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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-12-07

---Logopened Sun Dec 07 00:00:06 2008
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03:27<Alberth>Wolf01: hello
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03:46<George_>DaleStan: How do the game selects colours for trees in toyland? Trees are CC in toyland.
03:56<@petern>i'm not dalestan
03:56<@petern>but as far as i can see there is no colour mapping applied
03:57<@petern>i could look in the right place
03:57<@petern>le sigh :p
03:59<@petern>it is hardcoded though
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05:05<George_>petern: hardcoded? well, what is the rule? does it use location (like houses) or something else?
05:06<@petern>it depends on the tree
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05:15<Eddi|zuHause>the colour is stored in the tree type?
05:17<@petern>in the tree data
05:38<George_>does it selected randomly when map genaration happens or when first tree appears?
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06:17<Terkhen>good morning
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06:30<@Celestar>Rubidium: long story short, it's no comparison at all
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06:36*Celestar hasn't been that disappointed by a vehicle in a long time
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06:36<Eddi|zuHause>you mean the TGV disappointed you?
06:36<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: horribly :(
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>anything in particular?
06:37<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: most of all the totally cramped interior
06:38<Eddi|zuHause>well, i have never been on a french train before, so i don't have a comparison
06:38<@Celestar>no space for coats, luggage or anything (most bags were stapled near the exit, leading to a total mess at stations)
06:38<@Celestar>no outlets for laptops/chargers/whatever
06:39<@Celestar>the illumination feel like an operating room at best
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>weird... although i remember that in ICEs, only few wagons had those
06:39<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: the ICE3 has one for every two seats
06:39<@Celestar>it is also more noise and more shaky than the ICE3 at a given speed
06:40<@Celestar>and while the ICE3 seats are (imho) really uncomfortable, those in the TGV managed to 'lower the bar' even more.
06:41<@Celestar>so maybe it was an old train (dunno that), but my verdict upon exiting was: "Never again"
06:41<@Celestar>OTOH: it was on time.
06:42<@Celestar>oh yes: In the bar you get coffee in cups that will cause you to burn your hands till you have reached the seats (or you drop the entire cup onto someone)
06:43<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: the "aisle" between two cars are that narrow that a baby carriage doesn't fit through.
06:43<Eddi|zuHause>funny ;)
06:43<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: the overall feeling you get is a modern RE/RB, not a long distance train.
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06:44<@Celestar>on another note: the first 3 carriages had broken lavatories, since I was in the first one, I had to walk 4 carriages to pee.
06:45<@Celestar>but I thought "ok, that MAY happen"
06:45<@Celestar>but: the LGV Est really rocks :D
06:45<@Celestar>more so in the ICE3MF (=
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06:47<@Celestar>top speed we reached in the ICE3 was 317km/h :D
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06:47<@Celestar>which is really really embarrassing for Germany imho
06:48<@petern>317 seems pretty fast to me
06:49<@Celestar>but it needs to go to France to attain that speed.
06:50<@Celestar>in Germany, it can go "only" up to 300km/h on very short distances, and it mostly seems to do so only when delayed.
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06:52<@petern>so it's basically like the ol' class 43 here
06:52<@petern>which, whilst it could go fast, couldn't
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06:54<@Celestar>because of the sucky tracks in Germany.
06:55<@Celestar>One has to point out that it's much more difficult to build HST in Germany than in France
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>i also assume that the french network is much more centralistic
06:55<@Celestar>the entire LGV-Est (300km) doesn't contain a single tunnel
06:55<@Celestar>most HSTs in Germany have > 25% Tunnels, some up to 50%
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>so the high speed tracks will almost certainly go in star form from paris
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>wich makes them more practical, than a distributed network in germany
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>where you will need several tracks in parallel through the country
06:57<@Celestar>I'm out for lunch a bit
06:57<@Celestar>CU later
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>which means the traffic will also be balanced over the different tracks, making each track less "efficient"
06:58<@Celestar>petern: 317km/h is basically 200mph :D
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07:20<yorick> does it mean "glibc will not build on windows, because no-one ever concidered taking into account that some people use windows"
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07:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14661 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix r14659: oops, forgot to escape '?' ;)
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08:20<yorick>conversion from ~std::_List_const_iterator<CargoShareInfo*>T to non-scalar type ~std::_List_iterator<CargoShareInfo*>T requested <-- what?
08:22<TrueBrain>exactly what it tells you
08:22<@Celestar>yorick: where what?
08:23<TrueBrain>maybe a more readable error would have been: can't convert const to non-const
08:23<TrueBrain>but oh well
08:23<yorick>C++ errors aren't exaclt readable :p
08:23<@Celestar>but they're pretty clear in this case, aren't they?
08:23<@Celestar>_List_const_iterator to _List_iterator
08:23<@Celestar>bad :P
08:23<TrueBrain>Celestar: clearly not for yorick ... then again .. it is yorick :)
08:24*Celestar hides
08:24*yorick hides behind Celestar
08:25*Celestar farts
08:25*yorick slaps Celestar
08:26<TrueBrain>so tempting to kick someone now .. or is that just me? :p
08:26<@Celestar>but whom? *g*
08:28<TrueBrain>not you, you are nice :)
08:28<TrueBrain>you smell, yes
08:28<TrueBrain>but that is just minor details :)
08:28*Celestar lols
08:28<@Celestar>I'll be back in a few
08:29<yorick>he smells in my face :/
08:29<@Celestar>I think we've peaked the humor now :P
08:30<TrueBrain>we are far far over the peak .. but okay, it takes a while before some people notice that :p
08:40<@petern>usually bjarni
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>what happened to him anyway?
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>@seen Bjarni
08:42<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 1 day, 16 hours, 13 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <ln-> well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case. <-- sort off.... I'm totally tired and I missed everything at uni this week
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>famous last words...
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08:50<Eddi|zuHause>sorry, no warez bots here...
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11:22<@Celestar>Rubidium: I've brought cargodest up to scratch wrt to guidelines/your review. If you wanna take another look, it'd be great
11:23<yorick>Celestar: btw, why are you changing economy.cpp:VehiclePayment()?
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11:24<@Celestar>what where?
11:25<@Celestar>what modification are you referring to, yorick ?
11:26<yorick>the switch at economy.cpp:1513
11:26<yorick>"profit << 8" > "profit * 256"?
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>because you should not use shifts with obviously arithmetic operations
11:28<yorick>I think it is rather for the Fract stuff
11:28<@Celestar>and I was messing around what that function anyway (and a lot=
11:28<@Celestar>we use shifts for bitwise access of stuff normally
11:30<yorick>in SubtractMoneyFromCompanyFract, it is >> 8ed back
11:31<@Celestar>I noticed
11:32<yorick>which has exactly no use
11:32<yorick>I believe
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>*ahem* time for a proper fixed point fractional type... *ahem*
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11:35<@Celestar>if we see that one is needed, it's just a single file
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11:39<frosch123>I tried adding a fixed point class when cleaning up tgp (IIRC it uses three types with different amounts of fractional bits), but it turned out even worse
11:40<@Celestar>frosch123: I have a fixed point class :)
11:40<@Celestar>frosch123: and it happens to work (=
11:40<frosch123>I know the one from gamebalance.
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11:41<frosch123>But the problem was not the template class itself (btw. I used a far smaller and simplier one), but rather converting the old code
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11:41<@Celestar>is tgp messy?
11:41<@Celestar>never really looked at it
11:41<frosch123>some stuff just did not treated the fractional numbers as fractional
11:42<frosch123>amplitude_t ra = (Random() << 16) | (Random() & 0x0000FFFF); <- that is still my favorite line
11:42<frosch123>and it is still broken :)
11:42<@Celestar>that is WHAT exactly?
11:43<yorick>it seems to do a uint32 random
11:43<frosch123>Well, it creates two random 32bit values (note: order is undefined), throws away 32 bit of them, and reunions them to 32 bit
11:44<@Celestar>frosch123: yeah, but what is the point of it?
11:44<frosch123>noone knows, maybe the quality of randomness is better?
11:44<TrueBrain>higher entropy :)
11:44<@Celestar>is it really?
11:45<frosch123>however, amplitude_t is a fractional number with 10 fractional bits
11:45<TrueBrain>of course not, the semi-randomizer already has an entropy of .. well .. lets not define it :p
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11:51<George_>DaleStan: What should happen, if action 6 overwrites a bite in the next action, that does not exists? For example, the following action is 10 bytes long, while action 6 overwrites 20-th byte.
11:52<frosch123>wiki explicitly writes that it is not possible to enlarge a sprite with action6
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11:53<George_>does it mean that it would break nothing?
11:53<frosch123>so either nothing happens, ttdp/ottd crashes, or if they are intelligent enough the grf is disabled as invalid :)
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>everything else would be a horrible buffer overflow
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>a virus distributed by grf... what a horrible idea
11:55<George_>frosch123: Yes, that is the question. I hope that in this case OTTD/TTDP will ignore this action 6, but I want to be sure :)
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11:55<frosch123>George_: don't rely on it, as I said it is very likely that in some future newgrfs will be checked more thoroughly and the grf would be disabled as invalid
11:56<frosch123>if you do not want to apply the action6, skip it using action9
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12:06<Zuu>Hello, how long can a client take up the join server slot? I've been second in queue for 4-5 minutes now, this attempt on dihedral auto nightly server.
12:07<Zuu>I though the server would disconnect a client that stalls or takes to long to join.
12:07<yorick>try joining again
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12:08<SmatZ>I think it disconnects you after "TCP timeout", that is ~12 minutes I think
12:08<Zuu>I did that, but got the message again.
12:08<yorick>SmatZ: join time is limited
12:08<Zuu>But 12 minutes will be within 0-5 minutes or so then..
12:09<Zuu>Tried again, and have a client before.
12:09<Ammler>the queue is not fixed, sometimes someone else does overtake you.
12:09<Zuu>But I will wait then and hope the 12 minutes make it.
12:10<yorick>it's limited by max_join_time or something
12:10<Ammler>at least, it seems like :-)
12:11<Zuu>Ammler: So it is more a pool of clients that currently don't download the map and they are not enterly FIFO by when they connected to the server.
12:11<Zuu>But more when the join-slot gets free the first that asks get the slot?
12:11<Ammler>Zuu: I am not sure, but sometimes, I can see the number rise.
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12:12<Zuu>Maybe you as client get some time to take the free slot, and then someone else take it. But it's just speculations. The code is where to look for the facts. :)
12:13<yorick>no, it just looks for the next client on a FOR_ALL_CLIENTS loop
12:14<Zuu>So it is on a new game FIFO, but it can happen that you get a client id lower than someone else in the queue.
12:14<yorick>I think so
12:23<Zuu>Well, its been more than 12 minutes now ( > 20 minutes), so some problem is there. :/
12:28<Zuu>Someone that can check that it is not an issue with my connection maybe?
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12:32<Zuu>The client that blocked join just got removed. Don't know if dih did something in the silence or if it finaly got disconnected.
12:33<Ammler>Zuu: try to join coop server
12:33<Ammler>ah, ok :-)
12:33<Zuu>Can try?, but it sorted out now.
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12:46<mrfrenzy>no need for caps
12:47<Forked>if my isp was I'd go kick someone.. seeing how I work there :-)
12:48<Sacro>Yeah, mine now censors that page, I've been on it before
12:48<TrueBrain>Forked: you like kicking yourself? :)
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12:49<Forked>I don't work with the core network things, sadly.. but it's on my todolist to get there :)
12:50<Forked>step one was to get away from support.. that took about four months, hehe
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14:21*Jolteon attacks slowpoke with thunder.
14:21<Jolteon>(sorry, Sacro told me to..)
14:22<Sacro>hehe :D
14:24*Slowpoke uses yawn
14:26<Jolteon>O LAWD.
14:36<Sacro>well this fight is boring
14:39*Jolteon thunderbolts all over Slowpoke
14:45<Slowpoke>ewww. you pervert :o
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14:49<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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15:53<TrueBrain>what a boring channel this is
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15:54<Wolf01>why? you can see arrivals and departures like when you are at the train station
15:55<TrueBrain>the only difference is, that at a train station I can spot beautiful girls
15:55<TrueBrain>in here it is just boring purple lines
15:55<SmatZ>TrueBrain: for you :)
15:56<Wolf01>ask sacro for beautiful girls ;)
15:56<Jolteon>One of the staff at Kings Cross station earlier today had a rather nice bottom.
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15:58<TrueBrain>SmatZ: they don't animate ...
15:58<TrueBrain>Wolf01: then he sents me an other expensive bill ... 51 times are enough :p
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i fear another harddrive is failing, this time an older one
16:01<Wolf01>lol, nice commit message, TrueBrain, for r14659 :D
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16:01<TrueBrain>I can be funny ;) :p Tnx :)
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16:08<TrueBrain>LOL! and now I get porn sites PMd to me ..
16:08<TrueBrain>you dirty people!
16:09*Eddi|zuHause pleads guilty
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>err... sorry, system failure speaking out of me... gotta reboot
16:10<TrueBrain>go take a shower
16:11<TrueBrain>75G hmp/ ... it is a tiny bit big :p
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16:21<RvGaTe>hmm, stable version does not have presignals?
16:22<RvGaTe>oh wait, it does.. not just a clear menu for it
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>i thought it already had the signal gui... you just have to enable it
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>brb (i hope)
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16:38<TrueBrain>bleh, why is it always on a Sunday evening that I run out of nice movies to watch
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>you have enough "nice" movies to watch all week?
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16:40<Wolf01>I'm really bored too
16:40<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: hehe, no, not really .. just then there are TV series and such :p
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>then the reason is, there are no series on saturdays, so you can't watch any on sundays
16:41<@Rubidium>there's Top Gear to watch
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>the only shows on saturdays are british ones, like doctor who... and those don't last for a full year...
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>there is merlin, currently, though
16:43<Wolf01>I wish there's Little Britain on some channel
16:43<TrueBrain>I stopped watching Merling after ..6 episodes or so
16:43<TrueBrain>got a tiny bit boring
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>it's not that bad...
16:43<TrueBrain>like the new season of The IT Crowd ..
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>it's certainly better than other new stuff... like... knight rider...
16:44<TrueBrain>well, I guess it is time to watch WALL-E
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16:44<TrueBrain>Knight Rider (2008) is cool
16:44<TrueBrain>nice hot babes :p
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16:45<TrueBrain>yeah, run!
16:45<TrueBrain>I would
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>who stealz ma internets!
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>wall-e is a stupid movie...
16:46<TrueBrain>different people give a different opinion on it
16:46<TrueBrain>so I guess .. I just need to watch it to make mine :p
16:46<TrueBrain>even more as my computer is busy calculating 75 GiB of data ... so it is not like I have any thing better to do :)
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>what i particularly enjoyed this season is true blood
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>and yes, knight rider has hot babes... but that's just not what knight rider should be about...
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>they could have made Baywatch (2008) instead...
16:49<TrueBrain>agree'd :)
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17:55<TrueBrain>omg, WALL-E is even worse than I expected ...
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17:56<Eddi|zuHause>is it too early to say "i told you so"? :p
17:57<TrueBrain>not at all :)
17:57<TrueBrain>but without looking, you can't have an opinion :)
17:57<TrueBrain>(well .. doesn't hold for all things, but for movies in general it does :p)
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18:02<SmatZ>TrueBrain: it's not bad, it's cute :)
18:04<TrueBrain>it is cute, yes, I give you that :)
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18:06<Eddi|zuHause>20 minutes without any word spoken...
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>the last movie that had that was 28 days later :p
18:07<TrueBrain>haha :p
18:08<TrueBrain>my first laugh on the movie after 45 minutes :p
18:08<TrueBrain>hmm .. my application that was running for the last 2 hours just segfaulted ..
18:09<SmatZ>sleep(7200) ; *(int*)0 = 0;
18:14<TrueBrain>so I guess I should rerun it with -g and gdb attached ... boring
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18:54<TrueBrain>well, that was a nice movie .. kind of ... or something
18:55<TrueBrain>lol .. then you trace an error .. and it ends up 'mmap' failing .. sigh ...
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18:59<TrueBrain>hmm .. worse .. 'open' failing to open a file 'readdir' detected .. how nice :(
19:00<TrueBrain>haha, 'oops', I forgot to close my files after being done with them ... then after 1024 files ... you can't open any more files ;)
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19:02<Eddi|zuHause>funny ;)
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19:03<TrueBrain>not if that just costs you 3 hours of CPU time :(
19:03<TrueBrain>S010-W175.hmp: 10S by 175W, 6000 px, 1200 res; low: -5, high: 1854
19:03<TrueBrain>N055-W170.hmp: 55N by 170W, 6000 px, 1200 res; low: -100, high: 2057
19:03<TrueBrain>Yippie :)
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19:05<TrueBrain>lately I got a lot of 'love' emailed to me ..
19:05<TrueBrain>oh wlel, it is better than viagra
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>i never get spam :((
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19:07<TrueBrain>go to the shop
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>in the last 7 years i had this email account, i got like 3 spam mails
19:07<TrueBrain>is there a penalty (like burning his feet or something) for opening a 18 month old topic?
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>"probieren geht über studieren"
19:09<TrueBrain>what is the highest point on earth?
19:09<+glx>everest should be
19:09<TrueBrain>in meters :)
19:10<SmatZ>8848, or 8850
19:10<+glx> says 8844m
19:10<SmatZ>depends when it was measured
19:10<TrueBrain>k, tnx
19:10<TrueBrain>(sorry, too lazy to fire up firefox :p
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>that's what i learned
19:10<TrueBrain>and how
19:10<SmatZ>eg. I was teched it is 8848, my younger brother was teached 8850m
19:11<TrueBrain>measuring things in height is tricky on its own :)
19:11<TrueBrain>nevertheless, order of magnitude 9000, fine by me :)
19:11<thingwath>The point farthest from the Earth's centre is widely reported to be the summit of Chimborazo (due to the Earth not being a perfect sphere), at 6,384.4 km (3,967 mi).
19:11<thingwath>says wiki.
19:11<TrueBrain>and .... that has what to do with the highest point?
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>nobody cares about earth center
19:12*SmatZ cares
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>height is measured relative to earth surface
19:12<TrueBrain>as long as it rotates, it is fine by me :p
19:12<SmatZ>relative to sea level
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>(as an idealised regular object)
19:12<TrueBrain>else we just create some kind of material that gets harder when it gets hotter ...
19:12<TrueBrain>and we get DC voltage by putting 2 cables on either side of our cabine!
19:12<+glx>sea level is variable
19:13<TrueBrain>and indeed, sea level is used
19:13<TrueBrain>Anyone knows the coordinates of Everest?
19:13<TrueBrain>glx: really? :p :p :)
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>that one i really did not memorise :p
19:14*glx starts google earth
19:15<TrueBrain>27°59?17?N 86°55?31?E? / ?27.98806, 86.92528
19:15<TrueBrain>I had to start firefox for that :(
19:16<TrueBrain>okay, that is within my dataset .. :) Tnx guys!
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19:25<TrueBrain>the SRTM survey has it on 8806 meters .. but that is the average height of 0.3 arcsec square
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19:41<TrueBrain>night all
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21:44<nicfer>Any progress on the 16 companies patch?
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 08 00:00:10 2008