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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-11-26

---Logopened Wed Nov 26 00:00:29 2008
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02:39-!-mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ
02:40<@Celestar>\o
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02:53*Celestar hates input/output errors on the home directory
02:53<@Celestar>:S
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04:04*Celestar wonders whether he can put quotas on his samba profiles
04:05<@Celestar>root@andromeda:[/nfs/home/sangl/.msprofile]# du -sh
04:05<@Celestar>1.4G .
04:05<@Celestar>\o/
04:06<@Celestar>every time this user logs on, Windows considers it necessary to copy the whole profile over the damn network
04:08<@Rubidium>yes... it's much faster to have it locally, especially with the amount of queries that Windows can come up with
04:08<@Celestar>Rubidium: but those are roaming profiles
04:08<@Celestar>and why are people NOT using IMAP :S
04:09<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/find_this_differences.png (apart from the different for and the different version number and the different game state)
04:13<blathijs>Rubidium: One runs in dosbox and the other doesn't? :-D
04:13<@petern>the different for?
04:13<@petern>openttd for dos :o
04:14<@Rubidium>yup... and: DOS support Persian and OSX doesn't ;)
04:14<@petern>hah
04:14<@petern>why is that?
04:14*Celestar is happy that KDE tries to open pngs in gxine :S
04:15<@Rubidium>because Bjarni needs to get his head around icu on OSX
04:15<@petern>@seen bjarni
04:15<@DorpsGek>petern: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 4 days, 11 hours, 47 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <ln-> well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case. <-- sort off.... I'm totally tired and I missed everything at uni this week
04:15<@petern>oh
04:15<@Rubidium>and make some libraries for the CF
04:18*Rubidium still wonders whether fontconfig would be useful for DOS
04:19*Celestar wonders why lsof never ends :P
04:19<@petern>lots of files open, or stuck on one?
04:19<@petern>hmm, something is using a lot of memory
04:19<@petern>switching tasks is taking ages
04:19<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/dos_patch.diff <- why is DOS more like Unix than it is like Windows?
04:19<@petern>and i have 2GB :o
04:20<@Celestar>Rubidium: because DOS was derived from unix?
04:21<@petern>in which world?
04:21-!-nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
04:22<@petern>hmm, quitting firefox freed nothing :o
04:22<@petern>well, 130MB
04:22<@Rubidium>our one? As the dos port uses unix.cpp ;)
04:23<@petern>a svchost.exe at 79MB... :o
04:23<@petern>audioendpointbuilder :o
04:25<@Celestar>don't you love that OS?
04:25<@petern>not really
04:25<@petern>although
04:25<@petern>it runs way better on my q6600 than this pos amd x2
04:25<@Celestar>is that a Vista?
04:26<@Celestar>meh.
04:26<@Celestar>I can't use wget to download a closed mediawiki :(
04:27<@petern>yeah
04:27<@petern>vista business
04:27<@petern>hmm, openoffice is apparently using 14MB
04:27<@petern>which is unlikely
04:27<@Celestar>who incompetent idiot creates an OS that doesn't run properly on a 64-bit Dual Core CPU?
04:27<@Celestar>s/who/what/
04:27<@petern>...
04:28<@Celestar>or right. Microsoft, I forgot :P
04:28<@Rubidium>Celestar: the same company that made Allegro add a i_love_bill global variable?
04:29<@Celestar>er what?!
04:29<@petern>right, 1.49GB used
04:30<@petern>with, er, putty, explorer, taskmanager, and sumatra pdf open...
04:30<@Rubidium>Celestar: http://alleg.sourceforge.net/stabledocs/en/alleg036.html#i_love_bill
04:31<@Celestar>petern: ok with acroread that would be 2.49 GB possibly
04:31<@Celestar>Rubidium: lol
04:31<@petern>yes, well, acroread can fuck off :)
04:32<@Celestar># free -m total used free shared buffers cached
04:32<@Celestar>Mem: 2026 1715 310 0 0 798
04:32<@Celestar>-/+ buffers/cache: 917 1108
04:32<@Celestar>917 MB used
04:33*petern uninstalls openttd
04:33<@petern>(0.6.3-rc1 is not that useful)
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04:38<@orudge>[09:19:54] <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/dos_patch.diff <- why is DOS more like Unix than it is like Windows? <-- s/DOS/DJGPP/. If you were to use the Microsoft C compiler, you'd probably find it has a fair bit more in common with Windows ;)
04:38<@petern>aww, excluding high resolutions? :o
04:38<@orudge>technically, the OS/2 port can mostly use unix.cpp, too
04:39*orudge could use high resolutions with Allegro and DJGPP, back in the day
04:39<@orudge>got my S3 ViRGE up to something like 1600x1200, at least. My 15" monitor never liked it, of course.
04:39<@petern>"Force DOS builds to ALWAYS use full screen" < desqview or similar?
04:39<@Rubidium>petern: Allegro's backends can't handle more than 1024x768
04:39<@orudge>Rubidium: sure it can
04:39<@petern>or was that textmode? hmm
04:40<@petern>does allegro use a vesa interface?
04:40<@orudge>It can do
04:40<@petern>hmm
04:40<@Rubidium>resolutions > 1024x768 did reliably crash on my system
04:40<@orudge>the DOS version tries various methods
04:40<@orudge>Rubidium: you ideally need a suitably old video card
04:40<@orudge>modern graphics cards have bad DOS support
04:41<@Rubidium>and so did windows mode :(
04:41<@Rubidium>s/windows/windowed/
04:41<@orudge>http://alleg.sourceforge.net/stabledocs/en/alleg036.html#GFX_*/DOS
04:42<@petern>aww, i remember scitech display doctor...
04:42<@petern>i hope that wasn't their only product
04:43<@orudge>Scitech Display Doctor is still somewhat available for OS/2
04:43<@petern>hmm, allegro has no GUS support? :o
04:44<@orudge>http://www.owenrudge.net/various/dos-network.diff <-- a bit messy, I don't remember now why network includes were shuffled around, but presumably there was a reason for it ;)
04:44<@orudge>eek, 9.44am
04:45<@orudge>time for me to go
04:45<@Rubidium>petern: it plays TTD midis (if set up properly)
04:49<Brianetta>Rubidium: Any idea what happened to TTD's original MIDI playing code, in terms of OpenTTD?
04:50<Brianetta>I only ask because I have an actual MIDI device (:
04:50<@petern>nothing
04:51<@petern>ttd for windows would've used windows' midi gumpf
04:51<@petern>i assume, heh
04:51<Brianetta>TTD for DOS wouldn't, though
04:51<Brianetta>It'd just send the MIDI commands to the relevant IO port
04:51<Brianetta>and touch the IRQ to have it dealt with
04:51<@Celestar>300
04:51<@petern>correct but openttd is not based on ttd for dos
04:51<@Celestar>300h
04:51<Brianetta>Shame
04:52<Brianetta>I have a /dev/midi
04:52<@petern>that interface is probably not the same as the hardware IO port interface, anyway...
04:52<Brianetta>I have to say, though, that when I use pmidi to play the .gm files from TTD, they can sound a bit... added cowbell.
04:53<@petern>well they're meant for fm synths, i guess
04:53<Brianetta>Yeah... not a really nice Roland digital piano )-:
04:53<Brianetta>Although when they're good, they're good
04:54*Brianetta has had Greensleeves stuck in his brain today
04:54<Brianetta>Serves me right for practising piano first thing
04:55<@petern>heh
04:56-!-Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-19.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd
04:57<Brianetta>Le Vikthor is le back
05:02<@orudge>OpenTTD for DOS can, of course, use proper MIDI devices
05:03<@orudge>as the Allegro MIDI drivers can use FM synth, General MIDI, and a few other things
05:04<Vikthor>Bonjour, Le Brianetta :P
05:05<@Rubidium>isn't there a rule that anything ending with an 'a' is female in French?
05:05<Brianetta>OpenTTD for Linux appears to be able on only to use external programs.
05:06<Brianetta>Rubidium: Who knows?
05:06<Brianetta>Or cares?
05:06<Vikthor>Rubidium: Dont't know but Brianetta is not female anyway AFAIK
05:06<@Rubidium>Brianetta/glx should know
05:06*Brianetta will ask him
05:07<Brianetta>I'm not normally female.
05:07<Brianetta>I was once made an honorary member of that gender, though
05:07<@orudge>[10:05:47] <Brianetta> OpenTTD for Linux appears to be able on only to use external programs. <-- well, with an Allegro driver, OpenTTD for Linux would not require external programs
05:09<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/openttd-custom-h6b408b83M-DOS.zip <- without network though
05:09<@orudge>so you got the graphics driver working then?
05:10*orudge may try that later when he is home
05:15<@Rubidium>that I had working yesterday ;)
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05:32<gynter>hello
05:34<@petern>i wonder if MB would use the DOS version... hehe
05:35*petern attempts to get VS 2003 to work under vista
05:35<@Celestar>petern: why do you do this to yourself?
05:37<AgentLeMan>no one else can.
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05:55<@petern>Celestar, for my job
05:55<@petern>hmm
05:55<@petern>i thought nvidia 7 series was not dx10?
05:56<@orudge>tisn't
05:57<@orudge>the 8 series might be, but I don't quite remember
05:57<@petern>well
05:57<@petern>it says dx10 in nvidia info
05:57<@petern>dx version 10, geforce 7900 gt/gto
05:58<@orudge>hmm
05:58<@orudge>maybe that just means that DirectX 10 is installed
05:58<@petern>not actually tried anything that requires dx10 though
05:58<@orudge>not that it's DX10-capable
05:58<@petern>possibly, but that's pretty silly
05:58<@orudge>my 7800GT wasn't DirectX10-capable
05:58<@petern>it's certainly a g71
05:59<@petern>hm
05:59<@petern>anyway
05:59<@petern>it does not matter, as it's a business pc :p
05:59<@orudge>my GTX260 is DirectX 10 capable, but I haven't yet actually rebooted into Vista since installing it
05:59<@orudge>nor do I have any games installed there anyway
06:00<@petern>heh
06:00<@petern>i didn't try bioshock in dx9
06:02<@orudge>well
06:02<@orudge>it seems to work fine for me on XP :p
06:02<appe>i have injured my left biceps
06:02<appe>:/
06:02<appe>pretty bad, too
06:03*petern tries out evolution for windows
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>that's from all the masturbating, appe.
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06:39<@petern>heh
06:39<@petern>my pc is connected at 1 gbit/s to my phone, and then from there is 100 mbit/s :o
06:51*petern installs XP in a virtual machine
06:51<@Celestar>:P
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07:13<blathijs>petern: Wait, your phone has a 100mbit/s internet connection and a 1gbit/s USB plug, or what?
07:15<@petern>er
07:15<@petern>usb?
07:15<@petern>it has two 1gibt/s ports
07:15<@petern>the switch is 100mbit/s...
07:15<blathijs>Your phone has ethernet ports?
07:15<blathijs>two of them? Cool :-)
07:21<@petern>yeah
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07:53<@petern>cisco 7971g i think it is
07:53<Gekz>I hate at my cisco router now :/
07:53<Gekz>it takes too long to connect to DSL
07:54<@petern>well don't disconnect it ;)
07:54<Gekz>I dont disconnect it
07:54<Gekz>the crappy line does it for me
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09:11*Celestar just booked his first ever TGV ticket :P
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09:13<@Celestar>155 EUR
09:13<@Celestar>Munich-Paris round trip with frankfurt stopover
09:18<@Belugas>don't forget to pick up sausages!
09:19<@Celestar>??
09:21<@Rubidium>Celestar: Frankfurter: a sausage as made in Frankfurt; a hot dog
09:21<@Celestar>don't like em
09:21<@Celestar>bah
09:21<@Celestar>none of these crappy modern trains seem to have compartments
09:23<@Celestar>I want my comparments back :((
09:23<appe>ich bin ein berliner
09:23<appe>ich bin ein frankfurter, ich bin ein hamburger
09:24<appe>as mr izzard said.
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>"In Halle gibt es Halloren, Hallenser und Halunken"
09:33<@Celestar>maybe I should do a personal review of TGV vs ICE3
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09:37-!-[alt]buster is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
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09:57<Swallow>Can 'normal' vehicles possibly have a non-company owner?
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>why shouldn't they be able to?
10:00<Swallow>Normally towns don't own vehicles by themselves..
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>that was not the question
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10:24<@Celestar>meh
10:25<@Celestar>why are most PSU for computers rated at 500W+ :S
10:25<@Celestar>I don't want to build those kind of computers
10:26<+glx>you are not forced to consume 500W
10:26<Aali>surely you can still find 350-400W ones?
10:26<@Belugas>junkyard :)
10:26<@Celestar>Aali: for a box that will idle at around 60W and peak at around 90-100W ...
10:26<dihedral>Celestar: that does not mean it will eat that much power - you do know that right?
10:27<Aali>Celestar: so?
10:27<@Celestar>glx: no, but below about 20% load, the efficiency drops significantly
10:27<@Celestar>is if you have a 500W PSU and your comp pulls 60W, it is likely that you pull around 100-120W from the outlet
10:28<Aali>apaarently, i can still get 270W ones
10:28<@Celestar>with a 200W you get that down to around 70W
10:28<@Celestar>Aali: yeah you can. but you need to look for them :P
10:28<mrfrenzy>Celestar: that only applies to cheap psus
10:28<@petern>well, i got a 500W PSU
10:28<Aali>actually, no, its available where i usually buy all my computer parts
10:28<@petern>because i didn't fancy running a core 2 quad and an 8800GT on much less
10:28<Aali>so i dont need to look for them :P
10:28<mrfrenzy>a good brand psu will only use a few watts at idle regardless if it's max rating is 50W or 500W
10:29<@Celestar>he picoPSU is fun
10:30<@Celestar>maybe I should just go for a notebook :P
10:31<@Celestar>can get them down to 12W idle
10:32-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1E11C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:32<@Celestar>well I even got mine down to 9W with a few tricks
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10:34<@Celestar>so you can save about 200 EUR per year at 24/7 run
10:34<@Celestar>maybe 150 if unlucky
10:34<Fantasya>really?
10:35<Fantasya>how?
10:35<@Celestar>by having your home server in the basement running on a notebook
10:36<Fantasya>what server? :)
10:36<@Celestar>the one I don't have (yet)
10:36<@Celestar>(=
10:36<Fantasya>ttd?
10:37<@Celestar>I was more think about a media server
10:37<@Celestar>like putting all the DVDs on it instead of having the disks lying around
10:37<Aali>the best part of running servers on notebooks: built-in UPS
10:37<@Celestar>Aali: yes.
10:37<@Celestar>not sure about the external HDD however, unless it is 2.5"
10:38<Aali>the worst part of running servers on notebooks: they overheat easily and are generally of shitty quality compared to real server hardware
10:39<@Celestar>Aali: Real-server hardware isn't cheap however.
10:39<Aali>i didn't say it was :)
10:39<@Celestar>so I can buy multiple notebooks for one of those servers, and I've never had a notebook overheat
10:39<@Celestar>and if you run a server on it. CPU load will be pretty lowish
10:39<Aali>you can get used servers for free if you know the right people
10:40<@Celestar>yeah, but they still suck about 200 Watts at idle
10:40<@Celestar>maybe even more like 300 ..
10:41<Aali>that depends, but a laptop will probably use less
10:41<@Celestar>let's be pessimistic and say 25 Watts.
10:41<@Celestar>compared to 100 Watts
10:41<@Celestar>(For a desktop system which is not carefully designed)
10:42<@Celestar>over three years, that's 450 EUR saved in power costs
10:44<@Celestar>now let's say we get the laptop to 20Watts and the "free" server hardware pulls 200 Watts, that's about 1100 EUR saved in power costs over three years.
10:44<@Celestar>suddenly, the "free" hardware doesn't look that free anymore
10:48<Aali>sure
10:51<mrfrenzy>Celestar: if you want a powersaving server, atleast buy one that is designed for such use
10:52<mrfrenzy>a laptop will fail either with motherboard caps, overheated driver or other problems after continuous use
10:53<Aali>it boils down too how much your data/uptime is worth
10:53<@Celestar>mrfrenzy: hence I'm trying to design on around a mobile CPU
10:54<Aali>unless you use sony laptops that burst into flames and take your home with them :)
10:54<mrfrenzy>there are already people who have done this
10:54<mrfrenzy>if it's just for home usage, look at nslu, you can't get lower consumption than that
10:55<@Celestar>well, it's just an idea up to now :)
10:55<@Celestar>and I gotta go
10:55<@Celestar>cu later :D
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11:13<@Belugas>aligator
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11:31<@petern>i want low power servers for rubbish things like name servers and mail relays...
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11:43<Brianetta>petern: Tranquil PC
11:43<Brianetta>Personal recommendation
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11:48<nicfer>hmmm, would be possible to generate terrains like the ttd ones with companies already funded?
11:49<@petern>hmm, they don't do any rackmount kit?
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11:52<@petern>hmm, do oppy 275s support hw virtualization?
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12:04<@Belugas>nicfer, i guess it could be possible. If someone gives himself the trouble of doing so. And if that someone finds it usefull. Somehow, i don't feel like that someone
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12:24<@petern>http://www0.us.ioccc.org/1990/westley.c
12:32<gynter>do you need original game files for dedicated server?
12:35<+glx>yes
12:36<gynter>where can I buy the game?
12:36<gynter>lemme quess. amazon?
12:37<@petern>probably not actually, heh
12:38<gynter>hmm
12:38<gynter>$40 for new in amazon
12:38<gynter>+ transport
12:38<@petern>£14.99 hmm
12:38<gynter>used
12:38<@petern>unlikely that anyone has any stock :p
12:39<gynter>thats so sad, i google for buy transport tycoon deluxe and it gives me thousands of DL links...
12:39<@petern>yes
12:40<@petern>well oddly enough, most people ask where to download it
12:40<vraa>it's not abandonware yet?
12:40<@petern>because search engines are so hard to use
12:40<gynter>vraa, afaik not
12:40<@petern>vraa, no such thing...
12:40*Prof_Frink mumbles something about 3407
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12:52<@petern>3407?
12:52<@petern>oh
12:55<gynter>3407 ?
12:55<gynter>whats that
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13:01<Prof_Frink>gynter: Oh, nothing. You certainly wouldn't want to google "transport tycoon 3407".
13:02<Sacro>:o
13:02<Sacro>WAREZ
13:02<Sacro>Prof_Frink: http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=transport+tycoon+3407
13:03<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Pffft.
13:03<Prof_Frink>I don't want to google it either.
13:03<Sacro>ris?
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13:27*Sacro ponders replying somethign about btoh OpenTTD and the Dreamcast being turing complient
13:28<SpComb>only if you post a working example of OpenTTD implemented using brainfuck while you're at it
13:29<benjamingoodger>I asked some time ago whether OTTD was turing compliant
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13:29<benjamingoodger>someone said "yes, we just implemented NAND"
13:29<benjamingoodger>so I thought I might implement an 8080 microprocessor in OTTD for a summer project
13:30<Wolf01>hello
13:30<benjamingoodger>and then completely forgot about it
13:30<@petern>turing compliant?
13:30<benjamingoodger>yes
13:30<benjamingoodger>i.e., "fully programmable"
13:30<@petern>is that different from the more usual "turing complete"?
13:30<benjamingoodger>don't think so
13:34<AgentLeMan>°blinks°
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13:39<welshdragon>what is the context of the string 'conditional order jump'?
13:39*welshdragon is trying to translate it into welsh
13:40<welshdragon>and order has 15 different meanings :(
13:40<@petern>orders
13:41<AgentLeMan>problem solved. °snickers°
13:41<welshdragon>hmm
13:41<@Rubidium>welshdragon: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/images/2/20/Openttd_orders_screenshot_strip.png
13:43<welshdragon>which one of: http://www.geiriadur.net/atebion.php?PHPSESSID=27c506892e7668574f41c9d83cd4ffb4&direction=ew&term=order&type=all&whichpart=exact&prefLang=en&uni=y would you say is correct? (just say the english, i will pick the right welsh one)
13:44<@petern>have you never played this game?
13:44<@petern>do you really not know what an order is?
13:44<welshdragon>yes, but not with those advanced orders :D
13:45<welshdragon>oh feck it, i'll pick one :)
13:45<AgentLeMan>welshdragon, try "siars" for "command" maybe
13:46<Wolf01>I have a problem with the horses :O
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>the only welsh i know is "Nid wyf yn y swyddfa ar hyn o bryd. Anfonwch unrhyw waith i'w gyfieithu."
13:48<Sacro>Wolf01: oh aye ;)
13:48<Wolf01>a long time ago, in a far away computer I tried to start a game with eGRVTS, when I use horses they skip the orders, but other vehicles don't
13:48<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause, haha
13:48*welshdragon lol'd at that error
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/fail-owned-welsh-translation-fail.jpg
13:48<Wolf01>I think is because articulated road vehicles can't enter in road stations but only roadstops
13:49<AgentLeMan>Wolf01, you used the wrong type of horse ;oP try breweryhorses, they are too heavy to jump
13:49<benjamingoodger>Eddi|zuHause: that's quite old :P
13:49<benjamingoodger>it was national news
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>not in my nation :p
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15:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r14637 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/arabic_egypt.txt: -Add: stub for Arabic (Egypt).
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>why are all those weird languages popping up suddenly?
15:21<benjamingoodger>weirdos
15:21<@petern>someone has too much free time
15:22<benjamingoodger>as I said :P
15:22<@petern>no you didn't
15:24<benjamingoodger>I said "weirdos" at least
15:24<benjamingoodger>this was intended to mean "people with too much spare time", "social outcasts", etc
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15:44<Eddi|zuHause>benjamingoodger: i think that statement is highly offensive
15:44<benjamingoodger>understandable
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>and you don't even seem to realise what you actually said
15:45<Sacro>http://www.keyboardforblondes.com/keyboard_bigger.html
15:46<benjamingoodger>if everyone who spent their free time editing the Latin wikipedia, or translating openttd into ever more obscure dialects of languages, worked overtime instead, and then donated the money to charity, the world would be greatly improved
15:47<mrfrenzy>are you sure the world would be a better place?
15:47<mrfrenzy>maybe more is gained if they train their intellect by working on openttd
15:47<mrfrenzy>or by latin people getting access to wikipedia and later developing some important ideas
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>no, you insult people who try to make sure that a program is translated in their language, and who then make sure that other people in that country use the program who would otherwise not have access to it
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>insulting people's nationality is one of the worst things that pople can do
15:48<@petern>arabic is not exactly obscure
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15:49<Eddi|zuHause>the world would be a better place when people would respect that
15:49<yorick>mrfenzy: you actually have latin people 'round that know how to use wikipedia?
15:49<benjamingoodger>"latin people" means nobody at all. nobody in the _world_ speaks latin natively. it is, entirely, a waste of time to translate anything newly into latin
15:50<mrfrenzy>sorry, when I read latin I was thinking mexicans
15:50<@petern>...
15:50<yorick>mh, don't they speak latin in Vatican City?
15:50<@petern>well there's a couple of similar letters, i suppose
15:51<mrfrenzy>latinamerican you know
15:51<benjamingoodger>heh :D
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>benjamingoodger: it's already a huge insult to compare arabic to latin...
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>probably more people speak arabic than most other languages that openttd is translated to
15:53<@petern>pig latin, now that's a really useful translation :p
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>i never understood why you actually went through with that... :p
15:54<@petern>well
15:54<@petern>if it was up to me...
15:54<benjamingoodger>well, I'm not going to defend myself. I just don't think it's a valid use of anyone's time, translating a computer game into egyptian arabic
15:54<benjamingoodger>or indeed into pig latin. shame on you, sir
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>but people who enjoy toyland would probably also enjoy pig latin :p
15:55<benjamingoodger>well, I think toyland was also an invalid use of microprose's time
15:55<@petern>pig latin is fucking pointless
15:55<benjamingoodger>:P
15:55<@petern>egyptian arabic is not
15:55-!-questionmark [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
15:55<@petern>it is, for example, a real language
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>... which several million people speak
15:56<@petern>esperanto is pretty pointless :D
15:56<@petern>and i've never heard of "original vehicle names"
15:56<benjamingoodger>since I am aware that you only said that to annoy me, I shan't rise to it
15:56<@petern>anyway
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>i, for example was not discriminating against the language, i just pointed at the fact that there is an increase in the number of new languages lately
15:57<@petern>no, it was said because your viewpoint is wrong
15:57<benjamingoodger>anyway, you said it was weird
15:57<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: ever read the news?
15:57<@petern>1) spend your free time translating to a language
15:57<benjamingoodger>I merely said it was a waste of someone's time, translating a computer game into it. at least I had some sort of reason
15:57<@petern>vs
15:57<@petern>2) working over time and giving money away
15:58<@petern>wtf is that about
15:58<@petern>no
15:58<@petern>not a reason at all
15:58<benjamingoodger>well, some sort of _argument_
15:58<benjamingoodger>not just saying it's weird
15:58<@Rubidium>vs 3) spend your free time discussing which languages a game should/should not be translated to
15:58<benjamingoodger>what do you mean "wtf is that about?" I thought I made myself perfectly clear
15:58<@petern>Rubidium :D
15:59<@petern>yes
15:59<@petern>you made it clear that you are a fucking idiot
15:59<benjamingoodger>stop using the enter key instead of comma, it's very _very_ annoying
15:59*frosch123 spents about 83 cent every day to be able to join this channel
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>benjamingoodger: even worse, my question was actually purely rhethorical, because i know exactly the reason why new languages are being introduced
15:59<benjamingoodger>and you don't need to degenerate into petty name-calling, this isn't a climatology debate
16:00<frosch123>how much food can you buy with 83 cents in certain countries?
16:00<benjamingoodger>quite a bit
16:00<@Rubidium>frosch123: ranging from a few meal to nothing
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: how much money does it cost to transfer 83 cents to those countries?
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16:01<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: about 6-8 euros (assuming they don't use IBAN)
16:01<frosch123>it does not solve the problem when there is no food to buy though
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16:01<yorick>83 zimbabwanian dollarcents?
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16:02<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure he meant eurocents ;)
16:02<yorick>how many zimbabwanian dollars are that?
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>twice that next week ;)
16:03-!-sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>(at least that was the inflation rate during the german hyperinflation)
16:04<yorick>they're currently at 231 million % and some more
16:04<@petern>i wonder how long till we're (in the uk) all doomed
16:04<benjamingoodger>slightly better than zimbabwe's, then
16:05-!-rortom [~rortom_@5aca9752.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
16:05<benjamingoodger>petern: GB's criteria for joining the eurozone is euro-sterling parity
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16:05<benjamingoodger>so we will be printing our first euro banknotes tomorrow afternoon
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>the question is if we would actually still want you to join at that point :p
16:06<benjamingoodger>indeed, indeed...
16:06<@petern>that's about the right amount of notice
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16:06<yorick>"Zimbabwe hyperinflation is set to surpass post Second World War Hungary's hyperinflation(12.95 quadrillion percent per month, ie. prices doubling every 15.6 hours) by the end of 2008"
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>13 quadrillions? how much is that in real millions?
16:07<benjamingoodger>13 quadrillion == 13.000 trillion
16:07<benjamingoodger>== 13 billion billion
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>that was not my question
16:08<benjamingoodger>== 13 million million million
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>because in real millions, 1 quadrillion is 1 million trillions
16:08<@petern>:o
16:08<benjamingoodger>I think you're referring to the long scale rather than "real" millions
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>which is clearly not what is meant
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the real long scale
16:09<benjamingoodger>¬.¬
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>the one that the entire world uses
16:09<@petern>13,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000?
16:09<yorick>%
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16:09<@petern>oh
16:09<@petern>13,000,000,000,000,000?
16:09<rortom>hi all
16:09<yorick>hi rortom
16:10<rortom>yorick, saw bug report?
16:10<yorick>where?
16:11<benjamingoodger>note that the long-scale million is the same as the short-scale million
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>so 13 billiard is the answer?
16:11<rortom>yorick: topic of #openttd-python
16:11<benjamingoodger>the short-scale quadrillion is equal to the long-scale billiard
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>see? it wasn't that difficult, was it?
16:12<@petern>feh, they should just use 13*10^15 notation...
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>and now i actually have an impression of the size of the number
16:12<@petern>indeed
16:12<benjamingoodger>what is the number?
16:13<@petern>...
16:14<yorick>it's the inflation Zimbabwe is expected to reach end 2008
16:14<benjamingoodger>GDP of the european union?
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>do you actually read anything that is said?
16:15<Vikthor>I am afraid GDP of EU takes opposite heading
16:15<@petern>probably has yorick on ignore
16:15<@petern>which is... understandable sometimes :p
16:15<benjamingoodger>aha! yes, that's it!
16:15<rortom>lol :p
16:15<benjamingoodger>sorry, yorick, I forgot
16:15<yorick>:D
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>right... i should have considered that :p
16:16<benjamingoodger>how do I un-ignore someone? :(
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>/unignore <someone's hostmask>
16:16<benjamingoodger>thank you, sir
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>or go to the ignore list of your client
16:17<benjamingoodger>yeah, I've never been able to find one... :S
16:18<benjamingoodger>so what was the number, in the end?
16:18<@petern>zambabwean inflation
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>no, hungarian inflation as reference ;)
16:19<benjamingoodger>ah
16:19<@petern>oh
16:19-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B82DB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:19*yorick slaps benjamingoodger
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>interestingly, we did not learn about that inflation in school...
16:20<yorick>secret :]
16:21<benjamingoodger>interesting indeed
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16:22<Eddi|zuHause>the only thing we got taught about hungary after WW I is the uprise in 1956
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>nothing about what happened inbetween...
16:24<benjamingoodger>this is very good ~~~ http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8860158196198824415
16:25<yorick>"One source states that this hyperinflation was purposely started by trained Russian Marxists in order to destroy the Hungarian middle and upper classes."
16:25<yorick>what's with offtopic youtube links?
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16:36<frosch123>yorick: they are no problem when the poster is /ignored by all except DorpsGek :p
16:37*benjamingoodger finally correctly unignores yorick
16:39<yorick>benjamingoodger: really?
16:39<benjamingoodger>yep
16:40*rortom <3 cmake
16:40<benjamingoodger>I'm sure
16:41<rortom>build ing ogre and 5 plugins and RoR like a charm :D
16:42<yorick>cmake :o
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16:44<benjamingoodger>:)
16:45<yorick>gui :/
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16:57<Wolf01>'night
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16:58<rortom>petern: ror working again :)
16:58<rortom>one step closer to get it done
16:58<@petern>who what?
16:59<@petern>what compiler/environment do you use?
16:59<@petern>i was thinking of playing with ogre a little
17:00<@petern>but, uh, vs c++ 2008 express sucks
17:02<rortom>hehe
17:03<rortom>i just finished switching RoR to cmake
17:03<rortom>im very pleased of how it works atm
17:03<rortom>im working on linux x86 currently
17:03<@petern>i only ever wanted 64 bit linux support ;(
17:04<@petern>updated ubuntu packages'd be nice
17:04<rortom>i will compile one version for you, dont worry ;)
17:04<@petern>i know someone who can make those *cough*
17:04<rortom>:p
17:04<rortom>sano was the ubuntu package maintainer so far
17:04<rortom>the problem was that we didnt release an update for linux, and now its too late
17:05<@petern>we all know what the real problem is
17:05<@petern>but never mind
17:05<@petern>things are the way things are
17:05<rortom>yeah :\
17:05<+glx>cmake looks good indeed, but it failed to give me a working allegro5
17:06<+glx>though it may be related to allegro5 not being stable
17:06<rortom>hehe ;)
17:06<rortom>the scripting in cmake can get complex
17:07<@petern>ogre itself is complex enough for me :o
17:07<rortom>but i think its still easier then the horror of SCons
17:07<rortom>oh, for sure ;)
17:07<rortom>i searched a bug like one week now
17:07<rortom>and i found it in the DDS unpack method of ogre ...
17:08<rortom>once you got behind the ogre concept, things are getting easy :)
17:08<rortom>also, those guys from transport empire anything are using ogre for their engine
17:08-!-Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
17:09<@petern>the guy is, yes
17:09<rortom>indeed ;)
17:10<rortom>i wanted to help, but i cannot find time for anything :\
17:10<+glx>rortom: btw does switching to cmake means 0.36 is near ?
17:11<@petern>hmm, is TE more open now?
17:11<@petern>last time i tried to comment on something the forums were locked down
17:12<rortom>not necessarily ;)
17:12<rortom>@ glx
17:12<rortom>we nearly recoded our resource management
17:12<rortom>so lots of changes
17:12<rortom>new installation method using a system like xplane, etc
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17:16<rortom>petern you can code on a new editor ;)
17:16<rortom>using ogre, c++, wxwidgets and the middle connection :)
17:16<rortom>see http://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41153
17:16<rortom>or http://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=316377#316377
17:22<@petern>hmm?
17:22<rortom>as an exercise for you i mean ;)
17:23<rortom>i want to crap the ror toolkit (thats using python)
17:23<@petern>ahh
17:23<rortom>maybe i should start working on some version and you can join the team? :p
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17:27<@petern>hee
17:28<@petern>hmm, braking is odd
17:28<Jango>anyone done any work on ID3 tags?
17:28<Jango>i need a decent library
17:28<Jango>in php, python, java or something
17:28<@petern>a high speed is slows rapidly... at lower speeds it slows less
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17:29<rortom>Jango, im sure the is something
17:29<rortom>petern you mean in RoR?
17:29<@petern>yeah
17:30<Jango>yeah, undoubtably, wheat in the chaff somewhere
17:30<rortom>we should improve it, thats correct ;)
17:30<Jango>but i don't want to waste my time sifting :)
17:30<rortom>lol
17:30<@petern>rortom, is there a roadmap for ror?
17:32<rortom>mh, not really
17:32<rortom>atm we concentrate on getting 0.36 out ;)
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17:33<+glx>will it allows more flexbody vehicles without ugly artifact?
17:33<rortom>yes
17:34<rortom>thats fixed like since 4 months ago
17:34<rortom>but it will ship with 0.36
17:34<+glx>not in 0.35+flexbody ;)
17:34<rortom>yea ;)
17:34<rortom>we fixed it shortly after that
17:35<rortom>actually it should be possible to convert a xml file by hand, but no one tried it so far ;)
17:35<@petern>artifacts?
17:35<rortom>some 3d model exportes use shared vertices and some not
17:35<+glx>yes you can't use 2 identical flexbody vehicles at the same time
17:35<rortom>oh, that. That was a one line bugfix ;)
17:35<@petern>hmm
17:36<@petern>never did that, heh
17:36<@petern>i only noticed the wheels when using 'k' ...
17:36<+glx>funny to watch the non driven one's body follow the direction of the driven one
17:38<rortom>;)
17:40<nicfer>one question, will be ported to 0.6.4 (if that's even released) the trunk's ability to read the opengfx files?
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17:45<+glx>probably not
17:45<@petern>i'd say defintely not
17:46<@petern>also
17:46<@petern>google sketchup is the simplest 3d design program i've ever used :o
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17:54<rortom>petern its the simplest and worst for moddeling anything of value
17:54<rortom>since it exports in horrible ways
17:55<benjamingoodger>'tis
17:55<@petern>nah, everything else imports in horrible way s;)
17:55<rortom>no
17:55<benjamingoodger>I also find it improbably difficult to use, but my brain doesn't like 3d visualisation anyway
17:55<rortom>its internal texture handling is horrible
17:56<rortom>the sketchup->ogre guy can tell you something :p
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause>i'm afraid this channel is going way off-topic every time rortom speaks :p
17:59<rortom>;)
18:00<benjamingoodger>:)
18:00<rortom>we can also speak about my ottd stations GUI :p
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18:02<TMS>How would I go about getting my dedicated (openttd.exe -D) server's stats on a web page?
18:02<TMS>simply doing it on the OTTD website isn't enough for me. :o
18:04<rortom>there is a stats thing somewhere
18:04<rortom>or install the ottd python bot :p
18:04<TMS>:O
18:04<TMS>Where?
18:04<TMS>Either one is fine.
18:05<rortom>http://code.google.com/p/openttd-python/
18:05<TMS>I might be afk for about 2 hours within the next half hour but I'll probably be back after that, so if you can come up with a answer soon, that'd be great.
18:07<TMS>well, if there's any possible way of gathering the data into a database that'd be great
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18:08<rortom>thats what the bot does
18:08<rortom>but its currently very limited
18:09<rortom>so you may want to use the autopilot / php frontend thingy
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18:28<fjb>What are the effects of inflation?
18:28<vraa>lower unemployment
18:28<SmatZ>fjb: prices and max loan growing
18:29<SmatZ>in TTD world
18:29<vraa>oh
18:29<vraa>of course
18:29<SmatZ>:)
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18:30<fjb>I was asking about the game world. Does everything grow in the same way?
18:30<SmatZ>do you mean exponentially?
18:30<@petern>cargo grows at 1 percentage point less than everything else
18:30<@petern>cargo payment rates
18:31<rortom>petern http://roreditor.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/roreditor/cppeditor/
18:31<rortom>new cpp editor home ;)
18:31<@petern>woo
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18:31<fjb>petern: Thank you. That would explain a lot. I'm always going bankrupt around 1940 when starting in 1831.
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18:33*petern heads to bed
18:34<fjb>Good night petern
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, higher difficulty actually reduces this spread ;)
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>the (geometric) difference between 4% and 3% is less than between 2% and 1%
18:37<fjb>And the value depends on the difficulty setting?
18:38-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>yes, interest rate in the difficulty setting
18:38<fjb>Ah, ok.
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>afaik, inflation stops overall after 150 years, but i'm not entirely sure about that
18:39<fjb>That was low in this game. Still trying to ballance the game with the startdate of 1831.
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20:26<white_gecko>hello
20:27<white_gecko>If I want do add a port to the order of a ship i get an error
20:27<Patrick>does the error tell you it is too far from a buoy?
20:27<SmatZ>hello white_gecko
20:27<Patrick>the solution is to build more buoys
20:28<SmatZ>good reply :)
20:28<white_gecko>what is a buoy?
20:29<white_gecko>is it a hanga in german ?
20:29<Patrick>possibly
20:29<white_gecko>ah a boje
20:29<white_gecko>hm it tells mit it is to far from the destination
20:30<Patrick>yes, set some waypoints in the middle on a boje
20:30<Patrick>hey, is it true that singing deutschland uber alles is illegal?
20:32<white_gecko>i don't know
20:33<white_gecko>i have heared it is not ilegal, but it is not part of the german anthem anymore
20:33<white_gecko>but it still belongs to the song of fallersleben and that is an historical song
20:35<white_gecko>what is about the time in the orders
20:36<white_gecko>in the timetable
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20:37<white_gecko>can i set times less then one day?
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20:40<Patrick>yes
20:40<Patrick>there's a patch option
20:40<Patrick>use ticks instead of days
20:40<Patrick>and ticks are shorter
20:40<white_gecko>so i need this pathc
20:40<white_gecko>hm
20:41<white_gecko>but why are days the default unit? days are to long
20:41<SmatZ>because people count in days
20:41<white_gecko>hm ok no the aren't
20:41<SmatZ>and don't know anything about ticks
20:41<SmatZ>like, how many ticks are there in day
20:41<white_gecko>i didn't think yout that days are about two seconds in real lief
20:41<white_gecko>life
20:42<white_gecko>how may ticks are?
20:42<SmatZ>do you know how many ticks == 1 day in OTTD?
20:42<white_gecko>no
20:42<SmatZ>74
20:42<SmatZ>so you would be confused too :)
20:43<white_gecko>no i'm not :-D
20:43<white_gecko>and how does the auto thing work?
20:43<SmatZ>when you use timetable autofill, the value is filled in tick-exact time
20:43<SmatZ>sorry I can't explain all about timetables :-x
20:43<white_gecko>hm
20:43<SmatZ>maybe there is something about it at wiki.openttd.org
20:44<@petern>Eddi|zuHause, is that a bug in the original game?
20:44<@petern>SmatZ would know :D
20:44<white_gecko>but does the auto thing try to optimize the timetable for the best profit?
20:45<SmatZ>petern: have I broken something? :-x
20:45<SmatZ>white_gecko: autofill fills the timetable according to the time needed in the autofill run
20:45<@petern>no
20:45<SmatZ>ah, good :)
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20:47<SmatZ>ah... that "inflation stops after 140 years" (or so) was Rubidium's commit :)
20:47<SmatZ>I think
20:47-!-vraa [~vraa@h148.75.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
20:47<SmatZ>hmm 170 years :)
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20:49<@petern>hmm?
20:49<SmatZ>petern: I don't know what you are talking about
20:49<@petern>23:36 < Eddi|zuHause> well, higher difficulty actually reduces this spread ;)
20:49<@petern>23:36 < Eddi|zuHause> the (geometric) difference between 4% and 3% is less than between 2% and 1%
20:50<@petern>so a low interest is in fact harder
20:50<white_gecko>SmatZ: and what does this mean?
20:50<@petern>*rate
20:51<SmatZ>petern: interesting :) usually you don't have any loan after <10 years though :)
20:51<@petern>SmatZ, nothing to do with loan
20:51<@petern>it's about inflation
20:51<SmatZ>white_gecko: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Timetable should help you :)
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20:55<white_gecko>thynkyou
20:55<white_gecko>thankyou
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21:23<fjb>Patrick: It is not illegal. It is just not part of the anthem. The anthem is the third verse of the Deutschlandlied.
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21:52<TMS>holy crap, people actually want to play on my site's servers. And after adding the server to the OTTD public server list (with my site's link in it) I'm getting a good 15% more hits per hour. o.o
21:52<vraa>nice
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22:10<TMS>Anyone here experienced with openttdlib?
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---Logclosed Thu Nov 27 00:00:33 2008