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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-01-03

---Logopened Sat Jan 03 00:00:46 2009
00:02-!-vraa_ [~vraa@h127.188.213.151.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
00:25-!-darks [~darks@124.161.79.223] has quit [Quit: darks]
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00:40<darks>Rubidium: seems cannot compile the OTTD with sdl in OSX. some errors in ini.cpp ....
00:51<darks>Rubidium: all error is like below:
00:51<darks>Rubidium: /openttd-trunk-r14768/src/ini.cpp:17: error: ‘strndup’ was not declared in this scope
00:52<darks>Rubidium: all 'strndup' are not declared.
00:55<darks>Rubidium: i have to have a rest. when u see the messages above, tell me please.If I'm not in IRC, email me, (chen.bill.bill@gmail.com). OK? THX very much.
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01:30<Moodles>is it possible to plan track layout (but not lay the track obviously) while paused, im learning the game again
01:31<goodger>Moodles: no.
01:31<goodger>sorry
01:31<goodger>that, again, I think, is in the pipeline..
01:38-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
01:41<Eddi|zuHause>Moodles: there is a "build while paused" cheat, though
01:41<Eddi|zuHause>hm... have i ever mentioned how beautiful snow is?
01:41<Eddi|zuHause>... as long as you are on the inside ...
01:41<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: we will have some snow on monday perhaps
01:42<goodger>the entire professional population of Greater London will complain bitterly about it because their commute will be delayed perhaps thirty seconds
01:43<goodger>the country's train networks will grind to a halt, and a year's supply of road salt will be expended in two hours
01:44<Eddi|zuHause>sounds better than snow in rome ;)
01:46<goodger>"they always say it is the wrong sort of snow; our trains are brand-new, shiny machines that apparently cannot tolerate the slightest scattering of snow because it is the 'wrong sort'. in the soviet union, they have horrible clanking things that survive three-foot drifts covering the tracks in temperatures theoretically too low for humans to survive; we should import some of _that_ type of snow..."
01:50<Eddi|zuHause>what soviet union?
01:51<goodger>that book predates me slightly, and hence the breakup of the soviet union
01:51-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B80AD7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:51<goodger>I think
01:51<goodger>or maybe it was an alternate-universe type thing
01:53-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B814FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
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02:09<Moodles>wierd just about every transport company wanted me to buy them for 2 each
02:09<Moodles>$2
02:10<goodger>yes, that's because they will go bankrupt if you don't buy them
02:10<Moodles>1m worth of planes for free
02:11<Moodles>easy way to repay my loans i guess
02:11<goodger>plus $lots of bank loans that you will have to pay back
02:11<goodger>plus the continued losses that their routes are making
02:11<goodger>(unless you asset-strip)
02:11<Moodles>thats why im sending their vehicles back to service depot so i can sell them
02:12<goodger>ok... what about the bank loans?
02:12<Moodles>looks like i didnt get their bank depts
02:12<goodger>oh good.
02:13<goodger>enjoy your asset-stripping, then
02:13<Moodles>i never got asset stripping when i played with 0.5.x
02:14<goodger>probably those companies were profitable?
02:14<goodger>the ability to asset-strip has been in ottd practically forever
02:15<Moodles>im playing single player at the moment, ive made industry very low, mountains, very rough terrain.. but still seems too easy
02:16<Moodles>need to find more ways to challenge myself
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02:23<Moodles>raised sea level to max, this should make things alittle more interesting
02:23-!-ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@ip-67-205-67-52.static.privatedns.com] has joined #openttd
02:29<Alberth>Moodles: increase cost of terrain modifying
02:31<Alberth>On the other hand, making it so difficult that you cannot play any more is almost impossible, maybe you should set another goal, like connect all cities, or connect all industries, or so.
02:31-!-ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@ip-67-205-67-52.static.privatedns.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:40<Alberth>Playing with cargodest is also a good challenge; suddenly the cargo decides where it wants to go to :)
02:43-!-enra [~enra@203-206-127-131.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
02:44<enra>hi all. have a quick question for anyone that's around
02:44<enra>where can i get a copy of "total town replacement set 2"
02:57<@Rubidium>tried grfcrawler?
03:02<Moodles>ive noticed on hard, the ai doesnt do trains like it did with my old 0.5.x install.. only sem to do plane routes
03:05<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't played with AI for a decade
03:05<Eddi|zuHause>or more...
03:08<enra>yeah - grf crawler only has set 3
03:08<enra>set 3 needs set 2 installed
03:08<@Rubidium>that's odd
03:08<@Rubidium>as for me it doesn't need version 3
03:09<@Rubidium>uhm... version 2 ofcourse ;)
03:10<enra>it doesn't? the website says it does
03:10<@Rubidium>what website says it where?
03:12<enra>oh - never mind - major blond moment there - the website refers to TTD - not OTTD
03:12<enra>i just realised after reading it a few dozen times lol
03:20<Jerimiah40>lol, I've made that exact mistake :
03:21<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: the AI is a useful source of profit --- just buy up the profitable competitors...
03:22<petern>uh
03:23<petern>the AI is a 'useful' source of annoying road, annoying track, annoying terraforming, and annoying bulldozing of towns...
03:23<Moodles>AI used to compete with my heavily for coal routes
03:23<Moodles>*me
03:24<goodger>it doesn't usually terraform or bulldoze towns for me...
03:24<goodger>and once you've bought them, you can easily remove the roads and tracks that are actually annoying
03:24<petern>it doesn't if you play on flat maps
03:27-!-WhiteRino [White@modem170.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd
03:27<WhiteRino>Ah, there we go.
03:28-!-WhiteRino is now known as WhiteRhino
03:28-!-WhiteRhino is now known as AmanoJaku
03:28-!-AmanoJaku is now known as WhiteRhino
03:29<petern>We do?
03:29<goodger>apparently.
03:29<WhiteRhino>I'm new to this IRC stuff, don't mind my ramblings.
03:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i go to sleep
03:34<George>Eddi|zuHause: [05:27:19] <Eddi|zuHause> and you should suggest George to put a better understandable error message for people who are playing 0.6 and never heard of nightlies before
03:34<George>What text?
03:34<Eddi|zuHause>George: error message when ECS is loaded in too old version of openttd
03:35<George>I know what we a speaking about. I meant what text to put there?
03:35<George>5 * 11 0B 83 7F 06 "r14569" 00
03:36<Eddi|zuHause>when someone tries to load ECS beta 5 in openttd 0.6, it is not very useful to tell him "needs rXXXXX", as that person most likely has not heard of revisions, trunk or nightlies before
03:36<George>I understand what you do not like. I ask what to put instaed?
03:37<Eddi|zuHause>the only reasonable thing that i can imagine would be "0.7"
03:37<Eddi|zuHause>even if that is not out yet
03:37<@Rubidium>0.7 (rXXXXX) ?
03:37<George>Wouldn't it be more confusing?
03:38<George>Eddi|zuHause: P.S. Good morning :)
03:39<Eddi|zuHause>i was awake the whole night...
03:39<goodger>me too...
03:39<Eddi|zuHause>huge, probably carreer deciding, deadline in 2 weeks...
03:39<goodger>:S
03:39<George>Yes, new year hollidays moves the night time :)
03:39<Eddi|zuHause>and the probability for an extension is like 0,2%
03:41<George>ops. And wee have holidays here! 10 days of holidays!
03:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but holidays don't help if the thing has to be done...
03:41<WhiteRhino>If I might ask, what's the difference between the Stable and Nightly downloads?
03:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, nightlies are development builds
03:42<Eddi|zuHause>they undergo less testing, and might contain serious bugs
03:42<Eddi|zuHause>or not work at all
03:42<WhiteRhino>So stick to the Stable one, really?
03:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, they are fine usually
03:43<Eddi|zuHause>but it's not guaranteed to stay that way
03:43<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: tell that the people who trashed their savegame with articulated vehicles
03:44-!-Moodles [Tallarines@60-242-71-35.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:47<George>Eddi|zuHause, Rubidium: so, you think 0.7 (rXXXXX) would be ok for the user, who uses stable version? And if you'd realise v0.6.4, they would not work?
03:47<Eddi|zuHause>people who do not follow the development process should most likely stick to the stable. stable builds are also more useful in multiplayer
03:48<Eddi|zuHause>George: if you did the check correctly, it should not load in 0.6.4
03:48<WhiteRhino>Second question: I lost my TTD disk (it was the DOS one anyway), and torrented TTD tonight.. but the only one I could find of decent size was already patched with some other, non-OpenTTD thing. Is that potentially going to be a problem?
03:48-!-Moodles [Tallarines@60-242-71-35.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
03:48<Eddi|zuHause>George: the features that you need from the nightlies are with 99,9% probability not going to be in any possible future 0.6.x release
03:48<@Rubidium>you could also wait for the next stable release when releasing your NewGRFs, like mb seems to be doing
03:50<WhiteRhino>Ah, the one I got has TTDPatch with it.
03:50<@Rubidium>you could also check whether someone's playing a non-stable and give a different error message, though I wouldn't know what error message
03:50<George>Eddi|zuHause: Does a feature list for 0.6.4 documented anywhere?
03:50<Eddi|zuHause>WhiteRhino: a) we do not endorse illegal downloads, b) it should be fine, you only need the data files
03:51<Eddi|zuHause>George: 0.6.x builds only get bugfixes
03:51<WhiteRhino>Ah, sorry.
03:51<Eddi|zuHause>c) you could have just looked in the forums ;p
03:52<WhiteRhino>Ah.. thought the IRC channel was more the place to ask questions. Is it meant more for development stuff..?
03:53<Eddi|zuHause>the IRC channel is fine for asking questions, but most of them have been answered in the forum before
03:54<WhiteRhino>I was more hoping to hang around other people who play TTD. Promise I'll keep my questions to a minimum. =P
03:55<Eddi|zuHause>that was not what i meant
04:09-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
04:11<Wolf01>hello
04:12-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
04:15<WhiteRhino>Just downloaded OpenTTD, joining a game to watch. =D
04:20-!-darks [~darks@124.161.79.223] has joined #openttd
04:28*goodger wonders whether Wolf01 will say anything today, or merely leave
04:28-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd
04:28<goodger>"taking all bets!"
04:29<WhiteRhino>He said hello already. *points*
04:30<goodger>WhiteRhino: wolf01 is famed for saying "hello", prior to an eighteen-hour silence, at which point he says "bye" or something like it, before immediately departing
04:31<WhiteRhino>Ahh, that I didn't know.
04:32<petern>at least he has 10 fingers
04:32<petern>well, i assume
04:32<goodger>yes, hence why I pointed it out
04:32<WhiteRhino>Bah. First I find a game on a huge map that's perpetually paused, then I find a game that's unpaused but only has one person playing on it.
04:32<petern>on the other hand (hah) some people do have more than 10...
04:32<goodger>:)
04:32<WhiteRhino>People with more than ten fingers are called Psychlos. =D
04:33<yorick>you are getting the spam in, be careful
04:34<WhiteRhino>Keep something radioactive on your person; it'll explode their breathe-gas. Yorick: You mean me?
04:34<yorick>yes
04:34<goodger>breathe... gas..? wha...
04:35<WhiteRhino>Somebody needs to read Battlefield: Earth. =P
04:35<yorick>you're getting the "oh, then just visit that server ending with @clanmega.warlink.eu" kind of messages in
04:35<@Rubidium>WhiteRhino: at the moment there are about twice as many servers as clients and seldomly the number of clients exceeds the number of servers
04:35<@Rubidium>so... good luck finding an active game
04:35<petern>/kick yorick spam!
04:35<yorick>try Kurts hard goal, 8 clients
04:35<WhiteRhino>Ahh.. didn't mean to spam either. I haven't played this game in years, I'm a little giddy. >.>
04:36<yorick>http://www.openttd.org/servers ;)
04:37<petern>hmm, i could try playing a game for once
04:38<WhiteRhino>Have to find a game that's a good mix of people and whatever you'd call "not making my dialup connection weep."
04:38<yorick>you? dailup?
04:38<yorick>:D
04:39<yorick>just "don't" play mp with dailup :)
04:39<WhiteRhino>Yes, yes, dialup. The dunce-cap of the internet.
04:39<yorick>"don't" even use dailup
04:39<yorick>dailup is evil
04:40<petern>darks: that's because we don't support SDL on OSX
04:40<WhiteRhino>Carrier pidgeons don't support AIM. =)
04:40<yorick>use fiber ;)
04:40<darks>petern: ........
04:40<WhiteRhino>Ew. o.o
04:40<yorick>isn't sdl made for cross-compatibility?
04:40<yorick>WhiteRhino: adsl?
04:41<petern>actually it's because you don't have strndup, heh
04:41<petern>yorick, yeah, but our OSX porter believes it doesn't work properly on OSX.
04:41<yorick>your OSX porter is Bjarni, right?
04:41<WhiteRhino>Where I live doesn't support anything but cable, and that's freakin' expensive.
04:41<darks>petern: so which func is similar to strndup?
04:42<darks>yorick: but it's longtime no see Bjarni....
04:42<yorick>any of you actually believes bjarni?
04:43<yorick>left-click scrolling looks laggy :o
04:43<petern>darks, i don't know
04:44<yorick>maybe the pointer should hide, so that you don't see it
04:44<darks>yorick: you are a osx user too?
04:44<yorick>no
04:44<yorick>fortunatly not
04:45<darks>hehe
04:45<petern>sounds like something is defining _GNU_SOURCE when it shouldn't
05:00<darks>petern: add a func in string_func.h seems to pass the ini.cpp compiling. I don't know whether can run or not
05:01<darks>petern: it's 6pm here now. I have to go to supper now.see you later.
05:02<@Rubidium>darks, as petern already said: it's SDL that's flawed
05:03-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E256.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
05:05<petern>is SDL defining _GNU_SOURCE?
05:05<WhiteRhino>Finally decide to hop on and start playing and it'd bedtime. See you folks tomorrow maybe.
05:06<goodger>night
05:06<@Rubidium>petern: likely, as it does for MINGW (see stdafx.h)
05:06-!-OsteHovel^EEE [~OsteHovel@062016205204.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #openttd
05:06<petern>bwahaha
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05:07<yorick>there is no such thing as RotateTrackBits?
05:12<OsteHovel^EEE>my pc compiles openttd so SLOWLY...
05:12<yorick>openttd is big
05:12<@Rubidium>petern: do a sdl-config --cflags and you'll see
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05:13<OsteHovel^EEE>I like the svn version so i compile it on my linux pc then i compile the windows version there too becouse i use dedicated server and windows as a client.... maybe i can setup distcc to get it to compile faster...
05:14<yorick>http://openttd.edeca.net/hg/copypaste/file/f73d228e0e45/src/copy_paste.cpp#l1124 <-- does that line look readable and trunkable?
05:15<petern>no
05:16<yorick>readable or trunkable?
05:18-!-roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
05:18<Alberth>Rubidium, about FS#2322: current trunk doesn't merge any more. I re-did the patches against current trunk in a fresh hg repo. Bundle is at http://e.imagehost.org/download/0041/fs2322bundle
05:19-!-evandar [~evandar@213.168.176.142] has joined #openttd
05:20<Alberth>Apparently, previous time I f**ked up at patch 44_draw_row_counting.patch, fixed that.
05:21<Alberth>interested in a small apply_patches shell script? :)
05:25<@Rubidium>already got a version of that, but for committing stuff
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05:52<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14794 /trunk/src/ (settings_gui.cpp window.cpp): -Document: a few functions/variables (Alberth)
05:54<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14795 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: replace a magic number with a constant (Alberth)
05:56<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14796 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: if using variable, use it everywhere instead of hardcoding it's value sometimes (Alberth)
06:00<petern>hah
06:00<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14797 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: replace even more magic numbers with constants (Alberth)
06:04<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14798 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move variable declaration to first use of variable (Alberth)
06:04-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
06:07<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14799 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move drawing a single settings entry to it's own function (Alberth)
06:11-!-darks [~darks@124.161.79.223] has quit [Quit: darks]
06:12<Alberth>Hmm, installing a vector drawing program, and getting a spellings checker thrown in as well. What are these installers thinking?
06:12-!-evandar [~evandar@213.168.176.142] has joined #openttd
06:13<qball>Alberth: you can't have typo's in your object names
06:13-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B80A74.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
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06:14<@Rubidium>qball: then install a grammar checker too, especially for IRC
06:14<qball>Rubidium: the last one I installed committed suicide.
06:14-!-Zuu [~Zuu@c-53f3e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
06:17<edeca>omg; haha, y r u instalin' chequers?
06:18<edeca>Yes, grammar checking should be compulsory
06:19<Alberth>And they forget to install some fonts, so the program refuses to add text to my pictures. Argh!
06:23-!-dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:24<George>Rubidium: how to install grammar checker for IRC? (I have KVirc)
06:24<@Rubidium>George: I don't know
06:24<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14800 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the advanced settings window resizeable and scrollable (most by Alberth)
06:29-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
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06:51<TrueBrain>Rubidium: http://www.fastformat.org/ <- might contain useful code for strgen ;) (hehe :))
06:52<qball>hey TrueBrain
06:53<TrueBrain>I wonder where to put those gmpc plugins ..
06:54<TrueBrain>morning to you too qball
06:54<qball>compile and install
06:54<qball>C plugins.
06:54<qball>anway use the overlay
06:54-!-tom0004 [~Tom@92.1.163.11] has joined #openttd
06:58<petern>bah
06:58-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1FB5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:58-!-tom0004 [~Tom@92.1.163.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:58<yorick>now that the settings window is resizable, shouldn't the strings be truncated?
06:58<TrueBrain>hello to you too petern :)
06:59<yorick>and the tabs be nicely inline if it's big enough?
06:59<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: tried to find out how to do strgen stuff with that?
06:59<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I didn't say that ;) I said it could contain useful code :)
06:59<TrueBrain>it is one of the fastest string-replacements out there :)
07:00<@Rubidium>strgen isn't a speed problem for OpenTTD though
07:00<TrueBrain>true; still it might contain useful code :)
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07:05<qball>TrueBrain: reading freshmeat/
07:05<TrueBrain>k, enough toying around ... time to do some serious work :)
07:05<TrueBrain>qball: as always ;)
07:05*qball starts openttd
07:05<TrueBrain>Rubidium: any idea when you will have additional time for NAIL?
07:10<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: I fear that won't be before I finished my thesis :(; I'm in the process of committing some user patches to trunk and then I most likely won't be doing much there either
07:11<TrueBrain>too bad :)
07:11<TrueBrain>How is your thesis going? ;)
07:11<@Rubidium>have to start with it next week
07:11<TrueBrain>about what? :)
07:12<@Rubidium>most likely some implementation issue with aspect oriented programming; I'm not 100% sure at the moment
07:12<TrueBrain>well .. good luck :)
07:13<@Rubidium>thank you
07:13-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aejo153.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
07:14<petern>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=754301#p754301
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07:17<@Rubidium>petern: would interesting to plot TTDP's realistic acceleration too
07:17<petern>it wouldn't be much different :)
07:17<petern>but yes, i could do that
07:18<petern>hmm
07:18<@Rubidium>what's the meaning of each of the lines though?
07:18<petern>oh ,whoops
07:18<petern>that was external to the images :D
07:18<SmatZ>:-)
07:19<petern>green is tractive effort from the engine, red is resistance, and blue is effective tractive effort
07:19<petern>what i can see is that ottd's formula is too dependent on mass
07:19<petern>so that magic constant can just be turned down a bit
07:20<petern>if i increase the mass by an order of magnitude, the maximum attainable speed drops by less than 5 m/s
07:20<petern>in ottd it drops by 35 m/s
07:21<petern>this is the bit that kudr was complaining about
07:21<petern>the blue line is divided by mass to get the acceleration
07:21<petern>there's no point showing it on the graph as mass is constant, so it follows the blue line exactly
07:22<petern>so that means a heavier vehicle can get up to almost the same speed, but it will take longer to do so
07:22<petern>which, to me, sounds correct.
07:23<Zuu>hmm, having OpenTTD on highlight in #openttd is not such a good idea :p
07:23<TrueBrain>lol @ Zuu
07:24<goodger>really strange thing --- I agree with you
07:24<Zuu>Well I had "OpenTTD Auto Update" on highlight but the client decided to interpret that as three different words.
07:26<goodger>I have just done something equally stupid
07:26<qball>a bit stupid?
07:27<goodger>I found my Examination Statement of Entry, after looking for it for about 15 minutes
07:27<goodger>I found it on the wall, where I had carefully placed it to avoid losing it
07:27<TrueBrain>lol @ qball :)
07:28<petern>heh
07:31*yorick updates openttd
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07:45<petern>here we go, it works now...
07:45<petern>http://iis.fuzzle.org/default.aspx
07:46<petern>hmm, not quite right :o
07:47<petern>oh, yes it is, i just put the values in wrong, hah
07:49*SmatZ likes charts :)
07:50<TrueBrain>hello SmatZ :)
07:50<petern>heh
07:50<petern>if you put a very high mass in, you can see ottd's kick off looking very odd :)
07:51<SmatZ>hello TrueBrain :)
07:51<petern>especially up a slope
07:51<petern>put 0.03 in for ottd's slopes
07:51<petern>that's another thing, ttdpatch uses 5% not 3% for slopes
07:52<petern>which makes a huge difference
07:52<qball>2%
07:52<petern>visually they are 50% ;)
07:52<TrueBrain>10 / 10000 / 10000 / 0.03 <- that gives a nice OTTD graphs :)
07:53<petern>lol
07:53<petern>10kN TE is pretty tricky with 10kg mass...
07:53<TrueBrain>;)
07:53<TrueBrain>still .. it goes all red and blue :p
07:54<petern>yeah
07:56<TrueBrain>I forgot to bring my DVI cable ... now I am down to one screen .. bleh :(
07:56<TrueBrain>oh well
07:56<petern>right, i shall add ttdpatch's model
07:57<petern>and possibly original...
07:57<petern>which kudr said was the most realistic, hahah
07:57<TrueBrain>LOL!
07:57<TrueBrain>he really said that? :)
07:57<qball>original is annoying to play
07:57<petern>yes
07:57<TrueBrain>how silly :)
07:57<qball>the train come to a emergency halt on all up slopes
07:58<petern>actually i won't model it because it doesn't use any values like that
07:58<petern>it's just power/mass..., so...
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08:14<joachim>hmm
08:14<joachim>expanding is really hard with cargodest
08:17-!-OsteHovel^EEE [~OsteHovel@062016205204.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:17<TrueBrain>that is the idea ;)
08:17<joachim>yup
08:18<joachim>but having smaller stations far out in the network doesn't seem to work well
08:19-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
08:19<qball>not cashing in by transporting coal from one corner to the other
08:20<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14801 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: don't reference Vehicle::num_orders directly but through a method GetNumOrders() (PhilSophus)
08:21<joachim>im just doing pax/mail for now
08:22<qball>cool if I connect to cibbex1 my openttd locks up hard
08:22<qball>can only killall -9
08:23<qball>[EN/NL] Cibbet 1
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08:27<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14802 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt saveload.cpp): -Fix [FS#2490]: "(undefined string)" in default savegame/screenshot names when there's no company in the game.
08:30<petern>someone's on a spree today
08:36-!-insulfrog [~trainslov@92.21.43.176] has joined #openttd
08:36<insulfrog>hi all
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08:40<TrueBrain>hello insulfrog
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08:45-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
08:46<TrueBrain>morning glx
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08:52<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14803 /trunk/src/ (12 files): -Codechange: move order list management into it's own class and remove the order count from the savegame as we can easily count that (PhilSophus)
08:53<petern>its!
08:53*petern puts a max rated speed line in
08:53<petern>rated -> operational
08:55*Rubidium blames the English for inconsistency
08:59<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14804 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify opening the OSK (Zuu)
08:59<Zuu>Rubidium: Thanks
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09:11<petern>we ought to increase slopes....
09:12<petern>3% is a lot, but not when only a 1/5th of a train is on it
09:12<insulfrog>I have a bit of a question, in the latest ttdpatch nightly, I am having trouble making this GRF from here -> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=634134#p634134 work. I have put the GRF in the 'Newgrf' folder but there is an extra PCX file called 'jsignals_2.pcx' with a jsignals.nfo (which can't be read for some reason). Where do I put this 'jsignals_2.pcx'?
09:12<TrueBrain>channel name: #openttd
09:12<TrueBrain>question related to: ttdpatch
09:12<TrueBrain>doesn't feel right ...
09:12<petern>you don't need those pcx and nfo files, they're just the source of the grf
09:12<insulfrog>ah
09:13<insulfrog>Also, have I put the 'jsignals.grf' in the right area?
09:14<petern>that i don't know
09:14<petern>did you add it to your newgrf.cfg?
09:14*insulfrog checks
09:14<insulfrog>yes
09:16<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14805 /trunk/src/bridge_gui.cpp: -Feature [FS#2238]: pressing CTRL while dragging to build a bridge build the last built bridge type if possible (planetmaker)
09:17<petern>did you enable whatever patch options are needed for that feature?
09:17<@Rubidium>are there patch options for that?
09:18<petern>there're patch options for everything...
09:20<insulfrog>I believe its part of the 'experimentalfeatures.signalgui' setting (which is on)
09:21<@Rubidium>ah... you didn't reply on my commit... then your statements makes a lot more sense
09:22<petern>heh, no
09:23<insulfrog>hmm, does this option -> 'newsignals=on' has anything to do with the problem?
09:23<petern>insulfrog, okay, then i don't know anything more. best off asking ttdpatch people
09:24<insulfrog>is there a seperate IRC channel for ttdpatch or just post the question in the forums?
09:24<petern>there's #tycoon but it's not very often on topic
09:24<petern>best off in the forums
09:25<insulfrog>ok :)
09:28<TrueBrain>bleh, you can't write at a random place in a file when opening with mode "ab"? :s
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09:33<TrueBrain>so you can't append to a file while keeping the ability to walk through the file .. how lovely :s
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09:34<SmatZ>TrueBrain: "r+" ?
09:34<Alberth>TrueBrain: well, you can't write at any place if you specified you wanted to append :) Maybe use 'w+b' instead (iirc)
09:34<TrueBrain>SmatZ: then you can't write at the end of the file
09:35<TrueBrain>Alberth: "w+" truncates file
09:35-!-yorick [~Yorick@82-171-205-190.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
09:35<TrueBrain>"wa" does seem to work .. (but is not really POSIX)
09:35<TrueBrain>hmm .. no, "wa" also truncates
09:36<TrueBrain>weird shit ..... with no clear reason why this is not allowed :(
09:36<SmatZ>can you use open() instead?
09:38<TrueBrain>I can at least try ..
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09:40<Alberth>TrueBrain: "rwb" does not truncate
09:41<Alberth>but you have to move the write pointer to the end yourself :)
09:41<TrueBrain>segfaults ..
09:43<Alberth>not here. Unfortunately I have no copy of K&R here :(
09:43<TrueBrain>ah, the return value in that case is always NULL ;)
09:43<TrueBrain>k, fixed that ... but no appending possible
09:43<TrueBrain>you can only write within the segment that is already there
09:44<Alberth>fseek to end, and write (usually)
09:44<TrueBrain>doesn't help :)
09:44<TrueBrain>(as that was already there)
09:45<TrueBrain>ftell(), fwrite(), ftell()
09:45<TrueBrain>first and last ftell give same value
09:45<TrueBrain>;)
09:46<Alberth>I really need K&R :) ok, "rw+b" works here
09:46<TrueBrain>that indeed does
09:46<TrueBrain>not "rwb"
09:46<TrueBrain>so you didn't really tested it before you told me it works ;)
09:46<Alberth>I tested whether you could write in the file ;)
09:48<TrueBrain>k, tnx, appears to work :)
09:48<TrueBrain>silly fopen :(
09:48<SmatZ>"rwb" as well as "rw+b" has undefined behaviour
09:48<TrueBrain>SmatZ: it indeed is far from POSIX ;)
09:49<insulfrog>hmm, I'm not sure what I've done but the problem I had is now fixed :)
09:49<petern>i find it amusing that it accepts those parameters as an array of chars instead of bit flags...
09:50<TrueBrain>I agree with petern :)
09:50<petern>and i am attempting to unravel ttdpatch's acceleration code
09:50<petern>asm is not nice :p
09:51<Alberth>petern: they were bit flags in open(), and they are again in ofstream
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09:57<TrueBrain>yeah, now I have files with border-coordinates of all countries ..... now I need to overlay that on the maps .. pff ... :p
09:57<SmatZ>TrueBrain: http://paste.openttd.org/178411 works very fine... if tst.txt exists
09:58<TrueBrain>SmatZ: let me try ..
09:58<TrueBrain>when trying that, I forgot to check if the result was NULL, so it segfaulted on that :)
09:58<TrueBrain>(which made me think it failed on tthe first one ;))
09:59<SmatZ>:)
09:59<TrueBrain>yup, works :)
09:59<TrueBrain>tnx!
09:59<SmatZ>you are welcome :)
10:00<SmatZ>http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG14/www/docs/n1256.pdf ;-)
10:00<SmatZ>C99 draft
10:01<petern>ah, ttdpatch uses kN/256
10:02<petern>so i need to multiply by s.omething silly to get N
10:02<goodger>0.256
10:03<petern>is that like your eleventh finger?
10:03<goodger>no, that's simple algebra
10:03<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r14806 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix: MarkAllViewportsDirty() didn't mark dirty whole area when zoomed out, visible by aircraft leaving trails sometimes
10:03<TrueBrain>I think he is a bit off again
10:03<petern>he is :)
10:04<SmatZ>@calc 1/256
10:04<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 0.00390625
10:04<SmatZ>ar....
10:04*SmatZ hides
10:04<TrueBrain>hmm .. I should get some dinner .. but it is freezing outside ...
10:04<petern>@calc 1000/256 to get N
10:04<@DorpsGek>petern: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
10:04<petern>er
10:04<petern>yeah :p
10:04<petern>@calc 1000/256
10:04<@DorpsGek>petern: 3.90625
10:04<petern>to get to N
10:04<goodger>if Y = 1000X/256, then X = Y*256/1000 = 0.256Y
10:05<TrueBrain>goodger's math is fundumantally flawed ...
10:05<TrueBrain>good to know
10:05<TrueBrain>last night was not a random mistake :)
10:06<goodger>sorry, what part of that is wrong?
10:06<goodger>I just applied the basic algebra I learned aged eleven
10:06<TrueBrain>nuff said
10:07<goodger>¬.¬
10:07<goodger>I'm just not going to talk in here any more
10:07<TrueBrain>that might be better for your ego, yes
10:07<SmatZ>1 unit = 1000N / 256 = 0.256 N ... so 1 N = 1 unit / 0.256
10:08<petern>goodger, google
10:08<SmatZ>now I am as bad as goodger :-x
10:08<TrueBrain>SmatZ: yup :p
10:08<petern>http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=kN/256+to+N
10:08<SmatZ>@calc 1/0.256
10:08<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 3.90625
10:08<SmatZ>ah it's the same, ok :)
10:08<SmatZ>shame :-x
10:09<petern>SmatZ: yeah but 0.256Y is not the same as Y/0.256
10:10<thingwath>Y/0.256 is something like 4Y, I hope :o)
10:10<TrueBrain>SmatZ: I am glad you relased you were caluclating N, not 'unit' ;)
10:11<petern>thingwath...
10:11<petern>the figure 3.90625 was just above
10:11<@Rubidium>goodger: you wanted to calculate YX = 1000X/256 -> Y = 1000/256 -> Y = 3.90...
10:12<TrueBrain>Rubidium: there is no fun in showing his fundumantal flaw :(
10:12<qball>h ah a ha
10:13<TrueBrain>I am just considering the amount of fun answers you can give, applying goodger's math
10:13<TrueBrain>2Y = 1000X/256 ... so 0.128Y
10:13<qball>life is a bitch aint it
10:13<TrueBrain>I think I can come up with any amount of answer, which still holds :)
10:15<TrueBrain>I wonder what he would have said when the question was:
10:15<TrueBrain>kN/0.5
10:15<TrueBrain>would that have given '5' as answer?
10:15<@Rubidium>like km/3600s = 3.6m/s
10:16<@Rubidium>hmm... actually
10:16<@Rubidium>... like km/3600s = 3.6ms
10:16<goodger>sorry, I don't follow how that's wrong. divide by 2 on both sides to get Y = 1000X/128, then divide 1000 by 128 to get Y = 7.8125X, then divide both sides by 7.8125 to get X = Y/7.8125 = Y * 1/7.8125 = 0.128Y
10:17<TrueBrain>goodger: one useful tip: in no system dividing something by X gives as answer 0.X ...
10:17<TrueBrain>(just a thumbrule)
10:17<goodger>er, I didn't divide by X
10:17<goodger>are you reading the same thing as I type?
10:18<TrueBrain>I doubt you ever read the question
10:18<goodger>quarplibrarblem
10:18<TrueBrain>well ... that sure explains a few things :)
10:18<goodger>TrueBrain: you said that 2Y = 1000X/256 resolving to 0.128Y was wrong. I went through it very thoroughly and I can't find any error in my algebra
10:19<goodger>would you care to point out the specific error in my algebra?
10:19<@Rubidium>goodger: the major problem is that you AGAIN are failing to properly read and understand the question
10:19<TrueBrain>I never said your statement was wrong
10:19<TrueBrain>I just said your statement was fundamantally flawed
10:19<@Rubidium>the specific error is the text->math conversion which is fundamentally flawed
10:19<TrueBrain>and pointed out that in your math-world, any amount of answers would hold
10:20<goodger>yes, I reread the _original_ question, in which I reversedly-converted kilonewtons to newtons by dividing by 1000
10:20<goodger>and then you supplied an example of a maths problem and an answer that was supposed to be totally ludicrous based on my logic
10:20<goodger>but my answer was correct
10:20<TrueBrain>I am sure that in some subset of the world you are correct
10:20<goodger>or rather, that answer
10:21<TrueBrain>just it wasn't any answer petern was asking for :)
10:21<@Rubidium>you want to know how many N one kN/256 is. To calculate you do NOT use Y = 1000N/256, but you use YN = 1000N/256 (as N is on both sides of the equation, or not... as it's just a "type name")
10:21<goodger>yes, in the subset of the world that you supplied as being absolutely patently incorrect, I was correct
10:21<@Rubidium>so your Y = 1000X/256 should've been Y = 1000/256 (or YX = 1000X/256)
10:21<TrueBrain>Rubidium: nah, in his world N holds a true value which can be redused to primes :)
10:21<petern>:o
10:22<TrueBrain>I think Newton would die if he hadn't already, by reading this :)
10:22<TrueBrain>haha :)
10:22<goodger>I am opposed to being supplied with examples of foolishly incorrect maths that I might produce that are, in fact, correct
10:22<TrueBrain>nobody debated your math; just the origin of your math
10:22<TrueBrain>hence the: fundamentally flawed, part :)
10:23<goodger>and Rubidium: the original problem was to find the value of X, namely the number of newtons, given Y which was the number of kilonewtons multiplied by 256
10:23<goodger>to solve that problem, an X is required in the equation
10:23<@Rubidium>goodger: that's where you're wrong
10:23<TrueBrain>'/' and '*' are indeed both multiplications :)
10:24<goodger>sorry.. what?
10:24<petern>the full equation is XN = YkN/256
10:24<TrueBrain>yeah, that was what I was asking myself :)
10:24<goodger>in the version of mathematics I was taught, / is division
10:24<petern>XN = Y*1000N/256 -> X = Y*1000/256
10:25<TrueBrain>so again we have 4 people who agree on something ... and one person not agree'ing ... how nice is that :)
10:25<@Rubidium>DEJA VU
10:25<petern>that's not fair
10:25<petern>some people do have 11 or 12 fingers
10:25<TrueBrain>+1 for petern :)
10:25<goodger>wait
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10:26<qball>ha ha ha ha
10:26<TrueBrain>at least I have to give goodger credit ... he does stand for what he believes :p
10:27<TrueBrain>still nowhere in the equations my food-supply problem was solved ...
10:27<goodger>TrueBrain: rather, I am simply trying to indicate that the "fantasyland" equation and solution you constructed was, in fact, correct
10:27<goodger>and I resent you insulting me with it
10:28<qball>It is bitter
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10:29<TrueBrain>maybe after that reboot, his math does add up ... :p
10:29<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: http://www.thuisbezorgd.nl/restaurant/Lion-Pizza ?
10:29<qball>cruel cruel world
10:30*Rubidium wants a "peace of cake" ;)
10:30<TrueBrain>lol @ Rubidium, for even finding the right place :p
10:30<TrueBrain>but yeah, I was considering pizza ...
10:30-!-Wolle [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0CF23.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:30*Rubidium really wonders what a "peace of cake" is
10:31<TrueBrain>miss holland in a cake?
10:31<@Rubidium>ieuw
10:31<TrueBrain>a nasty nasty typo ....
10:32<TrueBrain>I think I will call them and ask what it is :p
10:32<qball>no no
10:32<@Rubidium>"kunt u my vertellen wat een vrede van cake is?"
10:32<qball>let Rubidium call
10:32<TrueBrain>it is Ben & Jerry :p
10:32<TrueBrain>they always have silly things :)
10:33<TrueBrain>anyway, I do wonder why goodger was insulted ... I was just making fun of him ... oh well :)
10:34<yorick>your fun consists out of beating and kicking people.
10:34<yorick>:)
10:35<Zuu>Wow WidgetFocus patch has went from 900+ rows to 620 rows, by the commit of unified open osk patch. :-)
10:35<petern>ah, yorick
10:35<petern>please make some stupid statement for us to mock
10:38<Zuu>Though I have about 3 functions to write documentation for, but probably not 100 rows per function :p
10:41<yorick>if I want to zero + resize an array, should I use zeroarraysomehow + ReallocT or free + CallocT?
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10:47<petern>why would you want to zero it?
10:48<yorick>heh
10:49<yorick>nvm
10:49<SpComb>just use FragmentT(n, b) which allocates n blocks of b bytes which are distributed as evenly as possible over the current heap region
10:50<SpComb>(ok, bad example)
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10:50<petern>create lots of 1 byte files
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11:00<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41260 O_O wtf?
11:02<yorick>hack more than just a little bit :p
11:02<petern>horrible hack, indeed
11:02<yorick>invisible tunnels
11:03<Wolf01>warp tunnels
11:03<petern>and yet another case of a patch doing more than one thing at a time
11:04<Wolf01>agreed
11:06<TrueBrain>lol
11:07<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r14807 /trunk/src/ (15 files): -Codechange: use INVALID_TILE instead of 0 to mark invalid depots, industries, towns and waypoints
11:07<Aali>so how does that patch work anyway? I haven't tried it
11:07<petern>uglily i bet
11:07<Wolf01>it allows you to build stargates in your map
11:07<yorick>"The philosophy behind it is that I see tunnels as depots."
11:07<yorick>:D
11:08<yorick>using ctrl, it allows you to skip one exit and go to the other one
11:08<Wolf01>or depots as tunnels
11:08<yorick>I like to see depots as tunnels, not the other way aroud :)
11:08<yorick>around*
11:08<Aali>so, basically, trains go in on one end and come out the other, possibly out of order?
11:08<yorick>they can't even crash inside a tunnel
11:09<yorick>yes
11:09<TrueBrain>so I ordered pizza ...... hmm ... /me hungry :)
11:09<Aali>eugh
11:09-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E256.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
11:09<petern>mmm pizza
11:09<yorick>and maybe even multiple at the time :p
11:12<Prof_Frink>Multiple pizza?
11:12<TrueBrain>pizza for everyone!
11:12<Aali>maybe its not such a bad idea after all
11:12<TrueBrain>order one yourself :)
11:12<Aali>but you should of course keep trains in order and not allow more trains than will fit in the tunnel
11:14<Aali>and the whole separate exit/entrance teleport thing has to go
11:15<yorick>the patch is only activated with the crossing tunnels cheat
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11:15<petern>heh
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11:28<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r14808 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r1): coal mine subsidence could wrap around map edges
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11:30<Skyruner2>Why does the following code always show STR_FEEDER even if i know (via live debugging) that msg ist set to a different string?
11:30<Skyruner2>StringID msg = STR_FEEDER; SetDParam(0, vehicle); if (income != 0) { if(income == vehicle){ StringID msg = STR_0803_INCOME; SetDParam(0, income); }else{ StringID msg = STR_FEEDER_INCOME; SetDParam(1, income); } } AddTextEffect(msg, pt.x, pt.y, 0x250, TE_RISING);
11:31<SmatZ>because your msg has different scope
11:31<SmatZ>I wonder your compiler doesn't complain
11:31<Skyruner2>argh
11:31<Skyruner2>lol
11:31<Skyruner2>\me is an idiot
11:31<SmatZ>:-P
11:32*thingwath too!
11:32<thingwath>:o)
11:32<SmatZ>:-P
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11:35<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14809 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r14802): forgotten !
11:37-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
11:37*yorick looks for ways to catch the error MallocT gives
11:37<TrueBrain>hmm .. that pizza tasted goood!!!
11:39-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
11:40<yorick>meh, it is not a fatal error if you can't reserve enough memory!
11:41<yorick>it's just unfortunate for the user :p
11:41<petern>it is pretty fatal
11:42<yorick>not always, just "can't copy area...out of memory" should do
11:42<petern>unless, i suppose, you wanted to allocate 60 thousand jiggabytes
11:43<petern>have you ever got an error from MallocT, using sensible values?
11:43<yorick>31 megabytes
11:43<yorick>heh, it's not my fault if the user wants to duplicate a 2048x2048 map with less than 64MB RAM
11:45<yorick>(and they want that)
11:47<edeca>yorick: Not you!
11:47<yorick>yes, me too
11:47<yorick>but not with less than 64MB RAM
11:53-!-mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:54<TrueBrain>copy/paste is stupid anyway
11:54<yorick>why that?
11:54<TrueBrain>spoils the game on so many levels ..
11:55<yorick>so you want to move your junction 3 tiles to the left manually?
11:55<TrueBrain>or not move it at all
11:55<TrueBrain>most fun I had was to restruct a running junction, evne more in the coop games
11:55<TrueBrain>reconstruct
11:56<TrueBrain>haha
11:56<TrueBrain>it is an art to do that
11:56<yorick>and the stations you need to make bigger :)
11:56<TrueBrain>using some kind of copy/paste shit for it .. well .. it spoils the game
11:56<TrueBrain>for the same reason I am against cooperative AIs, which 'help' you with your network
11:59<yorick>you don't *have* to use it ;)
11:59<TrueBrain>it is not that ... it is the idea of others using that (in MP), which spoils the game for me
12:00<yorick>you can disable it on the server :p
12:00<TrueBrain>yeah ... right ...
12:00<TrueBrain>lol
12:00<TrueBrain>you have no idea how easy it is to 'hack' such things ..
12:00<TrueBrain>but okay :)
12:01<yorick>and then anyone could enable it back again :)
12:01<yorick>just commenting out 2 lines and it works again :/
12:02<yorick>might need another way to do it in MP
12:02<yorick>like transfering the whole template somehow
12:03<petern>server-side copy & paste? heh
12:04<yorick>and maybe download to the clients
12:04<TrueBrain>bleh .. I am going to play Left 4 Dead ;)
12:06<Skyruner2>hehe whats your steam account name?
12:09<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14810 /trunk/src/ (music.cpp music.h music_gui.cpp strings.cpp): -Codechange: use the proper style for global variables.
12:10<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14811 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Fix: off-by-one causing possible out-of-bounds reads.
12:12<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r14812 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use INVALID_TILE instead of 0 to mark company without HQ
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12:18<Skyruner2>how do i create a patch /diff file with hg?
12:18<@Rubidium>hg diff?
12:28<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14813 /trunk/src/ (order_base.h order_cmd.cpp os2.cpp): -Codechange: use uint instead of 'just' unsigned.
12:30<edeca>Rubidium: I'm looking at the copypaste patch, it currently has save/load in saveload.cpp but doesn't really use any of the functions. Would it be sensible to move it into copy_paste.cpp and handle everything there?
12:33<@Rubidium>do whatever's best
12:34<edeca>Rubidium: Is there a chance of it getting into trunk if written properly?
12:35<@Rubidium>there's always a chance
12:35<yorick>heh, bad choice to ask Rubidium anything :p
12:35<+glx>the opposite is also true
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12:38<Monkeyman1>hi
12:39<SmatZ>hello
12:41<Monkeyman1>how can I use these: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/32bpp_graphics_development_tracker
12:42<Monkeyman1>in openttd?
12:42<Monkeyman1>aka package them that I can use them...
12:43<+glx>pngcodec them (if not already done), then rename them, then put them in a tar
12:43<Monkeyman1>how can I see the name that its supposed to have...
12:44<Monkeyman1>you mean like 1321.png or something like that right?
12:44<+glx>yes
12:44<Monkeyman1>how can I identify what the name is? since I need to replace the old one...
12:44<+glx>decode original grf with grfcodec
12:44-!-sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
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12:45<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>how am I supposed to install the damn thing
12:46<Monkeyman1>ah thank you... I have been trying to figure that out for about two hours :)
12:46-!-evandar [~evandar@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
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12:46<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>I tried it with sudo apt-get install openttd
12:46<yorick>and what did it say?
12:47<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>tried it with package reader
12:47<yorick>and what did it say?
12:47<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>hang on, its giving me different messages now
12:47-!-tom0004 [~Tom@92.1.163.11] has quit [Quit: http://www.chogie.eu]
12:47<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>gonna see what they come up with
12:47<yorick>could not find trg1r.grf?
12:47<Monkeyman1>can I use the linux grfcodec from mac os x?
12:48<+glx>may work but I won't bet on it
12:49<Monkeyman1>damn I dont wanna turn on my other computer :P
12:49<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>I made a directory and transferred the files stated#
12:49<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>but still not working
12:49<yorick>PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn: what does it say?
12:49<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>nothing
12:49<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>nothing happens
12:49-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B80A74.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:50<+glx>try in a console
12:50<Alberth>Monkeyman1: build a new one from the source
12:50<yorick>"getting different messages now"?
12:50<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>came up with a message about needing files transferred over
12:51<Zuu>What did it say? Did it say a specific path they should be placed in?
12:51<Monkeyman1>Alberth, I might actually do that because the pngcodec did not work either
12:51<Monkeyman1>I tried in the terminal...
12:52<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>data files neededx
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12:52<Alberth>Monkeyman1: is there any other place you can work than in a terminal? :P
12:52<qball>hmmm is maarten of the servers here?
12:52<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>for its operation openttd needs data files from the original transport tycoon deluxe game
12:52<Monkeyman1>Alberth, no idea is there? :P
12:52<Zuu>PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn: Yes, but most likely the apt package want the data-files at a specific location to find them.
12:53<+glx>PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn: that's the standard readme
12:53<+glx>and it should tell where you need to put files
12:53<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>see the usr/share/doc/openttd/readme.debian file for more details about the needed files and their location
12:53<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>but theres no readme file
12:53<Zuu>if the apt package looks for them (I didn't knew the apt package did that)
12:54<+glx>just put them in ~/.openttd/data
12:54<@Rubidium>PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn: the preceding / is important and so is proper capitalisation
12:54<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>missed that
12:54<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>typing on another PC
12:55-!-Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0EBFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:56<Alberth>PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/readme.txt
12:57<+glx>or http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/os/debian/README.Debian
12:57<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>the onlt thing is the directory is under my user name
12:57<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>did mkdir openttd
12:57<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>#and then coppied the files into a folder marked data
12:58<+glx>it's ".openttd" not "openttd"
12:58<Zuu>PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn: there are at least one GPL licensed program that let you share keyboard, mouse and copy/paste between computers on a safe LAN. Which might be of help for you.
13:00-!-Clinically_Insane [~Madman@88-109-251-165.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd
13:00<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>ok, just logged on on the other PC
13:00<PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn>can paste what I get direct that way
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13:01<Clinically_Insane>if I restart all of this
13:02<Clinically_Insane>deleteding the .openttd folder
13:02<Clinically_Insane>and starting a complete reinstall
13:03<Clinically_Insane>do I make this folder first??
13:03<Zuu>making .openttd?
13:04<Clinically_Insane>obviously i'm screwing up somewhere along the lines of this installation
13:05<Zuu>I would say it doesn't matter when you make .openttd. But I've not used any package manager ever to install OpenTTD.
13:05<Clinically_Insane>so wondering where it is and how to get past it
13:05<Zuu>What do you do, and what issues do you get?
13:05<Clinically_Insane>I tried installing via sudo apt-get openttd
13:05<Clinically_Insane>and it says about the files and thats it
13:05-!-gynter [~gynter@78-28-73-104.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has joined #openttd
13:06<mrfrenzy>Clinically_Insane: easiest is to just put the data files in /usr/share/games/openttd/data
13:06<Clinically_Insane>should explain I'm new to linux, only been using it for a day now
13:06<mrfrenzy>that directory shoiuld be created automatically when you install the game
13:06<Clinically_Insane>ok/i'll open that
13:07<+glx>you need sudo to change this dir
13:07<Monkeyman1>glx, when putting the png into the tar should I add it sprites/trg1r/*.png
13:09<Clinically_Insane>http://pastebin.com/d29533992
13:10<gynter>wtf
13:10<gynter>i can't find grf nfo wiki docs anymore :S
13:11<+glx>wiki.ttdpatch.net
13:11<Clinically_Insane>ive got a openttd file in /usr/share/games, but notm a directory
13:11<gynter>uhu
13:11<gynter>great, why did I think that i saw it in openttd wiki...
13:11<Zuu>Clinically_Insane: Just checked with my lenny (debian) box and it also uses 0.6.2-R1 in apt. If you intend to play multiplayer I suggest you install 0.6.3 instead.
13:12<gynter>hmh. Long Vechiles 4 replaces some trams, thats not good
13:12<Clinically_Insane>apt-get remove then download 0.6.3 and install with package manager??
13:13<Zuu>remove openttd with apt-get.
13:13<Zuu>If there is a .deb for 0.6.3 you can use it.
13:13<gynter>why you need a deb?
13:13<@Rubidium>Zuu: there's one on the openttd website
13:14<gynter>hmh odd, i have 0.6.3-1 repos
13:14<@Rubidium>or use the one from debian sid
13:15<Zuu>Yep, saw there is one deb for etch and one for lenny.
13:15<Monkeyman1>what program can I use to make tar files?
13:15<Clinically_Insane>downloading and installing 0.6.3
13:15<Zuu>Monkeyman1: tar
13:15<Clinically_Insane>For its operation, OpenTTD needs the data files from the original Transport Tycoon Deluxe game.
13:15<Clinically_Insane>See the /usr/share/doc/openttd/README.Debian file for more details about the needed files and their location.
13:15<Clinically_Insane>again
13:15<+glx>yes and it's ok
13:16<Zuu>Yep, and you have placed the files there?
13:16<Clinically_Insane>not yet as theres no folder to put them in
13:16<Zuu>Then all you should do is to execute openttd
13:16<+glx>just put them in ~/.openttd/data
13:16<Monkeyman1>Zuu, what do you mean? thats the name of the program?
13:16<Clinically_Insane>do i need to create a folder in /usr/share/games/
13:17<+glx>Clinically_Insane: <+glx> just put them in ~/.openttd/data
13:17<Zuu>Unless you have many users ~/.openttd/data works even better I would say.
13:17<Zuu>As you have write permission to put downloaded extra grfs there if you want.
13:17<Clinically_Insane>theres only 3-4 users on this pc
13:17<Clinically_Insane>that said
13:17<Clinically_Insane>i've just found the folder
13:18<Clinically_Insane>copy/pasting the extra files now
13:18<gynter>Monkeyman1, yes
13:18<Zuu>Monkeyman1: on linux there is a program that is named "tar" you can find tar.exe in some unix-kits for windows. Or you can check 7zip. 7zip at least unzips .tar.gz files.
13:19<gynter>Monkeyman1, http://lantech.geekvenue.net/chucktips/jason/chuck/994016279/index_html
13:19<Clinically_Insane>its not letting me paste the files in
13:19<+glx>you need to do it with sudo
13:20<Clinically_Insane>whats the command for that
13:20<Zuu>put sudo before your desired comand
13:20<+glx>sudo cp trg*.grf /usr/...
13:20<Zuu>or just use the command su to become super-user.
13:21<Monkeyman1>I am on mac os x or on vista... and I cant find a program that encodes to tar
13:21<+glx>on mac I'm quite sure there is tar
13:21<+glx>on vista you can use 7-zip
13:21<Monkeyman1>extracting yes but encoding I cant find it
13:21<Zuu>Monkeyman1: tar is an archive format, not something openttd has invented for image encoding.
13:22<+glx>tar is a very old format :)
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13:22<Zuu>glx: Indeed :)
13:22<Clinically_Insane>ben@ben-desktop:~$ sudo cp tgr1.grf /usr/share/games/openttd/data
13:22<Clinically_Insane>cp: cannot stat `tgr1.grf': No such file or directory
13:22<Monkeyman1>Zuu, I know..
13:23<+glx>Clinically_Insane: trg != tgr
13:23<Skyruner2>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=39161&p=754352#p754352
13:23<+glx>Clinically_Insane: use TAB key to autocomplete filenames
13:24<+glx>you may need to do ./tr<TAB>
13:24<Clinically_Insane>is it due to them being on the cd still??
13:24<+glx>not a problem
13:25<+glx>you misstyped the filename :)
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13:25<Clinically_Insane>the first time
13:25<Clinically_Insane>when I tried it with the correct filename same thing
13:25-!-Skyruner2 [~Skyruner2@ip-88-153-190-45.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd
13:26<+glx>hmm looks like DOS cd, so names are in caps
13:26<+glx>so TRG1.GRF
13:26<Clinically_Insane>the names aren't displayed in caps here
13:27-!-yorick_ [~Yorick@82-171-205-190.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
13:27<Zuu>so you can see them in your home directory when you do a "ls" with lower case?
13:27<Alberth>to be on the safe side: ls ~
13:28<Monkeyman1>thanks 7-zip worsk :D
13:28<Monkeyman1>works:D
13:28<Zuu>Monkeyman1: Nice
13:30<CIA-9>OpenTTD: translators * r14814 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:30<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-03 18:29:54
13:30<CIA-9>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 9 fixed by khaloofah (9)
13:30<CIA-9>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 9 fixed by tucalipe (9)
13:30<CIA-9>OpenTTD: dutch - 9 fixed by Excel20 (9)
13:30<CIA-9>OpenTTD: french - 10 fixed, 1 changed by glx (11)
13:30<CIA-9>OpenTTD: hebrew - 31 fixed by EScake (31)
13:30<Clinically_Insane>got it sorted
13:30<Clinically_Insane>all files transfered
13:31<Clinically_Insane>copied them to a folder in /home
13:31<Clinically_Insane>then copied them from there to the data file
13:31<Clinically_Insane>whats the music file
13:31<Clinically_Insane>is that the gm.cat??
13:31<Prof_Frink>sample.cat
13:32<+glx>DOS version => no music
13:32<Clinically_Insane>ok
13:32<+glx>openttd doesn't know how to use gm.cat
13:32<Clinically_Insane>it works
13:32<Clinically_Insane>thanks for the help
13:33<TrueBrain>that will be 5 euros; don't worry, we will send you a bill ;)
13:33<TrueBrain>(hehe)
13:33-!-Clinically_Insane [~Madman@88-109-251-165.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:33<+glx>at least he's polite :)
13:33<TrueBrain>true :)
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13:34-!-evandar [~evandar@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Conversation terminated]
13:34<TrueBrain>[18:06] <Skyruner2> hehe whats your steam account name? <- I have an xbox :)
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13:42<TrueBrain>bad timing :p
13:42<Zuu>Compiling OpenTTD on 1,33 GHz / 256kB L2 cache is so sloooow :(
13:43<TrueBrain>don't worry; it is slow on any machine ;)
13:43<+glx>define slow :)
13:44<TrueBrain>longer than I would want to wait :)
13:44<+glx>and compare it with time needed for a MSVC release build
13:44<Zuu>well, on a 2.0+ GHz you at least get about double speed.
13:44<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r14815 /trunk/ (12 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: separate 'highscore' code from 'company' code
13:44<Zuu>yea, MSVC release is not fun..
13:49-!-yorick_ is now known as yorick
13:50<gynter>is it possible to define a value with action6 which will be the first ID of vechile and other IDs will be incremented from the action6 value?
13:51<gynter>if I define action6 value as 44 then first is 44, second 45, third 46 etc, but if i define action6 as 43, then first is 43, second 44, third 45 etc
13:52<petern>uh
13:52<petern>TrueBrain: 15 seconds isn't very long
13:54<petern>gynter, why bother?
13:54<gynter>for replacement
13:55<petern>well
13:55<petern>if you code the nfo properly, vehicle IDs will automatically be sequential
13:55<gynter>eq, If I have a grf, which replaces roadv 44 to 4A and another one which replaces 44 to 4A, but I want this another one to replace 4B to 51
13:56<TrueBrain>petern: show-off ;)
13:56<gynter>so I could define the other start ID as grf action6 value
13:57<petern>what you want to do is:
13:57<petern>if (other grf active)
13:57<petern>set param blah to id-offset
13:57<petern>then use action 6 to apply that offset to all your action 0/3/4s where needed
13:58<gynter>exactly
14:00<petern>so..?
14:00<gynter>i don't know how to do this :)
14:00<gynter>otherwise I wouldn't ask :P
14:00<petern>hmm, but that is how you do it...
14:01<petern>action 7, action D and action 6
14:01<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/image014.png <- it already shows the boarders :)
14:01<petern>borders, eh?
14:01<TrueBrain>lol
14:01<gynter>GlobalID offset?
14:01<+glx>thin blue lines :)
14:01<TrueBrain>I wanted to type boundaries :)
14:02<petern>that map needs the 'non-sea edges' patch
14:02<SmatZ>http://www.openttd.org/server/118 "Current date: 31355-07-31" 8-)
14:02<TrueBrain>petern: yup
14:02<TrueBrain>but soon it won't :p
14:02<TrueBrain>as I plan to cut on those nice borders :)
14:02<TrueBrain>if I had any idea how .... :p
14:03<petern>just fix up that patch and don't worry ;)
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that patch would be a nice addition
14:03<gynter>why do I need action7 for?
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>gynter: action 7 to check if the other grf is active
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>action D to set the variable
14:04<gynter>yes ofc
14:04<gynter>thanks
14:04<TrueBrain>k ... I need a flooding algorithm, which floods everything inside the lines :p
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>action 6 to read the variable and change the value
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14:07<Jacobee>!download win32
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14:07<TrueBrain>effective ..
14:07<SmatZ>hehehe
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14:12<petern>hello again
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14:17<petern>what does lea edx,[edx+eax*4] do?
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14:17<SmatZ>petern: edx = edx + eax * 4
14:18<SmatZ>(no memory access)
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14:20<petern>oh
14:20<petern>so it magically does what it says in the tin, in one instruction
14:22<TrueBrain>okay ... I have a region, which is build up from latitude/longitude coordinates ...
14:22<TrueBrain>I need a routine which finds a points which is in the center of this region
14:22<TrueBrain>anyone any bright ideas?
14:23<petern>pinata
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: what happened to sum(points)/number?
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>where "points" are all points in the area
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14:27<TrueBrain>I can draw you regions where that does not give a point inside the area :)
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>that is true.
14:27<TrueBrain>take a slightly weird shaped triangle ..
14:27-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad9f87a.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:28<TrueBrain>well, in fact, I don't really need the center
14:28-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad87cc6.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
14:28<TrueBrain>just any real point inside the region
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>how do you determine if a point is inside the region?
14:29<TrueBrain>that is kind of my question ;)
14:29<TrueBrain>haha :)
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>so what you really want is a constructive variant of the axiom of choice :p
14:30<TrueBrain>euh .. what? :p
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>the axiom of choice says: "there is a function which maps every set to a member of that set"
14:30<TrueBrain>the image I just gave, it contains points of the border. I just made those points lines, but now I need a method to find any point inside the region, so I can flood the inside of the region; that way I can cut out everything that is not part of what I want :)
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>the problem with that axiom is its non-constructiveness, it does not say how to find such a function
14:31<TrueBrain>a human can always tell what is inside a region ... in math, it is much more tricky :(
14:31<TrueBrain>2 years ago I used this method to just do what you said, well .. sort of anyway
14:32<TrueBrain>but it turns out the database I use has A LOT of regions where this points is on the wrong side :p
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>which is why some mathematicians decide to deny this axiom at all
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14:33<Alberth>TrueBrain, Eddi|zuHause: walk from the point to some point definitely outside. Count the # borders that you encounter, if it odd, you were inside.
14:33<Alberth>*is
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>so, you have a polygon, which is given by a list of vertices, now you want to find a point that is inside the polygon
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>and any point will do?
14:34<TrueBrain>Alberth: that method fails too, in some weird shapes (which sadly enough is also in this set) .. but I remember I did try to make that to work .. I just failed somewhere :p haha :)
14:35<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: any point, yes, as long as it isn't at the border (and is a valid point in my lowest-resolution set)
14:36<TrueBrain>the time it takes to find this point is also not important; it is a one-time job
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14:36<+glx>[20:07:17] <TrueBrain> effective .. <-- DorpsGek should do it by itself :)
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>is it guranteed to be continguous?
14:36<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I would like to think so ...
14:36<TrueBrain>some regions are VERY small, and appear not to be
14:36<TrueBrain>but I think we can manually remove such regions anyway
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>well, if you think of real countries, there are occasionally ones that are not continguous
14:37<TrueBrain>like?
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>like in germany, Bremen is not
14:37<TrueBrain>one country can exist of multiple regions
14:38<TrueBrain>the dataset defines that the last point of the dataset is always the first point, and that is indicates a closed region
14:38<+glx>and sub-regions
14:38<TrueBrain>but .. I know for sure that is not true ;) But ignore those instances :) (I just remove them :p)
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>it's not really something to worry about, just wanted to check ;)
14:39<CIA-9>OpenTTD: glx * r14816 /trunk/src/ (network/network_gui.cpp settings_gui.cpp): -Fix: signed/unsigned warnings (MSVC)
14:42<TrueBrain>if (ny <- image->iheight) <0 nice typo
14:42<joachim>do you need to check for just one arbitrary point at a time?
14:43<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/image015.png <- Eddi|zuHause: that is how most regions are :)
14:44<joachim>nl!
14:44<joachim>my favourite country
14:47<Yexo>TrueBrain: if you just want any point within a region, can you not simply draw a line through the region, and choose the point halfway the first two corssing of the borders with your line?
14:48<Alberth>Yexo, region is not always convex
14:48<joachim>is to point to find any point inside, or determine whether any point is inside?
14:48<joachim>first to = the
14:48<TrueBrain>to find _any_ (1) point inside
14:48<TrueBrain>or, for all I care: _any_ (1) point outside
14:48<joachim>ah, ok
14:49<TrueBrain>the latter only makes it slightly more complex :)
14:49<Yexo>Alberth: does that matter?
14:49<TrueBrain>Yexo: it does :)
14:49<Yexo>TrueBrain: can you give an example?
14:50<TrueBrain>I used to
14:50<TrueBrain>but I trashed all my old work ;)
14:51<TrueBrain>ah, the 'ray' problem was when it hit a line that was paralel (and at the position) of the ray
14:51<TrueBrain>then detection is fucked ;)
14:51<TrueBrain>on which also your idea fails Yexo
14:52<joachim>and you need this to start the drawing? i guess you're not planning to 'actually' flood the regions :P
14:52<Alberth>glx: how do you get a signed/unsigned warning with this? "i < vscroll.pos + vscroll.cap" all vars are unsigned.
14:52<TrueBrain>I really flood the regions .. just virtual ;)
14:52<+glx>Alberth: uint+uint -> int
14:53<Yexo>TrueBrain: that depends, as it can work with any arbitrary line (the angledoesn't matter) you can just preprocess all border lines and chose a line that is not paralel to any existing line
14:53<joachim>there are not that many regions though, not much work to just set some coords manually
14:54<TrueBrain>joachim: my dataset defines around 10000 regions
14:54<TrueBrain>you feel up to that task?
14:54<joachim>i said nothing
14:54<joachim>;)
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: can't you just pick a point next to the border, flood-fill, and check if that flood hits the map edge?
14:55<joachim>it will hit all edges even if it's outside
14:55<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: hmm ... 'sandbox' the image and flood it at any random point ..
14:55<TrueBrain>now there is an idea ..
14:55<TrueBrain>if the map-edge is reached, invert the flood
14:55<TrueBrain>pick any point fromt he flooded area
14:55<TrueBrain>and it should always be a point inside :)
14:55<joachim>oh
14:56<joachim>misread
14:56<TrueBrain>not really fast ... but for sure simplistic :)
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>well, other option would be to triangulate the entire polygon, and then check for each resulting triangle, if it contains an inner point
14:57<TrueBrain>lol
14:58<TrueBrain>I remember clearly there was an area in germany that 'leaked'
14:58-!-yorick [~Yorick@82-171-205-190.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:58<TrueBrain>let me see if I can still find that point ..
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>but that's the fault of your dataset, not of the algorithm...
14:58<TrueBrain>yup
14:59<Yexo>after thinking a bit about it, I don't see why my idea fails if you just ignore all border lines paralel to the chosen line
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>and can't you manually "close" that dataset by appending the start point at the end again?
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14:59<TrueBrain>Yexo: detecting that tiny fact is _very_ hard
14:59<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, but there was somethins epcial here ..
14:59<TrueBrain>let me look up the image ..
14:59<TrueBrain>(I try to reach in my memory of 2 years back, so it is a bit fuzzy ;))
14:59<ctibor>Is there someone who plans to implement tekky's bidirectional tracks or is it such a huge task that nobody is willing to make it? (myself "no coder" :-(( )
14:59<Yexo>TrueBrain: what? detecting whether two lines are paralel is simple
14:59<TrueBrain>Yexo: in general, yes
15:00<TrueBrain>with coordinates: no
15:00<TrueBrain>'resolution' is a big factor here
15:00<TrueBrain>your suggested method returned a point on a line at certain resolutions
15:00<Alberth>glx: due to the uint16 vars, apparently. Tnx
15:00<TrueBrain>no matter what I tried ;)
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>ctibor: the main problem there is to create an efficient reservation storage and lookup, because the track reservations cannot be stored in the map anymore
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>the same tile might be reserved by multiple vehicles
15:01<ctibor>Eddi|zuHause: Yes I read about it, that it is suggested to meke some graphs to store information needed
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>for different levels of reservation
15:02<Yexo>TrueBrain: I think I miss some vital information on your problem here. Are all lines a integer coordinates or so?
15:02<TrueBrain>hmm .. the code for germany is not DE, nor GR ... hmm ..
15:02<TrueBrain>Yexo: no, floats of course
15:02<TrueBrain>GM .. lol
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>GM? wtf?
15:03<ctibor>It's shame, that feature will be absolutely killer for me :-)
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>ctibor: i don't recall anyone explicitly saying he would work on that
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>but nobody was saying that he worked on YAPP, either :p
15:04-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E256.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:04<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/image016.png
15:05<ctibor>Eddi|zuHause: Seems like that unless I will learn programming (which will happen not in near 30 years), nobody will implement this ;-)
15:05<TrueBrain>k ... lets try the sandbox idea :) (takes an hour or so to program)
15:06<ctibor>If it only could be written in bash, than there will be some small hope for me :-)
15:06<ctibor>Eddi|zuHause: But enough and thanks for the info :-)
15:07<joachim>bash ftw!
15:07<petern>language isn't important, it's the methods that need thought
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>waaaaaaah... the green is too bright... after minimising the window, the whole screen looks red (where it was white before)
15:07<petern>Eddi|zuHause, that's just screen burn ;)
15:07<joachim>i sometimes decide to do stuff in bash just for the limitations and challenges i'll have to overcome to make things work
15:08<ctibor>petern: Ok, you are right, but that's also the problem, I don't have algoritmic brain :-)
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>i don't like limitations and challenges
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>i like theories and algorithms
15:08<TrueBrain>hmm ... one other problem... if in the data file is a region, and a center point ... and that center point is outside the current image ..
15:08<TrueBrain>no idea how to fix thatone yet :s
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15:09<ctibor>Algorithms fascinates me :-) That's all I have common with them ;-)
15:10<Sacro>limitation disturbs me very sprites
15:10<Sacro>goes throw out limitation?
15:12<petern>lol
15:12<joachim>Eddi|zuHause: so you code theoretic applications in theoretic mathematics? or just play with cellular automata?
15:13<joachim>well, they provide challenges as well
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>no, i code in python, currently
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>source code analyses
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>abstractions of program flows
15:14<joachim>and you don't like challenges?
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>to prepare for model checking
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15:15<Eddi|zuHause>joachim: not if it involves getting the compiler to understand what i was thinking, or reading long list of poorly documented library contents to find what i need
15:15<joachim>:)
15:15<Alberth>joachim: programming in Python has very few challenges w.r.t. the language, at least
15:15<joachim>sure
15:16<TrueBrain>last week someone said to me, while I was browsing through some python code of mine: is that PHP? It looks like PHP?
15:16<TrueBrain>I don't see how any person who knows a tiny bit about program languages, can confuse PHP for Python ..
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, it looks as much like PHP as it looks like any other language
15:17*Rubidium would confuse sparc assembly with arm assembly too
15:17<Alberth>ROFL!
15:17<TrueBrain>the syntax is widely different
15:18<TrueBrain>they all contain letters ...
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but an "outsider" sees words like "class", or operators like "==", and then almost every language looks the same
15:18<Alberth>Rubidium: you want to borrow my arm assembly language book? :P
15:19<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: not to mention they all use indentation at the same points in the program
15:19<@Rubidium>Alberth: please not
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>Python is a really nice language, but you soon need to learn to behave yourself with abusing some language features
15:21<@Rubidium>C/C++ gives me enough power and control
15:21<TrueBrain>like any other language ;)
15:21-!-gynter [~gynter@78-28-73-104.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:21<petern>hmm
15:22<petern>maybe i should finish working out what ttdpatch is doing :o
15:22*Belugas sends some tea off to petern
15:22<TrueBrain>Belugas!!!!!!!!!!11111111111 :)
15:23<petern>hello sir belugas :D
15:23<@Belugas>hello guys :)
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15:27<TrueBrain>hmm .. I can't get 'mercurial' to ignore a given file, but not the dir of the same name ...
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15:31<ctibor>Ok, i will leave now but you know, think about it ;-)
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15:56<petern>hah
15:56<petern>ttdpatch style seems to be working
15:56<petern>although it's bodgy
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15:58<petern>i fail to understand patch's incline code :o
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16:07<@Belugas>customer support
16:07<@Belugas>lovely
16:07<petern>:/
16:07<@Belugas>VERY NOT!!!
16:08<@Rubidium>customers on a saturday? Useless people customers
16:08<Prof_Frink>petern: Have you tried raising patchy in #tycoon?
16:08<petern>nope
16:09<petern>let me upload these changes :D
16:09<TrueBrain>my flooding algorithm appears to do something ..
16:10<TrueBrain>just not what I want ;)
16:10<petern>right, ttdpatch added
16:11<petern>along with a max rated speed marker
16:12<@Belugas>it's the fault of the installation team. they fucked up
16:12<@Belugas>again
16:12<@Belugas>now, they all flead
16:12<@Belugas>and i need to clean up their mess
16:12<@Belugas>again
16:12<@Belugas>grrrrr
16:12<+glx>hehe
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 90/3.6
16:13<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 25
16:14<petern>exactly 25
16:14<petern>which is nice
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes, lots of 3's as prime factors ;)
16:15-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad87cc6.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:15<@Rubidium>so TTDP's blue curve drops too fast and OTTD's blue curve drops too slow
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16:16<petern>depends on the values given
16:16<@Rubidium>hmm.. or OpenTTD's one starts too high and the red one too low
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>ttdp's curve seems very... bumpy...
16:16<@Rubidium>409t, 8 MW, 300 kN TE, 100 m/s, 0.03 incline
16:17<@Rubidium>(i.e. ICE3 without DC motor)
16:17<petern>i didn't add ttdpatch's drag coefficient
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>the max speed line is almost invisible...
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>orange on white
16:19<petern>visible for me
16:19<@Rubidium>hmm... why's max achievable speed less than max operational speed?
16:19<petern>because of the slope
16:20<petern>unless you mean with no slope
16:20<petern>in which case the drag values are wrong
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16:20<petern>with ttdpatch's default drag for a 100m/s train, it reaches max speed
16:20<@Rubidium>with incline 0 it has around 90 m/s achievable speed
16:21<petern>goes up to 110 m/s here, let me add that in
16:21<@Rubidium>ICE's 3 operational speed is ~92 m/s, max speed ~102 (according to wiki/specs)
16:22<@Rubidium>with your graphs at level: 85 m/s for simple and 89 m/s for (O)TTD(P)
16:23<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: funny enough .... even the sandbox method manages to pick points which are very tricky ;)
16:23<TrueBrain>haha
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>well, just try 3 points, and pick the one that finishes first
16:24<TrueBrain>for some reason some points finish too soon :(
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16:25<@Rubidium>hmm... and incline of -1 is funny
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16:27<@Rubidium>with negative incline's OpenTTD's one is (much) closer than TTDPatch's one
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16:28<TrueBrain>outside the image :o :o :o
16:28<petern>there
16:29<petern>ttdpatch default air drag done
16:29<Prof_Frink>In a tunnel or not?
16:29<petern>not
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16:30<petern>hm
16:30<petern>i should fix it, some dodgy values can lead to infinite loops ;)
16:30<TrueBrain>which values? :p
16:31<@Rubidium>an incline of -100%
16:31<@Rubidium>and many many more
16:31<TrueBrain>it wasn't really a question :p
16:32<TrueBrain>ha, it works :)
16:32<TrueBrain>tnx Eddi|zuHause ;) (and the rest)
16:32<TrueBrain>hmm .. sometimes it still leaks ...
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>something is not right... when i change the incline, the graphs do not change...
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>ah, it doesn't like "%" in it ;)
16:35<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/image017.png
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>NOO... "Service Unavailable" :p
16:37<TrueBrain>how to fix leaks ......
16:41-!-ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@ip-67-205-67-52.static.privatedns.com] has joined #openttd
16:50-!-ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd
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16:50<Nite_Owl>Hello all and a belated Happy New Year
16:51<TrueBrain>hi Nite_Owl :)
16:51<Nite_Owl>Hello TrueBrain
16:52-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E256.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: is there a feature planned where you can rotate these maps 45°? because the game rotates them 45° back
16:55<TrueBrain>not really, as that looks kind of ugly ;)
16:55<TrueBrain>hehe :)
16:59-!-gynter [~gynter@77-233-65-59.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has joined #openttd
16:59<gynter>hello, why I can't see any grf files, when running server on cli?
17:00<petern>right
17:00<FauxFaux>left
17:00<+glx>up
17:01<gynter>should I use full paths?
17:01<gynter>in config
17:01<petern>Rubidium, fixed... it won't lock up now
17:01<petern>poor server ;)
17:02<gynter>but really?
17:03<petern>what do you expect to see?
17:03-!-mindless [~Administr@75.110.39.179] has left #openttd []
17:03<gynter>I have grf files in config, but when I run server those aren't there
17:03<gynter>in-game
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17:04<petern>if grf files are in data/ then specify just the grf filename
17:04<gynter>i have config file as root directory where i run openttd -c conf.file and grfs are in data/
17:05<gynter>-D -c
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>is that the old "realistic" or the newly tweaked version?
17:05<gynter>0.6.3
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>not talking to you ;)=
17:06<gynter>ah ok :P
17:07-!-George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd
17:09<@Belugas>mmh... something is really fucked up. INVALID DATA
17:09<@Belugas>maybe the processor has not been correctly configured then :(
17:09*Belugas still searches
17:09<@Belugas>fun whan you can only do that between customers :(
17:10<gynter>is the data directory /usr/share/games/openttd/ hardcoded?
17:10<petern>error 14!
17:10<petern>mind you
17:11<petern>sometimes i get INVALID DATA when testing with 4444333322221111...
17:18<gynter>hmh, just can't get it, works fine if I host server in-game
17:18-!-Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-544465b0.lns4-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd
17:20<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r14817 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.h tar_type.h): -Cleanup: unify the place where the @file header is placed
17:21<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r14818 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r14723): add network_base.h to source.list and project files
17:22-!-vraa_ [~vraa@h205.74.20.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd
17:22<gynter>nevermind
17:23<petern>THE BUZZCOCKS
17:23<Prof_Frink>I was thinking Nirvana.
17:23<petern>you were thinking of the cover, weren't you?
17:23<Prof_Frink>ZOMG CHILD PORN.
17:24<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/image018.png
17:24<TrueBrain>:) :) :) :)
17:24-!-WhiteRhino [White@modem179.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd
17:24<WhiteRhino>Evening, folks.
17:24-!-vraa [~vraa@h127.188.213.151.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:26<TrueBrain>Germany still leaks ..
17:26<joachim>still with the flooding?
17:26<AmanoJaku>Stupid connection. Seems to enjoy cutting me off over and over.
17:27<TrueBrain>yup .. takes for ever to get right ;)
17:27<joachim>:)
17:30<joachim>is the daylength patched being considered for trunk?
17:30<joachim>s/ed//
17:32<petern>no
17:32-!-WhiteRhino [White@modem179.tmlp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:32-!-AmanoJaku is now known as WhiteRhino
17:32<WhiteRhino>Finally.
17:33<joachim>petern: why not?
17:35<@Rubidium>because it breaks the whole economy
17:35<joachim>i guess it might
17:36<joachim>but maybe the problems should be made dynamic so to fit the daylength patch or other modifications
17:37<petern>a dynamic problem is a problem solved?
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>the daylength patch startet out as a hack and did not evolve much beyond that
17:37<joachim>the problem areas, sorry
17:37<TrueBrain>hmm .. my sandbox idea sometimes requires ..
17:37<joachim>i know it is alot of work
17:37<TrueBrain>@calc 20000 * 20000 / 1024 / 1024
17:37<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 381.469726562
17:37<TrueBrain>381 MiB of RAM :p
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>it was never clearly defined, which parts of the game should be considered day based
17:38<joachim>is that a daylenght patch problem or a game problem?
17:38<joachim>;)
17:38<petern>TrueBrain, just use bytes that can store 2^9 or more!
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>imho, the patch should become even bigger, by making more scales of the game configurable
17:38<TrueBrain>:) I should ask googder ...
17:38<joachim>Eddi|zuHause: agree!
17:38<petern>why not continue, surely if you can fit 2^9 into 2^8 then you can fit 2^12 into 2^11 into 2^10 into 2^9...
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>petern: some people actually tried to patent that :p
17:39<joachim>the game time was designed for 256x256 maps...
17:39<petern>oh crap
17:40<joachim>decades will pass while creating or redesigning networks now
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>take a compression algorithm that reduces the size of each string by 1 bit
17:40<TrueBrain>Informatic Theorem ;)
17:40<TrueBrain>(or how ever you write that in english)
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>and apply that recursively :p
17:41<@Rubidium>joachim: it takes decades in real life too
17:41<joachim>it does, but a decade in the game is missing 1/7 of the game
17:41<joachim>in single player at least
17:42<gynter>uhm, why server doesn't read [pathces] on cli with -c flag?
17:42<joachim>in real life running a rail company takes thousands of people, Rubidium
17:42<joachim>that's not what we want, is it? ;)
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>you can use AIs for that :p
17:43-!-haXs [~H4Ck]z6]3@92.9.57.128] has joined #openttd
17:43<haXs>Hello!
17:43<TrueBrain>hello haXs
17:43<haXs>quick question, is anyone able to take a screenshot from the console of a linux server?
17:43<haXs>iv found that i no longer can
17:44<joachim>there are probably millions on google images
17:44<haXs>im useing 0.6.3 compiled from source
17:44<joachim>:)
17:44<haXs>sorry i mean i cant take them from my server, useing the screenshot command or even via rcon
17:45<Alberth>haXs: ksnapshot? gimp?
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>haXs: that is because the dedicated server does not draw anything
17:45<TrueBrain>it was never meant to work, to make screenshots from a dedicated server
17:45<haXs>oh
17:45<haXs>it always used to in older versions
17:46<TrueBrain>we know :)
17:46<+glx>it was a "bug"
17:46<TrueBrain>I always considered that a bug ;)
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>haXs: that was "fixed" ;)
17:46-!-NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/]
17:46<TrueBrain>haXs: the dedicated server is much faster when it draws as little as possible :)
17:47<Alberth>gynter: -c flag is for giving an alternative place for an entire openttd.cfg file, not for just for patches (or pathces)
17:47<gynter>i have full cfg, but [pathces] isn't read
17:47<gynter>difficulty and patches are default values
17:47<gynter>bur [network] is correct
17:47<gynter>but *
17:47<@Rubidium>gynter: that's because OpenTTD doesn't read the [pathces] section
17:47<TrueBrain>because it should read [patches] ;)
17:47<@Rubidium>and it never had
17:48<gynter>[patches]*
17:48<@Rubidium>haXs: try changing the blitter
17:48<haXs>thanks for clearing that up for me anway
17:48<gynter>thou if I use same config to creater server without -D it works fine
17:48<gynter>nevermind
17:48<gynter>solved
17:48<gynter>shoot me
17:49<TrueBrain>if you really want to ...
17:49<@Rubidium>/shoot gynter
17:49<Alberth>gynter: you'll have to wait until yorick is back
17:49<gynter>got the source of my problem
17:50<gynter>i use the scenario file..
17:50<TrueBrain>you? :p
17:50<TrueBrain>hehe
17:50<TrueBrain>:)
17:51-!-dageek [~dageek@87-194-2-213.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
17:51<dageek>Hi All
17:51<TrueBrain>hi dageek
17:52<Zuu>hi dageek
17:52-!-dageek is now known as DaGeek
17:52<DaGeek>hey TrueBrain & Zuu
17:53<DaGeek>just after some info about ripping some game stats out of a running game
17:54<Zuu>From PHP?
17:54<Zuu>Then OpenTTDLib might be what you are looking for
17:54<DaGeek>OpenTTDlibs ?
17:54<DaGeek>soundz interesting...
17:56<DaGeek>i have managed to get some details out of a running game using AutoPilot, I added a few Modz to AP and have got some .sh/.tcl scripts to pull out some info
17:57<DaGeek>the info i am after is the 'Detailed Performance Rating' that can been seen in-game..
17:57<Zuu>OpenTTDLib gets mostly what is available on server page on www.openttd.org
17:57<DaGeek>but i would like to get this data out of the game so that i can create a 'high score' system..
17:57<DaGeek>I have got all that data already via tcl & php
17:57-!-roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
17:58<DaGeek>and also php using raw UDP Sockets...
17:58<Zuu>OpenTTDLib is a library that does just that.
17:58<Zuu>(in PHP)
17:59<DaGeek>then like i say, I can already do what OpenTTDLib does....
17:59<DaGeek>i just want to pull the Preformance rating stuff as well, since this is the only way i can see to 'score' the users of my server..
17:59<Zuu>For performance rating you probably has to make a custom built server that either adds a dedicated server command to get the rating or using some other interface.
18:00<DaGeek>can the dedicated server pull this info and display it on the console of hte server already ?
18:00-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: Operator, give me an exit]
18:01<DaGeek>i guess it must be in there somewhere as it is shown tot he end user in-game..
18:01<Zuu>I don't think so, but haven't checked myself.
18:01<DaGeek>i just need to know how i can access the info that is being shown tot he end user
18:01<Zuu>I think you either have to find someone willing to share code for what you need or code it yourself.
18:01<Zuu>Kurt is a multiplayer server that has something similar.
18:02<DaGeek>really ?
18:02<DaGeek>Kurt isnt online @ the mo...
18:03<DaGeek>do you happen to know a www page for him that i might be able to look @ ?
18:03<Zuu>Okay, and kurt himself is unreachable?
18:03<Zuu>no, I don't know how to contact him.
18:03<DaGeek>i have done some Google'in and have not found any scorein system for OTTD...
18:03<Zuu>Don't even know what his user name on tt-forums is, but try search for users with "kurt" in the name.
18:05-!-flexd_ [~flexd@127.79-160-12.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd
18:05<DaGeek>umm, might have to go for a hunt and see if i can find him, see how he is doing it..
18:05<Zuu>Or if you know C++ take a look at the code straight ahead. :)
18:07-!-flexd [~flexd@127.79-160-12.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:10<Zuu>Good night
18:10-!-Zuu [~Zuu@c-53f3e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:11<DaGeek>thank all for your help, im off to
18:11-!-DaGeek [~dageek@87-194-2-213.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd []
18:11<petern>hmm, VT-95 doesn't get up to speed in any graph :/
18:12-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-228-220.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
18:14<Alberth>ah, you are talking about a locomotive, not a serial computer terminal
18:14<petern>er, no :)
18:14<petern>ah, MB tweaked the air drag to make it work, heh
18:15<Alberth>I needed 5 minutes to discover that :)
18:16<petern>really?
18:16<petern>but you typed your line only 2 minutes after mine
18:16<Alberth>hmm, I need to go to bed :)
18:17<Alberth>anyway, how do you add two new sprites for the gui to openttd?
18:18<petern>carefully
18:20<Alberth>I hope so, doping this patch sequence for the 4th time already
18:21<Alberth>-p
18:22-!-curosurf [~xcvxcv@wonea.demon.co.uk] has joined #openttd
18:25<Alberth>the images are simple 11x11 circular sprites and should present no problem. However I have literally no idea how or where to tell the program that I have two new sprites for use in the gui drawing. A seperate GRF file won't work (it is not guaranteed to be always there), are there other options or should I fall back to drawing a lot of lines at the proper place (which I do now)?
18:26<Alberth>ie like the [<] and [>] buttons
18:28<@Rubidium>Alberth: checkout extra/ottd_grf
18:28<@Rubidium>then add the two sprites to split/openttdgui.pcx and to split/openttdgui.nfo (also increment the count in the action 5 by 2)
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18:30<@Rubidium>in trunk open table/sprites.h, increment OPENTTD_SPRITE_COUNT by 2 and add two enums for both sprites with SPR_OPENTTD_BASE + index_of_sprite (147 and 148 in this case)
18:31<@Rubidium>and in the ottd_grf you can generate openttd[dw].grf using make and copy those to trunk/bin/data
18:33<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14819 /trunk/src/ (order_gui.cpp timetable_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Change: make details and order menu stickyable, like the timetable window. Also let the detail/order/timetable window close eachther, like the detail and order windows already did, when not stickied.
18:33<@Rubidium>then for the patch attach the new pcx and the diff of ottd_grf (as the pcx won't be in the diff)
18:35-!-gynter [~gynter@77-233-65-59.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:40<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14820 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp querystring_gui.h): -Codechange: use (the correct) enum-type instead of just int (Zuu)
18:44-!-entropy [~maeror@92.101.230.163] has joined #openttd
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>hm... can i teach opensuse, instead of invoking the oom-killer, to add a swapfile?
18:44<entropy>how can i adjust a number of industries/towns in dedicated server?
18:45<@Rubidium>by changing the difficulty settings for the number of industries/towns
18:46<entropy>i don't have the gui
18:47<@Rubidium>you don't need the gui to change difficulty settings
18:48<entropy>hm is it number_towns and number_industries?
18:48-!-mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl]
18:49<entropy>i changed it and it doesnt' work
18:49<@Rubidium>don't know that by heart; just look it up in the wiki
18:50-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.180.111] has joined #openttd
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>entropy: you need to set diff_level to 3
18:51<entropy>THX
18:52<+glx>usual error :)
18:53-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should add that to your script :p
18:55<entropy>things like "0,0,3,1,300,2,1,2,0,1,4,0,1,1,1,1,0,1" are slightly non-obvious x|
18:55<Alberth>Rubidium: the openttdgui.pcx file seems to have 147 and 148 already in use. the .nfo also has two entries at those positions
18:55<@Rubidium>then use a more recent version of OpenTTD
18:56<@Rubidium>Alberth: sprites 0 and 1 are "metadata", which does not count towards the real sprites count
18:56-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.213.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:56<entropy>it's 0.6.3 )
18:58<@Rubidium>in the nightlies it's (much) more obvious what the numbers mean
18:58<+glx>entropy: the wiki has all the fields detailed IIRC
18:59<+glx>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Diff_custom
18:59<entropy>cool, but i prefer the stable versions
19:00<entropy>glx, i got that
19:04<WhiteRhino>Hate it when I'm buildin' trains and I get disconnected.
19:06-!-FauxFaux [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: IRSSI LIKES MAN BALLS]
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19:10-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-65-34-177-131.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
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19:24<@Belugas>i hate it too, WhiteRhino. But in my case, i was building rails with Thomas's wooden set with my son when i got connected...
19:24<@Belugas>to the office ^_^
19:26<Alberth>Rubidium: tnx for all the hints on what to do. I still don't understand the sprite count, though (assuming the arrow in sprite 0 is used). Tomorrow I'll try to use the new sprites in the program and see what happens (no doubt the offsets are still wrong).
19:26<Alberth>night all
19:28<curosurf>anyone, know if 0.7.0 will feature more client network options, like favourite, and better sorting?
19:29<curosurf>a real pain finding the right network game sometimes
19:29<Alberth>curosurf: nobody knows until 0.7.0 hits the streets
19:29<curosurf>I live in hope!
19:30<curosurf>and I'll watch the commit list
19:31<petern>you could use a nightly
19:31-!-ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
19:31<petern>then you'd see what it does have
19:31<Alberth>are there network servers that run nightlies?
19:32<curosurf>Mmmmn, true. I like the surprise, better option would be to write patch myself
19:32<curosurf>yes, there are a few servers
19:32<Alberth>curosurf: yes, writing a few patches may increase the odds :)
19:32<curosurf>Alberth: hehe
19:32-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B776D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
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19:33<curosurf>Alberth: or at least point out what needs changing
19:34<Alberth>those are called suggestions and we have a whole forum full of them
19:34<curosurf>true
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>80% of which are rubbish
19:36<curosurf>jumping the gun a little
19:36<curosurf>jumping the gun a little, I admit
19:37-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
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19:45<WhiteRhino>Curse you, Dialup. And all you stand for.
19:48*Rubidium wonders where dialup is still common
19:49<enra>outback australia mainly from experience ( work for an isp)
19:50<curosurf>Middle America ?
19:50<curosurf>parts of rural UK, northern Scotland
19:50<enra>ok - quite a few then lol
19:51<curosurf>some parts of India
19:51<curosurf>:-)
19:51<curosurf>lol
19:52<@Rubidium>those poor souls in those areas :(
19:52-!-Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>apparently there are large parts in rural germany which still do not have DSL
19:53<enra>gotta love the 56k gaming
19:53<Wolf01>there are large towns in Italy which don't have DSL
19:54<@Rubidium>Italy also has large towns without garbage collection
19:54<Wolf01>Africa too
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>well, almost all major cities in east germany got brand new fibre lines after 1990
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>which then turned out to be very expensive to upgrade for dsl
19:55-!-Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-544465b0.lns4-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:57<WhiteRhino>Rubidium: I'm in Massachusetts. It's a nice place to live but hell on people who enjoy the internet.
19:58*Sacro considers moving to america
19:58<curosurf>Dunno, I'm happy with adsl
19:58<curosurf>runs OpenTTD fine :-)
19:59<@Rubidium>that those guys at the northern end of Harvard Bridge haven't come up with a solution if it's that bad
20:00<WhiteRhino>Oddly, Dialup works OpenTTD pretty well. Occasional skipping but mostly around autosave time. Though occasionally stuff just freezes and it takes awhile for the game to realize the network disconnected me.
20:01<Wolf01>'night
20:01-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #openttd []
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20:01<@Rubidium>hello Wolf01!
20:01<Wolf01>joke!
20:01<@Rubidium>you failed!
20:01<WhiteRhino>Lol.
20:01<enra>powernap!
20:02<Wolf01>I wait until Little Britain night ends
20:02<Wolf01>*I'll
20:06-!-tom0004 [~Tom@92.1.163.11] has quit [Quit: http://www.chogie.eu]
20:10<Sacro>hate little britain
20:11<Wolf01>because it looks like your life?
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>do i really want to watch doctor who confidential?
20:14<@Rubidium>doctor who at the proms is more interesting
20:14<@Rubidium>and better suited for writing a thesis
20:18<Wolf01>ok, good night, this time for real
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20:26<@Belugas>[19:59] * Sacro considers moving to america <-- better to Canada, if yo ask me ^_^
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20:32<WhiteRhino>Grar. Damnable modem.
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21:04<joachim>when intercontinental airports hit in 2002, and i need to upgrade my airport hubs and their immediate connecting railways, i'm suddenly in 2020 and the game is over
21:05<joachim></ old point made>
21:05<joachim>i'll shut up about daylenght patch from now :)
21:05<joachim>length
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21:09<WhiteRhino>Dang it.. I keep having trains piling up and waiting at signals.
21:09-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1FB5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:10<joachim>?
21:10<joachim>then send less trains or make more exits :)
21:11<WhiteRhino>I did have three trains going to a two-wide station.. *reroutes*
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21:12<joachim>that shouldn't be a problem
21:13<joachim>or do you mean the trains were longer than the station length?
21:13<WhiteRhino>I didn't think it would either given the distance.. probably had to do with my having all three on full load. Been a long time since I played this game.
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21:15<joachim>could you post a screenshot of your station?
21:16<joachim>three trains on a two track station should never be a problem
21:16<joachim>unless you have a one-track exit/entry
21:18<WhiteRhino>It's one station with a two-track with one-way signals leaving from it.. but another set of two-track and one-way signals kind of connects to the side of the.... damn it.
21:18<WhiteRhino>Every time I start enjoying playing again, the network bumps me. Maybe I should stick to one-player. x.x
21:19<joachim>you said it was a long time since you played, when was that?
21:20<WhiteRhino>Err... *thinks* I'm 25 now and I first started playing my freshman year of highschool.
21:20<WhiteRhino>I mean, it's like riding a bike for the most part. I probably just bottlenecked things with a misplaced signal or something.
21:21<joachim>signals have changed
21:21<joachim>did you use pre-signals?
21:21<WhiteRhino>*cough* Not entirely sure what those are. I know of signals and one-way signals..
21:22<joachim>ok.. :)
21:22<WhiteRhino>Reconnecting to the map now. Hope things didn't bottleneck again while I was gone this time.
21:22<joachim>there are really many new features that you should read up on
21:23<joachim>especially signalling for making efficient rail networks
21:36<Eddi|zuHause>i was never really fond of the whole "read up on the standard solutions" idea...
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21:40<WhiteRhino>Wow. That's the most I've made with planes like.. ever.
21:44<joachim>if all i knew about was the two-way signal and the one-way signal from ttd, i'd prefer to read up on the basics and technicalities before exploring or having explained the possibilites
21:44<joachim>of the new signals :)
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22:08<WhiteRhino>Bah. And just when I was trying to get rid of a handful of goods trucks that were just driving up and down one street.
22:14-!-JJAx [JacksonPil@ip70-171-225-233.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #openttd
22:14<JJAx>Hello?
22:14<WhiteRhino>Heyo.
22:14<JJAx>I speak english ONLY.
22:15<JJAx>Please respond.
22:15<WhiteRhino>Apparently a lot of people want to go from the UK to Saudi Arabia.
22:15<JJAx>Interesting.
22:15<JJAx>Do you like the Aviators Aircraft set?
22:15<WhiteRhino>Got six Darwin 300s going to and from each airport and none of them leave without being full.
22:16<JJAx>The Aviators Aircraft set features the 500 seater A380.
22:16<JJAx>And you can configure the A300 to become a Beluga.
22:16<WhiteRhino>I usually keep away from airplanes and ships like they were covered in plague; I generally make suck for cash.
22:17<JJAx>Do you like airplanes in OTTD?
22:17<WhiteRhino>My fleet of six Coleman Counts were making 16k pounds a trip. These new ones make 80k a trip.
22:18<JJAx>You should get the aviators aircraft set,
22:18<WhiteRhino>I do so far, though I'm only running standard TTD with a fresh OTTD download.
22:18<JJAx>it has the A300 and Beluga, A380, and the concorde with an animated nose.
22:18<JJAx>It's also free.
22:19<JJAx>Coleman Counts are actually Vickers Viscounts.
22:19<JJAx>Please respond.
22:20<JJAx>Please respond.
22:20<JJAx>Please respond.
22:20<JJAx>Please respond.
22:20<JJAx>!noresponse>trig'NR'
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22:21<JJAx>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:21<JJAx>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:21<JJAx>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:21<JJAx>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:21<JJAx>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:21<WhiteRhinoPSO>The hell?
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22:27<WhiteRhino>Still have never made a decent profit using boats.
22:27<WhiteRhino>Geeze. Meanwhile this one of my six planes has made 487,000 pounds this year alone.
22:31<joachim>how does that work with cargodest - does the individual vehicle profit mean anything?
22:31-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Quit: Quit]
22:31<joachim>if not, what does it mean?
22:33<WhiteRhino>Cargodest?
22:33<Eddi|zuHause>joachim: the vehicle profit is essentially the same as transfer credit
22:34<Eddi|zuHause>the company only gets real income on final delivery
22:34<WhiteRhino>I've got a question: for a fleet of coal cars, which would be better for the stations, full ones or drivethroughs?
22:35<Eddi|zuHause>drive through stops have some problems with multistop
22:35<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. combining several roadstops to one station
22:35<WhiteRhino>Hm. I think I'll stick to normal depots, then, since there's ten of them going.
22:36<joachim>Eddi|zuHause: but they add up to way more than the actual profits, so the transfer credits are, eh.. transferred?
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22:42<WhiteRhino>...Crap.
22:43<WhiteRhino>I've got a single truck stuck in the crux of three one-way streets all pointing toward him.. and no exit. And the roads are owned by the botplayer and so I can't destroy them. I think that truck's stuck forever.
22:44<joachim>it'll suffer in hell with my two passengers who still can't find a route to unknown station
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22:48<WhiteRhino>Wow. 889,000 pounds per year highest for each plane.
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22:53<LordNokon>more
22:53<LordNokon>is there a way to edit aircraft speeds
22:53<LordNokon>without alot of trouble??
22:53<joachim>besides the setting?
22:54<LordNokon>yes
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22:55<joachim>probably needs a little trouble then
22:56<LordNokon>any ideas on how to do that
22:57<Eddi|zuHause>the TV program at 5AM is even worse than the one at 5PM
22:58<LordNokon>dont worry eddi, here in south africa, is always useless stuff to watch doesnt matter what time of the day
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23:10<WhiteRhino>..Keeps telling my Road Vehicle #15 has too few orders. It's stuck, it can't move. ><
23:11<WhiteRhino>Ooh, that makes up for it. 40k on a single coal train shipment.
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23:15<Eddi|zuHause>how did you get a road vehicle stuck?
23:16<WhiteRhino>Well, I'm on one of the Mega maps.
23:17<WhiteRhino>This one's made to resemble europe, russia, etc.
23:17<WhiteRhino>Highways were made to go around the map, one side one way, the other the other way. The guy who made the map tried to make little turnaround areas.. but this one is screwed up.
23:18<WhiteRhino>Three roads all one-way to a single intersection. The roads are owned by his player, as is the road along the flat of the T-intersection. I can't build roads to get the car out and it can't get out because of the one-ways.
23:19<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like fun :p
23:19<Eddi|zuHause>the only option is to talk to the owner
23:20-!-davis- [~suckyours@p5B28E058.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:20<WhiteRhino>Gah! Train crashhh...
23:20<Eddi|zuHause>but you can stop the vehicle, and set the "check orders" option to "except stopped"
23:22<LordNokon>im playing on the hugh maps, the trainsignals, isnt there a easier way to say one track goes to unload, and one to reload.
23:23<LordNokon>i no you can drag and drop, but you stil have to change each of the signals by hand
23:23<WhiteRhino>I just had a traincrash 'cus I screwed up trying to make a two-track "u-turn" sort of deal.
23:23<LordNokon>ive got like 1000 tracks going a very very long distance
23:23<LordNokon>any suggestions to this problem of mine??
23:24<Eddi|zuHause>you need to change the first signal to the correct way
23:24<Eddi|zuHause>and then drag
23:24<Eddi|zuHause>then it will copy that signal
23:24<LordNokon>oh ok thank you thank you thank you
23:24<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if that is implemented in 0.6.3 already, but you can also try ctrl+drag, it will then copy the signal even along curves
23:25<joachim>WhiteRhino: if it is ai you could perhaps buy the company
23:26<joachim>should ai really build one-way-roads anyway?
23:26<WhiteRhino>No, it's the server's player, clanmega.warlink.eu
23:27<WhiteRhino>And his company is worth 3 billion.
23:27<joachim>ah, ok
23:27<WhiteRhino>I think buying out the server's company could get me banned anyway. ;)
23:28<WhiteRhino>Damn. 104k (now using dollars) in a single coal train.
23:28<joachim>doesn't really say anything without reference points :)
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23:31<WhiteRhino>Not sure if it went through before I got disconnected, but.. you could always join the map I'm on and take a look. =P
23:36-!-michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:37<WhiteRhino>I'm in !Mega's Europe Map Classic 3.
23:41<LordNokon>whats that
23:41<WhiteRhino>The server I'm playing on, was telling Joachim.
23:51<WhiteRhino>Lost connection to the network again. Perfect opportunity to grab some dinner.
---Logclosed Sun Jan 04 00:00:48 2009