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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-11-24

---Logopened Mon Nov 24 00:00:18 2008
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00:30<DaleStan>George_: Then the reader isn't choking on that line. 0.9.10 doesn't support all extensions. There should be a later one in the grfcodec thread.
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02:37<AgentLeMan>morning :o)
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03:25<AgentLeMan>ball on ramp?
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03:26<@Celestar>AgentLeMan: no, a head and a waving hand :P
03:27<AgentLeMan>oh, goodbye then, Celestar
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03:28*Celestar pokes AgentLeMan with a blunt spoon
03:29<AgentLeMan>°sprawls apart in many bleeding gibs, which bounce away on the floor°
03:30<Gekz>Fallout 3.
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03:31<@Celestar>Star Trek VI :ÜP
03:31<AgentLeMan>fallout 0
03:32<Gekz>wasteland sucked.
03:32<Gekz>based on what I've read, it was boring
03:32<Gekz>8bit games were not awesome
03:32<Gekz>no matter how much anyone would like to believe it
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03:34<AgentLeMan>ah, yes
03:34<AgentLeMan>we are of all stupid people with no taste
03:36<Gekz>AgentLeMan: openttd isn't 8bit.
03:36<AgentLeMan>°rolls eyes°
03:36<Gekz>if you're going to emote, do it right.
03:36<Gekz>openttd isn't 8bit.
03:36<AgentLeMan>°doublerolls eyes°
03:37<Gekz>You're a silly frenchman aren't you
03:38<@petern>some "8 bit" games definitely were awesome
03:39<Gekz>petern: define
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03:41<Gekz>petern: seriously, you cant say that without saying a game that is 8bit and awesome
03:42<@petern>repton :D
03:43<Gekz>elite wasnt good on 8bit
03:43<Gekz>it was terrible
03:44<Gekz>the Amiga version was good though
03:44<AgentLeMan>°deletes all his c64 stuff,m because hes now judged as uncool and worthless°
03:44<Gekz>c64 is unworthy.
03:44<AgentLeMan>yes, master.
03:44<Gekz>damn straight.
03:45<Gekz><3 Baldurs Gate
03:45<@petern>firetrack was awesome :D
03:45<@petern>gonna be late for work now :(
03:46<AgentLeMan>still an unstressy day to you then, pter
03:46<Patrick>bubble bobble on the c64
03:46<AgentLeMan>patrick, YAY
03:46<Patrick>took me like fucking 12 years to beat it
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03:49<@Celestar>hm ..
03:49<@Celestar>I find it interesting how little time a stopover in an ICE3 costs
03:49<@Celestar>on a 300km/h Track
03:50<mrfrenzy>well, they have many doors ;)
03:51<AgentLeMan>Patrick, i liked elite as copilot, not so much stress with thargoids, just well, my boss, the pilot (played it with a firend in coop) at some day freaked out, because i was too triggerhappy on the e-bombs
03:51<AgentLeMan>morning planetmaker
03:52<@Celestar>morning planetmaker
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03:53<planetmaker>:) I hope you all had a nice weekend - just like me
03:53<planetmaker>.uhh... it's snowing... again
03:54<planetmaker>So I guess I was lucky I took the train yesterday :)
03:54<planetmaker>even though I arrived 2 hours late...
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03:55<planetmaker>all those broken ICE3 are a real pain... :S
03:55<planetmaker>ICE xy is canceled. Replacement IC ab is 30 minutes late...
03:56<planetmaker>Next announcement then was "Regionalbahn 22355 is 25 minutes late due to engine damage"... haha...
03:58<AgentLeMan>did you informed the stationofficer, their serviceintervals may have been set to % instead of days?
04:00<planetmaker>:D would probably been have good ;)
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04:01<planetmaker>at least they were surprisingly friendly.
04:02<AgentLeMan>i love how they sometimes jooke around when making the next station or the end of the trip known via the interkom
04:03<@Celestar>planetmaker: the broken ones are the ICE-T
04:04<planetmaker>ok, maybe those. I'm not sure what kind of ICE travels between Munich and Berlin :)
04:04<@Celestar>used them
04:04<@Celestar>I really need to decide whether to try the TGV from Munich to Paris or not
04:04<planetmaker>I would have yesterday, too, but... alas.
04:04<planetmaker>but sure I did when I still lived in Jena :)
04:05<@Celestar>Jena Paradies :D
04:05<planetmaker>hehe. Yeah :)
04:05<planetmaker>In summer it's actually quite nice there.
04:05<planetmaker>Kind of city park.
04:05<planetmaker>nice place for BBQ
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04:05<@Celestar>I quite agree
04:06<@Celestar>had friends in Lobeda
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04:10<planetmaker>if it is Lobeda - that's a nice place. If it's Lobeda West or Lobeda Ost ... they're not the nicest place on Earth. But cheap flats out there...
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04:18<@Celestar>and no, it's not a nice place :P
04:18<@Celestar>hence they moved away
04:19<@Celestar>SpaceX did they first full-length test firing of the Falcon 9 LV \o/
04:20<appe>you have way to many trains when a 1024x256 lags.
04:21<planetmaker>he, that news about SpaceX sounds good :)
04:21<@Celestar>$35 million 10 ton launcher
04:21<@Celestar>man rated
04:21<@Celestar>engine-out capability on the first stage
04:21<@Celestar>reusable first stage
04:21<planetmaker>hehe. Man-rated is to be seen, I'd say ;)
04:22<@Celestar>man-rating is a design process
04:22<planetmaker>what's the exact definition of that term actually?
04:22<@Celestar>I'm not quite sure about the requirements
04:22<@Celestar>the ATV is man-rated for example
04:22<@Celestar>the Ariane 5 is man-ratable
04:22<@Celestar>appe: man-rating means a space vehicle is suitable and certified for carrying human beings
04:23<appe>i thought it was a measure of cost*weight
04:23<appe>manly man man vehichle.
04:24<planetmaker>hm... thx. Me goes looking at wiki...
04:24<@Celestar>planetmaker: about ?
04:24<thingwath>human being is, say, 100 kg, that is not so much, isn't it?
04:24<@Celestar>no it's not
04:24<@Celestar>but most human beings need life support :P
04:24<appe>life support weighs in a bit more then the actual weight of the human
04:25<@Celestar>plus consumables
04:25<@Celestar>about 1kg per man-day
04:25<planetmaker>about "man rated". But wiki doesn't know more than you expressed in that one line ;)
04:25<@Celestar>it is unfortunately a very diffuse term
04:25<@Celestar>however, the Falcon 9 is designed to carry a crew of 7 to the ISS and similar orbits
04:26<AgentLeMan>hi appe, and yes, too many trains ;o)
04:26<appe>AgentLeMan: morning.
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04:28<@Celestar>planetmaker: earlier this year, SpaceX became the first company to launch a privately funded and developed liquid fuel rocket to Orbit
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04:28<planetmaker>was it them who won the X-price?
04:29<@Celestar>nope, they came much later.
04:29<@Celestar>but they won a 280-million dollar COTS contract by NASA
04:29<planetmaker>:) ah... I remember reading that.
04:29<appe>i wish my rockets would go to orbit one day
04:29<@Celestar>if everything goes well, they'll resupply the ISS from 2011 on.
04:29<planetmaker>new infrastructure for OpenTTD: spaceport
04:30<planetmaker>accepts: goods, food, oil (or plastics and fuel oil)
04:30<@Celestar>ACTUALLY Denver international airport was designed with a spaceport in mind :P
04:30<planetmaker>also: tourists :)
04:30<@Celestar>hence its enourmous size
04:30<planetmaker>availability: within 50 tiles of a town of >30k
04:31<planetmaker>and date > 1970
04:31<@Celestar>I still refuse to accept the german word of "Weltraumbahnhof" :P
04:31<planetmaker>why? It's a nice and appropriate term, isn't it?
04:32<planetmaker>well... yes. Probably better :)
04:32<@Celestar>because it more works like a port than a station
04:32<dihedral># pm: get to work :-P
04:32<dihedral>bash: pm:: command not found
04:32<appe>how do i make a scenario editor map in 2048x2048?
04:32<planetmaker>yup, I agree.
04:32<@Celestar>it's Flughafen, not Luftbahnhof :P
04:32<planetmaker>dihedral: hehe ;)
04:33<DASPRiD>dihedriert :)
04:33<appe>when pressing the scenario editor button, it directly takes me to a 1024x256 map
04:33<AgentLeMan>yip, "weltraum" somehow smells ugly
04:34<thingwath>I like "kosmodrom", you can't beat that with some port or station :o)
04:34*appe doesnt understand
04:34<appe>fixed it
04:34<planetmaker>moin DASPRiD
04:34<DASPRiD>moin pm
04:38<DASPRiD>Celestar, "weltraumbahnhof" o.0
04:42<appe>i need to make myself a better de-limer for the espresso machines
04:44<appe>i just found a bug!
04:44<AgentLeMan>in your coffee?
04:45<appe>when starting up a scenario editor á 1024x1024, i wanted to create "many random industries". when pressing the button at the same time as i held ctrl down (by accident) closed the program.
04:45<appe>bug or not, it sure isnt any vista function.
04:45<AgentLeMan>and yes, found bugs mostly sit on a chair in front of the pc ;o)
04:46<appe>if i ever find a bug in my precious espresso machine.
04:46<DASPRiD>AgentLeMan, huge bugs :x
04:46<DASPRiD>i bet your watched too much starship troopers
04:48<AgentLeMan>°grins° nah, i hate it when the nice gals die
04:48<AgentLeMan>adn them were darn nice
04:50<AgentLeMan>as you clicked there with CTRL...
04:51<AgentLeMan>did you got the "town required" error?=
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04:51<Patrick>they were darn nice
04:51<AgentLeMan>on win 32 and latest nightly, without a town it works, you get that error. with a town, you get as expected "many industries"
04:51<Patrick>but were they gosh-darned
04:52<Patrick>ooh a bug a bug a bug
04:53<AgentLeMan>"get that error" means you get the "town required"-errorwindow. sory for being unclear
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05:38<AgentLeMan>hmm, out of a caution : how do i move or delete an tortoise SVN-directorytree? im not getting a clear picture out of the helpfile
05:38<AgentLeMan>a local one i mean, the one i use for compiling
05:41<appe>holy moly
05:41<appe>it was a vista function
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05:56<appe>(last year: $19,564,552)
05:56<appe>longest train ive ever built. :>
05:57<FauxFaux>You're probably playing with inflation on, though, so that's entirely meaningless. :p
05:57<appe>inflation is off.
05:58<mrfrenzy>for some insane income figures you should try long maglevs running pax and valuables ;)
06:01<appe>this is coal.
06:03<mrfrenzy>well coal is great to get starting income, but once you can afford to build bigger networks, there are much more profitable cargo
06:03<mrfrenzy>as always, check the graph ,)
06:20<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14617 /trunk/src/ (strgen/strgen.cpp strgen/strgen.h strings.cpp): -Change: unduplicate the languagepack(header).
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06:33<Gekz>I need cheap dedicated hosting
06:36<Qball>I need 10 million dollar
06:36<AgentLeMan> is cheap hosting
06:38*Celestar has dedicated hosting for about 50 EUR a month
06:38*Qball has donated hosting
06:44<FauxFaux>Why dedicated and not VM?
06:44<mrfrenzy>because of the price/performance
06:45<FauxFaux>Obviously we have differing definitons of "cheap".
06:46<@petern>when everyone gets their electricity bills, dedicated hosting costs will go :p
06:46<@petern>up :p
06:48<Gekz>I'd host it from home
06:48<Gekz>except I dont have a persistent connection
06:48<Gekz>and I have crappy speeds
06:48<Gekz>and 50 EUR is too steep for me
06:48<Gekz>I have an inferior currency
06:49<@petern>an average server costs around €35 a month in power
06:50<Gekz>your power is expensive >_>
06:50<Gekz>ours costs about half that
06:53<+tokai>try some less power consuming hardware:)
06:53<+tokai>usually home servers don't have to be some power++ monster machines;)
06:53<Gekz>I just need a consumer machine hosted somewhere else
06:53<Gekz>that's all I ask
06:53<Gekz>is it too much?
06:54<Gekz>I swear I want to start a socialist union of technology
06:54<Gekz>where everything is run at cost.
06:55<@petern>won't work
06:55<Gekz>why not
06:56<@petern>people won't do anything if there's no profit in it
06:57<Gekz>not true.
06:57<Gekz>if it feeds their family, many people are content.
07:00<appe>one will say
07:00<appe>one is very pleased about buying a kilogram of brie cheese.
07:01<appe>it comes so cheap, therefor a kilo was bought to the friday meal
07:01<appe>wich was delicious.
07:01<appe>and all the breakfeasts after that.
07:02*appe grabs a loaf of greek bread and smashes on a giant slice of cheese
07:02<AgentLeMan>if it feeds their family, = profit
07:02<Gekz>you are french
07:02<appe>i am? :<
07:02<Gekz>appe: surely
07:02<AgentLeMan>we allll are
07:02<AgentLeMan>he says it, so it must be true
07:02<appe>i would like to be
07:03<Gekz>I wish Australia was colonised by france
07:03<Gekz>and not england
07:03<Gekz>but didnt have french law
07:03<appe>et je le parle couramment
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07:05<Gekz>un peu
07:05<@Celestar>next week, I might have the chance to directly compare the TGV to the ICE :D
07:06<Zahl>ice is more comfy, but tgv goest faster :)
07:06<Gekz>you've never tried public transport until you've used CityRail
07:07<Zahl>i heard some bad things about it
07:10<Gekz>I nearly got arrested
07:10<Gekz>for riding without a ticker
07:10<Gekz>ticket* as a student
07:10<Gekz>they refused to give me one at the beginning of the year on the grounds that "a bus passes your house once every 12 hours"
07:11<AgentLeMan>°sighs° so many chances, yet unused.
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07:18<@petern>ah, my leccy bill
07:18<@petern>72 days, 825 kWh
07:18<@petern>so... 11 kWh a day? :o
07:19<Doorslammer>Is that why they built that coal-fired power station behind your house?
07:20<appe>yes, pretty much.
07:20<@petern>one of our data centre bills is for 5500 kWh in a month
07:21<appe>petern: holy christ
07:21<@petern>appe, no
07:21<@petern>825 / 72 / 24
07:22<appe>excuse me
07:22<appe>ill return to cleaning the apart.
07:22*Zahl excuses appe
07:23<appe>a 200W pc uses 1kwh per five hours
07:23<appe>your server is a bit louder then that.
07:23<@petern>oh, well, that's my whole house :p
07:23<@petern>and there are no servers in there
07:24<Zahl>living in a dorm where you don't have to pay for gas/water/power ftw \o/
07:24<appe><@petern> one of our data centre bills is for 5500 kWh in a month
07:24<appe>data centre
07:25<appe>i read that as one pc
07:25<@petern>appe, a bill from the data centre, not for a whole data centre :)
07:25<@petern>it's only 5 racks worth in there
07:26<appe>so: hours of the month = 720. 5500/720?
07:26<appe>i still suck balls at math. :(
07:27<@petern>about 7.6 kW
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07:27<appe>for five racks?
07:27<@petern>that's not that bad
07:27*appe is a p3 733MHz and doesnt really get in to 100.
07:27<appe>top 100*
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07:28<appe>i was actually suprised when i measured it, and discoverd that it never jumps over 65W
07:29<@petern>hmm, actually
07:29<@petern>we get 1kW per rack inclusive
07:29<@petern>so it's 12.6 kW
07:29<@petern>2.5 kW per rack, that's more like it
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07:35<@petern>why do they have to use two-tier pricing :o
07:35<@petern>it's not like it's accurate :o
07:39<@petern>hmm, i wonder if i can replace a solenoid flow valve with a motorised one...
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07:52<@Celestar>:o a new dwarf planet has been found in our own solar system
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07:54<Gekz>petern: you made me chuckle
07:59<AgentLeMan>Celestar, vanity fair has found secret photos of Oprah Winfrey, before her diet?
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08:04<@Celestar>who the fuck cares about pseudo-celebrities and their morbid affairs?
08:04<AgentLeMan>uhm... i conclude, you didnt made the connection to "new dwarf planet found"
08:05<@Celestar>I see a failed attempt at a connection :P
08:05<AgentLeMan>her bum...
08:05<AgentLeMan>anyways, too late now
08:06<@Celestar>well, I haven't seen her in years, so the planetary discriminant of her bum is unknown to me :P
08:06<AgentLeMan>i wouldnt even klnow, if shes still alive.
08:07<@Celestar>heh .. welcome to the club
08:08<AgentLeMan>°tries to decode Celestar°
08:08<@Celestar>regexp ...
08:08<planetmaker>the preferred language for that is probably brainfuck... ;)
08:08<SpComb>no regexps in brainfuck
08:08<planetmaker>... or are you easily decryptable, Celestar ? :)
08:09*Celestar wags finger at planetmaker :D
08:09<planetmaker>I hope for you not :)
08:09<planetmaker>static ip... you should get it resolved ;)
08:09<@Celestar>I'm LGPL v3 :P
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08:09<planetmaker>that's nice. I may clone you and sell those for money :)
08:10<@Celestar>planetmaker: our new admins managed to mess up my DNS server
08:10<@Celestar>who would want to purchase clones of me? openttd players to code their wanted features?
08:10<planetmaker>but sure that's good (for them): it demonstrates their usefulness and makes their job indispensible :P
08:11<planetmaker>Celestar: sure, why not?
08:11<@Celestar>family members who would like to see more of me ...
08:11<blathijs>I guess it would be cheaper and more effective to just pay Celestar for OpenTTD coding :-)
08:11<blathijs>Or any other dev, for that matter :-p
08:11<planetmaker>you shouldn't mix your instances... it may lead to ressource conflicts...
08:11<@Celestar>blathijs: that depends on the amount of clones, doesn't it?
08:14*Celestar guesses planetmaker has a business case
08:15<appe>i just realized something
08:15<planetmaker>now I just need some millions to get the startup going :P
08:15<appe>i have the greatest business deal ever.
08:15<appe>hiring myself out as a mcdonalds hamburger driver.
08:16<appe>i take a buck for every time i get burgers to peoples homes
08:16<appe>and by statistics it should be profitable
08:16<appe>really, really profitable.
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08:20<planetmaker>eh... ? Sure about that, appe ? Count me out as your customer :)
08:22<AgentLeMan>at the latest, you would go bancrupt, the day MCD invents an "all you can eat" day, so your running costs (fuel, used car, seatcleaner-agent) increase more than you can make profit from the 1 $ / burger-scheme
08:23<maka>maybe you can make a tryout in ttd :]
08:24<AgentLeMan>maka, how did you know, i was just trying to set up a business, where i supply pax-transport to a 5000-people city with just some ( 50+) volkswagen beetle?
08:24<maka>hehe :D
08:26<AgentLeMan>now though im trying to find out, why the aviators planeset always has pink colorerrors when i use it :o(
08:28<AgentLeMan>oh... that happens, if one ( not you, appe ) uses the windows palette oO
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08:51*Celestar shakes his head in utter disbeleif
08:52<@Celestar>they're releasing a terrorist and murderer from prison
08:52<mrfrenzy>how long has he been in there?
08:52<@Celestar>26 years
08:53<Gekz>he's already dead.
08:53<mrfrenzy>isn't that punishment enough then?
08:53*planetmaker nods
08:54<@Celestar>for someone who hasn't even apologized for his murders? never.
08:54<mrfrenzy>hopefully they have treated whatever psycological problems he had before letting him out
08:54<@Celestar>he didn't have any psycho problems.
08:54<@Celestar>he is a terrorist.
08:54<Gekz>leave him in there.
08:55<@Rubidium>so if he would have said: "I'm sorry" it is okay to release him? Is that really a measure?
08:55*Celestar thinks remorse is the most basic requirement for release someone from prison prematurely
08:55<Gekz>it should be
08:56<Gekz>non-parole for no remorse
08:56<@Rubidium>but you can't tell whether someone actually means what (s)he says
08:56<@Belugas>"No Remorse, No regret, We don't care, what a mess"
08:56<@Celestar>so basically, for each murder he commited, he got less than 3 years.
08:56<Gekz>those that are adamant that they dont care can stay in
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08:59<@Rubidium>so they do in volume rebates?
08:59<@Celestar>Rubidium: yes, they do
08:59<@Celestar>the more people you kill, they cheaper you get it ..
09:00<@petern>Celestar, they do tend to release people after their terms are up
09:00<@Rubidium>don't forget to get drunk, then you get a massive rebate too
09:00<@petern>apologies don't come into it
09:00<@petern>i have just merged railtypes
09:00*petern ponders actually merging it some day
09:01<@Celestar>petern: he got five times Life Imprisonment.
09:01<@petern>concurrent? heh
09:04<planetmaker>[14:58] * Celestar thinks remorse is the most basic requirement for release someone from prison prematurely <--- doesn't really help. It's easy to fake...
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09:06<planetmaker>more important IMO is "will the person do it again". Which psychologist say in this case "won't"
09:06<planetmaker>petern: go, go. MOOORE FEATURES :)
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09:09<@Celestar>planetmaker: I "do not sure your optimistic appraisal of the situation"
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09:10<planetmaker>Celestar: I'm not a psychologist. I didn't write the reports.
09:11*DASPRiD waves at pm
09:11*planetmaker waves back
09:11*DASPRiD waves back again
09:11<@Celestar>planetmaker: if a phsychologist can find out whether he'll do it again, he can find out whether the remore is faked or not
09:11<planetmaker>Celestar: probably :)
09:11<@Celestar>it's even easier since it involves no guessing the future
09:13<planetmaker>but I think that's less important than a probability to do it again.
09:13<@Celestar>heh. I think both are mandatory
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09:20<@Celestar>glaciers on Mars
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09:43<Sacro> have fun chaps
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09:58<Eddi|zuHause2>"what is the value of the expression '5//3'" <- that's evil :p
09:59<@Rubidium>yup, that people don't see that ;)
10:00<@Rubidium>the last bonus question's also evil, but so dead simple
10:03<Eddi|zuHause2>it's like the tests that say "to pass this test, you only have to answer the last question" :p
10:08<planetmaker>[16:01] <Eddi|zuHause2> "what is the value of the expression '5//3'" <- that's evil :p <--- what is it, asks pm, the uninitiated...
10:08<Eddi|zuHause2>5 is an expression, and //3 is a comment ;)
10:08<planetmaker>autsch! yes, sure.
10:09<yorick>that's pure evil!
10:13<yorick>"(34 > 19)" :o
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10:15<Eddi|zuHause2>i think 5 is the only question with educational value
10:15<MaxxJuggs> <--- has anyone downloaded and installed this patch?
10:17<MaxxJuggs>I downloaded that .zip file yesterday and extracted it in my openttd folder overwriting "openttd.exe" and one file in lang directory. after that the game won't start. do I need some other programs to install that patch correctly?
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10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>the files in the data-directory, too
10:19<MaxxJuggs>hmm. what files?
10:19<Eddi|zuHause2>and if you only overwrite english.lng, you can't use any languages other than english
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10:20<MaxxJuggs>but is that the correct way to install that patch? just extract that .zip file in to the folder?
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10:22<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but you need the correct base version, you cannot just overwrite 0.6.3 files, you need the appropriate nightly files
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10:23<MaxxJuggs>hmm. where I can get those files? for 0.6.3 version I mean?
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10:24<Eddi|zuHause2>you can't
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10:24<MaxxJuggs>oh? :)
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>you can only overwrite the files which have the same revision as the patched binary
10:26<MaxxJuggs>ok. what should I do to get this patch to work? download another version or what? the game speed is way too fast currently with new machines
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>you need to go to the nightly archive and download a nightly around r14293
10:26<@Rubidium>the game doesn't run faster when you computer gets faster
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes it does, the game was waaaay slower with 80 trains on my 386 DX-25 :p
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10:27<MaxxJuggs> <--- I guess it's not that one?
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10:28<Eddi|zuHause>no, you need the archives for old nightlies
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10:30<Eddi|zuHause> <- like this one
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>extract that over your 0.6.3 build, and then extract the patched binary over this one
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10:31<MaxxJuggs>do I have to download all those files or only that 3,7 megabytes file?
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>only the one that says "win32"
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>hm, doesn't have one
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>bad luck
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>but you should only need the files in data/ from the archive, it should be fine
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10:33<MaxxJuggs>there ain't no data folder inside ot that 3,7 megabytes .zip file
10:35<MaxxJuggs>so I should now copy the contents of that bin/data folder to my 0.6.3 data folder and then apply that day lenght patch?
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10:37<MaxxJuggs>hmm. i guess it's not good to overwrite that lang file because I want the text to be Finnish? :)
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could also find a strgen.exe [should be _somewhere_ on the forum] and compile finnish.txt from that archive
10:38<gynter>1,5 meters of snow... good
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>we have 3cm or so
10:40<MaxxJuggs>hmm. I guess it didn't work. day goes by at around 2-3 seconds in the game :S
10:41<gynter>from yesterday night till today morning about 2/3 of my county was without electricity
10:41<gynter>(including me) :P moved to granny until power recovers
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10:51<MaxxJuggs>is there any other way to make the game go slower than applying that day lenght patch?
10:52<gynter>there is a day lenght patch ?
10:52<gynter>hmm, I wanna make 12h = 1 yr
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10:54<Eddi|zuHause>MaxxJuggs: you need to change the daylength settigns in the advanced options
10:54<MaxxJuggs>in the game?
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>yes, in the game
10:56<MaxxJuggs>I cannot find that option
10:56<MaxxJuggs>I freshly installed the 0.6.3 version and the newest nightlies
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>advanced settings, under economy tab, when you reapplied the daylength patch
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10:58<Eddi|zuHause>(might still be called "patch settings" in that old patched exe)
11:00<MaxxJuggs>yeah. now I got it to work
11:00<MaxxJuggs>it was pretty easy after all
11:00<MaxxJuggs>first install the 0.6.3 version, then install newest nightlies and finally the day lenght patch
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11:01<Jango>Celestar, am i doing something stupid - when i compile cargodest and try to run it, I get a no available language packs error
11:02<Jango>but there are language files in bin/lang
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>maybe version mismatch?
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11:04<MaxxJuggs>when the day lenght setting is at maximum one day takes about 1min10sec
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11:05<Eddi|zuHause>now go calculating what's 2s*32 in minutes ;)
11:05<MaxxJuggs>yeah I know :)
11:05<MaxxJuggs>I just wanted to mention that ;D
11:06<MaxxJuggs>it's been about 15 years since I last played this game :)
11:06<MaxxJuggs>now it's time to start enjoying it again. thanks for help Eddi|zuHause :)
11:10<@Celestar>Jango: er .. how did you check it out?
11:10<Jango>from nightly
11:10<Jango>grabbed source tarball
11:11<@Celestar>hm ..
11:11<@Celestar>the source tree works for me
11:11<planetmaker>Jango: consider getting subversion or mercurial
11:12<Jango>well, i've got svn
11:12<Jango>just installing hg now
11:12<@Celestar>I've just merged from trunk (=
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11:13<Eddi|zuHause>how dare you! you ought to merge TO trunk! :)
11:13<@Celestar>I *guess* Rubidium will be pissed if I merge cargodest into trunk now :P
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>he surely can't beat Tron at that :p
11:15<planetmaker>was Tron a bit... short-tempered?
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure the history of the bridge branch was documented somewhere ;)
11:15<@Rubidium>Celestar: yes, I would get pissed
11:15<@petern>get drunk!
11:16<@Rubidium>but foremostly because you would then make my trunk savegame unloadable
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11:19<@Celestar>Rubidium: nope, not anymore afaik
11:19<@Rubidium>petern: the "Broken savegame - Invalid chunk size" kind of unloadable
11:20<@Rubidium>Celestar: then push whatever you've fixed in the last 9 minutes
11:20<@petern>ah, broken the golden rule again?
11:22<@Celestar>er .. oh :P
11:23<@Celestar>so where is it broken O_o
11:23<@Rubidium>trunk's version 103 and cargop's version 103
11:23<Jango>ok, now this is working
11:24<@Celestar>I seem to have missed some SL revision bump ^^
11:24<@Celestar>but I'm heading out
11:25<@Celestar>cu later
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11:25<@petern>i could merge rail types but it's still a bit WIP
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11:25<@petern>especially tunnels
11:27<appe>extreme home makeover may be over nationalistic and such
11:27<appe>but damn, they can build.
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>different tunnel types, similar to bridge types, would be cool
11:28<appe>53 hours to build an entire house.
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what "extreme ome makeover" is
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>but a house built from predesigned plates is easily put up within 3 days
11:29<@Rubidium>you mean they usually build houses without designing them first? As it takes almost a year here...
11:32<appe>building it from scratch is way cool. but this is for people who doesnt have anything. and building the house (with no pre-fab walls or such) in that time is rather heavy.
11:33<appe>although, they are over 150-200 people that works 'round the clock.
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11:39<Eddi|zuHause>building a (probably rather small) house in 10000man-hours is not a big problem either
11:39<appe>at the same time?
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11:40<Eddi|zuHause>not all problems can be solved faster by throwing more people at it, but construction work certainly is
11:40<appe>ajl say nevar.
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11:41<Eddi|zuHause>the question is, if they skip essential issues like hardening time for cement and stuff, will that house fall down after 1 year, 10 years, or 100 years
11:42<appe>speed concrete may not be cheap, but it sure does the job.
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>but who cares about 1 year later when you had a huge show effect...
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11:43<Eddi|zuHause>and building a house is definitely cheaper than producing one episode of heroes
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11:44<appe>one thing i have been thinking about
11:44<appe>what about tax?
11:44<appe>i guess americans pay extra tax on their house per square meter
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>easy, just get a hypotheque on the house to pay the taxes :p
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11:46<appe>and the electrical bills. they go from a shed to a big lighted house with pools and plasma tvs
11:46<appe>i bet that new fridge costs more kwh then the original house. :E
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11:46<appe>but then, i have no idea how big of a deal electrical prices are in the us.
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11:50<@petern>well they'd complain that they're expensive...
11:50<@petern>and they're probably about a 10th of everyone elses, heh
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>well, america was built on the premise that land is cheap and energy is cheap
11:51<appe>and thats still a bit wierd
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>and both are continuously rising
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12:18<benjamingoodger>good evening, gentlemen
12:18<benjamingoodger>the government of the uk is chucking money at the problem now...
12:18<@Celestar>problem? what problem?
12:19<benjamingoodger>the recession
12:19<benjamingoodger>we're to spend twenty billion pounds on tax cuts
12:19<@Celestar>(note: i was kindding)
12:19<Jango>as long as they build nice shiny new transport stuff, i don't mind :)
12:19<benjamingoodger>not bloody likely
12:19<@Celestar>Jango: YEY! Heathrow's 3rd runway \o/
12:20<benjamingoodger>we haven't had any new trains since 2004
12:20<@Celestar>Ultraspeed 500
12:20<Jango>and stansted's number 2
12:20<Jango>and crossrail
12:20<Jango>bring on the recession :/
12:20<@Celestar>runways are dirty cheap
12:20<Jango>except when the UK builds, then it's a couple of bn each
12:21<@Celestar>buying up the houses on which to build it, that's expensive
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12:30<@Celestar>stupid FAA
12:30<@Celestar>"WIE UNTIL UFN"
12:30<@Celestar>why two untils?
12:32<@Rubidium>maybe UNTIL has some meaning too
12:32<@Celestar>it's usually <FROM> UNTIL <TILL>
12:33<@Rubidium>probably because they didn't like FUN as abbreviation
12:33<@Celestar>like 14 NOV 08:00 2008 UNTIL 31 JAN 16:00 2009
12:33<@Rubidium>FUrther Notice
12:34<@Rubidium>*or* UFN means Ultimate Fight Night
12:37<benjamingoodger>understimulated fortuituously naturists
12:39<benjamingoodger>underhandedly flippant newsreel
12:44<Prof_Frink>Unidentified Flying Noodles.
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13:20<George_> DaleStan: Unfortunately I could find only 0.9.10 r1854e and it has the same error
13:20<George_>Is there a newer version of grfcodec
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13:21<Wolf01>"<grmpff> Roads and stations in TTD (OTTD, TTDPatch, ...) are already built diagonally" LOL
13:21<Ammler>George_: I have r2055
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13:21<George_>where did you download it?
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13:22<George_>could you post a link?
13:23<yorick>Wolf01: that's quite true
13:23<Sacro>Wolf01: they are
13:23<Wolf01>they are aligned to grid
13:23<yorick>yes, grid has diagonal lines
13:23<Wolf01>the grid is visually diagonal
13:23<Ammler>George_: are you able to compile self?
13:24<George_>Ammler: No
13:24<yorick>Wolf01: yes, so the stations are visually diagonal
13:24<yorick>and they are codewise
13:24<Ammler>George_: and your OS is win?
13:24<Wolf01>and with diagonal, people always mean diagonal to grid, not diagonal to see
13:24<George_>Yes, win xp sp2
13:24<yorick>Wolf01: nope?
13:25<yorick>the stupid people do
13:25<Wolf01>thank you
13:27<@Belugas>yorick starts to learn about stupid people :D
13:28*Belugas dances of joy!
13:29<Ammler>George_: sorry then, I have no dev environment on windows....
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13:29<George_>Belugas, may be you can help?
13:30<yorick>what's the problem?
13:30<George_>To compile GRFCodec for win 32
13:30<yorick>no, I can't compile grfcodec
13:31<George_>I need r2055 and have only r1854
13:31<Ammler>yorick: just run "make grfcodec" ;-)
13:31<Ammler>George_: I am not sure, your problem is solved with it.
13:31<George_>Well, I'll at least try
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13:33<planetmaker>Ammler: you normally need boost. Or to edit one file and add #def NO_BOOST (or something like that)
13:33<yorick>and you need perl
13:33<Ammler>oh, you should use boost
13:33<Ammler>it is needed for escape sequences
13:33<planetmaker>he... I'm too stupid to install it properly.
13:34<@Belugas>i'll try George_
13:34<planetmaker>nasty boost has no proper MacOS installer.
13:34<Ammler>and nfo coding without escape is quite hard.
13:34<planetmaker>k, so I can basically trash my binary before I even tried it :P
13:35<Ammler>you can code without :P
13:35<Ammler>it is just not that easy ;-)
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13:53<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14618 /trunk/src/ (52 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: when the chosen language isn't supported by the current font, try to find a font that does and use that instead. Thanks to glx/michi_cc for the Windows implementation.
13:54<@Belugas>George_, i fail. Something about a bad directory or else. A bit in a hurry, so no time to dig in the problem
13:54<+glx>Belugas: yes cygwin is required even for MSVC
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13:55<@Belugas>c:\cygwin\bin\make -f NOREV=0
13:55<@Belugas>just found out ...
13:56<@Belugas>that is a bit... strange. Sure there must be a good reason but it's not somehting i'm inclined to here now ;)
13:56<CIA-5>OpenTTD: translators * r14619 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:56<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-11-24 18:56:10
13:56<CIA-5>OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed by Hadez (1)
13:56<CIA-5>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 fixed by habell (1)
13:56<CIA-5>OpenTTD: latvian - 19 fixed, 1 changed by v3rb0 (20)
13:56<CIA-5>OpenTTD: persian - 22 fixed by ali sattari (22)
13:56<CIA-5>OpenTTD: piglatin - 21 fixed by adammw (21)
14:00<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r14620 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r14618): missing lines broke compilation on windows
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14:28<planetmaker>hm... in current trunk I now get a linking error... (r14620):
14:28<@Rubidium>we know...
14:28<planetmaker> /usr/bin/ld: Undefined symbols:
14:28<planetmaker>SetFallbackFont(FreeTypeSettings*, char const*, int)
14:28<@Rubidium>why doesn't OSX use fontconfig?
14:28<planetmaker>collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
14:28<planetmaker>make[1]: *** [openttd] Error 1
14:28<planetmaker>oh, ok
14:28<planetmaker>obviously my system not
14:29<planetmaker>I don't know why though...
14:29<planetmaker>where do I have to look to figure out?
14:29<@Rubidium>ah well... then someone has to code SetFallbackFont for OSX ;)
14:29<@Rubidium>but it's trivial to solve the link error
14:29<planetmaker>hm, how?
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14:31<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14621 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r14618): link error when you aren't compiling for Windows or you don't have fontconfig.
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14:31<planetmaker>:) I guess... I pull again.
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15:05<Sacro>Chrill: ?
15:05<Wolf01>Sacro? No, Sacred 2 time :O
15:05<Chrill>can you restart brianetta's?
15:06<Sacro>Chrill: car?
15:07<benjamingoodger>not enough time
15:07<benjamingoodger>to finish last word in
15:08<benjamingoodger>must type as
15:08<benjamingoodger>separate message
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15:10<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r14622 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r14618): win9x compilation
15:11<Sacro>Chrill: hmm, i could...
15:12<Chrill>you should
15:12<Chrill>it's in 2054 or somesuch
15:12<Chrill>december 2052*
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15:27<Swallow>Is there a limit on the number of items in a dropdown list?
15:28<Swallow>Apart from practical limits, of course.
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>there used to be, but it has been lifted, afaik
15:29<Swallow>k, thanks
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>i've seen drop down lists with 31 entries
15:30*Rubidium has seen them with 39
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>but at that point, you should really consider if you shouldn't use a different format of representation
15:31-!-rubyruy [] has quit [Quit: rubyruy]
15:31<@Rubidium>what's a better representation for the list of languages?
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't say there is one ;)
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>just that you should consider the possibility
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>but, you could group them after regions, for example, and have submenus
15:32<+glx>at least language are sorted by name now :)
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15:35<Eddi|zuHause>or for example don't use a dropdown box, but open a new window which has a scroll bar
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>like the newgrf selection stuff
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>the brain has difficulties with parsing lists that have more than 7 entries
15:52<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14623 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Codechange: a sprinkle of coding style.
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15:58<planetmaker>[21:35] <Eddi|zuHause> like the newgrf selection stuff <-- for creating games I always use a version patched with the new newgrf gui window
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16:01<benjamingoodger>hello fjb! would you like a sugar-free worthers original?
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16:02<fjb>Sugar free?
16:02<benjamingoodger>yeah. from spain
16:02<benjamingoodger>nothing from spain has sugar in it, for some reason. maybe they're all diabetic
16:02<fjb>Hm, sugar replacements are even worse.
16:03<@Belugas>Hey!, Sugar? Where is my replacement??
16:04*benjamingoodger chucks one at belugas
16:05<@Belugas>gimme brown suger, shelter
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16:05<benjamingoodger>and it's landed in.... seattle! damn
16:05<benjamingoodger>better luck next time
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16:07<Eddi|zuHause>seattle is quite a distance from quebec ;)
16:07<Swallow>What is the devs' opinion on the close airport patch?
16:07<benjamingoodger>ah, your whois said vancouver
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>that's where the IRC server is
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>it's pretty random which one you connect to
16:08<benjamingoodger>very well..
16:08*benjamingoodger tries again
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>for example yours is in Darmstadt, Germany
16:08<benjamingoodger>hm. at least his got the right country
16:08<benjamingoodger>though mine was geographically closer.
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>well, geographics has not much to do with it, it's more the internet-proximity that decides your server
16:09<@Belugas>what the HELL am i doing in Hongouver ???
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>well, could be worse...
16:10<benjamingoodger>yes, yes, I know
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>you could be in Hannover :p
16:10<benjamingoodger>you could be in london
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16:10<@Belugas>yeah.. i could in in NorthPole :S
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>they at least have decent snow there :p
16:10<benjamingoodger>*grumbles about lack of snow*
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>we have plenty snow here
16:10*Belugas rejoyces at the lack of snow!!
16:11<benjamingoodger>Eddi|zuHause: fedex me some, will you?
16:11<benjamingoodger>I have seen no snow since 2005-11-25
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>NO i can't spare any!
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>ALL MINE!
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16:13<benjamingoodger>I was nearly going on a trip to montreal in may
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>bah... why is my presentation not finishing itself?
16:14<benjamingoodger>it's punishing you for not sharing your snow
16:15<@Belugas>FOUND IT!!!
16:15<@Belugas>Rolling Stones - Heaven
16:15<benjamingoodger>you retrieved the werther's?
16:16<benjamingoodger>that person clearly hates michael fox quite a lot. I wonder who he is
16:19<frosch123>pfff, michael fox - can't you just say marty mcfly ?
16:19<Eddi|zuHause> <- that one is cool ;)
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: can't you make that connection by yourself?
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16:19<benjamingoodger>never heard of him either
16:20*Belugas plugs his guitar jack oin his nose, according to Eddi|zuHause's suggestion
16:20<@Belugas>DOES NOT WORK!!
16:21<benjamingoodger>that's brilliant
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16:26<Eddi|zuHause>benjamingoodger: but please tell me you've heard of Michael J. Fox before
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16:30<Eddi|zuHause> <- go memorize this
16:31<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: <- far more useful
16:31<benjamingoodger>oh, those atrocious films
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16:32<frosch123>benjamingoodger: i can understand that you do not know michael j fox, but when you start to tell you don't know marty mcfly, you will become quite lonely
16:33-!-Mark [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it]
16:33<benjamingoodger>well, I only saw the last twenty minutes of one of those films, I don't know which it was
16:33<benjamingoodger>and I didn't care for it
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16:51<@Belugas>"What a drag It is getting Old"
16:51<Sacro>Belugas: might want to look at that shift key
16:52<benjamingoodger>possibly he is trying to signify the start of lines in a poem
16:52<benjamingoodger>and failing to realise/ that forward-slashes are used/ for this
16:54*benjamingoodger wonders why it is so quiet tonight
16:54<benjamingoodger>last night it was a whirlwind of activity
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17:02<@Belugas>wHY iS thaT, SACRO?
17:03-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>maybe "What", "It" and "Old" are names?
17:05<benjamingoodger>not bloody likely
17:06<benjamingoodger>english explicitly bans capitalisation of pronouns, correlatives and adjectives except in title-case
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>the only other option is that he is trying german, but fails horribly ;)
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17:12<@Belugas>it was to put some accent on some words... of course of course
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17:42<Jango>[daniel@neptune 52af4cv2.default]$ df -h
17:42<Jango>Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
17:42<Jango>/dev/sda3 19G 18G 0 100% /
17:42<Jango>that'll be why firefox stopped working..
17:43<Progman>I know that very well, for that reason I bought a 500gb external hard drive ;)
17:43<fjb>18G home?
17:43<benjamingoodger>18G root!
17:44<@petern>my root is 10GB
17:44<@petern>which is a bit excessive
17:44<benjamingoodger>mine's 6.5G
17:44<Jango>yeah, i don't generally store much data on this pc full stop
17:44<benjamingoodger>but let's not get into a smallest-root competition
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>how cann you fill a 18GB root?
17:44<@petern>yeah, small roots only lead to problems...
17:44<Progman>a full hard drive is not as funny as a full memory usage ;)
17:44<@petern>Eddi|zuHause, by having /var and /home in there...
17:45<Prof_Frink>petern: Yeah, the tree falls over
17:45<Jango>Eddi|zuHause, i think it's the package manager's cache
17:45<Jango>i just saved 3.3 by deleting the cache
17:45<@petern>apt-get clean :D
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>my 13GB root still has plenty of space...
17:45<Jango>yeah, i keep meaning to put ubuntu on here
17:45<Jango>running arch asap
17:46<fjb>Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on
17:46<Jango>sorry, missing .
17:46<fjb>/dev/ufs/SP2004Cs2root 198126 97308 84968 53% /
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>my 380GB+420GB+910GB home does not, however :p
17:46<Jango>Eddi|zuHause, ;)
17:46<Jango>i won't ask what you fill it with
17:46<@petern>hmm, my 428GB /home has 10GB use
17:47<@petern>most of that is steam stuff, heh
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>go to kaffeine, click on record, don't have enough spare time to cut the commercials....
17:47<Jango>steam - is that for anything other than counterstrike?
17:48<Jango>i'm a bit out of touch
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>yes, audiosurf :p
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17:50<benjamingoodger>half-life 2 episode two!
17:50<Jango>the only game i play now is openttd
17:50<Jango>no time or inclination for anything else
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18:03<SpComb>Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on
18:03<SpComb>mini_fo:/jffs 1.2M 1.2M 0 100% /
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18:04<benjamingoodger>you're like a guy who doesn't own a television
18:04-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:05*SpComb doesn't, in fact, own a television
18:05<benjamingoodger>see! see!
18:05<benjamingoodger>whenever televisions are mentioned, we get a horde of people saying they don't own them
18:05<SpComb>(although according to the Finnish television license ministry, I'm supposed to pay the television license anyways because I have a PC hooked up to a network where it's possible to view IPTV)
18:06<@Rubidium>sounds familiar
18:06<benjamingoodger>sounds fair, the British television licensing corporation does that too
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>does not sound fair, but they passed a law like that in germany, too
18:06<benjamingoodger>(the non-television-owning people invariably then continue with a complaint about the tv licensing agency)
18:07<SmatZ>they wanted to have a law like that here, but isn't here yet :)
18:07<@Rubidium>television is utter shit anyways
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>"Neuartiges Rundfunkgerät" they call it
18:07<benjamingoodger>Eddi|zuHause: you are meant to pay the TV license if you own something that can be used to watch BBC copyrighted content... therefore, internet-connected computers are included
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18:07<benjamingoodger>it's entirely fair, to the extent that charging people who own a television is fair
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>although, it costs only as much as a radio license, not a TV license (unless you also own a TV, or a TV card for the computer)
18:08<SpComb>but the fact remains that I don't watch IPTV, so I don't want to pay to 120€ or whatever it was a year for the privilege of choosing not to watch TV
18:08<SmatZ>why isn't is paid from taxes, this is just another annyoning fee (little, but annyoning)
18:08<benjamingoodger>because not everyone owns a television
18:09<SmatZ>there are people who don't pay taxes, too... like homelesses
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>if it were payed from taxes, the government might take (more) influence on the content
18:09<SpComb>they have this advertising campaign for it here in Finland, it's even possible to buy a TV license as a gift card...
18:09<benjamingoodger>spcomb would complain, loudly and continually, about being taxed to pay for other people's television
18:09<SmatZ>soon you will be able to watch TV at phone
18:09-!-bleepy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:09<SmatZ>SpComb has PC
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>radio costs 5,52€ per month and TV(+radio+...) costs 17,03€ in germany
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>at least according to this GEZ letter on my table
18:10<benjamingoodger>colour tv license is only £60 per year in UK
18:10<SpComb>benjamingoodger: I barely pay 215€/yr in taxes
18:10<benjamingoodger>b&w tv license is £30
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>but you don't have to pay if you live in your parent's home and earn less than 280€ per month
18:11<SmatZ>benjamingoodger: do you pay for each TV?
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>benjamingoodger: they actually make a difference for that?!?
18:11<benjamingoodger>no, per household
18:11<benjamingoodger>yes, they do
18:11<SmatZ>then it is cheap
18:11<benjamingoodger>there is also a discount if you are blind or deaf :P
18:12<benjamingoodger>SpComb: presumably you plan to pay some at some point in the future?
18:12<SpComb>heh, 50% off for blind/deaf? :P
18:12<@Rubidium>deaf need to pay more
18:13<@Rubidium>for the subtitling
18:13<SpComb>benjamingoodger: presumeably
18:13<benjamingoodger>is that a "yes", or are you trying to correct my spelling?
18:13<SpComb>why do governments even tax TV licenses separately?
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18:13<SpComb>confused yet?
18:14<benjamingoodger>I am
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: again, because it is not a tax
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>it is a fee
18:14<SpComb>fee for what?
18:14<benjamingoodger>fee for watching the tv
18:14<SpComb>but I don't watch TV
18:14<SpComb>so why should I have to pay it?
18:14<@Rubidium>SpComb: do you also have to pay a fee for "copyright owners" when you buy an empty CD, empty DVD, etc?
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>for public TV without (much) governmental influence
18:15<SpComb>no, it's just defined in a silly way :(
18:15<benjamingoodger>no, but you have equipment to do so
18:15<benjamingoodger>you cannot be trusted to have the equipment and not do it, obviously
18:16<@Rubidium>and do you have to pay a dog tax when you doorbell sounds like a dog?
18:16<benjamingoodger>we don't have dog taxes here
18:17<SpComb>the "have the equipment to do so" thing is kind of meaningless when you have equipment that wasn't made for watching TV, but is capable of doing so because your ISP configured some routers on their side of the network
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>dog taxes are communal taxes, each village may have its own dog taxes
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: then talk to the ISP to not allow IPTV for your connection
18:18<benjamingoodger>...which is laughable
18:19<SpComb>indeed, there was some discussion about making it opt-in
18:19<benjamingoodger>because you will still be able to view youtube recordings of the content
18:19<@Rubidium>oh... not to forget the copier tax: if you have the means to copy a piece of paper (as company) you have to pay an annual fee (to compensate copyright owners) regardless on the amount you copy or whether you actually copy copyrighted materials
18:19<SpComb>well, if the government wants some way to define the criteria for having to pay the license in the law, then it's not entirely ridiculous for the ISP to provide a way to make a solid choice yourself
18:19<benjamingoodger>ah, copier taxes... those aren't good
18:19<SmatZ>Rubidium: that's silly... we only have to pay for printers, inks and paper :-P
18:20<SpComb>although I'm not quite sure how the ISP would implement it... filtering multicast traffic on the switch ports, or some kind of IGMP source-IP monitoring
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>cd burners have a similar fee
18:20<benjamingoodger>laser toner is already more expensive than cocaine
18:21-!-rortom [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
18:21<@Rubidium>that does in effect make copying any content fairly legal; you're paying the copyright owners anyways
18:21-!-silent [~pwr@] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
18:21<benjamingoodger>you'd think so, wouldn't you
18:22<benjamingoodger>I look forward to the day when record labels are relegated to the status of litigation trolls
18:22*Rubidium still needs to find a use for the CD/DVD player/burner in his laptop
18:23<SpComb>CD-burner tax
18:23<benjamingoodger>and someone in the EU notices, and issues a directive about it, and we all rejoice, bathing in sunshine and rainbows
18:23-!-nekx [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:24<SpComb>rainbow tax
18:24<benjamingoodger>kvietigxu, vi...
18:24<@Rubidium>after having the laptop for 4.5 years as main (only) workstation I've yet to use the darn cdrom thing
18:24<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> that does in effect make copying any content fairly legal; you're paying the copyright owners anyways <- but they closed that loophole, the copyright now says that this is only legal when the source of the material was legal as well
18:25<SpComb>the media tax is indeed a pretty ridiculous concept
18:25<@Rubidium>well... the source is legal per definition
18:27<benjamingoodger>perhaps I will strike germany from my list of emigration destinations after all
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. they noticed that flaw after they passed the law, now they are trying to change it again
18:27<benjamingoodger>seems a little copyrighted for me
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>germany has one of the most strict copyrights in the world
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>but it does have advantages, like music companies cannot simply strip the musicians of their copyright, like they do in the USA
18:29<benjamingoodger>well, yes
18:29<benjamingoodger>I didn't have the US on the list to begin with :P
18:29<benjamingoodger>it's a criminal offense, however, to distribute copyrighted works without permission in the UK
18:30<benjamingoodger>not sure how that compares with germany
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>germany has very clear exceptions for copyright
18:30<benjamingoodger>I think I'll go, sort of north of germany
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18:30<Eddi|zuHause>like you are allowed to make copies for personal use, and distribute them to family and close friends
18:31<benjamingoodger>that's more permissive than the UK, then
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>which is what the cd burner fee (and similar) are supposed to balance
18:31<benjamingoodger>giving my mother a copy of a language-learning program could send me to jail
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>no, programs are different, this exception is only for audio and video content
18:33<benjamingoodger>a language learning CD, then
18:34<Eddi|zuHause> <- if you want to know more about german copyright law
18:35<@Rubidium>oh.. legal German... not something I fancy reading
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>starting with §44a are the exceptions
18:35<benjamingoodger>bitte schön
18:36<benjamingoodger>but, eh, I'd rather stab myself slowly to death with a blunt pencil
18:36<benjamingoodger>norway, sweden, finland remain on the list
18:37<benjamingoodger>arguments against finland?
18:37<benjamingoodger>besides it being very cold and rather close to russia?
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>they charge you for IPTV even if you don't want it :p
18:37<@Rubidium>interesting... according to google it's a 42 minute walk for me to Germany
18:38<@Rubidium>why does that number pop up everywhere?
18:38<Chrill>benjamingoodger, Finland is Finland.. now, what list does it remain on?
18:38<Chrill>Rubidium, you're the meaning of lige
18:38<Chrill>life, even
18:39<benjamingoodger>my list of places to emigrate to, from the United Kingdom
18:40<benjamingoodger>must be rich, at least partly english-speaking, a bit socialist, and with lots of civil liberties
18:43<benjamingoodger>asia, eastern europe, africa, the US, south america are therefore not on the list... and I don't care to learn japanese. not sure about canada or australia... scandinavia has appeal
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>i'd try singapore, australia or new zealand ;)
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18:46<benjamingoodger>just 'cause you want me out of europe :P
18:46<appe>i was wondering, can i add newgrf patches while playing?
18:46<appe>or will that fuck things up
18:46<benjamingoodger>it may well fuck things up, however
18:46<appe>i just want faster trains :<
18:46<benjamingoodger>I don't know about australia... seems rather american
18:46<appe>dono if it exists, actually.
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>vietnam is beautiful, i have heard. and they use latin alphabet, so it's not impossible to learn their language ;)
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18:47<appe>vietnamese is rather easy compared with the rest of the asian languages
18:47<benjamingoodger>somewhat pacific, liable to be covered in water periodically
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, you might as well stay in your rainy, dirty, snowless UK then :p
18:48<appe>"fuck things up", with the map or the game?
18:48<benjamingoodger>possibly the map
18:49<benjamingoodger>if it doesn't crash the game, it's probably OK
18:49<benjamingoodger>I don't want to stay in my rainy dirty snowless UK
18:49<benjamingoodger>I quite like the idea of sweden
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>appe: it's probably a bad idea to switch train grfs if you already have existing trains
18:49<benjamingoodger>was just wondering if its neighbours were better in any way
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18:50<Eddi|zuHause>sweden spies on every internet traffic that crosses its borders :p
18:50<appe>Eddi|zuHause: ok
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18:51<benjamingoodger>this is true
18:51<benjamingoodger>so, arguments for norway?
18:52<Prof_Frink>Forget norway.
18:53*Sacro knows why
18:53<benjamingoodger>why, sacro?
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>what is a norway?
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18:54<benjamingoodger>come to kenya, we've got lions!!
18:54<appe>Eddi|zuHause: a norway is a long piece of asfalt, charged with a high electrical current, sent into several donkey arses for reaction
18:55<benjamingoodger>that was made by a Brit, you know :P
18:55<appe>Eddi|zuHause: the experiment is mostly used in northern part of europe.
18:55<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Thank you.
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18:55<Prof_Frink>benjamingoodger: A yorksherman.
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>appe: ah, right, i forot. :p
18:56<appe>a 'forot' is a carot, shaped like the #openttd main irc operator's sack of testicles
18:56<benjamingoodger>good god!
18:56<benjamingoodger>appe's been replaced by a wanker!
18:56<Sacro>who is the "main op"?
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18:56<appe>most comonly used in soup and northern parts of europe.
18:56<appe>Sacro: the main irc operator is the leader of kenya
18:57*appe would work superbly as the encyclopedia of worlds
18:58<Prof_Frink>benjamingoodger: about 3/4 down, "Jonti Picking, creator of the Weebl and Bob cartoon series"
18:59<benjamingoodger>brilliant I say!
18:59<benjamingoodger>ah, lovely
19:00<benjamingoodger>my accounting teacher is a yorkshireman
19:00<benjamingoodger>I'd happily vote for him in a general election
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i just found an interesting paragraph in the copyright: "copyright holders may not forbid making safety copies of programs, when that is necessary to ensure future use of the program"
19:02<Sacro>same as allowing reverse engineering in the event of the software being unavailable/outdated
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>german copyright allows decompilation to ensure interoperability
19:03<benjamingoodger>germans are allowed to reverse-engineer windows 2000?
19:03<benjamingoodger>good GOD
19:04<benjamingoodger>right, I'm going to bed
19:04<benjamingoodger>good night to ye
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19:06<Eddi|zuHause>means you can decompile windows programs in order to ensure them running under linux/wine/etc.
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19:09<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and the paragraphs about breaking copy protection do not cover computer programs
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19:28<appe>i have a new map
19:29<appe>a pile of transfer trains shipping coal to station 1
19:29<appe>train 1,2,3 (long ones) takes it to station 2, the power plant.
19:29<appe>but for some reason it doesnt leave it all
19:29<appe>100 tonnes stay on the train.
19:29<appe>got reason? (or hand cheeseburger)
19:30<appe>never mind.
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19:30<appe>station 2 had a coal mine next to it.
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i was about to suggest that :p
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20:33<Cookiej>Do i have to pay for mIRC?
20:33<SmatZ>you should
20:33<SmatZ>I think it is 30-days testing perion
20:33<SmatZ>they you should pay or stop using it
20:34<SmatZ>but hey, this isn't mirc support channel :-P
20:37<+glx>you are not forced to pay
20:38<SmatZ>"Thank you for trying out mIRC. mIRC can be downloaded freely and evaluated for up to 30 days. If after evaluating mIRC you find that you like it and wish to continue using it, you will need to register your copy. "
20:38<SmatZ>from mIRC website
20:39<+glx>just click on "OK" and it works
20:39<+glx>btw I don't use mIRC
20:39<SmatZ>so does winrar and total commander :)
20:54<Tefad>you know what doesn't bug you to register ever? most open source apps.
20:55<Tefad>and if they do bug you, you can likely find a version that doesn't! if not, you can edit the bugger out yourself.
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21:52<SmatZ>I can't live without sleep
21:52<SmatZ>this week is killing me :-x
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22:41<AgentLeMan>anyone alive in this cemetary?
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22:42<AgentLeMan>didnt really expected that. its IRC for gods sake. 100 people, 90 dead.
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23:53<@petern>didn't really expect that. it's IRC for god's sake. 100 people, 90 dead.
23:53<@petern>apostrophes are not hard.
23:54<AgentLeMan>grammar rules dont surpass politeness ;o)
23:55<@petern>yeah, it was the correct tense that tipped the balance. ;)
23:57<AgentLeMan>oh... that you mean °sighs°
23:57<AgentLeMan>ok, back to start
23:58<AgentLeMan>did'nt really expected that. it's IRC for gods sake. 100 people, 90 dead.
23:58<AgentLeMan>no error there.
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23:58<AgentLeMan>"god's" would be an error.
23:58<@petern>three errors there ;)
23:59<AgentLeMan>args... and "did'nt" is one
23:59<AgentLeMan>still, "god's" is wrong.
23:59<@petern>"did'nt", "expected", and indeed "gods"
23:59<AgentLeMan>it is "expect" ?
---Logclosed Tue Nov 25 00:00:26 2008