:28<rortom>what do you mean by that sentence?
11:28<rortom>you can resize in any direction?
11:29<Alberth>I am programming a window, and only want to allow vertical resizing
11:29<rortom>ah, mhm
11:30<Alberth>don't understand how to do that (step_width == 0 and 1 both don't work)
11:30<rortom>idk, sorry
11:31<Alberth>doesn't seem possible
11:32<rortom>mh
11:32<rortom>just prevent resising by using the callback then?
11:32<rortom>and then just reset the width every time?
11:32<rortom>*resizing
11:33<yorick>try setting the step_width to something high
11:33<TrueBrain>step_width is for the scrollbar
11:34-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host217-44-221-18.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Good pie!]
11:36<Alberth>w->resize.step_width is for the scrollbar? (don't think so). In the mean time I found a solution, set the step_width to 1 and don't have horizontal resizing bits in the widgets seems to do the trick.
11:37<TrueBrain>the latter alone should be enough :p
11:37<Alberth>step_width == 1 is default value, so yeah :P
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11:42<Alberth>Scrolled advanced settings, isn't it fun? http://d.imagehost.org/0796/difficulty_screen.png
11:42<TrueBrain>cool:)
11:42-!-mortal`` is now known as Mortal
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>next step: presets for each group ;)
11:47<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I really have no clue what to do with difficulty-like settings here. 'reset to default' is easy, but beyond that?
11:48<Alberth>That kind of blocks merging 'difficulty' window to here as well
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12:06<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could start out with default/custom
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>and then figure out what can be done about adding default values per preset
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>that's not a GUI change
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12:19<sbn>Hmm just noticed something weird
12:19<sbn>My message said: Coal production ... increases by !14%
12:23<yorick>noes
12:23<yorick>14%!
12:24<sbn>Nope, it said !14%
12:25<yorick>with the "!" on the right side?
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12:27<sbn>left side
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12:56<Avdg>hi
12:56<Avdg>is there no task that i can do at openttd?
12:57<Avdg>:p
12:57*Avdg = nl
12:57<yorick>no you aren't
12:57<Avdg>maybe translating :p
12:57<yorick>that's telenet.be
12:58<Avdg>flemish side of belgium
12:58<Avdg>Be-nl
12:58<Avdg>its seems that the website need to be done
12:59<yorick>flemish is not dutch!
12:59<Avdg>lol
13:00<Avdg>here i dont publish without any inspection
13:00<Avdg>im bored... wants to to something
13:01<yorick>you talk weird
13:01<TrueBrain>Avdg: check bugs.openttd.org for anything ;)
13:01<yorick>just read suggestions forum or bugs.openttd.org and go patch
13:01<Avdg>i cant C++ atm
13:01<TrueBrain>lol, is that really 'at the moment'?
13:01<TrueBrain>as in: you expect to know it tomorrow? :p
13:01<Avdg>lol
13:02<Avdg>i can do stuff like php, java, etc...
13:02<TrueBrain>we don't use either ;)
13:02<Avdg>thats true :p
13:03<Avdg>but its right, about the website... there will be a language support in it
13:03<TrueBrain>will be
13:03<TrueBrain>which means: not now ;)
13:03<Avdg>:p
13:03<Avdg>and the translators atm?
13:04<yorick>Avdg: etc... means?
13:04<TrueBrain>I believe the Dutch language has enough translators at the moment
13:04<TrueBrain>check the website for an email to email the correct person to ask that question
13:04<Avdg>and more...
13:04<yorick>what more?
13:04<Avdg>it means 'and more like that'
13:05<yorick>yes, I'm asking for examples
13:06<Avdg>:/ the problem with program language is that these language that i am learning are too easy...
13:06<Avdg>but they dont wants to teach me c++
13:06<Avdg>lol
13:06<yorick>who's they
13:06<Avdg>the teachers
13:07-!-Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
13:07<TrueBrain>learn it yourself
13:07<TrueBrain>like most of us did
13:07<Avdg>its a bit too complex :p
13:07<yorick>...
13:07<Avdg>all these structures...
13:07<yorick>...
13:07<TrueBrain>rortom: lol, kate only removes trailing SPACES, not tabs .. how annoying :p
13:08<yorick>Avdg: you rely on teachers to learn languages?
13:08<Avdg>im glad that my windows is repaired yet
13:08<Avdg>no...
13:08<Avdg>but they just giving languages like pascal, jakes
13:08<yorick>then why don't you learn C++ yourself?
13:08<rortom>TrueBrain: oh, i did not knew that
13:08<Sacro>flemish is like pascal?
13:08<Avdg>im bored in the lessons you see :
13:08<Avdg>:)
13:09<Avdg>nop..
13:09<yorick>btw, pascal, jakes :o
13:09<Avdg>pascal is a program language :p
13:09<yorick>learn python
13:09<rortom>^
13:09<Avdg>lol
13:09<Avdg>im brb
13:09<Avdg>openttdcoop gets more souls :)
13:13<ln>*i'm
13:13<yorick>*I'm
13:20<TrueBrain>rortom: and it doesn't highlight things I would like .. like 'class' ;)
13:21-!-Char [~Ich@d213-103-132-211.cust.tele2.ch] has joined #openttd
13:21<rortom>isnt it black?
13:21-!-Char2 [~Ich@d213-103-132-211.cust.tele2.ch] has joined #openttd
13:22<rortom>tell me a better solution thats not bloated
13:22<TrueBrain>no, that was not what I meant :)
13:22<TrueBrain>I aws hoping you know a way to activate that ;)
13:23<rortom>uhm you can edit the style IIRC
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13:55<Burty>hey, roughly when does player_gui.cpp get renamed to company_gui.cpp?
13:55<frosch123>a month ago?
13:55<frosch123>two?
13:56<Burty>thank you
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14:18<Avdg>:/
14:19<Avdg>would say to burty that it was for the shared infrastructure...
14:20<@petern>what was for si?
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14:40<Avdg>about the rename of player_gui.cpp
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14:43<@Rubidium>Avdg: you could write documentation (for users)
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14:43<Avdg>lol
14:44<Avdg>that will be hard...
14:44<Avdg>im bad in english (see my last forumreplys)
14:44<Avdg>but...
14:44<Avdg>why is the tutorialpart removed?
14:45<yorick>at*
14:45<Avdg>in the original game, there was a tutorial, but it was broken there :p
14:45<Avdg>in the windows...
14:45<@Rubidium>because the tutorial part isn't very "change" proof
14:46<@Rubidium>IIRC changing a few "default" settings caused the tutorial to fail
14:46<Avdg>IIRC?
14:46<Avdg>is that a nick?
14:46<yorick>no
14:46<yorick> If I Recall/Remember Correctly
14:47<Avdg>:p
14:47<yorick>or Interactive Illinois Report Card
14:47<@Rubidium>it's an acronym
14:47<Avdg>too bad that i couldnt test the tutorial in the original game :/
14:47<Avdg>brb
14:48<Avdg>k
14:49<Avdg>i'll look at wiki
14:50<yorick>you really have short brbs
14:52<Avdg>:p
14:53<Avdg>i have 1 sis, 1 bro, and lot of small jobs to do :p
14:53<Avdg>and eating pauze :)
14:53<yorick>break*
14:53<Avdg>yeah
14:54<ln>try realigning the dilithium matrix
14:58<Avdg>??
14:58<Avdg>im just happy that i can work again in windows :p
14:59<ln>*I'm
14:59<Avdg>in linux i couldnt browse throught the code
14:59<ln>*couldn't
14:59<Avdg>:/
14:59<yorick>what?
14:59<Avdg>what "what?"?
14:59<yorick>what what what?
15:00<Avdg>lol
15:00<yorick>what lol?
15:00<Avdg>what? what "what?"? what what what? lol what lol?
15:00<yorick>linux should just be able to browse to the code
15:01<Avdg>yeah, i know, but i like Dev env
15:01<dih>Avdg, define 'browse'
15:01<Aali>is the tropic refurbishment set ECS compatible?
15:02<Avdg>lol, my english is bad...
15:02<dih>ok - if that is how you define browse then you would have trouble
15:05<Aali>hmm, guess not :/
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15:06<Aali>is there an application that will parse an nfo file and reduce it to something telligeble?
15:06<Aali>it will be a pain to go through all those vehicles and change everything manually
15:07<Avdg>lol
15:08<yorick>grf2html?
15:08<Aali>such a thing exists? that would be great
15:08<Aali>got a link?
15:09<yorick>google.com
15:09<yorick>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=34279&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20
15:10<Avdg>i will take a look too
15:13<Aali>ah, yes, that will help alot
15:13<Aali>thanks
15:20<Aali>whats CargoID AA?
15:20<Aali>i know FF is first refitable cargo type
15:21<Aali>but this set defines sprites for AA too
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>CargoID != cargo type
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>it's an Action 2 ID
15:22<Aali>whatever
15:22<Aali>whats CargoID 0xAA?
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>means if you define an action 2 with the ID AA, other var action 2's can refer to this ID
15:22<Aali>so it has no special meaning?
15:22<frosch123>Aali: can you click on it, is it a hyperlink?
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>no, you can use any value you want
15:23<Aali>right
15:23<Aali>thats all i wanted to know really
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15:38<Avdg>wtf... yet another attack...
15:39*Avdg dont like these
15:39<ln>*don't
15:40<Avdg>lol
15:40<ln>not to mention, "doesn't" would be grammatical
15:40<Avdg>yeah
15:40<Avdg>the I form and he form... :p
15:40-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
15:41<Avdg>I am looking about the train tut
15:41<Avdg>start here: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Tutorial/
15:41<Avdg>but it seems that the logic is weird
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15:54<Avdg>look at these joins and kicks
15:54<Aali>its just netsplits
15:58<ln>*it's
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16:01<Aali>cant really use that key without hitting the enter key by accident
16:04<ln>remove he enter key and use the one on the numpad.
16:05<Aali>i'd rather change keyboard layout
16:07<Prof_Frink>Or learn to press the right key.
16:07<Avdg>:p
16:07<yorick>I'd*
16:08<@petern>so
16:08<Aali>So.*
16:09<@petern>i've decided to take my work back underground
16:09<Avdg>lol
16:09-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host217-44-221-18.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Good pie!]
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16:09<@petern>to stop it from falling to the wrong hands
16:09<Avdg>we aren't fighting for the best english :/
16:10<Avdg>*We
16:10<Avdg>*:/ .
16:10<@petern># du du du du duh - duh, du du du du duh - duh, du du du du du du du du du du duh - duh
16:10<Avdg>duch :p
16:10<Avdg>*dutch
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16:19<Char2>i got a question
16:20<Aali>so you say
16:20<Char2>if i want to transport passengers from town A to town B or in general between maybe more towns
16:20<Aali>you know, it would be easier if you just asked the question right away
16:21<Char2>and i want to "collect" the passengers in one main station
16:21<Char2>kind of like a hub-station
16:21<Char2>maybe an international airport, maybe just a big railway station
16:22<Char2>then i have to get the outgoing passengers from town to the station, and the incoming passengers back from the station to the town
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>that won't ever work properly unless you use cargodest
16:22<Aali>what he said ^
16:22<Char2>okay, question answered ;)
16:22<Char2>thanks
16:22<Aali>passengers are stupid without cargodest
16:22<Aali>they will board any vehicle that accepts them
16:23*Char2 walks off to learn about cargodest
16:23<Aali>those kind of schemes don't really work with cargodest either, though
16:24<Aali>most passengers will want to travel within the town
16:25<Char2>that sucks :P
16:26<Char2>does cargodest work together with the ECS vectors?
16:26<Aali>it should be compatible with any and all grf's
16:26<Char2>okay
16:26<Char2>hmmm
16:26<Char2>well, however. no cargodest for now. i guess i got a game challenging enough already
16:27<Char2>with the ECS vectors and a kind of challenging layout of the industries in the game
16:27<Char2>(and a challenging landscape)
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17:00<Eddi|zuHause>cargodest does not necessarily make things more difficult
17:08-!-nicfer [~Administr@168.226.104.249] has joined #openttd
17:08<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause: it's the sole defining feature that makes playing simutrans a baffling ordeal for me
17:10<nicfer>hmmm was suggested previously changing the way the local authorities works?
17:10<@petern>grammar's been suggested previously
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>wrong word order the path to the dark side is
17:12<ln>what, nicfer is from Argentina.
17:12<ben_goodger>getting uppity about english grammar stupid wanker makes you
17:13*ben_goodger dons asbestos suit
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should open a thread in the suggestions forum asking if anyone has a suggestion for local authorities
17:15<ben_goodger>nicfer: I'm sure many people have previously suggested a change to local authorities. what specific suggestion do you have?
17:16<ln>en argentina hablamos castellano
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>missing reflexive pronoun?
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>and you are in argentina?
17:18<ln>quite possible. and no, the last time i checked i wasn't even outside europe.
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>then you also chose the wrong verb form ;)
17:19<ben_goodger>*rolls eyes*
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17:20<nicfer>my idea is to qualify companies by multiple sections rather than only one of them
17:20<ln>Eddi|zuHause: i'm taking the course in january, i hope i learn something more then.
17:21<nicfer>and about the noise system for the airports, maybe that should apply too to the other station types
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>you think there is a need to limit bus stations in the city?
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>or that a 3x4 trainstation makes more noise than a 2x3 station?
17:25-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:27<CIA-5>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14551 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.nut: [NoAI] -Update: update the regression code to work under NAIL too (which is a bit more demanding regarding simple syntax)
17:28<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause: the vehicles ought to generate noise, not the buildings
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>well, with airports you can assume a number of vehicles that can reasonably well be servicing it
17:31<CIA-5>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14552 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_abstractlist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: make sure the game doesn't segfault when a user feeds an invalid sorter value to Sort()
17:35<Aali>hmm
17:36<Aali>how do you go about debugging a newgrf?
17:36<Aali>my action0's seem to have no effect :/
17:37<frosch123>first run "nforenum" to check whether your grf is syntactically correct
17:37<Aali>it is
17:37<Aali>it loads
17:38<Aali>the last action is an action B, its executed
17:38<frosch123>"nforenums" checks more than ottd/ttdp on load
17:38<Aali>i use nforenum
17:39<frosch123>what shall your action0 do?
17:39<Aali>it changes property 1D and 28 of 6 wagons
17:40<Aali>its supposed to make them take passengers and tourists, but i can't refit them
17:41<frosch123>are the wagons you are modifiing defined in the same grf, or are they from another grf?
17:41<Aali>from another grf
17:41<Aali>is that going to be a problem?
17:41<frosch123>do you have "multiple newgrf engine sets" enabled?
17:42<Aali>nope
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17:43<frosch123>hmm, sad, in that case I could have answered "set feature 08 property 11" :/
17:44<Aali>hey, thats a nice feature, i should implement that anyway
17:45<frosch123>but "tourists"... do you have a cargo translation table?
17:45<Aali>but yeah, probably wont solve the issue i'm having
17:45<Aali>i do
17:45<Aali>but that shouldn't affect cargo classes?
17:45<frosch123>true
17:46<Aali>the passengers cargo class contains both passengers and tourists
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17:46<Aali>let me try changing some other property
17:48<Aali>doh!
17:49<Aali>i got the vehicle ID wrong
17:49<Aali>damn i was so sure it was the correct one
17:50<Aali>yep, its working now, mystery solved
17:50<ln>*it's
17:51<Aali>thanks for the heads up on feature 8 property 11
17:51<Aali>ln: oh go to hell :P
17:51<ln>Aali: how rude
17:53<ln>Aali: besides, doesn't that involve dying first?
17:54<Aali>ln: you tell me, I wouldn't know
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17:57<nicfer>what suggestion did I made the previous time I joined?
18:00<ln>is this a quiz?
18:01<fjb>Not to forget what you suggested the previous time, perhaps...
18:03<nicfer>I've remembered it now thanks
18:04<ln>prego
18:04<nicfer>is there an archive of the openttd irc channel?
18:04<ln>that was italian, i know.
18:05<fjb>!logs
18:05<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
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18:24<nicfer>is someone making a patch that enables a newgrf callback to modify road stations graphics?
18:24<nicfer>I've forgot something
18:25<Aali>if i install a cargo translation table, thats only going to affect the vehicles in the same grf?
18:25<nicfer>I'm thinking on a system similar to the newgrf rail stations
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18:26<Eddi|zuHause>you can already change road station graphics
18:27-!-Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.149.45.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit []
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>only you can't dynamically adjust to stuff like snow line etc.
18:27<nicfer>but you can't have two grfs at the same time
18:28<nicfer>I mean the menu for selecting your wanted bus/truck station graphic
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18:31<Aali>frosch123
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>indeed, that's part of a much bigger plan
18:31<ln>"and they have a plan"
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: don't highlight people when you don't say what you want from them, preferably in the same line
18:32<Aali>Eddi|zuHause: he could just read my last line
18:32<frosch123>Aali: translation table applies only to the grf, where it is defined
18:32<Aali>too bad
18:33<Aali>so much for writing an external ECS adapter
18:33<frosch123>well, what else should it do :s
18:33<Aali>guess i'll just have to butcher the original grf then
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: well "my last line" could be ages ago in IRC timescales
18:33<frosch123>well, for an ecs adapter I would not bother about individual cargos, and just use cargo classes
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>ln: "i love when a plan works"
18:34<Aali>neither would i, if this set didn't have different wagons that *could* carry the same cargo but really shouldn't
18:36<Aali>would be nice if it could apply the translator from the external grf when and only when it is executing its actions
18:38<Aali>not to mention the cargo classes are a bit off, cereal is the same class as ore, for example
18:39<Aali>i for one would not want my breakfast cereal lugged around in ore hoppers
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18:53<nicfer>ctrl-enter should do the opossite thing to the signaled in the 'enable default group chat with Enter' instead of being assigned Ctrl-Enter to group and Shift-Enter to all
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19:14<nicfer>is there anyone porting openttd to android?
19:16<Char2>does any of you regularly play ECS vectors?
19:16<Char2>android? what is android?
19:16<FauxFaux>The google mobile platform.
19:18<Char2>should i know that one?
19:19<@Rubidium>nicfer: is there anyone porting sdl to android?
19:19-!-Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-147-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg]
19:20<@Rubidium>or rather, does sdl work on android?
19:21<@Rubidium>hmm, google says it runs on a linux kernel and if that's the case it doesn't even need porting assuming you can find a sane compiler and you can compile the required libraries and openttd with that compiler
19:22<@Rubidium>http://code.google.com/android/kb/general.html#c <- that one explains enough (I hope)
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19:27<TrueBrain>Wow, hellboy 2 has some VERY nice annimations ... unbelievable :)
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19:28<fjb>Android is not an open platform. It is not designed for users to install their applications. It is only disigned to run the usual Java toys made for mobile phones. (Ok, there are some nice things written in Java to run on mobile phones, but most are things are expensive crap.)
19:30<valhalla2w>what's not open about j2me?
19:30<ln>the implementation?
19:31<valhalla2w>rather: I do not see why only supporting j2me makes a platform open or not
19:32<fjb>The java sandbox is very restricted.
19:34<valhalla2w>yes, I suppose
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19:47<ln>silencio
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>isn't that written with z?
19:48<TrueBrain>zuppoze?
19:48<ln>no..
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>zomezing like zat, zes ;)
19:49<ln>Eddi|zuHause: btw, have you studied spanish in school or learned at home?
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>reminds me that suse has "zast" as a symlink to "yast", for those poor guys without a german keyboard driver :p
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>school, 2 years
19:50<ln>bueno
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>which reminds me of the good old dos times, whenever you put in a boot diskette, you'd have to remember to type "kezb gr" ;)
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>and "gr" doesn't stand for greek ;)
19:55<ln>i zuppoze a regular dos installation didn't even have layout for greek?
20:02*TrueBrain wonders if he should replace his own lexer with bison+flex ... generates more complex code, more lines, less readable, slightly slower .. but more compatible/changable ...
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>who cares how big or complex generated code is?
20:03<TrueBrain>NoAI already increases compile time of OpenTTD with 30+%
20:04<frosch123>what's wrong with your own lexer?
20:04<TrueBrain>well, it is slightly more difficult to add things
20:04<TrueBrain>flex/bison makes that REALLY easy
20:05<TrueBrain>and, allows tree-like syntax analyzes
20:05<TrueBrain>my own lexer is a lineair structure, will never allow any real syntax analyzes
20:05<TrueBrain>but I guess we can build a tree out of it too, as a side-step .. just slightly more complex :)
20:06-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
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20:11<TrueBrain>so there is nothing wrong with the current lexer in NAIL, I just wonder if bison/flex isn't a more logic solution .. hmm ..
20:11<Char2>wheee, ECS is pretty tough compared to normal game
20:12*frosch123 is tires
20:12<frosch123>*d
20:12<frosch123>night
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20:17<Wolf01>'night
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20:24<Char2>anyone still awake?
20:25<TrueBrain>nope
20:26<Char2>great :)
20:26<welshdragon>nope
20:26<Char2>question: are you building statues of the company owner in the cities?
20:26<Char2>cause it increases the rating at your stations
20:26<welshdragon>answer: yes
20:26<TrueBrain>no, I always build them of my oponent
20:27<Char2>uhmmmm.... this was an honest question, you know, so an honest answer would have been nice ;)
20:27<ln>it's always a statue of Bjarni.
20:27<welshdragon>and i gave you an answer: yes
20:27<TrueBrain>well, I thought it was funny :)
20:29<Eddi|zuHause>i agree ;)
20:30<welshdragon>so do i actually
20:30<TrueBrain>so it is just Char2 ;)
20:33-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76A1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
20:37*fjb agrees too.
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20:57<Char2>well
20:57*Char2 starts building statues all around
20:57<Char2>what happens if you have multiple statues in one city?
20:58<TrueBrain>your city gets really ugly
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21:02<kunwon1>the city goes under because it can't afford the statue tax
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21:16<Eddi|zuHause2>would be a really bad oversight if that was possible...
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21:21<kunwon1>Why? If you fill a city up with statues, you deserve whatever happens. Egotism will not be tolerated!
21:27-!-FR^2 [~frquadrat@oscar.frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...]
21:40<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i suppose the bonus is added only once...
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 02 00:00:16 2008