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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-11-22

---Logopened Sat Nov 22 00:00:14 2008
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01:56<Cookiej>Hey i'm setting up dedicated and uhm working on MoTD for it how do i create script :P? where do i start
01:57<Cookiej>Tryed with Wordpad ofc didn't work gave errors importing so i ghues i'm messing up some cmds hope you can help me a bit maybe provide the first few lines to start?
01:59<Cookiej>think it's a bit 2 early :P
01:59<AgentLeMan>cookie, read here from 08:54 on
02:02<AgentLeMan>a pleasure :o)
02:09<Cookiej>forwarded me to
02:10<AgentLeMan>hm, yes, that may be easier to read too
02:14<Cookiej>not realy :P though i should look for an auto Pilot
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02:50*Cookiej slaps Cookiej around a bit with a large trout
02:50*AgentLeMan slaps trout around a bit with a very large Cookiej
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03:42<Fantasya>g' day
03:42<Fantasya>what command for relogin to channel?
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03:55<davis_>09:42… Fantasya: what command for relogin to channel?
03:55<davis_>/hop ?
03:56<@petern>/part then /join ? heh
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03:58<davis_>the same , with one command
03:59<@petern>or /cycle
03:59<@petern>those are client commands that do the same as /part then /join, heh
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04:02<@petern>Rubidium, do we still offer torrent downloads?
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04:03<davis_>didnt know /cycle
04:04<mrfrenzy>what do you accomplish by rejoining the channel?
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04:05<@petern>not much
04:05<davis_>checking topic mostly , or ganining back autoflags
04:06<mrfrenzy>try /topic
04:07<mrfrenzy>and for gaining your flags talk to chanserv
04:07<yorick>he doesn't have flags
04:09<yorick> <-- fixes transfer share on with oilrigs :)
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04:22<yorick>petern: what's ouch?
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04:25<@petern>all that extra space for just one corner case
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04:26<@petern>do you really need a feeder share for each company?
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04:27<yorick>petern, it's part of the IS patch, too
04:27<@petern>wouldn't just adding a company field work?
04:27<yorick>not really, no
04:27<@petern>not that i've thought it through :p
04:28<yorick>it wouldn't be fair if the company delivering the cargo would get all the feeder share, would it?
04:29<yorick>and if the IS patch hits trunk, it isn't so much of a corner case
04:29<@petern>so nearly quadrupling the size of a cargopacket doesn't seem a problem to you?
04:30<yorick>your alternative?
04:30<yorick>some feeder_share pool?
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04:36<George>In TTDP it is not allowed to build bank over historical (protected) building. In OTTD bank can be build over any town building. Is it untended?
04:37<yorick>does openttd even know protected buildings?
04:37<George>IMHO yes
04:37<yorick>then it's untended
04:37<@petern>it does, so i guess that bit of them got forgotten
04:38<@petern>untended :o
04:38<George>Should I create a bugreport?
04:39<Doorslammer>We should really rename that to "untended buggerport"
04:42<Gekz>dont mock the non-english speakers
04:42<Gekz>or I get to correct everything TrueBrain says
04:42<Gekz>and that's lots.
04:43<George>Strange, I can't reproduce it. Now get error that town refuses to do it. I have to do more tests :(
04:44<yorick>George, I looked at the code recently, AFAIK it is allowed
04:45<yorick>but maybe it can't clear the square the house is on
04:45<George>Well, should I create a bug report even if I can't reproduce it myself?
04:46<yorick>no :p
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04:47<yorick>petern, if you can come up with a solution to the feeder shares, please make it so that it's IS-compatible :)
04:48<George>Well, I'll report it as feature request, not a bug
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04:49<Fantasya><davis_> /hop ?
04:49<yorick>it everyone going to try out /cycle or /hop now?
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04:54<Fantasya>brigada :D
04:58<Fantasya>chernyj bumer
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05:14<yorick>how do I get the front engine of a train?
05:16<yorick>thanks :)
05:16<@Rubidium>petern: I don't think the torrents survived the move and torrents aren't that useful anymore either
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07:47<appe>i really, really need to work out today
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08:09<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14603 /trunk/src/cheat_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2422]: the company ID is off-by-one w.r.t. to the rest of the GUI in the cheat window.
08:11<Gekz>proves how many people cheat
08:11<Gekz>and tha'ts not many
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08:29<Patrick>lemme guess, that's a year-zero bug
08:33<Fantasya>how to enthuse idiot?
08:34<yorick>chuck norris?
08:34<Fantasya>no no
08:35<Fantasya>just trooper idiot
08:35<yorick> :)
08:35<Fantasya>I know all facts :)
08:35<yorick>If you have five dollars and Chuck Norris has five dollars, Chuck Norris has more money than you.
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08:42<frosch123>hello glx, would you mind adding "chuck" and "norris" to your script?
08:42<@Rubidium>frosch123: just /ignore the idiots; works perfectly fine
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08:43<+glx>it's not like a command
08:46<yorick>The First rule of Chuck Norris is: you do not talk about Chuck Norris.
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08:48<George>Rubidium: FS 2420. Savegame uploaded. even the one after before crash
09:08<dihedral>George, "the one after before crash" <- that is really muddled :-P
09:09<George>I've only built a bank and saved a game
09:11<George>after means after I built a bank. Before crash means before crash. How should I say it?
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10:13<MarwolTuk>hello all
10:15*MarwolTuk wounders about how hard it woud be to write a patch for openttd
10:15<Jango>not very
10:15<Alberth>If you know C++
10:16<Jango>and can follow instructions on the wiki
10:17<MarwolTuk>c++ shodn't be a real problem... so i'll have a look to the wiki
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10:18<yorick>is there any widget type with an image, but without button?
10:19<Vikthor>out of my head - does president picture have a special widget type?
10:19<Hirundo>Do you want a button look, a button behaviour or neither of them?
10:20<yorick>I don' t want the look or the the behaviour
10:20<yorick>I just want an image
10:21<yorick>Vikthor, the company manager face uses DrawSprite
10:21<+glx>yorick: images are panel where you draw an image by hand
10:21<MarwolTuk>bevore i start codeing - is there already a posibility to show cachement-areas of already build (pasanger) stations? i think this feature would be cool if you try to set up a local transportation system inside a city...
10:22<@Rubidium>people have attempted making such a feature
10:22<Alberth>yorick: draw the image yourself in OnPaint() method
10:22<frosch123>I have a small patch around that does that.
10:22<yorick>ok :)
10:22<frosch123>I needed it to debug a silly ottdcoop savegame, as I was totally lost, where they had stationwalked to.
10:23<frosch123>And I believe they were too :p
10:25<frosch123>MarwolTuk: most likely it does not apply anymore
10:26<frosch123>and of course it does not have a proper gui, as it was only for debugging :)
10:26<MarwolTuk>ok, i'll look at it, and maybee i'll fix that bouth points ;-)
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10:37<Alberth>has anybody else experimented with 'make -j2' to speed up compilation? Results are quite nice, 1m20s build-time instead of 2m22
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10:39<yorick>what does -j2 do?
10:39*frosch123 is on single core
10:39<Alberth>it runs 2 compilation jobs
10:39<yorick>oh, nice :)
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10:40<Alberth>or rather, n compilation jobs in parallel with -jn
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>if you have n cores, the typical suggestion is to run 2n-1 jobs
10:40<@petern>i use -j8
10:41<yorick>eddi, so frosch should use 0?
10:41<yorick>hm, no
10:41*yorick didn't think
10:41<@Rubidium>assuming you follow that suggestion... you've got a quad core CPU and a Celeron?
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>2*1-1=0? good, i have to remember that
10:41<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: for a dual-core CPU, you'd then still have 1 compile job
10:41<@petern>2*(1-1) ;)
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>and beat up my math teacher from elementary school :p
10:42<yorick>Alberth, yes, because 2*2-1 = 1
10:43<Alberth>argh, I should trust my brain with these simple computations :P
10:43<yorick>I made the same mistake with 1
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>neither with these simple typing and sentence forming jobs ;)
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should just do away completely with this rubbish brain of yours
10:45<Alberth>why? I am having much fun with it
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10:48<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14604 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp station_func.h): -Codechange: Simplify a function and rename it, and fix some comments.
10:54<Ammler>will the new compile farm ever become OS?
10:54<Ammler>or is it already? And i just didn't find the source?
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10:57<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14605 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp: -Fix (r9315): When callback 1E fails, use the standard random colour.
10:58<Ammler>frosch123: as you working on special strings, are you aware of that?
10:59<Ammler>oh no, sorry :-)
10:59<frosch123>I am working on special strings?
10:59<Ammler>yeah, forget it.
11:00<frosch123>and that is a ttdp screenshot
11:00<Ammler>doesn't matter
11:00<Ammler>the problem is on both.
11:01<Ammler>that is why I didn't bugreport it.
11:04<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14606 /trunk/src/ (6 files):
11:04<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Unify usage of PALETTE_MODIFIER_TRANSPARENT and PALETTE_MODIFIER_COLOR in spritelayout drawing.
11:04<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2419]: The modifiers were not applied in all cases.
11:05<yorick>frosch is on a commit spree :)
11:10<frosch123>George: I need "ECS(George)\ECSHousew.grf"
11:12<George>frosch123: ?
11:13<frosch123>why does google not know that site?
11:13<George>Ask google :)
11:14<yorick>page not found?
11:15<George>It's a hosting by Owen Rudge
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11:15<fjb>Never trust google...
11:16<George>Works fine here
11:16<yorick>I forgot the (George)/
11:17<George>so, does it work?
11:17<George>and what happens when you run "after" save?
11:19<gynter>where did the spoon go?
11:20<gynter>sorry, wrong window.
11:20<gynter>hmm, there should be Refresh all button...
11:20<gynter>why Find Server leaves some servers as IP only?
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11:22<gynter>bah, that 64x64 server is offline :(
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11:26<yorick>gyner, because it can't reach them
11:26<yorick>gynter, refresh all = press find server again
11:27<gynter>hmm, but if I press Find Server it still doesn't find those servers with shown as IP, but if I refresh each of them separately it finds
11:32<gynter>how much resources do I need to run a dedicated server (0.6.3) with 64x64 map on *nix?
11:33<yorick>not much
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11:36<frosch123>George: when you use the "land area information" tool, you can see the "coordinates" of every tile. where does the bank has to be build?
11:40<frosch123>let me guess, that is a "protected" building?
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11:42<George>I do not know, It is from NA city set
11:43<frosch123>as it works with "magic bulldozer" enabled :)
11:43<George>Sorry, what did I do wrong?
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11:44<frosch123>nothing, but I was confused as I clicked exactly that tile before. But I cleared the sight a bit before :)
11:45<George>I use transparency mode (Ctrl-x) on
11:46<frosch123>but then I cannot see which houses are multitile houses in most cases
11:47<George>May it cause this bug?
11:48<frosch123>well, currently it seems that clearing the tile is allowed, when the industry tests whether it can clear all tiles. but clearing is forbidden, when the industry is finally build
11:49<frosch123>I guess current_player is different
11:51<Wolf01>[17:46:18] <frosch123> but then I cannot see which houses are multitile houses in most cases <- I have a suggestion for that problem: make the building milky when you are trying to destroy one tile which belong to it, like making it transparent but white
11:52<frosch123>oh, _current_company of course
11:52*frosch123 feels like belugas
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11:59<frosch123>ok, the problem is, when the first tile is cleared by the bank, the town rating drops so that clearing the second tile is not allowed anymore
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12:22<George>:) :)
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12:34<frosch123>George: FS#2421: the callback fails
12:36<frosch123>in that case I have to look in the grf
12:37<George>You have it (ECSHousew.grf)
12:39<frosch123>maybe there are more than two of those hotels, or the hotel is older than 32 years?
12:42<George>its 32 in HEX, so 50 years. Started in 1950-th, and it's 1955-th in game. So they should be at most 5 years old
12:45<frosch123>ah, alright, the house is 255 years old (clamped) and there are 671354882 houses of the same id
12:45<George>SHOCK! But why?
12:46<frosch123>well, obviously those numbers are wrong, esp. the second :)
12:46<frosch123>I just wonder, whether it is just my debugging output that is that wrong :x
12:47<George>Hope you can fix it B)
12:47<frosch123>oh, wait, there is more stuff stored in that variable
12:48<George>but I test it with 81, so the other 3 bytes should be cut
12:49<frosch123>so two houses
12:49<George>Correct :)
12:49<George>But 255 years not
12:51<frosch123>err, is the house completed?
12:51<George>What do you mean?
12:52<frosch123>is it in its final construction stage?
12:52<frosch123>or is it just build
12:53<frosch123>yes, it is
12:54<George>At least land area information tool says thet they are not under construction.
12:54<Qball>can I make openttd auto-signal a whole line
12:54<Qball>(including corners and stuff
12:54<George>frosch123: and? Shouldn't it be 0, not 255?
12:54<frosch123>Qball: build one signal (usually a one way signal), press ctrl and drag the signal in the wanted direction
12:55<Qball>I knew I hit it by accident a few times
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13:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: translators * r14607 /trunk/src/lang/ (afrikaans.txt finnish.txt hungarian.txt norwegian_bokmal.txt):
13:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-11-22 18:44:20
13:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 28 changed by burgerd (28)
13:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: finnish - 65 fixed, 17 changed by UltimateSephiroth (82)
13:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: hungarian - 86 changed by oklmernok (86)
13:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 4 fixed by brygge_2 (4)
13:48<frosch123>George: FS#2421: Your savegame is totally screwed. I cannot reproduce it in a new game, can you? Else I am going to blame that you replaced the newgrf with a newer on in game.
13:50<frosch123>i.e. the house cannot resolve a valid housespec
13:52<George>frosch123: What does it mean Screwed? Reproduce? It is hard to control house change, because it is totally random. The fact that I caught it is a luck. Replace the GRF? IMHO, the checksum is saved in the save, isn't it? So you could see the change. And what about age = 255?
13:52<George>What does it mean "the house cannot resolve a valid housespec"?
13:53<George>BTW, I'd would like to ask one more question. Do uypu plan to disallow houses to be moved during construction? I mean when I do landscape test for northern tile I want to be sure to get northern tile there when the house is built.
13:55<frosch123>for your last question: that is part of grf version 8, but IIRC in fact it is already the case for ottd
13:57<George>Are you sure for OTTD?
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14:01<frosch123>well, the code looks like it. so you can test it. but it would not conform to newgrf specs version 7
14:02<George>I understand. Starting testing
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14:49<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14608 /trunk/src/town_map.h: -Fix (r9315): Return the current year as construction year for unfinished houses.
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15:22<Sacro>shouldn't power stations state power generation in the industries list?
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15:30<frosch123>George: Ok, I found the problem, why the age is 255
15:30<frosch123>No idea how to fix it though :(
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15:32<George>frosch123: could you explain it in general?
15:32<frosch123>you know that TTDP sets the minimum availability year to 1920 if there are no houses before 1930?
15:33<frosch123>that is to make sure, that there are houses available when the landscape is created
15:33<George>Read it somewhere. And?
15:34<frosch123>as ottd supports dates before 1920, it sets the minimum year of the earliest available houses to year 0
15:34<frosch123>so your house is available from year 0 onwards
15:34<frosch123>until 1960 or so
15:35<George>And how should affect the house that is on the map?
15:35<frosch123>however, the builddate is stored using 8 bits in the map array. so build dates after the year 255 cannot be represented
15:35<frosch123>so effectivly all houses of that type (and a lot others) were built in the year 255
15:35<frosch123>so in 1950 it is far older than 255 years :)
15:37<George>You mean that map generation happens in year 0?
15:37<frosch123>well, you can interpret it like that
15:37<frosch123>but no
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>the joy of extending ranges of certain variables :p
15:38<frosch123>it analyses the availability years of all houses, so if there are 5 houses available from 1930 and 7 available from 1931, it will set the availability years of the earliest 5 houses to year 0
15:39<frosch123>so basically if a house belongs to the earliest available houses, its age variable does not work
15:42<George>Confused :( Does it mean that if I provide 5 houses for the pre 1930 period, other houses would work correctly?
15:42<frosch123>when those do not use the age variable, then yes
15:43<frosch123>you can also set the date of your hotel to 1931 :)
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15:45<George>But what would happen to the other hoses, which are introduced in 1930? Also, it would not allow map generator to build the hotel in 1930. That's not good.
15:46<frosch123>when you start the game in 1930 then no, but when you start in 1931 then yes
15:49<George>and if I start in 1920?
15:49<frosch123>then no hotels
15:50<frosch123>you can add some houses to start from 1850. then you could allow the hotel to start in 1851
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16:48<@Rubidium>DaleStan: does it make sense when a NewGRF contains "unused" data in real sprites; unused meaning that a sprite in the NewGRF is e.g. 584 bytes long (576 without header) with compression 1 when the sprite itself is according the metadata 36 (xsize) by 12 (ysize), thus only 432 bytes (without header)? Happens in at least NARS 2.0b6w.
16:49<@Rubidium>or should we just ignore the 144 wasted bytes instead of triggering a "handle corrupt sprite" routine?
17:04<appe>how many twists and turns can a train actually handle
17:04<valhalla1w>infinite. it just slows down
17:04-!-valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
17:05<appe>im getting trains here who gets "lost" just because they wait at over thirty places per line
17:05<appe>i guess im doin something awfully wrong.
17:05<appe>yes, lights.
17:05<valhallasw>so why are they red?
17:06<appe>other trains pass by.
17:06<valhallasw>could you post a savegame?
17:07<appe>not atm
17:07<appe>ill hand it to you later.
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17:07*benjamingoodger has idea for his next book
17:07<@Rubidium>appe: with YAPF trains that cannot ever reach their destination without reversing will get "lost". With the old pathfinder trains get lost if they can't reach their destination within a given amount of time
17:08<benjamingoodger>Adventures in Google Reader --- How To Set It To The Wrong Language, Such That You Cannot Change It Back Again
17:08<appe>ah, ok.
17:09<valhallasw>benjamingoodger: click settings (first link right of email address), first selector?
17:10<benjamingoodger>yeah, I found that eventually
17:10<benjamingoodger>just by clicking everything in turn... ¬.¬
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17:13<Fantasya>youtube live after 2 hours and 46 mins!!!!!
17:13<Fantasya>omg waiting waiting. want to sleep ://
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17:28<Wolf01>does eGRVTS supports both ECS and Pikka's sets?
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17:30<valhallasw>appe: savegame ready yet? :P
17:33<appe>no, but i can take a screenshot. .D
17:33<DaleStan>Rubidium: I don't know. Have you asked patchman about that?
17:34<appe>"Screenshot failed!"
17:35<@Rubidium>DaleStan: no, he's in #tycoon?
17:36<DaleStan>Yep. Or lurking it, anyway.
17:37<appe>(it works now)
17:37<appe>i had forgot to put and end signal to a single rail
17:37<appe>and it fucked it all up
17:37<benjamingoodger>good GOD
17:37<Antdovu>that must be FAST ;)
17:38<Antdovu>the amount of tracks is the real bottleneck here
17:38*Rubidium says something with barbeque...
17:38<appe>well, yeah.
17:38<appe>its just fun
17:38<appe>and its like that all over the map
17:38<appe>i only have about ten industries left
17:38<valhallasw>zomg 90-degree-turns :P
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17:39<@Rubidium>,%201st%20Nov%202337.png <- that's much more busy ;)
17:39<appe>holy cow.
17:40<appe>well hey, you got some money.
17:40<@Rubidium>a 128x128 map with 1.5 times more transported cargo than OTTDcoop's famous Pile Transport (1024x1024) map
17:41<appe>though, how can that be profitable? how do you get so heavy amounts of stuff to ship?
17:41<Vikthor>lol at the ships, I gather you are not proponent of introducing ship collision ? :p
17:41<appe>OTTDcoop's famous Pile Transport (1024x1024) map?
17:41<@Rubidium>not really no ;)
17:42<Antdovu>I am afraid of starting a new openttd game
17:42<Antdovu>it takes forever to play it :P
17:43<benjamingoodger>I have not yet managed to generate a map that works properly for me..
17:44<benjamingoodger>maybe when cargodest comes in it'll be a bit better
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17:47<Fantasya>2 hours and 12 minutes to YOUTUBE LIVE!!!!
17:48<Fantasya>omg waiting waiting
17:48<benjamingoodger>what on earth is youtube live?
17:48<Fantasya>live broadcast
17:48<Fantasya>, akon, katy perry
17:48<Fantasya>all in LIVE!
17:49<Antdovu>I heard that there was a contest to make an actually good video for youtube
17:49<benjamingoodger>I asked what it was, not for a promotional leaflet
17:49<Fantasya>3 comments per second
17:49<benjamingoodger>thank you for the link
17:49<@petern>sounds very exciting
17:49<@petern>i'm going to bed :D
17:49<Fantasya>lol :D
17:50<benjamingoodger>I'm going to design some stationery
17:50<Fantasya>half world will be on youtube after 2 hours
17:50<Antdovu>when I have a need to drop my IQ then I'll be sure to check the comments out
17:50<Fantasya>i think youtube want to make record of guiness
17:50<Fantasya>77000 subscribers :O
17:51<Antdovu>is it just me or are you way too excited?
17:52<benjamingoodger>no, it's me too
17:52<benjamingoodger>oh, wait
17:52<benjamingoodger>you're me
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's me!
17:52<Fantasya>im very excited
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17:53<Fantasya>ProfFrink set youtube in ready status
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17:53<Eddi|zuHause>ok... that's a clear *plonk* for you
17:54*Rubidium agrees with Eddi|zuHause
17:56<Fantasya>2-4 comments per seconds about youtube live
17:57<Antdovu>We're Sorry
17:57<Antdovu>Firefox had a problem and crashed. We'll try to restore your tabs and windows when it restarts.
17:57<Prof_Frink>Fantasya: wtfayboa?
17:58<Fantasya>YouTube Live
17:58<Fantasya>2 hours and 2 minutes
17:58<Antdovu>crack is bad for you, m'kay?
17:59<Fantasya>840000 subscribers
17:59<Fantasya>15000 subscribers per 8 minutes
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18:03<benjamingoodger>sodding inkscape with its sodding font handling!
18:03<benjamingoodger>if I type "12" into the font size box, I want the text to be 12pt high, damn it
18:04-!-ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke]
18:05<Antdovu>no, you want it to be 12 furlongs high
18:06<benjamingoodger>oh, is that the unit they presume?
18:06<benjamingoodger>that makes sense..
18:06<benjamingoodger>and I'm still no good at graphic design, even with proper font sizes :(
18:07<Antdovu>I'm pretty good at drawing grids
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18:07<benjamingoodger>unfortunately there's a plugin for grids
18:07<Antdovu>but mine are unique
18:09<Antdovu>I take space-time distortion into account
18:09<benjamingoodger>do they incorporate curves?
18:09<Antdovu>so yes, they do
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18:10<Antdovu>and sometimes some lines are missing because of quantum effects
18:11<Antdovu>your plugin can't do that, can it? ;)
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18:24<Sacro>!calc 2^7
18:24<Sacro>@calc 2^7
18:24<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
18:24<Sacro>@calc 2**7
18:24<@DorpsGek>Sacro: 128
18:24<Sacro>hmm, though as much
18:25<Qball>you need a calc for that?
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>he's Sacro.
18:25<Qball>2^8 == 256
18:25<Qball>one byte..
18:25<Sacro>Qball: hush you :P
18:26<appe>steve jobs did it again.
18:26<Sacro>sigh, i hate big/little endian
18:26<Sacro>it confuses me
18:26<Qball>did what again
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18:30<Eddi|zuHause>appe: you do realise that this video is 7 years old?
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18:32<appe>"again" is for his way of speaking, that could have been.. well, yesterday.
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what you mean by that
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18:33<benjamingoodger>no, me either
18:34<Sacro>return (byte)((msb * 256) + lsb);
18:34<Sacro>now why did i do that...
18:34<@Rubidium>because you wanted to determine the effectiveness of your compiler in pruning unneeded instructions?
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>because you did not put a wrapper function for big endian translation, which you actually documented
18:35<Sacro>this file was generated by delphi so it is big endian
18:35<Sacro>Rubidium: what is unneeded?
18:36<@Rubidium>the msb, the *, the 256 and the +
18:36<Sacro>oh ?
18:37<fjb>(byte) cuts off the shifted msb.
18:37<Sacro> byte lsb = breader.ReadByte();
18:37<Sacro> byte msb = breader.ReadByte();
18:37<Sacro> return (byte)((msb * 256) + lsb);
18:37<Sacro>surely that's correct?
18:37<@Rubidium>yes, it's valid C, C++, Java and probably quite a few others too
18:37-!-svippery [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:38<Sacro>I'm using C#
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't mean it does what you want it to do :p
18:38<@Rubidium>whether the behaviour is what you expect is something completely different
18:38<Sacro>I can't add bytes without prefixng (byte_
18:38<fjb>so "(byte)((msb * 256) + lsb) == lsb" if I'm not mistaken.
18:38<Sacro>so it does :o
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>256 is already larger than any value that a byte could hold
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>that's why this part of the expression is useless
18:39<Sacro>oh crap ><
18:39<Sacro>I need to return a byte array
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>no, you need to return the next bigger integer type
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>one that is 2 bytes wide
18:40<@Rubidium>it all depends on what you want to have
18:41<Sacro>argh crap ><
18:42<SpComb>if you're trying to deal with byte ordering of 16-bit integers, there's probably some ready-made way to handle that
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18:42<Eddi|zuHause>also, since you do bitshifting, you'd rather want to use << and | operators
18:42<Sacro> for (int i = 0; i < 4; i++)
18:42<Sacro> toReturn += breader.ReadByte() << (8 * i);
18:42<Sacro> return toReturn;
18:42<Sacro>does that seem right?
18:42<Sacro>it seems to workp
18:42<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: if you use C# you are not allowed to use those!
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>wtf kind of language disallows bitwise operations?
18:43<benjamingoodger>a really shitty one, obviously
18:43<Sacro>Rubidium: yes you can
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: again, i would deem |= more appropriate
18:44<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it's not the language that disallows it, but "you" using the language that disallows it
18:44<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: eh?
18:45<@Rubidium>i.e. if you use C# you won't care about that stuff anyways
18:45<Sacro>i have bitwise
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>well, | does the same as + if the values don't "overlap", but + still checks for carry-over
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>which you can prove (or assert) that it cannot occur
18:46<Sacro>hmm, I'm not sure Eddi|zuHause is getting this
18:46<Sacro>night wolf
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18:47<Eddi|zuHause>you have two byte values: UV and WX
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>you want to combine them to a word value UVWX
18:47<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: Yeah
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>you can do UV*256, so you end up with UV00
18:47<Sacro>well, I think :\
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>then you add WX
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>-> UVWX
18:47<Sacro>I think :\
18:48<Sacro>I don't quite understand it myself
18:48<SpComb>Sacro: so use the provided methods
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>in this case, you can also use UV00 | 00WX, since one of the two bits is always 0
18:48<Sacro>SpComb: i've confused myself
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>so UV00 | 00WX == UV00 + 00WX
18:49<@Rubidium>and you can confuse Sacro pretty easily
18:49<Sacro>A B-unit holds several truth values or options. It is encoded as an I-unit; the value must be positive. The value is broken into individual bits, with 1 meaning the option is chosen and 0 meaning it is not. The bits are numbered from 0 as the least significant bit. Thus:
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>for all possible values of UV and WX
18:49<@Rubidium>just mass-join #tycoon and Sacro'll go nuts
18:49<Sacro>argh no D:
18:49-!-vraa [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:50<Sacro>I like having two seperate channels with different people
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18:51<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: certainly you once were taught that U | 0 == U
18:51<Sacro>and U & 0 == 0
18:51<SpComb>Sacro: you can use something like BitConverter.ToInt32 and IPAddress.NetworkToHostOrder
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>| and + only produce different output when two bits are 1
18:51<SpComb>I don't do C# myself so I don't know the core libraries, but it seems there's some kind of binary-representation and byte ordering support
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>1 | 1 == 1, 1 + 1 == 10 [base 2]
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>but it can never happen that two bits are 1 when you are combining bytes in the way you do, as you shift them so far, that the byte values do not overlap
18:57<Sacro> byte[] toReturn = new byte[2];
18:57<Sacro> toReturn[1] = breader.ReadByte();
18:57<Sacro> toReturn[0] = breader.ReadByte();
18:57<Sacro> return toReturn;
18:57<Sacro>does that sound better?
18:58<@Rubidium>still depends on what you want to do
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18:58<Nite_Owl>Hello all
18:59<Sacro>i'm well confused
19:01<benjamingoodger>hello night owl
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>Nite_Owl: you confuse Sacro.
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>well, view that as an initiation ritus ;)
19:02<Nite_Owl>I have been known to have that effect on people
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>everybody has that effect on Sacro ;)
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19:32<Eddi|zuHause>i don't actually have the bandwidth to click on every youtube link out there...
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19:36<Char>noone around?
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>why would there be anyone around?
19:39<Sacro>oh god I still can't fix this ><M
19:42<Gekz>is that how most german people look? :P
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>depends from which side you look at them
19:43<SmatZ>appe: (great video you posted)
19:45<Sacro>Rubidium: heeelp :'(
19:46-!-Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:47<Fantasya>youtube live on the line!!!!!!
19:47<Patrick>howdo I add all trains on a shared order list to a particular group?
19:47<Sacro_>Rubidium: i need help :'(
19:47<Patrick>or, more specifically, upgrade only some trains on some shared order
19:47<SmatZ>Patrick: goto, ctrl+click on train to share orders with
19:48<SmatZ>Patrick: err... "Add shared vehicles" in the Train groups window?
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>Patrick: in the "Manage List" dropdown
19:48<Sacro_>Rubidium: is the soec for the file i am parsing
19:48<Patrick>wait wait
19:49<Patrick>you're both telling me the solution to something I almost want to do
19:49<Patrick>add shared vehicles, I have to drag-drop them one at a time
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>you drag one vehicle to the group
19:49<Patrick>autoreplace will replace everything with that engine type
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>then go to the group
19:49<Patrick>add shared vehicles
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>click on the "add shared vehicles to this group" button
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>and then set an autoreplace rule for this group
19:51<Patrick>chaos ensues
19:51<Patrick>followed by a better train
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>i'd much rather have a way to auto-cycle engines to the next lower train class...
19:53<Patrick>I'm sure you have a reason
19:53<@Rubidium>Sacro_: looks pretty trivial to implement (to me at least)
19:53<Sacro_>Rubidium: yeah, I thought that
19:53-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:53<Sacro_>But I can't work out how to get bits 0,1,2
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>like if i have express trains with BR 18 and local trains with BR 38
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>then i get the brand new BR 01
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>i want to introduce the BR 01 to the express trains, rotate the BR 18 to the local trains, and slowly phase out the BR 38
19:54<@Rubidium>getting bits 0,1 and 2?
19:56<Sacro_>Rubidium: yeah
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>the only way to reasonably do that right now is to autoreplace the BR 18 with BR 01, and autoreplace the BR 38 with BR 18, which doesn't make a lot of sense
19:57<Fantasya>2 minutes left !!!!!
19:58*Rubidium really wonders why Sacro can't even parse the document
20:00<Fantasya>10 seconds
20:00<Sacro_> byte[] toReturn = new byte[2];
20:00<Sacro_> toReturn[1] = breader.ReadByte(); // LSB
20:00<Sacro_> toReturn[0] = breader.ReadByte(); // MSB
20:00<Sacro_> return toReturn;
20:00<Sacro_>is what i have
20:00<Sacro_>but then I can't get it into a bitarray and extra the data correctly
20:00<SmatZ>hmm I need op to kick for flood :-P
20:00<SmatZ>Sacro_: we have for this
20:00<Sacro_>SmatZ: 4 lines, leave me alone :p
20:01<SmatZ>Sacro_: I knew I don't have op ;)
20:01<Fantasya>katy perry
20:01<Fantasya>in youtube
20:01<Fantasya>hot and cold
20:02<SmatZ>this place is #tycoon-izing slowly :-P
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>lack of acting operator, i think ;)
20:03<SmatZ>hehe :)
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20:05<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro_: have you ever looked at stuff like the GB macro in openttd?
20:05<Sacro_>Eddi|zuHause: nope, I don't need macros, afaik BitArray does the jkob
20:06*Rubidium thinks Sacro_ has absolutely no idea how computers work and therefor what an application actually does
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't say you should use macros
20:06<@Rubidium>and what would be a sane way to implement it
20:06<Sacro_>Rubidium: the freaky thing is i can imagine how to do it in m68k asm
20:07-!-Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
20:07<@Rubidium>GB is a macro?
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>i meant that you might want to look at that code, because it does a conversion like the one you probably want to do
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: it used to be ;)
20:07<Sacro>what do I need to convert?
20:08<Sacro>and I can do BitArray.touInt
20:08<Fantasya>youtube FTW
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: you'd probably want something like BitArray.fromInt() or Integer.toBitArray(), if those exist
20:14<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: I can start a bitarray from an array of bytes
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>so then what is your problem?
20:15<Sacro>it does't seem to be getting the correct data
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it's not doing what you expect it to do?
20:15<Sacro>I#m not sure if it is or not
20:16<Sacro>bytes[0] & 1 is bit 0
20:17<Sacro>bytes[0] & 12 is bit 1
20:32-!-Chrill [] has quit []
20:32<Fantasya>mythbusters on the line
20:32<Fantasya>at the youtube
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20:34<appe>i got rickrolld
20:34<benjamingoodger>HA! :P
20:34<appe>me - internet: 0 - 1.
20:34<appe>im going to fall asleep to carl sagans cosmos
20:34<benjamingoodger>my internet connection is pathetic enough that I was able to read the <title> and close the tab before the flash loaded
20:34<appe>that man is a hero.
20:35<appe>benjamingoodger: ah. i got the lighter version: the original music video on youtube. :>
20:35<@Rubidium>Sacro: <- only took 20 minutes and should work if you make the classes and fix the typos ;)
20:36<Sacro>can't use it :(
20:36<appe>funny thing with rickroll is that nobody dares to click any links around teh discussion
20:36*Sacro read the licence line
20:36<Sacro>that will infect my library
20:37<@Rubidium>Sacro: poor you ;)
20:37<appe>the last two lines was me chasing my paniced cat over the bed.
20:38*Rubidium wonders what license Sacro would use for his stuff ;)
20:38<Sacro>Rubidium: just playing with a hex editor now
20:38<Sacro>looks like somehow it isn't being read
20:40<Sacro>hmm, should be returning 1
20:47<Sacro>though it should have broken by now
20:47<Sacro>or not...
20:47<Sacro>no, i thought the peekchar wasn't consuming a bit
20:47<Sacro>but it's not supposed to
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20:58<Sacro>Rubidium: sorted it ><
20:58*Sacro was doing something really stupid
21:01*benjamingoodger toys with concept of saying "clearly", "as usual" or such, then decides it would be excessively cruel
21:01<Sacro>benjamingoodger: mm :(
21:02<Sacro>lets just say that return new byte[] {breader.ReadByte()};
21:02<Sacro>was what I wanted
21:03<Sacro>rather than the perhaps silly thing of returning the value as the size of the array...
21:03<benjamingoodger>very well
21:03<Sacro>but I could have used array.size i suppose
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21:35*benjamingoodger attempts to liven-up conversation
21:35<benjamingoodger>everyone is encouraged to dismantle the above and criticise it to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law
21:37<Gekz>benjamingoodger: bland
21:37<Gekz>like a fox.
21:38<benjamingoodger>is that a compliment or an insult? I can't decide :S
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21:50<benjamingoodger>I can't tell
21:56<benjamingoodger>I was half-hoping someone would telephone me ^_^
21:56-!-mortal`` [] has quit [Quit: Enohp eht no S'enilorac, Regor... Tnoflahc, mraf ynnuf eht fo erac, 'Knip Dlo' ot rewsna ruoy dnes esaelp. Egassem terces eht derevocsid tsuj evah uoy, sn]
21:57<benjamingoodger>so, you have just discovered the secret message
21:58<benjamingoodger>please send your reply to 'old pink', care of the funny farm, chalfont...
21:58<benjamingoodger>roger, caroline's on the phone
21:58<benjamingoodger>.......that must be the weirdest quit message I've ever seen
22:05<Fantasya>YOUTUBE LIVE!!!
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23:12<benjamingoodger>good grief
23:12<benjamingoodger>that truly belongs on I Can't Believe They Invented It!
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 23 00:00:16 2008