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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-12-24

---Logopened Wed Dec 24 00:00:27 2008
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---Logclosed Wed Dec 24 02:51:10 2008
---Logopened Wed Dec 24 02:51:19 2008
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03:19<planetmaker>he... morning petern :)
03:21<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
03:23<petern>(because 'left' and 'right' are too tricky for seamen)
03:23<petern>((hurr hurr hurr, seamen))
03:27<planetmaker>hm... ok, no logs then...
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03:42<@DorpsGek>petern: I have 6 registered users with 6 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
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03:48<Wolf01>'morning :D
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04:27<dihedral>when a new company is created, NetworkUpdateClientInfo() is issued (and received by the clients, before the company exists on the clients
04:28<dihedral>at lesst IsValidCompanyID returnes false
04:29<dihedral>and it's not COMPANY_NEW_COMPANY
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04:31<@Rubidium>dihedral: you're not making sense
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04:34<dihedral>ok, i'll rephrase :-)
04:34<dihedral>when i am in the game as a spectator
04:34<dihedral>and create a new company with the company ctrl command
04:35<dihedral>the server sends a PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_INFO to all clients, holding the new company id as playas
04:35<dihedral>this id, when checked with IsValidCompanyID (inside the receive code in network_clients.cpp) returns false
04:36<dihedral>which tells me, that the company does not yet exist on the client side, when the CLIENT_INFO packet is received
04:36<dihedral>the new playas id, however is a correct company id (i.e. < MAX_COMPANIES)
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04:37<dihedral>but i assume it would not be possible to send the PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_INFO packet after every client has processed the do commands
04:37<dihedral>as that could be a difference of a few ticks depending on the client, correct?
04:38<@Rubidium>am I not see it r what? DEF_CLIENT_RECEIVE_COMMAND(PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_INFO) does not have an IsValidCompanyID in my source code
04:38<dihedral>right now i check for !IsValidCompanyID(playas) && playas < MAX_COMPANIES && ci->client_playas == COMPANY_SPECTATOR
04:38<dihedral>to announce the client started a new company
04:39<dihedral>do something, in the else block: } else if (playas != ci->client_playas) {
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04:39<dihedral>put a IsValidCompanyID(playas);
04:39<dihedral>or actually anywhere
04:39<dihedral>or output the company id too
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04:40<dihedral>playas holds the next (open) company id, yet failes on that check,
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04:41<@Rubidium>dihedral: you're really seeing ghosts there
04:41<@Darkvater>morning all
04:42<dihedral>am i?
04:42<@Rubidium>playas != ci->client_playas doesn't check whether either of the playas-(s?)es is valid
04:42<@Rubidium>it just checks whether the client changed company
04:42<dihedral>IsValidCompanyID(playas) returns false!
04:42<dihedral>DEBUG(net, 0, "[blah] playas: %d", playas) returns an id < MAX_COMPANIES
04:42<@Rubidium>but then ISN'T an IsValidCompanyID anywhere in that function
04:43<dihedral>in my code there is (pokes his patch)
04:43<@Rubidium>then you're calling the update command too early
04:44<dihedral>no - i was just announcing if and where a client moved to
04:44<dihedral>i.e. moved to spectators or valid company
04:44<dihedral>and i was getting a bunch of 'moved to spectators' when i started a new company :-P
04:45<@Rubidium>if you already moved it, it would be valid (except for spectators)
04:45<@Rubidium>dihedral: are you running latest trunk?
04:50<dihedral>i can send you a patch in a bit if you want to
04:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14735 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs):
04:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: remove a bit of bit-waste in the map array (without changing the map array) and make the CompanyIDs contiguous.
04:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Note: 15 should be enough for now... making it any more means adding more bytes to the map array and thus wasting more bits instead of reducing the bit waste.
04:54<petern>i read that as contageous first :o
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04:56<@Rubidium>petern: am I using too difficult words for your early morning reading capabilities?
04:56<petern>just on first glance
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05:20<planetmaker>big thank you and merry Christmas to all of you, especially you devs who keep us all so very happy :)
05:20*planetmaker waves
05:23<petern>hmm, 16 players in each company and still 14/15 spectators? :p
05:26<petern>of course, people will complain that 254 clients and 15 companies on a 2048x2048 is really slow, and that it used to run fine on a 386...
05:27<dihedral>it's their own silly fault if they configure a game to have more load on their server then the server can handle
05:27<dihedral>the games capability does not mean an admin has to configure it to max capability :-P
05:28<dihedral>i can configure counter strike source to run real slow on my computer :-P
05:29<@Darkvater>excel 200
05:29<@Darkvater>eh; wrong window
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05:39*roboboy ponders playing some scooter on zernebok radio along with some other stuff
05:40<roboboy>if anyone wants to listen I shall play the said music
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05:41<petern>why would anyone willingly listen to scooter?
05:42<roboboy>because (I Like It Loud)
05:42<roboboy>and the like it
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05:44<roboboy>gah wrong channel for those staements
05:44*roboboy goes downstairs
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05:49<@Darkvater>dammit, I hate it when support is right
05:49<@Darkvater>called them that their stupid program is not working, was instructed to reboot the pc
05:49<@Darkvater>and it works
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06:00<planetmaker>[11:41] <petern> why would anyone willingly listen to scooter? <-- years ago... not sure today :P
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06:01<roboboy>I still like them
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06:38<petern>0 / 255, 0 / 15
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06:38<petern>hmm, i should remove pgs, as nobody can ever find that...
06:39<petern>dead station newgrfs
06:40<petern>i think they were gpl though
06:40<petern>but never put on grfcrawler
06:41<petern>min_players 2
06:41<petern>'min_clients' is an unknown patch setting.
06:42<petern>min_active_clients :o
06:42<dihedral>min_companies could also be fun :-D
06:42<petern>renamed for no good reason :(
06:42<petern>a viewing spectator is an active client
06:42<dihedral>specs dont count
06:42<petern>an idle player is an unactive client!
06:43<petern>min_players made perfect sense
06:43<dihedral>uh - you just reminded me
06:43<dihedral>i need to add that check
06:43<dihedral>no - not at that time
06:43<dihedral>because you had players = companies and clients = players back then
06:43<dihedral>so min_players could have led people to assume it was related to companies
06:44<petern>min_players was the bit that was right
06:44<petern>how do i set this variable?
06:44<petern>patch network.min_active_clients
06:45<petern>way more complicated :o
06:46<petern>well, i guess that was nice
06:46<petern>my old config which defaulted to min_players 1... was now not paused
06:46<petern>still, it's the only server with 15 company slots :D
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06:57<dihedral>petern, if you manually unpause a game that was paused due to not having enough players, the feature does not work anylonger anyway
06:58<dihedral>i.e. min_players = 2, one client online, rcon unpause, client leaves, game does not pause
06:58<yorick>what happens if another client joins, so 2 clients online, and one leaves
06:59<petern>why should it pause?
06:59<yorick>because there's less than min_players
06:59<petern>you manually unpaused it, you can manually pause it
07:00<yorick>but will it automatically unpause then?
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07:17<dihedral>petern: if you manually pause the game, and then the 2nd client joins, it will not unpause that game
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07:18<dihedral>also, if the option is set to start a game in paused mode, and you have min_players set, the game will not unpause as soon as enough players are in the game
07:18<dihedral>so the pause and min_player pause is kinda wiggled
07:18<@Rubidium>they're two different things
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07:18<@Rubidium>both must be off to be unpaused
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07:19<@Rubidium>though I think manual unpause can force-unpause the min_player pause
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07:46<edeca>I'm just playing with double tracks for the first time, are there any good solutions using PBS for overtaking or should I just use pre-signals like the wiki example?
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07:50<Eddi|zuHause>problem with pbs-overtaking is that it cannot distinguish between slow and fast trains
07:51<Eddi|zuHause>so you inevitably end up with slow trains reserving an overtaking spot and blocking fast trains
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07:54<edeca>Ah, pre-signals can?
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07:59<edeca>Argh, why isn't there copy&paste in trunk :)
08:00<@Rubidium>because nobody has written it properly
08:00<edeca>The current implementation is bad? :(
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08:11<edeca>Hrm, must I use 2 way pre-signals for overtaking blocks/
08:12<@Rubidium>edeca: yes; massive amounts of code duplication and even PBS isn't supported yet (AFAIK)
08:13<edeca>Rubidium: Damn, that's not so good :)
08:13<edeca>There should be a bounty system like horde has so that openttd lovers can sponsor features they want the most
08:18<@Rubidium>not to mention that the patch has still 16 todos
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>you can "sponsor" features easily
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08:19<Eddi|zuHause>just implement them
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>or pay someone to implement them full time. prepare some 10.000€ though ;)
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08:22<@Rubidium>+ if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_X))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_X, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
08:22<@Rubidium>+ if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_Y))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_Y, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
08:22<@Rubidium>+ if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_UPPER))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_UPPER, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
08:22<@Rubidium>+ if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_LOWER))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_LOWER, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
08:22<@Rubidium>+ if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_LEFT))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_LEFT, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
08:22<@Rubidium>+ if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_RIGHT))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_RIGHT, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
08:22<@Rubidium>^ that's copy-paste (and it happens a lot) in copy-paste
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>well, ever heard of a paste bin? :p
08:23<edeca>Eddi|zuHause: Heh, I wish I had the spare time to play & code it! But I think my programming skills would need lots of work
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08:23<blathijs>edeca: No better way to improve coding skills than to start coding :-)
08:23<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: yes... but posting links doesn't get much attention in here
08:23<edeca>blathijs: Yes, this is true
08:24<edeca>www.playbo... hehe
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08:26<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: and copy pasting a copy paste from the copy paste patch is soo much nicer than copy pasting a link with a copy paste of a copy paste from the copy paste patch
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, shouldn't that be solved with something like a "for each trackbit in tile:"
08:28<@Rubidium>now imagine the same to happen with say signals
08:28<edeca>I'm assuming TRACK_FOO are constants that one could easily use in a for loop, rather than if..if..if..if..if.
08:29<edeca>Anyhow, that's horribly inefficient if it doesn't use 'else if' :(
08:29<@Rubidium>but only instead of copying 1 line 6 times copy 11 lines 6 times with *only* TRACK_X as difference between them
08:29<edeca>If it's pasting TRACK_X, it then goes on to check at least 5 other things
08:30<@Rubidium>edeca: ever noticed that there can be more than 1 track piece on a rail tile?
08:30<edeca>Rubidium: I hadn't considered that ;)
08:30<edeca>Rubidium: I mean, damn, you can do that?! :)
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08:31<OwenS>One thing I notice is theyre reimplementing GB there as well...
08:32<@Rubidium>and hasbit
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08:33<OwenS>And that code would wordwrap when in many people's editors :p
08:33<OwenS>Or go off the edge...
08:33<@Rubidium>it's only half a screen wide in my editor on my poor laptop
08:34<OwenS>I use big-ish fonts
08:34<OwenS>Nicer on the eyse when staring at code all day
08:35<@Rubidium>yup... the eternal battle between seeing more context and not straining the eye too much
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08:36<OwenS>I have good eyesight... and would like to keep it that way :p
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08:37<OwenS>194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 120 112 000 Old_age Always - 30
08:37<OwenS>I hope my disk is lying when it claims it's 120 deg C!
08:38<SmatZ>it's 30C
08:38<dihedral>hello SmatZ
08:38<SmatZ>190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 056 053 045 Old_age Always - 44 (Lifetime Min/Max 17/44)
08:38<SmatZ>hello dihedral :)
08:38<SmatZ>merry Christmas to you :)
08:39<@Rubidium>what tool's that output of? smartctl?
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08:39<Eddi|zuHause2>OwenS: 120 is the raw value, 30 is the "human readable" value
08:39<SmatZ>smartctl -A /dev/sdb
08:39<OwenS>Why does it say VALUE MAX .... RAW at the end? And the RAW is the 30
08:40<dihedral>smatzctl -A /dev/sdb :-P
08:40<OwenS>And just to be weird, the topmost of my drives is coolest...
08:40<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, because it has the best airflow
08:40<OwenS>The bottom most one is right behind a 160mm fan...
08:41<Eddi|zuHause2>well... so much for that theory :p
08:41<OwenS>The middle most one is warmest at 34C
08:42<OwenS>My CPUs at 32C... And the GPU is being silly at 63C
08:42<Eddi|zuHause2>194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0002 166 166 000 Old_age Always - 33 (Lifetime Min/Max 16/66)
08:43<OwenS>How can you be at 63C when all your doing is outputting a 2D framebuffer?!
08:46<Eddi|zuHause2>all your doing is belong to us
08:47<OwenS>Silly GPU with higher maximum power consumption than my CPU...
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08:50<planetmaker>OwenS: I'm quite sure the human GPU also uses more power than the rest of the brain :P
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08:53<@Rubidium>a human's graphical output is kinda limited
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09:02<Eddi|zuHause2>that was fun :p
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09:10<@Belugas>MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL!!
09:10<@Belugas>okay... now that i've said it, i can return drink.. hem... working
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>you work on christmas eve?
09:12<Gekz>I did >_>
09:12<Gekz>its christmas in australia already btw
09:13<petern>i got back from work a little while ago
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09:14<@Belugas>I do indeed
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09:14<@Belugas>enjoy it then, Gekz
09:15<OwenS>O_o wtf happened there?
09:15<Gekz>Belugas: I hate it
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09:15<@Belugas>you were kicked for insanity on the irc, OwenS
09:15<@Belugas>sorry for you Gekz
09:15<Gekz>sorry for me indeed.
09:15<@Belugas>and sorry for you too, petern
09:16<OwenS>"*Disconnected (No route to host)."
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09:17<OwenS>Now the cats trying to eat my USB christmas tree...
09:21<@Belugas>this is why i install our christmas tree outside this year. my tiger would not chew on it :)
09:21<@Belugas>damn she's a giant one...
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09:23<OwenS>The cats haven't pulled down our main christmas tree this year
09:23<@Belugas>becasue you do not have a giant cat ;)
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09:24<OwenS>They pulled it down twice last year
09:24<OwenS>They like the fluffy baubles, so we now keep them at the top :p
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09:26<@Belugas> <--- here's my giant only-one-year-old kitty, along whit my not so little 5 years son
09:27<OwenS>Maine Coon by any chance?
09:27<@Belugas>indeed!! WOW!! Congrats :D
09:28<OwenS>I recognize the tiger like face and size
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09:29<dihedral>my word, Belugas, you have a huge ass son :-D
09:30<@Belugas>traveled 6 hours (back and forth) to meet the owner of the cattery she came for (in a snow storm...) but it was worth it. That kitty is an absolute treasure
09:31<@Belugas>dihedral, his ass is pretty much normal ;)
09:31<Wolfolo|AWAY>is it the cat which is too much big :P
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09:32<OwenS>Our two cats turned out to be treasures too =)
09:32<OwenS>Though a bit ambiguous: Theyre related, but we don't know if theyre sisters or mother and daughter
09:33<OwenS>Gotta love them... most of the time
09:35<dihedral>my move clients patch... hihihi
09:36<dihedral>max_companies setting is not considered when a company is started
09:36<dihedral>that is really cute
09:36<OwenS> <- My two cats :)
09:36<OwenS>Taken a couple of years ago
09:37<OwenS>(Theyre allowed to explore out back off leads now)
09:37<Forked>they look ..real happy ;p
09:37<dihedral>as long as i send the correct docommand and am a spectator i can create companies
09:38<OwenS>Forked: Cats have different expressions to humans ;-)
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>you have cats on leashes?
09:39<@Belugas>i love the black one :)
09:39<OwenS>Used to. Theyre now allowed to roam freely
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09:39<OwenS>Black cat is Bliss, tortie is Faith
09:40<OwenS>Bliss is a lot smaller, and somehow has lost her tail
09:40<@Belugas>but i would never EVER allowed mine to even put a foot on the outside, leash or not. Anyway it's forbidden by contract with the breeder...
09:40<@Belugas>poor Bliss :(
09:40<OwenS>contract? O_o
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>the poor cat
09:41<@Belugas>yeah... when you buy a pure breed, you are required to sign a contract. no un-claws, no reproduction, no this or no that...
09:41<OwenS>No declawing? Thats already illegal, at least over here
09:41<@Belugas>not in here.
09:42<petern>i'd rather have a moggy anyway :)
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>cats are supposed to roam freely... they only come home for food and sleep
09:42<@Belugas>animal rights is pretty much inexistant, in fact
09:43<OwenS>Ours got tightened at the start of the year
09:43<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, i would not let her outside. she's worth 850$ CDN . sorry, but i don't trust neither humam nature nor nature itself...
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>i would not buy a cat for that kind of price anyway
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>that's just ridiculous
09:44<OwenS>Our house backs on to an enclosed area of gardens, so shes pretty safe
09:44<OwenS>I would say theyre, but Bliss is scared half to death by a strong gust of wind...
09:45<@Belugas>i wish Mina would be too, but she's way too adventurous
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>how many "adventures" could you have indoors?
09:46<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, you pay for something you'll kow you'll gonna get. The race has some features we wanted and that we get and we do appreciate that
09:46<@Belugas>many adventures, when you're with a 5 years old boy :)
09:46<OwenS>Shes also pretty smart though. Faith had made a hammock out of a sheet we had draped over a table and chair to dry. Bliss got up on the chair underneath, looked, up, though "hmm", raised her claws, and stabbed
09:47<@Belugas>plus, daddy is crazy about his little pet, and we do play a lot together
09:47<Forked> & are our two spoiled little .....
09:47<Forked>(slow sql server warning:p)
09:47<svippy>O: Yeah.
09:47<svippy>Very slow.
09:47<Forked>a bit random
09:47<svippy>Wait, is that album title accurate?
09:48<Forked>sverige? yes these were taking during vacation at my parents "cabin" (holiday palace) this summer
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09:48<svippy>Until they give us back Skåne, I am not visiting Sweden.
09:48<Forked>I played quite alot of ottd there when there was little else to do =p
09:49<svippy>Same goes for Turkey.
09:49<OwenS>Who needs an SQL server to serve photos? /me likes the raw speed of Nginx
09:49<svippy>Until they give back Constantinople to the Byzantine Empire, I am not visiting Turkey.
09:49<dihedral>companies should be created on the server and then sent to the clients
09:50<dihedral>rather than the command just sitting in the command queue
09:50<dihedral>or wait
09:50<dihedral>never said nothing
09:50<dihedral>happy x-mas
09:50*dihedral waves
09:50<svippy>OwenS: When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
09:50<dihedral>and now i am off to church
09:50<svippy>Church? Why?
09:52<svippy>OwenS: It is like to Sun Microsystem is every problem an object. Things in Java are objects that shouldn't be objects, but built-in commands. But oh no! As for Microsoft, every problem can be fixed with XML.
09:52<svippy>But we know what XML and violence have in common; if it doesn't work, use more of it.
09:52<OwenS>And to *nix everything is a file descriptor... even your graphics card
09:53<svippy>At least we don't have a faulty registry system.
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09:53<petern>just lots of different systems
09:53<svippy>I am just saying, OwenS.
09:53<svippy>Whoever wrote that gallery was already found of SQL.
09:53<svippy>So it seemed natural to them to include it in their gallery.
09:54<svippy>Even for no apparent reason.
09:54<svippy>Other than they were used to it.
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10:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r14736 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
10:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-12-24 15:29:53
10:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 8 fixed, 37 changed by khaloofah (45)
10:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hebrew - 36 fixed by dodibitran (36)
10:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: indonesian - 39 changed by fanioz (39)
10:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: latvian - 7 fixed, 27 changed by peerer (34)
10:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: serbian - 31 fixed by Jenraux (31)
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>what does a saxon say when he wants to buy a cristmas tree in new york?
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>ä tännschen please
10:32<Wolf01>In Soviet Russia Christmas trees buy you!
10:36<fjb>KGB bought Soviet Russia.
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10:43<Eddi|zuHause>in soviet russia, kgb buys ... wait...
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10:56<fjb>In Russia the KGB owns you.
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10:58<Eddi|zuHause>"Shit. The system has become sentient." - "Friggin' Python." :p
10:58-!-M4rk is now known as Mark
10:58<fjb>Beware of the snakes.
10:58<Wolf01>hahah xkcd
11:05<Bennythen00b>What kinda channel is this then?
11:05<Bennythen00b>Only chatting?
11:06<Wolf01>no, you can also feed Sacro with pr0n and blame devs for not adding your most wanted feature
11:07<fjb>This channel is for killing the internet. But don't tell anybody.
11:07<Bennythen00b>Hahah! xD
11:10<@Belugas>question i might have is... If you do not know what that chanel is for : why did you dropped in ??
11:12<Bennythen00b>Because i love Ottd...?
11:12<Bennythen00b>Good enough reason? :P
11:13<+glx>usually we don't talk about ottd here :)
11:13<Bennythen00b>Whaaat? oO
11:13<@Belugas>nope... we don't...
11:13<OwenS>Earlier we were having a cat discussion
11:13<@Belugas>we talk about code, we bitch each others, cat indeed, music once in a while..
11:14<Bennythen00b>You are crazy and you have got a spare time problem...
11:14<OwenS>And before that having a discussion about hard disk S.M.A.R.T., and the ridiculous temperature of my graphics card
11:14<@Belugas>oh... and we answer stupid questions been asked a thousand times already...
11:14<+glx>OwenS: mine is currently at 52°C
11:14<@Belugas>spare time???? what the hell is that???
11:14<Bennythen00b>Free time
11:15<Bennythen00b>The time when you dont work or go to school
11:15<OwenS>glx, and mine is at 70C
11:15<+glx>passive or active cooling?
11:15<Bennythen00b>Pc nerds
11:15<+glx>that's weird
11:15<+glx>52°C is passive cooling
11:15<OwenS>It's an 8800GTS. It doesn't come in passive cooling
11:15<OwenS>It has a TDP of 125W!
11:16*Belugas is hard at work
11:16<OwenS>And nVIDIA's linux drivers seem to have never heard of underclocking
11:16<+glx>I'd say check the fan
11:16<Bennythen00b>Gotta go, we're gonna have our christmas dinner now. see ya tomorrow
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11:17<OwenS>The fan works fine
11:17<OwenS>It's been like that since I got it
11:17<OwenS>Well, no, it hasn't. When I got it it idled at 80
11:17<OwenS>Then I improoved my case cooling
11:17<+glx>anyway it's quite safe up to 120°C
11:17<Wolf01>ok, you can talk about ottd again
11:17<+glx>but still 80 is a lot when idle
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11:18<OwenS>I've even got a case fan blowing under it
11:19<+glx>[17:16:13] <+glx> 7900GS <-- it's a 7600GS indeed (dunno why I said 7900)
11:19<OwenS>Even the CPUs just at 44C - and thats at moderate load
11:20<+glx>35 for the CPU
11:20<OwenS>OpenTTD is pushing my CPU up to 69% on one core
11:20<+glx>it uses only one core :)
11:21<OwenS>I know that. The other core is mainly running everything else
11:22<+glx>like music ;)
11:22<+glx>one core for ottd and one for timidity should be ok
11:24<OwenS>People listen to the TTD music?
11:24<+glx>some do
11:25<OwenS>I personally prefer to use that core to download MPEG 2 Audio Layer 3 or Vorbis
11:25<OwenS>download? decode even
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11:41<@Belugas>good idea
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12:07<Wolf01>does ttf work for you?
12:07<OwenS>No, I'm having trouble connecting
12:07<OwenS>orudge, ping
12:11<OwenS>OK it's back
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12:51<entropy>where is openttd.cfg, when i compile openttd from sources?
12:51<entropy>(i'm on FreeBSD)
12:52<+glx>and it's explained in the readme
12:55<entropy>oh i didn't see it
12:55<entropy>if i delete it, it'ill restore default?
13:05<entropy>can i change the map size from the console?
13:11<entropy>i don't see that feature in list_cmds
13:11<@Belugas>you might find a reference of the name been used for that command in the miki
13:12<+glx>try list_vars (or something like that)
13:13<entropy>i tryed, nothing
13:14<+glx>hmm it's a patch
13:14<entropy>it's list_patches
13:14<+glx>map_x and map_y
13:17<+glx>game_creation.map_x and game_creation.map_y to be exact
13:22<entropy>hm, new question
13:22<entropy>how to change difficulty options
13:26<SmatZ>the same way
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13:35<OwenS>GAAH! Why does OpenTTD's map download protocol seem to go at a sum total of 10kb/s
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13:39<OwenS>Or, could it not be made to send "I'm alive" packets to the server when it inevitably churns away for 30 seconds after connecting with the mass of packets that have arrived and not yet been processed?
13:40<SmatZ>OwenS: you are the only one who has problem with slow download... you said you are on 8mbit, right?
13:44<OwenS>And I can pull ~350KB/s fine
13:44<OwenS>Over TCP, from across the pond
13:47<Eddi|zuHause># Leise rieselt der Schneeeeeeeeeeeeeee
13:47<Eddi|zuHause># Still und starr ruht der Seeeeeeeeeeeeee
13:48<Eddi|zuHause># Weihnachtlich glänzet der Waaaaaaaaaaaaald
13:48<Eddi|zuHause># Freue dich, 's Christkind kommt baaaaaaaaaaald
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14:13<benjamingoodger>in other news, merry christmas eve for those in UTC-1 and further east
14:13<welshdragon>eww, UTC
14:14<welshdragon>GMT ftw
14:14<benjamingoodger>and merry christmas for those in UTC+5 and further east.
14:14<OwenS>eww, UTC and GMT
14:14<OwenS>TAI ftw
14:14<OwenS>Temps Atomique International, or International Atomic Time
14:14<OwenS>UTC = TAI + a few seconds
14:15<OwenS>TAI doesn't have UTC's silly leap seconds
14:15<benjamingoodger>ah, yes
14:15<benjamingoodger>the trouble with atomic time is that it doesn't work properly compared to the earth
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>and happy new year for the people in UTC+173?
14:15<OwenS>Do you care that midnight is 8 seconds off?
14:16<benjamingoodger>absolutment! :)
14:16<benjamingoodger>and yes, I do
14:16<planetmaker>23 seconds ;)
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>you might not care now, but in 2000 years?
14:16<OwenS>Suggestion: Define UTC to be TAI+x, define everything else to be UTC+x, then you have a nice absolute timebase to use when storing timestamps
14:17<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause, In 2000 years I'd expect most of humanity would not live on earth
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>i mean look at those people that used the caesarian calender
14:17<OwenS>Cause if they do, were screwed
14:17*Belugas yawns
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>they also said "do you really care if you are a day off in 4 years"?
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: didn't you like my singing about snoooooooooow?
14:18<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Will people who don't live in Earths planetary rotation care? :p
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>they do have night shifts on the enterprise
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>why would they do that, if they didn't care?
14:20<OwenS>Who says that the Enterprise is using Earth's timezone
14:20<OwenS>Is it not equally possible that some of their ships are using, e.g., Vulcans?
14:20<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause... hem... sorry... i'm dual-glot
14:20<@Belugas>not ploygot :)
14:21<OwenS>In any case, Star Trek isn't a good model of the future :p
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>your education is lacking ;)
14:21<@Belugas>by the way... Eddi|zuHause, i should mention that we're again in the midst of a snow storm
14:21<OwenS>For a start, all ships always meet the right way up
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>we have not a single flake of snow for christmas
14:22<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, a question... what the hell would german linguistic skills do me good in this american ground? ;)
14:22<OwenS>In real life, they'd probably meet at odd angles, with a high probability of one going backwards
14:22<@Belugas>haaaaa..... REALITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:22*Belugas preforms the sign of the cross numerous times
14:23*Belugas throws Holy Water on Owess
14:23<@Belugas>and /me goes back to the drinking part of the job
14:23*OwenS grabs G36 and fires several 5.56mm rounds into Belugas chest :p
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14:25<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: it's much more funny when they get hit that they hang inclined and everybody falls down
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: <- an explanation why it wouldn't even do you any good if you were in germany :p
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>(very satirical)
14:26<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause, I'll never understand why they route so many major power conduits behind consoles
14:26<OwenS>The Star Fleet engineers obviously like building deathtraps
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14:27<petern>is it over yet?
14:31<@Belugas>or has it just begun?
14:31<OwenS>rofl at that article on German
14:32<yorick>I live article
14:33<@Belugas>mmh... a Queensryche song... don't think you would have known, petern
14:34<OwenS>Interestingly, while Japanese may look like one of the most complex languages on the planet, spoken Japanese is even simpler than English
14:34<Eddi|zuHause> <- well, there is also the classical version of that (Mark Twain)
14:36<OwenS>Mainly because the Japanese didn't get invaded every 100 years and have foreigners stuffing up their rules with their imported words
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>(it uses a slightly outdated version of german occasionally)
14:38<yorick>japanese is just hard to write and to pronounce
14:38<OwenS>And the other way round to most languages
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know any japanese, but i don't think it would be too difficult to learn
14:39<OwenS>The main difficulty learning it is remembering all the different kanji
14:42<yorick>and dutch is hard to pronounce, write, speak, but reading it is easy :)
14:43<OwenS>Fun fact: people who speek svSE can understand svFI, but not vise versa - because the Finns speak what is essentially 1700s Swedish (When not speaking Finnish that is)
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14:45<Eddi|zuHause>that is a natural development for groups of same heritage but isolated areas
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14:46<Eddi|zuHause>the german that is spoken in pennsylvania is not easily understandable for the german that is spoken in romania
14:47<@Belugas>hehe.. ask glx if what we are speaking in here is really french ^_^
14:47<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause, Finland and Sweden are neighbouring countries. And, up until relatively recently, Finland was a part of Sweden...
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but there is still a big chunk of sea between them
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>so exchange of both areas is sparse
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>of course, many german "colonies" in the east were cleaned up during the march of the red army in WWII
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14:53<petern>dihedral! you're still on 11/8 ;)
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>the isolation effect also not necessarily needs to come out of geographical distance. there are neighbouring villages in central germany, which have so different dialects, that they do not understand each other
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>i need to learn how to formulate shorter sentences.
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>i have given out draft versions of my diploma thesis, and they come back with several instances of "this sentence is too long", "make this sentence shorter", "this sentence is DEFINITELY too long"
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14:58<OwenS>My Chemistry teacher remarked that, at university, she handed in a long essay to her teacher. When she got it back, he'd crossed out everything but the first paragraph on the first two pages, with the statement "VERBAL DIARRHEA! You answered that question fully in the first paragraph!"
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15:04<Eddi|zuHause>no, i'm not a person of many words
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>when i wrote essays in school, they typically had like half the words the other people had
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>but sentences not under half a page long :p
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>making the whole essay consist of 5 sentences :p
15:05<OwenS>I get complained at for overuse of semicolons and commas
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>to which my father once replied: "well, i have written a 2 page letter in one sentence"
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>well, my german teacher said: "well, you are the only person in this class who can formulate a sentence of half a page, that is grammatically entirely correct"
15:07<OwenS>I've also been asked what words mean on occasion - case in point, verboten. Which is interestingly stolen from German
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>you know, german has really genious rules of enclosing minor sentences in other minor sentences, and enclosing those into a major sentence
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15:08<Eddi|zuHause>well, yes, you guys only know that from Hogans Heroes ;)
15:08<OwenS>In English we just string them together by using too many commas, semicolons and dashes
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>it's no fun when all you have to do is replace a period by a comma
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>german has the additional fun of splitable verbs
15:09<OwenS>Period? Whats this period you speak of?
15:10<OwenS>Silly Americanisms
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>where one part ends up in the begginning of the sentence, and the other part at the end of the sentence
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>and that part at the end can completely change the meaning of the entire sentence
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>and inbetween those, you can put an endless amount of subsentences
15:12<OwenS>I also enjoy nesting parentheses - which confuses my non programmer friends to no end
15:13<OwenS>Using boolean rather than natural logic is also fun :)
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>there are huge differences if you say: "es fällt ... schwer" [it's difficult], "es fällt ... auf" [it catches attention], "es fällt ... um" [it collapses], or "es fällt ... ein" [being remembered (passive form)]
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>where "fallen" [falling] is the base verb in all cases
15:15<yorick>to fall*
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>and "..." can expand to two pages worth of minor sentences ;)
15:16<dihedral>petern: i am not :-P
15:17<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause, German is the Rube Goldberg Machine of languages
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: honestly, save for missing "u"s, i cannot tell what is an americanism
15:18<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause, Lots of cases of zs, such as realizes/realises, the us, and calling the "full stop" the "period". But thats mostly it
15:18<yorick>forbidden = verboden in dutch ;)
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: it would be much easier if you could just call it a "point"
15:20<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause, That works too! :p
15:20<OwenS>The term full stop tends only to be used to illustrate a point
15:24<petern>dihedral, not now, no :)
15:25<petern>dihedral, seems to say 1 spectator is on all the time, though :o
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16:11<@Belugas>merry christmas and see you soon.
16:12<@Belugas>i'm gong to spend a lot of time with my family now
16:12<@Belugas>bye all
16:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14737 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r10211): memory leak in Action 0x0F (new town names)
16:28<OwenS>By the way - I'm gonna shoot anyone sad enough to make a commit on Christmas day (their time) :p
16:32<SmatZ>can you shoot over the internet?
16:32<yorick>he can
16:32*SmatZ hides
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>he will first have to commit it :p
16:40<fjb>Please shoot only religious Christians.
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>christmas is not even the highest holiday of the christians
16:42<yorick>please only shoot people who celebrate christmas
16:44<fjb>Please don't shoot anybody. I'm pacifist.
16:46-!-Nite_Owl [] has joined #openttd
16:46<yorick>please shoot only him
16:46<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:46*fjb hides behind Nite_Owl.
16:47<Nite_Owl>Whoa - wait a minute
16:47<yorick>nite owl is very small
16:47<yorick>you can't hide behind him
16:48*fjb hides behind yorick.
16:49<Nite_Owl>thank you
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>it's no loss of him, please shoot anyway :p
16:49<Nite_Owl>and did you not have to pass through the metal detector
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16:50<Eddi|zuHause>i have no menthos
16:50*yorick farts
16:52*fjb hides behind Eddi|zuHause.
16:52<Nite_Owl>I thought they might be down
16:52<yorick>logs are down
16:52<fjb>Who shot the logs?
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>who let the logs out?
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>well, highlight SpComb^ properly :p
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17:01<Sacro>I was throwing rice at an Indian wedding and accidentally started a pilau fight.
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>i only know pillow fights
17:04<Nite_Owl>A vulture is boarding a plane and has in his hand two dead rabbits. The security guard tells him "Sorry - only one carrion allowed per passenger."
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>too many plays on words... i do not fully grasp it...
17:12<OwenS>Dead animals mainly
17:13<OwenS>1. (uncountable) Dead flesh; carcasses
17:13<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Aas
17:14<Nite_Owl>plays off of a carry on piece of luggage on an airplane
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that part i got ;)
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17:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14738 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r13576): GCF_STATIC belongs to GRFConfig::flags, not GRFConfig::status
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17:47<fjb>Oh, yorick and Nite_Owl got shot.
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18:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14739 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r13675): when a static GRF was forcibly disabled, wrong data was released, causing memory leaks and wrong behaviour or crashes
18:05<@Rubidium>SmatZ: you just signed your death warrant...
18:05-!-svippy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:06<SmatZ>Rubidium: what have I done? (scared!)
18:06<@Rubidium>22:28 < OwenS> By the way - I'm gonna shoot anyone sad enough to make a commit on Christmas day (their time) :p
18:06<SmatZ>hehehehe :)
18:06<@Rubidium>isn't it Christmas day now?
18:06<planetmaker>He's playing!
18:07<SmatZ>err I am in China (for OwenS :)
18:09<dihedral>happy X-Mas
18:09<dihedral>is there a way to send an error message to a client (from the server) without the client being disconnected?
18:09<SmatZ>nice Christmas, dihedral :)
18:09<dihedral>family has gone to bed
18:10<dihedral>so i get time to wrap perssies and do some patching :-P
18:10<dihedral>Rubidium, i meant with the error box popup
18:10<dihedral>but chat will do too i guess
18:10<@Rubidium>error messages mean you've done something really really bad and thou shalt be punished ;)
18:11<dihedral>Rubidium, if i am connected to a game and issue CMD_COMPANY_CTRL i can create the maximum number of possible companies
18:11<dihedral>regardless of max_companies setting
18:11<dihedral>i must be spectator though :-)
18:12<OwenS>Rhubidium: I'ts not christmas for another 48 minutes in the UK
18:13<dihedral>and christmas eve has nothing to do with christmas?
18:13<fjb>Its christmas time. lets go shoot people in the name of god.
18:13<benjamin_>merry christmas, UTC+1
18:14-!-benjamin_ is now known as benjamingoodger
18:15<@Rubidium>looks like someone's already intoxicated
18:17<benjamingoodger>I wish ¬.¬
18:18<dihedral>if clients at least would know the current value of the server's max_companies setting
18:18<dihedral>but that is also easy to work around
18:18<@Rubidium>dihedral: the server should handle that
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18:19<dihedral>i agree with you there
18:19<dihedral>it would just be nice for the gui too
18:19<dihedral>so i could hide the 'new company' button
18:19<@Rubidium>~ line 910 and further from network_server
18:20<dihedral>i have
18:20<dihedral>i added a check before adding the command to the queue
18:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14740 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r13675)(r14739): we shouldn't skip all remaining sprites neither
18:20<dihedral>however, it's the gui button i would also like to hide
18:20<@Rubidium>hmm... could pass the "current" max number of companies in there to CMD_CTRL_PLAYER
18:21<dihedral>or make the company update packet a more general update packet
18:22<dihedral>and send an update on all companies + the max_companies value
18:22<dihedral>and push the update on every pw change + max_company change + join
18:22<dihedral>where join would only push the data to one client
18:22<dihedral>and the other 2 to all clients
18:23<@Rubidium>you've got the same issue with number of spectators
18:23<dihedral>i.e. joinin spectators in the middle of the game?
18:23<@Rubidium>going from company to spectator
18:23<dihedral>perhaps if i make a network action popup an error window?
18:24<@Rubidium>could go "beyond" the spectator limit
18:24<SmatZ>I guess this can happen when you go bankrupt
18:24<SmatZ>in trunk
18:24<@Rubidium>SmatZ: very true
18:25<@Rubidium>but that's imo not really a bug; you can't bankrupt yourself in MP, right? So going to spectator means admin intervention
18:25<SmatZ>(except the server may kick you when you issue a command in the moment you bankrupt - you sen command with your old ID, but you should send it with ID == 255)
18:25<SmatZ>you can bankrupt in MP :)
18:26<SmatZ>if you have "red numbers" for > 1 year
18:27<@Rubidium>what's FS#1993 about then?
18:28<SmatZ>about singleplayer I guess
18:28<SmatZ>or there broke something since I last looked (~1 year ago)
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18:29<SmatZ>eg. company bankrupted in singleplayer, but later was loaded in MP, and it never disappeared
18:31<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> error messages mean you've done something really really bad and thou shalt be punished ;) <- my language sense tells me it should be "shallst" [or something]?
18:32<@Rubidium>then fix you language sense ;)
18:33<@Rubidium>"thou shalt not steal"
18:34*Rubidium is off to bed
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, might both be steps of the language development
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>or rather... language degration
18:38<SmatZ>good night Rubidium
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18:53<OwenS>Night all
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19:09<isa>hello to everybode //how are you?
19:17<SmatZ>hello isa
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19:26<svippery>When does monorail start to appear?
19:26<SmatZ>in 1999 or so (with default grf)
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19:48<svippery>Will banks ever increase production?
19:49<fjb>That's called a bubble.
19:57<benjamingoodger>what do banks produce?
19:57-!-benjamingoodger is now known as ben|xmas
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>the end of the capitalistic world as we know it
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>(otherwise known as the financial crysis)
19:59<ben|xmas>crisis. crysis is a crappy demo of an overreaching game engine, thinly disguised as a crappy overreaching game
19:59-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
19:59<ben|xmas>no, seriously
19:59<ben|xmas>what do banks produce in OTTD? valuables?
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20:01<Eddi|zuHause>temperate banks, at least
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>arctic and tropic banks accept gold, i don't know what they produce
20:02<fjb>Tropic banks accept diamonds.
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>same thing
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>have i mentioned that i never seriously played tropic?
20:03<fjb>You did now.
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>i played artic once, because i love the snowy rails
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>but i found the vehicle set seriously lacking
20:04<fjb>Playing tropic is fun. You can be evil and cut down the rain forrest.
20:05<ben|xmas>well, the reason the vehicle set is lacking is because the entire idea of multiple climates appears to be a cheesy marketing afterthought by MPS
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>i wished that MB released an alpine grf that does not interfere with industry sets
20:09<fjb>Will he ever release anything again beside vapoware?
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20:13<ben|xmas>vapourware is the lifeblood of the industry
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20:15<Eddi|zuHause>apparently there are test versions around
20:17<ben|xmas>vapourware forms an important part of the slashdot economy. in its absence, there would be a severe lack of crappy puns
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20:59<@Belugas>[20:09] <fjb> Will he ever release anything again beside vapoware? <-- yes, he still produces stuff. Mainly, filt and venon sent toward OTTD
21:00<Sacro>Belugas: "filt" and "venon"?
21:01<@Belugas>and of course... promotion of Patch "It is in patch for eons" etc
21:01<@Belugas>Sacro: venom
21:01<@Belugas>filt? not sure...
21:01*Belugas checks
21:02<@Belugas>i think
21:03<Sacro>ah yes
21:03<ben|xmas>try "bile" and "vitriol"
21:04<ben|xmas>"vitriol" is particularly great because it gives rise to the adjective "vitriolic"
21:04<Sacro>that is a nice word
21:04*Belugas pus on Myst IV -Revelatio. Tyime for a littefun ;)
21:04*ben|xmas consumes sixth mince pie
21:04<@Belugas>indee ben|xmas, indeed
21:05*Eddi|zuHause takes another Spekulatius
21:06<ben|xmas>in fact...
21:06-!-ben|xmas is now known as mincepie
21:06<Eddi|zuHause>you are what you eat?
21:06<Eddi|zuHause>that phrase somehow sounds better in german
21:07<mincepie>"sie sind was wir essen"?
21:07<Eddi|zuHause>"du bist, was du isst"
21:08<mincepie>yes, that's very good
21:08<Eddi|zuHause>[note: i even used new spelling]
21:08<mincepie>well, it does look a little silly with a glyph that looks like a capital B
21:09<mincepie>I've never got the hang of that
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>you probably have to be native speaker to get that :p
21:09<mincepie>it's bad enough capitalising every noun
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>that is a great thing to do
21:10<mincepie>my brain reads capitalised things as proper nouns, pausing before them, and such
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>makes syntax parsing way easier
21:10<mincepie>it interrupts the flow of the conversation.
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21:12<mincepie>however, german is the best language ever devised for shouting
21:12<mincepie>french is good, but it doesn't quite match up :)
21:13<Eddi|zuHause>in french, every insult sounds like a love pledge
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21:14<Eddi|zuHause>i zapped through channels today, and noticed that i understand way too little french
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>i did, however, understand that the woman said the equivalent of "mirror, mirror on the wall"
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>[and thus i identified the piece as the fairy tale "Schneewittchen" (sleeping beauty)]
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21:16<mincepie>ah, that's a great ballet
21:18<mincepie>"mirror, mirror on the wall" is from Snow White
21:18<+glx>I don't remember any mirror in sleeping beauty :)
21:19<Eddi|zuHause>snow white, yes, mistranslation
21:20<+glx>you zapped on M6 ?
21:20<Eddi|zuHause>no, it was some kind of presentation channel that had multiple pictures
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21:21<Eddi|zuHause>is listed as "mosaique" here, or something
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21:22<Eddi|zuHause>i assumed M6 to be one of the french paytv channels
21:22<+glx>it's not a pay tv
21:22<+glx>it's one of the 6 analog channels
21:26<Eddi|zuHause>fine... anyway, i zapped away after 5 minutes of understanding no word :P
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---Logclosed Thu Dec 25 00:00:28 2008