| --- | Log | opened Tue Dec 30 00:00:39 2008 |
| 00:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | George: that statement was highly exaggerated |
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| 06:58 | <petern> | bah, i can't get tortoise going with svn+ssh :/ |
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| 07:08 | <+dihedral> | petern: istall winssh |
| 07:08 | <+dihedral> | iirc it's sshwindows.sf.net |
| 07:08 | <+dihedral> | that might help |
| 07:09 | <+dihedral> | that's ssh via cygwin |
| 07:09 | <+dihedral> | and tortoise should be able to use that |
| 07:09 | <petern> | er |
| 07:10 | <petern> | it's supposed to work with putty keys by itself |
| 07:12 | <+dihedral> | oh |
| 07:12 | <+dihedral> | that's a bummmer |
| 07:13 | <Alberth> | petern: If you don't mind using a free version of a commercial product, smartsvn is known to work (at my work many Win* users use it to access our svn repositories). |
| 07:13 | <petern> | i just used anonymous access in the end :p |
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| 07:18 | <@Rubidium> | petern: if Belugas can set it up, you should be able to too ;) |
| 07:20 | <petern> | :/ |
| 07:20 | <petern> | it works for putty :/ |
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| 07:24 | <petern> | oh for the love of apt... |
| 07:29 | <petern> | this dxsdk installer is really shit |
| 07:29 | <petern> | how many times does it really need to unpack an archive... :o |
| 07:31 | <petern> | gah, dxguid.lib missing :o |
| 07:34 | * | dihedral pats his mac |
| 07:34 | <+dihedral> | things can be so easy |
| 07:35 | <petern> | fucking thing |
| 07:36 | <petern> | turns out the mar 2008 sdk was already installed |
| 07:36 | <petern> | so i downloaded and installed 460MB of aug 2007 sdk for no reason |
| 07:36 | <petern> | just that the paths were set up in msvc |
| 07:37 | <petern> | when i know they have been done automatically in the past |
| 07:41 | <yorick> | is there any GetSignalDirectionFromTrack function? |
| 07:44 | <+dihedral> | did you grep? |
| 07:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | any such function would most probably be found in rail_func.h |
| 07:45 | <yorick> | yes, I did grep |
| 07:45 | <yorick> | and there is no rail_func.h |
| 07:46 | <Alberth> | is there any value for such a function? (I can drive in any direction on any track as long as I don't pass a signal) |
| 07:46 | <yorick> | there is if you want to draw/read |
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| 07:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yorick: sorry, track_func.h |
| 07:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or something |
| 07:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | maybe rail.h |
| 07:49 | <yorick> | rather some _map.h file |
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| 07:56 | * | petern ponders this acceleration thingy |
| 07:56 | <petern> | mass (kg) * speed (mph) * coeff = resistance in N (but * 4 for some reason?) |
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| 08:01 | <+dihedral> | petern, "and then a lot of magic occurs right here" :-P |
| 08:02 | <petern> | s/magic/shit/, perhaps |
| 08:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that is exactly the kind of problem that occurs when code quality is not checked properly and patches are included too early |
| 08:05 | <petern> | dihedral, for instance, why is engine power involved in braking at all? |
| 08:05 | <+dihedral> | can one not break with the engine? |
| 08:05 | <+dihedral> | but i guess not on trains |
| 08:05 | <+dihedral> | works nicely in cars |
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| 08:06 | <+dihedral> | going 100mph? put in the first gear see what happens :-D |
| 08:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | dihedral: they can, but mechanical brakes are independent from engine power |
| 08:06 | <+dihedral> | yep |
| 08:06 | <Wolf01> | hello |
| 08:06 | <+dihedral> | hi Wolf01 |
| 08:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | modern engines have regenerative brakes, for example |
| 08:06 | <+dihedral> | weight, speed, and break power? |
| 08:06 | <+dihedral> | (overall total) |
| 08:07 | <+dihedral> | i.e. mass :-P |
| 08:07 | <+dihedral> | anyway |
| 08:07 | <+dihedral> | heading out |
| 08:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there might be "unbroken" (:p) axle |
| 08:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | s |
| 08:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | e.g. early freight wagons in UKRS |
| 08:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | which is the entire reason for attaching a braking wagon |
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| 08:12 | <petern> | hmm |
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| 08:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | may i propose a model for track inclination? |
| 08:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | http://paste.openttd.org/178325 |
| 08:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | where / means a sloped track, and _ means a flat straight track |
| 08:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i.e. to have 1% incline you cannot have curves or switches in 3 tiles radius |
| 08:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (it should then tell this inclination in the query window) |
| 08:19 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or possibly the last track bit might be curved. so that a curve right before and after the slope would fall into the 3% case |
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| 08:25 | <petern> | hmm |
| 08:25 | <petern> | what about |
| 08:25 | <petern> | ___ |
| 08:25 | <petern> | \___ |
| 08:25 | <petern> | \___ |
| 08:25 | <petern> | is that 2 * 1% slopes? |
| 08:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes |
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| 08:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i didn't want to make the check too complicated |
| 08:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | with this version, you would check at most 6 additional tiles to determine the slope incline |
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| 08:36 | <petern> | hmm |
| 08:36 | <petern> | i can simplify this |
| 08:36 | <petern> | and make the units make sense |
| 08:37 | <petern> | and fix the air drag bug, i think |
| 08:37 | <petern> | and resistance... assuming i'm reading this properly |
| 08:38 | <petern> | which i'm not |
| 08:38 | <petern> | never mind |
| 08:38 | <petern> | damn it, msvc can apply code changes while running |
| 08:40 | <petern> | i don't understand the conversion from km/h to mph |
| 08:40 | <petern> | these equations are simpler with km/h |
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| 08:40 | <petern> | km/h to m/s being a simple * 3.6 |
| 08:40 | <petern> | er, / 3.6 :) |
| 08:41 | <petern> | oh yes, that's it, game units are not km/h |
| 08:41 | <petern> | le sigh |
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| 08:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i really thing that we should just define 1 mile == 1.6km throughout the entire game, and declare all internal units as being km |
| 08:44 | * | Rubidium already assigns Eddi|zuHause to the bug reports that'll come from that change |
| 08:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but apparently that "breaks" newgrf compatibility, as those expect units to be in miles/1.6, not km |
| 08:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, i know this has been tried before :p |
| 08:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but i think that is one of the "overzealous realism" instances |
| 08:46 | <petern> | internal units should be m/s |
| 08:46 | <petern> | unfortunately that requires integer magic |
| 08:56 | <petern> | there |
| 08:56 | <petern> | sanitized it slight *and* with less maths... |
| 08:57 | <petern> | +lyu |
| 08:57 | <petern> | -u |
| 08:57 | <petern> | sigh |
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| 09:06 | <petern> | hmm |
| 09:07 | <petern> | of course, now the train is much slower.. |
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| 09:11 | <petern> | which makes little sense, as air drag is much lower |
| 09:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you broke the deep magic |
| 09:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it is punishing you |
| 09:12 | <petern> | :( |
| 09:12 | <petern> | i fail to see any conversion compensating for speed being in the wrong units twice |
| 09:15 | <petern> | can somebody please explain resistance *= 4 [N] |
| 09:15 | <petern> | and mass * 4 later on... |
| 09:16 | <petern> | and also 60 = 3% |
| 09:16 | <petern> | (i could try working that one out though) |
| 09:19 | <petern> | according to MB it's simply mass * 3% * 10N |
| 09:20 | <petern> | (so 3% is 30, not 60) |
| 09:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i think the effect of slopes was way too low in the past |
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| 09:24 | <edeca> | yorick: Afternoon |
| 09:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | as cool an engine the E94 (Crocodile) is, it should not be able to pull 2000t trains uphill |
| 09:25 | <yorick> | afternoon |
| 09:26 | <yorick> | edeca: I've been working on the gui somewhat, the code looks better now |
| 09:26 | <edeca> | yorick: I think I've simplified the signal copying now to one FOR_EACH_BIT_SET, but I don't have my data files here to test it ;) |
| 09:26 | <edeca> | yorick: It compiles, but I can play |
| 09:26 | <petern> | force = min(force, mass * 10 * 200); |
| 09:27 | <edeca> | yorick: Oh nice. Perhaps if we're both going to work on it we should decide on tasks :) |
| 09:27 | <petern> | ^ and what is that for? |
| 09:27 | <edeca> | petern: It keeps the flux capacitor oiled |
| 09:27 | <petern> | i'm guessing it was to limit TE before max_TE was done |
| 09:27 | <edeca> | yorick: What have you modified so far? |
| 09:28 | <yorick> | fixed the signals, made the command queue have its own tick call, replaced some stuff by SB |
| 09:32 | <yorick> | and I'm currently getting it to copy all signal types on a tile |
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| 09:33 | <edeca> | oh, you fixed signals? |
| 09:33 | <yorick> | yeah, it actually pastes pbs again :) |
| 09:34 | <yorick> | the bad news: not enough bits to store semaphore type for both signals |
| 09:35 | <edeca> | Well the save format needs an overhaul |
| 09:36 | <edeca> | Perhaps we should make a wiki page and document the format |
| 09:36 | <edeca> | Did you fix the signal copying? I've done that too |
| 09:36 | <edeca> | And we could divide tasks on the wiki too ;) |
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| 09:38 | <edeca> | Compression should be easy for the files on disk, lzo is already used |
| 09:39 | <yorick> | no lzo, zlib ;) |
| 09:39 | <yorick> | uint16 doesn't actually have bit 16, does it :/ |
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| 09:40 | <yorick> | (if you start at 0) |
| 09:40 | <edeca> | No :) |
| 09:40 | <yorick> | meh |
| 09:40 | <edeca> | You need 1 extra bit for semaphore? |
| 09:40 | <+dihedral> | idiot! |
| 09:40 | <yorick> | dihedral: just put me on ignore then, thank you |
| 09:41 | <edeca> | So anyway, have you modified the signal copying? Or do you want me to pastebin what I've done so you can try it |
| 09:41 | <+dihedral> | no - that would be making it too easy for you |
| 09:41 | <yorick> | edeca: no, I actually need 1 extra bit for the signal type :( |
| 09:41 | <+dihedral> | just because you dont want me to comment on stupid stuff you say :-P |
| 09:41 | <edeca> | dihedral: Do you have any cheese? |
| 09:41 | <+dihedral> | why dont you put _me_ on _your_ ignore list, if you dont like hearing what i say to your stuff? |
| 09:42 | <yorick> | good one, thank you, done that |
| 09:42 | <+dihedral> | you are most welcome |
| 09:42 | <yorick> | ah well then, goodbye semaphores :p |
| 09:42 | <edeca> | Haha! |
| 09:43 | <edeca> | Good solution. |
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| 09:43 | <edeca> | What's wrong with the current solution that uses a bool for semaphore? |
| 09:43 | <+dihedral> | the funny thing is, yorick has the bad habit of reading the logs when someone is on his ignore list, because he feels i might be missing something |
| 09:43 | <+dihedral> | and the feeling of missing out, is something he really does not like |
| 09:44 | <yorick> | that there isn't enough space to store both signal types |
| 09:44 | <edeca> | Ah, I see. |
| 09:44 | <edeca> | So you *have* modified the copy code? |
| 09:44 | <edeca> | Are we going to get to the bottom of that? ;) |
| 09:44 | <+dihedral> | and now he will not even dare commenting what i have said, even though he is reading the logs at thegrebs.com :-P |
| 09:44 | <petern> | dihedral |
| 09:44 | <+dihedral> | and pressing F5 every 3 seconds |
| 09:44 | <+dihedral> | petern |
| 09:44 | <petern> | tell me what resistance = 13 * mass / 10 is supposed to be |
| 09:44 | <petern> | and then |
| 09:45 | <petern> | tell me what 60 * number of axles is supposed to be |
| 09:45 | * | edeca pokes yorick |
| 09:46 | <yorick> | edeca: quite a bit :p |
| 09:46 | <+dihedral> | 60 is the power of the break per axle? |
| 09:46 | <yorick> | at least in such a way that breaks template compatibility twice |
| 09:46 | <petern> | no, general resistance, friction, etc |
| 09:46 | <+dihedral> | nice |
| 09:46 | <petern> | it's always there |
| 09:46 | <+dihedral> | ok |
| 09:46 | <+dihedral> | and you wanna store to each wagon how many axles it has? |
| 09:46 | <petern> | (except that number of axles is actually number of wagons) |
| 09:47 | <+dihedral> | oh |
| 09:47 | <+dihedral> | ok |
| 09:47 | <petern> | no, that would be easy |
| 09:47 | <edeca> | yorick: Well shall we make a plan of who will do what then? And some documentation for the format? |
| 09:47 | <petern> | what is the 60, and what is the 1.3? |
| 09:47 | <yorick> | yeah |
| 09:47 | * | petern ponders looking at the ancient floating point implementation |
| 09:48 | <+dihedral> | lbs or newton for the 60 (wild guess - i have honestly not the listest, atm) |
| 09:48 | <edeca> | yorick: On the wiki? Or where? |
| 09:48 | <yorick> | just on the wiki is fine |
| 09:49 | <+dihedral> | for the 1.3 ...... enlighten me? where'd you get it from? |
| 09:50 | <+dihedral> | actually it looks like having unbreaked wagons could turn out to be a huge amount of fun |
| 09:50 | <petern> | ahhhhhhh |
| 09:51 | <petern> | dihedral: 13 * blah / 10 = blah * 1.3 |
| 09:51 | <petern> | celestar should know it all, he committed this realistic acceleration ;) |
| 09:51 | <+glx> | maybe 1.3 is steel on steel, but I can't find it |
| 09:51 | <+dihedral> | petern, yes - i am aware of that, thank you |
| 09:51 | <petern> | okay |
| 09:52 | <petern> | i'm getting the 1.3 from the CODE |
| 09:52 | <petern> | http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/ce0a75460808 |
| 09:52 | <edeca> | yorick: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Build_Templates |
| 09:52 | <+dihedral> | that's what i wanted to know |
| 09:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | once upon a time i had a Tafelwerk... |
| 09:52 | <yorick> | k |
| 09:53 | <+dihedral> | G? |
| 09:53 | <+dihedral> | :P |
| 09:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | last time i know i had it was the physics/electronics practice course |
| 09:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that was in the 3rd semester |
| 09:54 | <+dihedral> | anyway - have to catch a bus |
| 09:54 | <edeca> | yorick: So what are you working on? Care to upload an svn diff so I can check it out? |
| 09:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | have a good hunt ;) |
| 09:54 | <petern> | hehe, the old realistic acceleration had max_te... |
| 09:55 | <yorick> | edeca: care if it's a hg diff? |
| 09:55 | <edeca> | yorick: Well 'a diff' that I can apply to trunk |
| 09:55 | <yorick> | yep |
| 09:55 | <petern> | glx: rolling resistance for steel is listed as 0.0002 to 0.001 |
| 09:55 | <petern> | according to wikipedia |
| 09:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | really, i think that function should be completely ripped out, and cleanly developed from the proper maths |
| 09:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | not by dirty pseudo-optimisation hacks |
| 09:56 | <yorick> | ooh, it shaved 20kb of the size already |
| 09:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | which are not even commented |
| 09:56 | <edeca> | yorick: Well if you've compressed some of the copying, I'm not surprised |
| 09:57 | <petern> | Eddi|zuHause, it is mostly proper maths, just the units are confused |
| 09:57 | <yorick> | http://senduit.com/e879a3 |
| 09:57 | <petern> | for instance |
| 09:57 | <petern> | i've now got... |
| 09:57 | <petern> | /* Air drag */ |
| 09:57 | <petern> | int ad = area * drag_coeff * speed * speed; |
| 09:57 | <petern> | ad /= 128099; // Conversion of speed ^ 2 from 1.6mph to m/s, and then /10000 |
| 09:57 | <petern> | which is still magic |
| 09:57 | <petern> | but commented magic |
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| 09:58 | <edeca> | yorick: Did you check the patch I had uploaded to the forums? |
| 09:58 | <petern> | you'd need floats for doing it all in m/s, which we can't do |
| 09:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | doesn't that risk overflow? |
| 09:58 | <yorick> | edeca: not yet |
| 09:58 | <yorick> | andthing new in it? |
| 09:59 | <petern> | yes, for very high speed |
| 09:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, probably not... i don't think trains will get significantly close to speed of sound (~1000km/h) |
| 09:59 | <edeca> | yorick: Well no. But we're duplicating effort quite obviously, which seems pointless. So we either need to decide who does what or I'll just let you get on with it until you get bored. |
| 10:00 | <petern> | we can use int64 if we needed to |
| 10:04 | <edeca> | yorick: Right, your copying code is a little cleaner than mine (but mine uses FOR_EACH_BIT_SET which Rubidium suggested) |
| 10:04 | <edeca> | yorick: What would you like me to look at later? :) |
| 10:04 | <yorick> | no idea |
| 10:05 | <edeca> | Compression for saved templates? |
| 10:05 | <yorick> | yes :) |
| 10:05 | <yorick> | and the templates might need some kind of versioning |
| 10:05 | <edeca> | OK. Now don't go and randomly do it in the meantime! |
| 10:05 | <yorick> | :p |
| 10:06 | <edeca> | Yes, we do need versioning really. But until you finish fiddling, we should just stick with version 1 :P |
| 10:07 | <yorick> | copying stations might need the distant join stations patch |
| 10:08 | <edeca> | I'll look at how the game does it, but versioning should just be an integer in the template header, right? |
| 10:08 | <yorick> | yes |
| 10:08 | <edeca> | Which means it *needs* a header :) |
| 10:08 | <yorick> | it has one |
| 10:08 | <edeca> | Oh, nice. |
| 10:08 | <yorick> | currently "TMPL" |
| 10:09 | <@Rubidium> | files should always use a header to identify it; just using the extension is usually not enough |
| 10:09 | * | yorick is gone |
| 10:09 | <edeca> | Oh I see, it modifies saveload.cpp for that |
| 10:09 | <edeca> | Rubidium: That makes sense |
| 10:09 | <edeca> | Meh well I was going to work on this patch but yorick is like a little terrier dog |
| 10:10 | <edeca> | Which dampens my enthusiasm slightly :) |
| 10:10 | <+glx> | hehe :) |
| 10:10 | <@Rubidium> | he dampens *everybody's* enthusiasm |
| 10:10 | <edeca> | Perhaps I'll cure cancer instead, or something else that's easy in the evenings. |
| 10:12 | <edeca> | Well I hate things being duplicated. I don't have enough time in my life for that ;) |
| 10:14 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r14773 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp win32.cpp): -Fix-ish[FS#2469]: attach a signal handler during loading savegames to catch any crashes due to broken savegames/missing NewGRFs and tell the user about that instead of "just" crashing without explanation. |
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| 10:18 | <edeca> | Rubidium: How do the developers divide tasks for the core stuff? |
| 10:18 | <+glx> | we don't |
| 10:19 | * | yorick is back |
| 10:20 | <@Rubidium> | someone does the core stuff and the others fix whatever breaks for their compiler ;) |
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| 10:21 | <edeca> | yorick: Welcome back |
| 10:21 | * | yorick barks |
| 10:21 | <edeca> | Heh. Obedient too. |
| 10:22 | <edeca> | yorick: We *really* need to avoid duplication :) |
| 10:22 | <yorick> | hg repo? |
| 10:22 | <edeca> | Yeah. Sensible. |
| 10:22 | <edeca> | I've never used hg, can't be hard though |
| 10:22 | <edeca> | I can host if you need? |
| 10:23 | <yorick> | ok... |
| 10:23 | <edeca> | I'll set that up tonight too then. |
| 10:23 | <edeca> | How does it work with syncing to trunk? |
| 10:23 | <edeca> | i.e. can you sync to trunk and keep local patches easil |
| 10:24 | <yorick> | yes, you can just use diff |
| 10:24 | <yorick> | hg pull http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg && hg merge && fix_conflicts_manually && hg commit && hg push hgrepo |
| 10:26 | -!- | dark [~dark@124.161.79.26] has joined #openttd |
| 10:26 | <edeca> | Cool. |
| 10:26 | <edeca> | I'll setup an hg server later |
| 10:26 | <dark> | hi,all |
| 10:27 | <dark> | I have a problem |
| 10:27 | <yorick> | hi dark, tell us |
| 10:28 | * | Rubidium has a problem too |
| 10:29 | -!- | Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d85ddad.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd |
| 10:29 | <Roujin> | cheers |
| 10:29 | <Roujin> | just got a weird server message... |
| 10:30 | <yorick> | @openttd commit 14771 |
| 10:30 | <@DorpsGek> | yorick: Commit by rubidium :: r14771 trunk/src/network/network.cpp (2008-12-29 21:41:20 UTC) |
| 10:30 | <@DorpsGek> | yorick: -Fix (r14764): resolving of error types to error messages kinda failed :( |
| 10:30 | <yorick> | that one? |
| 10:30 | -!- | Wolle [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0D08E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 10:30 | <Roujin> | xyz has left the game(Not enough cash - requires GBP890) |
| 10:30 | <yorick> | yeah, fixed by 14771, I believe |
| 10:30 | <+glx> | that's it :) |
| 10:30 | <@Rubidium> | yes... you have to pay to play OpenTTD ;) |
| 10:30 | <Roujin> | :D |
| 10:31 | <@Rubidium> | though only OpenTTD money is accepted |
| 10:34 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r14774 /trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp: -Change: show which tile caused the "error" when leveling land like raising and lowering does and use the same sound. |
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| 10:35 | <+glx> | indeed he have a connection problem |
| 10:36 | <yorick> | :p |
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| 10:37 | <yorick> | mmm, signals could be stored more efficiently |
| 10:38 | <edeca> | yorick: What do you suggest |
| 10:38 | <yorick> | there can only be signals on the direction of the track |
| 10:39 | <yorick> | then you just have to store if there are 0, 1 or 2 signals on a tile |
| 10:41 | <Roujin> | what about diagonal tracks? |
| 10:41 | <yorick> | 2 signals? |
| 10:41 | <Roujin> | ah you mean that with 2 signals |
| 10:42 | <yorick> | ys |
| 10:42 | <Roujin> | thought you mean one sided/ two sided ones |
| 10:42 | <Roujin> | ok, then how do you differ between the two possible locations for one signal? |
| 10:42 | <yorick> | predefined |
| 10:43 | <yorick> | oh |
| 10:43 | <yorick> | that |
| 10:43 | <yorick> | mmm |
| 10:43 | <yorick> | 10 = signal at left/top, 01 = signal at right/bottom, 00 = no signal, 11 = signals everywhere |
| 10:44 | <yorick> | :) |
| 10:44 | <Roujin> | and how is it stored currently? |
| 10:44 | <yorick> | on the copy paste array |
| 10:44 | <yorick> | 5 bits used for every trackbit |
| 10:45 | <yorick> | I think it's already stored like that on the map array |
| 10:46 | <edeca> | Well keeping the template simple is the best. lz will handle size surely? |
| 10:46 | -!- | Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d85a4c2.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd |
| 10:46 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ |
| 10:46 | <yorick> | zlib! |
| 10:46 | <edeca> | Except for large memory usage :( |
| 10:46 | <edeca> | zlib, whatever ;) |
| 10:46 | <@Celestar> | \o |
| 10:46 | <edeca> | I haven't looked at it yet |
| 10:46 | <+glx> | petern: look who arrived :) |
| 10:46 | <@Celestar> | oh uh |
| 10:46 | * | Celestar hides behind a barrell |
| 10:47 | <+glx> | lol |
| 10:47 | * | yorick steps aside |
| 10:47 | * | yorick kicks the barrel |
| 10:48 | <petern> | Celestar! |
| 10:48 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: you could better hide in a cubicle; then you can at least do some useful work ;) |
| 10:48 | <petern> | heh, the old model also doubled airdrag in tunnels |
| 10:49 | <+glx> | petern: probably because train acts like a piston |
| 10:49 | <@Celestar> | I've been a tad busy with family life in the past few days. |
| 10:49 | <edeca> | petern: Are you completely rewriting it? |
| 10:49 | <@Celestar> | that will change from Friday on :P |
| 10:49 | <yorick> | you'll kill your family? |
| 10:50 | * | Celestar pokes yorick with a blunt spoon |
| 10:50 | <yorick> | aw |
| 10:50 | <@Celestar> | petern: what can I do for you? (= |
| 10:51 | <+glx> | search hard in your memory :) |
| 10:51 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: take a look at http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=&project=1&type[]=1&reported[]=38&status[]=open ? |
| 10:51 | <@Celestar> | looking |
| 10:51 | <+glx> | http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/ce0a75460808 <-- some magic values are too magic |
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| 10:52 | <@Celestar> | Rubidium: look taken, bugs still there :P |
| 10:52 | <@Celestar> | Rubidium: more work required :P |
| 10:52 | <@Celestar> | petern: go ahead |
| 10:53 | <@Celestar> | I remember those numbers (= |
| 10:53 | <@Celestar> | Rubidium: I'll fix them after New Year's eve I guess |
| 10:54 | <darks> | BUT who knows how to solve the non-latin input problem? |
| 10:54 | <@Rubidium> | what problem? |
| 10:55 | <+glx> | what OS? |
| 10:55 | <petern> | you remember them? |
| 10:55 | <petern> | what do they mean! |
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| 10:55 | <darks> | MAC |
| 10:55 | <+glx> | what version ? |
| 10:55 | <@Rubidium> | last thing you said was "i have a problem" |
| 10:55 | <darks> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41213&sid=510756a33ce1a6f0864a15383b3e5424 |
| 10:55 | <@Rubidium> | I'd say: blame Bjarni for not implementing it ;) |
| 10:56 | <+glx> | works for me (win32 version) :) |
| 10:56 | <darks> | god....the php IRC is very easy to disconnect |
| 10:56 | <@Celestar> | if (need_scapegoat) sql_call("SELECT nickname FROM users WHERE nickname = 'Bjarni'"); |
| 10:56 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: that's totally wrong |
| 10:57 | <darks> | glx: you can type non-latin words just like chinese in OTTD? |
| 10:57 | <+glx> | yes |
| 10:57 | <@Celestar> | Rubidium: why? |
| 10:57 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: SELECT person FROM persons AS p WHERE broken_thing IN (SELECT thing FROM things WHERE developed_by_id = p.id) |
| 10:58 | <darks> | glx: without any change the src? |
| 10:58 | <+glx> | yes |
| 10:58 | <+glx> | I just need to select the right keyboard layout |
| 10:58 | <@Celestar> | Rubidium: what about non-existing things? |
| 10:58 | <darks> | glx: i have nothing to say about it... |
| 10:58 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: is the OSX port non-existing? |
| 10:58 | <@Celestar> | heh. |
| 10:58 | <darks> | glx: how to select the keyboard layout? |
| 10:58 | <@Celestar> | Rubidium: I think it is in a quantum state |
| 10:59 | <@Rubidium> | darks: the problem is that you use a different OS than glx uses. For glx' OS is works, for your OS nobody has been bothered to implement it |
| 10:59 | <+glx> | on windows I click on the little thing in taskbar |
| 11:00 | <@Rubidium> | and the major problem with your OS is that there are very few people that can implement stuff for it |
| 11:00 | <darks> | Rubidium: is there anyone using linux and getting the same problem for me? |
| 11:00 | <@Rubidium> | the person who did make the OSX port has not been working on the port for many many months and he didn't have much time beyond fixing some bugs |
| 11:00 | <+glx> | or when something works then Apple decides to break it in next release |
| 11:00 | <@Celestar> | darks: I'm on linux. what's the problem? |
| 11:01 | <darks> | Rubidium: maybe |
| 11:01 | <darks> | Celestar: can you type non-latin words in the edit box |
| 11:02 | <darks> | Celestar: when you edit the name of your company or the groups. |
| 11:02 | <@Celestar> | darks: I'll test in a few minutes. |
| 11:02 | <@Rubidium> | darks: doesn't matter whether it works in Linux, because Linux is not OSX |
| 11:03 | <@Celestar> | I've an OpenGL app running and AMD's driver doesn't manage to display an SDL window when an OpenGL window is running |
| 11:03 | <darks> | glx: maybe. but if the linux users can work, OSX users may work too |
| 11:03 | <@Rubidium> | especially because OSX port doesn't use the same APIs to communicate with the OS as the Linux port does |
| 11:04 | <darks> | Rubidium: no,it's very similar. |
| 11:04 | <+glx> | it's not |
| 11:04 | <@Rubidium> | darks: it is not |
| 11:04 | <+glx> | at least for all GUI related stuff |
| 11:04 | <@Celestar> | it's not _very_ similar |
| 11:04 | <@Celestar> | and the GUI is all different |
| 11:05 | <@Celestar> | heh @ glx |
| 11:05 | <darks> | I know the GUI is all different,but maybe on this game, it's similar. |
| 11:05 | <+glx> | it looks the same |
| 11:05 | <@Celestar> | ? |
| 11:05 | <@Celestar> | the not the GUI, the GUI API. |
| 11:06 | <@Celestar> | if you prefer (= |
| 11:06 | <@Rubidium> | the backend talking to the OS for the OSX port is vastly different than the backend used for the Linux port which is vastly different than the backend used for the Windows port |
| 11:06 | <@Rubidium> | as the backend handles all the input and output the similarity of the backend determines whether it working in one of the backends means whether it works in another |
| 11:07 | <@Celestar> | I'm out a bit |
| 11:07 | <@Celestar> | cu :D |
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| 11:07 | <darks> | in Linux, i use fcitx to type chinese. in OS, i use fcit to type chinese. fcit is just like a copy to OS. the auther said he did many copy from fcitx |
| 11:08 | <darks> | Rubidium: maybe |
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| 11:12 | * | darks trying to ./configure && make |
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| 11:49 | <Swallow> | Powered wagons have 0 tractive effort. Is this intentional? |
| 11:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | only when the newgrf says so |
| 11:51 | <Swallow> | In the part of TrainPowerChanged that handles powered wagons, only power and no TE iis added |
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| 11:59 | -!- | insulfrog [~trainslov@92.20.22.44] has joined #openttd |
| 11:59 | <insulfrog> | hi all |
| 11:59 | <yorick> | hi |
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| 12:04 | <petern> | Eddi|zuHause, help |
| 12:04 | <petern> | F=ma, so a=F/m, right? |
| 12:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes |
| 12:05 | <petern> | m is in kg, right? |
| 12:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes |
| 12:05 | <petern> | right |
| 12:05 | <petern> | we do it in tons |
| 12:05 | <petern> | no wonder it's all shite :p |
| 12:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | then the factor is 1000 ;) |
| 12:05 | <petern> | right |
| 12:06 | <petern> | ah well |
| 12:06 | <petern> | the resultant units don't mean anything anyway |
| 12:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you should definitely put the units in the comment |
| 12:06 | <petern> | well |
| 12:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | as in: a = F/m; // m/s = kN / t |
| 12:07 | <petern> | in real life, yes |
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| 12:07 | <petern> | original acceleration model is |
| 12:07 | <petern> | acceleration=hp/tons*4 |
| 12:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | err... but hp is not a force |
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| 12:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | F = P/v ... or so |
| 12:11 | <petern> | yes i know |
| 12:11 | <petern> | let's pretend the original acceleration model assumes velocity is always 1 |
| 12:12 | <petern> | then F == P |
| 12:12 | <petern> | but the units... :o |
| 12:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that's what the 4 is for ;) |
| 12:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hp to kN is something like 3/4? [very roughly rounded] |
| 12:15 | <petern> | :o |
| 12:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 4/3? |
| 12:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | whatever |
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| 12:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 1 PS = 736 W |
| 12:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hm, starting in 2010, it is not allowed to use horse power anymore |
| 12:21 | <yorick> | 1 horsepower = 745.699872 watts, according to google |
| 12:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | british horses might be slightly more powerful than german ones ;) |
| 12:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or maybe those are american horses |
| 12:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "eine Pferdestärke entspricht 0,73549875 kW" <- says wikipedia |
| 12:23 | <yorick> | mechanical horsepower is 745.... watts, metric horsepower is 735.... |
| 12:23 | <yorick> | and electrical horsepower is 746 W |
| 12:23 | <yorick> | :p |
| 12:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "1 PS ist in DIN 66036 (Deutsches Institut für Normung) definiert als die Leistung, die erbracht werden muss, um einen Körper der Masse m = 75 kg entgegen dem Schwerkraftfeld der Erde (bei Erdbeschleunigung 9,80665 m/s²) mit einer Geschwindigkeit von 1 m/s zu bewegen[4]." |
| 12:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 1 PS = 75 kpm/s = 735,49875 W |
| 12:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, i do see how it could be called "metric" horsepower ;) |
| 12:25 | <yorick> | PS != hp |
| 12:25 | <yorick> | well, not the generic hp |
| 12:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "PS" is the german translation of "hp" |
| 12:25 | * | yorick is gone |
| 12:26 | <yorick> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower |
| 12:26 | <petern> | it's a little different |
| 12:26 | <petern> | but mostly the same |
| 12:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the long definititon translates rougly to "transport 75km against earth gravity (9,81m/s^2) at 1m/s |
| 12:28 | <+tokai> | kilogramm not kilometer ;) |
| 12:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | err, yes |
| 12:28 | * | tokai wonders why it is only 75 kg... |
| 12:29 | * | tokai thought horses would be a bit heavier than that |
| 12:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | not the weight of the horse |
| 12:29 | <Prof_Frink> | ...and how much power does an actual horse produce? |
| 12:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | a horse dragging a 75kg object |
| 12:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "Die Leistung eines Pferdes kann je nach Rasse, Trainingszustand oder augenblicklicher Anstrengung erheblich abweichen: ein Pferd etwa beim Galopp oder beim Springreiten kann kurzfristig deutlich mehr, nämlich über 20 PS leisten, während es im Tagesdurchschnitt etwa 1 PS leistet[3]." |
| 12:31 | <+tokai> | A horse dragging 75 kg makes not much sense when you can sit *on* the horse :) Getting dragged might actually hurt a little. |
| 12:31 | <Prof_Frink> | tokai: Let me show you my new invention. I call it the "cart". |
| 12:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but sitting on the horse makes it difficult to measure against earth gravity |
| 12:32 | <+tokai> | Prof_Frink: but you and a cart might weight more than 75kg :) |
| 12:33 | * | tokai at least weights around 75kg himself already. |
| 12:33 | <Prof_Frink> | tokai: carbon fibre. |
| 12:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 1 bhp ["brake horse power"] = 1,014 DIN-PS = 745,7 W |
| 12:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | = 33 000 lbf.·ft./min = 550 lbf.·ft./s |
| 12:36 | <petern> | heh |
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| 12:37 | <petern> | interesting |
| 12:37 | <petern> | using kg now |
| 12:37 | <petern> | multiplied the acceleration by an arbitrary magic number |
| 12:37 | <petern> | train does not get up to 20/30mph instantly |
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| 12:52 | <Swallow> | petern: If you're working on train physics, you might want to look at http://paste.openttd.org/178329 |
| 12:52 | <Swallow> | It adds TE for powered wagons (2cc set for example) |
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| 13:24 | <petern> | hm |
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| 13:29 | <petern> | okay |
| 13:29 | <petern> | working on realistic acceleration is pointless |
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| 13:32 | <petern> | kudr's was right |
| 13:32 | <petern> | rolling resistance is nothing |
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| 13:39 | <@Rubidium> | but... but... then it's not "realistic acceleration" anymore |
| 13:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i wanted to mention that earlier ;) |
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| 13:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | air drag is the important part for high speed, tractive effort for low speed, and power for inclines |
| 13:42 | <petern> | yes |
| 13:42 | <petern> | in our code, rolling resistance is high |
| 13:42 | <petern> | or something |
| 13:42 | <petern> | i dunno |
| 13:42 | <petern> | problem is it is there but always rounds down to 0 |
| 13:42 | <petern> | so |
| 13:43 | <petern> | i'm now experimenting changing subspeed to be 16 instead of 8 bits |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: translators * r14775 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-12-30 18:44:32 |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 10 fixed, 2 changed by khaloofah (12) |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: croatian - 14 fixed, 63 changed by tperic (77) |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: indonesian - 13 fixed by rindu (13) |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 2 fixed by zibiam (2) |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: romanian - 13 fixed by kkmic (13) |
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| 13:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | really, i'd just cut roll resistance |
| 13:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | useless calculation work |
| 13:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that's why they are using wheels, because it has practically no effect |
| 13:59 | <+tokai> | Would you actually be able to see the difference in the game if a train moves like 0.00002 pixel slower or faster? :) |
| 14:00 | <George> | I had a new hardware instalation and was not logging the channel. Was there any result i discussion about house population CB? |
| 14:01 | <petern> | none |
| 14:02 | -!- | evandar [~evandar@213.168.176.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 14:02 | <George> | pity :( |
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| 14:04 | <petern> | tokai, no, but if it calls itself realistic... ;) |
| 14:04 | <petern> | Maybe I should do it as a new acceleration model |
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| 14:04 | <petern> | Call it "DontLookBelugasItsRealisticAcceleration" |
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| 14:05 | <Nite_Owl> | Hello all |
| 14:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | maybe it should be a difficulty option "Acceleration Model: {simple, complex}" |
| 14:07 | <Swallow> | Is train property 20 (coefficient of air drag) planned to be implemented at some point? |
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| 14:14 | <petern> | Eddi|zuHause, it's not more complex, it just behaves differently. people don't like change, see. |
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| 14:26 | <petern> | hmm |
| 14:29 | <petern> | SmatZ, r14742 broke it |
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| 14:37 | -!- | OsteHovel^EEE [~OsteHovel@062016205204.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #openttd |
| 14:37 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | Hi all |
| 14:37 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | How to i disable that old train engines dosent disapear after a period? |
| 14:37 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | *do disapair |
| 14:37 | -!- | |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] |
| 14:37 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | i want to play with all trains all the time... |
| 14:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | in the advanced/patch settings |
| 14:39 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | (/me using the SVN) |
| 14:39 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | so its advanced settings |
| 14:39 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | where in the settings are the setting about that? |
| 14:39 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | i cant find it.... |
| 14:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, there's the options "vehicles never expire" |
| 14:40 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | ooo |
| 14:40 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | i found it |
| 14:40 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | thanks |
| 14:40 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | i love you |
| 14:41 | <Sacro> | "Missing man's car is found by bridge" |
| 14:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | sounds like a german wrote that :p |
| 14:43 | <Sacro> | oh? |
| 14:43 | <Sacro> | they really should use "next to" rather than "by" |
| 14:43 | <Sacro> | or "underneath" |
| 14:43 | <Prof_Frink> | When civ eng meets AI, we're all doomed. |
| 14:43 | <Sacro> | Prof_Frink: or located |
| 14:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | german preposition "bei" means "next to" |
| 14:44 | <Sacro> | Eddi|zuHause: ah yes |
| 14:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | very common mistake of germans |
| 14:44 | <Sacro> | germans often make mistakes... |
| 14:45 | <Prof_Frink> | #1 being "Being German" |
| 14:46 | <Sacro> | "eating bratwurst"? |
| 14:46 | <Prof_Frink> | "invading russia in the winter" |
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| 14:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the french are good at that, too ;) |
| 14:47 | <Sacro> | "invading poland when others are watching" |
| 14:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you british guys are useless as soon as you come out of the water... that's why you never even went close to russia |
| 14:49 | <Sacro> | ah yes, there speaks an argie |
| 14:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i hate the max loan... you can't start out with a double track line between two cities |
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| 14:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Sacro: they attacked us first, we only shot back... :p |
| 14:50 | <Prof_Frink> | What? You started it! |
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| 14:51 | <ccfreak2k> | They say the same thing about Han/ |
| 14:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | „Polen hat heute nacht zum erstenmal auf unserem eigenen Territorium auch mit bereits regulären Soldaten geschossen. Seit 5.45 Uhr wird jetzt zurückgeschossen! Und von jetzt ab wird Bombe mit Bombe vergolten![30]“ |
| 14:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Zitiert nach Adolf Hitler: Rede vor dem Reichstag, 1. September 1939; |
| 14:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | http://www.wdr.de/themen/_config_/bin/mkram.jhtml/mk.ram?rtsp://ras01.wdr.de/online/2005/kultur/rundfunk/polen.rm |
| 14:55 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | I have played from 1920 to 2066 and i have had all the trains and now i have lost most of them... then with help of mr. Eddi|zuHause in here, i have activated the vichles dont expire.. but how do i get all the old vicles back? |
| 14:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | OsteHovel^EEE: go to the console, and type "resetengines" |
| 14:55 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | Ok |
| 14:55 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | i done that now!!! And it worked! |
| 14:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Prof_Frink: if mister Hitler said it, it must be true! |
| 14:56 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | What shoud i have dont widout you mr. Eddi|zuHause |
| 14:56 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | *done |
| 14:57 | <Prof_Frink> | Eddi|zuHause: Do you not know of Fawlty Towers? |
| 14:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | err... what? |
| 14:57 | <Prof_Frink> | Don't mention the war! |
| 14:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | err... what? |
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| 14:58 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | is it posible to exstract an GRF file and change that a train is a railway train and not monolev? (its a single train in a single grf) |
| 14:58 | <Nicky-NL> | hello |
| 14:59 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | or is that very hard todo? |
| 14:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | OsteHovel^EEE: just get grfcodec |
| 14:59 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | ok |
| 14:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and read the grf specs about action0 |
| 14:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | then look for the vehicle ID in question |
| 15:00 | <Nicky-NL> | i am reading an tutorial for making your own grf but the grfcodec does't wanna come up. it goes direct away, someone knows what i must do? :P |
| 15:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Nicky-NL: grfcodec is a console application |
| 15:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you need to start it from the command line with parameters |
| 15:00 | <Prof_Frink> | Eddi|zuHause: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Germans |
| 15:00 | <Nicky-NL> | start and then run? |
| 15:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no, console applications do not "run", you start them, they immediately do something, and then end |
| 15:02 | <mincepie> | Eddi|zuHause: he may be referring to the Windows start menu and the Run command |
| 15:02 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | and then write CMD |
| 15:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | oh.. |
| 15:02 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | then you get console |
| 15:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, then start -> run -> cmd |
| 15:03 | <Nicky-NL> | ok and then where it should take place? |
| 15:03 | <mincepie> | Prof_Frink: that episode is interesting, according to Cleese, because it contains so little Germans and should really be called The Fire Drill |
| 15:03 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i am totally out of the windows terminology... plus i have never used windows in english |
| 15:03 | <mincepie> | ah |
| 15:03 | <OsteHovel^EEE> | i like linux much better.... |
| 15:03 | <Nicky-NL> | the tutorial says i must do this: grfcodec -e mytrain.grf |
| 15:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Nicky-NL: when you are in cmd, you go to the directory where your grf files are |
| 15:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | cd C:\place\where\stuff\is |
| 15:04 | <Nicky-NL> | ah i gonna try something :) |
| 15:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so you are one level above the "sprites" directory |
| 15:04 | <Prof_Frink> | Hmm, I think I ate too much over christmas. I'm hallucinating mince pies on irc. |
| 15:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "dir sprites" should say something like: |
| 15:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | mygrf.nfo |
| 15:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | mygrf.pcx |
| 15:05 | * | mincepie dances in confusing pattern around Prof_Frink |
| 15:05 | * | Prof_Frink attempts to eat mincepie |
| 15:05 | <mincepie> | Prof_Frink: don't worry, you're among only a very few here who even know what a mince pie is... |
| 15:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | then type "grfcodec -e mygrf.grf" |
| 15:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Prof_Frink: i don't think i have ever seen that show |
| 15:06 | <mincepie> | Eddi|zuHause: you've never seen Fawlty Towers? |
| 15:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that is exactly what i said, yes. |
| 15:07 | <mincepie> | good grief |
| 15:07 | <Nicky-NL> | thx i dont work so much whit that run program :p |
| 15:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "Das Fernsehen der DDR strahlte Mai–Juli 1987 zehn Episoden (1–5 und 7–11) aus." <- they missed out episode 6 for some reason :p |
| 15:09 | <Nicky-NL> | lol mine firewall says: dedected possible malware behavior in the place where grfcodec is |
| 15:10 | <mincepie> | Eddi|zuHause: likely the goose-stepping |
| 15:10 | <Nicky-NL> | now i got an NEW-file :s |
| 15:10 | <Nicky-NL> | 0 kb |
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| 15:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Nicky-NL: then it did not find the .nfo file |
| 15:13 | <Nicky-NL> | ah i did something wrong? |
| 15:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | where is your .nfo file? |
| 15:14 | <+glx> | it must be in sprites |
| 15:14 | <Nicky-NL> | i have did in in an sperate map |
| 15:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if it is in the same directory as you run grfcodec, you can try "grfcodec -e mygrf.grf ." |
| 15:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the "." is important there |
| 15:18 | <Nicky-NL> | again an new file |
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| 15:19 | <+glx> | what does it say? |
| 15:20 | <+glx> | grfcodec is usually verbose |
| 15:20 | <Nicky-NL> | it says nothing |
| 15:21 | <Nicky-NL> | i am trying the tutorial from http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=NFOFoundations |
| 15:21 | <@Belugas> | a mince pie a not a fat pie |
| 15:22 | <mincepie> | Belugas: one of the main ingredients in the traditional recipe is beef suet |
| 15:22 | <Prof_Frink> | A mince pie isn't a pie for long if I'm around. |
| 15:22 | * | mincepie concurs wholeheartedly and high-fives Prof_Frink |
| 15:23 | <@Belugas> | therefor, Prof_Frink is not mince anymore |
| 15:23 | <@Belugas> | p.s.-> mince in french is thin in english |
| 15:23 | <@Belugas> | buwhahaha! |
| 15:24 | <mincepie> | this is perhaps a gross pie then ¬.¬ |
| 15:28 | <Nicky-NL> | is there not an simply program for making grf then? |
| 15:28 | <Nicky-NL> | so easy as paint :P |
| 15:28 | <petern> | SmatZ: "Remember that map automitically sorts its elements according to the key, i.e. the first element." |
| 15:28 | <petern> | SmatZ: so that's why it doesn't work :o |
| 15:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | mincepie: about as gross as cooked wild pig in mince sauce? |
| 15:29 | <Sacro> | mince sauce? |
| 15:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "the poor pig" |
| 15:29 | <Nicky-NL> | well i gonna try tommorow cya :s |
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| 15:30 | <@Belugas> | ho.. a live petern :) |
| 15:30 | <petern> | hello Belugas |
| 15:30 | <mincepie> | mince sauce? ¬.¬ |
| 15:30 | <petern> | @seen smatz |
| 15:30 | <@DorpsGek> | petern: smatz was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 22 hours, 13 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <SmatZ> 9-) |
| 15:30 | <petern> | ah |
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| 15:33 | <@Belugas> | wroking from work, petern? |
| 15:34 | <@Belugas> | hello indeed, by the way... |
| 15:34 | <petern> | working from home |
| 15:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Sacro/mincepie, might be a mistranslation of mine, but it's a line from "Asterix in Britain" |
| 15:35 | <@Belugas> | working for work, but from home, on my side. a bit confusing :) |
| 15:35 | <Prof_Frink> | Pig should be with apple sauce. Lamb with mince and beef with horseradish. And yorksher pud. |
| 15:35 | <Prof_Frink> | mince? mint! |
| 15:35 | <mincepie> | and pork with cranberry |
| 15:35 | * | Prof_Frink 's brains have turned to mince. |
| 15:35 | <mincepie> | always with yorkshire pudding... |
| 15:36 | <mincepie> | yorkshire puddings are brilliant |
| 15:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, it's a french movie, after all ;) |
| 15:36 | <mincepie> | true |
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| 15:37 | <mincepie> | it's possible that yorkshire puddings hadn't been invented in the time the film was set :P |
| 15:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that never stopped the asterix writers :p |
| 15:37 | <mincepie> | true, true |
| 15:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | big ben and the tower bridge were not "invented" back then, either |
| 15:38 | <mincepie> | well, actually, there was a bridge there as far back as 900 BC |
| 15:38 | <Sacro> | mmmmm, yorkshire pudd |
| 15:38 | * | mincepie nods |
| 15:40 | <@Belugas> | hu??? you make pudding out of yorkshire??? poor little doggy :( |
| 15:40 | <mincepie> | ¬.¬ |
| 15:40 | <Prof_Frink> | Damn terrierists. |
| 15:40 | * | mincepie screams in pain |
| 15:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hm, anyone knows a program where i can save an rtsp stream to disk? |
| 15:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | wget refuses the protocol |
| 15:44 | <Prof_Frink> | mplayer -dumpstream |
| 15:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "Cannot dump this stream - no file descriptor available." |
| 15:47 | <Prof_Frink> | You need a deep incantation to get mplayer to work. |
| 15:48 | <petern> | uh huh |
| 15:50 | <mincepie> | and perhaps the sacrifice of a small rodent |
| 15:50 | -!- | Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 15:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Error: Client error. Reply was: 454 Session Not Found |
| 15:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | when i just type "mplayer <url>" |
| 15:51 | <edeca> | Oh bugger, where's the log again? |
| 15:51 | <petern> | /var/log/syslog |
| 15:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ~/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs |
| 15:52 | <edeca> | petern: Oh yes, of course! |
| 15:52 | <Prof_Frink> | ~/irclogs |
| 15:53 | <edeca> | Where's the online, browsable version of the IRC logs for this channel from the year of our Lord 2008? |
| 15:53 | <petern> | pom te pom: http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/fixforr14742.diff |
| 15:53 | <Prof_Frink> | Or possibly fish://192.168.0.2/home/alan/irclogs |
| 15:53 | <petern> | silly people breaking that feature yet again |
| 15:53 | <petern> | usually it was bjarni, though |
| 15:54 | <Prof_Frink> | What size are your pair? |
| 15:55 | <edeca> | 34CC |
| 15:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | edeca: there are at least two |
| 15:56 | <edeca> | Eddi|zuHause: I've found the URL I was after now, cheers |
| 15:56 | <edeca> | It's expired though and yorick isn't here, so I wont be doing much more tonight. Gr. |
| 15:56 | <Prof_Frink> | Alas. |
| 15:56 | <+glx> | Eddi|zuHause: try vlc (it supports rtsp) |
| 15:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | glx: well, kaffeine can play the stream |
| 15:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but i want to save it... |
| 15:56 | <edeca> | vlc can save too |
| 15:57 | <+glx> | vlc can record it for sure |
| 15:57 | <edeca> | You just select the output plugin |
| 15:57 | <+glx> | but I don't know the exact command line (I use front end to manage that) |
| 15:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 21:57:35: input_rip: Rippen/Zwischenspeichern dieser Quelle nicht erlaubt! |
| 15:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hm... |
| 15:58 | -!- | Sacro [~benwoodw@80.247.163.108] has quit [Quit: leaving] |
| 15:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i guess they do not want that... |
| 15:58 | <Prof_Frink> | Well, there's your problem. You need to erlaubt your Zwischenspeichern. |
| 15:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | which is weird, because the recording is clearly more than 50 years old, so not subject to copyright |
| 15:59 | <Prof_Frink> | Eddi|zuHause: What's the URL? |
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| 16:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | rtsp://ras01.wdr.de/online/2005/kultur/rundfunk/polen.rm |
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| 16:04 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14776 /trunk/src/ (core/smallmap_type.hpp newgrf_engine.cpp): -Fix (r14742): ListPositionMap relied on std::map having sorted the map, which is now done by a manual key sorter on SmallMap. This fixes engine ID list sorting. |
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| 16:05 | <petern> | only a month that time |
| 16:06 | <Prof_Frink> | Eddi|zuHause: `mplayer -dumpfile polen.rm -dumpstream rtsp://ras01.wdr.de/online/2005/kultur/rundfunk/polen.rm` seemed to work, but I can't get the (96kB) file to play |
| 16:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | who sorts engine lists anyway? |
| 16:08 | <petern> | nobody |
| 16:09 | <petern> | that's the default sorting |
| 16:09 | <petern> | haha |
| 16:09 | <petern> | my 260hp/35kN railcar actually gets stuck going up hill |
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| 16:10 | <Sacro> | petern: newphysics? |
| 16:11 | <petern> | tweaked magic values |
| 16:12 | <petern> | yarr, it manages it with a shunter bolted on |
| 16:12 | <petern> | oh, it has 8 carriages attached, which is a bit silly |
| 16:12 | <petern> | it's fine by itself :) |
| 16:13 | <petern> | could do with better brakes |
| 16:13 | <petern> | silly engine power = braking shit |
| 16:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the DBSetXL's railcar (VT 95?) does not reach its max speed with a trailing car attached |
| 16:14 | <petern> | in trunk? |
| 16:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | in trunk, yes |
| 16:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | partially because the weight of the wagon is not changed |
| 16:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the railcar itself weighs like 18t, but the trailer weighs 40t |
| 16:16 | <petern> | the VT95? |
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| 16:17 | <petern> | hmm, it reached it |
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| 16:18 | <petern> | hehe, ice3 bug :) |
| 16:19 | <petern> | 14MW, 2000kN max TE |
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| 16:20 | <petern> | hmm, it can't reach max speed :/ |
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| 16:23 | <petern> | haha |
| 16:23 | <petern> | MB's ICE3 is on crack |
| 16:23 | <petern> | 725t, 14000kW, 2000kN... |
| 16:23 | <petern> | specs are 435t, 8000kW, 300kN |
| 16:25 | <Sacro> | rather than tweak ttdpatch to work correctly... |
| 16:25 | <Prof_Frink> | <clarkson>POWER!</clarkson> |
| 16:25 | <@Rubidium> | but... petern's specs do not comply with MB's reality |
| 16:25 | <edeca> | Just let May drive it, wont go above 45mph |
| 16:25 | <Prof_Frink> | edeca: One word: Veyron. |
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| 16:26 | <mincepie> | awful machine |
| 16:26 | <@Rubidium> | petern: the wiki says 8000 kW per engine, maybe it has more than one engine? |
| 16:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | petern: the VT 95 itself can reach max speed, but if you attach a passenger wagon to it, it doesn't |
| 16:26 | <edeca> | Like 1.8 engines to make 14000? :) |
| 16:27 | <petern> | 500kW per engine, 4 engines per powered carriage, 4 powered carriages |
| 16:27 | <@Rubidium> | and 4300 when on DC instead of AC |
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| 16:28 | <petern> | Eddi|zuHause, which one is the E92? |
| 16:28 | <petern> | BR194? |
| 16:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | E94 == BR 194, yes |
| 16:29 | <petern> | hm |
| 16:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | easily the most beautiful engine in the set ;) |
| 16:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (in green livery) |
| 16:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if only the passenger wagons would be the same length... |
| 16:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (2 articulated parts) |
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| 16:31 | <petern> | hmm, that overflows somewhat :o |
| 16:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | as for the naming scheme, the letters got turned into numbers with introduction of computers in the late '60s, E->1, V->2 [west germany], E->2, V->1 [east germany], |
| 16:33 | <Eddi|zuHause> | with some more or less regular transformation of the rest of the numbers. i.e the V200 got numbered 220 and the V160 to 216 [last digit cut] |
| 16:33 | <Eddi|zuHause> | E10 got 110 |
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| 16:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that was before computers learned to handle letters ;) |
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| 16:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the E94 should be able to handle something like 2000t on flat land, and 500t on slopes |
| 16:37 | <zircu> | dihedral: how cute am i? :) |
| 16:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | where "slopes" are lines like the Brennerbahn and the Frankenwaldbahn |
| 16:41 | <petern> | i need to calculate the best magic number |
| 16:41 | <petern> | for converting m/s into game-world usable units |
| 16:41 | <@Rubidium> | 42 |
| 16:41 | <petern> | er, m/s/s |
| 16:43 | <Prof_Frink> | ms**-2 |
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| 17:04 | <Prof_Frink> | Well, that killed the convo pretty well, eh? |
| 17:07 | <petern> | surely |
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| 17:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | nobody does that as well as you do |
| 17:17 | <mincepie> | *nod* |
| 17:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | http://www.klauserbeck.de/Strecken1/WerdauMehltheuer/Triebes1005-03k.jpg <- we totally need combo signals like these... |
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| 17:18 | <mincepie> | oh, you're thinking of m·s⁻² |
| 17:19 | <mincepie> | Eddi|zuHause: you implement 'em and I'll use 'em :P |
| 17:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | mincepie: well, i had a preliminary case study patch with michi_cc for advance signals. problem was that combo signals need more than 2 states |
| 17:21 | <mincepie> | ...ah |
| 17:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | which is not directly a problem, because path signals have only 1 direction, there are 2 bits available |
| 17:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but the map accessor would need to do different things depending if it's a block signal or a path signal |
| 17:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | which was a too complex task for me to tackle back then |
| 17:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and that did not even consider the fact that 3 graphical states would be necessary |
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| 17:24 | <@Rubidium> | petern: what about 584 as magic number? (number of real world seconds per TrainLocoHandler) |
| 17:24 | * | Rubidium got no idea in what kind of range the magic number should be |
| 17:25 | <@Rubidium> | = 24 * 3600 / 74 / 2 (TrainLocoHandler gets called twice a tick) |
| 17:28 | <petern> | hmm |
| 17:28 | <petern> | has to be larger than that |
| 17:28 | <@Rubidium> | by how much? |
| 17:29 | <@Rubidium> | factor 2? |
| 17:29 | <@Rubidium> | 1.6^2 ? |
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| 17:34 | <petern> | hmm, no, cos i changed the subspeed |
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| 18:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:ICE_Jena_Paradies.JPG&filetimestamp=20070331200848 <- an ICE in double traction is insanely long... the TTD representation cannot cope with that |
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| 19:33 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| 19:44 | <+tokai> | Eddi|zuHause: hmm.. a picture from my town ;) |
| 19:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | tokai: yes, i know ;) |
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| 19:53 | <xahodo> | Hello |
| 19:54 | <xahodo> | I've bumped in a problem: a savegame complains about missing grf's... and then doesn't tell me which grf it misses. :( |
| 19:56 | <xahodo> | Catch is: I've got all the newgrf's needed. |
| 19:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | when you load the game, you can open the newgrf setting window |
| 19:57 | <xahodo> | errr... load game -> crash |
| 19:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it will show green icons for correct grfs, yellow icons for grfs of different version and red icons for missing grfs |
| 19:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | err... crash is not nice... can you update to tonight's nigtly? it should fail more gracefully ;) |
| 19:58 | <xahodo> | This is what I get: http://pastebin.com/m70e2209 |
| 19:59 | <xahodo> | And here's the savegame: http://senduit.com/9b7d7c |
| 19:59 | <xahodo> | I'm on current trunk. |
| 19:59 | <xahodo> | sorry: head |
| 20:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | öhm... could you load the savegame before? is it one of your savegames? |
| 20:01 | <xahodo> | It's a savegame I'm currently playing with a friend. |
| 20:02 | <xahodo> | I'm going to check the previous nightly now. |
| 20:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so when was the last time you could load the savegame? |
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| 20:03 | <xahodo> | Well, this is a network game. This is what the server passed me for a savegame. |
| 20:04 | <xahodo> | i.e. log-in download |
| 20:05 | <xahodo> | r 14757 gives the same problem. |
| 20:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | then fetch the data/newgrf folder of your friend, and put it into your data folder |
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| 20:07 | <xahodo> | Done that, I am now trying to compare MD5's. |
| 20:07 | <xahodo> | *comparing |
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| 20:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "This usually takes about 10 minutes (from around 1am UTC to 1.10am)" <- that's totally a lie |
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| 20:15 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ |
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| 20:24 | <darks> | Rubidium: i found why there is the problem about non-latin, exactly is the problem about CJK. |
| 20:26 | <xahodo> | Another note about the savegame: prior to the save a company was deleted (the company hasn't built anything) and currently depots built by the third player can't be removed by anyone. |
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| 20:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, there was some change about deleted companies recently |
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| 20:30 | <xahodo> | The third player was the player owning the deleted company (he decided to join the already present company). |
| 20:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | @openttd commit 14750 |
| 20:31 | <@DorpsGek> | Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r14750 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2008-12-26 21:49:00 UTC) |
| 20:31 | <@DorpsGek> | Eddi|zuHause: -Fix [FS#1993]: in an MP game in SP mode no company would go bankrupt. Furthermore companies that passed the "bankrupt" period (4 quarters) wouldn't go bankrupt when loading the game back in MP. Now any company that is in MP or not "currently controlled by the player" in SP will bankrupt. |
| 20:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | maybe related to that? |
| 20:33 | <Eddi|zuHause> | could you try nightly from before? |
| 20:33 | <xahodo> | which rev would that be? |
| 20:33 | <Eddi|zuHause> | how should i know... |
| 20:34 | <xahodo> | wait... I'll just try a revision before your commit :) |
| 20:36 | <xahodo> | wasn't there a savegame bump in the meantime? |
| 20:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i don't know |
| 20:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | haven't seen a commit message telling there was one |
| 20:37 | <xahodo> | r14749: openttd: /home/xander/dev/openttd/trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:272: void TrainConsistChanged(Vehicle*, bool): Assertion `u->First() == v' failed. |
| 20:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | then i can't help you |
| 20:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | possibly make a bug report |
| 20:38 | <xahodo> | ok |
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| 20:47 | <darks> | Is there any CJK(Chinese Japanese Korean) player? |
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| 20:49 | <darks> | Is there any CJK(Chinese Japanese Korean) player? A problem about the CJK characters typing.... |
| 20:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | darks: i fear that this is not the best place to ask such exotic questions, you could try the forum. and i am sure there are japanese tt forums |
| 20:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the vast majority of people here are european |
| 20:54 | <darks> | Eddi|zuHause: thx. Should I post this problem in the forum named OpenTTD Problem ? |
| 20:54 | <darks> | Eddi|zuHause: ok |
| 20:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you can also state your problem at bugs.openttd.org |
| 20:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | with as much detail as possible |
| 20:56 | <darks> | Eddi|zuHause: ok...I will try it.thx |
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| --- | Log | closed Wed Dec 31 00:00:40 2008 |
