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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-01-18

---Logopened Sun Jan 18 00:00:15 2009
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00:49<Gekz:#openttd>yay for bash script that changes version information per file
01:06<Gekz:#openttd>yay
01:07<Gekz:#openttd>finished the repo
01:07<Gekz:#openttd>should test it I should
01:13<Alberth:#openttd>Gekz: just like 'learning on the job', apply 'testing on the job' :)
01:24<Gekz:#openttd>lol
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03:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd><Gekz> Eddi|zuHause would know <- no, there isn't
03:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>very unfortunately
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03:45<Wolf01:#openttd>hello
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04:03<Gekz:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: you use Debian, right?
04:04<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>no, i use openSUSE
04:04<Gekz:#openttd>oh, that's horrible
04:04<Gekz:#openttd>I'm sorry
04:04<Gekz:#openttd>lol
04:04<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, i love you, too.
04:04<Gekz:#openttd>haha
04:04<Gekz:#openttd>SUSE is the one distro of Linux I really can't stand
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04:04<Gekz:#openttd>it hates me on a personal level
04:05<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>strange, we have a mutual agreement of not disturbing each other too much
04:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>anyway, it beats windows in almost every aspect
04:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and most of the default settings are sane
04:17<@petern:#openttd>perhaps it is you who are the toad
04:20<Gekz:#openttd>petern: oi
04:20<Gekz:#openttd>I have set up a debian repo for nightly builds
04:20<Gekz:#openttd>and made a script that unpacks teh debs, gives it a correct version based on the build, and repacks it
04:20<Gekz:#openttd>although I haven't worked out why I can't gpg sign them
04:20<Gekz:#openttd>probably because I dont have the keys :P
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04:22<@petern:#openttd>good for you
04:22<Gekz:#openttd>you're quite evil.
04:22<Gekz:#openttd>I dont understand why the nightlies aren't given the proper revision number in the control file anyway
04:23<Gekz:#openttd>they have 0.7~svn without the revision number
04:23<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I believe it's done to annoy you :p
04:23<@petern:#openttd>because we'd have to change it on every commit
04:23<Gekz:#openttd>no, it could be done on ./configure
04:23<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>can't you use some keyword magic?
04:24<Gekz:#openttd>petern: who is in charge of the openttd.org servers?
04:24<@petern:#openttd>TrueBrain/Rubidium
04:25<Gekz:#openttd>ok
04:25<Gekz:#openttd>I'll harass them about it
04:25<Gekz:#openttd>and it would only require a single cron job to be run once a night to be updated too
04:26<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>it would make more sense to add it to the script that builds the nightlies
04:26<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>that way you have no chance of races
04:26<Gekz:#openttd>races?
04:26<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>race conditions
04:26<Gekz:#openttd>yeah
04:27<Gekz:#openttd>actually that'd be easy
04:27<Gekz:#openttd>just add the script that cron would run as a cleanup script
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04:49<Gekz:#openttd>TrueBrain: has you awakenness?
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05:06<George:#openttd>Should I report this as bug:
05:06<George:#openttd>WrightAI(v2)
05:06<George:#openttd>(this) INSTANCE
05:06<George:#openttd>* FUNCTION (Start()) F:\Games\OpenTTD\ai\wrightai\main.nut line (338)
05:06<George:#openttd>Your script made an error: the index ‘MY_COMPANY’ does not exist
05:06<George:#openttd>WrightAI generates error for me. R15130
05:07<@Rubidium:#openttd>that's an old version
05:09<George:#openttd>Old version of WrightAI?
05:09<@Rubidium:#openttd>yup
05:10<@Rubidium:#openttd>it got removed from the nightly builds
05:10<@Rubidium:#openttd>but extracting the build zip/whatever doesn't remove the files
05:11<George:#openttd>Is there a new version available anywhere?
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05:17<@Rubidium:#openttd>you can download it in game
05:19<George:#openttd>Repository? How can upload my GRFs to it?
05:19<@petern:#openttd>here http://www.openttd.org/en/bananas/manager/
05:20<Gekz:#openttd>Rubidium: how does setting up a debian repository for nightly builds sound to you?
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05:22<George:#openttd>after entering my login it redirects me to http://www.openttd.org/ru/accounts/profile/ and generates 404 error
05:23<@petern:#openttd>apparently so
05:23<@petern:#openttd>i believe you can go back and it will work
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05:24<@Rubidium:#openttd>TrueBrain: sounds like login's broken (again)
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05:35<George:#openttd>Version field is too short, I need at least 5 more symbols :(
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05:36<George:#openttd>"beta 5 (13 Jan 2009)"
05:37<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I noticed a lot were truncated in the list
05:37<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>that is in game
05:40<canidae:#openttd>i'm trying out a new railroad layout, but i'm having a fair deal of issues with trains that refuse to enter depots for serving. can someone tell me what's wrong with my layout? (signals next to stations are two-way path signals, rest are one-way path signals) http://exent.net/~canidae/servicing.png
05:41<canidae:#openttd>ctrl-click depot makes the train head for a depot
05:41<canidae:#openttd>but regular servicing it refuses
05:42<canidae:#openttd>s/serving/servicing/, a couple lines up :s
05:43<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>can't see why trains aren't going to the depot
05:43<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>do you have any depot orders?
05:43<canidae:#openttd>no
05:44<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>ok, and you haven't got breakdowns off + no servicing with breakdowns off?
05:44<canidae:#openttd>reliability is down on 31% now, and it's been 18 months since last servicing, normal breakdowns
05:44<canidae:#openttd>(train can't get from one station to the other without 3 breakdowns)
05:45<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>yeah the screen clearly shows that, I need to pay more attention
05:45<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>ok, what if you take out the path signal in front of the depot
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05:45<canidae:#openttd>let's see...
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05:47<canidae:#openttd>it's gonna take a while before the train reach the depot, 23% reliability now :p
05:47<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>:)
05:48<canidae:#openttd>missed the first depot, but maybe the other on the way back
05:49<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>if it missed the first, I don't think it will take the second
05:49<canidae:#openttd>me neither :)
05:49<canidae:#openttd>beginning to suspect there's a bug somewhere around here
05:50<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I know it's worked for me if I have a more compact servicing arrangement
05:50<canidae:#openttd>missed the second one too
05:50<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>ok, so if you take out all the signals inside the "depot triangle", does it work?
05:51<canidae:#openttd>can try
05:51<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I do know that trains wont go too far out of their way for an automatic service
05:51<canidae:#openttd>hmm
05:52<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>and all the extra signals may cause it not to see the depot as part of it's path
05:52<George:#openttd>Why do version at http://www.openttd.org/en/bananas/manager/ and in game are different? (last letter from the version number is lost in game)
05:53<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>which revision?
05:53<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I saw something about that in the changelog
05:53<canidae:#openttd>did not help with removing signals... can try building a depot closer to the track
05:54<canidae:#openttd>hmm, looks like this might be it
05:55<canidae:#openttd>shame, liked this setup, no sharp turns into the depot
05:55<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>checked out the wiki?
05:55<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>the info there may be outdated, but it did have some niceish setups
05:55<canidae:#openttd>didn't find anything in the "servicing" page
05:56<canidae:#openttd>hmm
05:56<canidae:#openttd>well, "It also avoids the possibility that a vehicle may need servicing at an inconvenient point on its route (maybe the nearest depot is a long way away)." probably should be a clue
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05:57<@petern:#openttd>tony hart :(
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06:00<Zuu:#openttd>canidae: Those depots look close enough to the track. 16 or 18 tiles is the limit (one of them, I just don't remember which)
06:00<canidae:#openttd>well, it certainly appears like they're not :)
06:01<Zuu:#openttd>canidae: Did you try put them just next to the track and got it working?
06:01<canidae:#openttd>yes
06:02<Zuu:#openttd>Okay, it use to work for me hehe :)
06:04<Zuu:#openttd>But I seldome use the track-layout you have used with double track and intersections so often.
06:05<canidae:#openttd>it's nice with breakdowns on normal :)
06:05*Zuu:#openttd never plays with breakdowns on normal
06:05<Zuu:#openttd>Reduced happens but never normal.
06:05<canidae:#openttd>hmmm
06:06<canidae:#openttd>i've tried a new layout i was sure would work
06:06<canidae:#openttd>let me grab another screenshot
06:07<canidae:#openttd>http://exent.net/~canidae/servicing2.png
06:08<canidae:#openttd>this really can't be too far away from the route, can it?
06:08<Zuu:#openttd>Far away is counted in rail tiles.
06:08<canidae:#openttd>hmm
06:08<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>ok, I just got "dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer" 3 times
06:09<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>that was about the same time I downloaded 3 ECS vectors from the server
06:09<canidae:#openttd>fine, i'll limit the "queue" to 1 track, then
06:09<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>Did someone make an off by one error somewhere?
06:09<Zuu:#openttd>So this one is further away than the old one. And if you uese PBS then I think you need to count from the signal where it must decide if it should go to depot or not. But even then your last depot layout should be okay. It's on 12 tiles.
06:10<canidae:#openttd>err...
06:10<canidae:#openttd>new screenshot coming up :p
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06:11<canidae:#openttd>http://exent.net/~canidae/servicing3.png
06:12<canidae:#openttd>still too far, apparently
06:13<thadthudpucker:#openttd>i have been running ottd on windows for some time, and i would like to know if there is a place i can put my openttd.cfg file now that i am on linux?
06:13<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>in ~/.openttd
06:13<thadthudpucker:#openttd>and what is in my home folder?
06:13*yorick:#openttd would like aircraft that are only capable of landing on intercontental airports
06:13<thadthudpucker:#openttd>er, That?
06:13<yorick:#openttd>or at least the possibility of setting so
06:13<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>thadthudpucker: your question confuses me
06:14<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>there is a folder called .openttd in your home folder
06:14<thadthudpucker:#openttd>where does openttd.cfg go in linux
06:14<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>openttd.cfg lives there
06:14<thadthudpucker:#openttd>Ah got it now
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06:16<Alberth:#openttd>canidae: trains look for a depot every now and then, at most 16 or 18 tiles. The further away the depot is from the 'normal' track, the less chance you have that the train looks 'at the right time' for a depot.
06:16<Alberth:#openttd>canidae: in particular, they don't look constantly afaik
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06:16<Zuu:#openttd>canidae: Try to use servicing interval in days instead.
06:17<thadthudpucker:#openttd>is there a way to stop trains from turning around impossibly while waiting for a signal?
06:17<Zuu:#openttd>I don't understand the % method, but all I know is that it is not what you think it is.
06:17<thadthudpucker:#openttd>oftentimes, they will turn around right before it turns green, while on a one way track
06:17<Zuu:#openttd>Unless you have read about it somewhere explaning % of what it uses.
06:18<Zuu:#openttd>thadthudpucker: Yes, using yapp parameters.
06:18<thadthudpucker:#openttd>neat...
06:19<canidae:#openttd>Zuu: 15% interval means that when the reliability is 15% less than max (eg. less than 85% for a vehicle with 100% max, less than 68% for 80% max), the train should head for a depot
06:19<Zuu:#openttd>I don't know then by hart, so you have to look for them. But there are parameters, so you can set waiting time for the PBS and non-pbs signals to 255 = infinity
06:19<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>in the [pf] section
06:19<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>there are 3 wait_blah settings
06:19<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>that's what you want
06:20<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I think
06:20<Zuu:#openttd>But if you want to change them in a running save game you need to use the console though
06:20<Zuu:#openttd>Use: patch name value
06:21<Zuu:#openttd>"patch" being the command, and name the name of the setting you like to change. And value, the new value.
06:22<Zuu:#openttd>If you ommit value it will tell you the current value.
06:22<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>canidae: ever tried setting the service interval to 85%?
06:22<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>maybe you have the "less than" part wrong
06:22<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>you don't want that
06:22<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>15% is about right
06:22<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>maybe it is "down to"?
06:22<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>no, it is definitely "down by"
06:23<Zuu:#openttd>canidae: First try set it to 30 days and see if your track-layout is working before blaming it at least.
06:23<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>if the "service at foo depot" order works, then it needed a service
06:24<canidae:#openttd>i'm trying Alberth's hint
06:24<canidae:#openttd>if it checks every x tile or something, then maybe i managed to build it so that it checks just before entering the station, or just after passing the intersection leading to the depot
06:24<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you should also try placing the depot closer to the main track, afaik trains don't chose depots for automatic servicing that are more than 16 (?) tiles away
06:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and it must chose to go to depot before hitting the signals before the switch
06:25<Zuu:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: If you look on the screenshots he has posted that limit is not a problem
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06:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it loosk awfully close to 16 tiles from here...
06:26<Zuu:#openttd>I counted one of them to 12 tiles. Which should be okay
06:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>from 1 tile before the signal
06:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>if it reserved past the signal, it cannot chose to go to depot anymore
06:27<Zuu:#openttd>uh, nope from the signal tile.
06:27<Zuu:#openttd>(is what I counted form)
06:27<Zuu:#openttd>from*
06:27<Zuu:#openttd>But on http://exent.net/~canidae/servicing3.png it is far under 16 anyways.
06:28<canidae:#openttd>i think Alberth may be right, train heads for depot when i moved them closer to the stations
06:28<Alberth:#openttd>maybe they count before turning the train around?
06:29<Zuu:#openttd>As far as I know it checks not just one time but constantly.
06:29<Zuu:#openttd>Or at least in front of each signal.
06:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>they are not constantly, but sporadic (afaik)
06:29<Zuu:#openttd>Between signals don't make sense.
06:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but the exact ways were always a little mystical to me
06:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>anyway, i play with breakdowns off
06:31<Zuu:#openttd>Having the depots in the schedule should rule out any problem of having the depot to far away right?
06:31<Zuu:#openttd>But might not be an option if you have many depots between each station.
06:32<canidae:#openttd>one more screenshot: http://exent.net/~canidae/servicing4.png
06:32<canidae:#openttd>from another railroad i got
06:32<canidae:#openttd>showing a train that volunteerly entered the depot
06:33<@petern:#openttd>how ugly :o
06:33<canidae:#openttd>(same distance as first screenshot, btw)
06:34<Zuu:#openttd>hmm, trying his track-layout I got same problem of train not entering depot.
06:34<Zuu:#openttd>But removing the signal between depot and main-track solves the issue.
06:35<Zuu:#openttd>Or you can replace the signal infront of the depot with a normal non-PBS signal.
06:36<Zuu:#openttd>Hmm, I was wrong. Even with PBS it enters depot. My problem was that the loop the train makes is shorter than 30 days.
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06:38<Zuu:#openttd>Seams to work here with %, but the condition for servicing must be True, when it checks these 16 tiles before. Not just next to the entrance, it seams.
06:41<Zuu:#openttd>Hmm, looks like it takes 15% minus the relability level it had when it exited the depot as limit.
06:42<Zuu:#openttd>So if it had 82% when it left depot 82*0.85 = 69.7. So when it has < 69.7 it will enter the depot.
06:44<Zuu:#openttd>Which fits good with what I see on my screen.
06:50<Alberth:#openttd>Zuu: yeah, the computer tends to do what the source says :)
06:51<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>until someone screws up a pointer of overflows some memory :)
06:51<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>*or
06:51<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>or because of cosmic dust...
06:51<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>also known as broken ram?
06:52<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>or just overclocking that is too agressive
06:52<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>or maybe a compiler bug
06:53<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>or even a kernel bug
06:53<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>ok I'll stop now
06:54<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>well, it theoretically is possible that ionising radiation may induce electrons somewhere they do not belong
06:54<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>yes, I suspect that everything I listed is more common though
06:54<mrfrenzy:#openttd>ionising radiation doesn't penetrate steel very well
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06:57<Ammler:#openttd>hmm, LaBaNaNaS wouldn't sound that bad :-)
06:57<Ammler:#openttd>and you could drop out the language files too :-)
07:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that'll cause horrible versioning nightmares
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07:08<Alberth:#openttd>and you cannot tell the user that his Internet connection is broken
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07:13<@petern:#openttd>i don't know how the base graphics part is supposed to work...
07:13<@petern:#openttd>http://fstdt.com/fundies/top100.aspx?archive=1
07:15<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>Ok, an OTTD savegame has some info about the newGRFs used
07:16<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>does it just store IDs?
07:16<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>or is there more that it keeps?
07:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>ID and MD5
07:16<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>ok
07:17<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>so if I get the message about it crashing while loading a game, and it shows a list of missing GRFs with md5s, are they what it wants to find or what it did find?
07:18<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>wait, there's an assertion before that
07:18<Ammler:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: the repo like prepared for version checks
07:18<Ammler:#openttd>*looks like
07:19<Ammler:#openttd>it has min and max version fields, which I didn't see a effect now :-)
07:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Ammler: yes, but you need new lng-packs for each nightly
07:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>or... almost
07:19<Ammler:#openttd>but those are compiled for every plattform the same?
07:20<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>imho, it isn't the right place...
07:20<Ammler:#openttd>or does a win lang differ from nix lang file?
07:20<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>no
07:22<George:#openttd>Rubidium: If I download a new AI in game, how can I configure it there? If download it separately, I can change the cfg file before starting OTTD, but what to do in game?
07:23<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>you mean start_ai in the console?
07:24<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I'm not sure if that works for files that weren't there when the game was started thoug
07:24<Ammler:#openttd>ConditionalZenith: he asked rubi, nobody else knows that ;-)
07:25<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I'm sure rubi will either agree or disagree with me :)
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07:31<@petern:#openttd>yeah, that content list might need a filter at some point
07:34<Ammler:#openttd>looks like most just hit "mark all" and download
07:35<Ammler:#openttd>they don't read things like "test grf" or such :-)
07:38<@petern:#openttd>there's on console version :/
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07:38<@petern:#openttd>bananas update
07:38<@petern:#openttd>bananas install convoy
07:38<@petern:#openttd>bananas upgrade
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07:38<@petern:#openttd>apt for ottd :p
07:40<energetic:#openttd>a console openttd version?
07:40<energetic:#openttd>track 234x129 to 125x129
07:41<@petern:#openttd>go away
07:41<@petern:#openttd>for the content downloader
07:41<Ammler:#openttd>hmm, if you could manipulate grf parameters of other newgrfs, you could make something like newgrf presets grfs (with dependencies)
07:42<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>so if I try to load an old save game, and it asserts and whinges about missing newGRFs, what's the next step? give up?
07:42<@petern:#openttd>action 14, depend on grfid with parameters?
07:42<@petern:#openttd>ConditionalZenith: install those newgrfs
07:42<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>they seem to be there
07:43<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I get lines like: NewGRF 4D413034 (ottdc_grfpack/1_other/OpenGFX/OpenGFX_-_newGUI_v0.4.grf) not found; checksum DA3F0E6112F58B245C17CAC294B1918A. Tried another NewGRF with same GRF ID
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07:43<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>The checksum listed matches the checksum of the file I have
07:43<George:#openttd>ConditionalZenith: I mean this admiralai = always_autorenew=0,build_statues=1,debug_signs=0,depot_near_station=1,start_date=1,use_busses=1,use_planes=1,use_trains=1,use_trucks=1
07:43<Ammler:#openttd>petern: version 8?
07:45<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>ahh, well start_ai takes parameters, if the ai is already started though, I don't know
07:47<Ammler:#openttd>ConditionalZenith: looks like you need the coop pack :-)
07:47<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I have the coop pack
07:47<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I have the svn version, this savegame apparently wants 7.0
07:47<Ammler:#openttd>it did not assert because of the line you pasted
07:48<Ammler:#openttd>mostly it is because of station grfs or vehicles
07:48<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>no, the assertion was src/pbs.cpp:83: bool TryReserveRailTrack(TileIndex, Track): Assertion `(GetTileTrackStatus(tile, TRANSPORT_RAIL, 0) & TrackToTrackBits(t)) != 0' failed.
07:48<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>apparently it was saved with r13032
07:48<Ammler:#openttd>yeah, sounds like station grf
07:49<Ammler:#openttd>isr
07:49<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>ok, dutch stations is one of the ones it complains about
07:49<Ammler:#openttd>Is it a save from our archive?
07:49<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>yes it is
07:50<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>public game 95 to be precise
07:50<Ammler:#openttd>and you use 7.3?
07:50<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I have the svn version of the pack
07:50<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I had to track down a couple of GRFs that were missing completely
07:50<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>which I did
07:50<Ammler:#openttd>7.3 is available from svn, too.
07:51<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>the game says it needs 7.0
07:51<Ammler:#openttd>it "should" be downwards compatible
07:51<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>so how does the svn differ from 7.3?
07:52<Ammler:#openttd>it will have fewer then 7.3
07:52<Ammler:#openttd>grfs which are available from bananas can be removed there
07:52<Ammler:#openttd>or it has newer grfs
07:52<George:#openttd>Is were a documentation about industry % of cargo transported? I'm comfused about having 2 station with rating above 65% and having a total for the industry below 60%. Why?
07:53<Ammler:#openttd>ConditionalZenith: we make tests with the release versions, no support for trunk.
07:54<Ammler:#openttd>(like everywhere)
07:55<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>ok, does tags/ottdc_grfpack == tags/7.3 ?
07:56<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>cause I have tags/ottdc_grfpack
07:56<Ammler:#openttd>ConditionalZenith: yes, #95 doesn't load here, either.
07:57<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>well the other thing I tried is building r13032
07:57<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I could load the game but it would always assert after a few seconds
07:58<Ammler:#openttd>strange :-(
07:58<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>it gave me the warning about using different versions of the GRFs though
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07:58<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>and it did also complain about openttdw.grf being missing or corrupt (it wasn't missing)
07:59<Ammler:#openttd>I am quite sure, it is because of the station grfs, train is in a station wich has no track tiles anymore.
08:05<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>It gave a different assert with the old binary
---Logclosed Sun Jan 18 08:05:52 2009
---Logopened Sun Jan 18 08:06:04 2009
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08:06<+glx:#openttd>Ammler: did you change station ggrfs?
08:06<@Rubidium:#openttd>ConditionalZenith: then any wrong/missing GRFs should be dumped onto the console
08:06<Ammler:#openttd>yep
08:06<@petern:#openttd>Ammler, no it was a joke :)
08:06<@Rubidium:#openttd>grfid + md5sum
08:06<+glx:#openttd>Ammler: so a non track tile became a track tile
08:06<Ammler:#openttd>petern: well, or an idea ;-)
08:06<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>yes, they were, and I verified that each one had the same md5 as the files I have
08:07<@petern:#openttd>Ammler, yeah, you could implement it...
08:07<Ammler:#openttd>:P
08:08<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>it seems to me like the md5 on the console is what it found, not what it wants
08:08<Zuu:#openttd>petern: Assert print, pause 5 seconds, and then a "just kidding" and it sleeps 1-2 seconds an then continues. :-D
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08:08<@petern:#openttd>:D
08:09<yorick:#openttd>there is no way to specify custom refit cost like you can do custom refit cap?
08:09<@petern:#openttd>don't think there is
08:13<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15135 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix/Change: allow str_validate (part of receiving strings from the network) to pass newlines instead of replacing them with question marks, but only when asked to do so.
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08:22<@petern:#openttd>hmm
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08:42<Zuu:#openttd>With r15130 you at least clearly know when you made a syntax error in an AI :-D
08:43<+glx:#openttd>hehe
08:46<Zuu:#openttd>Though using -d ai=5 I can get the error so it is not that bad.
08:53<Zuu:#openttd>Hmm, wonders if it is possible to make a regex that check for balanced paranteses.
08:53<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>a single type of parens?
08:53<Zuu:#openttd>single type yes.
08:54<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>hmm
08:54<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I see the need for recursion
08:55<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>which last I knew regexs couldn't do
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08:55<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>you can do \([^\)]*\) to match a single pair of closed parens
08:56<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>although that might need a bit of tweaking
08:56<Alberth:#openttd>Zuu: use an editor with highlighting of matching bracket
08:56<Zuu:#openttd>Alberth: Which I do, but have just not enabled it for .nut files. :)
08:57<Alberth:#openttd>Zuu: with (g)vim, jump to other bracket with %. That works always :)
08:57<Zuu:#openttd>Sure, but I have more than 1000 rows. :)
08:57<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>you can do a similar thing with emacs
08:58<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>emacs tells me ctrl+alt+b does it
08:58<Alberth:#openttd>Zuu: can you not abuse a highlighting for another language, eg c++ ?
08:58<Zuu:#openttd>But I guess getting .nut to work in gvim is the best option as just scrolling through the code makes it quickly clear if any unbalanced paranteses is in it. (red background of the character)
08:59<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>on emacs it works even if it doesn't recognize the filetype
08:59<Zuu:#openttd>Alberth: that's what I've did when I made the .nut lang declarations, which I'm surprised i have not installed at the moment. So I'm just LAZY :)
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09:00<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>or just use emacs and it will work right away :p
09:01<Alberth:#openttd>Zuu: Type a bracket at the end, then type % and see whether it jumps. That way you can home in on missing brackets quite quickly
09:01<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I'm jumping forward and backward parens in a .nut file right now :p
09:01<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>and that's without even looking for a squirrel mode
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09:02<Zuu:#openttd>Alberth: Yes I can do that, but then I would have to get through all my 1000+ lines. one after one. Then OpenTTD is faster even if it crashes at each found syntax error.
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09:09<blathijs:#openttd>Gekz: A Debian repository with nightlies is still on my todo list
09:09<@petern:#openttd>heh
09:09<@petern:#openttd>rorserver: rorthomas * r250 /tests/raknet/ (client/client.cpp server/server.cpp): updated
09:09<@petern:#openttd>^ verbose commit messages :o
09:10<Zuu:#openttd>Here is the .nut declaration hacks I made long time a go: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=568055#p568055
09:10<Zuu:#openttd>(for vim)
09:11<Gekz:#openttd>blathijs: I've completed the scripts
09:11<Gekz:#openttd>it's done
09:14<yorick:#openttd>ah, so there rorthom is
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09:50<canidae:#openttd>is it possible to change settings for the "performance rating"? eg. make "delivered" give score of 500 instead of 400, or change 40,000 units delivered to 50,000?
09:51<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>define possible
09:51<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>if you change the source and recompile, yes
09:51<canidae:#openttd>without editing code & compiling :p
09:51<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>in that case, no
09:51<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>well I shouldn't be so hasty
09:51<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>it's probably possible to find the constant in the binary and change it using a hex editor
09:52<canidae:#openttd>i've not seen a setting for it, but it could be some obscure name (like "custom_diff", or "diff_custom")
09:52<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>but I'm sure you would recompile before attempting taht
09:52<SmatZ:#openttd>or prepare a savegame that causes buffer overflow and overwrites these constants in the code
09:52<Gekz:#openttd>loll
09:52<Gekz:#openttd>Omg
09:52<Gekz:#openttd>you people
09:52<Gekz:#openttd>Stop that.
09:52<Gekz:#openttd>blathijs: are you there?
09:52<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>so the short answer is no, there's no setting
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10:09<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>swiss town names is causing problems with the content service
10:09<blathijs:#openttd>Gekz: Yeah, bit busy
10:09<blathijs:#openttd>Gekz: I'd like to see what you have, but I don't have any time now
10:09<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>it is constantly switching me between 1.0 and 0.3, every time I select update
10:10<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>wait, maybe no 0.3
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10:10<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>but it insists I update it every time
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10:11<blathijs:#openttd>Gekz: Do you have it online somewhere, or can you query me?
10:12*blathijs:#openttd afk
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10:34<@Rubidium:#openttd>ConditionalZenith: looks like the packaging went wrong
10:34<rtypo:#openttd>i was playing on a server and suddenly my comany and all i owned vanished
10:34<rtypo:#openttd>wtf :(
10:34<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>while you were on the server?
10:34<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>or between visits?
10:34<rtypo:#openttd>yes
10:34<rtypo:#openttd>no, i rejoined
10:34<rtypo:#openttd>and then all gone
10:35<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>I would say the admin deleted you
10:35<rtypo:#openttd>stupid admin =(
10:35<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>had it been a long time since you were on the server?
10:35<rtypo:#openttd>yes
10:36<rtypo:#openttd>but i quit a minute and rejoined
10:36<rtypo:#openttd>but no, in a few seconds after rejoining
10:36<rtypo:#openttd>in fact, i hope it was the admin
10:37<rtypo:#openttd>it's better than bugs or hackers or anything else
10:37<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>well it seems the most likely explanation
10:37<rtypo:#openttd>i hope so
10:37<rtypo:#openttd>maybe i broked some rules or something
10:37<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>you didn't go bankrupt?
10:38<rtypo:#openttd>no
10:39<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>well I would ask the admin
10:39<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>at least then you will know
10:39<rtypo:#openttd>also, is it possible for someone to join my passworded comany by using hacks ?
10:39<rtypo:#openttd>it happened once :(
10:40<rtypo:#openttd>that scumbag messed my whole game
10:40<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>it's possible there's a security hole
10:40<@Rubidium:#openttd>if bruteforcing your password is a hack, then yes
10:40<rtypo:#openttd>i don't think it went that far
10:40<rtypo:#openttd>to use bruteforce
10:40<rtypo:#openttd>but maybe a security hole ?
10:41<rtypo:#openttd>it's possible, yes...
10:41<rtypo:#openttd>maybe it got fixed, it happened a couple months ago
10:41<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd><Zuu> Hmm, wonders if it is possible to make a regex that check for balanced paranteses. <- it is provable that this is not possible
10:41<Zuu:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Okay
10:42<Progman:#openttd>Zuu: but pcre got a recursive pattern which "may" solve it
10:42<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you can only check a bounded number of parens with finite state automatons
10:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i.e. you need to specify a maximum depth
10:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>any expression with higher depth will get incorrect results
10:43<ConditionalZenith:#openttd>rtypo: there isn't much point looking into it unless we are sure it wasn't the admin and that it still exists in the nightlies
10:43<rtypo:#openttd>i asked, but got no response
10:44<rtypo:#openttd>eh, i hope it doesn't happen again
10:44<rtypo:#openttd>but thanks for the help
10:44<rtypo:#openttd>in the end,ii think it was the admin
10:45<Zuu:#openttd>Progman: Ok, centanly not worth it to dig it up. Given my rusty overall knowledge of regex. :)
10:47<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Zuu: for future reference, the language of correct parens is context-free and needs a push down automaton
10:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>A -> (A)
10:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>A -> eps
10:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>A -> (A)A
10:49<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>or A -> AA
10:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you can also normalise the grammar, it should then look like this
10:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>A -> AA
10:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>A -> BC
10:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>B -> (
10:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>C -> )
10:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm, there's something missing
10:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>A -> BD
10:51<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>D -> AC
10:51<Zuu:#openttd>hhmm, I don't follow you. But as said basic regexs is as far as I go usually.
10:52<Zuu:#openttd>And you don't need to make me understand, just so you know. :-)
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10:53<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15136 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15126): (file) name could occasionally be wider than the download window causing glitches.
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11:14<@petern:#openttd>pom te pom
11:20<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r15137 /trunk/src/saveload/ (afterload.cpp oldloader.cpp signs_sl.cpp): -Fix (r11822)(r14340): signs with sign 'Sign' were lost when converting from TTD savegames
11:26-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.132.255] has joined #openttd
11:26*Prof_Frink:#openttd watches wrightais going through the painful process of upgrading aircraft
11:27<@petern:#openttd>squirrelgrf
11:27<@petern:#openttd>"lol"
11:27<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15138 /trunk/src/terraform_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2542]: tile error location not reset when leveling land causing a tile to be highlighted when there was nothing to flatten.
11:27<Rexxars:#openttd>kudos on BaNaNaS, excellent idea :-)
11:27<@petern:#openttd>swiss town names are really popular, for some reason...
11:27<Aali:#openttd>which basecost is town actions based on?
11:27<Ammler:#openttd>petern: lol
11:28<Prof_Frink:#openttd>They don't actually upgrade them, merely replacing them with Dinger 200s when they crash
11:28<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Which is fairly frequently
11:28<Aali:#openttd>bribe is suddenly going to cost me 400mil, I'm not sure I want that :P
11:28<Ammler:#openttd>also my test grf for the lumber mill patch is popular ;-)
11:28<frosch123:#openttd>Aali: build industry :/
11:29<@petern:#openttd>Rubidium, when do we get the ability to automatically install a base graphics set?
11:29<Aali:#openttd>okay, that makes no sense, but atleast explains why it happened :P
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11:29<@petern:#openttd>hmm, for a gnome user, kde 3.5 is not very nice
11:30<Yexo:#openttd>petern: swiss town names was one of the first newgrf available, like bigger depots. I guess most users just download everything available
11:31<@Rubidium:#openttd>petern: install when?
11:32<@Rubidium:#openttd>furthermore the packaging of swiss town names got messed up making it not show up as downloaded
11:32<Ammler:#openttd>I am not allowed to upload french cities, yet, only coded it, need to wait for "multi author" support
11:32<@petern:#openttd>Rubidium, when none is available, heh
11:33<@petern:#openttd>actually there's no sample.cat replacement yet
11:33<@Rubidium:#openttd>petern: you like your applications to just magically connect and download stuff?
11:33<@petern:#openttd>so that won't work
11:33<@petern:#openttd>er, well
11:33<Ammler:#openttd>empty file works now, afaik.
11:33<@petern:#openttd>debian installer does
11:33<@petern:#openttd>windows update does
11:35<@Rubidium:#openttd>anyhow, I'm thinking of making it possible to download the opengfx pack when installing the game (for the Windows installer)
11:35<@Rubidium:#openttd>for debian the package should just depend on something that provides graphics for openttd and that should then select opengfx
11:36<@Rubidium:#openttd>and for the other platforms I've got no idea how to make it an optional thing to download opengfx during the install
11:37<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Rubidium: Get your debian packager to look at the quake2-data package and make something similar
11:38<@Rubidium:#openttd>Prof_Frink: you mean like http://rbijker.net/openttd/debian/ -ish?
11:38*Prof_Frink:#openttd has a look
11:39<@Rubidium:#openttd>making the packages isn't the really hard part; setting up a sane repository is
11:40-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@54.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
11:41<Terkhen:#openttd>hello
11:41<Ammler:#openttd>[17:32] <Rubidium> furthermore the packaging of swiss town names got messed up making it not show up as downloaded <-- did I upload it wrong?
11:41<Ammler:#openttd>I tried first the zip, then 7z and at last tar.bz2
11:41<@Rubidium:#openttd>Ammler: I don't think so
11:42<@Rubidium:#openttd>.zip and .tar.bz2 should work
11:42<@Rubidium:#openttd>but apparantly fail
11:42<Ammler:#openttd>zip didn't yesterday night
11:42<@Rubidium:#openttd>a plain .tar file (without compression) should also work
11:42<Ammler:#openttd>well, it might be because it was a 7z-zip
11:43<Ammler:#openttd>I fear, I can't reupload it again
11:43<Ammler:#openttd>would need to make a version step with other md5sum
11:44<@Rubidium:#openttd>I could corrupt the md5 sum ;)
11:44<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Rubidium: I'm not sure, but with quake2-data it asks for the CD or downloads the demo and uses the files from that
11:44<Ammler:#openttd>also a downgrade link would be nice
11:45<Ammler:#openttd>if you upload a buggy version
11:45<@Rubidium:#openttd>Ammler: try uploading now
11:45<Ammler:#openttd>still as tar.bz2?
11:45<@Rubidium:#openttd>no as simple .tar
11:45<Prof_Frink:#openttd>So in this case, it would ask for the CD (or installed dir) or download opengfx
11:49<Ammler:#openttd>Rubidium: still broken
11:50<@Rubidium:#openttd>wtf... /me slaps TrueBrain
11:50<Ammler:#openttd>I see the issue
11:50<@Rubidium:#openttd>even as tar it fails...
11:51<Ammler:#openttd>it does unpack well
11:51<Ammler:#openttd>but then the grf will be renamed to the packname
11:51<@Rubidium:#openttd>it should (as in how it is planned) just package the grf and not the tar
11:51<Ammler:#openttd>i renamed the tar _in_ the pack to *.grf and it works
11:52<@Rubidium:#openttd>odd...
11:52<@Rubidium:#openttd>so the tar in the tar is actually the grf
11:52<De_Ghosty:#openttd>!r 1
11:53<Ammler:#openttd>Rubidium: yep.
11:53<De_Ghosty:#openttd>!svn 1
11:53<De_Ghosty:#openttd>what was that command
11:53<@Rubidium:#openttd>http://vcs.openttd.org
11:53<De_Ghosty:#openttd>that check what the update was about
11:54<Yexo:#openttd>De_Ghosty: @commit revision
11:54<De_Ghosty:#openttd>@commit 1
11:54<@DorpsGek:#openttd>De_Ghosty: Commit by truelight :: r1 / (202 files in 13 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
11:54<@DorpsGek:#openttd>De_Ghosty: Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
11:54<De_Ghosty:#openttd>kk thx
11:54<@petern:#openttd>liboobs :o
11:54<Ammler:#openttd>Rubidium: or a function to change the active newgrf
11:55<Ammler:#openttd>my LumberMill grf is now 1.1 but still 1.0 available
11:55<Ammler:#openttd>because I uploaded 1.0 after 1.1
11:56<@Rubidium:#openttd>well... you should update them in that order then ;)
11:56<Ammler:#openttd>the idea was to test, if it is possible to make a save game safe upload later.
11:57<Ammler:#openttd>i.e. most authors will only upload the newest grfs like ISR 0.8
11:57<Ammler:#openttd>but then I would like to bugger him until he also upload the old versions.
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11:58<@petern:#openttd>bugger him? :o
11:58<@Rubidium:#openttd>Ammler: talk to TB about adding that ;)
11:59<Ammler:#openttd>petern: might be wrong word :-)
11:59<@Rubidium:#openttd>he meant "bully him into doing it" ;)
12:02<Ammler:#openttd>a mass importer for the whole coop grf pack would be nice too ;-)
12:03<@Rubidium:#openttd>you're not the author of those grfs, are you?
12:03<Ammler:#openttd>yeah, I know
12:04<Ammler:#openttd>but we would be allowed to
12:04<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15139 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_airport.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: a wrong tile got returned for hangar tiles when the station sign isn't over st->airport_tile.
12:04<Ammler:#openttd>pm asked the authors if they would give permission for autodownload
12:06<Ammler:#openttd>we would need to remove around 10% but most would be there.
12:06<@petern:#openttd>"bug him" (to pester) is quite different from "bugger him" (have anal sex with)
12:07<Ammler:#openttd>hmm, that would be quite a high price for
12:10-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aejj118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
12:16<@petern:#openttd>ahh, that's better
12:16<@petern:#openttd>kde didn't support window resizing, gnome does
12:16<@petern:#openttd>so i can now get my fix of linux inside virtualbox
12:24-!-keiya [~kyevan@pool-71-98-6-23.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: keiya]
12:24<Ammler:#openttd>Rubidium: thanks :-)
12:29-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-118-49.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
12:29<Sacro:#openttd>http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/65864/1232288785/mourningmorph.jpg
12:32<@petern:#openttd>quite
12:33<Ammler:#openttd>Rubidium: who did upload the 2cc?
12:33<Ammler:#openttd>looks like it wasn't djnekkid
12:34<Ammler:#openttd>(older version then in our pack)
12:35-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
12:36<Ammler:#openttd>first illegal upload ;-)
12:41<@Rubidium:#openttd>Ammler: someone with DJNekkid as nick uploaded
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12:41<@Rubidium:#openttd>+2cc
12:41<Ammler:#openttd>hmm
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12:42<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>is the 2cc set GPL?
12:42<Ammler:#openttd>something CC
12:42<Yexo:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: that doesn't matter, as bananas states quite obvious you can only upload something you own (you can't claim that even if it's gpl)
12:42<Ammler:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: the rules of BaNaNaS don't allow uploading GPL content if you are not the owner
12:43<Ammler:#openttd>or did I get it wrong?
12:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but who _IS_ the "owner" of a GPL project?
12:43<Sacro:#openttd>you still retain ownership of your input
12:44<Ammler:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: "they" are wokring on a multi-user thing...
12:44<Sacro:#openttd>the issue comes with public domain
12:44<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it's a concept that contradicts the spirit of the GPL
12:44<@Rubidium:#openttd>don't mix words... it's author not owner
12:44<Sacro:#openttd>ARGH MY GOD
12:44<Sacro:#openttd>THE CAPITALISATION, MY EYES DX
12:44<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>author... fine... then i can upload a GPL project as soon as i have made modification to it?
12:45<Ammler:#openttd>"You will only upload content of which you are the original author."
12:45<Sacro:#openttd>also, s/, which services/that serves/ please god
12:45-!-ConditionalZenith [~blah@60-242-48-182.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:45<Ammler:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: so, you can't
12:46<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>this is absurd
12:46*Sacro:#openttd makes a request that no more foreigners write english pages
12:46<SpComb:#openttd>author seems to imply copyright
12:46<Sacro:#openttd>SpComb: author implies creator
12:46<SpComb:#openttd>and who owns the copyright to something is independant of the GPL license
12:46<Sacro:#openttd>owner would imply copyright
12:47<Sacro:#openttd>or maybe :\
12:47<+glx:#openttd>GPL doesn't imply no copyright
12:47<Sacro:#openttd>glx: nope
12:47<Sacro:#openttd>what about PD graphics?
12:47<Sacro:#openttd>they have no owner
12:47<+glx:#openttd>PD is US only IIRC
12:47<Yexo:#openttd>Sacro: PD doesn't exist in all countries
12:48<Sacro:#openttd>glx: UK has PD too afaik
12:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i didn't claim that GPL implys no copyright, but if i adopt a (possibly abandoned) GPL project, or make a fork, why would you exclude me from bananas?
12:48-!-Splex [~splex@60-248-164-67.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #openttd
12:48<Sacro:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: you could technically only upload that which you have created
12:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>where i have all legal right to distribute the project otherwise
12:49<SpComb:#openttd>uploading a GPL project to bananas wouldn't violate the license, but it would violate banana's terms as pasted above by Ammler
12:49<Ammler:#openttd>because you could annoy the original author, if he appears again :-)
12:49<SpComb:#openttd>since the GPL gives you the right to distribute it
12:49<Sacro:#openttd>Ammler: who cares? he released it under GPL
12:49<Sacro:#openttd>he can STFU as far as that goes
12:49<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>SpComb: yes, i know that, hence why i oppose to the bananas' terms
12:50<+glx:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: this term is probably their to make grf authors happy :)
12:50<SpComb:#openttd>I gather the ultimate intention of bananas is to give the graphics artists control over how their graphics are used
12:50<Ammler:#openttd>is the coder of a set a original author?
12:51-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
12:51<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>there are other caveats: if a grf is a team project, no single member of the team is allowed to upload it to bananas
12:51<SpComb:#openttd>a set can have multiple auathors
12:52<Sacro:#openttd>SpComb: but none can upload it
12:52<Yexo:#openttd><Ammler> is the coder of a set a original author? <- I'd say one of the original authors.
12:52<Sacro:#openttd>none of us is as powerful as all of us
12:52<SpComb:#openttd>where are those terms listed?
12:53<SpComb:#openttd>do you need to login to see them?
12:53<Ammler:#openttd>http://www.openttd.org/en/bananas/manager/signup/
12:53<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Ammler: by german copyright, "author" is any participator that made a sufficiently creative contribution
12:53<Ammler:#openttd>you might need to register to view it
12:53<+glx:#openttd>bananas is still wip
12:53<+glx:#openttd>it works but will be be improved
12:53<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that is exactly why i want to point out flaws ;)
12:53<Ammler:#openttd>openttd is still wip :-)
12:53<Sacro:#openttd>errm
12:53<Sacro:#openttd>AFACT that policy is unenforcable
12:54<Sacro:#openttd>Yep
12:54<Sacro:#openttd>nowhere do you agree to it
12:54<+glx:#openttd>the main goal was the AIs
12:54<Sacro:#openttd>When you sign up you don't agree to the policy
12:54<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Ammler: by that definition, "coder" is an author, unless his "work" merely consisted of copy-pasting an existing example
12:54<+glx:#openttd>other stuff is a bonus
12:54<Sacro:#openttd>and there is no "By using this site you agree to:"
12:54<Ammler:#openttd>Sacro: you can register without agree
12:54<Sionide:#openttd>what's bananas? :s
12:54<Sacro:#openttd>so it can probably be ignored
12:54<Sacro:#openttd>Ammler: yep, thus privacy policy is quite likly unenforcable anyway
12:54<Ammler:#openttd>agreement is only needed if you like to upload
12:55<Sacro:#openttd>hmm, where is that states?
12:55<Ammler:#openttd>that page comes after reg.
12:55<Sacro:#openttd>heh, 404
12:55<Sacro:#openttd>sign up, login, 404
12:55<Ammler:#openttd>(you might need to sign up)
12:55<Sacro:#openttd>have done
12:56<Ammler:#openttd>then try again the link
12:56<Sacro:#openttd>http://www.openttd.org/en/accounts/profile/ 404
12:56<Ammler:#openttd>that page isn't done
12:56*Rubidium:#openttd reslaps TrueBrain about that issue
12:56<SpComb:#openttd>Sacro: go back to manager
12:56<Sacro:#openttd>hm, that might be unenforcable too
12:56<Sacro:#openttd>because of the wording
12:56<Sacro:#openttd>you have to accept the form to view it
12:57<SpComb:#openttd>I'm not sure the "enforcement" really matters, it's not like OpenTTD's going to sue you if you voilate those
12:57<Sacro:#openttd>ARG
12:57<SpComb:#openttd>it's more a question of intentions and how those are worded
12:57<Sacro:#openttd>"ITS UNIQUE IDENTIFIER" NO DAMNED APOSTROPHE
12:58*Sacro:#openttd will correct that page and e-mail it to the proper authorities
12:58<SpComb:#openttd>a wiki!
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13:03<Ammler:#openttd>[18:54] <glx> other stuff is a bonus <-- but a lot complicater ;-)
13:05<Ammler:#openttd>will you really allow other license then GPL for ais?
13:05<Yexo:#openttd>Ammler: why not?
13:05<SpComb:#openttd>whatever the license is it needs to give OpenTTD the right to redistribute it
13:06<Ammler:#openttd>SpComb, didn't find a "official" license which doesn't
13:06<Ammler:#openttd>Yexo: because noai is new
13:07<Ammler:#openttd>it shouldn't be handled that complicated like newgrfs
13:11<Wolf01:#openttd>I have a symple question about the content download: if I handle the grf folder with SVN to keep it in sync with my 3 computers and since I change names for the files to keep all the versions, what does happen if I download the updated content?
13:12<George:#openttd>Question about online content feature. Why when I press to dowload new WrightAI, it reports 21K done, but when I close OTTD and start it again, it loses the previous result and I have to download AI again. Why isn't it stored?
13:12<@Rubidium:#openttd>Wolf01: everything that gets downloaded gets an unique name; it won't remove stuff
13:13<@Rubidium:#openttd>George: most likely because it can't find the new wrightai, although that's strange
13:13<@Rubidium:#openttd>did you compile OpenTTD yourself?
13:13<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd><SpComb> whatever the license is it needs to give OpenTTD the right to redistribute it <- why would it? at least in german copyright, temporary distribution for technical reasons can be done without license (and without payment)
13:13<Wolf01:#openttd>Rubidium, but the updated grf will be put in the same folder of the current grf?
13:14<@Rubidium:#openttd>nope, all in $personal_dir/content_download/[ai|data]/
13:14<George:#openttd>Rubidium: Me??? Never :D
13:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that mainly means you can copy a program from a storage medium to ram, in order to execute it
13:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but it must then again be removed from the ram
13:14<George:#openttd>Rubidium: but OTTD reports 21 Kb downloaded
13:15<@Rubidium:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause/SpComb: the idea is that people grant us the rights to distribute their NewGRF to our clients, so the license doesn't really matter
13:15<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and you are not allowed to access that ram for means other than executing
13:15<@Rubidium:#openttd>George: it doesn't say that it completed?
13:16<George:#openttd>it says "dounload complete" Ok
13:16<George:#openttd>DOWNLOAD
13:16<George:#openttd>100%
13:16<George:#openttd>need a screenshot?
13:16<@Rubidium:#openttd>got no idea what's wrong in that case
13:17<@Rubidium:#openttd>George: a screenshot doesn't tell me anything
13:17<George:#openttd>And where should it save the downloaded content?
13:17<@Rubidium:#openttd>you know where openttd.cfg is?
13:18<@Rubidium:#openttd>in that directory should be a content_download directory which has an ai directory and in there the tar of wrightai should be
13:19<Ammler:#openttd>Rubidium: will there ever be a webdownload?
13:19<George:#openttd>Ah, it is in my personal folder, while AI should be in OTTD folder. So it does not unpack it to required place?
13:20<@Rubidium:#openttd>Ammler: don't know
13:20<@Rubidium:#openttd>George: AIs can also be in your personal folder
13:20<Ammler:#openttd>would be nice, else you have to maintain multiple localtions
13:21<George:#openttd>and what should happen if they are in both the folders?
13:22<@Rubidium:#openttd>it should be searching both and find them in both... unless...
13:23<@Rubidium:#openttd>the AI searching algorithm finds all, but only uses one and (internally) discards the others
13:24<@Rubidium:#openttd>so you've got two AIs with the same version number and apparantly it chooses the one that didn't get downloaded via the content system
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13:25<@Rubidium:#openttd>so to solve your "problem" for now you have to remove the old wrightai directory
13:25<George:#openttd>Rubidium: I've moved all the data into the game folder, so now I have only one folder. The problem remains
13:26<Wolf01:#openttd>George, do you think is it possible to add a little description of the parameters for ECS on the grf description? I always forget about them each time I update and I have to set them all again
13:26<George:#openttd>Wolf01: feel free to make it
13:26<Ammler:#openttd>I guess, he meant to Action8
13:27<Wolf01:#openttd>that's it, thank you Ammler
13:27<George:#openttd>Wolf01: suggest a text. The text from the wiki is too big for this window
13:28<@Rubidium:#openttd>George: as I said you should remove the wrightai directory/install you've got
13:28<@Rubidium:#openttd>or wait till a new wrightai (with higher version number) gets distributed
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13:30<George:#openttd>Rubidium: Should I manally install all the downloaded files?
13:30<@Rubidium:#openttd>George: no
13:30<George:#openttd>Rubidium: and how should I say OTTD to do it?
13:30<@Rubidium:#openttd>it's a conflict of TWO versions of the AI with the SAME version number that causes the problem
13:31<@Rubidium:#openttd>the solution is: a) removing the "wrong" AI, b) wait till a new AI gets distributed with the right version number
13:32<Zuu:#openttd>c) remove the "wrong" and the "right" AI and then install the right from the content server
13:32<@Rubidium:#openttd>that's effectively a
13:32<Zuu:#openttd>If you are sure which is the wrong and right version.
13:32<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Rubidium: Yes, but makes sure you remove the right wrong AI.
13:33<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Or indeed, the right wrong wrightAI.
13:33<+glx:#openttd>would be nice to have a "global" content_download and "local" openttd.cfg
13:33<+glx:#openttd>useful for multiple install
13:33<Zuu:#openttd>Though it is quite unlikely the right wrong wrightAI is in the content_download directory.
13:34<Zuu:#openttd>eh, the wrong wright AI..
13:34<Prof_Frink:#openttd>glx: That's what symlinks are for.
13:34<+glx:#openttd>tell that to windows :)
13:34<+glx:#openttd>(I know it's possible)
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13:35<@Rubidium:#openttd>glx: implement it ;)
13:36<Wolf01:#openttd>oh, another thing, I don't know if it's a bug of OTTD or a behavior of you grfs: if I set 0 0 1 15 as parameters for basic vector, coal mines shouldn't close because I enabled both endless mines (harvest=0) and don't close mines until exhausted, but I found that coal mines are harvested and can reach 0 but the resources will be added again randomly and manually placed mines will close randomly
13:36<+glx:#openttd>Rubidium: as I understand it (reading the diff), you based it on "save" code
13:36<George:#openttd>Wolf01: basick vector has only 2!!!! parameters
13:37<Wolf01:#openttd>uhm yes, that was the town vector maybe
13:37<Wolf01:#openttd>in fact basic has 0 15
13:37<George:#openttd>Wolf01: read the wiki
13:38<George:#openttd>Rubidium: a) helped
13:38<Wolf01:#openttd>George, I always set the parameters using the wiki :P (that's why I asked for adding them to the grf description)
13:40<George:#openttd>Then you can easily suggest a text for action 8 :D
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13:41<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15140 /trunk/ (Makefile.bundle.in bin/ai/library/): -Cleanup (r15128): remove AI installation/bundling as we don't distribute AIs via the bundles anymore
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13:42<George:#openttd>Rubidium: Yexo and what about a possibility to select AIs to play with in advanced settings menu?
13:43<Yexo:#openttd>George: working on it :)
13:43<Yexo:#openttd>awaiting review by Rubidium / glx now
13:43<George:#openttd>Yexo: would it allow sorting AIs?
13:43<George:#openttd>I mean what AI starts first
13:43<Yexo:#openttd>George: yes
13:44<Yexo:#openttd>it allows you to chose one AI per company slot
13:44<George:#openttd>Yexo: Good!
13:44<Yexo:#openttd>and they are started in the order you configure them
13:44<+glx:#openttd>George: it will allow easy management of [ai_players] section
13:44<@petern:#openttd>if people are going to upload random stuff do we need to moderate it?
13:44<George:#openttd>petern: imho yes
13:46<Wolf01:#openttd>and what about the closure of mines question?
13:46<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: translators * r15141 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-18 18:46:25
13:46<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: czech - 51 fixed by Hadez (51)
13:46<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: dutch - 30 fixed by Excel20 (30)
13:46<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: finnish - 51 fixed by jpx_ (51)
13:46<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: french - 51 fixed by glx (51)
13:46<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: hebrew - 50 fixed by tarkil (50)
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13:52<Ammler:#openttd>[19:33] <glx> would be nice to have a "global" content_download and "local" openttd.cfg <-- or something like a local overwrite function, so you can keep some settings global
13:53<+glx:#openttd>Ammler: hard to implement I think
13:54<Ammler:#openttd>does openttd load the cfg multiple times?
13:54<@petern:#openttd>no
13:54<Ammler:#openttd>hmm, well, hard to know, where to write changes
13:54<George:#openttd>Wolf01: What?
13:55<Wolf01:#openttd>why my mines close
13:55<George:#openttd>provide a savegame before the mine is closed
13:57<Wolf01:#openttd>I should have one
14:00*Wolf01:#openttd http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/coalmine_should_close_soon.sav
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14:01<Wolf01:#openttd>TTRSv3 + all ECS + DB set + eGRVTS + UKRS + ISRv8 and other stations grfs :P
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14:08<George:#openttd>ECS Basic vector has paramer 15, not 0 15. And ECS should be loaded FIRST, before any GRF that uses cargoes, like stations, vehicles, houses!
14:10<George:#openttd>And how did you made wrightAI to use RVs?
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14:11<Wolf01:#openttd>that was an old game, and when I loaded it with the latest trunk the AI become wrightAI
14:12<George:#openttd>Rubidium: When I press check online content in newgrf window, OTTD crashes
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14:13<@Rubidium:#openttd>George: can't reproduce it myself
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14:14<Zuu:#openttd>Also, if Woulf01 would have used say Convoy and uploaded the save, but I don't have Convoy, then a random AI will be picked. As of how it works now. But one of the goals with bananas was to address this issue if I recall correctly. But as we know bananas is WIP.
14:15<Zuu:#openttd>Wolf01*
14:15<George:#openttd>Rubidium: it happens only when I load the savegame by Wolf01, it reports, that some GRFs are missing, and then I press it in newgrf window
14:15<George:#openttd>in the main window it works well here too
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14:22<George:#openttd>Rubidium: I try to download new tram tracks with online content feature, and it reports 333Kb downloaded, but in content folder I find a tar of 580Kb!
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14:23<@petern:#openttd>gzipped?
14:23<Wolf01:#openttd>your computer lies
14:23<George:#openttd>petern: Who?
14:23<@petern:#openttd>333KB downloaded
14:23<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15142 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15126): missing NewGRFs cause a crash when getting the content list.
14:23<@petern:#openttd>yeah
14:24<@petern:#openttd>the download is compressed
14:24<@Rubidium:#openttd>George: it downloads 333 KiB compressed and then uncompresses it
14:24<@petern:#openttd>openttd can't read compressed files yet
14:24<George:#openttd>confusing :S
14:24<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: you should be able to upload your swiss-grf file thingy correctly now
14:25<@petern:#openttd>so is the "2cc Trainset" uploaded by a random person?
14:25<Wolf01:#openttd>.tar is not compressed
14:25<George:#openttd>and a grf file inside has a strange name Desctop.tar
14:25<Ammler:#openttd>petern: rubidum said djnekkid :-)
14:25<yorick:#openttd>that doesn't mean it has to be dj nekkid
14:25<@petern:#openttd>Desktop.tar
14:25<@petern:#openttd>:o
14:26<Ammler:#openttd>but somehow strange as he made a bugfix release at 29. dec
14:26<George:#openttd>petern: yes
14:26<yorick:#openttd>ask him then
14:27<@petern:#openttd>so that won't work
14:28<Ammler:#openttd>TrueBrain: shall I "fake" a new version
14:28<Ammler:#openttd>so the people get a update
14:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>we removed your current grfs
14:28<Ammler:#openttd>I meant those who already downloaded it
14:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>hmm .. updates are checked against uniqueid/uniquemd5, not Rubidium?
14:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: those who already downloaded them can't load them
14:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>so 'updating' won't happen at all I guess :p
14:29<@Rubidium:#openttd>TrueBrain: I changed the md5sum of Ammler's wrong ones to something invalid
14:29<Ammler:#openttd>well, I meant with "fake" a new version also change md5sum
14:29<@petern:#openttd>dbg: [misc] The file '/home/petern/.openttd/content_download/data/New_Tram_Tracks.0.4.1/Desktop.tar' isn't a valid tar-file
14:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>Rubidium: that I noticed ;)
14:29<@petern:#openttd>heh
14:30<Ammler:#openttd>TrueBrain: can I use now bz2 again?
14:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>removed New_Tram_Tracks from content server ;)
14:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: you always could :)
14:30<Ammler:#openttd>:P
14:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>just the in-tar file had the wrong extension
14:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>(.tar or .tar.bz2 or .tar.gz or .zip (which ever format you uploaded in)), instead of grf ;)
14:31<@petern:#openttd>nice little bug
14:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>bugs happen
14:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>there are 19 ways to upload a file to the system ... I could only test so many ;)
14:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>who uploaded newtramtracks?
14:31<@petern:#openttd>hmm, no nightly yet ;(
14:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>(/me == lazy :p)
14:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: 2 more minutes
14:32<@petern:#openttd>you're the one with database access
14:32<George:#openttd>petern: About uploading. How can I fix the license entry if selected it wrong? As you can see, ECS Chemical vector has by acident CC-SA while all other files are CC-ND
14:32<@Rubidium:#openttd>TrueBrain: foobar?
14:32<@petern:#openttd>George: absolutely no idea
14:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>Rubidium: to get a drink? Good idea :)
14:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>(foobar is the name of the cafe inside our IT department ;))
14:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>George: upload a new one, and select the right license :)
14:33<@petern:#openttd>so users can't change details in their uploads? :o
14:33<George:#openttd>TrueBrain: do you mean update the file with the same file?
14:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: you can change most details
14:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>just the LICENSE file is included in the tar
14:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>so .. not possible to change after upload :)
14:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>(people could already hav edownloaded them)
14:34<@petern:#openttd>hm
14:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>selecting the wrong license is just a bit stupid ;) You should always double check :) Mwhahaha :)
14:34<@petern:#openttd>how do custom licenses work?
14:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>George: which file?
14:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: you supply a license in the tar
14:34<George:#openttd>TrueBrain: ECS Chemical vector II
14:34<@Rubidium:#openttd>people have to supply a license file in their archive they upload
14:34<@petern:#openttd>ahh
14:34<@petern:#openttd>nice
14:35<George:#openttd>Rubidium: I could not upload rar archive, so I had to upload GRF itself
14:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>George: I removed it from the DB, you are free to reupload it
14:35<Ammler:#openttd>(content GUI has no newline support)
14:35<@petern:#openttd>rar?
14:35<Ammler:#openttd>just question marks are there
14:35<@petern:#openttd>who suggested rar?
14:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>rar support .. now that is a nice one :)
14:35<@Rubidium:#openttd>Ammler: wut?
14:35<George:#openttd>petern: rar. I use rar
14:35<@petern:#openttd>Ammler, svn up
14:36<Zuu:#openttd>Ammler: That was fixed earlier today I think.
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14:37<Zuu:#openttd>r15135 | rubidium
14:37<Zuu:#openttd>-Fix/Change: allow str_validate (part of receiving strings from the network) to pass newlines instead of replacing them with question marks, but only when asked to do so.
14:37<Ammler:#openttd>he, just uploaded and already a download :-)
14:37<@petern:#openttd>TrueBrain, your two minutes are well over
14:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: the content service really does work ;)
14:37<@Rubidium:#openttd>20:35 <@DorpsGek> CompileFarm: nightly (r15141) completed.
14:38<@Rubidium:#openttd>which is two minutes ago
14:38<TrueBrain:#openttd>:)
14:38<TrueBrain:#openttd>I do know my baby ;)
14:38<@petern:#openttd>which was a minute after TrueBrain gave me two ;)
14:39<@petern:#openttd>how long does it take to transfer to the site then?
14:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: depends on how you look at your clock :)
14:39<@petern:#openttd>:(
14:39<@petern:#openttd>wait a second
14:39<@Rubidium:#openttd>the frontpage is cached and that's refreshed every 5 minutes
14:39<@petern:#openttd>why do i care :/
14:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: when ever DorpsGek tells about it in #openttd.notice .. then the cache update :)
14:39<George:#openttd>and thy do online content does not suggest to upload a new version of OTTD?
14:39*TrueBrain:#openttd considers removing the cache :p
14:40<Ammler:#openttd>TrueBrain: how sure are you, that it works now?
14:40<@petern:#openttd>it's there now :D
14:40<Ammler:#openttd>or how much would you bet ;-)
14:41<Ammler:#openttd>I still have tar.bz2 in my tar
14:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: how did you manage to do that ......
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14:41<Ammler:#openttd>oh
14:41<Ammler:#openttd>no
14:42<Ammler:#openttd>it still works with rename to *.grf
14:42<@petern:#openttd>you shouldn't need to rename it after downloading...
14:42<@petern:#openttd>gah
14:42<Ammler:#openttd>indeed :-)
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14:43<@petern:#openttd>can we please change the default networking debug level for dedicated servers?
14:43<Ammler:#openttd>I am wondering, nobody else used the pack upload mode.
14:43<Ammler:#openttd>petern: use Autopilot
14:43<George:#openttd>Could license be displayed here, please? http://www.openttd.org/en/bananas/manager/
14:45<Ammler:#openttd>and TrueBrain, html should also be allowed as readme extension
14:45<Ammler:#openttd>at least MB has them
14:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: I disagree with you on that :)
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14:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>.txt and .pdf should be fine
14:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>.html is a VERY SUCKY format for licenses ...
14:45<Ammler:#openttd>for readme
14:46<Ammler:#openttd>hmm
14:48<@petern:#openttd>.txt is best
14:48<@petern:#openttd>then there is the possibility that it may be shown in openttd at some point
14:48<George:#openttd>I've downloaded new tram tracks 0.4.1 with online content feature, but can't add to newgrfs list, because OTTD does not see such GRF
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14:48<TrueBrain:#openttd>I agree with you petern :)
14:49<Ammler:#openttd>that is indeed a good argument to exclude pdf, too.
14:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>George: new tram tracks 0.4.1 experiences same error as Ammler :)
14:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>it is removed from the content service
14:49<@petern:#openttd>George, pay attention, it has been removed.
14:49<@petern:#openttd>BaNaNaS needs a revokation system :/
14:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: hehe :)
14:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>massive client removal when required ;)
14:50<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: do you have a http address with the packag eyou try to upload?
14:50<Ammler:#openttd>well, I can
14:50<@petern:#openttd>hmm, signed content? heh
14:50<George:#openttd>But what to dow with downloaded file? to delete it and use old 0.4? Fortunately I have a back up
14:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>George: give us a sec to fix things :)
14:51<George:#openttd>Ok :)
14:52<Ammler:#openttd>TrueBrain: https://ammler.ch/openttd/
14:52<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Heh this AI has a 13 year old Dinger 200. What do you think its next oldest plane is?
14:54*Zuu:#openttd is playing around with 'scrollto' command in the title screen. :-)
14:54<Zuu:#openttd>Enabling smooth scrolling makes it a bit easier to find interesting things. :)
14:54<Prof_Frink:#openttd>That's right, a 71 year old Vickers Viscount.
14:54<@petern:#openttd>oh you beat me to it :(
14:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: uploading on the test-site works perfectly
14:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>so I see no reason why the live would fuck up ...
14:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>can you try again please? :)
14:57<Ammler:#openttd>:-)
14:58<@petern:#openttd>damn, none of the grfs on my server are on bananas
14:59<TrueBrain:#openttd>btw, .rar support is added for uploading
15:00<Ammler:#openttd>hmm, if I have a grfcrawler entry
15:00<Ammler:#openttd>do I need to add the url?
15:00<Prof_Frink:#openttd>petern: Shout at the grf authors until they stick 'em on!
15:00<Ammler:#openttd>or will you create a link to the crawler anyway?
15:00<TrueBrain:#openttd>if you like
15:01<@orudge:#openttd>TrueBrain: we finally have the domain transfer codes :)
15:01<TrueBrain:#openttd>orudge: about time!!
15:03<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Teh upload codez?
15:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: now it is correct
15:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>and I didn't touch it :p
15:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>how cool is that!
15:05<Ammler:#openttd>TrueBrain: indeed
15:05<Ammler:#openttd>but it wasn't in the newgrf list
15:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: can you check if the cache problem of yesterday happens now?
15:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>nevermind, I see it right in my face :p
15:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>haha
15:07<Ammler:#openttd>TrueBrain: is it already possible to hide somehow a grf from some revs
15:07<Ammler:#openttd>or at all
15:07<Ammler:#openttd>just available with the specific md5sum
15:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>if only I knew what he was asking ..
15:08<Ammler:#openttd>I uploaded a grf and defined min version to nightly 99999
15:08<+glx:#openttd>that's stupid :)
15:08<Ammler:#openttd>but it is still available in the content list
15:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>I should prevent that abuse I guess ...
15:08<Ammler:#openttd>glx: how should I do that?
15:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>and why do you ask me that?
15:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>why would you ever want to do that
15:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>either upload a grf, or don't
15:08<@orudge:#openttd>TrueBrain: so, do you want the name servers left as liefdeis for now?
15:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>but uploading for some unreal revision ..
15:09<Ammler:#openttd>that grf is only useable for a patched release
15:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>orudge: you were going to take over the ns, not?
15:09<@petern:#openttd>at the moment :D
15:09<@orudge:#openttd>TrueBrain: I can do, yes
15:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>orudge: that was the request ;)
15:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: then don't upload it at all
15:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>rather useless and pointless
15:09<@orudge:#openttd>but there have been some new DNS entries since, so we'd best synchronise things ;)
15:09<+glx:#openttd>bananas is for stable and trunk (compatible) versions
15:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>orudge: please do :) And if possible, hav esomething for us to add entries ;)
15:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>orudge: dig! :p
15:10<@orudge:#openttd>quite
15:10<Ammler:#openttd>what is min version "custom" for then?
15:10<@petern:#openttd>won't show everything
15:10<@orudge:#openttd>I can likely sort something out for the entry thing
15:10<@petern:#openttd>unless you allowed zone transfers...
15:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>orudge: would be nice :)
15:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: openttd.org gives all details ;)
15:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>we have nothing to hide, really :)
15:12<Ammler:#openttd>well, currently it is nightly only anyway
15:12<@Rubidium:#openttd>Ammler: custom allows you to specifically enter the '_openttd_newgrf_version' style version number
15:12<Ammler:#openttd>but you will have that after it get stable state anyway
15:13<Ammler:#openttd>like ECS needs nightly
15:13<Ammler:#openttd>but it has also ECS which would work with 0.6.3
15:14<@Rubidium:#openttd>Ammler: you would get the last 'marked' working (for your version)
15:14<Ammler:#openttd>and how do I mark my grf?
15:14<@Rubidium:#openttd>i.e. the last with where your _openttd_newgrf_version falls between the min and max version number
15:16<George:#openttd>Ammler: What ECS version works in 0.6.3?
15:16<Ammler:#openttd>George: dunno, just a example :-)
15:16<@Rubidium:#openttd>George: alpha1-ish or so?
15:17<George:#openttd>Rubidium: I can't say alpha 1 WORK :S
15:17<Ammler:#openttd>I gess, until december
15:18<Ammler:#openttd>from beta5
15:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>django is failing on me ...
15:18<Ammler:#openttd>at least someone complained that the ECS of coop pack doesn't work anymore on his server
15:19<Ammler:#openttd>so I assume, it did earlier :-)
15:20<Ammler:#openttd>we weren't able to make a ECS game, yet.
15:21<Ammler:#openttd>so no need to backwards compatibilty for. ;-)
15:22<George:#openttd>AFAIR, I could not run ECS on 0.6.3. But may be I did not want to do it much.
15:23<Ammler:#openttd>We/I never play stable
15:24<Ammler:#openttd>too "unstable" :-)
15:24<@Rubidium:#openttd>lol
15:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: let me know if the cache problems of yesterday returns
15:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>the cache is now disabled ;) :p
15:25<@petern:#openttd>D:
15:25<@orudge:#openttd>TrueBrain: OK, it seems it'll take up to a few days to process, but should now go through OK
15:26<TrueBrain:#openttd>orudge: if the other side helps, it can be done within a few minutes :p
15:26<@orudge:#openttd>well, yes
15:26<@orudge:#openttd>they got an e-mail from godaddy
15:26<TrueBrain:#openttd>if not, a 5 day expire is in place yes :p
15:26<@orudge:#openttd>apparently it doesn't have an "instant approve" button though
15:26<@orudge:#openttd>if they want it to proceed, "do nothing"!
15:26<@orudge:#openttd>so we have to wait it seems
15:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>there is one, but hidden
15:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>but oh well :p
15:27<@orudge:#openttd>ah
15:27<@orudge:#openttd>never mind, anyway
15:27<@orudge:#openttd>the domains will then be registered until 2011
15:30<@orudge:#openttd>DNS should be up-to-date now
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15:41<SpComb:#openttd>who is Tord Viktor?
15:42<@orudge:#openttd>that'd be wiggo
15:42<@orudge:#openttd>ludde's brother, as I recall
15:42<SpComb:#openttd>heh
15:42<SpComb:#openttd>who is it being trasferred to?
15:42<@orudge:#openttd>myself
15:42<SpComb:#openttd>:o
15:43<SpComb:#openttd>I thought OpenTTD operated their own infrastructure these days
15:43<@orudge:#openttd>by and large, yes
15:43<@orudge:#openttd>but they don't have their own domain registrar
15:43*orudge:#openttd deals with OpenTTD's money-type stuff, so it's also convenient for him to own and renew the domain
15:43<@orudge:#openttd>and host the DNS now, too
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15:50<Aali:#openttd>who wrote the center company patch?
15:50<Ammler:#openttd>SmatZ: if you mean center_player
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15:58<Aali:#openttd>you're not supposed to say player anymore
15:58<Aali:#openttd>since r14421 :P
16:08<Ammler:#openttd>well, I trust SmatZ :P
16:09<Yexo:#openttd>center_player was (is?) from before r14421
16:09<Ammler:#openttd>well, there is one with >1500
16:09<Ammler:#openttd>0
16:10<Ammler:#openttd>it is really nice to watch a mp game with
16:10*Yexo:#openttd has still the r13210 patch around :o
16:10<Ammler:#openttd>specially coop, might not be fun for other servers :-)
16:11-!-grumbel [~grumbel@i577B8EE5.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:13<Sacro:#openttd>A bad workman blames his fools
16:14<Sacro:#openttd>*tools
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16:17<SmatZ:#openttd>Aali: yeah, it is not very recent patch... at least I recently changed string names :-P
16:20<Aali:#openttd>I've noticed some odd behaviour, sometimes it follows the wrong company or more than one company
16:20-!-SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-52-118.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #openttd
16:20<Ammler:#openttd>only coop tested ;-)
16:21<Aali:#openttd>don't really care if you fix it, it works 99% of the time, just thought you might want to know :P
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16:35<Ammler:#openttd>hmm, everything ok with 2cc :-)
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16:38<@petern:#openttd>fool
16:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: do you know why your 'grfid' fails over openttdw.grf?
16:41<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15143 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/ (contentserver/tcp.cpp shared/string.cpp shared/string_func.h): [MSU] -Fix: small memleak and some compile errors due to changes in trunk.
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16:48<@Rubidium:#openttd>TrueBrain: might be because it uses a GRF ID in a reserved range; "reserved for internal patch purposes" according to the NewGRF specs, but we do the same ;)
16:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>dunno
16:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>all I know it tells me the grfid is wrong :p
16:49<@petern:#openttd>yes
16:49<@petern:#openttd> 0 * 4,.. 00 00 00 00
16:50-!-el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd
16:50<@petern:#openttd>change "while (lines-- > 0) {" to "while (true) {"
16:50<el_en:#openttd>hello, kangaroos
16:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: you are sure that it then never loops for ever?
16:51<@petern:#openttd>could do, but then openttd would have the same problem
16:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>problem here is that it is a webserver
16:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>and that it would be a nasty way to kill it :p
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16:52<@petern:#openttd>ok
16:52<@petern:#openttd>while (_buffer < _file_buffer + _file_length) {
16:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>maybe we can make it a small project in /extra/grfid?
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16:53<TrueBrain:#openttd>k, that change seems to work
16:56<@petern:#openttd>i dunno, dodgy grfs :p
16:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>tnx petern :)
16:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>you just made foobar happy I guess
16:58<@petern:#openttd>he should fix his grf :p
16:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>OpenTTD? Yeah! :p
16:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>sucky person, broken grfs, pfff
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17:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>Ammler: any reason why you feel more special and created two accounts?
17:14<Wolf01:#openttd>'night
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17:14<el_en:#openttd>night
17:21<George:#openttd>Why the distance between RV parts on map and in vehicle window is different and haow to achive the same distance on map and in veh. window? http://george.zernebok.net/temp/-/dx.png
17:21-!-Guest796 is now known as planetmaker
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17:24<dihedral:#openttd>hello planetmaker
17:24<planetmaker:#openttd>hi dihedral :)
17:24<planetmaker:#openttd>how're you?
17:24<dihedral:#openttd>tired but very well
17:24<dihedral:#openttd>have had sum ap+ deving fun
17:24<dihedral:#openttd>and the fun continues
17:25<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
17:26<planetmaker:#openttd>I just came home from the WE and found bananas in my fruit basket. What a nice surprise! :)
17:26<Zuu:#openttd>planetmaker: At least you knew about it on beforehand :)
17:26<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
17:26<TrueBrain:#openttd>hmm .. banananas!!!!
17:27<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
17:27<planetmaker:#openttd>I heard they're good for the bones ;)
17:27<planetmaker:#openttd>They give strenght :)
17:28*TrueBrain:#openttd welcomes OpenGFX to BaNaNaS! :)
17:29<planetmaker:#openttd>he... :) Just downloading it :)
17:29<planetmaker:#openttd>via bananas :)
17:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>good ;)
17:31<Zuu:#openttd>The discreption of it has some wierd line breaks in-game, but else looks good.
17:31<Zuu:#openttd>(using nightly r15151)
17:31-!-Digitalfox [~Digitalof@bl7-179-60.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
17:31<Digitalfox:#openttd>Good night :)
17:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>night Digitalfox :p
17:32<Zuu:#openttd>My juice says "good morning"
17:32<George:#openttd>what var controls the distance between wagons on map and in depot for trains?
17:33<George:#openttd>TTD had 32 px on map and 28 px in depot, but I remember I read that they both can be set to 32 px. How?
17:33<Digitalfox:#openttd>In message Options -> Closing of Industries... Does it also apply to the player industries? Like if I turn it off, will I be informed that my industries will close?
17:34<Yexo:#openttd>my industries <- you cannot "own" any industries
17:34<@petern:#openttd>oh dear, opengfx has black blocks :/
17:34<@petern:#openttd>George: it's an action d writable variable, iirc
17:35<Digitalfox:#openttd>Yexo yeah, but you understand what I ask ;)
17:35<Digitalfox:#openttd>I'm referring to industries served by me the player :)
17:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>bah .. what to do when a java application has a lock on your alsa driver? :(
17:36<@petern:#openttd>kill it
17:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>no, I kind of need it at the moment :p
17:36<George:#openttd>petern: Ah, I see, var (9E). Thank you. Now, according to my question about gap betweer RV parts. Setting var (9E) should fix it?
17:36<Yexo:#openttd>Digitalfox: I'm not sure, but I think you won't get any close message at all
17:37<Yexo:#openttd>Yexo yeah, but you understand what I ask ;) <- at first I thought you were referring to industries build (fund) by you
17:37<Digitalfox:#openttd>Valid point Yexo...
17:38<Digitalfox:#openttd>Forgot about that point =0
17:44<George:#openttd>petern: changing var 9e did not help. Does it affect ARV?
17:45<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r15144 /trunk/src/ (fios.cpp fios.h openttd.cpp saveload/oldloader.cpp):
17:45<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Codechange: make sure we don't run out of bounds while determining old savegame name
17:45<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: Note this can't happen in current code
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17:50<@petern:#openttd>guess not then
17:50<@petern:#openttd>hm
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17:53<SmatZ:#openttd>yeah, I know it is broken :-/
17:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>FIX IT! :p
17:55<SmatZ:#openttd>already working on it ;)
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18:15<@petern:#openttd>uh
18:15<@petern:#openttd>why are we using seprintf there?
18:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>seprintf rules them all! :p
18:16<@petern:#openttd>and a lot of other places too, apparently
18:16<@petern:#openttd>strecpy() please
18:17<SmatZ:#openttd>well
18:17<SmatZ:#openttd>it's a big security problem now
18:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>what does the 'e' do?
18:17<@petern:#openttd>no idea
18:18<SmatZ:#openttd>(with savegame with %s in name...)
18:18<@petern:#openttd>presumably snprintf is too tricky :)
18:18<SmatZ:#openttd>but I have different patch now...
18:18<@petern:#openttd>SmatZ: exactly my point
18:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>SmatZ: lol ;)
18:18<SmatZ:#openttd>I was splitting the patch and did it wrongly :-P
18:18<@petern:#openttd>but printf for things like " ??"
18:18<@petern:#openttd>that does not need to be formatted...
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18:26<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r15145 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt saveload/oldloader.cpp):
18:26<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Fix: crash when one tried to load a TTO savegame
18:26<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Fix (r15144): it wasn't safe at all, but the code broken code isn't needed anymore
18:26<SmatZ:#openttd>.... ... @ typos ...
18:27<SmatZ:#openttd>oh why
18:27*TrueBrain:#openttd hugs SmatZ :)
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18:27<SmatZ:#openttd>thank you TrueBrain :)
18:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>you are very welcome :)
18:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>night all!
18:30<SmatZ:#openttd>good night
18:30<SmatZ:#openttd>:)
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18:34<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r15146 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader.cpp: -Fix: show savegame name even when opening it failed
18:35<el_en:#openttd>i want to build an aircraft like this, what button should i press? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:10tanker-N450AX-061215-04-8.jpg
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19:09<Zuu:#openttd>el_en: Eh, that is on wikipedia, not wiki.openttd.org
19:10<Zuu:#openttd>You could try to see if any of the aircraft sets include that aircraft.
19:12<Sacro:#openttd>http://www.massmurder.com/
19:14<goodger:#openttd>HA
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19:20<jerker:#openttd>hi folks. Another junction (compact, branch-before-merge use of path signals); <http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Braided_Junction>. good enough to add to the {{junctionsmenu}} ?
19:23<Aali:#openttd>in my opinion, it's pretty bad
19:23<Aali:#openttd>so it should fit right in with the other junctions on the wiki :)
19:23<jerker:#openttd>gah!
19:23<jerker:#openttd>:-)
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19:24<jerker:#openttd>what kind of junctions do you like then?
19:24<jerker:#openttd>this one is optimized for compactness
19:26<jerker:#openttd>i am almost thinking of rating all junction regards to speed and space utilization and perhaps cost..
19:26<jerker:#openttd>and of course penalizing those that may cause deadlocks
19:28<roboboy:#openttd>that bridge in the mainline would also be a problem as you could only have one train on it
19:29<roboboy:#openttd>similar thing with the tunnel except it is not on the mainline
19:29<jerker:#openttd>you mean the distance between the trains?
19:31<jerker:#openttd>the path based signaling should allow trains going south>>east at the same time as east>>north
19:32<jerker:#openttd>and north>>east same time as east>>south
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19:33<Aali:#openttd>yes but two trains on the mainline will be spaced out by 7 tiles after that junction
19:33<Aali:#openttd>thats a pretty bad signal gap
19:35<Zuu:#openttd>Aali: Depends on if you use 7 as signal gap all over or not :-)
19:35<Aali:#openttd>the picture shows a signal distance of 2 tiles
19:36<Zuu:#openttd>Using someting like 5-6 makes it possible to use bridges etc. more freely than with 2 tiles. - Have not viewed the screenshot though.
19:36<Aali:#openttd>oh and since its "missing" a signal that actually makes the signal distance 8 for that mainline
19:38<jerker:#openttd>the missing signal may be ignored. :)
19:38<jerker:#openttd>signal distance is a good metric. have to add it to rating junctions.
19:38<Aali:#openttd>the only thing PBS does in this junction is allowing a train to exit the mainline while another merges, under the bridge, the other PBS signals are perfect examples of bad PBS, where PBS doesn't really gain you anything
19:39<jerker:#openttd>Aali: why is it so?
19:39<Aali:#openttd>look at the other PBS segments, can two trains really reserve two separate paths through those segments?
19:39<jerker:#openttd>i mean, the point is to allow trains at the same time to merge while another branches
19:39<Aali:#openttd>no, because there's only one exit/entrance
19:40<jerker:#openttd>Aali: yes, at both PBS ther are two exits and two entrances
19:40<jerker:#openttd>PBS-blocks
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19:41<jerker:#openttd>thats the point they are there, otherwise the junction could use two more tiles and blocked based signaling
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19:41<Aali:#openttd>which would have been better
19:41<Aali:#openttd>then you would only have a 5 tile signal gap
19:42<jerker:#openttd>you are sacrificing compactness on the altar of speed.
19:42<jerker:#openttd>could be good for an alternative variant.
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19:45<jerker:#openttd>Aali: thank you for the comments. Is "tiles" the correct unit for distance?
19:46<jerker:#openttd>(and thanks to roboboy and zuu too)
19:46<Zuu:#openttd>jerker: You're welcome :-)
19:47<Aali:#openttd>tiles is pretty much the only useful unit for distance
19:48<Zuu:#openttd>In vanilia OpenTTD trainset, you can count in wagons too. But with many other trainsets the wagons are not always a half tile long.
19:48<Zuu:#openttd>But the depot window count in wagon-length normalized to vanilia wagon-length.
19:49<Aali:#openttd>yeah, depots count in half-tiles, which is pretty much useless since all you really care about is how many tiles your train will occupy
19:50<Zuu:#openttd>Have for long wondered why my AI sometimes print "Not all errors cleared" as an error message, but did never search my code for the string. Now I found instead of errers it should be orders :-D
19:50<Zuu:#openttd>errers -> errors
19:51<Zuu:#openttd>Aali: With realistic acceleration it could be usefull to have a train with odd wagon length if you like to fine tune the brake down spacing at stations.
19:53<Zuu:#openttd>hmm, not "brake down", rather "slow down" is more propper English :)
19:53<Aali:#openttd>but if you want to do that much fine-tuning the number in the depot wont help you either (unless all wagons are exactly one half tile)
19:53<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: glx * r15147 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r15146): compile before commit
19:58-!-vraa [~vraa@h54.68.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd
19:59<Sacro:#openttd>Rubidium: you can't stop people recompiling and changing the server address!
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20:03<+glx:#openttd>Sacro: but they'll need the right protocol
20:04<Zuu:#openttd>And even if you can't make it impossible, you can not suppporting it.
20:08<Sacro:#openttd>Zuu: true
20:10<Sacro:#openttd>glx: the server side code is available too :D
20:10*Sacro:#openttd sets up his own masterserver
20:10<Sacro:#openttd>with blackjack
20:10<Sacro:#openttd>and hookers
20:10<+glx:#openttd>Sacro: but it requires compilation too :)
20:11<+glx:#openttd>what fabca demanded was to be able to use a simple http server without compilation
20:12<goodger:#openttd>in fact, forget the masterserver!
20:12<goodger:#openttd>and the blackjack!
20:15<Sacro:#openttd>actually, forget the whole damn thing
20:15<Sacro:#openttd>sigh, 8 hours 15 till exam
20:15<Sacro:#openttd>I haven't a clue about software design
20:15<Sacro:#openttd>i just code like an idiot
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20:17<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: Yexo * r15148 /trunk/src/ (49 files in 4 dirs): -Cleanup: Remove the options "competitor start time" and "competitor intelligence" from the difficulty options because they already were unused.
20:17<+glx:#openttd>\o/
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20:18<Zuu:#openttd>First Yexo commit? Or am I mistaken?
20:18<Yexo:#openttd>that's right :)
20:18<Zuu:#openttd>Congratulations :)
20:19<Sacro:#openttd>Yexo: congrats :D
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20:19<Yexo:#openttd>thanks Zuu, Sacro
20:25<Zuu:#openttd>Oh, I have not had time to browse the development forum, now that I have been coding on my PAXLink AI the entire weekend. :-)
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20:36<Zuu:#openttd>Night all
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20:36<SmatZ:#openttd>:-)
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20:41<Aali:#openttd>hmm, cargo truncation in cargodest should really remove "dead" cargo (no route found) first
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20:43<Aali:#openttd>now it does the opposite, it removes the newly generated cargo, the cargo you can actually transport somewhere
20:44<Aali:#openttd>and if the station never gets empty of "fresh" cargo, that dead cargo will sit at the bottom of the cargolist forever
20:44<Aali:#openttd>time to write a patch :)
20:45<Yexo:#openttd>time to write a patch :) <- no, time to merge cargodest to trunk :)
20:45<Aali:#openttd>surely you mean sync cargodest with trunk
20:45<Yexo:#openttd>of course :p
20:45<Aali:#openttd>and I've already done that
20:46<Yexo:#openttd>get petern to commit that to the cargodest branch
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20:49<Aali:#openttd>ideally, someone with greater knowledge of the cargodest code (i.e. Celestar) should have a look at it
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20:52<Aali:#openttd>but hey, no better way to weed out the bugs than to push it through to the general public :P
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 19 00:00:16 2009