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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-11-07

---Logopened Fri Nov 07 00:00:41 2008
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01:56<davis-->.
01:57<jpm_>...
01:58<welshdragon>.-..-.-..-.-..-
02:00<welshdragon>sigh, nobody knowa morse ode?
02:00<welshdragon>*code
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02:13<Tefad>-- .. --. .... - .... . .-.. .--. .. ..-. -.-- --- ..- ..- ... . ... .--. .- -.-. .. -. --.
02:14<@petern>an ode to inspector morse
02:14<welshdragon>..---..---..---..-..---...---...
02:14<welshdragon>we;re talking morse :D
02:14<@petern>no you're not
02:14<@petern>that's just junk
02:14<Tefad>i cannot decyper BS without spaces
02:14<welshdragon>petern, you;re just junk
02:15<Tefad>morse code without spaces is like binary without padding
02:15<welshdragon>argh, i keep hitting the ' key
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02:15<welshdragon>((001100)) < binary with padding :P
02:15<Tefad>yes it is.
02:15<Tefad>1100 would be the same thing without padding
02:15<@petern>ioioioitioioi ?
02:16*welshdragon shoves petern in a braille machine
02:17<@petern>222fjsos ?
02:17-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
02:18<@petern>"might help if you use spacing"
02:19<@petern>heh
02:27<Eddi|zuHause><welshdragon> ..---..---..---..-..---...---... <- that is definitely not morse
02:27<welshdragon>:)
02:27<Tefad>...---...
02:28<Tefad>that is one symbol in morse code
02:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it is.
02:29<Eddi|zuHause>but morse code consists of 3 signals
02:29<Eddi|zuHause>welshdragon left out the 3rd from his representation
02:29<Tefad>dash dot and a delay
02:29<Eddi|zuHause>which removes the property of being a code
02:29<welshdragon>sorry :|
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02:33<welshdragon>hmm
02:33<welshdragon>can i use a hyperlink to 'pull' photos from an online album?
02:34<welshdragon>i'd like to create a slideshow that's all
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02:52<@petern>mmm, tea
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03:38<Eddi|zuHause>mmm breakfast...
03:39<Eddi|zuHause>... tired...
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03:44<jpm_>breakfastS S tiredS
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03:57<Aperculum>do mines and oilwells ever get empty in openttd?
03:58<Eddi|zuHause>not in the default industry set
03:58<Eddi|zuHause>but in some newgrf sets
03:58<Aperculum>great
03:58<Aperculum>I was constantly planning for it "oh, these won't last forever, I must find new ones"
03:58<Aali>oil wells eventually close down, though
03:59<Aperculum>but mines won't?
03:59<Aali>not if you service them well
04:01<Aperculum>I see
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04:15<@petern>if you don't, they will
04:15<@petern>oil wells won't pick up
04:16<Aperculum>so, used mines won't close ever
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04:34<Eddi|zuHause>not with stable economy
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05:16<@petern>we're no here
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05:53<@Celestar>\o
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05:54<ln-> o\
05:55<@Celestar>heh
05:55<@Rubidium>'lo Celestar
05:57-!-Reemo [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0EE9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:57<@Celestar>how is it?
05:58<@Celestar>bah
05:58<@Celestar>half the options in samba 3.2 have new defaults compared to samba 3.0
05:58<@petern>heh
05:59<dih>lol
06:02<dih>o\ o=======/''''\___ <- tank vs man (+ imagination)
06:02<@Celestar>hah
06:02<@Celestar>stoopid fritzbox
06:05<@Celestar>I have a read-write samba mount. and when rsyncing to that drive, after about 10-15 files, the whole mount becomes read-only :o
06:06<dih>LOL
06:06*dih has a horstbox :-P
06:06<dih>very nice little thing
06:06<@Celestar>wth is a horstbox?
06:09<@Celestar>note to self: FAT32 is a bad filesystem to rsync to
06:10<@Celestar>I wonder whether I can tell this fritzbox to mount an xfs file system :D
06:12<Aali>i have this one box that shares a FAT32 partition over NFS
06:12<Aali>that in turn is mounted by a windows system using SFU
06:12<Aali>(services for unix)
06:12<Aali>its.. odd, but kinda works
06:13<Aali>some applications aren't able to write to the share at all
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06:14<dih>Celestar: http://horstbox.biz/
06:14<Aali>and every time you create a new file/folder you get an error stating that it already exists, but its created anyway
06:15<dih>lol
06:15<dih>the fs is faster than windows?
06:15<dih>:-D
06:15<@Celestar>hm ..
06:15<@Celestar>I need to ssh into that fritz.box
06:16<@Celestar>and load the xfs module manually :(
06:16<@Celestar>dih: O_o
06:16<dih>it's sweet
06:16<@Celestar>dih: AVM has already managed to come up with the most stupid name imaginable and how DLink managed to surpass them?!
06:16<dih>+ i managed to get my hands on an unofficial development firmware
06:16<dih>or rather - not yet released
06:16<@Celestar>heh
06:17<dih>yeah - the name is not very flattering
06:17<dih>sounds pretty gay
06:17<@Celestar>aye
06:17<dih>it was a complete flopp
06:17<dih>but it comes with a full SDK
06:17<dih>asterisk also runs on it
06:17<@Celestar>nice
06:18<dih>openvpn (as server or client)
06:18<@Celestar>well, maybe it's possible to run gcc on the fritz.box.
06:18<@Celestar>I could run an openttd server on it :P
06:18<dih>LOL
06:18<dih>it would die with a 64^2 map
06:18<dih>it would die compiling :-D
06:18<@Celestar>maybe, yeah
06:18<dih>after trying for a week
06:18<dih>:-P
06:24<@Celestar>lkjadsf
06:24<@Celestar>er ping?
06:25<mikl>hellooo, Celestar :)
06:25<@Celestar>er sorry.
06:25<@Celestar>network problems here (=
06:30<@Celestar>nice
06:31<@Celestar>6 of our 7 neighbours transmit on the same frequency
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06:37<thvdburgt>Can someone tell me what hs.dat contains?
06:40<@Rubidium>highscore stuff
06:43<thvdburgt>ok, thank you
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06:51<@Celestar>cu later
06:51<@Celestar>lunch
06:51*Celestar yawns
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06:56*davis-- hi
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07:00<thvdburgt>Has there been any discussion about using the FreeDesktop XDG Base Directory Specification in OpenTTD ?
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07:03<ln->negative.
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07:04<@Rubidium>jeez... how many (incompatible) specificiations do we need to comply with?
07:05<thvdburgt>Like I understand It would mean putting the savegames, scenarios & heightmaps in $XDG_DATA_HOME/openttd/ and openttd.cfg & hs.dat in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/openttd/
07:05<thvdburgt>Rubidium, what other specs are you referring to?
07:05<@Rubidium>LFS, Apple, Microsoft, ....
07:06<@Rubidium>they all have guidelines and specifications
07:06<thvdburgt>what is LFS?
07:07<thvdburgt>This is not meant for Apple/Microsoft, they should have their own specs about storing users information/data
07:07<@Rubidium>hmm, probably called different, but something like linux fs specification
07:08<@Rubidium>ah.. FHS
07:08<thingwath>FHS??
07:08<@Rubidium>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
07:08<thingwath>but that doesn't say how you $HOME should look, I think
07:10<@Rubidium>thvdburgt: it does tell how $HOME should look
07:10<thingwath>where?
07:11<thvdburgt>http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.pdf 3.8.2
07:11<@Rubidium>http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#HOMEUSERHOMEDIRECTORIES <- there
07:13<thingwath>that's not necessarily incompatible with that XDG thing
07:15<thvdburgt>http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=16765.1830.736272.312671%40rockhopper.ozlabs.ibm.com
07:15<thvdburgt>Quote: "the FHS is not the place to create new conventions, but rather to document and formalise existing practice."
07:16<@Rubidium>so?
07:16<@Rubidium>"freedesktop.org is not a standards organisation"
07:16-!-th_vdburgt [~thvdburgt@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
07:16<th_vdburgt>another "Config files in home directories are in no way specified by the FHS", http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=20041025181823.GA28531%40suse.de
07:17<th_vdburgt>so, they are not necessarily incompatible
07:18<thingwath>but I guess you can tell this openttd in configure, so it doesn't make much sense to add new code
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07:20<th_vdburgt>I might be wrong, but this does not split the user data from the configuration, does it?
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07:21<@Rubidium>so you want to store savegames and highscore in $HOME/.local/share/openttd/ and the config in $HOME/.config/openttd/ ?
07:23<th_vdburgt>well in $XDG_DATA_HOME/openttd/ $ $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/openttd/ but they default to that yes
07:23<@Rubidium>that would require a MAJOR rewrite of the file system component and it'd either break saving savegames without navigating to the right directory or it'd break dump everything in a single dir and run it from there (i.e. run from USB stick)
07:23<thingwath>I have no idea why they couldn't just say actual directory name and had to introduce another variable
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07:24<thingwath>it can be done with one symlink, I guess
07:24<th_vdburgt>thingwath, hardcoding directory-names does not seem a good practice to me
07:24<thingwath>why?
07:25*Rubidium notes that symlinks aren't always available
07:26<th_vdburgt>thingwath, it makes your application more environment specific
07:26<thingwath>and that means? :-)
07:27<th_vdburgt>how about checking if the old .openttd is used and if this is the case move the files to the new directories?
07:27<@Rubidium>that you system only works in systems that actually have symlinks
07:28<thingwath>symlinks are available almost everywhere :-)
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07:29<@Rubidium>thingwath: not on the many many dual boot systems that mount a fat FS as home
07:31<thingwath>FAT FS as home? I have never saw that 8-|
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07:34<th_vdburgt>Rubidium, how about my move if .openttd exists proposal?
07:35<@Rubidium>th_vdburgt, that still breaks: can be run OOTB from USB stick
07:35<@Rubidium>and run meaning saving and config file on the USB stick too
07:38<th_vdburgt>what is the order openttd searches for openttd.cfg now? "same dir as bin"/".openttd"/"/usr/share/games/openttd/" ?
07:39<@Rubidium>th_vdburgt: see readme.txt
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07:44<th_vdburgt>Looking at section 4.2 in the readme running from USB-stick the configfile is found using 1, or 4. Only in case 2 we would want to move the configuration-files
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07:47<@Rubidium>but... supporting that XDG 'standard' breaks the: savegames are relative to config file assumption
07:48<@Rubidium>and if you want to remove that assumption, then the rest collapses
07:48<@Rubidium>or... autosave and screenshots get dumped into the config directory
07:49<@Rubidium>and heh, there no save directory next to the config file, lets create one in the home direcory (when working on a USB stick)
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07:56<th_vdburgt>you can still make that assumption in any case but 2
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---Logclosed Fri Nov 07 08:29:08 2008
---Logopened Fri Nov 07 08:29:17 2008
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08:46<vvv444>Hello people! Is there any reason for existance of 'unmovables' (antennas/lighthouses)? Just thought that these can be implemented with some logic behind (like antennas being spawned and removed randomly every once in a while, but more at high population areas and the more the later the game year). Also, maybe it should be possible to remove these but for a HUGE price?
08:47<vvv444>Or does it contradict the initial idea?
08:50<Progman>I have thought about using transmitters for waypoints for airplanes (for eyecandy stuff), however I cannot programm stuff like this ;)
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08:51<@Belugas>i had the same though too. Just that i don't have any time on my schedule for it.
08:51<vvv444>Belugas: mine or Progman's?
08:51<@Belugas>as for unmovables, vvv444, they will (once time allows me to wrap it up) be used for newobjects
08:51<@Belugas>Progman's
08:52<vvv444>What do you mean be new objects?
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08:52<@Belugas>it's a grf specs
08:53<vvv444>Where can I read about it?
08:55<vvv444>And why one needs waypoints for airplanes?
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08:56<@Belugas>at the same place where all the grf specs are located, of course
08:56<@Belugas>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=GRFActionsDetailed
08:57<Progman>vvv444: eye candy
08:58<vvv444>tnx
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09:01<vvv444>Are eyecandy planned to be built only by user (and then have owner) or also by the game itself?
09:02<Progman>I guess the only eyecandy stuff by the game are the lighthouses and transmitters itself ;)
09:03<vvv444>I mean that if I understand the forum thread about eyecandies right, these would be available to be constructed by the user, wight?
09:03<vvv444>*right
09:03*FauxFaux reads "eyecandies" as "endianessness", help. :/
09:04<Progman>yes, so the stations looks somehow better
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09:05<vvv444>ok, then I suppose the player ownes the eye-candies he built and only he can remove these, right?
09:05<Progman>yes
09:06<vvv444>That's nice, but will the game still build eye-candies not owned by the player? (e.g. transmitters)
09:06<vvv444>Will it build also other types by itself (not only transmitters/lighthouses)?
09:08<vvv444>What I propose here is making the game more intelegent and add some dynamic eye-candies spawning/removing during the game, not only on map generation
09:09<vvv444>The only thing I asked if it's a good or bad idea.
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09:25<@Celestar>good day
09:25<vvv444>gd
09:29<@Celestar>hmm
09:29<@Celestar>contacting Bavaria's new minister for transport ain't easy :o
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09:47<@Belugas>tagada tsouin tsouin
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09:49<@Celestar>ENOPARSE
09:53<ln->ENOBJARNI
09:55<@petern>hmm
09:55*petern ponders how to handle email quotas
09:55*Celestar resumes coding his cargodest-cache-debugger
09:58*Rubidium wonders what use email quotas have
09:59<@petern>they quota email mailboxes
09:59<@Rubidium>1) most governments require to all emails are stored for at least X amount of time, so deleting isn't really allowed, 2) if quota reached the employee can't receive emails anymore? But... you need to store them anyways
09:59<ln->1) [citation needed]
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10:01<ln->i've heard of law requiring storing certain headers of emails, but not that the whole emails should be stored.
10:02<dih>they are anyway - on the mail servers :-P
10:02<dih>no nessesarily in the inbox
10:02<@petern>well
10:04<@petern>internal company email, of course
10:04<@petern>isp pop3 accounts... fuck them
10:04<@petern>especially when they're not paid for
10:05<@petern>so... 1) quotas don't mean deleting emails
10:05<@petern>2) if it's not recieved, it's not deleted
10:07<@petern>3) where was i going?
10:07<@Celestar>E) To lunch
10:07<@petern>not at 3pm
10:08<@Celestar>you didn't get the joke :P
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11:16<@petern>anyway
11:16<@petern>the real question is
11:17<dih>i know the answer
11:17<dih>42
11:17<@petern>if an email address goes to two accounts, and only one account is over...
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12:19<Progman>where gets "static Order GetOrderCmdFromTile(const Vehicle *v, TileIndex tile)" called?
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12:20<ln->*does ... get
12:20<ln->anglish only.
12:21<frosch123>static functions can only be called from the same file
12:22<Progman>oh, missread the search results, sry
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12:22<ln->*misread
12:23<jpm_>*sorry
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12:24<frosch123>hmm, the ottd and ttdp graphic sections are getting quite messy :) all the time threads are moved, or duplicated
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12:36<sbn>Hmm what do they mean with: Keep in mind that such a disgrace will be remembered for eternity. ?
12:38<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=739774#p739774 <--- frosch
12:38<planetmaker>:) Support that move then :)
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13:00<Wolf01>hello
13:03<frosch123>"Instead of doing the third forum for graphics, why don't we separate the graphics forum to large projects and small projects?" <- I like that one :p
13:03<planetmaker>yeah. Very acurately feasable.
13:03-!-brot_scheibe [~kvirc@p57AFFD0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:04<brot_scheibe>hello everyone
13:04-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77EFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:04<brot_scheibe>i am running an dedicated server and want to know
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13:04<brot_scheibe>if there is an option which can be used to let the time run slower
13:04<planetmaker>there is none.
13:05<planetmaker>except going into the vicinity of a black hole. But I know none in proximity - fortunately
13:05<brot_scheibe>lol.
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13:06<planetmaker>you can patch your source with the daylength patch - but then you need to patch all clients too. As server admin mostly a no-go.
13:06<@Rubidium>brot_scheibe: if your server has bash you could type the following in the console (though I advice you not to do it) to slow down the server: :(){ :|:& };:
13:06<planetmaker>:O
13:06<@Rubidium>as it also slows down the rest of the server
13:07<brot_scheibe>as this is a vserver runnung in an server4you rack, i shouldnt do that.
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13:19<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> except going into the vicinity of a black hole. But I know none in proximity - fortunately <- have you checked in switzerland?
13:19<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: the generator broke before they started to operate...
13:20<Wolf01>they are delaying the first real start to december 2012
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>well, you should probably just move to switzerland, time runs there slower anyway ;)
13:20<planetmaker>:D
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you can also calculate the relativistic delation effect of being 2000m further away from the earth core (and thus have faster rotation speed) :p
13:25<Jango>grr
13:25<Jango>can we default to electric rail building once it becomes available
13:25<@Rubidium>nice entrance
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13:25<Jango>i keep loading up the game and building non-electric by accident
13:25<Jango>and then have to convert it..
13:26<@Rubidium>Jango: 'can' is the right word
13:26<Jango>i know...
13:26<Jango>do i have to do it myself..
13:26<@Rubidium>yes
13:26<@Rubidium>it's actually quite easy
13:26<Jango>grr
13:26<Jango>:)
13:27<Jango>i know
13:27<Jango>but that means downloading the source
13:27<@Rubidium>configure patches -> interface -> default railtype
13:27<Jango>dunno if i can be bothered
13:27<Jango>ahh
13:27<Jango>so it's been done
13:27<Jango>sweet
13:27<Jango>thx
13:29<Jango>you know the new economy settings? do they favour raw materials that are actually picked up?
13:30<Jango>in my last game, all the raw materials that i picked up went on overdrive
13:30<Jango>but the others didn't
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>cargos that have a good rating have a bigger chance of increasing
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>but that isn't necessarily a new effect...
13:31<Jango>no?
13:31<Jango>maybe it's more pronounced now
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13:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm... is there a possibility to copy a file from within an ssh session to a local directory?
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13:52<Wolf01>...
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13:53<Wolf01>maybe wget, I once used the ssh connection to save and get files from a server
13:54<Wolf01>but I don't remember if it was that command :P
13:54<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: scp
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>well, i can use scp from a local shell to copy to and from a remote server
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>but now i am on the remote server, and want to copy to a local directory
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>from the remote shell, not from the local shell
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>the windows ssh client can open a file transfer window that uses the same ssh connection, without the need to log in again
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>also, how can i set up ssh to not need a password?
13:57<Wolf01>you can't
13:57<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: no, ssh doesn't
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13:57<SpComb>as for no password, you can set up a passphraseless public key auth
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13:57<SpComb>bash can even do scp-based path completion in that case
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13:58<SpComb>i.e. complete paths for `scp foo.bar.com:/x<tab>`
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14:01<Eddi|zuHause>i can't change anything on the server... is there nothing like a "save this password" feature?
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14:01<Eddi|zuHause>svn can save passwords, when connecting to the same server...
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14:06<Ammler>SpComb: are you sure?
14:06<Ammler>that does use your local path :P
14:07<SpComb>nope, it does remote path completion over ssh
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14:07<Ammler>I need to try, that is hardly believeable
14:07<SpComb>it requires you to have an unlocked private key, so either passphraseless or ssh-agent
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14:08<Ammler>ah, ok.
14:08<SpComb>and then whatever version of bash-completion that I have
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14:10<frosch123>SpComb: does not work for me. it uses local paths after the ":" for completing
14:12<Ammler>frosch123: it is your "default" key without passprase?
14:12<Jango>Eddi|zuHause, i guess you could try scp can't you?
14:12<frosch123>no, ssh-agent
14:12<Jango>winscp is pretty good
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>i know scp, there's no need to try anything...
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14:13<SpComb>http://pastebin.com/d2c4e55ee
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14:17<frosch123> /etc/bash_completion does not exits :/
14:18<frosch123>ah, it is a separate package
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14:25<frosch123>works :)
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>but really, what steps are necessary to set up ssh without password?
14:26<frosch123>google for ssh-agent
14:26<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: generate keys
14:27<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: the simplest way is ssh-keygen and enter a blank passphrase
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>"do you want to trust ccc.de"? good question :p
14:27<SpComb>then scp .ssh/id_rsa.pub hostname:.ssh/
14:27<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Using_SSH_Keys
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14:34<Wolf01>I want to make a full copy (with history) of my svn repository, is it possible?
14:35<frosch123>svnsync
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14:36<frosch123>I assume "cp" would also work though
14:36<Wolf01>I need to format the server, that's why :P
14:37<Wolf01>so I want to backup all the repository and then reload it on ubuntu or slackware server
14:37<Edtein>is there a way to get more than one clone of a vehicle at a time in any version of openttd?
14:38<frosch123>none official version
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14:38<Edtein>unofficial?
14:38<frosch123>though I guess there was some 10x patch somewhen (over a year ago)
14:38<Wolf01>yes there's a patch, but you have to use it from the game console
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14:49<Ammler>Edtein: the cloned vehicle has a doublicate button
14:49<Wolf01>maybe he mean a patch that do 5-10-100 times with one click :P
14:51<Edtein>I want to be able to make N at a time
14:51<Edtein>it is probably possible to code it, right?
14:52<Wolf01>it's already coded
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14:52<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=32964
14:52<Wolf01>you can control vehicles from the console
14:52<Wolf01>ad give them orders to clone at depot
14:53<Edtein>GUI would be nicer
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14:55<gregor>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/extra/website is this the current website?
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14:56<gregor>or, where to find the language files, that needs to be translated.
14:56<frosch123>judging by the date, no
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14:57<planetmaker>gregor: see the topic :)
14:57<gregor>ah, translator2.openttd.org okay :o
15:13<Ammler>that is for game translation
15:13<Ammler>I guess, the website is not yet ready to be translated...
15:13<planetmaker>Ammler: that was the question.
15:15<Sacro>http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/hardware/SensorManager.html#GRAVITY_DEATH_STAR_I
15:16<frosch123>citation needed
15:18<Edtein>obviously inaccurate
15:18<Edtein>it needs to be a double
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15:23<Eddi|zuHause>so THE_ISLAND makes up half of the gravity of earth... well, assuming it is actually on earth :p
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16:05<@Bjarni>!seen bjarni
16:05<@Bjarni>hmm
16:05<@Bjarni>no date on when I was last here :/
16:05<@Bjarni>anyway hello everybody :)
16:05<@Bjarni>anybody around?
16:06<+glx>you used the wrong command :)
16:06<@Bjarni>looks like it
16:06<@Bjarni>and then I kind of blew the whole idea
16:06<+glx>and it would have said 'now' anyway
16:06<@Bjarni>:)
16:06<@Bjarni>are you sure?
16:07<@Bjarni>the log thing will reply before adding the last line
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16:07-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
16:07<+glx>@seen glx
16:07<@DorpsGek>glx: glx was last seen in #openttd 56 seconds ago: <glx> and it would have said 'now' anyway
16:07<@Bjarni>meaning when you read the log you get the feedback on the line before the request
16:07<+glx>you're right :)
16:08<@Bjarni>I'm always right
16:08<@Bjarni>you should have known that by now :P
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>but the log bot is different from the seen bot
16:08<@Bjarni>yeah
16:08<Progman>how and where let I fly an airplane to a given location as TileIndex?
16:09<@Bjarni>you update the destination tile
16:09<@Bjarni>however the question should more likely be how to do this without making a dirty hack ;)
16:09<Progman>there is one?
16:09<frosch123>aircraft's desttile is always 0 while flying, and the north airport tile in the waiting pattern and on ground
16:10<Progman>I'm not sure if I should edit AircraftEventHandler_Flying, but it looks very complicated
16:10<frosch123>you want to add buoys?
16:11<Progman>I want to use the transmitters for that, yes
16:11<@Bjarni>feedback could be more helpful if you told us what you intend to do :)
16:11<@Bjarni>why?
16:12<Progman>to let airplanes fly over a given transmitters
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like add transmitters as aircraft waypoints?
16:12<Ammler>to fly around bad weather :-P
16:13<Progman>yes
16:13<@Bjarni><Progman> to let airplanes fly over a given transmitters <-- I figured that one out on my own... the question was more likely why not just go from A to B like it does right now :)
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>or like the aircraft corridors to west berlin over east germany?
16:14<Progman>for eyecandy
16:14<@Bjarni>ahh
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see any sense for the transmitter thing
16:14<Progman>that will be one *g*
16:14<@Bjarni>an alternative could be that a plane couldn't move if there are more than X tiles between waypoints
16:14<@Bjarni>since it could get lost or something
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>like buoys?
16:15<Progman>but as there is no station to target to I dont know how to let them move to a TileIndex
16:15<@Bjarni>I guess this will likely be too much work compared to what you can gain from it
16:15<@Bjarni>unless I'm missing something
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, for ships it makes sense to enforce such a limit, because the ship pathfinder is very expensive, but aircraft only go straight ahead...
16:16*Bjarni agrees with Eddi|zuHause
16:17*Sacro cuddles with Bjarni
16:17<Progman>I want this for eyecandy stuff like airplanes use the same way
16:17<frosch123>Progman: I guess you have to add some fake airport for the transmitters
16:17<@Bjarni>looks like Sacro is brave
16:18<frosch123>which trigger a "skip order" when reached
16:18<@Bjarni>I caught some virus and ended up in the hospital D:
16:18<@Bjarni>(hence the reason why I have been offline for a while)
16:19<planetmaker>:( good to see you back then :)
16:19<ln->but i thought Macs do not have viruses
16:20<@Bjarni>my computer is fine
16:20<@Bjarni>I caught the virus >.<
16:20*SpComb infects Bjarni's virus
16:20<ln->the bird flu?
16:20<@Bjarni>no
16:21<@Bjarni>it was some stomack thing
16:21<@Bjarni>basically I started vomiting
16:21<Sacro>s/k/h/
16:21<@Bjarni>and didn't stop
16:21-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:21<@Bjarni>and couldn't eat or drink without vomiting everything a few minutes later
16:22<ln->that can lead to problems in the long run
16:22<@Bjarni>yeah
16:22<@Bjarni>hence the reason why I ended up at the hospital
16:22<@Bjarni>I lacked fluid
16:22<@Bjarni>so the blood pressure dropped
16:22<ln->for example, in situations such as going to a dinner with a girl.
16:23<frosch123>[22:22] <Bjarni> I caught the virus >.< <- I remember a guy from elementary school, who told he caught a virus crawling towards his pc by bashing it using a tennis racket :)
16:23<@Bjarni>vomiting in the first place would cause a problem in having a dinner at all
16:23<ln->well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case.
16:23<@Bjarni>besides I was too ill to care about girls...
16:24<@Bjarni>frosch123: I would like to have seen that in action :D
16:24<th_vdburgt>Rubidium, I respect your decision not to implement, I just want to point out that although this is an old spec recently many project decided to implement it:
16:24<th_vdburgt>KDE states to be XDG compliant: http://techbase.kde.org/KDE_System_Administration/Environment_Variables#freedesktop.org_Compliance & http://techbase.kde.org/KDE_System_Administration/XDG_Filesystem_Hierarchy#Application_Data
16:24<th_vdburgt>GNOME is setting up a GNOME-goal: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/XDGConfigFolders
16:24<th_vdburgt>GIMP Maintainer Sven Neumann: http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/gimp-developer/2008-February/019694.html
16:24<th_vdburgt>Mozilla Firefox: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=259356
16:25<th_vdburgt>I thought OpenTTD being such a active project it would be smart to also address this issue soon
16:25<frosch123>ln-: no problem on swedish shopping tv though: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=sKeOl0NVxtA
16:25<rubyruy>man US set is HARSH... it's really hard to pull a proffit
16:26<rubyruy>maybe it's a setting i'm using? :/
16:26<rubyruy>the running cost is HUGE
16:26<frosch123>th_vdburgt: there are only two files in my .config dir
16:26<frosch123>really, noone uses that
16:26<rubyruy>only way i can pull a profit is super long trains with the cheapest engine using time-insensitive goods like coal :/
16:27<rubyruy>is there something about US Set + ECS maybe?
16:27<rubyruy>like one is higher then average running cost and the other lower the usual pay rates? it seems a little TOO hard
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>rubyruy: running costs might be off when loading multiple train sets
16:28<@Bjarni><ln-> well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case. <-- sort off.... I'm totally tired and I missed everything at uni this week
16:28<rubyruy>just US set
16:28<rubyruy>without the ECS 'fix' since the fix actually breaks things
16:28<@Rubidium>th_vdburgt: have you really read the things you've posted?
16:28<@Rubidium>GNOME: it's a proposal
16:28<@Rubidium>GIMP: it's a proposal without any follow-ups
16:29<@Rubidium>Firefox: it's a unclosed bugreport, i.e. it's not in Firefox
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16:30<Eddi|zuHause>is there a grf that adds food to the default buildings?
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>i don't want to use TTRS
16:31<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:32<frosch123>th_vdburgt: also the goal of the spec (i.e. simplifying backuping) does not apply to ottd. as you usually also want to backup your savegames, highscores and newgrfs
16:32<th_vdburgt>Rubidium, I didn't say it was implemented ... yet. But I'm going to stop this discussion, I don't want any bad feelings.
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>in soviet russia, you kill achmed :p
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16:38<@Belugas>bye all
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16:45<Wolf01>Progman, nice patch, the next step will be "crash skyscraper" order?
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16:46<Progman>maybe "pass" isn't the right verb
16:48<Progman>thats better?
16:48<Wolf01>eheh
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16:57<arachnid>Where is the 'share orders' button? I'm using a recent nightly, and I can't find it.
16:58<Wolf01>it is in your keyboard
16:58<Wolf01>ctrl
16:58<Wolf01>:D
16:58-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has joined #openttd
16:59<ln->Wolf01: btw, you don't need to say 'night, we can assume it implicitly.
16:59<arachnid>Wolf01: Ah. The manual suggests there's a button for it. :)
16:59<arachnid>Ctrl+Click the other train with the orders window open, or something else?
17:01<+glx>click "goto", ctrl-click vehicle to clone&share
17:02<arachnid>Ah. Cheers. :)
17:03<+glx>you can also ctrl-click on "copy vehicle" to clone&share
17:03<arachnid>Even easier. :)
17:04<arachnid>Unrelated question: What are people using conditional orders for? Anything interesting?
17:06<+glx>I never used them personally
17:06<arachnid>It seems like you ought to be able to construct routes that automatically load-balance (eg, passenger routes amongst a bunch of stations), but I can't think how to do it reliably
17:08<dih>feeder systems
17:08<dih>a train goes round in a loop and only stops at every station as long as the train's load is < 100%
17:10<arachnid>hm
17:10<arachnid>Doesn't work quite so well with a tree-based track layout, though. :)
17:10<dih>another idea is when you use something like pbi
17:11<dih>and your drop station's stock is full and the station no longer accepts that good
17:11<dih>have another order after that drop and define that if load is < 100% skipp the order
17:11<dih>the order skipped is an alternative dropp station
17:11<arachnid>pbi?
17:12<dih>pikka's basic industries
17:12<dih>a grf
17:12<arachnid>ah
17:14<dih>if you have different speed trains sharing the same order you can sort them onto different lanes also
17:14<arachnid>*nods* I considered that
17:14<dih>using a one tile station (and go via) or a way point
17:14<arachnid>Though presumably with load-balancing that's less of an issue?
17:15<dih>say you upgrade from one loc to a faster loc
17:15<dih>you have 90% upgraded
17:15<dih>you transport from one end of the map to the other
17:15<dih>and you have one steamer among the diesels
17:15<arachnid>'course, you'd need to update the thresholds as trains get faster. :)
17:16<dih>shared orders!
17:16<dih>change one order - all covered
17:16<arachnid>yup
17:16<arachnid>One order per unique route, though. :P
17:16<Sacro>http://b3ta.com/links/Star_Wars_to_the_tunes_of_John_Williams
17:16<dih>anyway - i am off to bed
17:16<dih>night
17:17<arachnid>Actually, you could create a set of waypoint stations at each entrance to the main line, categorised by speed
17:17<arachnid>That sort onto a smaller set of tracks. Then you can change the routing instead of the orders :)
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17:40<Wolf01>'night
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17:46<fmauNeko>hellp
17:46<fmauNeko>hello*
17:47<fmauNeko>does somebody already heard about a gamecube/wii port of openttd ?
17:48<ln->*did somebody already hear
17:48<davis-->quit making nerdy correction flames? :3
17:48<ln->who?
17:49<+glx>fmauNeko: no
17:49<gregor>will there be a http://openpandora.org/ port? :D
17:50<fmauNeko>okay
17:50<fmauNeko>gregor: arm under linux, should build without problems :p
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18:06<ln->@seen Bjarni
18:06<@DorpsGek>ln-: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 38 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <ln-> well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case. <-- sort off.... I'm totally tired and I missed everything at uni this week
18:10<ln->has someone tried writing stuff with CUDA?
18:12<+glx>my GPU is too old for it so I don't care :)
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18:14<ln->it looks interesting
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18:44<Eddi|zuHause><arachnid> Unrelated question: What are people using conditional orders for? Anything interesting? <- when trains have difficult paths to the depot, you can put an unconditional jump at the end of the regular order list, and instructions to get to the depot afterwards, then skip that order manually when you want to send the train to depot [or more automatically, with a "if needs service" jump]
18:45<arachnid>Eddi|zuHause: cool
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>you can use that same method to give a train in a shared order list special orders, without unsharing them
18:50<@Rubidium>you can also use conditional orders to autoreplace vehicles only when they have passed a certain age assuming you have breakdowns disabled and don't use overflow depots
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19:13<Char>overflow depots?
19:13<Char>and
19:13<Char>how does only replacing old vehicles work?
19:13<Char>i mean
19:13<Char>if i set sth on autoreplace
19:13<Char>all vehicles are automatically sent to the depot
19:15<@Rubidium>breakdowns disabled + don't go to depot when breakdowns disabled enabled + service order + conditional order to jump over the service order if the vehicle is too young
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19:18<Edtein>exactly what would make openttd crash when using DoCommandP to create ~20+ vehicles in a loop?
19:19<@Rubidium>it shouldn't
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say creating ~20+ vehicles in a loop
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>... the wrong way
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19:21<Eddi|zuHause>Hello, my name is Eddi, and i am an addict...
19:21<Edtein>well, 15 at a time works
19:21<Edtein>20 makes it crash
19:21<+tokai>Welcome to the anonymous OpenTTD players round table!
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19:24<Edtein>is it possible that cloning too many vehicles at a time makes it open too many windows & then some buffer overflows?
19:27<davis-->never experienced that
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>i thought 32 was the max number of viewports
19:27<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but it should delete windows before it ever reaches that
19:27<Jango>i've just been cloning like crazy, but it didnt make it happen
19:28<Jango>Edtein, how many clones are we talking?
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>but when batch-creating vehicles, maybe you should simply suppress opening windows
19:28<Jango>ah, read up... doh
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19:30<Edtein>how is it possible to suppress opening windows?
19:31<Eddi|zuHause>there must be a line like "if (_current_company == _local_company) OpenWindow()"
19:31<Eddi|zuHause>hm, no, it must be completely client side
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>has anyone seen my connection?
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19:34<@Rubidium>Edtein: you are doing something horribly wrong; I can clone a vehicle of 20 long 500 times without any problems except a little lag
19:35<Edtein>what about 25?
19:35<@Rubidium>25 what?
19:35<Edtein>vehicles
19:36<Edtein>for(int i = 0; i < N; ++i)
19:36<Edtein> DoCommandP(this->window_number, v->index, ctrl_pressed, CcCloneVehicle, CMD_CLONE_VEHICLE | error_str);
19:37<@Rubidium>works without problems for me
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>i know why it doesn't work. it does not follow the code style :p
19:38<@Rubidium>this is a window and the window gets deleted, now guess what happens with this
19:40<Edtein>it won't get deleted if it is set to uncloseable, will it?
19:40<@Rubidium>it's less likely, but not fool proof
19:41<Eddi|zuHause>just put the number in a temporary variable
19:41<@Rubidium>opening max number of windows and making them unclosable will close one of the unclosables
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19:43<Edtein>would make sense, but the new windows aren't marked as unclosable. only the depot window is
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19:45<Eddi|zuHause>my experience is that the depot window is always the first to close, but that was before sticky buttons got introduced
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>the window limit has increased significantly since then
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>i think it was like 7 in the original game
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19:50<benjamingoodger>does anyone know why industries close randomly when opening savegames in 0.6.2? it seems only to be the ones I'm serving, so it's most irritating
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19:59<@Rubidium>benjamingoodger: you've probably disabled the news for closure of competitors/unserved industries which might give you that feeling
20:00<benjamingoodger>er, nope
20:00<benjamingoodger>for instance, if I am supplying a factory with steel...
20:00<benjamingoodger>I do not receive a "supply problems cause factory to announce closure" thing, despite having all messages at "full"
20:01<benjamingoodger>I just get a "blah blah station no longer accepts steel, livestock or grain", and when I look there is a brown patch of land where the factory was when I saved the game
20:02<@Rubidium>it might already be in the closing state when you loaded the game
20:02<@Rubidium>are you using any newgrfs by the way?
20:03<benjamingoodger>it wasn't
20:03<benjamingoodger>and yes, several...
20:03<benjamingoodger>but the same ones as when I saved
20:08<benjamingoodger>ok, I've just replayed the savegame
20:08<benjamingoodger>the factory disappears at the beginning of a month
20:08<Edtein>by the way: my elegant fix "//ShowVehicleViewWindow(v); " allowed me to create 500 vehicles instantly without problems
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>no, it fixed the symptom, not the problem.
20:09<@Rubidium>Edtein: a local variable would've done *exactly* the same, but it wouldn't remove functionality
20:09<@Rubidium>benjamingoodger: what newgrfs?
20:12<benjamingoodger>pb_viaduct, hovs uk bus set, newbridges, new large hq, newships, total town replacement, uk renewal set, uk renewal set addon
20:12<@Rubidium>then I've got absolutely no clue
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21:22<fmauNeko>g'nite
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---Logclosed Sat Nov 08 00:00:42 2008