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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-12-13

---Logopened Sat Dec 13 00:00:20 2008
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03:30<Alberth>good morning all
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03:56<Wolf01>hello
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05:25<Forked>once I was afraid.. I was petrified..
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05:26<Tefad>then a giant discoball fell on your head and you died. the end.
05:26<dihedral>no - that is where the story starts
05:26<Forked>and this all happened..
05:26<Forked>last christmas..
05:26<Forked>(I gave you my..)
05:26<dihedral>the dead body farts, while his sole rises to the doors of heaven
05:27<dihedral>where they quickly close the gates
05:28<jpm>Are you saying that they don't like farts in heaven?
05:30<dihedral>they dont like Forked in heaven
05:30<dihedral>there is no Fork!
05:32<jpm>dihedral: Have you been there
05:32<dihedral>have a good connection to the boss's son :-P
05:33<Forked>I have the jesus tshirt... that says "I found Jesus!" .. and in smaller letters beneath that "(he was hiding behind the couch)"
05:34<dihedral>i have the "jesus inside" t-shirt
05:34<jpm>dihedral: Good to hear
05:35<dihedral>that is an unexpected reaction in this channel jpm ;-)
05:36<jpm>Yeah, this is not my primary channel
05:38<jpm>Are you saying that most of people here don't like Jesus?
05:38<dihedral>they have a different response
05:39<jpm>Like: This channel for OTTD, not for religious stuff! or?
05:49<@Rubidium>you want to tell me that OpenTTD isn't a religion?
05:49<SmatZ>hehe
05:52<edeca>Let's hope it isn't, I don't support false Gods ;)
05:52<edeca>Hrm I don't know if this is on-topic, but with new industries (like ECS) if a producer (steel mill) and consumer (tinning factory) are next to eachother, does the steel just go from one to the other?
05:53<edeca>I tried transporting it but it didn't accept
05:54<jpm>is your destination station supplying steel also?
05:55<edeca>Hrm, no. But it was very close to the original station. Or maybe the destination didn't cover the part that accepted steel
05:56<edeca>I'll load it up
05:56<edeca>There is only 1 tile between the two
05:57<edeca>the two industries that is
05:58<jpm>Rubidium: Maybe it is for some people ;)
05:58<edeca>The new industries are completely different, with multiple supply/accept choices.
05:59<edeca>Are things purposely built close to eachother?
05:59<edeca>When the map is generated
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06:01<edeca>And are some products seasonal? Or is it just random every month?
06:01<jpm>don't know... there is setting to avoid same kind of industry to be build close each other...
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>edeca: the farm in alpine climate will not produce anything while it is snow covered
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>if that is what you mean by seasonal
06:03<jpm>Eddi|zuHause: is farm producing livestock in alpine climate?
06:04<edeca>jpm: Not the same kind of industry, related ones. I have a whole food processing/packing industry in one screen
06:04<Eddi|zuHause>it's a copy of the temperate farm
06:04<edeca>jpm: So coal/ore for steel, livestock & then the tinning factory
06:04<edeca>jpm: Is that purpose?
06:04<Eddi|zuHause>unfortunately, alpine cannot be combined with other industry sets
06:05<jpm>Eddi|zuHause: ok
06:05<jpm>edeca: I think industry is placed randomly.
06:06<edeca>jpm: That's lucky then ;)
06:06<edeca>Everything is produced so slowly though :(
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>you need rating >70% for production to speed up
06:07<jpm>edeca: If have number of industry high it can happen quite easily, or if you have very big screen.
06:07<jpm>gotta go
06:07<edeca>Eddi|zuHause: OK that makes sense.
06:08<edeca>I turned industry down too, high is far too much with ECS
06:08<edeca>I might make a new game, I've screwed this one up :)
06:09<edeca>Time to go do decorating though, later
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08:20<eight_>hey
08:25<eight_>I installed ottd today and I can't seem to understand something... when I build a truck loading bay and a road vehicle depot near a coal mine and near a power plant nothing happens, but when the opponent does the same his fills with trucks.... should I initiate truck traffic somehow, or am I doing something else wrong?
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>you need to build the trucks in the depot
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08:27<eight_>and how do I do that?
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08:28<TrueBrain>http://wiki.openttd.org, and follow the Tutorial
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Roadway_construction#Building_road_vehicles
08:29<dihedral>wow - that is really cute
08:29<dihedral>:-)
08:29<eight_>oooh... thanks
08:31<FloSoft>hmm is it possible to use the timetable to say "full load, but wait at maximum x days"?
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08:39<SmatZ>hahaha... my Windows are sooo dead ... 1 sec after they start booting up, the PC reboots :-P
08:39<SmatZ>no matter what I select in the boot menu (safe mode etc.)
08:39<SmatZ>linux is so fine :)
08:40<Zuu>Someone killed your Windows...
08:40<SmatZ>here I can at least see what failed :-P
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>FloSoft: no, that is not possible
08:40<SmatZ>Zuu: probably :)
08:40<TrueBrain>sorry SmatZ :p
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08:40<Zuu>yea, we are sorry to hear that your Windows got killed.
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: i thought windows also had some kind of bootlog
08:40<SmatZ>I need windows to print documents in high quality though... I wasn't able to make cups print documents with images nicely :(
08:40<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: and guess what ... you can only access that after booting! :p
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>i am not sorry about any windows that is killed
08:41<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: good idea :)
08:41<SmatZ>hehe
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08:45<Alberth>SmatZ: Recently I had GRUB failing on me. Very nice. It says "GRUB" and that's it. You never even reach booting the OS :)
08:46<SmatZ>Alberth: sorry :( It has never happened to me... you may simply boot from CD and reinstall GRUB, right?
08:47<TrueBrain>Alberth: means your second block of grub is damaged :)
08:47<TrueBrain>means some other utility tried to override the mbr :)
08:47<TrueBrain>or you cleaned the first sector of the paritition grub was installed from :)
08:47<Alberth>SmatZ: I tried that, but it didn't work. I got fed up with it, and re-installed the OS from scratch
08:48<SmatZ>>:-)
08:48<Alberth>No idea how to fix this one if it happens again though :(
08:48<TrueBrain>solution is always simple: boot from any usb stick, run fdisk /mbr, and run grub from the paritition you original started it from :)
08:49<TrueBrain>in fact ... get any usb stick with grub installed, and you can boot your system :p Haha :)
08:49<Alberth>well, I'd like to, but Linux kernel is not really consistent with my RAID setup, sometimes it thinks I have 2 disks instead of 1 RAID mirror
08:50<TrueBrain>in RAID-mirror that is never a problem :)
08:50<TrueBrain>(well, besides for grub :p)
08:50<TrueBrain>(grub is always on your first disk, never on your second)
08:50<Alberth>Ah well, as long as it doesn't happen too often... :P
08:51<TrueBrain>(downside of soft-raid .. in windows it is worse, ntloader is only on the first disk, and no way to install that on your second ....)
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09:07<Tefad>TrueBrain: dd doesn't work?
09:07<TrueBrain>Windows?
09:07<TrueBrain>haha :)
09:08<Tefad>it exists
09:08<TrueBrain>I know
09:08<TrueBrain>how nice that XUL tutorials don't describe how you can fetch data over the web ...
09:09<Wolf01>bbl
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09:31<Terkhen>hello
09:31<SmatZ>hello
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09:39<yorick>hello
09:39<SmatZ>hello
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>hello
09:54<SmatZ>hello
09:54<yorick>hello
09:54<Prof_Frink>hello
09:54<yorick>hello
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10:30<TrueBrain>I think that was the most boring conversation ever ..
10:32<Tefad>hello
10:34<ccfreak2k>Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo.
10:35-!-Zorn [zorn@g224106123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:38<@Darkvater>hiya
10:38<Tefad>your spelling is off
10:38<@Darkvater>hi Belugas :)
10:38<Tefad>Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
10:38<yorick>hi Darkvater :)
10:38*TrueBrain considers using @kick ..
10:40-!-Tefad was kicked from #openttd by Darkvater [there you go ;)]
10:40<@Darkvater>hi yorick
10:40<TrueBrain>I love you Darkvater :)
10:40*yorick wouldn't go thát far
10:40<@Darkvater>the feeling's mutual :)
10:40<SmatZ>hello Darkvater :)
10:41*Darkvater is going to dig through the forums to see what's happening :)
10:41<TrueBrain>enjoy :)
10:41<TrueBrain>I am going to do some indoor wall climbing
10:42<TrueBrain>bye all :)
10:42<@Darkvater>oh, that's nice as well :)
10:42-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has joined #openttd
10:42<@Darkvater>where?
10:42<TrueBrain>Uithof
10:42<@Darkvater>hi SmatZ
10:42<yorick>hi SmatZ
10:42<@Darkvater>uithof is ok; you can go skiing afterwards :p
10:42<TrueBrain>too expensive :)
10:44<@Darkvater>hehe; well take care!
10:44<TrueBrain>will do
10:44<TrueBrain>bye :)
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10:48<@Darkvater>oh, yeah darkvater.openttd.org is no more
10:50<yorick>was it ever?
10:50<@Darkvater>of course
10:50<@Darkvater>I had all my dev stuff there
10:51<yorick>and you do not have that any more?
10:51<@Darkvater>nah, I got a mail telling it was going to be removed; cleanup action
10:51<@Darkvater>but no worries :)
10:51<@Darkvater>firstly I have backups and secondly everything's way too old :P
10:52<yorick>ok
10:52*yorick has no worries anymore
10:52<@Darkvater>hihi, I still have a directsound patch
10:53-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g226147237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
10:53*yorick still has a infrastructure-sharing patch
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10:58<@Darkvater>these 0.6 screenshots are pretty apalling
11:00<yorick>ooh, we have 0.6 screenshots? *watches*
11:05<yorick>Darkvater: are you going to start a challenge about warm-up excercises now?
11:05<@Darkvater>haha, why?
11:09<@Darkvater>ubidi.h?
11:09<@Darkvater>hmm I think I'm missing some things
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>useful.zip?
11:11<yorick>MSVC?!
11:11<@Darkvater>probably
11:11<yorick>you're missing sanity
11:12<yorick>:p
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>in which world is that news?
11:13<@Darkvater>now that is rude
11:13*yorick stares at Eddi
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11:26<@petern>Darkvater, what 0.6 screenshots? :D
11:26<@Darkvater>exactly :)
11:27<@Darkvater>petern: is this your doing "newgrf.cpp(2440) : warning C4800: 'ChangeInfoResult' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false'"
11:27<@Darkvater>:)
11:27<@Darkvater>btw, do we still have a dev channel?
11:28<@petern>lol
11:28<@petern>is that still not fixed
11:28<@petern>oops
11:29<@petern>i don't know, i only use this channel
11:29<@Darkvater>I think ' != CIR_SUCCESS'
11:29*petern ponders installing VC++ 2008 express
11:31<@Darkvater>I downloaded a valid vs2008 prof from dreamspark
11:31<@Darkvater>just in time :P
11:31<@Darkvater>https://www.dreamspark.com/
11:31<@petern>just in time?
11:31<@petern>ah, students
11:31<@Darkvater>well, I'm not going to be a student much longer :D
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11:35<benjamingoodger>"what's that? you can't afford your first fix? never mind, this one's on me!"
11:35<SmatZ>oh.... I took ice cream from fridge this afternoon... I am afraid to open it now :-D
11:35<SmatZ>I can feel it's water inside
11:36*SmatZ puts it back to freezer
11:36*SmatZ hopes to nom nom nom later
11:36<@Darkvater>hehe we still have a custombridgeheads branch :O
11:36<benjamingoodger>SmatZ: not a good idea *cough*foodpoisoning*cough*
11:37<@petern>we do
11:37<@petern>it's useless :D
11:37<@Darkvater>:) I remember there was a lot of struggle in there
11:37<@petern>i remember my first original version was piss easy
11:37<@Darkvater>haha
11:38-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fdbad.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
11:38<@Darkvater>oh petern, you're gonna love this...I had a great idea a while back
11:38<@petern>what's that, give petern lots of money?
11:39<@Darkvater>sorry
11:39<@Darkvater> both with rail/road, whatever sets there's this big issue of drawing
11:39<@Darkvater>the base-sprite with all possible combinations, so usually you're either supported or not, or end up sucking like the CS set
11:40<@petern>oh
11:40<@Darkvater>don't think separation into base+surface is a good idea performance wise, but what if we at load-time generate all sprites needed and just use them as if they were drawn as-is?
11:40<@petern>base+surface works fine
11:40<@petern>http://hg.openttd.org/developers/peter1138/railtypes.hg/
11:41<@Darkvater>oh
11:41<@Darkvater>so I guess I'm a bit late with this
11:42<@petern>:)
11:50<@Darkvater>soo
11:51<@Darkvater>lots of work left? :)
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11:51<yorick>always
11:52<@Darkvater>:)
11:52<@Darkvater>haha, tron is very talkative :P
11:52<@Darkvater>17:39 <Tron> guess so
11:52<@Darkvater>all I got from him in the past 20 minutes
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11:53<yorick>tron is actually alive?
11:53<yorick>@seen Tron
11:53<@DorpsGek>yorick: Tron was last seen in #openttd 43 weeks, 6 days, 3 hours, 29 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <Tron> gcc 2.95 is plain obsolete (even has several bugs in its C++ part). further at the very least the justifications given are extremely oversimplified.
11:53<frosch123>^^ I guess morphos compilation failed 43 weeks, 6 days ago :)
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11:54<@Darkvater>hmm, I must be a total newbie by now but are we actually using git for personal development?
11:54<@Darkvater>or how's this going?
11:55<yorick>I think it's more hg than git
11:55<frosch123>michi_cc uses git
11:56<@Darkvater>git scares me
11:57<frosch123>someone knows another planeset except those in grfcrawler and the "russian planeset for ottd" ?
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11:58<@Darkvater>meh too high a trunk-sync / actual development in newgrf_ports
11:58<@Darkvater>+ratio
11:58<frosch123>better do not take a look at newgrf_ports :)
11:59<@Darkvater>really? celestar said it was ok
11:59<@Darkvater>compared to previous attempts at cargodest
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12:00<yorick>you can't compare newgrf_ports with cargodest!
12:01<frosch123>well its specs were designed by someone who has hardly knowledge about nfo
12:01<@Darkvater>yorick: no, just the "previous attempts" part; that's why cel started afresh
12:01*Darkvater hides
12:03*yorick hides Darkvater
12:04<@Darkvater>my NFO knowledge is severly lacking
12:10<frosch123>http://paste.openttd.org/177675 <- something I wrote some month ago, at the beginning you might find a summary of the current specs, and why they are not useful. At the end is an incomplete draft of a different concept.
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12:14<@Darkvater>heh, I need to read up on NFO...too much magic
12:15<yorick>what's the hg command to extract all files from a repository?
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12:36<yorick>how do I use diff to output sane diffs?
12:36<frosch123>diff -Nru
12:37<yorick>thanks :)
12:37<frosch123>well, if you use "-r" you usally also need "-x"
12:37<yorick>hg archive does the trick :)
12:38<yorick>just need to -x .hg_archival :)
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12:43<@Rubidium>Darkvater: ubidi's needed for languages like Arabic, Hebrew and Persian, like in http://rbijker.net/openttd/hebrew.png
12:50<@petern>hey benjamingoodger, look, pointless translations!
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13:09<Eddi|zuHause>i can't read it, it must be pointless! :p
13:10<George>Sorry, my IRC agent was not working today, were there any questions for me?
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13:12<Eddi|zuHause>!logs
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>er... that used to work...
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
13:16<yorick>@logs
13:16<yorick>where's my irc bookmark?
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>you need books to mark them.
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15:06<yorick>strange...patches I generated on hg entirely fail to apply on svn checkouts
15:06<yorick>but not the other way around
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15:25<Wolf01>'night
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15:28<+glx>yorick: patch -p1 to apply hg patch on svn
15:29<+glx>patch -p0 for svn patches
15:29<frosch123>gpatch on solaris :p
15:29<yorick>glx: patch -p1 on svn fails
15:30<yorick>it finds all files, but fails to apply any changes
15:30<+glx>lots of .rej?
15:30<frosch123>try unix2dos or dos2unix
15:31<yorick>lots of .rej
15:31<yorick>frosch123: tried that
15:31<yorick>it just says "skipping CR at end of line" then
15:31<+glx>check the .rej to see why it fails
15:32<yorick>it has no reason
15:33<+glx>there's always a reason :) compare the rej and the source
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15:36<yorick>only thing I can find is the difference between " void UpdateAircraftCache(Vehicle *v);
15:36<yorick>"
15:36<yorick>on the patch
15:36<yorick>and void UpdateAircraftCache(Vehicle *v);
15:36<yorick>" on the source
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15:37<yorick>2 spaces on the .rej file and none on the source
15:38<yorick>but there is only one "standard" space on the diff
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15:41<yorick>http://paste.openttd.org/177684
15:42<+glx>probably EOL then
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15:44<yorick>nope, tried that
15:44<+glx>give me the patch so I can try
15:51<yorick>glx: http://senduit.com/8a6180
15:51<yorick>it works using tortoisesvn when I remove a/ and b/
15:53<+glx>applies without problem here
15:53<yorick>are you using patch?
15:53<+glx>yes
15:53<yorick>what parameters?
15:53<+glx>patch -p1 -i test.diff
15:54<yorick>Hunk #1 FAILED at 99.
15:54<+glx>what's your patch version ?
15:55<+glx>(patch -v)
15:55<yorick>2.5.4
15:56<+glx>gnuwin32 ?
15:56<yorick>it only says patch 2.5.4
15:56<+glx>I use 2.5
15:56<+glx>you probably use gnuwin32 patch
15:57<yorick>Copyright 1984 - 1988 Larry Wall
15:57<+glx>it doesn't like unix eol IIRC
15:57<yorick>no, gnuwin32 is 2.5.9
15:57<yorick>this one is the one that comes with mingw
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15:59<yorick>the gnuwin one just asserts when I feed it that patch
16:00<+glx>I use msys patch
16:00<yorick>so do I
16:02<+glx>and it says 2.5
16:02<yorick>maybe I'm using newer msys
16:06<+glx>hmm I use 2007 msys 1.0.11
16:09<yorick>I'm using 2008 msys 1.0.11
16:13<+glx>ok it failed using 2008
16:23<+glx>ok patch doesn't like dos eol in patched file
16:23<+glx>it's a bug for me
16:35<+glx>ok bug reported :)
16:35*glx reverts to previous version
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16:44*yorick gets older version
16:44<yorick>it works :)
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17:06<Eddi|zuHause>hm... lady from the news having trouble pronouncing massachusetts
17:07<yorick>not her fault :p
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17:09<Eddi|zuHause>:o
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>i made him go poef!
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17:14-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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17:39<@petern>hmm
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17:42<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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18:26<Sacro>ZOMG
18:26<Sacro>A DARKVATER
18:26<Sacro>ON THE FORUMS
18:26-!-Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
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18:27<fjb>Hello
18:28<Yexo>hello fjb
18:29<fjb>Yexo: I had no time for playing yet. :-(
18:29<Yexo>take you time :p I'm in no hurry
18:29<Yexo>Already severel week (months?) have gone by sinse the last version, so a few more days or a week more doesn't hurt :p
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18:40<fjb>And I'm having a job now, at least one project. So not much for playing OpenTTD anymore. But much fun playing with a microcontroller.
18:43<@Belugas>how much do i understand fjb...
18:44<fjb>The microcontroller is really fun ... most of the time... setting times and stuff is way more complicated than programming the arm core.
18:44-!-KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-103-64.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:45<fjb>timers, not times
18:48<@Belugas>dunno aobut it. i'm more into payment processing these days. frustrating job, believe me
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18:57<TrueBrain>oh no, it is a Belugas! :p
18:57-!-rubyruy [~ruy@S0106000c6e57c851.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd
19:01<@Belugas>naaaa... it's a wha-whaed foot
19:01<@Belugas>i feel muscles in my leg i did not expected i had ;)
19:02<TrueBrain>and that at your age! :p
19:03<@Belugas>blablabla
19:03<TrueBrain>hehe.
19:03<@Belugas>young punk ;)
19:04<@Belugas>honestly, it's fun fun fun
19:04<@Belugas>i've got a compostion already on the making :)
19:07-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-60-185.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
19:20<@Belugas>and there are a few pathces on the forums that are tempting me right now
19:28<TrueBrain>in what wasy? :)
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19:34<@Belugas>like... they do not provide too much thinking,
19:34<TrueBrain>hehe
19:34<TrueBrain>always nice :)
19:34<@Belugas>they seem like giving good possibilities
19:34<@Belugas>yup yup yup
19:34<@Belugas>lazy brain :)
19:34<TrueBrain>your new nickname?
19:34<TrueBrain>LazyBrain? :p
19:34<@Belugas>lol
19:34<@Belugas>yeah :)
19:35<@Belugas>right now, shopping for a new inkjet printer
19:35<TrueBrain>hmm
19:35<TrueBrain>I need to find inkjet printers to
19:35<TrueBrain>really cheap
19:35<@Belugas>our still works, we just one to have an ethernet conneciton
19:35<@Belugas>deskjet 712C
19:35<@Belugas>oooooold
19:35<@Belugas>HP
19:35<@Belugas>only
19:36<TrueBrain>I can't order black/white only printers here
19:36<TrueBrain>haah
19:37<@Belugas>you need just b/w?
19:37<TrueBrain>yeah
19:37<TrueBrain>we need to print A LOT for 3 days only
19:37<TrueBrain>and to two printers
19:37<TrueBrain>so I want 3 or 4 very cheap printers :p
19:38<+glx>laser are cheap :)
19:38<TrueBrain>inkt: 40 euro
19:38<TrueBrain>laser: 80 euro
19:38<TrueBrain>but maybe 2 laser is better ...
19:38<+glx>cost less than refill
19:39<TrueBrain>(faster, and faster dry :))
19:40<+glx>and for B/W stuff it's the best
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19:41<TrueBrain>yeah, maybe a good thing to consider :)
19:41<@Belugas>yup
19:41<@Belugas>agreed
19:41<@Belugas>hello both of you, by the way
19:42<+glx>how's the snow?
19:42<TrueBrain>Hewlett-Packard P1006 <- looks nice :)
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>beautiful as long as there is a window inbetween me and the snow ;)
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19:48<@Belugas>glx, too much. but... having a contractor who removes as soon as it falls, it makes you appreciate the beauty of it more easily ;)
19:48<TrueBrain>hmm
19:48<TrueBrain>snow
19:48<+glx>hehe
19:48<TrueBrain>snow snow snow snow snow
19:48*TrueBrain loves SNOW!
19:48<@Belugas>TrueBrain, go and stare at the picts i've sent you!
19:49<TrueBrain>I only have an image of your VOX peddle
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19:50<TrueBrain>oeh! PRETTY!!!!!!!!!1111oneone
19:52<TrueBrain>night all :)
19:53<@Belugas>bye
19:53<@Belugas>tv time for me
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19:59<Eddi|zuHause>tv is nice and all, until you realise that you have 300 channels of total crap...
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19:59<benjamingoodger>300?
19:59<benjamingoodger>ha!
20:00<+glx>most of them are not in my language
20:03<benjamingoodger>the thing is, there are four terrestrial channels here
20:03<benjamingoodger>three of those four represent about 60% of all the good television available
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20:05<nicfer>Hmmm, would be possible to create a city simulator game from ottd's engine?
20:09<nicfer>I mean, some functions can be reused, the one way roads, the stations (I hate the SC-like ones)
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21:27<Tefad>that wasn't nice : (
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22:11<nicfer>One question, transport empire will be something like ottd in full 3d? Or more like locomotion done right?
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22:14<benjamingoodger>nicfer: I believe the idea is a 3d OTTD, but "locomotion done right" would thereby also be accurate --- locomotion is surely "OTTD with a slightly less antiquated graphics engine"
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22:18<nicfer>Oh. Would be useful the blender models made for ottd? Or does TE need something different?
22:20<benjamingoodger>er, I'm not sure..
22:21<benjamingoodger>I wouldn't want to commit myself, but I'd guess the models made for 32bpp OTTD are lacking detail on at least two elevations and likely not detailed enough
22:22<benjamingoodger>but they'd be a good starting point in the event that it ever gets to the point where it needs content...
22:27<svip>benjamingoodger: How's business?
22:27<svip>Isn't it a bit late in the UK?
22:27<benjamingoodger>yes, it's three-thirty AM
22:28<svip>Yeah... what I'm saying.
22:28<benjamingoodger>business is good, thank you... we've sold 61 copies of our first book
22:29<svip>Oh.
22:29<svip>How large a number did you print of it?
22:29<benjamingoodger>none yet, it's not yet released
22:30<svip>Oh, how many are you planning?
22:30<benjamingoodger>it opened for pre-orders last friday
22:30<benjamingoodger>we're planning to sell a fair few thousand
22:30<svip>Well, I certainly hope so for you.
22:31<benjamingoodger>each order generates an instruction to print a copy that goes to our outsourced on-demand printing
22:31<svip>Funny, as newspapers are going down in sales, books aren't as badly hit by the Internet, are they?
22:31<benjamingoodger>no
22:31<svip>I knew it.
22:32<svip>People like a book in their hands, rather than "virtually" go through a book.
22:32<benjamingoodger>are you unaware of why, or will I look silly if I explain it to you?
22:32<benjamingoodger>precisely.
22:32<svip>It's the same reason I get books and not PDF copies.
22:32<benjamingoodger>it's not so much the weight or the page-turning, I think, as the fact that books are reflective
22:33<svip>I suppose.
22:33<benjamingoodger>the contrast between black and white on a monitor is immense in comparison to black and greyish-yellow on paper, and it's a tremendous eye strain
22:33<nicfer>Ok, all right. Other thing, would work ottd's terrain physics in a city simulator?
22:33<thingwath>City simulator?
22:33<benjamingoodger>plus, of course, I suppose it's rather difficult to just pick up a computer and start reading, and more difficult still to read in bed (with 19" TFT on your lap..?)
22:34<svip>They have made handheld ebooks.
22:34<benjamingoodger>nicfer: possible. no reason as to why
22:34<svip>But they sure aren't selling either.
22:34<benjamingoodger>no...
22:34<benjamingoodger>this is because they all have nonreflective displays
22:34<thingwath>benjamingoodger: for me, the biggest problem is distraction
22:34<benjamingoodger>Sony E-Ink is brilliant, but the only useful implementations of it are so crammed with DRM it's not true
22:34<benjamingoodger>and you can't just stick PDFs on a kindle.
22:34<thingwath>you can't irc with paper book :-)
22:35<benjamingoodger>no, true
22:35<benjamingoodger>you can't fall asleep cradling a computer in your hand, either
22:35<svip>thingwath: Different media for different purpose.
22:37<benjamingoodger>there's a certain calm dignity in sitting down to read a newspaper
22:37<thingwath>plus, I have tried FBReader and some pdb books, and it was disguisting
22:37<benjamingoodger>but it doesn't match people's lifestyles any more
22:40<benjamingoodger>plus, of course, books last longer
22:40<thingwath>questionable
22:40<benjamingoodger>if you spend a tenner on a book, if you look after it properly, you will be able to give it to your grandchildren
22:40<svip>And technology runs dry in a matter of minutes.
22:41<svip>Because then there is something new to replace it with!
22:41<benjamingoodger>if you spend £200 ish on an ebook reader, it will surely die before you buy your next car
22:41<nicfer>I want ottd playable on paper and pencil :D
22:41<thingwath>well, I don't have plans to buy any car :-)
22:41<benjamingoodger>just an expression...
22:41<benjamingoodger>or an analogy, perhaps
22:42<benjamingoodger>nicfer: don't worry, I'm sure someone has ported it to that...
22:42<svip>Well, I am going to bed.
22:42<svip>I may fill you up on my thing, benjamingoodger.
22:42<thingwath>well, with infinite paper and pencil, you have power of Turing machine
22:42<thingwath>which is certainly enough for openttd
22:43<benjamingoodger>svip: eh?
22:43<nicfer>It's already possible, just draw lines of different colours appropiately and voila!
22:44<benjamingoodger>hmm
22:44<benjamingoodger>perhaps a colossal array of whiteboards on which different programs are written
22:44<thingwath>Well, I have actually spend some time with map, planning a railway :o)
22:44<benjamingoodger>and a huge paper grid on which post-it notes may be moved about
22:45<benjamingoodger>or, indeed, you could build a real-life railway
22:45<nicfer>Or why not a board game?
22:45<thingwath>at least garden railway
22:45<thingwath>would be nice
22:47<benjamingoodger>a board game was what I described
22:48<benjamingoodger>but OTTD is so enormously complex you'd need miles of whiteboards to play
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23:23<benjamingoodger>good night, everyone
---Logclosed Sun Dec 14 00:00:36 2008