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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-12-30

---Logopened Tue Dec 30 00:00:39 2008
00:05<Eddi|zuHause>George: that statement was highly exaggerated
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06:58<petern>bah, i can't get tortoise going with svn+ssh :/
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07:08<+dihedral>petern: istall winssh
07:08<+dihedral>iirc it's
07:08<+dihedral>that might help
07:09<+dihedral>that's ssh via cygwin
07:09<+dihedral>and tortoise should be able to use that
07:10<petern>it's supposed to work with putty keys by itself
07:12<+dihedral>that's a bummmer
07:13<Alberth>petern: If you don't mind using a free version of a commercial product, smartsvn is known to work (at my work many Win* users use it to access our svn repositories).
07:13<petern>i just used anonymous access in the end :p
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07:18<@Rubidium>petern: if Belugas can set it up, you should be able to too ;)
07:20<petern>it works for putty :/
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07:24<petern>oh for the love of apt...
07:29<petern>this dxsdk installer is really shit
07:29<petern>how many times does it really need to unpack an archive... :o
07:31<petern>gah, dxguid.lib missing :o
07:34*dihedral pats his mac
07:34<+dihedral>things can be so easy
07:35<petern>fucking thing
07:36<petern>turns out the mar 2008 sdk was already installed
07:36<petern>so i downloaded and installed 460MB of aug 2007 sdk for no reason
07:36<petern>just that the paths were set up in msvc
07:37<petern>when i know they have been done automatically in the past
07:41<yorick>is there any GetSignalDirectionFromTrack function?
07:44<+dihedral>did you grep?
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>any such function would most probably be found in rail_func.h
07:45<yorick>yes, I did grep
07:45<yorick>and there is no rail_func.h
07:46<Alberth>is there any value for such a function? (I can drive in any direction on any track as long as I don't pass a signal)
07:46<yorick>there is if you want to draw/read
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07:49<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: sorry, track_func.h
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>or something
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>maybe rail.h
07:49<yorick>rather some _map.h file
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07:56*petern ponders this acceleration thingy
07:56<petern>mass (kg) * speed (mph) * coeff = resistance in N (but * 4 for some reason?)
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08:01<+dihedral>petern, "and then a lot of magic occurs right here" :-P
08:02<petern>s/magic/shit/, perhaps
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>that is exactly the kind of problem that occurs when code quality is not checked properly and patches are included too early
08:05<petern>dihedral, for instance, why is engine power involved in braking at all?
08:05<+dihedral>can one not break with the engine?
08:05<+dihedral>but i guess not on trains
08:05<+dihedral>works nicely in cars
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08:06<+dihedral>going 100mph? put in the first gear see what happens :-D
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: they can, but mechanical brakes are independent from engine power
08:06<+dihedral>hi Wolf01
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>modern engines have regenerative brakes, for example
08:06<+dihedral>weight, speed, and break power?
08:06<+dihedral>(overall total)
08:07<+dihedral>i.e. mass :-P
08:07<+dihedral>heading out
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>there might be "unbroken" (:p) axle
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. early freight wagons in UKRS
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>which is the entire reason for attaching a braking wagon
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08:15<Eddi|zuHause>may i propose a model for track inclination?
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>where / means a sloped track, and _ means a flat straight track
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. to have 1% incline you cannot have curves or switches in 3 tiles radius
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>(it should then tell this inclination in the query window)
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>or possibly the last track bit might be curved. so that a curve right before and after the slope would fall into the 3% case
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08:25<petern>what about
08:25<petern> \___
08:25<petern> \___
08:25<petern>is that 2 * 1% slopes?
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08:26<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't want to make the check too complicated
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>with this version, you would check at most 6 additional tiles to determine the slope incline
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08:36<petern>i can simplify this
08:36<petern>and make the units make sense
08:37<petern>and fix the air drag bug, i think
08:37<petern>and resistance... assuming i'm reading this properly
08:38<petern>which i'm not
08:38<petern>never mind
08:38<petern>damn it, msvc can apply code changes while running
08:40<petern>i don't understand the conversion from km/h to mph
08:40<petern>these equations are simpler with km/h
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08:40<petern>km/h to m/s being a simple * 3.6
08:40<petern>er, / 3.6 :)
08:41<petern>oh yes, that's it, game units are not km/h
08:41<petern>le sigh
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08:43<Eddi|zuHause>i really thing that we should just define 1 mile == 1.6km throughout the entire game, and declare all internal units as being km
08:44*Rubidium already assigns Eddi|zuHause to the bug reports that'll come from that change
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>but apparently that "breaks" newgrf compatibility, as those expect units to be in miles/1.6, not km
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i know this has been tried before :p
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>but i think that is one of the "overzealous realism" instances
08:46<petern>internal units should be m/s
08:46<petern>unfortunately that requires integer magic
08:56<petern>sanitized it slight *and* with less maths...
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09:07<petern>of course, now the train is much slower..
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09:11<petern>which makes little sense, as air drag is much lower
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>you broke the deep magic
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>it is punishing you
09:12<petern>i fail to see any conversion compensating for speed being in the wrong units twice
09:15<petern>can somebody please explain resistance *= 4 [N]
09:15<petern>and mass * 4 later on...
09:16<petern>and also 60 = 3%
09:16<petern>(i could try working that one out though)
09:19<petern>according to MB it's simply mass * 3% * 10N
09:20<petern>(so 3% is 30, not 60)
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>i think the effect of slopes was way too low in the past
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09:24<edeca>yorick: Afternoon
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>as cool an engine the E94 (Crocodile) is, it should not be able to pull 2000t trains uphill
09:26<yorick>edeca: I've been working on the gui somewhat, the code looks better now
09:26<edeca>yorick: I think I've simplified the signal copying now to one FOR_EACH_BIT_SET, but I don't have my data files here to test it ;)
09:26<edeca>yorick: It compiles, but I can play
09:26<petern>force = min(force, mass * 10 * 200);
09:27<edeca>yorick: Oh nice. Perhaps if we're both going to work on it we should decide on tasks :)
09:27<petern>^ and what is that for?
09:27<edeca>petern: It keeps the flux capacitor oiled
09:27<petern>i'm guessing it was to limit TE before max_TE was done
09:27<edeca>yorick: What have you modified so far?
09:28<yorick>fixed the signals, made the command queue have its own tick call, replaced some stuff by SB
09:32<yorick>and I'm currently getting it to copy all signal types on a tile
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09:33<edeca>oh, you fixed signals?
09:33<yorick>yeah, it actually pastes pbs again :)
09:34<yorick>the bad news: not enough bits to store semaphore type for both signals
09:35<edeca>Well the save format needs an overhaul
09:36<edeca>Perhaps we should make a wiki page and document the format
09:36<edeca>Did you fix the signal copying? I've done that too
09:36<edeca>And we could divide tasks on the wiki too ;)
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09:38<edeca>Compression should be easy for the files on disk, lzo is already used
09:39<yorick>no lzo, zlib ;)
09:39<yorick>uint16 doesn't actually have bit 16, does it :/
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09:40<yorick>(if you start at 0)
09:40<edeca>No :)
09:40<edeca>You need 1 extra bit for semaphore?
09:40<yorick>dihedral: just put me on ignore then, thank you
09:41<edeca>So anyway, have you modified the signal copying? Or do you want me to pastebin what I've done so you can try it
09:41<+dihedral>no - that would be making it too easy for you
09:41<yorick>edeca: no, I actually need 1 extra bit for the signal type :(
09:41<+dihedral>just because you dont want me to comment on stupid stuff you say :-P
09:41<edeca>dihedral: Do you have any cheese?
09:41<+dihedral>why dont you put _me_ on _your_ ignore list, if you dont like hearing what i say to your stuff?
09:42<yorick>good one, thank you, done that
09:42<+dihedral>you are most welcome
09:42<yorick>ah well then, goodbye semaphores :p
09:43<edeca>Good solution.
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09:43<edeca>What's wrong with the current solution that uses a bool for semaphore?
09:43<+dihedral>the funny thing is, yorick has the bad habit of reading the logs when someone is on his ignore list, because he feels i might be missing something
09:43<+dihedral>and the feeling of missing out, is something he really does not like
09:44<yorick>that there isn't enough space to store both signal types
09:44<edeca>Ah, I see.
09:44<edeca>So you *have* modified the copy code?
09:44<edeca>Are we going to get to the bottom of that? ;)
09:44<+dihedral>and now he will not even dare commenting what i have said, even though he is reading the logs at :-P
09:44<+dihedral>and pressing F5 every 3 seconds
09:44<petern>tell me what resistance = 13 * mass / 10 is supposed to be
09:44<petern>and then
09:45<petern>tell me what 60 * number of axles is supposed to be
09:45*edeca pokes yorick
09:46<yorick>edeca: quite a bit :p
09:46<+dihedral>60 is the power of the break per axle?
09:46<yorick>at least in such a way that breaks template compatibility twice
09:46<petern>no, general resistance, friction, etc
09:46<petern>it's always there
09:46<+dihedral>and you wanna store to each wagon how many axles it has?
09:46<petern>(except that number of axles is actually number of wagons)
09:47<petern>no, that would be easy
09:47<edeca>yorick: Well shall we make a plan of who will do what then? And some documentation for the format?
09:47<petern>what is the 60, and what is the 1.3?
09:47*petern ponders looking at the ancient floating point implementation
09:48<+dihedral>lbs or newton for the 60 (wild guess - i have honestly not the listest, atm)
09:48<edeca>yorick: On the wiki? Or where?
09:48<yorick>just on the wiki is fine
09:49<+dihedral>for the 1.3 ...... enlighten me? where'd you get it from?
09:50<+dihedral>actually it looks like having unbreaked wagons could turn out to be a huge amount of fun
09:51<petern>dihedral: 13 * blah / 10 = blah * 1.3
09:51<petern>celestar should know it all, he committed this realistic acceleration ;)
09:51<+glx>maybe 1.3 is steel on steel, but I can't find it
09:51<+dihedral>petern, yes - i am aware of that, thank you
09:52<petern>i'm getting the 1.3 from the CODE
09:52<+dihedral>that's what i wanted to know
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>once upon a time i had a Tafelwerk...
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>last time i know i had it was the physics/electronics practice course
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>that was in the 3rd semester
09:54<+dihedral>anyway - have to catch a bus
09:54<edeca>yorick: So what are you working on? Care to upload an svn diff so I can check it out?
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>have a good hunt ;)
09:54<petern>hehe, the old realistic acceleration had max_te...
09:55<yorick>edeca: care if it's a hg diff?
09:55<edeca>yorick: Well 'a diff' that I can apply to trunk
09:55<petern>glx: rolling resistance for steel is listed as 0.0002 to 0.001
09:55<petern>according to wikipedia
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>really, i think that function should be completely ripped out, and cleanly developed from the proper maths
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>not by dirty pseudo-optimisation hacks
09:56<yorick>ooh, it shaved 20kb of the size already
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>which are not even commented
09:56<edeca>yorick: Well if you've compressed some of the copying, I'm not surprised
09:57<petern>Eddi|zuHause, it is mostly proper maths, just the units are confused
09:57<petern>for instance
09:57<petern>i've now got...
09:57<petern>/* Air drag */
09:57<petern>int ad = area * drag_coeff * speed * speed;
09:57<petern>ad /= 128099; // Conversion of speed ^ 2 from 1.6mph to m/s, and then /10000
09:57<petern>which is still magic
09:57<petern>but commented magic
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09:58<edeca>yorick: Did you check the patch I had uploaded to the forums?
09:58<petern>you'd need floats for doing it all in m/s, which we can't do
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't that risk overflow?
09:58<yorick>edeca: not yet
09:58<yorick>andthing new in it?
09:59<petern>yes, for very high speed
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>well, probably not... i don't think trains will get significantly close to speed of sound (~1000km/h)
09:59<edeca>yorick: Well no. But we're duplicating effort quite obviously, which seems pointless. So we either need to decide who does what or I'll just let you get on with it until you get bored.
10:00<petern>we can use int64 if we needed to
10:04<edeca>yorick: Right, your copying code is a little cleaner than mine (but mine uses FOR_EACH_BIT_SET which Rubidium suggested)
10:04<edeca>yorick: What would you like me to look at later? :)
10:04<yorick>no idea
10:05<edeca>Compression for saved templates?
10:05<yorick>yes :)
10:05<yorick>and the templates might need some kind of versioning
10:05<edeca>OK. Now don't go and randomly do it in the meantime!
10:06<edeca>Yes, we do need versioning really. But until you finish fiddling, we should just stick with version 1 :P
10:07<yorick>copying stations might need the distant join stations patch
10:08<edeca>I'll look at how the game does it, but versioning should just be an integer in the template header, right?
10:08<edeca>Which means it *needs* a header :)
10:08<yorick>it has one
10:08<edeca>Oh, nice.
10:08<yorick>currently "TMPL"
10:09<@Rubidium>files should always use a header to identify it; just using the extension is usually not enough
10:09*yorick is gone
10:09<edeca>Oh I see, it modifies saveload.cpp for that
10:09<edeca>Rubidium: That makes sense
10:09<edeca>Meh well I was going to work on this patch but yorick is like a little terrier dog
10:10<edeca>Which dampens my enthusiasm slightly :)
10:10<+glx>hehe :)
10:10<@Rubidium>he dampens *everybody's* enthusiasm
10:10<edeca>Perhaps I'll cure cancer instead, or something else that's easy in the evenings.
10:12<edeca>Well I hate things being duplicated. I don't have enough time in my life for that ;)
10:14<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14773 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp win32.cpp): -Fix-ish[FS#2469]: attach a signal handler during loading savegames to catch any crashes due to broken savegames/missing NewGRFs and tell the user about that instead of "just" crashing without explanation.
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10:18<edeca>Rubidium: How do the developers divide tasks for the core stuff?
10:18<+glx>we don't
10:19*yorick is back
10:20<@Rubidium>someone does the core stuff and the others fix whatever breaks for their compiler ;)
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10:21<edeca>yorick: Welcome back
10:21*yorick barks
10:21<edeca>Heh. Obedient too.
10:22<edeca>yorick: We *really* need to avoid duplication :)
10:22<yorick>hg repo?
10:22<edeca>Yeah. Sensible.
10:22<edeca>I've never used hg, can't be hard though
10:22<edeca>I can host if you need?
10:23<edeca>I'll set that up tonight too then.
10:23<edeca>How does it work with syncing to trunk?
10:23<edeca>i.e. can you sync to trunk and keep local patches easil
10:24<yorick>yes, you can just use diff
10:24<yorick>hg pull && hg merge && fix_conflicts_manually && hg commit && hg push hgrepo
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10:26<edeca>I'll setup an hg server later
10:27<dark>I have a problem
10:27<yorick>hi dark, tell us
10:28*Rubidium has a problem too
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10:29<Roujin>just got a weird server message...
10:30<yorick>@openttd commit 14771
10:30<@DorpsGek>yorick: Commit by rubidium :: r14771 trunk/src/network/network.cpp (2008-12-29 21:41:20 UTC)
10:30<@DorpsGek>yorick: -Fix (r14764): resolving of error types to error messages kinda failed :(
10:30<yorick>that one?
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10:30<Roujin>xyz has left the game(Not enough cash - requires GBP890)
10:30<yorick>yeah, fixed by 14771, I believe
10:30<+glx>that's it :)
10:30<@Rubidium>yes... you have to pay to play OpenTTD ;)
10:31<@Rubidium>though only OpenTTD money is accepted
10:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14774 /trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp: -Change: show which tile caused the "error" when leveling land like raising and lowering does and use the same sound.
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10:35<+glx>indeed he have a connection problem
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10:37<yorick>mmm, signals could be stored more efficiently
10:38<edeca>yorick: What do you suggest
10:38<yorick>there can only be signals on the direction of the track
10:39<yorick>then you just have to store if there are 0, 1 or 2 signals on a tile
10:41<Roujin>what about diagonal tracks?
10:41<yorick>2 signals?
10:41<Roujin>ah you mean that with 2 signals
10:42<Roujin>thought you mean one sided/ two sided ones
10:42<Roujin>ok, then how do you differ between the two possible locations for one signal?
10:43<yorick>10 = signal at left/top, 01 = signal at right/bottom, 00 = no signal, 11 = signals everywhere
10:44<Roujin>and how is it stored currently?
10:44<yorick>on the copy paste array
10:44<yorick>5 bits used for every trackbit
10:45<yorick>I think it's already stored like that on the map array
10:46<edeca>Well keeping the template simple is the best. lz will handle size surely?
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10:46<edeca>Except for large memory usage :(
10:46<edeca>zlib, whatever ;)
10:46<edeca>I haven't looked at it yet
10:46<+glx>petern: look who arrived :)
10:46<@Celestar>oh uh
10:46*Celestar hides behind a barrell
10:47*yorick steps aside
10:47*yorick kicks the barrel
10:48<@Rubidium>Celestar: you could better hide in a cubicle; then you can at least do some useful work ;)
10:48<petern>heh, the old model also doubled airdrag in tunnels
10:49<+glx>petern: probably because train acts like a piston
10:49<@Celestar>I've been a tad busy with family life in the past few days.
10:49<edeca>petern: Are you completely rewriting it?
10:49<@Celestar>that will change from Friday on :P
10:49<yorick>you'll kill your family?
10:50*Celestar pokes yorick with a blunt spoon
10:50<@Celestar>petern: what can I do for you? (=
10:51<+glx>search hard in your memory :)
10:51<@Rubidium>Celestar: take a look at[]=1&reported[]=38&status[]=open ?
10:51<+glx> <-- some magic values are too magic
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10:52<@Celestar>Rubidium: look taken, bugs still there :P
10:52<@Celestar>Rubidium: more work required :P
10:52<@Celestar>petern: go ahead
10:53<@Celestar>I remember those numbers (=
10:53<@Celestar>Rubidium: I'll fix them after New Year's eve I guess
10:54<darks>BUT who knows how to solve the non-latin input problem?
10:54<@Rubidium>what problem?
10:55<+glx>what OS?
10:55<petern>you remember them?
10:55<petern>what do they mean!
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10:55<+glx>what version ?
10:55<@Rubidium>last thing you said was "i have a problem"
10:55<@Rubidium>I'd say: blame Bjarni for not implementing it ;)
10:56<+glx>works for me (win32 version) :)
10:56<darks>god....the php IRC is very easy to disconnect
10:56<@Celestar>if (need_scapegoat) sql_call("SELECT nickname FROM users WHERE nickname = 'Bjarni'");
10:56<@Rubidium>Celestar: that's totally wrong
10:57<darks>glx: you can type non-latin words just like chinese in OTTD?
10:57<@Celestar>Rubidium: why?
10:57<@Rubidium>Celestar: SELECT person FROM persons AS p WHERE broken_thing IN (SELECT thing FROM things WHERE developed_by_id =
10:58<darks>glx: without any change the src?
10:58<+glx>I just need to select the right keyboard layout
10:58<@Celestar>Rubidium: what about non-existing things?
10:58<darks>glx: i have nothing to say about it...
10:58<@Rubidium>Celestar: is the OSX port non-existing?
10:58<darks>glx: how to select the keyboard layout?
10:58<@Celestar>Rubidium: I think it is in a quantum state
10:59<@Rubidium>darks: the problem is that you use a different OS than glx uses. For glx' OS is works, for your OS nobody has been bothered to implement it
10:59<+glx>on windows I click on the little thing in taskbar
11:00<@Rubidium>and the major problem with your OS is that there are very few people that can implement stuff for it
11:00<darks>Rubidium: is there anyone using linux and getting the same problem for me?
11:00<@Rubidium>the person who did make the OSX port has not been working on the port for many many months and he didn't have much time beyond fixing some bugs
11:00<+glx>or when something works then Apple decides to break it in next release
11:00<@Celestar>darks: I'm on linux. what's the problem?
11:01<darks>Rubidium: maybe
11:01<darks>Celestar: can you type non-latin words in the edit box
11:02<darks>Celestar: when you edit the name of your company or the groups.
11:02<@Celestar>darks: I'll test in a few minutes.
11:02<@Rubidium>darks: doesn't matter whether it works in Linux, because Linux is not OSX
11:03<@Celestar>I've an OpenGL app running and AMD's driver doesn't manage to display an SDL window when an OpenGL window is running
11:03<darks>glx: maybe. but if the linux users can work, OSX users may work too
11:03<@Rubidium>especially because OSX port doesn't use the same APIs to communicate with the OS as the Linux port does
11:04<darks>Rubidium: no,it's very similar.
11:04<+glx>it's not
11:04<@Rubidium>darks: it is not
11:04<+glx>at least for all GUI related stuff
11:04<@Celestar>it's not _very_ similar
11:04<@Celestar>and the GUI is all different
11:05<@Celestar>heh @ glx
11:05<darks>I know the GUI is all different,but maybe on this game, it's similar.
11:05<+glx>it looks the same
11:05<@Celestar>the not the GUI, the GUI API.
11:06<@Celestar>if you prefer (=
11:06<@Rubidium>the backend talking to the OS for the OSX port is vastly different than the backend used for the Linux port which is vastly different than the backend used for the Windows port
11:06<@Rubidium>as the backend handles all the input and output the similarity of the backend determines whether it working in one of the backends means whether it works in another
11:07<@Celestar>I'm out a bit
11:07<@Celestar>cu :D
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11:07<darks>in Linux, i use fcitx to type chinese. in OS, i use fcit to type chinese. fcit is just like a copy to OS. the auther said he did many copy from fcitx
11:08<darks>Rubidium: maybe
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11:12*darks trying to ./configure && make
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11:49<Swallow>Powered wagons have 0 tractive effort. Is this intentional?
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>only when the newgrf says so
11:51<Swallow>In the part of TrainPowerChanged that handles powered wagons, only power and no TE iis added
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11:59<insulfrog>hi all
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12:04<petern>Eddi|zuHause, help
12:04<petern>F=ma, so a=F/m, right?
12:05<petern>m is in kg, right?
12:05<petern>we do it in tons
12:05<petern>no wonder it's all shite :p
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>then the factor is 1000 ;)
12:06<petern>ah well
12:06<petern>the resultant units don't mean anything anyway
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>you should definitely put the units in the comment
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>as in: a = F/m; // m/s = kN / t
12:07<petern>in real life, yes
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12:07<petern>original acceleration model is
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>err... but hp is not a force
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12:10<Eddi|zuHause>F = P/v ... or so
12:11<petern>yes i know
12:11<petern>let's pretend the original acceleration model assumes velocity is always 1
12:12<petern>then F == P
12:12<petern>but the units... :o
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>that's what the 4 is for ;)
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>hp to kN is something like 3/4? [very roughly rounded]
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12:16<Eddi|zuHause>1 PS = 736 W
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>hm, starting in 2010, it is not allowed to use horse power anymore
12:21<yorick>1 horsepower = 745.699872 watts, according to google
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>british horses might be slightly more powerful than german ones ;)
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe those are american horses
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>"eine Pferdestärke entspricht 0,73549875 kW" <- says wikipedia
12:23<yorick>mechanical horsepower is 745.... watts, metric horsepower is 735....
12:23<yorick>and electrical horsepower is 746 W
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>"1 PS ist in DIN 66036 (Deutsches Institut für Normung) definiert als die Leistung, die erbracht werden muss, um einen Körper der Masse m = 75 kg entgegen dem Schwerkraftfeld der Erde (bei Erdbeschleunigung 9,80665 m/s²) mit einer Geschwindigkeit von 1 m/s zu bewegen[4]."
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>1 PS = 75 kpm/s = 735,49875 W
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i do see how it could be called "metric" horsepower ;)
12:25<yorick>PS != hp
12:25<yorick>well, not the generic hp
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>"PS" is the german translation of "hp"
12:25*yorick is gone
12:26<petern>it's a little different
12:26<petern>but mostly the same
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>the long definititon translates rougly to "transport 75km against earth gravity (9,81m/s^2) at 1m/s
12:28<+tokai>kilogramm not kilometer ;)
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>err, yes
12:28*tokai wonders why it is only 75 kg...
12:29*tokai thought horses would be a bit heavier than that
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>not the weight of the horse
12:29<Prof_Frink>...and how much power does an actual horse produce?
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>a horse dragging a 75kg object
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>"Die Leistung eines Pferdes kann je nach Rasse, Trainingszustand oder augenblicklicher Anstrengung erheblich abweichen: ein Pferd etwa beim Galopp oder beim Springreiten kann kurzfristig deutlich mehr, nämlich über 20 PS leisten, während es im Tagesdurchschnitt etwa 1 PS leistet[3]."
12:31<+tokai>A horse dragging 75 kg makes not much sense when you can sit *on* the horse :) Getting dragged might actually hurt a little.
12:31<Prof_Frink>tokai: Let me show you my new invention. I call it the "cart".
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>but sitting on the horse makes it difficult to measure against earth gravity
12:32<+tokai>Prof_Frink: but you and a cart might weight more than 75kg :)
12:33*tokai at least weights around 75kg himself already.
12:33<Prof_Frink>tokai: carbon fibre.
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>1 bhp ["brake horse power"] = 1,014 DIN-PS = 745,7 W
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>= 33 000 lbf.·ft./min = 550 lbf.·ft./s
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12:37<petern>using kg now
12:37<petern>multiplied the acceleration by an arbitrary magic number
12:37<petern>train does not get up to 20/30mph instantly
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12:52<Swallow>petern: If you're working on train physics, you might want to look at
12:52<Swallow>It adds TE for powered wagons (2cc set for example)
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13:29<petern>working on realistic acceleration is pointless
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13:32<petern>kudr's was right
13:32<petern>rolling resistance is nothing
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13:39<@Rubidium>but... but... then it's not "realistic acceleration" anymore
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>i wanted to mention that earlier ;)
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13:41<Eddi|zuHause>air drag is the important part for high speed, tractive effort for low speed, and power for inclines
13:42<petern>in our code, rolling resistance is high
13:42<petern>or something
13:42<petern>i dunno
13:42<petern>problem is it is there but always rounds down to 0
13:43<petern>i'm now experimenting changing subspeed to be 16 instead of 8 bits
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r14775 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-12-30 18:44:32
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 10 fixed, 2 changed by khaloofah (12)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 14 fixed, 63 changed by tperic (77)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: indonesian - 13 fixed by rindu (13)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 2 fixed by zibiam (2)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: romanian - 13 fixed by kkmic (13)
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13:57<Eddi|zuHause>really, i'd just cut roll resistance
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>useless calculation work
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>that's why they are using wheels, because it has practically no effect
13:59<+tokai>Would you actually be able to see the difference in the game if a train moves like 0.00002 pixel slower or faster? :)
14:00<George>I had a new hardware instalation and was not logging the channel. Was there any result i discussion about house population CB?
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14:02<George>pity :(
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14:04<petern>tokai, no, but if it calls itself realistic... ;)
14:04<petern>Maybe I should do it as a new acceleration model
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14:04<petern>Call it "DontLookBelugasItsRealisticAcceleration"
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14:05<Nite_Owl>Hello all
14:07<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it should be a difficulty option "Acceleration Model: {simple, complex}"
14:07<Swallow>Is train property 20 (coefficient of air drag) planned to be implemented at some point?
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14:14<petern>Eddi|zuHause, it's not more complex, it just behaves differently. people don't like change, see.
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14:29<petern>SmatZ, r14742 broke it
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14:37<OsteHovel^EEE>Hi all
14:37<OsteHovel^EEE>How to i disable that old train engines dosent disapear after a period?
14:37<OsteHovel^EEE>*do disapair
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14:37<OsteHovel^EEE>i want to play with all trains all the time...
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>in the advanced/patch settings
14:39<OsteHovel^EEE>(/me using the SVN)
14:39<OsteHovel^EEE>so its advanced settings
14:39<OsteHovel^EEE>where in the settings are the setting about that?
14:39<OsteHovel^EEE>i cant find it....
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there's the options "vehicles never expire"
14:40<OsteHovel^EEE>i found it
14:40<OsteHovel^EEE>i love you
14:41<Sacro>"Missing man's car is found by bridge"
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like a german wrote that :p
14:43<Sacro>they really should use "next to" rather than "by"
14:43<Sacro>or "underneath"
14:43<Prof_Frink>When civ eng meets AI, we're all doomed.
14:43<Sacro>Prof_Frink: or located
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>german preposition "bei" means "next to"
14:44<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: ah yes
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>very common mistake of germans
14:44<Sacro>germans often make mistakes...
14:45<Prof_Frink>#1 being "Being German"
14:46<Sacro>"eating bratwurst"?
14:46<Prof_Frink>"invading russia in the winter"
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14:47<Eddi|zuHause>the french are good at that, too ;)
14:47<Sacro>"invading poland when others are watching"
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>you british guys are useless as soon as you come out of the water... that's why you never even went close to russia
14:49<Sacro>ah yes, there speaks an argie
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>i hate the max loan... you can't start out with a double track line between two cities
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14:50<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: they attacked us first, we only shot back... :p
14:50<Prof_Frink>What? You started it!
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14:51<ccfreak2k>They say the same thing about Han/
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>„Polen hat heute nacht zum erstenmal auf unserem eigenen Territorium auch mit bereits regulären Soldaten geschossen. Seit 5.45 Uhr wird jetzt zurückgeschossen! Und von jetzt ab wird Bombe mit Bombe vergolten![30]“
14:54<Eddi|zuHause> Zitiert nach Adolf Hitler: Rede vor dem Reichstag, 1. September 1939;
14:55<OsteHovel^EEE>I have played from 1920 to 2066 and i have had all the trains and now i have lost most of them... then with help of mr. Eddi|zuHause in here, i have activated the vichles dont expire.. but how do i get all the old vicles back?
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>OsteHovel^EEE: go to the console, and type "resetengines"
14:55<OsteHovel^EEE>i done that now!!! And it worked!
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: if mister Hitler said it, it must be true!
14:56<OsteHovel^EEE>What shoud i have dont widout you mr. Eddi|zuHause
14:57<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Do you not know of Fawlty Towers?
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>err... what?
14:57<Prof_Frink>Don't mention the war!
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>err... what?
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14:58<OsteHovel^EEE>is it posible to exstract an GRF file and change that a train is a railway train and not monolev? (its a single train in a single grf)
14:59<OsteHovel^EEE>or is that very hard todo?
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>OsteHovel^EEE: just get grfcodec
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>and read the grf specs about action0
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>then look for the vehicle ID in question
15:00<Nicky-NL>i am reading an tutorial for making your own grf but the grfcodec does't wanna come up. it goes direct away, someone knows what i must do? :P
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>Nicky-NL: grfcodec is a console application
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>you need to start it from the command line with parameters
15:00<Nicky-NL>start and then run?
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>no, console applications do not "run", you start them, they immediately do something, and then end
15:02<mincepie>Eddi|zuHause: he may be referring to the Windows start menu and the Run command
15:02<OsteHovel^EEE>and then write CMD
15:02<OsteHovel^EEE>then you get console
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>yes, then start -> run -> cmd
15:03<Nicky-NL>ok and then where it should take place?
15:03<mincepie>Prof_Frink: that episode is interesting, according to Cleese, because it contains so little Germans and should really be called The Fire Drill
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>i am totally out of the windows terminology... plus i have never used windows in english
15:03<OsteHovel^EEE>i like linux much better....
15:03<Nicky-NL>the tutorial says i must do this: grfcodec -e mytrain.grf
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>Nicky-NL: when you are in cmd, you go to the directory where your grf files are
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>cd C:\place\where\stuff\is
15:04<Nicky-NL>ah i gonna try something :)
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>so you are one level above the "sprites" directory
15:04<Prof_Frink>Hmm, I think I ate too much over christmas. I'm hallucinating mince pies on irc.
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>"dir sprites" should say something like:
15:05*mincepie dances in confusing pattern around Prof_Frink
15:05*Prof_Frink attempts to eat mincepie
15:05<mincepie>Prof_Frink: don't worry, you're among only a very few here who even know what a mince pie is...
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>then type "grfcodec -e mygrf.grf"
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: i don't think i have ever seen that show
15:06<mincepie>Eddi|zuHause: you've never seen Fawlty Towers?
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>that is exactly what i said, yes.
15:07<mincepie>good grief
15:07<Nicky-NL>thx i dont work so much whit that run program :p
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>"Das Fernsehen der DDR strahlte Mai–Juli 1987 zehn Episoden (1–5 und 7–11) aus." <- they missed out episode 6 for some reason :p
15:09<Nicky-NL>lol mine firewall says: dedected possible malware behavior in the place where grfcodec is
15:10<mincepie>Eddi|zuHause: likely the goose-stepping
15:10<Nicky-NL>now i got an NEW-file :s
15:10<Nicky-NL>0 kb
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15:12<Eddi|zuHause>Nicky-NL: then it did not find the .nfo file
15:13<Nicky-NL>ah i did something wrong?
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>where is your .nfo file?
15:14<+glx>it must be in sprites
15:14<Nicky-NL>i have did in in an sperate map
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>if it is in the same directory as you run grfcodec, you can try "grfcodec -e mygrf.grf ."
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>the "." is important there
15:18<Nicky-NL>again an new file
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15:19<+glx>what does it say?
15:20<+glx>grfcodec is usually verbose
15:20<Nicky-NL>it says nothing
15:21<Nicky-NL>i am trying the tutorial from
15:21<@Belugas>a mince pie a not a fat pie
15:22<mincepie>Belugas: one of the main ingredients in the traditional recipe is beef suet
15:22<Prof_Frink>A mince pie isn't a pie for long if I'm around.
15:22*mincepie concurs wholeheartedly and high-fives Prof_Frink
15:23<@Belugas>therefor, Prof_Frink is not mince anymore
15:23<@Belugas>p.s.-> mince in french is thin in english
15:24<mincepie>this is perhaps a gross pie then ¬.¬
15:28<Nicky-NL>is there not an simply program for making grf then?
15:28<Nicky-NL>so easy as paint :P
15:28<petern>SmatZ: "Remember that map automitically sorts its elements according to the key, i.e. the first element."
15:28<petern>SmatZ: so that's why it doesn't work :o
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>mincepie: about as gross as cooked wild pig in mince sauce?
15:29<Sacro>mince sauce?
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>"the poor pig"
15:29<Nicky-NL>well i gonna try tommorow cya :s
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15:30<@Belugas>ho.. a live petern :)
15:30<petern>hello Belugas
15:30<mincepie>mince sauce? ¬.¬
15:30<petern>@seen smatz
15:30<@DorpsGek>petern: smatz was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 22 hours, 13 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <SmatZ> 9-)
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15:33<@Belugas>wroking from work, petern?
15:34<@Belugas>hello indeed, by the way...
15:34<petern>working from home
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro/mincepie, might be a mistranslation of mine, but it's a line from "Asterix in Britain"
15:35<@Belugas>working for work, but from home, on my side. a bit confusing :)
15:35<Prof_Frink>Pig should be with apple sauce. Lamb with mince and beef with horseradish. And yorksher pud.
15:35<Prof_Frink>mince? mint!
15:35<mincepie>and pork with cranberry
15:35*Prof_Frink 's brains have turned to mince.
15:35<mincepie>always with yorkshire pudding...
15:36<mincepie>yorkshire puddings are brilliant
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's a french movie, after all ;)
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15:37<mincepie>it's possible that yorkshire puddings hadn't been invented in the time the film was set :P
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>that never stopped the asterix writers :p
15:37<mincepie>true, true
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>big ben and the tower bridge were not "invented" back then, either
15:38<mincepie>well, actually, there was a bridge there as far back as 900 BC
15:38<Sacro>mmmmm, yorkshire pudd
15:38*mincepie nods
15:40<@Belugas>hu??? you make pudding out of yorkshire??? poor little doggy :(
15:40<Prof_Frink>Damn terrierists.
15:40*mincepie screams in pain
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>hm, anyone knows a program where i can save an rtsp stream to disk?
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>wget refuses the protocol
15:44<Prof_Frink>mplayer -dumpstream
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>"Cannot dump this stream - no file descriptor available."
15:47<Prof_Frink>You need a deep incantation to get mplayer to work.
15:48<petern>uh huh
15:50<mincepie>and perhaps the sacrifice of a small rodent
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15:50<Eddi|zuHause>Error: Client error. Reply was: 454 Session Not Found
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>when i just type "mplayer <url>"
15:51<edeca>Oh bugger, where's the log again?
15:52<edeca>petern: Oh yes, of course!
15:53<edeca>Where's the online, browsable version of the IRC logs for this channel from the year of our Lord 2008?
15:53<petern>pom te pom:
15:53<Prof_Frink>Or possibly fish://
15:53<petern>silly people breaking that feature yet again
15:53<petern>usually it was bjarni, though
15:54<Prof_Frink>What size are your pair?
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>edeca: there are at least two
15:56<edeca>Eddi|zuHause: I've found the URL I was after now, cheers
15:56<edeca>It's expired though and yorick isn't here, so I wont be doing much more tonight. Gr.
15:56<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: try vlc (it supports rtsp)
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>glx: well, kaffeine can play the stream
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>but i want to save it...
15:56<edeca>vlc can save too
15:57<+glx>vlc can record it for sure
15:57<edeca>You just select the output plugin
15:57<+glx>but I don't know the exact command line (I use front end to manage that)
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>21:57:35: input_rip: Rippen/Zwischenspeichern dieser Quelle nicht erlaubt!
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15:58<Eddi|zuHause>i guess they do not want that...
15:58<Prof_Frink>Well, there's your problem. You need to erlaubt your Zwischenspeichern.
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>which is weird, because the recording is clearly more than 50 years old, so not subject to copyright
15:59<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: What's the URL?
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16:04<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14776 /trunk/src/ (core/smallmap_type.hpp newgrf_engine.cpp): -Fix (r14742): ListPositionMap relied on std::map having sorted the map, which is now done by a manual key sorter on SmallMap. This fixes engine ID list sorting.
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16:05<petern>only a month that time
16:06<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: `mplayer -dumpfile polen.rm -dumpstream rtsp://` seemed to work, but I can't get the (96kB) file to play
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>who sorts engine lists anyway?
16:09<petern>that's the default sorting
16:09<petern>my 260hp/35kN railcar actually gets stuck going up hill
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16:10<Sacro>petern: newphysics?
16:11<petern>tweaked magic values
16:12<petern>yarr, it manages it with a shunter bolted on
16:12<petern>oh, it has 8 carriages attached, which is a bit silly
16:12<petern>it's fine by itself :)
16:13<petern>could do with better brakes
16:13<petern>silly engine power = braking shit
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>the DBSetXL's railcar (VT 95?) does not reach its max speed with a trailing car attached
16:14<petern>in trunk?
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>in trunk, yes
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>partially because the weight of the wagon is not changed
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>the railcar itself weighs like 18t, but the trailer weighs 40t
16:16<petern>the VT95?
16:17-!-murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:17<petern>hmm, it reached it
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16:18<petern>hehe, ice3 bug :)
16:19<petern>14MW, 2000kN max TE
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16:20<petern>hmm, it can't reach max speed :/
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16:23<petern>MB's ICE3 is on crack
16:23<petern>725t, 14000kW, 2000kN...
16:23<petern>specs are 435t, 8000kW, 300kN
16:25<Sacro>rather than tweak ttdpatch to work correctly...
16:25<@Rubidium>but... petern's specs do not comply with MB's reality
16:25<edeca>Just let May drive it, wont go above 45mph
16:25<Prof_Frink>edeca: One word: Veyron.
16:26-!-murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has joined #openttd
16:26<mincepie>awful machine
16:26<@Rubidium>petern: the wiki says 8000 kW per engine, maybe it has more than one engine?
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>petern: the VT 95 itself can reach max speed, but if you attach a passenger wagon to it, it doesn't
16:26<edeca>Like 1.8 engines to make 14000? :)
16:27<petern>500kW per engine, 4 engines per powered carriage, 4 powered carriages
16:27<@Rubidium>and 4300 when on DC instead of AC
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16:28<petern>Eddi|zuHause, which one is the E92?
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>E94 == BR 194, yes
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>easily the most beautiful engine in the set ;)
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>(in green livery)
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>if only the passenger wagons would be the same length...
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>(2 articulated parts)
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16:31<petern>hmm, that overflows somewhat :o
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>as for the naming scheme, the letters got turned into numbers with introduction of computers in the late '60s, E->1, V->2 [west germany], E->2, V->1 [east germany],
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>with some more or less regular transformation of the rest of the numbers. i.e the V200 got numbered 220 and the V160 to 216 [last digit cut]
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>E10 got 110
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16:35<Eddi|zuHause>that was before computers learned to handle letters ;)
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16:36<Eddi|zuHause>the E94 should be able to handle something like 2000t on flat land, and 500t on slopes
16:37<zircu>dihedral: how cute am i? :)
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>where "slopes" are lines like the Brennerbahn and the Frankenwaldbahn
16:41<petern>i need to calculate the best magic number
16:41<petern>for converting m/s into game-world usable units
16:41<petern>er, m/s/s
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17:04<Prof_Frink>Well, that killed the convo pretty well, eh?
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17:17<Eddi|zuHause>nobody does that as well as you do
17:17<Eddi|zuHause> <- we totally need combo signals like these...
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17:18<mincepie>oh, you're thinking of m·s⁻²
17:19<mincepie>Eddi|zuHause: you implement 'em and I'll use 'em :P
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>mincepie: well, i had a preliminary case study patch with michi_cc for advance signals. problem was that combo signals need more than 2 states
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>which is not directly a problem, because path signals have only 1 direction, there are 2 bits available
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>but the map accessor would need to do different things depending if it's a block signal or a path signal
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>which was a too complex task for me to tackle back then
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>and that did not even consider the fact that 3 graphical states would be necessary
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17:24<@Rubidium>petern: what about 584 as magic number? (number of real world seconds per TrainLocoHandler)
17:24*Rubidium got no idea in what kind of range the magic number should be
17:25<@Rubidium>= 24 * 3600 / 74 / 2 (TrainLocoHandler gets called twice a tick)
17:28<petern>has to be larger than that
17:28<@Rubidium>by how much?
17:29<@Rubidium>factor 2?
17:29<@Rubidium>1.6^2 ?
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17:34<petern>hmm, no, cos i changed the subspeed
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18:04<Eddi|zuHause> <- an ICE in double traction is insanely long... the TTD representation cannot cope with that
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19:44<+tokai>Eddi|zuHause: hmm.. a picture from my town ;)
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>tokai: yes, i know ;)
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19:54<xahodo>I've bumped in a problem: a savegame complains about missing grf's... and then doesn't tell me which grf it misses. :(
19:56<xahodo>Catch is: I've got all the newgrf's needed.
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>when you load the game, you can open the newgrf setting window
19:57<xahodo>errr... load game -> crash
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>it will show green icons for correct grfs, yellow icons for grfs of different version and red icons for missing grfs
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>err... crash is not nice... can you update to tonight's nigtly? it should fail more gracefully ;)
19:58<xahodo>This is what I get:
19:59<xahodo>And here's the savegame:
19:59<xahodo>I'm on current trunk.
19:59<xahodo>sorry: head
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>öhm... could you load the savegame before? is it one of your savegames?
20:01<xahodo>It's a savegame I'm currently playing with a friend.
20:02<xahodo>I'm going to check the previous nightly now.
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>so when was the last time you could load the savegame?
20:03-!-mortal [] has quit [Quit: Checking whether build environment is sane ... build environment is grinning and holding a spatula. Guess not.]
20:03<xahodo>Well, this is a network game. This is what the server passed me for a savegame.
20:04<xahodo>i.e. log-in download
20:05<xahodo>r 14757 gives the same problem.
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>then fetch the data/newgrf folder of your friend, and put it into your data folder
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20:07<xahodo>Done that, I am now trying to compare MD5's.
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20:13<Eddi|zuHause>"This usually takes about 10 minutes (from around 1am UTC to 1.10am)" <- that's totally a lie
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20:24<darks>Rubidium: i found why there is the problem about non-latin, exactly is the problem about CJK.
20:26<xahodo>Another note about the savegame: prior to the save a company was deleted (the company hasn't built anything) and currently depots built by the third player can't be removed by anyone.
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20:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there was some change about deleted companies recently
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20:30<xahodo>The third player was the player owning the deleted company (he decided to join the already present company).
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>@openttd commit 14750
20:31<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r14750 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2008-12-26 21:49:00 UTC)
20:31<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: -Fix [FS#1993]: in an MP game in SP mode no company would go bankrupt. Furthermore companies that passed the "bankrupt" period (4 quarters) wouldn't go bankrupt when loading the game back in MP. Now any company that is in MP or not "currently controlled by the player" in SP will bankrupt.
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>maybe related to that?
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>could you try nightly from before?
20:33<xahodo>which rev would that be?
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>how should i know...
20:34<xahodo>wait... I'll just try a revision before your commit :)
20:36<xahodo>wasn't there a savegame bump in the meantime?
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>haven't seen a commit message telling there was one
20:37<xahodo>r14749: openttd: /home/xander/dev/openttd/trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:272: void TrainConsistChanged(Vehicle*, bool): Assertion `u->First() == v' failed.
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>then i can't help you
20:38<Eddi|zuHause>possibly make a bug report
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20:47<darks>Is there any CJK(Chinese Japanese Korean) player?
20:48-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:49<darks>Is there any CJK(Chinese Japanese Korean) player? A problem about the CJK characters typing....
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>darks: i fear that this is not the best place to ask such exotic questions, you could try the forum. and i am sure there are japanese tt forums
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>the vast majority of people here are european
20:54<darks>Eddi|zuHause: thx. Should I post this problem in the forum named OpenTTD Problem ?
20:54<darks>Eddi|zuHause: ok
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>you can also state your problem at
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>with as much detail as possible
20:56<darks>Eddi|zuHause: ok...I will try it.thx
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---Logclosed Wed Dec 31 00:00:40 2008