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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-01-05

---Logopened Mon Jan 05 00:00:25 2009
---Daychanged Mon Jan 05 2009
00:00<goodger>I wasn't aware caesium fountain clocks were wall-mountable
00:00<HttpErrors>use ducktape.
00:00<HttpErrors>always works.
00:01<goodger>HttpErrors: in that case I'd be more concerned about the ability of the paint to stick to the plaster, and the plaster to stick to the wall
00:01<HttpErrors>what if the wall was made out of nokias?
00:02<goodger>then I daresay they'd have difficulty sticking to each other as well
00:02<goodger>in which case WhiteRhino would end up with a caesium fountain clock, interior emulsion, wall plaster and a large pile of mobile phones on his floor
00:03<WhiteRhino>What makes you think I don't now? =)
00:03<goodger>WhiteRhino: I think it's quite unlikely
00:05<HttpErrors>lol
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00:13<WhiteRhino>Ahh, that feels better. Starting a company that's actually going places.
00:14<WhiteRhino>ANd then forgetting that Steel has to go to somewhere before it becomes Goods and wasting money on a whole line. Balls.
00:24<goodger>:P
00:26<goodger>ah, new xkcd. excellent
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00:33<WhiteRhino>Gah! That one wood train always breaks down right in the middle of my big intersection!
00:33<goodger>WhiteRhino: design your intersections better...
00:34<goodger>if the intersection is appropriately designed and the trains are the right length, then one of them should be able to break down in the middle and still allow through traffic from the other direction
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00:34<WhiteRhino>It
00:34<WhiteRhino>It
00:34<WhiteRhino>...Stupid fingers.
00:34<goodger>¬.¬
00:35<WhiteRhino>*cough* It's more where one dual line branches off into another dual-line. It's a T-intersection formed by two dual-lines and one single-line. The single is where the wood train is supposed to go.
00:35<goodger>right
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01:33<WhiteRhino>14 trains, all but two of them going to a 4-wide, 4-long station from both ends.
01:34<goodger>huzzah!
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01:46<WhiteRhino>God.. traffic jams.
01:46<goodger>yes.
01:46<goodger>suggest you enlarge the station just a tiny bit?
01:47<WhiteRhino>I can't. It's the size it is because on one side is a steel mill and the other is a sawmill.
01:47<goodger>...ah
01:48<goodger>try moving it along a few squares so that it is not between both of those
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01:58<WhiteRhino>That cost me... about $400k.
01:59<goodger>but now you can make profit because your trains will be able to reach their station
01:59<goodger>and I think you have been a bit clumsy if you've spent $400k moving a station
02:00<WhiteRhino>See, there was a lake behind it...
02:00<goodger>*headdesk*
02:00<WhiteRhino>Small lake.. but in order to put the station somewhere where I could expand it out to six wide, I had to kind of remove said lake.
02:00<goodger>did you not think to move it in the other direction?
02:00<WhiteRhino>Other direction had hills. x.x
02:00<goodger>I think hills are more cheaply removed...
02:01<goodger>I wasn't aware TTD generated closed lakes
02:01<WhiteRhino>This one did. =P
02:01<goodger>very well
02:02<goodger>enjoy your shiny new megahub
02:02<goodger>hmm, 7am
02:02<goodger>I probably should have gone to bed about eight hours ago
02:02<WhiteRhino>Thanks. =P
02:02<goodger>I hope this sleep disorder goes away before I go to university
02:05<WhiteRhino>So, that's why I've been losing money. Took me long enough to build the new station that it changed names. Everybody's been running around with (Invalid Orders).
02:05<goodger>ha
02:05<goodger>:P
02:06<goodger>honey nut cornflakes are the best foodstuff ever devised, I say
02:08<goodger>gah, my cat's got hold of that cheque again
02:08<WhiteRhino>Yeargh. Now they're back to jamming at the little intersection.
02:08<goodger>heh
02:08*goodger retrieves cheque
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02:19<WhiteRhino>argh!
02:19-!-einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
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02:20<goodger>WhiteRhino: yarr!
02:20<WhiteRhino>Crashed trains 'cus I tried to fix a small traffic jam.
02:22<goodger>heh
02:22<goodger>typical
02:22<WhiteRhino>Curse you, ignore signal button.
02:22<goodger>:P
02:23<goodger>o'reilly are taking the piss
02:23<petern>staying up on IRC doesn't really help with sleep disorders
02:23<goodger>$29.99 for a 137-page book
02:24<goodger>petern: I know, but I have to be up at 9am, and there's no way I'll achieve that if I go to bed at 4am
02:24<petern>also
02:24<petern>it snowed
02:24<goodger>maybe where you are
02:24<petern>yes, obviously where i am :)
02:25<goodger>the exterior of my house remains devoid of snow and indeed closu
02:25<goodger>*cloud
02:26<goodger>this book isn't even printed on decent paper
02:27<petern>and presumably wasn't made by the foliosociety
02:28<goodger>no, it was printed in the USA
02:28<goodger>and it really is _appallingly_ overpriced
02:28<goodger>you'd expect more than 140 pages for £25
02:35<WhiteRhino>I just placed my first Presignals. >.>
02:35<goodger>you weren't using them before? that explains the jams :S
02:36<WhiteRhino>Yeah. >.>
02:37<WhiteRhino>So I'd use those on any major intersections too, right?
02:37<+dihedral>morning
02:37<goodger>WhiteRhino: depends...
02:37<goodger>morning, dihedral
02:38<WhiteRhino>Like, don't enter the intersection if there's no exit from it?
02:38*goodger wonders if any inhabitants of this channel have jobs
02:38<goodger>WhiteRhino: yeah
02:38-!-Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
02:38<+dihedral>? a few here do!
02:39<goodger>they surprise me by being here at twenty to nine on a weekday morning, is all
02:40<+dihedral>?
02:40<goodger>I'm not aware of the age structure of most of them, so I can only presume they're of employment age
02:40<+dihedral>you start early, you get home early
02:40<+dihedral>at least i do
02:40<goodger>dihedral: you're at work _now_?
02:40<+dihedral>yep
02:40<+dihedral>i have been since 0800
02:40<goodger>this begs the question: why are you not working? :S
02:40<+dihedral>or 0755 to be precise
02:41<+dihedral>i am :-)
02:41<goodger>you are employed to use IRC?
02:41<goodger>can I have that job?
02:41<+dihedral>hehe
02:41<+dihedral>it's an awesome job
02:42<goodger>oh?
02:43<WhiteRhino>Okay, there we go. After all the money spent and trains rebuilt and signals finally fiddled with.. now I'm making some serious jink.
02:43<goodger>hurrah
02:43<goodger>and you have introduced me to a new synonym for money. congratulations
02:43<WhiteRhino>While looking over my list of trains it went from $60k to $170k moneys.
02:43<WhiteRhino>Hehe, I got it from Planescape: Torment.
02:43<goodger>goodo
02:44<WhiteRhino>Or you could call it Kopens, from Groo the Wanderer. =P
02:44<goodger>yes, let's not go overboard
02:44<goodger>dihedral: are you a BOFH?
02:49<+dihedral>no, goodger, i am no colleague of yours
02:49<goodger>what other job allows you to spend time on IRC? :S
02:50<goodger>and I'm not a BOFH, I own a publishing company (which does allow me to spend time on IRC)
02:50<+dihedral>lazy skunk!
02:51<goodger>oh, yes, you wouldn't believe
02:51<petern>cool
02:51<goodger>I'm so lazy, I developed a business model that involves no actual books being touched at any time by me or my partner
02:52<petern>what sort of work do you publish?
02:53-!-einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:54<petern>"Scientists dismiess 'detox myth'"
02:54<petern>haha :D
02:55<petern>-e
02:55<goodger>we will publish anything that will sell. to get our foot between the door and the frame, we are presently focusing on open-source project manuals (and have our first title being published later today, as it happens) --- once we've built up a portfolio of a few of those, which are great --- the mutual collaboration between us and the Scribus people for mutual benefit has been fantastic
02:55<goodger>--- we will diversify
02:55<+dihedral>i thought you were just in the start phase
02:56<goodger>we are. we're publishing our first title this afternoon
02:56<goodger>the preorders have been relatively healthy throughout December, though
02:56<+dihedral>well - the best of british luck for that
02:56<goodger>thank you
02:57<WhiteRhino>Locks and canals are really expensive.
02:58<goodger>WhiteRhino: yes, they are. this seems to be the developers punishing you for using them
02:59<petern>yeah, everyone knows there are no canals
03:00<petern>well
03:00<petern>actually canals *were* really expensive
03:00<WhiteRhino>I will become successful with ships. This, I command!
03:00<petern>but then, so is track laying
03:00<petern>and road building, no doubt
03:00<goodger>yeah, but the profits that the real canals made were impossibly huge compared to the ones that can be achieved with OTTD
03:01<petern>well they didn't have roads and rails for competition :)
03:01<goodger>track is relatively easy to lay. dig a shallow trench, fill it with lumps of rock, drop a bit of wood on, bolt a ten-foot piece of metal to it, and clip the pieces of metal together
03:02<goodger>unlike canals, which were really complex, or roads, which are really big
03:04*goodger feels like his lungs have had an argument with his throat and are trying to eject the throat
03:05<+dihedral>rather ejecting the throat than the lungs...
03:06<goodger>they're both rather important
03:06<goodger>the throat is the one that actually hurts, though :P
03:06<+dihedral>yes - but lungs look nasty and they take longer to shove back in
03:07<goodger>true. true
03:10<goodger>the US version of The Office is intriguingly similar to the UK version
03:10<goodger>they appear to have used the same script, but changed the words slightly
03:11<goodger>they also seem to have cast actors who look the same as the British ones
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03:16<+dihedral>guess what
03:16<+dihedral>same for the german version!
03:17<goodger>:)
03:17<+dihedral>and they went for the characters stupidity rather than looks here :-P
03:18<goodger>hm
03:21<goodger>I'm not sure what the point is
03:21<+dihedral>they have a german show rather than just dubbing it?
03:21<goodger>if they were going to use the same scripts with the same characters, and actors who looked the same, why not just export directly to the US and dub for germany & france?
03:21<goodger>yes, precisely
03:21<+dihedral>higher employment rate
03:21<+dihedral>:-P
03:22<+dihedral>at the cost of no extra script writer
03:22<+dihedral>+ money
03:22<+dihedral>quick 'n easy
03:22<goodger>hmm
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03:27<goodger>I am also concerned that the Americans have removed the good jokes
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03:32<enra>yay - got my new laptop - now i need to get all my ottd downloads again :(
03:34<goodger>:)
03:35<+dihedral>enra, why not copy from your old laptop
03:36<enra>it got fried and rotted the h/d - nothing there to copy anymore :(
03:36<goodger>:S
03:36<enra>but at least i'll have the latest ottd release now lol
03:36<goodger>petern: a chance of further snow today
03:37<enra>oh noes - i forgot i need the graphics files!
03:37<petern>it's snowing a tiny bit still
03:37<goodger>no snow here, but we might get some later on
03:37<goodger>what's your postcode?
03:38<petern>hp19 8te
03:38<goodger>ah
03:39<goodger>not too far from where I was born...
03:40<goodger>and almost exactly 100 miles north of where I am now. no snow for me ATM
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03:49<JdGordon>hey, whats the best way to build tracks where you have 3 or 4 tracks heading in the same direction but need to be able to let trains from any of those tracks head off to another line? (like http://imagebin.ca/view/93hNYv.html )
03:51<JdGordon>trains are apparently not very cooperative so those X's mean trains will sometimes cross to another track blocking others instead of going straight ahead
03:52<goodger>try removing some signals so that the trains do not pass through more than one signal at a time
03:52<goodger>that usually helps when fixing blockages
03:53<goodger>e.g. if your train is 7 tiles long, place the signal 8 tiles apart
03:54<+dihedral>JdGordon, have a look at www.openttdcoop.org, specifically the junctions, public server archive games, and SML
03:55<WhiteRhino>Man, it's 4am already.
03:56<goodger>WhiteRhino: 9am here... :P
03:56<WhiteRhino>Showoff. ;)
03:57<JdGordon>goodger: removing signals after the junction doesnt seem to have helped.. but that could be because that section is badly done
03:57<JdGordon>dihedral: thanks.. ill have a look
03:58<goodger>hmm
04:00<WhiteRhino>Whew, my boats are making a profit.
04:01<goodger>you could put a type 3 presignal immediately after each exit from the X structure and then a type 2 presignal 8 tiles later, so that the trains can guarantee they will always be able to clear the structure
04:04<petern>i return
04:04<petern>for i am now at the lovely place called... the office
04:05<goodger>huzzah
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04:05<petern>100 miles north? you're on the isle of wight?
04:05<goodger>no, southeast cornwall
04:07<petern>oh right, not directly north :)
04:08<petern>it's snowing a bit more now
04:08<petern>typical that it snows on the fast day of work, heh
04:08<goodger>and 100 miles directly south of you is 20 miles south of Wight
04:08<goodger>heh
04:08<petern>i did wonder
04:08<goodger>it's always gloriously sunny on school says
04:08<goodger>*days
04:08<petern>er, s/fast/first/
04:09<goodger>yes
04:09<petern>it's about 90-100 miles to my parents near portsmouth, but that involves 15-20 miles west/east at both ends
04:10<goodger>*nod*
04:11*petern mumbles about london-centric transport routes
04:11<petern>it's worse on the train of course
04:12<goodger>you're a good 250 miles to my town...
04:12<goodger>and good luck getting the train. I think there's one train per day from london that stops here
04:13<goodger>muttering about london-centric transport routes is deserved
04:16<goodger>going to canterbury from here involves going to london, even by car (!)
04:16<goodger>sodding M25
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04:28<petern>yeah
04:28<petern>they should continue the M27
04:30<WhiteRhino>Gah. I just accidentally dropped two and a half mil on a -tunnel-.
04:31<goodger>WhiteRhino: better than an automotive industry bailout
04:31<JdGordon>hmm... fixing those X's with tunnels on the 2 inner tracks seems to work better
04:32<WhiteRhino>Oh! Snap.
04:32<petern>maybe the A303 could be made a motorway
04:32<petern>although that ends up going to london anyway
04:33<goodger>petern: extending the M3 to exeter would be welcome, but would crush quite a lot of pretty countryside
04:34<petern>but the M3 has its lovely twyford down cutting
04:34<petern>*grumbles*
04:34<WhiteRhino>Awesomely, the only train not making any money anymore is the one that's just transferring goods from one station to another as opposed to unloading them. THings seem to be working now.
04:35<petern>should've built a tunnel
04:35<WhiteRhino>Be careful with tunnels. =P
04:35<JdGordon>are you guys playing with AI and breakdowns enabled?
04:35<goodger>petern: taking the M5 to bristol and transferring to the M4 is only 20 minutes longer than the A303 without congestion anyway, and the A303 is usually very congested
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04:37<petern>yeah
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04:37<goodger>but I suspect extending the M3 to exeter would cut the journey time quite a lot
04:38<goodger>of course, a bridge connecting exeter and canterbury would be best.
04:38<+dihedral>JdGordon, people here play differently!
04:38<JdGordon>obviously...
04:38<+dihedral>everybody has a certain style of playing, some play with breakdowns, some don't
04:39<+dihedral>you can even find people in the forums who like playing with the ai
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04:39<petern>the M3 is already further east than it should be
04:39<+dihedral>you find a better ai in the noai branch
04:39<petern>you need an M3x, heh
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04:44<WhiteRhino>$400k per year with each of my two planes. =D
04:44<goodger>planes == cheating... too easy to make colossal profits without bothering
04:44<WhiteRhino>I tosssed in a couple airports mostly so I could have money coming in on all four fronts.
04:46<WhiteRhino>Right now have a 528 rating.
04:48-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd
04:48<goodger>a what?
04:49<WhiteRhino>Detailed Performance Rating.
04:49<WhiteRhino>Under the trophy button.
04:53<WhiteRhino>What year is Monorail?
04:53<goodger>monorail has evaporated, it seems, in recent years, in favour of electric rail
04:53<goodger>maglev appears c. 2010
04:54<WhiteRhino>1972 right now, started in 1950.
04:54<JdGordon>monorail is 1999
04:55<goodger>that's too late IMO
04:55<goodger>the simpsons features a monorail in 1992
04:55<JdGordon>yeah, also its annoying changing over to maglev so shortly after
04:55<LordNokon>good day everyone
04:55<WhiteRhino>Do you guys tend to switch everything to the latest innovation or only specific lines?
04:56<LordNokon>how do i edit a save game, to add more factories and industries
04:56<goodger>it's not necessary to switch to maglev immediately
04:56<petern>monorail in ottd is pointless
04:56<JdGordon>its nice for the speedup
04:56<goodger>WhiteRhino: I personally use the date-change cheat to keep it in 2008
04:56<WhiteRhino>I know not of this cheat.
04:56<goodger>hit ctrl-alt-c
04:57<WhiteRhino>Well, dang. Ooh.. now that I've saved, wonder what would happen if I switched climate.
04:58<LordNokon>??
04:58<goodger>it won't thank you for it, but it won't crash
04:59<goodger>LordNokon: you can pretty much only edit the savegames by playing the game. there are facilities available in-game to build new industries
04:59<WhiteRhino>My singular lines seem to work well, but I doubt that the iron ore -> steel -> goods deal will work right.
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05:00<WhiteRhino>Okay, I'm done screwing around. =P Bedtime for me. G'night everybody.
05:00<goodger>night
05:00<@Rubidium>morning ;)
05:00<goodger>...yeah
05:00<petern>oops, just scared the boss a little
05:01<WhiteRhino>Bah. It's night for me 'cus I'm waking up at noon.
05:02<WhiteRhino>Before I go, though, I say Monorail should hit around 1990. That's decently far away from both Electric and Maglev, and if the Simpsons built one in 1992 and the monorail guy had built similar systems in three other towns, then we could safely assume he visited them around 1990 given the time taken to build said monorails.
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05:02<WhiteRhino>Plus it'd give monorail more a reason to be used if it's a longer wait between it and maglev. *shrug* My two cents.
05:03<JdGordon>maglev shuold be further out also...
05:03<goodger>JdGordon: not necessarily. maglevs were in use c. 2005
05:03<WhiteRhino>Maybe 2015 or 2020. Further on but not so far that games ending in 2050 will think it's not worthwihle.
05:04<JdGordon>goodger: only on test tracks...
05:04<JdGordon>and theme parks
05:04<WhiteRhino>20-30 years between would be good for me. Then again.. *cough* I've never played a map long enough to see maglev before.
05:05<goodger>nah, it was running on an airport in china
05:05<goodger>WhiteRhino: the game (without newgrfs) effectively ends in 1995 because this is as far into the future as MPS could be bothered to imagine
05:05<goodger>with newgrfs it lasts until 2015 because this is as far into the future as newgrf authors could be bothered to imagine
05:06<LordNokon>goodger - so i cant add more coals mines etc etc by editing my save game
05:06<WhiteRhino>Not necessarily. Once you get to 2050 or so you could always start a new map in Toyland using the Mars graphics. >.>
05:06<goodger>LordNokon: nope
05:07<WhiteRhino>Then just play like it's going from 2050 to 3050 or something.
05:07<goodger>unfortunately the trains only have set lifespans
05:07<goodger>so you will eventually be unable to buy any more trains because the designs have expired
05:08<WhiteRhino>Really? So the game can't like... continue forever unless you reverse the year?
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05:08<petern>there's no second hand market
05:08<petern>the last lot of engines will last forever
05:09<goodger>WhiteRhino: in fact, reversing the year doesn't reintroduce expired vehicles
05:09<petern>reverse the year then resetengines :D
05:10<WhiteRhino>How do you reset engines? >.> And if you reverse until 1950 or something, won't engines be reintroduced in whatever year they'd come out?
05:12<WhiteRhino>Anyway, bed is calling me. >.< I'll be back tomorrow. Seeya.
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05:15<LordNokon>goodger there is way, found it
05:16<LordNokon>rename your save game to the .src file edit what you want to do and rename it to .sav
05:16<goodger>ah
05:16<goodger>well done
05:17<LordNokon>thanks
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06:08<LordNokon>when building tunnels no traffic ligths can be placed inside the tunnels correct or not??
06:08<qball>no you cannot place signals inside the tunnel
06:08<enra>correct
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06:10<Wolf01>hello
06:10<goodger>hello Wolf01
06:11<enra>hi
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06:43<TrueBrain>lalalala
06:43<Wolf01>dum de-dum
06:44<goodger>tumptitum
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06:59<petern>pomtepom
07:01<edeca>Ooh, musical
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07:10<Wolf01>somebody should make a score for openttd, we already have 4 songs, and Belugas could play the music with the guitar!
07:10*Wolf01 hides
07:12<petern>that's not four songs
07:12<petern>that's a single phrase from a song
07:13<petern>stupid idea... record the ttd songs as sung by people
07:22<edeca>Does anybody here listen to the music?
07:23<TrueBrain>I always do ...
07:23<edeca>Crazy ;)
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07:25<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14844 /extra/strgen/findversion.sh: [strgen] -Change: make findversion.sh only look at the important files for recompiling strgen.
07:25<blathijs>Playing openttd without the original music feels wrong :-)
07:26<TrueBrain>hi blathijs :)
07:26<blathijs>hey TrueBrain
07:27<TrueBrain>how are you my friend?
07:29<blathijs>Busy, as always :-)
07:29<TrueBrain>no suprise there ;)
07:29<blathijs>Spent some part of my christmas break hacking on backupninja, a backup tool that is pretty useful, but not quite perfect yet :-)
07:30<TrueBrain>and succeeded?
07:31<blathijs>still ongoing :-)
07:31<blathijs>But I managed to stir some life in the mailing list, so that's good
07:32<TrueBrain>hehe :)
07:32<edeca>Bah, why did saveload stuff get split out into a different directory ;)
07:32<TrueBrain>why not?
07:32<TrueBrain>should have been done years ago
07:33<edeca>Yeah, but I just modified the copypaste patch last night to remove all the saveload stuff from saveload.cpp :P
07:33<+dihedral>probably because it breaks some patches :-P
07:33<+dihedral>hehe
07:33<edeca>At least I *removed* it though
07:37*petern ponders resyncing railtypes
07:38<TrueBrain>go for it ;)
07:38<petern>actually i could just tidy it up and then commit
07:39*TrueBrain ponders cleaning up his NoAI patches and commit them
07:39<TrueBrain>they are created around NAIL, but not really depending on that fact ..
07:39<petern>well
07:39<petern>Rubidium mentioned branching 0.7
07:40<petern>but i don't know how soon he had in mind
07:40<TrueBrain>I want NoAI to be trunk-tested for at least 1 month, so it won't be in 0.7 anyway :)
07:40<petern>there should be a bug-fix-freeze before that though
07:40<TrueBrain>it is more something to trunk-commit just after a branch ;)
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07:41<petern>heh, no conflicts
07:41<petern>cargodest'll be different...
07:41<TrueBrain>then your patch is not complicated enough ;)
07:41<petern>it's not!
07:42<petern>it has no savegame changes, incredibly
07:42<petern>it might need a bump just to prevent incompatibleness
07:42<petern>maybe it needs yet another patch option, hah
07:46<Yexo>petern: what is the current status of railtypes anyway?
07:46<edeca>What are railtypes? :\
07:46<petern>types of rail
07:46<Yexo>edeca: it's a branch allowing newgrfs to create more than the default 4 rail types
07:46<petern>Yexo, working but not tidied up or benchmarked
07:47<petern>and someone had a request to allow removal of the existing types
07:47<edeca>Yexo: Ah I get it
07:47<petern>though i can't remember who
07:47<petern>or if it's sensible
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07:47<Yexo>why would the existing types be removed?
07:47<petern>i don't know really
07:48<Yexo>they could just be hidden if there are no vehicles for them
07:48<petern>they would be
07:48<petern>should i try syncing cargodest? hehe
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07:52<Wolf01>WTF!
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07:53<Wolf01>stupid server, stop disconnecting me... I'm not a train
07:53<TrueBrain>lol :)
07:53<petern>!disconnecting wolf01
07:53<Wolf01>shhhhh
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07:56<Wolf01>gah... dsl problems... not again :(
07:56<TrueBrain>he collects Guests ;)
07:57<Wolf01>maybe it's because I'm connected for a month with the same ip address?
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07:57<TrueBrain>you no longer are :)
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08:37<CIA-9>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14845 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (22 files): [NoAI] -Codechange: make 'char *' as return type a const
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09:06<@Belugas>OpenTTD song on distorsion... would sound strange...
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09:10<TrueBrain>you think? :p
09:11<goodger>I think some of the original songs would be quite good if arranged for decent instruments
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09:12<lobster_MB>latest OS X UB nightly crashes whenever i try to access the advanced settings screen
09:12<lobster_MB>should i report this or what?
09:12<goodger>probably a good idea
09:13<TrueBrain>and in some way you just did ;)
09:13<goodger>yeah..
09:13<Yexo>lobster_MB: that is fixed in 14839 most likely
09:13<lobster_MB>aye - thanks Yexo
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09:28<matias>who has tought AI to make roads and rails?
09:28<matias>it's just horrible
09:28<bleepy>a chimp
09:28<matias>a lot of terraforming and still roads are going zig zag
09:29<edeca>Haha, us Brits will resist STR_EURO_INTRODUCE :)
09:29<bleepy>europeans? where?
09:29*bleepy loas rifle
09:30<edeca>bleepy: On your lawn.
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09:30<bleepy>marvellous, close range target practice!
09:30<edeca>bleepy: No headshots though, make it slow
09:31<Yexo>matias: the AI is still the same as the original TTD AI
09:32<Yexo>download NoAI if you want a decent AI
09:32<bleepy>:/
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09:40<goodger>edeca: gordon brown's criterion for joining the eurozone is that GBP must be worth >1 EUR
09:40<goodger>at this rate, we will be printing our first euro banknotes next week
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09:40<goodger>1 EUR must be worth >1 GBP, rather
09:40<LordNokon>i take it there's no way to copy a station layout and past it on anohter part of the map withou recreating the hole thing??
09:41<Yexo>not unless you play with the copy-paste patch
09:41<LordNokon>which is what version
09:41<Yexo>no idea, take a look at the forums
09:47<Aali>you shouldn't use copy-paste though
09:48<Aali>just build another station layout
09:48<Aali>don't spoil the fun
09:49<@Belugas>yeah
09:49<@Belugas>lazyness...
09:50<LordNokon>having to build a 1000 station the same way take a very very long time
09:51<edeca>LordNokon: It's trunk :)
09:51<edeca>But it doesn't copy newgrf stations yet
09:51<edeca>Basically because you can walk stations, so the copypaste patch would rely on distant-join stations patch
09:51<edeca>However, all other features of copypaste work dandily ;)
09:52<petern>burp
09:52<edeca>LordNokon: http://openttd.edeca.net/hg/copypaste if you want to check out, I've not updated the forum post yet
09:52<edeca>goodger: Heh, you mean we can't have banknotes with Queeny any more? :(
09:55<LordNokon>edeca which one should i use
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09:57<edeca>LordNokon: Like I said above, it doesn't currently copy stations.
09:57<edeca>LordNokon: So it probably wont help you. Do you run linux or windows? And do you build yourself or install?
09:58-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
10:00<@Belugas>or copy/paste?
10:00<@Belugas>hihihih
10:00<edeca>Haha
10:00*edeca gives Belugas a cookie
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10:03<edeca>LordNokon: However, it should be possible to add station copying with the exception of "walked" stations
10:03<edeca>LordNokon: But it will add the complexity that if you copy a newgrf station and paste it in a game without that newgrf loaded, what do you do?
10:04<Yexo>edeca: simple, just use the default station instead
10:04<edeca>Yexo: Yeah, that's one solution
10:05<edeca>Yexo: I prefer randomly bulldozing expensive tiles ;)
10:05<edeca>Yexo: Or generating an error dialog for every tile that fails
10:07<LordNokon>edeca you totaly lost me, i have no idea what you are talking about.
10:07<edeca>LordNokon: Cheese.
10:07<edeca>LordNokon: Plenty of cheese.
10:07<LordNokon>lol
10:08<edeca>Basically there is a copy and paste patch. It isn't in the official source, but does work with the latest version.
10:08<edeca>However, it wont help you copy stations.
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10:08<LordNokon>why
10:08<petern>why why, delilah
10:09<edeca>Because it doesn't know how to copy stations at the moment
10:09<LordNokon>ok makes sense
10:09*edeca wonders what the functions are for getting station tiles
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10:12<edeca>If compiled under cygwin, does the resulting exe depend on cygwin DLLs?
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10:19<+glx>theorically no as the -mno-cygwin flag is used
10:20<edeca>Excellent, thanks
10:20<+glx>but it's easy to verify :)
10:20<edeca>Heh, without deleting cygwin.dll? :P
10:20<TrueBrain>rename it
10:21<edeca>Yeah, that is a good idea.
10:21<edeca>Or I could check check the linking info
10:21<TrueBrain>inconclusive :)
10:22<+glx>and it's cygwin-1.dll ;)
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10:46<Progman>got the DEBUG( makro a placeholder for a string by a given string-id?
10:55<joachim>will autorenew turn off old vehicle warnings?
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10:56<petern>no
10:57<petern>it might cause vehicles to be renewed, which would then stop vehicles being old, which would then not issue old vehicle warnings
10:57<petern>but in itself it does not 'turn off' old vehicle warnings
10:57<joachim>ok
10:58<joachim>do you know how old a vehicle is for the game to start warning?
10:59<petern>depends on the vehicle
10:59<petern>it tells you
10:59<joachim>i want a warning before it's autorenew
11:00<joachim>ed
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>the first warning is lifetime - 12 months, the default for autorenew is lifetime - 6 months
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>so you have 6 months time to react
11:02<joachim>i set lifetime to +12 months
11:03<joachim>cause i don't think i'm getting warned
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you changed the message settings?
11:04<joachim>no, it's all good
11:04<joachim>maybe daylength patch screws it up? autorenew doesn't seem to trigger either
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>daylength should have no influence to lifetime and autorenew
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11:05<joachim>ok, i have buses that are 18 (max 10)
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>maybe they can't find path to depot?
11:08<joachim>no, i don't think that's it
11:08<joachim>my oldest trains are 19/20 now, no warning
11:08<joachim>will see if they are renew
11:09<Progman><http://paste.openttd.org/178484>, what do you think? it sets the number of town/industrie generation in the editor always to the lowest amount (index 0 for towns, index 1 for industries) instead of using the current/last game setting
11:13<joachim>renewed*
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11:38<joachim>Eddi|zuHause: disabling "warn if vehicle is late" also disable the age warning :)
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>err... that is obviously a bug or a wrongly synced patch
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11:46<gynter>hello, does anyone know why I have Pikka's Basic Industries all cargo rates 0€ ?
11:46<gynter>OpenTTD 0.6.3, latest PBI
11:46<Aali>...
11:46<SmatZ>gynter: because you added the GRF after game initialization?
11:47<Aali>you missed the big red warning sign?
11:47<gynter>no?
11:47<SmatZ>then I don't know
11:47<gynter>all grfs are read correctly (are green) and industries works
11:47<gynter>but only payment rates are 0
11:47<yorick>yes
11:47<yorick>but did you add it ingame or in the menu?
11:48<gynter>client or server?
11:48<gynter>In client I added it from menu, in server I added it to scenario from ediotr
11:48<gynter>editor *
11:49<yorick>yep, then there's your problem
11:49<yorick>you can't add newcargoes grfs from inside the game/editor
11:49<SmatZ>you have to add GRFs in the main menu, not in the game nor scenario editor
11:49<gynter>But how I could add new grf to scenario then?
11:49<yorick>nightlies support the feature
11:49<gynter>since If i add it to server conf it'll only read scenario ones
11:49<yorick>and you need to add it before create the server
11:49<gynter>hmm
11:49<SmatZ>trunk behaves better, it resets economy after newgrf changes (I thought it has been backported to 0.6 :-/
11:50<yorick>the scen*
11:50<Aali>gynter: set the right GRFs from the main menu before you create the scenario
11:50<gynter>I did
11:50<gynter>no i didn't
11:50<gynter>thanks :)
11:51<gynter>i'll try that
11:51<gynter>but, then i'll have to make new scenario?
11:51<Aali>basically, yes
11:51<gynter>thats sad, but if it works then its worth of it :)
11:52<gynter>k, gona test this
11:52<gynter>bye
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11:52<yorick>(or he just uses ammlers reseteconomy patch)
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12:11<Wolf01>nice... I just found that some vehicles can skip queues at roadstops by passing the queued vehicles like ghosts
12:12<petern>road vehicle queueing (with quantum effects)
12:12<petern>that's the quantum effects bit
12:12<goodger>actually, they just overtake... ¬.¬
12:13<petern>in some cases they don't, they just move through
12:14<goodger>ah
12:14<goodger>I wish they did that more often
12:15<petern>i wish i had food
12:16<Aali>well, if you keep enough RVs trying to go the same place (and the road is blocked so they have to stop), they will eventually end up inside each other
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>i wish i had a not so close deadline
12:17<Aali>good stuff when you stack 100 RVs at a level crossing and then crash them all at once
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>you are insane.
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>why is there no "ignore local authorities" cheat?
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12:25<@Belugas>well ... i was a bit inclined to add it, but some users insisted so much on making it a setting that it switched my good will totally off
12:25<@Belugas>and not a cheat, may i add
12:26<petern>a setting? hahaa
12:26<petern>definitely a cheat
12:26<@Belugas>indeed
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12:35<Wolf01>uhm, RV are less stupid, did you touched anything?
12:36-!-Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo
12:36<Aali>less stupid in what way?
12:36<Wolf01>now they use all the four roadstops in a claw-style vehicle station
12:37<Aali>a what now?
12:37<Wolf01>rephrase
12:38-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.170.14] has joined #openttd
12:38<Aali>what is this claw style you speak of?
12:39<Wolf01>___/_/_/
12:39<@Belugas>their tires change themselves in claws and just try to dismantle any vehicles passing by
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12:41<goodger>:)
12:44<yorick>they got multistop?
12:45<Wolf01>no, a single stop for each lane
12:45<Wolf01>or the second one will get blocked if it finish to load before the first one
12:45<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14846 /trunk/ (docs/HOWTO_compile_lang_files.txt readme.txt): -Doc: strgen hasn't been part of the trunk/release binaries for quite a while, so point to the precompiled strgen package instead.
12:49<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14847 /trunk/src/ (map.cpp map_func.h): -Codechange: generalise the circular search to search around a rectangle (PhilSophus)
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12:53<fjb>Hello
12:54<SmatZ>hello
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13:40<petern>Belugas, how did you get tortoisesvn to work with ssh?
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13:43<@Belugas>can tell you that tonigh, form home :)
13:43<@Belugas>from
13:43<@Belugas>but it si very simple, from what i recall
13:43<petern>yeah, what i read was simple but didn't work :(
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13:44<@Belugas>iirc, it requires chanching the config file on Doc and Settings\USER\Application Data\Subversion
13:44<CIA-9>OpenTTD: translators * r14848 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:44<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-05 18:44:14
13:44<CIA-9>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 11 fixed by Alrich (11)
13:44<CIA-9>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 19 fixed, 21 changed by khaloofah (40)
13:44<CIA-9>OpenTTD: danish - 40 fixed, 1 changed by ThomasA (41)
13:44<CIA-9>OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed, 25 changed by Excel20 (27)
13:44<CIA-9>OpenTTD: hebrew - 8 fixed by EScake (8)
13:45<@Belugas>ssh = plink.exe (here at work). I believe there is a tortoise equivalent
13:45<petern>hmm
13:47<petern>"Disconnected: No supported authenticatin methods available :o
13:48<@Belugas>yeah...
13:48<@Belugas>got that quite oftenly
13:50-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:50<@Belugas>and once i've been able to get it right, i had to recreate all my repos
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14:03<+glx>IIRC tortoise needs pagent
14:03<+glx>but I never used it :)
14:04<@Belugas>yup, it does
14:04<+glx>and stored connection name may matter
14:05<petern>according to what i read i don't need it :o
14:05<@Belugas>i've got it setup on my quick launch, so i only need to click on it once. The key file is passed as parameter and the paraphrase pops up
14:05<@Belugas>name connection... nope, i don't recall seeing it as a matter
14:06<petern>i'm trying named connection indeed
14:06<@Belugas>it's not reuired as per say, petern, but you'll be prompted for credential whenever you try doing stuff
14:07<petern>which is fine
14:07*petern tries with pageant anyway
14:07<petern>doesn't work :(
14:08<petern>bah, i can't see what's going on the server side either
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14:10<petern>pageant + putty works
14:12<petern>when i tell it to use plink a plink.exe cmd window pops up but nothing more :o
14:14<@Belugas>mmh.... I remember sending my public key over
14:15<petern>yeah, i have that
14:15<petern>putty logs in fine
14:15<petern>for a normal login session
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>hm... can i change the resolution of a running windows without seeing anything on the monitor?
14:16<petern>yes
14:16<petern>if you're really lucky
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, i could do it back then when i only saw gibberish when the resolution was too high, but my flatscreen monitor doesn't do that...
14:17<petern>you know what pisses me off?
14:17<petern>blog posts that say "day/month"
14:17<petern>with no year
14:17<petern>POINTLESS
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>what's the key for getting into the windows boot menu?
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14:21<insulfrog>hi
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14:22<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: iirc it's F8
14:22<Yexo>is there an easy way to get msvc to create a bundle.zip, like make bundle_zip does from within cygwin?
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that worked
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14:40<petern>anyone with admin on secure?
14:43<@Belugas>not me
14:43<@Belugas>Rubidium and TrueBrain are the only ones. i believe
14:47<@Belugas>not nice... i still have one ear completely blocked by this infection i caugh. so listening to music is...not enjoyable
14:51<petern>urgbh
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>bah, handling two computers with two keyboards and one monitor is... annoying
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>especially i can't get that second computer to choose a widescreen resolution
15:01<@Rubidium>petern: what do you need?
15:01<petern>i can't tell if this thing is even attempting to login :/
15:02<petern>tortoisesvn + ssh that is
15:03<@Rubidium>petern: last ssh session is from 19:07 UTC
15:03<@Rubidium>so roughly one hour ago
15:03<petern>no failed logins? :o
15:04<@Rubidium>no
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>argh... fuck this...
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>how can i remote login into windows from linux?
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15:06<petern>hmm, ttdpatch uses two bytes to store rv max speed
15:06<petern>one for old and one for new
15:07<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: in the "old" age there was a telnet server installed with Windows
15:07<petern>use rdesktop?
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>preferably graphical, and preferably using the preinstalled windows remote stuff
15:07<petern>i can store it in one uint16 but grfs may assume they can set the new then the old, which'll work differently
15:07<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: then definitely rdesktop
15:07<petern>so should i just create another uint8 for a new max speed?
15:08<Ctibor>EddizuHause: krdc supports remote desktop
15:09<petern>hmm, does krdc support ssl?
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15:11<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i think i crashed it...
15:13<petern>heh, silly programming... it keeps the lower byte so why didn't they make the new byte just the high part of a word instead of a different value in different units?
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>how can i disable the tabs in krdc?
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15:20<petern>meh, two separate values is annoying :/
15:20<frosch123>what defines, which value is used?
15:21<frosch123>or is the new one only used when "realistic acceleration" is on?
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15:22<petern>in ttdpatch, yes
15:23<@Belugas>an array then?
15:23<petern>i want to make it always use the new speed if it's set, but we can't assume the new speed is set after the old speed format
15:23<petern>otherwise it'd be much simpler to just increase the max speed to uint16
15:24<frosch123>I do not understand why you want to store both, isn't it already known which will be used on grf load?
15:24<petern>is it?
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>mäh... internet access on the work pc at home isn't as fast as internet access on the work pc at work...
15:26<petern>it is not known which order they will be in the grf file
15:26<petern>so if you only store one, it could be replaced by the old format later
15:26<frosch123>"When setting property 15, always set property 08 as well, so that the vehicle works reasonably well whether realistic acceleration is turned on or off. If property 15 is not set, the value from property 08 is used instead." <- does that mean, first setting prop 15 and then 8, that the value of 8 will override 15?
15:27<petern>if we store it in the same place, yes
15:27<frosch123>or does it initialiue 15 with zero or something like that to detect whether it has been set?
15:27<frosch123>I was asking for TTDP behaviour :)
15:27<petern>ttdpatch stores them separately, and presumably defaults to 0 for prop 15
15:27<petern>if 0 use prop 8
15:28<petern>one possibility is to abuse one of the misc flags, i think
15:29<frosch123>so you only need to know whether property 15 has already been set during loading?
15:29<petern>yes
15:29<CIA-9>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14849 /trunk/src/pbs.cpp: -Fix [FS#2478]: A train meeting its end could lead to an endless loop.
15:29<CIA-9>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14850 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2503]: Reversing a stuck train that is then not stuck anymore did not always reset the waiting timer.
15:29<CIA-9>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14851 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: A train reversing in a non-PBS block can't be stuck.
15:29<@Rubidium>petern: what about adding a static SmallMap<EngineID, uint16> _rv_new_speed and storing stuff into there (for new RVs)
15:29<CIA-9>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14852 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Feature: Automatic reversing in front of block signals can now be disabled by setting pf.wait_oneway_signal respectively pf.wait_twoway_signal to 255.
15:29<frosch123>isn't the engine data already stored in some temporary array?
15:29<@Rubidium>then when the GRF are loaded check in the map
15:29<petern>Rubidium... hmm, possible
15:29<Wolf01>!feature!
15:30<@Rubidium>IIRC it already happens for something else too
15:30<petern>that would make the rest of the code much simpler
15:30<petern>:D
15:30<petern>thanks
15:30<DaleStan>I think the question is: If speed is non-zero, was that speed set by prop 08 or prop 15?
15:31<petern>oh, hang on
15:31<petern>frosch123: you're right
15:31<petern>there's a GRFTempEngineData struct
15:31<petern>i could just put it in there
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15:31<DaleStan>If the speed was set by prop 15 (and realistic acceleration is on) then further prop 08s must not overwrite that value.
15:31<petern>DaleStan, yes, we know that :)
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: how about, instead of reversing on a PBS signal, look both ways for a new path, after the waiting timeout?
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>and then reverse if a path in the other direction has been found
15:32<SpearmintRhino>how about allowing combined through/terminus stations
15:32<SpearmintRhino>so that a train checks it can leave a platform before it enters it
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>should essentially be calling the pathfinder from the rear vehicle
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>SpearmintRhino: not as easy as it sounds
15:33<SpearmintRhino>course it is
15:33<SpearmintRhino>you're just not trying hard enough
15:33-!-tom0004 [~Tom@92.1.163.11] has joined #openttd
15:33<@Rubidium>SpearmintRhino: no YOU are not trying hard enough
15:33<SpearmintRhino>:(
15:34<@Rubidium>'cause if you would be trying hard enough you'd already have a patch for it
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>SpearmintRhino: getting the train to pick the through platform is not too difficult, PBS already has such a lookahead, but getting the reversing train to pick the terminal platform?
15:34<@Rubidium>written by yourself ofcourse
15:34<Alberth>or have come to the conclusion that it is less easy than it sounds :)
15:34-!-Fantasya [~simas068@78.59.192.248] has joined #openttd
15:34<SpearmintRhino>Eddi|zuHause: the reverser can pick any
15:34<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: maybe later, but it's certainly more work than just adding a == 255 :)
15:34<SpearmintRhino>the through train needs a through platform
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>SpearmintRhino: yes, but deciding that a train should reverse?
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15:35<@Rubidium>then there's the issue of: what is a through train and what is a train that is going to reverse
15:36<@Rubidium>with conditional orders that can be unknown at the moment you want to enter the station
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>that's what i was trying to say
15:37<Fantasya>Hi guys. happy new year! c novi godom! frohes neues jahr! laimingu naujuju metu!
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>you are like 5 days late...
15:37<petern>better late than never?
15:38<petern>right, _gted works :D
15:38<Fantasya>yea sure. better late :P
15:38<petern>bit of a 'waste' because only RVs need that extra byte, but it's temporary data anyway
15:39<Fantasya>I want to wish you all good income, more maglev constructions :)
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15:44<Alberth>Fantasya: well, less is not possible. I didn't construct any maglev last year
15:44<@Belugas>How could you forget "Bonne Année" ????
15:44<@Belugas>SHAME ON YOU!
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15:49<Alberth>Belugas: http://paste.openttd.org/178488
15:50<petern>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/rvspeed.diff
15:50<petern>(using the multistep movement code from trains)
15:51<@Belugas>hehe
15:52<+glx>Belugas: wrong encoding :)
15:52<Fantasya>Hu guys again :)
15:52<Fantasya>hi*
15:53<@Belugas>glx, i can guess. I'm not totally fully re-installed on this new pc :(
15:54-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5D51C.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
15:56<@Belugas>seems like quite decent, petern
15:58<Swallow>Is it possible/allowed to change the window number of an open window?
16:00<Wolf01>hey I have an idea: be able to build stations with at least 2 full foundations on the tile (the tile with only one corner raised... I need to put buffers on these tiles :P)
16:00<frosch123>you mean steep slopes?
16:00<Swallow>Never mind, I will use a different solution..
16:01<Wolf01>no, not steep slopes those are 2 foundations high
16:01<+glx>why would you change window number Swallow ?
16:02<frosch123>Wolf01: then I guess you want to remove the slope checks for non-track-station tiles :)
16:02<+glx>usually window number contains info about what is displayed in the window
16:02<petern>Wolf01, nope
16:02<Wolf01>why not?
16:03<petern>no-one's written it :p
16:03<+glx>Wolf01: what happens if you remove the station grf?
16:03<petern>originally the argument was that
16:03<petern>but then what happens if you remove a vehicle grf? ;)
16:03<+glx>station != vehicle :)
16:03<Wolf01>uhm... so we should allow track tiles too
16:03<+glx>fallback stuff is in the spec for them
16:03<Wolf01>problem resolved
16:04<Wolf01>:D
16:04<frosch123>when non-track-tiles become track-tiles you will get a lot traincrashes anyway :)
16:04<frosch123>who cares if they fall down the slope :p
16:04<Swallow>glx: I used tileindices to refer to either a waypoint or a signal tile, but I'm gonna revert that
16:04<Wolf01>why a train should crash?
16:05<+glx>Wolf01: TBBT with T=trac, B=buffer
16:05<Wolf01>ooooh
16:05<frosch123>I guess PBS won't be happy about that either :p
16:05<Wolf01>the same should already happen with TBT where B is the double headed buffer
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16:06<petern>do we care much if people removes grfs anyway?
16:06<petern>i'm fairly sure that in the spec you can remove vehicle grfs too
16:06<petern>ttdpatch does store details of them in the game
16:06<Wolf01>you already suggest to don't remove grfs runtime
16:07<petern>Wolf01, write a patch to allow it and i'll consider it
16:07<Wolf01>I'll try
16:07<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14853 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: rename GetClosestStationFromTile to GetClosestDeletedStation as that's what it does instead of finding non-deleted stations.
16:07<Wolf01>I hope to understand how the code for the possible slopes works
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16:08<petern>good
16:08-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd
16:08<petern>cos i didn't
16:09<Wolf01>last time I've got a great headache to try to allow vertical tracks on slopes
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16:09<frosch123>Wolf01: let it perform the airport test for non-track tiles
16:10<Wolf01>why only non track ones?
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16:11<frosch123>else trains will drive over the cliff
16:11<petern>because the current behaviour for track tiles shouldn't change
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16:13<Wolf01>but as glx said, when one removes the grf, the non-track tiles become track tiles, and one might expect to be able to build track tiles in the same slope
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>non-track-tiles should be an entirely different tile class
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>not rail rail tiles
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>s/rail//
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>s/ / /
16:15<Wolf01>indeed, non track tiles should be newobjects
16:15<frosch123>except someone wants to place objects which consists of tiles from both classes :p
16:16<Wolf01>wow 16.49MB transferred... I should update the checkout more often
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16:17<frosch123>petern: ///<
16:17<petern>oh yes
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but that is only a problem at construction time
16:20<frosch123>and destruction- and overbuilding-time
16:20<frosch123>but true, it is limited to OTTD
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>feature request: overbuilding of a station tile should not depend on town rating
16:22<Wolf01>I really agree with Eddi
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16:24<petern>write a patch
16:25<frosch123>with a configurable chance per year, that the missing building license is detected, and the building is destructed
16:26-!-vraa [~vraa@h222.77.20.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd
16:26<petern>hehe
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>lmao
16:27-!-einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:27<Wolf01>ok, the station can be built on every kind of sloped tile, and the train don't fall down
16:27<Wolf01>at least for now
16:27<petern>you did it already?
16:27<Wolf01>yep
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: not even if you continue the rail?
16:27<Wolf01>no
16:27<Wolf01>it stops at the end of the station
16:28<frosch123>SmatZ: did you change something wrt. that?
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: can you try with my middle stop patch?
16:29<Wolf01>just commented out the slope checking in the CheckFlatLandBelow function
16:29<frosch123>Wolf01: ok, the train stops, but can it continue to the next station across the cliff?
16:30<Wolf01>oh that
16:30<Wolf01>yes, it does
16:30<SmatZ>frosch123: wrt. what?
16:30<Wolf01>and it's really nice
16:30<Wolf01>we could make sloped stations!!!
16:30-!-FR^2 [frr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>sloped stations are hardly "realistic"
16:31<frosch123>SmatZ: I temporarily wondered whether end-of-line detection can handle cliffs
16:31<Wolf01>also 30° tracks
16:32<qball>what is wrong with sloped stations?
16:32<TrueBrain>they smell!!
16:32<qball>aah
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>but... i need sloped tram stations
16:33<qball>yeah
16:33<Wolf01>I'll try to make it not building the foundations and see if I can make the train behave like in a normal slope... maybe then graphics will come in a second time
16:34<SmatZ>frosch123: :-)
16:34*SmatZ understands Eddi|zuHause's needs
16:34<Wolf01>the only impossible slope is the steep slope, the one which covers 2 height levels
16:34<SmatZ>I need the same!
16:35<frosch123>Wolf01: you can build inclined foundations there
16:35<Wolf01>yes but where I find an inclined station?
16:35-!-khh [~khh_1990@062016207104.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:35<Wolf01>and then I don't need foundations
16:35<frosch123>err, maybe is pisa? you should know
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>lmao :p
16:36<frosch123>hmm, I bet pisa is the german name
16:36-!-sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
16:37<frosch123>lost again :(
16:38<frosch123>Wolf01: I meant to just call GetRailFoundation() in GetFoundation_Station()
16:38-!-sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:39<Wolf01>uhm, I'll give it a look
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16:53<Wolf01>getfoundation_station not called?
16:53<Wolf01>really uhm
16:54<Wolf01>ah, no, I was using the wrong tool
16:55<CIA-9>OpenTTD: glx * r14854 /trunk/projects/ (6 files): -Change: speedup compilation with MSVC on 'multi-processor' systems (khh)
16:55<+glx>of course generation step is still slow for release
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17:34<Wolf01>gah, it's difficult :(
17:37-!-Fantasya [~simas068@78.59.192.248] has quit []
17:37<TrueBrain>welcome to our life :)
17:42-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:46<joachim>i can't bulldoze a station cause there's a "train in the way", but there isn't
17:46<joachim>is that a known thing?
17:46<Wolf01>yes, now
17:47<Wolf01>are you really sure that there isn't a train on any of the station platforms?
17:47<joachim>oh
17:48<joachim>never mind
17:49<joachim>forgot i was using distant stations
17:51<Wolf01>svn: This client is too old to work with working copy
17:51<Wolf01>wtf?
17:51<@Rubidium>petern: next time type the right password ;)
17:51<petern>no
17:51<petern>the right username
17:52<petern>see that works
17:52<petern>just not with tortoise :(
17:52<petern>or svn
17:52<petern>er, yeah
17:52<+glx>Wolf01: what version of svn ?
17:52<Wolf01>1.4.2
17:52<Wolf01>but I use tortoise 1.5.x
17:52<@Rubidium>there's your problem
17:52<Wolf01>msys still use an old version
17:53<+glx>msys use the version you installed :)
17:53<@Rubidium>tortoise 1.5 uses svn 1.5, thus upgrades your WC as written in the readme and such
17:53<+glx>just upgrade the cli version
17:54*glx uses 1.5.4
17:57<petern>odd
17:57<Eddi|zuHause2>no, 4 is even.
17:57-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
17:57<petern>well well
17:57<petern>seems it's trying to connect to *my* server, not the correct one :o
17:58<petern>my server just locked my out :p
17:59<petern>lol
17:59<petern>fixed it
17:59<petern>it uses the host specified in the default settings instead the host specified
17:59<petern>crazytalk
18:00<SpearmintRhino>petern: updated NWM
18:00<petern>you what?
18:01<SpearmintRhino>updated 3/1/9
18:02<petern>still making no sense
18:03<SpearmintRhino>updated network west midlands for openbve
18:04<petern>oh
18:04<petern>you're sacro
18:05<SpearmintRhino>quite
18:08<SpearmintRhino>@seen WhiteRhino
18:08<@DorpsGek>SpearmintRhino: WhiteRhino was last seen in #openttd 12 hours, 55 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <WhiteRhino> Anyway, bed is calling me. >.< I'll be back tomorrow. Seeya.
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18:38<petern>hmz
18:38<petern>Perfect stop bonus: 15
18:38<petern>Late: -38
18:38<petern>never mind
18:38<petern>at least i didn't run into the buffer stop
18:38<TrueBrain>what are you playing .... :p
18:40-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1E34B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:41-!-WhiteRhino [White@modem172.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd
18:41<WhiteRhino>Evening cats and kittens.
18:43<+dihedral>wrong channel
18:44<WhiteRhino>*checks* No, it's the right one.
18:44<Aali>no cats in here
18:44<Aali>not in any sense of the word
18:45<+dihedral>WhiteRhino, try #moocows
18:45<WhiteRhino>Oh my.
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>fish go moo?
18:49<+dihedral>moo go fish!
18:50<TrueBrain>and we can only wish there are kittens here ...
18:55<frosch123>hmm, what is the correct order of calling various callback 36 and adding articulated parts
19:01<WhiteRhino>Converting all my normal track to electric..
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>takes not more than 5 mouse clicks and one keypress
19:05<WhiteRhino>Also converting trains: one was 27 years old with a max life of 21 years.
19:07<Wolf01>use autorenew
19:08<WhiteRhino>That would have renewed it as the same engine, though, right?
19:08<Aali>use autoreplace
19:12<Wolf01>autoreplace do replace immediately at the first service, if you plan to use the vehicles for long time use autorenew and set autoreplace when you need to convert all your vehicles or a specific group
19:13<@Belugas>kittens will eventually grow big, like tigers!
19:14<WhiteRhino>Almost two mil in new vehicles this year. Oy.
19:15<Aali>if only I had two mil to spend on new vehicles..
19:18-!-Mark [~M4rk@5351EC68.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:22<WhiteRhino>I just sold five steel cars and accidentally bought four wood cars and wondered why they weren't moving steel.
19:26*SpearmintRhino chases the other rhino
19:27<WhiteRhino>Gah! *hides in a tree*
19:27<SpearmintRhino>how clever...
19:27<WhiteRhino>Damn skippy.
19:28<CIA-9>OpenTTD: belugas * r14855 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Documentation: Apply some widget naming to the widget arrays. Based on Yorick's work
19:28-!-murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:34<TrueBrain>I am getting a bit over-rhino'd here ..
19:34<@Rubidium>there's one easily solution for that
19:34<TrueBrain>KICKS!
19:34<TrueBrain>yeah baby :)
19:34<TrueBrain>Rubidium: what are you doing up so late? :p
19:36-!-Woet [~woeterman@78-27-33-6.dsl.alice.nl] has joined #openttd
19:36<@Rubidium>being not able to sleep
19:36<Woet>thanks Yexo and glx
19:36<Woet>:p
19:36*TrueBrain gives Rubidium a warm glass of milk
19:37<+glx>hmm why Woet ?
19:37<Woet>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41290&p=754926#p754926
19:37<Quaver>any germans awake in here?
19:37<Woet>libSDL thing :p
19:37<@Rubidium>does receiving that milk require me getting out of bed?
19:37<Quaver>have a bit of an odd question
19:37<+glx>ha ok :)
19:38<Woet>glx, could I pm you for a minute?
19:38<@Rubidium>Quaver: only when Eddi's home ;)
19:38<SpearmintRhino>zomg a Quaver
19:38<Woet>nothing regarding support
19:38<+glx>if you want
19:38<SpearmintRhino>Quaver: it's Eddi|zuHause that you want
19:38<Quaver>SpearmintRhino: ... i'm not sure i like your new name as much as the old one
19:39<SpearmintRhino>Quaver: pfft, i happen to find it amusing
19:39<Quaver>Eddi|zuHause: don't suppose you're around are ya? ;)
19:39<TrueBrain>Quaver: try it in english ;)
19:40<WhiteRhino>Craaaap.
19:41<Quaver>TrueBrain: Hmm?
19:41<SpearmintRhino>Quaver: not sure where he is, not like him to have left
19:41<Quaver>hrm.
19:42<TrueBrain>Rubidium:
19:42<TrueBrain>- cflags_makedep="` echo "$CFLAGS" | sed 's~ /~ -~g'`"
19:42<TrueBrain>+ cflags_makedep="` echo "$CFLAGS" | sed 's~ /~ -~g'` -I\$(LANG_OBJS_DIR)"
19:42<TrueBrain>that fixes a few Makedepend 'notfounds' (table/strings.h)
19:42<TrueBrain>useful?
19:42-!-murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has joined #openttd
19:43-!-SpearmintRhino was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [get your nick back Sacro :)]
19:43<WhiteRhino>*snickers*
19:43<Wolf01>'night
19:43<WhiteRhino>Nighty.
19:43<frosch123>sacro always looked liked sirkoz
19:43-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host112-232-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
19:43-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:43<+glx>too bad he still doesn't have auto rejoin
19:44-!-ecke_ [~ecke@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: ecke_]
19:44<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: doesn't look bad to me
19:45<+glx>still it won't find system headers
19:45<TrueBrain>no, that is a problem of makedepend in general
19:45<@Belugas>sacro is better than sirkoz, if you ask me...
19:45<TrueBrain>it also shouldn't worry about those in my opinion ..
19:45<TrueBrain>the changes of those changing ...
19:45-!-Wolle [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0DCAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
19:46<TrueBrain>Rubidium: ah, found it is a change at the wrong place :)
19:47-!-Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd
19:47<Sacro>:(
19:48<+glx>you should really enable rejoin on kick :)
19:48<TrueBrain>there :)
19:48<CIA-9>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14856 /trunk/Makefile.src.in: -Fix: allow 'makedepend' to find header files in the lang-obj-dir
19:48<Sacro>glx: what irssi script is that?
19:49<Sacro>i think i have irssi-scripts installed
19:49<+glx>ask google
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>what's the occasion?
19:50<+glx>autorejoin.pl it seems
19:50<TrueBrain>glx: don't give him ideas :(
19:50<Sacro>ooh
19:50<Sacro>there, loaded :D
19:50<Sacro>KICK ME :D
19:50<+glx>TrueBrain: it's funnier to be able to kick him twice in row
19:50-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [requested]
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>fail.
19:50<welshdragon>lol
19:50-!-Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd
19:51<Sacro>that failed :(
19:51<TrueBrain>now that is a failure :)
19:51<welshdragon>@kick Sacro
19:51-!-welshdragon was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [as requested]
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>@neverkick TrueBrain
19:52<@DorpsGek>accepted
19:52<+glx>@neverkick glx
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>@praise dev-team
19:52-!-welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has joined #openttd
19:52<welshdragon>intriguing....
19:53<Aali>@all glory to the hypnotoad
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of which... wasn't there supposed to be a third futurama movie?
19:53<SmatZ>lol @ [01:50:50] *** Sacro has been kicked from the channel by DorpsGek (requested).
19:53<Aali>i think so
19:53<KenjiE20>third futurama movie? <- Bender's Big Game
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't that the second?
19:54<KenjiE20>nope, Billion Backs was 2nd
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>which was the first then?
19:54<KenjiE20>Bender's Big Score
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>hm... titles too similar...
19:55<KenjiE20>yea, just ever so slightly confusing
19:55<Sacro>Quaver: Eddi|zuHause is back :p
19:55<Quaver>Sacro: I know :P
19:56<KenjiE20>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Futurama_episodes#DVD_movies
19:56<KenjiE20>looks like there'll be a fourth too \o/
19:56<CIA-9>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14857 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/squirrel_export.awk: [NoAI] -Add: don't export functions which start with a _
19:57<welshdragon>i blame you lot for the fact i have the futurama theme song in my head
19:57<KenjiE20>movie or tv version?
19:57<welshdragon>tv version
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>there was a difference?
19:58<KenjiE20>yeah, the movie is slightly longer and has fancy effects
19:58<KenjiE20>version*
19:58<TrueBrain>freak
19:59<KenjiE20>and?
19:59<TrueBrain>conclusion, nothing else
19:59<KenjiE20>pffft, I like me geek / freakness
19:59<KenjiE20>my*
20:00*Eddi|zuHause concludes KenjiE20 is the kind of geek that cracks the alien code in the beginning of the show before the show stops airing
20:00<KenjiE20>actually, no
20:00<KenjiE20>don't think I've cracked any of them
20:01<CIA-9>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14858 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [Squirrel] -Add: allow 'throwing' an error to resume the VM, and allow resuming from that state
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>apparently, there were those instances
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>hm... one too many instances of "resume"
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>possible causes: 1st "resume" should actually say "suspend"
20:03<Sacro>Quaver: swannington has a level crossing, as does coalville D:
20:03<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: shit happens
20:04<Quaver>Sacro: yes
20:05<Sacro>Quaver: only a disused line though, not much uses it
20:05<Sacro>hmm, swadlincote has sidings
20:05-!-Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-514c191a.l1.c5.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:07<CIA-9>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14859 /branches/noai/ (18 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange (or so I hope): introduce a callback system in such way that the NoAI Framework no longer demands threads to work correctly (but for now it is still used)
20:07<Quaver>Sacro: its just freight now, iirc
20:09<WhiteRhino>Ooh, it's almost my in-game birthday.
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>you were born in-game?
20:09<WhiteRhino>I meant my birthday, but in-game time.
20:09<SmatZ>hehe
20:09<SmatZ>I loved when it happened in TTD
20:10<SmatZ>I have several savegames (from different games) from that date :)
20:10<frosch123>were you born in a train? and are wondering which?
20:10<SmatZ>hehe
20:10<SmatZ>no, I am just strange :)
20:10<SmatZ>I also thought there will be monorails everywhere after 2000
20:11<SmatZ>but there are still regular rails being built
20:11<WhiteRhino>The reason I'm sitting on $23mil right now is because I love watching my trains go around.
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>the cost of conversion is way too little in the game
20:11<SmatZ>not talking about UFO:Enemy Unknown, or movie Demolition man... they were so wrong about their expectations :)
20:12<WhiteRhino>*gasp* X-Com: Ufo Defense? >.>
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>especially the difference between purchasing land early and purchasing land late in the game is not modelled right
20:13<SmatZ>WhiteRhino: http://www.warphammer.net/imagenes/xcom_ufo_02.jpg this one :)
20:13<frosch123>"13 monkeys" was nice
20:13<frosch123>or 12?
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>the profit vs. running costs is also way off
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>a big railway company should make only marginal profit
20:14<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: don't start talking about realism :) for more realistic running costs, you may use GRF sets
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>grfs don't help with the general model
20:14<CIA-9>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14860 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_controller.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix r14859: I just wanted revision 14860 to be mine
20:14<WhiteRhino>Been wasting $10k a year because I forgot to convert two tunnels to electric.
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>the running costs are still constant, so having 100 lines will give you 100 times the profit
20:15<SmatZ>:)
20:15<SmatZ>well
20:15<SmatZ>you are right
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>the only thing that running costs change is the duration of the early game
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>before you earn so much money that you can't spend it anymore
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>earning money should get _more_ difficult the more vehicles you have
20:16<Aali>try playing 64x64
20:16<CIA-9>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14861 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.nut src/ai/api/ai_object.cpp): [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: set the default roadtype to INVALID. Set it yourself, or you won't be able to build any road-stuff!! (using AIRoad.SetCurrentRoadType()) (Yexo)
20:17<Eddi|zuHause>i had a proposition about running costs being multiplied with a factor depending on vehicle count in the forum recently
20:18<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: 64x64 does not really fit my playing style
20:18<WhiteRhino>Yeaaah, that's the one. The UFO dealy.
20:18<Aali>but it does limit your abilities to make more money simply by setting up more routes
20:19<Aali>as long as there's more cargo to transport, why shouldn't you be able to make more money?
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: but that is not what i meant.
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: the idea behind this is, the bigger your network, the higher your management overhead
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>this is absolutely not modeled in the game right now
20:20<Aali>right
20:20<Aali>that shouldn't affect running costs though
20:20<JdGordon>if you disable the electric rails, do you still get the electric trains? or is the elctric rails ore than just looks
20:20<Aali>paying maintenance for your infrastructure would be awesome though
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>well, the running cost factor was an idea to model that
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>infrastructure maintenance is also not what i mean, because that would also be "constant"
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>or "linear"
20:21<Aali>JdGordon: electric rails are more than just eyecandy
20:21<JdGordon>ok
20:21<Aali>electric engines wont run without catenary
20:22<WhiteRhino>It's sad when the only good thing on TV is Antiques Roadshow.
20:22<Aali>Eddi|zuHause: it doesn't make much sense to punish players for using alot of vehicles though
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>JdGordon: disabling electric rails makes it behave like the old game, so electrified trains exist, but they run on non-electrified tracks
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: yes, it does, it's called "game balance"
20:23<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't make sense to have players with more money than they can spend
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20:24<JdGordon>seems there are no electirc trains on the desert landscape anyway
20:24<Aali>sure, you can make waay too much money waay too easily in ottd
20:24<WhiteRhinoPSO>By the way, the rookie in that UFO screenshot is either gonna be dead really fast or lucky with a rapidfire. =P
20:24<Yexo>JdGordon: if you disable electric rails the electric trains will run on normal rail
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20:25<+glx>there never was electric engines in desert
20:25<Aali>but still, if you have alot of vehicles running good routes, why would they make less money than your upstart competitors'?
20:25<Eddi|zuHause>JdGordon: there are newgrf sets for desert, which have electric trains
20:25<+glx>Aali: more trains => more running costs
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20:28<Aali>sure but running costs per-vehicle should not increase just because you have alot of vehicles
20:28<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: let's assume that 1 vehicle can be managed by 1 train crew
20:29<Eddi|zuHause>2 vehicles then need 2 train crews, and one manager
20:29<Eddi|zuHause>4 vehicles need 4 train crews, 2 managers that manage 2 vehicles each, and one manager managing the 2 managers
20:29<Aali>sure, you can charge for that, but it should not end up as running cost
20:29<Eddi|zuHause>the more vehicles you get, the more levels of management you need
20:30<Eddi|zuHause>you end up with a tree structure of managers
20:30<JdGordon>you'll go broke quickly with that management level
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20:31<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: that is still a linear cost. For every n trains (assuming n = 2**x), you need n-1 managers
20:31<thingwath>that makes having more than some 2^small n vehicles impossible :-)
20:31-!-WhiteRhinoPSO is now known as WhiteRhino
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: yes, but a higher level manager gets more money than a lower level manager
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>if you assume that each level higher gets twice the amount of money
20:32<Yexo>ah, now we are getting somewhere :)
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>you end up with a n^2 cost
20:33<WhiteRhino>I hate trees in the temperate maps. I can't tell what's what unless I bring up the little map screen.
20:33<Aali>that will place a limit on how many vehicles you can possibly have before it all comes tumbling down under the weight of all those managers and you just can't make more money
20:33<Aali>i dont like that :/
20:33<JdGordon>except it make sense that it would get cheaper per train to run the more you have because you're management levels and services are utilized more fully
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>n^2 is of course very much, so it should be more like n^1.5 or something
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>values can be tweaked
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: welcome to bureaucracy
20:34<Aali>WhiteRhino: transparency settings, hide trees (unless you're using 0.6.3, in which case you're screwed)
20:34<JdGordon>with only 1 train it should be very expensivce to run... but once you start getting a dozen or more then everything is working at full speed/efficiency and its cheaper per train overall
20:34<WhiteRhino>I already have them transparent, but there's so freaking many they still blot out everything but the farms.
20:34<Aali>i must have missed the genre change from transport tycoon from bureaucracy tycoon
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: there is a reason why big companies start to "outsource" their minor branches
20:34<Yexo>in 0.6.3 there is an option to make transparant trees invisible iirc
20:34<Aali>err
20:34<Aali>to
20:35<Yexo>yep, under "interface", enable "Invisble trees"
20:36<WhiteRhino>Interface? o.O
20:36<Eddi|zuHause>wrench icon -> configure patches -> interface
20:36<Yexo>it's under "configure patches", under the "interface" tab
20:37<WhiteRhino>Great googa-mooga. It's beautiful.
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20:37<thingwath>It looks ugly without the trees :-/
20:38<Eddi|zuHause>there is always the "x" key ;)
20:38<thingwath>But with them, you can't see anything.
20:38<WhiteRhino>Well, there are a lot of funky like... moss-piles everywhere.
20:41<JdGordon>can industries be persuaded to supply more somehow? I've got copper ore mines dotted around the map with like 60 tonnes last month which isnt worth setting up a route for...
20:41<Yexo>provide good transportation
20:41<Yexo>or open the cheat window (ctrl+alt+c) and cheat to increase production
20:42<SmatZ>60%+ transported and 80%+ transported increases your chance of increasing production
20:42-!-vraa_ [~vraa@h222.77.20.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd
20:42<JdGordon>even when its so low to start with?
20:42<SmatZ>JdGordon: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Game_mechanics#Industry_production
20:43-!-DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-145-26-37.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
20:43<SmatZ>"It takes about 65 years to go from 100 to 2100 with bigger than 80% industry rating and about 130 years with a rating of 60-80%. "
20:44<JdGordon>ok
20:44<JdGordon>so its just a crazy amount of waiting
20:46<Aali>mostly a crazy amount of doing other stuff
20:47<Aali>but yes
20:47<Aali>it does take a while
20:47-!-vraa [~vraa@h222.77.20.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:47<Eddi|zuHause>i need a different rating mechanism
20:48<Eddi|zuHause>one that honours regular service instead of constant service
20:48<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. like a train every 30 days
20:49<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: if you have time, try to design realistic economy model, ideally with more difficulty levels - but it has to be enjoyable by players :)
20:49<Eddi|zuHause>you do know you are talking to the person that has like the worst time management skills ever...
20:49<SmatZ>ha :)
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20:56<Sacro>more rhinos :D
20:56<AngryRhino>Hate my connection.
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21:14<Aali>yay
21:14<Aali>brianettas standard is quite fun
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21:16<Aali>its still too easy to make boatloads of money though
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21:20<Westie>Does anyone know if there is a reason that no competitors are generated in the current nightly? It has been a while since I tried a nightly - I even created an empty config file with no luck
21:22<Aali>have double- and triplechecked your settings?
21:22<Aali>*have you
21:22<Aali>err
21:22<Aali>i should really go to bed
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21:23<Westie>I created a blank openttd.cfg in the directory with the nightly located - after starting the program it populates the file. I would have thought the defaults would have worked. I have tried on both easy and medium difficulties. Just thought I'd ask before submitting a bug
21:24<Aali>how long did you wait? they start at random
21:25<Westie>I tried fast forward for 3 years (they are meant to start after 6 and 3 months - easy,medium)
21:25<Aali>hmm
21:25<Westie>I also have a game just ticking by in the background - over 18 months and still no competitors
21:26<Aali>that sounds a bit odd
21:26<Westie>thats why I asked - thought there might have been something I missed
21:26<Aali>you're not playing a scenario or anything? you're sure the settings are right in-game?
21:27<Aali>the main menu settings only affect new games
21:27<Westie>yup they are good. Just created empty config, start game - then stated easy with default options - no changes made at all
21:27<Aali>let me see if i can reproduce that
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21:28<Aali>r14848?
21:28<Westie>yes
21:30-!-AngryRhino is now known as WhiteRhino
21:31<Aali>thats a negative, after about a year i have an AI with some routes
21:31<Aali>no config file
21:32<Westie>no config means it uses the one in your My documents (with windows) at least that is what the docs say. You need to create an empty openttd.cfg in the nightly directory
21:32<Aali>no, really, no config file
21:32<Aali>at all
21:33<Aali>i dont have one in my home folder
21:33<Westie>I am referring to this http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Nightly_builds#openttd.cfg
21:34<Aali>sure, thats alright
21:34<Aali>but i just ran the nightly without a config file (so it used default everything) and i have AI competitors
21:35<Westie>I've deleted the one in my docs and I'll try again
21:35<Westie>perhaps it is copying that to generate the new one?
21:36<Aali>if there is a file called openttd.cfg in the same directory as the binary, it wont use the one from my docs or whatever
21:36<Aali>or, shouldn't
21:36<WhiteRhino>ANd to think, I used to hate Goods.
21:41<Westie>I can't work it out, I deleted all the config files I could find, and I still get no AIs
21:41<Westie>something strange for me ... perhaps I'll reboot to linux and see if that helps
21:42<Westie>everytime I start the nightly version, it creates a OpenTTD directory in MyDocuments, and puts a config file in there.
21:42<Aali>its supposed to do that
21:43<Aali>shouldn't change anything
21:43<Westie>I don't know what else to look at
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21:46<Westie>I'm off to try linux
21:47<Sacro>that pisses me off
21:47<Sacro>it shouldn't use my documents
21:47<Sacro>that's not what it's there for
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21:48<Aali>Sacro: sure but you can't put anywhere else in the user directory or people wont find it
21:48<Aali>*put it
21:48<Aali>seriously
21:48<Sacro>Aali: pfft, people are idiots
21:48<Aali>i should stop typing now
21:49<Aali>no argument there
21:54*Sacro coughs
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21:59<+tokai>My Documents should be for user documents.. not random setting files
21:59<+tokai>also pisses me off on OSX where programs pollute the Documents folder
21:59<+tokai>i run a cron script which cleans it up constantly ;)
22:01<SmatZ>oh hello tokai :)
22:01<SmatZ>OTTD working fine on MorphOS?
22:01<+tokai>hello hello
22:01<+tokai>no idea :)
22:01<SmatZ>huh :)
22:01<+tokai>didn't built for a while
22:02<+tokai>old versions work obviously... dunno about trunk
22:02<SmatZ>:)
22:02<+tokai>I fear the worst :P
22:02<SmatZ>:-P
22:02<SmatZ>it should still compile with gcc2.95
22:03<SmatZ>I test it sometimes :)
22:03<+tokai>usually it breaks on C++ stuff ;)
22:03<SmatZ>yeah :)
22:03<+tokai>(that's easy said.. the whole thing is C++'ified ;)
22:12<WhiteRhino>What the... did one of my planes crash without me knowing?
22:12<SmatZ>did it?
22:12<SmatZ>bad bad plane
22:14<Sacro>bad bad rhino
22:14<murr4y>bad bad message settings
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22:16<Westie>no luck under linux either :-(
22:17<Westie>I will dig a little deeper
22:17<WhiteRhino>Hrm. $23k per flight with my Yate Haugan jets.
22:18<WhiteRhino>*gapes* Or $135k per flight for my Darwin 300.
22:19<Moodles>on a 2048x2048 map, how long does it take the 1950's planes to go from one side of the map to te other?
22:20<SmatZ>18 months?
22:20<Aali>depends on planespeed setting
22:20<SmatZ>true :)
22:21<Moodles>kinda explains why when i buy out companies, their planes arent making any money per year.. and take ages to go back to their depot so i can sell them
22:21<WhiteRhino>I think I'm working a 1024/1024.
22:22<WhiteRhino>And only using like half the map between flights.
22:22<Aali>my transrapids make £100k per run
22:22-!-grumbel [~grumbel@i577AC9FC.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
22:23<Aali>over some 200 tiles
22:25<WhiteRhino>My mail-only Darwiin 300 makes $400k a year so far.. that's pretty good I'd say. Not sure how well the three standard ones are gonna make in place of those two concorde-types.
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22:30<WhiteRhino>I take it when black smoke trails from a plane that's their version of breaking down?
22:31<Aali>they smoke and fly slower 'til next landing (and service at depot), yes
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22:36<WhiteRhino>1991, save and quit.
22:45*Sacro goes to simutransa
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22:48<Sacro>hmm
22:48<Sacro>i spy an Aali
22:52<Sacro>we need a system for upgrading airports
22:56<WhiteRhino>Wait until the planes are gone and dynamite?
22:58<WhiteRhino>Upgrading airports seems synonymous with changing the size of a railroad station. Just be quick on the dynamite and rebuild buttons so you don't lose the station name and screw up people's orders.
22:59<Sacro>yeah :\
22:59<Sacro>but iwth a train station you can nuke in/out lines
22:59<Sacro>with an airport you can't hold in a pattern
23:00<WhiteRhino>I've never had so many planes taking off and landing that it became a problem. *shrug* I like to have two, maybe three airports and four or so successful flights and then I go back to trains.
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23:03<JdGordon>using planes is cheating!
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 06 00:00:51 2009