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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-01-06

---Logopened Tue Jan 06 00:00:51 2009
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01:55<gynter>hello, any ideas why my station transportation changes to accepts wood/no longer accepts in every 2 days past 1 year?
01:55<AngryRhino>Is it possible the sawmill closed down?
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01:56<AngryRhino>How close is the station to the sawmill?
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01:56<gynter>same with gravel and brichworks (PBI and UK industries grf)
01:56<gynter>next to sawmill
01:56<WhiteRhino>Hrm. I'm not sure then.. might be part of one of the GRFs you have.
01:57<gynter>k gona wait a year more, maybe enconomics thing
01:57<WhiteRhino>Save before you fast-forward if you're planning to.
01:57<gynter>its network game
01:58<WhiteRhino>SOme people can't play network stuff well. >.>
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02:04<Eddi|zuHause><gynter> same with gravel and brichworks (PBI and UK industries grf) <- PB Industries have stockpiles, so they cannot accept an unlimited amount of raw materials
02:05<Eddi|zuHause>so when you are close to the acceptance limit, every time you deliver something, it goes beyond the stockpile, and stops accepting
02:05<gynter>hmm, might be that problem, gona put more cargo vechiles then :P
02:05<Eddi|zuHause>then, when the industry produces, the stockpile drops, and accepts again
02:05<gynter>k, thanks
02:05<Eddi|zuHause>no, you need a second saw mill, to deliver the spare wood
02:05<gynter>ah ok
02:05<gynter>gona build that then :P
02:06<Eddi|zuHause>the industry will also say low, medium or high production level
02:06<gynter>says medium for me
02:06<gynter>brickworks is near maximum
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02:32<WhiteRhino>Damn it.
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02:32<WhiteRhino>Every time I try to connect to a server game, after a few seconds I get "network disconnected."
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02:32<WhiteRhino>I can't even watch a game if I want to anymore.
02:39<WhiteRhino>There it goes again.
02:42<WhiteRhino>This is pissing me off.
02:43<Forked>got packetloss?
02:44<WhiteRhino>I dunno. I was able to play once the day after I downloaded OpenTTD, once for about half an hour the next day.. and every single other time I've tried to connect to play or to watch, it'll load the map, sit there a second or two, then bring me back to the menu.
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02:53<WhiteRhino>That multiplayer button is becoming the biggest freaking tease..
02:54<@Rubidium>WhiteRhino: it's really YOUR internet connection as many people can play OpenTTD without problems
02:55<WhiteRhino>I know, I know... *grump* Just 'cus it's a problem on my end doesn't make me wish I could play it any less.
02:55<@Rubidium>and as long as nobody with some coding/network skill can reproduce it and fix it, we can't make it any better
02:56<WhiteRhino>Allright, I'll clam up about it. =P I get to rambling sometimes.
02:57<Forked>what does your ISP say?
02:59<WhiteRhino>I haven't really talked to them. I have in the past for the occasional random cutting off it normally does and they claim it's nothing they're doing, just "noise on the line."
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03:47*dihedral has a day off today :-)
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03:58<petern>-10 deg C
03:59<mrfrenzy>pfft, we ha -22.9 sunday night ;)
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04:24<matias>mrfrenzy: here was just -10C
04:25<matias>but my car didn't like it.. need to get a new accu
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04:27<petern>what's an accu?
04:27<matias>ah, sorry.. do not know the word.. "battery"
04:28<mrfrenzy>it's a good idea to test one's battery at the end of summer ;)
04:29<mrfrenzy>because it's usually the summer heat that kills them, then you get problems when it's cold
04:29<matias>yes, i know..
04:29<matias>it loads on 1 ampere :)
04:30<mrfrenzy>so it's dead then
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04:30<mrfrenzy>if the car didn't start your ammeter on the charger should hit max
04:30<petern>simpler to fix than other problems...
04:31<matias>unfortunately shops are closed today, but at least i can get the car running.. :)
04:33<matias>hmm.. at least i learned how to play opentdd yesterday :)
04:34<matias>i'm getting 600 000 profits now (1953)
04:35<matias>ok, using pause while thinking
04:37<matias>why ai is building 2 stations for each resource?
04:37<matias>because it also builds 2 rail roads i don't think that its getting 2x profit..
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04:39<mrfrenzy>the "ai" just isn't very intelligent
04:40<matias>yes, you can see it when it builds roads and railroads
04:41<mrfrenzy>for some tips on efficient networks look here and here
04:42<matias>you should teach efficient rail roads to ai :)
04:42<mrfrenzy>more fun to play online with real people ;)
04:43<petern>finger bethbritton
04:43<petern>wrong window
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05:09<canidae>morning. is "min_players" supposed to work without much more magic than setting it, or am i missing something? i expected it to pause the game when there are less than min_players, although game is never paused (yes, dedicated server)
05:10<canidae>(running last nightly)
05:15<petern>min_players is broken currently
05:16<petern>patch network.min_active_clients works
05:16<canidae>ah, i couldn't find it in the bug tracker :)
05:16<canidae>i assume that only cares about clients?
05:16<petern>i don't know why it was renamed
05:16<petern>active_clients == players
05:17<petern>somebody thought players was ambiguous
05:18<@Rubidium>players were also what's not called companies... and then the question is: is it the amount of companies (players) or the amount of active clients (players)
05:19<canidae>also, just curious; previous nightly appeared to segfault the game when clicking advanced settings. apparently latest nightly doesn't, but i didn't see anything about it in the changelog. is this correct?
05:20<petern>you could at least have fixed the aliass
05:20<petern>as it is every server will need to reset the setting because it would've been saved with the old name
05:21<petern>canidae: r14839
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05:22<canidae>it won't show when searching as it's closed in flyspray?
05:22<@Rubidium>canidae: well... that happens when you search only the opened tasks
05:23<CIA-9>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14862 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix (r14421): min_players became min_active_clients, not min_clients
05:23<canidae>heh... not used flyspray before, familiar with trackers that show every bug per default, regardless of state. although, i should've checked better :)
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06:30<TrueBrain>morning all
06:30<Wolf01>hello TB!
06:37<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: good UTC morning to you too ;)
06:38<enra>damn - i wish it was morning here :s
06:40<TrueBrain>an UTC morning it is for all of us enra :)
06:42<TrueBrain>I am making croissants :) Yeah!
06:42<TrueBrain>I love those things :)
06:42<enra>oooh croisants!
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06:46<+dihedral>TrueBrain, got some for me too?
06:47<TrueBrain>nope; ALL MINE!!!
06:47<+dihedral>not even a wee bit from the end?
06:48<TrueBrain>haha, for the last 2 days I have been busy transfering one domain from one register to the other
06:48<TrueBrain>it finally succeeded
06:49<TrueBrain>but at the ned I was awaiting approval of the losing registar, something I should be able to do, but I couldn't find anywhere
06:49<TrueBrain>after a long while I get an email from OpenSRS allowing me to do so ... then you go to that website, and you read this:
06:49<TrueBrain>"OpenSRS Reseller" blabla "completely invisible for your clients"
06:50<TrueBrain>well .. not THAT invisible clearly :p Idiots ...
06:50<TrueBrain>even worse, then you compare the prices they use, and the ones I have been paying at the losing registar ... almost 5 dollar a year of difference ...
06:51<TrueBrain>sick ..
06:52<TrueBrain>(for the record, OpenSRS was NOT the name of my losing registar :p)
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08:04<Fantasya>Holy crap. My internet owned :DDD
08:04<Fantasya>ping ~3000 O_O
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08:05<Fantasya>F***ing supplier
08:08<petern>did anyone spot any problems with my rv speed patch?
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08:09<@Rubidium>did anyone except some Japanese test it?
08:12<@Rubidium> <- that server uses your patch
08:12<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14864 /branches/noai/ (16 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange: introduce a layer-in-between to avoid layer-breaking and move out code from the API to the AI-core (which makes much more sense)
08:13<petern>really? :o
08:13<@Rubidium>or at least one very similarly named and looking quite similar
08:13<petern>but i only posted it here last night
08:13<petern>"Japenese"? heh
08:13<petern>how do you know what patches it's running?
08:14<@Rubidium>google skills ;)
08:15<@Rubidium>the *007.rar contains your patch
08:15<@Rubidium>hmm... or did I frack up?
08:15<petern>think so, i don't see it here :)
08:16<@Rubidium>yeah, I did frack up
08:16<@Rubidium>firefox didn't show it in-browser, thus downloaded it and put it in temp where I extracted the rar at rougly the same time :(
08:16<@Rubidium>so... it's likely nobody tested it
08:17<petern>well except me
08:17<petern>but that's hardly conclusive
08:20<TrueBrain>commit it, and in less than 6 hours you have a nice test-base
08:21<@Rubidium>the patch doesn't look obviously wrong though
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08:23<petern>TrueBrain... true :p
08:23<petern>trunk is often treated a bit too sacred ;)
08:25<TrueBrain>very often ;)
08:26<@Rubidium>thus commit stuff that isn't obviously wrong, but don't commit stuff that's known wrong/bad/incorrect
08:27<TrueBrain>seems like a plan ;)
08:27*TrueBrain merges NoAI :p
08:29<@Rubidium>NoAI has a known issue with threading (IIRC)
08:29<+glx>only one?
08:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14865 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange: move the RegisterAPI to AIInstance (from AIController)
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08:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14866 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp ai_instance.hpp ai_storage.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: add svn keywords and $Id$ tags to new files
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08:55<TrueBrain>hi Belugas :) :) :)
08:56<@Belugas>ho.. Mister Croissant cooker :)
08:57<planetmaker>happy new year everyone! :)
08:58<planetmaker>Reading through the last week's commits feels like another christmas present :)
08:58<planetmaker>Two thumbs up! :)
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09:11*enra stabs his modem repeatedly with a blunt spork
09:18*qball passes enra an axe
09:21<@Belugas>and go buy a decent modem afterward ;)
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09:38<TrueBrain>qball: you know you can get 20 year of jailtime for handling an axe? :p
09:38<TrueBrain>petern: so when can we expect the rv speed commit? :p
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09:38<petern>doing work @ work right now
09:39<TrueBrain>never say never :p
09:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14867 /branches/noai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: make MSVC happy (stupid MSVC :()
09:39<Digitalfox>A bit late I know, but Happy new year everyone :)
09:39<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: then why do you say it twice in a sentence?
09:39<TrueBrain>u2 Digitalfox :)
09:39<petern>Digitalfox, early, surely
09:40<petern>359 days to go...
09:40<TrueBrain>Rubidium: sigh ................
09:40<Digitalfox>Just finished my Just finished my Draughts game in C and it's report =0
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09:40<Digitalfox>ops, double finished
09:40<petern>and it is report?
09:40<qball>TrueBrain: have so many identities
09:41<qball>no problem
09:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14868 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_storage.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: MSVC doesn't understand mixing 'struct' and 'class' .............. (I am running out of words to describe MSVC)
09:41<Digitalfox>I have to deliver the source code and a report how it was made
09:41<petern>oh, "and its report", heh
09:42<TrueBrain>haha, now I understand it too petern, tnx ;)
09:44<@Belugas>Digitalfox! Happy new Year to you too
09:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14869 /trunk/src/ (engine_type.h newgrf.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp):
09:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Feature: Allow road vehicles to move multiple steps in a tick (code based on
09:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: train movement code) and add support for RV prop 15. This gives RVs a maximum
09:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: speed of 318mph instead 79mph. This only implements higher speeds, not
09:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: 'realistic acceleration'.
09:46<petern>oh shit, i didn't make it vague and ambiguous :p
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09:56<+glx>at least you said what it is nott
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10:00<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14870 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: normal files in library dirs caused segfaults (found by Yexo)
10:01<@Belugas>what am i rejoicing for... idon't play :S
10:01<@Belugas>welll... happy for the others than :)
10:01<Sacro>petern: is the new tractive effort in?
10:01<Sacro>hi ;)
10:02<petern>for trains, no
10:02<Sacro>damn :(
10:02*Sacro will just look at the graphs then
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10:07<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14871 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Backport (r14656): use S_ISREG(x) over 'x & S_IFREG' (tnx to the good memory of glx)
10:08<Bennythen00b>Was that from a person or a bot?
10:08-!-murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:09<Bennythen00b>Why did it pop up?
10:09<@Rubidium>a person made a commit and a bot "picked it up"
10:09<@Belugas>not been there long enough he?
10:10<petern>he's been here too long
10:10<Bennythen00b>Another weird IRC channel.. :o
10:12<+dihedral>Bennythen00b, your nick really suits you!
10:12<Bennythen00b>Thanks... I think.. :P
10:12<Bennythen00b>And how do i pm people..? xD
10:13<petern>you don't
10:13<Bennythen00b>How do you know..?
10:13<petern>because i'm guessing that nobody here would want a PM from you
10:13<Bennythen00b>You sure....? ^^
10:13<+dihedral>if they want it, they will pm you!
10:13<petern>fairly :)
10:13<Bennythen00b>Am I hated here or something?....
10:14<CIA-2>OpenTTD: glx * r14872 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r14871): do the same for S_IFDIR too
10:14<+dihedral>why do you look at things so negatively?
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10:14<qball>maybe one or two don't hate you
10:14<Bennythen00b>Should I take that as a compliment?
10:14<+dihedral>if people wanted to sit in a personal conversation with eachother all the time they'd hardly hang out in an irc channel
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10:15<Bennythen00b>Hmm.. Good point.
10:16<Bennythen00b>Hey, does trunk have cargo destinisations now!?
10:17<petern>no it doesn't
10:17*[com]buster fetches popcorn
10:17<@Belugas>Unless you want to send that person money, of course...
10:17<petern>[com]buster, cup of tea please
10:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14873 /branches/noai/src/company_cmd.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: don't send an event to a company which is dying .. but do it after the company really died. Avoids silly invalid memory access ;)
10:18<[com]buster>peter: water's boiling: english tea blend or peach mango?
10:18<Bennythen00b>Why does my stations say: xx passengers en-route from xxxx?
10:18<petern>er... peach mango doesn't sound like proper tea, so english blend ;)
10:18<+dihedral>lol @ [com]buster
10:18<Bennythen00b>Waait.. Ignore me, and I MEAN IT!!!!
10:18<petern>Bennythen00b, because you've used transfer orders :D
10:18<@Rubidium>Bennythen00b: as you wish
10:19<Bennythen00b>Stop pm'ing me...
10:19<+dihedral>Bennythen00b, i think most people here will happily fulfill your wish
10:19<TrueBrain>@mode +q Bennythen00b
10:19-!-mode/#openttd [+q Bennythen00b!*@*] by DorpsGek
10:19<petern>heh, serverside ignores :D
10:19*dihedral breaths
10:19<TrueBrain>or is that mean? :p
10:19<+dihedral>that was asked for
10:19<TrueBrain>@mode -q Bennythen00b
10:19-!-mode/#openttd [-q Bennythen00b!*@*] by DorpsGek
10:20<Bennythen00b>Its gone :D
10:20<+dihedral>s/mode -q/kick/
10:20<TrueBrain>What is written with a 'h' ;)
10:20<+dihedral>TrueBrain, *an :-)
10:20<[com]buster>tea's ready, coming over? :)
10:20*dihedral chuckles
10:21<TrueBrain>[com]buster: your address again? :p
10:21<+dihedral>you surely dont have good english tea there do you?
10:21<TrueBrain>oh, that is just 45 minutes
10:21<TrueBrain>can your tea hold out that long?
10:21<[com]buster>that's why I proposed peach-mango tea
10:22*dihedral prefers pg tips
10:22<[com]buster>it'd be cold by then
10:22<TrueBrain>peach-mango, MAAK ME GEK!
10:22<[com]buster>and I have appointments later this afternoon :(
10:22<+dihedral>shove it into the microwave, TB will not notice :-P
10:23*dihedral just realized the kid is quiet :-)
10:23*qball give TrueBrain a kinder cola
10:23<Bennythen00b>Shall I start talking again? :P
10:23<qball>no no
10:23<[com]buster>go ahead, I still have the popcorn on the table
10:24<Bennythen00b>Can I have some btw?
10:24<+dihedral>good job there are logs of this drivel - for the boring days :-D
10:24<[com]buster>and no, you're today's performer
10:24<[com]buster>you can't eat and entertain, no?
10:25<[com]buster>k enough joking
10:25<+dihedral>just be glad we dont live in the days where it was still allowed to throw rotten eggs and tomatoes :-)
10:25<TrueBrain>never enough joking
10:25<Bennythen00b>Who are you talkinng about?
10:25<TrueBrain>and he is naive too :)
10:25-!-murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:25<[com]buster>I think someone missed the idea of grabbing popcorn...
10:26*dihedral 'grabbes' something else
10:26<[com]buster>error: can't lower terrain, Bennythen00b in the way
10:27<Bennythen00b><[com]buster> error: can't lower terrain, Bennythen00b in the way
10:27<+dihedral>for goodness sake!
10:27<TrueBrain>not WAT
10:27<TrueBrain>you TWAT
10:28<+dihedral>why dont you go outside, and play hide
10:28<Bennythen00b>I wont
10:28<Bennythen00b>But I have to make dinner now, so you will have some alone time :)
10:28<+dihedral>flippin heck!
10:28<Bennythen00b>Enjoy, and bye. ^^
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10:28<[com]buster>hey my popcorn isn't gone yet :(
10:29-!-evandar [~evandar@] has joined #openttd
10:29<+dihedral>[com]buster, perhaps you'll get another chance
10:31*[com]buster wonders why the resident bot was called "DorpsGek"
10:31<TrueBrain>for exactly this reason ;)
10:32<[com]buster>so that you could kick all the other madmen because you already have one?
10:33<[com]buster>Hmm, why didn't I think of that the first time
10:35-!-George [~George@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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10:38<yorick>should I worry when able to understand commented brainfuck?
10:38-!-George [~George@] has joined #openttd
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10:39<TrueBrain>yorick: no, you should worry in general
10:39*yorick worries
10:41<dsoxygen>hi there
10:42<dsoxygen>im here to offer my help about translating
10:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14874 /branches/noai/src/ (10 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange: steal more code from AIController and give it to AIInstance, making the code even more sane (still a long way to go, don't worry ;))
10:43<frosch123>"If you are interested in translating OpenTTD you should send an email with the language you want to translate and the username + password you would like to use to login to"
10:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14875 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_info_dummy.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r14874): people always tell you think AFTER you commit ..
10:44<dsoxygen>no i wont translate the game because its already done
10:44<dsoxygen>i will helt to translate your homepage and our wiki
10:44<dsoxygen>into gemany
10:44*Sacro notes 2 spelling and 2 grammer mistakes already
10:45*Aali notes Sacros spelling mistake
10:46*Rubidium notes Aali's grammar mistake ;)
10:46<dsoxygen>im sorry for this but i dont want translate in english my german is much better ;)
10:47*qball puts a grammar alert out
10:47<Aali>does that situation really require an apostrophe?
10:47-!-murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has joined #openttd
10:47<Sacro>Aali: yes, if you wish to show belonging
10:48<Aali>meh, english isn't my first language anyways :P
10:49-!-vraa [] has joined #openttd
10:50<@Rubidium>dsoxygen: translating the wiki's tricky; lots of things constantly change and then your translation will be outdated with (almost) no way of telling you it got outdated. Furthermore I don't think you should translate the whole wiki as much of the information doesn't matter for users.
10:51<dsoxygen>yes i think so to
10:51<dsoxygen>but some parts of it can be translatet
10:52<frosch123> <- write them into that forum :p
10:57<lordnokon>why does the finances window not show any income of costs for each of the year
10:57<lordnokon>but it does show your bank balance
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10:58<Aali>lordnokon: you've minimized the window
11:02<@Belugas>or you are using transfers!!!!
11:03<Aali>i assumed he meant to say income OR costs, but yes, that is another possiblity
11:05<@Belugas>never assume with new nicks around ;)
11:05<@Belugas>well... NEVER assume
11:06<lordnokon>nope its not minimized
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11:12<@Belugas>therefor, i might have spotted the problem, lordnokon :)
11:13<@Belugas>[11:03] <@Belugas> or you are using transfers!!!! <--- that
11:13<frosch123>lordnokon: when a train arrives at a station is the income amount green or yellow?
11:14<frosch123>too bad
11:15<@Belugas>mmh... right
11:15<@Belugas>then, a screenshot would be more usefull, at this point...
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11:18<petern>another cup of tea would be useful :D
11:18*qball passes petern a cup of earl grey tea
11:19*Belugas extracts himself for that comfy chair and crawls to the coffee pot
11:19<qball>clean off the funges while you are out of that chair
11:21-!-vraa [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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11:28*Belugas shakes his fungus over qball's head
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11:37-!-M4rk is now known as Mark
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11:54<yorick> chrome is quite fast :p
11:59-!-[alt]buster [] has joined #openttd
11:59-!-[com]buster [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:59-!-[alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
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12:12<@Belugas>is it?
12:13<frosch123>every fresh installation is fast :p
12:13<CIA-2>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14876 /trunk/src/pbs.cpp:
12:13<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2509] (r14849): Reserved path loop detection was broken for stations.
12:13<CIA-2>OpenTTD: Don't set the test tile to the tile the very first iteration handles. Update the test tile instead in the loop.
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12:30<Swallow>Does a function exist somewhere that can replace this:
12:30<Swallow>if (IsTileType(t, MP_RAILWAY) || IsLevelCrossingTile(t) || IsRailwayStationTile(t) || (IsTileType(t, MP_TUNNELBRIDGE) && GetTunnelBridgeTransportType(t) == TRANSPORT_RAIL))
12:31-!-|Terkhen| [] has joined #openttd
12:35<frosch123>GetTileTrackStatus ?
12:35<frosch123>But it is a very expensive function
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14877 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [Squirrel] -Add: allow a 'suspend' value, which makes Resume/Call stop executing after 'suspend' opcodes (which you can resume later)
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [Squirrel] -Fix: resuming doesn't always mean inserting a result value on the stack
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14878 /branches/noai/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs):
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: move more code from AIController to AIInstance, which makes things even more sane
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: remove the need for threads (a result of all the latest commits)
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: insert result values in a sane matter
12:37-!-Terkhen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:37<TrueBrain>NoAI no longer needs threads :) :) :) (or rather: fibers)
12:37<TrueBrain>what a happy day! :)
12:42-!-Digitalfox_ [] has joined #openttd
12:42<Forked>mmm fiber optic cables
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13:00<mortal>where are test scripts hidden away in the source?
13:00<mortal>or well in the repository
13:03-!-tom0004 [~Tom@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:03<frosch123>what do you want to test?
13:06<@Belugas>what test scripts?
13:06<@Belugas>Which sources?
13:06<@Belugas>what projects?
13:06<mortal>frosch123, I was hoping ottd could serve as an example of testing in development
13:06<@Belugas>CRISTALL BALL!! ANSWER ME!!
13:06<Forked>nothing is hidden in the source.. it's all right there ;p
13:06<mortal>Belugas, 1) I was hoping you got that 2) all of them 3) all of them
13:06<Noldo>yapf might have some
13:07<frosch123>ask the noai guys
13:07<thingwath>test what? :)
13:07<Aali>ottd "testing" consists of getting a bunch of guys to run the nightlies :D
13:07<Prof_Frink>Belugas: Should've stayed on freenose if you want christel to answer your questions.
13:07<mortal>hooray... well in that case I'm off again, looking for more pedagogical examples ;)
13:09-!-tom0004 [~Tom@] has joined #openttd
13:09<@Belugas>and good luck :)
13:10<mortal>my friend is in uni and I'm helping him with his programming course
13:10<mortal>while taking care of my own college education
13:10<@Belugas>finding test scripts for Ottd is a bit... strange... amybe NoAI has that capability, but i'm not the one to answer that
13:11<Aali>NoAI does have a regression "AI"
13:11-!-Wolle [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:11<Aali>it basically makes a log of a bunch of stuff
13:11<Aali>not sure how its used
13:12<Yexo>it executes a lot of commands and prints the results
13:12<Yexo>those results are compared to "known good" results and should be the same
13:12<Yexo>because openttd can repeat the same game over and over (as long as the same starting seed is used), this works
13:13<Yexo>every sync with trunk the "known good" result is updated
13:15-!-Bennythen00b [] has joined #openttd
13:16<Bennythen00b>Still quiet...?
13:25<Bennythen00b>Yeah, right. :)
13:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14879 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix (r14878): forgot to update the regression (a one-liner)
13:27*petern returns from walking the dogs
13:27-!-fjb [] has joined #openttd
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13:29<Bennythen00b>A human..?
13:29<@Belugas>a SONG!
13:29<goodger>belugas has gone mad
13:30<Bennythen00b>Begulas has gone bear...
13:30<goodger>call the police
13:30<Aali>he wasn't mad before?
13:30<@Belugas>well... if listening to Nine Inch Nail is going mad, than i'm mad
13:30<goodger>Aali: different type of madness
13:31<petern>headphone time :D
13:31<Prof_Frink>What's the first sign of Madness?
13:32<Prof_Frink>Suggs walking up your drive.
13:32<petern>crap, my headphones have been resting against a radiator
13:32<petern>oh well, at least they're warm
13:33<goodger>Prof_Frink: that's appalling
13:33-!-Bennythen00b_ [] has joined #openttd
13:34<Bennythen00b_>Why did my name change..?
13:34<petern>raaa, visualsvn at home :D
13:34<Prof_Frink>goodger: I aim to please.
13:34<@Belugas>Bennythen00b_, there's two of you.
13:34<@Belugas>Let me help...
13:34<goodger>Bennythen00b_: you signed in again without signing off
13:34-!-Bennythen00b was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [one too many]
13:34<goodger>Prof_Frink: you fail
13:35-!-Bennythen00b_ [] has left #openttd []
13:35-!-Bennythen00b_ [] has joined #openttd
13:35*Prof_Frink idly wonders if goodger is the opposite of a badger
13:36<goodger>Prof_Frink: no, it's my surname --- I am one of about four ben goodgers in existence worldwide, and one of the others is a famous firefox developer and google employee. guess who I am constantly asked if I am
13:36-!-De_Ghosty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:36<Prof_Frink>Are you Ben Goodger?
13:36<goodger>Prof_Frink: yes
13:37<Bennythen00b_>Are you that firefox developer?
13:37<Bennythen00b_>That FAMOUS?
13:37*goodger thinks about banging head on desk, but reconsiders and bangs Bennythen00b_'s head on desk
13:37<Bennythen00b_>Hahah.. :D
13:38-!-FR^2 [] has joined #openttd
13:38<goodger>"it is not usually your fault. consider this before blaming yourself, and then determine whom else to blame"
13:38-!-|Terkhen| [] has quit []
13:39-!-Bennythen00b_ [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]]
13:39-!-De_Ghosty [] has joined #openttd
13:39-!-Bennythen00b_ [] has joined #openttd
13:39<Bennythen00b_>OH MY GOOOOD!!!!
13:39<Bennythen00b_>NOW IM PISSED!!!
13:39*Prof_Frink takes Bennythen00b_'s beer and asks him to leave
13:39<Bennythen00b_>How do I get my name back...? :(
13:39<Yexo>Bennythen00b_: what is your problem this time?
13:40<@Belugas>mmh... and to think I though bgoofer was the inspiration of walt Disney's Goofy :S
13:40-!-Bennythen00b_ is now known as Bennythen00b
13:40<goodger>agh, the channel is being invaded by early-teenage norwegians
13:40<Bennythen00b>"_" is gone
13:41<Forked>I think I know a guy that works at his isp.. let me give him a call ;\
13:41<goodger>Forked: heh
13:42<@Belugas>I know a farmer who lives on his farm...
13:42<@Belugas>i think
13:43<Forked>ye I know, I'm not funny :\
13:43-!-Alberth [] has joined #openttd
13:44<@Belugas>naaaa.. t'
13:44<@Belugas>s not that...
13:44<@Belugas>just reminded me of some Genesis lyrics :)
13:46-!-Hirundo [] has joined #openttd
13:47<Bennythen00b>Hey, what? : Prof_Frink takes Bennythen00b_'s beer and asks him to leave
13:48<Forked>doh. I made a long tram line just to find out I can't buy at ram that carries valuables :)
13:48<Bennythen00b>I dont drink beer.. Yuck.. :P
13:48<Forked>Bennythen00b: are you above 18 years of age?
13:48<@Belugas>he prefers milk ^_^
13:48-!-curosurf [] has joined #openttd
13:48<@Belugas>haa.. there's hope
13:49<@Belugas>but you can't get drunk with coffee
13:49<goodger>Forked: that's not very fair, I have only been that age for three months
13:49<@Rubidium>Forked: that happens when you play like the default AI
13:49<Prof_Frink>Bennythen00b: You said you were pissed.
13:49<Forked>goodger: well seeing how the minimum drinking age in Norway is 18 years .. I wouldn't try to encourage a minor to drink =p
13:50<Forked>if he was older than 18, I'd just label him as insane :)
13:50<Bennythen00b>I am 13
13:50<goodger>Prof_Frink: again, dreadful
13:50<Sacro>13 eg
13:50<Sacro>that's about 1/5 of Belugas's age
13:51<+glx>13 is to young for cofee
13:51<Forked>Rubidium: nice burn. that one hurt :\
13:51-!-De_Ghosty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:51<Bennythen00b><glx> 13 is to young for cofee
13:52<@Belugas>Sacro... I DEMAND EXCUSES!!!
13:52<Sacro>Belugas: i'm full of curry
13:52<petern>I demand beer
13:52<+glx>just kick him :)
13:52<+glx>(to check if he managed to get a rejoin on kick)
13:52*petern attempts conflict resolving
13:53<Sacro>euuuurgh my ovaries
13:53-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [Freaking difference between 65 and 44!]
13:53<+glx>still no rejoin
13:53-!-Swallow [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:54<petern>is that right
13:54-!-De_Ghosty [] has joined #openttd
13:54-!-Sacro [~ben@] has joined #openttd
13:54<petern>i get a yellow/orange bar where i have changes
13:54*Sacro burps
13:54<petern>i thought i had that before, though
13:54<Sacro>Belugas: 44 eh, still fairly old :p
13:55-!-mikl [] has quit [Quit: mikl]
13:55<@Belugas>i'm as old as my earth is :) and I feel young!
13:56<@Belugas>petern, yes, it's a bit different
13:56<goodger>that doesn't mean you're young, it means you're having a mid-life crisis and are about to buy a motorcycle
13:56<@Belugas>look in the left project stuff
13:56<petern>seems to be what it tries to do normally but can't usually get exactly right
13:56<@Belugas>orange is changed, red is conflits
13:56<petern>now it can
13:56<petern>in the solution explorer there are the dots, yeah
13:57-!-tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:57<@Belugas>goodger, i'd rather buy a new guitar! or a new amp... or an effect rack...
13:57<@Belugas>not a bike
13:57<@Belugas>no way
13:57-!-Bennythen00b is now known as Bennythen00b_-afk-
13:57<@Belugas>yeah... solution exploere... right word
13:57-!-Bennythen00b_-afk- is now known as Bennythen00b-afk-
13:57<@Belugas>should I dare???
13:57-!-Bennythen00b-afk- was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [we don't like away nicks]
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>but... riding a lovely bike through the lovely snow...
13:58<@Rubidium>Belugas: I only give you 6 points on that performance
13:58<@Rubidium>(out of 10)
13:58<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: damn you and your snow! *jealous*
13:58<petern>hmm, really nice
13:58-!-Eddi|zuHause was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [I HATE SNOW!]
13:58<@Rubidium>/kick Bennythen00b-afk- Bennythen00b-kfi-
13:59-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
13:59<+glx>I have snow
13:59-!-tokai [] has joined #openttd
13:59-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
13:59<+glx>Rubidium: it was me
13:59<goodger>glx: also your snow
13:59<goodger>and yours petern
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>we have like 10cm
13:59<@Rubidium>Belugas: then you must be happy with the new looks of the forum ;)
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>it's not mucht
14:00<+glx>it's enough to cancel flights in CDG and ORY
14:00<@Belugas>no i'm not, Rubidium.. i'm even more depressed than usual when i open it up :S
14:01<Prof_Frink>glx: But is it the wrong kind of snow?
14:01<goodger>10cm is more than I've seen since I went on holiday to finland 11 years ago
14:01<+glx>it's normal snow
14:01<@Rubidium>Belugas: why? the snow's gone
14:01<petern>Belugas, Ctrl-F5 :)
14:01<goodger>Prof_Frink: no quoting Incompitence :P
14:01<petern>it's stopped snowing but it takes ages to thaw
14:02<@Belugas>hooo.... :)
14:02*Belugas kisses orudge!
14:02<gynter>why it says too close to another industry thou multiple_industry_pre_town and same_industry_close are on?
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>gynter: newgrf industries may implement custom checks
14:03<goodger>(hi orudge, how are things? still at st andrews?)
14:03-!-FR^2 [] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...]
14:03-!-insulfrog [~trainslov@] has joined #openttd
14:03<insulfrog>hi all
14:04<Sacro>insulfrog: what about #simsig D:
14:04<insulfrog>sorry, I didn't know anyone was on
14:05<Sacro>me, welshdragon and zoe frequent it
14:05<gynter>PBI makes this custom check?
14:05<@orudge>goodger: not bad, and yep, one more semester to go
14:06<yorick>spotify finally works again here :)
14:06<goodger>orudge: goodo, going to university of kent later this year, if UCAS aren't too incompetent
14:07-!-vraa [] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
14:10<Aali>gynter: yes
14:10<@Belugas>now, if only it was so easy to get rid of stupidity on those forums...
14:12<@Belugas>orudge, how hard could it be to have a sub tropical skin?
14:12<@orudge>if somebody makes it...
14:12<@orudge>there's a Toyland skin :P
14:12<@orudge>which I pull out at Easter occasionally
14:12<@orudge>well, it's not been updated for phpBB 3
14:13<@orudge>but I may do sometime >:3
14:13<gynter>Aali, any fix to this?
14:14<Aali>what do you mean "fix this"?
14:14<Aali>its supposed to be that way
14:15<Aali>if you don't like it, don't use the newgrf
14:15<gynter>to be the way which ignores configuration? thats silly
14:17<@Belugas>no, not at all
14:17<Aali>the configuration option doesn't say that it only affects default industries, and that's a bit of a problem
14:17<@Belugas>that's the way of the grfs
14:17<Aali>but that is also the only issue here
14:19-!-TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:19<@Belugas>by definition, a grf can do about anything he wants.
14:19<@Belugas>it's a contract
14:19<@Belugas>not going to break it
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14:26<Alberth>sounds like a good idea
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14:33-!-yorick_ is now known as yorick
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14:39<Bennythen00b>Why cant I write "afk" after my nick? I am not complaining, I just want to knoe. :)
14:39-!-vraa [] has joined #openttd
14:39<Yexo>because there would be a lot of people cluttering the channel with their nick changes
14:39<goodger>a) it's long enough already; b) none of us much cares that you're going away
14:40-!-Belugas [~belugas@] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces]
14:40<Bennythen00b>So next time I should leave the channel?
14:41<Yexo>either that, or just stay in the channel with your current nick
14:41<goodger>no... just stop talking
14:41<Bennythen00b>We'll see.. :D
14:41<Yexo>if someone wants to say something to you they'll figure out soon enough you are not there
14:41<joachim>people who need to know can just /whois you
14:41<joachim>or wait for no answer :)
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14:44-!-mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>there is always the /away command, but nobody seems to actually use that...
14:46-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
14:46<edeca>Eddi|zuHause: Wait, using IRC how it is supposed to be used? Pfft.
14:46<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: that actually crashes my client sometimes
14:46<edeca>goodger: irssi! :D
14:46<goodger>quiet, you
14:47<goodger>I suffer enough monospaced white-on-black trauma as it is
14:47<petern>i set away when i'm here
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>edeca: says the person who actually is set to away :p
14:47<edeca>Eddi|zuHause: Because I'm not here!
14:47<thingwath>No, you are not here.
14:47<edeca>petern: He's not here either
14:47<petern>i chopped an onion or two about 30 minutes ago
14:47<petern>maybe more
14:47<thingwath>(If you are not hiding under the bed, I wouldn't recommend doing that.)
14:47<petern>'s still upsetting my eyes :/
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>i was about to list all people that are set to away... that would have been fun :p
14:48<edeca>petern: Got snow? (I think you're UK)
14:48<petern>yes thanks
14:48<edeca>Mm, snow.
14:48<goodger>edeca: damn you
14:48<goodger>I want snow!
14:48<edeca>goodger: Heck I'm bored of it now.
14:48<petern>it didn't snow today
14:48<edeca>Problem in the UK is that it gets to 1 or 2C, melts, then freezes again over night
14:49<petern>so we had yesterday's partly melted and refrozen slippery stuff to deal with
14:49<edeca>So you get pretty snow with a thick layer of ice
14:49<edeca>It's great fun to drive on
14:49<yorick>no snow means more ice :)
14:49<yorick>more ice means more ice-fun
14:50<goodger>problem in cornwall is that basic meteorology prevents us from having the conditions for snow --- under a depression it's too warm and under an anticyclone there's no cloud
14:50<yorick>ice-skating :)
14:50<edeca>goodger: And most of it is by the coast
14:50<edeca>I can remember snow once in 3 years near the coast :(
14:51<goodger>depends what you mean by "near"
14:51<edeca>Nearer than the midlands :)
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>cornwall... that's like the end of the world, right?
14:51<goodger>that'll do
14:51<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: you're very receptive
14:52<goodger>I'm 4 miles inland
14:52<goodger>I don't call that close to the coast
14:53<thingwath>I do.
14:53<edeca>Most of the world would
14:53<petern>there are several places called 'land's end' heh
14:53<edeca>petern: And there are several places that should be
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>wow... these GEZ letters sound more and more aggressive every time...
14:53<@Belugas>[14:52] <Eddi|zuHause> cornwall... that's like the end of the world, right? <-- don't make a fire there. Or the wall will pop
14:53<thingwath>it's a bit different when the nearest coast is 400 kilometers away
14:54<goodger>of course, the island is only 31km wide at this point
14:54<petern>my nearest coast is the thames estuary, i guess. does that count as coast?
14:54<goodger>so my perception of "inland" is a bit skewed
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>we have a tiny stream and a lake in the village, does that count as coast?
14:54<petern>you are right near the end then
14:54<edeca>petern: Mm, mine is the norfolk coast :|
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14:55<edeca>And *nobody* wants to go there
14:55<goodger>petern: actually I'm barely 45mins drive from plymouth
14:55<@Belugas>driving a PLymouth
14:55<goodger>it gets much, much thinner of course
14:56<petern>bah, why doesn't google maps have a measuring tool?
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14:57<petern>Belugas, not a particularly well known brand here
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>google maps does not work in konqueror 3.5 anymore
14:57<petern>not at all
14:57<goodger>petern: it does, under "my maps" -> "featured content"
14:57<goodger>Belugas: yeah, I've only heard of that brand through old US television
14:59<petern>hmm, the severn is 67 miles away
14:59<edeca>M4 corridor? ;)
14:59<petern>everything is much smaller when you measure as the crow flies...
14:59<petern>71 miles to the south coast
15:00<petern>60 miles to the east
15:00<edeca>Now we can pinpoint you and fling stuff!
15:00<edeca>You're pretty much in the middle of the country, I smell Swindon
15:00<edeca>(middle of the habitable, civilised country that is)
15:00<petern>quite a long way off
15:00<petern>in fact, 45 miles fof
15:01<edeca>Eh, I'm not *that* desperate to work it out, but..
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>that'll be over here...
15:01*edeca clicks google maps
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>the civilised country
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>in the centre
15:01<petern>swindon's much closer to the severn
15:02<edeca>Eddi|zuHause: You don't want to live north of Watford gap
15:02<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: swindon is absolutely not civilised
15:02<edeca>Woah, my geography is awful, Swindon is practically in wales! ;)
15:02<goodger>most of the M4 corridor is pretty uninteresting
15:02<thingwath>what you mean by 'civilised'?
15:03<edeca>Well I hope you're nearer Reading than Slough
15:03<edeca>thingwath: You know, people only have 1 head and 10 digits
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>actually... if you extrapolate the line swindon-london, you end up right here...
15:03<edeca>thingwath: Nobody carries pitchforks, civil unrest is unheard of
15:03<goodger>edeca: downplay the digits
15:03<edeca>Eddi|zuHause: Leipzig? ;)
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>close enough ;)
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15:03<thingwath>pitchforks :-)
15:03<petern>11 digits?
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15:04<petern>36 miles from watford gap
15:04<goodger>what is the watford gap?
15:04<edeca>goodger: Service station, the "start of the north"
15:04<petern>a service station on the M1
15:04<edeca>goodger: Or, to be more positive, "the end of the north"
15:04<edeca>goodger: Depends which way you're facing ;)
15:05<petern>near watford, but not the normal watford
15:05<goodger>I was born about 30 miles northnorthwest of watford
15:05<goodger>oh, I see
15:05<edeca>goodger: That's still south of watford gap probably
15:05<edeca>Whoever built the service station had pretty much no idea of geography
15:05<goodger>milton keynes woop
15:05<edeca>goodger: Woop indeed, I'm near enough there
15:06<petern>edeca: "it's near watford, let's call it watford gap" ?
15:06<petern>WRONG WATFORD
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15:06<goodger>the first time I went back there after moving to cornwall, I burst into uncontrollable laughter when reading the name "towecester" aloud..
15:06<edeca>petern: It's nearer Luton or Milton Keynes?
15:06<petern>no, it's right next to watford
15:06<edeca>goodger: Ask an American to pronounce Welwyn
15:06<edeca>petern: Oh, some tiny town? :)
15:06<@Belugas>goodger, Plymout is part of my youth, to some extend :)
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15:07<Bennythen00b>Plymouth makes nice cars :D
15:07<goodger>Belugas: you have my commiserations
15:07<petern>how would you pronounce welwyn?
15:07<@Belugas>commiserations? mmh... another new pedantic word to add to my dicto
15:07-!-De_Ghosty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:07<edeca>petern: "Wellin", not "Well win"
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15:11<goodger>edeca: try tywardreath, fowey, lostwithiel, landhydrock, liskeard, ruanlanihorne, trerulefoot, mevagissey...
15:11<goodger>cornwall is full of interesting names such as these
15:11<edeca>goodger: Mm, I always thought it was a bit weird there ;)
15:11<edeca>goodger: Good home made cider though
15:12<edeca>My cider this year has a tendancy to explode when you open the bottle
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15:14<@Belugas>means you've added a tiny bit too much sugar to the recipe :)
15:15<Forked>note to self: it's almost always user error.. even when you are the user (or a good friend of him)
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15:15<edeca>Belugas: Yeah, when I bottled it :)
15:15<edeca>Belugas: First time I tried, good fun.
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15:16<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:16<@Belugas>i'm very good at bottling
15:16<@Belugas>very leveled bottles
15:16<gynter>is it possible to transfer more than 40 mil € to other company?
15:16<@Belugas>well... at start
15:16<@Belugas>gynter, try, and tell us the results... We are dying to know :)
15:19<gynter>no no, i mean is it possible to set the amount from config?
15:19<gynter>or only hardcoded?
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15:23<frosch123>CommandCost amount(EXPENSES_OTHER, min((Money)p1, (Money)20000000LL)); <- looks pretty hardcoded
15:24<@Rubidium>frosch123: really? setting prefix to "", suffix to "€" and changing rate accordingly makes it somewhat configurable
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15:31<frosch123>yeah, I always use yoctoeuro for my bank balance
15:31<edeca>frosch123: Shame Iceland couldn't do the same
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15:34<Eddi|zuHause>iceland... does that still exist?
15:34<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: the country or the frozen food retailer?
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>food what?
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>never heard of that one
15:35<goodger>retailer? er, seller... "shop" is not quite the whole meaning, but roughly the same
15:36<goodger>frosch123: try using yottoeuros, that will cause some intriguing computer problems
15:38<petern>that's why
15:38<petern>mum's gone to iceland
15:38<goodger>that's why mum's severely constipated
15:39<goodger>"look at all this --- mini chocolatey bites, mini tarty bites, mini lardy bites, mini bite bites --- and it's only five quid per metric tonne!"
15:40<edeca>Hm, so many English jokes that could be made but wouldn't be understood by 90% ;)
15:40<goodger>edeca: most of the non-english in here have the sort of personality that looks up words in dictionaries for hours until it understands the joke
15:41<edeca>goodger: Many of them wouldn't know who waynetta slob is though ;)
15:41<goodger>well, I wouldn't know that either
15:41<edeca>goodger: You never saw Harry Enfield?
15:41<goodger>who on earth is harry enfield?
15:42<goodger>generation gap FAIL :P
15:42<edeca>goodger: Which generation are you from!
15:42<petern>LOADS A MONEY
15:42<petern>harry enfield has been on telly in the past year...
15:42<goodger>edeca: generation Y
15:43<edeca>goodger: Oh :)
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15:43<edeca>petern: His stuff last year was nonsense :(
15:43<edeca>You know you're getting old when the generation after you is on the front of the Economist, instead of your own :(
15:44<goodger>edeca: I won't be on the front of the economist for a while yet
15:44<edeca>goodger: Heh, it was the "Generation Y comes of age" article a few weeks back that made me feel old
15:45<goodger>edeca: aha
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15:45<goodger>I would be astounded to find a generation Y-er reading the economist apart from myself, but I'm a very isolated young man
15:45<edeca>goodger: So anyway, In The Night Garden was on an hour ago ;)
15:46<goodger>...having thoroughly read through harry enfield's wikipedia article I can confirm I have never seen any of his work, ever
15:46<edeca>goodger: Probably for the best
15:46<edeca>goodger: Stick to the Economist
15:46<matias>hmm.. does this actually work: last 2 pictures in
15:47<petern>technically i am generation y, though i've never heard of the term before
15:47<goodger>petern: really?
15:47*goodger feels a little less isolated
15:47<goodger>I wonder if there is a register of historic companies' first-year return on capital employed...
15:47<Nite_Owl>You know you are getting old when the naked girls in your magazine are younger then you are
15:48<edeca>petern: Technically? You either are or aren't, unless you can time travel :)
15:48<goodger>matias: they do indeed work
15:48<petern>edeca: apparently the years vary
15:48<edeca>Nite_Owl: Magawhat?
15:48<petern>goodger, well, i am 31 this year...
15:48<edeca>petern: Ar, I thought it was an 80s/90s thing
15:48<edeca>petern: Heh, I'm generation X
15:48<matias>goodger: they are missing another direction
15:49<petern>edeca: 1975 to 1978 seems to be the concesus
15:49<Nite_Owl>rather proves my point
15:49<goodger>petern: you can't be generation Y if you're 31... gen Y is 1990 onward
15:49<edeca>goodger: Yeah, I thought it was too..
15:49<edeca>goodger: But wikipedia disagrees
15:49<petern>wikipedia says since 1975...
15:49<edeca>goodger: I thought X was 80s, Y was 90s
15:49<edeca>Wikipedia disagrees with the economist and private eye too
15:49<edeca>And they're the LAW
15:50<goodger>oh, that's irritating
15:50<petern>if X is 80s, then i'm not X or Y...
15:50<goodger>the wikipedia article on generation X has a completely different definition of generation Y
15:50<Nite_Owl>does not pertain to when you were born but when you came of age
15:51<edeca>goodger: Yep, it's completely messed up
15:51<edeca>Nite_Owl: Yeah, hence generation Y came of age last year
15:51<goodger>X = 1980, Y = 1990, Z = 2000... and I'm just within Y, but my friends are all X or older
15:51<edeca>Nite_Owl: 18 years after 1990
15:51<edeca>Nite_Owl: Hence the article I was mentioning
15:51-!-fjb_ is now known as fjb
15:51*goodger can vote now. be afraid
15:52<edeca>goodger: I've got you down as a monster raving loony already
15:52-!-Bennythen00b_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:52<petern>what, libdem?
15:52<goodger>edeca: nah, goodger party will sort out this country
15:52<Sacro><3 libdem
15:52<matias>goodger: half cloverleaf seems to work both directions, but the last two pictures show a version where trains coming from left cannot turn and when turning trains come back, they have to continue to the right..
15:52<goodger>the lib dems are very nice, but can you imagine them actually running the country?
15:52<edeca>petern: No, monster raving loony as in, er, the monster raving loony party
15:53<edeca>goodger: My sentiments exactly. Libdem are excellent locally in some areas, but er,
15:53<edeca>Nick Clegg is wasted on 'em too
15:53<edeca>Give them another drunken leader and they'd be good fun again
15:53<Sacro>they are awesome in hull
15:53<petern>Nite_Owl... wait, what magazines?
15:54<goodger>my vote is wasted in cornwall also, because the lib-dems have such a huge majority and it's totally irrelevant because of our silly constituency-based electoral system wheren Labour has a majority of seats but only 35% of the vote
15:54<petern>it's because nobody lives there
15:54<goodger>petern: I think he's talking about pornograms
15:54-!-ctibor [] has joined #openttd
15:55<Nite_Owl>those paper things people looked at before there was an Internet
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15:55<goodger>petern: if cornwall's population is 5m, and 2.6m people vote for the lib dems, then the lib dems win cornwall. if 5m people vote for the lib dems, the situation is unchanged
15:56<edeca>Well er, you just described two situations where one party gets >50% of the vote
15:56<goodger>under this system, labour forms a government despite 65% of the country voting against labour
15:57<edeca>As far fewer than 65% of the country turn up to vote, I doubt that.
15:57<goodger>edeca: yes, but in both situations, the entire county of cornwall votes lib dem, as far as forming a government is concerned
15:57<goodger>edeca: 65% of voters
15:57*edeca throws proportional representation to the dogs
15:58<goodger>swiss-style parliamentary and direct democracy FTW
15:58<goodger>westminster system FTL
16:00<goodger>I wish the university of kent would hurry up and process my application
16:02<goodger>the process is not difficult --- review grades, and predicted grades, read personal statement, evaluate whether personal statement indicates psychopathy or genius, read tutor reference, then rubber-stamp "yes", "conditional" or "no" on the paper
16:02<goodger>it must take, what, about twenty minutes
16:02<edeca>Do you have no idea what academics do all day? :)
16:02<edeca>Smoke, talk, smoke, drink, ignore phones, smoke, drink, talk, ignore email, GOTO 10
16:03<goodger>edeca: these admissions officers are employed specifically to do this
16:03<edeca>goodger: Not all of them.
16:03<goodger>edeca: better "repeat until ... false", line 10 may change
16:03<edeca>goodger: Certainly where I went it was one of the tutors who did all of the work processing new students
16:04<petern>yeah but that was about 40 years ago
16:04<goodger>sodding cambridge manage to get all their applications done by january the second, why not kent? kent's job is far easier than cambridge's
16:04<edeca>petern: 40/10, yes
16:04<petern>cambridge is easy
16:05<petern>they don't have to take any stupid people to make up numbers
16:06<goodger>petern: they are swamped with tens of thousands of applications with near-identical grades (AAAA, AAAAA, or AAAAAA) and have to rank them
16:06<petern>AAAAAA > AAAAA > AAAA, etc
16:06<petern>especially if they're foreign
16:06<goodger>yeah, but they have to read the personal statements and references also
16:07<edeca>Nah, it's all opposite if they're foreign as they pay more $$$
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16:07<goodger>kent on the other hand has the simple question "will they pass the course?" which is achieved on the basis of evaluating the question "have they got 280 points and two Cs at A-level?"
16:07<goodger>which a sodding computer could do automatically
16:07<edeca>That's complete crap though. I have friends who got straight As, were accepted to Cambridge and dropped out after 3 weeks as it wasn't for them
16:08<edeca>And I know people who scraped A-levels but managed a 2:1
16:08<edeca>Anyhow, grades (whether A-level or degree) become obsolete the second you get your first job.
16:08<goodger>precisely, when you get into straight-A territories the ranking becomes impossible
16:08<edeca>goodger: Which further demonstrates how polluted the A-level pool is :)
16:09<goodger>edeca: I'll bet the words "first at Oxford" will get you a better degree than "2:1 at Oxford"
16:09<petern>goodger, did your mono stuff get fixed?
16:09<edeca>Eh, a better degree or better job?
16:09<goodger>edeca: I'm aware of that, and I have designed a replacement, but until I can execute a coup d'etat I will be forced to work within it
16:09<goodger>edeca: a better job, sorry. or a better master's degree
16:09<edeca>You designed a replacement
16:09<edeca>goodger: Everybody knows you get your masters for free if you pass at Oxbridge and pay £100 ;)
16:10<goodger>wasn't difficult, simply identifying the problems was the difficult part
16:10<edeca>Does your replacement involve pain for those who are below average?
16:10<goodger>petern: no, I'm still writing the bug description
16:11<goodger>edeca: it includes a mechanism by which the below-average never apply to a university
16:11<frosch123>George: When a industry is constructed the tiles remember whether they were build on land, sea, river or canal. (see tile property 0D and callback 2F) When the tile was sea before it will continue flooding, when it was river or canal before and the ground sprite of the tile is the plain water tile, it will draw canal/river borders. Neighbored river/canal tiles will only draw their borders when the industry tile was built on land.
16:11<frosch123>But that only works for flat tiles, not industries on shore
16:12<edeca>goodger: Harsh, universities keep many people out of the dole office for 3 years, more if they repeat! ;)
16:13<edeca>goodger: Who would work in your local Tesco?
16:14<goodger>edeca: well, I was working on the basis that people of intelligence below 108 are in fact incapable of achieving a university degree
16:14<edeca>goodger: Your system fails to account for those who are merely lazy and do badly at A-level, but have plenty of potential to succeed at university in one specific subject
16:14<goodger>the people working in my local tesco are all middle-aged women who were made redundant by the regional development agency when they demolished the town centre
16:15<SmatZ>women demolished the town centre?
16:15-!-Bennythen00b [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]]
16:15<goodger>SmatZ: I'm sure the demolition crew included at least one woman, but they were employed by the RDA
16:16<goodger>edeca: the system removes the A-levels and replaces it with a pre-degree which exhibits more focusing and, more importantly, a more valuable method of teaching and assessment than the current system
16:17<SmatZ>bye goodger :)
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16:18<goodger>it is designed to address the problems with it that lead to people like me getting DDDE at A-level, while people with no obvious capacity for useful thought get AAAAAA
16:18<goodger>(yes, that is six As)
16:19<frosch123>and who cares?
16:19*SmatZ likes benjamin
16:20<goodger>frosch123: I care, because despite technically qualifying as a genius I am not allowed access to Cambridge, unlike those above people
16:21-!-TinoM| [] has quit []
16:21<goodger>I wasn't even lazy or unmotivated
16:21<goodger>oh well
16:21-!-TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:21<frosch123>then change cambridge
16:21<goodger>hurry up, university of kent!
16:22<goodger>frosch123: I can't change cambridge, because I am not in government
16:24<edeca>goodger: Heh, I got ADDE (with no effort) and a first at uni. Go figure :\
16:24<edeca>goodger: I discovered women and weekend jobs at college and decided they were more fun
16:24<goodger>edeca: I'll bet that wasn't cambridge... what was the A?
16:25<edeca>goodger: Heh no, I studied at an old poly (hence the first?)
16:25<edeca>goodger: And the A was computing
16:25<goodger>ah, I got a D in that. I kept putting the correct answer to things
16:26<frosch123>what do you need for "computing"?
16:26*SmatZ just found slackware 10 disc 2 at one of his RWs...
16:26<edeca>frosch123: Nothing much, understand binary and be able to program in VB? Heh
16:26<goodger>i.e., the answer papers for the past papers I did were wrong, according to me, my teacher, my textbook and wikipedia
16:26<goodger>frosch123: you also have to be able to draw a 1960s CPU from memory
16:26<edeca>goodger: That's your problem. You need to get inside the exam and work out what they think they want to know.
16:27<edeca>goodger: That's how I got a first. Don't work out the correct answer, work out what they want to know.
16:27<goodger>edeca: how can I possibly know what they want to know? there are multiple incorrect answers to questions
16:28<goodger>for instance, "what is the capacity of a DVD?" correct answer is 4.7 GiB, the answer they wanted was 6.0 GB
16:28<goodger>(GCSE information technology)
16:28<edeca>goodger: Meh, it's an art, but it works.
16:28<goodger>they asked me to put the correct answer, and I have no way of telling what they think is the answer
16:29<thingwath>"what is the capacity of a DVD?" is a question for the people in your local Tesco :-)
16:30<edeca>thingwath: "One series of Scrubs" hawhawhaw
16:31<goodger>oh well, can't change it now.... will have to rely on UKC giving me a place out (I do not currently meet their entry requirements and I've no idea what my accounting teacher has put for a predicted grade)
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16:39<Eddi|zuHause>hey, it's -22°C here
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>and they talk about global warming...
16:40<edeca>Eddi|zuHause: Sheesh, we've got headlines about -7
16:40<frosch123>you should turn on the heating
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i just did that. even my computer at full load can't heat my room propely anymore
16:40<thingwath>-7 here, only
16:42<goodger>-3 here at midnight last night :S
16:42<goodger>due to clear skies -- no snow :(
16:42<goodger>oh, apparently it's -5 now
16:43<Nite_Owl>75 Fahrenheit here (Muwahahaha)
16:43<goodger>"humidity 100%" --- google might be a bit off here
16:43<SmatZ>hmm... CDs with RedHad 6.. 7... Mandrake 9... 10.. :-x
16:43<goodger>SmatZ: I've mandrivel six somewhere
16:44<petern>Nite_Owl ...
16:45<SmatZ>goodger: I think these CDs will be in trash can soon ;)
16:45<goodger>SmatZ: recycle them as home decorations
16:45*edeca goes
16:45<edeca>Later goodger / petern
16:45<petern>not particularly pretty decorations
16:45<goodger>they will be a talking point
16:45<goodger>bye edeca
16:46<Nite_Owl>I can not think in metric
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>how much is 75°F in real temperatures?
16:46<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: about 23-ish
16:46-!-Prof_Frink [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>that's a cool summer you have there
16:47<Nite_Owl>not summer just tropical
16:47<goodger>Nite_Owl: where are you?
16:48<SmatZ>goodger: maybe I will give them to my father, he has many old CDs as decoration ;) also, we are scaring birds with old CDs (but they aren't very scared :-/
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>that's one of the xkcds that i can't relate to
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>what strikes me as odd about this, though
16:49<Nite_Owl>goodger: south
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>"penis: 14cm"
16:49<goodger>Nite_Owl: obviously
16:50<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: yes, that's a joke...
16:50<goodger>do I have to dispense a withering look?
16:50<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: two litter bottle : 3L
16:51<goodger>yeah, that's odd
16:52<goodger>the US usually uses its weird customary units except for 2L drink bottles
16:52<goodger>why not have a 70-oz bottle instead?
16:52<goodger>if they want to use their obscure customary units they should be consistent
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>last time i was in the us, they had 96oz bottles
16:53<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: that's nearly 3L
16:53<goodger>hence different
16:53<+glx>350mL: soda can <-- false a can is 330mL
16:53<petern>not everywhere
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>glx: only metric cans :p
16:54<goodger>glx: a US soda can is 12 fl.oz. = 354ml
16:54<+glx>that's why they're fat
16:54<goodger>er, no, the lack of pavements is why they're fat
16:54<petern>they have pavements
16:54<petern>they drive cars on them
16:54<petern>or rather, automobiles
16:55<SmatZ>on pavements?
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>germany used to have 0,5l cans (especially for beer)
16:55<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: we have that too
16:55<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: you don't have anymore?
16:55<SmatZ>petern: interesting
16:55<goodger>petern: "automobile" is a perfectly good word for a car in the UK also
16:55<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: norway still has them
16:55<petern>pavements == road in us...
16:55<petern>goodger, yes, but car isn't in the us
16:55<SmatZ>petern: ahhh :)
16:55<goodger>petern: yes it is
16:55<+glx>but beer is better in bottles
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: they got unpopular when the government forced a return fee on them
16:55<thingwath>One beer = 500 ml.
16:55<petern>"auto" is used more
16:55<@Belugas>nope... beer is better in the throat
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16:56<petern>a beer should be 568ml, sheesh :/
16:56<goodger>1 beer = 568ml :P
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>unless you go to Köln, there "1 beer" will give you 200ml
16:56<thingwath>Uhm, where?
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>or to München, there you'll get 1l
16:57<thingwath>(that 568 thing)
16:57<petern>568ml being a pint
16:57<petern>a proper pint, not a us pint
16:58<+glx>silly imperial being not the same in different countries
16:58<petern>silly americans for messing up imperial
16:58<petern>it's hardly imperial's fault
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>PS: by that table, it is FUCKFUCKFUCKCOLD
16:58<goodger>one of the few remaining imperial measures in use in the UK
16:59<goodger>we have mph/miles [for cars], pints [for milk and beer], psi [for car tyres] and stones/pounds/feet/inches [for measuring people]
16:59<petern>and 454g for bags of sugar...
16:59<gynter>how old must company be to buy shares from?
17:00<petern>5 years i think
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17:00<+glx>if it's allowed by settings
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17:00<Eddi|zuHause>germany has very few non-metric measures still in use
17:00<goodger>that's about it, I think
17:00<goodger>petern: no, 1kg for sugar.. :S
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>funny is the pound
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>which got metrified
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>to 500g
17:01<+glx>that's the unit for baby's weight
17:01<goodger>well, that's ok
17:01<goodger>calling a half-kilo a pound because it is roughly a pound is fine
17:01<+glx>and for butter too
17:02<goodger>we would call a half-litre a pint, no doubt, if we started using metric for drinks
17:03*Sacro hates getting 14oz of drink
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>i really wonder why you didn't do that already
17:03<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: nationalists
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>cut drink content by 10%, charge same price
17:03<SmatZ>are UK and US units the same? pound, gallon, inch... ?
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>it's really a no-brainer
17:03<petern>SmatZ: no
17:03<+glx>gallon is not the same
17:03<SmatZ>that's even more confusing :(
17:03<frosch123>they wait for calling a half euro a pound
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17:03<petern>pund and inches are
17:03<petern>pounds and inches
17:03<petern>but they don't use stones
17:03<goodger>SmatZ: the pound and inch are the same, the gallon and pint are wildly different (and they don't use stones)
17:04<+glx>they have differences for volumes mainly
17:04<petern>473ml vs 568ml
17:04<SmatZ>thanks :-)
17:04<goodger>frosch123: £1 will soon be worth 0,50€ so that will be OK
17:04<petern>hence american mpgs look lower than english mpgs...
17:04<goodger>oh, we also quote our car's fuel consumption in miles per gallon
17:05<+glx>L/100Km is easier to compare I think
17:05<goodger>glx: mpg is impossible to compare because it's effectively a log scale
17:05<goodger>the difference between 19 and 20 mpg is more than the difference between 20 and 21
17:06<@Belugas>night all
17:06<petern>no it's not
17:06<petern>it's a difference of 1 mile to a gallon
17:07<goodger>ah, but if you want to compare how much fuel the two cars use, then it is different
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>how did we manage to get from cold temperatures to how far cars can go?
17:08<+glx>anyway 20L/100Km may scare them :)
17:08<thingwath>evil imperial units
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>lmao :p
17:09<thingwath>20l/100km is scary
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17:09<+glx>but usual for a big V8
17:10<goodger>19 mpg = 12.37 l/km; 20 mpg = 11.76 l/100km (0.61 less); 21 mpg = 11.20 l/100km (0.56 less)
17:10<+glx>so it's a unit for the bigger the better :)
17:11<goodger>so, changing from 20 to 21 is not as effective as changing from 19 to 20
17:12<thingwath>but still by only a tiny difference
17:13<goodger>in fact, changing from 52 to 60 mpg is the same as changing from 19 to 20 mpg
17:13<goodger>in terms of improvement in fuel consumption
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17:13<goodger>which is why this sort of scale is very bad when trying to get people to improve their cars
17:14<frosch123>then express it in improvement of propulsion
17:14<entropy>is there any mechanism of changing the minimal production of industries?
17:14<goodger>well, no, it should just be expressed in l/100km all the way through
17:14<frosch123>on in the amount of gas stations you can close
17:15<frosch123>entropy: press ctrl-alt-c and activate modifying of production
17:15<entropy>:( multiplayer
17:16<thingwath>goodger: even for a tanks or other armored vehicles? :)
17:16<+glx>co2/km doesn't mean much
17:16<+glx>it depends on L/100km
17:16<goodger>thingwath: especially
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17:17<goodger>glx: CO2/km is in fact the fundamental unit of fuel economy
17:17<goodger>a litre of diesel fuel contains more energy than a litre of gasoline
17:17<goodger>so comparing diesels and petrols on the basis of L/100km is pointless
17:17<+glx>but for common people it means nothing
17:17<petern>as i understand it, at some point some us car makers pumped extra air into the exhaust to lower the %age of bad stuff
17:17<thingwath>well, there is a myth, that tank has 100l/100km :)
17:18<+glx>thingwath: no it's true :)
17:18<thingwath>true for which tank?
17:18<goodger>thingwath: about 700 I think
17:18<goodger>for some tanks
17:18<goodger>some arbitrary tank
17:18<thingwath>(and what fuel)
17:18<Vikthor>glx: depends on which tank and terrain it ravels trough
17:19<SmatZ>and what 100km
17:19<thingwath>well, it doesn't get that low
17:19<SmatZ>combined :)
17:19<+glx>and usually the unit is L/h for those
17:19<entropy>tanks don't use gasoline :)
17:19<petern>entropy: wrong
17:19<SmatZ>indeed, glx :)
17:20<petern>when do we find a cheap source of hydrogen?
17:20<entropy>no, for example, russian T-80 have a gas turbine
17:20<thingwath>old german tanks had gasoline engines
17:21<goodger>petern: we have one now, it is harvestable cheaply from the burning of natural gas
17:21<goodger>when we run out of natural gas we will probably be forced to electrolyse water, which will have to be powered by solar or something
17:21<entropy>abd t-90 uses diesel engine
17:22<Vikthor>goodger: ehmm, natural gas is not currently much available around Europe :)
17:22<thingwath>Russia is still in Europe, partly :o)
17:23<fjb>I found the diesel consumption of the german Leopard 2 tank:
17:23<fjb>Straße: ca. 340 l/100 km, ca. 340 km
17:23<fjb>Gelände: ca. 530 l/100 km, ca. 220 km
17:23<fjb> Mittel: ca. 410 l/100 km, ca. 280 km
17:23<fjb> Standlauf: 12,5 l/h, 72–93 Stunden (bei 900–1.160 Liter Kraftstoffmenge)
17:23<Vikthor>thingwath: But most of it's gas reservers aren't anyway
17:23<Vikthor>* its and *reserves
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: if you then consider that the thing can go 120km/h
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>you need to refill twice before you reach paris :p
17:25<frosch123>verically falling
17:25<fjb>But still quite much.
17:26<thingwath>another question is how far it can go before the engine need replacement
17:28<fjb>Engine replacement in the field takes about 15 mins, so you are not delayed that much.
17:29<thingwath>new engines are expensive :)
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think the engine of the tank is the most expensive :p
17:30<fjb>Nobody considers that when buying or using military equipment. :-)
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>but i was not in a tank unit, i don't knwo
17:30<thingwath>But I want to conquer the world... and I have only very limited budget :/
17:31<goodger>thingwath: get venture capital
17:31<frosch123>no, it is important that you can get spare parts for 50 years
17:32<+glx>spare parts and people able to use them
17:32<+glx>that's a problem for nuclear plants
17:33-!-KillaloT [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- The future of IRC]
17:33<+glx>and it's even worse with increased usage of electronic components
17:33<fjb>How can I read my C-64 disks?
17:33<+glx>3" disks?
17:33<petern>with a C64
17:34<goodger>fjb: what filesystem did it use?
17:35<fjb>Standard Commodore filesystem and one has a strange filesystem aparently only used by Data Becker.
17:36<goodger>you're screwed
17:37<fjb>I thought that. But I should have some printouts of my old Basic stuff. :-)
17:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14880 /trunk/src/ (sound.cpp viewport.cpp window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: make it clear which way the FOR_ALL_WINDOWS goes (from back to front or vice versa) and make it iterate over the Window* instead of Window**.
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17:39<fjb>But that is one of the reasons why I'm still using film to capture pictures.
17:40<goodger>well, computers will be backward-compatible with CD/DVD/BluRay until the end of time
17:40<fjb>As always...
17:40<frosch123>as long as harddisk capacity increases as fast as your needs there is no problem
17:41<fjb>But you have to copy everything over and over again. Most people forget about that.
17:41<thingwath>it increases much faster, few last years :-)
17:41<petern>goodger, as i understand it the C64 disk controller was 'special' in that software could run on it
17:41<petern>and thus disks could be whatever format chosen...
17:42<frosch123>fjb: when I buy a new harddisk, I copy all data on it. That is only one task
17:42<matias>hmm.. what do you think about this one:
17:42*goodger does not know whether he will be able to remove disks from his lvm while preserving the filesystem...
17:43<fjb>And you hopefully have a second harddisk for backups.
17:43<+glx>matias: it needs signals
17:43<matias>yes, i didn't make them
17:43<matias>main line goes from left to right
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>matias: does not look very realistic to me
17:43<frosch123>fjb: including the old harddisk I have about 5 backups for the oldest data
17:44<fjb>Better only old data then none.
17:44<frosch123>and did you ever tried to read a burned cd older than 5 years
17:45<+glx>yes, no problems
17:45<frosch123>or a 3.5" floppy from middle 90s
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17:45<fjb>Depends heavily on the combination of burner and cd.
17:45<+glx>floppies are another story
17:46<frosch123>maybe, but I am happy to only store stuff on (external) harddisks
17:46<fjb>I have some difficulty to read DVDs about a year old while other three year old DVDs are fine.
17:46<matias>glx: but is it fast if i would place the signals?
17:46<frosch123>btw. 360k floppys are no problem
17:47<+glx>1.44M are worse
17:47<fjb>The sectors of 360k floppies are quite big.
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17:49<+glx>ejection system is silly
17:49<Sacro>erection system?
17:49<fjb>Btw, I'm missing gosub and return as advanced orders. :-)
17:49<goodger>Sacro: I know more about that than I probably shoul
17:53<gynter>you know that you can earn money with shares & 2 companies?
17:53<matias>glx: tried to fix Half Cloverleaf problems: join before leave, turn left to go right..
17:53<Yexo>gynter: see
17:54<Yexo>matias: it has a very slow turn in the middle
17:54<matias>Yexo: yes, it should be larger
17:54<gynter>hmm making a config option which disables money as company value would be good :P
17:54<matias>Yexo: scale up :)
17:55<Yexo>in that case: con: too big :p
17:55<matias>Yexo: half cloverleaf has worse turn.. 180 dec
17:56<Yexo>matias: were did I say the half cloverleaf was any good?
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17:56<matias>Yexo: what should i look?
17:56<Yexo> <- that is a decent one
17:57<Yexo> <- and that the best one
17:57<Yexo>depends on what you want of course
17:57<goodger>the ultimate 3-way junction demands an awful lot of space
17:57<goodger>in my experience there usually isn't that much space between towns
17:57<Yexo>in that case, try the Half Transmogrified junction
17:58<goodger>or at least stations
17:58<Yexo>better yet, don't use any pre-made junctions but just make them up on-the-fly depending on the current situation (space, hiils?, etc.)
17:58<goodger>that's very inefficient
17:59<Yexo>why is that inefficient?
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18:00<goodger>well, these designs have all been created for efficiency
18:00<goodger>presumably any attempt of mine to build a junction will be less efficient
18:00<matias>Yexo: half-spaghetti downside: turn right to turn left
18:00<Yexo>matias: since we have yapf, that is not reallly a problem anymore
18:01<Yexo>don't botter about that, just remember that turning right to turn left is not a problem
18:01<matias>ah, pathfinder
18:01<Yexo>yapf = a 'new' train pathfinder, were 'new' is a few years old now
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18:02<Yexo>goodger: that's al nice, but what if there is a mountain side I want to create a junction on? I can't use any of the standard onces without flattening the whole mountain
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>any train pathfinder available in openttd is "new"
18:03<+glx>Yexo: you gave NTP definition
18:03<+glx>yapf is Yet Another PathFinder
18:03<Yexo>glx: it was not meant to be the definition, I know what yapf (and ntp) stand for
18:04<matias>which junctions you usually use?
18:05<Aali>i'm thinking maybe having a list of pre-made junctions at the wiki isn't such a good idea
18:05<+glx>building junctions is the best part of the game for me
18:06<matias>Aali: why not? it gives you an idea how to make efficient tracks
18:06<Yexo>I agree with glx :)
18:06<Aali>its definitely a big part of the game if you like trains
18:06<Yexo>Aali: it's good to have a list to get inspiration for new players
18:06<Aali>i know
18:07<Aali>but still, you want to learn how to improvise, build something of your own :)
18:07<matias>as a new user i made individual tracks because of i didn't know how to make a good junction
18:07<Aali>thats where the fun starts
18:07<frosch123>the best part of the game is to press ctrl-v and paste the finished network over the landscape :p
18:07<fjb>I'm usually using:
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>no two of my stations ever look the same
18:08<matias>Aali: this is my own
18:08<matias>Aali: wihtou signals
18:08*Yexo still thinks it's the most fun to take a running 3-way junction and upgrade it (either make it 4-way or add an extra lane) without stopping or crashing the trains
18:09<Aali>thats not bad, speed will suffer from that 2x45 curve though :)
18:09<+glx>and click at the wrong signal :)
18:09<Yexo>that's part of the game :)
18:10<+glx>it can be fun with PBS and reserved tracks
18:10<matias>Aali: slightly longer version wouldn't have that 2x45 curve
18:12<matias>Aali: and what matters: I played the game first time 2 days ago
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18:13<matias>never seen transport tycoon before :)
18:13<matias>ah, that's not right.. never played or seen it played before
18:16<matias>where can i find how much trains slow down in turns
18:17<Aali>check out the wiki page on realistic acceleration
18:17<Aali>and welcome to the community :)
18:18<matias>ok, so i should get rid of that one..
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>how come i am the only person who almost never has "3 way junctions"?
18:19*fjb has almost never 4-way junctions.
18:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14881 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Fix (r14880): somehow make didn't think that widgets/dropdown.cpp did depend on window_gui.h...
18:20<fjb>There are many different ways to play this game. That is most of the fun in my opinion.
18:20<fjb>This is from my actual game:
18:21<Aali>Eddi|zuHause: your networks look like model railways (which is way cool) :P
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18:25<Eddi|zuHause>,%2020.%20Okt%201925.png <- i think this is one of my worst junctions...
18:26<Sacro>zomg XD
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18:27<Eddi|zuHause>indeed :p
18:27<goodger>I am inclined to agree
18:28<Aali>hmm, I only have one screenshot of a junction I've built and it's quite old by now
18:28<fjb>Fighting against Yexo's ai for water and gold:
18:28<Aali>even I get a headache just by looking at it
18:29<Aali>not all tracks are connected (and they're not supposed to be)
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>,%204.%20Sep%201925.png <- well, other parts of the network looked better than that :)
18:29<Aali>some tracks aren't even part of the junction, they just take a detour around it
18:30<fjb>Hm, DBset, reminds my of my attempts to draw some railway equipment. :-(
18:31<goodger>I like those trees
18:38<matias>ok, new try:
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>looks alright to me, for 130km/h
18:44<matias>are others faster?
18:44<[com]buster>depends on how long your trains are...
18:45<Aali>the ultimate 3-way (from the wiki) is CL3, that is, 3-tile trains dont slow down and others get the penalty for 3 tiles between two curves
18:46<Aali>your junction is CL2 right now, used to be CL1
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>matias: how about you have some trains run on it, and then judge whether it performs well enough?
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18:48<matias>does a curve slow more than a slope?
18:48<Aali>slopes only slow down if your trains aren't powerful enough ;)
18:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14882 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Change: move widgets related files to their own category (MSVC)
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18:48<Aali>while curve speed limits are constant
18:49<Aali>so it all depends on your trains, but narrow curves are usually much worse
18:57<matias>is there some statistic from curves / slopes? i think i found one today, but didn't read it
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19:04<WhiteRhino>Evening, folks.
19:05*goodger prepares the rhino gun
19:05<WhiteRhino>Heyyy now. I won't lament about my connection this time, I promise
19:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14883 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_instance.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: the order of dtors can have devastating effects when wrong .. like asserting on AITestMode when closing
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19:17<WhiteRhino>Hehe. The Toyland/Mars conversion thing uses all cat names for vehicle brands.
19:19<goodger>don't see why not
19:20<goodger>apple have named their operating systems after cats for a decade with great success
19:20<WhiteRhino>They have? o.O
19:22<FauxFaux>Leotard. Panther etc.
19:22<goodger>jaguar, panther, tiger, leopard...
19:23<WhiteRhino>I know little of apple OS's. =P
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20:39<joachim>clicking tunnel mouths should select any train in the tunnel... has that been suggested as a patch?
20:40<SmatZ>I don't remember anyone suggesting this
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20:41<joachim>ok... i think it would be useful
20:41<FauxFaux>Get to it.
20:41<goodger>I agree
20:41*SmatZ starts coding
20:42<joachim>i thought about doing it as a first thing, but wanted to know if it was already dismissed
20:43<joachim>cause it seems pretty obvious... :)
20:43<Yexo>after you suggested it, yes, by then it was obvious :)
20:43<Yexo>this is the kind if suggestion I really like. Small, easy to code but still a nice improvement
20:47<SmatZ>error: vahicle_gui.h: not a file or directory
20:47<SmatZ>‘const struct Vehicle’ has no member named ‘IsPrimatyVehicle’
20:47<SmatZ>I have typo like in every second word :-/
20:47*goodger smirks
20:48*SmatZ tests the patch
20:48<goodger>this might be a new record
20:49<goodger>from wishlist bug submission to patch commit, eleven minutes
20:50<SmatZ>I didn't say anything about commit :)
20:50<SmatZ>other devs would have to say their opinion
20:50<goodger>it was only 9 mins at that time
20:50<goodger>you might have discussed and committed it within the next two
20:51<Yexo>if you do this for trains, what about road vehicles?
20:52<SmatZ> maybe something like this
20:53<Yexo>what happens when an non-player buildable vehicle (like an ufo) is at that tile?
20:54<SmatZ>Yexo: v->IsPrimaryVehicle() returns false
20:54<SmatZ>I hope :)
20:54<SmatZ>if not, then I broke things a few commits ago :-P
20:54<Yexo>it does
20:54<SmatZ>great :)
20:55<joachim>looks good :)
21:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14884 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: simplify code responsible for opening vehicle view windows
21:05*SmatZ likes commits with more lines removed than added :)
21:05<goodger>yes, always good
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21:22<@Belugas>let's go SmatZ, let's go!
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21:26<+glx>bad Lakie :)
21:27<+glx>trying to steal your nick?
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21:37<SmatZ>Belugas: I thought everyone is sleeping :-)
21:37<SmatZ>good night for now ;)
21:38<@Belugas>night SmatZ
21:39<@Belugas>no, i'm still working
21:44<WhiteRhino>I'm awake, just doing other stuff. =P
21:50<thingwath>if have only commits with more lines removed then added, eventually we would have no code at all (oh, yes, it could really improve compile times)
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22:02*DialupRhino sighs.
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22:03<@Belugas>not a word, you promised!
22:03<WhiteRhino>I didn't say a word, I let out a breath. >.>
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22:07<@Belugas>wb Lakie
22:08<Lakie>Hi Belugas.
22:09<Lakie>Hows newObjects going?
22:09<@Belugas>working hard?
22:09<@Belugas>in restore more :)
22:10<@Belugas>i'm trying, slowly, little by little, to put things up togueter
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22:10<@Belugas>as well on code as in my mind ;)
22:10<Lakie>Thats a good plan, avoid's burning one-self out.
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22:12<@Belugas>yup yup
22:13<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: we have -23°C here
22:13<Lakie>Heh, and I thought it being -7C here was cold...
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and lovely snow ;)
22:14<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, i sympathize, 'cause i know how brutal it is :)
22:14<Lakie>That, we don't get here. :(
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22:14<Lakie>Never snows around where I live, but if you go like 10 miles away it does. ;_;
22:15<goodger>-6 here...
22:15<thingwath>-23 is almost too cold :)
22:15<goodger>Lakie: I can sympathise, no snow here either, but sometimes, 10 miles away
22:15<Sacro>no such temperature
22:15<@Belugas>Lakie, i think i'd better be at your place, honestly :)
22:15<Sacro>when i where a lad it got down to -40
22:15<Eddi|zuHause>it is actually FUCKFUCKFUCKCOLD
22:16<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: :D
22:16<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: stop whinging :p
22:16<goodger>Sacro: see the latest xkcd...
22:16<Eddi|zuHause>well, i am not inclined to going outside :p
22:16<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: we've noticed
22:17<Sacro>EGNJ 070250Z AUTO 28008KT 9999NDV OVC023/// 02/00 Q1022
22:18<@Belugas>youhou!! another bug killed!
22:19<goodger>my car has iced up inside
22:19<goodger>inconsiderate of it
22:19<Sacro>goodger: turn on the fog lights
22:19<Sacro>and the heaters
22:19<goodger>I'm not convinced the engine will start
22:19<goodger>hence heaters will not work
22:19<Sacro>ahh a french car
22:20<goodger>no, japanese
22:20<goodger>I've driven it at -1 before, but never -6
22:20<Sacro>french cars never convincingly start
22:20<goodger>anyway I'm not planning to drive it, but I can see it from my window
22:20<thingwath>my parents have french car and it is ok even at -10 :)
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22:21*goodger is quite annoyed that he filled up when petrol had been stable at 89p for _weeks_ and it immediately dropped to 82p
22:21<+glx>usual :)
22:22<+glx>the other way is true too, stable for weeks and increase when you need it
22:23<thingwath>I have to buy new season ticket.
22:24<thingwath>our kind mayor promised that they will have same price for next two years :)
22:25<+glx>I bet he lied
22:29<Eddi|zuHause>fuel usually fluctuates by around 5ct during the week here
22:30<Sacro>hmm, not sure what it is here
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23:50<lordnokon>morning everyone
23:54<lordnokon>i need help please with a couple of things
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 07 00:00:53 2009