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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-01-15

---Logopened Thu Jan 15 00:00:08 2009
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00:42<Eddi|zuHause>no warez bots here :p
00:49<goodger>indeed...
01:02<keiya>Uh.
01:03<keiya>Someone needs to add an extra check to the town-road code/
01:04<keiya>To, you know, avoid swastika-towns
01:04<keiya>((Unless you want OpenTTD to be illegal in Germany...)
01:06<goodger>:S
01:07<goodger>I don't see that the town-road code can easily detect the accidental generation of swastikas
01:10<Sacro>there's far funnier things for the germans to find ;)(
01:11<keiya>Sacro: Are there other things illegal to distribute in germany? >_>
01:11<keiya>(Personally, I just laughed and demolished half the town.)
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02:18<@petern>TrueBrain, ping :o
02:21<@petern>or
02:21<@petern>Rubidium, ping :o
02:22*Forked pongs anyway
02:23<Rubidium>pang
02:25<Rubidium>petern?
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02:46<planetmaker>morning
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02:47<goodger>morning planetmaker, vraa_, Rubidium, petern
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02:48<vraa_>sup goodger :D
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02:50<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 1e6/12
02:50-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
02:50<Eddi|zuHause>err...
02:50<goodger>^_^
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02:51<Eddi|zuHause>De_Ghosty killed him, with his warez stuff
02:57<Tim-itry>Uhm... Openttd.org + wiki down?
02:57<Rubidium>works fine here
03:01<Rubidium>hmm... looking at servers.openttd.org it looks like about half is missing
03:01<Rubidium>so there must be some IX or peering that's broken
03:03-!-_Felicitus [Felicitus@p3EE3FC76.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
03:03<_Felicitus>howdy
03:03<@petern>*nod*
03:03<@petern>works from my server but not from my desktop
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03:04<@petern>although
03:04<@petern>my tracert gets to leaseweb
03:05<@petern>a different part of leaseweb, though
03:07<_Felicitus>i have a strange thing in openttd: since today, my two favourite servers (which i added to the config yesterday) dont appear in the "find servers" list anymore, and they are completely gone from the config - does openttd store such things anywhere else?
03:10<planetmaker>hm... what happened to openttd.org? I cannot access it...
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03:10<planetmaker>doh... first read, then write ;)
03:10<Rubidium>planetmaker: nothing happened with it...
03:10<_Felicitus>:)
03:10<goodger>^_^
03:12<planetmaker>hm... is there a serious re-wamp of the newgrf selection UI planned, if the fruits in the basket ripe at some time?
03:13<planetmaker>e.g., I wonder how much it is worth to invest either in the existing UI replacement or even re-write it such that it has more similarities to the now existing advanced settings dialogue
03:13<planetmaker>which would improve its readability a lot imo
03:13<planetmaker>should there be means to introduce categories for newgrfs
03:14<planetmaker>(like taking the directory names or information similar to that
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03:16<Rubidium>directory names is (in my opinion) not a way to sort newgrfs and the like
03:17<planetmaker>is an information file which stores category information a way to go? User editable? Or maybe a dedicated file like ottdDirInfo which provides information about dir content?
03:17<Rubidium>petern: what's the ip of your home?
03:18<Rubidium>or rather your desktop (at least one that fails to connect to openttd.org)
03:19<Rubidium>planetmaker: that's going to be a mess when you're moving around newgrfs
03:20<planetmaker>IP 134.169.28.42 fails to connect, too
03:20<planetmaker>Rubidium: well, yes. But then the directory structure usually doesn't need much moving around and it's easily maintainable
03:21<Rubidium>planetmaker: can you do a traceroute to openttd.org and paste it at paste.openttd.org?
03:21<Eddi|zuHause>why not let the user choose how to sort newgrfs?
03:21<Eddi|zuHause>it's not like it would be the only sortable list
03:21<Rubidium>planetmaker: so you never add/remove newgrfs by copying them into a directory?
03:21<Rubidium>or removing them from said directory
03:22<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: the problem is that there's nothing (reliable) to sort them on
03:22<Eddi|zuHause>you mean the directory structure can change midgame?
03:22<Eddi|zuHause>i don't get your point
03:23<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: if you put all newgrfs in a single directory, what should it sort on?
03:23<Eddi|zuHause>filename?
03:23<planetmaker>http://paste.openttd.org/178865 <- @ Rubidium
03:23<Rubidium>what when the newgrfs are scattered over several search paths?
03:23<Eddi|zuHause>same order as the search paths
03:24<planetmaker>Rubidium: filename. But sorting via dir structure is e.g already done by the coop grf pack and any user can easily re-sort, if s/he doesn't like that
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03:25<Eddi|zuHause>fact is, some kind of newgrf management must be added
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03:26<planetmaker>and scattered... you mean local grf dir and global? well. Then it's the user's fault, is it?
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03:26<@petern>Rubidium: 217.151.109.184
03:26<Eddi|zuHause>while at it: i occasionally need grfs to be marked as "obsolete", i.e. not show those grfs in the list, but have them available for backwards compatibility
03:27<planetmaker>:) he, yeah, I would like that, too, Eddi|zuHause :)
03:27<Rubidium>imo it's better to add tags to newgrfs themselves
03:28<planetmaker>put them in a tar, jointly with an information / tag file?
03:28<Rubidium>like "german", "rail", "road", "uk"
03:28<Eddi|zuHause>so, how do you want to add these tags? .ini file?
03:28<Rubidium>well... should be part of the newgrf
03:28<Tim-itry>10.60.14.8 does not work either, if that helps you...
03:28<Eddi|zuHause>do you also want people to be able to easily add translation strings?
03:29<planetmaker>like info.dat which contains lines like: Category: trains; Country: uk; Author: PB; ... ?
03:29<Eddi|zuHause>.dat seems like an awful way to specify that...
03:29<planetmaker>and another would then be Category: infrastructure...
03:29<Eddi|zuHause>sounds very binary
03:30<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: why? Just make it a txt file with extention .dat :)
03:30<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, sure :p
03:30<Eddi|zuHause>microsoft would totally do that ;)
03:30<planetmaker>pfft ;)
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03:44<@petern>Tim-itry... it wouldn't, being a private ip address...
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04:07<Rubidium>C=XX,ST=There is no such thing outside US,L=Everywhere,O=OCOSA,OU=Office for Complication of Otherwise Simple Affairs,CN=mailfilter1.leaseweb.com <- someone must've been in a funny mood or so
04:08<goodger>^_^
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04:51<Rubidium>petern, planetmaker: can you reach the website again?
04:53<planetmaker>doesn't look like... (trying out wiki... and hg...)
04:53<@petern>nope
04:54<@petern>oddly enough i'm not at home now
04:55<Forked>"belive it or not, george isn't at home.. please leave a messaaageee at the beep.. "
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05:11<Rubidium>petern, planetmaker: and now?
05:12<planetmaker>yes. works :)
05:12<@petern>still at work ;)
05:13<@petern>my traceroute to work looks better though
05:13<@petern>and to home
05:14<@petern>so yeah, i guess it's working :D
05:17<_Felicitus>is it possible to set the servicing interval for all trains at once, or do i have to set it manually for each train i already built?
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05:54<@petern>no, you can't :/
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you have
05:54<_Felicitus>damn :)
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>unless you decompress the savegame and flip the appropriate bits
05:55<TrueBrain>just set it before building
05:55<TrueBrain>much easier ;)
05:55<Eddi|zuHause>or you create an AI
05:55<Eddi|zuHause>which goes through all trains, and sets the service interval
05:56<Eddi|zuHause>i really don'k know why you are against running AI scripts directly from the console...
05:56<Eddi|zuHause>s/k/t/
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05:56<_Felicitus>Eddi|zuHause: it gives people an unfair advantage in multiplayer
05:56<@petern>switching an AI on mid-game?
05:56<@petern>quite some cheat ;)
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>it would not give them any more unfair advantage than an AI would have
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>i would totally have scripts running that check for stuck trains and stuff
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>or "advanced" autoreplace
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06:00<Eddi|zuHause>or that scenario from yesterday (?) with sending unnecessarily waiting vehicles to depot
06:05<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: with Squirrel suuport in console, it wouldn't be a problem :)
06:05<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: exactly.
06:07<TrueBrain>it still would be very much cheating :)
06:08<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i don't see how you would prevent client side patches anyway
06:08<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: doesnt mean we have to make it VERY easy
06:08<TrueBrain>there is a difference :)
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06:09<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: suggestion, allow servers to be marked as "no-scripts allowed"
06:10<Rubidium>whahaha
06:10<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: which would be VERY easy to patch client-side ;)
06:10<Rubidium>that's like marking server "no map flattening allowed"
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>well, some servers implement checks for that already
06:11<@SmatZ>for copy&paste patch?
06:12<@SmatZ>or for map flattening...
06:12<@SmatZ>everything is possible...
06:12<mrfrenzy>"Hey! this user is clicking too fast"
06:12<@SmatZ>but also, it is possible to fool any check of this kind
06:12<@SmatZ>hehe
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but if the intention is to block script-kiddies, every increasing barrier will work only for some time
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>that includes "we won't make patching easy"
06:13<mrfrenzy>I don't seee c&p as cheating, just an improved UI. the challenge in the game is not about building stuff fast, rather making smart designs
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>as soon as there is a patch, patching WILL be easy
06:14<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: not making the option at all, should give a reasonable amount of barriers to pass ;)
06:14<@SmatZ>hehe
06:14<@SmatZ>if c&p isn't allowed, you may code a script that builds it for you :-P
06:14<@SmatZ>even the c&p patch may generate that script ;)
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>if you build it, he will come
06:14<@SmatZ>==> making c&p obsolete as it is now...
06:15*SmatZ is goting to put some food to his stomach :-P
06:19<TrueBrain>but I guess it was just a matter of time before someone would start to talk about scripts to 'help' users .. just I didn't expect it to be Eddi|zuHause ;) :p
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>"start"? i've been talking about that for ages...
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06:39<De_Ghosty>we need c&p!!!!!!
06:40<@petern>lies
06:43<planetmaker>:) c&p is for lazy :P
06:45<TrueBrain>c&p spoils the game
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07:19<@petern>someone commit something
07:20<FauxFaux>I'd love to.
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07:32*planetmaker fears FauxFaux commits...
07:33<@SmatZ>-Revert (r15027): because I can :-P
07:35<frosch123>hehe, would have expected "revenge"
07:36<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15087 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Less hardcoding of y positions in town authority window.
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07:37<dihedral>petern, you could create the 'favorits' tab for the lobby window :-)
07:37<@petern>no i couldn't
07:37<dihedral>and an option for selected servers: add to favorits
07:37<dihedral>and on the fav tab an option 'remove'
07:38<@petern>but
07:38<@petern>- 0x6B!
07:38<@petern>y offset... in hex!
07:38<dihedral>nice....! :-S
07:38<@SmatZ>:-)
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07:41<yorick>how many ttd crates of goods would fit in 153 cu ft?
07:43<planetmaker>6
07:44<@petern>9000
07:44<@SmatZ>>
07:44<@petern>over!
07:44<@petern>yorick, why are you using stupid units?
07:44<planetmaker>!pi * 42 ;)
07:44<@SmatZ>:o)
07:45<Forked>how many bits does one crate of goods use and what fontsize are we printing with?
07:45<@petern>153 cu ft = 4332 litres
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07:45<yorick>because the it's listed that way :p
07:46<@petern>the it's!
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07:47<Eddi|zuHause>4m³, sounds like a small storage space
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07:48<@petern>it does
07:49*petern grumbles at windows not making alt-gr behave the same manner as X11 does
07:49<Forked>Windows eXPerience :)
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>i never had that kind of problem...
07:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15088 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2536]: Resize company list in town authority window if required.
07:51<@petern>Eddi|zuHause? it's just the way things are, not any particular bug...
07:51<@petern>alt-gr + 4 works the same, mind you :)
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07:52<Eddi|zuHause>¼?
07:52<@petern>
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>that's on altgr+e here
07:52<@SmatZ>AltGr doesn't have any special function for me (KDE)
07:52<@petern>yeah. not on uk keyboards
07:53<@petern>alt-gr + 4 did used to generate a 1/4 until the prevalence of keyboards with a euro symbol there
07:53<@petern>SmatZ: for X11 it depends on the keyboard layout
07:53<planetmaker>yeah... some more commits. Yesterday the frequency for this year was like every hour one commit.
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07:53<@petern>using a US layout does not make alt-gr do anything special, for example
07:53<@SmatZ>ah...
07:53<@petern>clearly americans never need any special characters...
07:54<@petern>alt-gr + ; then a gives me a á
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>i once learned that the original idea of altgr was as a shortcut for ctrl+alt
07:54<@SmatZ>for some reason switching keyboard layout affects only newly started apps for me (since ~December)... I should fix that :-/
07:54<@petern>alt-gr + the symbol keys in that group all give different (but repeatable, heh) accent characters
07:55<@SmatZ>yeah, alt-gr with czech layout works as expected ;)
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>german layout uses dead keys for accents
07:55<@petern>i love this 'compose' feature :)
07:55<@petern>so i miss it somewhat in windows
07:55<@SmatZ>ŧ←ŧ← it types characters I have never seen :-P
07:55<@petern>:)
07:56<@petern>@bugs
07:56<@DorpsGek>petern: Error: The command "bugs" is available in the OpenTTD and WT2 plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "bugs".
07:56<@petern>@openttd bugs
07:56<@DorpsGek>petern: Temporary Offline
07:56<@petern>hm
07:56<Eddi|zuHause>lack of xmlrpc, i presume
07:56<Rubidium>FS removed XMLRPC
07:56<TrueBrain>not so temporary after all :)
07:56<@SmatZ>there is Rubidium and TrueBrain still watching us :)
07:57<yorick>.away away
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>.fail
07:57<TrueBrain>SmatZ: kind of our job, not? :)
07:57<@SmatZ>:-)
07:58<@petern>hmm
07:59<dihedral>petern, @fs 123
07:59<@petern>i wonder how to send an encrypted email from the command line... in windows...
07:59<dihedral>oh
07:59<yorick>telnet ;)
07:59<@petern>dihedral, what?
07:59<yorick>Eddi: .care
07:59<dihedral>@fs 2536
07:59<@DorpsGek>dihedral: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2536
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07:59<dihedral>:-)
07:59<@petern>that's not what @openttd bugs did
07:59<dihedral>i know
07:59<@petern>so then shut up
07:59<@petern>:)
07:59<@petern>kindly
08:00<@petern>would you kindly...
08:00<dihedral>:-P
08:00<@SmatZ>8-)
08:00<@petern>(if you've played bioshock...)
08:00<dihedral>i have
08:00<dihedral>the first one only though
08:00*SmatZ hasn't :-/
08:00<@petern>yeah that one
08:00<dihedral>that was really awesome
08:00<@petern>hang on
08:01<@petern>there is only a first one, isn't there?
08:01<@petern>or was 2 released...
08:01<dihedral>oh....
08:01<dihedral>then i might be thinking of something else
08:01<@petern>there's a 2 in the works
08:01<@petern>but not released
08:01<dihedral>i was thinking of bioforge
08:01<dihedral>and system shock
08:01<dihedral>:-P
08:02<@petern>i see
08:03<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15089 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Fix: make install not installing the AI directory and thus the AI libraries were missing in the debian builds.
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08:06<@petern>lol @ BT
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08:47<Zuu>Hmm, according to the c&p discussion earlier, it seams like if you change player using the cheat dialog to an AI player, the AI is still running while you are playing also. So there you have the scripting for single player.
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08:49<TrueBrain>Zuu: but .. a clear cheat ;)
08:50<Zuu>Yes it is a cheat. And if it is possible but only as a cheat in SP I would say it is okay.
08:50<Zuu>It don't ruin my game, only theirs.
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08:51<TrueBrain>exactly :)
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09:24<@Belugas>hello
09:25<TrueBrain>hi Belugas :)
09:25<@petern>'elo
09:25<@petern>how's my grfid code? ;)
09:26<TrueBrain>working very well :)
09:26<@Belugas>which? where?
09:26<@Belugas>ho... that...
09:26<@Belugas>menoum menoum menoum menoum menoum menoum menoum
09:27*petern wonders if forum topic 41224 will get any more silly
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 15 09:38:07 2009
---Logopened Thu Jan 15 09:39:53 2009
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09:45<sexten:#openttd>Hello. When people talk about the "station-walk-method" do they mean i.e. building a very long station and then removing the part in the middle? Or am I missing some key-combination or something?
09:47<@Belugas:#openttd>building a little station piece, then adding another one in the direction, removing the first part and doing so up until you have two station apart, but having the same name and therefor been just one, on two locations
09:47<sexten:#openttd>Yeah, that's what I thought. Thank you:)
09:51<tosse:#openttd>is it only if they are the same size they will be joined into one and if you try to remove one section it will remove all of it?
09:53<@Belugas:#openttd>same size does not matter. tool matters
09:53<@Belugas:#openttd>the prper tool for the proper task
09:53<planetmaker:#openttd>sexten: but in recent trunk it's not needed anymore.
09:54<@Belugas:#openttd>dynamite is a wonderful tool, but buldozer is more precise :) try each and see the difference
09:54<tosse:#openttd>ahaaa
09:54<planetmaker:#openttd>you got the distant join functionality and can build directly with space between parts
09:55<sexten:#openttd>I see
09:56<@Belugas:#openttd>so... you have the laziness option, or the workaholic one...
09:57<planetmaker:#openttd>hehe :)
09:57<tosse:#openttd>another thing, if i want PBS, i need a nightly right?
09:57<planetmaker:#openttd>but within (bigger) towns the distant join option is invaluable.
09:58<Yexo:#openttd>tosse: yes
09:58<planetmaker:#openttd>also it allows you to do that with less popularity loss in the town's council
09:58<planetmaker:#openttd>tosse: there's nothing wrong with nightlies - on the contrary :)
09:58<planetmaker:#openttd>more fun for the same price :P
09:58<tosse:#openttd>:)
09:59<tosse:#openttd>if i started a map on 0.6.3 can i load it in a nightly?
09:59<planetmaker:#openttd>yes
09:59<planetmaker:#openttd>but not vice versa
09:59<Yexo:#openttd>you'll be able to continue that map in 0.7 though
09:59<tosse:#openttd>no, of course :)
09:59<@Belugas:#openttd> is not so obvious for everyone ;)
10:00<Gekz:#openttd>people should be deaded
10:00<tosse:#openttd>and, if i create a map in the scenario editor, can new industries appear in those too? or is that something you have to set up in the editor as well?
10:01<Yexo:#openttd>you can do both
10:01<planetmaker:#openttd>depends upon what settings you choose.
10:01<Yexo:#openttd>you can set them up in the scenario editor, but new ones will appear during the game
10:03<@Belugas:#openttd>scenario editor is quite static, apart the trees
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10:43<@petern:#openttd>frosch123 :D
10:43<frosch123:#openttd>:p
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10:47<@petern:#openttd>frosch123, in fact, if i do the first of your figures, it does show the same
10:50<frosch123:#openttd>are you trying to tell me, that coupled engines run at same speed?
10:50<@petern:#openttd>from a power point of view, yes
10:51<@petern:#openttd>the chart does not take any resistive forces into account, which would prevent that
10:53<@petern:#openttd>power just affects acceleration rate. gravity, air, rolling and static friction restrict top speed.
10:55<@petern:#openttd>and the rotational limits of the motor/engines in use, of course
10:55<@petern:#openttd>gearing gets around that but introduce yet more resistance
10:56<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15091 /trunk/ (8 files in 7 dirs):
10:56<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Add [NoAI] [API CHANGE]: introduce GetCategory() as a requirement for every
10:56<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: library.nut, to indicate in which category it belongs. Currently the directory
10:56<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: indicates the category, but this doesn't allow planned future additions
10:56<@petern:#openttd>hmm, did anyone ever reverse engineer the dos music files?
10:56<@petern:#openttd>(not the cat container, the music itself)
10:58<frosch123:#openttd>orudge is always messing with music
10:59<@petern:#openttd>yes, but he's always messing with putting in a replacement mixer which ignores the old stuff :p
11:01<SpComb:#openttd>hmm, music
11:02<@petern:#openttd>http://www.ttdpatch.net/chris_becke_ttdlx.html calls them PAT files, but...
11:04<frosch123:#openttd>pat sounds like pattern
11:04<frosch123:#openttd>however, gm dir is about 1MB, gm.cat is 420KB
11:05<@Belugas:#openttd>...cold... temp should drop to -33 this afternoon
11:08<frosch123:#openttd>Belugas: Enjoy the unrealisticness of "realistic acceleration", maybe that can keep you warm :p
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11:09<@Belugas:#openttd>hehe
11:09<@petern:#openttd>:D
11:09<@Belugas:#openttd>if it runs the cpu faster, no problem :D
11:09<@Belugas:#openttd>faster -> more heat...
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11:09<frosch123:#openttd>ah, you can also install gentoo without binary packages
11:10<@Belugas:#openttd>at work? naaaaa
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11:41<@orudge:#openttd>[15:56:03] <petern> hmm, did anyone ever reverse engineer the dos music files? <-- somebody did, yes, but I can't remember who. Possibly it was that Chris Becke guy.
11:41<@orudge:#openttd>ah, yes, so it would seem
11:44<@petern:#openttd>so he didn't
11:44<@petern:#openttd>or it's on another page
11:44<@petern:#openttd>saying it's a "PAT" file isn't really reverse engineering...
11:46<@orudge:#openttd>well, quite
11:46<@orudge:#openttd>People have in the past either managed to convert those files, or possibly they just re-recorded the MIDI through an MPU-401 interface or something
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11:53<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15092 /trunk/bin/ai/library/queue/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [NoAI]: make the library internal class name consistant with their directory name
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12:00<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15093 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_station.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: check if a tile is valid before using IsTileType (bug found by Zuu, patch by Yexo)
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12:30<@Belugas:#openttd>that ip range ban discussion is soooo boring
12:31<SpComb:#openttd>let's talk about network code instead, then
12:31<goodger:#openttd>or how best to have my hair cut to conceal my male pattern baldness :P
12:32<SpComb:#openttd>that's hardly relevant to OpenTTD :(
12:32<goodger:#openttd>yeah, but it's a lot more interesting
12:33<SpComb:#openttd>lies
12:33<goodger:#openttd>"male pattern baldness at 18 years old?" etc.
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12:33<@Belugas:#openttd>any time will do
12:34*SpComb:#openttd pondered about having his hair cut just now
12:34<SpComb:#openttd>haven't been to a barbers' for... over three years now
12:34<goodger:#openttd>yeah, but I thought it usually had the decency to wait until the late 30s
12:35<@Belugas:#openttd>it's genetic
12:35<goodger:#openttd>hm#
12:36<@Belugas:#openttd>i'm way older than 30s (alas) and i still have all my hair
12:36<goodger:#openttd>my father's 57 and he has the same hair as me :S
12:36<goodger:#openttd>but he was grey at 35
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12:37*Belugas:#openttd sympathizes
12:37-!-vraa [~vraa@h25.81.141.67.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd
12:37<goodger:#openttd>thank you
12:38<goodger:#openttd>good afternoon, vraa
12:38<vraa:#openttd>good morning goodger
12:38<vraa:#openttd>still before noon here :)
12:38<goodger:#openttd>ah
12:38<goodger:#openttd>ah, yes, texas
12:38<@Belugas:#openttd>just got past noon 39minutes ago ^_^
12:38<goodger:#openttd>I get used to EST
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12:42<goodger:#openttd>thanks to vraa, I have reduced my friend-whiteness level to 96.55%
12:42<goodger:#openttd>so I'm beating the county average [99.0% white population]
12:43<vraa:#openttd>:)
12:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you have friends?
12:43<frosch123:#openttd>why is mb posting screenshots in french?
12:44<goodger:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: I was just counting my facebook friends. the concept of friends is less rigid outside of the world of boolean logic
12:44<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>frosch123: nobody fully understands the ways of the master
12:44<goodger:#openttd>heh
12:45<goodger:#openttd>I took a US SAT test last night
12:45<goodger:#openttd>it was infuriating, I got about half way through and then accidentally hit "refresh" on the scoresheet popup
12:47<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i have no idea what that means
12:47<@Belugas:#openttd>yeah... in french... strange.. i'd expected at least in german...
12:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but i do remember that he has done such things in the past, too
12:48<@Belugas:#openttd>master? ho... come on...
12:49<Aali:#openttd>hmm
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12:50<Aali:#openttd>grf presets are saved with '\' as path separator on windows, while just about every other system expects '/', could this be changed to be consistent no matter where you saved it?
12:55<@petern:#openttd>huh?
12:56<goodger:#openttd>eh?
12:56<@petern:#openttd>wah?
12:56<goodger:#openttd>queh?
12:56<@petern:#openttd>queeg?
12:56<goodger:#openttd>hm?
12:57<goodger:#openttd>no queeging, that doesn't count as a request for clarification
12:58<Aali:#openttd>I moved a windows .cfg file to a linux install, and all grfs in subdirs disappeared from all my presets
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12:58<Aali:#openttd>sure, it was easy to fix but its still not nice
12:58<@Belugas:#openttd>prrrrrt
12:59<@Belugas:#openttd>the fact that windows requires path separators to be \ does not strike you as a good reason for that?
13:00<@Belugas:#openttd>it wold actually mean parsing the presets and change them back to the os specifics
13:00<@Belugas:#openttd>come on...
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13:00<@petern:#openttd>i guess that's doable
13:00<@petern:#openttd>but i cba ;)
13:00<+glx:#openttd>Aali: grf are stored with full path IIRC
13:00<@petern:#openttd>doesn't stop someone writing a clean patch :D
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13:01<@petern:#openttd>glx, relative to data, no?
13:01<+glx:#openttd>not always
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13:02<Aali:#openttd>ah, and that would break anyway, obviously
13:03<@petern:#openttd>absolute, yeah
13:03<@petern:#openttd>shouldn't be too hard to switch \ to / or vice versa though, really
13:04<Aali:#openttd>I'll just work the sed magic for now :P
13:05<@petern:#openttd>not up to the task of writing a patch? :(
13:07<@Belugas:#openttd>hehe
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13:11<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15094 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Feature: Add support for IP range bans using CIDR notation.
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13:15<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15095 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
13:15<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Add [NoAI]: allow AI Libraries to be in .tar files (subdir required, as with AIs
13:15<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Add [NoAI]: allow multiple versions of the same AI co-exist
13:15<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Change [NoAI]: updated the whole method of AI (Library) finding and loading; it is now much more clear and transparent
13:15<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Change [NoAI]: the name of the AI is now the name used by CreateInstance()
13:15<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Change [NoAI]: make the AI finder a bit more clever, mostly related to version finding
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13:25<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15096 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_scanner.cpp ai_scanner.hpp):
13:25<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Fix [NoAI]: free memory when no longer needed
13:25<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Fix [NoAI]: when there are multiple versions of one AI, never randonly pick an older one, but always the latest
13:26<@Belugas:#openttd>mmh... i can imagine someone will come in his pants, now... wrt r15094
13:27<@petern:#openttd>probably
13:28<@petern:#openttd>or complain it doesn't support some other format
13:29<@Belugas:#openttd>:)
13:31<@petern:#openttd>i did love their suggestions though
13:32<@petern:#openttd>absolutely no clue what it would've achieved... very little i suppose
13:32<goodger:#openttd>:S
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13:34<@Belugas:#openttd>God Only knows... admin stuff... go figure
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13:54<nicfer:#openttd>one question, would be possible to run a openttd client in a framebuffer?
13:54<@petern:#openttd>it would be pretty hard not to
13:55<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: translators * r15097 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:55<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-15 18:47:56
13:55<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 8 fixed by tucalipe (8)
13:55<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: danish - 4 fixed, 1 changed by beruic (5)
13:55<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: dutch - 6 fixed by habell (6)
13:55<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: english_US - 76 fixed by WhiteRabbit (76)
13:55<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: french - 7 fixed, 1 changed by glx (8)
13:55<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15098 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Fix [FS#2535]: MinGW's find didn't remove the .svn directories during bundling as we told it to, so we're using a slightly different approach that seems to work
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14:04<Progman:#openttd>"Now in the GUI on your AI [...]" where is this gui?
14:04<Yexo:#openttd>Progman: it's wip
14:05<Progman:#openttd>hmm, and how do I change the settings for an ai (instead of changing the code of the ai itself)?
14:05<Yexo:#openttd>in the config file
14:06<Yexo:#openttd>under [ai_players]
14:06<Progman:#openttd>there are several "none =" lines
14:07<Yexo:#openttd>say you want to configure admiralai, replace one line with: "admiralai = start_date=3,use_busses=0"
14:07<Yexo:#openttd>the first line is the first company (usually you), so you'll want to replace the second line
14:07<Progman:#openttd>aah, thanks
14:07<Yexo:#openttd>start_date is the time in days after the last AI that it'll start
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14:35<angelo:#openttd>what does the 'autoreplace all vehicles in the depot" do?
14:35<angelo:#openttd>button
14:36<frosch123:#openttd>it applies the autoreplace rules to all vehicles inside the depot
14:37<frosch123:#openttd>it does also autorenew though if they are old enough
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14:38<Wolf01:#openttd>hello
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14:56<SpComb:#openttd>hmm... there's a `hg identify` command that should work well for findversion.sh
14:56<SpComb:#openttd>it's presumeably faster than hg status
14:57<@petern:#openttd>$ time hg status
14:57<@petern:#openttd>real 0m0.159s
14:57<@petern:#openttd>$ time hg identify
14:57<@petern:#openttd>cfaa538f9df7 tip
14:57<@petern:#openttd>real 0m0.386s
14:57<el_en:#openttd>SpComb: btw, "Click the timestamp/nick to view the line in it's context" has one apostrophe too many.
15:00<SpComb:#openttd>petern: it also does a hg log, hg parents, etc
15:00<@petern:#openttd>seems not to
15:01<@petern:#openttd>as that "cfaa..." was the only line from it
15:02<SpComb:#openttd>I mean findversion.sh
15:02<@petern:#openttd>uh huh
15:02*SpComb:#openttd is trying to do mercurial version autodetection in a cmake build script, and failing
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15:14<nicfer:#openttd>with running openttd on a framebuffer I meant to run it on linux without a x server
15:16<@petern:#openttd>fbcon, then
15:16<@petern:#openttd>"frame buffer" is rather generic and extends to any sort of buffer holding a frame... which any raster graphics device has to do...
15:17<@petern:#openttd>SDL might be capable of using fbcon if you invoke it with the correct parameters, or bits installed.
15:17<@petern:#openttd>you might need to be root though
15:20<nicfer:#openttd>root to run openttd?
15:20<@petern:#openttd>to let it fiddle with fbcon, yeah. i don't know though
15:20<OwenS:#openttd>To access the framebuffer
15:24<@Belugas:#openttd>hehe... have not seen that peter closed the more than 8 players bug. no wonder i cold not find it...
15:24<@Belugas:#openttd>well... one task less to work on...
15:25<nicfer:#openttd>wouldn't be risky to run openttd as root?
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15:25<OwenS:#openttd>Yes, but you will have to do it if your fbcon parameters are tight (Which is normally a Good Thing (tm))
15:26<@Belugas:#openttd>what are the risks involved? (jsut wondering_
15:26<OwenS:#openttd>Can steal your FB from X, which can probably horribly confuse it considering X's fragility
15:27<@Belugas:#openttd>ha.. ok... was expecting something like intrusion or such
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15:27*Belugas:#openttd is a total nulitty when it comes to linux world
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15:28<OwenS:#openttd>X has some really silly stuff also
15:28<OwenS:#openttd>Like PCI remapping support (For sucky kernels which can't do it themselves?)
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15:29<edeca:#openttd>Well it runs on more than one OS, so that's the quickest hack ;)
15:29<edeca:#openttd>Rather than argue with 3 different sets of kernel hackers who all have their own bibles
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15:29<OwenS:#openttd>Why isn't the kernel remapping the hardware properly in the first place? It's a piece of cake!
15:30<OwenS:#openttd>Just find some free address space and start doling out address mappings
15:30<edeca:#openttd>Heh :)
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15:30<OwenS:#openttd>It's much easier to do that in the kernel which has access to the address map (From the BIOS, OpenFirmware, EFI, GRUB, Das Uboot, compiled in, etc)
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15:32<edeca:#openttd>I agree with you! But imagine selling that to some developers ;)
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15:33<@petern:#openttd>i miss dga :(
15:34<edeca:#openttd>dga?
15:34<@petern:#openttd>x11 extension
15:34<@petern:#openttd>allowed for extremely fast device access, but needed root
15:35<@petern:#openttd>it also allowed x to switch to 8bpp
15:35<OwenS:#openttd>I'm gonna celebrate when they finally decide that DRI was a crappy idea and that nVIDIA were right to ignore it
15:35*edeca:#openttd hates getting nvidia to work with twinview
15:36<@petern:#openttd>hmm
15:36<edeca:#openttd>I've got 2 different size screens, which buggers up everything usually
15:36<@petern:#openttd>only nvidia *does* twinview
15:36<edeca:#openttd>Yea, exactly.
15:36<OwenS:#openttd>I use Twinview also :)
15:36<edeca:#openttd>Because 2 different screens doesn't work nicely with xinerama or other solutions
15:37<edeca:#openttd>(in my experience, I'm sure it's possible)
15:37<OwenS:#openttd>On two different sized screens
15:37<OwenS:#openttd>I have a 19" 1280x1024 which I do useful stuff on, and an old 15" 1024x768 which I stick XChat and Kopete on :p
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15:38<edeca:#openttd>Heh, I've got a huge widescreen thing that I mostly have to look cool with compiz and a little 19" for working on
15:38<@petern:#openttd>xinerama seems to work nicely for me
15:39<OwenS:#openttd>Compiz? Bleh. KWin4's effects are good enough :p
15:39<edeca:#openttd>OwenS: I haven't compiled that yet :)
15:39<OwenS:#openttd>Compiled? Gentoo?!
15:39<edeca:#openttd>My gentoo/paludis build is completely buggered due to 3 years of neglect
15:39<OwenS:#openttd>heh lol
15:39<OwenS:#openttd>Gentoo is basically dying it seems =(
15:39<Zuu:#openttd>My problem with twinview in Linux though is to get my wacom to work in twinview too. So the wacom pad represents the space of both screens.
15:39<OwenS:#openttd>Which is disappointing, cause they have excelent howtos :p
15:40<edeca:#openttd>OwenS: It's a great idea, but a lot of overhead.
15:40<edeca:#openttd>OwenS: And portage *sucks*
15:40<OwenS:#openttd>apt-get ftw
15:40<edeca:#openttd>Yeah, I love aptitude
15:40*edeca:#openttd has super-cow powers
15:41<OwenS:#openttd>My first Linux distro (...that worked...) was Debian, stable no less, in an era of Ubuntu. Go figure
15:41<OwenS:#openttd>This was just after Sarge was released of course, but still
15:41<edeca:#openttd>Mm, I quite like ubuntu but it has its own problems
15:42<OwenS:#openttd>I'm now using Ubuntu 8.10 and cursing it's broken Bluetooth
15:42<edeca:#openttd>Yeah, 8.10 broke loads of hardware (gfx & audio in my experience)
15:43<OwenS:#openttd>The dist-upgrade, even from an 8.04 with the KDE4.1 repositories and other cruft, worked fine for me, but Bluetooth is broken cause BlueZ 3 doesn't work with the kernel and KDEBluetooth doesn't work with BlueZ 4
15:44<edeca:#openttd>Ooh, squirrel, whassat.
15:44*edeca:#openttd looks
15:44-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@45.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
15:44<OwenS:#openttd>Programming language?
15:44<Terkhen:#openttd>good evening
15:44<edeca:#openttd>And a new patches GUI possibly? All these changes in a few days, I can't keep up :)
15:45<edeca:#openttd>Hi Terkhen, cheese?
15:45<Terkhen:#openttd>what kind of cheese?
15:45<edeca:#openttd>Whatever type you like!
15:46<Terkhen:#openttd>a slice of gorgonzola, then
15:48<edeca:#openttd>Good choice.
15:57<edeca:#openttd>Oooh, shiny new patch GUI!
15:57<edeca:#openttd>That's really nice
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15:59<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15099 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_map.cpp: -Fix (r15078): GetTileIndex(0, -1) is perfectly fine
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16:08<Aali:#openttd>nice
16:08<Aali:#openttd>funny side-effect/bug/cheat in cargodest
16:08<Aali:#openttd>you can have a vehicle "loading" at a station to increase your rating and not really have it load anything, ever
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16:11<Yexo:#openttd>it's that the same in trunk? Just make a iron-ore train full load at a station where there'll never be any iron ore
16:11<Yexo:#openttd>hmm, that doesn't work :(
16:12<frosch123:#openttd>you would need a rating for every destination in cargodest :)
16:12<Aali:#openttd>or change the rating system to only count vehicles that are actually loading something
16:13-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
16:13<Aali:#openttd>actually, I guess you could make it depend on the vehicles orders
16:14<Aali:#openttd>no unloading order at a station that accepts the cargo = no rating increase
16:18<edeca:#openttd>So then you just add another order with a station it can't even get to?
16:19<Aali:#openttd>it will still load
16:19<Aali:#openttd>and then you have to unload or sell it
16:20<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15100 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp api/ai_map.hpp api/ai_map.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: introduce TILE_INVALID as const
16:22<dihedral:#openttd>hello TB
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16:38*edeca:#openttd suggests adding src/3rdparty/* to .hgignore
16:38<edeca:#openttd>And similar to .gitignore too, probably
16:38<Aali:#openttd>err
16:38<Aali:#openttd>hg automatically ignores nested hg repos
16:39<@Belugas:#openttd>nice... now i need to take care of amex commercial cards :(
16:39<edeca:#openttd>Ar, I didn't check it out :)
16:39<edeca:#openttd>I'll clone it into there instead
16:39<edeca:#openttd>Aali: Thanks
16:40<Aali:#openttd>don't thank me, I didn't implement that feature :P
16:41<edeca:#openttd>So *that's* why they do those stupid safety demos: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7832191.stm
16:42<Aali:#openttd>talk about bad luck, both engines trashed by birds
16:44<edeca:#openttd>Yeah, can't win them all :)
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17:24<Wolf01:#openttd>there's any dev (or good at coding) not busy who want to help me?
17:25<Wolf01:#openttd>I'm trying to understand how to draw a sloped track under the stations instead of the plain track
17:26<Aali:#openttd>is the track not part of the station sprite?
17:26<Aali:#openttd>or is that just some grfs?
17:26<Wolf01:#openttd>looking at this:
17:26<Wolf01:#openttd> image += GetCustomStationGroundRelocation(statspec, st, ti->tile);
17:26<Wolf01:#openttd> image += custom_ground_offset;
17:27<Wolf01:#openttd>seem the track and the stations are 2 different sprites
17:27<Wolf01:#openttd>but I'm very not familiar with drawing code
17:27<@petern:#openttd>you will need to add to the spec to handle sloped tiles
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17:46*SpComb:#openttd managed to make cmake do what he wants it to do
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18:00<@SmatZ:#openttd>midnight... again....
18:00<TinoDidriksen:#openttd>Has a tendency to occur every day. Blasted thing.
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18:03<@SmatZ:#openttd>:-(
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18:10<Wolf01:#openttd>ok, last try, then I'll go sleep
18:11<@SmatZ:#openttd>good night, Wolf01
18:11<Wolf01:#openttd>if only it doesn't take 15 minutes to link the objects -.-
18:12<@SmatZ:#openttd>huh
18:12<Rubidium:#openttd>1) don't build MSVC release builds when you don't need the speed
18:12<Rubidium:#openttd>2) use gcc if you want the linking to go faster, compiling goes slightly slower though
18:13<Wolf01:#openttd>I always forgot that debug doesn't make the exe, and when I want the speed I always forgot to switch back to debug :P
18:19<Wolf01:#openttd>ok, I managed to change the ground sprite
18:21<dihedral:#openttd>✖ wide awake ✔ really tired
18:21<dihedral:#openttd>good night
18:22<@SmatZ:#openttd>good night, dihedral! nice UTF-8 art!
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18:32<@petern:#openttd>debug doesn't make an exe? i must be doing it wrong...
18:33<@SmatZ:#openttd>http://tapenoisediary.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/your-doing-it-wrong.jpg
18:39<Wolf01:#openttd>no, my MSVC has become stupid, I must have touched something for another project and since that it doesn't make .exe anymore on debug for every project
18:45<Wolf01:#openttd>OK! now I have sloped roadstops with the right graphics
18:45<Wolf01:#openttd>works like a charm
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18:47<Nite_Owl:#openttd>Hello all
18:48*Wolf01:#openttd http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/sloped_roadstops.PNG
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18:51<+glx:#openttd>works but looks strange
18:51<Wolf01:#openttd>rivers look strange too without grf
18:51<+glx:#openttd>but they are not on the road ;)
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18:52<Wolf01:#openttd>uhm, I missed a check for the road bay :P
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19:02<Wolf01:#openttd>and stations too, but they look really weird
19:02<Wolf01:#openttd>and with weird I mean really weird
19:03*Wolf01:#openttd http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/sloped_stations_final.PNG
19:04<Wolf01:#openttd>this is the best I can do
19:05<+glx:#openttd>you really need a new prop in grf spec :)
19:06<+glx:#openttd>because current graphics are not good on slopes
19:09<@SmatZ:#openttd>roadstops aren't that bad ;)
19:11<fjb:#openttd>I'm getting seasick...
19:12<Wolf01:#openttd>now I'll post the patch and the screenshot in the forum, maybe somebody will be interested and maybe I can get suggestions to improve it
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19:24<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15101 /trunk/ (32 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed)
19:24<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Change [API CHANGE]: more consistant naming for consts:
19:24<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: INVALID_TOWN_RATING -> TOWN_RATING_INVALID
19:24<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: INVALID_TRANSPORT -> TRANSPORT_INVALID
19:24<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: INVALID_ORDER -> ORDER_INVALID
19:24<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: INVALID_GROUP -> GROUP_INVALID
19:24<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: GROUP_ALL/DEFAULT -> ALL/DEFAULT_GROUP
19:27<CIA-2:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15102 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_event_types.cpp: -Fix (r15101): somehow makedepend fucked up (patch by Yexo)
19:29<Wolf01:#openttd>'night to everyone
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19:51<@Belugas:#openttd>George, let's make that house name callback
19:51<Rubidium:#openttd>a man with a mission (no, not Stacey)
19:52<@Belugas:#openttd>?
19:52<@Belugas:#openttd>reference missing...
19:52<@Belugas:#openttd>must google
19:54<Rubidium:#openttd>Dakar 2009, Hans Stacey's team uses MAN trucks and has "MAN with a mission" as slogan
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20:03<@Belugas:#openttd>:) a well of knowledge
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21:34<@Belugas:#openttd>mmh.. wonder if the callback should be availabe even when the house is not completed
21:34<@Belugas:#openttd>might be interesting
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21:58<@Belugas:#openttd>mmh...
21:58<@Belugas:#openttd>done
21:58<@Belugas:#openttd>but...
21:58<@Belugas:#openttd>like...
21:58<@Belugas:#openttd>feels a tiny bit wrong
21:59<@Belugas:#openttd>let us sleep on it
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22:13<uchennakema:#openttd> sup gentlemen
22:13<uchennakema:#openttd>W
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22:34<Tefad:#openttd>GENTLEMEN.
22:34<RS-SM:#openttd>behold?
22:34<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the correct phrase would be "how are you"
22:35<RS-SM:#openttd>anyway
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22:35<RS-SM:#openttd>why are long units the best
22:35<RS-SM:#openttd>I mean they make epic truck runs possible
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 16 00:00:10 2009