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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-11-08

---Logopened Sat Nov 08 00:00:42 2008
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04:39<ln->Bjarni!
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05:01<Wolf01>hello
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09:03<Aperculum>do forests run out of wood eventually?
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09:05<Aali>no
09:05<SpComb>it grows back
09:06<Aperculum>faster than I can use it?
09:06<Aperculum>I see
09:06<Aperculum>good
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09:07<@petern>unless it's a subtropic sawmill
09:08<Aperculum>well, I use the default terrain, don't know what it is
09:09<Aperculum>seems to be temperate
09:14<Edtein>how can I determine whether I have a valid vehicle pointer?
09:15<frosch123>if (v != NULL && v->IsValid())
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09:27<Aperculum>Edtein, wow, you're way ahead of me on this game :)
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09:28<Aperculum>I just got my first oil tanker system working
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10:28<Aylomen>is it possible to have one data folder for more than one OpenTTD.exe?
10:28<ln->http://churumuri.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/an-unmanned-level-crossing-in-the-indian-ocean/
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10:30<@Rubidium>yes + read the readme
10:33<Aylomen>ah, thx
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10:39<Edtein>has there been a GUI structure change between 0.6 and trunk?
10:42<+glx>yes
10:42<+glx>or maybe it was between 0.5 and 0.6
10:44<Edtein>the depot gui window looks a lot friendlier in the current version
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10:50<arachnid>How do you calculate how many diagonals you need for a given TL train to avoid slowdowns?
10:51<arachnid>And do you need to respect that length for an s-bend?
10:51<davis>try and error i think ..
10:52<arachnid>I have a test track, and the train slow down even on a 45 degree turn. Confusing.
10:52<davis>hm
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11:12<SmatZ>arachnid: enable realistic acceleration
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11:29<Chommik>hello
11:30<Chommik>how can I add language to OpenTTD?
11:31<ln->polish is already there.
11:31-!-Edtein [~Otinn@cnat239.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
11:32<Chommik>i have version 0.6.3 linux generic binaries and i don't have polish
11:33<Chommik>can i download it from CVS/SVN? is there something like this?
11:34<Progman>how did you install it?
11:35<Chommik>i unpacked it, copied files from windows version. it works, but don't have polish language
11:37<frosch123>do you have a "lang" folder, where you unpacked it?
11:38<Chommik>i have all binaries unpacked to /home/ttd
11:38<Chommik>sorry ~/ttd
11:39<frosch123>and was there also a "lang" folder in the archive? and did you also unpack that one?
11:39<Chommik>yes, there was some other folders, unpacked it to ~/ttd too
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11:39<Progman>[17:39] progman@proglap ~ $ tar -tzf openttd-0.6.3-linux-generic-amd64.tar.gz | grep polish.lng
11:39<Progman>openttd-0.6.3-linux-generic-amd64/lang/polish.lng
11:39<Progman>there is one lang file, so it should work
11:40<Chommik>hmm, I found polish in binaries for windows, will it work?
11:40<Progman>which file did you download?
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>the .lng files should work ony any platform, but the version must match exactly
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>-y
11:41<Chommik>Linux Generic Binaries (i686, 32bit)
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11:41<Chommik>(bzip2 archwive)
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>in any case, the .lng files should already be in the download
11:42<Progman>[17:42] progman@proglap ~ $ tar -tzf openttd-0.6.3-linux-generic-i686.tar.gz | grep polish
11:42<Progman>openttd-0.6.3-linux-generic-i686/lang/polish.lng
11:42<Progman>indeed it is
11:42<Chommik>ok, i have it. thanks!
11:42<Progman>can you select any other language?
11:43<Chommik>yes, i have long list
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11:44<Progman>and there isn't an entry for "Polish"?
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11:45<Chommik>now there is
11:45<Chommik>when i copied file polish.lng
11:46<davis->:]
11:47<Chommik>thanks, but now i see one more problem: polish fonts
11:53<thingwath>http://ttd.tycoonez.com/?id=144 maybe this can help (at least for czech it is enough :-))
11:56<Chommik>hmm, i try this from your wiki
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12:42<Edtein>my clone patch works without any ugly (imho) hacks :-)
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13:09<ln->¡Bjarni!
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13:19<jnd>hi, I'm trying the UKRS and there is nothing for wood but Bolster Wagon for steel with note it can be rebuild to wood, but how?
13:20<frosch123>attach it to a train, open the train window while it is inside a depot, and click on the icon with the two boxes
13:21<jnd>ok, ty
13:22<Progman>its called "Cargo refit"
13:24<Progman>jnd: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Refit
13:26<jnd>right, I couldn't find it cos I don't have it in english
13:26<Progman>the icon is the same o_O
13:27<Edtein>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=40391
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13:30<jnd>icon yes but the name
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13:36<De_Ghosty>open ttd can use muti core?
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13:38<KurtKraut>I saw a wiki once teaching how to use PBS signals to make tracks 'reversable' for trains to reduce the traffic jam caused by breakdowns but I'm unable to find it. Does anyone know the URL of this wiki ?
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13:39<@Rubidium>KurtKraut: that is most likely the unimplemented 'realistic' PBS proposal
13:39<@Rubidium>De_Ghosty: it can use multiple cores, but most likely not in the way you expect it to do
13:39<KurtKraut>Rubidium, I'm using the nightly build
13:40<KurtKraut>Rubidium, even in the nightly build this is not implemented ?
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13:40<@Rubidium>KurtKraut: I expect you meant http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Realistic_Path_Based_Signalling
13:41<@Rubidium>and if that's the page, then not everything shown on that page is implemented
13:41<@Rubidium>and it's pretty likely some things shown there don't even work with the current PBS
13:42<KurtKraut>Rubidium, the funny thing is... it is not that page I saw. It was purpusing this realistic signal for reducing the impact of breakdowns. And this wiki you showed me does not contain the 'breakdown'.
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13:43<@Rubidium>then I've got no idea
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13:44<KurtKraut>Rubidium, is there a roadmap of this realistic signaling AI that I could follow ?
13:44<KurtKraut>follow in order to do beta testing
13:46<@Rubidium>something like: a) find somebody that will code it for you or code it youself, b) wait till it is implemented, c) do alpha testing, d) do beta testing
13:46<@Rubidium>i.e. nobody's working on it
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13:47<KurtKraut>Rubidium, oh, I see... I'm sad to hear that. It is for me such an important feature.
13:48<@Rubidium>there is PBS in trunk though, but not it's not what's described in that realistic pbs proposal
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13:50<rortom>hi
13:50<Eddi|zuHause><Progman> the icon is the same o_O <- you can't search for an icon :p
13:51<rortom>im wondering if i should write some ncurses backend for the console
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14:03<Swallow>Rubidium: Is the 'testing stuff' of r14566 (busyness stats) planned to be included in trunk?
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14:05<@Rubidium>not in that way cause it fails to show the real busy pieces
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14:08<rortom>Rubidium, would you accept a http://pdcurses.sourceforge.net/index.html written interface for the dedicated server?
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14:12<@Rubidium>what's the use in making the dedicated server depend on X?
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14:14<rortom>Rubidium, its a console "GUI"
14:15<rortom>and GUI means, separate logging sutff from the input line, at least thats my target
14:15<rortom>with player overview on the right side
14:15<rortom>like an IRC client
14:16<@Rubidium>"PDCurses is a public domain curses library for DOS, OS/2, Win32, X11 and SDL" <- please tell me how that should be read as not depending on X/SDL?
14:17<rortom>hmm
14:17<rortom>strange, let me see
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14:25<rortom>thats strange
14:25<rortom>native linux users should use curses
14:25<rortom>*ncurses
14:25<rortom>and windows users pdcurses i think
14:26<rortom>so i should write a ncurses backend i think?
14:27<rortom>would you agree on a linux only dedicated server console? :\
14:42<+glx>no
14:43<+glx>if a feature exists, it should be available for all platforms
14:44<Tefad>Rubidium: how about serial terminals.
14:54<Swallow>Setting the data property of a WWT_PUSHTXTBTN widget to STR_NULL displays "(undefined string)", but for a dropdown button it just shows nothing. Is this intentional?
14:56<Swallow>looking at widget.cpp... dropdown code is this: if (str != STR_NULL) DrawStringTruncated(...
14:57<Swallow>while the if clause isn't present for (push)textbuttons
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15:08<@petern>with the operative on TEXT
15:13<Swallow>Normally it shows text, but sometimes I needs to be empty
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15:13<Swallow>*it needs to be empty
15:13<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:14<@petern>well
15:14<@petern>you could just use STR_EMPTY, heh
15:18<Swallow>That's more or less what I already did, was just pointing out the difference in behaviour
15:32<benjamingoodger>hmm
15:33<benjamingoodger>is anyone working on a more realistic economic simulation?
15:35<frosch123>if you emphasise "realistic" and not "simulation" you can try "manual industries" :p
15:35<benjamingoodger>indeed
15:37<benjamingoodger>I was thinking more about stocks and shares, having just finished a book on financial management...a colossal bank loan is not necessarily a good way of financing a railway company, and I could see a use for balance sheets and profit and loss accounts
15:39<frosch123>oh, you mean the type of economy which needs the railroad-part only to appear legitimate
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15:41<benjamingoodger>eh?
15:43*Nite_Owl cuts the sarcasm with his trusty pocket knife
15:44<benjamingoodger>er, quite
15:44<frosch123>well, I was referring to that kind of companies, which are knowns for e.g. producing automobiles, but actually have a higher PBT than business-volume
15:45<benjamingoodger>I'll presume you mean turnover
15:45<benjamingoodger>and yes, that sort of thing happens all the time
15:46<benjamingoodger>but I mean, if I buy a competitor's company, I can only buy at the balance-sheet total value, and it shows up as a loss on the year-end report (which is completely improper)
15:50<Swallow>It's not improper, although I agree it's unwieldy
15:50<benjamingoodger>it is improper, it violates the very first words of any accounting course (assets - liabilities = capital)
15:50<Swallow>The (O)TTD financial report deals with changes of the bank balance, not with profits and losses
15:51<benjamingoodger>this being the trouble
15:53<Swallow>I wholeheartedly agree that an overview of profits and losses would be very practical
15:55<benjamingoodger>well, I can't code anything, but I can provide a detailed specification for an overhaul of OTTD's corporate finance
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>well, make it complete and detailed enough that someone with coding experience can write it 1:1
15:59<Swallow>IIRC The devs' opinion is that this is a transportation game, not an economic simulation
16:00<benjamingoodger>well, obviously
16:00<benjamingoodger>there's no need to go all "railroad tycoon 2"
16:01<benjamingoodger>I shall begin work on such a spec
16:01<Swallow>I'd recommend keeping it really simple, simple enough for let's say a 12-year-old without any financial knowledge to understand
16:01<benjamingoodger>yep, my spec will not prevent that
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16:34<Edtein>is there any action that uses alt+click?
16:35<frosch123>no, alt is generally not used
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16:46<ln->off-topic: http://☃.net/
16:46<davis->opera:illegal-url-20
16:47<Tefad>http://xn--n3h.net/
16:47<Tefad>opera sucks ; )
16:47<ln->seems so
16:51<davis->does not
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16:53<Edtein>is there a good reason for making you player #1 when you load a multiplayer game in single player?
17:03<davis->well if you start a single player game you are player #1 for default
17:03<davis->I assume
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17:05<Eddi|zuHause>Edtein: how would you save which player you were, considering that the exact same savegame will get transfered from server to client when he joins?
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18:06<Wolf01>(1 hour late) Eddi|zuHause, it should be possible to show a popup which asks the player for the company to join ;)
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18:07<davis->Wolf01
18:07<davis->just use the single player cheats then
18:07<davis->to join a special company
18:07<Wolf01>or start a local multiplayer game
18:07<davis->or that
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19:10<Wolf01>'night
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19:43<Nazcafan>hello
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19:45<@Rubidium>'lo
19:46<Nazcafan>I am trying a recent build of openttd, but I get an error message at startup saying that come characters (maybe euro sign) might not be available with the current language setting
19:46<Nazcafan>I checked the readme file, and I tried to add Sans as the font in my openttd.cfg file, but I get this error:
19:47<Nazcafan>Unable to use 'Sans' for large font, FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead
19:50<Nazcafan>is there something I misssed?
19:51<@Rubidium>looking at the error number tells me: "cannot open resource", i.e. it cannot find the font
19:53<+tokai>Don't you have to specify a .tff file? so /path/to/you/font.tff maybe? At least that's how it works here AFAIR.
19:53<+tokai>.ttf actually
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19:57<Nazcafan>mhh
20:02<Nazcafan>tokai, Rubidium right, giving the font/path/...ttf works fine
20:02<Nazcafan>thanks
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20:33<Antdovu>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=40391
20:33<Antdovu>any suggestions how to do the old/new method separation in a reasonable way?
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20:35<benjamingoodger>erm
20:35<benjamingoodger>I'm with commanderZ and yexo here
20:36<benjamingoodger>it seems useful in theory, but not very much in practise
20:36<benjamingoodger>I would, instead, have the clone button as a toggle, so it stays in clone mode once you have cloned a train
20:38<Antdovu>the toggle part seems like a good idea
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20:38<Nazcafan>I don't like the idea of entering the number of clones
20:38<Nazcafan>I mean, typing it
20:39<Nazcafan>I use a french keyboard, and typing such number requires holding the shift key, i.e. leave the mouse
20:40<benjamingoodger>surely you can hold shift with your left hand?
20:40<Nazcafan>I wonder whether an interface that let the user set the number of clones, maybe with +/- buttons would be more efficient
20:40<benjamingoodger>I can type shift-7 with one hand
20:41<Nazcafan>benjamingoodger, I can, but it is not convenient
20:41<Antdovu>do you really have to use 2 keys at once to type a number? :S
20:41<benjamingoodger>I...see
20:41<Nazcafan>benjamingoodger, I can, but it is not convenienti
20:42<Nazcafan>argh
20:42<Nazcafan>Antdovu, yes, I do
20:42<Nazcafan>I couls also use the num-keypad, but it is not available on laptops
20:43<Antdovu>the lack of one key numbers doesn't sound too convenient
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20:47<Antdovu>but any ideas how to make the old button act the same as it does now & at the same time give a prompt on a slightly different input sequence?
20:47<Antdovu>ctrl+click & shift+click won't work
20:48<Antdovu>and two buttons with the similar content length would be too large
20:54<Nazcafan>what about a double click?
20:55<welshdragon>Nazcafan, buy a usb numpad
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20:58<welshdragon>Nazcafan, http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=usb+keypad&x=0&y=0
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21:01<Antdovu>can you accurately detect a double click?
21:02<Antdovu>for some reason I usually get 2 single clicks in row even if I have OnDoubleClick() defined
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21:04<Antdovu>the only way OnDoubleClick() gets called is when the button is already down
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 09 00:00:44 2008