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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-01-11

---Logopened Sun Jan 11 00:00:00 2009
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00:20<George>OTTD devs! I hope FS 2521 would not be hard to code. Could you please provide it in this nighty (or make a personal win32 version for me if you do not find it safe to put it in trunck), so I could test some ideas I have? PLEASE!
00:27<Eddi|zuHause>hm... how do i sensibly draw a graph with 700000 edges?
00:27<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: dot!
00:27<goodger>:D
00:28<Eddi|zuHause>let me specify this: with dot, so that i get an image that i can actually open in an image viewer
00:28<Eddi|zuHause>plus, not need to wait 4h till dot finishes...
00:31<goodger>yeah, I know :S
00:31<goodger>I think that might not be possible
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05:05<Wolf01>hello
05:08<@petern>George, how can 8 be 8 and -8 at the same time?
05:09<Eddi|zuHause>with goodger's bits ;)
05:10<goodger>shush
05:10<goodger>I'm trying to write a press release
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05:12<@petern>leave his bits out of it
05:29<Wolf01>which foundation uses SLOPE_N? FOUNDATION_INCLINED_Y/X (based on the axis of the track) or what?
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05:46<Alberth>petern: by interpreting the 3 bits sometimes as signed and sometimes as unsigned?
05:47<Alberth>euh 4 bits of course
05:47<planetmaker>good day OpenTTD :)
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05:52<el_en># Ich will Sternenteile essen ♪
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>good luck with that :p
05:54<planetmaker>pretty hot stuff, I guess ;)
05:55<planetmaker>Alberth: congratulations on your good re-work of the advanced settings GUI :)
05:55<Alberth>tnx
05:56<planetmaker>looks good and is nicely extensible :) - so fit for future :)
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06:07<Alberth>Nicely extensible was one of the main driving factors for this solution. Some of your thanks should also go to Rubidium for pushing me in this direction; my original approach was much more modest, but he demanded a better solution :)
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06:34<planetmaker>Hehe. Yeah, that's his way. But he's good at it :) And it's his task :)
06:38<TrueBrain>morning all :)
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06:40<planetmaker>morning TB :)
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06:50<Wolf01>uhm... I think I really need help
06:52<TrueBrain>haha ... sounds like you have a mental breakdown :)
06:52<Wolf01>I do
06:52<Wolf01>but that's another story
06:52<TrueBrain>for that there are people who get paid ;)
06:53<Wolf01>I can't get the train behave like a normal slope on stations placed on SLOPE_N/W/E/S
06:53<Wolf01>on SLOPE_NW/NE/SW/SE works like a charm
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06:53<@Rubidium>GetSlope returns the wrong value?
06:53<Wolf01>but on the first slope it doesn't
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06:54<Wolf01>seem, so
06:54<Wolf01>but the point is that I tried to copy the GetSlopeZ for tracks
06:54<Wolf01>and seem to do the same things
06:55<@Rubidium>then you're screwed and you need to screw with the train controller
06:55<Wolf01>instead of track bits I used InclinedFoundation(axis)
06:55<Wolf01>eh, instead of GetRailFoundation(tileh, GetTrackBits(tile))
06:56<@Rubidium>try converting the axis to trackbits and pass that to GetRailFoundation
06:56<@petern>right, i should try to diagnose this networking bug
06:56<@Rubidium>what networking bug?
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06:58<@petern>the one i spoke about at 9pm (GMT) yesterday
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06:59<@Rubidium>hmm... desync due to restart; seems to be related to FS#2446 I'd reckon
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07:01<Tim>Morning
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07:02<TrueBrain>morning Tim
07:02<Wolf01>oh, good, now it works
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07:03<TrueBrain>so what am I going to do this day ...
07:03<TrueBrain>hmm ..
07:04<Tim>Can we provide a wishlist? :)
07:04<TrueBrain>sure thing
07:04<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: what about having dinner?
07:04<TrueBrain>just know I am not a trunk-developer ;)
07:04<TrueBrain>that for sure, but that in 5 hours or so
07:05<Rexxars>*gasp* you're not a trunk developer?
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07:05<Tim>I thought so too...
07:05<TrueBrain>.... people are weird :)
07:06<TrueBrain>find my latest src/* commit ;) :p
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07:07<Wolf01>ok, now the hardest part: don't allow road bays to be built facing the slope :O
07:08<Tim>Hehe
07:08<Wolf01>but roadstops are allowed
07:08<Tim>Those sloped stations are cool :)
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07:09<Wolf01>the best is all works already, it only needs some little tweaking
07:09<Wolf01>*that all
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07:09<Terkhen>hello
07:10<TrueBrain>hello Terkhen
07:11<frosch123>haha, who added a screenshot of the new advanced settings to the wiki before they were shuffled another time
07:11<TrueBrain>look it up ;)
07:12<frosch123>Roujin :)
07:13<Wolf01>two new buttons might be useful now: collapse and expand all
07:16<Tim>What has been changed in comparison to that picture?
07:16<Tim>Oh wait, no, i can compile OpenTTD myself and look it up :D
07:17<frosch123>fs#2523 also sounds reasonable :p
07:17<@Rubidium>frosch123: go for it ;)
07:17<frosch123>I hoped there would pile up more first :)
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07:20<Alberth>Suddenly everybody wants to shuffle the options :D
07:21<Tim>Ofc
07:21<Tim>:)
07:21<Tim>putting all of them together like you suggested would be nice :)
07:25<TrueBrain>lot of cargodest 'bugs' :p
07:27<Alberth>Tim: I don't think there is a single solution that make everybody happy. Many settings can be put at several places.
07:28<TrueBrain>make a setting to change the settings layout
07:29*Rubidium wants a setting to disable people's stupid comments and wants it turned on
07:29<TrueBrain>@kick Rubidium granted
07:29-!-Rubidium was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [granted]
07:30<planetmaker>:D
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i think +q or +m would have been more appropriate
07:31<TrueBrain>no, doesn't keep him from receiving the comments
07:31<TrueBrain>or none of us can talk :)
07:31<TrueBrain>so this was really the only solution :)
07:33<Tim>:D
07:42<TrueBrain>I hate being bored :p I should study for this exam .. but bleh :p
07:42<Forked>could still /msg him :p
07:43<TrueBrain>Forked: if you want a /ignore, that is the way to go, yes :p
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07:43<joachim>from when is oil wells/rigs built in temperate?
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
07:45<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: you broke it :(
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>oil wells are there from the start, oil rigs start around 1970 or something
07:45<TrueBrain>I broke who?
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>IT, as in Information Technology
07:45<@Rubidium>no, the setting to disable stupid comments and the like
07:46<joachim>hm, thought so.
07:46<TrueBrain>yeah ... /invite tends to break that setting yes
07:46<joachim>no oil wells in my game though
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>you need enough water around the map, of course
07:47<joachim>for wells?
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>no, for rigs
07:49<joachim>oh, there were wells in the earlier saves. they've all closed
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07:50<Wolf01>is there a way to know the type of the station which is being built from the StationID?
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07:54<frosch123>you mean p2 of CmdBuildRailroadStation ?
07:54<Wolf01>no, I need it on CheckFlatLandBelow
07:55<frosch123>If the station is not yet built, you have to pass p2 resp. the StationSpec to it
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08:01<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: sure, i can set waiting time to infinite, but then i am still not notified about a potential deadlock
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08:16<Wolf01>ok, now it works, missing features: make vehicles following the slope on the roadstops, make the track/road of the stations following the slope and remove the foundations when not needed
08:16<@petern>-ing, twice
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08:17<George>petern: -t can't, that's why I wrote [F]. For triplet 1 byte is neded (17 values possible), for pair it is only 9, so 4 bits are enought
08:17<TrueBrain>miss features?
08:17<TrueBrain>:p
08:17<Wolf01>no, I think he meant follow-ing
08:17<TrueBrain>Wolf01: no shit? :)
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08:23<frosch123>George: read my new comment in fs?
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>well, after Miss Fortune and Miss Understanding, why shouldn't there be a Miss Feature?
08:24<George>frosch123: not yet
08:26<George>frosch123: would this work 65 * 4 01 01 01 _01_ ?
08:27<frosch123>when you specifiy only one sprite it will be used for all orientations
08:28<George>frosch123: > active vehicle and for the front (i.e. related) vehicle you can calculate a height difference to the front vehicle. -> when I have only 2 units - yes, but dolphin bus would have 6 units. I can't compare 5-th and 1-th units.
08:29<George>I mean parts
08:29<frosch123>with "related" you can always access the first one
08:29<George>hou can I calculate dH for the 4-th and 5-th parts?
08:30<frosch123>no that won't work :)
08:30<George>That's why I asked for a var
08:31<TrueBrain>planes flying backwards
08:31<TrueBrain>I love speed :)
08:32<George>And about using the fnearest part - it solves the problem with slopes, but does not with tunnels
08:33<@petern>TrueBrain?
08:33<TrueBrain>my plane was going so fast
08:33<TrueBrain>it looks like it is going backwards :)
08:33<@petern>i see
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08:37<TrueBrain>@calc 384 + 64
08:37<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 448
08:38<+glx>you're lazy (this can be done in head easily)
08:41<Wolf01>vehicles follow the slope too now, the drawing code is a bit too complicate for me, I don't know if I'm able to change it
08:46<@petern>the drawing and integrating with newgrf is the hardest part :p
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>hm... someone was discussing that yesterday:
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>object.__nonzero__(self)¶
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>Called to implement truth value testing, and the built-in operation bool(); should return False or True, or their integer equivalents 0 or 1. When this method is not defined, __len__() is called, if it is defined (see below). If a class defines neither __len__() nor __nonzero__(), all its instances are considered true.
08:48<frosch123>Wolf01: just change the call to DrawFoundation
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08:50<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: was something with 'if None' iirc
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. i know.
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>i was just mentioning it, because i stumbled over that definition
08:51<Alberth>so what's the verdict? Should we submit a bug report to Python for implementing __nonzero__() on None?
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>why the hell would you do that?
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09:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14989 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: remove a lookup table by reordering some items in english.txt (Swallow)
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09:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14990 /trunk/src/ (order_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: handle articulated RVs and trams more strictly in GetStationTileForVehicle and CanVehicleUseStation (based on idea by Swallow)
09:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r14991 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix: Command-flags is an uint32.
09:15<TrueBrain>why do trains not self-regulate themself :(
09:16<TrueBrain>how ever you distribute them .. after a while they all go after eachother to the same station :(
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>that's why you apply the timetable management patch and enable autospacing
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>or "headway"
09:17<TrueBrain>headway?
09:17<TrueBrain>and url?
09:18<@Rubidium>http://www.tt-forums.net/search.php ?
09:18<TrueBrain>Rubidium: you know I am lazy
09:19<TrueBrain>the other solution is to just put N trains on a route from station A to station B
09:19<TrueBrain>and not what I do now, from station A, to B, to C, to B, to D, to B
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>i also have no idea what the word "headway" means
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>but it does what you want it to do
09:21<frosch123>[15:21] <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you know I am lazy <- http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=headway+transport+tycoon
09:23<OwenS>letmegooglethatforyou takes far too long to type
09:25<TrueBrain>too bad the patch fails for cargodest (well, latest cargodest)
09:25*TrueBrain slaps PhilSophus .. fix that
09:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r14992 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Rename 'CheckIfAuthorityAllows' to 'CheckIfAuthorityAllowsNewStation' and unduplicate a tiny bit of code.
09:27<TrueBrain>oh well .. any sane network with PBS and cargodest becomes impossible without something like that ..
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09:32<TrueBrain>bah ... and still OpenTTD has this annoying features that at signal blocks the vehicle with the lowest vehicle ID or something goes first ..
09:32<TrueBrain>instead of the one waiting the longest ..
09:36<OwenS>More annoying is that we still have reversing at red signals
09:36<Progman>OwenS: lmgtfy.com
09:36<TrueBrain>can't you give a very high number to avoid that, OwenS?
09:36<TrueBrain>but I agree with you, yes
09:37<OwenS>Thats an excellent way to jam a network with both PBS and block signals
09:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: how hard would it be to change the problem with signals nowedays?
09:37<TrueBrain>I guess the way signals work should be changed .. and something should track how long a train is waiting ..
09:38<TrueBrain>OwenS: more annoying I find with PBS, they turn once in front of a red signal, can't find a free path reversed (as signals in my networks don't allow that), and they seem to wait for ever ....
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09:43<TrueBrain>_settings_game.pf.wait_for_pbs_path = 255 at least makes it never turn for a PBS signal ..
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09:43<frosch123>there you have your tracking how long a train has been waiting
09:44<TrueBrain>indeed
09:44<TrueBrain>so only the signal behavoir should be changed ;)
09:44<snappy>Im running openttd on mac osx, i created a dir ~/ttd and put the OpenTTD.app in there. I have a data/ dir with the GRF files and a gm dir with the GM files (they're actually symlinks to the corresponding directories after unzipping transport tycoon). Anyways, I can't seem to get the music to play. I'm finding it unclear where the .gm files should reside in the directory. Anyone mind clueing me in?
09:45<TrueBrain>anyway, bbl :)
09:46<snappy>oh nevermind, looks like it's working now.
09:49<OwenS>TrueBrain: I find they only turn in front of block signals, then get stuck in a PBS block
09:49<Aali>you can make trains never turn around in front of signals in latest trunk
09:50<Aali>@commit 14852
09:50<@DorpsGek>Aali: Commit by michi_cc :: r14852 /trunk/src (settings.cpp train_cmd.cpp) (2009-01-05 20:29:05 UTC)
09:50<@DorpsGek>Aali: -Feature: Automatic reversing in front of block signals can now be disabled by setting pf.wait_oneway_signal respectively pf.wait_twoway_signal to 255.
09:54<OwenS>Why, at Helistations, will heilos land and enter the hanger rather than landing on a platform/flying around waiting for one in the air
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09:57<frosch123>all airports with hangars do that
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10:03<OwenS>It's incredibly annoying cause my hanger fills up with choppers
10:03<OwenS>And also choppers leaving a depot lock the pads early and take forever, creaing more jams
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>time for a bigger station, i suppose
10:04<OwenS>Is there anything with more pads than a Helistation?
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>yes, if you finish newgrf_ports :p
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>honestly, i have no idea
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>i never ever built a heliport since the new airports got introduced
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>i think i never built a heliport at all in TTD
10:08*frosch123 transports valuabes by heli sometimes
10:09<SmatZ>frosch123: good idea, it is much safer... one can hijack transport van, but helis are much harder to hijack
10:10<frosch123>esp. when the heli is more valueable :p
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10:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r14993 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14957, r14975): Do not reverse the train with OT_LEAVESTATION as that breaks PBS prediction.
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>what?
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10:56<snappy>hmm, my first time playing openttd. Im trying to setup a bus service between two cities. I can't build a depot or a station?
10:57<snappy>it's greyed out, can someone fill me in as to why? I don't recall this happening in ttdlx
10:57<frosch123>no roadvehicles available yet?
10:58<frosch123>first bus of default road vehicles is available about 1930 in temperate climate
10:58<snappy>ahh
10:58<snappy>yeah i started at 1900
10:59<snappy>what was i thinking heh.
10:59<TrueBrain>you might want to consider starting in 1950
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11:17<den>hi people
11:18-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.223.232] has joined #openttd
11:18<TrueBrain>hi den
11:20*Zuu get to think of Matlab when he reads "den" in an English speaking environment
11:23*frosch123 cannot find a connection of "den" to "matlab"
11:24<TrueBrain>frosch123: Zuu is the connection :)
11:24<den>=/
11:24<@Rubidium>density for plotting stuff?
11:24<den>what you mean?
11:25<Zuu>frosch123: num and den are used as variables for what is found upper/lower of a division line.
11:25<frosch123>most important function for me was always "accumarray" or similiar...
11:28<Zuu>A quick google tells me that the step function of Matlab takes num and den as parameters.
11:30<snappy>Is there a way to bookmark a location on the map in game for easy access later? I keep forgetting which cities i build roads in
11:30<frosch123>use an additional viewport
11:30<TrueBrain>Place a sign
11:30<frosch123>it's in a submenu of the "map" icon
11:31<joachim>or sign list
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11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r14994 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#Aali]: Better handling of OT_LOADING and OT_LEAVESTATION in ChooseTrainTrack.
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11:36<snappy>ah thanks
11:37<Alberth>snappy: rename the town
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11:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14995 /branches/noai/ (229 files in 20 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14928:14994
11:46<den>who used ubuntu?
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11:52<OwenS>I use KUbuntu
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11:53<den>OwenS: where located openttd grf?)
11:53<den>i can't find)
11:54<+glx>used openttd "installer" ?
11:54<Digitalfox>I wonder if today I'll download nightly r15000... =0
11:54<den>yeap
11:54<OwenS>~/.openttd/data
11:54<den>tnx
11:54<+glx>OwenS: wrong
11:54<+glx>it's somewhere in /usr
11:54<den>glx: heh)))
11:54<OwenS>~/.openttd/data works also
11:55<+glx>but openttd grf is not there
11:55<OwenS>$locate openttd should help :p
11:55<+glx>as it's provided by openttd bundle
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11:57<den>fuck=(
11:58<den>YEAH) /usr/share/games/openttd
11:59<@Rubidium>openttd.grf means "very ancient" openttd
12:01<den>!password
12:01-!-den was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
12:01<OwenS>lol, was that automated? Or did someone /msg
12:01<TrueBrain>try it
12:01<OwenS>No thanks :P
12:01<KillaloT>omg
12:02<KillaloT>!password
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12:02<TrueBrain>stupid
12:02<KillaloT>what's openttdcoop?
12:02<OwenS>It sends invides also? :p
12:02<OwenS>http://www.openttdcoop.org
12:03<KillaloT>it's because there's some IRC commands
12:03<KillaloT>http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC_Commands
12:03<OwenS>KillaloT, I know the #ottdc IRC commands =)
12:03<TrueBrain>I know the ones here :p
12:04<KillaloT>openTDDcoop , is a version where you can run on eachothers rails? or something? :D
12:04<Zuu>KillaloT: In one sense yes, because all use the same company :)
12:05<KillaloT>ahh ok
12:05<KillaloT>unlimited money?
12:05<OwenS>One company with presently £2.3bil cash
12:05<Zuu>But it is not a special version of OpenTTD, just plain nightly versions.
12:05<frosch123>KillaloT: "Boldly building what other only dare to dream"
12:05<planetmaker>KillaloT: even single player has unlimited money after <10 years.
12:05<KillaloT>:P
12:06<TrueBrain>planetmaker: at 1024x1024 even after 1 year ... planes at 1/1 speed :)
12:06<OwenS>All legitimately earned, lots illegitimately spent on bribing local authorities
12:06<planetmaker>TrueBrain: yes, For example :)
12:06<planetmaker>But doesn't work necessarily in 1920 or so.
12:06<TrueBrain>true :)
12:06<planetmaker>So, it depends upon settings
12:06<planetmaker>or rather map
12:07<OwenS>Can I request a setting which prevents people spending > £25m? :P
12:07<Zuu>OwenS: How would that setting work?
12:07<OwenS>I don't know exactly. It would just stop people flattening maps
12:07<Zuu>Blocking all commands that result in more than 25 milion pounds?
12:08<@Rubidium>OwenS: no, because then I can't buy an icecream this summer
12:08<OwenS>Rubidium: The £ isnt that bad quite yet :p
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12:19<TrueBrain>boring
12:23<planetmaker>Zuu: does your filter signs patch require the widget focus patch or can it be used independently?
12:24<planetmaker>And: can you post a hg version? Or is that already one you posted in the tt-forums?
12:24<Zuu>planetmaker: The filter signs patch could be used without filter sign list with minor modifications.
12:24<TrueBrain>planetmaker: a 'hg' version? Are they different to 'svn' versions? :)
12:24<Zuu>without focus widget*
12:25<UFO64>what can hg do that svn wont do anyway? I
12:25<UFO64>I
12:25<planetmaker>TrueBrain: yes: patch -p1 as opposed to patch -p0 ;) And with queues the -p1 doesn't need modification
12:25<UFO64>I'd never seen it till recently, then suddenly it keeps poping up
12:25<TrueBrain>sigh ....
12:25<planetmaker>I could just put it into my queues directory without any work ;)
12:25<planetmaker>and edit the series file
12:26<Zuu>planetmaker: I have posted a hg queue patch in the tt-forums thread
12:26<TrueBrain>planetmaker: svn checkout svn:// && hg init && hg add * && hg commit && patch -p0 < yourpatch && hg diff > newpatch
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12:26<TrueBrain>planetmaker: easy as pie ;)
12:26<Zuu>for the step from widget focus to filter sign list
12:27<planetmaker>Zuu: yes. I found that. But it's not the latest one? Or did I overlook something?
12:27<Aali>TrueBrain: that makes no sense
12:27<Aali>however
12:27<Aali>hg qnew && patch -p0 < oldpatch && hg qrefresh will do nicely
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12:27<TrueBrain>Aali: might make no sense to you, works like a charm
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12:28<planetmaker>TrueBrain: not with hg queues.
12:28<TrueBrain>planetmaker: mind that you create a temporary new hg :) So all it does, is convert a -p0 patch to a -p1 patch ;)
12:28<Zuu>planetmaker: Filter Sign List has not changed since that version. After that version only changes have been done to the widget focus part.
12:28<planetmaker>there Aali certainly has the better line. But just overwriting the old diff in .hg/patches is way easier even ;)
12:28<planetmaker>Zuu: thx, ok
12:29<Zuu>Filter sign list is mostly only in misc_gui.cpp, so it is not that much affected by changes in trunk.
12:30<Zuu>planetmaker: Are you going to test it without focus or does it conflict with some other patches you use?
12:31<planetmaker>Zuu: I'm just updating my client_patches repo. The widget focus doesn't hurt there, so I would want it in along with it. The versions I have / had are old enough so that they need an update.
12:32<planetmaker>And I am somewhat confused what requirement the new releases have since january 3rd.
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12:32<energetic>What is the chance a patch gets included in the main trunk
12:32<planetmaker>where I just took the widget_focus+filter_signs from your hg queues which you posted
12:32<TrueBrain>12%
12:32<planetmaker>energetic: 0%...100%
12:33<energetic>the patch being clearly coded, and the functionality desirable?
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12:33<planetmaker>define "desirable"
12:33<energetic>lotsa ppl want it
12:33<TrueBrain>in that case: 13%!
12:33<Aali>define "clearly coded"
12:33<planetmaker>:P
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12:33<energetic>clearly coded -> coded follwing the coding guidelines
12:33<@Rubidium>"lotsa ppl want it" reduces the chance considerably
12:33<Aali>define "functionality"
12:33<Zuu>amount of changed lines are important also
12:33<Zuu>is*
12:34<@Rubidium>and the sanity of the patch
12:34<@Rubidium>and the reviewability
12:34<TrueBrain>energetic: I think it is more a question: does any developer think it is a desirable patch ;)
12:35<frosch123>chances are higher if it is a "yet another..." patch
12:35<planetmaker>hehe...
12:35<energetic>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41083 --> Kurt wants to spend a lot of time implementing a new/improved division algo. But before, he wants to know what the chances are - he doesnt want to spend all time spending effort to in the end - have nothing.
12:35<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: Or a developer can be "persuaded" that it's desirable.
12:35<planetmaker>is actually the newgrf selection gui patch desirable? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2195
12:35<TrueBrain>Prof_Frink: my banking account agree'd with you last time indeed
12:37<Zuu>planetmaker: So if I understand you, you was mostly after the two steps that I have in my patch as separate steps to just put in your hg queues easier.
12:37<planetmaker>Zuu: not really.
12:38<planetmaker>Re-reading the whole long posts, I think, I got it: it's two completely seperate things. Could be done sperately. I think I'll add them then seperately, too. Easier :)
12:39<planetmaker>The existance of the combined patch was the source of my confusion :) Now I only want the patch files as they're in your hg repo ;)
12:39<energetic>"lotsa ppl want it" reduces the chance considerably -->?
12:39<planetmaker>or rather in your .hg/patches
12:39<TrueBrain>energetic: this is not a game for the public!
12:40<planetmaker>energetic: devs do what they like. It's their fun. It's their free time. Why should they do something which they don't like?
12:40<planetmaker>They're not paid after all.
12:40<Zuu>planetmaker: I can PM you them if you like, but the widget focus one on FS should be quite similar (made with svn diff > file.patch though)
12:40<planetmaker>at least for this :)
12:41<planetmaker>Zuu: don't worry. I just do the usual thing. Just wondered whether you keep posting patches which require -p1 instead of -p0 :)
12:41<planetmaker>no biggy, though.
12:41<+glx>not a problem if you use a proper patch tool (ie not tortoise)
12:42<energetic>So if people do lots of effort creating cool or neat patches they might not end up in main trunk simply... because some devver doesnt like it?
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12:42<Zuu>hmm, I made them using svn diff > file from the base director (not src). Isn't that the favorable way to make them?
12:42<+glx>yes we have the POWER
12:42<TrueBrain>energetic: how would you like to see it?
12:42<planetmaker>glx: it's no problem :) patch -p1 or -p0 isn't difficult.
12:42-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
12:43<energetic>well first of all u guys need to understand that I really _do_ like your (all contributing ppl) efforts of openttd. This may sound a bit sharp, but I do mean that. I have already have quite some fun ewith ottd!
12:44<@Rubidium>energetic: almost *all* patches that "lotsa of ppl like" are badly coded, badly tested (if tested at all) even when they say they have tested it for months
12:45<energetic>second I think i know how oss projects work - ppl see coding as a fun thing to do. therefore they just do not want to guarantee anthing, since it creates responsiblility, and that in turn reduces the fun
12:45<@Rubidium>energetic: take a look at e.g. distant join; the amount of issues that patch had when I started to look at (when it was tested already for 9! months) was high
12:45<@Rubidium>energetic: and some of the bugs were so trivial in nature that almost everybody should've noticed it
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12:46<energetic>So please, let me ask this otherwise: what do I have to do to get something in main trunk? Give u guys all a blowjob?
12:46<energetic>no, i am kidding
12:46<TrueBrain>energetic: make a patch any of the devs like and feels like finalizing :)
12:46<planetmaker>:)
12:47<Zuu>energetic: You need to make good work your self, and don't demand things from the devs.
12:47<energetic>did I ever demand things from the devs already?
12:47<planetmaker>otherwise: make patches YOU like and play with them. Make them available to the public
12:47<Zuu>Then you one day will have a email saying your FS has been closed because it was commited.
12:47<planetmaker>and don't demand that others like it.
12:47<planetmaker>it's a good feeling actually :)
12:47<planetmaker>^^what zuu said :)
12:48-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
12:48<energetic>did I ever demand things from the devs already? --> I might have did this without realizing! So please, if this is the case, I want to know wabout it and remove that impression - which surely I can tell is false -
12:48<TrueBrain>poor energetic :)
12:49<TrueBrain>anyway, nobody can garantee you anything before there is a patch :)
12:49<@Rubidium>we don't even guarantee something committed to trunk wil stay there
12:49<Zuu>I would say nobody can guarantee it will be committed before it is committed. And even committed stuff can get removed. (like Rubidium wrote)
12:49<TrueBrain>:)
12:50<energetic>I understand. We have a patch, we have tested it. It's not ready to go in trunk. But someday it will be, i am sure.
12:50<TrueBrain>so no guarantees what so ever at any level :) haha :)
12:50<Zuu>energetic: What patch are you thinking about?
12:50<energetic>I dont want any guarantees. Just want to know what I have to do to have a patch that has the highest available chances to get into trunk.
12:51<TrueBrain>make sure to give it up for review :) You will be suprised what is wrong with it ;) haha :)
12:51<TrueBrain>and energetic, one big tip: make VERY small patches
12:51<TrueBrain>energetic: one thing per patch ... not like some people introduce N things at once ...
12:51<energetic>right
12:51<planetmaker>and have patience.
12:51<planetmaker>Patches need time to mature.
12:51<Zuu>energetic: A tips I got was to write a patch document that explains the purpose of the patch plus most important things to know of implementation.
12:52<TrueBrain>use a hg queue if needed, if one patch depends on an other
12:52<TrueBrain>but never ever combine them :)
12:52<planetmaker>Like 10-line patches may take 6 month before they are :)
12:52<frosch123>energetic: the best strategy is always to provide patches that simplify/cleanup/generalise something, which are advancious to everyone but do not change any behaviour, and which makes keeping your local version in sync easier
12:52<@Rubidium>and don't demand that something happens, because that'll send it straight to the bottom of the todo list (below all insane feature requests)
12:52<planetmaker>:)
12:53<planetmaker>small is beautiful. But then: size matters :P
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12:53<energetic>so, to conclude..: a patch - tested in production with a lot of ppl, only focused on _one_ subject/bug/whatever, as small as possible, have good documentation, follows coding guidelines, have backward compatibility,
12:53<planetmaker>best chances, yes.
12:54<TrueBrain>and make sure to give it up for review from time to time :)
12:54<frosch123>and no conflicst with more general future plans of someone else :p
12:54<energetic>preferably coming with a free blowjob and a bank account positive thing.
12:54<planetmaker>:P
12:54<TrueBrain>I rather have a girl giving me a blowjob
12:54<TrueBrain>but that is just me
12:54<TrueBrain>frosch123: lol :)
12:54<energetic>lol
12:54<planetmaker>sure. But blowjobs are desirable by women only
12:54<Zuu>frosch123: Esp plans of any of the devs.
12:55<energetic>I fail horribly at c++, but i *think* i know software devving. so all other prereqs shouldnt be too hard
12:56<energetic>thanks for the tips all! Appreciated.
12:56<TrueBrain>good luck :)
12:57<energetic>oh, what is a hg queue
12:57<TrueBrain>hg (mercurial) is an other VCS
12:57<TrueBrain>which allows 'queuing' patches
12:57<TrueBrain>so make one depending on an other
12:58<energetic>right
12:58<planetmaker>very useful indeed.
12:58<TrueBrain>svn for example doesn't allow this :)
12:58<TrueBrain>and else you get N working copies :)
12:58<TrueBrain>haha
12:58<energetic>Zuu: i am talking about this one: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41083
12:59<energetic>blugh
12:59<planetmaker>also very useful for patch packs :)
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12:59<TrueBrain>energetic: be very careful with such patches; you are touching game rebalancing, which is a very tricky road to walk :)
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13:00<energetic>That's one reason why I think there should be a backwoards compatibility option.
13:00<Zuu>Easiest patches to get commited are those who clean up code or generalize, but isn't visible for players at all.
13:00<TrueBrain>that always goes a long way :)
13:01<@Rubidium>but they are the most important of all as they keep OpenTTD maintainable
13:01<energetic>Though i wonder how many players/ppl will be affected of it - only like, the top ten ppl of kurts competition server know all the tricks to compete - in other words, they know the current mechanics of competition.
13:02<energetic>And I really doubt much other players/servers know these rules - for instance, the rondje om the kerk or the yearly AI competition will be affected
13:02<Zuu>I think the longest patch I got committed that actually change the external behavior was a one-liner if I have not forgotten any.
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13:03<planetmaker>he... I think I only got interface patches..
13:03<energetic>So what other caveats/ tips do you have in relation to game rebalacing? any more do's and/or don'ts?
13:04<TrueBrain>make it fair
13:04<planetmaker>and simple / easy to understand
13:04<energetic>:) that's the whole point of the patch I am trying to get into trunk :)
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13:10<TrueBrain>Rubidium: how long do you keep unreproducable bugs open?
13:12<frosch123>TrueBrain: out of memory
13:12<TrueBrain>frosch123: no
13:12<frosch123>yeah, works again
13:13<TrueBrain>we force-restart all services every 6 hours
13:14<+glx>to prevent OOM ;)
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13:24<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: depends on the information we have and whether the person reporting the bug reacts
13:24<@Rubidium>and whether the person with the bug can reproduce it him/herself
13:24<TrueBrain>I was refering to one from november .. :)
13:25<@Rubidium>there're more than on from november
13:26<TrueBrain>1 unreproducable with no replies :)
13:28<TrueBrain>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2411
13:28<TrueBrain>FYI
13:28<@Rubidium>that has a reply
13:29-!-mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ
13:29-!-mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
13:29-!-mode/#openttd [+v petern] by ChanServ
13:29<TrueBrain>oeh, I want +v too!!!
13:30<@Rubidium>ask Bjarni
13:30<TrueBrain>for +v?
13:30<TrueBrain>@voice
13:30-!-mode/#openttd [+v TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
13:30<@Rubidium>for autovoice
13:30<+TrueBrain>I don't need him :)
13:30<+TrueBrain>:p
13:30<+TrueBrain>don't want that :)
13:30<@Rubidium>got no idea what to do about/with FS#2411
13:31<@Rubidium>I've got no way to reproduce it and it's the only "sighting"
13:31<+TrueBrain>so close it :) Haha :)
13:31<+TrueBrain>my reason for asking was that :)
13:33<+TrueBrain>whoho, 26.6 kiB/s from openttdcoop.org ...
13:33<+TrueBrain>6.7 kiB/s ...
13:33<planetmaker>:P
13:33<+TrueBrain>someone should keep their hands of the ratelimiter ..
13:33<+TrueBrain>it is not only annoying, only costs much more in the end
13:33<planetmaker>which one, TrueBrain ?
13:34<+TrueBrain>which one what planetmaker?
13:34<energetic>OwenS: are they building the transrapid already, or is it still in planning phase?
13:34<planetmaker>the server which is so slow.
13:35<planetmaker>there's more than one openttdcoop server :)
13:35<+TrueBrain>openttdcoop.org
13:35<+TrueBrain>www
13:35<+TrueBrain>grf pack
13:35<planetmaker>ah. hm...
13:35<+TrueBrain>bursts for a few seconds
13:35<+TrueBrain>then rate limiter kicks in
13:35<+TrueBrain>very stupid
13:35<+TrueBrain>even more as I just make it a bundles requests, and I get it at full speed
13:35<+TrueBrain>go figure ..
13:35<planetmaker>found that last week, too.
13:36<+TrueBrain>piss off, stupid 'traffic' shapers .. useless in all possible ways
13:36<+TrueBrain>don't put a 100 mbit/sec server on the web if you are limiting it anyway ...
13:36<planetmaker>back then I thought it was on my end. But if that's general, it's stupid, indeed.
13:36<+TrueBrain>you could as well attach it to a ADSL connection
13:36<+TrueBrain>as stable and useful as this
13:37<+TrueBrain>(sorry, I REALLY hate traffic shapers of this kind ... useless useless and useless ... ibm.com uses it too ... blegh!)
13:37<planetmaker>I figured, you really hate them :P
13:37<Aali>frosch123: hate to say this, but r14994 has another problem :P
13:38<+TrueBrain>bleh, I thought openttdcoop was open for spectate, without password? :(
13:39<planetmaker>difficult. But anyone can obtain the password for free.
13:39<+TrueBrain>planetmaker: it requires me to join a channel ....
13:39<planetmaker>a server pw applies to spectators, too...
13:40<+TrueBrain>and it just differs between password on server or on company :p
13:40<frosch123>haha, what's this time?
13:40<planetmaker>grisly
13:40<+TrueBrain>planetmaker: and my point exactly was, that I assumed it was on the company, but it is on the server :)
13:41<planetmaker>right. There's not a good patch to make joining with automatically setting company pw afaik.
13:41<planetmaker>like command line arguments for that
13:41<+TrueBrain>I see :)
13:42<+TrueBrain>fair enough
13:42<Aali>frosch123: trains get lost when exiting a depot
13:42<+TrueBrain>we always have webchats :p
13:42<Aali>sometimes
13:42<planetmaker>I posted you the PW anyway :) But now it will be invalid, I guess...
13:42<+TrueBrain>it already was a few seconds after you posted it :)
13:42<+TrueBrain>but tnx anyway ;)
13:43<planetmaker>np :)
13:43<Aali>some trains do it the first time they exit a depot, but they all seem to get lost if i send them to depot while they're loading
13:43<frosch123>Aali: provide a savegame
13:44<Aali>will do
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r14996 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-11 18:44:49
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 22 fixed by burgerd (22)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 18 fixed by khaloofah (18)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 16 fixed by arnaullv (16)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 12 fixed by Hadez (12)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 13 fixed by Excel20 (13)
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13:50<Tijuas>Tired of niigggers and their general monkeyshines? Then join the multiracial alliance against the golliwogs, darkies, jigaboos, etc! http://www.chimpout.com Chimpout welcomes Asians, Whites, Indians, Native Americans, Jews, non-negroid Hispanics, and anybody else that isn't negroid. Chimpout.com The Alliance of Humans vs Niiiggggers
13:51<+TrueBrain>@kban Tijuas bye
13:51-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~Tijuas@201.170.25.243] by DorpsGek
13:51-!-Tijuas was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [bye]
13:52<energetic>wtf
13:52<+TrueBrain>spam is not only via email :)
13:52*Sacro laughs heartily
13:53<energetic>never seen this kinda spam
13:53<+TrueBrain>once or twice a month
13:53<energetic>racist spam
13:55-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:03<OwenS>The Whois info is apparently Whoisguard protected... Not surprising :p
14:04<+TrueBrain>hehe
14:04<+TrueBrain>don't pay any attention to such people
14:04<+TrueBrain>bad for you :)
14:07<Aali>frosch123: http://epj.no-ip.org/upl/bug.sav
14:07<Aali>no grfs needed
14:07-!-vraa_ [~vraa@h51.164.30.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd
14:09<Aali>oh and even though I used PBS there, it will still happen with block signals
14:09<energetic>hey owen
14:11-!-Wolle [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0D219.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:11<OwenS>Just noticed I sit in here also? :P
14:12<OwenS>Oh wait... brainfart :p
14:12<+TrueBrain>he isn't the quickest of the group ;)
14:13<energetic>OwenS: are they building the transrapid already, or is it still in planning phase?
14:14-!-vraa [~vraa@h51.164.30.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:14<frosch123>Aali: train2 does not even have orders :/
14:14<Aali>indeed
14:14<frosch123>and train1 is of course lost
14:14<OwenS>energetic: It's a proposal thats trying to convince the gov it's a better idea than a bog standard high speed rail line
14:14<OwenS>Anyway,
14:14<frosch123>that is a known fs task
14:14<OwenS>afk for a bit
14:15<Aali>frosch123: oh, right, it doesn't look past the eol reversing?
14:15<frosch123>yes, but how do you get a train without orders "lost"
14:16<Aali>yeah, that one is a bit odd :P
14:16<frosch123>well, I did not reproduce that part yet
14:16<Aali>and you only have to start it (green flag in the depot) it doesn't even have to leave the depot at all
14:17<frosch123>I only get a profit warning
14:18<Aali>hmm, ya, I can't reproduce it either :/
14:18<Aali>try building a new train
14:19<frosch123>ah yes :)
14:25<frosch123>but isn't that a feature?
14:28<Aali>may be, lets see if it was like that before 14994
14:28<frosch123>it is like that in 14952 :)
14:29<Aali>yep
14:29<frosch123>and the train throws that error reguarly, not only on start
14:31<Aali>alright, you're off the hook then, FS#2516 has been resolved without any bad side-effects :P
14:32<frosch123>haha, there might still show up issues in some months
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14:33<snappy>Does it make sense to bulldoze farmland and build on top, or does it cost the same as just building on top?
14:33<frosch123>try it, but directly building might be cheaper
14:34<frosch123>you can also try to buy the land
14:36<Aali>you always end up paying the "clear farmland" price though, right?
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14:50<Sacro>http://lifehacker.com/5128404/microsoft-extends-windows-7-beta-availability-until-january-24th#c9963041
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15:02<+glx>nobody wants it?
15:02-!-UFO64 [~jmurray@cpe-72-224-202-159.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:04<Aali>they want as many as possible to move away from Vista :)
15:04-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aeix89.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
15:07<Zuu>I read after 1:st july (or june?) resellers may offer a free upgrade to windows 7 for customers that buy a PC with Vista on it.
15:07<Terkhen>it can't get worse than Vista, right? :/
15:07<Sacro>heh
15:07<Sacro>I offer a free upgrade to Ubuntu for Vista users
15:07<Zuu>Terkhen: As vista had some areas improved over XP it surely can get worse.
15:10<OwenS>Terkhen, It could be ME....
15:10<Terkhen>yeah... i suffered ME and now i'm suffering Vista :(
15:11-!-sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
15:12<+glx>ME is just a mix of worse part of 9x and worse part of NT
15:13-!-sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:19<Aali>nice
15:19<Aali>company manager faces aren't synced properly in MP
15:21<+glx>it's just a number
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15:52<goodger>glx: that's not true. ME is 9x with bugs, there's no trace of NT
15:52<goodger>NT didn't become a desktop release until XP was released
15:54<el_en>2000 was quite widely used on desktop.
15:55<el_en>Widelyerly than NT 4 anyway.
15:55-!-petern changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | Word of the day: Widelyerly
15:55<el_en>Just for the record, I know it's not a real word.
15:56<@petern>of course
15:56<@petern>those are the best ones :D
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>nobody would question the existence of a word in german...
16:22<goodger>heh
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16:51<Zuu>Does anyone remember this English student that built the website with lot of small squares that he sold for adverts? I have forgoten what the website was called. :/
16:51<goodger>million dollar webpage
16:52<goodger>one million pixels, one dollar per pixel to hire it for a fortnight or something
16:52<goodger>made him super-rich
16:52<goodger>bastard
16:55<Prof_Frink>goodger: It was longer than a fortnight, several years iirc
16:55<goodger>the period to hire the pixel?
16:55<goodger>hm
16:55<goodger>I'd have made it monthly... no point in earning $1m when you can earn $1m a month
16:56<Prof_Frink>Except you'd earn $1m.
16:56<Prof_Frink>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Dollar_Homepage
16:57<goodger>ah, so it didn't expire at all
16:57<goodger>*tut*
16:58<goodger>I don't know how I'd spend a million dollars
16:59<goodger>but if I had the choice of earning a million dollars, or a million dollars per set period for the foreseeable future, I'd choose the latter
16:59<Prof_Frink>Unless the set period was "Every 1000 years"
17:01<goodger>yeah, but I'd have the set period as a year, or six months, or perhaps even a week if I could get away with charging a minimum of $100 for a week's advertising with a 10x10 pixel image
17:02-!-energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has left #openttd []
17:02<Zuu>well, you could try to start an airliner, and you will soon find yourself with less money left than you started with. :)
17:03-!-mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl]
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17:04<Zuu>there is a quite often spoken joke in the air industry that to become a millionaire you have to put in 10 million into an airliner company.
17:06<mrfrenzy>that is not quite how it works in openttd with airliners ;)
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17:23<@petern>erm
17:23<@petern>how do you add new files using msvc 2005?
17:23<+glx>openttd related?
17:24<+glx>or more general ?
17:25<frosch123>former is for free, latter will cost
17:25<+glx>:)
17:27<@petern>openttd, yes
17:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14997 /trunk/src/ (gfx_type.h spritecache.cpp): -Fix [FS#2524](r14223): when handling invalid sprites, entry in spritecache data could lose its parent
17:30<+glx>you add the files in source.list then run projects\generate.vbs
17:31<@petern>thought so
17:31<@petern>tedious :p
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17:32<+glx>it's possible to add them in VS but it tends to do extra changes ;)
17:32-!-Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d861361.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
17:32<@petern>it puts them in projects/ as well, which is stupid
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17:33<Roujin>hi everyone
17:34<Roujin>who feels responsible for the grfcrawler? ;)
17:34-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd
17:34<+glx>no me
17:34<Roujin>I added my hover bus newgrf to the grfcrawler, but it displays errors on uploading images :(
17:35<Roujin>(also, I created a duplicate entry because I thought it didn't work at all when I saw the errors and pressed "send" again :( )
17:36<@Rubidium>Roujin: eis_os (#tycoon)
17:39<Roujin>thanks :)
17:42<Roujin>could it be that he doesn't show up often lately? last forum post from in his a month ago, at least..
17:42<Roujin>*from him is
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17:48<+TrueBrain>LA LA LA!
17:49<+TrueBrain>I can sing very pretty!!!!!!!!111oneone
17:50<+glx>someone seems drunk
17:50<+TrueBrain>nah!
17:50<+TrueBrain>then I wouldn't be typing the right letters :)
17:50<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: please sing for us, but do it vocally without speech-to-text
17:51<+TrueBrain>but you both can be correct glx :)
17:51<+TrueBrain>you want me to record it and force it through your soundcard?
17:51<+TrueBrain>:)
17:52<energetic>yesyesyes!!!!!111twotwotwo
17:52<+TrueBrain>energetic: two? You are silly ...
17:52<energetic>thats called sarcasm
17:53<+TrueBrain>I hate sarcasm :(
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18:01<xahodo>Hello
18:01<+TrueBrain>hi xahodo
18:02<xahodo>I've hit a problem with pbs
18:03<xahodo>Something with the reservations seems to be wrong.
18:03<Wolf01>'night
18:03-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host148-232-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
18:04<xahodo>With several stations when vehicles are stopped in front of a pbs signal (both normal and single-direction).
18:04<+TrueBrain>try reversing the train :p Fixed many problems for me :(
18:05<xahodo>The construction in question has a pbs signal as an entry and a normal signal as an exit.
18:05-!-FauxFaux_ [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
18:05<xahodo>However, if you demolish the tiles with the pbs signals on them and rebuild the signals, it /seems/ to solve the problem.
18:05<+TrueBrain>Night all
18:06<frosch123>xahodo: try with a screenshot
18:07-!-FauxFaux [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:07<xahodo>I'm looking for the problem now.
18:09<xahodo>I've got both a screenshot and a save!
18:09<xahodo>yippy!
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18:18<Zuu>xahodo: You should not have an PBS signal infront of your station platforms
18:19<Zuu>Only one signal before the junction where trains select platform
18:19<Zuu>(given that you only have one entry-track)
18:19<+glx>PBS signal must be safe waiting position
18:19<+glx>but show us the screenshot
18:20<Zuu>With your construction you tell the trains that they can wait in the junction infront of the station.
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18:20<Zuu>But indeed a screenshot may clear up some missunderstandings of either us or you.
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>rule of thumb: whenever you previously put an exit signal, you put no signal
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18:27<xahodo>Well, the screenshot in the bugreport should explain a lot.
18:27<xahodo>I'm also attaching a save.
18:30<xahodo>this is the bugreport: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2528
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18:33<frosch123>yarrs.grf <- what's that
18:34<xahodo>uh-oh... quite a bunch of newgrf's in there :(
18:34<xahodo>sorry.
18:34<frosch123>is it in ottdcoop 7.3, that one I have not yet
18:34<xahodo>rail and road replacement set
18:34<xahodo>There's a forum thread somewhere...
18:35<frosch123>only graphics, then it is not important :)
18:36<xahodo>It might be in ottdcoop 7.3... but of several grf's I use different versions :S
18:37<frosch123>i need your version of the 2cc set
18:38-!-OwenS [~OwenS@host86-164-125-149.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:38<Eddi|zuHause><CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14993 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14957, r14975): Do not reverse the train with OT_LEAVESTATION as that breaks PBS prediction. <- i still have no idea what this means
18:38<xahodo>I'll upload it.
18:39<xahodo>do you need the metro tracks too?
18:39<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: It means "Do not do bad thing."
18:39<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: terminal stations were broken
18:39<frosch123>yarrs.grf is also missing
18:40<xahodo>ok
18:40<frosch123>as well as ECSTown, ECSBasic and ECSMach
18:40<frosch123>though I have different versions of all of them :p
18:40<+glx>everybody uses a different ECS version ;)
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>that's the problem of releasing beta versions
18:41<frosch123>however, the vehicle sets are the important ones, as those prevent loading
18:41<+glx>and using same name for them
18:41<frosch123>and using same grfid
18:42<+glx>luckily md5sum is usually different ;)
18:43<frosch123>well, if the grfid would be different the grf would be disabled, instead of loading an old one, which is that different, that ottd crashes :/
18:43<+glx>indeed
18:44<+glx>I wonder how ttdpatch handles that
18:44<frosch123>someone wrote a 11 lines long text about that :)
18:45<xahodo>more missing?
18:45<frosch123>no
18:47<xahodo>Can I upload it anywhere?
18:48<frosch123>where you uploaded the savegame?
18:48-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g226141037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar]
18:48<xahodo>oh......
18:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14998 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Codechange: warn once about misuse of each sprite, not once about misuse of any sprite
18:51<xahodo>Added the missing grfs to the bug.
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18:54<xahodo>Gotta leave, bye
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18:55<frosch123>so, Aali, why did you not found that one :p
18:57<Aali>the what?
18:57<Aali>which one?
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19:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14999 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Change [FS#2523]: move service at helipad to the servicing options
19:08<@petern>bah
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20:02<Zuu>nooooo, nightly forum backup, just as I am about to round off my day by eating an apple and read the dev section of tt-forums :(
20:05<Aali>yeah, that thing always comes at the worst possible time
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20:09<Zuu>Though it is nice that backup is taken, as tt-forums is half my life :D
20:09<snappy>When will a steel mill produce steel? I'm transporting iron ore to it.
20:12<Zuu>snappy: Do you use PBI/ECS?
20:12<Tefad>coal?
20:12<Zuu>In those you need coal and iron ore to produce steel.
20:13<snappy>i have no idea what a PBI or ECS means? but the steel mill says it "requires iron ore"
20:13<snappy>that's all.
20:13<Zuu>snappy: Have you loaded any GRF files?
20:13<snappy>yep, from the original ttdlx
20:14<@petern>probably the usual suspect: transfer orders
20:14<Zuu>I even had a friend asking me about it on MSN...
20:15<Aali>snappy: not all tiles need coal, but the steel mill as a whole does
20:15<Aali>build your station closer
20:16<Zuu>If you click on your station, does it says that it accept iron ore?
20:17<snappy>it says it only accepts iron ore
20:17<snappy>so i need to cover the whole steel mill?
20:17<snappy>probably explains why i couldn't do this last time i played ttdlx (in like '97)
20:17<Zuu>snappy: As you have not loaded any NewGRFs (which you probably don't know what it is) your steel mill only need iron ore, no coal.
20:18<Zuu>snappy: You need to cover the right tile(s) of the industries.
20:20<Zuu>snappy: But if your station sasy it accepts iron ore then that part should be okay.
20:20<Zuu>What order have you given your train at the station next to the steel mill?
20:21<snappy>ive been carrying iron ore by trucks
20:21<Zuu>ok, by trucks, but what order did you gave them?
20:21<Zuu>did you used the transfer order?
20:21<snappy>basically full load for iron ore, then goto steel mill
20:21<snappy>and drop it off
20:21<snappy>transfer order?
20:22<Zuu>You shouldn't be using the transfer order, so that is okay.
20:24<Zuu>snappy: do you use English OpenTTD or a translation?
20:24<snappy>i use english
20:25<Zuu>Ok, then we can be sure you don't use transfers. (a friend used the Swedish translation and there transfer has been translated, despite that there is no Swedish word for transfer)
20:25<Zuu>snappy: Maybe you can post a savegame?
20:26<snappy>yah sure. But I just don't understand the semantics or the gameplay in this respect. Take for example the factories. Once you feed them livestock, grain, and steel do they start producing goods?
20:26<Zuu>Oh, and you used truck depots (not bus stops)?
20:26<snappy>yep, truck depots
20:27<Zuu>Yep in plain TTD (and plain OpenTTD) you only need one of the livestock, grain or steel.
20:27<Zuu>Then goods will start being produced.
20:28<snappy>ah interesting.
20:28<Zuu>Amount of produced goods is proportional to the amount of supplied livestock, grain or steel.
20:29<SmatZ>in TTO, you didn't need to supply anything ;)
20:30<Zuu>snappy: I need to get myself some sleep, but post it to tt-forums OpenTTD problems and I'll take a look on it tomorrow if nobody has done that yet by then.
20:31<Zuu>(the savegame)
20:31<snappy>yep sure
20:31<snappy>thanks.
20:31<snappy>will do.
20:32<Zuu>you're "snappy" also on the forums, right?
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21:26<Eddi|zuHause>AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute '__cmp__' <- how the hell did i break that one?
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 12 00:00:02 2009