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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-11-23

---Logopened Sun Nov 23 00:00:16 2008
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00:07<Sacro>my god this language sucks
00:07<Sacro>I can't have a virtual bound datagridview
00:07<Sacro>so i either have speed or sorting
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04:38<Wolf01>uhm... I miss a time for the depot stop :|
04:38<benjamingoodger>[MCR CONTROL CODE C]
04:39<Wolf01>* in timetables
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05:14<Fantasya>uhhhhh. hard morn ://///
05:14<Fantasya>youtube live YEAAH. :)))))))
05:15<benjamingoodger>*rolls eyes to maximum extent permitted by law*
05:16<@Rubidium>stop in depot X, wait Y and then stay stopped?
05:16<Wolf01>no, stop in depot X, wait for Y and then start
05:17<Fantasya>no no. stop in depot X, wait Y and then stop for X
05:17<Wolf01>no, stop in depot X, wait Y and then stop for X and then start for Z
05:18<Wolf01>Rubidium, like in stations, but at least stopped trains don't pay any maintenance for being stopped at depot
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05:33<AgentLeMan>hello everybody
05:34<Doorslammer>Hi Dr Nick
05:34<benjamingoodger>bonjour m. le Man
05:34<AgentLeMan>dang, Doorslammer.... °falls off the chair laughing°
05:35*benjamingoodger wants, when he has got his PhD, to add "nicolas" to his forenames
05:35<benjamingoodger>and then to force people to say "hi, dr nick"
05:36<AgentLeMan>or at least "dr. nic"
05:36<AgentLeMan>alright, off to work...
05:36<benjamingoodger>without the period, though... periods only go on the end of abbreviations that don't emit any letters within the word
05:37<AgentLeMan>as i was building around my tracks, i came about a weird behaviour which includes a station and °drumroll° a train
05:37<AgentLeMan>nah, i meant this other "work"
05:37<benjamingoodger>rather than a hovercraft, presumably
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05:37<AgentLeMan>exactly :o)
05:38<benjamingoodger>I see
05:38<AgentLeMan>i just try to describe the matter in whole first.
05:38<benjamingoodger>so every religion is wrong!
05:38<benjamingoodger>I bet yorick wishes he hadn't missed your proof
05:38<benjamingoodger>...anyway, returning to openttd...
05:38*yorick will just read the logs.
05:38<AgentLeMan>it seems, there is a fidderence, between trainstations that are 1 and 2 tiles long and trainstations, which are 3 tiles long or longer
05:39<benjamingoodger>ah, foiled
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05:39<AgentLeMan>oh, and i dont mean the length °grins°
05:40<benjamingoodger> what?
05:40<benjamingoodger>besides the length...
05:42<AgentLeMan>im testing something to get it more clear.
05:42<benjamingoodger>what is it vaguely about? :P
05:43<AgentLeMan>it seems, if a station is longer than 2 tiles, a train that has the option to drive thorugh that station and along a track that includes no station, decides to drive along the part of track without station
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05:44<AgentLeMan>if its 1 or 2 tiles long, that station, it drives through that station instead
05:45<benjamingoodger>is this "1 or 2 tiles long" as in "1 or 2 tiles long", or "1 or 2 tiles long" as in "shorter than 3 tiles, which is the length of the train"?
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05:46<benjamingoodger>both sensible, the latter seems to make more sense
05:46<Wolf01>I downloaded the ottd-useful 2.0, where should I extract it? (I use VC80)
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05:47<AgentLeMan>tracklayout : station A --+-- station C --+-- station B ( the + indicates the switch, where the nonstation track connects to on both sides )
05:47<AgentLeMan>the orders are to go from A to B. the train is just the engine, no cars
05:48<benjamingoodger>is the route that avoids the station shorter at all?
05:50<AgentLeMan>it is longer. imagine a "U"-layout. station A and station B are at the ends of that U, station C in the middle. the stationless track is just "below" that U, if this makes sense ( i could start a mp-server though )
05:51<benjamingoodger>yep, makes perfect sense
05:51<benjamingoodger>probably best start that mp server if you don't mind
05:51<benjamingoodger>this needs poking at
05:52<AgentLeMan>what i really find weird is... if it would only happen, if the station is shorter than 2, it would not really make sense still, but at least its then something. but 1 AND 2 tiles?
05:52<benjamingoodger>well, 1/2 length stations are far more likely to be waypoints
05:52<Alberth>AgentLeMan: you can try making the 2 tile station path longer
05:53<benjamingoodger>there is a substantially increased likelihood that the longer station will be occupied
05:53<benjamingoodger>what pathfinder are you using?
05:53<AgentLeMan>the recommended. and its a testenvironment, no other trains
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>AgentLeMan: stations that are not in the orders get pathfinder penalty
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>and the penalty gets added for each station tile
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>so the penalty is higher for 3 length platforms than for 2 length platforms
05:55<AgentLeMan>wow :o))
05:55<Eddi|zuHause>so the platform looks like it is 3 times as long as a normal track
05:55<benjamingoodger>see, whitebox > blackbox testing
05:56<AgentLeMan>so, after 2 tiles the penalty kinda reaches an amount that is enough to make the train go the longer way
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>but you can adjust this penalty
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>"list_patches yapf" on the console or something
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>a normal track tile has a penalty of 100
05:58<AgentLeMan>thank you :o) that makes total sense. i tested around for that like hours and was a bit confused
06:01<AgentLeMan>hm... first, the stationless track, was just a 2 tiles away paralell track to the stationtrack.
06:01<AgentLeMan>now it is 20 tiles away
06:02<AgentLeMan>and it still dont drives through the station
06:03<AgentLeMan>-dont +doesnt
06:05<AgentLeMan>or more like...
06:05<AgentLeMan>and it still !drives through the station
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06:10<AgentLeMan>( if interested, the servername is "testing" )
06:10<AgentLeMan>( password is the same as the name )
06:12*benjamingoodger engages sleeve-rollers
06:13<benjamingoodger>version mismatch
06:13<AgentLeMan>uhm, its 063
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06:13<benjamingoodger>yeah, I'm on 062
06:14<yorick>0.6.2 is buggy!
06:14<AgentLeMan>weird, i dont even see a connection attempt
06:14<yorick>AgentLeMan, version check is before the connection attempt
06:14<AgentLeMan>i thought, there would be something like "connection not aceppted : error : version mismatch"
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06:15<AgentLeMan>so the version gets advertised too. nifty.
06:15<benjamingoodger>may be buggy, but it's still the last one to be in Debian before lenny got frozen, so I'm stuck with it for the next month or so
06:15<yorick>benjamingoodger: just compile the new one
06:16<benjamingoodger>can't be arsed
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06:17<benjamingoodger>i.e., I don't really care enough to go through the tedious charade of compilation
06:17<yorick>svn co svn:// && ./configure && make
06:17<yorick>how tedious
06:17<Qball>yorick: forgot apt-get build-dep openttd
06:17<Qball>if it is in apt
06:17<yorick>Qball, I don't have apt
06:18<Qball>well benjamingoodger does
06:18<benjamingoodger>'tis, hence why I mentioned debian several times
06:18<yorick>apt :o
06:18<benjamingoodger>also, after make is finished, I have to run make install, and that means authenticating as root and then changing directories again
06:18<benjamingoodger>and then I have to remove the compiled files
06:19<Qball>benjamingoodger: don't have to make install
06:19<yorick>make install :o
06:19<Qball>you can run it from the bin dir
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06:19<benjamingoodger>I want it in $root, or, again, it's too much effort to find the binary and double-click it
06:20<Qball>benjamingoodger: go back to windows
06:20<benjamingoodger>and I'll end up forgetting anyway
06:20<Qball>lazy bum
06:20<benjamingoodger>well, yes
06:20<benjamingoodger>one of the reasons I use linux
06:21<benjamingoodger>I start the machine, log in, and all of the applications I use start automatically
06:21<Tefad>windows can do that too..
06:21<Tefad>i do it at work
06:21<Tefad>: D
06:21<benjamingoodger>I know, but it's so tedious to set up
06:21<yorick>ITS NOT
06:21<Tefad>uh, drag/drop to startup in start menu?
06:21<yorick>just drag the shortcut > startup in start menu
06:21<mrfrenzy>yorick, Tefad: do not feed the troll
06:21<Tefad>mrfrenzy: heeeee
06:21<benjamingoodger>I'm not trolling, for goodness' sake
06:22<yorick>there you did it again
06:22<Qball>may the troll be with you
06:22<yorick>linux-fanboy-without-obvious-reason :o
06:23<Tefad>i'm not so much a linux fanboy as i am an open source fanboy
06:23<benjamingoodger>I'm telling entirely the truth. I use linux because I'm lazy. it updates itself automatically and doesn't require routine reinstalls, reboots or defrags
06:23<Tefad>i use linux only because of it being more compatible with my hardware than freebsd
06:23<yorick>defrags stopped being needed with xp
06:23<Qball>I use linux because it is the lesser evill
06:24<AgentLeMan>the other thing i saw was... there also is something with stationlength, trainlength and reversing the train.
06:24<valhallasw>yorick: more specifically: with ntfs
06:24<yorick>auto-update is in XPsp2
06:24<Tefad>benjamingoodger: my linux doesn't update itself.
06:24<Tefad>hell my linux breaks itself all the time : D
06:24<yorick>I never needed to reinstall things
06:24<benjamingoodger>apt goes a little further than windows update, methinks
06:25<Tefad>i stopped using windows because of BSODs and other horrible things
06:25<yorick>no condescending application managers...
06:25<valhallasw>for some reason people seem to think windows has not been developed since win98
06:25<AgentLeMan>it seems, if the train is at least 1 tile shorter than the station ( station being 5 tiles long ), it drives through that station on its way to the next station, else it reverses inside the station.
06:25<benjamingoodger>considering windows vista (pre-sp1), that's entirely forgiveable
06:26<Tefad>like uninstalling a wifi driver which removes a vital windows component causing a dialog to pop up even in safe mode, before the login prompt: Windows is missing ____.dll please [fix it] and [restart your computer]."
06:26<benjamingoodger>one wonders why microsoft decided to remove interruptive multitasking from the original vista
06:26<Tefad>eehehehe. nice OS war convo in here
06:26<benjamingoodger>[joke, before flames]
06:26<benjamingoodger>actually, it's about which OS is friendlier to lazy bums
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06:27<Tefad>that would be ubuntu rhel mandriva OS X XP Vista.
06:27<Tefad>i guess centos fits in there
06:27<Tefad>let me know if i missed any
06:27<AgentLeMan>so at a 5 tiles-station, an 8 and 9 wagon long train reverses, anything less doesnt.
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06:27<benjamingoodger>which end is ubuntu at?
06:27<Tefad>ease of use
06:27<Tefad>ubuntu pisses me off though so i can't use it
06:27<AgentLeMan>which i dont quite understand.
06:28<yorick>SmatZ: you couldn't guess I was using windows?
06:28<benjamingoodger>in that case, I'll place debian just after ubuntu
06:28<benjamingoodger>and also, install gentoo after osx
06:28<Tefad>oh, my list had no significant sequence
06:28<benjamingoodger>oh, I see
06:28<Tefad>gentoo is HORRIBLE
06:28<valhallasw>debian friendly for lazy bums... right. I'll go back to watching Stephen Fry in America
06:28<benjamingoodger>ah, we agree ^^
06:28<Tefad>i use gentoo.
06:29<Tefad>i might switch to freebsd if i learn it's compatible with my hardware
06:29<AgentLeMan>°yawns at useless "xy is better"-talks, as its just a matter of personal preferences or insulting people one doesnt know even°
06:29<Qball>lets try vim vs emacs
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06:29<benjamingoodger>gentoo, for my experience, was the very definition of lazy-unfriendliness, as it broke every time I installed a new gcc... of course, I was probably doing something wrong ¬.¬
06:30<Tefad>hell, right now it breaks itself with normal use
06:30<yorick>my windows doesn't break when I install a new gcc :p
06:30<benjamingoodger>this is true.
06:31<Tefad>they masked a new version of their package manager so that it won't install, however to update your system properly you need this new version! the old one bugs out.
06:31<Qball>Tefad: :D
06:31<Qball>sounds like gentoy allright
06:31<benjamingoodger>sounds slightly better than the ubuntu upgrade path, which boils down to "swear at it for a few hours, then reinstall from clean"...
06:31<benjamingoodger>anyway, the point is, I'm too lazy to install and compile openttd for the sake of a version bump of 0.01
06:32<Tefad>heh my ubuntu logic is this: try to update. wait a day. try to update.
06:32<Qball>another automatrix user
06:32<benjamingoodger>nope, just standard gentoo
06:32<Tefad>it's ok. i get them mixed up when speaking sometimes.
06:32<Tefad>too many u/oo sounds.
06:33<yorick>benjamingoodger: 0.0.1 means the difference between playing newer servers and not playing newer servers
06:33<benjamingoodger>I don't actually play multiplayer
06:33<SmatZ>Tefad: it's kind of broken, but can be solved with emerge --nodeps
06:33<benjamingoodger>of course, that was back in 2006. after ubuntu 6.10 came out [ask about my rant on that thing's development cycle!] I switched to debian in disgust
06:33<Tefad>the lib_err thing?
06:34<Tefad>e2fs_tools or whatever
06:34<Tefad>i fixed mine weeks ago and muddled around .. broke my wget
06:34<Tefad>before downloading the needed files...
06:34<Qball>what I love about debian is the fact that you run the latest software, from 2 years ago
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06:34<SmatZ>I didn't have serious problems...
06:35<SmatZ>though the easiest solution is to go with ~arch for portage
06:35<Tefad>mmmm testing.
06:35<benjamingoodger>Qball: that's a tedious old slur that has long since been relegated to the status of "baseless argument munition"
06:35<@Rubidium>Qball: use either testing or sid?
06:36<benjamingoodger>servers can quite happily use software from 2 years ago. if they had to use today's software, they'd be really scared
06:36<Qball>always works :D
06:36<benjamingoodger>non-servers use either testing or unstable depending on their foolhardiness
06:36<benjamingoodger>and/or skill.
06:37<Tefad>SmatZ: hai.
06:37<AgentLeMan>Rubidium, do you maybe know, why at a 5 tiles-station, an 8 and 9 wagon long train reverses inside that station, anything less takes an alternative route? in different words, as long as there is a full empty tile, they drive through.
06:40<SmatZ>hello Tefad :P
06:42<benjamingoodger>let's have another argument
06:43<benjamingoodger>which is the best european country?
06:43<Qball>no no
06:43<Qball>vim vs emacs
06:43<Qball>gnome vs kde
06:43<Qball>nano vs ed
06:43<benjamingoodger>well, I have to live in one of them in three years
06:43<Qball>benjamingoodger: poor sod
06:43<benjamingoodger>might as well get the informed opinions of those who know about them
06:43<@petern>britain :D
06:44<benjamingoodger>that's the one I'm fleeing!
06:44<Qball>HA HA HA
06:44<benjamingoodger>though the :D probably means you've whoised me, and therefore are saying that to be ironic
06:44<Qball>I only whowas somebody
06:46<@petern>i may have done long ago
06:46<Fantasya>best after katy perry from youtube live :)))))))))))))))))))
06:46<benjamingoodger>oh god, he's returned
06:47-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*a@78.59.192.*] by petern
06:47-!-Fantasya was kicked from #openttd by petern [******* can advertise themselves]
06:47<yorick>Fantasya: stop spamming useless youtube links, please
06:47<Qball>it is a new irc meme
06:47<benjamingoodger>too late, poor yorick
06:47<Qball>I think
06:47<benjamingoodger>....I knew him, horatio
06:47<Qball>spamming youtube links
06:47<yorick>should be put back > topic
06:48-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*a@78.59.192.*] by petern
06:48<AgentLeMan>hm, i guess thats a "no" then.
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06:50<yorick>m, banning whole ranges?
06:51<yorick>I'm banned from #nl on ircnet because someone else banned my whole static ip range :/
06:52<Alberth>and cannot even speak Dutch here
06:52<Eddi|zuHause><benjamingoodger> I want it in $root, or, again, it's too much effort to find the binary and double-click it <- i have a ~/bin, where i can put binaries without being root
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06:58<yorick>DrawArrowButtons doesn't fully respect the button_colour
06:58<yorick>i.e. if you give it a different colour than yellow, it will still overlay the disabled buttons with a yellow shade
07:01<@petern>fix it then
07:01<yorick>there you go :)
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07:15<Wolf01>petern, I downloaded the new ottd-useful, where should I extract it?
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07:19<AgentLeMan>extract the file and copy:
07:19<AgentLeMan>* The contents of the include folder to C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\include\.
07:19<AgentLeMan>* The contents of the library folder to C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\lib\.
07:21<AgentLeMan>as described at
07:23<Wolf01>oh, thank you, I downloaded it from the home page link, I was expecting to find a readme in the archive
07:23<AgentLeMan>yes, sadly there isnt.
07:25<AgentLeMan>anyone has here knowledge about physics or mechanics regarding the rollresistance of wheels?
07:28-!-Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
07:31<@petern>all i know is that 'realistic' acceleration sucks :p
07:34<AgentLeMan>but.. no, you dont think really it sucks. imagine, you would go instantly to 55mph with your car and that the bus with which you dirive to work, would stop instantly at the next station... especially that yo udont want, with that 400 lbs lady sitting behind you ;o)
07:37<CIA-5>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14609 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use supplied button colour instead of hardcoded yellow, for 'greyed out' arrow buttons. (Yorick)
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07:46<xand>is it possible to get openttd to use smp? it currently uses 100% of one of my cores but none of the other
07:48<Patrick>saving uses threads
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07:53<xand>I guess that's what I get for having such big maps/1000 vehicles :|
07:54<yorick>petern: close ;)
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08:29<AgentLeMan>°waves° a good day/night to you all
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08:42<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14610 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt spritecache.cpp spriteloader/grf.cpp):
08:42<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2415]: possible stack corruption when reading corrupted sprites.
08:42<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Change: harden the sprite reading routine against corrupt sprites.
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09:17<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14611 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
09:17<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix (r13437)[FS#2421]: Store the age of a house in the map array instead of the construction year.
09:17<CIA-5>OpenTTD: Note: Savegames from r13437 to now are broken and have a age of 255 years for a lot houses.
09:35<Wolf01>if I want to allow construction of uphill tracks on diagonal slopes, how I should modify the allowed track bits?
09:36<mrfrenzy>Is that physically possible?
09:37<benjamingoodger>so long as the track doesn't intersect with the land... *shrug*
09:37<frosch123>Wolf01: modify GetRailFoundation and ApplyFoundationToSlope and DrawFoundation
09:37<Wolf01>yes I know, I and a friend are trying for about 1 hour to do something
09:38<mrfrenzy>I mean is it possible IRL
09:38<benjamingoodger>so long as the track doesn't intersect with the land
09:39<mrfrenzy>aah you mean you have to level enough land on the slope ofcourse so the track is level
09:39<Wolf01>we want to allow this
09:39<benjamingoodger>that'll easily work IRL
09:39<mrfrenzy>aha, that's not what I was thinking at all
09:39<mrfrenzy>indeed it is
09:40<SmatZ>Wolf01: I had a simple patch for it somewhere
09:40<SmatZ>but I don't have anymore :-p
09:40<frosch123>Wolf01: you will have to concentrate the uphill track on one tile, else you will get a lot of trouble
09:41<SmatZ>also, you will have "double steepness" and uphill-stright combinations
09:41<frosch123>to be precise: the slope with one corner raised, as the three-corner-raised slope can already have a track it that direction
09:41<SmatZ>or you will have to merge those two trackbits into one, blahblah
09:41<SmatZ>as frosch123 says :)
09:41<Char>i got too much music i guess
09:42<Char>kinda sucks to sort it :P
09:44*yorick would like irregular-shaped windows
09:55<benjamingoodger>how irregular?
09:56<benjamingoodger>if they aren't perfectly square, they're technically irregular already
09:57<yorick>not rectangular either
09:57<yorick>any of those
09:58<benjamingoodger>for prefix in latin_numeric_prefixes: print "%sagonal" % prefix
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10:06<benjamingoodger>hey glx
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10:16<yorick>I got a 2-places at once-train :p
10:18<benjamingoodger>I think he's trying to say he's built a train that is in two places at once
10:18<yorick>loc in depot, wagons somewhere else
10:18<yorick>teleporting fail
10:18<SmatZ>ahh thanks
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10:23<yorick>SmatZ: could you look at and see why it does not teleport the whole train?
10:25<frosch123>GetNextVehicle skips articulated parts and rear heads of dual-headed engines
10:25<SmatZ>yorick: GetNextVehicle I guess
10:25<frosch123>well, maybe rear heads are only skipped by GetNextUnit
10:25<frosch123>cannot remember
10:25<yorick>it doesn't even teleport the wagons...
10:26<SmatZ>you can always do Vehicle *u = v->First()
10:26<frosch123>lol, maybe you should modify u
10:26<SmatZ>and use u = u->Next()
10:26<SmatZ>you are reading 'v' in that while loop :)
10:26<SmatZ>not u
10:27<SmatZ>*do/while loop
10:27<frosch123>this way it only works for cruxnores
10:29<SmatZ>why is frosch123 always faster than I :-p
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10:30<frosch123>I have just freshly lunched
10:31<frosch123>maybe that's why you are faster usually
10:32<SmatZ>I don't lunch that often
10:32<frosch123>wasn't you the one with four dinners per day?
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10:40<yorick>ah, thanks, that works
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10:54<SmatZ> can any native speaker check this? thanks :)
10:54<SmatZ>*native English speaker
10:55<SmatZ>is it fine, benjamingoodger?
10:55<benjamingoodger>I'd use "Force use of" possibly
10:55<benjamingoodger>otherwise fine
10:56<SmatZ>benjamingoodger: is it in the text I added?
10:57<SmatZ>benjamingoodger: thanks :)
10:57<benjamingoodger>I'd put "there is an argument, it is not empty, and it is exactly 1 char long" for clarity
10:57<frosch123>yup, better do not change exiting texts, the raised english quality might confuse others :p
10:57<benjamingoodger>though what you've put is technically correct, it's not idiomatically correct... stupid language
11:01<CIA-5>OpenTTD: smatz * r14612 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Change: force the argument given to '-i' parameter to be valid. Accept '2', too
11:01<benjamingoodger>woop, I'm contributing to an open-source project
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11:02<SmatZ>thanks for help, benjamingoodger ;-)
11:02<benjamingoodger>that's all right
11:02<yorick>don't feed the troll...
11:03<yorick>now he feels all special
11:03<yorick>look what you've done
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>don't worry, yorick, we only feed you on fridays
11:05<benjamingoodger>do feel free to throw any more snippets of english under my bridge
11:05<yorick>go be a translator
11:05<benjamingoodger>I shall emerge, ask a riddle, and then allow you passage, having scribbled down some hasty corrections
11:05<benjamingoodger>I'd quite like to
11:05<yorick>you'd translate english to english
11:05<benjamingoodger>the problem being, I don't speak any other languages properly
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11:06<benjamingoodger>I can usually translate Google Translate English to British English, though
11:06<benjamingoodger>not sure that's a legitimate career prospect.
11:07<yorick>google translate "in Dutch" to english: "In English"
11:08<yorick>with language recognition ;)
11:08<benjamingoodger>indeed so.
11:08<benjamingoodger>yes, the language recognition's a bit off
11:08<benjamingoodger>I once asked it for the German for "pyjamas" and it told me it couldn't translate Malay
11:09<yorick>it also has it with "in het Nederlands."
11:11<benjamingoodger>hej appe
11:12<appe>everything 'rite? :>
11:12<benjamingoodger>yorick has decided to hate me
11:12<benjamingoodger>otherwise, yes, fine
11:12<yorick>has he?
11:13<benjamingoodger>well, you keep calling me a troll, and asking people not to talk to me
11:13<benjamingoodger>I can only imagine you have some sort of dislike for me...
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>that's his way of telling that he feels lonely and needs someone to love him
11:14<benjamingoodger>ah, in that case I can fully sympathise
11:14<benjamingoodger>nobody is permitted to talk to yorick, either :)
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>don't worry, he's on half the channel's ignore list anyway :p
11:17<benjamingoodger>hmm, that raises worrying questions about my ignore-list incident frequency
11:17<frosch123>+ /* Clear the land as town to not affect town rating, and to not clear protected buildings */ <- "to not" or "not to" ?
11:18<benjamingoodger>I'm more worried about "clear the land as town"
11:19<benjamingoodger>but "to not" and "not to" are, generally, freely interchangeable --- though "not to" is slightly more standard
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11:21<appe>familiar with linux?
11:21<benjamingoodger>but if you change it to "not to", then you need to put "so as" in front, for idiom purposes
11:21<benjamingoodger>appe: yeah, why?
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>nobody here uses linux
11:21<appe>this server is really old. and i cant remember what ftps i have installed
11:21<appe>i think its called a 'daemon'
11:21<appe>and it suddenly doesnt work (i cant connect as usual)
11:21<benjamingoodger>sounds about right
11:22<benjamingoodger>the daemon part, I mean
11:22<appe>how do i check what daemon's are "on"?
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>ps -A
11:22<appe>2204 ? 00:00:00 vsftpd
11:23<appe>i guess that's the one
11:24<benjamingoodger>suggest restarting it?
11:24<appe>it works, localy.
11:24<benjamingoodger>/etc/init.d/vsftpd restart
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>then it's a firewall issue ;)
11:24<benjamingoodger>ah, yes, eddi is likely correct
11:24<appe>ok, here we go
11:25<appe>i need to change the accounts
11:25-!-Swallow [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:25<appe>since it directs me to /
11:25-!-Hirundo is now known as Swallow
11:25<appe>wich isnt that good.
11:25<Fantasya>Lithuania 3 place in young eurovision contest :D
11:26<benjamingoodger>I thought you were viciously reprimanded for talking about music events earlier?
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>i knew clearingt the ignore entry so early was a bad idea...
11:27<Fantasya>:DD you dont like music?
11:27<benjamingoodger>eddi: XD
11:27<Fantasya>./j music
11:27<appe>hmz. the port is open, but i still cant connect via my external ip.
11:28<Prof_Frink>Fantasya: Music is good. Eurovision is not music.
11:28<appe>i found it. my linksys router's been messing around
11:28<appe>i guess three years is what it can handle.
11:29<appe>it wasnt.
11:29<benjamingoodger>think yourself lucky. some people dream of seeing a linksys router
11:29<appe>p21 is and has always been open for the server internal ip.
11:29<appe>benjamingoodger: how come? it's not like it's expencive.
11:30<appe>ah, ok.
11:30<benjamingoodger>it's more expensive than £0.00, which was the cost of the crappy router my ISP supplied
11:30<appe>ah, hehe.
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11:30<appe>i guess we swedes are more used to buy our own inet gear
11:31<benjamingoodger>well, I'd happily buy my own router if I could get a decent internet connection
11:31<benjamingoodger>I'm stuck with 6 Mbit ADSL
11:31<benjamingoodger>with bandwidth caps
11:31<appe>oh, that's not neat.
11:31<appe>i pay 70SEK for uncapped gigabit
11:32<benjamingoodger>I know, damn it! :(
11:32<appe>70SEK is about ten dollars, i think.
11:32<benjamingoodger>I'm british
11:32<benjamingoodger>but I'm aware of how ridiculously small 70 SEK is
11:33<benjamingoodger>my connection costs 375 SEK at current exchange rates
11:33<appe>thats a normal price for 8-24Mb DSL here to, though.
11:33<yorick>I'm stuck with 20Mbit ADSL2+ without bantwith caps
11:33<benjamingoodger>what else is there?
11:33<appe>though, i wouldnt mind 10/10 instead of 1000/1000, as long as there is no cap.
11:34<appe>benjamingoodger: what else is what?
11:34<benjamingoodger>DSL costs 375 SEK pm
11:34<benjamingoodger>you're paying 70 SEK pm for something better
11:34<De_Ghosty>how high is ur cap on gigabit
11:34<benjamingoodger>what is that?
11:34<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r14613 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#2420]: When building industries, clear the tiles as OWNER_TOWN instead of the founder to take care of protected buildings and to not get stressed by town ratings.
11:35<appe>De_Ghosty: nothing.
11:35<benjamingoodger>is it fibre-optic?
11:35<appe>i have actually never seen any caps on any bb here.
11:35<benjamingoodger>cat5e cables buried underground?
11:35<De_Ghosty>can't get gigabit without fiber or really short cat6
11:35<benjamingoodger>some sort of weird satellite system?
11:36<De_Ghosty>not that i know of
11:36<appe>De_Ghosty: fiber to the basement, and cat6 up to the wall sockets.
11:36<benjamingoodger>actually, that was me
11:36<appe>i think it's a splitter (or what ever they call it) on every new floor.
11:36<yorick>they're making fiber here, but we can't use it
11:38<mrfrenzy>you can run 10 Gbit up to 55 meters on Cat6
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11:42<appe>holy cow.
11:42<appe>the english inbreeding is getting more or less a fact.
11:42<yorick>mh, if there are trains on a bankrupting company's tracks, and there is no where to teleport them to, should they be sold, or deleted?
11:42<benjamingoodger>only in plymouth, cornwall, wales, somerset, and north scotlant
11:42*appe needs to poo.
11:43<Prof_Frink>benjamingoodger: You missed Norfolk.
11:43<benjamingoodger>yorick: redirected to depot if possible and then sold, otherwise deleted
11:43<benjamingoodger>ah, yes, norfolk
11:44<Prof_Frink>And technically in Wales ad north Scotland it ain't english inbreeding.
11:45<benjamingoodger>this will piss off a tremendous number of people, but wales is part of england still
11:45<Prof_Frink>Yeah, but say that in the wrong pub in Wales...
11:45<benjamingoodger>well, yeah
11:45<benjamingoodger>but that pub is filled with morons
11:46<Prof_Frink>inbred morons.
11:46<CIA-5>OpenTTD: smatz * r14614 /trunk/src/ (tree_cmd.cpp tree_map.h): -Codechange [FS#2423]: GetTreeCount() should behave as its name and documentation imply. Remove unused SetTreeCount() (PhilSophus)
11:46<benjamingoodger>but you're right about scotland; though I think appe was referring to great britain in general, since england/scotland isn't sufficiently different to warrant separation by foreigners
11:46<benjamingoodger>we just have different accents, really
11:46<benjamingoodger>oh, and scots are fatter
11:48<appe>it was rather prejudice
11:48<appe>if used correct
11:49<appe>20:16 < benjamingoodger> this will piss off a tremendous number of people, but wales is part of england still
11:49<appe>20:16 < Prof_Frink> Yeah, but say that in the wrong pub in Wales...
11:49<appe>is that seriosly a problem these days?
11:49<appe>talk about stubborn.
11:49<benjamingoodger>oh yes
11:49<benjamingoodger>welsh people continue setting fire to englishmen's holiday caravans
11:49<appe>patriotism makes people weak.
11:50<appe>especially when living on the same got damn island.
11:50<benjamingoodger>it's not patriotism, it's nationalism
11:50<appe>in my book, that's the same thing.
11:50<Prof_Frink>benjamingoodger: There's nothing wrong with burning caravans.
11:50<benjamingoodger>only when they're blocking the third lane of the M5
11:54<Prof_Frink>Or generally blocking the A5
11:54<appe>the national party had a big demonstration when i was in london
11:54<appe>people in side walks were actually doin seige hail.
11:55<appe>we kind of left.
11:55<benjamingoodger>the BNP?
11:55<benjamingoodger>ah... those wankers
11:55<benjamingoodger>it's illegal to belong to that party if you're a policeman
11:55<benjamingoodger>that's how bad they are
11:55<appe>we have the same issue here in sweden
11:55<appe>the nationalistic partie (word) is on the up-rizing
11:56<appe>since they promise all the racist hillbillys free'r taxes and stuff.
11:56<benjamingoodger>surely people don't take them seriously?
11:56<appe>i bet they beleive them selfs to have good reasons, and i dont think there are any nazies in the partie top
11:56<appe>though, all the nazi fuck heads join them.
11:57<benjamingoodger>I mean, the BNP may be headline-grabbers, but they haven't ever won any seats in parliament
11:57<appe>oh, ok.
11:57<benjamingoodger>or even got close
11:57<appe>they are getting closer here
11:57<appe>but it might be temporary
11:57<appe>or at least i hope so
11:57<appe>i "partie" right?
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11:58<benjamingoodger>byran == party
11:58<benjamingoodger>party and another party == parties
11:58<appe>ah, ok
11:58<benjamingoodger>well, the christian democrats' majority will probably be temporary too :P
11:58<appe>you don't mind me asking, do you?
11:58<benjamingoodger>no, not at all
11:59<benjamingoodger>see, the thing with european democracy is that nobody can do very much in one direction or the other
12:00<benjamingoodger>whereas, in the US, a president (one man!) can do tremendous amounts of things just by himself
12:00<benjamingoodger>and in the UK, the elected party forms the entire government and dictates all law for the entire term
12:01<SmatZ>benjamingoodger: so can in, say, Venezuela :-P
12:01<benjamingoodger>ah, you've spotted my point :P
12:02<benjamingoodger>basically, we choose between two sets of autocrats every five years
12:02<SmatZ>good :)
12:03*appe repairs watches
12:03<benjamingoodger>it's about as democratic as zimbabwe
12:04<benjamingoodger>your server is very, very slow
12:04<benjamingoodger>apparently you need a faster internet connection :P
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12:06<appe>benjamingoodger: it's not mine.
12:06<benjamingoodger>very well
12:06<appe>and the pictures are rather big, i guess.
12:06<benjamingoodger>Prof_Frink: point being?
12:06<Prof_Frink>Think what Kenobi's saying.
12:06<Prof_Frink>clue's in the filename.
12:07<benjamingoodger>why are you drawing my attention to it?
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12:11<benjamingoodger>ah, it's good to feel serotonin flooding into one's brain
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12:14<Fantasya>"appe repairs watches" ;DD
12:14<Fantasya>broken? :D
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12:41<Eddi|zuHause><benjamingoodger> basically, we choose between two sets of autocrats every five years <- that's what you get from a majority representation system instead of a proportional representation system ;)
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>of course, both systems have their flaws
12:41<benjamingoodger>PR doesn't achieve a great deal
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>germany used a purely proportional system between 1919 and 1933
12:42<benjamingoodger>MR achieves a great deal, but generally does it without the consent of the people the achievements affect
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>which made them end up with a certain leader guy
12:42<benjamingoodger>yes, I remember
12:42<benjamingoodger>it worked well until the country hyperinflated
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>no, the hyperinflation was in the beginning, it worked better after the system stabilised, but then the american economy crash happend, and everything was down the drain
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>because practically the whole economy was built by american credits
12:49<benjamingoodger>right, methinks my personal statement is as good as it will get... sending now
12:49<benjamingoodger>oh, bugger
12:49<benjamingoodger>all chat rooms look alike
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, after 1945, they installed kind of a hybrid system in (west) germany
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>where one half of the seats of the "Bundestag" get distributed by majority vote, and the other half by proportional vote
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>and a "5% proportional or 3 majority seats" rule for minimum requirements, to reduce number of (usually radical) tiny parties
12:52<benjamingoodger>that seems to be what sweden lacks
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>afaik there was one case where a party reached 3 majority seats without getting 5% of the proportional votes
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>and suddenly everybody shrieked... "where did this loophole come from?"
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12:54<benjamingoodger>so does it work well?
12:55<benjamingoodger>you seem to still have chancellor merkel, but otherwise germany continues as a truly momentous economy at least
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>well, the system is not perfect either, but the funny situation after the last election was, that neither of the previously dominant sides had a majority, so they had to arrange themselves to work together
12:58<benjamingoodger>well, that's the best we can hope for, I suppose
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>next election is in fall 2009, i think
12:59<benjamingoodger>it's pronounced "autumn"
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>that is an unspeakable word...
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>because you cannot speak two conecutive consonants, unless they belong to two separate syllables
13:01<benjamingoodger>we don't say the n
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>then why write it?
13:02<yorick> because it's english
13:02<benjamingoodger>why write the P or the H in psychology or the E in wake?
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13:02<benjamingoodger>english _thrives_ on nonsensical spellings
13:03<benjamingoodger>in german, "wake" would be spelt "wäk"
13:03<yorick>benjamingoodger: because the P and the H were originally pronounced
13:03<benjamingoodger>no, they were not
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13:04<yorick>yes, because greek does not have a letter pronounced as "ps", or one pronounced as "ch"
13:04<benjamingoodger>well, it has one pronounced as "sy"
13:05<benjamingoodger>and one pronounced "ch"
13:05<yorick>what's the "sy" one?
13:05<yorick>psi is pronounced "ps"
13:06<yorick>"In both Classical and Modern Greek, the letter indicates the combination /ps/ (like in English "lapse")."
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13:06*Swallow warns the world that yorick is right here
13:06<benjamingoodger>well, it has one pronounced "ch" at least
13:07<benjamingoodger>namely, chi
13:07<benjamingoodger>I estimate "ψυχολογος"
13:08<CIA-5>OpenTTD: translators * r14615 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
13:08<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-11-23 18:07:42
13:08<CIA-5>OpenTTD: dutch - 29 changed by MsG (29)
13:08<CIA-5>OpenTTD: finnish - 60 fixed, 2 changed by jpx_ (3), UltimateSephiroth (59)
13:08<CIA-5>OpenTTD: hungarian - 37 changed by oklmernok (37)
13:08<CIA-5>OpenTTD: romanian - 13 fixed, 39 changed by stykat (52)
13:08<CIA-5>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 4 fixed by mad (4)
13:08<Prof_Frink>It's all greek to me
13:08*benjamingoodger deducts Prof_Frink one internet point for making a terrible joke
13:09<benjamingoodger><yorick> greek does not have a letter pronounced as "ps", or one pronounced as "ch"
13:09<benjamingoodger><yorick> psi is pronounced "ps"
13:09<benjamingoodger><benjamingoodger> well, it has one pronounced "ch" at least, namely, chi
13:09<benjamingoodger><yorick> agreed
13:10<yorick>oh look, sarcasm on the internet
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>"the P or the H in psychology" <- the p is actually spoken in german, and 'ch' is one sound, not two separate ones
13:14<yorick>same in dutch ;)
13:14<benjamingoodger>so you go "puh-sy-kologie"?
13:15<yorick>no, psychologie"
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>"ch" is not spoken like "k"
13:15<benjamingoodger>ah, true
13:15<benjamingoodger>I assumed it would become k when entering german
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>"ch" is like a weak version of "sch"
13:15<benjamingoodger>yes, yes, I did study german at school :P
13:16<yorick>no, it became a ch spoken as k when entering english
13:16<benjamingoodger>I was surrounded by morons going "ish bin..." all the time, it was maddening
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
13:16<benjamingoodger>english has about two or three uses for the ch diphthong, you see
13:17<benjamingoodger>it's quite difficult for us
13:17<Prof_Frink>And hown many ways can "ough" be pronounced?
13:17<SmatZ> you may use this for voice synthesis (only czech)
13:17<yorick>dutch has a k-one at the beginning of a word, otherwise it's like german, but a bit stronger
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>it's difficult for us to pronounce "Loch" the way the scottish do
13:17<benjamingoodger>just the one, afaik
13:18<benjamingoodger>by itself
13:18<benjamingoodger>erm... two at least
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13:18<Eddi|zuHause>and then there is "Yacht"
13:18<benjamingoodger>Eddi|zuHause: "yot" :P
13:19<yorick>that's a loanword from dutch
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: in german, the "ch" is spoken differently based on context
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>"ich" is spoken entirely different than "ach"
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>(and both are not spoken like "k", unless you are in berlin)
13:20<yorick>I know
13:20<yorick>I know
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>and then it's highly disputed how "China" is pronounced...
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>oh damn... i have to work on a presentation that i need to hold on tuesday, and i can absolutely not concentrate...
13:22<benjamingoodger>probably because you're allowing yourself to be exposed to foreigners jabbering about pronunciation
13:23<yorick>Eddi: idem
13:23<yorick>but I need to hold it in french
13:26-!-Char [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:26<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: close Konversation
13:26<SmatZ>and don't open it until you are finished with your work :-P
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>i'm afraid there's more to it...
13:33<yorick>whoa, the snow is not melting anymore
13:34<yorick>@seen Bjarni
13:34<@DorpsGek>yorick: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 6 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <ln-> well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case. <-- sort off.... I'm totally tired and I missed everything at uni this week
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14:14<Patrick>that hurt :/
14:14<Patrick>I used planes to cheat my way into big money for an impressive project
14:14<Patrick>paid off my loan by blowing up the sea
14:14<Patrick>10 mil :(
14:15<benjamingoodger>you used planes to cheat?
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14:15<Patrick>well, it's so stupidly easy to make money
14:15<benjamingoodger>and then paid off your bank loan by blowing up the sea?
14:15<Patrick>3 planes brought me in 1.5 million a year.
14:16<Patrick>I consider that too easy
14:16<Patrick>so I use them as an unofficial "loan"
14:16<benjamingoodger>oh, I see
14:16<Patrick>it would be great if your maximum loan changed as a function of company value
14:16<Patrick>like, I've made my first mil, but I want to fund a primary industry or something silly huge
14:16<benjamingoodger>it does
14:17<Patrick>only up to 500l
14:17<Patrick>which is little fish
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14:28<Eddi|zuHause>max loan does not change with company value
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>max loan only changes with inflation
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14:34<benjamingoodger>bugger :(
14:47<@petern>realistic economy? heh
14:47<appe>how does one change the home catalogue for a user in debian?
14:48<benjamingoodger>home catalogue?
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14:50<Sacro>I went to a German Restaurant the other day. Not a pleasant experience.
14:50<Sacro>The starter was saurkraut, and it was bloody awful.
14:50<Sacro>But the wurst was yet to come.
14:52<Sacro>Prof_Frink: true
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15:20<mortal>appe, it's in /etc/passwd iirc
15:20<mortal>second to last field
15:21<mortal>though I'd probably rather add a new user with a specific homedir
15:21<mortal>or symlink the preferred location to your current homedir
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15:35<Swallow>Yorick, are you alive?
15:35<Swallow>I have a comment regarding your feeder share patch
15:36<Swallow>consider the following situation: A runs a train company, and B a local bus company...
15:36<Swallow>A delivers pax to the central station...
15:36<Swallow>the passengers rot there for a month, and then B brings them to the final station
15:37<Swallow>Final payment will now be lower than the transfer credits for A
15:37<Swallow>So B will receive a negative payment :)
15:38<Swallow>I doubt that players will like that
15:38<mrfrenzy>that seems pretty realistic to mee
15:38<yorick>B also would if he'd get the feeder share
15:38<mrfrenzy>if passengers have to wait for a month they would demand compensation
15:38<yorick>negative income animation is shown, but feeder shares are paid
15:39<yorick>anyway, have to go
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15:40<Swallow>mrfrenzy, please talk to belugas about realism
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15:59<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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16:10<appe>oh god
16:10<appe>this en-route thingy is amazing
16:10<appe>i havent used it before
16:10<George>DaleStan: I try to define sound
16:10<George>-1 * 0 11 01 00
16:10<George>-1 ** sound/power.wav
16:10<George>but get the following error
16:10<George>GRFCodec version 0.9.10 - Copyright (C) 2000-2005 by Josef Drexler
16:10<George>Warning: Compression is enabled by default, disable with -u
16:10<George>Encoding in temporary file
16:10<George>Error: Encountered invalid character looking for literal byte.
16:10<George> While reading sprite:2566
16:10<George>What am I doing wrong?
16:13<Vikthor>appe: And that's still nothing compared to cargo destinations ;)
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16:22<appe>Vikthor: cargo destinations?
16:26<appe>this is so fun now when i can use the complexity of it
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16:47<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14616 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2424]: a nearest depot order should be "equal" to the resolved nearest depot order; otherwise we keep resolving the nearest depot order every tick.
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17:05<SmatZ>hello Yexo
17:05<Yexo>hi SmatZ
17:05<benjamingoodger>hello SmatZ
17:05<benjamingoodger>hello yexo
17:06<nicfer>one question, I've been playing multiplayer openttd servers with the score goal mod but I can't rise my company value
17:07<nicfer>how can rise it?
17:07<nicfer>can I*
17:07<benjamingoodger>making profit is a good way to start
17:08<nicfer>I tried to make profit by too many ways but it doesn't go higher than 1
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17:08<benjamingoodger>you need to make enough to pay off your loan first
17:09<nicfer>someones managed to make profit even with loans
17:09<appe>here you go
17:09<appe>please help me find the "train is lost" errors.
17:09<appe>and feel free to give tip
17:09<benjamingoodger>you can make profit with a loan
17:10<benjamingoodger>but you need to have more money than your loan before the company value will rise above 1
17:10*appe own company holds 100% at the moment.
17:10<benjamingoodger>my stomach hurts :(
17:10<appe>wich is not so weird, maby.
17:19<@petern>which, maybe?
17:20<benjamingoodger>methinks his own comment
17:26<appe>petern: ah, thank you.
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17:36<appe>im having trouble here.
17:36<appe>i have alot of trains that empty iron ore at station 1, and a big ass train that collects it all and sends it to a steel mill
17:37<appe>it fills up, and leaves everything on the station at the steel mill
17:37<appe>but it costs
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17:37<benjamingoodger>set the lot of trains to transfer and leave empty
17:37<appe>they do
17:37<benjamingoodger>set the big-ass train to unload, not to transfer
17:37<benjamingoodger>otherwise the cargo just sits there
17:38<appe>tranfer and leave empty on the steel mills station?
17:38<+glx>for the transfer station
17:38<appe>but not leave empty?
17:39<appe>that cant be correct?
17:39<benjamingoodger>the little trains full load at the mines
17:39<benjamingoodger>transfer and leave empty at the big station
17:39<benjamingoodger>the big train full loads at the big station
17:39<benjamingoodger>unloads at the mill
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17:40<+glx>use a simple "goto" at the mill (it will unload if accepted)
17:41<appe>still costs.
17:41<appe>let me give you a save.
17:41<benjamingoodger>I'm on an old version, sorry :(
17:41<appe>oh, ok.
17:41<appe>there it is.
17:41<AgentLeMan>hello everybody
17:41<appe>the issue is train 82.
17:42<appe>and excuse the mess..
17:42<benjamingoodger>hello m. le Man
17:43<AgentLeMan>hello benjamin, the good german ;o)
17:44<AgentLeMan>uhm.. on asidenote let me start again
17:44<AgentLeMan>hello benjamin :o)
17:44<appe>works now.
17:44<benjamingoodger>I haven't been to sleep since we first had this conversation
17:45<appe>get some, damnit.
17:45<benjamingoodger>I have been up for nearly 33 hours
17:45<appe>but seriosly
17:45<AgentLeMan>hm, wasnt there a key, with which we can focus the mainwindow on a vehicle? so the vehicle moves the mainwindow, so to speak?
17:46<benjamingoodger>bloody hell --- 4.4% unemployment predicted for scotland
17:46<appe>i want to leave it for the steel mill to be processed
17:46<appe>now, it just tranfer the iron ore TO the steel mill station, and not to the steel mill.
17:46<appe>if i simply use "unload" instead of "transfer and leave empty" it costs me instead
17:46<appe>i cant see the problem
17:46<Yexo>AgentLeMan: hold control while you click on the "eye"-icon in the vehicle window
17:46<benjamingoodger>if you use unload it's actually doing it correctly
17:47<appe>but im not receiving any money for it, it costs me.
17:47<benjamingoodger>the way it's represented is a bit weird
17:47<AgentLeMan>what was the beginning, your first question, appe?
17:47<AgentLeMan>Yexo thank you :o)
17:47<benjamingoodger>but over the course of the whole thing, it's making profit
17:48<appe>AgentLeMan: i have a bunch of trains sending iron ore to transfer station "1". a big ass train then collects it and sends it to station "2", wich is the steel mill. i want it to leave it for production on the mill.
17:49<appe>the train has this route: Station 1: Transfer and take cargo (the iron ore) -> Station 2: Transfer and leave empty (to the steel mill).
17:49<appe>if using "Transfer and leave empty" for Station 2, it leaves the cargo on the station, and it just sits there. the steel mill doesnt process it.
17:49<AgentLeMan>appe, you was here already i guess :
17:49<AgentLeMan>-was +were
17:50<appe>if using "Unload" it unloads all the goods, but doesnt bring any income what so ever, it costs me money.
17:50<appe>and i dont understand it.
17:50<appe>although, if i unload it the steel mill processes it, and then the steel may be re-sent
17:51<appe>what i dont understand is why the big ass iron ore train doesnt get payed.
17:51<benjamingoodger>you have made profit somewhere along the way, it's just inadequately represented
17:52<AgentLeMan>°follws train #85 while rolling a cigarette°
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17:54<appe>benjamingoodger: so, it has been paid, so to speak?
17:54<benjamingoodger>_you_ have been paid
17:54<benjamingoodger>the train will not show a loss, either
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17:54<AgentLeMan>appe, its station #85-> station #59 -> station #82, right?
17:55<benjamingoodger>beyond that, it's all completely random
17:55<appe>AgentLeMan: yes.
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17:55<appe>or wait
17:55<AgentLeMan>well, i think, it is ;o)
17:55<appe>benjamingoodger: the train shows a massive loss.
17:55<benjamingoodger>well, it will be prevented from complaining about it, at least
17:56<appe>AgentLeMan: what? train 82 only use two stations.
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17:57<AgentLeMan>station #85 <L-train #85-U> station #59 <L-train #82-U> station #82 °winks°
17:59<benjamingoodger>good night
18:00<AgentLeMan>its basically the annotation for the used stations, trains and orders for the topic-relevant objects.
18:00<AgentLeMan>good night, benjamin
18:00<AgentLeMan>and, appe, theres a huge drawback
18:00<AgentLeMan>"To enable feeder services, go to Configure Patches, go to Stations and make sure "Deliver cargo to a station only when there is a demand" is set to OFF."
18:01<AgentLeMan>IF that still is valid.
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18:06<AgentLeMan>"hold control while you click on the "eye"-icon in the vehicle window" / that is supposed to work only in the closest zoom-mode, right? ( at least it works like that in the latest nightly )
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18:12<appe>i solved it
18:12<appe>i didnt have enough iron ore
18:12<nicfer>is posted in the forums the score mod in mp?
18:12<appe>to the transfer station
18:13<appe>as the amount of iron ore increased, the trains losses decreased.
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18:18<AgentLeMan>and yes, its a big mess! ;o)
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18:24<AgentLeMan>appe ?
18:25<appe>i still dont get it
18:25<appe>the train does go minus.
18:25<appe>let me give you a new save.
18:25<AgentLeMan>train #82 you mean?
18:25<Aali>appe: what are you trying to do?
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18:25<AgentLeMan>Aali, one way feederservice
18:25<appe>Aali: im trying to get a transfer train to go +.
18:26<appe>all the little trains driving iron ore to the transfer station has a + income
18:26<appe>and the train that collects the steel from the steel mill to the factory
18:26<appe>but not the train that collects iron ore from the transfer station, and brings it for process at the steel mill.
18:27<appe>on the latest save (see url) it's train #82 and #91
18:27<AgentLeMan>appe, as i see it train #82 makes a negative profit, because it has to transfer all that stuff from sooo many stations, so often, it only transfers stuff from only a few, so the other cargo lays there for ages around.
18:27<appe>the iron ore on the big station lies to long?
18:27<appe>ah, ok
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18:28<Aali>appe: get rid of the unload order
18:28<Aali>just use a regular goto order
18:28<AgentLeMan>and... if there lays cargo from 20 stations, 82 will only load cargo from 5 or so, so it can be, that cargo from some stations never gets to the targetstation
18:29<appe>oh, ok
18:29<appe>if i add another train (hence emptying the tranfer station more often) i can get better results?
18:30<AgentLeMan>oooh appe!
18:30*appe add four clones
18:30<AgentLeMan>hm, no, sorry, i thought, train #56 ALSO transports ore
18:30<Aali>this is just how feeder shares work
18:30<Aali>you are making money
18:31<appe>shit, i have to clone alot of trains
18:31<Aali>but the transfer trains get too much money
18:31<Aali>so the large trains "lose" money to make up for it
18:31<appe>ah, ok
18:32<appe>a switch in my head went on
18:32<appe>the logic falls into place.
18:32<Nite_Owl>Feeder lines = short final destination lines = long(er)
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18:34<AgentLeMan>but isnt it also written, that only the last train makes the profit?
18:35<Aali>you don't get anything unless you actually deliver the cargo
18:35*appe funds new iron ore mines
18:36<Aali>but you still get transfer money
18:36<AgentLeMan>appe, you could make it a bit faster, if you use a two-way-tunnel for train #82, so it doesnt get botherd by the graintrains
18:36<Aali>(not real money)
18:36<AgentLeMan>Aali, but thanks also, i was all the time confused about the negative income, makes totally sense now
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18:37<Aali>its quite confusing indeed, but as you can't know what the final profit will be, its hard to "fix"
18:38<Aali>appe: you could make it a bit faster by getting rid of all those awfully narrow corners :P
18:39<Aali>2x45 curves are awful and 90 degree curves shouldn't even be allowed :P
18:41<AgentLeMan>im saying
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>only use 360° turns, they are the most superior ;)
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>shh... not so loud in the middle of the night
18:44<AgentLeMan>°slams hammer on letters°
18:45<appe>im way to lazy to fix it now
18:45<AgentLeMan>appe: the #82 train is very important
18:45<appe>train 82?
18:45<appe>thats a normal iron ore shipper.
18:46<AgentLeMan>i changed it, so it now has 1 rail, an additional stationpart for itself, which leads into a long tunnel towards its goal, there are oinly 2 curves, which are like 30°
18:46<appe>oh, ok.
18:47<Aali>30 degree curves? what game are you playing? :D
18:47<AgentLeMan>that way, it wont be bothered by #56 and #81
18:47<AgentLeMan>Aali, okok, its more like 45°
18:48<AgentLeMan>but also appe, with that tunnel, you can basically make #82 infinitely long
18:48<Aali>anyway, what matters is how far apart those 45 degree curves are
18:48<appe>i dont get it
18:48<appe>82 doesnt have to be long
18:48<appe>and it doesnt have to be perfect
18:49<appe>since its a two truck iron ore transfer train
18:49<AgentLeMan>but it looks nicer :oD and is less messy
18:50<AgentLeMan>although, that saved game has only a minimal maximum (?) amount of prettyness to achieve, its just a bit much all in all
18:51<appe>i wish i did a bigger map.
18:51<AgentLeMan>and i officially vow, i wont ever switch to those fast trains . im getting dizzy by the fluttering :o(
18:52<appe>thats the thing i like
18:52<appe>i want it to look like a processor running.
18:52<Aali>your processor must be very slow :/
18:52<appe>time to get some sleep
18:52<AgentLeMan>bye appew
18:53<AgentLeMan>Aali °grins° aye, im feeling kinda the urge to take some 12 hours and rework the whole thing
18:54<Aali>nah, flatworld and no grfs, i can't play like that anymore
18:55<Aali>its too ugly
18:55<AgentLeMan>well... waht about this :
18:55<AgentLeMan>destory stationn #59, make a huge volcano, then try to make profit
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18:56<Aali>still waaaaay too easy to make gazillions of cash
18:56<AgentLeMan>okay, next option
18:56<AgentLeMan>do it with... planes only!
18:57<Brianetta>My server settings make experienced players go bankrupt
18:58<AgentLeMan>Brianetta, experienced players? or just... uber-rich players?
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18:58<Aali>AgentLeMan: assuming there's pax to move (i didn't check) that would just make things easier
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18:58<SmatZ>rich players don't bankrupt
18:58<AgentLeMan>Aali, what is pax?
18:59<AgentLeMan>oh, no, theres not even 1 city
18:59<AgentLeMan>uhm, wrong, there is 1
18:59<AgentLeMan>203 people
18:59<+glx>1 is required
18:59<AgentLeMan>29 max pax
19:00<Aali>so you could probably still make some money with one plane or a helicopter
19:00<Brianetta>AgentLeMan: Experienced. Uber-rich players are not bankrupt; kind of a contradiction.
19:00<AgentLeMan>Aali, i meant, trash all trains, use planes for the cargo that is nonpaxish
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19:01<AgentLeMan>Brianetta, nono :o) you said, you MAKE them go bankcrupt, i thought og some kind of limit, from which it will all get much much harder to make profit
19:02<AgentLeMan>but.. how do you decide/judge, who IS experienced? number of used signals?
19:03<Brianetta>I don't decide
19:03<Brianetta>and it's not automatic
19:03<Brianetta>it's just bloody hard to get rich
19:03<AgentLeMan>uah :o)
19:03<Brianetta>"My server settings make experienced players go bankrupt" in the sense of "children make parents go mad"
19:03<Brianetta>Not all parents
19:03<Brianetta>just parents
19:04<AgentLeMan>thats what i like about the uk renewal trainset : normally, ( as far as i see ) the running costs/profit ratio is 1:10. in ukrs it is more like 1:32
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19:04<AgentLeMan>1:3, later then 1:2
19:05<AgentLeMan>in appes scenario it is evem 1:20
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19:17<thomas001>hi, i run a passenger service between two town which looks like this: Town A --- long train connection --> station X with no town besides it --- short ferry connection -> town B. i've choosen transfer for the train at station X,and i earn good money there. and i've chosen unload for the ferry at town B,but there i loose money upon every ferry arrival. why?
19:18<AgentLeMan>gee, its really time for cargodest ;o)
19:18<Aali>cargodest doesn't solve this problem
19:18<AgentLeMan>huh? :o(((
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>thomas001: the problem is that the ferry is much slower than the train
19:19<Aali>it gets worse, actually, since transfers will happen implicitly
19:19<thomas001>i need 2 stations btw X for A->B and Y for B->A ...perhaps this whould be solved by cargodest
19:19<AgentLeMan>i hought, it would solve the twoway transferfeedersystem
19:19<thomas001>Eddi|zuHause, where is the problem there?
19:19<Aali>it does, but it doesn't solve the negative income issue
19:19<AgentLeMan>Aali, oh, thats now oaky for me
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>thomas001: the train gets an estimated income on the expectations that the passengers travel on with the same speed
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>then the ferry travels at much lower speed, so it must pay the difference between expected and real income
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19:20<thomas001>so this problem will be solved when faster ferries will be available?
19:21<AgentLeMan>hm, but.. when they are on the ferry, doesnt get the estiomation calculated anew, so when they again board the train, its all +-0?
19:21<SmatZ>or use slower trains :-P
19:21<thomas001>is it the correct way to run such a transfer service or should the train just unload?
19:21<Aali>thomas001: you're still making money
19:21<Aali>but the train gets too much money and the ferry has to make up for that
19:22<SmatZ>use transfer
19:22<thomas001>Aali, poor little ferry
19:22<SmatZ>at each transfer point, the value of cargo is computed as if it was transferred from original station to this destination
19:23<SmatZ>sum of all transfer shares == final cargo value
19:23<thomas001>how does the game know about the destination of the cargo when it arrives at a feeder station?
19:23<SmatZ>so if you unloaded cargo at your transfer station, you would get more money than now
19:23<SmatZ>it doesn't know final station
19:24<SmatZ>it knows current station and station of origin
19:24<SmatZ>feeder share aren't real money
19:24<SmatZ>it is not added to your bank ballance
19:24<AgentLeMan>thats why the last vehicle adjusts the whole profit?
19:24<SmatZ>not only the last
19:25<thomas001>can you please explain why i whould earn more money when just unloading...i don't get it
19:25<Nite_Owl>Need to feed - later all
19:25<AgentLeMan>uhm, sorry, i meant "makes"
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19:26<AgentLeMan>btw. is this : still valid all?
19:26<SmatZ>thomas001: you don't get more money, just feeder won't be 'in red'
19:27<Patrick>ok, riddle me this
19:27<Patrick>I want to do magic
19:27<SmatZ>AgentLeMan: seems outdated
19:27<Patrick>I want to take 50 trains and make each of them longer
19:27<AgentLeMan>SmatZ ok :o(
19:28<Aali>Patrick: you're screwed
19:28<Aali>you'll have to do it manually
19:28<Patrick>my current plan is to send them all to a depot, sell them all, and rebuild the fleet
19:28<Char>even autoreplace wont work, right? ;)
19:28<Patrick>or, and this is the cunning bit
19:28<Patrick>I think this'll work:
19:28<Char>or can you use autoreplace to replace whole trains?
19:28<Patrick>autoreplace a dualhead to a singlehead
19:28<Patrick>and make it keep the same length, it might add an extra cart
19:29<thomas001>and cargodest is some patch which simplifies setting up cargo destinations? will it get into main openttd somewhen soon? i dislike the idea playing patched games ;-)
19:29<Patrick>and then replace it the way back
19:29<Aali>it doesn't say keep the same length
19:29<Aali>its only wagon removal
19:29<Aali>never adds anything
19:29<Char>thomas001: how do you mean, simplify?
19:30<thomas001>Char, for example that i do not need to stations any more for a feeder service in two directions
19:30<Aali>thomas001: cargodest keeps an internal routing network based on your vehicles orders, in effect, cargo wants to go somewhere specific and routes itself through your network
19:31<Char>thomas001: i guess cargodest is not what you are looking for ;)
19:31<Char>what happens if i only build point-to-point routes?
19:31<Aali>thomas001: so no, you will not need two stations for a feeder service in two directions
19:31<Patrick>Char: your map gets very clogged
19:31<AgentLeMan>°grins° thought : a depot sitting right before at a station, if the train has that as order ( and a special re-length order ) train goes in, and the depot looks into the targetloadstation, how much cargo there is, then the depot adjusts the traincars, so everything that is NOW there, can be loaded. next time, when less cargo is there, the same
19:31<Aali>since the cargo wont board a train that doesn't go to its destination
19:31<Char>Patrick: yeah i know, but i dont need any hubs :P. what happens to cargodest?
19:31<Patrick>AgentLeMan: heh, but platform length?
19:32<Patrick>the cargo panics
19:32<AgentLeMan>patrick, 7 tiles should be enough for most, i think
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19:32<thomas001>Aali, so the cargo doesn't know the train feeds a train which goes to its destination?
19:32<AgentLeMan><--- not a fan of those uberstationscenarios
19:33*Char imagines panicking oil
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19:33<Aali>thomas001: in regular ottd, any cargo will be loaded into any train that can take it
19:33<thomas001>Aali, and with cargodest?
19:33<Char>and unloaded at any station it is "wanted"
19:33<Aali>in cargodest, cargo packets want to go somewhere and will not board a train that doesn't take it closer to its destination
19:34<Char>thomas001: your cargo decides "i want to go from munich heights to erfurt lower"
19:34<AgentLeMan>Char, what about emotional sensitive ectoplasm? ;o)
19:34<thomas001>closer in which sense?
19:34<Char>AgentLeMan: i never met any, i think
19:34<Char>thomas001: in a spatial sense, i guess
19:35<AgentLeMan>Char, if so : be nice and kind and polite! and DONT pour it into toasters!
19:35<thomas001>and how does my cargo know which destination it should travel to?
19:36<Aali>thomas001: if you have a route from A to B, cargo will choose that route over one that goes A->X->B
19:36<Aali>but if A->X-B is the only way, it will go there
19:36<thomas001>Aali, imagine passenger service A->B and A->C, how to passengers at A decide where to travel?
19:36<Char>which kind of ectoplasma do you refer to?
19:36<Char>Ectoplasm is said to be produced by physical mediums when in a trance state. This material is excreted as a gauze-like substance from orifices on the medium's body and spiritual entities are said to drape this substance over their nonphysical body, enabling them to interact in our physical universe.
19:37<Aali>depends on what service you're providing
19:37<Char>(from wiki)
19:37<AgentLeMan>Char wow.#
19:37<thomas001>Aali, passenger transport i think ;)
19:37<Aali>but they'll probably want to go from A to B and A to C
19:37<Char>AgentLeMan: ?
19:37<AgentLeMan>Char : wow.
19:38<Aali>yes, but planes are better than trains (or the other way around, can't remember)
19:38<Char>AgentLeMan: why?
19:38<thomas001>Aali, so they'll enter the first train that arrives?
19:38<AgentLeMan>and if youre not a medium? thats then called.. sweat?
19:38<Char>i have no idea
19:38<Char>the german wiki says more
19:38<Aali>thomas001: no, they already know where they want to go when they spawn at the station
19:38<AgentLeMan>why? because it "seems" plausible, hence : wow
19:38<Char>it tells that ectoplasma is supposed to be grey-white and foamy
19:39<AgentLeMan>so youre train becomes a spawnkiller °snickers°
19:39<thomas001>Aali, hmm,that sounds nice...will i have more passenger in a big town that want to travel to another big town than to a village? ;)
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19:40<AgentLeMan>Char "spiritual entities are said to drape this substance over their nonphysical body, enabling them to interact in our physical universe." < reminds me of mr. montgomery burns where he got overmedicated and roamed the woods
19:41<Char>i misspelled
19:41<AgentLeMan>i referred thought to pink ectoplasm... ( movie : ghostbusters II )
19:41<Char>and got to
19:41<Aali>thomas001: not really, passenger routes aren't balanced so that if X passengers go from A to B, X passengers must go back to A
19:41<AgentLeMan>Aali oO
19:41<Aali>but stuff like that will probably be implemented after its included in trunk
19:41<Patrick>so I can just ship everyone in the world
19:41<AgentLeMan>its an exchange?
19:41<Patrick>to an oil rig
19:42<Char>thomas001: this site ( might be slightly outdated, but looking at the pictures might answer quite some of your questions
19:42<Char>look at the "station cargo list" pics
19:42<Aali>Patrick: sure
19:42<thomas001>thanks Char
19:42<Char>AgentLeMan: didnt see that movie
19:42<Aali>in regular ottd, you can do whatever you want to those poor people
19:43<AgentLeMan>Patrick, im wondering... if you do that and shove 20k pax to an oilrig... will you get more... "oil" out of it? ;oP
19:43<Aali>in cargodest, they will only go to that oil rig if there's nowhere else to go
19:43<Char>like dump them all in some fucked-up place at one end of the map for the sole reason that its the farthest place to go to
19:43<AgentLeMan>i mean.. they must end "somewhere"
19:43<AgentLeMan>at breakfast "mummy? the margerine smells like grandpa!"
19:44<Char>AgentLeMan: is that a philosophical question? :P
19:44<Char>AgentLeMan: well, i dont know.... but MY margerine is not made from that kind of oil
19:44<AgentLeMan>Char well... as it is now, all people just want to "get the hell outta here"
19:45<Char>with no specific destination
19:45<Char>i should stop eating chocolate
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19:46<AgentLeMan>Char: okok. at car-repairstation : "sir, your car smells like teen spirit"
19:46<AgentLeMan>ergo : oilrigs, if fed with enough passangers create/produce ectoplasm
19:47<Char>repair station guy: "damn, shouldnt have had my girlfriend in YOUR car...."
19:47<Char>what kind of wagons do you transport ectoplasm in?
19:48<AgentLeMan>oh, thats easy
19:48<Char>remember, its grey-white
19:48<Char>and foamy
19:48<Char>and - where do you transport it to?
19:52<AgentLeMan>its basically a cage, like for birds, connected to a powersource, farraday-cagelike, powered by a high-frequency ionic charger. a second device creates a magnetometric field around the cage, to strengthen it. and it has of course to be made of a specific metal. in case you get sued by villages for "making people think, you transport aliens ( because of the color ) to some gulag, you can drape over it a black blanket. and of course, your target
19:52<Char>too long message :P
19:52<AgentLeMan>wahts missing?
19:52<Char>and now you have to retype that stuff
19:53<Char>"and of course, your target" is the last words
19:53<AgentLeMan>and why do "i" not see the cut-off?
19:53<Char>i guess the rest got cropped?
19:53<AgentLeMan>and of course, your target of choice is... hmmm any governmental building in a given city. because most of the dead want to haunt such places.
19:53<Char>sounds like fun
19:53<Char>you can write the ectoplasm branch for openttd :P
19:54<AgentLeMan>sure... until the powersource fails......
19:54<AgentLeMan>and then we even have a new katastrophe
19:56<AgentLeMan>but..honestly Char...
19:56<Aali>you could do that with a grf
19:56<AgentLeMan>i rather want to write a roleplaying system for openttd
19:56<AgentLeMan>so you can take over one of those passangers, evolve with it as it travels hte land
19:57<AgentLeMan>wait... even better : 3D-openttd! °snickers insanely°
19:59<AgentLeMan>Aali, my ethical restraints forbid to supply an oilrig with teenagers
19:59<SmatZ>AgentLeMan: a little bit working, but would need a lot of work... and I am not really sure if this is the way OTTD should evolve
19:59<AgentLeMan>SmatZ, it was really really an insane joke.
20:00<AgentLeMan>you mean landlayers.
20:00<AgentLeMan>i meant full 3D. ;o/
20:00<SmatZ>there was one... conversion for mobile phones
20:00<DaleStan>George_: Most likely, you've set Info version 4 or 5. Info versions 4 and 5 don't have includes.
20:01<SmatZ>I don't remember its name now
20:01<AgentLeMan>landlayers would be actually nice, if not even needed for subways (? )
20:02<SmatZ>with current tile system, you have only one layer of tiles
20:02<AgentLeMan>SmatZ, well, if you need someone to test stuff...
20:02<SmatZ>tunnels and bridges may look like as an exception, but they are represented only by their two ends
20:03<AgentLeMan>i worked just recently 4 hours just to find out, why a train reverses and the other one not
20:03<Char>not like in locomotion
20:03<Char>then again
20:03<Char>the locomotion stuff sucks
20:03<AgentLeMan>also i tried to find out, why heliports explode so darnly
20:03<SmatZ>explode? heliports?
20:03<Char>heliports explode?
20:03<AgentLeMan>locomotion? °snickers° what a poor excuse to make money
20:04<Char>i didnt like it either
20:04<Char>apart from that, i failed in like the 9th level or so
20:04<AgentLeMan>well, i put in a well working city a heliport and it has masses of passengers after a short time
20:04<AgentLeMan>Char, i just took a quick look and trashed it
20:04<AgentLeMan>same wit hthe toher "new" ttd... uhm.. railroads or so
20:05<AgentLeMan>"the other"
20:06<AgentLeMan>and... as more and more games come out/are converted to the consoles, it also gets more simple. "megamicromanagament" ( ;o) ) is out. games are advertised with "gamehours needed/included"...
20:07<AgentLeMan>( personal opinion, not proven fact )
20:08*SmatZ is happy with old games
20:09<AgentLeMan>which reminds me... hadnt looked at the new carrier command since some time
20:13<Char>which reminds me of the game with the coolest exit words i have ever seen :P
20:15<AgentLeMan>oh, game with the cooolest deathsound/sentence? battlefield 1942 - in a dying down voice "nääächstes mal" °laughs°
20:16<Char>"Congratulations. You are now the bridge building champion. People now look at you with respect and admiration. Your bridges have brought peace and joy to the earth, Iowa, and the moon. Happy days are ahead of you."
20:16<Char>"Visit the Bridge Builder website for contests, unpdates, and the meaning of life (coming soon)."
20:17<Char>the meaning of life still isnt online, bte
20:17<AgentLeMan>we should gather money to buy their sourcecode
20:18<AgentLeMan>then, if you want to build a bridge in openttd, that "bridge builder" gets started as a minigame
20:19<AgentLeMan>and Char?
20:19<AgentLeMan>"the meaning of life still isnt online" it really isnt. and i dont mean that website...
20:22<Char>that game is free
20:22<Char>i guess you could get their sourcecode if you asked them nicely
20:22<Char>besides: lol
20:23<Char>another question
20:23<Char>how do you guys manage your music?
20:23<Char>it seems to me that i got way too much music
20:23<Char>however, with storage space being that damn cheap
20:23<AgentLeMan>manage? i store it. done.
20:23<Char>i see no reason to delete any
20:23<Char>but i need to get some kind of sorting into it :/
20:23<AgentLeMan>no reason either to burn it
20:23<AgentLeMan>( on discs i mean )
20:24<Char>if i wanted to burn it on usual CDs
20:24<Char>it would take a while
20:24<AgentLeMan>but what i really lok out for is a player that doesnt crash with 20K files
20:24<Char>does winamp do that?
20:24<Char>how many files do you have?
20:25<AgentLeMan>AND has a nice, comfy palylistmanagment
20:25<AgentLeMan>winamp, oh please...
20:25<Char>winamp doesnt?
20:25<Char>whats wrong with it?
20:26<AgentLeMan>i just dont like it. i use since 5 years or so a player im totally satisifed with. it just wont work with many files.
20:27<AgentLeMan>and i prefer to have just a tiny bar as controlGUI, winamps is TOO tiny.
20:27<AgentLeMan>also i dont need its internetradio/tv-aspect
20:28<AgentLeMan>its really just a matter of preference. im not into flamewars.
20:31<Char>which player do you use?
20:32<Char>you know, i am not like a winamp fanboy or sth, i just wanted to know what you think is wrong with it ;)
20:33<Char>and if there is a better player, i am always happy to know
20:33<AgentLeMan>there isnt womething "wrong" with it
20:34<AgentLeMan>i just prefer it sleek and fit to the purpose, thats why i use the quintessential player with a special "skin", which, compared to winamp also changes the form of the gui, not just like laying a picture over it
20:37<Char>i guess the newer skins do something similar in winamp
20:37<Char>but i am not sure
20:37<Char>doesnt matter anyway ;)
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21:24<Administrador>Tired of black people? Join us at and learn more about these feral simian beasts! This is not a skinhead or white supremacist organization. Asians, Jews, Mexicans, and any non-congoloid ethnic group is welcome to unite. HUMANS vs NIGGGERS
21:25<AgentLeMan>whats this then?
21:26<Char>feral simian breasts?!?
21:26<AgentLeMan>someone ban, burn, castrate, tar and feather, drown and shoot that bastard please?
21:26<Char>in that order?
21:27-!-Fuco [] has quit [Quit: Quit]
21:27<AgentLeMan>i dont care, just eradicate
21:27<Char>we'd need an op here
21:27<Administrador>Tired of black people? Join us at and learn more about these feral simian beasts! This is not a skinhead or white supremacist organization. Asians, Jews, Mexicans, and any non-congoloid ethnic group is welcome to unite. HUMANS vs NIGGGERS
21:28<Char>i woud say
21:28<Char>humans vs Administrador
21:28<AgentLeMan>well... it seems, no one cares.....
21:28-!-Administrador [~Administr@] has quit [autokilled: This host violated network policy. If you feel an error has been made, please contact, thanks. (2008-11-24 02:28:57)]
21:29<AgentLeMan>nifty... late. but, nifty
21:30<AgentLeMan>"the amount of intelligence on earth is limited. the amount of people not" seems again to be proven true.
21:32<AgentLeMan>ah well, im off to bed then, have a nice day and/or night all :o)
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23:24<George_>DaleStan: Info version 7
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 24 00:00:18 2008