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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-11-16

---Logopened Sun Nov 16 00:00:56 2008
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00:31<George>OTTD devs, what about FS 1941? A patch was updated as frosch has suggested.
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04:06<Wolf01>hello
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04:24<Alberth>hello
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05:37<ln>hello
05:42<FR^2>hiho
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06:02<Tefad>halo
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06:07<yorick>why are the MP_VOID tiles still kept?
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06:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14579 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/ai/api/ai_engine.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: ships have their own rules for refitting (Morloth)
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07:44<yorick>debug builds are 30 mb :o
07:48<FauxFaux>7-zip'll fix that quite quickly.
07:52<Alberth>hg repo of trunk is already 70MB without building anything
07:53<@Rubidium>that's what a few years of history does ;)
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>time for another repository crash :p
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07:57<@Rubidium>then we'd just reimport a hg/git repository
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>but that wouldn't solve the history size problem then :p
08:01<Qball>git normally manages history quiet efficient
08:02<Ammler>is ottd git repo smaller?
08:03<Qball>git gc to clean it
08:05<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14580 /trunk/ (Makefile.bundle.in media/ os/win32/installer/install.nsi): -Fix [FS#2404]: scripts directory not being copied into bundles.
08:06<yorick>Rubidium, I still don't see the use of a double-check on a CMD_OFFLINE command...
08:07<yorick>better just remove the CMD_OFFLINE-ness if running debug mode
08:07<yorick>and make it CMD_SERVER?
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08:15<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like a horrible idea
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>the server might be a player, too
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>which would then be unlimitedly able to cheat
08:17<yorick>what did you think I need it for...
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08:19<planetmaker>cheatahh!
08:22<yorick>nono, feeding the landflattener-restore script
08:23<yorick>I can't be a control-freak admin without unlimited money!
08:24<yorick>btw, you have no way to access the money-cheat in non-debug mode
08:25<planetmaker>hu? Works for me in SP.
08:25<yorick>yes, MP
08:25<yorick>the client-side check is not really needed
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08:50<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14581 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix: make rail, road and canal building behave the same when overbuilding already built stretches.
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09:08<yorick>SB(_m[t].m3, 0, 2, 1); <-- if I do this, will bit 0 be set to 1?
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09:09<SmatZ>yes, and bits 1,2 to 0
09:09<yorick>ok :)
09:09<SmatZ>errrr
09:09<SmatZ>only bit 1
09:10<yorick>yes, that
09:10<yorick>thanks
09:12<yorick>SB(_m[t].m3, 2, 0, 1); <-- and if I do this, bit 1 is set to 1?
09:12<SmatZ>no
09:12<SmatZ>2 = starting bit position 0 = number of affected bits (0 is meaningless here) 1 = value to write
09:12<yorick>ok
09:13<yorick>that way
09:13<+glx>SB(_m[t].m3, 0, 2, 2); or SB(_m[t].m3, 1, 1, 1); or SETBIT(_m[t].m3, 1);
09:18<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14582 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt terraform_cmd.cpp terraform_gui.cpp):
09:18<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2392]: blank box on cost estimation of levelling a flat area.
09:18<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix: make levelling, raising and lowering of an area behave the same.
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09:24*sladen thought it would pop by after having made the effort of signing up with flyspray
09:24<sladen>he would
09:25<sladen>do we have a 'Rubidium' around here?
09:27<planetmaker>never seen or heard of him :P
09:27-!-rortom [~rortom_@5aca97b0.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
09:27<planetmaker>except... when looking through commit list, talking about OpenTTD and stuff ;)
09:28*Rubidium doesn't remember seeing or hearing a 'Rubidium' either
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09:29<Antdovu>what is this 'OpenTTD' you keep talking about?
09:30<planetmaker>Open tedious tasks in development ;)
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>how do MSVC builds get endian_target.h?
09:34<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: they don't
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>then why is this thing telling me it doesn't find it...
09:35<+glx>msvc doesn't need it
09:36<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: probably because WIN32/WIN64 isn't defined
09:36<sladen>Rubidium: the error comes (of the bug that was closed earlier) comes from gfxinit/CheckExternalFiles(); which is checking only that the uppercase MD5s in tables/files.h files_win[] match
09:36<+glx>and that's weird as WIN32/WIN64 are magically defined
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09:37<@Rubidium>sladen: so you weren't using trunk?
09:38*sladen looks. apparently not. 0.6.0
09:39<+glx>so why did you set reported version to trunk ?
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09:39<Eddi|zuHause>well, i don't exactly use MSVC :p... my command line looks something like this: edgcpfe --microsoft --microsoft_bugs --microsoft_version=1400 -x -e3 -tused -D_M_IX86=500 -DWIN32 -D_CONSOLE -DWIN32_EXCEPTION_TRACKER -DWIN32_ENABLE_DIRECTMUSIC_SUPPORT -DWITH_ZLIB -DWITH_PNG -DWITH_FREETYPE -DENABLE_NETWORK -DWITH_PERSONAL_DIR -DPERSONAL_DIR=\"OpenTTD\" -DWITH_ASSERT articulated_vehicles.cpp
09:39<sladen>glx: because it my old tree on the harddrive
09:39<rortom>lol: --microsoft_bugs
09:39<sladen>glx: so this is something that got changed/fixed in the last 6 month
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>where i read the -D thingies out of the vcproj
09:40<+glx>sladen: I mean "Reported Version ,...trunk" in the FS task details
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>rortom: well, there are things that microsoft does non-standard, and things, that microsoft does plainly wrong :p
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>hence the two switches for microsoft dialect ;)
09:41<rortom>Eddi|zuHause: who wonders ;)
09:41<@Rubidium>sladen: nothing did change the last 6 months; since *at least* 0.4.0 both uppercase and lowercase are checked
09:42<sladen>let me suck down the latest over GPRS and I'll retest
09:42<@Rubidium>sladen: furthermore it works on unix with lowercase names
09:43<sladen>Rubidium: (that aside, in this particular case, on this particular machine, on this particular day, I have a repeatable issue)
09:44<+glx>and why not put the files in the usual places? like ~/.openttd/data ?
09:44<sladen>bugs are things that occur when what is intended does not match what actually happens
09:45<sladen>glx: I unpacked them, cd'ed to that directory, ran openttd. To move them is extra hassle; and increases the general barrier to entry
09:46<+glx>but openttd still searches them in a data subdir
09:46<+glx>be it in ~/.openttd, cwd, install dir or /usr/local/games/openttd
09:47<sladen>so moving them (or rather a symlink) into ~/.openttd/data does make it start without complaint
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09:48<sladen>so the actual issue is openttd not finding lowercase datafiles when in the current directory
09:48<Antdovu>resizing windows: uint diff = delta.x / 2; <-- should really be a signed type
09:49<sladen>Antdovu: what if the window origin is off-screen
09:49<+glx>the actual issue is you not reading the readme file :)
09:49<Antdovu>so?
09:50<sladen>glx: well, I can't argue with that.
09:51<@Rubidium>sladen: the actual issue is more openttd finding the uppercase datafiles when in the current directory
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10:09<sladen>glx:
10:11<+glx>what?
10:11<sladen>Rubidium: oh? (ah, it doesn't find uppercase, so skips the check without complaining?)
10:15<sladen>nope, mixed case fails
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10:15<sladen>Rubidium: puzzled, did you intentionally write _uppercase_?
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10:19<@Rubidium>sladen: I do not see *any* reason why it would find them uppercased and it wouldn't find them lowercased. For each location where the uppercase could fail immediately the lowercase version is tried, unless you've got a non-official binary
10:20<@Rubidium>I can't even reproduce it locally
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10:21<@petern>mixed case?
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10:33<Ammler>how would you make a "or" statement with nfo?
10:35<Ammler>something like "if not (param1 or param2) then goto x"
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>not (a or b) == (not a) and (not b)
10:37<Ammler>and how to make a and?
10:38<Aali>Ammler: just chain up some action7's
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10:38<Ammler>yeah, that would need 3
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>if (a and b) == if (a) if (b)
10:38<Ammler>I am thinking, if it would work with 2?
10:39<Ammler>if would skip a unconditional jump
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>what?
10:39<Ammler>if not param1 skip 2
10:39<Ammler>if not param2 skip 1
10:40<Ammler>skip 1
10:40<Aali>if param1 skip 3
10:40<Aali>if param2 skip 2
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see your problem
10:41<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: is it possible with 2 action7?
10:41<Aali>if you want to leave out the unconditional jump, just invert the logic
10:42<Ammler>Aali: show me?
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10:42<Ammler>ah, you did
10:42<Aali>you would of course need to adjust the skip values
10:42<Ammler>no, you didn't
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>can't you do expression evaluation with advanced action 2?
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe you should use a higher level language that just gets compiled into NFO
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>err... wait...
10:45<Ammler>:P
10:45<Ammler>well, I do it with my 3, I was just wondering
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>well, the problem you face is probably very common for assembler problems
10:50<Ammler>he, now I know, why my escapes don't work
10:50<Ammler>no boost installed
10:50<Ammler>as I compiled nforenum
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>error: no operator "-=" matches these operands
10:54<Eddi|zuHause> operand types are: std::list<CargoPacket *,
10:54<Eddi|zuHause> std::allocator<CargoPacket *>>::_Iterator<true> -=
10:54<Eddi|zuHause> ptrdiff_t
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i should give up...
10:55<Antdovu>if all else fails, read the manual/docs/interface
10:55<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: you seem to subtract a ptrdiff from a list<> container
10:55<Aali>Eddi|zuHause: what exactly are you doing anyway?
10:56<@Rubidium>he's trying to move an iterator more than one position at a time
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>getting this compiler to compile openttd
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10:56<Aali>Eddi|zuHause: well its not ready for it :P
10:56<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: svn revert ; ./configure ; make :)
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: it's about the compiler, not about openttd
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>and apparently it's getting confused with the template instantiation
10:57<@Rubidium>and looking at the specs... the random access iterator which Eddi|zuHause assumes he is using isn't used for iterating lists
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't make any modifications to the source... that would be silly for such a test ;)
10:58<Alberth>Rubidium, Eddi|zuHauseoh right, I missed the ::Iterator<true> :(
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>well, if i change instantiation method from -tall to -tused, i get this error:
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>"autoreplace.cpp", line 14: error: identifier "_EngineRenew_pool" is undefined
11:00<Eddi|zuHause> DEFINE_OLD_POOL_GENERIC(EngineRenew, EngineRenew)
11:01<@Rubidium>then the compiler's not understanding that _EngineRenew_pool is used?
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11:12<Eddi|zuHause>when i manually expand the macro, it changes to this message:
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>"/home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTDx/trunk/src/autoreplace.cpp", line 14: error:
11:12<Eddi|zuHause> identifier "_EngineRenew_pool" is undefined
11:12<Eddi|zuHause> OldMemoryPool<EngineRenew> _EngineRenew_pool( "EngineRenew", EngineRenew_POOL_MAX_BLOCKS, EngineRenew_POOL_BLOCK_SIZE_BITS, sizeof(EngineRenew), PoolNewBlock<EngineRenew, &_EngineRenew_pool>, PoolCleanBlock<EngineRenew, &_EngineRenew_pool>); template EngineRenew *PoolItem<EngineRenew, EngineRenewID, &_EngineRenew_pool>::AllocateSafeRaw(uint &first);
11:12<Eddi|zuHause> ^
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>so it chokes on this reference to itself, or something...
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11:20<Antdovu>how can I make my window catch all keystrokes, not just some of them?
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11:23<Antdovu>it gets esc, enter, some letters but not 'l' (opens landscape toolbar instead)
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11:51<Eddi|zuHause>Antdovu: there are some global shortcuts, it'll be difficult to override those
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>except you have a text field
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11:55<Antdovu>I have "struct SaveLoadCompanyInfoWindow : public QueryStringBaseWindow"
11:57<Antdovu>I basically used the save/load window as a reference
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12:06<china>anyone good at autocad mechanical '08 here? i need help with changing the font size on the output of linear measurment lines.
12:15<Ammler>if I use the special control string 0E, it does make the text smaller after but the linehigh for the whole text
12:15<Ammler>is that, why nforenum warns about?
12:16<Ammler>nforenum complains also about colors...
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12:22<Swallow>@china I don't know anything about your specific version, but in AutoCAD 2007 the DIMSTYLE command is most likely what you're looking for
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12:44<yorick>oops, it moved the wrong way > http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot1nt6.png
12:46<ln>¿donde están Gonozal_VIII y meush?
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>no sé
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12:50<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: what exactly is this picture supposed to tell us?
12:50<yorick>my 'lively' river flooded the town
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12:51<Eddi|zuHause>well, obviously you should add rivers before towns :p
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>and it needs a higher chance for bending before it hits an obstacle ;)
12:53<yorick>it currently has no chance of bending at all :-p
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>exactly
12:53<Antdovu>hint: make sure not to overflow the buggers
12:53<yorick>unless it hits an obstacle, that is
12:53<yorick>the what?
12:53<Antdovu>buffers*
12:53<yorick>?
12:54<Antdovu>overflow is bad :P
12:54<yorick>how should I be able to overflow the buffers?
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>build a buffer. flow the river over it
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>easy. :p
12:55<Antdovu>just check for null pointer
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>next thing he'll tell us is to defrag the hdd
12:56<Antdovu>sometimes you can have leaks so rivers go underground
12:57<Antdovu>that way you can overflow the basements
12:57<Antdovu>any of you confused now?
12:57<yorick>and that's a too big chance
12:57<yorick>it looks more like a snake now
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13:00<yorick>random is rather predictable...
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13:02<Antdovu>you can always distill randomness...
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13:15<ln>bbl
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13:59<CIA-5>OpenTTD: translators * r14583 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:59<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-11-16 18:59:11
13:59<CIA-5>OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changed by Excel20 (4)
13:59<CIA-5>OpenTTD: english_US - 7 fixed by WhiteRabbit (7)
13:59<CIA-5>OpenTTD: french - 2 fixed, 2 changed by glx (4)
13:59<CIA-5>OpenTTD: persian - 21 fixed by ali sattari (21)
13:59<CIA-5>OpenTTD: portuguese - 49 fixed by joznaz (49)
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14:13<ln>hello
14:17<Antdovu>there is nobody here
14:17<Antdovu>openttd has been discontinued
14:17<planetmaker>openttd: /home/openttd/svn-public/src/oldpool.h:125: T* OldMemoryPool<T>::Get(uint) const [with T = Station]: Assertion `index < this->GetSize()' failed.
14:17<planetmaker>Server has exited <-- r14572. is it known?
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14:19<SmatZ>planetmaker: I saw that today at PS, but failed to reproduce :-x
14:19<planetmaker>yeah, thats from ps right now
14:19<De_Ghosty>bad ram?
14:21<SmatZ>the same assert twice in one day
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>solar dust ;)
14:21<@Rubidium>the savegame can already be compromised
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>background radiation ;)
14:21<SmatZ>true
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14:22<Aali>any specific reason why openttd doesn't get a backtrace on its own?
14:22<@Rubidium>because there isn't a cross-platform-compatible way to do that
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: do you want to compile a debugger into every binary?
14:23<@Rubidium>and releasing 30+MB binaries isn't quite what we want to do either
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14:24<Aali>i'll take that as a no
14:25<Aali>because those are some lame excuses
14:25<Aali>and they dont make any sense
14:25<Antdovu>yes they do
14:26<Aali>you dont have to generate a proper backtrace for every platform out there for it to be useful
14:26<Antdovu>so for which one do you want to generate it?
14:26<@Rubidium>Aali: so, what platforms should we do it for?
14:26<Aali>you dont have to resolve symbols, just printing the address is fine for official builds
14:26<SmatZ>....
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: MSVC releases do that already
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>they produce a crash.dmp file, which you can then load into the MSVC debugger
14:28<Aali>yeah, and thats great, what about other platforms?
14:28<@petern>19:26 < Aali> you dont have to generate a proper backtrace for every platform
14:28<Aali>something similar should be doable for linux, at the very least
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>and my wild guess is that these are 98% of all binaries out there
14:28<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: not that those dumps contain much usuable information
14:29<@Rubidium>Aali: please show me your implementation
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>i did not say that... but a random backtrace does not usually contain enough useful information either ;)
14:30<@petern>man backtrace
14:30<@petern>no entry :(
14:30<SmatZ>though... even printing 256 bytes on top of stack would help
14:31<Aali>^
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>or you could just run the server in gdb
14:32<Aali>if you reproduce it
14:33<Aali>unless you want to make a habit of always running it in gdb, but thats just wrong :/
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: so instead you want to compile gdb into the binary for all people?
14:33<Aali>*can reproduce it, even
14:34<Aali>Eddi|zuHause: printing the top of the stack is hardly compiling gdb into the binary
14:35<@Rubidium>telling people to upload their binary so we can debug it is useful?
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>no, but it's nothing compared to a human readable or even interactive representation of the program state either
14:35<Aali>why would they need to upload their binary?
14:35<@Rubidium>Aali: because the stacktrace depends heavily on the binary
14:36<Aali>if its not an official binary its not your problem
14:36<@Rubidium>and because the binary usually isn't a binary build by us
14:36<SmatZ>it could help for debugging releases (when people usually use the precompiled binary)
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: because 80% of all people who run linux and report bugs use custom binaries
14:36<SmatZ>and for nighlies too
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>and 87% of all statistics are made up on the fly :p
14:37<Aali>Eddi|zuHause: and what did you lose there? what happens to those people? are they going to be pissed because they got some extra bytes on their system?
14:38<SmatZ>:)
14:38<@Rubidium>Aali: the unix/osx people that report crashes have (as far as I can remember) always used custom build binaries
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: backtraces of those binaries are 100% useless unless you have the exact binary to match
14:38<Aali>its not going to hinder debugging with homebrewed binaries, and its sure to help people who do use the official binaries
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: it's about developers debugging other people's bugs
14:40<Aali>and that will suffer from this simple addition?
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>no, but it will not gain anything
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>which makes it an unreasonable effort
14:41<Aali>fine, whatever, its your loss
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>well, you were already told: if you provide an implementation, it might be considered
14:42<Aali>and you just tried to convince me it wasn't worth the effort :P
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but you don't have to believe me :p
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14:44<Aali>on another note, has anyone else noticed how mercurial queues tends to "lose" files randomly?
14:45<Aali>sometimes i have to revert files i haven't touched because they've been deleted or otherwise mutilated by mq :/
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15:02<Antdovu>Suppose I have a window and do something useful in OnTimeout(). Where would be a good place to delete the window?
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15:06<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r14584 /trunk/configure: -Fix: reconfigure when any *.in file is changed
15:10<+glx>be careful when you delete a window
15:13<Antdovu>I already discovered that it will crash in any of the places I tried :P
15:15<CIA-5>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14585 /trunk/os/win32/installer/install.nsi: -Fix (r14580): File mask for the script directory was wrong in the Win32 install script.
15:18<Antdovu>Is it safe to mark it useless, then mark it dirty and finally delete it in OnPaint()?
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15:21<SmatZ>I don't think it is a good idea
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15:23<Antdovu>neither do I
15:23<Antdovu>it seems to work but there is likely a better solution
15:24<Vikthor>I wonder, shouldn't be the wagon(or rather road vehicle) length callback called after refit too?
15:24<frosch123>isn't it called when leaving the depot?
15:24<frosch123>SmatZ should know :)
15:29<frosch123>hmm, it seems like the depot-thingie only applies to trains
15:29<Vikthor>doesn't seem to work for me and it doesn't seem so form the code, but then again maybe I am doing something wrong in the grf
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15:29<Vikthor>frosch123: If it so maybe I can suggest this http://paste.openttd.org/176741 ?
15:30<SmatZ>Vikthor: for trains, it is called
15:30<SmatZ>for road vehicles, it isn't
15:30<frosch123>RoadVehUpdateCache() would be more appropiate (I guess)
15:30<Vikthor>yeah, that was my second guess
15:31<SmatZ>yeah
15:32<Vikthor>and another question, when you allowed refitting to zero capacity, would it be possible to allow refiting from zero capacity?
15:32<frosch123>err, it is not allowed?
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15:33<Vikthor>http://paste.openttd.org/176534
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15:34<frosch123>hmm, I doubt that is correct
15:35<frosch123>but, seems like that was the reason zero was not allowed :)
15:37<Vikthor>maybe it it's correct, but my grf worked with that patch, though I know that's not enough for trunk inclusion
15:37<Antdovu>OK, so nobody actually knows where I should delete the window? :(
15:37<frosch123>I fear there are some interactions between "cargo_cap == 0" and "cargo_type == INVALID_CARGO" :(
15:40<Swallow>@Antdovu do you use DeleteWindowById(...) or something similar?
15:42<Vikthor>hmm, anyway by allowing refiting to 0 and not from 0, we at least behave as TTDPatch 2.6 r 2071
15:42<frosch123>Antdovu: I did not understand your initial problem, but maybe you want to call OnTimeout in the destructor
15:44<Vikthor>Seems like people will have to take care to which cargo they refit, because for some of them they will not be able to refit back :p
15:45<Antdovu>OnTimeout is called by something out of my control
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15:46<Antdovu>it gets called when the Save button or enter key is pressed
15:46<Antdovu>like when you try to save the game
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15:47<@Rubidium>Antdovu: we can keep guessing for possible solutions and even what you are trying to do, but that doesn't help you solving your issue
15:47<Antdovu>what would?
15:48<@Rubidium>for example showing a diff of what you've done so far
15:52<Antdovu>http://paste.openttd.org/176742
15:53<Antdovu>the interesting place in code: "// ALL DONE, now need to get rid of the window"
15:54<+glx>Antdovu: why include vector and string everywhere?
15:55<@Rubidium>Antdovu: move the ontimeout code to the onclick and most likely it works
15:56<SmatZ>Antdovu: why references when pointers are much better readable?
15:57<frosch123>[21:58] <SmatZ> Antdovu: why references when pointers are much better readable? <- with that attitude you will not get the job of my first job interview either :)
15:57<@Rubidium>ontimeout isn't meant for handling user input, but rather to force updates of the window (resorting lists etc)
15:59<SmatZ>frosch123: you failed because of this opinion? the job wasn't at your level then ;-)
15:59<SmatZ>like, level(frosch123) > level(job)
16:00<frosch123>well, the question was quite confusing in the end, as he was heading for const reference vs. stack copy ...
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16:06<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:06<Antdovu>Rubidium: that worked :)
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16:08<Antdovu>now I just need to figure out why the main window catches my OnKeyPress()
16:11<+glx>Antdovu: probably HandleKeypress doesn't know your window has an input box
16:14<Antdovu>how can I let it know that it does?
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16:15<Eddi|zuHause>look at other windows that have an edit box?
16:15<+glx>just look at HandleKeypress() source
16:15<+glx>in window.cpp
16:15<+glx>it's very easy to see what is needed
16:23<Wolf01>'night
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16:28<ln>night, Wolf01
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16:37<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14586 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Fix (r14580): missing mkdir causing make install to fail when there's no scripts directory already.
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16:57<ln>http://arxiv.org/abs/0810.5056
16:59<Antdovu>randomly generated description?
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17:09<Ammler>is that known, if you load a game with enabled magic bulldozer on a server, you can use it?
17:14<mrfrenzy>I read in the forum if you leave the magic bulldozer on the cities will use it to destroy whatever is in the way when building roads - including industries and stations
17:14<frosch123>maybe that is no longer true
17:15*SmatZ agrees
17:15<SmatZ>but maybe it is a bug :-P
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: if you used the money cheat on a savegame, and then load it in MP, you don't lose the money either
17:16<@Rubidium>the town destroying industries with magic bulldozer? That's a feature!
17:16<Ammler>:-)
17:16<Ammler>indeed, nice feature :-)
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see a reason why the cheat should magically turn itself of...
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>except if you can prove it's not MP safe
17:17<frosch123>well, the old feature of removing industries using the terraform tool was removed
17:17<Ammler>the other cheats aren't MP safe?
17:17<frosch123>I don't know whether that also removed the town removing industries feature
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i don't think they have been properly checked for that :p
17:18<Ammler>Always thought, there is an other reason, to not allow those on MP.
17:18<Ammler>:-)
17:18<@Rubidium>changing player isn't safe
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>you got your causality reversed
17:19<@Rubidium>neither is changing climate
17:19<Ammler>Rubidium: dih proved it other
17:19<Ammler>we have a move patch
17:19<@Rubidium>Ammler: if you change player and do a command you'll get kicked
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>not the cheats are not allowed in MP because they are not safe, they are not safe because they weren't made safe because they're not useable in MP anyway
17:20<@Rubidium>i.e. it isn't MP safe
17:20<Ammler>Rubidium: with the cheat.
17:20<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: lol
17:20<@Rubidium>well, yes... we're talking about cheats, right?
17:20<Ammler>I am wondering, the map is still there :-)
17:23<Aali>Ammler: i'm looking at the wwottdgd patches right now, what was the mysterious server problem with the 55 clients patch?
17:24-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Enohp eht no S'enilorac, Regor... Tnoflahc, mraf ynnuf eht fo erac, 'Knip Dlo' ot rewsna ruoy dnes esaelp. Egassem terces eht derevocsid tsuj evah uoy, sn]
17:24<@Rubidium>Aali: buffer overruns/overflows
17:24<Ammler>Aali: that problem is fixed on current trunk
17:24<Aali>right
17:24<Aali>because i couldn't find it :)
17:24<Aali>but that explains it
17:25<Ammler>hehe, nice, planetmaker will be happy about help for wwottdgd/3 ;-)
17:26<planetmaker>:)
17:26<planetmaker>Aali: http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/wwottdgd/
17:26<planetmaker>and also here a good night to all :)
17:27-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
17:28<Aali>i was just looking for the one-tile terraform patch originally, but some of the other stuff you've done caught my eye :)
17:29<planetmaker>mind that most wasn't done by me. I just collected them
17:30<Aali>you as in all of you :P
17:30<Aali>hmm, i get a 403 on gui+move+mute.diff
17:33-!-elmex [~elmex@e180066207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:34<Aali>(i can still get the other file of course, but should that be there?)
17:36-!-KillaloT [~killalot@0x5738c869.rdnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:37<planetmaker>should be changed
17:37<planetmaker>so, now really off. bye :)
17:37<china>http://fac.dndr.se/poo/Bilder/?page=konstruktion
17:43<Antdovu>is IniFile::RemoveGroup() supposed to delete group "AA" if it gets "A" as the group it is supposed to delete?
17:45<Antdovu>that is: should IniFile::RemoveGroup("A") delete an existing group named "AA" if there is no group named "A"?
17:49<Antdovu>because that is exactly what it currently does
17:50<Antdovu>it removes the first group with the given prefix, not caring whether they are actually equal
17:51-!-Nuke2 [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/]
17:51<SmatZ>hmm interesting
17:52<SmatZ>I would say it may cause buffer overflow
17:53<Antdovu>I would say that it probably breaks newgrf presets
17:53<SmatZ>good idea
17:55<Antdovu>yep, it does
17:55<Aali>i would say that it should check strlen(A) == strlen(B) before comparing anything
17:56-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff47f.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:56<Antdovu>amazing idea: use strcmp(s1, s2) to compare 2 strings
17:58<Aali>i haven't looked at the code, but yes, that might work
17:58<Antdovu>took me ages to find out why my delete button kept deleting the wrong files :(
17:58<Aali>what is it doing now?
17:59<Antdovu>well, you have a group "AA" and try to delete "A" then it deletes "AA" unless you also have "AA"
17:59<Aali>yes, but why?
17:59<Antdovu>prefix matching
17:59<Antdovu>if (memcmp(group->name, name, len) == 0)
17:59<Aali>nice
18:00<Aali>clever use of memcmp, there
18:01<Aali>i assume len is assigned from strlen somewhere?
18:01<Antdovu>yes
18:01<Antdovu>len = strlen(name)
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18:02<Aali>awesome
18:02<Aali>so its just like a strcmp, except with 50% more bugs
18:02-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
18:02<Aali>:P
18:02<Antdovu>AND it is effective
18:03<Antdovu>made me waste over an hour debugging my code
18:04-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd []
18:04<@Rubidium>it's not even that obscure for a bug
18:04-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
18:05<@Rubidium>it only wonders me that it's found now; it's there for eons (r1-ish)
18:07<Patrick>yikes
18:07<Patrick>it might be from the Old Code then
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18:14<dihedral>Rubidium, real r1 or r1 from this repo? :P
18:15<@Rubidium>more pre any r1 (0.2.0)
18:18<Antdovu>how often do ancient bugs like that crawl out in openttd?
18:18<@Rubidium>less often over time
18:20<dihedral>lol
18:20<dihedral>anyway
18:20<dihedral>good night
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>finding of such bugs increases with new features that overcome old limitations, and decrease with old code being rewritten
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>the higher the standards of the new code, the more likely the decreasing part will dominate
18:25<Antdovu>this shows that the newgrf presets patch either wasn't tested that much or the weird behaviour wasn't noticed
18:26<Antdovu>(I am working on something that uses the same method of storage)
18:54<welshdragon>openttd is driving me mad. i've been having connection lost all night on brianetta's server
18:56<@Rubidium>that isn't OpenTTD's fault
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>it's my fault
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>i've been overoccupying the internet :p
18:58<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause, that'll do me
18:58<@Rubidium>okay, OpenTTD requires that your client replies to some requests of the server within 8 seconds
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18:58-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BFE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:59<@Rubidium>and if your OS can't maintain a connections that replies within 8 seconds there's something wrong with either your OS or the ISP(s) or your local network
18:59<welshdragon>Rubidium, probably the isop's
18:59<welshdragon>(well, isp here in Hull)
19:00<Antdovu>8 seconds ought to be enough for smoke signals...
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19:03<Antdovu>welshdragon: does your ISP use IP over Avian Carriers by any chance?
19:04<Gekz>lol
19:04<welshdragon>ask Sacro
19:05<@Rubidium>Antdovu: only RFC2549 ;)
19:05<Aali>some routers make a habit of reseting random connections when overloaded
19:05<Aali>mine included :/
19:11<Nite_Owl>Dinner is served - later all
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19:16<Aali>hmm
19:17<Aali>network_gui.cpp, on several lines "if (client_no < MAX_COMPANIES)"
19:17<Aali>shouldn't that be MAX_CLIENTS or somesuch?
19:19<Antdovu>wouldn't it be more useful to find a case where that causes something unexpected?
19:19<Aali>i haven't had time to test it
19:20<Aali>try to kick client 10 or something and see for yourself
19:20<Aali>(it could still be wrong, even if it doesn't cause trouble)
19:22<Antdovu>so you are saying that I can't kick client 10?
19:23<Aali>once again, i haven't tested it
19:23<Aali>and its gui code, so it shouldn't affect your ability to kick people from the console
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19:38<DaleStan>Ammler: What string is NFORenum not liking? And in what context did you want to use it? Control code checking is one of the weakest and most fragile parts of NFORenum.
19:39-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.182.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:39<Ammler>DaleStan: I liked to use small font in the description
19:39<Ammler>0E, iirc
19:39<DaleStan>The description for ...
19:39<Ammler>Action8
19:40<DaleStan>Ah. I would say that that should work.
19:40<Ammler>but ottd doesn't like it either
19:40<DaleStan>Can you test in Patch?
19:40<Ammler>yes, I could.
19:41-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:42<Ammler>DaleStan: http://paste.openttd.org/176745
19:42<CIA-5>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14587 /trunk/src/ (oldloader.cpp saveload.h): -Cleanup: Fix some old comments. Bits are not bytes.
19:45<Ammler>DaleStan: same problem
19:46<Ammler:#openttd>only the text after 0E is small, but the all linehights are small
19:46<Ammler:#openttd>so it looks quite ugly
19:47<Ammler:#openttd>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/screens/smallfont.png
19:48<Ammler:#openttd>in ottd only the description text is overlapping
19:48<Ammler:#openttd>in patch the whole, it seems.
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19:49<DaleStan:#openttd>Given that, I suspect Patch draws the whole thing with a single text ("\80\n\80" with the two GRF strings on the stack) while Open uses two separate texts.
19:50<Ammler:#openttd>it doesn't matter, it is not useable for both apps in this case.
19:52<Ammler:#openttd>oh, patch is version 1860, quite old :-)
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20:01<Ammler:#openttd>my workaround was to use 2 linefeeds (0D)
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20:44<Sacro:#openttd>http://www.mutopiaproject.org/cgibin/make-table.cgi?collection=joplin&preview=1 <- free openttd musics?
20:58<ln:#openttd>Sacro: I don't know how did you happen to find such a collection, but it's great!
20:58<Sacro:#openttd>ln: reddit
20:58<Sacro:#openttd>also <3 classical music
20:58*Sacro:#openttd is now playing: Griegg - Cencerto For Piano And Orchestra In A Minor OP 16
20:59<ln:#openttd>It's even quite much TTD-style music.
20:59<Sacro:#openttd>Yeah
20:59<Sacro:#openttd>wel
20:59<Sacro:#openttd>some of those tracks are in LoMo
21:00<ln:#openttd>oh
21:00<Sacro:#openttd>we can either a) use the midi files
21:01<Sacro:#openttd>or b) timidity and freepats them into ogg files
21:01<Sacro:#openttd>oh?
21:01<ln:#openttd>oh for the LoMo comment
21:01<Sacro:#openttd>yeah, iirc LoMo has some joplin
21:03<ln:#openttd>that's like the best freely distributable TTD-style music we're ever going to find, and it's in midi format.
21:03<Sacro:#openttd>I personally would use freepats and have it in ogg
21:03<Sacro:#openttd>want me to reboot into Linux and sample em?
21:03<Sacro:#openttd>see how good I can get them?
21:04<Sacro:#openttd>and perhaps get them into some kind of plan for 0.7.0
21:04<ln:#openttd>i'm currently playing those with timidity, but dunno what patterns it is using.
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21:04<Sacro:#openttd>well in theory the music isn't copyrightable
21:05<Sacro:#openttd>but the perfomance is
21:05<Sacro:#openttd>so if i was to do them now inn windows, creative mihgt have something to say
21:05<Sacro:#openttd>with me using their soundfonts
21:05<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>surely composing sheet music is copyrightable
21:05<Sacro:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: yes, but all that stuff is well out of date
21:05-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-214-110.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:06<Sacro:#openttd>joplin died in 1917
21:06<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that'll suffice in most countries, yes ;)
21:07<ln:#openttd>was it already 95 years in the US and A, or just going to be?
21:07<Sacro:#openttd>still 50 i htink
21:07<Sacro:#openttd>or perhaps 75
21:07<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that'll only affect new recordings anyway
21:08<Sacro:#openttd>yeah
21:08<Sacro:#openttd>well no
21:08<Sacro:#openttd>they wanted to increase it to cover old walt disney stuff
21:08<Sacro:#openttd>he died in 1966
21:08<Sacro:#openttd>so if it is 50 years it'd be PD by now
21:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that'll be legally highly questionable
21:09<ln:#openttd>aren't the *recordings* copyrights a little different than the other kind?
21:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, recordings are 50 years from the time of recording
21:09<Sacro:#openttd>"The claim that "pre-1923 works are in the public domain" is correct only for published works; unpublished works are under federal copyright for at least the life of the author plus 70 years."
21:10<Sacro:#openttd>ln: yes, we couldn't just use a pre-exisitng mp3 of his performance without permission
21:10<Sacro:#openttd>but we could however use his music to make our own
21:10<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Sacro: yes, because the laws at the date of publishing are under effect
21:10<Sacro:#openttd>ie using their midi file and freepats
21:10<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>later laws cannot affect this publishment anymore
21:11<ln:#openttd>why not, when the time was increased from 50 to 70 over here, also the stuff already in kind-of-PD became copyrighted again
21:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>once something gets into PD, it cannot get un-PD'ed anymore, it's the rule of the shorter term
21:13<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>like you cannot revoke a license unless the license itself states that it can be revoked
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21:17<ln:#openttd>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ScottJoplin.jpeg
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21:26<Sacro:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: thoughts?
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21:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>what thoughts?
21:27<Sacro:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: on the music
21:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i have not listened to the music
21:28<Sacro:#openttd>:(
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21:33<ln:#openttd>here's one of them converted with timidity (unknown patterns): http://www.nbl.fi/~nbl3392/bethena.ogg
21:36<Sacro:#openttd>ln: not bad :)
21:36<Sacro:#openttd>bit honky-tonk though :\
21:36<welshdragon:#openttd>hmm,l interesting
21:37<ln:#openttd>yeah it sounds synthesized at some points.
21:37<welshdragon:#openttd>is timidity a music composer?
21:38<Sacro:#openttd>welshdragon: no
21:38<Sacro:#openttd>synth
21:38<welshdragon:#openttd>aah
21:39<welshdragon:#openttd>-
21:41<ln:#openttd>software synthesizer
21:44<ln:#openttd>i remember seeing a web page about a DVD full of instrument sounds (for the purpose of synthsizing midi), price tag about 5000 €.
21:44<ln:#openttd>could have been more than one DVD.
21:50-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>there are even more expensive ones
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 17 00:00:59 2008